Should the Big Sky expand?

[Lumberjacks76]

I've been thinking about this for awhile now and I believe the Big Sky should expand to 10 teams from 8. The reason(s) for this include: increased revenue, better television exposure, a deeper conference (with possibly more conference games to play) and a higher profile for the entire conference as a whole.

If the Big Sky does expand, which two teams should they add? My vote goes for Cal Poly and UC Davis.

Paul

[Ronbo]

We're at 9 with UNC, 76. An odd number is perfect as you'll have 4 home, 4 away games each season. Now as far as most Montana fans, I believe most feel the Conference is as big as we want it to get. If more teams are added it costs us home games. We make $450K every home game, that's a big hit in revenue when we are forced to travel to a UNC for $0 rather than hosting an OOC opponent and making $450K. See what I mean, Vern? :)

[henfan]

IMO, understanding that the conference doesn't like affiliate membership, I think the Big Sky is making a huge mistake not going hard after UC-Davis as a football affiliate.

[FargoBison]

How about adding NDSU, SDSU, and UND and spilting the Big Sky up into two divisions.

East Division
NDSU
UND
MSU
UM
UNC
SDSU

West Division
EWU
ISU
WSU
NAU
Sac St
PSU

For football each team plays all its divisional teams once and three teams from the other division.

[eagle1]

henfan-the big sky has gone after UC Davis for all sports as well as football only but they do not want to join the sky. I don't know if they think that they are too good for the sky or what? Maybe some UC Davis fans out there can tell us why they snubbed the sky? I waiting patiently for their visit to EWU in November and we will show them some big sky hospitality by kicking their butts. Go Eagles!!!

[Ronbo]

henfan-the big sky has gone after UC Davis for all sports as well as football only but they do not want to join the sky. I don't know if they think that they are too good for the sky or what? Maybe some UC Davis fans out there can tell us why they snubbed the sky? I waiting patiently for their visit to EWU in November and we will show them some big sky hospitality by kicking their butts. Go Eagles!!!

They would be another also ran in the Big Sky. They would stuggle each year to just come out .500 in Conference play. They could fight it out for 4th place every year with PSU and NAU. :D

[Lumberjacks76]

I forgot about UNC being added earlier this year. Do they begin play next year in 2006? If so, I don't know if they'll be eligible for the Big Sky Conference Title (or even a Division I-AA playoff berth).

Can someone verify this?

Paul

[NDSU_grad]

UNC be will playoff eligible in 2007.

[Lumberjacks76]

So they are a provisional Division I-AA football program as of now? This makes sense. They just recently stopped playing Division II football and were required to have 63 scholarship athletes by 2007.

Paul

[biobengal]

Fargo Bison, you will NEVER see that kind of split.

First, try getting ISU, EWU, NAU, and Weber to stop playing Montana State and Montana. Second, ISU has played MSU more than any other school, ISU admins will not give up their two biggest draws because of expansion plans. Third, I can't stand the thought of a super conference. You can win the conference without playing the toughest teams. BTW, you will never see a title game. The best chance of NDSU and SDSU in the BSC is with the loss of Sac, then the BSC could move to 10.

Eastern Washington Portland State
Idaho State Weber State
Montana State Montana
Northern Colorado Northern Arizona
North Dakota State South Dakota State

[ucdtim17]

henfan-the big sky has gone after UC Davis for all sports as well as football only but they do not want to join the sky. I don't know if they think that they are too good for the sky or what? Maybe some UC Davis fans out there can tell us why they snubbed the sky? I waiting patiently for their visit to EWU in November and we will show them some big sky hospitality by kicking their butts. Go Eagles!!!


The invite from the Big West was a major reason we went D1. The BW is a better conference up and down than the Big Sky with more similar universities (UCSB, UCI, UCR, CP). The Big Sky does have football, which would be nice, especially if this GWFC thing falls through and we're an independent again. But for now, we're not going anywhere.

[IaaScribe]

The Big Sky is not interested in expanding to the Dakotas. It's not a good fit. You've got a bunch of universities that are for the most part financially strapped, and they're not going to want to add trips to the Dakotas in all sports.

Southern Utah has tried to get in several times, and they've met a roadblock each time. I believe one of the Montanas was against SUU this last time. In the past, it's been Weber that has been against it.

Davis is happy in the Big West because travel is a lot less severe in the sports other than football. Davis fits a lot better with UoP, Cal Poly, etc., than with schools like NAU and Weber.

I think the Big Sky is done expanding for now. UNC was a logical fit, the Dakotas are not. Unless there's a groundswell of support for SUU, I think the Sky stays at nine.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

henfan-the big sky has gone after UC Davis for all sports as well as football only but they do not want to join the sky. I don't know if they think that they are too good for the sky or what? Maybe some UC Davis fans out there can tell us why they snubbed the sky? I waiting patiently for their visit to EWU in November and we will show them some big sky hospitality by kicking their butts. Go Eagles!!!

Why on earth would UC Davis even consider the Big Sky for even a second? They have the luxary of having the Big West in existance and the Big West wanted them while they were D2. Why join a league where you are spending SO MUCH more for travel when you can be in a solid league like the Big West and play all California state schools.

[henfan]

I'm aware that the Big Sky would like to have Davis as a full member but that wasn't my suggestion. As Quinn and others have indicated, there's no incentive for UCD to join a weaker, more geographically diverse conference for Olympic sports so long as they hold membership in the Big West.

What I question is why the Sky doesn't bite the bullet and go after UCD as a FB affiliate. I don't think that was ever put on the table by the BSC, as I understand it... or am I wrong?

[FargoBison]

The Big Sky is not interested in expanding to the Dakotas. It's not a good fit. You've got a bunch of universities that are for the most part financially strapped, and they're not going to want to add trips to the Dakotas in all sports.



I know that. Sac State and PSU made it pretty clear last time expansion talks happend that going to the Dakota's was too expensive and that they wanted no part in it. That is why I agree with biobengal that the only way the Big Sky will ever expand into the Dakota's is if Sac State moves on to the WAC or Big West. I believe both NDSU and SDSU had a majority of votes last time expansion talks happend with only two schools saying no. So I wouldn't say that there isn't any interest in expansion because there definatly is some.

[OrneryAggie]

henfan-the big sky has gone after UC Davis for all sports as well as football only but they do not want to join the sky. I don't know if they think that they are too good for the sky or what? Maybe some UC Davis fans out there can tell us why they snubbed the sky? I waiting patiently for their visit to EWU in November and we will show them some big sky hospitality by kicking their butts. Go Eagles!!!

I think you are right, the higher ups and alumni probably think UCD is too good for the Sky. I'm not saying the quality of education is bad at big sky schools but the academic elite on campus want to associate with the Stanford's and Cal's of the world more than the Suc St's and PSU's. Joining a conf with academic powers Santa Barbara, Irvine, and Cal Poly was the only way to convince the admin to approve the move to DI. It'd be nice to play UM, MSU, and EWU regularly in football but the fan support for all other sports would be dismal. Non-revenue sports like soccer and softball need the name recognition and geographic proximity of other cali schools to bring out the fans. Additionally the Sky doesn't sponsor baseball, softball, or men's soccer all of which had had recent success in DII.

As for EWU kicking the Ags butt in nov you better enjoy it while you can. It won't be too long before EWU is back to middle of the pack and UCD is back to consistently top 10.

[putter]

I agree about Sac and PSU but for most schools getting to NDSU would be not more difficult than getting to Northern Arizona. (Fly into Phoenix and bus 2 hours to Flagstaff)

[IaaScribe]

I know for a fact that most of the people at Northern Arizona were against the Dakotas, too. It's a good fit for the Montanas. But the travel from NAU is already hellacious. Shortest trip is a six-hour jaunt to Sacramento. It's usually a 10-hour trip to ISU and the Montana schools. Seven hours to Portland and Weber and Spokane. I don't think they were very excited about the possibility of adding winter trips to Fargo to the schedule.

Honestly, wouldn't the Dakota schools fit in the Gateway/Missouri Valley better, anyway?

[WhereDoITypeMyUsername?]

I think we should add Sam Houston and Northwestern State. Hell, they're playin' up here all the time, anyways...

[grizbeer]

The Dakota's are a pretty good fit for 6 of the 9 conference members. The best explanation I heard was that if the Dakotas were added Sac State and PSU would leave the conference, and since the Dakota schools are not eligible for post-season play the conference would not retain it's auto bid status if Sac and PSU left.

I don't know if this is true or not, but if it is I wouldn't be surprised to see an offer extended to NDSU and SDSU when they become eligible for post-season (if they are still interested).

[Lumberjacks76]

Northern Colorado is a great addition to the BSC. I'm not aware of how good they are academically, but in football they've been fairly consistent. They will make a nice Big Sky Conference opponent.

Paul

[eagle1]

OrneryAggie-This is DI-AA not D2. You and NDSU automatically think that because you won a few games at the D2 level that you are going to do the same thing at this level. How many times have you guys made it to the DI-AA playoffs? ZERO, that's what I thought. Have fun in that powerful Big West Conference. Go Eagles!!!

[biobengal]

Soon the bubble will burst on the Big West............ The fickle people of California will begin to ask the question, why are we in a bus league with the likes of California State University @ INSERT NAME HERE, California State University @ INSERT NAME HERE, California State University @ INSERT NAME HERE, California State University @ INSERT NAME HERE, California State University @ INSERT NAME HERE, and last but not least, California State University @ INSERT NAME HERE.

[SochorField]

OrneryAggie-This is DI-AA not D2. You and NDSU automatically think that because you won a few games at the D2 level that you are going to do the same thing at this level. How many times have you guys made it to the DI-AA playoffs? ZERO, that's what I thought. Have fun in that powerful Big West Conference. Go Eagles!!!


I am aware that i am not ornery aggie, but i must chime in here (as i have great respect for my fellow aggie)........wow, ewu guy...relax. NDSU and UC Davis have both won more than a few games at the D2 AND DIAA levels. By the way, NDSU and UC Davis arent ELIGIBLE for the IAA playoffs, both teams are transitional.

[OrneryAggie]

OrneryAggie-This is DI-AA not D2. You and NDSU automatically think that because you won a few games at the D2 level that you are going to do the same thing at this level. How many times have you guys made it to the DI-AA playoffs? ZERO, that's what I thought. Have fun in that powerful Big West Conference. Go Eagles!!!

You're right, the Ags have no playoff appearances. In fact I can garauntee you they won't have any for 2 more years. Obviously your team making the playoffs for the first time in 7 years gives you the authority to predict eternal doom for storied DII programs like NDSU and UCD.

I know the comparitive scores system is hogwash but play along with me and tell me which team looks more respectable this century. Let's pretend there were 2 programs, let's call them the Weagles and the Daggies. Let's also pretend these 2 teams had a common opponent the past 5 seasons. I'll call this team the Suckers. Let's also pretend the Daggies went 5-0 vs the Suckers with an avg margin of victory of 20.4pts even though they were DII for the first 3 meetings. Let's also pretend the Weagles went 3-2 with an avg point spread of just under 14pts. This past season both teams beat the Suckers by 35pts on their home fields. But the Weagles did what the Daggies could not, advance to IAA postseason. Because of this glaring disparity the Weagles are free to assume that transitionary schools like UCD or NDSU could not possibly achieve the same success in IAA that was seen in DII.

Hopefully the EWU players are not of the same mindset as you becuase they could be in for a Nicholls St type awakening in November if they overlook the Ags.

[GOKATS]

The Dakota's are a pretty good fit for 6 of the 9 conference members. The best explanation I heard was that if the Dakotas were added Sac State and PSU would leave the conference, and since the Dakota schools are not eligible for post-season play the conference would not retain it's auto bid status if Sac and PSU left.

I don't know if this is true or not, but if it is I wouldn't be surprised to see an offer extended to NDSU and SDSU when they become eligible for post-season (if they are still interested).

It is certainly not my nature to agree with a Griz, but I think you're pretty close to the facts on this one. ;)

[eagle1]

UC Davis was a successful D2 team but those days are behind you and you must prove yourself before you boast about your past. I like the analogy though but your right it is hogwash. Bring your parkas and mittens in November to Cheney because you will need them. Go Eagles!!!

[JBB]

UNC was a good addition. I hope NDSU keeps a lot of BSC teams on its schedules in all sports.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Story in Davis paper said Big Sky had set its tentative conference schedules through 2018. That doesn't spell expansion to me. :deadhorse

[bisonguy]

Story in Davis paper said Big Sky had set its tentative conference schedules through 2018. That doesn't spell expansion to me. :deadhorse

ten·ta·tive P Pronunciation Key (tnt-tv)
adj.
Not fully worked out, concluded, or agreed on; provisional: tentative plans.
Uncertain; hesitant.


Obviously, it didn't spell out much.

[Gil Dobie]

Hopefully the EWU players are not of the same mindset as you becuase they could be in for a Nicholls St type awakening in November if they overlook the Ags.

OrneryAggie,

Is that the same Nicholls St team lowly former DII, NDSU beat a few weeks later down in Thibodaux?

The Great West is a good conference for the Dakota's. The Big Sky may never make an offer, so the Dakota's need to move forward. See what the future brings.

[Green Cookie Monster]

ten·ta·tive P Pronunciation Key (tnt-tv)
adj.
Not fully worked out, concluded, or agreed on; provisional: tentative plans.
Uncertain; hesitant.


Obviously, it didn't spell out much.

Yes, Mildred there is a Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy.

[WYOBISONMAN]

It just kills you Sac guys that more schools want NDSU in the Sky than want Sac....when Sac no longer has the "auto bid gun" to the head of the Big Sky, the rest of the conference may decide that NDSU has a hell of a lot more sex appeal than the doormat Sac..... :eek:

[Lumberjacks76]

The only problem is that teams like Weber and NAU have been opposed to NDSU joining the Big Sky due to travel logistics. It's a long way from NAU and Weber State to North Dakota.

Paul

[eagle1]

Yes, Gil Dobie that is the same team that got beat by NDSU but I also remember NDSU losing to Cal Poly whom EWU destroyed and new Big Sky UNC last year. Before you go off telling me that you should of won both of those games....don't you agree that every team has a bad Saturday or two. One game doesn't make a season. I think we rebounded and did fine making the playoffs and knocking off #1 S. Illinois on the road. Good luck playing the Salukis on the road this fall....at least they don't have Brandon Jacobs anymore. Go Eagles!!!

[WYOBISONMAN]

America West is adding non-stop service to Fargo from Phoenix......to me that makes the NAU logistics pretty easy........

[Green Cookie Monster]

It just kills you Sac guys that more schools want NDSU in the Sky than want Sac....when Sac no longer has the "auto bid gun" to the head of the Big Sky, the rest of the conference may decide that NDSU has a hell of a lot more sex appeal than the doormat Sac..... :eek:

If getting a Sky invitation will make your life complete. Then by all means I really hope it happens. This appears to be your life's mission.

These conspiracy theories are a chuckle, you people have nothing better to do than still discuss this. "just wait until....".

Bottomline: Sac is the Sky, whoever voted us in in '96, unanimous voting right, liked what they saw. They didn't like what the bison offered, case closed, officially.

Do you need Mary Magdaline to appear and finally tell you NO?

[Green Cookie Monster]

America West is adding non-stop service to Fargo from Phoenix......to me that makes the NAU logistics pretty easy........

OK, you solved the problem. Let them in. But wait, they don't want them.
Hello McFly. McFly you in there?

[WYOBISONMAN]

If getting a Sky invitation will make your life complete. Then by all means I really hope it happens. This appears to be your life's mission.

These conspiracy theories are a chuckle, you people have nothing better to do than still discuss this. "just wait until....".

Bottomline: Sac is the Sky, whoever voted us in in '96, unanimous voting right, liked what they saw. They didn't like what the bison offered, case closed, officially.

Do you need Mary Magdaline to appear and finally tell you NO?


No need for Mary to appear.....I am from North Dakota so I am Lutheran.... ;) (read....Lake Wobegon)

[Gil Dobie]

Yes, Gil Dobie that is the same team that got beat by NDSU but I also remember NDSU losing to Cal Poly whom EWU destroyed and new Big Sky UNC last year. Before you go off telling me that you should of won both of those games....don't you agree that every team has a bad Saturday or two. One game doesn't make a season. I think we rebounded and did fine making the playoffs and knocking off #1 S. Illinois on the road. Good luck playing the Salukis on the road this fall....at least they don't have Brandon Jacobs anymore. Go Eagles!!!

Northwestern St was another quality win for the Bison, the same Northwestern St that be Sam Houston St. I am not saying anything bad about EWU. I vote them high in the AGS Poll each week and have a lot of repect for them. Just wish some of it was mutual.

[eagle1]

Gil Dobie - Time and time again I have heard from Bison fans and now Aggie fans that they are going to tear up I-AA like they did in D2. To me, that is a lack of respect for all of those currently in I-AA. It is true that you beat Montana as a D2 team but that win alone doesn't mean that you are going to own I-AA. Respect is something that is earned and only time will tell your fate. I have great respect for you and UC Davis as a D2 team but that is in the past whether you like it or not. If you go to the first reponse in this thread by OrenryAggie you can see why I am pissed off. To say that after this year EWU will return to the middle of the pack while the Aggies continue to be in the top 10 is rediculus. Go Eagles!!!

[OrneryAggie]

Gil Dobie - Time and time again I have heard from Bison fans and now Aggie fans that they are going to tear up I-AA like they did in D2. To me, that is a lack of respect for all of those currently in I-AA. It is true that you beat Montana as a D2 team but that win alone doesn't mean that you are going to own I-AA. Respect is something that is earned and only time will tell your fate. I have great respect for you and UC Davis as a D2 team but that is in the past whether you like it or not. If you go to the first reponse in this thread by OrenryAggie you can see why I am pissed off. To say that after this year EWU will return to the middle of the pack while the Aggies continue to be in the top 10 is rediculus. Go Eagles!!!


They don't call me ornery for nothing.

My disrespectful comment was a response to your butt kicking offer and lack of respect for my alma mader. I agree with you that respect has to be earned. But give EWU an 8-3 regular season and suddenly the team that had been in the bottom half of the Big Sky for the 3 previous seasons is free to romp on the rookies? I don't think so. NDSU also finished the regular season 8-3, just 8 pts away from undefeated. If that's not a respectable first year in IAA then I wanna know what kind of crack you all smoke up there.

It's not just Bison and Aggie fans who think they're ready for IAA, check out Sagarin and Massey. I think EWU has a great team this year and you should handily beat the ags. But I think your dismissal of both IAA newbies is a little premature.

[eagle1]

Ornery you are indeed ornery. I am finished trying to prove my point. :deadhorse

At least you agree that you will get your butts kicked in November. :nod:
Go Eagles!!!

[bisonguy]

Yes, Mildred there is a Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy.

Many conferences tentatively schedule out 10-15 years in advance, due to not having the "proper" number of teams for teams for either football or olympic sports. :rolleyes:

Way to back up a statement with facts.

[JALMOND]

I have voiced my opinion many times on this since this spring when the Dakotas were trying to get in to the Big Sky. Let me rephrase before I get the "evil school" label again. Yes, its true that expansion takes a unanimous vote from all members (that is what is written). However, the history of sports in the Big Sky has always been determined by Montana, Montana State, Idaho State and Weber. If there was strong support from these four schools for letting the Dakotas in, then the conference would have got it done. There would have been a lot of "wrangling" and a lot of closed door meetings, but it would have been done. If the existing members want to act like babies on the subject, I'm sure the conference would let Portland and Sacramento leave before they let the Cats and Griz leave. Bottom line, PSU really does NOT have as much pull on expansion as the Cats and Griz. We can voice our opinion on the subject and we do get a vote, but the four schools with really all the say in the conference are the Griz, Cats, Bengals and Wildcats.

[Ronbo]

Must have been the Cats then, they looked at the Dakota Schools as superior programs to theirs and would have pushed them down the standings even more. :D

[dbackjon]

Must have been the Cats then, they looked at the Dakota Schools as superior programs to theirs and would have pushed them down the standings even more. :D

Or the Griz still mad at losing to NDSU at home....

[polsongrizz]

Or the Griz still mad at losing to NDSU at home....
If you are not mad you are not a fan... :D

[Hansel]

Webers Prez was on record in favor of the Dakotas

[MSUCats]

Must have been the Cats then, they looked at the Dakota Schools as superior programs to theirs and would have pushed them down the standings even more. :D


That's funny :D

Beat one last year and we'll take care of the other this year. :p

Good luck against South D.