Was App State's Win a Fluke?

[FCSFAN]

Answer whether you think Appalachian State's win at Michigan was a fluke or not. Meaning do you think Michigan was the better team, let down, misplayed, overlooked, or in some other way gave App St the chance to win?

[lambertjr]

Michigan was outplayed. Pure and simple.

[ngineer]

ASU was the better team that day, no question. Therefore, not a fluke. However, if the same teams were to play each other 10 times for 10 weeks, I believe Michigan would win the majority of the them.

[skinny_uncle]

I think Appy State's quickness surprised them. The Mountaineers made the plays to win during crunch time. They made the field goal they needed. Michigan did not. Game over.

[grizband]

ASU was the better team that day, no question. Therefore, not a fluke. However, if the same teams were to play each other 10 times for 10 weeks, I believe Michigan would win the majority of the them.
This is my exact sentiment.

[RobsPics]

ASU was the better team throughout the entire game, and the score proves it.

Both sides made equal mistakes that evens out the game.

A 34-32 game cannot be a "fluke".

[RobsPics]

2 blocked field goals , 2 big mistakes.

So?

APPY had their big mistake when the receiver dropped a clear TD pass for 6 points. So that evens out the UM blocked kicks "mistake".

[AppStateSVX]

2 INTs by Armanti at critical times, this game was no fluke

[FCSFAN]

I wonder how many of these people voting Michigan as the better team actually saw the game? xsmhx

[SU Jag]

No. Appy just layed the smack down!

[jonmac]

Why are blocked field goals a mistake on the part of the kicking team and not well executed plays by the blocking team? Isn't that the job of that special team, to block the field goal? Is it always a mistake on the part of the offense when a rb is stopped at the line of scrimmage? And anyway, mistakes are part of the game and should not be used to determine a fluke. This game was not a fluke.

[Cleets]

I love the "Slow Big 10" stuff bouncing around...

but regarding the game:
On that day if Michigan won based on what I saw, that would have been a fluke... The best team on that day won...

(as noted above) you just don't get to play teams ten times, so you might want to "be prepared" this ain't 162 game baseball schedule...

GO APP..!!! xbowx

[Mountaineer]

Nice.... xlolx xlolx

xwhistlex xwhistlex

[JohnStOnge]

I voted "No" to it as being a fluke but I don't think App is the better team. I think if you had a two out of three, three out of five, four out of seven, etc., Michigan would win any such series.

I think that App State pointed to the game a whole lot more than Michigan did and took it's opponent a whole lot more seriously. I think that if a game between the two was going to be played in two weeks Michigan would approach it with an entirely different attitude. Plus they'd look at game films, make adjusments, learn...and in any rematch their superior overall talent would probably take over.

It's pretty obvious, if you think about it, that the better team does not always win in football. I'm very happy about App State's win. I do think mainstream fans underestimate how good a top level FCS is.

But don't get carried away. It wasn't a "fluke" on that day. App State was ready to play and executed. But Michigan has a better football team.

[catbob]

I wonder how many of these people voting Michigan as the better team actually saw the game? xsmhx

Cuz I'm guessing App prepared at least 20 times more for the game than Michigan did. I would venture to say that Michigan probably didn't even watch any film from ASU. I know Colorado didn't.

ASU was the better team that day, but if UM prepares and has the mindset for this game like it was Ohio State...

[JohnStOnge]

but regarding the game:
On that day if Michigan won based on what I saw, that would have been a fluke...

I don't think so. Michigan had more first downs (23 to 19), more rushing yards (246 to 160), and slightly more passing yards (233 to 227). The Wolverines averaged 6.2 yards per carry running the ball (App averaged 3.6) and outgained the Mountaineers in total yards 479 to 387.

What App State did and how well it played was amazing. But I think saying it would have been a "fluke" if Michigan had won is kind of stretching it. And, actually...how often do you see two consecutive field goal attempts blocked?

On one hand, a team that's successful in blocking two consecutive field goals deserves a lot of credit for it. On the other hand, if you're counting on being successful in blocking two consecutive field goals to win...you're not playing the odds.

[FCSFAN]

I voted "No" to it as being a fluke but I don't think App is the better team. I think if you had a two out of three, three out of five, four out of seven, etc., Michigan would win any such series.

I think that App State pointed to the game a whole lot more than Michigan did and took it's opponent a whole lot more seriously. I think that if a game between the two was going to be played in two weeks Michigan would approach it with an entirely different attitude. Plus they'd look at game films, make adjusments, learn...and in any rematch their superior overall talent would probably take over.

It's pretty obvious, if you think about it, that the better team does not always win in football. I'm very happy about App State's win. I do think mainstream fans underestimate how good a top level FCS is.

But don't get carried away. It wasn't a "fluke" on that day. App State was ready to play and executed. But Michigan has a better football team.Exactly why I posted this poll, to expose those who think that App State beating a ranked FBS is nothing more than a fluke. Thanks JSO for proving my point.

"if you had a two out of three, three out of five, four out of seven, etc., Michigan would win any such series" - when's the last time's that has happened?

"App State pointed to the game a whole lot more than Michigan did and took it's opponent a whole lot more seriously" - that's part of the game, preparation. If the opponent doesn't have it then don't use it as an excuse.

"if a game between the two was going to be played in two weeks" - when's the last time's that has happened? (outside of the playoffs)

"Michigan has a better football team" - App St has a better team and proved it. xcoffeex

[JohnStOnge]

Michigan was outplayed. Pure and simple.

The way I'd put it is that App State played well enough to have a chance to win and it worked out. That's saying a lot. But it wasn't like App State completely controlled things. Michigan got 479 yards of offense and averaged 6.2 yards per rush.

[JohnStOnge]

- App St has a better team and proved it. xcoffeex

Only if you believe that the better team always wins in college football. Do you believe that?

[JohnStOnge]

Exactly why I posted this poll, to expose those who think that App State beating a ranked FBS is nothing more than a fluke. Thanks JSO for proving my point.

I specifically said that I voted that it was not a fluke. There's a difference between saying it was a fluke and saying that the better team did not win.

[james_lawfirm]

I wonder how many of these people voting Michigan as the better team actually saw the game? xsmhx


FCSFAN:

Few of them.

ASU did pretty much what they wanted to in the first half. By the second half, even though we were just running on fumes, we had built a pretty good lead. And, in the end, when it really counted, ASU found something inside to pull it out.

Speed kills.

[poharry]

ANY GIVEN SATURDAY, FLUKE OR NOT!!!!!

[james_lawfirm]

I like what Lou Holtz, on ESPN as a color commentator, said. He said "this game was NOT an upset. The better team won."

I have always liked Lou Holtz.

[FCSFAN]

I specifically said that I voted that it was not a fluke. There's a difference between saying it was a fluke and saying that the better team did not win.hard to see/believe that among all your points to the contrary

[JohnStOnge]

This thing where people say that one team beating another in one game proves that it's a better team always gets me. I've been in many discussions about it.

So, do you guys think that 7-6 UCLA...which lost to 7-6 Florida State by 44-27 in its bowl game... had a better team than 11-2 USC in 2006 because UCLA won the game between the two?

Get real people. I'm completely with you if you say App State has the best team in FCS. But they don't have as good a football team as Michigan does. It was an upset. Not a fluke...but an upset.

The idea that one team beating another in one game "proves" that the winner has a better football team is absolute nonsense. Especially in a case where the loser had more first downs, had more total yards, and averaged 6.2 yards per rush.

[FCSFAN]

by the way JSO, I understand that the best team does not always win (people call that a fluke) but I've watched this game at least five times and the best team won every single time.

[FCSFAN]

This thing where people say that one team beating another in one game proves that it's a better team always gets me. I've been in many discussions about it.

So, do you guys think that 7-6 UCLA...which lost to 7-6 Florida State by 44-27 in its bowl game... had a better team than 11-2 USC in 2006 because UCLA won the game between the two?

Get real people. I'm completely with you if you say App State has the best team in FCS. But they don't have as good a football team as Michigan does. It was an upset. Not a fluke...but an upset.

The idea that one team beating another in one game "proves" that the winner has a better football team is absolute nonsense. Especially in a case where the loser had more first downs, had more total yards, and averaged 6.2 yards per rush.It's starting to sound personal with you, like you are offended that people may actually believe App St is better then Mich. By the way, yardage/first downs only goes so far and has a lot to do with field position and long runs. xpeacex

[feb18blacksunday]

No fluke. App scored in first half at will.

[JohnStOnge]

hard to see/believe that among all your points to the contrary

Not really, because there are MANY instances in football in which the better ream does not win. The better team losing does not mean there was a fluke. It happens all the time.

[Golden Eagle]

Nobody can deny that if they played the game ten times, Michigan would win maybe eight or nine of them. But I don't think that qualifies as a "fluke" as App is obviously very talented themselves. App played near-perfect, Michigan played fairly poorly, and with a good deal of luck, App prevailed.

[igo4uni]

no fluke.

[FCSFAN]

Nobody can deny that if they played the game ten times, Michigan would win maybe eight or nine of them. But I don't think that qualifies as a "fluke" as App is obviously very talented themselves. App played near-perfect, Michigan played fairly poorly, and with a good deal of luck, App prevailed.xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx What luck???? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx (or did you not see the game)

[Peems]

I don't think it was a fluke, but I have a question: Does anyone know why Mike Hart didn't play the entire game. He killed App. St, maybe Coach Carr was resting him xlolx.

[proasu89]

Nobody can deny that if they played the game ten times, Michigan would win maybe eight or nine of them. But I don't think that qualifies as a "fluke" as App is obviously very talented themselves. App played near-perfect, Michigan played fairly poorly, and with a good deal of luck, App prevailed.

I don't believe so.....3 turnovers, dropped TD pass, and a missed field goal equals far from near-perfect. ;)

[FCSFAN]

I don't think it was a fluke, but I have a question: Does anyone know why Mike Hart didn't play the entire game. He killed App. St, maybe Coach Carr was resting him xlolx.Injuries are part of the game. He was banged up.

[Golden Eagle]

I don't believe so.....3 turnovers, dropped TD pass, and a missed field goal equals far from near-perfect. ;)

Heh. Hence the qualifier "near-".

[Peems]

Also I was just reading Pat Forde's article about the game and this was at the end of it.

"...Just in case, I called Florida athletic director Jeremy Foley, who was grilling steaks after his Gators grilled Western Kentucky. He said his team will honor the contract. The Gators will do more than honor the contract. They'll respect Appalachian State, as well. The Mounties have earned that much."

looks like those contracts will be honored. Imagine the match-up, Armanti vs. Tebow!!!

[walliver]

Also I was just reading Pat Forde's article about the game and this was at the end of it.

"...Just in case, I called Florida athletic director Jeremy Foley, who was grilling steaks after his Gators grilled Western Kentucky. He said his team will honor the contract. The Gators will do more than honor the contract. They'll respect Appalachian State, as well. The Mounties have earned that much."

looks like those contracts will be honored. Imagine the match-up, Armanti vs. Tebow!!!

But, Florida will come prepared for the fight!

Besides, App State will lose a game in two weeks>xnodx

[FCSFAN]

Heh. Hence the qualifier "near-".then Michigan was "near-perfect" too, almost identical. Compare it. Holy moley some of you are really out there trying all the same old excuses.

textbook excuses:
"Michigan played fairly poorly" not: App St was the cause of it
"with a good deal of luck, App prevailed" not: App St skills were much better and they were the better team

[Tailbone]

App state's win might be considered a fluke if the final score was the result of events beyond Michigan's control. It wasn't and the win was no fluke.
It would seem that mighty Michigan (the winningest program in college football) overlooked the Mountaineers. Michigan assumed that the representatives of tier 2 football would come to Ann arbor, accept their beating,take their check and go home. They didn't expect,and were not prepared for App to give them a contest. Their mistake. they paid the price.

App state, on the other hand, took advantage of Michigan's arrogance (overconfidence) and lack of preparation. App prepared better, executed better, and was more focused. They beat Michigan with better play, not better luck. That's no fluke.

As for the poll, the correct answer wasn't an option.
App isn't the better team, but they played the better game.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

define "fluke".

[FCSFAN]

Answer whether you think Appalachian State's win at Michigan was a fluke or not. Meaning do you think Michigan was the better team, let down, misplayed, overlooked, or in some other way gave App St the chance to win?
App state's win might be considered a fluke if the final score was the result of events beyond Michigan's control. It wasn't and the win was no fluke.
It would seem that mighty Michigan (the winningest program in college football) overlooked the Mountaineers. Michigan assumed that the representatives of tier 2 football would come to Ann arbor, accept their beating,take their check and go home. They didn't expect,and were not prepared for App to give them a contest. Their mistake. they paid the price.

App state, on the other hand, took advantage of Michigan's arrogance (overconfidence) and lack of preparation. App prepared better, executed better, and was more focused. They beat Michigan with better play, not better luck. That's no fluke.

As for the poll, the correct answer wasn't an option.
App isn't the better team, but they played the better game.xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex Understood. You think it is a fluke. xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

[AZGrizFan]

I heard the perfect logic on the radio while the upset was in progress: Michigan didn't look past their opener, they just thought their opener was against Oregon! xlolx xlolx xlolx

[FCSFAN]

define "fluke".read the opening post

[AZGrizFan]

xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex Understood. You think it is a fluke. xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

Exactly, ralph. They overlooked them. That game, played 100 times, Michigan wins 90. xreadx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

read the opening post

Well, that doesn't tell me much. Obviously ASU was the better team today, and (I think) is still one of the best teams (if not the best) in the FCS.

I agree with others that we will have to wait and see how Michigan does this season. It could be that Michigan wasn't focused and was overconfident.

[FCSFAN]

Exactly, ralph. They overlooked them. That game, played 100 times, Michigan wins 90. xreadxUnderstood Norton, you think it is a fluke xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

[FCSFAN]

Well, that doesn't tell me much. Obviously ASU was the better team today, and (I think) is still one of the best teams (if not the best) in the FCS.

I agree with others that we will have to wait and see how Michigan does this season. It could be that Michigan wasn't focused and was overconfident.Understood, you think Michigan lost it instead of App St winning it (I think). It's okay, it's your opinion. Vote it in the poll. xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

[AZGrizFan]

Understood Norton, you think it is a fluke xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

Yes....clues would be the word "exactly" and the fact that I VOTED that way.... xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xrolleyesx

[FCSFAN]

Understood Nortonhttp://www.deeperwants.com/cul1/homeworlds/journal/archives/photos/carney.jpg

xlolx xlolx xlolx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Understood Norton, you think it is a fluke xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

If you want to put it blountly, I guess you could say that. You might not want to use the word "fluke" because it makes people sound like they are bitterly jealous (which I am jealous obviously, but not bitter - I think I'm one of the biggest FCS homers on here and I was very happy when I heard that ASU won. I think most AGS posters are happy that they won, too).

But like I said, it's just too early to tell. Last year, I wasn't ready to call Central Connecticut State's win over Georgia Southern a fluke last year right after the game. After watching the rest of GSU's and CCSU's season, I think it was clear that that game was not a fluke and that CCSU was the better team period.

[Casey_Orourke]

Exactly, ralph. They overlooked them. That game, played 100 times, Michigan wins 90. xreadx

xrulesx But it is only the first game that countsxnodx

[Grizalltheway]

Exactly why I posted this poll, to expose those who think that App State beating a ranked FBS is nothing more than a fluke. Thanks JSO for proving my point.

"if you had a two out of three, three out of five, four out of seven, etc., Michigan would win any such series" - when's the last time's that has happened?

"App State pointed to the game a whole lot more than Michigan did and took it's opponent a whole lot more seriously" - that's part of the game, preparation. If the opponent doesn't have it then don't use it as an excuse.

"if a game between the two was going to be played in two weeks" - when's the last time's that has happened? (outside of the playoffs)

"Michigan has a better football team" - App St has a better team and proved it. xcoffeex

The Mountaineers are headed for the Rose Bowl!!! xhypedx xhypedx xnonono2x xnonono2x

[AZGrizFan]

xrulesx But it is only the first game that countsxnodx


True, but that's basically the definition of a fluke. ASU has "scoreboard", as Jim Rome would say.... xthumbsupx

[CowboyUp]

Was Appy's upset win a fluke? I don't think so. I am not a person that believes in fate. It's simple, for that day, Appy was the better team. It is true if there was a rematch the results would be quite different, but this is Appy's day, and there is no one that can ever take that away from them. These things do happen. Just remember when then D-II North Dakota State came to Montana before 25,000 screaming fans at Grizzly field and stunned the number 3 ranked Montana Grizzlies 25-24. Montana blew a 24-3 halftime lead and was completely shut down in the second half. So as you can see, these things do happen from time to time.

[Skyhawk Nation 24]

This game was a fluke. The definition is a chance happening or accident. Everything happened that needed to for Appy St. to win. They prepared and came ready to play. Michigan apparently sat around all week wondering where the heck Appy St. was. Appy. St. was able to grab a lead and make the Wolverines come from behind. For some strange reason one of the best backs in the nation who never fumbles did not play the whole game and his back up fumbles. The Appy. St. blocks one field goal on poor blocking by Michigan. Now that can't happen again. Everyone will remember their inside out technique they have been taught since middle school. Well that wasn't the case. If you look at these and other things by definition this game was a fluke. Don't take anything away from Appy. St. they came ready to play and proved that any given saturday a team can win. But if they played again, Michigan would win by 14 or more. Mike Hart could run for 300 yards on them if Carr would let him.

The game is done and it doesn't matter if the game was a fluke or not. Michigan's season is basically over, and Appy. St. just won the biggest game in FCS history.

[SirApp]

This game was a fluke. The definition is a chance happening or accident. Everything happened that needed to for Appy St. to win. They prepared and came ready to play. Michigan apparently sat around all week wondering where the heck Appy St. was. Appy. St. was able to grab a lead and make the Wolverines come from behind. For some strange reason one of the best backs in the nation who never fumbles did not play the whole game and his back up fumbles. The Appy. St. blocks one field goal on poor blocking by Michigan. Now that can't happen again. Everyone will remember their inside out technique they have been taught since middle school. Well that wasn't the case. If you look at these and other things by definition this game was a fluke. Don't take anything away from Appy. St. they came ready to play and proved that any given saturday a team can win. But if they played again, Michigan would win by 14 or more. Mike Hart could run for 300 yards on them if Carr would let him.

The game is done and it doesn't matter if the game was a fluke or not. Michigan's season is basically over, and Appy. St. just won the biggest game in FCS history.

you have not watched this game. This is by far not a fluke. Out-coached, out-played, and out-executed. We beat them, plain and simple.

[Zoo]

Not a fluke, Michigan's defense was horrid, and it showed didn't it?

Appalachian State was the better team on Saturday, and the Wolverines were beat.

[Lionsrking]

I don't think it was a fluke on September 1st, 2007. Appalachian State was better prepared and consistently outplayed Michigan for the large majority of the game. They in fact were the better team on that day. But in the grand scheme of things, it probably was a fluke given Michigan would very likely win 8 or 9 out every 10 games played between the two. One usually only gets one shot to slay the giant and yesterday was it for the Mountaineers...and they had good aim!!!

[uofmman1122]

In my opinion, as people have been saying throughout this thread, the fact that 9/10 times UM would win this game constitutes a fluke. I'm not taking away from the sheer magnitude of the win. I flat out cheered at the Griz game Saturday when they announced the score. Bravo, and all that, indeed. They found a way to win, and it was awesome. However, I'm still going to say fluke. Now here's to next week, hoping they don't pull a Michigan themselves. xlolx

[OhioHen]

When Michigan ends the year 4-8 or 5-7, this will just be the first drop in a flood of "Michigan was overrated to start the year" conversations.

I would much rather see Michigan do well for the rest of the year and have this be the signature victory for FCS, but... xtwocentsx

[JohnStOnge]

In my opinion, as people have been saying throughout this thread, the fact that 9/10 times UM would win this game constitutes a fluke. I'm not taking away from the sheer magnitude of the win. I flat out cheered at the Griz game Saturday when they announced the score. Bravo, and all that, indeed. They found a way to win, and it was awesome. However, I'm still going to say fluke. Now here's to next week, hoping they don't pull a Michigan themselves. xlolx

Yeah. It depends on how one defines "fluke." To me, a 1 in 10 chance coming to fruition is not a fluke under circumstances where the underdog did play well enough to have a shot to win based on being able to move the ball and slow down the opponent then comes out on top. To me, a "fluke" would be something like having the favorite come out and commit 10 unforced fumbles; six of which are returned for TDs by the underdog defense.

[JohnStOnge]

I would much rather see Michigan do well for the rest of the year and have this be the signature victory for FCS,

Me too.

[TheCatamount]

It was a major fluke. That is why it is billed as the top upset of all time in CFB. Don't get me wrong, App State is a great team but they just ran into the perfect storm on Saturday.

[appfan2008]

asu was faster at every position... yes we were smaller and possibly not as skilled but we were prepared and ready unlike the team we played...

[JohnStOnge]

asu was faster at every position... yes we were smaller and possibly not as skilled but we were prepared and ready unlike the team we played...

No they weren't. I saw the highlights. Michigan's kicker was faster than App's safety. And I saw a number of highlights where Michigan skill people were clearly faster than people in App's secondary. I also focused on the defensive fronts some. Michigan's looked faster to me. You guys have every right to be excited, but you're getting carried away.

I will say that Edwards looked very fast and so did the guy who caught the pass then sprinted away from the defense. But "faster at every position?" Let's just say I'm skeptical. Only position at which the Mountaineers were inarguably faster is quarterback.

I hope I get a chance to see the whole game so I can focus on that question. But it sure didn't look like that watching the highlights since this "speed" think came up and trying to look at all the positions including things like defensive front.

One place I think Michigan is clearly faster is at running back. I didn't see Richardson in the highlights but I'm pretty confident he's not as fast as that guy Michigan has is.

[Gate84]

"Late" Michigan TD followed by an immediate INT. App St. holds and drives the field to kick field goal, over 30 + points? No fluke better team that day won the game.

[The Historian]

Fluke losses usually happen to good teams on the road, in bad weather and in low scoring games. None of these apply.

ASU matched up well with Michigan and had more speed and athleticism in the skill positions than most teams Michigan plays.

A key factor was the complacency of the Michigan coaching staff and players. They did not think ASU was a serious opponent and this was enhanced by Michigan driving down the field and scoring on its first possession of the game.

I do not think it was a fluke, but ASU would probably not win if they played again next Saturday. All that said, nothing will ever take away this remarkable win by ASU -- well done.

[Seawolf97]

App St was the better team that day. I think they would have a rough time in the Big Ten - playing those top level teams week in and week out.

[AZGrizFan]

No they weren't. I saw the highlights. Michigan's kicker was faster than App's safety.

That poor bastard is never gonna live that down!!

[JohnStOnge]

Here's a highlights clip of the game. Watch Michigan's second TD at about 46 seconds in.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Prlxc1qaaLY

Look how slow the safety and linebacker look.

Then there's that thing about the safety being run down by the kicker.

[HiHiYikas]

I saw the highlights. Michigan's kicker was faster than App's safety.
Corey Lynch mentioned on ESPN that his teammates had been ripping him for getting run down by the kicker.

Then again, I'm pretty sure I could catch a Corey Lynch with 4 quarters worth of exhaustion and cramping legs, especially if I'd been standing on the sideline all day.

You may be right about the general speed of Michigan's team, but the safety/kicker comparison doesn't really work given the circumstances.

[GtFllsGriz]

I don't think it was a fluke. I recorded and watched the whole game. The score should not have even been that close. App State did not play the perfect game. They botched at least two opportunities to score and had some costly turnovers. At better team should have beat them.

Will it be a fluke if they lose this weekend to a "lesser team"?

[JohnStOnge]

That poor bastard is never gonna live that down!!

Hey, he's a great safety. I'd love to have him play on the team I pull for. But speed is not his forte. You can see that in that other clip I put up too.

[JohnStOnge]

Corey Lynch mentioned on ESPN that his teammates had been ripping him for getting run down by the kicker.

Then again, I'm pretty sure I could catch a Corey Lynch with 4 quarters worth of exhaustion and cramping legs, especially if I'd been standing on the sideline all day.

You may be right about the general speed of Michigan's team, but the safety/kicker comparison doesn't really work given the circumstances.

As I said, Lynch is a great player. But look at that clip I put up of Michigan's second TD where #13 scores. That was early in the game. Lynch is not a fast safety. I can pretty much guarantee you that the "faster at every position" thing would break down as soon as you put him against the Wolverine playing the comparable position on the other side.

[Gil Dobie]

Nobody can deny that if they played the game ten times, Michigan would win maybe eight or nine of them. But I don't think that qualifies as a "fluke" as App is obviously very talented themselves. App played near-perfect, Michigan played fairly poorly, and with a good deal of luck, App prevailed.

I tend to disagree. Michigan does not match up well with App St. App St made several mistakes that let Michigan back into the game. If people think Michigan played poorly, maybe Michigan is not as good as those people expected. Michigan would be lucky to win 5 games in a 10 game series, and that's if the games were played home and home and not all in Michigan.

[AppGirl]

Hey, he's a great safety. I'd love to have him play on the team I pull for. But speed is not his forte. You can see that in that other clip I put up too.

You're the one who started comparing his speed to that a the kicker with fresh legs. I'm not saying that he would compare against Michigan's safety, speed wise, but don't give him a hard time about getting run down by the kicker at the very end of a very tiring game!

[twentythreeOh4]

I don't think there is any question that Michigan is the better team. UM is deeper and more talented through the entire roster. If they played again, Michigan would make the adjustments and baring a bunch of turnovers would no doubt win. If App played Michigan's schedule they would not do as good as Michigan will this year.

That said, it was no fluke. App St. outplayed Michigan. App St. answered every thing Michigan threw at them. Last Saturday App St. was the better team. As they say "On any given saturday..."

[texcap]

ASU matched up well with Michigan and had more speed and athleticism in the skill positions than most teams Michigan plays.

Exactly. Mike Hart (the GREAT MIchigan running back) was the first from UM to attend the post-game press conference and he almost the exact same thing. His response was something to the effect of. "They (App. State) were among the fastest team that I have ever played against."

[SoCon48]

The way I'd put it is that App State played well enough to have a chance to win and it worked out. That's saying a lot. But it wasn't like App State completely controlled things. Michigan got 479 yards of offense and averaged 6.2 yards per rush.

Did you happen to notice that App led most of the game?

[SoCon48]

That poor bastard is never gonna live that down!!

Umm he had cramps toward the end of the run as any player would having to play against an 85 scholarship team and with 3 defensive players out..

[DaveK]

There are two different ways to look at this...

1. Michigan has vastly superior talent on paper and played down to the level of their competition. They're the better team and would win this matchup 99 times out of 100.

2. App. State outplayed Michigan on Saturday and deserved to win the game. They were the better team on that day.

I believe both theories to be true.

[gokats85]

No fluke. Michigan was out-played AND out-coached. That's what you get when you overlook your opponent and worry about other games later in the season.xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

[Marcus Garvey]

I have to admit, I thought Fox Sports Net flashed an incorrect score during the 4th quarter. They had just given the Florida-WKU score as WKU 35 - WKU 3... so when I saw App St. up on Michigan, I assumed it was a mistake! LOL

No, the stats tell me that Michigan was outplayed. 2 turnovers for the Wolverines versus 3 for App. St. 2 blocked FG attempts cannot be accoutned as "flukes" either. I'd like to see some AP writers vote for App. St. Does anyone know if they're restricted to voting soley for I-A teams?

I don't think that overall, App St. is the better "team." Depending upon how the season goes, I might be conviced of that. The "better team" doesn't win every game. Rather the team that "plays better" wins. as was the case in Ann Arbor on Saturday. A lot of people get lost on that subtlety, but those are words I stand by.

[AZGrizFan]

I don't think that overall, App St. is the better "team." Depending upon how the season goes, I might be conviced of that. The "better team" doesn't win every game. Rather the team that "plays better" wins. as was the case in Ann Arbor on Saturday. A lot of people get lost on that subtlety, but those are words I stand by.

Well stated, Marcus. xthumbsupx

[Appstate29]

Well stated, Marcus. xthumbsupx

You might be right about the "better team", but I'll take the team that wins any day of the week over the "better team"

[JohnStOnge]

No, the stats tell me that Michigan was outplayed. 2 turnovers for the Wolverines versus 3 for App. St. 2 blocked FG attempts cannot be accoutned as "flukes" either.

I can understand somebody arguing that the stats don't tell the story but I don't see how you can look at the stats and say that Michigan was clearly "outplayed." Michigan had more first downs (23 to 19), more rushing yards (246 to 160), more passing yards (233 to 227), and (of course) more total yards (479 to 387). Michigan had a higher average gain per play (6.2 to 5.8). And a big one...one that I think shows control of the line of scrimmage...is that Michigan averaged 6.2 yards per rush to App State's 3.6. Even if you take away Hart's 54 yard TD run, the Wolverines averaged 4.9 per carry.

Another indication of winning the battle at the line of scrimmage: In spite of the fact that App State has a highly moblie QB, Michigan had four sacks to App's one.

Bottom line: Michigan moved the ball better than App did. Not that much better, but better.

Most of the time, when one looks at the stats, one can see an explanation for why the winner won. Frankly, this is one of those exceptions such that that's not the case. If you looked at those stats and didn't already know the score you'd think the team that ran the ball better, got more sacks, had substantially more total yards as well as rushing yards, averaged more yards per play, got more first downs, and won the giveaway/takeaway battle won.



I'd like to see some AP writers vote for App. St. Does anyone know if they're restricted to voting soley for I-A teams?

No. I read a Sports Illustrated blog about that. One guy wanted to vote for App State in the top 25 and found that he can't.

[GreatAppSt]

I can understand somebody arguing that the stats don't tell the story but I don't see how you can look at the stats and say that Michigan was clearly "outplayed." Michigan had more first downs (23 to 19), more rushing yards (246 to 160), more passing yards (233 to 227), and (of course) more total yards (479 to 387). Michigan had a higher average gain per play (6.2 to 5.8). And a big one...one that I think shows control of the line of scrimmage...is that Michigan averaged 6.2 yards per rush to App State's 3.6. Even if you take away Hart's 54 yard TD run, the Wolverines averaged 4.9 per carry.

Another indication of winning the battle at the line of scrimmage: In spite of the fact that App State has a highly moblie QB, Michigan had four sacks to App's one.

Bottom line: Michigan moved the ball better than App did. Not that much better, but better.

Most of the time, when one looks at the stats, one can see an explanation for why the winner won. Frankly, this is one of those exceptions such that that's not the case. If you looked at those stats and didn't already know the score you'd think the team that ran the ball better, got more sacks, had substantially more total yards as well as rushing yards, averaged more yards per play, got more first downs, and won the giveaway/takeaway battle won.




No. I read a Sports Illustrated blog about that. One guy wanted to vote for App State in the top 25 and found that he can't.

All I can say John is, find a cd, find somone who has it recorded, Stay up reall late to watch a replay but whatever you do, you need to watch the game! Until then you do not know the whole story.xnonox After you do see it come back and share some more insights. xthumbsupx

[Gil Dobie]

Couple of key stats from the game.

Time of Possession App St 31:12 Michigan 28:48

3rd-Down efficiency App St 7-13-54% Michigan 7-15-47%

[JohnStOnge]

All I can say John is, find a cd, find somone who has it recorded, Stay up reall late to watch a replay but whatever you do, you need to watch the game! Until then you do not know the whole story.xnonox After you do see it come back and share some more insights. xthumbsupx


I would like to do that, but right now I think what's happening is that FCS as well as App State fans are looking at things through FCS/App State glasses.

I mean, App State played well enough to win. That's self evident. But this thing of acting like they clearly outplayed Michigan in a physical sense when Michigan got almost 500 yards of offense, I think, is overdoing it. And it's not one of those things where one team has a HUGE lead and there are a bunch of meaningless yards. It was a close game.

Here's another one: Michigan's top back got 188 yards and averaged over 8 yards per carry. It's pretty obvious that App State's defense wasn't exactly stifling the Michigan offense. Yes, they played well enough to be in the game and give themselves a chance to win. And they won.

But, as big an event as this was, I think people this board are exaggerating things a bit in terms of the physical nature of the game.

[ncman071]

I would like to do that, but right now I think what's happening is that FCS as well as App State fans are looking at things through FCS/App State glasses.

I mean, App State played well enough to win. That's self evident. But this thing of acting like they clearly outplayed Michigan in a physical sense when Michigan got almost 500 yards of offense, I think, is overdoing it. And it's not one of those things where one team has a HUGE lead and there are a bunch of meaningless yards. It was a close game.

Here's another one: Michigan's top back got 188 yards and averaged over 8 yards per carry. It's pretty obvious that App State's defense wasn't exactly stifling the Michigan offense. Yes, they played well enough to be in the game and give themselves a chance to win. And they won.

But, as big an event as this was, I think people this board are exaggerating things a bit in terms of the physical nature of the game.


whatever, App had 2 int's, 1 fumble, a dropped TD pass, and a missed field goal. We still won! It's not like we played with perfection. The better team won hands down. Realistically, our starters shouldn't even be able to hang with their 2nd and 3rd stringers, but we beat dat azz. GO APPS!!

[FCSFAN]

Was App State's Win Over Michigan a Fluke?

Correct answer: No, App St was the better team

[Jerbearasu]

No they weren't. I saw the highlights. Michigan's kicker was faster than App's safety.

Their punt returner was also faster than our offensive guards... He was talking about position to position. Also, Corey had been playing the whole time on D the whole game; their kicker played a total of maybe 10 plays so he may have had a little more energy at the time... When you looked at team speed our receivers had a step on their corners... Our corners could hang with their receivers which is why Mario Manningham was MIA. They were bigger but we were able to get everywhere and make the play faster than they were.

[Johnny5]

App State was definitely not flukish. They were coming off 2 STRAIGHT national titles in FCS/1AA with most of their team returning. The other thing most people are overlooking is that the top tier programs in the FCS are not that far away from consistent competition with their FBS counterparts. Obviously, the only thing keeping your ASU's of the FCS from being in the FBS is enrollment and little else.

[DaveK]

Was App State's Win Over Michigan a Fluke?

Correct answer: No, App St was the better team

You mean they were the better team on that day, right?

[JohnStOnge]

Their punt returner was also faster than our offensive guards... He was talking about position to position.... When you looked at team speed our receivers had a step on their corners... Our corners could hang with their receivers which is why Mario Manningham was MIA. They were bigger but we were able to get everywhere and make the play faster than they were.

I will try to look at the whole thing but I really doubt it.

[GreatAppSt]

Here's another one: Michigan's top back got 188 yards and averaged over 8 yards per carry. It's pretty obvious that App State's defense wasn't exactly stifling the Michigan offense.

Yep ASU let them gain alot between the 30s but on a football field that and $2.50 cents will get you a starbucks coffee.;)

[SirApp]

I will try to look at the whole thing but I really doubt it.

Seriously, watch the game. Hey, it'll be shown on FSN tomorrow, so check your local listings. I cannot understand for the life of me how you can post so vigorously on a topic and discredit the Appalachian State football team without watching the game.

Highlights do not tell the entire story.

[GreatAppSt]

Seriously, watch the game. Hey, it'll be shown on FSN tomorrow, so check your local listings. I cannot understand for the life of me how you can post so vigorously on a topic and discredit the Appalachian State football team without watching the game.

Highlights do not tell the entire story.

John loves his role as a board contrarian. He protects his role with the zeal and heart of the ASU football players.xthumbsupx

[boonegoon]

Ok guys. Lets slow down a little. I think a major thing we are not talking about is matchups. Our scheme plus our speed plus our preparation allowed us an opportunity to win. No, we could not stop them in the second half because we were getting tired (see Corey Lynch limp home and get ran down by the kicker). The spread offense negates a lot of the advantages that size and strength bring and we were better prepared pure and simple.

[parr90]

No this is not a Fluke! I have been arguing with people for years that some of our 1AA teams would beat, given seasons, some of the top teams in 1A. I played at GSU when we had Fla St. down 10-7 with six mins left in the game. They came back and won but we had a couple starters get hurt on defense. I have always said that this is a state of mind. Sure it helps to be able to sign the top players, but their are many flaws in that system of rankings. Some guys dont mature as fast until they get to college when some of these 5 star guys have peeked out by their senior year in high school.

Imagine this: Say when Georgia Southern goes to play UGA, what do the UGA players think? They know that they will win the ball game without a doubt but they just dont know by how many points. GSU on the other hand, and this is only an example, wants to win the game but feels that they probably wont but have a slight chance if God gives them some mirricles. They dont admit this in the locker room of course, they act like they can win but deep down dont really believe they will.

They have already lost and UGA has alread sealed what they already know. Truth is you play like you think. Confidence is the most powerful weapon a team can have. I say the outcome would be much different, even if UGA won, if GSU truly believed they would win the game.

I think APP ST belleved they would win this game and once they saw they could, they went and took it. This was not a fluke.

[Eyes of Old Main]

Appalachian won, so they were the better team that day. If they played 10 times, Appalachian would not win the majority of the games, but that doesn't matter. It wasn't a fluke because it was settled on the field fair and square.

[asu70]

I can understand somebody arguing that the stats don't tell the story but I don't see how you can look at the stats and say that Michigan was clearly "outplayed." Michigan had more first downs (23 to 19), more rushing yards (246 to 160), more passing yards (233 to 227), and (of course) more total yards (479 to 387). Michigan had a higher average gain per play (6.2 to 5.8). And a big one...one that I think shows control of the line of scrimmage...is that Michigan averaged 6.2 yards per rush to App State's 3.6. Even if you take away Hart's 54 yard TD run, the Wolverines averaged 4.9 per carry.

Another indication of winning the battle at the line of scrimmage: In spite of the fact that App State has a highly moblie QB, Michigan had four sacks to App's one.

Bottom line: Michigan moved the ball better than App did. Not that much better, but better.

Most of the time, when one looks at the stats, one can see an explanation for why the winner won. Frankly, this is one of those exceptions such that that's not the case. If you looked at those stats and didn't already know the score you'd think the team that ran the ball better, got more sacks, had substantially more total yards as well as rushing yards, averaged more yards per play, got more first downs, and won the giveaway/takeaway battle won.




No. I read a Sports Illustrated blog about that. One guy wanted to vote for App State in the top 25 and found that he can't.

Did I miss something or did UM win 34 to 32? Also, the bottom line in any sporting event is THE FINAL SCORE! I was one of more than 109k in the Big House to witness a great game played by both teams. IMO, having watched the game, the battle of the trenches was fairly even as indicated by the final score.

[Tailbone]

xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex Understood. You think it is a fluke. xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

Wrong.

The word fluke is defined as a stroke of luck, and implies being the beneficiary of circumstances beyond one's control.

App's win was not luck. It was due to better prep, focus and execution.
I would bet however, that if Michigan knew that their season would be at risk, the game would not have been the same. Michigan overlooked App.

App is not the better team, but they played the better game.

[rOryOs-ASU]

No Fluke , I was there and the better team won period!!

How can you be a 19, 20, 21 yr old who hasnt played a game in 9 months and not be jacked for the opening game??? two or three games into the season if ASU pops up on the schedule yes, but not for the opener!! They were ready , They were just overwhelmed by a great team!!!

[CCU97]

I think as always the Big 10 is overrated and App St. has a Heck of a team....could they do that 7 out of 10 games....maybe not....but they beat Michigan....Michigan did not beat themselves in this game!

[JDC325]

They were better that day and that all that really matters hence A.G.S. As far as out of 10 games no doubt UM wins the majority. That is not taking anything away from App that is just reality. You do not lose to a horrible NC State team one year and become a top 25 team in the entire country the next. Great HUGE win for App and congrats to them. This will bear more fruit than the last two NC's as far as generating buzz and exciting the fan base as anyone can see allready.

[asu70]

On most football schedules, you only get one shot at beating any given opponent not 5,10, or 100. UM didn't get the job done but App did, and that's the bottom line!

[MarkCCU]

I'm not sure about a fluke but it's simply amazing!

[MarkCCU]

Amazing how many Appstate fans say it wasn't a fluke.

[Longrifle]

Football is not played like baseball. There are no series. Saying a team would win x out of 10 games is pure speculation with no facts to back it up.

In football you have one chance to prepare and execute. App took care of business and Michigan did not. The FACT is App won. NO FLUKE!

[AppGirl]

Amazing how many Appstate fans say it wasn't a fluke.

And what about the other fans that are saying it? Should we just keep our opinions to ourselves? I was at the game, and I have watched the replay on the Big Ten Network. The replay looked different from the game. Amazing how, when they wanted to cut it for time, they chose to cut most of the 2nd quarter, where App scored 3 Touchdowns!
No, this was no fluke. We played well. We made some mistakes, so did they. We let them gain yardage, but our defense turned it on when they needed to, like they usually do. Coach Carr said on his TV show that they got too many penalties. They were about even. We turned the ball over more than they did. We dropped a touchdown pass and missed (not had blocked) a field goal. We still had the heart, the coaching and the athletes to keep it together and win the game. The game where we had the lead the majority of the time!

[hawkeye]

Miiiiiiiiiichigan got their butts handed to them. No fluke.

[Black Saturday]

"Michigan's kicker was faster than App's safety. "

Lynch had just played his butt off for the whole game. The kicking team that caught him at the 5yd line had not been on the field chasing and making tackles and blocking kicks all afternoon.

[trusty]

This weekend I do not think the win was a fluke. Appt played with more heart and was the better team. It was a great win and wish GSU could have been in your shoes. Maybe next year when we play UGAY. I don't think that win would be bigger than this upset except to the Eagle Nation.

Now I hope you lose out the rest of the season.xlolx xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

[SoCon48]

Amazing how many Appstate fans say it wasn't a fluke.
Normally in a fluke the winner doesn't lead 90% of the game.xeyebrowx

[Saluki Fan in FL]

I'm bugged by the fact that so many people are saying that Michigan was overlooking this game, or that they weren't prepared, or that they underestimated Appy St. Someone posted on this board last week... and I can't find the post... quotes from Michigan's players. They WERE PREPARED for this game, and they were definitely NOT overlooking Appy St.

Can someone help me find that post from last week with the quotes?

[GreatAppSt]

You do not lose to a horrible NC State team one year and become a top 25 team in the entire country the next.

Last time, That was a different team. No Edwards! And Elder was still recovering from shoulder surgery after spring ball was maybe 85%. Apples to Oranges.xcoolx

[Cap'n Cat]

Oh, *****! This is a PUBLIC poll??

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

ASU outplayed them on Saturday. Don't think they would do it day-in, day-out. They would go 5-7 with Michigan's schedule, at best.

Hats off to ASU, nonetheless.

[SirApp]

Last time, That was a different team. No Edwards! And Elder was still recovering from shoulder surgery after spring ball was maybe 85%. Apples to Oranges.xcoolx

The play-calling was different as well. Again, apples to oranges.

[Cap'n Cat]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx What luck???? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx (or did you not see the game)

xnonox

Ralphie......come now, when does badgering overshadow the defense of your point?

xnonox

[Saluki Fan in FL]

Found it!!! They new what they were in store for...


Some quotes from Michigan players & coach at yesterday's presser

DE Tim Jamison:
Quote:
On how the team feels heading into the opener against Appalachian State ... "We're excited about the opener against Appalachian State. We had a chance to watch them a little bit on film last night. We're excited to play them. We have much respect for their team."

On what he knew about Appalachian State when he found out it was the schedule ... "My little brother said he watched them on TV and said, 'man, they're pretty good.' I know that they've won two national championships, so I'm excited to play them. They have a nice quarterback who is pretty quick and a nice running back."

On if there are concerns about overlooking this game ... "We're definitely not looking past this game. We have much respect for this program and we're excited to play them."

LG Adam Kraus:
Quote:
On Appalachian State's defensive line ... "It's always hard the first game to gauge what the other team, personnel-wise, is going to be like. You have to study their past films, and their games from last year, to see how they are going to play and what technique they are going to have. So yeah, it's always tough the first game but you manage."

On the opener versus Appalachian State ... "It's the opener. You have to take it one game at a time. I think Appalachian State is a great team. They've won two straight NCAA Division I-AA National Championships, and that speaks for itself. We're not going to take these guys lightly at all. They have a powerful offense, and they're a fast team. I am excited to play, and I know my teammates are too."
HC Lloyd Carr:
Quote:
What have been your impressions of Appalachian State. What do they do well? ... "They're a team with outstanding team speed. I think that particularly the skill positions, the wide receiver position, and obviously Edwards is an exciting athlete at quarterback. From the reports that I've read, he's improved dramatically in terms of the passing game. But he's an exciting football player.

"Their secondary is back. I think they have excellent speed on defense. And the kicking game, they have outstanding return teams. The thing when you look at them, the thing that immediately impresses is their team speed."

What type of offensive style are you expecting from Appalachian State? ... "They have a new offensive coordinator, so we're expecting some different things from what they did a year ago. But philosophically I think they're still going to be a quarterback-oriented offense, and by that I mean they're going to have a lot of ways in which the ball will be in his hand in the running game as well as the passing game."

When you break down film, I'm guessing that you probably know about the team that they're playing on film. Does that make it harder for Appalachian State since they probably don't know as much about the teams that they play? ... "I think that's fair to say, but I think as players and as coaches when you turn their film on, the caliber of the competition they play, those guys are well-coached, and they're extremely competitive. Because we don't play anybody they play, I think it certainly makes it different in terms of personnel and all those issues. But I don't think from any other standpoint it's any different than any other game."

NO FLUKE!xbowx
Now let's see the Salukis do it again this year against a FBS team. Last year Indiana... this year Northern IL!!!
Go Dawgs!!!

[AggieFinn]

not a fluke, Appy played better, hence...THEY WON THE GAME. Geez all this fluke crap. WWU played better than we did, we played better than Stanford did, it's just about who plays better...

[JDC325]

Last time, That was a different team. No Edwards! And Elder was still recovering from shoulder surgery after spring ball was maybe 85%. Apples to Oranges.xcoolx

So your trying to suggest you could be one of the better teams in the FBS this year?
We are drifting into la la land a tad.

[SoCon48]

Ann Arbor was La La Land Saturday.