AGS Poll Results - Week 9 - 2021

[AGSPoll]

11/1/2021



Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes


1
Sam Houston Bearkats
1261
37


2
North Dakota State Bison
1238
14


3
Montana State Bobcats
1128



4
James Madison Dukes
1112



5
Eastern Washington Eagles
1034



6
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
1000



7

Southern Illinois Salukis
899



8

UC Davis Aggies
888



9
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
828



10
Northern Iowa Panthers
757



11
Villanova Wildcats
754



12
East Tennessee State Buccaneers
661



13
Montana Grizzlies
631



14
Kennesaw State Owls
578



15
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
551



16
Sac State Hornets
524



17
Missouri State Bears
466



18
Princeton Tigers
383



19
Virginia Military Institute Keydets
332



20
South Dakota Coyotes
326



21
William & Mary Tribe
318



22
Incarnate Word Cardinals
209



23
Weber State Wildcats
167



24
Jackson State Tigers
136



25
Chattanooga Mocs
129
















ORV:




26
Eastern Kentucky Colonels
120



27
Mercer Bears
69



28
Dartmouth Big Green
30



29
Monmouth Hawks
15



30
Harvard Crimson
11



31
Holy Cross Crusaders
7



32
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
5
































































Most Significant Win:
William & Mary Tribe





Most Significant Loss:
Villanova Wildcats

[Hambone]

Why are there 5 points for UND? C'mon people, they've lost 5 games.......

[clenz]

Why are there 5 points for UND? C'mon people, they've lost 5 games.......
They are in last place in the Valley. Anyone voting for them, and it isn't a NDSU mistake, needs to be stripped of voting rights.

[Professor Chaos]

This week's poll article: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-9-top-25-results-3/

Pretty calm week. One minor criticism I'd have is SDSU being one spot above UNI in the consensus. They both have the same record in the MVFC and UNI beat SDSU in Brookings by 2 scores. The only other difference is their FBS games and, while SDSU was very impressive with their Colorado St beatdown, UNI played a tougher opponent in Iowa St and played them very well.

Mentioned in the article that Montana St is at their highest ranking since 2012 and William & Mary is in the top 25 for the first time since 2016 but another worth noting is Southeastern Louisiana who is higher than they've been since 2014.

[Professor Chaos]

Here's what I came up with:

1: Sam Houston Bearkats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: James Madison Dukes
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: UC Davis Aggies
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
10: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
11: Villanova Wildcats
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Missouri State Bears
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: Kennesaw State Owls
16: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
17: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
18: South Dakota Coyotes
19: Virginia Military Institute Keydets
20: William & Mary Tribe
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Incarnate Word Cardinals
23: Jackson State Tigers
24: Weber State Wildcats
25: Chattanooga Mocs

I thought Mercer, Eastern Kentucky, and Dartmouth all deserved inclusion this week but I just didn't enough spots.

[Professor Chaos]

They are in last place in the Valley. Anyone voting for them, and it isn't a NDSU mistake, needs to be stripped of voting rights.
And if they meant to vote NDSU at #21 they look double-dumb.

[atthewbon]

Here’s mine:

1: Sam Houston Bearkats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: James Madison Dukes
5: Southern Illinois Salukis
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Villanova Wildcats
8: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
9: Northern Iowa Panthers
10: Kennesaw State Owls
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: UC Davis Aggies
13: Montana Grizzlies
14: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
15: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Missouri State Bears
18: South Dakota Coyotes
19: Sac State Hornets
20: Virginia Military Institute Keydets
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Jackson State Tigers
23: Weber State Wildcats
24: Mercer Bears
25: Chattanooga Mocs

[NDSU1980]

Why are there 5 points for UND? C'mon people, they've lost 5 games.......

Maybe we can get Southerner on the cause. He seems to have done a good job of ridding JSU from the polls.

[nodak651]

They are in last place in the Valley. Anyone voting for them, and it isn't a NDSU mistake, needs to be stripped of voting rights.

Not that I would vote for UND at this point, but they've shown that they can compete with every team in the Valley. It's a poll for ranking the best 25 teams, no? UND missed 3 field goals and the game tying kick against SIU with our back up kicker. Had Missouri State dead to rights the past weekend, and lost to both NDSU and South Dakota by less than a touchdown. With the close losses except for the NDSU game all being on the road as well, I think an argument could be made for UND being at top 25 best team. All I'm saying is that an argument could be made, not that it would be correct... just don't think it's such a bad take that stripped voting rights should be mentioned. Bad teams don't keep that many difficult games close.

[Chalupa Batman]

I don't understand why UT-Martin is so high. Yes, the record is nice but their schedule has been Charmin ultra-soft. Their opponents' combined records against FCS competition is 15-36. 4 of their 7 wins have been by 1 score, and in another win they trailed 1-win Eastern Illinois going into the 4th quarter. Their best win is..... Murray State by 24? I think Montana is way too high as well, I seriously considered dropping them from my poll altogether this week. They are no where close to the same team that beat Washington and went toe to toe with EWU.

Anyway, here's mine:

1. Sam Houston Bearkats
2. North Dakota State Bison
3. James Madison Dukes
4. Southeastern Louisiana Lions
5. Eastern Washington Eagles
6. Montana State Bobcats
7. Southern Illinois Salukis
8. Northern Iowa Panthers
9. South Dakota State Jackrabbits
10. East Tennessee State Buccaneers
11. UC Davis Aggies
12. Villanova Wildcats
13. Missouri State Bears
14. Sac State Hornets
15. Kennesaw State Owls
16. Princeton Tigers
17. Chattanooga Mocs
18. William & Mary Tribe
19. Virginia Military Institute Keydets
20. Weber State Wildcats
21. South Dakota Coyotes
22. Jackson State Tigers
23. Incarnate Word Cardinals
24. Montana Grizzlies
25. Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

[clenz]

Not that I would vote for UND at this point, but they've shown that they can compete with every team in the Valley. It's a poll for ranking the best 25 teams, no? UND missed 3 field goals and the game tying kick against SIU with our back up kicker. Had Missouri State dead to rights the past weekend, and lost to both NDSU and South Dakota by less than a touchdown. With the close losses except for the NDSU game all being on the road as well, I think an argument could be made for UND being at top 25 best team. All I'm saying is that an argument could be made, not that it would be correct... just don't think it's such a bad take that stripped voting rights should be mentioned. Bad teams don't keep that many games close.
I've seen some mental gymnastics over the years - including from me

but

holy **** did you just take the cake.

[MSUBobcat]

This week's poll article: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-9-top-25-results-3/

Pretty calm week. One minor criticism I'd have is SDSU being one spot above UNI in the consensus. They both have the same record in the MVFC and UNI beat SDSU in Brookings by 2 scores. Mentioned in the article that Montana St is at their highest ranking since 2012 and William & Mary is in the top 25 for the first time since 2016 but another worth noting is Southeastern Louisiana who is higher than they've been since 2014.

You mother****ers... xpissedx Now we're screwed against EWU this weekend.

Thank God BBQ thrashed Idaho State so they will meet some voters' criteria of having at least a .500 record for inclusion in the top 25. Last week being 3-4, they were definitely NOT top 25 worthy. But with that big win over ISU, TOTALLY worthy. xawesomex

[nodak651]

I've seen some mental gymnastics over the years - including from me

but

holy **** did you just take the cake.

How well does UT-Martin do with the same schedule?

[clenz]

I don't understand why UT-Martin is so high. Yes, the record is nice but their schedule has been Charmin ultra-soft. Their opponents' combined records against FCS competition is 15-36. 4 of their 7 wins have been by 1 score, and in another win they trailed 1-win Eastern Illinois going into the 4th quarter. Their best win is..... Murray State by 24? I think Montana is way too high as well, I seriously considered dropping them from my poll altogether this week. They are no where close to the same team that beat Washington and went toe to toe with EWU.
Need to be careful with that argument

South Dakota State's wins this year
Colorado State - who wouldn't be top 25 FCS
D2 Lindenwood
Indiana State - pretty damn bad. Not last place in the Valley bad, but bad.
Dixie State - 0-8
WIU - last place in the Valley
YSU - tied for last with WIU and UND


Montana's wins this year
Washington - an average FBS school this year
2-7 WIU
1-7 Poly
0-8 Dixie
2-6 Idaho
1-8 SUU

Sac State
1-8 Dixie State
1-7 Idaho State
1-8 Southern Utah
4-4 Northern Arizona
3-6 Northern Colorado


If we really start looking at quality of schedule and win quality there are a few schools that could/should take some MAJOR hits in rankings

But they play horrific schedules so they pile up wins, even if unimpressively, so they get ranked high because "RANK WIN TOTALS"

[Professor Chaos]

I don't understand why UT-Martin is so high. Yes, the record is nice but their schedule has been Charmin ultra-soft. Their opponents' combined records against FCS competition is 15-36. 4 of their 7 wins have been by 1 score, and in another win they trailed 1-win Eastern Illinois going into the 4th quarter. Their best win is..... Murray State by 24?
They're not world beaters but I think they're clearly a top 25 team thus far. They are still 7-1 and their SoS so far (according to Massey) is better than ETSU, Princeton, SLU, Montana St, and Sam Houston.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

They are in last place in the Valley. Anyone voting for them, and it isn't a NDSU mistake, needs to be stripped of voting rights.

It isn't an NDSU mistake at #21. It seems like a poor choice to me as well but some put an overemphasis on SOS I think. Very few, but it's part of the stew.

Hawks are moving down 1 spot/week so at this rate I guess the will have 4,3, & 2. unless the trend changes.

[clenz]

How well does UT-Martin do with the same schedule?
How does UND do with UNI's schedule.

UND seems lucky to miss UNI this year.

You're in last place in the Valley after 9 weeks of the season tied with WIU and YSU

Just ****ing stop

I could argue WIU is 7-2 against the OVC but it doesn't change they aren't good.

[Bisonator]

I don't understand why UT-Martin is so high. Yes, the record is nice but their schedule has been Charmin ultra-soft. Their opponents' combined records against FCS competition is 15-36. 4 of their 7 wins have been by 1 score, and in another win they trailed 1-win Eastern Illinois going into the 4th quarter. Their best win is..... Murray State by 24? I think Montana is way too high as well, I seriously considered dropping them from my poll altogether this week. They are no where close to the same team that beat Washington and went toe to toe with EWU.

Anyway, here's mine:

1. Sam Houston Bearkats
2. North Dakota State Bison
3. James Madison Dukes
4. Southeastern Louisiana Lions
5. Eastern Washington Eagles
6. Montana State Bobcats
7. Southern Illinois Salukis
8. Northern Iowa Panthers
9. South Dakota State Jackrabbits
10. East Tennessee State Buccaneers
11. UC Davis Aggies
12. Villanova Wildcats
13. Missouri State Bears
14. Sac State Hornets
15. Kennesaw State Owls
16. Princeton Tigers
17. Chattanooga Mocs
18. William & Mary Tribe
19. Virginia Military Institute Keydets
20. Weber State Wildcats
21. South Dakota Coyotes
22. Jackson State Tigers
23. Incarnate Word Cardinals
24. Montana Grizzlies
25. Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
Lol yet you have SELA 4th? xeyebrowx

[clenz]

Need to be careful with that argument

South Dakota State's wins this year
Colorado State - who wouldn't be top 25 FCS
D2 Lindenwood
Indiana State - pretty damn bad. Not last place in the Valley bad, but bad.
Dixie State - 0-8
WIU - last place in the Valley
YSU - tied for last with WIU and UND


Montana's wins this year
Washington - an average FBS school this year
2-7 WIU
1-7 Poly
0-8 Dixie
2-6 Idaho
1-8 SUU

Sac State
1-8 Dixie State
1-7 Idaho State
1-8 Southern Utah
4-4 Northern Arizona
3-6 Northern Colorado


If we really start looking at quality of schedule and win quality there are a few schools that could/should take some MAJOR hits in rankings

But they play horrific schedules so they pile up wins, even if unimpressively, so they get ranked high because "RANK WIN TOTALS"A fwe more

SHSU wins - 1 win over scholarship teams with a winning record
4-4 NAU
3-5 SEMO
4-4 UCA
5-3 SFA
2-8 Lamar
3-5 Jax State
4-4 Tarleton

Montana State - zero wins over scholarship teams with a winning record
2-5 Drake
5-4 San Diego
THAT'S WHO ****ING NON SCHOLARSHIP TEAMS
4-4 Portland State
3-6 Northern Colorado
1-7 Poly
4-4 Weber
1-7 Idaho State

JMU - 0-1 against scholarship teams with a winning record
5-3 Morehead State
4-4 Maine
4-4 Weber
3-5 UNH
3-5 Richmond
4-4 Delaware
4-4 Elon

SLU - zero wins over scholarhip teams over .500
2-6 North Alabama
2-6 Central Conn
3-5 McNeese
4-4 Nicholls
0-8 Houston Baptist
1-7 NW LA
Also lost to a BAAAAD LA Tech team.

Villanova - 1-1 vs scholarhip teams over .500
0-8 Lehigh
1-7 Bucknell
3-5 Richmond
0-8 Albany
5-3 URI
7-1 JMU

NDSU 2-0 vs scholarhip fcs teams over .500
0-8 Albany
2-6 Valpo
4-4 Towson
3-5 UND
5-3 UNI
3-5 ISUR
5-3 MSU
4-5 ISUB

UNI
6-2 Sac State
5-2 St Thomas
2-5 YSU
6-2 SDSU
6-2 SIU


You want I should keep going?

I think fans of many high rated teams are going to get into a world of trouble they didn't think they'd be in if they want to go that route.

[MTfan4life]

A fwe more

SHSU wins - 1 win over scholarship teams with a winning record
4-4 NAU
3-5 SEMO
4-4 UCA
5-3 SFA
2-8 Lamar
3-5 Jax State
4-4 Tarleton

Montana State - zero wins over scholarship teams with a winning record
2-5 Drake
5-4 San Diego
THAT'S WHO ****ING NON SCHOLARSHIP TEAMS
4-4 Portland State
3-6 Northern Colorado
1-7 Poly
4-4 Weber
1-7 Idaho State

JMU - 0-1 against scholarship teams with a winning record
5-3 Morehead State
4-4 Maine
4-4 Weber
3-5 UNH
3-5 Richmond
4-4 Delaware
4-4 Elon

SLU - zero wins over scholarhip teams over .500
2-6 North Alabama
2-6 Central Conn
3-5 McNeese
4-4 Nicholls
0-8 Houston Baptist
1-7 NW LA
Also lost to a BAAAAD LA Tech team.

Villanova - 1-1 vs scholarhip teams over .500
0-8 Lehigh
1-7 Bucknell
3-5 Richmond
0-8 Albany
5-3 URI
7-1 JMU

NDSU 2-0 vs scholarhip fcs teams over .500
0-8 Albany
2-6 Valpo
4-4 Towson
3-5 UND
5-3 UNI
3-5 ISUR
5-3 MSU
4-5 ISUB

UNI
6-2 Sac State
5-2 St Thomas
2-5 YSU
6-2 SDSU
6-2 SIU


You want I should keep going?

I think fans of many high rated teams are going to get into a world of trouble they didn't think they'd be in if they want to go that route.

The irony in these arguments considering your prior claim of another person pushing mental gymnastics is astronomical. You are a walking contradiction. Over and over again.

[caribbeanhen]

They are in last place in the Valley. Anyone voting for them, and it isn't a NDSU mistake, needs to be stripped of voting rights.

go ahead and name all 24 teams that would beat them

when you get to 18 or so gonna be shakey

[caribbeanhen]

Here's what I came up with:

1: Sam Houston Bearkats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: James Madison Dukes
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: UC Davis Aggies
8: Southern Illinois Salukis
9: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
10: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
11: Villanova Wildcats
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Missouri State Bears
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: Kennesaw State Owls
16: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
17: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
18: South Dakota Coyotes
19: Virginia Military Institute Keydets
20: William & Mary Tribe
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Incarnate Word Cardinals
23: Jackson State Tigers
24: Weber State Wildcats
25: Chattanooga Mocs

I thought Mercer, Eastern Kentucky, and Dartmouth all deserved inclusion this week but I just didn't enough spots.

somehow I got those 3 in my poll and by the way Professor, Princeton would beat several of those teams you have ranked above them...

[nodak651]

How does UND do with UNI's schedule.

UND seems lucky to miss UNI this year.

You're in last place in the Valley after 9 weeks of the season tied with WIU and YSU

Just ****ing stop

I could argue WIU is 7-2 against the OVC but it doesn't change they aren't good.

WIU has a bunch of blow out losses... you wouldn't make that argument and this seems to be some type of straw man argument that you're trying to build. UT Martin wouldn't do any better than UND has done, and you know it, but they are ranked. I think you're missing the point from my original post, in which I was NOT arguing for UND to be ranked.

[Professor Chaos]

somehow I got those 3 in my poll and by the way Professor, Princeton would beat several of those teams you have ranked above them...
You may be right... too bad we'll never find out.

[atthewbon]

go ahead and name all 24 teams that would beat them

when you get to 18 or so gonna be shakey

Agreed. By no means do I think und should be ranked but I can see the thought process behind it. On a neutral field und probably beats some of the top 25 teams in this poll. I personally don’t think that’s enough to rank them because I think a team’s record and resume should play a significant part in ranking teams but I don’t think it’s completely crazy to make the argument und is a top 25 team in the fcs (which is essentially what the top 25 poll is trying to do).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Daytripper]

1: Sam Houston Bearkats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: James Madison Dukes
4: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: Southern Illinois Salukis
8: UC Davis Aggies
9: Villanova Wildcats
10: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
11: Northern Iowa Panthers
12: Kennesaw State Owls
13: Montana Grizzlies
14: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
15: Missouri State Bears
16: Princeton Tigers
17: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
18: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
19: Sac State Hornets
20: Virginia Military Institute Keydets
21: South Dakota Coyotes
22: Mercer Bears
23: William & Mary Tribe
24: Chattanooga Mocs
25: Incarnate Word Cardinals

[POD Knows]

Why are there 5 points for UND? C'mon people, they've lost 5 games.......
How do you guys lose the games you lose. It is amazing to me.

[Professor Chaos]

How do you guys lose the games you lose. It is amazing to me.
I view them from afar the same way I imagine all other NFL fans view the Vikings.

[caribbeanhen]

Agreed. By no means do I think und should be ranked but I can see the thought process behind it. On a neutral field und probably beats some of the top 25 teams in this poll. I personally don’t think that’s enough to rank them because I think a team’s record and resume should play a significant part in ranking teams but I don’t think it’s completely crazy to make the argument und is a top 25 team in the fcs (which is essentially what the top 25 poll is trying to do).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right! I didn’t rank North Dakota but if It came down to you have to make a bet on a game ....

Hello caribbeanhen,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/31/2021 7:07:33

Your vote is listed below.


1: Sam Houston Bearkats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: James Madison Dukes
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
8: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9: Southern Illinois Salukis
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: Missouri State Bears
12: Princeton Tigers
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: Sac State Hornets
15: Montana Grizzlies
16: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
17: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
18: Kennesaw State Owls
19: South Dakota Coyotes
20: Dartmouth Big Green
21: William & Mary Tribe
22: Chattanooga Mocs
23: Weber State Wildcats
24: Mercer Bears
25: Eastern Kentucky Colonels

[POD Knows]

go ahead and name all 24 teams that would beat them

when you get to 18 or so gonna be shakey
UND has consistently proven that they can lose to anybody at anytime regardless of the situation at hand. They are a good football team that cannot get out of their own way.

[POD Knows]

I view them from afar the same way I imagine all other NFL fans view the Vikings.
They are a lot like the Vikings. Lots of talent and no real tangible results. They are not good in the big moments.

[nodak651]

Agreed. By no means do I think und should be ranked but I can see the thought process behind it. On a neutral field und probably beats some of the top 25 teams in this poll. I personally don’t think that’s enough to rank them because I think a team’s record and resume should play a significant part in ranking teams but I don’t think it’s completely crazy to make the argument und is a top 25 team in the fcs (which is essentially what the top 25 poll is trying to do).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is basically exactly what I'm thinking.

I mean, hypothetically, if UND was say the 25th best team, they should lose to the teams above them and they should beat the unranked teams. UND did exactly that by losing all the ranked FCS games by a touchdown or less, and by easily beating the unranked teams.

Not sure how thats mental gymnastics. This isnt a "predict the playoff field" poll.

[Chalupa Batman]

How does UND do with UNI's schedule.

UND seems lucky to miss UNI this year.

You're in last place in the Valley after 9 weeks of the season tied with WIU and YSU

Just ****ing stop

I could argue WIU is 7-2 against the OVC but it doesn't change they aren't good.

Did you really just argue against my wondering why UT-Martin is ranked so high and then turn around and say WIU (while also pointing out that they are not good) would have pretty much the same record as UT-Martin??

[MSUBobcat]

Did you really just argue against my wondering why UT-Martin is ranked so high and then turn around and say WIU (while also pointing out that they are not good) would have pretty much the same record as UT-Martin??

xdizzyx

[Professor Chaos]

Hello caribbeanhen,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/31/2021 7:07:33

Your vote is listed below.


1: Sam Houston Bearkats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: James Madison Dukes
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
8: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9: Southern Illinois Salukis
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: Missouri State Bears
12: Princeton Tigers
13: UC Davis Aggies
14: Sac State Hornets
15: Montana Grizzlies
16: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
17: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
18: Kennesaw State Owls
19: South Dakota Coyotes
20: Dartmouth Big Green
21: William & Mary Tribe
22: Chattanooga Mocs
23: Weber State Wildcats
24: Mercer Bears
25: Eastern Kentucky Colonels

Pretty tough to rank Mercer without ranking VMI, who Mercer lost to 45-7 two weeks ago, no?

[Preferred Walk-On]

A fwe more

SHSU wins - 1 win over scholarship teams with a winning record
4-4 NAU
3-5 SEMO
4-4 UCA
5-3 SFA
2-8 Lamar
3-5 Jax State
4-4 Tarleton

Montana State - zero wins over scholarship teams with a winning record
2-5 Drake
5-4 San Diego
THAT'S WHO ****ING NON SCHOLARSHIP TEAMS
4-4 Portland State
3-6 Northern Colorado
1-7 Poly
4-4 Weber
1-7 Idaho State

JMU - 0-1 against scholarship teams with a winning record
5-3 Morehead State
4-4 Maine
4-4 Weber
3-5 UNH
3-5 Richmond
4-4 Delaware
4-4 Elon

SLU - zero wins over scholarhip teams over .500
2-6 North Alabama
2-6 Central Conn
3-5 McNeese
4-4 Nicholls
0-8 Houston Baptist
1-7 NW LA
Also lost to a BAAAAD LA Tech team.

Villanova - 1-1 vs scholarhip teams over .500
0-8 Lehigh
1-7 Bucknell
3-5 Richmond
0-8 Albany
5-3 URI
7-1 JMU

NDSU 2-0 vs scholarhip fcs teams over .500
0-8 Albany
2-6 Valpo
4-4 Towson
3-5 UND
5-3 UNI
3-5 ISUR
5-3 MSU
4-5 ISUB

UNI
6-2 Sac State
5-2 St Thomas
2-5 YSU
6-2 SDSU
6-2 SIU


You want I should keep going?

I think fans of many high rated teams are going to get into a world of trouble they didn't think they'd be in if they want to go that route.

Clenz, one of the things I like about your arguments (even if they are sometimes a bit aggressive) is that they are usually supported by data. I would actually really enjoy this analysis for the remaining top 25 teams. I am wondering if you will find a team(s) where one cannot pick on some sort of variation of "the competition is poor" or a variation of "they got beat by the best teams". This argument would be circular, because if a team got beat by the best teams, but the best teams are not really that great due to beating creampuffs, then what are you left with?

I get it. North Dakota should not necessarily be ranked (or probably even receiving votes); however, I can also see that North Dakota is perhaps not quite as bad as their record would indicate (I did not rank them, but I can imagine some ranked teams might not want to face them in a one-and-done scenario). Also, Northern Iowa IS better than some (many?) posters think, and they are the game I would never miss against the Bison (even over SDSU); however, if they beat good teams, and the good teams are not really that good, then by extension, is Northern Iowa really that good? I am, of course, playing devil's advocate here.

Rather than providing why teams maybe do not deserve their high ranking, I might cut to the chase and ask which teams actually are worthy of top 25 (top 10?) ranking, and are AGS voters even remotely close to being "correct" in their rankings?

[Chalupa Batman]

Lol yet you have SELA 4th? xeyebrowx

Yes. Save for a couple close calls against an always solid McNeese (who over the years is pretty much the Southlands version of UNI) the rest of the results have been what you would expect a highly ranked team to do. I may have them overranked but I don't think it's by much.

[caribbeanhen]

Pretty tough to rank Mercer without ranking VMI, who Mercer lost to 45-7 two weeks ago, no?

you’re right, In retrospect I shouldn’t have ranked either one and just gone with Harvard

[F'N Hawks]

I've seen some mental gymnastics over the years - including from me

but

holy **** did you just take the cake.

Easy. UNI has been ranked in Top 25 with a losing record several times over the years, including when they were 1-4. UND simply got one vote from somebody, not sure why though.

[clenz]

Easy. UNI has been ranked in Top 25 with a losing record several times over the years, including when they were 1-4. UND simply got one vote from somebody, not sure why though.
UNI has been 1-4 once

2012

D2 win due to SSU backing out of the game
Losses to Iowa, Wisconsin, #3 YSU and #1 NDSU.

By your logic they should have been top 25 beacuse Wisconsin was a 5 point loss, YSU was a 7 point loss, Iowa was a one score game well into the fourth and was 11 points total


I don't remember them being ranked after that.

UNI has also never been ranked while being in last place in league play 9 weeks into the season - then again, I'm not sure UNI has ever been in last place 9 weeks into the season - nor being multiple games under .500 by week 9

[Bison56]

They are a lot like the Vikings. Lots of talent and no real tangible results. They are not good in the big moments.

The only thing they have in common is that they both have annoying fans.

[clenz]

The irony in these arguments considering your prior claim of another person pushing mental gymnastics is astronomical. You are a walking contradiction. Over and over again.
I'm not

I'm saying if you're going to question a teams ranking based on record and SoS you need to carry it all the way through and not just for teams in the 20s


As for UND - at some point you actually have to win those games and not be "just good enough to not lose by more"

[F'N Hawks]

UNI has been 1-4 once

2012

D2 win due to SSU backing out of the game
Losses to Iowa, Wisconsin, #3 YSU and #1 NDSU.

By your logic they should have been top 25 beacuse Wisconsin was a 5 point loss, YSU was a 7 point loss, Iowa was a one score game well into the fourth and was 11 points total


I don't remember them being ranked after that.

UNI has also never been ranked while being in last place in league play 9 weeks into the season - then again, I'm not sure UNI has ever been in last place 9 weeks into the season - nor being multiple games under .500 by week 9

Once again - UND IS NOT RANKED with a losing record. They got ONE vote. Stay focused.

[F'N Hawks]

UND also has #9 and #11 in the MVFC coming up at home so should get back to 5-5, if they are even decent this year. They lost to 1, 2, 3, and USD, who is tied for 4th.

[smilo]

North Dakota is 14th in Massey, 14th in Sagarin and 15th in SP+. Every result to date indicates they are one of the best teams in the FCS.

FBS loss against likely conference championship game participant
Home loss to #1 team by a late TD
Road losses to three teams ranked higher by a TD or less, including exceptionally high post-game win probability against #4 on my ballot.

I proudly voted for UND and I may not have put them high enough. The MVFC is the only FCS football conference worth anything this year. This isn't some dumb AP Poll where we rank teams based on how many losses they have.

If they lose one of the next two, they drop. For now, you won't find a better set of results from the long list of winning teams beating nobodies. Might as well fill their spot with Valdosta State if all you care about is record.

[POD Knows]

The only thing they have in common is that they both have annoying fans.
And they choke in an almost mystical way.

[nodak651]

Easy. UNI has been ranked in Top 25 with a losing record several times over the years, including when they were 1-4. UND simply got one vote from somebody, not sure why though.


UNI has been 1-4 once

2012

D2 win due to SSU backing out of the game
Losses to Iowa, Wisconsin, #3 YSU and #1 NDSU.
By your logic they should have been top 25 beacuse Wisconsin was a 5 point loss, YSU was a 7 point loss, Iowa was a one score game well into the fourth and was 11 points total
I don't remember them being ranked after that.
UNI has also never been ranked while being in last place in league play 9 weeks into the season - then again, I'm not sure UNI has ever been in last place 9 weeks into the season - nor being multiple games under .500 by week 9


I'm not
I'm saying if you're going to question a teams ranking based on record and SoS you need to carry it all the way through and not just for teams in the 20s
As for UND - at some point you actually have to win those games and not be "just good enough to not lose by more"

How do you read F'n Hawks post and conclude that he thinks either UNI's 2012 or this years UND team should be ranked? Everyone is pretty much agreeing with your last post as well. The issue is your first post in this thread - it's OK to admit that you are wrong.

[clenz]

North Dakota is 14th in Massey, 14th in Sagarin and 15th in SP+. Every result to date indicates they are one of the best teams in the FCS.

FBS loss against likely conference championship game participant
Home loss to #1 team by a late TD
Road losses to three teams ranked higher by a TD or less, including exceptionally high post-game win probability against #4 on my ballot.

I proudly voted for UND and I may not have put them high enough. The MVFC is the only FCS football conference worth anything this year. This isn't some dumb AP Poll where we rank teams based on how many losses they have.

If they lose one of the next two, they drop. For now, you won't find a better set of results from the long list of winning teams beating nobodies. Might as well fill their spot with Valdosta State if all you care about is record.


I get it, computers have them high. Massey also has ISUr at 24, YSU at 27 (a head of UT Martin) and WIU damn near dead even with EKU at 31/32. Do you have the Redbirds and Penguins on the edge or ranked?

Do I think UND does well against other conferences? Yes. I think everyone in the Valley does. The valley is really ****ing good. I'm a big proponent of using SoS as much, maybe more, than overall record. Having said that, at some point, you need to actually win the games.

[nodak651]

The only thing they have in common is that they both have annoying fans.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/1fRCAWBGBkikM/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47xozkm650kn0tit2pc0adx3ph1faq yx4lawojuj33&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[F'N Hawks]

Agreed Clenz, I have always said a team has to win games at some point. Which is why UND correctly isn't ranked. One person voted for them, that's it. UND isn't there yet to beat good teams on the road when it's tight. That much is very clear.

[smilo]

I get it, computers have them high. Massey also has ISUr at 24, YSU at 27 (a head of UT Martin) and WIU damn near dead even with EKU at 31/32. Do you have the Redbirds and Penguins on the edge or ranked?

Do I think UND does well against other conferences? Yes. I think everyone in the Valley does. The valley is really ****ing good. I'm a big proponent of using SoS as much, maybe more, than overall record. Having said that, at some point, you need to actually win the games.

I had Illinois State #27 last week before this unacceptable bad loss. Now they are barely top 40. None of their losses to good teams are by one score, they are all 3 score losses and they gave a bad loss on top of it.

[POD Knows]

1. SHSU
2. NDSU
3. EWU
4 JMU
5. MONTANA STATE
6. SDSU
7. SIU
8. SELA
9. VILLINOVA
10. KENNESAW STATE
11. UC DAVIS
12. UNI
13. SAC STATE
14 PRINCETON
15. TENN MARTIN
16. MONTANA
17. SOUTH DAKOTA
18. MISSOURI STATE
19. ETSU
20. VMI
21. JACKSON STATE
22. MERCER
23. CHATTY
24. WEBER STATE
25. WILLIAM AND MARY.

[Professor Chaos]

you’re right, In retrospect I shouldn’t have ranked either one and just gone with Harvard
Harvard was another team I was looking for an excuse to keep in my top 25. Real nice win over Holy Cross and should've beaten Princeton. If Princeton is a top 15 team Harvard is definitely at least a top 25 team. Having to pull Harvard out of my top 25 gave me an excuse to pull Princeton down a bit also.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Reflecting back on this, it was not one of my finer polls:

- South Dakota State is too high...I guess I just got caught up in the fact they kicked the crap out of a very poor YSU team who I remembered beating Missouri State.

- MVFC teams should be (after North Dakota State) Northern Iowa, South Dakota State, Southern Illinois (I know, H2H, blah, blah, blah...don't have WIU take you to OT).

- I feel like I may have bumped William & Mary a bit too much, but I also had to drop Villanova significantly, so we'll see how it shakes out this next week.

- Had the same dilemma as some for Eastern Kentucky and Mercer. They were just out, but again, we'll see what happens this upcoming weekend (at least for EKU).

- Feel like Princeton is too high...waiting to see how they do @ Dartmouth.

----------

Hello Preferred Walk-On,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/31/2021 11:44:10

Your vote is listed below.

1: Sam Houston Bearkats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
6: James Madison Dukes
7: Eastern Washington Eagles
8: Northern Iowa Panthers
9: Southern Illinois Salukis
10: UC Davis Aggies
11: Missouri State Bears
12: Kennesaw State Owls
13: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
14: Virginia Military Institute Keydets
15: Sac State Hornets
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Princeton Tigers
18: Weber State Wildcats
19: Montana Grizzlies
20: Villanova Wildcats
21: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
22: Chattanooga Mocs
23: Dartmouth Big Green
24: Incarnate Word Cardinals
25: Jackson State Tigers

Preferred Walk-On

The Most Significant Win: William & Mary Tribe
The Most Significant Loss: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[HootyHoo]

Not that I would vote for UND at this point, but they've shown that they can compete with every team in the Valley. It's a poll for ranking the best 25 teams, no? UND missed 3 field goals and the game tying kick against SIU with our back up kicker. Had Missouri State dead to rights the past weekend, and lost to both NDSU and South Dakota by less than a touchdown. With the close losses except for the NDSU game all being on the road as well, I think an argument could be made for UND being at top 25 best team. All I'm saying is that an argument could be made, not that it would be correct... just don't think it's such a bad take that stripped voting rights should be mentioned. Bad teams don't keep that many difficult games close.

Is this post satire? Because if it is for real, this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. From what i gather, you think an argument can be made that the Missouri Valley Conference is so superior to the rest of FCS that the last place team is still better than the vast majority of the other 117 schools. Wow just wow, l don't think SEC fans are that conceited.

[caribbeanhen]

I get it, computers have them high. Massey also has ISUr at 24, YSU at 27 (a head of UT Martin) and WIU damn near dead even with EKU at 31/32. Do you have the Redbirds and Penguins on the edge or ranked?

Do I think UND does well against other conferences? Yes. I think everyone in the Valley does. The valley is really ****ing good. I'm a big proponent of using SoS as much, maybe more, than overall record. Having said that, at some point, you need to actually win the games.

Well the Penguinos beat ranked Incarnate Word when they played

The Valley is head and shoulders (PG) above the rest of FCS this year and it is gross

[clenz]

Well the Penguinos beat ranked Incarnate Word when they played

The Valley is head and shoulders (PG) above the rest of FCS this year and it is gross
and they have 1 Valley win (somehow beat MSU)

They haven't played SIU or NDSU yet (and UND...a battle for tie breaker rights to finish in 10th it seems) but have scored 7 points vs UNI, 17 vs Indiana State, 16 vs SDSU, and then 35 against WIU. I am going to be shocked if they hit the over on 12.5 in 2 of their last 3 games

Same ****, different year, from YSU.

And somehow they only are playing 10 games this year. Cheated themselves out of their traditional PFL or NEC win.

[semobison]

North Dakota is 14th in Massey, 14th in Sagarin and 15th in SP+. Every result to date indicates they are one of the best teams in the FCS.

FBS loss against likely conference championship game participant
Home loss to #1 team by a late TD
Road losses to three teams ranked higher by a TD or less, including exceptionally high post-game win probability against #4 on my ballot.

I proudly voted for UND and I may not have put them high enough. The MVFC is the only FCS football conference worth anything this year. This isn't some dumb AP Poll where we rank teams based on how many losses they have.

If they lose one of the next two, they drop. For now, you won't find a better set of results from the long list of winning teams beating nobodies. Might as well fill their spot with Valdosta State if all you care about is record.

Good post! If UNI played at UND this week I’d call it a tossup. On the road it’s a different story. UND hasn’t been able to win on the road against a good team. That’s their issue! At home I think they could beat almost any FCS team in the country. Personally, I don’t care if they are ranked and I enjoy seeing them at the bottom of the MVFC standings but if I was placing bets....

[atthewbon]

Is this post satire? Because if it is for real, this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. From what i gather, you think an argument can be made that the Missouri Valley Conference is so superior to the rest of FCS that the last place team is still better than the vast majority of the other 117 schools. Wow just wow, l don't think SEC fans are that conceited.

The MVFC appears really good this year. The bottom five teams in the conference (those with a losing conference record looked pretty damn good before conference play).

Indiana st- lost to fbs, beat eastern Illinois (nothing special), beat EKU (AGS #26 on the road)
Western Illinois- lost to fbs, blown out by #13 Montana (before the injuries), lost by 6 to #5 EWU
Illinois st- destroyed non scholarship butler, beat EIU, and lost to a fbs team
North Dakota- lost to fbs, destroyed Idaho st (bad big sky team), destroyed non scholarship Drake
Youngstown- lost to fbs, beat #22 UIW

Excluding the fbs losses the 5 worst team in the MVFC went a combined 7-2 vs the FCS (which includes 4 games against "top teams," both losses were to top 15 teams, in fact those were the only two losses the conference had against all other fcs teams this year I believe).The bottom MVFC teams aren't necessarily better than the majority of the other 117 schools but they are probably better than more than half of them. Again I don't think this means the teams should be ranked in the top 25 but it wouldn't be crazy to say all 5 of these teams are in the 25-40 range of the fcs (which would be better than the majority of the fcs). This is probably a just this year thing which has admittedly been an odd year across all of college football and its obviously a small sample size. Plus this narrative could change come playoff time but the MVFC looks really really good right now.

[mvemjsunpx]

Previous week in parentheses…


1. Sam Houston St. (1)
2. North Dakota St. (2)
3. Eastern Washington (6)
4. Montana St. (7)
5. Northern Iowa (11)
6. Villanova (4)
7. James Madison (8)
8. UC Davis (8)
9. East Tennessee St. (9)
10. Princeton (10)
11. Southeastern Louisiana (12)
12. Southern Illinois (3)
13. South Dakota St. (13)
14. Dartmouth (24)
15. Sacramento St. (15)
16. Missouri St. (16)
17. William & Mary (NR)
18. Kennesaw St. (18)
19. Tennessee-Martin (17)
20. VMI (20)
21. Weber St. (NR)
22. Harvard (14)
23. Montana (19)
24. Tennessee-Chattanooga (22)
25. Jackson St. (25)

Dropped - Mercer (21), Columbia (23)


W - William & Mary
L - Duquesne

[Chalupa Batman]

Previous week in parentheses…


1. Sam Houston St. (1)
2. North Dakota St. (2)
3. Eastern Washington (6)
4. Montana St. (7)
5. Northern Iowa (11)
6. Villanova (4)
7. James Madison (8)
8. UC Davis (8)
9. East Tennessee St. (9)
10. Princeton (10)
11. Southeastern Louisiana (12)
12. Southern Illinois (3)
13. South Dakota St. (13)
14. Dartmouth (24)
15. Sacramento St. (15)
16. Missouri St. (16)
17. William & Mary (NR)
18. Kennesaw St. (18)
19. Tennessee-Martin (17)
20. VMI (20)
21. Weber St. (NR)
22. Harvard (14)
23. Montana (19)
24. Tennessee-Chattanooga (22)
25. Jackson St. (25)

Dropped - Mercer (21), Columbia (23)


W - William & Mary
L - Duquesne

Villanova only dropped 2 spots?

[HensRock]

So last week's poll will go down as the only AGS weekly poll without at least 3 CAA teams. Back to 3 now with addition of W&M. xnodx

[mvemjsunpx]

Villanova only dropped 2 spots?

I felt a little weird about that, but I still think Nova should be ahead of JMU (roughly equal resumes, H2H win). And I didn't want to drop JMU, like, 10 spots after a comfortable win. Plus, that whole #3-#12 stretch is pretty even.

[Chalupa Batman]

I felt a little weird about that, but I still think Nova should be ahead of JMU (roughly equal resumes, H2H win). And I didn't want to drop JMU, like, 10 spots after a comfortable win. Plus, that whole #3-#12 stretch is pretty even.

I get your reasoning, and it would make more sense if they lost a squeaker but the way they lost was baaaaad. And besides a few weeks removed from the result it’s okay to have JMU above Villanova. H2H is more for keeping track of who’s ahead in standings, and as far as rankings it’s a data point to separate teams you are having a hard time differentiating between.

[Puddin Tane]

Is this post satire? Because if it is for real, this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. From what i gather, you think an argument can be made that the Missouri Valley Conference is so superior to the rest of FCS that the last place team is still better than the vast majority of the other 117 schools. Wow just wow, l don't think SEC fans are that conceited.

they are the only real conference, dontcha know?

[Gil Dobie]

Dartmouth still getting votes with a loss to Columbia and narrow win over Valpo.

[Hammerhead]

They are a lot like the Vikings. Lots of talent and no real tangible results. They are not good in the big moments.

UND and the Vikings also have coaches who make strange decisions sometimes. I've been a Vikings fan since 1977 so I've seen lots of disappointment.

[caribbeanhen]

Previous week in parentheses…


1. Sam Houston St. (1)
2. North Dakota St. (2)
3. Eastern Washington (6)
4. Montana St. (7)
5. Northern Iowa (11)
6. Villanova (4)
7. James Madison (8)
8. UC Davis (8)
9. East Tennessee St. (9)
10. Princeton (10)
11. Southeastern Louisiana (12)
12. Southern Illinois (3)
13. South Dakota St. (13)
14. Dartmouth (24)
15. Sacramento St. (15)
16. Missouri St. (16)
17. William & Mary (NR)
18. Kennesaw St. (18)
19. Tennessee-Martin (17)
20. VMI (20)
21. Weber St. (NR)
22. Harvard (14)
23. Montana (19)
24. Tennessee-Chattanooga (22)
25. Jackson St. (25)

Dropped - Mercer (21), Columbia (23)


W - William & Mary
L - Duquesne


good job on the Ivies

[kdinva]

1: Sam Houston Bearkats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: James Madison Dukes
4: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: Southern Illinois Salukis
8: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
9: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
10: UC Davis Aggies
11: Montana Grizzlies
12: Kennesaw State Owls
13: Virginia Military Institute Keydets
14: Northern Iowa Panthers
15: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
16: Villanova Wildcats
17: Sac State Hornets
18: Chattanooga Mocs
19: Missouri State Bears
20: South Dakota Coyotes
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Jackson State Tigers
23: William & Mary Tribe
24: Incarnate Word Cardinals
25: Mercer Bears

The Most Significant Win: William & Mary Tribe
The Most Significant Loss: Rhode Island Rams

[JayJ79]

Why are there 5 points for UND? C'mon people, they've lost 5 games.......
I dunno, I bet they could win a game against many of the non-MVFC teams in the bottom half of the poll and/or the ORV category

[Houndawg]

Is this post satire? Because if it is for real, this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. From what i gather, you think an argument can be made that the Missouri Valley Conference is so superior to the rest of FCS that the last place team is still better than the vast majority of the other 117 schools. Wow just wow, l don't think SEC fans are that conceited.

UND would kick a mudhole in Kennesaw's ass and stomp it dryxcoffeex

[POD Knows]

UND would kick a mudhole in Kennesaw's ass and stomp it dryxcoffeex
They would. I agree. Although UND would probably get up by a couple TDs and then try and run a double reverse pass and the TE that was throwing the ball would toss a pick 6 and then on the kickoff they would try a hidden ball trick that goes completely awry and KSU scoops it up for another turnover pic and you would have a new ballgame.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

They would. I agree. Although UND would probably get up by a couple TDs and then try and run a double reverse pass and the TE that was throwing the ball would toss a pick 6 and then on the kickoff they would try a hidden ball trick that goes completely awry and KSU scoops it up for another turnover pic and you would have a new ballgame.

Sounds pretty fun to watch if you are not a UND fan. xlolx

[POD Knows]

Sounds pretty fun to watch if you are not a UND fan. xlolx
Didn’t they run a double reverse on 4th and short against Richmond that one year. It was something goofy s
and yea, it must be tough to be a UND fan.