C-USA Hunting for FCS Schools, Who's Most likely to Jump?

[MSUBobcat]

JMU voted for this

JMU voted to enforce this when ODU left

JMU can sit in the pile of **** they created.

I didn't say the bylaw shouldn't be enforced. I just think it would be funny if they use a loophole to get out around the bylaw. I highly doubt the GA is going to want to come back for a special session just to allow JMU to avoid the repercussions of their own decision.

[Puddin Tane]

Hmmm…so would our games with Sammy now turn into money games and they pay us a couple hundred grand to go to Bowers?

or they keep sfa, and cancel all the rest ….

all this is crapping on pretty good rivalries. Oh well, until Lamar enters the idiotic world of small time fbs, we can always look forward to our other natural WACk rivals…Southern Utah and Dixienotdixie St.

Stop the madness

[Puddin Tane]

Granted we have our lone playoff game with UN fricking I for reference, but id much rather fcs playoffs than the Box of Chocolates Bowl in Greenbow, Alabama against Buffalo or eatern cenral west Michigan.

what am i missing? Is there not a place in the world for FCS football? The grass aint always greener!

[Mocs123]

In my opinion if you can get ranked and in the top 25 every few years like App State, Coastal Carolina, and Liberty have done, it's worth it to make the jump. If you can't, say like MSTSU, it's not.

[Mfergy4]

Bison Nation just tweeted a picture of Judy MacLeod, CUSA Commissioner, at Fargo's Hector Airport and mentioned there is an FBS move happening here....anything out there you highly knowledgeable people know about?

[Professor Chaos]

Bison Nation just tweeted a picture of Judy MacLeod, CUSA Commissioner, at Fargo's Hector Airport and mentioned there is an FBS move happening here....anything out there you highly knowledgeable people know about?
I don't claim to be highly knowledgeable about any dealings NDSU has or hasn't had regarding an FBS move but pretty sure the tweet you're referring to was @BisonNation doing some trolling since he's very much opposed to NDSU moving up (or at least thinks there's no way an FBS conference will be convinced to add NDSU).

[EKU05]

Woah! So what happens to the 3 or 4 teams left in the ASUN? xeyebrowx

There are five football schools left (including Austin Peay starting next season), but I'm really hoping that EKU ends up getting a C-USA invite. I think it's a 50/50 proposition at this point.

[MSUBobcat]

Bison Nation just tweeted a picture of Judy MacLeod, CUSA Commissioner, at Fargo's Hector Airport and mentioned there is an FBS move happening here....anything out there you highly knowledgeable people know about?

If you're talking about the tweet I think you are, Judy MacLeod is... a white woman, first off. Also, the sign on the wall says, "Hertz Boston"....

[caribbeanhen]

There are five football schools left (including Austin Peay starting next season), but I'm really hoping that EKU ends up getting a C-USA invite. I think it's a 50/50 proposition at this point.

I think your signature line worked pretty good on the Delaware Bluehens in 1982, But we were really coming back just ran out of time

[Mfergy4]

I don't claim to be highly knowledgeable about any dealings NDSU has or hasn't had regarding an FBS move but pretty sure the tweet you're referring to was @BisonNation doing some trolling since he's very much opposed to NDSU moving up (or at least thinks there's no way an FBS conference will be convinced to add NDSU).




If you're talking about the tweet I think you are, Judy MacLeod is... a white woman, first off. Also, the sign on the wall says, "Hertz Boston"....

Thanks, I was very skeptical as the person looked very male to me, also. Missed the the Boston Hertz Sign....old man eyes.

[Laker]

Did anyone actually officially move today at the FBS or FCS level? If they did I missed the story.

[ElCid]

My hot take was that it was a pretty ****ty thing to do. After looking into it a bit more, it appears that IS in their bylaws so they are well within their rights to enforce the bylaw. Unless there is also specific wording allowing them to cut them out of conference revenue, I don't think they'd be justified in that action, especially since they already have the $1M exit fee coming back to the conference. I thought JMU was moving effective next year, so competitive advantage is moot. Is that not accurate?

I know nothing of the politics of Virginia pertaining to how they treat higher education (i.e. would the General Assembly side with W&M to "punish" JMU), but it seems to me the easiest solution for JMU to do an end-around of this ban is for the Va. General Assembly to table the vote to approve JMU's move until the current sports year is over, call a special session over the summer and formally leave the CAA when they can no longer bar you from the conference championships. There'd have to be some back-room dealings ("yeah, we're coming, but we're not 'officially coming' until June") but would be kinda interesting to see them give the CAA the finger. xlolx

Does the exit fee get bigger the later the announcement is made? Like if less than 6 months notice, or a year notice. That would be interesting to know.

[clenz]

Does the exit fee get bigger the later the announcement is made? Like if less than 6 months notice, or a year notice. That would be interesting to know.
I would bet it does.

Speaking of fees

Has JSU paid the OVC to leave for the ASUN yet?
How much does JSU have to pay the ASUN for leaving?
Plus paying 2 million to get into CUSA?
LUL

[JacksFan40]

Granted we have our lone playoff game with UN fricking I for reference, but id much rather fcs playoffs than the Box of Chocolates Bowl in Greenbow, Alabama against Buffalo or eatern cenral west Michigan.

what am i missing? Is there not a place in the world for FCS football? The grass aint always greener!
Nobody outside of us FCS fans care about the FCS playoffs or who wins the title. When people think of 2007 App State they think of the Michigan upset, almost nobody mentions how they made history and won three titles in a row that year. Hell even with NDSU they're more famous for wins against teams like K-State and Iowa than they are for winning 8 national championships in 10 years or however long it was.

The winner of the least important bowl game like the Camellia Bowl or whatever it is, has better national recognition than whoever wins the FCS outside of NDSU.
Ask App State, Liberty, CCU, and Georgia Southern if they regret moving up to the FBS despite having been powers in the FCS.

[JacksFan40]

I've seen this sentiment going around on SDSUFans, but it might be wise for NDSU and SDSU to jump to FBS as soon as possible. The old FCS powers of App State, Georgia Southern, CCU and others already left years ago, and now we're losing other prominent programs like JMU, JSU, SHSU etc. and they will be replaced by teams like Dixie State, Tarleton State, TAMU-Commerce etc.

The FCS is becoming a glorified D2 outside of the Big Sky and MVFC. I'd rather watch SDSU get into the MWC and play teams like Wyoming, Colorado State, Utah State etc. over the teams we will be playing in 5 years.

[caribbeanhen]

Nobody outside of us FCS fans care about the FCS playoffs or who wins the title. When people think of 2007 App State they think of the Michigan upset, almost nobody mentions how they made history and won three titles in a row that year. Hell even with NDSU they're more famous for wins against teams like K-State and Iowa than they are for winning 8 national championships in 10 years or however long it was.

The winner of the least important bowl game like the Camellia Bowl or whatever it is, has better national recognition than whoever wins the FCS outside of NDSU.
Ask App State, Liberty, CCU, and Georgia Southern if they regret moving up to the FBS despite having been powers in the FCS.

So true, and I'm starting to get it about the U of Delaware, they like it that nobody cares about the football program.

[Reign of Terrier]

Thanks to Reign, PC and Clenz for informing me about the basketball finances. I honestly didn't even know the MVC was that good of a basketball conference. I figured it was a one, sometimes two, bid league. I had no idea that it was typically a top 8-10 conference. That definitely changes the calculus. I basically watch 0 basketball, then fill out a bracket or 2 based on the little blurb that ESPN gives about each team and.... I'm generally out of contention in my pools by the Elite Eight at best, more likely the Sweet Sixteen. xlolx

For some reason this ended up in the post. Ignore this comment, I'm too lazy to fix it and I think if I delete it'll pop back up in my next post


Nobody outside of us FCS fans care about the FCS playoffs or who wins the title. When people think of 2007 App State they think of the Michigan upset, almost nobody mentions how they made history and won three titles in a row that year. Hell even with NDSU they're more famous for wins against teams like K-State and Iowa than they are for winning 8 national championships in 10 years or however long it was.

The winner of the least important bowl game like the Camellia Bowl or whatever it is, has better national recognition than whoever wins the FCS outside of NDSU.
Ask App State, Liberty, CCU, and Georgia Southern if they regret moving up to the FBS despite having been powers in the FCS.

This guy gets it.

I'm here because I like my team and I'm invested in FCS football because I'm one of the weirdos (the only one?) who has been on this site for almost half my life. I don't care about national recognition for FCS programs because that's not the point of FCS. I care about an entertaining product, which does not exist right now, and it'll get much worse with all the teams moving up. The only remedy is for the other teams who have the means and aspirations (NDSU, SDSU, etc) to move up.

Literally no one cares that Wofford beat App State two weeks after the Michigan upset. But Wofford does! And that's kind of how FCS should work. If you don't think you, your team should be in the FBS.

[Laker]

So true, and I'm starting to get it about the U of Delaware, they like it that nobody cares about the football program.

I'm amazed that the Blue Hens haven't moved up. I grew up hearing about them- I used to have David Nelson's book about the Wing T. Tubby Raymond won Lambert Cup after Lambert Cup. Over 700 wins as a program.

[caribbeanhen]

I'm amazed that the Blue Hens haven't moved up. I grew up hearing about them- I used to have David Nelson's book about the Wing T. Tubby Raymond won Lambert Cup after Lambert Cup. Over 700 wins as a program.

smallest crowd in like 54 years last Saturday, boring product, boring coach, and you know what..... The CAA is just putrid and not getting any better.

Lot's of long time season ticket holders are not renewing ..... The Board of Trustee's has no plan what so ever to go FBS

[Reign of Terrier]

Wasn't it a thing a few years ago (like 10 years ago) about how old the fanbase was for Delaware?

[caribbeanhen]

Wasn't it a thing a few years ago (like 10 years ago) about how old the fanbase was for Delaware?

it's always been a thing,,,, but you know what, when I watch FCS games I see lots of old timers in the stands everywhere

but sure enough, the younger generation has turned their backs on Delaware football... We need to bring KC Keeler back to pump some life and talent into the program

[Daytripper]

it's always been a thing,,,, but you know what, when I watch FCS games I see lots of old timers in the stands everywhere

but sure enough, the younger generation has turned their backs on Delaware football... We need to bring KC Keeler back to pump some life and talent into the program

Thems fightin' words.


I'm interested to see how Keeler feels about this FBS move. He has ALWAYS spoke negatively about the FBS and bowl games. He has consistently said "what's the point of playing if you aren't playing to win a national championship?" I have a feeling he is is not real enthused about this.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Nobody outside of us FCS fans care about the FCS playoffs or who wins the title. When people think of 2007 App State they think of the Michigan upset, almost nobody mentions how they made history and won three titles in a row that year. Hell even with NDSU they're more famous for wins against teams like K-State and Iowa than they are for winning 8 national championships in 10 years or however long it was.

The winner of the least important bowl game like the Camellia Bowl or whatever it is, has better national recognition than whoever wins the FCS outside of NDSU.
Ask App State, Liberty, CCU, and Georgia Southern if they regret moving up to the FBS despite having been powers in the FCS.

CCU, Liberty, Georgia Southern and Georgia State weren't even THAT GOOD in FCS and look where they are now as programs. As much as I love this level, it appears most of the schools that have moved up recently made the right move.

[BurialGround]

CCU, Liberty, Georgia Southern and Georgia State weren't even THAT GOOD in FCS and look where they are now as programs. As much as I love this level, it appears most of the schools that have moved up recently made the right move.

The others I can agree with... but Georgia Southern had six national titles...

[Professor Chaos]

CCU, Liberty, Georgia Southern and Georgia State weren't even THAT GOOD in FCS....
xeyebrowx

One of those programs is very much not like the others when it comes to FCS success...

[Mocs123]

CCU, Liberty, Georgia Southern and Georgia State weren't even THAT GOOD in FCS and look where they are now as programs. As much as I love this level, it appears most of the schools that have moved up recently made the right move.

You might can say that about the others, but Georgia Southern was a fantastic FCS program. The program started in 1984 and has 6 FCS National Championships, were runner up 2 times, and have 19 FCS Playoff Appearances with a record of 45-13 in the playoffs. Along with NDSU and App St, they have to be one of the best FCS programs of the last 35-40 years.

[caribbeanhen]

Thems fightin' words.


I'm interested to see how Keeler feels about this FBS move. He has ALWAYS spoke negatively about the FBS and bowl games. He has consistently said "what's the point of playing if you aren't playing to win a national championship?" I have a feeling he is is not real enthused about this.

He’s probably torn about it

[Chalupa Batman]

CCU, Liberty, Georgia Southern and Georgia State weren't even THAT GOOD in FCS and look where they are now as programs. As much as I love this level, it appears most of the schools that have moved up recently made the right move.

CCU still wasn't really established yet, but they were coming off a couple really good years and quickly building something. Saying Georgia Southern wasn't even that good is like saying Kobe Bryant wasn't that good of a basketball player.

[unknown3]

Thems fightin' words.


I'm interested to see how Keeler feels about this FBS move. He has ALWAYS spoke negatively about the FBS and bowl games. He has consistently said "what's the point of playing if you aren't playing to win a national championship?" I have a feeling he is is not real enthused about this.

We heard that same talk from all schools... before they moved up. Georgia Southern, App State, Coastal, ODU... hell bowls may be what you need to boost your attendance over time. Realistically you get far more fanfare from even being in a NY6 bowl than winning an FCS championship.

[Libertine]

Realistically you get far more fanfare from even being in a NY6 bowl than winning an FCS championship.

It's even worse than that in my opinion. With the championship game sandwiched by the NY6 bowls, I think that FCS schools actually get more fanfare playing in the August FCS Kickoff game than they do by winning the title.

[JacksFan40]

CCU, Liberty, Georgia Southern and Georgia State weren't even THAT GOOD in FCS and look where they are now as programs. As much as I love this level, it appears most of the schools that have moved up recently made the right move.

Georgia Southern was six time national champions. CCU was seven time Big South champions and were consistently in the playoffs and in the title discussion. Liberty won eight Big South titles and was frequently a ranked team, though they had little postseason success. Georgia State was barely in the FCS, much like Charlotte it was obvious they intended to go FBS the moment they founded their program.

[clenz]

Nobody outside of us FCS fans care about the FCS playoffs or who wins the title. When people think of 2007 App State they think of the Michigan upset, almost nobody mentions how they made history and won three titles in a row that year. Hell even with NDSU they're more famous for wins against teams like K-State and Iowa than they are for winning 8 national championships in 10 years or however long it was.

The winner of the least important bowl game like the Camellia Bowl or whatever it is, has better national recognition than whoever wins the FCS outside of NDSU.
Ask App State, Liberty, CCU, and Georgia Southern if they regret moving up to the FBS despite having been powers in the FCS.
This isn't an incorrect take.

I love the FCS. It's great for the level it is. It has it's purpose and it serves that purpose so amazingly well.

Having said that, it doesn't fit all programs. I can't fault anyone for thinking being a G5 program is better for their athletic department. I already broke down all of the move ups and outside of UMASS and Idaho (if you want to include 2021 UCONN and ignore the 00s then fine) have seen significant upgrades in their athletic department profile. The reality is the lowest rated bowl games each year out do every FCS game ever played outside a small handful of games ever played.

I've said this before but I've gone from "never leave FCS" to "I'd be okay with a G5 slot in the right situation. UNI has been in the FCS since it was formed and still doesn't have a title. It's the best program to never win a title. It's a top 5-10 program all time in the FCS. If UNI was going to win a title it would have happened in the 40 years we've been FCS. I will always want a national title and want UNI to push for one. The reality of college football the hope of winning some generic December Bowl game on ESPN2 is honestly as good/better than hoping you get a favorable couple bounces of the ball and seeding right to make a run to the quarters or semis. The reality is the FCS is just like the FBS. There is maybe 4 teams in any given year that actually have a shot to win the title. Everyone else is just hoping for a run to the quarters or semis in front of 7000 people. The idea that some people don't despise the "reward" of a trip to a warmer place and a game on ESPN is completely understandable.

[Sader87]

Wasn't it a thing a few years ago (like 10 years ago) about how old the fanbase was for Delaware?

Holy Cross fans say collectively: "Hold our old beers...." xdrunkyx

[HensRock]

The reality is the FCS is just like the FBS. There is maybe 4 teams in any given year that actually have a shot to win the title.

I usually agree with you, Clenz. But this is simply not true.
Teams outside the top 4 still get to play for a championship and that's the difference. It's the "Cinderella Factor" that makes the NCAA Basketball Tournament so great.
We have that at FCS. FBS does NOT.

Sure, it's been a while, but unseeded teams have played in and even won the FCS Championship. As recently as 2016, YSU was in the championship game unseeded.
You have to go back to 2009 to find a team outside of the top 4 to win it all and that would be #5 Seed EWU beating my #3 Delaware.
In 2008 Unseeded Richmond beat #4 Montana for the title
And the year before that, it was unseeded Appalachian State over unseeded Delaware

A lot of unseeded teams made it to championship game in the 2000's - Including your UNI Panthers in '05! That would not have happened at FBS.
JMU was on the road in every playoff game when they won it all in '04.

Sure it's rare, but it CAN and DOES happen. And that hope makes a world of difference between FCS and FBS in my opinion.

[Professor Chaos]

I usually agree with you, Clenz. But this is simply not true.
Teams outside the top 4 still get to play for a championship and that's the difference. It's the "Cinderella Factor" that makes the NCAA Basketball Tournament so great.
We have that at FCS. FBS does NOT.

Sure, it's been a while, but unseeded teams have played in and even won the FCS Championship. As recently as 2016, YSU was in the championship game unseeded.
You have to go back to 2009 to find a team outside of the top 4 to win it all and that would be #5 Seed EWU beating my #3 Delaware.
In 2008 Unseeded Richmond beat #4 Montana for the title
And the year before that, it was unseeded Appalachian State over unseeded Delaware

A lot of unseeded teams made it to championship game in the 2000's - Including your UNI Panthers in '05! That would not have happened at FBS.
JMU was on the road in every playoff game when they won it all in '04.

Sure it's rare, but it CAN and DOES happen. And that hope makes a world of difference between FCS and FBS in my opinion.
To add to that we don't usually know who those 4 teams are to start the year. Sam Houston didn't even get votes in the final 2019 AGS poll. To start the 2021 fall season we had Delaware, UND, and Monmouth in the top 10 of the AGS poll.

[FUBeAR]

To add to that we don't usually know who those 4 teams are to start the year. Sam Houston didn't even get votes in the final 2019 AGS poll. To start the 2021 fall season we had Delaware, UND, and Monmouth in the top 10 of the AGS poll.Prof…FUBeAR is curious and you probably can answer this quicker than I can research it. Since the field expanded from 16 to 24 (giving 8 seeded Teams bye weeks in Round 1) AND “Regionalization” has been a ‘thing,’ how many unseeded Teams have won the championship & how many have made the Finals and Semi-Finals, and Quarterfinals???…as far as you care to take your response…should you choose to accept this mission. This post will not self-destruct in 5 seconds.

[kdinva]

Teams outside the top 4 still get to play for a championship and that's the difference.....Sure it's rare, but it CAN and DOES happen. And that hope makes a world of difference between FCS and FBS in my opinion.

xbowx xhighfivex

[CockyGeek]

JSU is having a press conference today. We gone.

[clenz]

I usually agree with you, Clenz. But this is simply not true.
Teams outside the top 4 still get to play for a championship and that's the difference. It's the "Cinderella Factor" that makes the NCAA Basketball Tournament so great.
We have that at FCS. FBS does NOT.

Sure, it's been a while, but unseeded teams have played in and even won the FCS Championship. As recently as 2016, YSU was in the championship game unseeded.
You have to go back to 2009 to find a team outside of the top 4 to win it all and that would be #5 Seed EWU beating my #3 Delaware.
In 2008 Unseeded Richmond beat #4 Montana for the title
And the year before that, it was unseeded Appalachian State over unseeded Delaware

A lot of unseeded teams made it to championship game in the 2000's - Including your UNI Panthers in '05! That would not have happened at FBS.
JMU was on the road in every playoff game when they won it all in '04.

Sure it's rare, but it CAN and DOES happen. And that hope makes a world of difference between FCS and FBS in my opinion.
Seeds didn't exist in any real form until the playoffs expanded, and then expanded again. Was there official seeds prior to going to 20? Even then only the top 5 were seeded before going to 8 when it moved to 24

You kinda made my point about the reality that each season there really is only 4, maybe 5, teams with a realistic chance of winning the title. One time in 12 seasons has an unseeded team made the title game? Since 09 (which is pre seeding IIRC) no teams that weren't seeded have won the title.

Sure teams "get to play" for the title, but that's my point that you missed.

4-5 teams per year realistically are going to be a title challenging team (just like the FBS)
10ish other teams are going to go into the season with hopes/dreams of being a quarter-finals/semi-finalist type team (just like the FBS will have 8-10 teams come the end of the season that are jockeying for that "next group" of teams.
Then you have 15-20 teams that know they have to win their conference, or have an amazing season, just to get a chance to be a Thanksgiving, or second round team.

"They get a chance" but at the end of the season what is difference between that chance and losing in front of 3500 people the Saturday after Thanksgiving and getting paid to go to a bowl game that will be seen by a million and a half or two million people on ESPN.

Using the 05 trip for UNI doesn't help you case. That 05 UNI team was 7-4 in the regular season. It would not have gotten into the playoffs if it didn't somehow win a 3 way tie breaker for the autobid. UNI, that year, wasn't one of the two best teams in the country. Isn't the goal of a national champion to crown the "best team" not that team that got lucky late in the season and capitalized on other coaches making horrific coaching decisions to hand them the game (which is what Texas State did to UNI)?

To 90% of the general public fans winning a bowl game would hold more weight than winning an FCS title. To those who closely follow the team? To those who are willing to post on a site like AGS about FCS football? Sure, the bias for FCS playoffs is built in.

I promise you UNI would get more media coverage, more fans watching the game, and more donors if they were to play in a bowl game than a quarter final game in Brookings, South Dakota in front of maybe 10,000 that you have to have stream the game to watch. No media stations/papers are sending anyone to cover that game for UNI. Put UNI in a bowl in game in New Orleans or somewhere else? They'll care.

I'm fine staying FCS. I'm not demeaning the FCS. I'm not saying it sucks. None of that. I'm simply doing what the built in bias people on a site like this aren't willing to do - admit that these "meaningles bowl games" are better for exposure and athletic departments overall. What reason does a 6 win Big South team have to really try come week 11 to get win 7 other than pride? They aren't getting into the playoffs. A 7th win gets you a better bowl bid, and locks you into a bowl bid.

No one gives a flying **** ASU won titles in 05, 06, 07. ASU beaing Michigan in August? That matters. ASU winning bowl games? That matters to them. Outside of fans of the FCS, or people who followed GSU in the 80s through early 00s, no one gives a **** (let alone could tell you) how many titles GSU has.

NDSU won 9 titles in 11 years. Nationally other than "look how dominant they are" no one gives a **** outside of the FCS. NDSU wins a couple bowl games and their respect will quadruple similar to that of ASU, CSU, and GSU.

Is it great for us to "play for the true national title"? Yes. I don't disagree. To act like the reality of the FCS is any different than the reality of the FBS for non-power programs is short sided through tinted glasses.

[F'N Hawks]

Of course a program would get more from playing in a bowl game vs a quarterfinal game of the playoffs. Absurd comparison.

I will ask this: does App State go FBS if they don't win three national championships? Beating Michigan didn't allow them to say "yep, now we are going FBS".

[F'N Hawks]

I also think we greatly exaggerate the importance of winning one bowl game in mid-December and the affect it has on a schools "national reputation". Georgia State has won bowl games, Wyoming, Florida International....and so on. They have ZERO national reputation and following.

Now, to be part of the FBS Club and say you're FBS I understand. The label helps greatly. The bowl wins, not so much.

[clenz]

Of course a program would get more from playing in a bowl game vs a quarterfinal game of the playoffs. Absurd comparison.

I will ask this: does App State go FBS if they don't win three national championships? Beating Michigan didn't allow them to say "yep, now we are going FBS".
I've said it before and I'll continue to say it

Being good isn't a prerequisite for moving up.

Texas State had 3 total playoff appearances in their history and 05 was their only trip after the 80s. They moved up before anyone else.

Liberty had zero playoff wins and moved up (though they did it differently)

Buffalo was a Dayton rule program that went winless more than they won more than 3 games before going FBS.

[clenz]

I also think we greatly exaggerate the importance of winning one bowl game in mid-December and the affect it has on a schools "national reputation". Georgia State has won bowl games, Wyoming, Florida International....and so on. They have ZERO national reputation and following.

Now, to be part of the FBS Club and say you're FBS I understand. The label helps greatly. The bowl wins, not so much.
Bowl wins carry significantly greater weight than an FCS title.

[F'N Hawks]

Bowl wins carry significantly greater weight than an FCS title.

What metric have you seen that proves this?

[taper]

We're at the point where the CUSA needs FCS teams to move up more than those FCS teams need to move. If the rumors of the MAC stealing another 2 are true, the CUSA needs a minimum of 5 and would like 7+ to stabilize. There might not be that many ready to go. With that advantage in negotiations, what would you demand if you were the FCS school?
Assuming they're able to collect, the departing members owe the CUSA somewhere between $10-30M in exit fees.(sources vary) I would ask for all of that to go to the new arrivals to upgrade facilities. Would settle for a double or triple share split with the remaining 3.
Exit fees are waived if a new arrival leaves while the CUSA is at fewer than 12 members.
Immediate equal share of media money.
Host a conference championship going forward, depending on appropriate facilities.
CUSA pays any exit fees from existing conference.
Featured in all media exhibits.

Anything else?

[Professor]

Seeds didn't exist in any real form until the playoffs expanded, and then expanded again. Was there official seeds prior to going to 20? Even then only the top 5 were seeded before going to 8 when it moved to 24

You kinda made my point about the reality that each season there really is only 4, maybe 5, teams with a realistic chance of winning the title. One time in 12 seasons has an unseeded team made the title game? Since 09 (which is pre seeding IIRC) no teams that weren't seeded have won the title.

Sure teams "get to play" for the title, but that's my point that you missed.

4-5 teams per year realistically are going to be a title challenging team (just like the FBS)
10ish other teams are going to go into the season with hopes/dreams of being a quarter-finals/semi-finalist type team (just like the FBS will have 8-10 teams come the end of the season that are jockeying for that "next group" of teams.
Then you have 15-20 teams that know they have to win their conference, or have an amazing season, just to get a chance to be a Thanksgiving, or second round team.

"They get a chance" but at the end of the season what is difference between that chance and losing in front of 3500 people the Saturday after Thanksgiving and getting paid to go to a bowl game that will be seen by a million and a half or two million people on ESPN.

Using the 05 trip for UNI doesn't help you case. That 05 UNI team was 7-4 in the regular season. It would not have gotten into the playoffs if it didn't somehow win a 3 way tie breaker for the autobid. UNI, that year, wasn't one of the two best teams in the country. Isn't the goal of a national champion to crown the "best team" not that team that got lucky late in the season and capitalized on other coaches making horrific coaching decisions to hand them the game (which is what Texas State did to UNI)?

To 90% of the general public fans winning a bowl game would hold more weight than winning an FCS title. To those who closely follow the team? To those who are willing to post on a site like AGS about FCS football? Sure, the bias for FCS playoffs is built in.

I promise you UNI would get more media coverage, more fans watching the game, and more donors if they were to play in a bowl game than a quarter final game in Brookings, South Dakota in front of maybe 10,000 that you have to have stream the game to watch. No media stations/papers are sending anyone to cover that game for UNI. Put UNI in a bowl in game in New Orleans or somewhere else? They'll care.

I'm fine staying FCS. I'm not demeaning the FCS. I'm not saying it sucks. None of that. I'm simply doing what the built in bias people on a site like this aren't willing to do - admit that these "meaningles bowl games" are better for exposure and athletic departments overall. What reason does a 6 win Big South team have to really try come week 11 to get win 7 other than pride? They aren't getting into the playoffs. A 7th win gets you a better bowl bid, and locks you into a bowl bid.

No one gives a flying **** ASU won titles in 05, 06, 07. ASU beaing Michigan in August? That matters. ASU winning bowl games? That matters to them. Outside of fans of the FCS, or people who followed GSU in the 80s through early 00s, no one gives a **** (let alone could tell you) how many titles GSU has.

NDSU won 9 titles in 11 years. Nationally other than "look how dominant they are" no one gives a **** outside of the FCS. NDSU wins a couple bowl games and their respect will quadruple similar to that of ASU, CSU, and GSU.

Is it great for us to "play for the true national title"? Yes. I don't disagree. To act like the reality of the FCS is any different than the reality of the FBS for non-power programs is short sided through tinted glasses.


Teams are leaving FCS due to money issues with the playoff structure.

[clenz]

What metric have you seen that proves this?
I mean...we can look at ratings for a start. So from an eyeballs on the program standpoint it's bigger.

We can look at the respect nationally, again looking beyond our tiny little corner of FCS fandom, an FCS national champion will never get the respect a G5 coming off a bowl win has.

Look at the increase in donations I showed earlier and the explosion of budgets that come with it

Again, I'm on the wrong site to be able to have anyone actually believe me. AGS is the 1% of the 1% that is FCS fans. Anyone that cares about the FCS enough to be on a site like AGS is extremely tied to the FCS and largely blind to the talking points about what makes the FCS so great (and again, I love the FCS and what it is).

If bowl games carried less weight. If bowl games didn't help you more than deep playoff runs. If bowl games didn't do anything why aren't more programs scrambling to get into the FCS? Why are programs so willing to hang on to the FBS? The reality is the exposure of being even UMASS is more than 98% of the FCS.

[clenz]

Teams are leaving FCS due to money issues with the playoff structure.
But the playoff structure is amazing and untouchable....so we would be led to believe in this thread.

The reality is the teams looking to leave right now are teams that understand the FCS is splitting within itself even. The FCS has always been cost containment. But it was cost containment compared to the FBS. It is really really really starting to go the way of cost containment against even the rest of the FCS. I despise the fact I'm about to bring up an NDSU talking about, but the majority of the subdivision is "bring you down to our level" rather than "raise our own level".

[UNAPride]

JSU is having a press conference today. We gone.

Yep, so is Sam Houston State.

https://apnews.com/article/college-football-sports-liberty-flames-football-e921a197bbb8aaaec37597f78db9e20a

[Daytripper]

CUSA just posted. It's done. https://conferenceusa.com/news/2021/11/4/general-conference-usa-adds-four-members.aspx

[F'N Hawks]

Clenz, you are combining a whole lot of factors into your assessment and saying a singular "bowl game" achieves all of those. I would argue that simply being "FBS" achieves most all of those.
Do you honestly think Georgia State's bowl win down in the Mobile helped mcuh of anything with that program.....vs.....it simply being FBS and getting the fruits of that label and yes, we also won a bowl game over Western Kentucky?

Also, do you really think schools are going FBS for the right to lose money at a bowl game? Or are they going FBS to make money from the conference payouts, increased exposure in pay games, help increase school enrollment, etc? A bowl game is one very minor thing for a low-end FBS school.

You are trying to create a narrative that we all hate bowl games. It's not that. It's that the bowl games are a cherry on top and a quick shot in the arm. The FBS label is the biggest factor and all that comes with it.

[Professor Chaos]

Prof…FUBeAR is curious and you probably can answer this quicker than I can research it. Since the field expanded from 16 to 24 (giving 8 seeded Teams bye weeks in Round 1) AND “Regionalization” has been a ‘thing,’ how many unseeded Teams have won the championship & how many have made the Finals and Semi-Finals, and Quarterfinals???…as far as you care to take your response…should you choose to accept this mission. This post will not self-destruct in 5 seconds.
Using my stellar wikipedia'ing abilities I have come up with these numbers (only did one pass so might be one or two off for the quarters and semis).

Since 2013 when the field expanded to 24 (excluding spring 2021 when there were only 4 seeds) unseeded teams have made the following rounds:
Quarterfinals: 16 times
Semifinals: 4 times
Final: 1 time
Champion: 0 times

That's in 7 playoffs. So on average 2+ unseeded teams make the quarters and about once every other year an unseeded team makes the semis.

[ST_Lawson]

Lots of interesting pieces to this one. I posted this info over at my own LeatherneckNation, but thought I'd mention them here too.

- Sam Houston State is going to have to do some stadium remodeling. They currently play in a stadium very similar to Hanson Field, but with a bit nicer press box and less seating (holds 12.5k fans) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Bowers_stadium_huntsville_tx_2014.jpg).
- This probably ends (for the forseeable future) the "Battle of the Piney Woods" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Piney_Woods)...the annual rivalry game between SHSU and Stephen F. Austin. It had been the second-longest rivalry in the FCS, and as of 2010, had been held in Houston at NRG stadium in front of generally 25k+ fans. Stephen F. Austin is moving to the WAC like SHSU was originally planning.
- This is also a hit to the ASUN, who had just recently added Jacksonville State and included Liberty as a non-football member. If you include Austin Peay, who has said they're joining in 2022, they have 5 football playing members...which just ain't enough (Austin Peay, Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Kennesaw State, North Alabama). And that's assuming C-USA doesn't invite up someone like Kennesaw State or Eastern Kentucky.
- With news that the CAA (who just lost JMU to the Sun Belt) is possibly targeting the Big South's North Carolina A&T, which would put the Big South at 7 football members...does the Big South and ASUN end up merging to keep enough teams?
- These additions make the "Battle of I-10" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_I-10) annual rivalry game between New Mexico State and UTEP into a conference game (they're only about 40 minutes away from each other (https://goo.gl/maps/3H5z3tBk2iNh4PdY8))

[FUBeAR]

Using my stellar wikipedia'ing abilities I have come up with these numbers (only did one pass so might be one or two off for the quarters and semis).

Since 2013 when the field expanded to 24 (excluding spring 2021 when there were only 4 seeds) unseeded teams have made the following rounds:
Quarterfinals: 16 times
Semifinals: 4 times
Final: 1 time
Champion: 0 times

That's in 7 playoffs. So on average 2+ unseeded teams make the quarters and about once every other year an unseeded team makes the semis.THANKS!

So…7 years of this Playoff Structure x 16 unseeded Teams/Year = 112 ‘chances’ for unseeded Teams…

0 out of 112 = 0 chance (empirically) for an unseeded Team to win the Championship
1 out of 112 = < 1% chance of making it to the Championship game
4 out of 112 = 3.6% chance of making the semi’s
16 out of 112 = 14.3% chance of making the quarterfinals
56 out of 112 = 50% chance of making a Round 2 game

With these stats, the question of causality comes to mind. Are Seeded Teams winning Playoff games at this rate primarily BECAUSE they have a week off and get to play @ home. Or…are they winning at this rate because they are just that much better?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Professor Chaos]

THANKS!

So…7 years of this Playoff Structure x 16 unseeded Teams/Year = 112 ‘chances’ for unseeded Teams…

0 out of 112 = 0 chance (empirically) for an unseeded Team to win the Championship
1 out of 112 = < 1% chance of making it to the Championship game
4 out of 112 = 3.6% chance of making the semi’s
16 out of 112 = 14.3% chance of making the quarterfinals
56 out of 112 = 50% chance of making a Round 2 game

With these stats, the question of causality comes to mind. Are Seeded Teams winning Playoff games at this rate primarily BECAUSE they have a week off and get to play @ home. Or…are they winning at this rate because they are just that much better?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Having a bye week and playing at home is a huge advantage. I believe Sagarin's algorithm would give about a 5-6 point bump to the seeded teams in those scenarios in addition to their normal rating. For the most part they are better teams to begin with so I'd say it's a combination of both but the deck is definitely stacked against unseeded teams in the 24 team format.

And the number of unseeded playoff quarterfinalists may start going down now without Jacksonville St around to hand them out like Halloween candy... ;)

[Libertine]

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it

Being good isn't a prerequisite for moving up.

Texas State had 3 total playoff appearances in their history and 05 was their only trip after the 80s. They moved up before anyone else.

Liberty had zero playoff wins and moved up (though they did it differently)

Buffalo was a Dayton rule program that went winless more than they won more than 3 games before going FBS.

Just to clarify, Liberty had one playoff win (2014 @ JMU) but your larger point is accurate.

[Nor Eastern]

Everyone in the SoCon just got a lot more relevant. ASUN, CAA, and WAC just took a hit that could expand to be almost fatal. Especially for the ASUN.

[Libertine]

ASUN, CAA, and WAC just took a hit that could expand to be almost fatal. Especially for the ASUN.

This take makes no sense.

* The ASUN was -- and, technically, still is -- primarily a basketball conference that lost two members out of 13. Only JSU played ASUN football and that loss, while not small, can be replaced from a numbers perspective pretty quickly.

* The WAC losing NMSU for basketball is as big a loss for the WAC as losing Sam Houston in football but, again, that's two members out of 13. Plus, the WAC already has McNeese and UIW lined up to join as well.

* The idea that JMU was integral to the stability of the CAA is just....I don't know what. Obviously, JMU football was kind of a big deal but it's not like the rest of the conference was just tagging along. In basketball, JMU was one team out of 10 in a conference that could probably entice somebody out of the bloated A-10 or the underexposed America East if they had to.

Yeah, all three conferences took a hit but "almost fatal"? Even if I knew the difference between "almost fatal" and "survivable", I'd say that's a little dramatic.

[Professor]

I mean...we can look at ratings for a start. So from an eyeballs on the program standpoint it's bigger.

We can look at the respect nationally, again looking beyond our tiny little corner of FCS fandom, an FCS national champion will never get the respect a G5 coming off a bowl win has.

Look at the increase in donations I showed earlier and the explosion of budgets that come with it

Again, I'm on the wrong site to be able to have anyone actually believe me. AGS is the 1% of the 1% that is FCS fans. Anyone that cares about the FCS enough to be on a site like AGS is extremely tied to the FCS and largely blind to the talking points about what makes the FCS so great (and again, I love the FCS and what it is).

If bowl games carried less weight. If bowl games didn't help you more than deep playoff runs. If bowl games didn't do anything why aren't more programs scrambling to get into the FCS? Why are programs so willing to hang on to the FBS? The reality is the exposure of being even UMASS is more than 98% of the FCS.

When JMU is putting out figures that it's losing 600 to 700k on deep playoff runs, it makes FBS GS look like the way to go.

The NCAA is going to have to fix that payout issues.

Even the Celebration Bowl works for the FCS HBCUs

[F'N Hawks]

When JMU is putting out figures that it's losing 600 to 700k on deep playoff runs, it makes FBS GS look like the way to go.

The NCAA is going to have to fix that payout issues.

Even the Celebration Bowl works for the FCS HBCUs

That was definitely alarming to hear. I assumed that the NCAA took care of everything but there must be optional costs involved that teams opt to incur.

[clenz]

That was definitely alarming to hear. I assumed that the NCAA took care of everything but there must be optional costs involved that teams opt to incur.

Takes care of things? You mean themselves.


The ncaa takes money from schools during the playoffs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BNATION]

I’m so sad

[Professor Chaos]

That was definitely alarming to hear. I assumed that the NCAA took care of everything but there must be optional costs involved that teams opt to incur.
I'd be curious to see the accounting behind that. The NCAA takes the larger amount of either the host school's bid amount or 75% of the net gate. That's not gross gate but net gate so ticket revenue minus expenses. So unless JMU is massively overbidding (which is really dumb if they're seeded) or spending a lot of money on things like sending more than the NCAA covered travel party to road games I don't see how they could lose money, much less 600k, on the playoffs.

[Chalupa Batman]

I'd be curious to see the accounting behind that. The NCAA takes the larger amount of either the host school's bid amount or 75% of the net gate. That's not gross gate but net gate so ticket revenue minus expenses. So unless JMU is massively overbidding (which is really dumb if they're seeded) or spending a lot of money on things like sending more than the NCAA covered travel party to road games I don't see how they could lose money, much less 600k, on the playoffs.

Do seeded teams still have to bid for home games? I thought I had heard one time that if you’re seeded you still have to make the minimum bid each round to be able to host.

Edit: Also, what are the minimum bids for each round?

[Professor Chaos]

Do seeded teams still have to bid for home games? I thought I had heard one time that if you’re seeded you still have to make the minimum bid each round to be able to host.
Yep, they just need to make the minimum bid. It might be higher now but that used to be 30k for a 2nd round game, 40k for a quarterfinal, and 50k for a semifinal. I don't even think a first round game has a minimum bid requirement. Of course I think you have to submit bids in early November so some potentially seeded teams probably bid more than the minimum just in case they aren't seeded but I would still assume JMU could outbid most schools in their area even if they bid conservatively since they draw better.

[taper]

Do seeded teams still have to bid for home games? I thought I had heard one time that if you’re seeded you still have to make the minimum bid each round to be able to host.

Edit: Also, what are the minimum bids for each round?
Seeded teams always get a home game, but it's still a good idea to submit a reasonable bid just in case. I don't remember the exact details but one year a school(Georgia Southern?) mistakenly thought you bid each round separately and only put in for round one. Another didn't bid at all, and another lowballed it and went on the road to a team they easily could have outbid.

[Reign of Terrier]

So, I want to say, I pretty much agree with everything Clenz has said so far. I also am a fan of an FCS team that is in those "one of the best to not when a championship" category [please don't look at what we've done since 2019], and I have to say, one of the things that these elite 4-5 teams don't realize the FCS is inferior relative to the FBS is the fact that your season feels like a total failure if you don't win a championship or advance to a certain point in the playoffs.

If you're NDSU, SDSU, SHSU, JMU, or EWU, you probably don't understand that (SHSU definitely does, but they probably wouldn't resonate as much over time, but I digress) the point in the playoffs they take for granted as almost a given as fans (semis, championships, heck even quarterfinals) is in many ways the highest point most programs will achieve.

Now, my unpopular take is that this has gotten worse over the last decade or so. I think there's been an arms race of sorts at the FCS level among many of these teams (whether it be facilities or paying coaches). Admittedly, this is a gut intuition and basically informed by this:

My team entered the fold of the FCS/1-AA and was easily a top 8 program in the 2000s. I remember players, I remember scheme, I remember a lot of stuff, and to be completely honest with you, I think Wofford circa 2016-2019 was probably the best 4 years of Wofford football, and if those teams lined up against any in the late 2000s or that mythical 8-0 in socon semifinalist team of 2003, they would win. Those of you reading this would probably look at the playoff advancement of that team and not believe me (even though I could probably find you players who played in those 2000s teams who'd tell you our players are more talented today than they were then), but that's what I think.

And that raises the question: why don't we not have the wins to show for it? Well, it's two-fold: the playoffs are ungodly big, and a couple programs have just armed themselves to be superstar relative to everyone else. I wasn't shocked that Wofford, say, lost to NDSU in 2017, I was shocked by the manner. That 2017 team was better than the 2012 team, at least on offense, but we were boys among men in Fargo. Wofford's not the only team that hasn't kept pace. I'd say it's most of the subdivision.

As a fan of a school that is also big in March Madness, I can say that the comparisons between the FCS and this aren't good. I mean, I love March Madness, but I actually kind of hate the FCS playoffs. It's not because my team never wins it all, but that the tournament is not inclusive enough to invoke that underdog spirit of MM (24 is an awkward number), and at the same times it does a good job of putting the thumb on the scales against the visiting/lower seeded team that just wasn't true when the field was 16 (more travel, especially cross country travel, more games, etc). All while this sense of zero-sum-ness lingers over the whole damn thing.

I mean, unless you're in one of those "lesser" conferences like the Pioneer or NEC who doesn't expect to win a national title, we're all given this illusion that "you can do it!" when that's just not true. With MM, if you're a midmajor, unless you're a super duper successful one like Gonzaga, you know you're in the same position, so just winning games is fun. Heck, I forget we lost to Kentucky in 2019, but remembering the Seton Hall game is just fun to me. With FCS I remember the losses (and they sting a lot more) than the wins.

Put simply, I should feel a lot more proud of my team's three-peat of a conference title, even if it's not "the best" conference or whatever. But with the way the FCS is set up, there's not going out on a high note unless you win a national championship or miss the playoffs and win your last game.

So if I had a magic wand and could make the FCS playoffs more entertaining by having some of these super teams move up, yes I would. But if I could use that wand to have a format (a bowl system omg!) to where I can feel more proud of my team when they finish 9-3 or 10-2 as the mediocre South Carolina fans who finished 7-6, hell yeah I would take that. The problem is that the latter is more fundamental to the subdivision than the former, and would actually require a magic wand.

[caribbeanhen]

I’m so sad

so sad so sad
sometimes she feels so sad
alone in an apartment she dwells
for the man of her dreams To break her spell

[katss07]

so sad so sad
sometimes she feels so sad
alone in an apartment she dwells
for the man of her dreams To break her spell
Keeler HATES toilet bowl games. Gotta wonder how he feels about his move. UD should send him a check.

[HensRock]

Seeds didn't exist in any real form until the playoffs expanded, and then expanded again. Was there official seeds prior to going to 20? Even then only the top 5 were seeded before going to 8 when it moved to 24

Wrong again. Seeds have always existed for the I-AA/FCS tournament in one form or another. And at least the top 4 have always been identified.
That's what we're talking about here, right? Those top 4 would be the ones going to the "playoffs" at the FBS level. No one else goes to the dance.

Before 9/11 prompted regionalization, they used to seed the entire 16-team field. #1 hosted #16, etc. no matter where they were located. I fondly remember #15 Delaware travelling to Missoula, MT and knocking off #2 Montana in the first round in 1993. Yeah, I'm showing my age.

So, That means your great 2007 Appalachian State team that beat Michigan, would not have been invited to play for a national championship that year.

Neither would:
Georgia Southern in 1985
Youngstown State 1991
Marshall 1992
Youngstown again in 93
Montana in 1995
Youngstown again in 97
UMass in 1998
Western Kentucky in 2002
JMU in 2004
Richmond in 2008
Eastern Washington in 2010

So you're saying none of those team ACTUALLY deserved to win a national championship those years. Is that what you're saying? Those were all flukes, because everyone knows a committee is certainly capable of choosing the best 4 teams in the country that should compete for the title.

I don't expect you to back off from your position. I'll just agree to disagree.

[Daytripper]

Keeler HATES toilet bowl games. Gotta wonder how he feels about his move. UD should send him a check.

I was over on the Mocs board and didn't see you there. ???

[katss07]

I was over on the Mocs board and didn't see you there. ???
You’ll have to send me the link, I’d love to sign up.

[caribbeanhen]

Keeler HATES toilet bowl games. Gotta wonder how he feels about his move. UD should send him a check.

UD should bring KC home again

[SDFS]

Time to get a Northern G-5 conference going.... too may schools have left FCS.

[caribbeanhen]

Everyone in the SoCon just got a lot more relevant. ASUN, CAA, and WAC just took a hit that could expand to be almost fatal. Especially for the ASUN.

Did the ASUN even rise yet?

Tomorrow never knows how this is all going to end

[NY Crusader 2010]

JMU voted for this

JMU voted to enforce this when ODU left

JMU can sit in the pile of **** they created.

NAILED IT!! NAILED IT!!

All the national hoopla over this is a total NOTHING BURGER. Even USA Today was crying over this.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Time to get a Northern G-5 conference going.... too may schools have left FCS.

My idea:

CUSA "Northwest"

1) UTEP
2) New Mexico State
3) Montana
4) Montana State
5) Idaho
6) NDSU
7) SDSU

CUSA Southeast

1) FIU
2) Liberty
3) Louisiana Tech
4) Jacksonville State
5) Sam Houston State
6) Jackson State
7) NC A&T


Tell me this isn't 1000x better than the 8-team "life support conference" that is currently about to take shape.

[Puddin Tane]

Lots of interesting pieces to this one. I posted this info over at my own LeatherneckNation, but thought I'd mention them here too.

- Sam Houston State is going to have to do some stadium remodeling. They currently play in a stadium very similar to Hanson Field, but with a bit nicer press box and less seating (holds 12.5k fans) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Bowers_stadium_huntsville_tx_2014.jpg).
- This probably ends (for the forseeable future) the "Battle of the Piney Woods" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Piney_Woods)...the annual rivalry game between SHSU and Stephen F. Austin. It had been the second-longest rivalry in the FCS, and as of 2010, had been held in Houston at NRG stadium in front of generally 25k+ fans. Stephen F. Austin is moving to the WAC like SHSU was originally planning.
- This is also a hit to the ASUN, who had just recently added Jacksonville State and included Liberty as a non-football member. If you include Austin Peay, who has said they're joining in 2022, they have 5 football playing members...which just ain't enough (Austin Peay, Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Kennesaw State, North Alabama). And that's assuming C-USA doesn't invite up someone like Kennesaw State or Eastern Kentucky.
- With news that the CAA (who just lost JMU to the Sun Belt) is possibly targeting the Big South's North Carolina A&T, which would put the Big South at 7 football members...does the Big South and ASUN end up merging to keep enough teams?
- These additions make the "Battle of I-10" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_I-10) annual rivalry game between New Mexico State and UTEP into a conference game (they're only about 40 minutes away from each other (https://goo.gl/maps/3H5z3tBk2iNh4PdY8))

hold on there! Thats LU-Mcneese

[ST_Lawson]

As a fan of a school that is also big in March Madness, I can say that the comparisons between the FCS and this aren't good. I mean, I love March Madness, but I actually kind of hate the FCS playoffs. It's not because my team never wins it all, but that the tournament is not inclusive enough to invoke that underdog spirit of MM (24 is an awkward number), and at the same times it does a good job of putting the thumb on the scales against the visiting/lower seeded team that just wasn't true when the field was 16 (more travel, especially cross country travel, more games, etc). All while this sense of zero-sum-ness lingers over the whole damn thing.

I know you were referencing how you'd like to see more teams go out on a win, but this (quoted) part really stuck with me.

I think the 16 team field (seeding everyone) was great...higher seed hosts, no byes. And I don't think it's because we were at our program's pinnacle at that time...you just knew that if you took care of business on the field and got a high seed, you could host games...none of this "getting outbid" business. Maybe it does have a relevance to my school's team, because back then, we made the playoffs fairly often. From 1996 through 2002, we played in 9 playoff games...7 of them were in Macomb. Since 2002, we've been in 7 playoff games...0 of them were in Macomb. Yes, I realize that if you're really good and get a top 8 seed, you still get to host at least one game (which is essentially how it was before), but the first round of the playoffs now are "whoever can put forth the highest bid hosts" not "the best football team hosts", and I guess that just doesn't sit well with me because I know that even if we are good enough to make the playoffs in a year, we'll never outbid...well...anyone.


hold on there! Thats LU-Mcneese

Well that's cool. I didn't know you guys were that close together along I-10 too.

[Daytripper]

My idea:

CUSA "Northwest"

1) UTEP
2) New Mexico State
3) Montana
4) Montana State
5) Idaho
6) NDSU
7) SDSU

CUSA Southeast

1) FIU
2) Liberty
3) Louisiana Tech
4) Jacksonville State
5) Sam Houston State
6) Jackson State
7) NC A&T


Tell me this isn't 1000x better than the 8-team "life support conference" that is currently about to take shape.

I would take that in a heartbeat.

[Tubakat2014]

My idea:

CUSA "Northwest"

1) UTEP
2) New Mexico State
3) Montana
4) Montana State
5) Idaho
6) NDSU
7) SDSU

CUSA Southeast

1) FIU
2) Liberty
3) Louisiana Tech
4) Jacksonville State
5) Sam Houston State
6) Jackson State
7) NC A&T


Tell me this isn't 1000x better than the 8-team "life support conference" that is currently about to take shape.

Ooh I like this!

[lionsrking2]

Strong rumor that McNeese may land in CUSA.

[katss07]

Strong rumor that McNeese may land in CUSA.
Is it coming from the American Press? Because all they seem to do is push MSU rumors.

[lionsrking2]

Is it coming from the American Press? Because all they seem to do is push MSU rumors.

Not coming from American Press but a very reliable source who should be in position to know.

[Daytripper]

Strong rumor that McNeese may land in CUSA.

I hope so. A close regional rival. But most importantly a road trip to Lake Charles every other year for a wide variety of kick-ass Cajun food.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

My idea:

CUSA "Northwest"

1) UTEP
2) New Mexico State
3) Montana
4) Montana State
5) Idaho
6) NDSU
7) SDSU

CUSA Southeast

1) FIU
2) Liberty
3) Louisiana Tech
4) Jacksonville State
5) Sam Houston State
6) Jackson State
7) NC A&T


Tell me this isn't 1000x better than the 8-team "life support conference" that is currently about to take shape.




I'd support this 100%

Wish it would happen but probably ZERO chance it will....:(

[Professor Chaos]

Strong rumor that McNeese may land in CUSA.
This would simply baffle me. McNeese's athletic budget sat at about 12M in 2020. That was at 202 of 230 D1 public universities in this database: https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

I guess their subsidies from student fee and school funds are low but they'd have to skyrocket for them to be competitive in the FBS.

[BNATION]

so sad so sad
sometimes she feels so sad
alone in an apartment she dwells
for the man of her dreams To break her spell
Man, I’m just not Happy about this move. We just became irrelevant.

[JSUSoutherner]

Man, I’m just not Happy about this move. We just became irrelevant.

If we could keep WKU and MTSU and bring up SFA, Missouri State, and Kennesaw I would be content. We could do an E/W with

West-
UTEP
NMSU
SHSU
SFA
LTU
MSU

East-
Jax
Liberty
Kennesaw
MTSU
WKU
FIU

I could live with this setup.

[Daytripper]

If we could keep WKU and MTSU and bring up SFA, Missouri State, and Kennesaw I would be content. We could do an E/W with

West-
UTEP
NMSU
SHSU
SFA
LTU
MSU

East-
Jax
Liberty
Kennesaw
MTSU
WKU
FIU

I could live with this setup.

I know this might sound weird but based on institutional money and capacity, I think Lamar is in better shape to move up than SFA.

[JSUSoutherner]

I know this might sound weird but based on institutional money and capacity, I think Lamar is in better shape to move up than SFA.

I mean if that were the deciding factor then Kennesaw would have gotten the invite over us.

[KPSUL]

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it

Being good isn't a prerequisite for moving up.

Liberty had zero playoff wins and moved up (though they did it differently)



Liberty won one Playoff Game: 1st Round 2014 @ JMU

But, I agree, they weren't anywhere near the top of FCS football.

[Reign of Terrier]

I know you were referencing how you'd like to see more teams go out on a win, but this (quoted) part really stuck with me.

I think the 16 team field (seeding everyone) was great...higher seed hosts, no byes. And I don't think it's because we were at our program's pinnacle at that time...you just knew that if you took care of business on the field and got a high seed, you could host games...none of this "getting outbid" business. Maybe it does have a relevance to my school's team, because back then, we made the playoffs fairly often. From 1996 through 2002, we played in 9 playoff games...7 of them were in Macomb. Since 2002, we've been in 7 playoff games...0 of them were in Macomb. Yes, I realize that if you're really good and get a top 8 seed, you still get to host at least one game (which is essentially how it was before), but the first round of the playoffs now are "whoever can put forth the highest bid hosts" not "the best football team hosts", and I guess that just doesn't sit well with me because I know that even if we are good enough to make the playoffs in a year, we'll never outbid...well...anyone.



See, Wofford is in a little bit of a different situation: we will outbid people, especially Big South opponents and even opponents like Elon and even Kennesaw. We've done that pretty much every year we didn't have a bye.

But in a weird way, it feels...cheaper? We will usually get a win in that game (or we'll be favored to), but literally no one cares outside of our fanbase? Because it's not a "big three team" or whatever. In the 16 team format, we got sent to Montana and JMU, and hosted a defending national champion as the four seed in 2003.

Nowadays, we can only hope to draw a flash-in-the-pant program in the first round, or get riffed by Kennesaw. If we're fortunate enough to have a seed, we're not hosting a perennial power relatively down from previous season, we're hosting either a conference opponent or an impressive team that has beaten on our conference opponents.

There's seemingly no novelty or stakes unless you are an elite program. NDSU fans talk about this all the time about getting new teams into the dome, or seeing rematches (because teams marginally do better the second time in a 4 year period). It used to be that way for the 16 team format. It's not for the 24 team, unless you're an elite program.

Now, if you're in a geographically isolated part of the country like the Big Sky or MVFC, this criticism is probably not 100% applicable. You'll play conference opponents in the second round, sure, but your first round opponents will be more novel because everyone has to fly to see you.

Either way, because of the bid process, regionalization, seeding, etc, the expanded field has done a great job of cheapening the FCS experience. Wofford won 2 playoff games in 2016, and it was really freaking fun, but going back the only bragging rights is that we got this far, and other FCS fans will just snicker because the only thing we have to show for it is a win against a conference opponent and a win against Charleston Southern. And 2017, we were not great, but had the resume of a seeded team, but then got a conference opponent again that we stomped, only to get stomped ourselves in Fargo.

Sure, that 2016 was eliminated in what was a close game we lost in double OT to the eventual runners up, but no one uses that season or closeness as evidence of how great Wofford is as a program, whereas the 2007 team that beat Montana on the road in the first round is often the data point. Those teams got just as far, had as just as impressive wins, but because of the current 24 team format, the accomplishments of the 2016 team are cheapened (relatively speaking).

Basically, regionalization is now a playoff scheduling moat that at best "protects" the FCS from the magic it used to have, and at "worst" protects "big three teams" through favorable hosting arrangements (WIU is the obvious exception). I understand people will disagree with me on the latter, but I think they can at least concede that the former is a thing.

[Milktruck74]

Liberty won one Playoff Game: 1st Round 2014 @ JMU

But, I agree, they weren't anywhere near the top of FCS football.

It isn't about the product on the field...it is about eyeballs. The reality is the product changes year to year, but the market size remains constant (for the most part).

[Daytripper]

I mean if that were the deciding factor then Kennesaw would have gotten the invite over us.

It does make you question what the criteria was for who got invited and who didn't.

[Reign of Terrier]

It does make you question what the criteria was for who got invited and who didn't.

I think they're trying to replicate what the Sun Belt did: recruit enthusiastic, perennially successful FCS teams to create a strong foundation for a conference. It's basically why C-USA almost folded while the Sun Belt didn't.

Sam Houston is a better version of Coastal (minus the tourist attraction near by) and Jacksonville State is very similar to Coastal as well. It's basically a Coastal gambit xlolx

Kennesaw State would be (right now) more in the mold of the previous failed strategy. They're a good program, good media market, etc, but their attendance is still awful and their offense is kind of boring many football viewers. I'm not saying Kennesaw couldn't at some point go FBS, but playing in a ****, noncompetitive conference has made the product itself (i.e the event that is a football game on any given, random saturday in the fall) really boring, which makes it harder for them to get more enthusiasm, attendance, etc.

[Daytripper]

I think they're trying to replicate what the Sun Belt did: recruit enthusiastic, perennially successful FCS teams to create a strong foundation for a conference. It's basically why C-USA almost folded while the Sun Belt didn't.

Sam Houston is a better version of Coastal (minus the tourist attraction near by) and Jacksonville State is very similar to Coastal as well. It's basically a Coastal gambit xlolx

Kennesaw State would be (right now) more in the mold of the previous failed strategy. They're a good program, good media market, etc, but their attendance is still awful and their offense is kind of boring many football viewers. I'm not saying Kennesaw couldn't at some point go FBS, but playing in a ****, noncompetitive conference has made the product itself (i.e the event that is a football game on any given, random saturday in the fall) really boring, which makes it harder for them to get more enthusiasm, attendance, etc.

I think JSU will probably end up being the main conference rival of Sam Houston. Kind of like a sibling rivalry of brothers that grew up competitive.

[CockyGeek]

It's too bad there's an 11 hour drive between stadiums

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

To be fair, the track at App is gone now. I think they average 25k a game. I hear it's the most fun atmosphere in NC. Granted, that's not saying much, but still.

They are getting crowds of 30K or better these days. Saw a Twitter post that App State had a crowd of 31K and change to see them play The Fighting Chadwells.

https://twitter.com/AppState_FB/status/1453381716249219072

[Serpentor]

Man, I’m just not Happy about this move. We just became irrelevant.

We may love the FCS, but as far as the rest of college sports media is concerned, if you're not FBS, you don't exist.

[BisonFan02]

Wait a minute. I am a late arrival on this and do no follow the CUSA. Those ****ers play football on a Tuesday, freaking Tuesday, Tuesday. If so. I am out. **** that noise. That is 9 season tickets gone right there.

What the **** else do you have to do on a Tuesday anymore besides eat tacos and kick some ass?

[BNATION]

If we could keep WKU and MTSU and bring up SFA, Missouri State, and Kennesaw I would be content. We could do an E/W with

West-
UTEP
NMSU
SHSU
SFA
LTU
MSU

East-
Jax
Liberty
Kennesaw
MTSU
WKU
FIU

I could live with this setup.
Totally agree.

[BNATION]

We may love the FCS, but as far as the rest of college sports media is concerned, if you're not FBS, you don't exist.
I agree with you. I just love the FCS. It’s great football with a real playoff and champion. No BS just football. Will miss it.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

after reading the news over the past several days, was really hoping beyond hope that ETSU's leadership team would make an effort to lobby for Conference USA. Something tells me the window for any other FCS teams to move on up will be closed for the next several years. We have a solid football team (thank you Randy Sanders), men's basketball (thank you Steve Forbes for building the foundation that Desmond Oliver can expand upon). I really believe in time that ETSU can be competitive in a reconstituted Conference USA in both of those sports if ETSU chose to move.

[JSUSoutherner]

after reading the news over the past several days, was really hoping beyond hope that ETSU's leadership team would make an effort to lobby for Conference USA. Something tells me the window for any other FCS teams to move on up will be closed for the next several years. We have a solid football team (thank you Randy Sanders), men's basketball (thank you Steve Forbes for building the foundation that Desmond Oliver can expand upon). I really believe in time that ETSU can be competitive in a reconstituted Conference USA in both of those sports if ETSU chose to move.

While I agree ETSU is better athletically, the facilities at ETSU aren't good.

[PantherRob82]

While I agree ETSU is better athletically, the facilities at ETSU aren't good.

I mean, McNeese is rumored and I think their press box is condemned, so...

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

While I agree ETSU is better athletically, the facilities at ETSU aren't good.

That might have been a true statement a couple of decades ago but a great deal has changed. When ETSU brought back football, plans were underway to build an on-campus stadium for the football team. Greene Stadium, finished in 2017, was the end result and had 10k or so fans watch ETSU defeat VMI this weekend. It is hoped that a plan is in place to upgrade the stadium should ETSU were to move to Conference USA. In 2014, ETSU entered into a long-term agreement with Johnson City making Freedom Hall the home of Buc basketball and it can hold 6k and change.

[McNeese72]

I mean, McNeese is rumored and I think their press box is condemned, so...
Old pressbox to be demolished soon as this season is over. A new pressbox will be built that will be from endzone to endzone on that side. We are taking the hurricane damage as the opportunity not only to rebuild but to rebuild bigger and better. We have the most aggressive administration in place right now that I have ever seen at McNeese and I graduated in 1972.