Patriot League Pick 'Em - Week 6

[DFW HOYA]

Halfway home for the league where no one is going anywhere.

Colgate (2-3) at Brown (0-3), 1:30 pm
Bucknell (1-3) at Lafayette (1-4), 12:30 pm
Lehigh (0-5) at Pennsylvania (1-2), 1:00 pm
Wagner (0-5) at Fordham (2-3), 1:00 pm

[bonarae]

Colgate
Bucknell
Penn
Fordham

[Ivytalk]

Colgate
Lafayette
Penn
Fordham

[CHIP72]

The real question in the Lehigh/Penn game is whether the Mountain Hawks will score their first touchdown of the season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Digby]

Brown
Lafayett
Penn
Fordham

When will Lehigh score a touchdown?
Gilmore!
Gilmore!
Gilmore!

[ngineer]

Assuming Raiders healthy, I think the 'gate swings to victory, 24-21.

Bucky coming off a surprising win over the other 'nell. I was impressed with LC's QB. Rams exposed their D, but Bucknell's O is not Fordham. 'pards win 31=14

Wagner gets spanked in the Bronx, 41-17

Lehigh searching for just a good drive and TD. Sort of like the saying, "A parking spot and a hot cup of coffee can get you through most anything." The eternal optimist, I expect to see some progress on offense. The D will play hard and may keep it close for awhile, but not enough bullets, yet, even though we'll be in West Philly...Penn, 27-10.

[DFW HOYA]

The two teams with an off week have work ahead, and in different ways.

Holy Cross needs to address pass defense if they don't want their season to end in playoff week 1. Example: Harvard is a run-first team who still put 229 up on the Crusaders. The schedule looks favorable with home games versus Georgetown, Colgate (at Polar Park), at Lehigh, and home vs. Lafayette heading into November.

Georgetown enters the bye week with no depth and a upside down defense--traditionally strong on the run and loose on the pass, Georgetown is 112th against the run and 7th against the pass--though, to be fair, if it's easier to run, you don't worry about the pass. Offensively, Georgetown is 121st of 123 on the run and 112th in sacks allowed. The problem is exacerbated because the offense is comprised mostly of seniors and 5th years--so what's it going to be like next year? Ugh. The gains made in competitiveness between 2018 and 2019 appear gone at this point and the chances for a 20th losing season since 2000 are now in the distance.

[kdinva]

Colgate 30; Brown 20
Lafayette 28; Bucknell 23
Penn 27; Lehigh 17
Fordham 31; Wagner 14

[Sader87]

We threw up all ovah ourselves at home again but the HC D has been mostly solid this year....holding Monmouth and Yale to 15 and 17 points on the road respectively.

I'd be very surprised if the Johnnies aren't very much in the mix for the Ancient VIII title this year.

[TheValleyRaider]

Just when you think you have things figured out, the League pulls a few surprises. Well, I say that, and still went 3-2 last week, so I guess not too many. Some good ('ray Bucknell!) and some bad (Holy Cross Batman!). 19-11 so far this year, and suddenly it's the second week of October.

Colgate at Brown Colgate And just like that, Colgate has a winning streak. "Strength of schedule," you might respond. To that I say, "Brown is 0-3, gives up an average of 43 points per games, and has 5 wins in its last 3 seasons." For two teams who used to play regularly as old Baptist schools (56 meetings), the Raiders and Bears haven't met since 1996 (which predates my connection to Colgate by a few years)! Good to see Bruno once again.

Bucknell at Lafayette Lafayette I'm suddenly iffy on this pick, but not because of Lafayette for once! They put together a strong effort, coming up just short against Fordham. Coming off that, assuming the team isn't too let down by the result, I'd expect a strong showing against a weaker team. But then Bucknell went out and beat Cornell by two scores. Okay fine, the performance wasn't that great (Big Red won the yardage battle by 100 yards), but it's a win I didn't expect the Bison to get. I still don't expect them to get this one either.

Lehigh at Pennsylvania Pennsylvania So it continues for the Hawks, still looking for that first touchdown of the season. Things are pretty rough in the Little Town, and the Quakers also lost to Lafayette, which won't make Lehigh feelings any warmer towards Penn. Not that they were to begin with, but sometimes it's the little things that keep you going. Bold prediction, the Hawks break through for a score, but still lose.

Wagner at Fordham Fordham Is Fordham actually the best team in the League? I still don't think so (yet), but the offense has produced against FCS foes. Wagner represents a significant step down from most of their competition this season, so if the Rams can settle down after a thrilling League win last week, they should take care of business here.

[KPSUL]

OK Patriot League, here's your weekend to take advantage of the lower half of the Ivy; although it looks likes your lower half will have to do the work.

[Digby]

There’s a lot less wailing, keening and gnashing of teeth over Cecchini not getting the Lehigh job, but he’d have been better than Gilmore.
Wilmer Bonney would have been better too.
Bucknell is a tough job and Cecchini deserves a shot somewhere else, sometime.

[Pards Rule]

I was looking at the matchups this week and I thought wouldnt it be ironic (in light of passing Coach Russo) if Lafayette and Wagner (his first HC job) played this weekend. Then it got me to thinking how in the world would D3 (Wagner ws back then in 1980) Bill Russo hear of Lafayette opening back in the day?

[Franks Tanks]

There’s a lot less wailing, keening and gnashing of teeth over Cecchini not getting the Lehigh job, but he’d have been better than Gilmore.
Wilmer Bonney would have been better too.
Bucknell is a tough job and Cecchini deserves a shot somewhere else, sometime.

Ha, it’s always a good time to work in a Wilmer Bonney reference.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Halfway home for the league where no one is going anywhere.

Can't get home? 😳

No matter how dreary and gray your league is, people of flesh and blood would rather play there than in any other league, be it ever so beautiful. There is no place like home.

[Fordham]

Yikes, rumors on the Fordham board that LB Greenhagen and DT Diodato, both of who were having tremendous seasons, were lost for the rest of the year at Lafayette. Tough going the rest of the year on D without those two.

[CHIP72]

FWIW, both of the Lehigh Valley PL teams have their games televised on NBC Sports Philadelphia channels this Saturday:

*Bucknell at Lafayette, 12:30 PM (NBC Sports Philadelphia Plus; also will be televised by RCN Channel 4, NBC Sports Chicago, and NBC Sports Bay Area)
*Lehigh at Penn, 1:00 PM (NBC Sports Philadelphia)

There's a decent chance I'll be at the Lehigh/Penn game (visiting the family this weekend); it will either be that game or Kutztown/Bloomsburg in D2. (I'll see Lafayette when they play at Georgetown on 10/30.)

[caribbeanhen]

Yikes, rumors on the Fordham board that LB Greenhagen and DT Diodato, both of who were having tremendous seasons, were lost for the rest of the year at Lafayette. Tough going the rest of the year on D without those two.

certainly not good news

[ngineer]

Yikes, rumors on the Fordham board that LB Greenhagen and DT Diodato, both of who were having tremendous seasons, were lost for the rest of the year at Lafayette. Tough going the rest of the year on D without those two.

Wow. That hurts. I hate to see that stuff happen, but goes with the territory. I learned today that one of our new rising star running backs, Garcia, who transferred from Michigan is out for the season with a foot injury. Also missing our defensive captain for a fifth week, LB Hafner. I guess it is why when we talk about how good a team is, it includes how deep one's talent is. The team with people who can 'step up' and fill such a position is usually the one with most success. I was looking forward to seeing Greenhagen the end of this month when we travel to the Bronx. I think he's a senior? Will he seek a medical R/S or think he might get a look in NFL even with the injury?

[NY Crusader 2010]

Brown
Lafayette
Penn
Fordham

[NY Crusader 2010]

Sorry to hear about Greenhagen. I am actually thinking of going to the Fordham-Wagner game this Saturday.

Was looking forward to the "battle of the LBs" between Greenhagen and our own Jacob Dobbs on 11/13. Wishing the best for the 2 guys that went down, whether that means a RS year or possible success at the next level in Greenhagen's case.

[Pard4Life]

We should beat Bucknell, but they kicked our a*ses last year. Lafayette seems to have a real QB... so, to which school do you think he will transfer?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Some Interesting Odds in the East This Week -

Brown (-3.5) vs Colgate

Lafayette (-17) vs Bucknell

Princeton (-3) at Monmouth

Columbia (-16) at Central Connecticut

Harvard (-27.5) vs Cornell

Fordham (-24.5) vs Wagner

Penn (-18) vs Lehigh

Dartmouth (-7) vs Yale

***************

Elon (-6) at Maine

Duquesne (-14.5) vs Bryant

St Francis (PA) (-13) vs Long Island

Rhode Island (-3.5) vs Delaware

Furman (PK) at Wofford

Merrimack (-6) at Sacred Heart

James Madison (-10.5) vs Villanova

William & Mary (-11.5) vs Albany

Towson (-5.5) vs Stony Brook

[Pards Rule]

Some Interesting Odds in the East This Week -

Brown (-3.5) vs Colgate

Lafayette (-17) vs Bucknell

Princeton (-3) at Monmouth

Columbia (-16) at Central Connecticut

Harvard (-27.5) vs Cornell

Fordham (-24.5) vs Wagner

Penn (-18) vs Lehigh

Dartmouth (-7) vs Yale

***************

Elon (-6) at Maine

Duquesne (-14.5) vs Bryant

St Francis (PA) (-13) vs Long Island

Rhode Island (-3.5) vs Delaware

Furman (PK) at Wofford

Merrimack (-6) at Sacred Heart

James Madison (-10.5) vs Villanova

William & Mary (-11.5) vs Albany

Towson (-5.5) vs Stony Brook

Bogey is Long Island I think the former CW Post? Damn I remember watching us play them Halloween afternoon 1981 at Fisher Field in Russos first season. A 48-10 win. Carmine DeSantis a what 5-9 frosh receiver launches a pass on a end around option and gets a TD pass credited that day. I asked him later about it and he said it took all my arm to chuck it 30 yards!! It looked it!

[Bill]

Pards,

Yes - LIU is the old Post School...they did some merging/rebranding about 10 years ago.

[IslandPard]

We should beat Bucknell, but they kicked our a*ses last year. Lafayette seems to have a real QB... so, to which school do you think he will transfer?

Ouch!!!

[Leopard Loyalist]

Colgate (2-3) at Brown (0-3), 1:30 pm
Bucknell (1-3) at Lafayette (1-4), 12:30 pm
Lehigh (0-5) at Pennsylvania (1-2), 1:00 pm
Wagner (0-5) at Fordham (2-3), 1:00 pm

[Bogus Megapardus]

Pards,

Yes - LIU is the old Post School...they did some merging/rebranding about 10 years ago.

It looks like they took the LIU-Post and LIU-Brooklyn programs and merged them. That maneuver brought Post football from DII to DI.

[CHIP72]

Pards,

Yes - LIU is the old Post School...they did some merging/rebranding about 10 years ago.

Actually, CW Post (i.e. LIU-Post) played in D2 in football until about 3 years ago (in recent years they were in the NE-10, but they also played in the PSAC for a few years until the early 2010s) but Long Island University combined its athletic programs (Long Island in Brooklyn and LIU-Post/CW Post) with all of them not already playing at the Division I level moving up to D1.

[caribbeanhen]

Delaware played CW Post in late 70s

by the way Lehigh fans, I watched a bit of a 1978 Delaware at Lehigh game at Fisher Field

it’s on YouTube

Lehigh had a great defense from what I could see

The Delaware starting quarterback was Jeff Komlo, who went on to play for the Detroit Lions

Lehigh was no joke and I believe ranked very high in the 1AA polls that year

[DFW HOYA]

Delaware played CW Post in late 70s

by the way Lehigh fans, I watched a bit of a 1978 Delaware at Lehigh game at Fisher Field
it’s on YouTube


No, not Fisher Field. It's Taylor Stadium.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBMbGImOns

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate 30 Brown 17 - If Brenneman plays the Raiders should win by 2 scores...
Lafayette 24 Bucknell 13 - The 'Pards bounce back after a tough loss last week...
Fordham 38 Wagner 21 - The Rams have suffered some unfortunate injuries. For the team's sake, those won't matter this week...
Penn 31 Lehigh 10 - Lehigh will score a TD this week but they won't come close to winning...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Here's some highlights from the last game at Taylor Stadium. The infamous frigid finale. The entire game was posted on youtube for a few years but now the link says the video is private?


https://youtu.be/gqelZZOSWPQ

[The Boogie Down]

Colgate 30 Brown 17 - If Brenneman plays the Raiders should win by 2 scores...
Lafayette 24 Bucknell 13 - The 'Pards bounce back after a tough loss last week...
Fordham 38 Wagner 21 - The Rams have suffered some unfortunate injuries. For the team's sake, those won't matter this week...
Penn 31 Lehigh 10 - Lehigh will score a TD this week but they won't come close to winning...

Pretty much my take on things. Random Q... What was so good about Bucknell last year, or so bad about Lafayette, that made last season's game such a mismatch for the Bison? If I remember correctly, not only did Bucky win easily, but (to my surprise) everyone here predicted it beforehand.



Here's some highlights from the last game at Taylor Stadium. The infamous frigid finale. The entire game was posted on youtube for a few years but now the link says the video is private?


https://youtu.be/gqelZZOSWPQ

As for Taylor Stadium, that's prolly the one & only PL facility that I wouldn't have traded JCF in for! xnodx

[Pards Rule]

Here's some highlights from the last game at Taylor Stadium. The infamous frigid finale. The entire game was posted on youtube for a few years but now the link says the video is private?


https://youtu.be/gqelZZOSWPQ

I was there. Coldest game in my 41 straight of those Rivalry games since 1980! Most of the crowd departed at half. At end maybe 300 total left, including me

[DFW HOYA]

I was there. Coldest game in my 41 straight of those Rivalry games since 1980! Most of the crowd departed at half. At end maybe 300 total left, including me

How safe was that press box? It looks to be on stilts.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Pretty much my take on things. Random Q... What was so good about Bucknell last year, or so bad about Lafayette, that made last season's game such a mismatch for the Bison? If I remember correctly, not only did Bucky win easily, but (to my surprise) everyone here predicted it beforehand.

As for Taylor Stadium, that's prolly the one & only PL facility that I wouldn't have traded JCF in for! xnodx

Taylor and JCF might have had more in common than you thought! I'm old enough to remember Taylor (through the eyes of a young kid) and it was super cool. You walked the South Bethlehem streets to get to it, entered through a "grand entrance way" and then basically walked onto the field to get to your seats. The place was similar size to Fitton Field despite the away stands ending at the (50) without temp bleachers.

https://memories.lehigh.edu/sites/memories.lehigh.edu/files/Taylor.jpg

My dad has likely some of the last pics taken of Taylor; the '87 Lafayette game. Some of the ones you'll see when you google "Taylor Stadium" are his. I know he still has the original copies with the time stamp on the backs. He might have sent them to the university at some point for them to use.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

How safe was that press box? It looks to be on stilts.

OSHA standards might have been a little different back then. I love the fact it looked like railroad car...

I remember Bucknell's CMS in the late 80's when it was crumbling. I'm pretty sure at one point (1989?) sections of the concrete horseshoe were condemned.

[DFW HOYA]

What was center field at Taylor? For that matter, what was left field, 500 feet?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It makes sense you look at facilities why not much separated Lehigh, Holy Cross, Rutgers, Temple, Syracuse, Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette not TOO long ago etc....

Rutgers Stadium...
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2637/3896242231_b613a2f04d_z.jpg?zz=1

Temple Stadium, this could have saved in the late 80's, early 90's...
https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.14888d35667d5d274cebebde6d8a7206?rik=NueMsBSRwKk pEg&riu=http%3a%2f%2fhiddencityphila.org%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2015%2f12%2fTemple-University-Stadium-660x515.jpg&ehk=8KbLQ%2f%2fshQwaeisQyZldejQTmuhMJk3RtgkrsjxSbZ A%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

Syracuse's Archbold Stadium
https://live.staticflickr.com/7429/10232621453_fb7105486c_b.jpg

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What was center field at Taylor? For that matter, what was left field, 500 feet?

They might have been able to put up a temp fence in left field around 330 ft or so? Ngineer perhaps knows how the baseball stadium was setup prior to the move to the Goodman Campus.

If nothing else, I think it was a better setup than the LA Coliseum.

[DFW HOYA]

It makes sense you look at facilities why not much separated Lehigh, Holy Cross, Rutgers, Temple, Syracuse, Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette not TOO long ago etc....


Nice photos. Here's two more. West Virginia's Mountaineer Field:
https://onview.lib.wvu.edu/image/020856.jpg

Followed by Memorial Stadium in Storrs, CT:
https://live.staticflickr.com/3169/2902591191_28025707c6_b.jpg

[The Boogie Down]

If nothing else, I think it was a better setup than the LA Coliseum.

Maybe but barely... Gotta say, aside from the West Virginia photo, not getting the warm and fuzzies from these stadiums. In fact, some like Rutgers and UConn, are surprisingly high on the "yikes" scale. Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any Flutie-era BC shots? For some reason I can find lots of 1960s-era photos (w/the reservoir fully intact) and many modern day ones but hardly anything from the 1970s and even less of the '80s.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Maybe but barely... Gotta say, aside from the West Virginia photo, not getting the warm and fuzzies from these stadiums. In fact, some like Rutgers and UConn, are surprisingly high on the "yikes" scale. Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any Flutie-era BC shots? For some reason I can find lots of 1960s-era photos (w/the reservoir fully intact) and many modern day ones but hardly anything from the 1970s and even less of the '80s.

I'd love to know the date of that photo. The "modern goalposts" and cars say mid to late 70s? Maybe early 80s? That's about the time the Goodman athletic campus was developed.

I think the "yikes" helps to explain the difference between Northeast college football and SEC football. Penn State really became the anomaly from the late 70's, early 80's on.

I'm pretty sure BC's Alumni Stadium was either drastically renovated or rebuilt in the late 80's, early 90's. The first BC game i remember watching from Alumni Stadium was against #1 Miami in 1991. I never remember any of their home games being broadcasted prior to joining the Big East....

[Bill]

I'd love to know the date of that photo. The "modern goalposts" and cars say mid to late 70s? Maybe early 80s? That's about the time the Goodman athletic campus was developed.

I think the "yikes" helps to explain the difference between Northeast college football and SEC football. Penn State really became the anomaly from the late 70's, early 80's on.

I'm pretty sure BC's Alumni Stadium was either drastically renovated or rebuilt in the late 80's, early 90's. The first BC game i remember watching from Alumni Stadium was against #1 Miami in 1991. I never remember any of their home games being broadcasted prior to joining the Big East....

Go Lehigh, I like your point here!

And everyone else - THANK YOU...these photos were awesome to look at. I was a freshman at Lehigh in 1989...Taylor was still there, although we played at Goodman. It was like walking by a graveyard every day...creepy, but you could almost hear the memories coming off the old field.

[caribbeanhen]

No, not Fisher Field. It's Taylor Stadium.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBMbGImOns

Taylor Stadium! Thanks for correcting that

[CHIP72]

I'd love to know the date of that photo. The "modern goalposts" and cars say mid to late 70s? Maybe early 80s? That's about the time the Goodman athletic campus was developed.

I think the "yikes" helps to explain the difference between Northeast college football and SEC football. Penn State really became the anomaly from the late 70's, early 80's on.

I'm pretty sure BC's Alumni Stadium was either drastically renovated or rebuilt in the late 80's, early 90's. The first BC game i remember watching from Alumni Stadium was against #1 Miami in 1991. I never remember any of their home games being broadcasted prior to joining the Big East....

You forgot Pitt Stadium, which was a legitimately solid stadium for major college football during the era you mentioned, though the fact it was ultimately torn down after the 1999 season and not replaced with another on-campus football stadium sort of proves the point.

IMO, even Beaver Stadium looked (and still looks) like a high school stadium in terms of its build quality...just a really, really large high school stadium. That stadium, when it was much smaller in capacity (IIRC, around 30K seats), was literally dissembled, moved across campus, and reassembled in the early 1960s, and then the stadium additions built after that through the early 1980s were added in a haphazard, piecemeal way such that it looks like an erector set.

Having attended games at a few DI-A/FBS P5 schools, including some in the SEC (places where I've seen games that fit the description include Maryland, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Alabama, and Virginia as well as Penn State, plus I've also seen games at places like Penn, Rice, UAB, and Memphis that hosted DI-A/major college football on a regular basis in the past, either in the regular season or in bowl games), Beaver Stadium looks the most bare bones, has the fewest amenities, is the most outdated, and is most of need of replacement of any of those stadiums with the possible exception of Legion Field, which HAS BEEN abandoned as UAB's home field because it is so dilapidated (though it is better constructed than Beaver Stadium). It is amazing how much better and relatively modern places like Bryant-Denny Stadium (Alabama) and Davis Wade Stadium (Mississippi State) feel compared to Beaver Stadium, even though those venues and most of the other stadiums I mentioned above have also been expanded many times over the years and were much smaller in the early 1980s. The only part of Beaver Stadium that feels reasonably modern in 2021 is the south end zone upper deck. The rest of the stadium is absolutely terrible IMO. (Disclosure note: I've attended six games at Beaver Stadium from 2002 to 2016 and have sat in seats on the sidelines, lower level end zone, north upper deck end zone, and south upper deck end zone.)

One other, related thought - IMO major eastern independent college football hit its peak in the late 1970s and throughout the 1980s when just about all of those teams had seasons or periods when they were nationally prominent and in some cases contended for the national title (besides Penn State being a perennial national title contender and winning national championships in 1982 and 1986, you had Pitt winning a national title in 1976 and seriously contending throughout the late 1970s and early 1980s, Syracuse going undefeated in 1987 and having other good teams, West Virginia playing for the national title in 1988 and having other good teams, Boston College being very good during the Doug Flutie years, and even Temple and Rutgers having some very competitive years, such as TU's 1979 10-2 season). It becomes even more remarkable in retrospect those teams were able to be competitive considering the venues some of them had to use during that time. Of course, in many cases those teams used alternate venues, often NFL stadiums, for some/many home games, like Sullivan Stadium (Boston College), Veterans Stadium (Temple), or Giants Stadium (Rutgers).

[Pards Rule]

OSHA standards might have been a little different back then. I love the fact it looked like railroad car...

I remember Bucknell's CMS in the late 80's when it was crumbling. I'm pretty sure at one point (1989?) sections of the concrete horseshoe were condemned.

Yeah it was already getting bad there when I went during college in Oct 1982 and after in Oct 1986.

[Pards Rule]

I'd love to know the date of that photo. The "modern goalposts" and cars say mid to late 70s? Maybe early 80s? That's about the time the Goodman athletic campus was developed.

I think the "yikes" helps to explain the difference between Northeast college football and SEC football. Penn State really became the anomaly from the late 70's, early 80's on.

I'm pretty sure BC's Alumni Stadium was either drastically renovated or rebuilt in the late 80's, early 90's. The first BC game i remember watching from Alumni Stadium was against #1 Miami in 1991. I never remember any of their home games being broadcasted prior to joining the Big East....

Last game at Taylor was Nov. 1987. Did Lehigh play all away games in 1988? By 1989 I was at the new Goodman watching Lafayette-Lehigh in Nov. 1989

[Pards Rule]

Haha that "Temple Stadium" is JFK in South Philly (long departed). Now they play at the Eagles Lincoln Field (where Lafayette will open play vs Temple in 2022)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Haha that "Temple Stadium" is JFK in South Philly (long departed). Now they play at the Eagles Lincoln Field (where Lafayette will open play vs Temple in 2022)

Two completely different facilities

JFK was in South Philly while Temple Stadium was near Cheltenham and university owned. JFK was torn down in the early to mid 90's to make way for the First Union Center. Temple Stadium was demolished in 1995....

[CHIP72]

Haha that "Temple Stadium" is JFK in South Philly (long departed). Now they play at the Eagles Lincoln Field (where Lafayette will open play vs Temple in 2022)

Two completely different facilities

JFK was in South Philly while Temple Stadium was near Cheltenham and university owned. JFK was torn down in the early to mid 90's to make way for the First Union Center. Temple Stadium was demolished in 1995....

To add to the above, JFK Stadium (previously known as Municipal Stadium and originally as Sesquicentennial Stadium; it was opened in 1926, the 150th anniversary of the founding of the United States) was a single level, 100,000 seat behemoth that had seats FAR from the field that due to its size and architecture quickly became a white elephant soon after it was opened. The most notable events that took place there were the Army-Navy Game (every year from 1936 to 1978 excluding during World War II) and many large concerts, in particular many Grateful Dead shows in the 1970s and 1980s and the U.S. portion of Live Aid in July 1985. The Philadelphia Eagles also called the stadium home from 1936 to 1939 and played a couple games there after that, including the 1950 season opener that featured the 2-time defending NFL champion Eagles vs the 4-time time defending AAFC champion Cleveland Browns. In the 1970s and 1980s, the Eagles used the facility as a practice field, while the World Football League Philadelphia Bell played their home games there in 1974.

JFK Stadium was condemned in summer 1989 by the city of Philadelphia shortly after Grateful Dead concert was held there. As GLTUOwl noted, the arena currently known as the Wells Fargo Center (originally the CoreStates Center, then the First Union Center, then the Wachovia Center) was eventually built on the site and opened in 1996.

By contrast, Temple Stadium was a 20,000 seat stadium located in far north Philadelphia near the Montgomery County border (near where PA 309 intersects the city of Philadelphia/Montgomery County border).

It should be noted that JFK Stadium and Temple Stadium were also different facilities than Baker Bowl, Shibe Park/Connie Mack Stadium, and Franklin Field.

[caribbeanhen]

To add to the above, JFK Stadium (previously known as Municipal Stadium and originally as Sesquicentennial Stadium; it was opened in 1926, the 150th anniversary of the founding of the United States) was a single level, 100,000 seat behemoth that had seats FAR from the field that due to its size and architecture quickly became a white elephant soon after it was opened. The most notable events that took place there were the Army-Navy Game (every year from 1936 to 1978 excluding during World War II) and many large concerts, in particular many Grateful Dead shows in the 1970s and 1980s and the U.S. portion of Live Aid in July 1985. The Philadelphia Eagles also called the stadium home from 1936 to 1939 and played a couple games there after that, including the 1950 season opener that featured the 2-time defending NFL champion Eagles vs the 4-time time defending AAFC champion Cleveland Browns. In the 1970s and 1980s, the Eagles used the facility as a practice field, while the World Football League Philadelphia Bell played their home games there in 1974.

JFK Stadium was condemned in summer 1989 by the city of Philadelphia shortly after Grateful Dead concert was held there. As GLTUOwl noted, the arena currently known as the Wells Fargo Center (originally the CoreStates Center, then the First Union Center, then the Wachovia Center) was eventually built on the site and opened in 1996.

By contrast, Temple Stadium was a 20,000 seat stadium located in far north Philadelphia near the Montgomery County border (near where PA 309 intersects the city of Philadelphia/Montgomery County border).

It should be noted that JFK Stadium and Temple Stadium were also different facilities than Baker Bowl, Shibe Park/Connie Mack Stadium, and Franklin Field.


this is some great history! I’m pretty sure Mick Jagger and the Stones filled JFK for a concert circa 1980

[hawkineer]

Taylor Stadium! Thanks for correcting that
There was no better place to watch a game than Taylor Stadium. It was right on campus. Fans were incredibly close to the field. So much better than Goodman. The only problem was when it rained. The lower stands were cement which you sat on. I remember a parents’ weekend when it rained hard enough that there were waterfalls cascading down the lower stands. The upper stands were metal with bench seats. They were fine.

I stayed for the entire game in ‘87. Even Yukon Jack couldn’t keep you warm that day. Wind chills were in the minus teens. Thank god Lehigh won 17-10.

It is now where the business school is located. They did save the facade from the west end of the stadium. It is near the current business school.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 0
Brown 10
End 1st

Frustrating day so far, score not really reflective of the game to this point. Colgate has had three big plays wiped away by penalties, two TDs and a 4th down conversion. Brown moved well on the first drive, then stalled for a FG, and got their TD on a fumble recovery. Other than the first drive, the defense has been fine. On offense, Kirk and Brescia are splitting snaps, and while they've been methodical, explosive plays have been taken away by the flags.

[IslandPard]

Pard fans, what happened to TE Stillianos? The Gilbert kid is big but has no agility whatsoever!

Pards up 14-0 with 7 mins to go in the half.

[crusader11]

The count is now 21 quarters.

Lehigh's defense looks pretty good today.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 0
Brown 17
Halftime

Things are close to spiraling out of control. Offensively the Raiders have struggled. A few big plays, but also taken away by penalties. Two backbreaking turnovers, one returned for a score. Colgate gets the ball to start the second half, and really needs a score to generate some positive momentum. The defense hasn't been bad, but is struggling with Brown's no-huddle offense. Not staying off the field is going to wear them down. Really, only a fumble inside the 5 has kept this from being 24-0. Brown has played well, and will be frustrated by not getting more from their offense.

The next points will be critical. Colgate scores, and suddenly it's a game again. Brown gets it, and it might be lights out.

[crusader11]

22 quarters.

Wouldn’t it be something if Lehigh won this game with a field goal?

[CHIP72]

22 quarters.

Wouldn’t it be something if Lehigh won this game with a field goal?

It would be even more of a something if they won with a safety.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bulldog10jw]

22 quarters.

Wouldn’t it be something if Lehigh won this game with a field goal?

I'm sure they would take it.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 3
Brown 24
End 3rd

Colgate did get on the board, but only a FG. Brown promptly drove down the field for a TD to end the quarter. Can't move the ball on offense, can't get off the field defensively.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Penn gets a 1st and goal at the 9...settles for a 40 yard FG...lol...

Quakers 3-0 6:28 3Q

[crusader11]

23 quarters.

Is Lehigh close to setting records?

[Digby]

Three hours and 49 minutes without a TD.
Penn can run out the clock even with just a 3-0 lead.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 10
Brown 31
Final

Tough day in Providence. Not having Brenneman really hurt the offense. Kirk got most of the snaps, he's got a nice arm but they clearly don't trust him to run. Brescia came in to run, which he did well, but his passing was suspect. The few explosive plays the Raiders got were nullified by penalties, and otherwise it was a lot of methodical movement before getting forced into 4th down. Defense struggled with Brown's up tempo offense. They made a few stops, but were quickly back on the field when the offense struggled or turned the ball over. Losing two TDs to penalties and giving up a long fumble-return score in the first half put the 'Gate in a hole they couldn't get out of. Brown played well, certainly, but in spite of the score this game was there for the taking into the 2nd half.

Next up is a Friday under the lights in Ithaca

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Penn TD!!

Quakers 13-0 4:32 4Q

[crusader11]

24 quarters without a TD. Almost impossible.

[CHIP72]

My brothers and I made a last minute decision to attend the D2 Kutztown/Bloomsburg game rather than the Lehigh/Penn game, so I didn’t see the latter. But good Lord, is Lehigh’s offense putrid. Nine points and no touchdowns in six games, and 119 yards of total offense today, including -3 yards rushing.

The Mountain Hawks may have the worst offense relative to its level in all of college football this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BNiche]

So... yeah, Wagner was a perfect Homecoming opponent.

Hoping next week's game against Bucknell isn't a trap game...

[Bogus Megapardus]

My brothers and I made a last minute decision to attend the D2 Kutztown/Bloomsburg game rather than the Lehigh/Penn game

Either of those gutsy PA programs could've beaten Lehigh this year . . . xrolleyesx

[DFW HOYA]

Either of those gutsy PA programs could've beaten Lehigh this year . . . xrolleyesx

And yet, Lehigh could just as likely win its last two of the season heading into Lafayette.

[The Boogie Down]

Wagner was a perfect Homecoming opponent.

Payback for '87! xasswhipx

[Digby]

Lafayette played CW Post in 1979 and 1973. Both wins I think, I know 1978 was a blowout.
At that time it was known as a “center” not a college, I think.
C.W. Post is considered by some to be the inventor of breakfast cereal.
It seems unlikely there was one just sort.

[Bogus Megapardus]

C.W. Post is considered by some to be the inventor of breakfast cereal.


Whether is was Charles William Post or John Harvey Kellogg who invented breakfast cereal, we know only one thing for certain - Lafayette College invented both the football helmet and the huddle for calling plays. xnodx xrotatehx xrolleyesx

And then there's William Colgate, of course . . .

[Bogus Megapardus]

How bad is Lehigh?

Penn gained 366 yards on the ground against the Brownie Bunch.

Penn managed only 11 yards rushing against Lafayette.

November 20 can't come soon enough. xpeacex

[Franks Tanks]

Pard fans, what happened to TE Stillianos? The Gilbert kid is big but has no agility whatsoever!

Pards up 14-0 with 7 mins to go in the half.

He is under some sort of school discipline issue and is out for the season. School not coaches decision.

[Bogus Megapardus]

He is under some sort of school discipline issue and is out for the season. School not coaches decision.

Must've used the wrong pronoun or something.

This is why we need the Lafayette Board back!!!

[CHIP72]

Either of those gutsy PA programs could've beaten Lehigh this year . . . xrolleyesx

Kutztown, who beat Bloomsburg today 34-7 and is now 5-1, definitely could. Bloomsburg, now 1-5, I'm not so sure about, but it would likely be a close game.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Coming into this weekend, Lehigh and Wagner were neck-and-neck as Massey Rating's two lowest-ranked FCS squads. It will be interesting to see which one of the two comes in dead last after today.

At least Wagner scored.

[CHIP72]

Lehigh is so bad this season that I'm considering not even watching L-L 157 (which I've always made a point to watch over the last decade plus, even when it conflicts with a Temple game). That's especially true if I attend the Battle of the Blue in Newark that day instead (probably won't for girlfriend reasons but I'm not ruling it out; I want to get the Battle of the Blue at some point).

I expect Lafayette to beat Lehigh in L-L 157 similar to how they beat Bucknell today, perhaps by an even larger margin, if nothing unusual happens between now and November 20th and both teams play their "normal" games that day based on how they've played so far this season.

[Franks Tanks]

Must've used the wrong pronoun or something.

This is why we need the Lafayette Board back!!!

A social media post that contained “bias” apparently

https://www.lafayettestudentnews.com/blog/2021/09/10/star-football-player-off-the-field-due-to-a-disciplinary-matter/

[crusader11]

What does that even mean?

[Pards Rule]

this is some great history! I’m pretty sure Mick Jagger and the Stones filled JFK for a concert circa 1980

Thanks LUOwl, I stand corrected on the Temple Stadium. The Stones concert was in Sept 1981 if i recall as Jagger wore a John Sciarra number 21 jersey of the Eagles

[Pards Rule]

There was no better place to watch a game than Taylor Stadium. It was right on campus. Fans were incredibly close to the field. So much better than Goodman. The only problem was when it rained. The lower stands were cement which you sat on. I remember a parents’ weekend when it rained hard enough that there were waterfalls cascading down the lower stands. The upper stands were metal with bench seats. They were fine.

I stayed for the entire game in ‘87. Even Yukon Jack couldn’t keep you warm that day. Wind chills were in the minus teens. Thank god Lehigh won 17-10.

It is now where the business school is located. They did save the facade from the west end of the stadium. It is near the current business school.

So you and I and what about 298 other fans (probably warmed with liquid insulation) at the very end? I actually stayed and watched the "Fifth Quarter" action and picked up a brown 2x4 (railing) that somehow I managed to fit into my 4 door company car Ford Escort. I had it for years in my heater closet standing up and I believe when my dad and mom were helping me out renovate one year in 90s one of them must have tossed it :(

[Pards Rule]

He is under some sort of school discipline issue and is out for the season. School not coaches decision.

When I was up for the UNH game I picked up that weeks and previous weeks Lafayette paper. The previous week had an unusual letter to Lafayette admin from editorial board about Stillianos. Folks may want to read

[IslandPard]

When I was up for the UNH game I picked up that weeks and previous weeks Lafayette paper. The previous week had an unusual letter to Lafayette admin from editorial board about Stillianos. Folks may want to read

Do you mind sending me the link? I was just on the site and refuse to go all the way down that rabbit hole. SMH at the victim hood that exists at one of the county’s more prestigious institutions!!!

[IslandPard]

A social media post that contained “bias” apparently

https://www.lafayettestudentnews.com/blog/2021/09/10/star-football-player-off-the-field-due-to-a-disciplinary-matter/

How bad can it be if he’s still a part of the team and “Lafayette football family”?

Too bad. He’s the real deal. I’m not knocking the Gilbert kid, but he’s not Stillianos. He caught 2-3 passes all of last year and he’s preseason All-Patriot??

[IslandPard]

So... yeah, Wagner was a perfect Homecoming opponent.

Hoping next week's game against Bucknell isn't a trap game...

Nah, Bucknell is decimated with injuries. 3 out of 4 captains are out. And they lost another lineman yesterday.

[Leopard Loyalist]

Do you mind sending me the link? I was just on the site and refuse to go all the way down that rabbit hole. SMH at the victim hood that exists at one of the county’s more prestigious institutions!!!

I think this must be what Pards Rule is referring to: https://www.lafayettestudentnews.com/blog/2021/09/17/letter-from-the-editorial-board/
Seems as if the editors are not supportive of Stillianos, but they are calling for more openness from the administration.

[Pards Rule]

I think this must be what Pards Rule is referring to: https://www.lafayettestudentnews.com/blog/2021/09/17/letter-from-the-editorial-board/
Seems as if the editors are not supportive of Stillianos, but they are calling for more openness from the administration.

Yes thats it! Thanks

[Bogus Megapardus]

I think this must be what Pards Rule is referring to: https://www.lafayettestudentnews.com/blog/2021/09/17/letter-from-the-editorial-board/
Seems as if the editors are not supportive of Stillianos, but they are calling for more openness from the administration.

When they say "hate crime," is that a reference to some manner of physical criminal violence, or something else?

[ngineer]

Is the Kutztown HC one of those who was being discussed as a possible replacement for Coen?

[DFW HOYA]

When they say "hate crime," is that a reference to some manner of physical criminal violence, or something else?

"We must report facts as they are presented, and without official confirmation of the incident, we were forced to refer to it as alleged. This, however, does not reflect the views of the editorial staff. We know an incident occurred."

They "knew"? Really? That why not report that? Feelings do not supersede facts on hand.

[Pards Rule]

Is the Kutztown HC one of those who was being discussed as a possible replacement for Coen?

Coen or Gilmore??

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Is the Kutztown HC one of those who was being discussed as a possible replacement for Coen?

Drew Folmar was the head coach at Kutztown before replacing Cecchini as Lehigh's OC. That's the type of guys Coen brought in to join the staff; D2 head coaches to become coordinators. I honestly believe he was going to groom Brisson into the next big time FCS offensive coordinator but never got the chance. Now Brisson works for a clown....

[Bogus Megapardus]

"We must report facts as they are presented, and without official confirmation of the incident, we were forced to refer to it as alleged. This, however, does not reflect the views of the editorial staff. We know an incident occurred."

They "knew"? Really? That why not report that? Feelings do not supersede facts on hand.

"The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia"

[Bill]

"The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia"

How Orwellian! I love the deep dives into culture surrounding the Patriot League.

[Bogus Megapardus]

How Orwellian! I love the deep dives into culture surrounding the Patriot League.

I'll translate it into Icelandic if you give me a few . . .

[ngineer]

No, when they were searching for Coen’s replacement, Inseem to recall that the HC at Kutztown was suggested as an “up and coming” guy to watch with a good handle on offense.

[ngineer]

Unfortunately, I think. Brisson has been running the “offense”. Gilmore has always been a defensive guy. He may have the “final say” on certain matters, but Brisson is the one who is to come up with the scheme and personnel selections.

[crusader11]

Would Pete Lembo leave South Carolina to come back to Lehigh? I kind of think that's what Sterrett was hoping to get with hiring Gilmore -- reinvigorate the program with those Lehigh teams from the late 90s / early 00s and get the alums and fanbase excited again. Clearly, hasn't worked.

Tim Cramsey seems like a pretty obvious guy that should be in consideration. Why hasn't he gotten a head gig yet?

Mickey Fein (Harvard OC and former Lafayette OC)?

An out-of-the-box one would be Fordham's OC Kevin Decker.

How about Chris Villarrial (St. Francis head coach) -- it seems like he has taken a near impossible job and made St. Francis pretty respectable.

[DFW HOYA]

Would Pete Lembo leave South Carolina to come back to Lehigh? I kind of think that's what Sterrett was hoping to get with hiring Gilmore -- reinvigorate the program with those Lehigh teams from the late 90s / early 00s and get the alums and fanbase excited again. Clearly, hasn't worked.

https://carolinanewsandreporter.cic.sc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/COACHING-STAFF_G1_CB.jpg

[ngineer]

Would Pete Lembo leave South Carolina to come back to Lehigh? I kind of think that's what Sterrett was hoping to get with hiring Gilmore -- reinvigorate the program with those Lehigh teams from the late 90s / early 00s and get the alums and fanbase excited again. Clearly, hasn't worked.

Tim Cramsey seems like a pretty obvious guy that should be in consideration. Why hasn't he gotten a head gig yet?

Mickey Fein (Harvard OC and former Lafayette OC)?

An out-of-the-box one would be Fordham's OC Kevin Decker.

How about Chris Villarrial (St. Francis head coach) -- it seems like he has taken a near impossible job and made St. Francis pretty respectable.

All of the above are considerations, except Lembo. He’s obviously in the hunt for the brass ring of a Power 5 HC gig. Every couple years he moves onto another “Assoc. Head Coach” role. Unless things change significantly over the next five games, there will be immense pressure to change the OC. I think Gilmore was given a five year deal, knowing what he was facing when he took over for Coen. Things were in bad shape.

[Digby]

No matter what Lembo did some Lehigh fans did not care for him. Quite a few actually.
2021 is the payback.
FIVE YEARS for the Big G?
OUCH!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

All of the above are considerations, except Lembo. He’s obviously in the hunt for the brass ring of a Power 5 HC gig. Every couple years he moves onto another “Assoc. Head Coach” role. Unless things change significantly over the next five games, there will be immense pressure to change the OC. I think Gilmore was given a five year deal, knowing what he was facing when he took over for Coen. Things were in bad shape.

Gilmore has no business being the head coach of Lehigh. You can make all the excuses in the world regarding how bad of shape Lehigh was in after PL titles in 2016 and 2017 but it's such a far reach it's sad. There have been coaches who inherited far worse situations. Bill O'Brien went 8-4 at Penn State in 2012. Dakosty who was literally named head coach at Colgate a few months ago ('Gate stunk in 2019 and went winless in the spring) has found a way to win 2 games and embarrass Gilmore and company.

What is occurring at Lehigh this season (and the spring) is inexcusable do to the fact it was 100% destined to happen because the coaching staff was completely incompetent. I said for the last 6 months Lehigh was headed down a dark, dark road with this staff; worst team in 50 years or more. Everything I have said over the last 18 months has come to fruition! Look it up!! These are terrible mentors of young men! They have no place at Lehigh.

I'm sorry but I'm sick of the sorry ass excuses when it comes to a loser of a football coach. Quite frankly, I don't think he's a very good guy either. When you have address office intimidation and relating to women in the workplace (look it up because he said those things at his intro press conference) there's a serious fundamental flaw. No wonder quality assistants don't want to work for him...

[crusader11]

All of the above are considerations, except Lembo. He’s obviously in the hunt for the brass ring of a Power 5 HC gig. Every couple years he moves onto another “Assoc. Head Coach” role. Unless things change significantly over the next five games, there will be immense pressure to change the OC. I think Gilmore was given a five year deal, knowing what he was facing when he took over for Coen. Things were in bad shape.

I think any chance at a P5 head gig for Lembo went out the door after Ball St. While he resigned from his job there, going 8-16 over his final two seasons ain’t great.

[Digby]

Six games without a TD. What else is there to say?

[ngineer]

No matter what Lembo did some Lehigh fans did not care for him. Quite a few actually.
2021 is the payback.
FIVE YEARS for the Big G?
OUCH!

I think any coach hired under the conditions at the end of 2018 would have required a five year contract to turn things around. Conditions here were far worse than they were at Colgate. Dunlap had a 5 year deal in 1965 and Leckonby did not want to rehire at the end of '69, but President Lewis stepped in and overruled. Following year had the 'winningest' season in about 8 seasons with 4 wins, but big upsets over Rutgers and Delaware. We then went on a tremendous run. Obviously, the jury is still out on what Gilmore will end up with; but at our level, unless there is some kind of improper conduct, as Owl implies, then the contact will be honored. I don't see any alums stepping up to buy out his contract.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think any coach hired under the conditions at the end of 2018 would have required a five year contract to turn things around. Conditions here were far worse than they were at Colgate. Dunlap had a 5 year deal in 1965 and Leckonby did not want to rehire at the end of '69, but President Lewis stepped in and overruled. Following year had the 'winningest' season in about 8 seasons with 4 wins, but big upsets over Rutgers and Delaware. We then went on a tremendous run. Obviously, the jury is still out on what Gilmore will end up with; but at our level, unless there is some kind of improper conduct, as Owl implies, then the contact will be honored. I don't see any alums stepping up to buy out his contract.

What were the conditions? What made them worse? There needs to be substantial fact to back this up rather than just people offering up an "unsubstantiated rationale".

We know Coen was sick and the program was operating with a skeleton staff in 2018. It was not an unprecedented situation in college sports. In fact, Sterrett handled it in a similar manner as Tennessee took on Pat Summit's Alzheimer's diagnosis; honorary head coach for a year or two, staff runs the show. The biggest difference being Summit WAS Tennessee Lady Vols basketball and her presence will never, EVER be replaced. I am a big Coen fan but he was far from "irreplaceable".

How and why did the university leadership allow the football program to fall off the rails to a historic level? By making a tough situation way, way, WAY worse than it needed to be! Sterrett hired a bum coach who was recently fired from a fellow league institution. How can you build up recruiting momentum by doing that? It never inspired energy/optimism from the start! Now it's to the point it has to end because the momentum is so far in the negative. I would NEVER advise a recruit to attend Lehigh right now. They can get a much better academic/athletic experience some where else! Lehigh football is a complete dumpster fire and will continue to be so as long as Gilmore is there!

At our level?!?! A fellow league member, Holy Cross, fired Gilmore midseason! What in the world are you talking about?!?! Lehigh deciding not to fire Gilmore has nothing to do with "peer decision" making. That's a choice made individually as an institution. This belief there is some absolute universal athletic ideology within the PL is a fallacy. The examples of institutional disconnect (facilities, coaching pay, 5th year, scholarship/need base etc.) are numerous!

Ngineer I love you but you're acting as nothing more than a dangerous enabler due to your loyalty to Lehigh! Please step back and read what you're writing! You're making excuse after excuse and blatantly ignoring factual realities (like HC stepping up and firing Gilmore). It's scary....

Lehigh as an institution has failed the football program. The line of decision making, going all the way back to the handling of Coen staying/going for the 2018 season, has led us to this point. This isn't a game of revisionist history/hindsight either. There has been significant scrutiny from the very start.....

[Bogus Megapardus]

To be sure, certain segments of the Patriot League community relish the precipitous decline of Lehigh football.

But the high horse off which Lehigh has been knocked might never have been quite so tall as its fans imagine.

[Lehigh'98]

To be sure, certain segments of the Patriot League community relish the precipitous decline of Lehigh football.

But the high horse off which Lehigh has been knocked might never have been quite so tall as its fans imagine.

It’s been about a decade since we were legitimately on a high horse Mr Bogus. Once the defense fell apart in 2014 and recruiting started to decline most of us have realized that some type of change was necessary. It never happened and as Owl said, a bad situation was made exponentially worse with the current HC hire. In no world should TG get another year, but I have a sinking feeling he will. There needs to be a complete redo of the staff, with all ties to the past lineage severed. Need some fresh talented faces to right the ship. Not sure if Sterrett has the will for it though at this point in his career.

[Go Green]

A social media post that contained “bias” apparently

https://www.lafayettestudentnews.com/blog/2021/09/10/star-football-player-off-the-field-due-to-a-disciplinary-matter/

Probably comparable to Gruden's emails...

[Pards Rule]

Would Pete Lembo leave South Carolina to come back to Lehigh? I kind of think that's what Sterrett was hoping to get with hiring Gilmore -- reinvigorate the program with those Lehigh teams from the late 90s / early 00s and get the alums and fanbase excited again. Clearly, hasn't worked.

Tim Cramsey seems like a pretty obvious guy that should be in consideration. Why hasn't he gotten a head gig yet?

Mickey Fein (Harvard OC and former Lafayette OC)?

An out-of-the-box one would be Fordham's OC Kevin Decker.

How about Chris Villarrial (St. Francis head coach) -- it seems like he has taken a near impossible job and made St. Francis pretty respectable.

Great Q about Cramsey. I recall the name being bandied about when Lafayette was searching for new HC in 2015. Is it traditional for someone to jump around like Cramsey has?

[Pards Rule]

Probably comparable to Gruden's emails...

And my college roommate and I watched the 2015 Lafayette-Lehigh game with Jon. I have a picture of him holding my pard.

[Bogus Megapardus]

And my college roommate and I watched the 2015 Lafayette-Lehigh game with Jon. I have a picture of him holding my pard.

So the pard was "adjacent" to bias. He'll be doxxed and cancelled, of course.

[Sader87]

I think Gilmore should next coach at Fordham.... xdrunkyx

[Pards Rule]

So the pard was "adjacent" to bias. He'll be doxxed and cancelled, of course.

Gruden wont work college or pros again

[KPSUL]

Would Pete Lembo leave South Carolina to come back to Lehigh? I kind of think that's what Sterrett was hoping to get with hiring Gilmore -- reinvigorate the program with those Lehigh teams from the late 90s / early 00s and get the alums and fanbase excited again. Clearly, hasn't worked.

Tim Cramsey seems like a pretty obvious guy that should be in consideration. Why hasn't he gotten a head gig yet?

Mickey Fein (Harvard OC and former Lafayette OC)?

An out-of-the-box one would be Fordham's OC Kevin Decker.

How about Chris Villarrial (St. Francis head coach) -- it seems like he has taken a near impossible job and made St. Francis pretty respectable.

Tim Cramsey? Kevin Decker? There must be a former UNH QB somewhere who's a not a Head Coach or OC.

[Pard4Life]

I am so tempted to start a new thread "Is Lehigh the worst team in college football?" ... perhaps it could attain New Hampshire-thread status?

[Doc QB]

I'm a little unsure comparisons to Dunlap needing time at Lehigh, and Gilmore being deserving of the same are analogous. Sure, Lehigh was pretty awful when Dunlap arrived. But did the LU powers that be have a track record on his Head Coach abilities like the ones the had little difficulty vetting in Gilmore? He had a track record, and it was not one as Owl said would ignite or excite the fan base.

Sader87 and Crusader 11, gotta help me here...were Gilmore's only successful seasons when he had a transcendent QB named Dom Randolph? Pete Pujals? Because if you hitch your wagon to the successes he had with unique talent like those two, you will risk the same mistake that has now occurred allowing Brisson to stay as OC at LU. When he had Bragalone, Mayes, Pelletier, and Gatelin Casey, on O, we rolled. *****, my 8 yo daughter could call 400 yds per game of offense with those guys.

[crusader11]

Sader87 and Crusader 11, gotta help me here...were Gilmore's only successful seasons when he had a transcendent QB named Dom Randolph? Pete Pujals? Because if you hitch your wagon to the successes he had with unique talent like those two, you will risk the same mistake that has now occurred allowing Brisson to stay as OC at LU. When he had Bragalone, Mayes, Pelletier, and Gatelin Casey, on O, we rolled. *****, my 8 yo daughter could call 400 yds per game of offense with those guys.

Doc, you may get different answers from us, but here goes.

Gilmore was probably the perfect guy to come into the HC program and turn it around after the tragic end to Dan Allen's coaching career and, subsequently, his life. From what I've come to learn, the football team didn't have the best reputation on campus, recruiting had become incredibly difficult (probably not too dissimilar to what Lehigh experienced towards the end of Coen's career) -- HC football was in disarray.

TG came in as a no nonsense guy. He instituted morning runs, breakfast sign-in, mandatory study hall, etc. He effectively ran a bunch of guys off the team.

HC saw success pretty quickly in his second season (6-5, 3-3; close loss to ranked Delaware, a win over highly ranked Lehigh). HC was on an upward trajectory before Randolph got on campus, but he obviously took things to another level. Giving Gilmore a pass for his first season (3-8, 1-5), HC was 48-30 from 2005-2011. HC was 18-15 (11-7) in years where Randolph wasn't at QB (05, 10, 11). Not great, but contributed to the streak of seven straight seasons better than .500 -- something that hadn't been done since the Duffner days.

Interestingly enough, with Pujals as QB, HC only had a better than .500 record in one season. More on that later.

It wasn't just Randolph. HC had some really talented receivers and a good offense line. They had a good OC (Chris Pincince, current New Haven head coach), followed by Mike Pedone who was another good OC.

Gilmore, like any CEO, was a change-maker in the sense that he came into the program and turned things around right away.

I can point to three key problems which led to Gilmore's demise: 1) Being a disciplinarian may have worked at first (it was probably needed), but that shtick grew tiresome and his teams post 2012 didn't respond well to that style. 2) There was a high turnover with assistants. He would work these guys really hard. The continuity with the coaching staff from year to year wasn't great. 3) He and his staff seemingly recruited better without scholarships than when they had them. There simply was less talent in the program in 2017 than there was in 2007.

A roundabout way of answering your question -- yes, of course Randolph played a massive role in Gilmore's better years at HC (this would be the case for any coach), but I think there were other factors at play which contributed to his success and demise.

On a personal level, based on many interactions with Gilmore, I think he's a stand-up, classy guy. Despite not being an HC alum and being fired mid-season, he still wants the school to do well.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I've already mentioned Shippensburg's head coach as a quality candidate. The Raiders are 5-1 this year and racking up points. Closer to South Bethlehem, Kutztown remains one of the top teams in the PSAC East under Jim Clements. The Bears have had winning campaigns in each of Clement's 6 seasons at KU; 39-10 overall record...

These are two guys worth a serious look. The track record is there! Don't give me academic/PL bs as an excuse......

Clements might be the Kutztown coach Ngineer referenced earlier.

[CHIP72]

I've already mentioned Shippensburg's head coach as a quality candidate. The Raiders are 5-1 this year and racking up points. Closer to South Bethlehem, Kutztown remains one of the top teams in the PSAC East under Jim Clements. The Bears have had winning campaigns in each of Clement's 6 seasons at KU; 39-10 overall record...

These are two guys worth a serious look. The track record is there! Don't give me academic/PL bs as an excuse......

Clements might be the Kutztown coach Ngineer referenced earlier.

Shippensburg head coach Mark Maciejewski appears to be a Ship lifer - he got his bachelor's and master's degrees there (and was a grad assistant at his dual alma mater in 1995 and 1996), joined the coaching staff in 2000, and became head coach in 2011.

Jim Clements came to Kutztown in 2014 after 8 successful seasons as the head coach at D3 Delaware Valley in Doylestown. He's never been below .500 in 14 seasons as a head coach. Clements also isn't too old; he's probably in his late 40s.

If we're discussing regional D2 head coaches, another guy to consider is East Stroudsburg's Jimmy Terwilliger. He may need some more experience, but ESU is headed in the right direction in Terwilliger's second full season as the Warriors' head coach. (He took over on an interim basis in 2018 when long-time ESU head coach Denny Douds retired with a couple games remaining in the season and became the official head coach prior to the 2019 season.) Terwilliger, an East Stroudsburg native who stayed at home to play college football and won the Harlon Hill Trophy (the D2 equivalent of the Heisman Trophy) in 2005, was a successful high school head coach at Pleasant Valley (western Monroe County) and assistant at East Stroudsburg HS and Parkland (western Lehigh County) before returning to the college ranks as an assistant at ESU in 2015. Terwilliger is still young, likely only in his mid-30s.

[ngineer]

I've already mentioned Shippensburg's head coach as a quality candidate. The Raiders are 5-1 this year and racking up points. Closer to South Bethlehem, Kutztown remains one of the top teams in the PSAC East under Jim Clements. The Bears have had winning campaigns in each of Clement's 6 seasons at KU; 39-10 overall record...

These are two guys worth a serious look. The track record is there! Don't give me academic/PL bs as an excuse......

Clements might be the Kutztown coach Ngineer referenced earlier. Yep. That's the guy. Not sure what he's making as the HC at Kutztown, but getting him to come in as OC would be certainly worth it. I find it ironic that the Eagles Nation is expressing the same frustrations about their offense OC as we are with ours. Very good RBs, but no scheme to use them. This "RPO" stuff ain't working. I do not agree with everything being run out of the shotgun.

[ngineer]

I'm a little unsure comparisons to Dunlap needing time at Lehigh, and Gilmore being deserving of the same are analogous. Sure, Lehigh was pretty awful when Dunlap arrived. But did the LU powers that be have a track record on his Head Coach abilities like the ones the had little difficulty vetting in Gilmore? He had a track record, and it was not one as Owl said would ignite or excite the fan base.

Sader87 and Crusader 11, gotta help me here...were Gilmore's only successful seasons when he had a transcendent QB named Dom Randolph? Pete Pujals? Because if you hitch your wagon to the successes he had with unique talent like those two, you will risk the same mistake that has now occurred allowing Brisson to stay as OC at LU. When he had Bragalone, Mayes, Pelletier, and Gatelin Casey, on O, we rolled. *****, my 8 yo daughter could call 400 yds per game of offense with those guys.

I would guess the the primary things that attracted LU to Gilmore was his prior experience, here, as the DC 20 years ago, was his defense orientation, which we were in sore need versus offense, where Cecchini would have had the edge. Both were familiar with the school and how it operated and its culture, and both exude a passion for Lehigh. Chick an alum, of course, but Gilmore fell in love with Lehigh while here. One never knows how candidates come across in the interview process, both in terms of personality, but also in terms of exhibiting a 'excitement' for the job. As you state, we had some excellent offensive weapons at the tail end of Coen's tenure which disguised the OC's shallowness of experience.

[Sader87]

Doc, you may get different answers from us, but here goes.

Gilmore was probably the perfect guy to come into the HC program and turn it around after the tragic end to Dan Allen's coaching career and, subsequently, his life. From what I've come to learn, the football team didn't have the best reputation on campus, recruiting had become incredibly difficult (probably not too dissimilar to what Lehigh experienced towards the end of Coen's career) -- HC football was in disarray.

TG came in as a no nonsense guy. He instituted morning runs, breakfast sign-in, mandatory study hall, etc. He effectively ran a bunch of guys off the team.

HC saw success pretty quickly in his second season (6-5, 3-3; close loss to ranked Delaware, a win over highly ranked Lehigh). HC was on an upward trajectory before Randolph got on campus, but he obviously took things to another level. Giving Gilmore a pass for his first season (3-8, 1-5), HC was 48-30 from 2005-2011. HC was 18-15 (11-7) in years where Randolph wasn't at QB (05, 10, 11). Not great, but contributed to the streak of seven straight seasons better than .500 -- something that hadn't been done since the Duffner days.

Interestingly enough, with Pujals as QB, HC only had a better than .500 record in one season. More on that later.

It wasn't just Randolph. HC had some really talented receivers and a good offense line. They had a good OC (Chris Pincince, current New Haven head coach), followed by Mike Pedone who was another good OC.

Gilmore, like any CEO, was a change-maker in the sense that he came into the program and turned things around right away.

I can point to three key problems which led to Gilmore's demise: 1) Being a disciplinarian may have worked at first (it was probably needed), but that shtick grew tiresome and his teams post 2012 didn't respond well to that style. 2) There was a high turnover with assistants. He would work these guys really hard. The continuity with the coaching staff from year to year wasn't great. 3) He and his staff seemingly recruited better without scholarships than when they had them. There simply was less talent in the program in 2017 than there was in 2007.

A roundabout way of answering your question -- yes, of course Randolph played a massive role in Gilmore's better years at HC (this would be the case for any coach), but I think there were other factors at play which contributed to his success and demise.

On a personal level, based on many interactions with Gilmore, I think he's a stand-up, classy guy. Despite not being an HC alum and being fired mid-season, he still wants the school to do well.

I can't really add much to what crusader11 has stated well here. I will say from afar as a fan, it seemed like the HC program had spun off its tracks during the 2nd half of Gilmore's tenure at HC. Losing games in a host of improbable ways, seeming to lose his cool on the sidelines, (as cru11 stated) rumblings of both players and coaches unhappy with how things were being run etc. etc.

It was just time for him to move on long story short....he has the 2nd longest tenure as a HC at HC, 2nd only to HoF coach Dr Eddie Anderson.