Are the Yanks in Trouble???

[GannonFan]

Yes, I dislike the Yanks, I'll get that out there. Not a fan of the Red Sox, per se, but I root for them against the Yanks (pretty much root for anyone against the Yanks). But it was interesting listening to WFAN these past few weeks and how there was/is a surge of opinion that the Yanks are not only a sure thing for the playoffs, but probably for the division as well. Not trying to jump on the Yanks just due to the Angel series (hey, I think the Angels might be the best team in baseball right now) but are the Yanks in trouble of not even making the playoffs? They are 6 back of the Red Sox, and truth be told, I never thought they could catch them anyway - not enough games between them left (only 6 I think) and the Red Sox pitching is just to good to allow a full-scale breakdown.

But what doesn't get a lot of press, and probably because it's happening on the West Coast, is that the Mariners are playing great ball right now. Officially they are 2.5 games in front of the Yanks for the Wild Card, but Seattle has 3 games in hand against them so that could actually swell to 4 games ahead if they win out. 4 games isn't impossible to make up, and they do play each other in New York in a 3 game set in September, but I don't think they Yanks are a sure thing to catch Seattle, especially the way they are playing.

Of course, is all of it moot anyway? If the Yanks can't catch the Red Sox, then even if they got the Wild Card they'd be looking at an opening series with the Angels - I wouldn't like that matchup at all from the New York side of things.

[UNHWildCats]

Dont forget NY has another 6 games with Baltimore too :p

[TheValleyRaider]

The Angels series is a tough one to get a read on this team because the Yanks haven't played well against them for years. Garret Anderson would be a first-ballot Hall of Famer if he played the Yankees everyday. Stupid Rally Monkey. The other unfortunate thing is that the Yankees play this nemesis while Boston gets Tampa, which means games get added to the lead. Tough, but that's life.

The lack of belief in Seattle stems from 2 things: 1) the fact that they weren't that good a year ago and aren't much different as a team (this improvement still confuses me), and 2) their starting pitching is pretty weak. On the other hand, it's nearly the end of August and here they are, leading the Wild Card. I'm slightly biased, but I still think the Yankees catch them.

Boston's road in has some potential traps as well. They haven't played the Blue Jays well in recent years, the Orioles are a much improved team in recent weeks, and they get to close out the year with 2 strong finishing teams in Minnesota and Oakland. Plus their 6 with the Yankees. 6 games over 5 1/2 weeks is doable, if not very difficult. 4 games over that same time seems more likely.

[bluehenbillk]

Are the Yanks in trouble?? They were in trouble in May. Hughes is unproven, Mussina is washed up, Clemens is up & down, Rivera isn't the same anymore & outside of Chamberlain pitching single digit games, their set-up guys aren't very good either. First base has been a lost cause this year & teams looking for clutch hitting & Bobby Abreu are not synonymous terms.

[Reed Rothchild]

Yes, they are in trouble. They gave up too much ground early in the year and the changes they have made are great but are too late. Mussina is washed up and I'm tired of watching him get rocked every outing he starts. He's not even starter-caliber anymore. Kei Igawa was a terrible waste. The hitting is fine but they can't win if they are getting 18 put up on them. Plus, even if they make the playoffs they will probably have to play the Angles first and will get swept out if that is the case. The future might be bright but this year is not the time. Hughes, Chamberlain, Wang, Phillips, Cabrera, Cano will be the nucleus for years to come but Igawa, Myers, Farnsworth, Abreu (early this year), Giambi, and Damon have held the yanks back too much. I just hope that George doesn't get rid of Torre due to the ineptness of Brian Cashman.

[Reed Rothchild]

Dont forget NY has another 6 games with Baltimore too :p

Yes, but Baltimore has been a thorn in their side all year. This is very strange as the Yanks usually dominate the O's.

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm still convinced Torre retires after the year, regardless of how it ends. Pettite has been a big-game pitcher for NY for years, and I bet he comes through again tonight, setting up for a good series in Detroit this weekend.

Maybe I'm just optimistic, but weren't these the same questions people were asking about Boston this past weekend when the Sox split with these same Angels and NY took 3 of 4 from the Tigers?

[GannonFan]

I'm still convinced Torre retires after the year, regardless of how it ends. Pettite has been a big-game pitcher for NY for years, and I bet he comes through again tonight, setting up for a good series in Detroit this weekend.

Maybe I'm just optimistic, but weren't these the same questions people were asking about Boston this past weekend when the Sox split with these same Angels and NY took 3 of 4 from the Tigers?

Nah, I always thought the Yanks were aiming for the Wild Card - tough to come back from 14 games down - you have to play out of your minds just to get close, and then when the yo-yo goes back the other way all of a sudden you're back to 6 or 7 games out.

If the Yanks had better pitching I think they could make a run at the Sox, but when you put Hughes and Mussina and even Clemens out there 2 or 3 times every 5 days it just kills momentum. Even when the Yank's offense was on fire over the past month the pitching wasn't very good - the staff ERA was up around 5.00. If the offense has an off night or a couple of games, the pitching doesn't pick them up.

I think Cashman finally has the team pointed in the right direction - they finally seem to have young pitching that is going to help them in the future - but right now, Hughes isn't ready, Chamberlain looks great but he's just one guy, the starting pitching outside of Wang is close to poor and Wang's struggled of late, and the bullpen is a mess.

If they could fix the pitching, I think they could make noise, but it's hard to make up ground when you keep giving it back in chunks.

Oh, and I'm still a believer in the Abreu curse - he's insidious and just saps energy from a team.

[UNHWildCats]

The Angels series is a tough one to get a read on this team because the Yanks haven't played well against them for years. Garret Anderson would be a first-ballot Hall of Famer if he played the Yankees everyday. Stupid Rally Monkey. The other unfortunate thing is that the Yankees play this nemesis while Boston gets Tampa, which means games get added to the lead. Tough, but that's life.

The lack of belief in Seattle stems from 2 things: 1) the fact that they weren't that good a year ago and aren't much different as a team (this improvement still confuses me), and 2) their starting pitching is pretty weak. On the other hand, it's nearly the end of August and here they are, leading the Wild Card. I'm slightly biased, but I still think the Yankees catch them.

Boston's road in has some potential traps as well. They haven't played the Blue Jays well in recent years, the Orioles are a much improved team in recent weeks, and they get to close out the year with 2 strong finishing teams in Minnesota and Oakland. Plus their 6 with the Yankees. 6 games over 5 1/2 weeks is doable, if not very difficult. 4 games over that same time seems more likely.


Hey we both play Tampa the same amount of games each year so as long as you beat on them like we do then it all evens out at the end of the season. Whats killing you guys is the games against Baltimore.

Also didn't see you complaining about digging into Boston's lead whil;e playing the likes of Texas, Kansas City and Tampa earlier while Boston was playing Detroit and Cleveland.

[UNHWildCats]

Yes, but Baltimore has been a thorn in their side all year. This is very strange as the Yanks usually dominate the O's.


That was my point. Seattle was mentioned as tough games coming up and I wanted to remind him that Baltimore is gonna be tough for 6 games.

Ah oh ya while were at it theres the matter of 6 games with Boston tooo... Boston will win the division by atleast 10 when its all said and done and NY will be home in october not out on the field playing.

[UNHWildCats]

I'm still convinced Torre retires after the year, regardless of how it ends. Pettite has been a big-game pitcher for NY for years, and I bet he comes through again tonight, setting up for a good series in Detroit this weekend.

Maybe I'm just optimistic, but weren't these the same questions people were asking about Boston this past weekend when the Sox split with these same Angels and NY took 3 of 4 from the Tigers?

Of course Torre is done, do you think Joe Girardi would be sitting around doing YES games if he wasnt

[Reed Rothchild]

That was my point. Seattle was mentioned as tough games coming up and I wanted to remind him that Baltimore is gonna be tough for 6 games.

Ah oh ya while were at it theres the matter of 6 games with Boston tooo... Boston will win the division by atleast 10 when its all said and done and NY will be home in october not out on the field playing.

The Yanks can beat Boston (see the Boston Massacre). They match up better with their pitching than they do with other teams. But, it will be too late by that time.

[TheValleyRaider]

Hey we both play Tampa the same amount of games each year so as long as you beat on them like we do then it all evens out at the end of the season. Whats killing you guys is the games against Baltimore.

Also didn't see you complaining about digging into Boston's lead while playing the likes of Texas, Kansas City and Tampa earlier while Boston was playing Detroit and Cleveland.

I was hardly whining about the schedule. My point was that at the same time the Yankees are playing the bane of their existance, Boston gets to play a team that they do quite well against. Yanks lose, Sox win, ergo, Sox lead extends. It's nothing I or any other rational Yankee fan couldn't have told you going into these series. Although, for all our troubles vs. the Angels and O's, the Yankees are 9-1 vs. those Central powerhouses Detroit and Cleveland.

What I was pointing out was that suddenly this is cause for people to suddenly say "Gasp! The Yankees have lost 2 games in the last 2 days? Could they be done?" when merely 2 days ago, the Yankees had cut it to 4 games by taking 3 of 4 from Detroit and Boston splitting with the Angels. 2 days ago, these were the same questions being asked about Boston's lead. I think the Yankees will play quite well over the last 5 1/2 weeks. 6 games better than Boston? I'm not sure about that, although having 6 games left vs. the Sox can't hurt too much when chasing a team.

[Cleets]

boys and girls - sports fans - baseball lovers...
I got three words for you:
"It's going down to the wire.."

[TheValleyRaider]

I got three words for you:
"It's going down to the wire.."

Only confirms what I always thought about the Harvard Math Department xeyebrowx xsmiley_wix

[UNHWildCats]

The Yanks can beat Boston (see the Boston Massacre). They match up better with their pitching than they do with other teams. But, it will be too late by that time.


The Yankees of 2007 are not the Yankees of 2006.

[UNHWildCats]

I was hardly whining about the schedule. My point was that at the same time the Yankees are playing the bane of their existance, Boston gets to play a team that they do quite well against. Yanks lose, Sox win, ergo, Sox lead extends. It's nothing I or any other rational Yankee fan couldn't have told you going into these series. Although, for all our troubles vs. the Angels and O's, the Yankees are 9-1 vs. those Central powerhouses Detroit and Cleveland.

What I was pointing out was that suddenly this is cause for people to suddenly say "Gasp! The Yankees have lost 2 games in the last 2 days? Could they be done?" when merely 2 days ago, the Yankees had cut it to 4 games by taking 3 of 4 from Detroit and Boston splitting with the Angels. 2 days ago, these were the same questions being asked about Boston's lead. I think the Yankees will play quite well over the last 5 1/2 weeks. 6 games better than Boston? I'm not sure about that, although having 6 games left vs. the Sox can't hurt too much when chasing a team.

And if we played the same schedule at the same time the lead never would have gotten down to where it was. NY capitlized on an easy stretch of schedule when Boston was in a tough stretch. Now Boston and New York are reversed and Boston is in the process of putting their lead back where it was

[DaveK]

The Yankees are not going to catch Boston. I wouldn't bet on them to make the playoffs as a wild card either, but of course they do still have a decent chance. Should they happen to make the wild card they will be destroyed by the Angels in the ALDS. They simply aren't that good anymore, and they're stuck with the biggest choker of all-time in E-Rod. For a guy with such great stats, he sure stinks it up damn near every time his team really needs him to come through in the clutch. Funny how Seattle got better after they got rid of him and Texas regressed after acquiring him. Then as soon as he went to Yankees they regressed while the Rangers showed immediate improved without him. Great player on paper, but a loser on the field.

[TheValleyRaider]

The Yankees are not going to catch Boston. I wouldn't bet on them to make the playoffs as a wild card either, but of course they do still have a decent chance. Should they happen to make the wild card they will be destroyed by the Angels in the ALDS. They simply aren't that good anymore, and they're stuck with the biggest choker of all-time in E-Rod. For a guy with such great stats, he sure stinks it up damn near every time his team really needs him to come through in the clutch. Funny how Seattle got better after they got rid of him and Texas regressed after acquiring him. Then as soon as he went to Yankees they regressed while the Rangers showed immediate improved without him. Great player on paper, but a loser on the field.

xrolleyesx
A-Rod's "non-clutch" hitting is a big reason the deficit was only 14 games earlier this year.

And what do you mean when you say "they aren't that good anymore"? Compared to what? The Dynasty teams of 1996-2001? Yeah, but no one in the Majors this year is that good. Not good enough to catch a team they trail by 2 games? I don't think so. Even with their rough start, the Yanks still have 70 wins, 4th best in the AL behind Boston, LA, and Seattle, and 6 fewer than the leaders. Imagine if they didn't start the season as poorly as they did with injuries and rookies? I know you can't really count it that way, but this is not the same team that played in April/May, and is hardly the shell of their past that people keep trying to convince themselves of.

[bulldog10jw]

The Yanks can beat Boston (see the Boston Massacre). They match up better with their pitching than they do with other teams. But, it will be too late by that time.

Boston Massacre = Ancient History
Yankees blowing a 3-0 series lead= more relevant

[UNHWildCats]

Imagine if Ortiz and Papelbon and Varitek and Clement and Wells and Schilling and Coco Crisp and Wily Mo Pena and Keith Foulke and Alex Gonzalez and Jon Lester and Trot Nixon hadn't been on the DL last year.... the Boston Masacre wouldn't be anything more then a footnote on the Yankees picking up minimal ground on the Sox.

[TheValleyRaider]

Boston Massacre = Ancient History
Yankees blowing a 3-0 series lead= more relevant

How exactly are either of those relevant to the 2007 AL East race? xconfusedx xeyebrowx

[lucchesicourt]

The Boston Massacre, I need some refreshing on this. Was Manny and David playing in this series, and were the regular starters and Papelbon available during this series? As I recall, they were not. So, the series really was not against a healthy Sox squad. Or do you Yankee fans just not want to recognize the difference from that squad and the current squad?

[UNHWildCats]

How exactly are either of those relevant to the 2007 AL East race? xconfusedx xeyebrowx


Dont jump all over him, a Yankee fan was the one who brought up the Boston Massacre.

[Reed Rothchild]

Imagine if Ortiz and Papelbon and Varitek and Clement and Wells and Schilling and Coco Crisp and Wily Mo Pena and Keith Foulke and Alex Gonzalez and Jon Lester and Trot Nixon hadn't been on the DL last year.... the Boston Masacre wouldn't be anything more then a footnote on the Yankees picking up minimal ground on the Sox.

So thats just like saying that had the Yanks not lost most of their rotation including Mussina, Pavano, Hughes, Karstens, Rasner, Damon, Giambi, Doug M the Yankees deficit would not have been so large if at all.

[Reed Rothchild]

The Boston Massacre, I need some refreshing on this. Was Manny and David playing in this series, and were the regular starters and Papelbon available during this series? As I recall, they were not. So, the series really was not against a healthy Sox squad. Or do you Yankee fans just not want to recognize the difference from that squad and the current squad?

Hey it wasn't the Yanks fault that Manny quit. The Yanks haven't been healthy this year either.

[Reed Rothchild]

When the 2 teams play, either one is capable of winning. That is why the series is pretty much split over the last couple of years.

[UNHWildCats]

So thats just like saying that had the Yanks not lost most of their rotation including Mussina, Pavano, Hughes, Karstens, Rasner, Damon, Giambi, Doug M the Yankees deficit would not have been so large if at all.

My post was in response to a Yankee fan making that point about the Yankees staff. My point is injuries happen to everyone so sit back and deal with it xcoolx

[Reed Rothchild]

My post was in response to a Yankee fan making that point about the Yankees staff. My point is injuries happen to everyone so sit back and deal with it xcoolx

I'm trying to deal with it and its tough!!! xthumbsupx

[UNHWildCats]

I'm trying to deal with it and its tough!!! xthumbsupx


Just pop in the UNI/UNH game, that should help xbawlingx

[TheValleyRaider]

Dont jump all over him, a Yankee fan was the one who brought up the Boston Massacre.

That doesn't make either one of them relevant. And I certainly can't see how something from 2004 is more relevant that something from 2006, if indeed either of them matter at all.

[UNHWildCats]

2004 ALCS is more relevent then a 5 games series in August between two teams of which neither made it to the ALCS.

[TheValleyRaider]

2004 ALCS is more relevent then a 5 games series in August between two teams of which neither made it to the ALCS.

How?

By the way, 5 games back now :D Crisis averted? Stay tuned....

[CopperCat]

I'd say the Red Sox are in a bit of trouble themselves when they can't beat the friggin' Devil Rays when the final score is 2-1.xbangx xbangx xbangx

[Cleets]

I'd say the Red Sox are in a bit of trouble themselves when they can't beat the friggin' Devil Rays when the final score is 2-1.xbangx xbangx xbangx

Bingo...!!!!

14 men left on base... (Yikes) xeyebrowx

[UNHWildCats]

I'd say the Red Sox are in a bit of trouble themselves when they can't beat the friggin' Devil Rays when the final score is 2-1.xbangx xbangx xbangx


9-3 against Tampa thus far this season.... hardly something to get worried about.

Interestingl;y all three losses were started by Daisuke Matsuzaka... He didnt pitch bad again 2 hits 2 runs 8 Ks in 6 innings the lone mistake was a 2 run homer by BJ Upton.

at the rate the Sox are going with TB they will finish about 13-5 against them.... hardly something to cry about.

[Reed Rothchild]

Well, Sheffield is out for the Tigers (only a matter of time before he got hurt) this might help the Yanks in their upcoming series in the D.

[GannonFan]

Well, Sheffield is out for the Tigers (only a matter of time before he got hurt) this might help the Yanks in their upcoming series in the D.


Agreed, Sheff can play - Tigers aren't the same without him. Yanks need to split at the worse against the Tigers - not a lot of games left.

[CopperCat]

9-3 against Tampa thus far this season.... hardly something to get worried about.

Interestingl;y all three losses were started by Daisuke Matsuzaka... He didnt pitch bad again 2 hits 2 runs 8 Ks in 6 innings the lone mistake was a 2 run homer by BJ Upton.

at the rate the Sox are going with TB they will finish about 13-5 against them.... hardly something to cry about.

13-5 against other teams would be a record that I would be proud of. But the Sox should be able to put at least 8 guys on base with 4 RBI's against the friggin' D-Rays. 16-2 would be more like it.

[citdog]

i really had high hope when i read the title of this thread, but alas it is about baseball!:( xsmiley_wix

[GannonFan]

13-5 against other teams would be a record that I would be proud of. But the Sox should be able to put at least 8 guys on base with 4 RBI's against the friggin' D-Rays. 16-2 would be more like it.

It's baseball, it just doesn't work that way - if they go 13-5 against Tampa that's a .722 win percentage - heck, in baseball you're an all-time great team if you win 2 out of 3 games. Every now and then you lose to bad teams.

[JoltinJoe]

The Boston Massacre, I need some refreshing on this. Was Manny and David playing in this series, and were the regular starters and Papelbon available during this series? As I recall, they were not. So, the series really was not against a healthy Sox squad. Or do you Yankee fans just not want to recognize the difference from that squad and the current squad?

Manny and Ortiz both played in the series, as did Papelbon. Also, the Sox regular starters also played. Lester, Beckett, Schilling and Wells started four of the five games.

Varitek was out but he was the only significant Sox injury that I recall during that series.

If you doubt me, check this espn.com link and then work you way back through the prior days:

Yanks-Sox Boxscore, 8/21/2006 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=260821102)

[UNHWildCats]

Manny and Ortiz both played in the series, as did Papelbon. Also, the Sox regular starters also played. Lester, Beckett, Schilling and Wells started four of the five games.

Varitek was out but he was the only significant Sox injury that I recall during that series.

If you doubt me, check this espn.com link and then work you way back through the prior days:

Yanks-Sox Boxscore, 8/21/2006 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=260821102)

you didnt pick a good box score to use No Youkilis... Nixon was hurt... No Gonzalez....

Of course you picked the one pitchers duel of the weekend.... Also Lester while not yet diagnosed...tjhat came a week or so later... was suffering from cancer...he also wasnt a regular starter but filling in for a hurt starter.

But yes Ortiz and Manny (to an extent) did play the series.