OVC Future

[rbhale55]

As the OVC quickly dissolves, are there any schools being considered for membership? Should the remaining schools allow the OVC to discontinue operations and fend for themselves? Should the survivors consider dropping down to division II? The OVC, as it stands now, simply cannot compete (especially football).

[mvfcfan]

If the OVC could get WIU and get Morehead State to give scholarships they would be in good shape as long as they didn't lose anyone else. The problem is that if they add WIU, then there's no guarantee that the ASUN won't try to poach TSU or Murray State. The remaining schools need to get together and decide what they want to do. Are they all in for the OVC or do they want to try something else?

[skinny_uncle]

As the OVC quickly dissolves, are there any schools being considered for membership? Should the remaining schools allow the OVC to discontinue operations and fend for themselves? Should the survivors consider dropping down to division II? The OVC, as it stands now, simply cannot compete (especially football).

Dropping to D2 would also affect basketball, so I don't see that happening.

[ST_Lawson]

Not directly related to football, but there's a strong rumor that Belmont will be leaving the OVC for the MVC, announcing next week.

I know that we often get mentioned in discussions of the OVC bringing in teams, but my hope is that enough other teams decide to bail that the OVC essentially just packs it up as a conference and the MVFC, MVC, and Summit end up picking up a few of the more northwestern members of the OVC.

[mvfcfan]

It's a sad day, but the OVC is dead. I hope EIU is talking to the Summit League right about now. Murray State will be going to the MVC too, just wait.

[Professor Chaos]

It's a sad day, but the OVC is dead. I hope EIU is talking to the Summit League right about now. Murray State will be going to the MVC too, just wait.
It would be interesting to see where Murray St football lands then. Does the MVFC expand again to get back an even number of teams (12) or do they try for the Big South.

[Laker]

Not directly related to football, but there's a strong rumor that Belmont will be leaving the OVC for the MVC, announcing next week.

I know that we often get mentioned in discussions of the OVC bringing in teams, but my hope is that enough other teams decide to bail that the OVC essentially just packs it up as a conference and the MVFC, MVC, and Summit end up picking up a few of the more northwestern members of the OVC.

Breaking: Belmont expected to depart OVC for MVC (extrapointsmb.com) (https://www.extrapointsmb.com/conference-realignment-mvc-belmont-ovc/?fbclid=IwAR1_ZUUbzRzSCyEW5nln-eI7dYUeLt90UEp2bsAOTeF1kLDCN_QrGOqwHv0)

[mvfcfan]

It would be interesting to see where Murray St football lands then. Does the MVFC expand again to get back an even number of teams (12) or do they try for the Big South.

MVFC

[Reign of Terrier]

My guess, from the outside looking in: I think it'll break up and I think the Big South, after losing KSU and UNA, will probably try to raid the OVC for at least football teams.

You're just not going to see the OVC raid the Socon. The basketball conference is too good and the football conference is better than what's left of the OVC. I don't see much of a value-add for either sport from the OVC to the Socon (correct me if I'm wrong though!).

Meanwhile, the CAA probably doesn't make any financial sense for OVC teams (remember, the CAA goes up far geographically) and like the socon, the CAA probably doesn't want them.

The big south is really the only one that makes sense to me, because they need more teams and have shown a tendency to add them. Maybe the MVFC does something as well, but I would very surprised.

[mvfcfan]

MVC and Summit schools play in the MVFC. Just like when UND was added to both, Murray would be added to both. Besides that the MVC actually runs the MVFC. They're in the same office, with the same name, very similar logos, and separated by double sided duct tape.

[TheRevSFA]

They should call up the Southland......

[Baron Sardonicus]

Western Illinois is going to be the Joe Manchin of FCS conference realignment. xsmiley_wix

[katss07]

It’d be a clear step down in basketball, but I’m not really sure they have better options right now. Murray State is going to leave soon, so other schools should probably look to do the same. UT Martin and SEMO should give Tommy a call and see what the good ol Southland has to offer.

Or maybe WIU joins and this whole Belmont thing means next to nothing for football.

[solohawks]

They really need to seal the deal with WIU.

If Murray leaves too they are at 5 football.

They must have WIU

WIU puts them back at 6 with football assuming Murray St. leaves too.

Work with the Southland with a scheduling agreement to ensure everyone has a 6th guaranteed game after the 5 conferences games the OVC and Southland can provide.

OVC needs to get soccer up and running with the Southland too.

Give Chicago St. at least a place to play soccer and create and OVC Soccer league of WIU, EIU, SIU-E, Chicago St, UIW, Houston Baptist under the OVC banner.

This way if Tennessee State ever decides to leave, the OVC will still meet NCAA requirements despite not sponsoring football and the remaining football schools can play football under the Southland banner.

[Laker]

Calling D2 University of Southern Indiana - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Southern_Indiana)

[solohawks]

Looking at the OVC footprint, are any D2 public Missouri football schools interested in moving up?

Missouri S&T of the Great Lakes Valley conference or a MIAA school?

[clenz]

I would put money on Murray State joining the Valley as well.

Belmont leaving is the final nail in that coffin that already had 99 in it. There isn't a basketball option out there, which is where Murray's interest lies, that can match the Valley or come within the same universe.

The MVC will be at 12 (maybe 14 pending what UTA/UALR do after getting the boot from the SBC) and the MVFC will be at 12 with 6 MVC, 5 Summit and 1 Horizon.

Split into 2 divisions of 5 games with 3 cross over games. It is what it is. The conference is going to get multiple bids every year, the auto doesn't mean much.

In my mind this locks WIU into the Summit even more. The OVC has travel issues that are as bad/worse than the Summit. It's a far worse league and likely doesn't really survive anyway. They might as well just hang on for dear life as long as they can in the Summit. Should the Summit make a move where WIU can't hang on anymore I wouldn't be shocked to see the football playing Valley schools work with WIU to negotiate a way into the Horizon and join YSU as HL members in the MVFC. The 5 schools in the Valley now (Murray doesn't have the history) have nearly 50 years history with WIU. They want to protect the future of the Valley, and there is always a small threat of Summit schools doing something else with football. Working to keep YSU/WIU in the HL/MVFC is protecting the MVFC and the Valley in general. I wouldn't be shocked if the Valley made backroom deals to schedule H/Hs in basketball and volleyball for a handful of years following the move to work on scheduling issues and boosting the HL up a bit.

[solohawks]

The OVC has travel issues that are as bad/worse than the Summit.

They do?

[Baron Sardonicus]

Wow. We sure love conspiracy theories on this board.

Not holding my breath expecting the OVC to fold. They'll add Western Illinois. Done.

Question worth debating is whether YSU should be offered assoc football membership. That would be a win-win. But merely adding WIU would allow them to keep the fb playoff bid, even if Murray leaves.

[clenz]

They do?

For WIU? Yes especially if they make moves to D2s in the south.


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[Mocs123]

I'm not sure if either party is interested but the SoCon would be a big step up for Murray in BB.

I know the OVC has been after Chattanooga, but I'm just not sure what they have to offer at this point.

[Reign of Terrier]

I would love Murray State in the Socon, but the valley makes more sense.

[ysubigred]

I would put money on Murray State joining the Valley as well.

Belmont leaving is the final nail in that coffin that already had 99 in it. There isn't a basketball option out there, which is where Murray's interest lies, that can match the Valley or come within the same universe.

The MVC will be at 12 (maybe 14 pending what UTA/UALR do after getting the boot from the SBC) and the MVFC will be at 12 with 6 MVC, 5 Summit and 1 Horizon.

Split into 2 divisions of 5 games with 3 cross over games. It is what it is. The conference is going to get multiple bids every year, the auto doesn't mean much.

In my mind this locks WIU into the Summit even more. The OVC has travel issues that are as bad/worse than the Summit. It's a far worse league and likely doesn't really survive anyway. They might as well just hang on for dear life as long as they can in the Summit. Should the Summit make a move where WIU can't hang on anymore I wouldn't be shocked to see the football playing Valley schools work with WIU to negotiate a way into the Horizon and join YSU as HL members in the MVFC. The 5 schools in the Valley now (Murray doesn't have the history) have nearly 50 years history with WIU. They want to protect the future of the Valley, and there is always a small threat of Summit schools doing something else with football. Working to keep YSU/WIU in the HL/MVFC is protecting the MVFC and the Valley in general. I wouldn't be shocked if the Valley made backroom deals to schedule H/Hs in basketball and volleyball for a handful of years following the move to work on scheduling issues and boosting the HL up a bit.YSU needs to find an all sports conference. The MVFC is a great conference but the travel and lack of nature rivalrys in my opinion made home attendance nose dive. Even when NDSU shows up there are less fans then when Slippery Rock came to the castle.

YSU was an OVC member in the beginning but left to be independents for some political reasons if I remember right.

I have a feeling YSU isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The dud AD we have can't get anything right..

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[JSUSoutherner]

Should the survivors consider dropping down to division II?
They probably should have been considering that before we left, truth be told.

[clenz]

I think it would an interesting move for the summit to attack the ovc.

EIU, SEMO, SIUE

Football schools which would give them their own league which do many fans have been calling for.

Gives WIU life in terms of budgeting issues.

Create a fight with the MVC over Murray. Can’t imagine Murray doesn’t not go with the better basketball fit but take a shot, right?


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[clenz]

YSU needs to find an all sports conference. The MVFC is a great conference but the travel and lack of nature rivalrys in my opinion made home attendance nose dive. Even when NDSU shows up there are less fans then when Slippery Rock came to the castle.

YSU was an OVC member in the beginning but left to be independents for some political reasons if I remember right.

I have a feeling YSU isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The dud AD we have can't get anything right..

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Fans aren’t showing up because your program has been **** for 17 years. Not because NDSu flew in from 1000 miles away. If you aren’t drawing fans for a conference that gets you home games with 5 or 6 top 20 ranked teams you aren’t drawing for anyone left in the OVC. Just throwing that out there to start.

Would an all sports conference be better?
Sure. YSU, however, can’t get along with anyone else. Have an inferiority complex that makes them think they are too good for the fcs. That causes them to thumb their noses as the CAA, NEC, OVC, everyone. The Gateway took on YSU only because we were desperate for members at that point. It’s not just your current admin, it’s all of your previous admin going back to when the fcs was formed. The Gateway was your fourth attempt at an alignment since the FCS was formed just 20 years earlier.

The CAA doesn’t want you - and the CAA is a football only conference just like the Valley. They are also full at 12, well 11 when JMU leaves but I don’t see YSU high on their list for a replacement.

The OVC might take you out of desperation like the Gateway in 97, but your programs, fans, and admin will never be happy there and won’t last a decade before you try to move again. You think you don’t have rivals with a conference you’ve been in 25 years? Good luck with Tennessee State, Tennessee Tech, Tennessee-Martin, SEMO and EIU. I’m sure they’ll be massive draws because your volleyball team plays them and your 700 person basketball crowd gets fired up to go to a football game because a game between SEMO and YSU got heated the February before.


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[ysubigred]

Fans aren’t showing up because your program has been **** for 17 years. Not because NDSu flew in from 1000 miles away. If you aren’t drawing fans for a conference that gets you home games with 5 or 6 top 20 ranked teams you aren’t drawing for anyone left in the OVC. Just throwing that out there to start.

Would an all sports conference be better?
Sure. YSU, however, can’t get along with anyone else. Have an inferiority complex that makes them think they are too good for the fcs. That causes them to thumb their noses as the CAA, NEC, OVC, everyone. The Gateway took on YSU only because we were desperate for members at that point. It’s not just your current admin, it’s all of your previous admin going back to when the fcs was formed. The Gateway was your fourth attempt at an alignment since the FCS was formed just 20 years earlier.

The CAA doesn’t want you - and the CAA is a football only conference just like the Valley. They are also full at 12, well 11 when JMU leaves but I don’t see YSU high on their list for a replacement.

The OVC might take you out of desperation like the Gateway in 97, but your programs, fans, and admin will never be happy there and won’t last a decade before you try to move again. You think you don’t have rivals with a conference you’ve been in 25 years? Good luck with Tennessee State, Tennessee Tech, Tennessee-Martin, SEMO and EIU. I’m sure they’ll be massive draws because your volleyball team plays them and your 700 person basketball crowd gets fired up to go to a football game because a game between SEMO and YSU got heated the February before.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDamn son.. penis envy? Know what in the hell you're talking about..

UNI the laughing stock of the playoffs.. one and done.. I think y'all get selected most every year for one of the committees darling schools to get a W..

Like I said YSUs attendance did a nose dive after entering the MVFC.. 2016 YSU won more playoff games than PUNI did in 10 years lol.. and the attendance was still ****..

YSU is here to stay to enjoy the MVFC..

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[JSUSoutherner]

Damn son.. penis envy? Know what in the hell you're talking about..

UNI the laughing stock of the playoffs.. one and done.. I think y'all get selected most every year for one of the committees darling schools to get a W..

Like I said YSUs attendance did a nose dive after entering the MCFC.. 2016 YSU won more playoff games than PUNI did in 10 years lol..



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He's not wrong. Nobody in the OVC will get the YSU fanbase excited. We left for a reason.

[ysubigred]

YSU has no interests in going anywhere.. especially the OVC



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[ysubigred]

He's not wrong. Nobody in the OVC will get the YSU fanbase excited. We left for a reason.Actually like where you're team is.. shaping up to be a meat grinder conference..

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[clenz]

Damn son.. penis envy? Know what in the hell you're talking about..

UNI the laughing stock of the playoffs.. one and done.. I think y'all get selected most every year for one of the committees darling schools to get a W..

Like I said YSUs attendance did a nose dive after entering the MVFC.. 2016 YSU won more playoff games than PUNI did in 10 years lol.. and the attendance was still ****..

YSU is here to stay to enjoy the MVFC..

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You're full of **** and dumb as **** but we've all seen that play out the last few years. Trust me when I say there is exactly zero things about YSU, or Youngstown, I have any kind of envy for.

Your admin and fans are insufferable **** bags that have burned every bridge they've crossed, and pre-bombed every potential bridge they come to with how they've acted for the last 40 years.

YSU joined the Valley in 97. I'd bet your attendance didn't tank until post 05 when you're program took the biggest nose dive it could. I could pull numbers, but right now I don't feel like it.

If you can't draw for NDSU, SDSU, or teams you've been playing for 3 decades (and into your fourth different decade) yearly that are top 15-20 teams you aren't going to draw for anyone. I'd make a joke that Slippery Rock isn't walking through the entrace to your stadium anytime soon, but you don't even need Slippery Rock to embarass you. We've seen NEC teams walk into your facility and take you to OT and beat you.

The schools arrogance through the 90s burned everyone around you. You'll never get an FBS move. Your football program is a joke at this point, and sadly they are still your best athletic program somehow. There are D2 leagues that look at your athletic results and attendances and go "Yeah. We aren't that desperate".

As I said, you're program isn't drawing **** no matter what. It has nothing to do with "natural rivals". You just admitted that having a winning program won't even get you fans.

The OVC is desperate enough they might throw you a life line to get out of the Valley, and please take it. The feeling is mutual when it comes to hatred of you having to be in the Valley. Maybe in the OVC you can finish top half more than once a decade. Even now the OVC doesn't appear to have any interest in YSU as a full member. They are looking at D2 schools. There was a list circulated last week that listed potential expansion members and they were all D2 schools (probably what expedited Belmont getting the **** out with zero warning or rumor a head of time).

YSU adds zero value to any conference in any sport. Which sadly means we are stuck with you until you ****s decide that you're too good for a conference again and try go to indy a second time.

[ysubigred]

You're full of **** and dumb as **** but we've all seen that play out the last few years. Trust me when I say there is exactly zero things about YSU, or Youngstown, I have any kind of envy for.

Your admin and fans are insufferable **** bags that have burned every bridge they've crossed, and pre-bombed every potential bridge they come to with how they've acted for the last 40 years.

YSU joined the Valley in 97. I'd bet your attendance didn't tank until post 05 when you're program took the biggest nose dive it could. I could pull numbers, but right now I don't feel like it.

If you can't draw for NDSU, SDSU, or teams you've been playing for 3 decades (and into your fourth different decade) yearly that are top 15-20 teams you aren't going to draw for anyone. I'd make a joke that Slippery Rock isn't walking through the entrace to your stadium anytime soon, but you don't even need Slippery Rock to embarass you. We've seen NEC teams walk into your facility and take you to OT and beat you.

The schools arrogance through the 90s burned everyone around you. You'll never get an FBS move. Your football program is a joke at this point, and sadly they are still your best athletic program somehow. There are D2 leagues that look at your athletic results and attendances and go "Yeah. We aren't that desperate".

As I said, you're program isn't drawing **** no matter what. It has nothing to do with "natural rivals". You just admitted that having a winning program won't even get you fans.

The OVC is desperate enough they might throw you a life line to get out of the Valley, and please take it. The feeling is mutual when it comes to hatred of you having to be in the Valley. Maybe in the OVC you can finish top half more than once a decade. Even now the OVC doesn't appear to have any interest in YSU as a full member. They are looking at D2 schools. There was a list circulated last week that listed potential expansion members and they were all D2 schools (probably what expedited Belmont getting the **** out with zero warning or rumor a head of time).

YSU adds zero value to any conference in any sport. Which sadly means we are stuck with you until you ****s decide that you're too good for a conference again and try go to indy a second time.You mad bro? Common theme here AD at YSU been there wayyyyyyy too long.. AND how in the hell do you know what other conferences want? Read my lips... YSU is in the MVFC for years to come [emoji2958]

When PUNI grows up it wants to be a [emoji210]..

Again, I'm saying the fan base @ YSU seems uninterested in the NDs, ILs AND SDs. To make you feel better,,, My road crew gang considers PUNI a rival from all the ass kickings you all dished us even before the MVFC..

Holly **** you sure type a lot of hot wind bagged **** to say,, I wish we won as much as YSU when it counts and I hate you [emoji1787]



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[clenz]

Get ready for another one next weekend.

I feel like UST has more talent than YSU is going to bring to the dome.

[ysubigred]

Get ready for another one next weekend.

I feel like UST has more talent than YSU is going to bring to the dome.At this point in time,,, IDGAF. But if I show up at the over sized gym, can I hand you a beer?

[emoji56]

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[Libertine]

Well, that took a left turn.


My guess, from the outside looking in: I think it'll break up and I think the Big South, after losing KSU and UNA, will probably try to raid the OVC for at least football teams.....
The big south is really the only one that makes sense to me, because they need more teams and have shown a tendency to add them. Maybe the MVFC does something as well, but I would very surprised.

I agree that it would make perfect sense for the Big South to swoop in. HOWEVER, for as long as Kyle Kallander has been commissioner of the conference -- going back to the mid-90's -- the Big South has not "raided" anyone; that is to say, under KK, the Big South has never initiated the process of taking on a new football member at the expense of another conference, largely because Kallander refused to even consider the idea. All football additions in the last quarter century have been due to extenuating circumstances with the prospective member and their existing conference. Observe:

* Stony Brook, Monmouth and Robert Morris wanted to increase scholarships and/or get out of the NEC but had nowhere to go. Hello, Big South.
* Kennesaw wanted to start a program but had nowhere to go. Hello, Big South.
* Presbyterian and North Alabama wanted to move up from D2 but neither the SoCon or the OVC were interested. Hello, Big South.
* VMI wanted to expand their OOC opportunities and also stop getting killed by App State, Furman and Georgia Southern every year. Hello, Big South.
* Campbell wanted to add scholarships. Hello, Big South (again).

Frankly, I was shocked that the BS added Hampton and NC A&T from the MEAC even though the biggest proponents of the idea were those schools themselves. The irony is that Liberty and Coastal both wanted the conference to pursue A&T years ago and were frustrated when KK shot down the idea citing the interests of the NC basketball schools, particularly High Point.

[rbhale55]

Yep, they did it.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Could there be a problem with Murray State getting into the MVC? Can't find a link, but some newspaper guy who covers Bradley University tweeted that MVC members are tapping the brakes. He stated that Murray State's academics are at issue.

[Laker]

Belmont leaves for the MVC.

Belmont announces move to Missouri Valley Conference from OVC (tennessean.com) (https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/2021/09/28/belmont-announces-move-missouri-valley-conference-ohio-valley-conference/5894340001/)

[mvfcfan]

My OVC prediction as of today that is subject to change.

1) I think everyone that is left will stay except for maybe Murray State if they can get into the MVC. I think the MVC leaves them out and Murray ends up staying too because it should be an easy path for them to the NCAA Tournament again most years.

2) Morehead State will play OVC Football and offer scholarships. Western Illinois will also join the league for all sports bringing the league up to 8 members.

3) Southern Indiana will be added as a non-football member giving the league 10 total members with 8 playing football.

[clenz]

Could there be a problem with Murray State getting into the MVC? Can't find a link, but some newspaper guy who covers Bradley University tweeted that MVC members are tapping the brakes. He stated that Murray State's academics are at issue.
I'm hearing there are some holds ups right now and academics are one of them.

I didn't think Murray was any different than most anyone else but I started pulling some US News Rankings and a few others places and....uh...Murray isn't a bad education but it certainly is lack behind the rest of the Valley. Given there is no immediate need for the Valley to go to 12 (11 works amazingly well for basketball with a 20 game schedule which limits the amount of OOC games needing found) and a number of other moves yet to be made across the country over the next year or two leading up to the **** storm that will be 25/26 the Valley can be picky and wait it out. The presidents of the Valley are highly involved in adding schools, more than the ADs, in many ways. Academic profile is a big part of it (which Valpo has also failed since they joined given they cut their law school which was a driving force of them getting in). There are 3 regional schools in the Valley, and I'm now including Belmont in this, and they are Bradley, Evansville and UNI. They are all 3 classified as Midwest regional universities. The other 8 are all classified as National Universities. Bradley is second in the US News Ranking for the Midwest, Evansville is 7th, and UNI is 19th - though has two programs (the two main programs) ranked at/near the top of the regional universities for those programs (Business and education).The National universities have half, or more I can't recall, ranked in the top 150-200 nationally. Murray is a southern regional school and ranks between 25 on the high side down to 35-40 on other sites. They also have a 4 year graduation rate of 31% where all valley schools are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than that. Test scores for incoming freshman at Valley schools are higher than Murray seems to have. That's not to say Murray is a bad school, but as far as university profile there are some differences that will be harder to overlook when there are some, uh, disagreements between the two parites over hurt feelings.

I think there is also some left over animosity from Murray from the Valpo add, and things have been said behind closed doors by Murray, and Valley admins, that can't really be taken back. Apparently the Vally approached Murray before Belmont and Murray refused to engage at all so the Valley went "Whelp, see ya" and went straight to Belmont and got a yes instantly. This is a bit of a middle finger to Murray in that there is no longer an communication (it seems) between the Valley and Murray and the Valley screwed the OVC any further by getting Belmont on board because it's clear the OVC leadership has no idea what the **** it's doing. Murray is either going to end up in an conference of all former D2s that make up the new OVC or move to the Southland which is also not going to be a good conference in basketball and do them harm there....but they'll go undefeated in conference ever year and get a 15 seed. The new MVC Commissioner Jeff Jackson, who took over July 1st, said today that he has no reason to go past 11 right now and if they do it will be for a school that matches the goals of the conference ADs and presidents and is wanting a challenge for their future. Seemed like some partial shots fired.

Just for reference on how Murray no longer has any control when it comes to the valley - mind you Murray now needs the Valley exponentially more than the Valley needs them - pending how the AAC/MWC plays out Wichita State is going to end up boned in the AAC (which was a dumb move made out of ego to begin with). The MWC is going to look for replacement schools and NDSU by 2025 is going to be an attractive option because the reality is there just isn't anyone out west. NDSU's admin has made it clear they want a move up, and their boosters have the money sitting there for it. South Dakota State would be a real interesting name to watch in the coming years. They haev significant investment, great programs, and would protect football schools as well. There is the University of St Thomas who fits the profile of the Valley very well. If they nail their transition that MSP market would be a great addition, plus it's a private school. Given where Jackson has said he is looking a school like UNK is on the table with how they've been growing. UTA is out there as Valley presidents really would love the Texas market and what better what to do that than be in Dallas?

Push comes to shove Paducah, KY and Murray State seem like the obvious choice for left behind when it comes to the Valley.

[walliver]

Well, that took a left turn.



I agree that it would make perfect sense for the Big South to swoop in. HOWEVER, for as long as Kyle Kallander has been commissioner of the conference -- going back to the mid-90's -- the Big South has not "raided" anyone; that is to say, under KK, the Big South has never initiated the process of taking on a new football member at the expense of another conference, largely because Kallander refused to even consider the idea. All football additions in the last quarter century have been due to extenuating circumstances with the prospective member and their existing conference. Observe:

* Stony Brook, Monmouth and Robert Morris wanted to increase scholarships and/or get out of the NEC but had nowhere to go. Hello, Big South.
* Kennesaw wanted to start a program but had nowhere to go. Hello, Big South.
* Presbyterian and North Alabama wanted to move up from D2 but neither the SoCon or the OVC were interested. Hello, Big South.
* VMI wanted to expand their OOC opportunities and also stop getting killed by App State, Furman and Georgia Southern every year. Hello, Big South.
* Campbell wanted to add scholarships. Hello, Big South (again).

Frankly, I was shocked that the BS added Hampton and NC A&T from the MEAC even though the biggest proponents of the idea were those schools themselves. The irony is that Liberty and Coastal both wanted the conference to pursue A&T years ago and were frustrated when KK shot down the idea citing the interests of the NC basketball schools, particularly High Point.

The Big South has seemed to be a basketball conference first, with football on the side. I don't see the non-football members showing any interest in the OVC schools due to travel expenses. It also would make little sense for OVC football schools to become BS affiliates since they would still need a home for other sports.

[FUBeAR]

I would love Murray State in the Socon, but the valley makes more sense.
I’m down with the Racers in the SoCon. FU’s horse needs a runnin’ buddy

[NDSUKurt]

I'm hearing there are some holds ups right now and academics are one of them.

I didn't think Murray was any different than most anyone else but I started pulling some US News Rankings and a few others places and....uh...Murray isn't a bad education but it certainly is lack behind the rest of the Valley. Given there is no immediate need for the Valley to go to 12 (11 works amazingly well for basketball with a 20 game schedule which limits the amount of OOC games needing found) and a number of other moves yet to be made across the country over the next year or two leading up to the **** storm that will be 25/26 the Valley can be picky and wait it out. The presidents of the Valley are highly involved in adding schools, more than the ADs, in many ways. Academic profile is a big part of it (which Valpo has also failed since they joined given they cut their law school which was a driving force of them getting in). There are 3 regional schools in the Valley, and I'm now including Belmont in this, and they are Bradley, Evansville and UNI. They are all 3 classified as Midwest regional universities. The other 8 are all classified as National Universities. Bradley is second in the US News Ranking for the Midwest, Evansville is 7th, and UNI is 19th - though has two programs (the two main programs) ranked at/near the top of the regional universities for those programs (Business and education).The National universities have half, or more I can't recall, ranked in the top 150-200 nationally. Murray is a southern regional school and ranks between 25 on the high side down to 35-40 on other sites. They also have a 4 year graduation rate of 31% where all valley schools are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than that. Test scores for incoming freshman at Valley schools are higher than Murray seems to have. That's not to say Murray is a bad school, but as far as university profile there are some differences that will be harder to overlook when there are some, uh, disagreements between the two parites over hurt feelings.

I think there is also some left over animosity from Murray from the Valpo add, and things have been said behind closed doors by Murray, and Valley admins, that can't really be taken back. Apparently the Vally approached Murray before Belmont and Murray refused to engage at all so the Valley went "Whelp, see ya" and went straight to Belmont and got a yes instantly. This is a bit of a middle finger to Murray in that there is no longer an communication (it seems) between the Valley and Murray and the Valley screwed the OVC any further by getting Belmont on board because it's clear the OVC leadership has no idea what the **** it's doing. Murray is either going to end up in an conference of all former D2s that make up the new OVC or move to the Southland which is also not going to be a good conference in basketball and do them harm there....but they'll go undefeated in conference ever year and get a 15 seed. The new MVC Commissioner Jeff Jackson, who took over July 1st, said today that he has no reason to go past 11 right now and if they do it will be for a school that matches the goals of the conference ADs and presidents and is wanting a challenge for their future. Seemed like some partial shots fired.

Just for reference on how Murray no longer has any control when it comes to the valley - mind you Murray now needs the Valley exponentially more than the Valley needs them - pending how the AAC/MWC plays out Wichita State is going to end up boned in the AAC (which was a dumb move made out of ego to begin with). The MWC is going to look for replacement schools and NDSU by 2025 is going to be an attractive option because the reality is there just isn't anyone out west. NDSU's admin has made it clear they want a move up, and their boosters have the money sitting there for it. South Dakota State would be a real interesting name to watch in the coming years. They haev significant investment, great programs, and would protect football schools as well. There is the University of St Thomas who fits the profile of the Valley very well. If they nail their transition that MSP market would be a great addition, plus it's a private school. Given where Jackson has said he is looking a school like UNK is on the table with how they've been growing. UTA is out there as Valley presidents really would love the Texas market and what better what to do that than be in Dallas?

Push comes to shove Paducah, KY and Murray State seem like the obvious choice for left behind when it comes to the Valley.


I agree with most of what you have said.

Like you, I believe that the Missouri Valley Football Conference is in a holding pattern right now to see what goes down with other conferences - after all, when you are the top dog, you can do this.

1. I think that eventually Youngstown will have to make a decision - stay in the MVFC and stop complaining about the travel costs, or go somewhere else. With all of the additions over the years, I am personally surprised that YSU has not left yet. My money is that if/when James Madison leaves the CAA, this will impact YSU, either directly with a move into the CAA or through other reshuffling that occurs and then has YSU leave.

2. I think that the MVFC will wait to see if/when NDSU leaves. I personally think that NDSU will leave if offered in the Mountain West (even if there is concern about travel costs for non revenue sports). If this happens, I would feel a little bad for South Dakota State as they joined NDSU for the move up in 2003 and it was a "take both of us or neither" when they joined the Missouri Valley, but college athletics have changed so much since then and it is "everyone looking out for their own best interests" and lets face it - Brookings, South Dakota offers no appeal to the Mountain West.

3. Lets say that both NDSU and YSU leave the MVFC - I could see the MVFC adding Eastern Illinois, Murray State, and SEMO, which would make 12 teams and create 2 nice divisions for geographic purposes.

North/West = UND, SDSU, South Dakota, UNI, Western Illinois, Illinois State
South/East = Indiana State, Murray State, SEMO, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Eastern Illinois

[katss07]

Why would the MWC take NDSU as opposed to North Texas, Rice, UTEP, UTSA, NMSU, Texas State, Tulsa, ect.? Not denying that NDSU and SDSU could/will move up in the future. Lots of FCS teams will, with those two likely being at the front of the line. But aren’t there better options for the MWC, a league that feels it’s atop the G5 now?

[JSUSoutherner]

I agree with most of what you have said.

Like you, I believe that the Missouri Valley Football Conference is in a holding pattern right now to see what goes down with other conferences - after all, when you are the top dog, you can do this.

1. I think that eventually Youngstown will have to make a decision - stay in the MVFC and stop complaining about the travel costs, or go somewhere else. With all of the additions over the years, I am personally surprised that YSU has not left yet. My money is that if/when James Madison leaves the CAA, this will impact YSU, either directly with a move into the CAA or through other reshuffling that occurs and then has YSU leave.

2. I think that the MVFC will wait to see if/when NDSU leaves. I personally think that NDSU will leave if offered in the Mountain West (even if there is concern about travel costs for non revenue sports). If this happens, I would feel a little bad for South Dakota State as they joined NDSU for the move up in 2003 and it was a "take both of us or neither" when they joined the Missouri Valley, but college athletics have changed so much since then and it is "everyone looking out for their own best interests" and lets face it - Brookings, South Dakota offers no appeal to the Mountain West.

3. Lets say that both NDSU and YSU leave the MVFC - I could see the MVFC adding Eastern Illinois, Murray State, and SEMO, which would make 12 teams and create 2 nice divisions for geographic purposes.

North/West = UND, SDSU, South Dakota, UNI, Western Illinois, Illinois State
South/East = Indiana State, Murray State, SEMO, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Eastern Illinois

I'm I the only one that doesn't see a single reality where YSU ends up in the CAA?

[katss07]

I'm I the only one that doesn't see a single reality where YSU ends up in the CAA?
And they think travel costs are bad now?

[ysubigred]

I'm I the only one that doesn't see a single reality where YSU ends up in the CAA?Two of us,, YSU is a life time member of the MVFC.. or until the AD is fired or retired.. xtwocentsx

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[clenz]

I agree with most of what you have said.

Like you, I believe that the Missouri Valley Football Conference is in a holding pattern right now to see what goes down with other conferences - after all, when you are the top dog, you can do this.

1. I think that eventually Youngstown will have to make a decision - stay in the MVFC and stop complaining about the travel costs, or go somewhere else. With all of the additions over the years, I am personally surprised that YSU has not left yet. My money is that if/when James Madison leaves the CAA, this will impact YSU, either directly with a move into the CAA or through other reshuffling that occurs and then has YSU leave.

2. I think that the MVFC will wait to see if/when NDSU leaves. I personally think that NDSU will leave if offered in the Mountain West (even if there is concern about travel costs for non revenue sports). If this happens, I would feel a little bad for South Dakota State as they joined NDSU for the move up in 2003 and it was a "take both of us or neither" when they joined the Missouri Valley, but college athletics have changed so much since then and it is "everyone looking out for their own best interests" and lets face it - Brookings, South Dakota offers no appeal to the Mountain West.

3. Lets say that both NDSU and YSU leave the MVFC - I could see the MVFC adding Eastern Illinois, Murray State, and SEMO, which would make 12 teams and create 2 nice divisions for geographic purposes.

North/West = UND, SDSU, South Dakota, UNI, Western Illinois, Illinois State
South/East = Indiana State, Murray State, SEMO, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Eastern Illinois
Depending how things play out up until 2025, with the Valley having the luxery of waiting to see how things shake out, I think SDSU could be an interesting watch for for the Valley. Their facility upgrades are nice. Slightly out of the geographic footprint but they add a ton of value for MBB and WBB.

It's why the MVC hasn't made a move on 12 and has said they are willing to sit around and wait. By 2025 St. Thomas could be Valley level in terms of facilities and what not if they fully commit. There are options a plenty in the future for the Valley as of now.

[Libertine]

And they think travel costs are bad now?

I seriously doubt that YSU would go to the CAA but, in terms of travel costs, the complete opposite would be true. I would expect their travel costs to drop dramatically. In the MVFC, YSU's nearest opponent is Indiana State in Terra Haute, IN which is 425 miles or a roughly 6-7 hour bus ride. Were YSU to join the CAA -- presumably for football only --, the farthest opponents from YSU would be either Stony Brook (450 miles) or Elon (510 miles). YSU to Elon is roughly the same driving distance as YSU to it's currently second-closest MVFC opponent, Illinois State. In fact, a trip from Youngstown to Grand Forks, ND and back is roughly the same distance as a trip from Youngstown to JMU and back four times.

Now, obviously, I wouldn't expect a school with the resources of YSU to be driving everywhere. But, the east coast is more densely populated than the midwest with shorter distances between population centers, so flying to destinations on the east coast provides for more airport and hotel options as well as shorter plane/bus connections. For example, there is only one hotel in either Terra Haute or Brookings, SD that could realistically handle an entire football team; there is also only one such hotel in Carbondale, IL but you can't land a 737-size plane at the Carbondale airport so you have to fly into Marion or Cape Girardeau, MO and bus from there. That pattern repeats to varying degrees across the MVFC whereas the only similar situation in the CAA might possibly be JMU. That's not intended as a knock on the midwest but it is a logistical reality.

[ysubigred]

I seriously doubt that YSU would go to the CAA but, in terms of travel costs, the complete opposite would be true. I would expect their travel costs to drop dramatically. In the MVFC, YSU's nearest opponent is Indiana State in Terra Haute, IN which is 425 miles or a roughly 6-7 hour bus ride. Were YSU to join the CAA -- presumably for football only --, the farthest opponents from YSU would be either Stony Brook (450 miles) or Elon (510 miles). YSU to Elon is roughly the same driving distance as YSU to it's currently second-closest MVFC opponent, Illinois State. In fact, a trip from Youngstown to Grand Forks, ND and back is roughly the same distance as a trip from Youngstown to JMU and back four times.

Now, obviously, I wouldn't expect a school with the resources of YSU to be driving everywhere. But, the east coast is more densely populated than the midwest with shorter distances between population centers, so flying to destinations on the east coast provides for more airport and hotel options as well as shorter plane/bus connections. For example, there is only one hotel in either Terra Haute or Brookings, SD that could realistically handle an entire football team; there is also only one such hotel in Carbondale, IL but you can't land a 737-size plane at the Carbondale airport so you have to fly into Marion or Cape Girardeau, MO and bus from there. That pattern repeats to varying degrees across the MVFC whereas the only similar situation in the CAA might possibly be JMU. That's not intended as a knock on the midwest but it is a logistical reality.This ^ but I've and a few others on here said before that YSU is in the MVFC until it's gone or we get a new AD with some ambition to make a change.

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[caribbeanhen]

Two of us, YSU is a life time member of the MVFC.. or until the AD is fired or retired.. xtwocentsx

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

sing it!

[ST_Lawson]

Now, obviously, I wouldn't expect a school with the resources of YSU to be driving everywhere. But, the east coast is more densely populated than the midwest with shorter distances between population centers, so flying to destinations on the east coast provides for more airport and hotel options as well as shorter plane/bus connections. For example, there is only one hotel in either Terra Haute or Brookings, SD that could realistically handle an entire football team; there is also only one such hotel in Carbondale, IL but you can't land a 737-size plane at the Carbondale airport so you have to fly into Marion or Cape Girardeau, MO and bus from there. That pattern repeats to varying degrees across the MVFC whereas the only similar situation in the CAA might possibly be JMU. That's not intended as a knock on the midwest but it is a logistical reality.

With Western Illinois and Macomb, we don't have any hotels able to house an entire football team and our airport can't handle anything much larger than a small Gulfstream or similar-sized jet (http://macombairport.com/Pilot/)...definitely not the type of charter flights most football teams would be taking. I believe most teams who are flying to play us will fly into the Quad Cities, Peoria, or maybe Burlington, IA. Quad Cities and Peoria can handle all that without any problem (hotels and airport), but are ~90 minutes drive away from Macomb. Burlington is a bit closer (~55 minutes by back roads), but only has maybe 1 or 2 hotels able to handle a football team...they do have a small commercial airport at least.

This was shown to be a bit of an issue back in 2015, when then #5 South Dakota State had to travel to Macomb in the midst of a snowstorm for a late November game. Their flight was delayed for a while (if I remember correctly, there were actually three college football teams hanging out at the Sioux Falls airport waiting on their flights at the same time). They eventually got to Peoria, only to have to spend hours driving 70 miles along rural 2-lane roads covered in snow. The game had to be delayed until later in the day due to travel issues, and WIU eventually won the game in 2 OT. I think there are SDSU fans still pretty upset about that one.

I don't know how the "political landscape" will affect what YSU does or doesn't do, but in terms of travel, the CAA has got to be easier than what a lot of MVFC teams have to do.

[Laker]

This was shown to be a bit of an issue back in 2015, when then #5 South Dakota State had to travel to Macomb in the midst of a snowstorm for a late November game. Their flight was delayed for a while (if I remember correctly, there were actually three college football teams hanging out at the Sioux Falls airport waiting on their flights at the same time). They eventually got to Peoria, only to have to spend hours driving 70 miles along rural 2-lane roads covered in snow. The game had to be delayed until later in the day due to travel issues, and WIU eventually won the game in 2 OT. I think there are SDSU fans still pretty upset about that one.

Wow! I remember this because of the two D2 teams that were involved. 2015- four teams stuck at the airport.

SDSU flew to Peoria and lost 30-24 in double OT as noted above.

USD flew to Illinois State and lost 46-0.

Augustana flew to Humboldt State and lost 45-31 in the playoffs. I think that they had about a 4 hour ride from the airport that was so hilly it made them seasick.

Sioux Falls flew out last to Arkansas and didn't get there until about midnight. Henderson State refused to change the early game time and won 23-16 in the playoffs.

If I remember right one of my friends who lives in Sioux Falls only had about an inch but something like 14 inches fell by the airport just a few miles away. Augie & USF fans were pretty ticked about how their hosts responded.

[SDFS]

Why would the MWC take NDSU as opposed to North Texas, Rice, UTEP, UTSA, NMSU, Texas State, Tulsa, ect.? Not denying that NDSU and SDSU could/will move up in the future. Lots of FCS teams will, with those two likely being at the front of the line. But aren’t there better options for the MWC, a league that feels it’s atop the G5 now?

On top of the other G5 schools, you have Cal-Davis, CalPoly, Montana, Montana St, Idaho who all fit the MWC Geo better than NDSU. Plus, all the WAC schools that want to go FBS (Sam Houston). Not saying NDSU won't happen, but there are plenty of schools that would fit the profile for the MWC.

[OhioHen]

I'm I the only one that doesn't see a single reality where YSU ends up in the CAA?

The Horizon is the right fit for YSU in all sports not involving an oddly shaped "ball." They're not going anywhere else.

[Paladin1aa]

The Horizon is the right fit for YSU in all sports not involving an oddly shaped "ball." They're not going anywhere else.


Agree. The addition of another Dakota school puts more pressure to get YSU football to a conference with closer travel for both players and fans. With a bean counter as the AD who doesn’t think out other issues well, his eye is riveting on travel costs. We fly just about everywhere. While OVC may have been an option at one time, I see only the CAA now as possible.

[atthewbon]

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1443741393730646023

Looks like Murray State is on their way out as well. I wonder if they join the MVFC?

[WestCoastAggie]

What I can see happening is the OVC and the ASun/CCSA/UAC coming together on some sort of merger. The Basketball only schools go one way and the football playing schools go another.

[mvfcfan]

Now the OVC is down to 7 with 5 football schools. It's always possible the Racers could keep their football in the OVC for a couple of years while they transition into the MVFC (see UND).

I could see TSU leaving for the SWAC. Not sure that any of the other 6 schools would be all that attractive to anyone else. If I were the OVC I'd be trying to raid a few football schools out of the GLVC. In all seriousness there's not a huge drop from what's left to Division 2.

[clenz]

Now the OVC is down to 7 with 5 football schools. It's always possible the Racers could keep their football in the OVC for a couple of years while they transition into the MVFC (see UND).

I could see TSU leaving for the SWAC. Not sure that any of the other 6 schools would be all that attractive to anyone else. If I were the OVC I'd be trying to raid a few football schools out of the GLVC. In all seriousness there's not a huge drop from what's left to Division 2.
The OVC has long as a rule of "we aren't your storage unit while you move the house" That could change with how empty the neighborhood is getting

I assume MUSU is moving football, but I guess we don't know that for sure right now.

Part (a big part) of the reason UND got to float football as an indy with a scheduling alliance with the Big Sky (not they didn't actually stay in the Big Sky those years) is the Big Sky didn't want them anymore and were willing to let UND leave without paying the buy out and if it meant having a scheduling alliance for 2 years to get UND gone cleanly they were willing to do so. Conferences don't let teams leave with out paying the buy out unless they really want them gone.

Mind you the OVC is currently in a lawsuit with JSU and EKU over them not paying their exit fee. You'll notice the stark contrast between the OVC and Big Sky/OVC set up

I'm going to bet the OVC is going to enforce that buy out on Murray and Belmont as well - and I'd be the Valley is willing to help with it.

Do Belmont and Murray drop their lawsuit stance and join the world of "no buy out payments" to avoid being caught up in paying it/being in a suit of their own, like JSU/EKU


Does it result in the suit against EKU/JSU being dropped? That would be the OVC giving up 4 million dollars in exit fees....but if MUSU and Belmont don't pay how much is the OVC willing to spend in court to get those 4 buy outs? Won't equal much when all is said and done

[SDFS]

The OVC has long as a rule of "we aren't your storage unit while you move the house" That could change with how empty the neighborhood is getting
Part (a big part) of the reason UND got to float football as an indy with a scheduling alliance with the Big Sky (not they didn't actually stay in the Big Sky those years) is the Big Sky didn't want them anymore and were willing to let UND leave without paying the buy out and if it meant having a scheduling alliance for 2 years to get UND gone cleanly they were willing to do so. Conferences don't let teams leave with out paying the buy out unless they really want them gone.


When the Great West imploded the MVFC was the primary choice for both USD and UND. When the MVFC turned both schools down. USD and UND approached the Big Sky. The Big Sky extended an invitation to both UND and USD. And it was expected that they would be travel partners in the Big Sky. After UND had accepted the invitation to the Big Sky USD received a late breaking invite to the MVFC. UND and the Big Sky made the best of a bad situation and it was said up front shortly after UND joined the conference. If UND was open and worked with the conference when leaving the conference, they would waive any exit fees. It was a unique situation. The Big Sky was very good to UND, Cal Poly and UCD. I have a lot of respect for the schools and the conference.

[JSUSoutherner]

The OVC has long as a rule of "we aren't your storage unit while you move the house" That could change with how empty the neighborhood is getting

I assume MUSU is moving football, but I guess we don't know that for sure right now.

Part (a big part) of the reason UND got to float football as an indy with a scheduling alliance with the Big Sky (not they didn't actually stay in the Big Sky those years) is the Big Sky didn't want them anymore and were willing to let UND leave without paying the buy out and if it meant having a scheduling alliance for 2 years to get UND gone cleanly they were willing to do so. Conferences don't let teams leave with out paying the buy out unless they really want them gone.

Mind you the OVC is currently in a lawsuit with JSU and EKU over them not paying their exit fee. You'll notice the stark contrast between the OVC and Big Sky/OVC set up

I'm going to bet the OVC is going to enforce that buy out on Murray and Belmont as well - and I'd be the Valley is willing to help with it.

Do Belmont and Murray drop their lawsuit stance and join the world of "no buy out payments" to avoid being caught up in paying it/being in a suit of their own, like JSU/EKU


Does it result in the suit against EKU/JSU being dropped? That would be the OVC giving up 4 million dollars in exit fees....but if MUSU and Belmont don't pay how much is the OVC willing to spend in court to get those 4 buy outs? Won't equal much when all is said and done

5 million. APSU left too.

[JSUSoutherner]

Now the OVC is down to 7 with 5 football schools. It's always possible the Racers could keep their football in the OVC for a couple of years while they transition into the MVFC (see UND).

I could see TSU leaving for the SWAC. Not sure that any of the other 6 schools would be all that attractive to anyone else. If I were the OVC I'd be trying to raid a few football schools out of the GLVC. In all seriousness there's not a huge drop from what's left to Division 2.

The SWAC won't take TSU. It would mess up the divisions. Also I'm pretty sure Tennessee State still has hopes one day they won't be awful and will make the playoffs. A couple years back when they picked up that Florida transfer they claimed to be build a team to win a national title. Obviously that went well.

They'll end up in the Big South with NCAT.

SEMO- Southland
Tennessee Tech- Big South
UTM could end up in either the Big South or the Southland.

EIU? Who carrreeesss? Maybe they'll follow one of their QBs into the NFC.

[clenz]

5 million. APSU left too.
Ah right.

The admin of the OVC is going to come out like bandits from the conference folding. Which is typically what happens when large orgs fail.

High ranking admin that lead to the failure get massive pay outs, everyone else suffers

[WestCoastAggie]

Chicago State is starting football. 😃

[WestCoastAggie]

The SWAC won't take TSU. It would mess up the divisions. Also I'm pretty sure Tennessee State still has hopes one day they won't be awful and will make the playoffs. A couple years back when they picked up that Florida transfer they claimed to be build a team to win a national title. Obviously that went well.

They'll end up in the Big South with NCAT.

SEMO- Southland
Tennessee Tech- Big South
UTM could end up in either the Big South or the Southland.

EIU? Who carrreeesss? Maybe they'll follow one of their QBs into the NFC.
That’s gonna really hurt travel budgets in the Big South. Tennessee State’s best hope is Valley drops to D2 or someone from the SIAC - namely Albany State or Tuskegee - moves up.

OR… McNeese State decides to reach out to the SWAC for an invite.

[MR. CHICKEN]

32153

.....JMU......TO DUH SOUTHEAST CONFERENCE.......ALABAMA SIDE........YOUNGSTOWN STATE.......NORFFEAST CONFERENCE.......IN SEARCH UH....OL' GLORY........BRAWK!

[Sycamore62]

whats the significance of 2025? Terre Haute has at least 3 places i think you could put a football team. if im not mistaken, many of the fbs schools stay out of town for road trips, or at least they used to, or at least I was told they did, or maybe im wrong.

[ST_Lawson]

Chicago State is starting football. 

Is there new official confirmation of that beyond what came out in a report a few months ago?
They already have serious financial and enrollment problems...I can't imagine starting a football team is going to help much. I think we're all pretty well aware that for the vast majority of schools, it's not a money-making proposition.

They already have a nice 7,000 seat basketball arena and are located in a very basketball-rich area. What would it cost to start up a new football team at the FCS level (when you don't have your own football stadium)? How much are they going to be putting into it every year? Wouldn't it be better to take that money and invest it in a big-name HC and recruiting resources and build towards getting an invite to something like the Horizon League. I would think that it would be a much better return on their investment, especially if they're able to make an NCAA tournament appearance or two. Any direction they go is going to take money and work, but I would think that their path would be much easier if they focused on improving basketball rather than starting up an expensive football team.

[Libertine]

The SWAC won't take TSU. ...

They'll end up in the Big South with NCAT.

...
Tennessee Tech- Big South
UTM could end up in either the Big South or the Southland.

There's no chance the Tennessee schools end up in the Big South as full members. The BS is already sitting at 12 full members for basketball and 7 football schools even with the loss of Kennesaw and North Alabama. There's no incentive at all to take on three schools that would be massive geographic outliers in any sport except football, particularly after the Birmingham Southern experiment failed so badly. The only realistic way that TTU, TSU, and UTM end up in the Big South is if OVC dropped football but remained intact for all other sports and the Big South added them as football associates.

[Sycamore62]

Is there new official confirmation of that beyond what came out in a report a few months ago?
They already have serious financial and enrollment problems...I can't imagine starting a football team is going to help much. I think we're all pretty well aware that for the vast majority of schools, it's not a money-making proposition.

They already have a nice 7,000 seat basketball arena and are located in a very basketball-rich area. What would it cost to start up a new football team at the FCS level (when you don't have your own football stadium)? How much are they going to be putting into it every year? Wouldn't it be better to take that money and invest it in a big-name HC and recruiting resources and build towards getting an invite to something like the Horizon League. I would think that it would be a much better return on their investment, especially if they're able to make an NCAA tournament appearance or two. Any direction they go is going to take money and work, but I would think that their path would be much easier if they focused on improving basketball rather than starting up an expensive football team.

Its possible that with the shortage of ammunition that they have found a gold mine by picking up spent ammunition casings off the ground around town and are reloading them for resale.

[SDFS]

Well, Augie applied to the WAC as a DII move up. Could they apply to OVC? So, you have Augie, Chicago St and Southern Indiana as backfills.

[Yote 53]

When the Great West imploded the MVFC was the primary choice for both USD and UND. When the MVFC turned both schools down. USD and UND approached the Big Sky. The Big Sky extended an invitation to both UND and USD. And it was expected that they would be travel partners in the Big Sky. After UND had accepted the invitation to the Big Sky USD received a late breaking invite to the MVFC. UND and the Big Sky made the best of a bad situation and it was said up front shortly after UND joined the conference. If UND was open and worked with the conference when leaving the conference, they would waive any exit fees. It was a unique situation. The Big Sky was very good to UND, Cal Poly and UCD. I have a lot of respect for the schools and the conference.
Remember those times well. Also need to remember that it wasn't just the MVFC we are talking about here. USD was a member of the Summit. IIRC, UND was not and had not been extended an invite. When USD & UND got the Big Sky offer the Summit was in trouble because they were losing USD and could not afford that. So with the Summit on the brink I heard it was SDSU that made the call to the MVFC and basically said, this is ridiculous, we can't let these schools leave our footprint for the Big Sky. USD was then offered by the MVFC and stayed in the Summit, and from that point on it was understood that eventually UND was going to be brought in as well. Because after that, a while later, there was a meeting between the Big Sky, MVFC, and Summit about the future of FCS football in the West. I think a lot of deals were made in that meeting and that is why there was such an orderly transition with the Big Sky playing a huge role in making these things happen (by being so agreeable).

ETA: I also remember there being chatter that the Big Sky was using USD and UND to leverage NDSU and SDSU into the Sky as well. All 4 Dakota schools as an eastern flank to the Sky would have worked. It also would have sunk the Summit and the MVFC would have been hurt bad as well. It was in everyone's best interest to work towards this current set-up.

[Yote 53]

Well, Augie applied to the WAC as a DII move up. Could they apply to OVC? So, you have Augie, Chicago St and Southern Indiana as backfills.
I think Augustana is putting a full D1 move-up on the back burner for a few years while they fire up their D1 hockey program. Breaking ground in the arena here soon. I think once they get that up and running that will scratch their D1 itch and they'll be staying in the NSIC with all the other NSIC programs that have D1 hockey as well.

[clenz]

whats the significance of 2025? Terre Haute has at least 3 places i think you could put a football team. if im not mistaken, many of the fbs schools stay out of town for road trips, or at least they used to, or at least I was told they did, or maybe im wrong.
2025/2026 is when the known moves for the "big guys" happen officially. Texas and OU head to the SEC that year (assuming they stay true to their exit plan with the B12). It's when the B12 is looking to add 2 more to go from 12 (after OU/UT) leave to stay at 14 like they'll have starting next year. It means it's when the AAC moves will need to be made by, the MWC teams moving to the AAC will be done by then, the teams making up 13 and 14 for the B12 (rumored to be Boise State and San Diego State...which is why they turned down the AAC) will be gone from the MWC. That means that in the next year or two the MWC is going to have to find 4 teams somehow (good luck). That means the AAC is going to be adding teams and spots in CUSA and the SBC likely start to open. It's why UTA/UALR are officially booted from the SBC.

That means that right now we are far enough away that while some moves are happening we are still a year or two away from everything breaking loose in prep for 2025 as most schools need too/will give a year notice which would be the 2023/2024 academic calendar year.

It's not that 2025 is some sort of magical year but it's the year that, at present, is when every move is set to be official and schools are prepping for.


In terms of Valley places being hard to get too for someone like YSU, since they the the school that bitches about it the most? Only WIU is truly difficult.

NDSU, UNI, UND, SIU, MSU, ISUr, ISUb all have airports within 15 minutes of their stadiums. It's why UNI, and Mark Farley, is known for "commando raids" where the team will fly in the day of the game, play the game, and fly home. He has joked about just being able to park the plain outside of the stadium as a reason for it. He's done it with Missouri State, Indiana State (almost ever time as long as it isn't an early morning kick because it's only an hour flight). All of those cities also have plenty of hotel options. The idea that ISUb only has one hotel that can fit a team is completely wrong. There's about 30 hotels within 15 minutes of the stadium based on a quick search also has been mentioned it's not uncommon for teams to stay slightly outside of the direct area of the stadium. A 20-30 minute ride to the stadium is nothing.

In theory you can fly into Brookings for SDSU, though I'm not sure what teams actually do as UNI typically will bus to SDSU since it's only about 5 hours. I would bet schools flying in are using Joe Foss in Sioux Falls. It's only 45 minutes from Joe Foss to Brookings and it takes about 3 turns to get there since Foss is right off of I29 and you only need 1 total turns to get from Foss to I29 and then it's straight on 29 until you take one turn to Brookings, which is also directly on I29, then one turn to a hotel. Insanely easy to get too. You can also stay in Sioux Falls and go up day of game because again, it's less than an hour.

USD just rinse repeated for SDSU but go south instead of North. For USD you probably aren't staying in Vermillion though, at least I know UNI doesn't. They stay in Sioux City on the bus trip over. Teams may also fly into Sioux Gateway in Sioux City as it's about 10 minutes closer than Joe Foss.

Macomb? Yeah, Macomb is a **** show to get too for anyone.

[Laker]

I think Augustana is putting a full D1 move-up on the back burner for a few years while they fire up their D1 hockey program. Breaking ground in the arena here soon. I think once they get that up and running that will scratch their D1 itch and they'll be staying in the NSIC with all the other NSIC programs that have D1 hockey as well.

This is the exact thing that Augie fans have told me.

[ST_Lawson]

Macomb? Yeah, Macomb is a **** show to get too for anyone.

Welcome to Forgottonia

[Professor Chaos]

I think Augustana is putting a full D1 move-up on the back burner for a few years while they fire up their D1 hockey program. Breaking ground in the arena here soon. I think once they get that up and running that will scratch their D1 itch and they'll be staying in the NSIC with all the other NSIC programs that have D1 hockey as well.


This is the exact thing that Augie fans have told me.
Didn't the NCAA close that loophole that allowed schools to move up to D1 in only one (or some) sports? I thought it was all or nothing now.

[Sycamore62]

Didn't the NCAA close that loophole that allowed schools to move up to D1 in only one (or some) sports? I thought it was all or nothing now.

I think hockey may be the exception. possibly other sports.

[clenz]

I think hockey may be the exception. possibly other sports.
I think, though haven't looked recently, LAX and field hockey may be exceptions as well.

[Laker]

I think hockey may be the exception. possibly other sports.

Hockey is exempted because there is no D2 national tournament. Of course, they did allow St Thomas (D3) to jump up since all of their sports were going.

MN State-Moorhead considered this about a decade ago but didn't pull the trigger.

[Libertine]

Didn't the NCAA close that loophole that allowed schools to move up to D1 in only one (or some) sports? I thought it was all or nothing now.

That's not entirely accurate. Schools in D2 and D3 can designate one men's and women's sport other than football or basketball as D1 programs.

[Sycamore62]

That's not entirely accurate. Schools in D2 and D3 can designate one men's and women's sport other than football or basketball as D1 programs.

That makes sense

[walliver]

... That means that in the next year or two the MWC is going to have to find 4 teams somehow (good luck). That means the AAC is going to be adding teams and spots in CUSA and the SBC likely start to open. It's why UTA/UALR are officially booted from the SBC.

...

If that happens, do you think the MWC would try to lure away a few of the new WAC teams? Obviously NMSU would like an invitation, but are there any other FBS teams in the west that wouldn't see the MWC as a move down? The only way I can see them getting 4 is if they bring in a few FCS move-ups.

[clenz]

Well an update on that is that all the MWC that were on their way out have told the MWC they are staying now. Meaning the AAC lost AFA and CSU who were said to have already accepted and the MWC is now reportedly pissed and targeting AAC schools (like SMU)

Who knows what happening

All I know is UNM will never let NMSU in the MWC.

[Libertine]

All I know is UNM will never let NMSU in the MWC.

This is the only thing we can know to be true.

[skinny_uncle]

Does the OVC even have a future? Seems to be disintegrating.

[lionsrking2]

Does the OVC even have a future? Seems to be disintegrating.

Sounds like it. Rumor has it we'll have three OVC teams on our conference schedule in 2022.