Playoff question

[umassfan]

If App St and UMass finish 10-1 and Montana finishes 11-0.... who will be the top two seeds? App and Montana again because of their crowds?

[mvemjsunpx]

Looking at the schedules, it probably should be this:

1. UMass
2. Montana
3. Appalachian St.

UMass would be 10-0 vs. FCS w/ an all D-1 schedule & playing in the toughest of the 3 conferences (though they don't play a couple of the CAA's top teams).
Montana would be 10-0 vs. FCS w/o an all D-1 schedule.
App. St. would be 9-0 vs. FCS w/o an all D-1 schedule.

The SoCon & Big Sky should be about equal overall this year. I think the SoCon will be better at the top & have more playoff teams, but the Big Sky should be deeper (& better in the middle). This is why I would consider Montana & Appalachian about equal w/ Montana's extra D-1 win making the difference.

I don't think this scenario will happen though. Montana should go 11-0, but Appalachian will have a big target on their backs in the SoCon & I don't see UMass being quite as good this year as they were in 2006.

Note that I said this is the way it should be. The committee has a history of making a few nonsensical seeding & selection decisions that could only be explained by factors they aren't supposed to consider (like prestige, attendance, or even guilt).

[umassfan]

Looking at the schedules, it probably should be this:

1. UMass
2. Montana
3. Appalachian St.

UMass would be 10-0 vs. FCS w/ an all D-1 schedule & playing in the toughest of the 3 conferences (though they don't play a couple of the CAA's top teams).
Montana would be 10-0 vs. FCS w/o an all D-1 schedule.
App. St. would be 9-0 vs. FCS w/o an all D-1 schedule.

The SoCon & Big Sky should be about equal overall this year. I think the SoCon will be better at the top & have more playoff teams, but the Big Sky should be deeper (& better in the middle). This is why I would consider Montana & Appalachian about equal w/ Montana's extra D-1 win making the difference.

I don't think this scenario will happen though. Montana should go 11-0, but Appalachian will have a big target on their backs in the SoCon & I don't see UMass being quite as good this year as they were in 2006.

Note that I said this is the way it should be. The committee has a history of making a few nonsensical seeding & selection decisions that could only be explained by factors they aren't supposed to consider (like prestige, attendance, or even guilt).

Not saying this will all happen either. I only brought up the question because one of those prediction websites had App UMass and Montana all undefeated in FCS play.

I actully think UMass has a chance to be better then last season. Our WRs will be deeper then last year. Coen will have another year under his belt and had a good offseason bulking up some to improve arm strenght. Our D did lose a few guys but have some transfers who will step in and fill holes that seemed large after seasons end. Our OLine returns 4 starters... the season though will all depend on our thunder and lightning combo of Nelson and Lawrence at RB. Baylark will not be replaced by one guy as both will split carries. Nelson is the power and Lawrence is the speed. Last season is hard to top but if healthy... this UMass team could be better.

[Grizalltheway]

Not saying this will all happen either. I only brought up the question because one of those prediction websites had App UMass and Montana all undefeated in FCS play.

I actully think UMass has a chance to be better then last season. Our WRs will be deeper then last year. Coen will have another year under his belt and had a good offseason bulking up some to improve arm strenght. Our D did lose a few guys but have some transfers who will step in and fill holes that seemed large after seasons end. Our OLine returns 4 starters... the season though will all depend on our thunder and lightning combo of Nelson and Lawrence at RB. Baylark will not be replaced by one guy as both will split carries. Nelson is the power and Lawrence is the speed. Last season is hard to top but if healthy... this UMass team could be better.

Here's hoping we don't see you in Missoula again this year. xthumbsupx

[OL FU]

I may be wrong, but I think an 10-1 (losing to Michigan) two time defending national champion would be difficult not to seed #1. xnodx

[McTailGator]

Looking at the schedules, it probably should be this:

1. UMass
2. Montana
3. Appalachian St.

UMass would be 10-0 vs. FCS w/ an all D-1 schedule & playing in the toughest of the 3 conferences (though they don't play a couple of the CAA's top teams).
Montana would be 10-0 vs. FCS w/o an all D-1 schedule.
App. St. would be 9-0 vs. FCS w/o an all D-1 schedule.

The SoCon & Big Sky should be about equal overall this year. I think the SoCon will be better at the top & have more playoff teams, but the Big Sky should be deeper (& better in the middle). This is why I would consider Montana & Appalachian about equal w/ Montana's extra D-1 win making the difference.

I don't think this scenario will happen though. Montana should go 11-0, but Appalachian will have a big target on their backs in the SoCon & I don't see UMass being quite as good this year as they were in 2006.

Note that I said this is the way it should be. The committee has a history of making a few nonsensical seeding & selection decisions that could only be explained by factors they aren't supposed to consider (like prestige, attendance, or even guilt).



IF is a BIG word...

But IMHO, Montana would have to absolutely KILL their opponents (even their BSC mates) to deserve a No. 1 seed with their schedule.

Not to disrespect the Griz, because McNeese has had to have some really crappy opponents at times as well and scheduling ain't easy when you draw well at home, but I get upset when and if our AD gives us a lineup like that. xeekx

[AZGrizFan]

IF is a BIG word...

But IMHO, Montana would have to absolutely KILL their opponents (even their BSC mates) to deserve a No. 1 seed with their schedule.

Not to disrespect the Griz, because McNeese has had to have some really crappy opponents at times as well and scheduling ain't easy when you draw well at home, but I get upset when and if our AD gives us a lineup like that. xeekx

You say "even their BSC mates", then say "Not to disrespect the Griz".....well, which is it? Are you disrespecting the Griz, or the REST of the BSC? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx There are as many "tough" games on Montana's schedule as anybody elses. Their's just hapen to be conference games.

[McTailGator]

You say "even their BSC mates", then say "Not to disrespect the Griz".....well, which is it? Are you disrespecting the Griz, or the REST of the BSC? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx There are as many "tough" games on Montana's schedule as anybody elses. Their's just hapen to be conference games.


What I was trying to say was, your OOC schedule is so weak you would be EXPECTED to kill them, but because they were so weak, you will need to run it up on some of your conference opponents that were expected to give you a real game to make up for the weak OOC schedule.

Don't take it to heart, it's just my opinion. You can't be overly thrilled about some of those OOC games can you? Wouldn't you rather have a top 10 team or two on your schedule?

[AZGrizFan]

What I was trying to say was, your OOC schedule is so weak you would be EXPECTED to kill them, but because they were so weak, you will need to run it up on some of your conference opponents that were expected to give you a real game to make up for the weak OOC schedule.

Don't take it to heart, it's just my opinion. You can't be overly thrilled about some of those OOC games can you? Wouldn't you rather have a top 10 team or two on your schedule?

Yes. But to insinuate that we must KILL our conference mates simply because we don't have AppState or UMass scheduled is a seriously flawed argument. On that note, however, if Fort Lewis were replaced with ANY FCS school, I'd be perfectly happy with our OOC schedule.

[GannonFan]

I may be wrong, but I think an 10-1 (losing to Michigan) two time defending national champion would be difficult not to seed #1. xnodx

I agree - UMass would have to somehow jump over Appy St to get a top 2 seed and if Appy St only loses to Michigan I don't see how that happens. If Montana goes undefeated they get a top seed, no questions asked, and if UMass and Appy St both go 10-1 with only losing to an FBS team then Appy St gets the other top seed. Pretty cut and dry really.

[Ronbo]

IF is a BIG word...

But IMHO, Montana would have to absolutely KILL their opponents (even their BSC mates) to deserve a No. 1 seed with their schedule.

Not to disrespect the Griz, because McNeese has had to have some really crappy opponents at times as well and scheduling ain't easy when you draw well at home, but I get upset when and if our AD gives us a lineup like that. xeekx

I think you are really disrespecting a Southern Utah team that played your Cowboys 30-27. You BARELY beat them in 2006 (what does that say about your team????) and they have 18 starters back in 2007. I'd wager SUU would beat you this year if you played at their house. It would be a even odds game at the least.

I'll add this. Montana slaughtered McNeese State in the playoffs and our entire team is back plus our All American RB who didn't play last year. You sure we need to prove anything????????

[McTailGator]

I think you are really disrespecting a Southern Utah team that played your Cowboys 30-27. You BARELY beat them in 2006 and they have 18 starters back in 2007. I'd wager SUU would beat you this year if you played at their house. It would be a even odds game at the least.


NO, I'm not! I'm just saying that you guy's will have some making up to do once you get to Conference play.

Those one loss games that App and UMass are looking at will Be BCS teams. (I assume UMass plays a BCS team). Those losses should not count very much from their overall record, especially if App keeps a loss to Michigan respectible.

[CopperCat]

If App St and UMass finish 10-1 and Montana finishes 11-0.... who will be the top two seeds? App and Montana again because of their crowds?

I asked Matt Dougherty about this once. He said that money does talk, even in I-AA (at the time). If UM wins 10 games, maybe even 9, they'll be seeded so that some money can be made. App would probably be the same way.

[Ronbo]

I'm looking at the SUU and Albany games and I'm not seeing pushovers by any means. Both teams return 18 and 19 starters respectively. They both had some very good games last year. SUU lost to McNeese by 3 and Cal Poly by 4 and beat Texas State. Albany beat Lehigh and Delaware. I don't see blowouts in these games. If Montana does blow these teams out then watch out, we could be very very good.

[putter]

I'm looking at the SUU and Albany games and I'm not seeing pushovers by any means. Both teams return 18 and 19 starters respectively. They both had some very good games last year. SUU lost to McNeese by 3 and Cal Poly by 4 and beat Texas State. Albany beat Lehigh and Delaware. I don't see blowouts in these games. If Montana does blow these teams out then watch out, we could be very very good.


I have to agree with this. SUU and Albany should return quality teams and the only real pushovers on the Griz schedule are Ft. Lewis and probably N. Colorado. Sac I am not sure about because they have a new coach so they could be better. I think people are underestimating the other 9 games.

[Ronbo]

I have to agree with this. SUU and Albany should return quality teams and the only real pushovers on the Griz schedule are Ft. Lewis and probably N. Colorado. Sac I am not sure about because they have a new coach so they could be better. I think people are underestimating the other 9 games.

Sac. State returns their entire Defense from a 4-4 Big Sky team. They had one of the better Defenses in the Conference last season. The entire Big Sky Conference should be better this year, every team is looking for better seasons, even UNC.

[HensRock]

I think even if UMass went 11-0 and Montana and App State were 10-1, then UMass might get the 3 seed. I don't know. They might get a 2 over Montana because they went out there last year and won - I think that would certainly play a factor in the committee's decision. If it had not been for last season, then Montana would be #2, I'm almost sure of it.

I know in 2003 that UD got the 2 seed over Wofford, even though (I beleive) Wofford was ranked #2 in the polls and in the GPI.

[89Hen]

I may be wrong, but I think an 10-1 (losing to Michigan) two time defending national champion would be difficult not to seed #1. xnodx
xnodx They won't relinquish the #1 spot in any poll if they go 10-1 and they would most definitely be the #1 seed. I could see the #2 going either way in that scenario.

[89Hen]

I'll add this. Montana slaughtered McNeese State in the playoffs and our entire team is back plus our All American RB who didn't play last year. You sure we need to prove anything????????
xconfusedx xnonono2x What does McNeese have to do with anything? xconfusedx

[GannonFan]

I think even if UMass went 11-0 and Montana and App State were 10-1, then UMass might get the 3 seed. I don't know. They might get a 2 over Montana because they went out there last year and won - I think that would certainly play a factor in the committee's decision. If it had not been for last season, then Montana would be #2, I'm almost sure of it.

I know in 2003 that UD got the 2 seed over Wofford, even though (I beleive) Wofford was ranked #2 in the polls and in the GPI.

Actaully, if UMass goes 11-0 I don't see how they wouldn't be a top 2 seed - that'd be a perfect conference record in the CAA plus a win over a BCS team (Boston College) - a 10-1 Montana team would not be seeded above them.

As for 2003, at least UD and Wofford were both 10-1 - although I thought UD had the higher GPI that year. It was a down year for the Socon (only 1 playoff entrant) so that may have hurt Wofford, plus Wofford's only loss was to Air Force, but they got blown out (49-0) whereas UD actually beat Navy, who happened to beat Air Force. Not quite common opponents but a little point of comparison.

[89Hen]

Actaully, if UMass goes 11-0 I don't see how they wouldn't be a top 2 seed - that'd be a perfect conference record in the CAA plus a win over a BCS team (Boston College) - a 10-1 Montana team would not be seeded above them.
I think Rock must have forgotten they have BC. If UMass were to go 11-0 they would have to be the #1 seed. But we really won't have to worry about that.

[GannonFan]

I think Rock must have forgotten they have BC. If UMass were to go 11-0 they would have to be the #1 seed. But we really won't have to worry about that.

Agreed - I mean, they have to play Colgate in Hamilton still. :p

[HensRock]

I think Rock must have forgotten they have BC. If UMass were to go 11-0 they would have to be the #1 seed. But we really won't have to worry about that.

I did forget about BC. My point was, that all things being equal (and maybe even a little unequal) Montana would get the seed because of attendance.

And BTW, Wofford had the higher GPI at the end of the regular season in 2003, I'm almost sure of it. Their only loss was to I-A Air Force and UD had a I-A Win (Navy) , but also had a I-AA loss in Northeastern.

[McNeese75]

I think you are really disrespecting a Southern Utah team that played your Cowboys 30-27. You BARELY beat them in 2006 (what does that say about your team????) and they have 18 starters back in 2007. I'd wager SUU would beat you this year if you played at their house. It would be a even odds game at the least.

I'll add this. Montana slaughtered McNeese State in the playoffs and our entire team is back plus our All American RB who didn't play last year. You sure we need to prove anything????????


We do play SUU at their house this year. I am not overlooking that game and actually probably give them more respect than you seem to be giving anyone. xcoffeex

You just better make sure you take care of your schedule this year because we all know what happens when the Griz have to travel before the NC game. xwhistlex

[McNeese75]

xconfusedx xnonono2x What does McNeese have to do with anything? xconfusedx


Exactly xrolleyesx

[Ronbo]

Hey guys, McNeese got mentioned because it was a McNeese fan bringing up our cupcake schedule again which includes a cupcake they could barely hang on to beat last season. A cupcake that has 18 starters back. I thought that needed some clearing up.

Also I have been showing respect to SUU and Albany. And I've posted several times that MSU, EWU, PSU, Weber, and NAU will all be better this year. How much respect do I need to show?????

[Jerbearasu]

xnodx They won't relinquish the #1 spot in any poll if they go 10-1 and they would most definitely be the #1 seed. I could see the #2 going either way in that scenario.
I agree unless App gets blown out or a team like UMass beats BC and is undefeated. That should leapfrog them over App kinda like UNH did last year after beating Northwestern.

[T-Dog]

I think Rock must have forgotten they have BC. If UMass were to go 11-0 they would have to be the #1 seed.

Not if App goes 11-0 .

I know, HIGHLY UNLIKELY either teams runs the table.

And BTW, at App's Fanfest, when they shilled the NAU game, they said "Northern Arizona, who'se expected to compete for the Big Sky Title along with Portland State and Montana this year"

Point being I wouldn't call the Big Sky weak. Last year their No 2 team (Montana State) handidly beat out No 2 team (Furman) and I think NAU and Sac St could beat Elon and Citadel (Wofford could have beaten them both and given Montana State a run for their money though as they were on fire at the end of the season).

[89Hen]

Hey guys, McNeese got mentioned because it was a McNeese fan bringing up our cupcake schedule again which includes a cupcake they could barely hang on to beat last season.
Again... what does that have to do with anything? The Hens lost to Albany last year, does that mean Albany is a good OOC opponent for the Griz to prove they're a top 2 seed?

[89Hen]

Not if App goes 11-0
Correct, but we were talking about if UMass went 11-0 and App was 10-1. xpeacex

[Ronbo]

MSU wasn't even the 2nd best team, PSU was in my opinion. But they lost to MSU in a mud bowl at Bozeman. That mud pretty much cancelled out the speed advantage PSU had on MSU. If the game had been on dry ground PSU would have been the 2nd playoff team from the Sky.

[Ronbo]

Again... what does that have to do with anything? The Hens lost to Albany last year, does that mean Albany is a good OOC opponent for the Griz to prove they're a top 2 seed?

And who is App. State playing that will prove they are a #1 or #2 seed? Getting blown out by Michigans 2nd and 3rd teamers proves nothing. Other than that, who's on their schedule? We play NAU too and at their house. I'll wager the BSC is a tougher Conference this season than the Southern. We usually are ranked over them and the Conference is better this year top to bottom.

[89Hen]

I'll wager the BSC is a tougher Conference this season than the Southern. We usually are ranked over them and the Conference is better this year top to bottom.

2006
4. Southern Conference (35.67)
5. Big Sky Conference (36.59)

2005
2. Southern Conference (26.99)
3. Big Sky Conference (28.27)

[putter]

Ronbo,

You are not going to win an argument with 89 about the strength of the Big Sky so just stop while you are ahead. Albany and SUU will be better than people think and I believe that will show as the season plays out. Montana puts Ft. Lewis on the schedule and the rest are FCS competition and now we play a bunch of pansies....face it the Griz can't with this argument so you just take care of business on the field and not worry about what anyone else says.

[Ronbo]

2006
4. Southern Conference (35.67)
5. Big Sky Conference (36.59)

2005
2. Southern Conference (26.99)
3. Big Sky Conference (28.27)


Yep and our 3rd best team MSU beating Furman 31-13 proves how much better the Southern is than the Big Sky? Take those GPI rankings with a grain of salt. I'll go head to head for a better comparison.

[89Hen]

Yep and our 3rd best team MSU beating Furman 31-13 proves how much better the Southern is than the Big Sky? Take those GPI rankings with a grain of salt. I'll go head to head for a better comparison.
You are the one that made the erroneous claim. xpeacex

[AZGrizFan]

Yep and our 3rd best team MSU beating Furman 31-13 proves how much better the Southern is than the Big Sky? Take those GPI rankings with a grain of salt. I'll go head to head for a better comparison.

where's bluehenbillk when you need him? xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

[Jerbearasu]

What makes a conference the BEST conference? Is it having the most competitive conference where it is impossible to go undefeated? If so I can put together a bunch of mediocre teams and they could beat each other up until they actually have to play real teams... Is it having a few of the best teams at the top but the bottom part of the conference being terrible? Everyone will always point to BOTH the SoCon and BSC as having that distinction...
IMO, the biggest emphasis should be on winning the whole thing and with that being said the SoCon has produced the most NC's and the most teams to reach the NC game. You can say the bottom part of the conference is weak (which is true) but look at the SoCon where it matters (the playoffs) and you see something pretty spectacular.

Just looking at the playoffs in the 21st century---
2000: ASU and GSU in semi's (GSU wins it all);
2001: GSU and FU in semi's (GSU loses championship);
2002: GSU in semi's;
2003: Wofford in semi's;
2004: no teams in semi's (FU knocked out in QF; GSU in 1st round);
2005: FU and ASU in semi's (ASU wins it all);
2006: ASU wins it all

By my count that is 4 different teams making it to the semi's; 3 different teams in championships and two different teams winning it all. There has only been 2 years since 1987 that a SoCon team has not made it to the semi's (2004 and 1997). In the past 8 years the SoCon has won the championship 50% of the time... If we keep going further back, we'd see 2 more GSU championships, 2 Marshall championships and a FU championship not to mention a WCU championship game appearance.
I will honestly say, if the SoCon were to go up against the CAA or Gateway in something like the ACC vs Big 10 challenge format for b-ball both of those conferences would likely post more victories. But the goal is to win it all and that is what the SoCon does...

[BisonBacker]

You say "even their BSC mates", then say "Not to disrespect the Griz".....well, which is it? Are you disrespecting the Griz, or the REST of the BSC? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx There are as many "tough" games on Montana's schedule as anybody elses. Their's just hapen to be conference games.

One would never consider your OOC schedule xlolx "tough"

[saccat]

MSU wasn't even the 2nd best team, PSU was in my opinion. But they lost to MSU in a mud bowl at Bozeman. That mud pretty much cancelled out the speed advantage PSU had on MSU. If the game had been on dry ground PSU would have been the 2nd playoff team from the Sky.

When PSU played here last year there was no mud. It as dry and nice, cold.
They lost because there QB could not get through his reads fast enough. Our field was never and issue last year.

[Saint3333]

Montana's schedule is WEAK and it has been discussed numerous times the last three months. They'll go 11-0 and get a top 2 seed. NEXT.

[Appguy]

Im not drinkin the Umass koolaid this season -
Loss of 9 starters (many key players to their run)
RB - Steve Baylark
SS - James Ihedigbo
DE - John Hatchell
Wr - Brandon London


....and their punter too but that doesnt county as a starter.

Lets talk about winning their division first.

[OL FU]

What makes a conference the BEST conference? Is it having the most competitive conference where it is impossible to go undefeated? If so I can put together a bunch of mediocre teams and they could beat each other up until they actually have to play real teams... Is it having a few of the best teams at the top but the bottom part of the conference being terrible? Everyone will always point to BOTH the SoCon and BSC as having that distinction...
IMO, the biggest emphasis should be on winning the whole thing and with that being said the SoCon has produced the most NC's and the most teams to reach the NC game. You can say the bottom part of the conference is weak (which is true) but look at the SoCon where it matters (the playoffs) and you see something pretty spectacular.

Just looking at the playoffs in the 21st century---
2000: ASU and GSU in semi's (GSU wins it all);
2001: GSU and FU in semi's (GSU loses championship);
2002: GSU in semi's;
2003: Wofford in semi's;
2004: no teams in semi's (FU knocked out in QF; GSU in 1st round);
2005: FU and ASU in semi's (ASU wins it all);
2006: ASU wins it all

By my count that is 4 different teams making it to the semi's; 3 different teams in championships and two different teams winning it all. There has only been 2 years since 1987 that a SoCon team has not made it to the semi's (2004 and 1997). In the past 8 years the SoCon has won the championship 50% of the time... If we keep going further back, we'd see 2 more GSU championships, 2 Marshall championships and a FU championship not to mention a WCU championship game appearance.
I will honestly say, if the SoCon were to go up against the CAA or Gateway in something like the ACC vs Big 10 challenge format for b-ball both of those conferences would likely post more victories. But the goal is to win it all and that is what the SoCon does...


Not to brag about losing championships:o but 2001 would be Furman losing in the championshipxnodx

[AZGrizFan]

One would never consider your OOC schedule xlolx "tough"

And I never said it was, did I? xconfusedx

[AZGrizFan]

Montana's schedule is WEAK and it has been discussed numerous times the last three months. They'll go 11-0 and get a top 2 seed. NEXT.

As is ASU's. They'll go 10-1 and have a top 2 seed as well. It's good to be in a cupcake conference, huh? xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[elkmcc]

Montana's schedule is WEAK and it has been discussed numerous times the last three months. They'll go 11-0 and get a top 2 seed. NEXT.


Maybe, ok probably. But the fact remains that with the exception of Fort Lewis, The Griz schedule isn't as lame as a lot of you non-montana fans would like it to appear. SUU and Albany could end up finishing respectably this year and wouldn't we all love it if SUU knocked off NDSU. Point being karma can be a very nasty thing.

IMO if some you NMF's spent as much time promoting your own teams as you do trying to discredit Montana and every team on its schedule you might find that you too could fill your stadiums each and every game and you wouldn't have to be so dang envious of the Grizzlies any more.

[89Hen]

SUU... could end up finishing respectably this year...
SUU will not win a game this year. Take it to the bank. Have you seen their schedule? They're a bad team with an impossible schedule. They may not even make it to the end of the season.

Sept. 1 @ Montana
Sept. 8 North Dakota
Sept. 15 Southern Illinois
Sept. 22 McNeese State
Sept. 29 BYE
Oct. 6 @ Montana State
Oct. 13 @ Youngstown State
Oct. 20 UC Davis
Oct. 27 @ North Dakota State
Nov. 3 Cal Poly
Nov. 10 @ South Dakota State
Nov. 17 @ Northern Iowa

[elkmcc]

Not to brag about losing championships:o but 2001 would be Furman losing in the championshipxnodx


Not to brag but 2001 would be the team with the weak schedule winning in the championship.

[Ronbo]

SUU will not win a game this year. Take it to the bank. Have you seen their schedule? They're a bad team with an impossible schedule. They may not even make it to the end of the season.

Sept. 1 @ Montana
Sept. 8 North Dakota
Sept. 15 Southern Illinois
Sept. 22 McNeese State
Sept. 29 BYE
Oct. 6 @ Montana State
Oct. 13 @ Youngstown State
Oct. 20 UC Davis
Oct. 27 @ North Dakota State
Nov. 3 Cal Poly
Nov. 10 @ South Dakota State
Nov. 17 @ Northern Iowa

I'll take it to the bank. A Montana hat for a Delaware hat. I say they win a game and you say they don't we got a bet?

[elkmcc]

SUU will not win a game this year. Take it to the bank. Have you seen their schedule? They're a bad team with an impossible schedule. They may not even make it to the end of the season.

Sept. 1 @ Montana
Sept. 8 North Dakota
Sept. 15 Southern Illinois
Sept. 22 McNeese State
Sept. 29 BYE
Oct. 6 @ Montana State
Oct. 13 @ Youngstown State
Oct. 20 UC Davis
Oct. 27 @ North Dakota State
Nov. 3 Cal Poly
Nov. 10 @ South Dakota State
Nov. 17 @ Northern Iowa

You probably said that about Albany last year too.

[89Hen]

I'll take it to the bank. A Montana hat for a Delaware hat. I say they win a game and you say they don't we got a bet?
Done xthumbsupx xpeacex

[89Hen]

You probably said that about Albany last year too.
Nope. I actually warned fellow Hen fans that they could be us. They also didn't have a schedule that looked anything like SUU's... come to think of it, I've NEVER seen an all I-AA schedule that was that hard.

[Ronbo]

Done xthumbsupx xpeacex

Just PM me at season's end and we'll talk about where to send the hat.:D

[lizrdgizrd]

Maybe, ok probably. But the fact remains that with the exception of Fort Lewis, The Griz schedule isn't as lame as a lot of you non-montana fans would like it to appear. SUU and Albany could end up finishing respectably this year and wouldn't we all love it if SUU knocked off NDSU. Point being karma can be a very nasty thing.

IMO if some you NMF's spent as much time promoting your own teams as you do trying to discredit Montana and every team on its schedule you might find that you too could fill your stadiums each and every game and you wouldn't have to be so dang envious of the Grizzlies any more.
Yeah, App's really had a hard time filling our stadium lately. xrolleyesx

[TheValleyRaider]

If App St and UMass finish 10-1 and Montana finishes 11-0.... who will be the top two seeds? App and Montana again because of their crowds?

Back to the original question, I'd bet at that point UMass is the odd-man out in that scenario. Undefeated Montana is #1, I can't see that working out any other way. After that, ASU would either be 10-0 vs. FCS teams, or 9-1 and having a win AT MICHIGAN. Couple that with being defending National Champs, I'd be shocked if a 10-1 ASU wasn't a Top 2 seed in this case. xpeacex

[mvemjsunpx]

Back to the original question, I'd bet at that point UMass is the odd-man out in that scenario. Undefeated Montana is #1, I can't see that working out any other way. After that, ASU would either be 10-0 vs. FCS teams, or 9-1 and having a win AT MICHIGAN. Couple that with being defending National Champs, I'd be shocked if a 10-1 ASU wasn't a Top 2 seed in this case. xpeacex

Actually ASU would be 9-0 or 8-1 against FCS because they play D-II Lenoir-Rhyne.

If you take away the Michigan game (since that would be App. St.'s loss in this scenario), Montana has a slightly stronger schedule (though both are fairly weak).
However, UMass has the strongest schedule of the 3, even if it isn't as tough as what some other CAA teams have.

This discussion will probably be worthless in the end, however, since who knows which of the these opponents will be surprisingly good & which will be surprisingly bad.


As a side note to many of the previous posts in this thread, the committee is not supposed to consider anything except the current season when making the playoff selections.
However, we all know they often reward past success anyway.

[elkmcc]

Yeah, App's really had a hard time filling our stadium lately. xrolleyesx

No but you seem to have had no problem knocking Montana either.

[TheValleyRaider]

Actually ASU would be 9-0 or 8-1 against FCS because they play D-II Lenoir-Rhyne.

If you take away the Michigan game (since that would be App. St.'s loss in this scenario), Montana has a slightly stronger schedule (though both are fairly weak).
However, UMass has the strongest schedule of the 3, even if it isn't as tough as what some other CAA teams have.

This discussion will probably be worthless in the end, however, since who knows which of the these opponents will be surprisingly good & which will be surprisingly bad.


As a side note to many of the previous posts in this thread, the committee is not supposed to consider anything except the current season when making the playoff selections.
However, we all know they often reward past success anyway.

My bad about the D-II game. However, even if they lose that game, they're still 9-0 vs. FCS and would have won at Michigan. For the record, I'll be pulling for App in the Big House, but that's not going to happen. Either way, a 10-1 ASU is a Top 2 seed unless, for example, UMass and Montana go 11-0.

[lizrdgizrd]

No but you seem to have had no problem knocking Montana either.
Nope, seems like we can do both. I bet we could even walk and chew gum at the same time! xeekx

[elkmcc]

Nope, seems like we can do both. I bet we could even walk and chew gum at the same time! xeekx

WE as in the turd in your pocket or your imaginary friend? Either way I'm impressed.
:)

[McTailGator]

Hey guys, McNeese got mentioned because it was a McNeese fan bringing up our cupcake schedule again which includes a cupcake they could barely hang on to beat last season. A cupcake that has 18 starters back. I thought that needed some clearing up.

Also I have been showing respect to SUU and Albany. And I've posted several times that MSU, EWU, PSU, Weber, and NAU will all be better this year. How much respect do I need to show?????


Just Chill out RONBO,

No one was dising anyone.

Just saying that App and Umass have very dificult schedules compared to the Griz. Even Griz fans hate your schedule. So chill.

[Saint3333]

Actually ASU would be 9-0 or 8-1 against FCS because they play D-II Lenoir-Rhyne.

If you take away the Michigan game (since that would be App. St.'s loss in this scenario), Montana has a slightly stronger schedule (though both are fairly weak).
However, UMass has the strongest schedule of the 3, even if it isn't as tough as what some other CAA teams have.

This discussion will probably be worthless in the end, however, since who knows which of the these opponents will be surprisingly good & which will be surprisingly bad.


As a side note to many of the previous posts in this thread, the committee is not supposed to consider anything except the current season when making the playoff selections.
However, we all know they often reward past success anyway.

If you take away the Michigan game, well we can't, I'm pretty sure it's on the schedule. ASU plays Michigan and two top 15 FCS teams on the road and an additional three teams that could break into the top 25 at some point this season (@ Citadel, GSU, and NAU). How is that a weak schedule?

[McTailGator]

SUU will not win a game this year. Take it to the bank. Have you seen their schedule? They're a bad team with an impossible schedule. They may not even make it to the end of the season.

Sept. 1 @ Montana
Sept. 8 North Dakota
Sept. 15 Southern Illinois
Sept. 22 McNeese State
Sept. 29 BYE
Oct. 6 @ Montana State
Oct. 13 @ Youngstown State
Oct. 20 UC Davis
Oct. 27 @ North Dakota State
Nov. 3 Cal Poly
Nov. 10 @ South Dakota State
Nov. 17 @ Northern Iowa



xrotatehx

DAMN! That is indeed a tough schedule. Ouch.

[CopperCat]

MSU wasn't even the 2nd best team, PSU was in my opinion. But they lost to MSU in a mud bowl at Bozeman. That mud pretty much cancelled out the speed advantage PSU had on MSU. If the game had been on dry ground PSU would have been the 2nd playoff team from the Sky.

I guess you haven't been reading the posts about how deep and fast our LB's are.........

MSU had/has plenty of speed.xnodx

[AZGrizFan]

SUU will not win a game this year. Take it to the bank. Have you seen their schedule? They're a bad team with an impossible schedule. They may not even make it to the end of the season.

Sept. 1 @ Montana
Sept. 8 North Dakota
Sept. 15 Southern Illinois
Sept. 22 McNeese State
Sept. 29 BYE
Oct. 6 @ Montana State
Oct. 13 @ Youngstown State
Oct. 20 UC Davis
Oct. 27 @ North Dakota State
Nov. 3 Cal Poly
Nov. 10 @ South Dakota State
Nov. 17 @ Northern Iowa

Just because they have an impossible schedule doesn't make them a "bad" team. I say they beat either ND, McNeese, or SDSU. They may also beat Southern Ill. Their home schedule sets up nicely for 2 wins. xeyebrowx

[Saint3333]

Just because they have an impossible schedule doesn't make them a "bad" team. I say they beat either ND, McNeese, or SDSU. They may also beat Southern Ill. Their home schedule sets up nicely for 2 wins. xeyebrowx

Do you mean the SIU team that beat them 59-0 last year. You're right an impossible schedule doesn't make a team bad. Would you say a team that won 3 games last year, 2 against D2 schools is a bad team, I would. SUU is not a good team.

[james_lawfirm]

No but you seem to have had no problem knocking Montana either.

That's not true. I personally want to issue an engraved invitation to Montana to come play with our guys up in Boone sometime after Thanksgiving. It ought to be fun.

And, further I will personally offer every Mont. fan I see a beer. I can't wait.

But, as another poster pointed out, we gotta both play the regular season first.

[Mountain Panther]

But, as another poster pointed out, we gotta both play the regular season first.

xthumbsupx

[TheValleyRaider]

But, as another poster pointed out, we gotta both play the regular season first.

Why? I think it's much more fun to watch each of us predict our own Undefeated seasons xreadx xeyebrowx xrotatehx xwhistlex xpeacex

[elkmcc]

That's not true. I personally want to issue an engraved invitation to Montana to come play with our guys up in Boone sometime after Thanksgiving. It ought to be fun.

And, further I will personally offer every Mont. fan I see a beer. I can't wait.

But, as another poster pointed out, we gotta both play the regular season first.

Thanks but I am hoping that App St is on the other side of the bracket. You are welcome to come to Missoula though, I'll even buy the beer.

[89Hen]

Just because they have an impossible schedule doesn't make them a "bad" team.
Did somebody say that?

[mvemjsunpx]

If you take away the Michigan game, well we can't, I'm pretty sure it's on the schedule. ASU plays Michigan and two top 15 FCS teams on the road and an additional three teams that could break into the top 25 at some point this season (@ Citadel, GSU, and NAU). How is that a weak schedule?

Since you obviously didn't read the parenthetical, I took that away because App. St. would lose that game in the scenario outlined at the beginning of the thread (going 10-1). Appalachian obviously has the tougher schedule, but, since they would lose to Michigan while Montana would not lose at all in this scenario, we can remove the Michigan game as a (realistically) automatic loss. You can then take away both teams' D-II opponents because they're considered automatic wins. Montana would be 10-0 against FCS, while App. St. would be 9-0 with a hairline weaker schedule (IMO).

In other words, an 11-0 Montana team has slightly better credentials than a 10-1 ASU team with a loss to Michigan, but both teams have slightly worse credentials than a 10-1 UMass team with a loss to BC.


Also, talking about ASU's & Montana's possible top-25 opponents: Montana also plays 2 pre-season top-25 teams (vs. Portland St., @ Montana St.) & they play your potential top-25 opponent NAU on the road (though I personally don't think NAU will be all that good this year). The Griz also play NEC favorite Albany as well as what should be a much improved Eastern Washington team (I picked them to finish 2nd.).

I really don't see much difference in FCS schedule strength between Montana & ASU, &, as I said in a previous post, I think the BSC & SoCon will be essentially equal this year. The one extra FCS win is the main reason I would put Montana ahead of Appalachian in this scenario.

[T-Dog]

SOS does count for something. Remember App in 05 went 8-3 and got a two seed because we lost at Kansas, LSU and Furman and had the hardest schedule in the country (four reg season home games to seven away games) so if UMass goes 10-1 and the CAA steps up, it'll be hard for htem not to get a top two seed. Same goes for the SoCon and Big Sky. Depends on how the rest of the conferences OOC schedule does.

[AZGrizFan]

Did somebody say that?

Yeah, you. xnodx

[Ronbo]

SOS does count for something. Remember App in 05 went 8-3 and got a two seed because we lost at Kansas, LSU and Furman and had the hardest schedule in the country (four reg season home games to seven away games) so if UMass goes 10-1 and the CAA steps up, it'll be hard for htem not to get a top two seed. Same goes for the SoCon and Big Sky. Depends on how the rest of the conferences OOC schedule does.

Everyone was 8-3 except UNH at 10-1 and they got the #1 seed and Hampton and they got the #3.

[lizrdgizrd]

WE as in the turd in your pocket or your imaginary friend? Either way I'm impressed.
:)
You know, with a bit of practice I'm sure you could do it too. xwhistlex

[89Hen]

Yeah, you. xnodx
xsmhx Better read it again.

[DaGriz]

I actully think UMass has a chance to be better then last season.

Most Griz fans feel the same way about our team this year. If our team stays healthy and out of trouble this might be one of the most talented teams we've ever had. That would be a great matchup come years end.

[AlphaSigMD]

SUU will not win a game this year. Take it to the bank. Have you seen their schedule? They're a bad team with an impossible schedule. They may not even make it to the end of the season.

Sept. 1 @ Montana
Sept. 8 North Dakota
Sept. 15 Southern Illinois
Sept. 22 McNeese State
Sept. 29 BYE
Oct. 6 @ Montana State
Oct. 13 @ Youngstown State
Oct. 20 UC Davis
Oct. 27 @ North Dakota State
Nov. 3 Cal Poly
Nov. 10 @ South Dakota State
Nov. 17 @ Northern Iowa


Personally, I would LOVE to see ASU play this schedule instead of SUU. Of course, it would mean quitting the SOCON, and becoming a pseudo-Notre Dame of the FCS, but boy it'd be some good football. Game of the week every week. Although it would be rough for ASU to go 11-0 with this scheule, anything less than 9-2 would be shocking.

[AlphaSigMD]

Most Griz fans feel the same way about our team this year. If our team stays healthy and out of trouble this might be one of the most talented teams we've ever had. That would be a great matchup come years end.

Most App fans feel the same way about our team this year. If our team stays healthy and out of trouble this might be one of the most talented teams we've ever had. That would ALSO be a great matchup come years end.

[AshevilleApp]

A "decent showing" by App against Michigan has to count for something. Certainly more than another FCS win over a non-ranked opponent.

[89Hen]

anything less than 9-2 would be shocking.
Don't know about shocking.

[lizrdgizrd]

Personally, I would LOVE to see ASU play this schedule instead of SUU. Of course, it would mean quitting the SOCON, and becoming a pseudo-Notre Dame of the FCS, but boy it'd be some good football. Game of the week every week. Although it would be rough for ASU to go 11-0 with this scheule, anything less than 9-2 would be shocking.
I don't know about shocking. With games @ UM, MSU, YSU, NDSU, SDSU & UNI I would think 4-2 would be a great away record. The home games with SIU, Cal Poly, and UC Davis would be close calls too. I'm not calling McNeese or UND "gimmies", but I doubt they would win at the Rock. A 9-2 season with that schedule might warrant a seed IMHO. xnodx

[AZGrizFan]

SUU will not win a game this year. Take it to the bank. Have you seen their schedule? They're a bad team with an impossible schedule. They may not even make it to the end of the season.

Sept. 1 @ Montana
Sept. 8 North Dakota
Sept. 15 Southern Illinois
Sept. 22 McNeese State
Sept. 29 BYE
Oct. 6 @ Montana State
Oct. 13 @ Youngstown State
Oct. 20 UC Davis
Oct. 27 @ North Dakota State
Nov. 3 Cal Poly
Nov. 10 @ South Dakota State
Nov. 17 @ Northern Iowa


Just because they have an impossible schedule doesn't make them a "bad" team. I say they beat either ND, McNeese, or SDSU. They may also beat Southern Ill. Their home schedule sets up nicely for 2 wins. xeyebrowx


Did somebody say that?


Yeah, you. xnodx


xsmhx Better read it again.

OK. I read it again. You said it this time too.

[89Hen]

OK. I read it again. You said it this time too.
Nope. "They are a bad team WITH an impossible schedule"... you really don't see a difference between that and "They are a bad team BECAUSE of an impossible schedule"?? xconfusedx

You can be a bad team with a tough schedule - SUU

You can be a good team with a tough schedule - NDSU

You can be a bad team with a weak schedule - Savannah State

You can be a good team with a weak schedule - Montana :p

[HensRock]

SUU will not win a game this year. Take it to the bank. Have you seen their schedule? They're a bad team with an impossible schedule. They may not even make it to the end of the season.

Sept. 1 @ Montana
Sept. 8 North Dakota
Sept. 15 Southern Illinois
Sept. 22 McNeese State
Sept. 29 BYE
Oct. 6 @ Montana State
Oct. 13 @ Youngstown State
Oct. 20 UC Davis
Oct. 27 @ North Dakota State
Nov. 3 Cal Poly
Nov. 10 @ South Dakota State
Nov. 17 @ Northern Iowa

Holy Crap! Who put that schedule together???
Is SUU in the Great West or the Gateway ???? xrotatehx

[GannonFan]

Nope. "They are a bad team WITH an impossible schedule"... you really don't see a difference between that and "They are a bad team BECAUSE of an impossible schedule"?? xconfusedx

You can be a bad team with a tough schedule - SUU

You can be a good team with a tough schedule - NDSU

You can be a bad team with a weak schedule - Savannah State

You can be a good team with a weak schedule - Montana :p

Sorry, AZ, 89's right - he didn't say they were a bad team because of the schedule - I rule in favor of the brother Hen in this one. xpeacex

[AZGrizFan]

Nope. "They are a bad team WITH an impossible schedule"... you really don't see a difference between that and "They are a bad team BECAUSE of an impossible schedule"?? xconfusedx

You can be a bad team with a tough schedule - SUU

You can be a good team with a tough schedule - NDSU

You can be a bad team with a weak schedule - Savannah State

You can be a good team with a weak schedule - Montana :p

OK, Ralph. xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx

wow, it's like a hot, sweaty, nasty Viet Nam flashback there. xeekx xeekx

[89Hen]

Either way, you'll get to see me in a Griz hat or Ronbo in a Delaware hat. Either is worth the price of admission. xlolx

[AZGrizFan]

Sorry, AZ, 89's right - he didn't say they were a bad team because of the schedule - I rule in favor of the brother Hen in this one. xpeacex

WTF do you know, Denunzio? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Of course you rule in Hen's favor. HEN. Get it? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

Hardly an unbiased opinion.... xcoffeex

[GannonFan]

WTF do you know, Denunzio? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Of course you rule in Hen's favor. HEN. Get it? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

Hardly an unbiased opinion.... xcoffeex

Awwww, come on, where's the love????? :p :p :p I've only made one post all day about how the Big Sky is Montana and nobody else - I've been good!!!! :p :p :p :p :p :p xthumbsupx xpeacex

[lizrdgizrd]

WTF do you know, Denunzio? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Of course you rule in Hen's favor. HEN. Get it? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

Hardly an unbiased opinion.... xcoffeex

Ok, as an unbiased observer here: Hen did say they were a bad team, but he didn't say it was because of their schedule. Ruling on the field stands. AZGrizFan has been assessed a timeout for loosing the challenge.

[AZGrizFan]

Awwww, come on, where's the love????? :p :p :p I've only made one post all day about how the Big Sky is Montana and nobody else - I've been good!!!! :p :p :p :p :p :p xthumbsupx xpeacex

true dat. xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

[AZGrizFan]

Ok, as an unbiased observer here: Hen did say they were a bad team, but he didn't say it was because of their schedule. Ruling on the field stands. AZGrizFan has been assessed a timeout for loosing the challenge.

Arent' you a CAA apologist? I can't keep track....or is that SoCon apologist? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

[Casey_Orourke]

WTF do you know, Denunzio? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Of course you rule in Hen's favor. HEN. Get it? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

Hardly an unbiased opinion.... xcoffeex


And you're not?????

I have seen very few posts where any of the many Montana backers actually admit that other than the Albany game Montana set up their cupcake schedule so they can enter Big Sky conference play relatively unscathed to ensure their dominance.

Hell, even your little sister Montana State is willing to take on the mighty Texas A&M Aggies as a proof of their mettle whereas Mighty Montana whips up on little Ft. Lewis and Southern Utah just for some easy wins.

Just another some more of Montana's slimy tactics alond with recruiting FBS badboys and rejects for the quick fix in filling the usual holes in their teams.

[FCS Go!]

And you're not?????

I have seen very few posts where any of the many Montana backers actually admit that other than the Albany game Montana set up their cupcake schedule so they can enter Big Sky conference play relatively unscathed to ensure their dominance.



When will people realize that Montana's scheduling is driven by revenue, just like everyone elses? Montana is not going to lose money on a game just to play a good team. Your team wouldn't either. If you want to fantasize about how Montana are a bunch of sissy wimps who are scared to play good teams go ahead. Just pray that the sissies show up on game day and not the team that usually beats your ass.

Sweet dreams.

[Ronbo]

I've said it before. The AD stated that he sent out dozens of invites to the Southern, Gateway, Ivy, and CAA for a $190,000 payday game and got zero takers except App. State and talks broke down in that one for some reason, I think because they wanted a home and home instead of the money.

[umassfan]

I've said it before. The AD stated that he sent out dozens of invites to the Southern, Gateway, Ivy, and CAA for a $190,000 payday game and got zero takers except App. State and talks broke down in that one for some reason, I think because they wanted a home and home instead of the money.

Well I know UMass has their schedule all set for the next 3-4 years... therefore we have no room for Montana. Its bad enough we have the toughest schedule in the FCS this season.... dont need to add a top 3 team to that also.

[Saint3333]

I've said it before. The AD stated that he sent out dozens of invites to the Southern, Gateway, Ivy, and CAA for a $190,000 payday game and got zero takers except App. State and talks broke down in that one for some reason, I think because they wanted a home and home instead of the money.

Seems a bit arrogant... Was Montana going to pay ASU 350K plus expenses to come to Montana for a one and done, if not it wouldn't make fiscal sense. Montana is NOT a FBS program and ASU will not accept a one and done, I'd hope if a home and home series were signed that Montana would come to Boone first to ensure a return game occurred.

ASU on the other hand schedules OOC FCS games (EKU, JMU, etc.) and lives up to the return trip even though they could make more money playing a one and done.

Montana now has a bad rep with scheduling and it will make it hard to get teams to come to them first.

[SoCon48]

I've said it before. The AD stated that he sent out dozens of invites to the Southern, Gateway, Ivy, and CAA for a $190,000 payday game and got zero takers except App. State and talks broke down in that one for some reason, I think because they wanted a home and home instead of the money.


App can clear $300-400,000 by playing any regional team at home. Why would we take $190K to travel to Montana on a one shot deal???
I'm sure Montana can find someone that dumb, but not our AD.
$190K is chicken feed after expenses on a trip that far.
Besides, we've already been there, it's Monty's turn to come to KBS.
A home and home makes good sense for both unless Montana got the front end and backed out.

[SoCon48]

Well I know UMass has their schedule all set for the next 3-4 years... therefore we have no room for Montana. Its bad enough we have the toughest schedule in the FCS this season.... dont need to add a top 3 team to that also.

Agree with your post except for the toughest sched in the FCS part.

[McNeese75]

I've said it before. The AD stated that he sent out dozens of invites to the Southern, Gateway, Ivy, and CAA for a $190,000 payday game and got zero takers except App. State and talks broke down in that one for some reason, I think because they wanted a home and home instead of the money.


What do you expect to get by offering $190,000 for a one and done ooc game?

Ohh, I guess we already know the answer to that one :D

[AZGrizFan]

App can clear $300-400,000 by playing any regional team at home. Why would we take $190K to travel to Montana on a one shot deal???



And yet, Montana gets criticized for the EXACT same logic. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[elkmcc]

App can clear $300-400,000 by playing any regional team at home. Why would we take $190K to travel to Montana on a one shot deal???
I'm sure Montana can find someone that dumb, but not our AD.
$190K is chicken feed after expenses on a trip that far.
Besides, we've already been there, it's Monty's turn to come to KBS.
A home and home makes good sense for both unless Montana got the front end and backed out.

According to the NCAA total revenue from ticket sales for ASU football last year was $404,216 as compared to Montana which generated $3,381,935 in football ticket revenue for the same period. http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/revenue_stat/show?school_id=105

Looks to me like Montana was offering to pay ASU almost 50% of their annual ticket sale revenue to play at Wa/Griz.


What gives Appy guys? Are virtually all of the fans that attend ASU football games students that get in free? Montana only gives a couple thousand tickets to its students. The rest of the seats are filled by paying customers. Additionally it looks to me like Montana season tickets run about $200 whereas ASU season tickets are about half of that? How many season tickets does ASU sell? Montana sold something like 18,000.

[lizrdgizrd]

And yet, Montana gets criticized for the EXACT same logic. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

No, they get criticized for backing out of home and home deals. I haven't seen anyone here criticize Montana for not taking a one game deal.

[Saint3333]

According to the NCAA total revenue from ticket sales for ASU football last year was $404,216 as compared to Montana which generated $3,381,935 in football ticket revenue for the same period. http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/revenue_stat/show?school_id=105

Looks to me like Montana was offering to pay ASU almost 50% of their annual ticket sale revenue to play at Wa/Griz.


What gives Appy guys? Are virtually all of the fans that attend ASU football games students that get in free? Montana only gives a couple thousand tickets to its students. The rest of the seats are filled by paying customers. Additionally it looks to me like Montana season tickets run about $200 whereas ASU season tickets are about half of that? How many season tickets does ASU sell? Montana sold something like 18,000.

Wow... I wouldn't trust that site...

In 2006 ASU sold ~3,500 season tickets at $120 a piece so that's already more than your figure.

ASU averaged 23K for the regular season (6 games). We do have great student attendance (probably around 8K avg.) which takes away from the gate, but adds to the atmospherexnodx. For 2006 that would mean 15K in paid attendance at $20 a game (note in 2007 3 games are $25 and 3 are $20) or $1.8M a season or 300K a game.

I'm beginning to wonder if Montana fans have lost touch with reality.xoopsx

[AZGrizFan]

No, they get criticized for backing out of home and home deals. I haven't seen anyone here criticize Montana for not taking a one game deal.

Oh, believe me, Montana has been run down here countless times for the arrogance of a 7-game home schedule. All one-and-dones, no home-and-homes, etc., etc., etc. 2 are regional, 1 is not (Albany). Believe me, it's the same logic---and we get crucified for it daily. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[elkmcc]

Wow... I wouldn't trust that site...

In 2006 ASU sold ~3,500 season tickets at $120 a piece so that's already more than your figure.

ASU averaged 23K for the regular season (6 games). We do have great student attendance (probably around 8K avg.) which takes away from the gate, but adds to the atmospherexnodx. For 2006 that would mean 15K in paid attendance at $20 a game (note in 2007 3 games are $25 and 3 are $20) or $1.8M a season or 300K a game.



Yea, I wish Montana could figure out that atmosphere thing. xeyebrowx


I'm beginning to wonder if Montana fans have lost touch with reality.xoopsx


Are you serious? Look at the numbers you just winged out there buddy.
Someone should call the UM Athletic department. Somehow ASU has figured out how to put on a football game day event at no cost. Your number don't jive at all pal. Sure looks to me like that $190,000 offer wasn't so bad after all huh?

[lizrdgizrd]

Oh, believe me, Montana has been run down here countless times for the arrogance of a 7-game home schedule. All one-and-dones, no home-and-homes, etc., etc., etc. 2 are regional, 1 is not (Albany). Believe me, it's the same logic---and we get crucified for it daily. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx
My point is that you've not gotten flack over refusing a one shot deal with say JMU or YSU have you? Giving us guff over not taking 190K on a one-and-done with UM just doesn't make sense.

[Ronbo]

It might not make sense for App. State, I agree. But it did for Albany, why not Northastern, Wofford, Harvard, Western Carolina, Western Illinois, New Hampshire or a number of others that don't really kill at home for attendance. It gives a team a shot to knock off a high ranked team and make a name for themselves. Shouldn't they be jumping at the chance?

[lizrdgizrd]

It might not make sense for App. State, I agree. But it did for Albany, why not Northastern, Wofford, Harvard, Western Carolina, Western Illinois, New Hampshire or a number of others that don't really kill at home for attendance. It gives a team a shot to knock off a high ranked team and make a name for themselves. Shouldn't they be jumping at the chance?

I don't see why they wouldn't, unless they already had their dance cards filled and couldn't get out of a game without the expense eating up the profit .

[Casey_Orourke]

When will people realize that Montana's scheduling is driven by revenue, just like everyone elses? Montana is not going to lose money on a game just to play a good team. Your team wouldn't either. If you want to fantasize about how Montana are a bunch of sissy wimps who are scared to play good teams go ahead. Just pray that the sissies show up on game day and not the team that usually beats your ass.

Sweet dreams.

We did....we played 3 FBS bowl bound teams in 2006....Beat a good New Mexico team in our first game of the season, then played brutal games against two top 25 teams in Oregon and Cal. In both of those games the Vikes were battered and bloodied, but we hung in there and finished the game.

What did your school do?

[Ronbo]

What do you expect to get by offering $190,000 for a one and done ooc game?

Ohh, I guess we already know the answer to that one :D

Hey $190,000 is what Boise State pays. Anyone say they wouldn't want to go there for a chance to knock them off? I would wager most of the FCS East Coast teams pay $125,000 or less. In fact if you average less than 10,000 you can't even afford to pay $125,000.

[elkmcc]

We did....we played 3 FBS bowl bound teams in 2006....Beat a good New Mexico team in our first game of the season, then played brutal games against two top 25 teams in Oregon and Cal. In both of those games the Vikes were battered and bloodied, but we hung in there and finished the game.

What did your school do?

Montana played Iowa for more $$ than PSU got for all 3 of their FBS games.

Lift the cow helmet above your eyes and admit that the only reason PSU played 3 FBS teams last year was to generate revenue and save their program for utter financial ruin. PSU has literally no ticket revenue from home games. I may be wrong but I think PSU loses as much or more money than any Division I athletic program.

[FargoBison]

I have no problem with Montana paying for teams to play in Missoula, NDSU did that for years in DII. It's a good thing if you can afford it and can find enough quality teams to keep the home fans happy. That said, I wouldn't be giving a school App State any grief for saying no to that kind of deal.

[Saint3333]

Yea, I wish Montana could figure out that atmosphere thing. xeyebrowx




Are you serious? Look at the numbers you just winged out there buddy.
Someone should call the UM Athletic department. Somehow ASU has figured out how to put on a football game day event at no cost. Your number don't jive at all pal. Sure looks to me like that $190,000 offer wasn't so bad after all huh?

Please explain how my numbers don't "jive".

Facts: 1) ASU averages 23K for regular season games 2) no more than 1/2 of the student pop. attends the games (8K) 3) tickets are $20 a piece

Calc: 15,000 X $20 = $300K of ticket revenue per game. Last time I checked that was greater than $190K. After travel expenses, $190K isn't going to provide as much profit as a home game for ASU. Teams like ASU, Delaware, JMU, GSU, etc. that draw well and have a decent gate aren't going to take deals like that. Now NAU that draws around 7K will take these deals as they'll take $175K from ASU this year.

There is a difference between revenue and profit. If you need an accounting lesson, I'm licensed.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

We did....we played 3 FBS bowl bound teams in 2006....Beat a good New Mexico team in our first game of the season, then played brutal games against two top 25 teams in Oregon and Cal. In both of those games the Vikes were battered and bloodied, but we hung in there and finished the game.

What did your school do?

Other than playing Iowa and then beating your butts in your stadium after you beat a good New Mexico team, then won the BSC, went to the playoffs and made it to the semifinals. That's about it as far as last season goes.

[Ronbo]

According to someone that talked to the Montana AD it costs about $50,000 to travel to the East Coast. If you can travel here for that then you net $140,000 from our offer. For many schools that's more than they make on a home game. For App. State no, but for 80% of the teams out there yes. Let's face it, it's a loss they are avoiding, the money isn't the issue.

[89Hen]

Teams like ASU, Delaware, JMU, GSU, etc. that draw well and have a decent gate aren't going to take deals like that.
Not sure I've read all of your posts to know if this is what you mean, but schools like the one you mentioned do play home and homes all the time...

JMU/ASU
GSU/UD
UD/FU....

[Saint3333]

I have no problem with Montana paying for teams to play in Missoula, NDSU did that for years in DII. It's a good thing if you can afford it and can find enough quality teams to keep the home fans happy. That said, I wouldn't be giving a school App State any grief for saying no to that kind of deal.

I believe Fargo and Ronbo have it right. It's very similar to the tier one programs (or the ones that sell a lot of tickets) in the FBS they pay the Sun Belt, WAC, MAC, etc. programs for a one and done to get more home games. The same thing is starting to occur in the FCS (Montana, ASU, GSU, etc.) can do the same thing, but they shouldn't expect and one and done deal with each other (or to buy out the return trip for that matter). That would be like Texas and Ohio State not having the home and home series the last two years, that just wouldn't fly with the adminstrations nor the fans.

[Casey_Orourke]

Montana played Iowa for more $$ than PSU got for all 3 of their FBS games.

Lift the cow helmet above your eyes and admit that the only reason PSU played 3 FBS teams last year was to generate revenue and save their program for utter financial ruin. PSU has literally no ticket revenue from home games. I may be wrong but I think PSU loses as much or more money than any Division I athletic program.

As I said before, for your state, Montana is the only show in town. We have to contend with two FBS programs which are not only on the rise, but managed to ramrod financial incentive programs xrulesx through the Oregon legislature that specifically did not include PSU. Plus unlike your rinkey-dink state (whose entire population would fit inside Portland's city limits with room to spare), Portland is cosmopolitian city made up of people from all over the country (including you bumpkins from Montana), who are more loyal (as they should be) to their own alma matas instead of the local program.

Yes the school had financial difficulties, we never denied it, but instead of letting our program die on the vine, we bit the bullet, scheduled the games, took our lumps and continued on. Now we have a coach who through his very charisma has jump-started football in Portland. We probably still have a way to go till we can match up with the great Montana, but keep looking in your rear view mirror, we are catching up.

[lizrdgizrd]

Not sure I've read all of your posts to know if this is what you mean, but schools like the one you mentioned do play home and homes all the time...

JMU/ASU
GSU/UD
UD/FU....

Hen, he's saying that those teams won't take a 190K one-and-done with another FCS school. Home-and-home deals, yes.

[Casey_Orourke]

We did....we played 3 FBS bowl bound teams in 2006....Beat a good New Mexico team in our first game of the season, then played brutal games against two top 25 teams in Oregon and Cal. In both of those games the Vikes were battered and bloodied, but we hung in there and finished the game.

What did your school do?

Other than playing Iowa and then beating your butts in your stadium after you beat a good New Mexico team, then won the BSC, went to the playoffs and made it to the semifinals. That's about it as far as last season goes.


Wasn't asking you.....we all know how the mighty Montana did....they did their usual song and dance and threw their weight around the BSC....we did what we had to do under the circumstances and moved on.

[elkmcc]

Please explain how my numbers don't "jive".

Facts: 1) ASU averages 23K for regular season games 2) no more than 1/2 of the student pop. attends the games (8K) 3) tickets are $20 a piece

Calc: 15,000 X $20 = $300K of ticket revenue per game. Last time I checked that was greater than $190K. After travel expenses, $190K isn't going to provide as much profit as a home game for ASU. Teams like ASU, Delaware, JMU, GSU, etc. that draw well and have a decent gate aren't going to take deals like that. Now NAU that draws around 7K will take these deals as they'll take $175K from ASU this year.

There is a difference between revenue and profit. If you need an accounting lesson, I'm licensed.

but can you read?:

App can clear $300-400,000 by playing any regional team at home. Why would we take $190K to travel to Montana on a one shot deal???
I'm sure Montana can find someone that dumb, but not our AD.
$190K is chicken feed after expenses on a trip that far.
Besides, we've already been there, it's Monty's turn to come to KBS.
A home and home makes good sense for both unless Montana got the front end and backed out.

My response was to this appy fans statment. I would love to know how one can net $300-400K when the revenues are only 300K. Sounds like some happy apple accounting to me.xeyebrowx

[elkmcc]

but can you read?:


My response was to this appy fans statment. I would love to know how one can net $300-400K when the revenues are only 300K. Sounds like some happy apple accounting to me.xeyebrowx

If you can read financial statements you just might want to look at these 2004 Audited Financial Statments. Page 60 breaks down the revenues and expenses for the athletic department at ASU quite nicely.http://www.busaf.appstate.edu/controller/anrpt2004.pdf

Looks to me like ASU gets most of its revenue from student fees and very little actual ticket revenue. I couldn't find more recent numbers for '05 or '06 but 2002, 2003 are very similar to 2004. So much for the $300,000 profit per game theory.xeyebrowx

[CharlestonAppFan]

If you can read financial statements you just might want to look at these 2004 Audited Financial Statments. Page 60 breaks down the revenues and expenses for the athletic department at ASU quite nicely.http://www.busaf.appstate.edu/controller/anrpt2004.pdf

Looks to me like ASU gets most of its revenue from student fees and very little actual ticket revenue. I couldn't find more recent numbers for '05 or '06 but 2002, 2003 are very similar to 2004. So much for the $300,000 profit per game theory.xeyebrowx

Ah yes, but what you didn't take into account grasshopper was that our attendence jumped tremendously in '05 and certainly in '06 xnonox . You will do one of these xeyebrowx when you find the figures you are looking for. :D

'04 was when some of us were calling for Coach Moore's head (not me, I like tenured coaches who are consistently good, even though sometimes you can't get past the hump.....if it ain't broke don't fix it....right GSU?); attendence was soured by this and our play was not up to par like it was the past two years.

[OL FU]

All I have to say is you guys sure are going to be disappointed when two teams other than Montana and Appalachian are in Chattanooga this Decemberxlolx

[elkmcc]

Ah yes, but what you didn't take into account grasshopper was that our attendence jumped tremendously in '05 and certainly in '06 xnonox . You will do one of these xeyebrowx when you find the figures you are looking for. :D

'04 was when some of us were calling for Coach Moore's head (not me, I like tenured coaches who are consistently good, even though sometimes you can't get past the hump.....if it ain't broke don't fix it....right GSU?); attendence was soured by this and our play was not up to par like it was the past two years.


So what you are saying is attendance jumped 450% in the next two years, correct? And they were all paying customers. Yea, that had to be it. Jeez that was silly of me.

[Saint3333]

but can you read?:


My response was to this appy fans statment. I would love to know how one can net $300-400K when the revenues are only 300K. Sounds like some happy apple accounting to me.xeyebrowx

Can you read... I didn't even write thatxreadx

I hope every ASU doesn't speak for me and you should hope so for your sake.

For ASU to only bring in 400K in ticket revenue for a football season they would only have to sale 3,300 tickets a game. I certainly haven't been getting in for free, maybe me and only 3329 others were getting screwed while everyone else got in for free...

Ticket revenue per game in 2005 & 2006 is ~ $300K. I really don't know how to break it down any further than my calculation above, it's fairly simple arthimetic.

You can use this logic with any other school as well and be materially correct as well.

I can't believe I just wasted my time posting common sense again.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

According to the NCAA total revenue from ticket sales for ASU football last year was $404,216 as compared to Montana which generated $3,381,935 in football ticket revenue for the same period. http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/revenue_stat/show?school_id=105

Looks to me like Montana was offering to pay ASU almost 50% of their annual ticket sale revenue to play at Wa/Griz.


What gives Appy guys? Are virtually all of the fans that attend ASU football games students that get in free? Montana only gives a couple thousand tickets to its students. The rest of the seats are filled by paying customers. Additionally it looks to me like Montana season tickets run about $200 whereas ASU season tickets are about half of that? How many season tickets does ASU sell? Montana sold something like 18,000.

For those doubting the validity of the Indystar.com information here is the reply I got from them when I asked where the information came from:

--Mark Alesia, Indy Star


ABOUT THE DATABASE

This is the most detailed, publicly available database of college athletic department financial information ever assembled.

It came from forms required by the NCAA for the 2004-05 school year. While the NCAA reports such information only in aggregate, the data is presented here by individual school --- with the ability for users to sort by category and conference, and to compare two schools.

The Star obtained the forms through freedom of information requests to the 215 public schools that compete in Division I. There were 164 responses, 76 percent.

(Requests also were sent to Division I's 112 private schools, which had no obligation to release the information. None did. In addition, state law in Pennsylvania and Delaware does not require its public schools to comply.)

The numbers are presented here as they were reported to the NCAA. No attempt was made to change or research anomalies. The NCAA does that.

Despite improvements in accounting procedures, schools still differ in how they report certain information. For example, some placed all contributions in the "non-program specific" category, while others broke them down by football, men's basketball, etc.

[Jerbearasu]

If you can read financial statements you just might want to look at these 2004 Audited Financial Statments. Page 60 breaks down the revenues and expenses for the athletic department at ASU quite nicely.http://www.busaf.appstate.edu/controller/anrpt2004.pdf

Looks to me like ASU gets most of its revenue from student fees and very little actual ticket revenue. I couldn't find more recent numbers for '05 or '06 but 2002, 2003 are very similar to 2004. So much for the $300,000 profit per game theory.xeyebrowx

This isn't accurate at all. The ticket sales line that is shown is for season tickets. That is correct placing the total at about 4000 season ticket holders for 04 (5 games multiplied by $20/game). I think in 04 we averaged roughly 16000 fans per game. If we assume about 6k students went, which at that time student support wasn't as rampant as it is now, leaves about 6000 paid tickets per game. This will total $600,000. Add that to the 400k for season ticket holders and that equals about 1 mil for the 04 season which is about 200,000/game at that time (please remember these are not exact figures).
The student fees revenue that is shown was, at the time, in the second year of being a fee to the students which is for the facilities enhancements. That was $300 per student multiplied by 12000 (rough student estimate for 04 fiscal year) which equals that $4 mil. I am almost positive it was a four year student fee (it was a while back when this was passed through the student government) because I remember it totalling 16 million which was roughly half the project costs. The other half was to be raised by alumni and donors. These funds are to expand Kidd Brewer, add the press box to the stadium (which I'm sure there is a thread on here with the renderings of that) and many other projects related to all of ASU's sports. Hence, the totals being shown in the non-program specific section.
Unless, of course you believe ASU averages 4000 people per game and if that's the case then I have no way of saving you anyhow. Just thought I would shed some light on this whole subject...

[Jerbearasu]

When will people realize that Montana's scheduling is driven by revenue, just like everyone elses? Montana is not going to lose money on a game just to play a good team. Your team wouldn't either. If you want to fantasize about how Montana are a bunch of sissy wimps who are scared to play good teams go ahead. Just pray that the sissies show up on game day and not the team that usually beats your ass.

Sweet dreams.

I know a few high school teams that will play for $100,000 less than you offered App. Why not play them? You will save that extra cash and I am sure you guys will sell out anyways.
I understand scheduling is revenue driven but it shouldn't be if it comes to playing inferior competition. Why does Montana feel that they are head-and-shoulders above everyone else at this level of play. JMU swallowed money to come to App last year and App will swallow money to return the trip to them. That is what competition is about.
In all honesty, are you that jazzed about Albany coming to visit or would you rather see a Northern Iowa, Delaware, or Furman come to town. You may have to listen to it the next year on the radio but I am sorry I would much rather see the best teams play than just go to another game where we win 63-7.
I guess it is all in what a program's goal is though. I am happy with ASU playing 1 FBS team, 1 great/decent FCS team, and 1 cupcake game for their OOC schedule. Montana just wants the easiest schedule possible so they can say they made it to the playoffs another year...

[FCSFAN]

Ah yes, but what you didn't take into account grasshopper was that our attendence jumped tremendously in '05 and certainly in '06 xnonox . You will do one of these xeyebrowx when you find the figures you are looking for.2004 (6 games): 81338 home attendance, 13556 avg
2005 (7 games): 125217 home attendance, 17888 avg
2006 (9 games): 184911 home attendance, 20546 avg

That's what you call ramping it up!

[FCSFAN]

I know a few high school teams that will play for $100,000 less than you offered App. Why not play them? You will save that extra cash and I am sure you guys will sell out anyways.
I understand scheduling is revenue driven but it shouldn't be if it comes to playing inferior competition. Why does Montana feel that they are head-and-shoulders above everyone else at this level of play. JMU swallowed money to come to App last year and App will swallow money to return the trip to them. That is what competition is about.
In all honesty, are you that jazzed about Albany coming to visit or would you rather see a Northern Iowa, Delaware, or Furman come to town. You may have to listen to it the next year on the radio but I am sorry I would much rather see the best teams play than just go to another game where we win 63-7.
I guess it is all in what a program's goal is though. I am happy with ASU playing 1 FBS team, 1 great/decent FCS team, and 1 cupcake game for their OOC schedule. Montana just wants the easiest schedule possible so they can say they made it to the playoffs another year...Who won last year's game between the underlined teams? Where was it played? I don't think Albany fits as part of "easiest."

[FCS Go!]

...

I guess it is all in what a program's goal is though. I am happy with ASU playing 1 FBS team, 1 great/decent FCS team, and 1 cupcake game for their OOC schedule. Montana just wants the easiest schedule possible so they can say they made it to the playoffs another year...


Again, it's your fantasy world. You can make up whatever motivations you want. Feel better about your team yet? Yes, your team is only concerned with testing their manhood. Money? Pah! Your team never thinks of it! Only the two-fisted, brawny, struggle on the field! ALL HAIL (insert your team's name here)! xbowx

[elkmcc]

This isn't accurate at all. ...

Well then I would suggest you take that up with the accounting firm that certified those financial statements. They might just take offense to your objection tho. xsmiley_wix

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This isn't accurate at all. The ticket sales line that is shown is for season tickets. That is correct placing the total at about 4000 season ticket holders for 04 (5 games multiplied by $20/game). I think in 04 we averaged roughly 16000 fans per game. If we assume about 6k students went, which at that time student support wasn't as rampant as it is now, leaves about 6000 paid tickets per game. This will total $600,000. Add that to the 400k for season ticket holders and that equals about 1 mil for the 04 season which is about 200,000/game at that time (please remember these are not exact figures).
The student fees revenue that is shown was, at the time, in the second year of being a fee to the students which is for the facilities enhancements. That was $300 per student multiplied by 12000 (rough student estimate for 04 fiscal year) which equals that $4 mil. I am almost positive it was a four year student fee (it was a while back when this was passed through the student government) because I remember it totalling 16 million which was roughly half the project costs. The other half was to be raised by alumni and donors. These funds are to expand Kidd Brewer, add the press box to the stadium (which I'm sure there is a thread on here with the renderings of that) and many other projects related to all of ASU's sports. Hence, the totals being shown in the non-program specific section.
Unless, of course you believe ASU averages 4000 people per game and if that's the case then I have no way of saving you anyhow. Just thought I would shed some light on this whole subject...

The 400,000 for revenue from tickets seems very low. It would seem like it would be more like 1.4 million. The numbers don't seem to add up. Are you guys still ratholing a million or so from the revenuers?

[texcap]

2004 (6 games): 81338 home attendance, 13556 avg
2005 (7 games): 125217 home attendance, 17888 avg
2006 (9 games): 184911 home attendance, 20546 avg

That's what you call ramping it up!

2005 and 2006 include 3 playoff games each. In those games the NCAA gets the majority (or at least a big part) of the gate receipts. Also, since those games were subject to the lower crowd levels that most FCS schools have in t he playoffs (particularly the first on Thanksgiving weekend).

That being said, if you are talking about ticket revenue you cannot look at it on a per game basis. You have to look at total attendace because even for the same person a new ticket is purchased each year. Using total attendance based on your numbers ASU has increased attendance 127% from 2004 to 2006.

[texcap]

2004 (6 games): 81338 home attendance, 13556 avg
2005 (7 games): 125217 home attendance, 17888 avg
2006 (9 games): 184911 home attendance, 20546 avg

That's what you call ramping it up!

2005 and 2006 include 3 playoff games each. In those games the NCAA gets the majority (or at least a big part) of the gate receipts. Also, those games were subject to the lower crowd levels that most FCS schools experience in the playoffs (particularly the first on Thanksgiving weekend).

That being said, if you are talking about ticket revenue you cannot look at it on a per game basis. You have to look at total attendace because even for the same person a new ticket is purchased each game. Using total attendance based on your numbers ASU has increased attendance 127% from 2004 to 2006.

[YoUDeeMan]

In all honesty, are you that jazzed about Albany coming to visit or would you rather see a Northern Iowa, Delaware, or Furman come to town.

We already came to town...and left with a win. :D

[Casey_Orourke]

I know a few high school teams that will play for $100,000 less than you offered App. Why not play them? You will save that extra cash and I am sure you guys will sell out anyways.
I understand scheduling is revenue driven but it shouldn't be if it comes to playing inferior competition. Why does Montana feel that they are head-and-shoulders above everyone else at this level of play. JMU swallowed money to come to App last year and App will swallow money to return the trip to them. That is what competition is about.
In all honesty, are you that jazzed about Albany coming to visit or would you rather see a Northern Iowa, Delaware, or Furman come to town. You may have to listen to it the next year on the radio but I am sorry I would much rather see the best teams play than just go to another game where we win 63-7.
I guess it is all in what a program's goal is though. I am happy with ASU playing 1 FBS team, 1 great/decent FCS team, and 1 cupcake game for their OOC schedule. Montana just wants the easiest schedule possible so they can say they made it to the playoffs another year...


I could not have said it better myself.

[Grizzaholic]

I know a few high school teams that will play for $100,000 less than you offered App. Why not play them? You will save that extra cash and I am sure you guys will sell out anyways.
I understand scheduling is revenue driven but it shouldn't be if it comes to playing inferior competition. Why does Montana feel that they are head-and-shoulders above everyone else at this level of play. JMU swallowed money to come to App last year and App will swallow money to return the trip to them. That is what competition is about.
In all honesty, are you that jazzed about Albany coming to visit or would you rather see a Northern Iowa, Delaware, or Furman come to town. You may have to listen to it the next year on the radio but I am sorry I would much rather see the best teams play than just go to another game where we win 63-7. I guess it is all in what a program's goal is though. I am happy with ASU playing 1 FBS team, 1 great/decent FCS team, and 1 cupcake game for their OOC schedule. Montana just wants the easiest schedule possible so they can say they made it to the playoffs another year...

If you ask me, it is a misconception (sp) that Griz fans think they are head and shoulders above the rest of the FCS. I think it is just every time you come on the internet you see the few Griz supporters that are always bragging about this and that. The only way for a team to be head and shoulders above the rest of FCS is..... lets see..... ASU winning the next 3 championships. That way they could say they had 5 seasons and 5 titles and 5 years of recruiting and nobody could touch them.

I am not trying to make excuses for Griz nation but it just seems to me that everybody who supports a team, whether it be the Griz, App, NDSU, Deleware, UMASS, whoever.... there are always going to be those who toot their own horn about their teams' accomplishments and go way overboard. It just seems that there are more Montana fans that are just a little too caught up in themselves to realize that there are other teams with accomplishments too. We have, what, 2 NC's, App has 2 in the last 2 years! I think when a program is on a roll or has sustained high expectations you are going to have the sugar coaters, bandwagoners, and what-have-you.

The second point is always what everybody wants of their program, right?!

xtwocentsx

[SoCon48]

If you can read financial statements you just might want to look at these 2004 Audited Financial Statments. Page 60 breaks down the revenues and expenses for the athletic department at ASU quite nicely.http://www.busaf.appstate.edu/controller/anrpt2004.pdf

Looks to me like ASU gets most of its revenue from student fees and very little actual ticket revenue. I couldn't find more recent numbers for '05 or '06 but 2002, 2003 are very similar to 2004. So much for the $300,000 profit per game theory.xeyebrowx

Let's see if i can simplify it for you. Let's take Mars Hill, a D-2 team coming to Boone last year. The game drew 24,346. Our tickets are either $20 or $25 depending on the game. Just for funsies, we'll say the tickets for that game were $20. We make no exceptions except for students, not even for the SRO's relegated to the grass endzone bank. 24,346 X $20 is $486,920. Subtract the $50K we gave Mars Hill. Nice gate of over $425K. The student section is re-imbursed by student activity fees.
This year, with most tickets going for $25, add a few bucks to that figure. Make the gross somewhere around $608K.
Now if you want to arrange a home and home, have your guy talk to my guy.xeyebrowx
Don't quit your day job. Research nor accounting are your strong points.

[elkmcc]

Let's see if i can simplify it for you. Let's take Mars Hill, a D-2 team coming to Boone last year. The game drew 24,346. Our tickets are either $20 or $25 depending on the game. Just for funsies, we'll say the tickets for that game were $20. We make no exceptions except for students, not even for the SRO's relegated to the grass endzone bank. 24,346 X $20 is $486,920. Subtract the $50K we gave Mars Hill. Nice gate of over $425K. The student section is re-imbursed by student activity fees.
This year, with most tickets going for $25, add a few bucks to that figure. Make the gross somewhere around $608K.
Now if you want to arrange a home and home, have your guy talk to my guy.xeyebrowx
Don't quit your day job. Research nor accounting are your strong points.

What an ashhole. Read the freaking financial reports. They are the official "audited financial statements" and not a ridiculous rant of nonsense by some idiot that has no idea what he is talking about.

I thought perhaps one of you might have some insight as to why ASU's "ticket revenues" are reported so. The reality is it don't sound to me like you have much insight into much at all. Gag me.

[SoCon48]

What an ashhole. Read the freaking financial reports. They are the official "audited financial statements" and not a ridiculous rant of nonsense by some idiot that has no idea what he is talking about.

I thought perhaps one of you might have some insight as to why ASU's "ticket revenues" are reported so. The reality is it don't sound to me like you have much insight into much at all. Gag me.

Duh. Your figures would be more believable if you'd use current information. You might want to start with 2006 info rather than out dated numbers.xrolleyesx

[elkmcc]

Duh. Your figures would be more believable if you'd use current information. You might want to start with 2006 info rather than out dated numbers.xrolleyesx

Hey genius: those aren't my figures. Those are the numbers ASU has submitted to the public for that accounting period. Like I stated earlier, for the years 2005 and 2006 there are not "Notes to the Financial Statements" that breakdown Athletic Dept. Revenues and Expenses.


If you can read financial statements you just might want to look at these 2004 Audited Financial Statments. Page 60 breaks down the revenues and expenses for the athletic department at ASU quite nicely.http://www.busaf.appstate.edu/controller/anrpt2004.pdf

Looks to me like ASU gets most of its revenue from student fees and very little actual ticket revenue. I couldn't find more recent numbers for '05 or '06 but 2002, 2003 are very similar to 2004. So much for the $300,000 profit per game theory.xeyebrowx



As far as I could tell there is also no explanations to why they are no longer providing this breakdown, which generally is not considered proper.

So as far as I can tell we have one or more of the following:

A change in accounting method (which would require an explanation)
A change in accounting reporting (which would require an explanation)
An omission (which wouldn't be good at all)
An error

Perhaps I am not seeing something and perhaps there is a good explantion on how ASU reports their ticket revenue. I just find it interesting that ASU only (but consistantly) reports ticket revenues of around $400,000 for may years in a row, provides a detailed breakdown of those numbers but then in 2005 and 2006 they do not provide the information. If I was a ASU booster I would be a little curious as to how much revenues increased and how it was spent. Instead of taking it out on me for there only being $400,000 of ticket revenue reported during those periods if I were you I might be asking some questions of ASU.xthumbsupx