FCS Realignment

[lionsrking2]

Louisville was never I-AA, were they? They played football in the MVC back when it sponsored football for a little bit, but that was before the I-A/I-AA split.

Correct. Louisville was never I-AA.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) sponsored I-A football until 1985 and included at various times: Louisville, Wichita State, Indiana State, New Mexico State, Cincinnati, Southern Illinois, North Texas, Tulsa, Illinois State, Drake, Memphis and West Texas State.

Not to be confused with the Missouri Valley FOOTBALL Conference, which emerged from the Gateway Conference. Founded in 1985, the same year that the I-A MVC folded.

[dbackjon]

Three factors:

1. Institutional brand improvement. With the exception of Liberty, every one of the upgrades came from publicly funded universities; and in the majority of cases, publicly funded universities below that of the state flagships (e.g., the second tier schools). Moving to FBS elevated these schools within their state, within their state legislature (in terms of funding), and elevated its admissions posture in a period of declining high school graduate numbers.

2. Financial opportunity. Even the lowest FBS conference earns more in TV and post-season revenue than the best FCS conference. Having a seat at the FBS level also elevates these school to increased NCAA payouts vs. an FCS or I-AAA (non-football) school. And if there's a 2(a), it's that bowl exposure and revenue, even at the lesser bowls, far exceeds any playoff participation.

3. Access to better talent. FBS schools have, especially in football but across most sports, a brand cachet that attracts higher quality student athlete prospects that what would be available in FCS.

Is that why the Sun Belt has been in the NCAA Play-in game as one of the four worst conferences multiple times over the last few years? Is that why a team from the Sun Belt has NEVER won an national championship in ANY Sport?

[acbearkat]

Is that why the Sun Belt has been in the NCAA Play-in game as one of the four worst conferences multiple times over the last few years? Is that why a team from the Sun Belt has NEVER won an national championship in ANY Sport?

Wasn’t Coastal Carolina a member of the Sun Belt when they won the College World Series?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

Wasn’t Coastal Carolina a member of the Sun Belt when they won the College World Series?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope - Big South. They joined the Sun Belt the next season.

[smilo]

You also have Idaho, UMass, ULM and ODU.

Once again, at least UMass is in the public eye. More than you can say for any east coast FCS school bar James Madison and maybe Harvard-Yale.

ODU also had their huge upset of VT in a down year and one successful season with decent prospects. Not sure how they would do in the Sun Belt East, but it's all former FCS teams! Someone's bound to get beat by the others who are turning themselves into G5 powers. Probably a tick ahead of Georgia State, but those are the basketball schools, who can occasionally field a good football team.

No argument on Idaho and ULM who should be FCS. Idaho had the cool stadium, but I think I hear more about it with them at FCS than I ever did before. ULM has absolutely nothing going for it.

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=acbearkat;3004913]Wasn’t Coastal Carolina a member of the Sun Belt when they won the College World Series?


IN 2016 COLLEGE WORLD SERIES:

NO...BIG SOUTH.....BUT HOURS AFTER DEFEATING ARIZONA 2 GAMES TA ONE THEY OFFICIALLY JOINED THE SUNBELT....PER WIKIPEDIA.........BRAWK!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Carolina_Chanticleers_baseball

[dbackjon]

[QUOTE=acbearkat;3004913]Wasn’t Coastal Carolina a member of the Sun Belt when they won the College World Series?


IN 2016 COLLEGE WORLD SERIES:

NO...BIG SOUTH.....BUT HOURS AFTER DEFEATING ARIZONA 2 GAMES TA ONE THEY OFFICIALLY JOINED THE SUNBELT....PER WIKIPEDIA.........BRAWK!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Carolina_Chanticleers_baseball

And results have gone backwards since joining the Sun Belt...

[katss07]

The Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) sponsored I-A football until 1985 and included at various times: Louisville, Wichita State, Indiana State, New Mexico State, Cincinnati, Southern Illinois, North Texas, Tulsa, Illinois State, Drake, Memphis and West Texas State.

Not to be confused with the Missouri Valley FOOTBALL Conference, which emerged from the Gateway Conference. Founded in 1985, the same year that the I-A MVC folded.
This is exactly why the MVC holds the same clause that the WAC does. If the MVC were to ever restart football, it could go straight to FBS.

[Sitting Bull]

Once again, at least UMass is in the public eye. More than you can say for any east coast FCS school bar James Madison and maybe Harvard-Yale.

ODU also had their huge upset of VT in a down year and one successful season with decent prospects. Not sure how they would do in the Sun Belt East, but it's all former FCS teams! Someone's bound to get beat by the others who are turning themselves into G5 powers. Probably a tick ahead of Georgia State, but those are the basketball schools, who can occasionally field a good football team.

No argument on Idaho and ULM who should be FCS. Idaho had the cool stadium, but I think I hear more about it with them at FCS than I ever did before. ULM has absolutely nothing going for it.

My issue with ODU was the impact their football move had on their other programs, particularly men’s and women’s basketball. That was ODUs sweet spot and the move to CUSA killed them. No win over Virginia Tech is going to make-up for the price the rest of the their athletic department had to pay for the move.

And in football, ODU was selling out every game while in the CAA, 20,000 per game. Today they are pulling in about 17,000 avg against G5 opponents. Not sure how that pays off.

[Sader87]

Three factors:

1. Institutional brand improvement. With the exception of Liberty, every one of the upgrades came from publicly funded universities; and in the majority of cases, publicly funded universities below that of the state flagships (e.g., the second tier schools). Moving to FBS elevated these schools within their state, within their state legislature (in terms of funding), and elevated its admissions posture in a period of declining high school graduate numbers.

2. Financial opportunity. Even the lowest FBS conference earns more in TV and post-season revenue than the best FCS conference. Having a seat at the FBS level also elevates these school to increased NCAA payouts vs. an FCS or I-AAA (non-football) school. And if there's a 2(a), it's that bowl exposure and revenue, even at the lesser bowls, far exceeds any playoff participation.

3. Access to better talent. FBS schools have, especially in football but across most sports, a brand cachet that attracts higher quality student athlete prospects that what would be available in FCS.

So it's basically a brand/financial decision by mostly 2nd tier state schools. Has it helped those schools in those regards?

Just not seeing the benefits from this....for every Boise St or Coastal Carolina, there are countless G5 FBS programs that are just as obscure to most of America as they were when they were playing at the FCS-level.

Makes you wondah why the Ivy League has never sought to go FBS, when given their resources, they clearly could.

[DFW HOYA]

So it's basically a brand/financial decision by mostly 2nd tier state schools. Has it helped those schools in those regards?

Makes you wondah why the Ivy League has never sought to go FBS, when given their resources, they clearly could.

It's worked for a lot of them. North Texas (fka North Texas State) has seen their enrollment nearly double to 42,000 and it got them a $78 million stadium. Because it's not about being nationally famous but more about growing its regional base amidst other state schools. North Texas used to be a peer with UT-Arlington, Stephen F. Austin and Sam Houston State, and now they compete for state funds with Texas Tech and Houston--nowhere close to Texas and Texas A&M, but a regional player. At UAB, it's allowed them to be thought of as more a big-time school versus the days when UA-Tuscaloosa was the only member of the University of Alabama system that was playing Division I football.

Old Dominion (once the Norfolk branch of William & Mary) positioned football as a way to elevate itself past Virginia's non-football commuter schools like George Mason and VCU. It's now got 24,000 students, almost as many as the University of Virginia has. It's less successful at a place like UMass because they're already the flagship and not using athletics as a stepping stone for greater visibility in the commonwealth.

As for the Ivy League, they didn't move up to I-A because four of them could have, but four would not have met the minimum requirements.

[Sader87]

It's worked for a lot of them. North Texas (fka North Texas State) has seen their enrollment nearly double to 42,000 and it got them a $78 million stadium. Because it's not about being nationally famous but more about growing its regional base amidst other state schools. North Texas used to be a peer with UT-Arlington, Stephen F. Austin and Sam Houston State, and now they compete for state funds with Texas Tech and Houston--nowhere close to Texas and Texas A&M, but a regional player. At UAB, it's allowed them to be thought of as more a big-time school versus the days when UA-Tuscaloosa was the only member of the University of Alabama system that was playing Division I football.

Old Dominion (once the Norfolk branch of William & Mary) positioned football as a way to elevate itself past Virginia's non-football commuter schools like George Mason and VCU. It's now got 24,000 students, almost as many as the University of Virginia has. It's less successful at a place like UMass because they're already the flagship and not using athletics as a stepping stone for greater visibility in the commonwealth.

As for the Ivy League, they didn't move up to I-A because four of them could have, but four would not have met the minimum requirements.

That was true in the late 70s/early 80s but we all know that isn't true today given the fudging of attendance at G5 schools today and the size of their stadiums (see Coastal Carolina).

The whole thing (going FBS from FCS) seems to be a $$$-grab from state legislatures essentially.....the vast majority of G5 schools who used to play FCS have barely raised their relevance as either schools academically or football programs.

[Go Green]

As for the Ivy League, they didn't move up to I-A because four of them could have, but four would not have met the minimum requirements.

The word "could" is doing some heavy lifting there. Only Yale actually qualified for I-A status at the time.

Yale True Blue to Ivies - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/1982/02/03/sports/yale-true-blue-to-ivies.html)

A case could be made that three (Harvard and the Ps) could have qualified with more effort, but they were short at the time.

[MR. CHICKEN]

DELAWARE
JMU
ODU
MARSHALL
VILLANOVA
TOWSON
UMA$$
UCONN
NAVY
ARMY
TEMPLE
???????(YOUNGSTOWN)

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=Sader87;3004939]So it's basically a brand/financial decision by mostly 2nd tier state schools. Has it helped those schools in those regards?

Just not seeing the benefits from this....for every Boise St or Coastal Carolina, there are countless G5 FBS programs that are just as obscure to most of America as they were when they were playing at the FCS-level.


......TA STEP UPPERS......TUESDAY/WEDNESDAY/THURSDAY/FRIDAY NITERS....ON ESPNS........FBS FANS.....WOOD LEARN INNA HURRY.......BIG BOYS....SKED SOME OOC's...............BRAWK!

..................AH'D BYPASS "WONDER YEARS".....GLADLY......FO'.......TEMPLE/'NOVA..........ARMY/YOUNGSTOWN......AWK!

[clenz]

the vast majority of G5 schools who used to play FCS have barely raised their relevance as either schools academically or football programs.
Is this really true? I mean, I know it's the fun meme we all love on this site as FCS fans about "grass isn't greener" but is it?

Let's look at the schools that have left, starting most recent

Liberty - **** everything about Liberty, but they have without a doubt become more relevant as a football program nationally. Milik Williams is a first round potential type QB. They've won more bowl games in their first four years as an FBS program than they had total playoff appearances in all their years as an FCS. Their recruiting profile for athletes has changed drastically. They are currently 5-2 and while they aren't in a conference they would be a top team 2 or 3 team in whatever G5 league they joined

Coastal Carolina - if you look at them and go "Their profile hasn't raised at all" you are just dumb as **** and can quit the board. They went from not having football, to a top 5 FCS team, to rushing the decision to move FBS, to being a top 15 ranked FBS team in a decade.

Charlotte - They were never going to be an FCS team. They started in the FCS in 2013 and left after 2014. To put them in with the idea of a "FCS move up" is really dumb.

App State - could be argued given their success at the FCS level that they have the highest bar to meet for "increasing profile" but it's safe to say they have. They just had 31,000 for a Wednesday night nationally televised game (against CCU). The Rock is now known nationally, rather than just FCS, for being a dope place to watch a game. They are dominant in the Sun Belt. They've played in 6 straight bowl games and won all of them, the last 4 by an average score of 42-14. They've been top 25 ranked. It's 100% undeniable their profile has gone up.

Georgia Southern - while not as successful as ASU since they moved up together their success has been good. From a play development standpoint they had 4 players drafted between 1987 and when they left the FCS. Since they moved FBS they have had 10 players drafted. Their recruiting profile is clearly higher. A large problem GSU has had is trying to overcome the old school "we are a triple option team" and move into a modern era offense while fighting back the tradition of what they have been.

Georgia State - see Charlotte.

ODU - They played 4 years in the FCS, and IIRC they were fairly explicit up front they didn't intend to stay FCS either. Though it's fair to say that their overall profile as a football program and university nationally is higher now than it was in 2011

UMASS - They are known nationally, but mostly as the team that can't find a home. I'll grant you they have floundered in their move

South Alabama - never an FCS program. They were a start up to go to FBS and only stayed FCS for 2 years because they had too

UTSA - start up with an Sun Belt offer. Only played FCS one year as a requirement.

Texas State - they were a trash FCS program and are a trash FBS program. If you're going to be a trash program it's better to be a trash program at the Sun Belt level than the Southland level. That's undeniably true.

That's every move up going back to 2011. Going back to before that we have

Western Kentucky - their profile as a football program, and athletic department, is significantly higher than it was in 2005/2006 nationally. They are on the wrong side of the CUSA implosion but to think they are a lower profile now is hilariously dumb and shows you don't follow college football - or athletics at all. I'd take them back in the Valley in a second for their basketball program.

FIU/FAU - See Georgia State, UTSA, UNCC, USA, etc.

Now we have to go back to the teams that moved up in the last millennia and have spent more time at the FBS level than the FCS level

Troy - They've raised their program level

UCONN - see UMASS though that's largely mismanagement and the Big East implosion dooming them. They went from FCS to a top 5 caliber team in theri first 7 years. Sustained a quality level for a bit and then **** in the fan.

USF - See FIU/FAU Georgia State, UTSA, UNCC, USA, etc. They played 2 seasons of FCS ball though their profile is pretty damn high for football. It's a bit up and down with results but undeniable what the success they've had has done overal for them.

We are now back far enough where I was in elementary school

Buffalo - went from being forced to move up because of the Dayton rule, going damn near winless for their FCS time, and to a decent caliber MAC team. They've 100% raised their level.

MTSU - is a pretty solid football program. Not a top 25 program but any G5 program is 2021 is more relevant than any FCS program in the mid 90s

Marshall - significantly higher than they were in the FCS. You can claim Moss and Pennington as FCS teams and look how known they were, but the school was moving up before they brought them in and brought them in with the promising of moving up. Overall they are much better off than they were for 99% of their time in the FCS.

UAB - SIGNIFICANTLY higher across their entire athletic department than they were in 95

Boise State - This is just laughable if we are trying to discuss if they are more relevant now and have raised their profile enough.

Do I really need to get into UCF, North Texas, ULM, Arkasas State, Nevada, LaTech, and Akron? They are all better off now than they were 30 years ago as FCS programs.

That list gives us 21 FCS to FBS move ups since 1986. I'll give you 3 that I'd consider "failures" - UMASS, UCONN, and Texas State. However, I've already talked about UCONN being semi outside their own control initially for how it turned south, and Texas State had no profile to raise.

Are those programs going to compete for the FBS title? No. Are 85% (18 of 21) of them better off as a university, and athletic department as a whole, than they were in the FCS? Yes. UMASS and UCONN are the only two I would go "They ****ed up" but given UCONN's initial success even that is hard to fault them for the move.

But you won't agree with me, Sader. I know this. Why? I've read enough of your posts. You like to think yourself a football knowledge god and knower of all, but outside of your tiny bubble of PL you just aren't.

I talked about this early in this thread. FCS fans are so ignorant to how thinsg are outside of our own little bubble that we can't see the forest through the trees in these kinds of discussions about moving up to the FBS. "I'd rather win 9 games here and lose a playoff game 300 people are at the first weekend of December on ESPN+ than win 7 games and play in a bowl game on ESPN that will have more viewers than every FCS game in history - outside of about 4 ever" is a hilariously dumb way to look at football and what moving up does or doesn't do. There isn't a single move up that would trade back down.


There is a reason only 1 program has ever gone back down, and it is a program that is so geographically isolated that it literally just couldn't survive financially. If Idaho was on the east coast like UMASS they'd have found a way to make it work. Being where they are they just couldn't.

[aceinthehole]

I'll give you 3 that I'd consider "failures" - UMASS, UCONN, and Texas State. However, I've already talked about UCONN being semi outside their own control initially for how it turned south, and Texas State had no profile to raise.

Are those programs going to compete for the FBS title? No. Are 85% (18 of 21) of them better off as a university, and athletic department as a whole, than they were in the FCS? Yes. UMASS and UCONN are the only two I would go "They ****ed up" but given UCONN's initial success even that is hard to fault them for the move.

---

There is a reason only 1 program has ever gone back down, and it is a program that is so geographically isolated that it literally just couldn't survive financially. If Idaho was on the east coast like UMASS they'd have found a way to make it work. Being where they are they just couldn't.

Agree with your assessment.

As for UConn, they had gone from a I-AA/FCS team with 1 playoff appearance ever, to a NYE bowl game! They are the only "move-up" that obtained "P5 status" (albeit, only briefly). Much of their realignment struggles are an issue of profile and politics. At one point, they were in consideration of a ACC invite. Sure, their current situation is a mess, but I think the move has been a "net positive" for them.

As DFW pointed out, UConn and UMass received much less benefit from the move to FBS because of their existing profile - they are both flagship universities in New England. The demographics of both states are not as as strong as the South (FL, GA, TX, etc.) and neither has any real college football culture. They both needed to make the move just to avoid falling further behind on a National level.

[NY Crusader 2010]

When we talk about who's better off after having moved up, the answer is most. As clenz pointed out in detail. One major reason for this is that a lot of the time, getting invited to an FBS conference isn't always about being good at football. Buffalo, MTSU, Texas State and Georgia State were never any good in FCS. UCONN wasn't anything special in the Yankee Conference but were pretty strong their last year or two before moving up. By default, by moving up to FBS, the bar of the program is raised. Because being a bad to mediocre FBS program is better than being a bad to mediocre FCS program.

And the programs that were water carriers in I-AA/FCS => App State, Marshall, Georgia Southern, Coastal, Boise State, WKU, ULM, UMASS, Idaho, Troy; all of these programs aside from UMASS, ULM and Idaho have found success on the other side of the fence to the point where no one in their base of supporters would look back. I believe the same would be the case for JMU. One school that considered moving up ten years ago, but didn't, was Villanova. They definitely made the right call staying where they're at.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Agree with your assessment.

As for UConn, they had gone from a I-AA/FCS team with 1 playoff appearance ever, to a NYE bowl game! They are the only "move-up" that obtained "P5 status" (albeit, only briefly). Much of there realignment struggles are a issue of profile and politics. At one point, they were in consideration of a ACC invite. Sure their current situation is a mess, but I think the move has been a "net positive" for them.

As DFW pointed out, UConn and UMass received much less benefit from the move to FBS because of their existing profile - they are both flagship universities in New England. The demographics of both states are not as as strong as the South (FL, GA, TX, etc.) and neither is the college football culture. They need to make the move just not to slip further behind on a National level.

That bridge was incinerated when UCONN sued BC when they left the Big East. Had that not happened, ACC membership would have been a possibility.

UMASS misread the tea leaves with regards to the break up of the Big East. They thought they were going to be able to leverage Bob Kraft's influence to get into the old Big East football conference alongside UCONN.

[clenz]

When we talk about who's better off after having moved up, the answer is most. As clenz pointed out in detail. One major reason for this is that a lot of the time, getting invited to an FBS conference isn't always about being good at football. Buffalo, MTSU, Texas State and Georgia State were never any good in FCS. UCONN wasn't anything special in the Yankee Conference but were pretty strong their last year or two before moving up. By default, by moving up to FBS, the bar of the program is raised. Because being a bad to mediocre FBS program is better than being a bad to mediocre FCS program.

And the programs that were water carriers in I-AA/FCS => App State, Marshall, Georgia Southern, Coastal, Boise State, WKU, ULM, UMASS, Idaho, Troy; all of these programs aside from UMASS, ULM and Idaho have found success on the other side of the fence to the point where no one in their base of supporters would look back. I believe the same would be the case for JMU. One school that considered moving up ten years ago, but didn't, was Villanova. They definitely made the right call staying where they're at.
Nova has the perfect life given their university and athletic department set up.

It's one UCONN really should consider, but pride is getting in the way. Maybe being back in the Big East now will help them swallow the idea of being a "P5/G5" type football program. Cut the football side to FCS, like Nova. Focus on building a good FCS program, and reinvest the rest into fixing the basketball issues that have come up.

[acbearkat]

When we talk about who's better off after having moved up, the answer is most. As clenz pointed out in detail. One major reason for this is that a lot of the time, getting invited to an FBS conference isn't always about being good at football. Buffalo, MTSU, Texas State and Georgia State were never any good in FCS. UCONN wasn't anything special in the Yankee Conference but were pretty strong their last year or two before moving up. By default, by moving up to FBS, the bar of the program is raised. Because being a bad to mediocre FBS program is better than being a bad to mediocre FCS program.

And the programs that were water carriers in I-AA/FCS => App State, Marshall, Georgia Southern, Coastal, Boise State, WKU, ULM, UMASS, Idaho, Troy; all of these programs aside from UMASS, ULM and Idaho have found success on the other side of the fence to the point where no one in their base of supporters would look back. I believe the same would be the case for JMU. One school that considered moving up ten years ago, but didn't, was Villanova. They definitely made the right call staying where they're at.

UConn does have one of the better college baseball programs in the Northeast. Jim Penders, who is the nephew of former University of Texas and University of Houston men’s head basketball coach Tom Penders, has done a great job up there with the baseball program.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

It's worked for a lot of them. North Texas (fka North Texas State) has seen their enrollment nearly double to 42,000 and it got them a $78 million stadium. Because it's not about being nationally famous but more about growing its regional base amidst other state schools. North Texas used to be a peer with UT-Arlington, Stephen F. Austin and Sam Houston State, and now they compete for state funds with Texas Tech and Houston--nowhere close to Texas and Texas A&M, but a regional player. At UAB, it's allowed them to be thought of as more a big-time school versus the days when UA-Tuscaloosa was the only member of the University of Alabama system that was playing Division I football.

Old Dominion (once the Norfolk branch of William & Mary) positioned football as a way to elevate itself past Virginia's non-football commuter schools like George Mason and VCU. It's now got 24,000 students, almost as many as the University of Virginia has. It's less successful at a place like UMass because they're already the flagship and not using athletics as a stepping stone for greater visibility in the commonwealth.

As for the Ivy League, they didn't move up to I-A because four of them could have, but four would not have met the minimum requirements.

UNT is in a growth market. Hard to claim that football is the driving force behind any of that growth.

[DFW HOYA]

UNT is in a growth market. Hard to claim that football is the driving force behind any of that growth.

Yes, it's a growth market, but UNT is at a higher funding plateau after it moved up than, say, UT-Arlington or UT-Dallas, also in a growth market, but without an athletics presence.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

UL Lafayette's media guy has said Southern Miss, JMU, Marshall, and ODU are all headed to the Sun Belt. I got a text from someone who knows people in our athletics department that has said the same thing.

I'm thinking there will be places in CUSA open for anyone wanting to leave the FCS.

[aceinthehole]

That bridge was incinerated when UCONN sued BC when they left the Big East. Had that not happened, ACC membership would have been a possibility.

UMASS misread the tea leaves with regards to the break up of the Big East. They thought they were going to be able to leverage Bob Kraft's influence to get into the old Big East football conference alongside UCONN.

Sure, the lawsuit didn't endear UCONN to BC and Miami, but it is way too simplistic to say that's what actually kept them out of the ACC. UConn fans want to blame BC, Sen. Bluementhal, the boogie man, etc. - but they are unwilling to admit that UConn didn't have the football profile or market that the league was looking for.

UConn really only had 2-3 "allies" in the ACC and they were all "basketball-first" schools - (Duke, UNC, Syracuse and possibly UVa). The "football schools" (FSU, Clemson, Miami, VaTech) didn't see any upside in UConn and the Connecticut market. Pittsburgh and Louisville were always going to be better choices for the ACC. Yes, BC had no desire to see UConn added to the league and compete with them, but I think the rest of the league saw what little value BC added and didn't want to double-down in New England anyway.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yes, it's a growth market, but UNT is at a higher funding plateau after it moved up than, say, UT-Arlington or UT-Dallas, also in a growth market, but without an athletics presence.

What, if any, presence does UNT have in the metroplex? Was there a significant local/state political push to facilitate the rise of UNT's overall academic/athletic profile? How about corporate sponsors/sugar daddies?

What do you believe UNT's ceiling is in the AAC? Who will be the better addition North Texas or UTSA?

[aceinthehole]

Nova has the perfect life given their university and athletic department set up.

It's one UCONN really should consider, but pride is getting in the way. Maybe being back in the Big East now will help them swallow the idea of being a "P5/G5" type football program. Cut the football side to FCS, like Nova. Focus on building a good FCS program, and reinvest the rest into fixing the basketball issues that have come up.

NEVER going to happen. 'Nova is a small, regional Catholic university - UConn is a state flagship, national research university. Apples and Oranges. The state isn't going to support UConn football as a FCS program.

UConn may eventually drop the program entirely in a decade or so if things don't work out, but dropping down to FCS is 100% off the table as an option.

[caribbeanhen]

Is this really true? I mean, I know it's the fun meme we all love on this site as FCS fans about "grass isn't greener" but is it?

Let's look at the schools that have left, starting most recent

Liberty - **** everything about Liberty, but they have without a doubt become more relevant as a football program nationally. Milik Williams is a first round potential type QB. They've won more bowl games in their first four years as an FBS program than they had total playoff appearances in all their years as an FCS. Their recruiting profile for athletes has changed drastically. They are currently 5-2 and while they aren't in a conference they would be a top team 2 or 3 team in whatever G5 league they joined

Coastal Carolina - if you look at them and go "Their profile hasn't raised at all" you are just dumb as **** and can quit the board. They went from not having football, to a top 5 FCS team, to rushing the decision to move FBS, to being a top 15 ranked FBS team in a decade.

Charlotte - They were never going to be an FCS team. They started in the FCS in 2013 and left after 2014. To put them in with the idea of a "FCS move up" is really dumb.

App State - could be argued given their success at the FCS level that they have the highest bar to meet for "increasing profile" but it's safe to say they have. They just had 31,000 for a Wednesday night nationally televised game (against CCU). The Rock is now known nationally, rather than just FCS, for being a dope place to watch a game. They are dominant in the Sun Belt. They've played in 6 straight bowl games and won all of them, the last 4 by an average score of 42-14. They've been top 25 ranked. It's 100% undeniable their profile has gone up.

Georgia Southern - while not as successful as ASU since they moved up together their success has been good. From a play development standpoint they had 4 players drafted between 1987 and when they left the FCS. Since they moved FBS they have had 10 players drafted. Their recruiting profile is clearly higher. A large problem GSU has had is trying to overcome the old school "we are a triple option team" and move into a modern era offense while fighting back the tradition of what they have been.

Georgia State - see Charlotte.

ODU - They played 4 years in the FCS, and IIRC they were fairly explicit up front they didn't intend to stay FCS either. Though it's fair to say that their overall profile as a football program and university nationally is higher now than it was in 2011

UMASS - They are known nationally, but mostly as the team that can't find a home. I'll grant you they have floundered in their move

South Alabama - never an FCS program. They were a start up to go to FBS and only stayed FCS for 2 years because they had too

UTSA - start up with an Sun Belt offer. Only played FCS one year as a requirement.

Texas State - they were a trash FCS program and are a trash FBS program. If you're going to be a trash program it's better to be a trash program at the Sun Belt level than the Southland level. That's undeniably true.

That's every move up going back to 2011. Going back to before that we have

Western Kentucky - their profile as a football program, and athletic department, is significantly higher than it was in 2005/2006 nationally. They are on the wrong side of the CUSA implosion but to think they are a lower profile now is hilariously dumb and shows you don't follow college football - or athletics at all. I'd take them back in the Valley in a second for their basketball program.

FIU/FAU - See Georgia State, UTSA, UNCC, USA, etc.

Now we have to go back to the teams that moved up in the last millennia and have spent more time at the FBS level than the FCS level

Troy - They've raised their program level

UCONN - see UMASS though that's largely mismanagement and the Big East implosion dooming them. They went from FCS to a top 5 caliber team in theri first 7 years. Sustained a quality level for a bit and then **** in the fan.

USF - See FIU/FAU Georgia State, UTSA, UNCC, USA, etc. They played 2 seasons of FCS ball though their profile is pretty damn high for football. It's a bit up and down with results but undeniable what the success they've had has done overal for them.

We are now back far enough where I was in elementary school

Buffalo - went from being forced to move up because of the Dayton rule, going damn near winless for their FCS time, and to a decent caliber MAC team. They've 100% raised their level.

MTSU - is a pretty solid football program. Not a top 25 program but any G5 program is 2021 is more relevant than any FCS program in the mid 90s

Marshall - significantly higher than they were in the FCS. You can claim Moss and Pennington as FCS teams and look how known they were, but the school was moving up before they brought them in and brought them in with the promising of moving up. Overall they are much better off than they were for 99% of their time in the FCS.

UAB - SIGNIFICANTLY higher across their entire athletic department than they were in 95

Boise State - This is just laughable if we are trying to discuss if they are more relevant now and have raised their profile enough.

Do I really need to get into UCF, North Texas, ULM, Arkasas State, Nevada, LaTech, and Akron? They are all better off now than they were 30 years ago as FCS programs.

That list gives us 21 FCS to FBS move ups since 1986. I'll give you 3 that I'd consider "failures" - UMASS, UCONN, and Texas State. However, I've already talked about UCONN being semi outside their own control initially for how it turned south, and Texas State had no profile to raise.

Are those programs going to compete for the FBS title? No. Are 85% (18 of 21) of them better off as a university, and athletic department as a whole, than they were in the FCS? Yes. UMASS and UCONN are the only two I would go "They ****ed up" but given UCONN's initial success even that is hard to fault them for the move.

But you won't agree with me, Sader. I know this. Why? I've read enough of your posts. You like to think yourself a football knowledge god and knower of all, but outside of your tiny bubble of PL you just aren't.

I talked about this early in this thread. FCS fans are so ignorant to how thinsg are outside of our own little bubble that we can't see the forest through the trees in these kinds of discussions about moving up to the FBS. "I'd rather win 9 games here and lose a playoff game 300 people are at the first weekend of December on ESPN+ than win 7 games and play in a bowl game on ESPN that will have more viewers than every FCS game in history - outside of about 4 ever" is a hilariously dumb way to look at football and what moving up does or doesn't do. There isn't a single move up that would trade back down.


There is a reason only 1 program has ever gone back down, and it is a program that is so geographically isolated that it literally just couldn't survive financially. If Idaho was on the east coast like UMASS they'd have found a way to make it work. Being where they are they just couldn't.


the Northeast is not the place to be

Go south young man

[aceinthehole]

UL Lafayette's media guy has said Southern Miss, JMU, Marshall, and ODU are all headed to the Sun Belt. I got a text from someone who knows people in our athletics department that has said the same thing.

I'm thinking there will be places in CUSA open for anyone wanting to leave the FCS.

If Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss join the Sun Belt, then C-USA is left with just 5 schools:

Florida International
Louisiana Tech
Middle Tennessee
UTEP
Western Kentucky

I imagine they offer Liberty immediately to get to the NCAA minimum of 6. They can probably add Little Rock and UT Arlington (from the Sun Belt) on the hoops side to get to 8 full members.

But after that, are there any FCS schools willing to join that league?

[Sitting Bull]

Is this really true? I mean, I know it's the fun meme we all love on this site as FCS fans about "grass isn't greener" but is it?

Let's look at the schools that have left, starting most recent

Liberty - **** everything about Liberty, but they have without a doubt become more relevant as a football program nationally. Milik Williams is a first round potential type QB. They've won more bowl games in their first four years as an FBS program than they had total playoff appearances in all their years as an FCS. Their recruiting profile for athletes has changed drastically. They are currently 5-2 and while they aren't in a conference they would be a top team 2 or 3 team in whatever G5 league they joined

Coastal Carolina - if you look at them and go "Their profile hasn't raised at all" you are just dumb as **** and can quit the board. They went from not having football, to a top 5 FCS team, to rushing the decision to move FBS, to being a top 15 ranked FBS team in a decade.

Charlotte - They were never going to be an FCS team. They started in the FCS in 2013 and left after 2014. To put them in with the idea of a "FCS move up" is really dumb.

App State - could be argued given their success at the FCS level that they have the highest bar to meet for "increasing profile" but it's safe to say they have. They just had 31,000 for a Wednesday night nationally televised game (against CCU). The Rock is now known nationally, rather than just FCS, for being a dope place to watch a game. They are dominant in the Sun Belt. They've played in 6 straight bowl games and won all of them, the last 4 by an average score of 42-14. They've been top 25 ranked. It's 100% undeniable their profile has gone up.

Georgia Southern - while not as successful as ASU since they moved up together their success has been good. From a play development standpoint they had 4 players drafted between 1987 and when they left the FCS. Since they moved FBS they have had 10 players drafted. Their recruiting profile is clearly higher. A large problem GSU has had is trying to overcome the old school "we are a triple option team" and move into a modern era offense while fighting back the tradition of what they have been.

Georgia State - see Charlotte.

ODU - They played 4 years in the FCS, and IIRC they were fairly explicit up front they didn't intend to stay FCS either. Though it's fair to say that their overall profile as a football program and university nationally is higher now than it was in 2011

UMASS - They are known nationally, but mostly as the team that can't find a home. I'll grant you they have floundered in their move

South Alabama - never an FCS program. They were a start up to go to FBS and only stayed FCS for 2 years because they had too

UTSA - start up with an Sun Belt offer. Only played FCS one year as a requirement.

Texas State - they were a trash FCS program and are a trash FBS program. If you're going to be a trash program it's better to be a trash program at the Sun Belt level than the Southland level. That's undeniably true.

That's every move up going back to 2011. Going back to before that we have

Western Kentucky - their profile as a football program, and athletic department, is significantly higher than it was in 2005/2006 nationally. They are on the wrong side of the CUSA implosion but to think they are a lower profile now is hilariously dumb and shows you don't follow college football - or athletics at all. I'd take them back in the Valley in a second for their basketball program.

FIU/FAU - See Georgia State, UTSA, UNCC, USA, etc.

Now we have to go back to the teams that moved up in the last millennia and have spent more time at the FBS level than the FCS level

Troy - They've raised their program level

UCONN - see UMASS though that's largely mismanagement and the Big East implosion dooming them. They went from FCS to a top 5 caliber team in theri first 7 years. Sustained a quality level for a bit and then **** in the fan.

USF - See FIU/FAU Georgia State, UTSA, UNCC, USA, etc. They played 2 seasons of FCS ball though their profile is pretty damn high for football. It's a bit up and down with results but undeniable what the success they've had has done overal for them.

We are now back far enough where I was in elementary school

Buffalo - went from being forced to move up because of the Dayton rule, going damn near winless for their FCS time, and to a decent caliber MAC team. They've 100% raised their level.

MTSU - is a pretty solid football program. Not a top 25 program but any G5 program is 2021 is more relevant than any FCS program in the mid 90s

Marshall - significantly higher than they were in the FCS. You can claim Moss and Pennington as FCS teams and look how known they were, but the school was moving up before they brought them in and brought them in with the promising of moving up. Overall they are much better off than they were for 99% of their time in the FCS.

UAB - SIGNIFICANTLY higher across their entire athletic department than they were in 95

Boise State - This is just laughable if we are trying to discuss if they are more relevant now and have raised their profile enough.

Do I really need to get into UCF, North Texas, ULM, Arkasas State, Nevada, LaTech, and Akron? They are all better off now than they were 30 years ago as FCS programs.

That list gives us 21 FCS to FBS move ups since 1986. I'll give you 3 that I'd consider "failures" - UMASS, UCONN, and Texas State. However, I've already talked about UCONN being semi outside their own control initially for how it turned south, and Texas State had no profile to raise.

Are those programs going to compete for the FBS title? No. Are 85% (18 of 21) of them better off as a university, and athletic department as a whole, than they were in the FCS? Yes. UMASS and UCONN are the only two I would go "They ****ed up" but given UCONN's initial success even that is hard to fault them for the move.

But you won't agree with me, Sader. I know this. Why? I've read enough of your posts. You like to think yourself a football knowledge god and knower of all, but outside of your tiny bubble of PL you just aren't.

I talked about this early in this thread. FCS fans are so ignorant to how thinsg are outside of our own little bubble that we can't see the forest through the trees in these kinds of discussions about moving up to the FBS. "I'd rather win 9 games here and lose a playoff game 300 people are at the first weekend of December on ESPN+ than win 7 games and play in a bowl game on ESPN that will have more viewers than every FCS game in history - outside of about 4 ever" is a hilariously dumb way to look at football and what moving up does or doesn't do. There isn't a single move up that would trade back down.


There is a reason only 1 program has ever gone back down, and it is a program that is so geographically isolated that it literally just couldn't survive financially. If Idaho was on the east coast like UMASS they'd have found a way to make it work. Being where they are they just couldn't.

ODU was selling out their CAA games, 20,000+, now they are averaging 17,000 against G5 competition. And while moving up, they totally sunk their basketball programs which actually brought them national attention. How does that payoff. Maybe they’ll get there but for now, ODU has been a huge disappointment.

[WestCoastAggie]

ODU was selling out their CAA games, 20,000+, now they are averaging 17,000 against G5 competition. And while moving up, they totally sunk their basketball programs which actually brought them national attention. How does that payoff. Maybe they’ll get there but for now, ODU has been a huge disappointment.

They'll now be able to tango with JMU, and Marshall now. I also think that Sun Belt basketball could also improve with these moves.

[MR. CHICKEN]

ODU was selling out their CAA games, 20,000+, now they are averaging 17,000 against G5 competition. And while moving up, they totally sunk their basketball programs which actually brought them national attention. How does that payoff. Maybe they’ll get there but for now, ODU has been a huge disappointment.

......TAYLOR HEINICKE GRADUATED........................BRAWQUE!!

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status/1451617356774625281

Dennis Dodd now reporting JMU, ODU, Southern Miss, and Marshall to the Sun Belt. I'd say it's all done but the official announcements.

[MR. CHICKEN]

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status/1451617356774625281

Dennis Dodd now reporting JMU, ODU, Southern Miss, and Marshall to the Sun Belt. I'd say it's all done but the official announcements.

..... APP STATE'S......REIGN UH TERROR...........OVER.........BRAWQUE!!

[Professor Chaos]

CAA about to become the new SOCON???

[WestCoastAggie]

CAA about to become the new SOCON???

What does that make the SoCon? The new Big South? https://c.tenor.com/wL63jXI0v_cAAAAC/drums-troll.gif

[atthewbon]

https://twitter.com/The_BrakeDown/status/1451628092393463818

From the same CBS article Sam Houston, McNeese, and "every aspiring fcs program" have been in contact with the cusa. There could be a lot of spaces to fill in the cusa so it makes sense.

[katss07]

Oh hell no. No thanks. Pass.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Congrats JMU and the Sun Belt! The conference has gone from a legit embarrassment to likely the best non-power FBS football conference in the country! That's the sign of great leadership and a collection of institutions who are comfortable in their own skin (mission/ideology).

If nothing else, I hope like hell Temple schedules OOC games with JMU, Marshall, Coastal Carolina and App State! We need as many purple streamers at the Linc as we can get.

What happens to the CAA? Villanova is clearly the league's top name brand program at this point. Delaware COULD be it but the last decade has shown "those days might not be returning". UNH is still viable but they've been taking on water lately too (not like UD). Richmond and W&M continue to have their ups and downs so consistency is not really their thing. Stony Brook is AAU but tied at the hip with Albany. Maine is a solid program but obviously "up there". Elon should go back to the SoCon imo...

If only the Patriot League had a bleeping clue. Now would be the time to expand FOR THE BETTER and not for the sake of doing so....

[WestCoastAggie]

Congrats JMU and the Sun Belt! The conference has gone from a legit embarrassment to likely the best non-power FBS football conference in the country! That's the sign of great leadership and a collection of institutions who are comfortable in their own skin (mission/ideology).

If nothing else, I hope like hell Temple schedules OOC games with JMU, Marshall, Coastal Carolina and App State! We need as many purple streamers at the Linc as we can get.

What happens to the CAA? Villanova is clearly the league's top name brand program at this point. Delaware COULD be it but the last decade has shown "those days might not be returning". UNH is still viable but they've been taking on water lately too (not like UD). Richmond and W&M continue to have their ups and downs so consistency is not really their thing. Stony Brook is AAU but tied at the hip with Albany. Maine is a solid program but obviously "up there". Elon should go back to the SoCon imo...

If only the Patriot League had a bleeping clue. Now would be the time to expand FOR THE BETTER and not for the sake of doing so....

Meh... PL leadership is too tied with the Ivy to make any smart Athletics based decisions.

[unknown3]

Oh hell no. No thanks. Pass.

Considering they're going to need Texas Teams for UTEP, your admin is likely working the numbers right about now.

[UNHWildcat18]

I think this is going to cause a large wave from CUSA taking potential FCS teams to the east coast FCS leagues shaking up. God I wish AE could take Towson, Delaware and Northeastern back... AE football then gets associates from URI(will never leave UNH/Maine/SBU/Albany) and Nova... Thats 8 teams... offer football to Richmond and William and Mary. That would be so much more stable than the CAA. Drexel and Hofstra can head to the MAAC. Elon back to Soconn with UNCGW and CofC.

One can dream but the CAA holding onto teams from Boston to South Carolina just isn't going to be sustainable if this wave trickles down any further.

[Sitting Bull]

Congrats JMU and the Sun Belt! The conference has gone from a legit embarrassment to likely the best non-power FBS football conference in the country! That's the sign of great leadership and a collection of institutions who are comfortable in their own skin (mission/ideology).

If nothing else, I hope like hell Temple schedules OOC games with JMU, Marshall, Coastal Carolina and App State! We need as many purple streamers at the Linc as we can get.

What happens to the CAA? Villanova is clearly the league's top name brand program at this point. Delaware COULD be it but the last decade has shown "those days might not be returning". UNH is still viable but they've been taking on water lately too (not like UD). Richmond and W&M continue to have their ups and downs so consistency is not really their thing. Stony Brook is AAU but tied at the hip with Albany. Maine is a solid program but obviously "up there". Elon should go back to the SoCon imo...

If only the Patriot League had a bleeping clue. Now would be the time to expand FOR THE BETTER and not for the sake of doing so....

If the CAA decided to replace JMU - which I’m not certain they will - you bring up a point on the PL which I never thought until now, whether any of the schools there may have interest. It would certainly be an upgrade in football, basketball as well. I wonder if a HC or Colgate would have any interest as an all sports member.

The CAA should try and fill with an all sports member. The core are four right now: Delaware, Towson, W&M and Elon with UR and Villanova strong football only members.

I mentioned Furman before. Holy Cross might be another. Hey, they’re both purple too.

[HootyHoo]

I wonder which FCS programs C-USA would be interested in bringing up? Sam Houston makes a lot of sense. JacksonVille State and Central Arkanasas are in the regional footprint as well. Could Jackson State with all of the Prime Time publicity be a candidate? Delaware? And of course, Hooty will throw KSU's hat into the ring.

[FUBeAR]

CAA about to become the new SOCON???Not sure what that is supposed to mean. Are you projecting the CAA will soon win 5 National Championships to match the 8 that SoCon Teams have won?

Anyway…FUBeAR has already instructed the SoCon mucky-mucks to go get Richmond and William & Mary to bring them out of exile & back into The Promised Land. Happy to rebate UNC-G to the CAA as ‘compensation,’ but the Hoops crowd might disagree. Also, told them to get another if any promising candidates can be found. Probably need to be a public to keep the ETSU, Chatt, and WCU contingents happy…maybe TennTech…FUBeAR would prefer NC A&T though…12 would be a nice number. 9 has been good, but some cool things could be done with 12.

Welcome Home to the Spiders & The Tribe!

[aceinthehole]

If the CAA decided to replace JMU - which I’m not certain they will - you bring up a point on the PL which I never thought until now, whether any of the schools there may have interest. It would certainly be an upgrade in football, basketball as well. I wonder if a HC or Colgate would have any interest as an all sports member.

The CAA should try and fill with an all sports member. The core are four right now: Delaware, Towson, W&M and Towson with UR and Villanova strong football only members.

I mentioned Furman before. Holy Cross might be another. Hey, they’re both purple too.


The CAA has to replace JMU, as the league will be down to 9 members. Their #1 priority for the CAA is getting a 10th basketball program to maintain an 18-game hoops schedule.

CAA Football can continue on with 11 members, and if the CAA happens to add a school with football as a member they will have a spot in the football league.

Bottom line - the CAA has to address its full membership issue first - football is fine and will work itself out.

Potential CAA candidates?

- Campbell
- Monmouth
- Winthrop

[FUBeAR]

If the CAA decided to replace JMU - I mentioned Furman before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JOsUhrrxeg

Y’all come on home, instead.

[Sitting Bull]

The CAA has to replace JMU, as the league will be down to 9 members. Their #1 priority for the CAA is getting a 10th basketball program to maintain an 18-game hoops schedule.

CAA Football can continue on with 11 members, and if the CAA happens to add a school with football as a member they will have a spot in the football league.

Bottom line - the CAA has to address its full membership issue first - football is fine and will work itself out.

Holy Cross would be perfect. All sports. They would be perfect travel partner with Northeastern.

[aceinthehole]

Holy Cross would be perfect. All sports. They would be perfect travel partner with Northeastern.

Lots of options for the CAA, but where is the interest mutual?

IMO - the CAA has to prioritize basketball in replacing JMU, so I'm not sure HC would be the best choice, but there are a lot of schools both with and without football that will be considered.

[Professor Chaos]

Not sure what that is supposed to mean. Are you projecting the CAA will soon win 5 National Championships to match the 8 that SoCon Teams have won?

Anyway…FUBeAR has already instructed the SoCon mucky-mucks to go get Richmond and William & Mary to bring them out of exile & back into The Promised Land. Happy to rebate UNC-G to the CAA as ‘compensation,’ but the Hoops crowd might disagree. Also, told them to get another if any promising candidates can be found. Probably need to be a public to keep the ETSU, Chatt, and WCU contingents happy…maybe TennTech…FUBeAR would prefer NC A&T though…12 would be a nice number. 9 has been good, but some cool things could be done with 12.

Welcome Home to the Spiders & The Tribe!
It means the CAA losing JMU is pretty similar to the SOCON losing App St and Georgia Southern. The SOCON used to be in the mix with the top 3 conferences in the FCS/1AA as the CAA was... those days are gone for the SOCON and probably will be gone for the CAA too (at least they'll be clearly behind the Big Sky and MVFC) unless Delaware, among others, is able to rekindle some past success.

[Pard4Life]

The CAA has to replace JMU, as the league will be down to 9 members. Their #1 priority for the CAA is getting a 10th basketball program to maintain an 18-game hoops schedule.

CAA Football can continue on with 11 members, and if the CAA happens to add a school with football as a member they will have a spot in the football league.

Bottom line - the CAA has to address its full membership issue first - football is fine and will work itself out.

Potential CAA candidates?

- Campbell
- Monmouth
- Winthrop


Fordham makes sense.

[#1 pick]

I wonder which FCS programs C-USA would be interested in bringing up? Sam Houston makes a lot of sense. JacksonVille State and Central Arkanasas are in the regional footprint as well. Could Jackson State with all of the Prime Time publicity be a candidate? Delaware? And of course, Hooty will throw KSU's hat into the ring.
For me:

Here are the schools I'll consider for the CUSA from the FCS:
I'll actually stick with regional battles.

I'll replace
So Miss with Jackson State
UAB with McNeese State
I am not sure if Sam Houston can make the move, they barely move the ticket attendance wise.
I would consider Missouri State, Jacksonville State, and Central Arkansas.
Replace Charlotte with North Carolina A&T

Teams I would love if it wasn't for geography fit issues:
North Dakota St and South Dakota St.


Teams with a national base:
Howard and Hampton

Teams with money issues for state or local reasons:
Florida A&M
Kennesaw State

Sleepers:
Tennessee State, Mercer, Furman, and Campbell.



To me, the best FCS schools who could smoothly transition are Jackson State, North Dakota State, Missouri State, and Sam Houston St into FBS lower level Football.

I actually think Jackson State has the highest upside. They have the most eyeballs, national brand, Great attendance for mid-tier FBS football school while being world class for FCS, and they have Deion Sanders and his brand.

Jackson State is worthy of consideration. The attendance, fanfare, national brand and fanbase is legit.

[#1 pick]

THE CRITERIA

Geography was chosen as the first criteria because in order for the conference to gel over time, the schools should be within close proximity to each other. Also, limiting travel expenses is paramount for the participating schools, as well as for fans that travel to the various school venues for athletic events. Easier, quicker access means a larger likelihood that attendance will be higher. The second part of the criteria was stadium size. As many are aware of the circumstances surrounding Villanova's planned move to FBS football, the issue of adequate facilities is one that has to be addressed. Each school must have a stadium in place large enough to meet NCAA minimum attendance requirements (at least 15,000 average home attendance, once every two years) for FBS standards.

That means a school must have an existing stadium that seats a minimum of 15,000 fans. Larger is better, but to be in the conversation, 15,000 is the opening bid. If a school does not already have the minimum size facility in place, the school was eliminated as a candidate, mainly because other schools involved in the plan to collectively move up as a conference should not be theoretically held hostage while one or two schools try to find funding to pay for facilities that meet NCAA standards, or have to wait for a new stadium to be built or upgrades to be completed. The third part of the equation is average attendance. All but four of the final candidates met the NCAA's 15,000 attendance minimum for the 2010 football season.

For the four that did not meet the requirements, the excitement and "buzz" generated from the move up to FBS-level football should create a natural increase in attendance. Taking that into consideration with the close proximity of the schools within this new theoretical conference, and traveling fanbases will help conference mates meet those standards. Further, most FCS teams and fans are used to attending contests that are poorly attended by the majority of the opposing schools they face. The schools in this "Eastern Mountain Conference"are all in the top half of FCS attendance, and most are in the top 25 percemt when it comes to FCS attendance. Larger crowds mean more revenue, and in particular more fan interest across the board. The 12 schools that made the cut to form this conference are from eight different states. Some of the programs are relatively new.

Some have long traditions, while several have expressed a desire or an interest in potentially moving up to FBS-level football. The beauty of having a conference this size is that scheduling games to meet NCAA FBS scheduling requirements will be more easily met. In addition, a nationally televised conference championship game in football could be an economic boost to the conference and help garner a relatively lucrative television contract. In terms of non-conference scheduling, BCS schools are paying larger and larger amounts of money to non-automatic BCS qualifying schools for non-returnable games (a game in which no return game by the BCS school is required).

[NY Crusader 2010]

Fordham makes sense.

The CAA doesn't need football affiliates. If they expand and/or replace schools, they will want all-sports members first and foremost.

Fordham is not leaving the A-10 in the next 4-5 years unless they're somehow kicked out. Reason I say this is because all the Fordham supporters and alum I've spoken to recently are VERY high on the new Men's Basketball coaching hire.

But if Fordham does get to the point of giving up on the quarter-century long A-10 experiment, the CAA for all sports would be the perfect fit. As much as I'd like them in the Patriot League...

- - - Updated - - -


For me:

Here are the schools I'll consider for the CUSA from the FCS:
I'll actually stick with regional battles.

I'll replace
So Miss with Jackson State
UAB with McNeese State
I am not sure if Sam Houston can make the move, they barely move the ticket attendance wise.
I would consider Missouri State, Jacksonville State, and Central Arkansas.
Replace Charlotte with North Carolina A&T

Teams I would love if it wasn't for geography fit issues:
North Dakota St and South Dakota St.


Teams with a national base:
Howard and Hampton

Teams with money issues for state or local reasons:
Florida A&M
Kennesaw State

Sleepers:
Tennessee State, Mercer, Furman, and Campbell.



To me, the best FCS schools who could smoothly transition are Jackson State, North Dakota State, Missouri State, and Sam Houston St into FBS lower level Football.

I actually think Jackson State has the highest upside. They have the most eyeballs, national brand, Great attendance for mid-tier FBS football school while being world class for FCS, and they have Deion Sanders and his brand.

Jackson State is worthy of consideration. The attendance, fanfare, national brand and fanbase is legit.

In other words, time for CUSA to fold.

[DFW HOYA]

Potential CAA candidates?

- Campbell
- Monmouth
- Winthrop

Winthrop doesn't play football.

I don't see the CAA expanding, but some regional choices would be, in order:

1. Fordham, FB only
2. Hampton
3. Holy Cross*
4. Lehigh/Lafayette as a pair*
5. Howard
6. Georgetown, FB only
7. Monmouth
8. CCSU
9. Robert Morris
10. Delaware St.

* Either of these changes ends Patriot League football by the league bylaws, which require five full time members playing the sport.

[FUBeAR]

For me:

Here are the schools I'll consider for the CUSA from the FCS:
I'll actually stick with regional battles.

I'll replace
So Miss with Jackson State
UAB with McNeese State
I am not sure if Sam Houston can make the move, they barely move the ticket attendance wise.
I would consider Missouri State, Jacksonville State, and Central Arkansas.
Replace Charlotte with North Carolina A&T

Teams I would love if it wasn't for geography fit issues:
North Dakota St and South Dakota St.


Teams with a national base:
Howard and Hampton

Teams with money issues for state or local reasons:
Florida A&M
Kennesaw State

Sleepers:
Tennessee State, Mercer, Furman, and Campbell.



To me, the best FCS schools who could smoothly transition are Jackson State, North Dakota State, Missouri State, and Sam Houston St into FBS lower level Football.

I actually think Jackson State has the highest upside. They have the most eyeballs, national brand, Great attendance for mid-tier FBS football school while being world class for FCS, and they have Deion Sanders and his brand.

Jackson State is worthy of consideration. The attendance, fanfare, national brand and fanbase is legit.Furman has no interest in moving to FBS. If they did, FUBeAR’s interest in & support of Furman would immediately wane.

[aceinthehole]

Winthrop doesn't play football.

I don't see the CAA expanding, but some regional choices would be, in order:

1. Fordham, FB only
2. Hampton
3. Holy Cross
4. Lehigh/Lafayette as a pair
5. Howard
6. Georgetown, FB only
7. Monmouth
8. CCSU
9. Robert Morris
10. Delaware St.

So what? The CAA doesn't NEED another football program (they have 11), but they need a basketball program. I think the CAA is going to be looking at anyone in their footprint that "adds competitive value" to their basketball loop.

The real question is what school is interested in joining the CAA as a full member?

I don't see any Patriot League team leaving, including Holy Cross or BU.

Certainly Monmouth is very interesting option, but why would the CAA take them for just football? So we have to ask, are the Hawks willing to leave the MAAC for all sports?

The AE schools already have access to CAA Football, so there is no real reason for anyone, including Albany and SBU, to join the CAA full-time.

No NEC or MEAC team will be considered.

Can they pick off a SoCon team? I'm not familiar enough with the dynamics of that league, but I think it is doubtful.

That leaves them likely looking at Big South. Winthrop is the best basketball brand in the Big South, so who cares that they don't play football. They would be an upgrade from JMU on the hoops side of the ledger. Campbell would be an option and they do have football.

Murray State from the OVC would be a great addition for basketball, but they are too far outside the existing footprint and would be a isolated geographically which makes it unlikely.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Fordham will have a new president which means other key leadership positions will change as well. McShane's mindset when it came to athletics never wavered much from his time at the University of Scranton. Perhaps this leadership transition results in a some changes for Fordham athletics?

Fordham fans have been touting the new coach as the "savor" for nearly 30 years. Kyle Neptune established a tremendous amount of equity as a key assistant under Wright. With that said, he's at Fordham because he accepted the job; one of the worst in the country based on W/L over the last 25+ years. What were his other options now and moving forward?

[#1 pick]

In other words, time for CUSA to fold.
You just gotta look at schools who can qualify:
Jackson St. Montana JMU Alabama St, NDSU, Montana St. Sorthern U, NC A&T, Jacksonville St. and Florida A&M with Delaware, Alcorn, and Yale on the border.

You look at the top teams in FCS football wise as well as if they have the attendance or capacity:





1 Sam Houston (26) 5-0 674 1 - Close but no. They need a much bigger stadium.
2 Eastern Washington (2) 7-0 670 2 - No chance
3 North Dakota State 6-0 646 3 - 100%
4 Southern Illinois 6-1 605 4 - No chance
5 Villanova 5-1 581 5 - Need another upgrade and higher attendance
6 James Madison 5-1 561 7 - Already going FBS
7 South Dakota State 5-1 543 8 - Not quite at the mark but if they had FBS hype, I think they could.
8 Montana State 6-1 509 9 - Yes
9 Southeastern Louisiana 5-1 453 11 - No chance
10 UC Davis 6-1 419 12 - No chance
11 Kennesaw State 5-1 409 13 - No chance
12 Montana 4-2 376 6 - Yes
13 UT Martin 5-1 347 16 - No chance
14 East Tennessee State 6-1 312 10 - The attendance is legit but they don't have even 50% of the seats needed to even be considered.
15 South Dakota 5-2 268 21 - They have the capacity but attendance is horrible
16 Harvard 5-0 246 19 - Could but won't
17 Princeton 5-0 193 20 - Could but won't
18 Missouri State 4-2 184 23 - They are close, with FBS hype, could do it.
19 Rhode Island 5-1 169 14 - No chance
20 Jackson State 5-1 151 25 - 100%
21 Jacksonville State 3-3 111 22 - 100%
22 Eastern Kentucky 5-2 89 NR - Very close
23 VMI 5-2 89 NR - No chance
24 Northern Iowa 3-3 85 17 - No chance
25 Delaware - 100%

Of the teams that have the capacity, most of the FCS HBCUs, Ivies, and schools like McNeese have the capacity.




Of the schools with the money: Jackson St. Montana, JMU, NDSU, Montana St., NC A&T, Jacksonville St., Delaware, and McNeese, and Jacksonville State.

Since the CUSA is southeast based, Montana, Montana St., NDSU is eliminated. The best schools left to be picked by the CUSA is:

1. Delaware
2. Jackson State
3. North Carolina A&T
4. Jacksonville St.

After that, it's questionable. McNeese has the capacity, nowhere near close for attendance. Sam Houston has the quality, not the attendance or capacity. Missouri State is VERY close. If you are the CUSA, do you go outside of your region, I strongly believe you don't. Olympic sports matter too much in terms of travel. There is a reason why the Sun Belt has grown. Because they are smart.

I do not believe the CUSA is done. They just have to have a strong plan. They need teams that can get eyeballs but they can't just accept everyone, regionality matters more than ever.

[NY Crusader 2010]

So what? The CAA doesn't NEED another football program (they have 11), but they need a basketball program. I think the CAA is going to be looking at anyone in their footprint that "adds competitive value" to their basketball loop.

The real question is what school is interested in joining the CAA as a full member?

I don't see any Patriot League team leaving, including Holy Cross or BU.

Certainly Monmouth is very interesting option, but why would the CAA take them for just football? So we have to ask, are the Hawks willing to leave the MAAC for all sports?

The AE schools already have access to CAA Football, so there is no real reason for anyone, including Albany and SBU, to join the CAA full-time.

No NEC or MEAC team will be considered.

Can they pick off a SoCon team? I'm not familiar enough with the dynamics of that league, but I think it is doubtful.

That leaves them likely looking at Big South. Winthrop is the best basketball brand in the Big South, so who cares that they don't play football. They would be an upgrade from JMU on the hoops side of the ledger. Campbell would be an option and they do have football.

Murray State from the OVC would be a great addition for basketball, but they are too far outside the existing footprint and would be a isolated geographically which makes it unlikely.

You're right on the mark. As someone who's followed CAA sports (to include YanCon/A-10/CAA Football) for 25 years, I can tell you that the top expansion candidates will almost undoubtedly come out of the following group:

Furman -- may very well be the CAA's top target. Few remember but they were actually slated to join the CAA in 2001 alongside The Citadel and Davidson before Richmond's move to the A-10 resulted in a domino effect of those changes not happening. And ultimately the expansion pivoted north instead => Delaware, Drexel, Towson, Hofstra and Northeastern were added at that time.

Campbell -- up-and-coming sports school. Had they not moved up the latter to FBS so fast, Coastal probably would have been in the CAA by now. Campbell will be a great fit and one they won't have to worry will use the CAA as a stepping stone to the Sun Belt.

Winthrop -- CAA is still looking to regain the basketball clout lost when VCU, GMU and ODU departed a decade ago. This could make sense.

Monmouth -- again an up-and-coming school, attractive location, and proven track record of success and commitment in both basketball and football.

Fairfield -- rumors surfaced a few years back. Never a bad idea IMO to have a presence in the wealthiest state in the US per capita. And Fairfield bridges the geographical gap between Hofstra and Northeastern quite nicely. FU is also an affiliate member in lacrosse so they already have relationship with the league.

Worth considering => Stony Brook an Albany, at the time they joined as football affiliates, were supposedly a few years away from joining in all sports. Reason I heard at the time was that Albany was scheduled to host the America East basketball tournament in 2014 or 2015 and wanted to wait until after. Low and behold, it's been five years and nothing. Political pressure to keep the 3 SUNY schools together perhaps?

Dark horses: Kennessaw State, Mercer => there's precedent in the state of Georgia as Georgia State was a member from about 2005 - 2012. Their move to Sun Belt escalated quickly once they kicked off a football program which I think went something like 1-15 in 2 years of CAA ball.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Kennesaw State would be an intriguing addition by athletics standards. Institutionally I'm not sure if the flagship state schools, AAU Stony Brook along with Richmond/Nova want to be associated with KSU. The Owls really needs to raise their academic profile/wealth. Georgia State, as a school, had a lot more to sell...

[aceinthehole]

Crusader,

Agree with the Furman, Campbell, and Winthrop. And when looking at MAAC schools, Monmouth seems to be the best fit, because it would put the Hawks hoops and football in same conference and put the league in New Jersey.

Fairfield is also interesting and could work, but why not Quinnipiac? They seem like the school more willing and able to make the switch.

Sorry, but I just don't see any reason for Albany and SBU to join now, especially while you have Hofstra likely pitching a fit. UMBC would also be a nice addition, if they weren't in Towson's front yard. :)

I think going to Georgia (KSU or Mercer) would be a huge travel burden for everyone; same reason I don't think Murray State is viable.

[aceinthehole]

Kennesaw State would be an intriguing addition by athletics standards. Institutionally I'm not sure if the flagship state schools, AAU Stony Brook along with Richmond/Nova want to be associated with KSU. The Owls really needs to raise their academic profile/wealth. Georgia State, as a school, had a lot more to sell...

But those schools (SBU, 'Nova, Richmond, etc.) don't get a vote.

If the CAA really wants to add KSU (unlikely as I think that may be), it will be determined by the 9 all-sports members of the CAA. Remember that majority of Northeastern, Drexel, Hofstra, Charleston, and UNCW have to agree with what Delaware, Towson, W&M, and Elon want to add.

Football is probably taking a back seat in the CAA calculus, and even if it is important, the CAA football affiliates don't have any say in what the full CAA membership decides to do.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Crusader,

Agree with the Furman, Campbell, and Winthrop. And when looking at MAAC schools, Monmouth seems to be the best fit, because it would put the Hawks hoops and football in same conference and put the league in New Jersey.

Fairfield is also interesting and could work, but why not Quinnipiac? They seem like the school more willing and able to make the switch.

Sorry, but I just don't see any reason for Albany and SBU to join now, especially while you have Hofstra likely pitching a fit. UMBC would also be a nice addition, if they weren't in Towson's front yard. :)

I think going to Georgia (KSU or Mercer) would be a huge travel burden for everyone; same reason I don't think Murray State is viable.

I can't see the CAA going after a school where hockey drives the athletic apple cart to the extent that it does at QU. Quinnipiac is essentially Merrimack but with no football.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

But those schools (SBU, 'Nova, Richmond, etc.) don't get a vote.

If the CAA really wants to add KSU (unlikely as I think that may be), it will be determined by the 9 all-sports members of the CAA. Remember that majority of Northeastern, Drexel, Hofstra, Charleston, and UNCW have to agree with what Delaware, Towson, W&M, and Elon want to add.

Football is probably taking a back seat in the CAA calculus, and even if it is important, the CAA football affiliates don't have any say in what the full CAA membership decides to do.

Noted on the voting bylaws. As it is, influence still factors in...

The schools that make up CAA athletics are, generally speaking, well respected and possess some "flex". A bit of an ACC-lite....

[Sitting Bull]

So what? The CAA doesn't NEED another football program (they have 11), but they need a basketball program. I think the CAA is going to be looking at anyone in their footprint that "adds competitive value" to their basketball loop.

The real question is what school is interested in joining the CAA as a full member?

I don't see any Patriot League team leaving, including Holy Cross or BU.

Certainly Monmouth is very interesting option, but why would the CAA take them for just football? So we have to ask, are the Hawks willing to leave the MAAC for all sports?

The AE schools already have access to CAA Football, so there is no real reason for anyone, including Albany and SBU, to join the CAA full-time.

No NEC or MEAC team will be considered.

Can they pick off a SoCon team? I'm not familiar enough with the dynamics of that league, but I think it is doubtful.

That leaves them likely looking at Big South. Winthrop is the best basketball brand in the Big South, so who cares that they don't play football. They would be an upgrade from JMU on the hoops side of the ledger. Campbell would be an option and they do have football.

Murray State from the OVC would be a great addition for basketball, but they are too far outside the existing footprint and would be a isolated geographically which makes it unlikely.

Not sure why you keep saying the CAA doesn’t need another football member. Strategically, they should be working to add all sports members which would include football. They did so with Elon and were close to adding UAlbany for all sports.

Otherwise you have a basketball conference built with affiliates in football. That’s not nearly as solid.

The right move would be to add a member who will be an all sports member.

[Sitting Bull]

But those schools (SBU, 'Nova, Richmond, etc.) don't get a vote.

If the CAA really wants to add KSU (unlikely as I think that may be), it will be determined by the 9 all-sports members of the CAA. Remember that majority of Northeastern, Drexel, Hofstra, Charleston, and UNCW have to agree with what Delaware, Towson, W&M, and Elon want to add.

Football is probably taking a back seat in the CAA calculus, and even if it is important, the CAA football affiliates don't have any say in what the full CAA membership decides to do.

I don’t think any of the current members would mind if the néw member plays football. If they feel it’s a good add, they will approve. I can’t see any turning thumbs down to Furman or Holy Cross.

The interest level would have to be mutual. Furman probably has more allegiance to the So Con than HC to the Patriot. If I’ve read the fan base correctly, I think HC fans would enjoy a broader conference that provides a step up in both the major sports. Will be interesting to see how this ends. My hunch tells me Holy Cross might be the more desirable add given Northeastern, Hofstra and Drexel. W&M, Delaware, Towson and Elon would likely be happy to have the football side of the add.

[ST_Lawson]

Monmouth -- again an up-and-coming school, attractive location, and proven track record of success and commitment in both basketball and football.

Monmouth was my first thought. Solid football and basketball and within the CAA footprint, so I could see why the CAA might be interested.

As for Monmouth's perspective, they're pretty "out there" in terms of the Big South footprint, so it might help in football. On the other hand, the CAA is a bit more spread out than the MAAC, so they'd be taking on some additional travel costs for all other sports. Depending on which ranking you look at, the MAAC is either right about the same as the CAA or a bit behind them currently in terms of the quality of basketball, so it's not like they're dropping down to a horrible basketball conference. It would likely raise their football profile a bit going to a league like the CAA.
Monmouth might have a bit more "running the numbers" to do before deciding if that's in their best interests.

[katss07]

Considering they're going to need Texas Teams for UTEP, your admin is likely working the numbers right about now.
Unfortunately it seems you’re right. Pete Thamel, who broke the original Sun Belt news and is YahooSports’ main CFB guy, is reporting SHSU, Tarleton and NMSU are being vetted. They’re trying to “fortify the western flank” and are in “active pursuit”. What is this, war?

Tarleton announced tonight they’re going to expand their stadium to north of 20k. Seems like this is gaining some legs maybe.

[acbearkat]

Unfortunately it seems you’re right. Pete Thamel, who broke the original Sun Belt news and is YahooSports’ main CFB guy, is reporting SHSU, Tarleton and NMSU are being vetted. They’re trying to “fortify the western flank” and are in “active pursuit”. What is this, war?

Tarleton announced tonight they’re going to expand their stadium to north of 20k. Seems like this is gaining some legs maybe.

I doubt we would move up to the FBS without SFA. That game means too much to both schools to give it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blue Waves Crest]

You ain't wrong. I've been saying Conferences are business that are about revenue, and the way to garner revenue is by expanding your market....the product on the field doesn't matter as much as the potential eyes (NOTICE: Potential), Chattanooga is a top 100 market at about 600k in their MSA, that means they are going to be more sought after than a team from a much more successful team in a 100k market with multiple Natty Feathers in their cap. Past history is just that with conferences...past....however, the fanbase does factor some. Total alumni and alumni penetration are considered, but they are secondary to the size of the Metropolitan Statistical Area...It is business.

It’s exactly because they prioritized metros that the AAC is a house of cards. They’re just promoting CUSA programs under a new conf name with no league identity. Sun Belt is adding teams that actually make sense, mostly college towns in states that are near each other with good geographic relevance, and they’re going to have a stronger league long term because of it. AAC is playing checkers, Sun Belt is playing chess. I think some like pretending this isn’t about the games on the field just because there’s money involved.

Those of you who know about business understand that your product matters, your distribution channel also matters, but long term the product matters way more than the distribution channel. Your product is your identity, your distribution channel is just a tool for getting it to market. 2010’s conf realignment was about getting that TV money and teams with comparable products wanted to get better distribution. When all else is equal, sure, its better to be in a bigger metro. This was also before the streaming era began in earnest so it meant a lot more to get closer to regular broadcast television.

But that was 10 years ago. We’re at the point where the AAC is taking programs in metros that have way lesser products than the Sun Belt has. 2020’s conf realignment is more about beefing up the product than securing good distribution channels. Everybody outside of the P5 is streaming anymore, there’s not much variability in the distribution channels G5 and below (except for FloSports [emoji6]). You can’t just take a city school who’s program has no cultural relevance and expect it’s half-empty stadium and juiceless schedule to have viewership value in a streaming environment


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blue Waves Crest]

I keep seeing talk that the CUSA and other schools on the losing end of this wave of realignment should go down to FCS. While competitively this might be good for those programs, consider that long term this would harm the sport. Every program that drops from FBS to FCS is taking 22 scholarships out of the D1 level. That’s not good. These so-called football purists in the P5 who want their own super league are actively eroding the sport for a buck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[acbearkat]

I keep seeing talk that the CUSA and other schools on the losing end of this wave of realignment should go down to FCS. While competitively this might be good for those programs, consider that long term this would harm the sport. Every program that drops from FBS to FCS is taking 22 scholarships out of the D1 level. That’s not good. These so-called football purists in the P5 who want their own super league are actively eroding the sport for a buck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Schools need to be looking out for their best interests. That’s exactly what Texas and Oklahoma did. While the move to the SEC is not official yet, next year, both programs can sell the SEC angle in recruiting because the 2023 guys will be playing in the SEC by no later than their third year, if not earlier. Both OU and UT have lost recruits to SEC programs, and now joining the SEC, that’s less likely to happen, and it could have a negative impact on Ohio State’s recruiting efforts in Texas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sader87]

Holy Cross isn't going anywhere. On paper they are a good fit for the CAA athletically (football and basketball wise) but the school made a determination 30+ years ago to deemphasize major athletics to join (form) the Patriot League and in the ensuing time period the school's philosophy toward athletics has become interwoven with the PL.

The school now markets/sells itself as a D1 school where you can play lacrosse, soccer, volleyball (and 20 other sports) etc and get a good education but with no great expectations/pressure on how well those teams perform. About 25% of HC students are varsity sports athletes today....it has basically become the school's model....there's no way they abandon that model to play CAA football.

Not saying I agree with this...but that's just the reality of the situation.

[Blue Waves Crest]

Monmouth was my first thought. Solid football and basketball and within the CAA footprint, so I could see why the CAA might be interested.

As for Monmouth's perspective, they're pretty "out there" in terms of the Big South footprint, so it might help in football. On the other hand, the CAA is a bit more spread out than the MAAC, so they'd be taking on some additional travel costs for all other sports. Depending on which ranking you look at, the MAAC is either right about the same as the CAA or a bit behind them currently in terms of the quality of basketball, so it's not like they're dropping down to a horrible basketball conference. It would likely raise their football profile a bit going to a league like the CAA.
Monmouth might have a bit more "running the numbers" to do before deciding if that's in their best interests.

I’ve talked myself in and out of this several times. If I were the CAA I’d be looking to replace an all sports member in JMU with an all sports member too. If Monmouth had enough clout they could negotiate a football-only membership but I’m not sure if the bargaining power is there. We would need another addition to our football stadium that was just built in 2017 to be comparable to current CAA programs so it’s not like we can really make demands.

As a hoop junky I love being a MAAC fan. It’s geographically the most dense league in D1, all but Niagara and Canisius are a day trip, and there’s a lot of alumni crossover so pretty good interest relatively speaking. We finally got the conf tourney out of Albany and cohost it in Atlantic City now with Rider. Politically the winds are changing in the league which is why Siena hates our guts (“we took their tournament”), and Iona is the perennial spoiler. There’s a love/hate triangle between Siena Iona and Monmouth that’s kinda funny to follow. The much-maligned commissioner is retiring next season and likely to be replaced by a much younger assistant commissioner who’s done a lot of the heavy lifting in recent years.

I have two reservations about the CAA:

1) For basketball, Northeastern Drexel Hofstra Towson and Delaware are close enough that they would matter to our fans. Charleston Elon W&M and Wilmington are distant enough to create a little apathy. This may be a price worth paying to inject interest into our conference football schedule. So basketball would go from a high-interest, low-cost league to a better RPI league that’s probably a slight downgrade in regional interest. Football would go from a low-interest, high-cost league to a much better league with a lot higher interest, lower operating cost (travel) but potentially a higher initial investment (facility). Also lacrosse would be getting a gigantic upgrade, we’ve been nationally ranked in two of our seven seasons as an NCAA D1 program and would go from a one to two bid conference.

2) TV. I’ve never heard a positive thing about FloSports. Monmouth was one of the first (if not the first?) FCS/mid major school to have its own broadcast contract with ESPN to produce it’s own games. This program is actually part of the communications curriculum at the school which I don’t see the school giving up in order to satisfy a platform as ****ty as FloSports. I don’t know if this is something they can work out, have Monmouth retain their individual contract, or how that would work. My hope is that the CAA gets on board with ESPN and does ESPN+/3 like the rest of the mid major world. That’s probably the easiest fix of all but it’s a worthwhile reservation. In today’s landscape you can have all the interest in the world but if a random fan can’t find the games it’s a gigantic buzzkill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blue Waves Crest]

Schools need to be looking out for their best interests. That’s exactly what Texas and Oklahoma did. While the move to the SEC is not official yet, next year, both programs can sell the SEC angle in recruiting because the 2023 guys will be playing in the SEC by no later than their third year, if not earlier. Both OU and UT have lost recruits to SEC programs, and now joining the SEC, that’s less likely to happen, and it could have a negative impact on Ohio State’s recruiting efforts in Texas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get it. It’s just hypocritical as hell for the P5’s to do so much pearl clutching around conference/playoff access in the name of better football. The football doesn’t get better by shrinking the talent pool. They know this, they just can’t take the moral high ground if they’re straightforward about their intentions: which is to make money at the expense of the sport’s long term health. We’re seeing this in basketball right now too with coaches like Bob Huggins calling for high majors to have their own national championship


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DSUrocks07]

Winthrop doesn't play football.

I don't see the CAA expanding, but some regional choices would be, in order:

1. Fordham, FB only
2. Hampton
3. Holy Cross*
4. Lehigh/Lafayette as a pair*
5. Howard
6. Georgetown, FB only
7. Monmouth
8. CCSU
9. Robert Morris
10. Delaware St.

* Either of these changes ends Patriot League football by the league bylaws, which require five full time members playing the sport.


xlolxxlolxxlolx

I appreciate the sentiment but...

xlolxxlolxxlolx

[NY Crusader 2010]

I keep seeing talk that the CUSA and other schools on the losing end of this wave of realignment should go down to FCS. While competitively this might be good for those programs, consider that long term this would harm the sport. Every program that drops from FBS to FCS is taking 22 scholarships out of the D1 level. That’s not good. These so-called football purists in the P5 who want their own super league are actively eroding the sport for a buck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like the opposite could happen and CUSA could end up being a conference being 80% composed of FCS move-ups. So instead of the likes of UTEP, NMSU and La Tech having to drop to the WAC with their tail between their legs, you might see these schools forming the basis of a very low-end FBS league that would also include South Alabama and Florida International. And they could invite some combination of current FCS members from Tarleton, SFA, SHSU, Lamar, Abilene Chsristian (?), McNeese, Jacksonville State, Jackson State and Missouri State.

[PantherRob82]

I doubt we would move up to the FBS without SFA. That game means too much to both schools to give it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's probably what North Dakota thought when the Bison moved up.

[CockyGeek]

Troy didn't give a crap about JSU when they bolted for FBS and haven't even bothered to play us in decades. Just started treating South Alabama as their rival.

[Daytripper]

I doubt we would move up to the FBS without SFA. That game means too much to both schools to give it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The "Big Rivalry Game" didn't stop TAMU from bolting to the SEC and leaving UT behind. I think fans place more gravity on the rivalry games than administrations.

[caribbeanhen]

xlolxxlolxxlolx

I appreciate the sentiment but...

xlolxxlolxxlolx

Del st announced they were going FBS years ago, what happened?

[acbearkat]

The "Big Rivalry Game" didn't stop TAMU from bolting to the SEC and leaving UT behind. I think fans place more gravity on the rivalry games than administrations.

UT’s main rival is OU, not A&M. The Aggies wanted to get out of the shadow of the Longhorns, and guess what? It ultimately didn’t work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cocky]

Del st announced they were going FBS years ago, what happened?


Started playing DII level ball as a FCS team?

[aceinthehole]

Not sure why you keep saying the CAA doesn’t need another football member. Strategically, they should be working to add all sports members which would include football. They did so with Elon and were close to adding UAlbany for all sports.

Otherwise you have a basketball conference built with affiliates in football. That’s not nearly as solid.

The right move would be to add a member who will be an all sports member.

To be clear, I'm not saying the CAA won't or should not add a new member that also plays football. I am only saying that football should be a secondary consideration and that a candidate's basketball and overall sports program is more important.

Furthermore, Twitter rumors have already suggested the CAA has vetted Queens University, a private D-II school in Charlotte that does not play football. So this suggest to me that the CAA is looking to focus on the basketball side of the equation.

The hybrid dynamics of the CAA and its football league has worked well and we know that the CAA will continue to have members that don't sponsor the sport.

What I think this means is that the CAA will consider any and all schools that would makes the league more competitive and cohesive regardless of if they sponsor football.

"Northern" schools that sponsor football - Monmouth, Fordham, Albany, Stony Brook are logical targets. I also think the the CAA would consider non-football schools like Fairfield and Quinnipiac.

SoCon schools that sponsor football makes a ton of sense - Furman, Campbell, Mercer, or VMI. But why wouldn't the CAA also consider Winthrop or UNC-Greensboro?

Obviously, I do not think any NEC team would get a serious look, but just as an example, I would think the CAA would look at Mt. St. Mary's before Saint Francis because the Mountaineers basketball is more valuable than Red Flash football.

Personally, I think the CAA will first look south of D.C. and focus on adding the strongest basketball programs available that may or may not play football. But I'm not a CAA insider, and so I'm interested to hear what those "in the know" think the league is leaning.

[Daytripper]

UT’s main rival is OU, not A&M. The Aggies wanted to get out of the shadow of the Longhorns, and guess what? It ultimately didn’t work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now it is. That is my point. When TAMU bolted it was TAMU as the main rivalry. OU was "a" rival but not the rival.

[Sitting Bull]

To be clear, I'm not saying the CAA won't or should not add a new member that also plays football. I am only saying that football should be a secondary consideration and that a candidate's basketball and overall sports program is more important.

Furthermore, Twitter rumors have already suggested the CAA has vetted Queens University, a private D-II school in Charlotte that does not play football. So this suggest to me that the CAA is looking to focus on the basketball side of the equation.

The hybrid dynamics of the CAA and its football league has worked well and we know that the CAA will continue to have members that don't sponsor the sport.

What I think this means is that the CAA will consider any and all schools that would makes the league more competitive and cohesive regardless of if they sponsor football.

"Northern" schools that sponsor football - Monmouth, Fordham, Albany, Stony Brook are logical targets. I also think the the CAA would consider non-football schools like Fairfield and Quinnipiac.

SoCon schools that sponsor football makes a ton of sense - Furman, Campbell, Mercer, or VMI. But why wouldn't the CAA also consider Winthrop or UNC-Greensboro?

Obviously, I do not think any NEC team would get a serious look, but just as an example, I would think the CAA would look at Mt. St. Mary's before Saint Francis because the Mountaineers basketball is more valuable than Red Flash football.

Personally, I think the CAA will first look south of D.C. and focus on adding the strongest basketball programs available that may or may not play football. But I'm not a CAA insider, and so I'm interested to hear what those "in the know" think the league is leaning.

From inside the CAA, I would pursue an all sports member which includes football particularly since the team leaving is all sports. I believe that is what you will see. I just believe the all sports core of W&M, Delaware, Towson and Elon will almost require that from any new full member.

Not sure your rumor mill but you must think people on this board are idiots if you think D2 Queens in Charlotte is on anyones expansion list, particularly the CAA, unless they want to be an affiliate in some Title 1X requirement sport. That wouldn’t surprise me but it’s a little disingenuous to suggest as I think you are that somehow the CAA would consider replacing JMU with a D2 school. The CAA actually has a lot of such affiliates, even Penn State at one time for some secondary sport. Fairfield is one I know for men’s lacrosse.

There are a number of conferences and their members where the CAA could offer a step up and interest, from NEC, Patriot, Southern or Big South to pull in a full member. Will be interesting to see who as I do agree, JMUs spot needs to be replaced.

[DSUrocks07]

Del st announced they were going FBS years ago, what happened?Having the BOT fire both our President and AD who was pushing for the move, then spend a decade kissing the asses of the other members of the MEAC for "stepping out of our lane" by underfunding and decimated our programs and then now realizing that there is no such thing as loyalty amongst thieves with now they want to start talking again about making a conference move, 15 years too late.

That's why I laugh whenever I hear someone from the DSU Board talk about leadership and doing what's in the best interests of the school. Clearly not. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Nepotism at work.



Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[DSUrocks07]

Started playing DII level ball as a FCS team?And we aren't even good at that [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[NY Crusader 2010]

To be clear, I'm not saying the CAA won't or should not add a new member that also plays football. I am only saying that football should be a secondary consideration and that a candidate's basketball and overall sports program is more important.

Furthermore, Twitter rumors have already suggested the CAA has vetted Queens University, a private D-II school in Charlotte that does not play football. So this suggest to me that the CAA is looking to focus on the basketball side of the equation.

The hybrid dynamics of the CAA and its football league has worked well and we know that the CAA will continue to have members that don't sponsor the sport.

What I think this means is that the CAA will consider any and all schools that would makes the league more competitive and cohesive regardless of if they sponsor football.

"Northern" schools that sponsor football - Monmouth, Fordham, Albany, Stony Brook are logical targets. I also think the the CAA would consider non-football schools like Fairfield and Quinnipiac.

SoCon schools that sponsor football makes a ton of sense - Furman, Campbell, Mercer, or VMI. But why wouldn't the CAA also consider Winthrop or UNC-Greensboro?

Obviously, I do not think any NEC team would get a serious look, but just as an example, I would think the CAA would look at Mt. St. Mary's before Saint Francis because the Mountaineers basketball is more valuable than Red Flash football.

Personally, I think the CAA will first look south of D.C. and focus on adding the strongest basketball programs available that may or may not play football. But I'm not a CAA insider, and so I'm interested to hear what those "in the know" think the league is leaning.

You'd have a better chance of winning the lottery and getting zapped by lightning the same day than Queens University has of getting an invite to the CAA.

That being said, I believe you're absolutely correct that the CAA doesn't need a football affiliate as much as it needs quality all-sports members. You could argue that it would be preferable that a new addition sponsor football however that might not be a deal breaker.

[UNHWildcat18]

You'd have a better chance of winning the lottery and getting zapped by lightning the same day than Queens University has of getting an invite to the CAA.

That being said, I believe you're absolutely correct that the CAA doesn't need a football affiliate as much as it needs quality all-sports members. You could argue that it would be preferable that a new addition sponsor football however that might not be a deal breaker.

CAA is a one bid league with travel from Massachusetts to South Carolina. I think they might have trouble finding the solid full member they want.

[Reign of Terrier]

SoCon schools that sponsor football makes a ton of sense - Furman, Campbell, Mercer, or VMI. But why wouldn't the CAA also consider Winthrop or UNC-Greensboro?



UNCG prefers it's basketball program to make money and so wouldn't leave the socon.

Campbell is not in the Socon.

[Reign of Terrier]

You're right on the mark. As someone who's followed CAA sports (to include YanCon/A-10/CAA Football) for 25 years, I can tell you that the top expansion candidates will almost undoubtedly come out of the following group:

Furman -- may very well be the CAA's top target. Few remember but they were actually slated to join the CAA in 2001 alongside The Citadel and Davidson before Richmond's move to the A-10 resulted in a domino effect of those changes not happening. And ultimately the expansion pivoted north instead => Delaware, Drexel, Towson, Hofstra and Northeastern were added at that time.

Campbell -- up-and-coming sports school. Had they not moved up the latter to FBS so fast, Coastal probably would have been in the CAA by now. Campbell will be a great fit and one they won't have to worry will use the CAA as a stepping stone to the Sun Belt.

Winthrop -- CAA is still looking to regain the basketball clout lost when VCU, GMU and ODU departed a decade ago. This could make sense.

Monmouth -- again an up-and-coming school, attractive location, and proven track record of success and commitment in both basketball and football.

Fairfield -- rumors surfaced a few years back. Never a bad idea IMO to have a presence in the wealthiest state in the US per capita. And Fairfield bridges the geographical gap between Hofstra and Northeastern quite nicely. FU is also an affiliate member in lacrosse so they already have relationship with the league.

Worth considering => Stony Brook an Albany, at the time they joined as football affiliates, were supposedly a few years away from joining in all sports. Reason I heard at the time was that Albany was scheduled to host the America East basketball tournament in 2014 or 2015 and wanted to wait until after. Low and behold, it's been five years and nothing. Political pressure to keep the 3 SUNY schools together perhaps?

Dark horses: Kennessaw State, Mercer => there's precedent in the state of Georgia as Georgia State was a member from about 2005 - 2012. Their move to Sun Belt escalated quickly once they kicked off a football program which I think went something like 1-15 in 2 years of CAA ball.

I'm telling you guys, the socon right now is thick as thieves because of basketball. It's going to be really hard to pry away teams like Furman or Mercer to the CAA until the conference that tries to pry them away can prove the basketball and revenue opportunities are worth it, especially since costs are pretty low for travel in the socon, with most teams a bus ride away from each other.

Remember, at this level, football programs break even or lose money. Basketball is a revenue producer if you play in a good conference with a single team in that conference can win one (1) NCAA tournament game, the revenue is shared by everyone (to a degree). Between Wofford in 2019 and ETSU in 2020 (cut short by COVID unfortunately), and the conference each year having about 5 quality programs (or 5.5 given that UNCG just lost everything when their coach left for Cincinnati) between Wofford, Furman, ETSU, UTC, and UNCG, the conference is trending upwards.

Rumor (and again, it's just rumor) was that the ASun coveted UTC really hard, but the Mocs turned them down. Basketball probably played a big part in that decision. Now, are you going to tell me that Furman would make another decision by being pitched playing a conference where most teams are 700 miles+ away? I am extremely skeptical.

[Sitting Bull]

CAA is a one bid league with travel from Massachusetts to South Carolina. I think they might have trouble finding the solid full member they want.

I don’t think they will have a problem but I think your POV explains why UNH doesn’t get a lot of exposure outside Boston metro. Since you have all this coziness in New England, what are the attendance trends like for basketball up there? Has the A East ever put more than one team in the tourney? Any team ever get to the NIT without backing in? I don’t really understand the satisfaction unless you’re in charge of the athletic expense reports up there.

At one time I thought and hoped UNH might actually jump into an all sports spot. To me, UNH would be smarter to try and expand their brand a bit. It’s not like saving all that travel money is converting itself into championships. Sure worked for Northeastern.

[solohawks]

I assume the southern schools like CoC and UNCW are going to want a southern basketball school like UNCG. Since I highly doubt UNCG is coming from the more prestigious SoCon, Winthrop would make sense

If the new member has to play football, then Campbell would probably have a lot of support.

A compromise candidate could be non basketball UMBC. They are the one AEast school that would reduce travel costs by joining the CAA. They would also nicely replace the travel partner of Towson that JMU served.

If I were my decision I would add all 3 and go to divisions. Campbell would fill JMU's slot in CAA football and the other non football schools will allow divisions to be establishedm

North: Northeastern, Hofstra, Drexel, Delaware, Towson, UMBC

South: William and Mary, Elon, Campbell, UNCW, Winthrop, CoC

[aceinthehole]

I assume the southern schools like CoC and UNCW are going to want a southern basketball school like UNCG. Since I highly doubt UNCG is coming from the more prestigious SoCon, Winthrop would make sense

If the new member has to play football, then Campbell would probably have a lot of support.

A compromise candidate could be non basketball UMBC. They are the one AEast school that would reduce travel costs by joining the CAA. They would also nicely replace the travel partner of Towson that JMU served.

If I were my decision I would add all 3 and go to divisions. Campbell would fill JMU's slot in CAA football and the other non football schools will allow divisions to be establishedm

North: Northeastern, Hofstra, Drexel, Delaware, Towson, UMBC

South: William and Mary, Elon, Campbell, UNCW, Winthrop, CoC

That makes a lot of sense to me. I envision there will have to be some compromises such as this between the North/South and Football/Basketball dynamics within the CAA.

It also seems more likely the members will come from the Big South and America East, rather than the SoCon and MAAC.

[UNHWildcat18]

I don’t think they will have a problem but I think your POV explains why UNH doesn’t get a lot of exposure outside Boston metro. Since you have all this coziness in New England, what are the attendance trends like for basketball up there? Has the A East ever put more than one team in the tourney? Any team ever get to the NIT without backing in? I don’t really understand the satisfaction unless you’re in charge of the athletic expense reports up there.

At one time I thought and hoped UNH might actually jump into an all sports spot. To me, UNH would be smarter to try and expand their brand a bit. It’s not like saving all that travel money is converting itself into championships. Sure worked for Northeastern.

no one gives a crap about college basketball in New England. Not even BC basketball. New England is hockey country. Also northeastern is so out of conversation it’s not even funny. Unless it’s their hockey team no one cares if they make the dance through the one bid CAA conference or one bid AE conference. Hockey East is king here, FCS football is growing in popularity. I just don’t see a benefit for any AE team increasing expenses for a one bid league. UNH soccer is doing extremely well though so there is that. I’m just saying you will probably see the CAA go after the Campbell.

Whatever happens, as long as we still play each other in football. I’m happy

[Sader87]

Southern New England is college hoop country: PC, URI and UConn....college hockey is bigger in Greatah Boston and north of there.

[The Cats]

I think this is going to cause a large wave from CUSA taking potential FCS teams to the east coast FCS leagues shaking up. God I wish AE could take Towson, Delaware and Northeastern back... AE football then gets associates from URI(will never leave UNH/Maine/SBU/Albany) and Nova... Thats 8 teams... offer football to Richmond and William and Mary. That would be so much more stable than the CAA. Drexel and Hofstra can head to the MAAC. Elon back to Soconn with UNCGW and CofC.

One can dream but the CAA holding onto teams from Boston to South Carolina just isn't going to be sustainable if this wave trickles down any further.

The SoCon will NOT take back either Elon or CofC, they both burned that bridge when they left for the CAA. They made their own bed, they can now stay in it...

[BucBisonAtLarge]

If the CAA were to consider a football-only add, Youngstown State should jump at such an opportunity. The MVFC has expanded so far west- the entire CAA is closer than almost all of their current league-mates. The Penguins seem to be otherwise well-served by their current Horizon League affiliation.

[UNHWildcat18]

Southern New England is college hoop country: PC, URI and UConn....college hockey is bigger in Greatah Boston and north of there.

Alright I'll give you that, those teams have made it further in the dance. UCONN is the only real standout though.

[dgtw]

If Sam Houston and Tarleton do bolt to CUSA, that leaves the WAC with four members that sponsor football, not counting UTRGV. The ASUN will have six for football in 2022 so those three are gone. What will they do then?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cocky]

If Sam Houston and Tarleton do bolt to CUSA, that leaves the WAC with four members that sponsor football, not counting UTRGV. The ASUN will have six for football in 2022 so those three are gone. What will they do then?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Go back to the Southland and OVC

[acbearkat]

If Sam Houston and Tarleton do bolt to CUSA, that leaves the WAC with four members that sponsor football, not counting UTRGV. The ASUN will have six for football in 2022 so those three are gone. What will they do then?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tarleton is moving up, no if, ands or buts about it. The Texas A&M University system wants that. I don’t think Sam Houston will at this point. I believe the WAC is moving up to whatever the FBS is in the next ten to fifteen years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ST_Lawson]

If the CAA were to consider a football-only add, Youngstown State should jump at such an opportunity. The MVFC has expanded so far west- the entire CAA is closer than almost all of their current league-mates. The Penguins seem to be otherwise well-served by their current Horizon League affiliation.

This is reasonable, especially if the MVC/MVFC ends up adding Murray State in the near future. I have nothing against YSU personally, but they're way outside the conference footprint...like 6 1/2 hour drive from the nearest conference member, so essentially a plane ride for everyone to get there and the same for YSU getting anywhere in the conference. They're still a bit outside the CAA footprint, but much closer in general to most of them. Not that 1 hour is a huge difference, but they'd also all be in the same time zone, as opposed to having everyone else (except Indiana State) be in Central time, which would make traveling and logistics a little easier for them.

[katss07]

Tarleton is moving up, no if, ands or buts about it. The Texas A&M University system wants that. I don’t think Sam Houston will at this point. I believe the WAC is moving up to whatever the FBS is in the next ten to fifteen years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is a “when” about it though. Tarleton wants to move up, but when will it happen? They probably aren’t getting a CUSA invite, nor is Sam or McNeese. Will it be with the WAC within the next 10 years?

[PantherRob82]

There is a “when” about it though. Tarleton wants to move up, but when will it happen? They probably aren’t getting a CUSA invite, nor is Sam or McNeese. Will it be with the WAC within the next 10 years?

Who is going to get a Conference USA invite if not the teams that are being floated?

[katss07]

Who is going to get a Conference USA invite if not the teams that are being floated?
Nobody, CUSA won’t exist. WKU and MTSU are pushing for the MAC. CUSA will be down to three teams. It’ll die.

[PantherRob82]

Nobody, CUSA won’t exist. WKU and MTSU are pushing for the MAC. CUSA will be down to three teams. It’ll die.

I doubt people are going to let their paychecks go away.

[Sir William]

I doubt people are going to let their paychecks go away.
Haven’t you heard? Federal guv’ment will pay their bills. Let’s go, Brandon!

[katss07]

I doubt people are going to let their paychecks go away.
Well what exactly can they do if there are no schools remaining to keep it going?

[PantherRob82]

Well what exactly can they do if there are no schools remaining to keep it going?

Add schools.

[taper]

How about this scenario? Some combination of 6-7 Summit, MVC, and Big Sky teams jump as a group and become CUSA-North division. Remaining Summit merges with OVC. Big Sky probably survives as is. MVFC probably collapses, with football members becoming associate OVC.
I am 100% against NDSU jumping solo, but this would be a pretty good and stable core.

[katss07]

Add schools.
Which schools are looking to join a conference with no schools? If WKU and MTSU split the conference is done.

[Mocs123]

I wouldn't mind being in a conference with MTSU and WKU but UTEP, FIA, and LaTech are way out of the footprint the Mocs would be interested in. The Sun Belt and C-USA should have re-structured to get two more geographically sustainable conferences, but instead the SunBelt took the crème and left the rest of C-USA to rot. My guess is the C-USA Commissioner will be calling some FCS schools to see if they want to move up. JSU? KSU?

[PantherRob82]

I wouldn't mind being in a conference with MTSU and WKU but UTEP, FIA, and LaTech are way out of the footprint the Mocs would be interested in. The Sun Belt and C-USA should have re-structured to get two more geographically sustainable conferences, but instead the SunBelt took the crème and left the rest of C-USA to rot. My guess is the C-USA Commissioner will be calling some FCS schools to see if they want to move up. JSU? KSU?

Conference USA needs to add so many schools that they can create divisions based on who they add.

[EKUFAN]

Been awhile....surprising that EKU has been rarely mentioned in these "move up" discussions. Granted it is fans talking, and I don't know if there are any EKU fans left on here. For those of you who have never been to EKU or have not been there in awhile, things have changed a lot in the last 4-5 years. Lot of building going on, new dorms, classrooms and a fabulous student enter. Athletics has benefited too, Roy Kidd Stadium upgrades, the new baseball field (stadium) is really nice, as well as softball and soccer fields. Alumni Coliseum is getting a facelift I understand. Alumni is old but it is unlike most arenas you'll will see, personally I hope we keep it as long as it will stand, and keep upgrades as needed. Both RK stadium and the baseball got new turf this year. New lights at RKS. We have a progressive and active AD as well as president of the university. Make no mistake they are pushing for EKU and FBS at some point, now where it will be this time remains to be seen. Just my two cents, if WKU and MTSU stays in it would reunite us with two of our biggest and oldest rivals. However, WKU most likely will not want another KY team in the same conference with them. So that is a roadblock we probably can't overcome. On the other hand if MTSU and WKU leaves it's is not nearly as attractive to me PERSONALLY (just my opinion). GO BIG E!

[smilo]

Good luck EKUFan. I think your school makes far more sense than any other, and I've felt you should be a top call-up for years. Shame on WKU if they are scared of you. I think it's a good rivalry for all and is the basis for a stronger conference. The only argument I see from their perspective is desiring basketball strength (which makes SHSU, SFA and JSU slightly more appealing), but the local rivalry should not be dismissed!

I think it's really unfortunate that there is a possibility that these spots are wasted on Sam Houston, McNeese and Lamar, when there are other schools that makes more geographic sense and do not have the fallback option of creating a new conference. Let the WAC self-promote if they want to move up so badly when they are ready.

Can anyone explain why these schools are the most appealing to C-USA? LT doesn't want to play with ULM but will settle for McNeese over potential flagship or similar quality programs? New Mexico State/UTEP have to fly anywhere, but they need more Texas schools with few fans in an already saturated state of fans?

Sam Houston is obviously a great program, but they have an attendance that is half of my school's pathetic fanbase.
I keep hearing that Lamar has been ready to go FBS for a decade. Well, they've only been able to sniff anywhere close to the FCS Top 25/Playoffs once in the whole decade. Why are they so desperate to be the next Texas State (or worse!) and why does this appeal to an expanding conference?
SFA is simply average in every way except basketball prowess. They make some sense but there are much better options.

C-USA thought process is atrocious per the headlines we see. The two options are: 1) Raid the Valley if teams are interested in creating a serious FBS conference to mirror the Big 12 geography; or 2) Load up on Atlantic Sun teams with decent fanbases and serious football aspirations that limit WKU/MTSU/LT's travel obligations.

The only rationale for Option 3: Raid the WAC is basketball, which should not be a prioritized factor in conference realignment, good as WKU is and UTEP/MTSU hope to be. This is terrible for geography. The teams aren't ready and have an option down the road for when they are. C-USA will be the laughing stock of the FBS annually.

[EKUFAN]

Thanks smilo, I don't know if WKU is "afraid of us", they just don't want us taking away from any accolades they might receive in KY. All of KY colleges beside UK and UofL fight the "big brother syndrome" xbangx. Probably worse for us as we are only 20 miles south of Lexington and UK (right in the middle of the state). There is a lot of (good and bad ) history between EKU and WKU, and as far as I can tell, their take on reuniting with us is..."we left them behind, not interested." A shame, it was a natural rivalry and easy driving between the two schools, great for the fans (even as they deny it).
As far as basketball I would argue that EKU's basketball program is equal to or perhaps a bit stronger than JSU, I don't know about the other programs. EKU basketball is picked second in the new ASUN conference this year behind Liberty.
All conjecture at this point on how this will eventually play out.

[smilo]

Jacksonville State is #98 Torvik and #136 KenPom (vs. #143/218 for EKU) in the preseason, but let's see how the season plays out. It is closer than I thought! And I clearly overrated SFA/SHSU based on number of tournament appearances (and the Duke upset) when this was more a case of winning an atrocious conference consistently. EKU is also in line with them.

[EKUFAN]

Jacksonville State is #98 Torvik and #136 KenPom (vs. #143/218 for EKU) in the preseason, but let's see how the season plays out. It is closer than I thought! And I clearly overrated SFA/SHSU based on number of tournament appearances (and the Duke upset) when this was more a case of winning an atrocious conference consistently. EKU is also in line with them.

That’s surprising re: JSU. Maybe they know more than ASUN coaches? Our conferences finish last year was somewhat better than theirs (EKU 23-7, JSU 18-9, we won both games vs JSU). We lost our two star players to Auburn and Georgetown, maybe that had something to do with it (that ugly transfer portal again). But replaced them with what some think are good players. Maybe JSU did not lose any. Again, who knows how that plays out.

[tigonian02]

Need SHSU to stay FCS for a few more months. Georgia Southern may target KC Keeler.

[Cocky]

I wouldn't mind being in a conference with MTSU and WKU but UTEP, FIA, and LaTech are way out of the footprint the Mocs would be interested in. The Sun Belt and C-USA should have re-structured to get two more geographically sustainable conferences, but instead the SunBelt took the crème and left the rest of C-USA to rot. My guess is the C-USA Commissioner will be calling some FCS schools to see if they want to move up. JSU? KSU?

If JSU, KSU and EKU are added a trip to South FL, LA or TX every other year would not be terrible. Probably the best you can hope for if you ever have a desire for FBS. Then in 5-10 yrs everybody will move around conferences.

[Laker]

I don't think that they are ready for a move up but I did like the meme.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/248293040_10107561648951759_3222918897509395110_n. jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=wYq-ihZeSAsAX8iJ1ME&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=36e5a3ba21e81a927d98d572657d470d&oe=619B61F8

[Sitting Bull]

I don't think that they are ready for a move up but I did like the meme.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/248293040_10107561648951759_3222918897509395110_n. jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=wYq-ihZeSAsAX8iJ1ME&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=36e5a3ba21e81a927d98d572657d470d&oe=619B61F8

In reality, I don’t think the girls shown would be all that pretty.

[TheRevSFA]

Sam doesn't have the budget now to move. They would need huge help from donors and alumni. I mean, maybe moving up would cause their alumni to care about football?

[acbearkat]

Sam doesn't have the budget now to move. They would need huge help from donors and alumni. I mean, maybe moving up would cause their alumni to care about football?

And SFA’s care?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheRevSFA]

And SFA’s care?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. More so than Sam's..but at least your attendance has been better the past two games.

Also, SFA athletics had a budget cut but made the difference up in alumni donations...so yeah they care. I mean, ****, you couldn't get your current students to pass a referendum that would have helped your athletic department, so you're definitely building that future alumni support.

[Serpentor]

I don't think that they are ready for a move up but I did like the meme.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/248293040_10107561648951759_3222918897509395110_n. jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=wYq-ihZeSAsAX8iJ1ME&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=36e5a3ba21e81a927d98d572657d470d&oe=619B61F8

The girls come running for that Huntsvegas prestige!

[walliver]

I wouldn't mind being in a conference with MTSU and WKU but UTEP, FIA, and LaTech are way out of the footprint the Mocs would be interested in. The Sun Belt and C-USA should have re-structured to get two more geographically sustainable conferences, but instead the SunBelt took the crème and left the rest of C-USA to rot. My guess is the C-USA Commissioner will be calling some FCS schools to see if they want to move up. JSU? KSU?

It wasn't that long ago that the Sun Belt Commissioner basically called every FCS program in the South wanting to know if they had any interest in moving up. In fact, CCU went to the Belt because the CAA and SoCon wouldn't take them.

[BigBlueMU]

I’ve talked myself in and out of this several times. If I were the CAA I’d be looking to replace an all sports member in JMU with an all sports member too. If Monmouth had enough clout they could negotiate a football-only membership but I’m not sure if the bargaining power is there. We would need another addition to our football stadium that was just built in 2017 to be comparable to current CAA programs so it’s not like we can really make demands.

As a hoop junky I love being a MAAC fan. It’s geographically the most dense league in D1, all but Niagara and Canisius are a day trip, and there’s a lot of alumni crossover so pretty good interest relatively speaking. We finally got the conf tourney out of Albany and cohost it in Atlantic City now with Rider. Politically the winds are changing in the league which is why Siena hates our guts (“we took their tournament”), and Iona is the perennial spoiler. There’s a love/hate triangle between Siena Iona and Monmouth that’s kinda funny to follow. The much-maligned commissioner is retiring next season and likely to be replaced by a much younger assistant commissioner who’s done a lot of the heavy lifting in recent years.

I have two reservations about the CAA:

1) For basketball, Northeastern Drexel Hofstra Towson and Delaware are close enough that they would matter to our fans. Charleston Elon W&M and Wilmington are distant enough to create a little apathy. This may be a price worth paying to inject interest into our conference football schedule. So basketball would go from a high-interest, low-cost league to a better RPI league that’s probably a slight downgrade in regional interest. Football would go from a low-interest, high-cost league to a much better league with a lot higher interest, lower operating cost (travel) but potentially a higher initial investment (facility). Also lacrosse would be getting a gigantic upgrade, we’ve been nationally ranked in two of our seven seasons as an NCAA D1 program and would go from a one to two bid conference.

2) TV. I’ve never heard a positive thing about FloSports. Monmouth was one of the first (if not the first?) FCS/mid major school to have its own broadcast contract with ESPN to produce it’s own games. This program is actually part of the communications curriculum at the school which I don’t see the school giving up in order to satisfy a platform as ****ty as FloSports. I don’t know if this is something they can work out, have Monmouth retain their individual contract, or how that would work. My hope is that the CAA gets on board with ESPN and does ESPN+/3 like the rest of the mid major world. That’s probably the easiest fix of all but it’s a worthwhile reservation. In today’s landscape you can have all the interest in the world but if a random fan can’t find the games it’s a gigantic buzzkill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have talked myself out of supporting full CAA membership for exactly your points. I would prefer Monmouth for football only in CAA, but the only way I see that remotely happening is Albany or SB going full CAA. As I said before, I think we stay put until some new Northeast/East coast conference is formed out of realignment.

[DSUrocks07]

I would love a new FCS conference focused on the Northeast for Delaware State to join. Honestly I see the MEAC folding and SWAC scooping up a few more schools and in that Super SWAC aka "the black SEC" scenario, DSU is the odd man out along with UMES and possibly Morgan State as well. Coppin being non football leave them with more options. But a compact "I-95 conference" would be a workable concept.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[NY Crusader 2010]

It wasn't that long ago that the Sun Belt Commissioner basically called every FCS program in the South wanting to know if they had any interest in moving up. In fact, CCU went to the Belt because the CAA and SoCon wouldn't take them.

The very rapid emergence of App State, Georgia Southern and Georgia State really turned the tables for the Sun Belt. Wasn't that long ago that both the CAA and MVFC were both regularly more highly ranked conferences overall in DI. And for a while, there was almost an unwritten rule that if you succeeded in the Sun Belt, you got "promoted" to C-USA => see FAU, FIU, N. Texas, MTSU and Western Kentucky. And now most of those schools would beg to get let back in.

[Daytripper]

Yes. More so than Sam's..but at least your attendance has been better the past two games.

Also, SFA athletics had a budget cut but made the difference up in alumni donations...so yeah they care. I mean, ****, you couldn't get your current students to pass a referendum that would have helped your athletic department, so you're definitely building that future alumni support.

That was a poorly handled referendum, to say the least.

[TheRevSFA]

That was a poorly handled referendum, to say the least.

Yeah, they really didn't show the students the value of investing in athletics and how it helps with their degree strength and recognition....

[katss07]

That was a poorly handled referendum, to say the least.
Nah the students here are just morons.

[katss07]

Yes. More so than Sam's..but at least your attendance has been better the past two games.

Also, SFA athletics had a budget cut but made the difference up in alumni donations...so yeah they care. I mean, ****, you couldn't get your current students to pass a referendum that would have helped your athletic department, so you're definitely building that future alumni support.
No they don’t, stop it.

[WestCoastAggie]

I would love a new FCS conference focused on the Northeast for Delaware State to join. Honestly I see the MEAC folding and SWAC scooping up a few more schools and in that Super SWAC aka "the black SEC" scenario, DSU is the odd man out along with UMES and possibly Morgan State as well. Coppin being non football leave them with more options. But a compact "I-95 conference" would be a workable concept.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

NEC?

[SHSU90]

Yeah, they really didn't show the students the value of investing in athletics and how it helps with their degree strength and recognition....

They threw it in and thought because the Natty that students would just go for it.
Going to have to retry by talking with key student organizations

[DSUrocks07]

NEC?Outside of CCSU, all the member schools in the NEC are private. Ironically, Howard joining the NEC makes a lot of sense since they already have a bunch of sports in the conference as an affiliate.

DSU has always been more culturally focused on the cities in the northeast corridor (DC, Baltimore, Philly and New York), especially with their marketing, a public school FCS conference in the region would be a perfect fit.




Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[Blue Waves Crest]

I have talked myself out of supporting full CAA membership for exactly your points. I would prefer Monmouth for football only in CAA, but the only way I see that remotely happening is Albany or SB going full CAA. As I said before, I think we stay put until some new Northeast/East coast conference is formed out of realignment.

I think TV is the dealbreaker. If CAA doesn’t ditch FloSports this is a complete nonstarter, it would literally end an academic program. Not happening. Beyond that they can probably put temporary bleachers behind an endzone and on the far sideline to accommodate if necessary.

As far as the league itself goes I really think the bargaining power has shifted from Monmouth to the CAA. Before the ASUN announced it was adding football and EKU Central Arkansas and Jacksonville State announced they were joining the ASUN, that would’ve put those teams in the Big South through their old Big South/ASUN “alliance”. A league like that would be a lot easier for Monmouth to stay in and would almost certainly be a 2-3 bid league annually. Maybe under that scenario Monmouth could’ve leveraged a football-only invite from the CAA.

But without EKU UCA JSU, and with UNA and KSU also leaving with the ASUN, the league will be down to seven teams, two of which (RMU and Hampton) are relatively local. The CAA knows this and sees the increased desire for Monmouth to get to a local conference.

Honestly, if they can get TV figured out, I’d sacrifice interest in half the conference basketball schedule for a better quality basketball football and lax conference along with increased interest in 90% of our football conference schedule. I think both sides would be getting a lot of value out of that, CAA gets their full member to replace JMU, Monmouth finds a long term home for all its sports.

I’m curious about what you said tho. Take me through a hypothetical. I’m wondering how many teams would be former NEC rivals and how many teams would be in the current CAA anyway


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WestCoastAggie]

Outside of CCSU, all the member schools in the NEC are private. Ironically, Howard joining the NEC makes a lot of sense since they already have a bunch of sports in the conference as an affiliate.

DSU has always been more culturally focused on the cities in the northeast corridor (DC, Baltimore, Philly and New York), especially with their marketing, a public school FCS conference in the region would be a perfect fit.




Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

America East / Big South if the MEAC ever implodes? Or, How about the MEAC with Bowie State, UMES Football (I know, almost a non-starter), and a former D2 PWI?

[Sonic98]

I wonder which FCS programs C-USA would be interested in bringing up? Sam Houston makes a lot of sense. JacksonVille State and Central Arkanasas are in the regional footprint as well. Could Jackson State with all of the Prime Time publicity be a candidate? Delaware? And of course, Hooty will throw KSU's hat into the ring.

I can't see us moving to the FBS or even another FCS conference as the only HBCU. Certain rivalries need to be kept, and I would like to see a major improvement in basketball as well.

[Sonic98]

I would love a new FCS conference focused on the Northeast for Delaware State to join. Honestly I see the MEAC folding and SWAC scooping up a few more schools and in that Super SWAC aka "the black SEC" scenario, DSU is the odd man out along with UMES and possibly Morgan State as well. Coppin being non football leave them with more options. But a compact "I-95 conference" would be a workable concept.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

I honestly think we have enough teams in the SWAC, and I don't get all the discussion about merging with other conferences.

[Reign of Terrier]

So this is a hot take that almost certainly won't happen, so take this with a grain of salt...

but what if the dying CUSA (who I think will lose FIU, UTEP, and LT no matter what) basically brought up every MVFC team that could afford to make the institutional investment to football?

I mean, obviously, this won't happen, as some institutions just don't have the facilities or the funding to do it (Western Illinois and maybe Indiana State come to mind).

But I think the Dakota schools, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, and maybe Youngstown could form a nice 10 team league (with two divisions Dakotas+Iowa on one side, Eastern schools on the other). It would basically be the MVFC minus WIU and ISU-b, but with Middle Tennessee and WKU. Probably a better travel arrangement for everyone, these teams get to be FBS (they can't be worse than the MAC!), and MT/WKU gets a not-awful conference (of course, it used to be better) with a better travel arrangement. And this conference would be best positioned (other than the Sun Belt) to be successful over the next decade or so because of the sports-commitment, not the money commitment.

It's probably dumb and wouldn't work for lots of reasons, but that's my hot take.

Either way, I think the FCS is divided thoroughly right now between the haves and have nots, and I would only be mildly surprised if, in a decade, about 20 teams aren't at this subdivision.

[taper]

So this is a hot take that almost certainly won't happen, so take this with a grain of salt...

but what if the dying CUSA (who I think will lose FIU, UTEP, and LT no matter what) basically brought up every MVFC team that could afford to make the institutional investment to football?

I mean, obviously, this won't happen, as some institutions just don't have the facilities or the funding to do it (Western Illinois and maybe Indiana State come to mind).

But I think the Dakota schools, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, and maybe Youngstown could form a nice 10 team league (with two divisions Dakotas+Iowa on one side, Eastern schools on the other). It would basically be the MVFC minus WIU and ISU-b, but with Middle Tennessee and WKU. Probably a better travel arrangement for everyone, these teams get to be FBS (they can't be worse than the MAC!), and MT/WKU gets a not-awful conference (of course, it used to be better) with a better travel arrangement. And this conference would be best positioned (other than the Sun Belt) to be successful over the next decade or so because of the sports-commitment, not the money commitment.

It's probably dumb and wouldn't work for lots of reasons, but that's my hot take.

Either way, I think the FCS is divided thoroughly right now between the haves and have nots, and I would only be mildly surprised if, in a decade, about 20 teams aren't at this subdivision.
I've been thinking about this too. Really depends on if the NCAA enforces the 15k attendance rule. The only MVFC teams with a 15k+ stadium and even remotely the means to move up are the xDSUs, UNI, MSU, and YSU. I have doubts UNI would leave the MVC, and if YSU wanted to jump they'd probably pair with Marshall and join the MAC. If xDSUs want to jump they pretty much need Missouri St, both Montanas, and maybe Weber to go with. If the 15k rule is ignored there's more options.

[Reign of Terrier]

From what I can tell, the 15k rule is more of a guideline. Coastal almost certainly didn't achieve it when they were invited by the Sun Belt and supposedly lots of FBS programs don't achieve it either.

Marshall is going to the Sun Belt.

I'd like to hear Clenz's take on my take.

[atthewbon]

So this is a hot take that almost certainly won't happen, so take this with a grain of salt...

but what if the dying CUSA (who I think will lose FIU, UTEP, and LT no matter what) basically brought up every MVFC team that could afford to make the institutional investment to football?

I mean, obviously, this won't happen, as some institutions just don't have the facilities or the funding to do it (Western Illinois and maybe Indiana State come to mind).

But I think the Dakota schools, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, and maybe Youngstown could form a nice 10 team league (with two divisions Dakotas+Iowa on one side, Eastern schools on the other). It would basically be the MVFC minus WIU and ISU-b, but with Middle Tennessee and WKU. Probably a better travel arrangement for everyone, these teams get to be FBS (they can't be worse than the MAC!), and MT/WKU gets a not-awful conference (of course, it used to be better) with a better travel arrangement. And this conference would be best positioned (other than the Sun Belt) to be successful over the next decade or so because of the sports-commitment, not the money commitment.

It's probably dumb and wouldn't work for lots of reasons, but that's my hot take.

Either way, I think the FCS is divided thoroughly right now between the haves and have nots, and I would only be mildly surprised if, in a decade, about 20 teams aren't at this subdivision.

I mentioned something like this earlier in the thread but I didn't think about the MVFC teams joining up with WKU and Middle Tennessee. For reference I think something like this for the CUSA would be really interesting but I realize has no real chance of happening:

NORTH:
Montana
Montana st
South Dakota St
North Dakota st
South Dakota
North Dakota
Northern Iowa


SOUTH:
Sam Houston
Lamar
Missouri st
UTEP
New Mexico st
Stephen F Austin
Abilene Christian

I could still see D1 football split into 3 different tiers (P5, G5 and top FCS teams, and the rest of the FCS)

[DSUrocks07]

America East / Big South if the MEAC ever implodes? Or, How about the MEAC with Bowie State, UMES Football (I know, almost a non-starter), and a former D2 PWI?I lean more towards the AEast as I feel that the Big South is focused on a region we aren't marketing ourselves in.

In a MEAC implosion scenario, with no new FCS conference forming in the northeast region I see these moves happening.

Howard - NEC
Morgan State - NEC
Delaware State - NEC
SC State - SWAC
NC Central - Big South
UMES - Big South
Coppin State - Big South
Norfolk State - CAA

UMES football is as likely as Coppin football at this point. But I would love to see it.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[MR. CHICKEN]

I lean more towards the AEast as I feel that the Big South is focused on a region we aren't marketing ourselves in.

In a MEAC implosion scenario, with no new FCS conference forming in the northeast region I see these moves happening.

Howard - NEC
Morgan State - NEC
Delaware State - NEC
SC State - SWAC
NC Central - Big South
UMES - Big South
Coppin State - Big South
Norfolk State - CAA

UMES football is as likely as Coppin football at this point. But I would love to see it.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

.....? IS......WILL YER FANS BE HAPPY...TA HEAR NEC.....SHOW TUNES @ HALF.........YER NOT GETTIN' SHAGGY'S JAMS....UP DERE........BRAWK!

[DSUrocks07]

.....? IS......WILL YER FANS BE HAPPY...TA HEAR NEC.....SHOW TUNES @ HALF.........YER NOT GETTIN' SHAGGY'S JAMS....UP DERE........BRAWK!We don't have enough that show up for the games as is.

Ive always found it interesting that we market ourselves almost exclusive to the northeast corridor (to the point of having advertisements in Time Square) and yet almost never play our games in the region. Say what you will but football is the main advertising brand of a university, (men's basketball second, but of course that's the main brand for the non football schools)

Honestly, if anything, I would argue that having our band playing MORE often in the northeast during football halftimes would help with our drawing and recruiting power in the region.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[WestCoastAggie]

I can't see us moving to the FBS or even another FCS conference as the only HBCU. Certain rivalries need to be kept, and I would like to see a major improvement in basketball as well.

Honestly, I am shocked I haven't heard C-USA creeping around Jackson for a meeting with Thee.

[WestCoastAggie]

https://twitter.com/RTDjohnoconnor/status/1453018913357410315

[WestCoastAggie]

I lean more towards the AEast as I feel that the Big South is focused on a region we aren't marketing ourselves in.

In a MEAC implosion scenario, with no new FCS conference forming in the northeast region I see these moves happening.

Howard - NEC
Morgan State - NEC
Delaware State - NEC
SC State - SWAC
NC Central - Big South
UMES - Big South
Coppin State - Big South
Norfolk State - CAA

UMES football is as likely as Coppin football at this point. But I would love to see it.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

The Big South wouldn't take Coppin or UMES and if the CAA gets what they want, Norfolk State or Hampton won't be options. If the MEAC implodes, Coppin and UMES are going to the CIAA.

[Nor Eastern]

Which is more likely? UNCG moving to the northeastern focused CAA or UNCW moving to the southeastern SoCon? SoCon seems to have an opening for member that doesn't sponsor football. Would UNCW want to join their UNC brothers at Western and UNCG? With the SoCon's tournament being just 3 hours away in Asheville (from Greensboro) it seems like a risky move for UNCG. UNCG also leans hard on the fact that the SoCon is where UNC also used to be. CAA wouldn't be doing their due diligence without looking at UNCG, but it seems like a risk for the Spartans.

[DSUrocks07]

The Big South wouldn't take Coppin or UMES and if the CAA gets what they want, Norfolk State or Hampton won't be options. If the MEAC implodes, Coppin and UMES are going to the CIAA.Coppin would be more likely to go down to the CIAA than UMES, being a part of the UM system might be the deciding factor for Big South membership. UMES has been successful in their other Olympic sports, and regionally they make sense for the Big South.

I only included Coppin to the Big South because I doubt that the NEC would choose them over Morgan and they wouldn't take both of the Baltimore schools to partner up with Howard and DSU.

Hampton already being in the Big South removes them as an option to pick up Norfolk. W&M being in the CAA already is a hindrance as well but I think it would be slightly more likely that the CAA would try to consolidate with all sports memberships and replace Richmond as a hedge if they decide to go in a different direction with their football program.

Again, this is all under a MEAC collapses scenario, and with the "Great Reshuffle" that's going on across the country, it makes sense for a lot of FCS tier schools to reassess what regions make the most sense for them. Gone are the days where "we need to be in a conference that has a team from Texas or Florida in it for recruiting", or pushing for "markets", or "we need to stick together just because". Football drives the bus, but even then the costs associated with it may be too much for some schools without deep pocket donors to bear.

The CAA might pursue or "prefer" schools like Greensboro or Monmouth, but does the CAA make the most sense for those schools?

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[Mocs123]

I can't imagine UNCG being interested in the CAA nor the CAA interested in UNCG. There was some talk this summer about Chattanooga and ETSU being courted by the A-Sun, and if they had left, I'm sure WCU and UNCG as the last of the true public university's (though VMI and The Citadel are technically public) might have been interested in a move, I can't see either moving otherwise.

[DSUrocks07]

I'm sure that the old guard of the CAA schools and their fanbases would look at their options as "weakening the conference" but what options are there that strengthen the conference that doesn't involve overextending themselves even further?

Ironically, the wholesale move multiple AEast schools going to the CAA two decades ago might be on the table once again. Any university President and AD who hasn't been in contact with their regional contemporaries over the past six months are not doing their due diligence.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[WestCoastAggie]

Which is more likely? UNCG moving to the northeastern focused CAA or UNCW moving to the southeastern SoCon? SoCon seems to have an opening for member that doesn't sponsor football. Would UNCW want to join their UNC brothers at Western and UNCG? With the SoCon's tournament being just 3 hours away in Asheville (from Greensboro) it seems like a risky move for UNCG. UNCG also leans hard on the fact that the SoCon is where UNC also used to be. CAA wouldn't be doing their due diligence without looking at UNCG, but it seems like a risk for the Spartans.

They probably want UNCG to balance out the divisions.

I imagine the CAA South would be the following teams:

CoC
Elon
Towson
UNCG
UNCW
W&M

[DSUrocks07]

They probably want UNCG to balance out the divisions.

I imagine the CAA South would be the following teams:

CoC
Elon
Towson
UNCG
UNCW
W&MIn its current iteration, Richmond would be in the CAA South instead of Towson.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[Nor Eastern]

If I were a UNCG fan I'd be rather upset wit a move that takes away the second best mid-major conference basketball tourney. SoCon Tourney has posted sell outs several seasons in a row before the pandemic hit. The SoCon also gets a pretty solid media deal too. The SoCon has a multi-tier media deal that has 4 ESPN basketball games plus their tournament Semi-Finals and Finals. They also have 5 CBSSN basketball games a year plus 10 games on NextStar media (broadcast stations within the SoCon footprint: From the SoCon site about NextStar: "ECBD (Charleston), WGHP (Greensboro/High Point), WJHL (Johnson City), WWCW (Lynchburg/Roanoke) and WYCW (Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville). New for this season, WMYT in Charlotte, North Carolina, will carry the entire football package. Although not a Nexstar station, WMUB (Macon), Mercer University Broadcasting, will also air select contests."


Almost seems counter intuitive to drop that exposure for FloSports.

[WestCoastAggie]

In its current iteration, Richmond would be in the CAA South instead of Towson.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

Richmond's in the A-10 for Basketball.

[clenz]

Richmond's in the A-10 for Basketball.
Shhhhh

People don't realize the CAA that plays FCS football is a football only league, just like the MVFC and PFL.

That's a conversation that most here aren't going to be able to comprehend

[Sitting Bull]

In its current iteration, Richmond would be in the CAA South instead of Towson.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

Richmond is in only as a football affiliate

[DSUrocks07]

I know that. I'm saying that if the CAA is transitioning towards replacing JMU with a nonfootball all sports member then it doesn't make sense to go with a division set up for all sponsored sports and not football as well, which is the largest expense for all schools.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[DSUrocks07]

Shhhhh

People don't realize the CAA that plays FCS football is a football only league, just like the MVFC and PFL.

That's a conversation that most here aren't going to be able to comprehendBeing separate entities, wouldn't it make sense to work towards taking a step towards uniting the conference towards the same goals? But bringing in one of the affiliates football members to all sports full membership is hardly considered.

Otherwise you could argue that all the FCS football conferences are operating independently from their respective conferences for all other sports. Which in a way is true, that's why some sports that aren't sponsored are affiliate members of other conferences as well.

So none of this matters at all. [emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[Anthony215]

Jackson leaving the SWAC for FBS would be terrible and a unwise decision. While it would be great to see a HBCU win a College Football Championship unless they're getting an P5 invite (never ever would happen) it's just going to be moving up for a G5 invite where they'll at best make 3rd tier bowl games while losing key rivalary games as they'd be restricted to only 1 FCS game. Maybe they could sneak in a second FCS game but that's pushing it when you need 5 FBS wins in a season to be bowl eligible.

[DFW HOYA]

Jackson leaving the SWAC for FBS would be terrible and a unwise decision. While it would be great to see a HBCU win a College Football Championship unless they're getting an P5 invite (never ever would happen) it's just going to be moving up for a G5 invite where they'll at best make 3rd tier bowl games while losing key rivalary games as they'd be restricted to only 1 FCS game.

Why one? That's not an FBS rule.

[WestCoastAggie]

I know that. I'm saying that if the CAA is transitioning towards replacing JMU with a nonfootball all sports member then it doesn't make sense to go with a division set up for all sponsored sports and not football as well, which is the largest expense for all schools.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

That's where Monmouth would come in.

[DSUrocks07]

That's where Monmouth would come in.Which goes back to my original point, would leaving the MAAC for the CAA in all sports make the most sense for Monmouth and their long term goals as an institution?

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[DSUrocks07]

IMO there are enough public schools in the Northeast region that play football for a new all sports conference that sponsors FCS football to be created that controls travel costs and have the support and ability to be competitive on a national level.



Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[aceinthehole]

Which goes back to my original point, would leaving the MAAC for the CAA in all sports make the most sense for Monmouth and their long term goals as an institution?

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

It appears that the CAA is putting feelers out to Monmouth - but to be sure, the offer will be for all sports or nothing.

It is a great opportunity, but I don't know enough about Monmouth's strategic direction if that's what they really want. But without a doubt it will cost a lot more for the Hawks to compete in the CAA than the MAAC. So they may want to make the move and just can't afford it. They are significantly smaller than the rest of the CAA.

We will see ...

[clenz]

From what I can tell, the 15k rule is more of a guideline. Coastal almost certainly didn't achieve it when they were invited by the Sun Belt and supposedly lots of FBS programs don't achieve it either.

Marshall is going to the Sun Belt.

I'd like to hear Clenz's take on my take.
They 15k thing is a thing but only just anymore. No one seems to care. It seems to have gone the way of the point in "Whose Line is it Anyway?". Completely made up and no one cares.

It's been a few years but schools like FIU (maybe it was AU) played Michigan State in Detroit as the home team. They gave Michigan State a massive part of the cut but got to count it as a home game for attendance. Thus they had a game of 67k to put towards average attendance. It wasn't scheduled as a neutral site game. It was a home game for FIU (AU?). There is no NCAA rule against playing a home game in a specific, designated, stadium.

I think everyone realized how many schools would be impacted by the rule actually being enforced and it was clear how much everyone was lying about numbers so it seems to have just fallen along the same lines of "In Iowa it's illegal for a man with a mustache to kiss a woman in public" or "In Iowa a one-armed piano player must perform for free" or "In Cedar Rapids, Iowa it is illegal to read a person's palm within city limit"....there are far too many "psychics" in the metro for my liking. In Ottumwa, Iowa it is illegal for a man to wink at a woman he does not know. In another town it's illegal for a horse to eat a fire hydrant.


Those are all just as enforceable as the 15k rule at this point.

[Professor]

CAA has put out feelers to Monmouth and Howard

A&T has said it's not interested

https://hbcugameday.com/2021/10/26/could-hbcus-be-in-play-for-new-look-caa/

[WestCoastAggie]

It appears that the CAA is putting feelers out to Monmouth - but to be sure, the offer will be for all sports or nothing.

It is a great opportunity, but I don't know enough about Monmouth's strategic direction if that's what they really want. But without a doubt it will cost a lot more for the Hawks to compete in the CAA than the MAAC. So they may want to make the move and just can't afford it. They are significantly smaller than the rest of the CAA.

We will see ...

CAA Basketball is a stronger conference than the MAAC. Success here could springboard Monmouth into the A-10 or similar league.

[Reign of Terrier]

https://twitter.com/CoachTO22/status/1453086855570903048?s=20

If this is true, the baseline travel expenses for Richmond and William & Mary to play football in the CAA just got way more expensive.

Come on back to the Southern Conference y'allxcoolx

[Sandlapper Spike]

The AD at CofC already shot down that rumor, at least from his school's perspective, according to a Charleston TV reporter:

https://twitter.com/KevinLive5/status/1453109280404557827

[PantherRob82]

Have y'all been to Jackson State? xcoffeex

They're not going FBS.

[aceinthehole]

CAA Basketball is a stronger conference than the MAAC. Success here could springboard Monmouth into the A-10 or similar league.

In general, I think this would be a good move for Monmouth.

The MAAC is a very good basketball league and travel is easy, but most members are small, Catholic colleges. MU's only institutional peer in the league currently is Quinnipiac. Good basketball rivalries with Rider, Iona, and Siena - but they want no part of St. Pete's, Canisius, Niagara, Manhattan.

I'm sure they rather share affiliation with Hofstra, Drexel, NU, and UD.

But the local zoning won't let them expand football stadium and travel and ramping up schollys in other sports to be competitive with the CAA will be much more expensive for sure. They don't have a lot of students to srpead out the cost - they would be the smallest school in the CAA. This may come down to the budget numbers ...

[BucBisonAtLarge]

The Patriot League should reach out to Howard, if they're considering leaving the MEAC. They're squarely inside the footprint of the league's southern flank. And hey, they added golf this year.

[Sitting Bull]

The AD at CofC already shot down that rumor, at least from his school's perspective, according to a Charleston TV reporter:

https://twitter.com/KevinLive5/status/1453109280404557827

Sounds like Charleston is leading the charge to bring UNCG into the CAA. Furman also mentioned.

[Dave195]

https://richmond.com/sports/college/james-madison/caa-exploring-expansion-two-division-setup-that-would-reduce-travel-costs/article_4ee9823d-9db6-54eb-a34f-d152ab6de602.html

The CAA is looking at a North & South divisions to cut down on travel costs. Would potentially add Monmouth & Fairfield to the North and UNC Greensboro to the South

[WestCoastAggie]

https://richmond.com/sports/college/james-madison/caa-exploring-expansion-two-division-setup-that-would-reduce-travel-costs/article_4ee9823d-9db6-54eb-a34f-d152ab6de602.html

The CAA is looking at a North & South divisions to cut down on travel costs. Would potentially add Monmouth & Fairfield to the North and UNC Greensboro to the South

The Big South would need football members ASAP if that happens.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Patriot League should reach out to Howard, if they're considering leaving the MEAC. They're squarely inside the footprint of the league's southern flank. And hey, they added golf this year.

Howard would be a great add from a long overdue "new voice in the room" angle. However, I'm not sure its academic pedigree is "quite PL level"; USNWR National Ranking #124. While I believe Temple #103 and DePaul #127 are in the "PL realm of quality", I understand that does not translate to "PL Material".....

The PL needs one or two institutions to come in and shake things up a bit. The status quo has caused a cathartic "death spiral" for all involved....

[Professor]

The Big South would need football members ASAP if that happens.

If Monmouth left , it would be 6 football playing schools

[DFW HOYA]

Howard would be a great add from a long overdue "new voice in the room" angle. However, I'm not sure its academic pedigree is "quite PL level"; USNWR National Ranking #124. While I believe Temple #103 and DePaul #127 are in the "PL realm of quality", I understand that does not translate to "PL Material".....


Loyola is comparable to Howard in SAT ranges.

https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/Howard-University-SAT-scores-GPA

[Blue Waves Crest]

I'm sure that the old guard of the CAA schools and their fanbases would look at their options as "weakening the conference" but what options are there that strengthen the conference that doesn't involve overextending themselves even further?

Ironically, the wholesale move multiple AEast schools going to the CAA two decades ago might be on the table once again. Any university President and AD who hasn't been in contact with their regional contemporaries over the past six months are not doing their due diligence.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

I know exactly what you’re describing but never really understood this attitude. “I don’t want _______ playing in my conference!”, “we didn’t join the _____ to play ______!”, it’s so petty. When Monmouth was dominating MAAC basketball I was clamoring for the MAAC to add NJIT (around the time they were really bad) because they were spending more money on their facilities, opened a new arena, had the potential to start getting good, and added an in state rival to the schedule.

Maybe I’m in the minority but I want more local games I can drive to, and I wanna play schools where I know alumni/fans and can talk about the games. There’s few instances where the “association” claim makes sense, like the Big Ten adding Rutgers and Maryland, two massive public AAU research universities, to share in their Big Ten research initiatives. Absent something like that the whole status symbol thing is just stupid and shallow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Professor]

Missouri State is being discussed to Conf USA

https://www.news-leader.com/story/sports/college/msu/2021/10/26/conference-usa-missouri-state-football-basketball-possibility-realignment-from-mvc/8545166002/


also mentioned :
Sam Houston State
McNeese State
Tarleton State

[The Boogie Down]

The Patriot League should reach out to Howard, if they're considering leaving the MEAC. They're squarely inside the footprint of the league's southern flank. And hey, they added golf this year.

Nobody circles the wagons like the Buffalo,,, uhm, I mean the Bison!

[The Boogie Down]

Howard would be a great add from a long overdue "new voice in the room" angle. However, I'm not sure its academic pedigree is "quite PL level"; USNWR National Ranking #124. While I believe Temple #103 and DePaul #127 are in the "PL realm of quality", I understand that does not translate to "PL Material".....

The PL needs one or two institutions to come in and shake things up a bit. The status quo has caused a cathartic "death spiral" for all involved....

On another thread I asked why the MEAC is imploding to begin with and, despite some knowledgeable responses, I still don't have a clear answer. Seems like several institutions left due to financial setbacks that forced cuts in transportation. That's fine, but those schools are gone. So why is the rest of what's now a mostly Maryland-Virginia-North Carolina region conference still breaking apart? Again, I still don't have a clear answer and I hope the MEAC can stay together. But,,, if they can't,,, then I'd love seeing Howard in the PL!

Howard does offer fresh blood and does give the rest of the conference a much needed jolt. Even as "only" the 124th ranked school according to USNWR, Howard also offers, arguably, the most impressive list of alums and faculty than all other PL members. Again, arguably. Their endowment is slightly higher than American and much higher than Loyola-Md, and unlike say Fordham back in the 1990s, I think joining the PL would only elevate (noticeably at that) Howard's profile. Nothing against my alma mater but it's safe to say Fordham will always be a secondary choice amongst Catholic universities. Moving to the PL didn't suddenly place Fordham in Notre Dame & Georgetown's rarified academic air, but moving to the PL can secure Howard's place as the top HBCU. A win-win for the school and the league.

I do wish Howard had a stronger football program but then again, Fordham wasn't much before joining and, for football at least, staying for these past 30+ years. So, for the PL standards at least, adding a Howard would be a "game-changer." Conversely though, not having any game-changer at all during this latest round of realignment only makes me wonder if it's just time to break it all apart.

[WestCoastAggie]

The Patriot League should reach out to Howard, if they're considering leaving the MEAC. They're squarely inside the footprint of the league's southern flank. And hey, they added golf this year.

I've said this for years now.

[Professor]

On another thread I asked why the MEAC is imploding to begin with and, despite some knowledgeable responses, I still don't have a clear answer. Seems like several institutions left due to financial setbacks that forced cuts in transportation. That's fine, but those schools are gone. So why is the rest of what's now a mostly Maryland-Virginia-North Carolina region conference still breaking apart? Again, I still don't have a clear answer and I hope the MEAC can stay together. But,,, if they can't,,, then I'd love seeing Howard in the PL!

Howard does offer fresh blood and does give the rest of the conference a much needed jolt. Even as "only" the 124th ranked school according to USNWR, Howard also offers, arguably, the most impressive list of alums and faculty than all other PL members. Again, arguably. Their endowment is slightly higher than American and much higher than Loyola-Md, and unlike say Fordham back in the 1990s, I think joining the PL would only elevate (noticeably at that) Howard's profile. Nothing against my alma mater but it's safe to say Fordham will always be a secondary choice amongst Catholic universities. Moving to the PL didn't suddenly place Fordham in Notre Dame & Georgetown's rarified academic air, but moving to the PL can secure Howard's place as the top HBCU. A win-win for the school and the league.

I do wish Howard had a stronger football program but then again, Fordham wasn't much before joining and, for football at least, staying for these past 30+ years. So, for the PL standards at least, adding a Howard would be a "game-changer." Conversely though, not having any game-changer at all during this latest round of realignment only makes me wonder if it's just time to break it all apart.

I don't think the MEAC is going anywhere. The SWAC has raised the bar and i feel like the MEAC feels like it's behind now. And schools in the conference are working on back up plans just in case. Because no one wants to be caught by surprise again

[Mocs123]

I've got a couple questions about the realignment regarding the OVC, SL, WAC and ASUN for those of you who have followed it closely. Which conference will get playoff autobids now? I could be mistaken, but I think a conference must have a minimum 6 teams and it looks like the ASUN has only 5. And what's with No. Alabama? They are still listed as football participants for both ASUN and BigSouth. I'm fighting cynicism, but it just looks like a tactic to squeeze out 2 more autobids for the same group of FCS teams. 5 or 6 team "conferences" are ridiculous. more than 10 might be too many. Nine teams might be optimal, that way teams play 8 conference games and play every conference mate every season.

The A-Sun and WAC have a scheduling agreement this year and have 1 autobid between the two conferences. I think they are listed as AQ7.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I'd be all for adding Howard. If PL expands, it needs to be an all-sports member with football. But I'm kind of done holding my breath. Patriot League is the least cutting edge sports conference in Division I. Any moves we make are reactionary.

[crusader11]

Howard would be a great add from a long overdue "new voice in the room" angle. However, I'm not sure its academic pedigree is "quite PL level"; USNWR National Ranking #124. While I believe Temple #103 and DePaul #127 are in the "PL realm of quality", I understand that does not translate to "PL Material".....

The PL needs one or two institutions to come in and shake things up a bit. The status quo has caused a cathartic "death spiral" for all involved....

Think this was the complain / objection to American joining, but their academic competitiveness has gotten much stronger in the 20 or so years they’ve been in the league.

[walliver]

Which is more likely? UNCG moving to the northeastern focused CAA or UNCW moving to the southeastern SoCon? SoCon seems to have an opening for member that doesn't sponsor football. Would UNCW want to join their UNC brothers at Western and UNCG? With the SoCon's tournament being just 3 hours away in Asheville (from Greensboro) it seems like a risky move for UNCG. UNCG also leans hard on the fact that the SoCon is where UNC also used to be. CAA wouldn't be doing their due diligence without looking at UNCG, but it seems like a risk for the Spartans.

The SoCon tried the basketball expansion trick once, bringing in CofC and UNCG to join Davidson as non-football members, it really didn't work out. When CofC and Davidson left, UNCG got to stay, but everyone else is all sports. 9 football and 10 men's basketball team makes scheduling easy. Football gets 4 home and 4 away games, while an even number of basketball teams gives every team 2 conference games a week during January and February. I don't see the SoCon really wanting to add UNC-W. As for travel, Wilmington is really not close to anywhere, except the Atlantic Ocean.

I suspect if UNC-G leaves, they may not be replaced.

[kdinva]

The SoCon tried the basketball expansion trick once, bringing in CofC and UNCG to join Davidson as non-football members, it really didn't work out. When CofC and Davidson left, UNCG got to stay, but everyone else is all sports. 9 football and 10 men's basketball team makes scheduling easy. Football gets 4 home and 4 away games, while an even number of basketball teams gives every team 2 conference games a week during January and February. I don't see the SoCon really wanting to add UNC-W. As for travel, Wilmington is really not close to anywhere, except the Atlantic Ocean.

I suspect if UNC-G leaves, they may not be replaced.

agree on all points...

[Mocs123]

I agree the SoCon is just about right as it is. Eight conference football games, two OOC games, and a Money game. I had thought the SoCon might have gone after Belmont or Libscomb at one time if they wanted to add BB only members or Murray St after the OVC fallout, but it seems they're happy as is.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Howard would be a great add from a long overdue "new voice in the room" angle. However, I'm not sure its academic pedigree is "quite PL level"; USNWR National Ranking #124. While I believe Temple #103 and DePaul #127 are in the "PL realm of quality", I understand that does not translate to "PL Material".....

The PL needs one or two institutions to come in and shake things up a bit. The status quo has caused a cathartic "death spiral" for all involved....

It's this kind of "academic country club" mentality that makes the Patriot League the Patriot League. I'm sorry but William & Mary isn't walking through that door.

[DFW HOYA]

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2021/10/if-patriot-league-thought-bigger-this.html

[The Boogie Down]

It's this kind of "academic country club" mentality that makes the Patriot League the Patriot League. I'm sorry but William & Mary isn't walking through that door.

OTOH, if-IF W&M and HC ever decided to walk through the A-10 door, that would not only bring back some cool b-ball conference rivalries like W&M/Rich and, to a lesser extent 'Cross/Fordham or 'Cross/UMass, but it would also be enough to sponsor football.

Holy Cross
Rhode Island
Fordham
Duquesne
Richmond
William & Mary

Not to mention full-time A-10 members like Dayton and Davidson if either/both ever decided to add scholarships. Georgetown could be thrown in as an associate too if they went the scholarships route as well. Of course that would require some major philosophical changes from those three. But Villanova would instantly make for a perfect associate if they preferred the lineup above to what would be left of the CAA.

[crusader11]

Sadly, PL presidents wouldn't be on board.

To NY Cru's previous post, it's the academic elitism that will get in the way. Many of the PL schools would scoff at being in the same league as state schools such as Maine, UNH, URI in the AE.

I often think sports, specifically football, are a necessary evil for PL schools. The presidents and BOT know they need them, but they're not going out of their way to advance their programs.

[dgtw]

I may be opening a can of worms here, but why did the MEAC begin to fall apart while the SWAC has held it together and gained members?

I never perceived much difference in the two leagues. Both made up of HBCUs with seemingly loyal fan bases. But the MEAC has lost members to both the SWAC and a PWI conference and is barely hanging on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

Sadly, PL presidents wouldn't be on board.

To NY Cru's previous post, it's the academic elitism that will get in the way. Many of the PL schools would scoff at being in the same league as state schools such as Maine, UNH, URI in the AE.

Which ones?

[Laker]

I may be opening a can of worms here, but why did the MEAC begin to fall apart while the SWAC has held it together and gained members?

I never perceived much difference in the two leagues. Both made up of HBCUs with seemingly loyal fan bases. But the MEAC has lost members to both the SWAC and a PWI conference and is barely hanging on.

For one thing, all of the SWAC members play football. Tougher to fill your schedule when Coppin St and UMES don't play it. Also, until the Southland defections, the MEAC schools seemed to have more choices on conferences to join. Hampton and NCAT took advantage.

[crusader11]

Which ones?

My alma mater to start.

[DFW HOYA]

I may be opening a can of worms here, but why did the MEAC begin to fall apart while the SWAC has held it together and gained members?


By various online posts, the executive MEAC leadership was not popular in all corners of the conference. FWIW, a new commissioner was named this week.

[dgtw]

The SoCon having nine football members and one non-football makes for a good setup. You play a 4/4 football schedule and then you have an even number for basketball. That makes scheduling easier as nobody has to find an OOC game in February. Baseball works out with two schools not sponsoring the sport so you have an even number there.

UNCG leaving would drop them to five in men’s soccer, so they will need help there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DSUrocks07]

By various online posts, the executive MEAC leadership was not popular in all corners of the conference. FWIW, a new commissioner was named this week.And they basically promoted from within, so more of the same is to be expected.

Personally I fear that the MEAC execs are looking to tread water until they can convince other HBCU D2s to move up like Virginia State to replenish the ranks, especially before the current ESPN deal is up for renewal in the future.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Sadly, PL presidents wouldn't be on board.

To NY Cru's previous post, it's the academic elitism that will get in the way. Many of the PL schools would scoff at being in the same league as state schools such as Maine, UNH, URI in the AE.

I often think sports, specifically football, are a necessary evil for PL schools. The presidents and BOT know they need them, but they're not going out of their way to advance their programs.

Who made the overture, the PL or UNH (USNWR #136), a few years back (2013 or 2014) in regard to the Wildcats joining the PL? I feel like there were some legit legs to that story but for whatever reason the idea faded away rather quickly.

I'd love for the PL to add at least one respected "colonial state" public school to inject some new blood/ideas into the room. Honestly, given the trajectory of Delaware football the last 10 years, the Hens seem like a plausible candidate moving forward.....

[NY Crusader 2010]

Who made the overture, the PL or UNH (USNWR #136), a few years back (2013 or 2014) in regard to the Wildcats joining the PL? I feel like there were some legit legs to that story but for whatever reason the idea faded away rather quickly.

I'd love for the PL to add at least one respected "colonial state" public school to inject some new blood/ideas into the room. Honestly, given the trajectory of Delaware football the last 10 years, the Hens seem like a plausible candidate moving forward.....

I'm not sure if it was so much of an overture as it was a scenario that briefly looked like a necessary marriage of convenience. Not sure the exact year that this came up but sometime around 2011 or 2012. Consider the landscape in New England and Mid-Atlantic at the time:

1) Hofstra and Northeastern abruptly dropped football after the 2009 season.
2) URI had announced a scholarship reduction and a move into the Northeast Conference.
3) UMass played it's last season in the CAA in 2011 and was about to move up to FBS and the MAC.
4) Albany was still in the NEC and Stony Brook was in the Big South.

UNH and Maine were very close to being left on an island in northern New England and were about to have to decide whether to remain in a football conference where the closest opponents would be Villanova and Delaware, or move to the Patriot League alongside Holy Cross, Colgate and Fordham. It's very well possible that UNH and Maine would have just stayed in the CAA and dealt with the travel but there was talk at the time that the PL would be an option.

Low and behold, within a short period of time, URI decided to reverse course on its NEC decision and Albany and Stony Brook joined the CAA as football affiliates. Once these developments took place, the discussion was obviously dead.

[UNHWildcat18]

I don't think the CAA schools really want to mess with the PL, it would have been a cost saving move out of desperation. I don't think UNH wants to trade UD for a Bucknell team that draws tens of fans to their game.

[UNHWildcat18]

ODU to the Sunbelt

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/sun-belt-expansion-southern-miss-old-dominion-join-conference-with-marshall-fcs-power-expected-to-follow/

Marshall and JMU expected to follow. I've read on the JMU board that ODU fans laugh at and find JMU "beneath them" being FCS and that they aren't worthy of being FBS....... I can't wait to watch JMU curb stomp them in a year or two.

[Anthony215]

ODU to the Sunbelt

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/sun-belt-expansion-southern-miss-old-dominion-join-conference-with-marshall-fcs-power-expected-to-follow/

Marshall and JMU expected to follow. I've read on the JMU board that ODU fans laugh at and find JMU "beneath them" being FCS and that they aren't worthy of being FBS....... I can't wait to watch JMU curb stomp them in a year or two.

That's odd that ODU fans are trash talking JMU when JMU regularly beat ODU out for recruits even as a FCS program lol. It'll definitely be a heated rivalry between the two but I believe JMU has a larger fan base and their home games will be more intense than the ones in Norfolk. ODU better get their recruiting up to par by 2023 because JMU definitely will up the stakes. They already have had impressive classes only signing 10-12 players per year now they can offer 24=25 per year.

[aceinthehole]

Any word on what will actually happen to Little Rock and UT-Arlington, the two remaining non-football members of the Sun Belt?

Are they actively seeking a new conference or will the remaining Sun Belt members just vote them out?

I imagine UT-Arlington could find a logical home in the WAC, but how about Little Rock? Who wants them - maybe the OVC? Or do both schools just join C-USA?

[clenz]

They've already been booted out.

They were both, especially UTA, heavily linked with the MVC. Not just conjecture but there was a paper trail between the MVC and UTA admin. There was significant smoke there.

Then Belmont was added and Murray is heavily rumored to be not far behind. Though I have a feeling Murray is waiting longer because they fear the OVC pulling the "You're leaving you don't get the AQ" for any post season play and the MVFC has to give approval as well. We'll see how that plays out.

UTA and UALR best hope that CUSA grabs them for the sake of having numbers.

[aceinthehole]

They've already been booted out.

They were both, especially UTA, heavily linked with the MVC. Not just conjecture but there was a paper trail between the MVC and UTA admin. There was significant smoke there.

Then Belmont was added and Murray is heavily rumored to be not far behind. Though I have a feeling Murray is waiting longer because they fear the OVC pulling the "You're leaving you don't get the AQ" for any post season play and the MVFC has to give approval as well. We'll see how that plays out.

UTA and UALR best hope that CUSA grabs them for the sake of having numbers.

OK. I hadn't read that officially anywhere. Interesting ... obviously it puts both schools on the clock to find a new home, but by being "voted out" instead of resigning their membership, they probably don't have tp pay an exit fee, which save them some $$$.

I guess other options are also the Summit.

[HootyHoo]

Exciting times. It looks like C-USA is at the mercy of the WAC at this point. In my opinion, I don't see the benefit of an FCS school jumping onto a sinking ship. Especially since no one knows what the FBS playoff structure and revenue are going to look like. The WAC has already declared their intentions to eventually become an FBS conference. It makes sense for them to let C-USA fold and take their spot in the G5 in a few years.

[Dave195]

https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/monmouth-university/2021/10/28/monmouth-nj-athletics-caa-expansion-maac-big-south/8572218002/

[aceinthehole]

https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/monmouth-university/2021/10/28/monmouth-nj-athletics-caa-expansion-maac-big-south/8572218002/

If the offer comes from the CAA, I think Monmouth absolutely grabs it.

But the question right now is does the CAA look to Furman first, and what will they do?

If the CAA grabs a football member south of Towson, such as Furman (or Campbell), I don't think Monmouth gets an invite from the CAA. In that case, the CAA may still add a northern school without football, such as Fairfield, in addition to 2 southern schools like Furman/Campbell and UNCG.

[Mocs123]

I may be completely wrong, and I can see how Furman would be an attractive school to the CAA as they are strong in both FB and BB, I just don't see them leaving the SoCon.

Monmoth seems like it's right in the CAA footprint. The Big South still has Robert Morris though, which is an outlier like Monmoth.

If Monmoth were to leave, I wonder if some of the remaining OVC schools like TTU would want in the Big South?

[DFW HOYA]

I'd love for the PL to add at least one respected "colonial state" public school to inject some new blood/ideas into the room. Honestly, given the trajectory of Delaware football the last 10 years, the Hens seem like a plausible candidate moving forward.....

The PL has become a semi-toxic brand and schools that consider it risk a revolt. Ask William Cooper at Richmond.

[dgtw]

They've already been booted out.

They were both, especially UTA, heavily linked with the MVC. Not just conjecture but there was a paper trail between the MVC and UTA admin. There was significant smoke there.

Then Belmont was added and Murray is heavily rumored to be not far behind. Though I have a feeling Murray is waiting longer because they fear the OVC pulling the "You're leaving you don't get the AQ" for any post season play and the MVFC has to give approval as well. We'll see how that plays out.

UTA and UALR best hope that CUSA grabs them for the sake of having numbers.

Got a link showing where they are being kicked out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[walliver]

Furman has frequently come up in CAA rumors over the last 20 years. On several occasions, the Citadel was part of the rumor. With CofC already in the CAA, I doubt the Citadel is as attractive to them as it once was. FU might see the CAA as a good move for marketing reasons, exposing the school to more of the mid-atlantic student population, but it would mean leaving a conference in which Traveler's Rest is basically the geographic center, and moving to one in which it would be a geographic outlier. Travel expenses would be much higher in the CAA. The move worked for CofC because they weren't having to pay to transport a football team.

[FUBeAR]

Furman has frequently come up in CAA rumors over the last 20 years. On several occasions, the Citadel was part of the rumor. With CofC already in the CAA, I doubt the Citadel is as attractive to them as it once was. FU might see the CAA as a good move for marketing reasons, exposing the school to more of the mid-atlantic student population, but it would mean leaving a conference in which Traveler's Rest is basically the geographic center, and moving to one in which it would be a geographic outlier. Travel expenses would be much higher in the CAA. The move worked for CofC because they weren't having to pay to transport a football team.
FWIW..

The geographic center of the Football/Basketball SoCon is 1685 E Poinsett Street Extension, Greer, SC 29651. This address is 20 miles from Furman and 19 miles from Wofford.

The geographic center of the Football-only SoCon is 493 Belle Shoals Rd, Six Mile, SC 29682. This address is 23 miles from Furman & 53 miles from Wofford.

Also, FWIW, FUBeAR would have absolutely no interest in Furman leaving the SoCon for the CAA (or any other conference…or for leaving FCS). FUBeAR, along with numerous Alumni Athletes, have made this clear to Furman’s Athletics & University Administrations. Ultimately, such decisions are made by the BoT, the President, and the AD. If they choose to make such a move over the wishes of many, and FUBeAR would go so far to say, MOST Alumni Athletes (certainly Football Athletes), they will do so with a significant loss of support, financial and otherwise.

[Sir William]

I would see Richmond and/or W&M coming to the SoCon before Furman going to the CAA (although I don’t believe either scenario will likely happen).

More likely that SoCon would add Campbell or NC A&T. Would love to see the Aggies in the SoCon. Great school, great fan base, great athletic program,,,and let’s see…what else? Oh yeah, great band! A&T would be a great fit.

[aceinthehole]

Latest update has CAA potentially adding Hampton, Howard, Monmouth, and Fairfield to get to 14 for all sports and football.


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453775463231463426 (https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453775463231463426)

[Laker]

Latest update has CAA potentially adding Hampton, Howard, Monmouth, and Fairfield to get to 14 for all sports and football.


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453775463231463426 (https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453775463231463426)

I can understand Hampton, Howard and Monmouth but why Fairfield?

[aceinthehole]

I can understand Hampton, Howard and Monmouth but why Fairfield?

Simple - The CAA needs a Northern hoops-only school to balance divisions and pair up with Northeastern, Hofstra, and Drexel for travel.

Fairfield is a good option and adds a new market (Connecticut), but surprised we aren't hearing any interest in Quinnipiac - a bigger program in the area. UMBC wouldn't be a bad choice, but sits in Towson's front yard. Mt. St. Mary's is another good program, but is just way too small.

It is clear that the CAA is going to try to add at least 3 schools with some combination of North/South and Football/Basketball to get the approval from the different dynamics that currently exist within the league.

[Reign of Terrier]

FWIW..

The geographic center of the Football/Basketball SoCon is 1685 E Poinsett Street Extension, Greer, SC 29651. This address is 20 miles from Furman and 19 miles from Wofford.

The geographic center of the Football-only SoCon is 493 Belle Shoals Rd, Six Mile, SC 29682. This address is 23 miles from Furman & 53 miles from Wofford.

Also, FWIW, FUBeAR would have absolutely no interest in Furman leaving the SoCon for the CAA (or any other conference…or for leaving FCS). FUBeAR, along with numerous Alumni Athletes, have made this clear to Furman’s Athletics & University Administrations. Ultimately, such decisions are made by the BoT, the President, and the AD. If they choose to make such a move over the wishes of many, and FUBeAR would go so far to say, MOST Alumni Athletes (certainly Football Athletes), they will do so with a significant loss of support, financial and otherwise.


As I have ranted ad nauseum on this thread and others, it would really cost an arm and a leg to get anyone in the Socon to leave, but especially Wofford, Furman, or the Citadel.

The TV deal for the CAA between Flo Sports and "NBC sports washington" is pretty trash. The CAA's basketball conference isn't as good as the Socon's so the expected value and revenue isn't as good. So Furman leaving would mean giving up many opportunities for Furman grads to see their teams in person or even on TV (for an FCS conference that has a bunch of small schools, the socon TV deal is pretty solid).

For those reasons among others, I just don't see it happening. the CAA as a football conference without JMU is not on the same level as it used to be. The travel would be more expensive and far away. The TV deal would be less favorable and hard to negotiate relative to the Socon. the revenue opportunity in basketball, again, isn't the same.

Yeah, Richmond and William & Mary are academic peers to Furman. But so is Wofford, Mercer, and VMI. At this point, when people keep floating Furman to the CAA, they really have to say out loud why they think it would be a good fit. Obviously, I'm not a Furman fan. But I just don't see why they would. If anything, I think it's more likely that the Socon is a better fit for the southern CAA schools (especially if Elon, CofC try to leave, even though that's a dispelled rumor at this point) because the Socon offers more to those teams with basketball revenue, likely a little more favorable travel expenses (if only marginally so, I forget that Delaware is closer to Richmond than Spartanburg), and in a JMU-less CAA, a better football conference.

Obviously I'm a homer and talking out of my ass on the last part, but I don't see how I could be a wrong.

[dgtw]

Latest update has CAA potentially adding Hampton, Howard, Monmouth, and Fairfield to get to 14 for all sports and football.


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453775463231463426 (https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453775463231463426)

That kills football in the MEAC and the Big South in one press conference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WestCoastAggie]

That kills football in the MEAC and the Big South in one press conference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe. Maybe Not. Perhaps both conferences would form an alliance in football. However, MEAC Basketball would be in TROUBLE.

[WestCoastAggie]

I would see Richmond and/or W&M coming to the SoCon before Furman going to the CAA (although I don’t believe either scenario will likely happen).

More likely that SoCon would add Campbell or NC A&T. Would love to see the Aggies in the SoCon. Great school, great fan base, great athletic program,,,and let’s see…what else? Oh yeah, great band! A&T would be a great fit.

It would be a historic move, that's for sure. For now, however, A&T is committed to the Big South. Will that change if the CAA raids the Big South and MEAC? Who knows.

[dgtw]

Can you get an autobid in basketball with seven?

The football alliance would be a good idea. A seven member basketball league gives you a 12 game schedule. Lots of holes to fill unless you wanted to try triple round robin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WestCoastAggie]

I can understand Hampton, Howard and Monmouth but why Fairfield?

Probably to help balance out the Northern Division. Their endowment is also just as large and their academic profile is pretty high as the 3rd ranked regional university in the Northeast per US News.

[FUBeAR]

It would be a historic move, that's for sure. For now, however, A&T is committed to the Big South. Will that change if the CAA raids the Big South and MEAC? Who knows.
A 2nd Paladin who would strongly support having A&T in the SoCon!

Heck, if they’ve resolved their University financial issues and seem to be back on a sustainable track, FUBeAR would like to see the SoCon pick up SC State also. Not sure how the SoCon peeps a little further down I-26 might feel about that tho.

[WestCoastAggie]

A 2nd Paladin who would strongly support having A&T in the SoCon!

Heck, if they’ve resolved their University financial issues and seem to be back on a sustainable track, FUBeAR would like to see the SoCon pick up SC State also. Not sure how the SoCon peeps a little further down I-26 might feel about that tho.

Their enrollment needs to get back to where it was pre-2012 before their financials are fixed.

[aceinthehole]

That kills football in the MEAC and the Big South in one press conference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It very likey kills the MEAC, but not necessarily the Big South.

Delaware State and Morgan State go to the NEC.

Norfolk State, NC Central, and SC State to the Big South.

Coppin State and UMES hopes for an invite somewhere or are forced to explore D-II options.

[taper]

Can you get an autobid in basketball with seven?

The football alliance would be a good idea. A seven member basketball league gives you a 12 game schedule. Lots of holes to fill unless you wanted to try triple round robin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
7 gets you basketball, 6 for most other sports, 8 for FBS football. Not ideal to operate at the minimum.

[WestCoastAggie]

It very likey kills the MEAC, but not necessarily the Big South.

Delaware State and Morgan State go to the NEC.

Norfolk State, NC Central, and SC State to the Big South.

Coppin State and UMES hopes for an invite somewhere or are forced to explore D-II options.

SC State will be going back to the SIAC if the MEAC goes away.

[Reign of Terrier]

A 2nd Paladin who would strongly support having A&T in the SoCon!

Heck, if they’ve resolved their University financial issues and seem to be back on a sustainable track, FUBeAR would like to see the SoCon pick up SC State also. Not sure how the SoCon peeps a little further down I-26 might feel about that tho.


Their enrollment needs to get back to where it was pre-2012 before their financials are fixed.

If SC State wasn't in such poor shape as it is now, I would totally support them in the Socon. There's definitely a, shall I say, DEI angle for having an HBCU in the Socon when schools like Furman and Wofford are having their own little campus conversations about race.

But SC State, unfortunately, is in really bad shape, and it would not be a good idea to add them just because we could add them.


The rumors about CofC, W&M, Elon, and Richmond musing over the Socon have fired up on twitter again. I don't believe them quite yet because the rumors about the "southern CAA division" seem more credible at this point.

So, for the Socon, it looks like there's three, maybe 4 different scenarios for realignment:

1) (the most likely) UNCG to the CAA. No additions, no substractions. Everyone else fits in and likes the deal they have, I think

2) UNCG to the CAA, a bunch of other teams from the Big South (Howard, Hampton) go to the CAA, with Richmond and W&M etc staying. At this point, I think the Socon may go for Campbell, who will be looking for a football conference. They have solid albeit unaccomplished basketball program, they fit in academically, I think the Socon would go for them. It's possible, having lost a triangle-adjacent school, they may go for A&T as well, who would also lack a conference

3) UNCG to the CAA, and the rumors about Elon, Charleston, etc are true and go through. In that situation, I think it's possible that Campbell or even A&T gets an invite to the CAA

4) something else!

Honestly, all of these rumors i think come down to travel expenses. What's challenging to figure out is that fact that the CAA isn't as geographically distant as you'd think. Delaware and Towson are closer to Richmond than any socon school other than VMI, I think. I think the socon has more closer teams than the CAA does to those Virginia schools, so it's really about capping your travel costs more than anything.

[dgtw]

7 gets you basketball, 6 for most other sports, 8 for FBS football. Not ideal to operate at the minimum.

Don’t you have to sponsor two men’s team sports? They’d have to take the BS football schools as affiliates to be able to do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sandlapper Spike]

1) (the most likely) UNCG to the CAA. No additions, no substractions. Everyone else fits in and likes the deal they have, I think


The problem with this scenario, from the SoCon's perspective, is not football or men's basketball, but other sports. It would leave the league with seven baseball schools, six softball schools, seven women's basketball schools, and just five men's soccer schools (because Belmont, currently in the league for men's soccer, is joining the MVC for all sports).

That's too thin on several fronts (men's soccer being the immediate problem, obviously). I don't think the SoCon could stand pat if UNCG left. It would have to be more proactive.

[The Cats]

The problem with this scenario, from the SoCon's perspective, is not football or men's basketball, but other sports. It would leave the league with seven baseball schools, six softball schools, seven women's basketball schools, and just five men's soccer schools (because Belmont, currently in the league for men's soccer, is joining the MVC for all sports).

That's too thin on several fronts (men's soccer being the immediate problem, obviously). I don't think the SoCon could stand pat if UNCG left. It would have to be more proactive.

Is there really any real indication UNCG would move to the CAA? or is it just wishful thinking on the part of CAA fans?

[Reign of Terrier]

The problem with this scenario, from the SoCon's perspective, is not football or men's basketball, but other sports. It would leave the league with seven baseball schools, six softball schools, seven women's basketball schools, and just five men's soccer schools (because Belmont, currently in the league for men's soccer, is joining the MVC for all sports).

That's too thin on several fronts (men's soccer being the immediate problem, obviously). I don't think the SoCon could stand pat if UNCG left. It would have to be more proactive.

I didn't consider that. So I guess maybe scenario 2 is the most likely because once Hampton leaves the big south, the Big south is pretty much SOL in terms of autobids, I think

[Reign of Terrier]

Also, I think it's possible (if not entirely likely) that there's a tug of war going on behind the scenes between the Socon and CAA for Charleston/Richmond/W&M/Elon. Those travel expenses to the northeast are just crazy. The socon isn't super close either, but I'm pretty sure most teams are the equivalent distance of Albany (or so, and much worse if you're Charleston).

It would make sense why the Charleston AD denied it, probably as a negotiating tactic.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Is there really any real indication UNCG would move to the CAA? or is it just wishful thinking on the part of CAA fans?

I don't think it is solely wishful thinking (that article in The Richmond Times-Dispatch was obviously based on something), but I also am not sure what benefit moving to the CAA would really provide UNCG.

[Laker]

Just read on Twitter than CUSA is talking to New Mexico State, along with Liberty and UConn (football only)

Conference USA in negotiations with New Mexico State, Liberty, UConn: Source - The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/news/conference-usa-in-negotiations-with-new-mexico-state-liberty-uconn-source/aLlHui68hjCp/)

[Reign of Terrier]

I don't think it is solely wishful thinking (that article in The Richmond Times-Dispatch was obviously based on something), but I also am not sure what benefit moving to the CAA would really provide UNCG.

Yeah, I agree. I think they *need* UNCG to keep the CAA worth it for Charleston and Elon, but if they can't get UNCG, then they'll lose Charleston and Elon. If they lose Charleston and Elon, maybe adding Hampton and Howard sweetens the deal for them to stay, but most of the socon is a lot closer to them than the CAA.

According to the William and Mary fan blog, there's also a concern that an influx of basketball only schools in the CAA puts the football sponsoring ones at a financial disadvantage in basketball.

I think the most likely explanation is that there's a tug of war going on right now behind the scenes that'll probably be resolved publicly in the next few weeks.