2021 HERO Sports Pre-season FCS Poll

[kdinva]

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2021-preseason-top-25-bzbz/

25. Missouri State
T23. Sacramento State
T23. East Tennessee State
22. Murray State
21. Alcorn State
20. Chattanooga
19. North Carolina A&T
18. Austin Peay
17. Villanova
16. Eastern Washington
15. Jacksonville State
T13. VMI
T13. Southeastern Louisiana
12. Monmouth
11. Central Arkansas
10. North Dakota
9. Montana
T7. Weber State
T7. Montana State
6. Delaware
5. Southern Illinois
4. North Dakota State
3. South Dakota State
2. James Madison
1. Sam Houston
Received Votes (alphabetical order):
Alabama A&M, Florida A&M, Kennesaw State, Nicholls, Rhode Island

[skinny_uncle]

Pretty good, but I am not sure about JMU.

[Daytripper]

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2021-preseason-top-25-bzbz/

25. Missouri State
T23. Sacramento State
T23. East Tennessee State
22. Murray State
21. Alcorn State
20. Chattanooga
19. North Carolina A&T
18. Austin Peay
17. Villanova
16. Eastern Washington
15. Jacksonville State
T13. VMI
T13. Southeastern Louisiana
12. Monmouth
11. Central Arkansas
10. North Dakota
9. Montana
T7. Weber State
T7. Montana State
6. Delaware
5. Southern Illinois
4. North Dakota State
3. South Dakota State
2. James Madison
1. Sam Houston
Received Votes (alphabetical order):
Alabama A&M, Florida A&M, Kennesaw State, Nicholls, Rhode Island

I like seeing SLU getting some respect. They have a chance to make a deep playoff run if they stay healthy. I think Monmouth might be undervalued here. I guess the luster has faded for Nicholls and Kennesaw St.

[POD Knows]

Yea, no UNI either. :D

[Daytripper]

Yea, no UNI either. :D

Not even ORV. Surely that is an oversight?

[POD Knows]

Not even ORV. Surely that is an oversight?Yea, Interesting, I would have also thought that maybe Cal Davis gets a vote or two, McNeese?, a few other also maybe.

[caribbeanhen]

Sam Houston #1 as it should be

[Tribe4SF]

Not even ORV. Surely that is an oversight?

The poll consisted of two guys.

[clenz]

Nah it makes sense.


UNI clearly would finish bottom half of the SWAC,MEAC, Big South, SoCon, and would be lucky to be middle of the NEC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Daytripper]

The poll consisted of two guys.

Even so, not one single vote for UNI?

[clenz]

Even so, not one single vote for UNI?
UNI is a trash program. Always super overrated by everyone, even when not rated. Pure trash.

Just look how bad they were this past spring. Lost 6-7 All Americans they planned on having because of the spring season, lost their OC 30 hours before the first game of the season, were down 35ish players due to COVID sit outs or injuries (including the best LB in the conference), had 10 different OL make starts in the first two or three weeks of the season due to covid restrictions, lost the starting QB for 2 weeks during the season due to covid protocols, etc. and just look how **** they were. 3-4. Just embarrassing. Plus look how badly they got blown the **** out by trash programs in those 4 losses

Lost to pansy ass SDU by 4 and had the lead until the final 19 seconds. Imagine losing to a program like SDSU and having the lead with less than 20 seconds left. Only trash programs blow leads in the final 20 seconds of the game. We saw that from trash ass SDSU in the title game. Losing in such a fashion to SDSU proves UNI sucks. SDSU just let UNI feel good about themselves. I know SDSU averaged about 240 rushing per game on the season which is why their total of 115 vs UNI is proof that they weren't trying. Game should have been 70-0 to SDSU

Lost by 1 to SIU on the road. Imagine losing to SIU. What embarrassment. Even worse imagine leading the game for something like 48 minutes and then losing. It wasn't even ever competitive. SIU just let UNI feel good about themselves. We all know that the SIU offense is all world and put up like 500 yards on UNI....oh it was 240 total yards of offense for SIU? That just proves they weren't trying. They averaged damn near 200 yards per game rushing and had just 24 against UNI, but that is because they wanted UNI to feel good about themselves. Really that game could have been 49-0 to SIU if they wanted too.

Lost to conference co-champ Missouri State by 1 score playing a back up QB without the top 2 WR targets? I'm just thankful Bobby Petrino is a stand up guy and agreed to let UNI keep it close

To round it out the most embarassing loss for them all. A 3 point loss to NDSU.

Those 4 losses are undeniable proof UNI is ****ing **** and a thousand miles away from even being a top 75 program in the FCS. We are begging the D3 conference in Iowa to not find it embarrassing to allow UNI to drop D3. We don't want to hurt their reputation nationally as being a good conference.


There's a reason I haven't seen a single poll, or ballot, that has UNI anywhere near the top 35-40. You'd have to have a single digit IQ to put UNI anywhere in the top 100 of the FCS

[Professor]

UNI is a trash program. Always super overrated by everyone, even when not rated. Pure trash.

Just look how bad they were this past spring. Lost 6-7 All Americans they planned on having because of the spring season, lost their OC 30 hours before the first game of the season, were down 35ish players due to COVID sit outs or injuries (including the best LB in the conference), had 10 different OL make starts in the first two or three weeks of the season due to covid restrictions, lost the starting QB for 2 weeks during the season due to covid protocols, etc. and just look how **** they were. 3-4. Just embarrassing. Plus look how badly they got blown the **** out by trash programs in those 4 losses

Lost to pansy ass SDU by 4 and had the lead until the final 19 seconds. Imagine losing to a program like SDSU and having the lead with less than 20 seconds left. Only trash programs blow leads in the final 20 seconds of the game. We saw that from trash ass SDSU in the title game. Losing in such a fashion to SDSU proves UNI sucks. SDSU just let UNI feel good about themselves. I know SDSU averaged about 240 rushing per game on the season which is why their total of 115 vs UNI is proof that they weren't trying. Game should have been 70-0 to SDSU

Lost by 1 to SIU on the road. Imagine losing to SIU. What embarrassment. Even worse imagine leading the game for something like 48 minutes and then losing. It wasn't even ever competitive. SIU just let UNI feel good about themselves. We all know that the SIU offense is all world and put up like 500 yards on UNI....oh it was 240 total yards of offense for SIU? That just proves they weren't trying. They averaged damn near 200 yards per game rushing and had just 24 against UNI, but that is because they wanted UNI to feel good about themselves. Really that game could have been 49-0 to SIU if they wanted too.

Lost to conference co-champ Missouri State by 1 score playing a back up QB without the top 2 WR targets? I'm just thankful Bobby Petrino is a stand up guy and agreed to let UNI keep it close

To round it out the most embarassing loss for them all. A 3 point loss to NDSU.

Those 4 losses are undeniable proof UNI is ****ing **** and a thousand miles away from even being a top 75 program in the FCS. We are begging the D3 conference in Iowa to not find it embarrassing to allow UNI to drop D3. We don't want to hurt their reputation nationally as being a good conference.


There's a reason I haven't seen a single poll, or ballot, that has UNI anywhere near the top 35-40. You'd have to have a single digit IQ to put UNI anywhere in the top 100 of the FCS


Oh my

[Keeper]

Oh my

Sour-casm ??? is Clenz for real?

Looking forward to Aggies playing the tougher higher-profile schedule. btw.

[Keeper]

THE team missing from this poll would be Richmond in my opinion.

[ysubigred]

Yea, no UNI either. :DWatch out for Y-town.. Best two quarter team to ever play the game [emoji3060]

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[McNeese72]

UNI is a trash program. Always super overrated by everyone, even when not rated. Pure trash.

Just look how bad they were this past spring. Lost 6-7 All Americans they planned on having because of the spring season, lost their OC 30 hours before the first game of the season, were down 35ish players due to COVID sit outs or injuries (including the best LB in the conference), had 10 different OL make starts in the first two or three weeks of the season due to covid restrictions, lost the starting QB for 2 weeks during the season due to covid protocols, etc. and just look how **** they were. 3-4. Just embarrassing. Plus look how badly they got blown the **** out by trash programs in those 4 losses

Lost to pansy ass SDU by 4 and had the lead until the final 19 seconds. Imagine losing to a program like SDSU and having the lead with less than 20 seconds left. Only trash programs blow leads in the final 20 seconds of the game. We saw that from trash ass SDSU in the title game. Losing in such a fashion to SDSU proves UNI sucks. SDSU just let UNI feel good about themselves. I know SDSU averaged about 240 rushing per game on the season which is why their total of 115 vs UNI is proof that they weren't trying. Game should have been 70-0 to SDSU

Lost by 1 to SIU on the road. Imagine losing to SIU. What embarrassment. Even worse imagine leading the game for something like 48 minutes and then losing. It wasn't even ever competitive. SIU just let UNI feel good about themselves. We all know that the SIU offense is all world and put up like 500 yards on UNI....oh it was 240 total yards of offense for SIU? That just proves they weren't trying. They averaged damn near 200 yards per game rushing and had just 24 against UNI, but that is because they wanted UNI to feel good about themselves. Really that game could have been 49-0 to SIU if they wanted too.

Lost to conference co-champ Missouri State by 1 score playing a back up QB without the top 2 WR targets? I'm just thankful Bobby Petrino is a stand up guy and agreed to let UNI keep it close

To round it out the most embarassing loss for them all. A 3 point loss to NDSU.

Those 4 losses are undeniable proof UNI is ****ing **** and a thousand miles away from even being a top 75 program in the FCS. We are begging the D3 conference in Iowa to not find it embarrassing to allow UNI to drop D3. We don't want to hurt their reputation nationally as being a good conference.


There's a reason I haven't seen a single poll, or ballot, that has UNI anywhere near the top 35-40. You'd have to have a single digit IQ to put UNI anywhere in the top 100 of the FCS

My sarcasm meter just pegged. -)

Doc

[POD Knows]

Watch out for Y-town.. Best two quarter team to ever play the game [emoji3060]

Sent from my SM-G965U using TapatalkYea, YSU isn't half bad.

[dewey]

My sarcasm meter just pegged. -)

Doc

Yep. Ole Clenz just set the record for highest sarcasm reading ever on AGS.

Well done sir.

Dewey

[Milktruck74]

UNI is a trash program. Always super overrated by everyone, even when not rated. Pure trash.

Just look how bad they were this past spring. Lost 6-7 All Americans they planned on having because of the spring season, lost their OC 30 hours before the first game of the season, were down 35ish players due to COVID sit outs or injuries (including the best LB in the conference), had 10 different OL make starts in the first two or three weeks of the season due to covid restrictions, lost the starting QB for 2 weeks during the season due to covid protocols, etc. and just look how **** they were. 3-4. Just embarrassing. Plus look how badly they got blown the **** out by trash programs in those 4 losses

Lost to pansy ass SDU by 4 and had the lead until the final 19 seconds. Imagine losing to a program like SDSU and having the lead with less than 20 seconds left. Only trash programs blow leads in the final 20 seconds of the game. We saw that from trash ass SDSU in the title game. Losing in such a fashion to SDSU proves UNI sucks. SDSU just let UNI feel good about themselves. I know SDSU averaged about 240 rushing per game on the season which is why their total of 115 vs UNI is proof that they weren't trying. Game should have been 70-0 to SDSU

Lost by 1 to SIU on the road. Imagine losing to SIU. What embarrassment. Even worse imagine leading the game for something like 48 minutes and then losing. It wasn't even ever competitive. SIU just let UNI feel good about themselves. We all know that the SIU offense is all world and put up like 500 yards on UNI....oh it was 240 total yards of offense for SIU? That just proves they weren't trying. They averaged damn near 200 yards per game rushing and had just 24 against UNI, but that is because they wanted UNI to feel good about themselves. Really that game could have been 49-0 to SIU if they wanted too.

Lost to conference co-champ Missouri State by 1 score playing a back up QB without the top 2 WR targets? I'm just thankful Bobby Petrino is a stand up guy and agreed to let UNI keep it close

To round it out the most embarassing loss for them all. A 3 point loss to NDSU.

Those 4 losses are undeniable proof UNI is ****ing **** and a thousand miles away from even being a top 75 program in the FCS. We are begging the D3 conference in Iowa to not find it embarrassing to allow UNI to drop D3. We don't want to hurt their reputation nationally as being a good conference.


There's a reason I haven't seen a single poll, or ballot, that has UNI anywhere near the top 35-40. You'd have to have a single digit IQ to put UNI anywhere in the top 100 of the FCS

Whoever has their finger on Clenz nerve....please take it off!!!

[Milktruck74]

As usual the preseason polls are pure bovine scat. However, this year they are even more so. We have teams that have not played more than 4 games in the last 20+ months. We have others that have seen 15+ starters transfer. We still have another group that has scooped up P5/G5 transfers like a fat kid scooping up free chocolate bars at the candy store. How can we rank anyone? A legit method is to put the traditional top half of each conference into a hat and pull names....but that wont work, because....VMI....DAMN!!!! Let's revisit the whole poll thing in mid October.

[POD Knows]

Whoever has their finger on Clenz nerve....please take it off!!!The guy is a UNI fan, a Twins fan I think and a Vikings fan I think, that is a heavy burden to carry.

[Professor Chaos]

As usual the preseason polls are pure bovine scat. However, this year they are even more so. We have teams that have not played more than 4 games in the last 20+ months. We have others that have seen 15+ starters transfer. We still have another group that has scooped up P5/G5 transfers like a fat kid scooping up free chocolate bars at the candy store. How can we rank anyone? A legit method is to put the traditional top half of each conference into a hat and pull names....but that wont work, because....VMI....DAMN!!!! Let's revisit the whole poll thing in mid October.
Idk... I think preseason polls should be more clear this year than they normally would be since many teams are virtually unchanged from the spring. No having to account for losses to graduation and such. A lot more teams played this spring than didn't.

[JSUSoutherner]

JSU about 40 spots too high.

[BEAR]

Thought UCA would have been a little bit higher but again they haven't played since last fall.
Eleven returning starters next year and a great recruiting class last year should come into play this fall.
Can only move up!

What I want for this fall: For our offense to start BEFORE the end of the third quarter. xlolx

[Katfan]

JSU about 40 spots too high.
This is becoming predictable!

[clenz]

Whoever has their finger on Clenz nerve....please take it off!!!
If you genuinely believe UNI would be a 5th or 6th place SWAC team or a middle of the pack Big South/NEC team, at best, like the voters in the Hero poll I have some amazing ocean front property to sell you

[clenz]

Idk... I think preseason polls should be more clear this year than they normally would be since many teams are virtually unchanged from the spring. No having to account for losses to graduation and such. A lot more teams played this spring than didn't.
The number of teams that haven't played since 2019, or played an extreme truncated spring season, make it even harder.

Take a look at even just the Valley. There wasn't a single team that even played a full scheduled schedule. Hell only 30% of the conference played over 75% of their schedule and Indiana State didn't play at all.

UND fans are going to take this as a shot at them, and it isn't I'm just making points here: UND is top 5-10 in every poll/ballot I've seen. They lost 2 of their last 3 games by multiple scores and their only win outside of Grand Forks was against last place WIU. In 2019 they had just 1 win outside of Grand Forks - bottom of the Big Sky Cal Poly by 4. Hell, in their last 11 road games going back 3 years UND is 2-9 (wins over last place in the MVFC WIU and bottom of the Big Sky Cal Poly) with an average MOD of 17.3 points. Is a team that bad on the road really a top 5-10 team?

Sacramento State in at 23. They haven't played since their first playoff game in 2019, a game they lost at home. They had a hell of a QB on that roster who transferred to Wazzou. That QB missed like 2.5 games in 2019 and in those two and a half games Sac State was not good. They got skull ****ed by Weber State and needed an NAU collapse to not lose to a bottom level Big Sky team. Their QB is a MAAAASIVE question mark for them. They lost multiple OL from that team as well. Look at the defense and something like 7 of their top 10 tacklers are gone - and that's assuming there have been no other transfers.

Call it bias but I don't trust any SWAC/MEAC team over the vast majority of the "power" MVFC conferences, especially 4 or 5 from each of those conferences.

JSU we've seen year after year after year get tons of credit for ripping through the OVC only to find out they really aren't all that good.

I, in no way, would advocate for UNI to be a top 10 team, if that's what it seems like I'm doing. I'm saying that the fact UNI doesn't even get a single vote in any of them but we have people voting for 4 or 5 SWAC teams, multiple MEAC/NEC/Big South teams in their polls just doesn't sit quite right with me .


I think you're point about "teams played in the spring and are unchanged" makes it seem easier but it isn't. The spring was so ****ed up that I'm not sure you can draw much from the majority of teams out there. Between teams not playing more than a couple games, long breaks between games because of covid, players missing from sitting out or covid issues, etc. I think it makes it harder because there is no real true sample to draw from. There is an illusion of a sample but that's about it.

[Daytripper]

The number of teams that haven't played since 2019, or played an extreme truncated spring season, make it even harder.

Take a look at even just the Valley. There wasn't a single team that even played a full scheduled schedule. Hell only 30% of the conference played over 75% of their schedule and Indiana State didn't play at all.

UND fans are going to take this as a shot at them, and it isn't I'm just making points here: UND is top 5-10 in every poll/ballot I've seen. They lost 2 of their last 3 games by multiple scores and their only win outside of Grand Forks was against last place WIU. In 2019 they had just 1 win outside of Grand Forks - bottom of the Big Sky Cal Poly by 4. Hell, in their last 11 road games going back 3 years UND is 2-9 (wins over last place in the MVFC WIU and bottom of the Big Sky Cal Poly) with an average MOD of 17.3 points. Is a team that bad on the road really a top 5-10 team?

Sacramento State in at 23. They haven't played since their first playoff game in 2019, a game they lost at home. They had a hell of a QB on that roster who transferred to Wazzou. That QB missed like 2.5 games in 2019 and in those two and a half games Sac State was not good. They got skull ****ed by Weber State and needed an NAU collapse to not lose to a bottom level Big Sky team. Their QB is a MAAAASIVE question mark for them. They lost multiple OL from that team as well. Look at the defense and something like 7 of their top 10 tacklers are gone - and that's assuming there have been no other transfers.

Call it bias but I don't trust any SWAC/MEAC team over the vast majority of the "power" MVFC conferences, especially 4 or 5 from each of those conferences.

JSU we've seen year after year after year get tons of credit for ripping through the OVC only to find out they really aren't all that good.

I, in no way, would advocate for UNI to be a top 10 team, if that's what it seems like I'm doing. I'm saying that the fact UNI doesn't even get a single vote in any of them but we have people voting for 4 or 5 SWAC teams, multiple MEAC/NEC/Big South teams in their polls just doesn't sit quite right with me .


I think you're point about "teams played in the spring and are unchanged" makes it seem easier but it isn't. The spring was so ****ed up that I'm not sure you can draw much from the majority of teams out there. Between teams not playing more than a couple games, long breaks between games because of covid, players missing from sitting out or covid issues, etc. I think it makes it harder because there is no real true sample to draw from. There is an illusion of a sample but that's about it.

All fair points in my opinion.

[Libertine]

I think you're point about "teams played in the spring and are unchanged" makes it seem easier but it isn't. The spring was so ****ed up that I'm not sure you can draw much from the majority of teams out there. Between teams not playing more than a couple games, long breaks between games because of covid, players missing from sitting out or covid issues, etc. I think it makes it harder because there is no real true sample to draw from. There is an illusion of a sample but that's about it.

I completely agree. I think that some coaches also never took the spring season seriously and treated it like an extended spring practice. You saw some teams run completely different depth charts out there from one week to the next and I think that some of the teams that bailed on their schedule midway through were teams where the coaches had just decided that they'd seen enough for the fall.

It's tough most years to gauge Week 1 strengths and weaknesses and it's going to be even harder this year. If anyone is putting down $ on FCS football this year, you might want to wait until October.

[Professor Chaos]

We'll see I guess. I think the teams that were good in the spring will be good in the fall too. I'm sure there will be some teams that stunk in the spring come alive in the fall and some teams that looked pretty good in the spring will get exposed in the fall but I still think it'll be less churn than in a normal offseason. You can never have all that much confidence in preseason polls, I just think this year we've got a better baseline than in most years to get started with.

[WestCoastAggie]

Things will seemingly revert to the mean of the past 3 - 5 years for many teams with less teams than anticipated exceeding expectations. Those with quality DL, OL, and QB play will go far.

[F'N Hawks]

UNI is a trash program. Always super overrated by everyone, even when not rated. Pure trash.

Just look how bad they were this past spring. Lost 6-7 All Americans they planned on having because of the spring season, lost their OC 30 hours before the first game of the season, were down 35ish players due to COVID sit outs or injuries (including the best LB in the conference), had 10 different OL make starts in the first two or three weeks of the season due to covid restrictions, lost the starting QB for 2 weeks during the season due to covid protocols, etc. and just look how **** they were. 3-4. Just embarrassing. Plus look how badly they got blown the **** out by trash programs in those 4 losses

Lost to pansy ass SDU by 4 and had the lead until the final 19 seconds. Imagine losing to a program like SDSU and having the lead with less than 20 seconds left. Only trash programs blow leads in the final 20 seconds of the game. We saw that from trash ass SDSU in the title game. Losing in such a fashion to SDSU proves UNI sucks. SDSU just let UNI feel good about themselves. I know SDSU averaged about 240 rushing per game on the season which is why their total of 115 vs UNI is proof that they weren't trying. Game should have been 70-0 to SDSU

Lost by 1 to SIU on the road. Imagine losing to SIU. What embarrassment. Even worse imagine leading the game for something like 48 minutes and then losing. It wasn't even ever competitive. SIU just let UNI feel good about themselves. We all know that the SIU offense is all world and put up like 500 yards on UNI....oh it was 240 total yards of offense for SIU? That just proves they weren't trying. They averaged damn near 200 yards per game rushing and had just 24 against UNI, but that is because they wanted UNI to feel good about themselves. Really that game could have been 49-0 to SIU if they wanted too.

Lost to conference co-champ Missouri State by 1 score playing a back up QB without the top 2 WR targets? I'm just thankful Bobby Petrino is a stand up guy and agreed to let UNI keep it close

To round it out the most embarassing loss for them all. A 3 point loss to NDSU.

Those 4 losses are undeniable proof UNI is ****ing **** and a thousand miles away from even being a top 75 program in the FCS. We are begging the D3 conference in Iowa to not find it embarrassing to allow UNI to drop D3. We don't want to hurt their reputation nationally as being a good conference.


There's a reason I haven't seen a single poll, or ballot, that has UNI anywhere near the top 35-40. You'd have to have a single digit IQ to put UNI anywhere in the top 100 of the FCS

Yikesville.

[ysubigred]

Things will seemingly revert to the mean of the past 3 - 5 years for many teams with less teams than anticipated exceeding expectations. Those with quality DL, OL, and QB play will go far.

Fair assessment here ^ Sadly 2 of the 3 above are missing from my school :(

[SDFS]

UND fans are going to take this as a shot at them, and it isn't I'm just making points here: UND is top 5-10 in every poll/ballot I've seen. They lost 2 of their last 3 games by multiple scores and their only win outside of Grand Forks was against last place WIU. In 2019 they had just 1 win outside of Grand Forks - bottom of the Big Sky Cal Poly by 4. Hell, in their last 11 road games going back 3 years UND is 2-9 (wins over last place in the MVFC WIU and bottom of the Big Sky Cal Poly) with an average MOD of 17.3 points. Is a team that bad on the road really a top 5-10 team?


UND Fan and this no shot at all - it is a legit observation. On the UND message boards the poor performance on the road has been talked about in great detail. The coaches have talked about it also. Until UND gets that fixed.. they will be a low Top 20 team. Now, the last two teams they lost to on the road are pretty salty (JMU and NDSU) and not many teams walk out of those places with a win. But, UND has some road issues to address.

NOTE: UNI is a top 15 team in my opinion. If the QB play improves - UNI will be highly ranked by years end.

[Bisonator]

The guy is a UNI fan, a Twins fan I think and a Vikings fan I think, that is a heavy burden to carry.
The poor sap must end up in the fetal position every damn day. xlolx

[McNeese72]

Yea, Interesting, I would have also thought that maybe Cal Davis gets a vote or two, McNeese?, a few other also maybe.

McNeese is right where they should be. Not anywhere close in any of the rankings or polls. Even though we were short of personel at the end of the spring season, we vastly improved from the beginning to the end of the spring season. With the addition of some transfers and some quality high school recruits, we should be pretty decent in the fall. But I would rather the team have to earn its way into the polls as the season goes along if they are improved like I think they will be.

Not looking forward to the 12 PM home game kickoffs in the beginning of next season. It's going to be hot as hell. But, our hurricane destroyed lights won't be replaced for 2021 fall season.

Doc

[clenz]

UND Fan and this no shot at all - it is a legit observation. On the UND message boards the poor performance on the road has been talked about in great detail. The coaches have talked about it also. Until UND gets that fixed.. they will be a low Top 20 team. Now, the last two teams they lost to on the road are pretty salty (JMU and NDSU) and not many teams walk out of those places with a win. But, UND has some road issues to address.

NOTE: UNI is a top 15 team in my opinion. If the QB play improves - UNI will be highly ranked by years end.
Happy to hear it wasn't taken, at least by you, as me attacking UND. I think UND has some damn fine pieces, but the games away from home are pretty yikes for me in terms of seeing them as a top 5-10 type team.

To go with another MVFC team I see in every top 5-10: SIU. They gave up over 30 points per game last season. They were outscored for the year. Are we really ranking SIU because in the top 5 because they got a team with an even worse defense to come play them the last week of the season, snuck in as the last playoff team, and pulled an upset on Weber State? When was the last time a team gave up 30 points per game, 400 yards of offense per game, 5.5 yards per carry, over 6 yards per play, and got outscored on the season managed to be a consensus top 5-7 team? SIU is seen as this amazing offense, averaged 27 per game. UNI had two passing TD all spring and averaged 20.

We have said this about UNI for 10 years at this point, but a competent offense and this UNI team is a semi-final/title game type team. The defense is so stupidly good that it wouldn't even take much of an offense.

Over the last 4 seasons, which is 48 games, (and the trend going back further is the same but I didn't want to do that math) the UNI defense has faced 1,771 rushing attempts and given up 3.0 yards per carry, just a hair over 110 ypg, and just 41 touchdowns. In the passing game the defense has as damn near as many INT as TD at 61 and 67 respectively, given up just 205 yards passing per game at 6 yards per attempt. Also only given up something like 18 points per game.

Last season the defense gave up
24 to SDSU - averaged 30+ per game in all other games (was 17 until the final 19 seconds...damn)
17 to SIU - averaged over 28 in all other games
13 to MSU - averaged 21 per game against the FCS in the fall and spring combined
23 to NDSU - averaged 28 per game in all other games

They've done all that while being on the field 36 minutes per game as well. Hell, the JMU game in the quarters in 2019 they were on the field for damn near 50 minutes, with an offense that didn't cross midfield until the final 2 minutes of the game and gave JMU the ball inside the UNI 40 multiple times (inside the 10 or 15 a couple times too IIRC) and the score was 10-0 until the final minute of the game when UNI turned the ball over on the 1 trying to do some late game **** and JMU scored on a 1 yard run play.

Who knows what kind of offense UNI will get, but the offense they have now would be good enough to rip through the SWAC, MEAC, OVC, Big South, etc. with the defense they have. It's why I hate ranking on records or basing rankings on records in the preseason. "UNI sucks, they went 7-4. Can't be as good as *insert OVC/Big South/SWAC team because they went 9-2". Yeah and UNI went 6-2 in MVFC play going against 6 top 10-15 teams in the country AND 1-1 OOC while being known to play the one of the hardest OOCs year after year. Big South team over there played an NAIA team, the rest of the Big South, and an NEC team during the regular season. They must be better"

I'll never forget this is the same kind of **** that got me one of my best friends. It was the 2015 playoffs and the same **** was being said about UNI and how EIU was going to walk into the dome and beat UNI beacuse record was better and whatever other garbage. UNI **** stomped EIU something like 53-13. To that posters credit he came back, ate the crow, and has since legit become one of my best friends. We talk every day, damn near all day. Same story with SFA and UNI in 2014 and UNI beat SFA something like 45-10. Then Monmouth in 2017 came to the dome with a 9-2 record compared to UNIs 7-4 record. Heard all about how UNI was going to get **** on and UNI led 33-0 at half, and 46-0 in the third with a number of starters pulled at half and the entire 1s and pulled before the halway mark of the third quarter

I, in zero way, would argue for UNI to be in anyone's top 10. However, to see them not even in voters top 35-40 and behind half the SWAC, Big South, OVC, etc. is just mind blowing to me and the only justification anyone will give, if they are willing to, is UNI went 3-4 in the spring but Sac State went 9-4 two years ago and I know they lost their All American level QB but I'm going to say that a program known for being pretty bad outside of that one year is going to magically repeat that so they have to be a top 25 team.

[caribbeanhen]

The number of teams that haven't played since 2019, or played an extreme truncated spring season, make it even harder.

Take a look at even just the Valley. There wasn't a single team that even played a full scheduled schedule. Hell only 30% of the conference played over 75% of their schedule and Indiana State didn't play at all.

UND fans are going to take this as a shot at them, and it isn't I'm just making points here: UND is top 5-10 in every poll/ballot I've seen. They lost 2 of their last 3 games by multiple scores and their only win outside of Grand Forks was against last place WIU. In 2019 they had just 1 win outside of Grand Forks - bottom of the Big Sky Cal Poly by 4. Hell, in their last 11 road games going back 3 years UND is 2-9 (wins over last place in the MVFC WIU and bottom of the Big Sky Cal Poly) with an average MOD of 17.3 points. Is a team that bad on the road really a top 5-10 team?

Sacramento State in at 23. They haven't played since their first playoff game in 2019, a game they lost at home. They had a hell of a QB on that roster who transferred to Wazzou. That QB missed like 2.5 games in 2019 and in those two and a half games Sac State was not good. They got skull ****ed by Weber State and needed an NAU collapse to not lose to a bottom level Big Sky team. Their QB is a MAAAASIVE question mark for them. They lost multiple OL from that team as well. Look at the defense and something like 7 of their top 10 tacklers are gone - and that's assuming there have been no other transfers.

Call it bias but I don't trust any SWAC/MEAC team over the vast majority of the "power" MVFC conferences, especially 4 or 5 from each of those conferences.

JSU we've seen year after year after year get tons of credit for ripping through the OVC only to find out they really aren't all that good.

I, in no way, would advocate for UNI to be a top 10 team, if that's what it seems like I'm doing. I'm saying that the fact UNI doesn't even get a single vote in any of them but we have people voting for 4 or 5 SWAC teams, multiple MEAC/NEC/Big South teams in their polls just doesn't sit quite right with me .


I think you're point about "teams played in the spring and are unchanged" makes it seem easier but it isn't. The spring was so ****ed up that I'm not sure you can draw much from the majority of teams out there. Between teams not playing more than a couple games, long breaks between games because of covid, players missing from sitting out or covid issues, etc. I think it makes it harder because there is no real true sample to draw from. There is an illusion of a sample but that's about it.

the poll is woke

UNI should be in the poll

Clenz, please let us know when you get to the bottom of this with Hero

[ysubigred]

the poll is woke

UNI should be in the poll

Clenz, please let us know when you get to the bottom of this with HeroHahaha,,, you said "woke"...

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[WestCoastAggie]

UNI should be in over Missouri State somewhere in that 20-25 range. But they’ll be in multiple polls soon enough.

I just can’t wait until the ball is dropped late august. It’s been TOO long without my Aggies touching the grass/turf and they are itching to play.

[caribbeanhen]

UNI should be in over Missouri State somewhere in that 20-25 range. But they’ll be in multiple polls soon enough.

I just can’t wait until the ball is dropped late august. It’s been TOO long without my Aggies touching the grass/turf and they are itching to play.

is the game with the Bison of Fargo happening? I was thinking you were going to shock em in 2020....

[JSUSoutherner]

This is becoming predictable!

Yeah. Just like John Grass running the team full speed into a second round playoff ass beating every year.

[WestCoastAggie]

is the game with the Bison of Fargo happening? I was thinking you were going to shock em in 2020....

Sept 2022. This season will tell us how well we’ll perform in Fargo next fall.

[clenz]

UNI should be in over Missouri State somewhere in that 20-25 range. But they’ll be in multiple polls soon enough.

I just can’t wait until the ball is dropped late august. It’s been TOO long without my Aggies touching the grass/turf and they are itching to play.
Oh, as much as I don't get SIU being top 5-7, and as much as I don't get Sac State being in, MSU is another level after looking at them.

MSU was outscored on the season and it wasn't close. The average score of their games was 16-28
As much **** as UNI gets for not having an offense, UNI averaged over a field goal more points per game on the season and UNI had just2 passing touchdowns. Not that MSU was much better, they had a killer 5
MSU averaged 3.0 ypc for the season
MSU averaged 160 yards passing per game - even UNI was at 200

I think the spring season created some really strange results that greatly skew the opinions of teams moving into the fall because of the short turn around.

[SDFS]

To go with another MVFC team I see in every top 5-10: SIU. They gave up over 30 points per game last season. They were outscored for the year. Are we really ranking SIU because in the top 5 because they got a team with an even worse defense to come play them the last week of the season, snuck in as the last playoff team, and pulled an upset on Weber State? When was the last time a team gave up 30 points per game, 400 yards of offense per game, 5.5 yards per carry, over 6 yards per play, and got outscored on the season managed to be a consensus top 5-7 team? SIU is seen as this amazing offense, averaged 27 per game. UNI had two passing TD all spring and averaged 20.


Comments on SIU:

The offense kind of reminds me of USD when they had Chris Streveler. The difference is that USD was able to use Streveler full time and in the passing game. SIU has a platoon type of situation at QB with Javon Williams. They are a different team on offense when he is on the field and has it going. I think that they struggle with consistency on offense throughout the game. So, at times they go into a funk and that exposes the defense. Plus, they are kind of loose with the football which also exposes the defense. So, I don't think the D is as bad as it looks on paper. They do have some nice pieces along both the O and D line. And I really like the coach and the players seem to be all in with the program. Good things going on at SIU right now. As you said, not sure I agree with Top 5.. but they will be team to contend with this year.

NOTE: I think SIU went through 4 QB's last spring also. So, that could be part of the consistency issues.

I think that the MVFC is kind of open right now:

1) NDSU: I think they are the most complete team in MVFC - QB is the only semi question mark. The Fr had a questionable game at Sam Houston. In other games he looked very good. So, if he is the QB this year. It really isn't that much of a question mark. He is nice player who could be a very good QB. Plus, it sounds like NDSU has a couple of drop downs that could be difference makers. Unfortunately, NDSU is still at the top.

2) SDSU: Very good team. The QB position is much more of question mark. It does sound like they have FCS grad transfer coming in but I am not sure who the options are at this point.

3-A) SIU/UNI: Mirror image of each other - one relies on defense and the other on offense. See more above for more comments on SIU. UNI - don't think they need much. They just need the QB to be a game manager. Tuck and run for first downs and get the short underneath stuff going with the running game. Keep the chains moving type of offense and good things will happen.

3-B) UND: The O-line was the strength of the offense last year. They lost two guards and center from the spring team. They have had problems reloading at that position group recently. They have one proven replacement but the other two are yet to be determined. And interior defense is a major concern. Last spring two of it's young prospects didn't play and it left UND short staffed at the NG position. They worked through it but it has to be addressed for the defense to take a step forward. Power running game was a major problem in both the JMU and NDSU games.

4) MSU/YSU/USD - all of them have pieces. And one of them could be a surprise and break through.

?? ISU-R/ISU-B: Man I saw some social media stuff with ISU-R - it sounds like the locker room is a mess with bad relationships with the coach. Multiple players leaving the team - that type of stuff can go crazy bad in a hurry. I have a ton respect for ISU-R but I have no idea which way they are going to go.. they could be a top 3 with improved QB play or on the bottom. ISU-B I have not seen them play - no idea. They could come out in beast mode if they spent the entire time away training or not.

[ST_Lawson]

I think that the MVFC is kind of open right now:

1) NDSU:...

2) SDSU: ...

3-A) SIU/UNI:...

3-B) UND:...

4) MSU/YSU/USD...

?? ISU-R/ISU-B:...

WIU - so bad we didn't even get mentioned

[clenz]

Comments on SIU:

The offense kind of reminds me of USD when they had Chris Streveler. The difference is that USD was able to use Streveler full time and in the passing game. SIU has a platoon type of situation at QB with Javon Williams. They are a different team on offense when he is on the field and has it going. I think that they struggle with consistency on offense throughout the game. So, at times they go into a funk and that exposes the defense. Plus, they are kind of loose with the football which also exposes the defense. So, I don't think the D is as bad as it looks on paper. They do have some nice pieces along both the O and D line. And I really like the coach and the players seem to be all in with the program. Good things going on at SIU right now. As you said, not sure I agree with Top 5.. but they will be team to contend with this year.

NOTE: I think SIU went through 4 QB's last spring also. So, that could be part of the consistency issues.
I can't disagree. I look at the UNI/SIU game last year

UNI led 13-0 at half and 16-10 with 10 minutes left in the fourth. SIU has less than zero on offense and then all of a sudden Labanowitz comes in and just Johnny Football at TAMU's everything out of his asshole.

Even with that UNI missed two field goals, including one with 7 seconds left from 30 to win (the other miss was 24 and would have made the game 16-0 in the second quarter, which likely changes the game a fair amount).


Can SIU just play hot potato at QB and plug in a different QB every series until they find "the one" for that game and make it work? I'm not saying they can't, but they'd be the first team I know of to use that kind of QB system.

[SDFS]

WIU - so bad we didn't even get mentioned

Ahhh - shoot - I am sorry.. I actually really respect the heck out of WIU - I have US Marines service at Iwo Jima in my family tree. So, I love the "Leathernecks" name. I missed the UND/WIU game this spring. So, I don't have much of an opinion on WIU. Other than they Stole UND's playoff bid in 2015. Don't worry, I will get over it in about 10 or 20 years. xdrunkyx

[clenz]

Ahhh - shoot - I am sorry.. I actually really respect the heck out of WIU - I have US Marines service at Iwo Jima in my family tree. So, I love the "Leathernecks" name. I missed the UND/WIU game this spring. So, I don't have much of an opinion on WIU. Other than they Stole UND's playoff bid in 2015. Don't worry, I will get over it in about 10 or 20 years. xdrunkyx
I assumed you did what I do. With USD joining and now UND and the movement in the MVC and trying to remember MVC/MVFC teams plus summit teams I always forget at least one team but it's never the same team. I almost always will type something up listing teams or going through teams and I'll go back and count how many I listed and go "Who the hell am I missing" and have to pull up the league site and start matching up because my brain just won't click on it. UND coming in is going to make it harder. I'm so used to counting 10 teams and even adding just 1 is going to make it harder.

[caribbeanhen]

Sept 2022. This season will tell us how well we’ll perform in Fargo next fall.

Ah thanks

Great FCS match up and I really wish we had more of these type of out of conference games

[SDFS]

Yes, the entire MVC/MVFC/PL/SL is crazy and it always seems to be changing - now add St. Thomas to the mix. Hey quick question, what actually lead to UNI going from MidCont to MVC. The football side of it is so confusing MidCont supported football until 1985 with 4/6 teams. MVFC lasted until 1985 with both I-A and I-AA schools. Then everything merge into a an womens sports conference called the Gateway Conference which started football in 1985. Is that right? So, the Summit League and Missouri Valley both supported separate football conferences at one time. I had no idea that the Summit League (MidCont) had football - ever.

[clenz]

Yes, the entire MVC/MVFC/PL/SL is crazy and it always seems to be changing - now add St. Thomas to the mix. Hey quick question, what actually lead to UNI going from MidCont to MVC. The football side of it is so confusing MidCont supported football until 1985 with 4/6 teams. MVFC lasted until 1985 with both I-A and I-AA schools. Then everything merge into a an womens sports conference called the Gateway Conference which started football in 1985. Is that right? So, the Summit League and Missouri Valley both supported separate football conferences at one time. I had no idea that the Summit League (MidCont) had football - ever.
I have some MidCon media guides from the 80s burried in my documents somewhere.

The short of it is UNI left the MidCon for the same reason they moved to D2 before any other NCC teams did. The admin wanted to be better as an athletic department and university. Staying in the NCC rather than moving in 79/80 would have set the university back decades, if not permanently. The shifting between major college, small college, d2, FCS, FBS, etc. didn't really settle out until the late 80s. As it settled out about 1985 it was clear the 1-A/1-AA conference combo wouldn't work so the split was created. The Gateway started in 82 for womens sports, and with the shifting of the FBS/FCS settling out the Gateway added football as it's only men's sport and with the overlap of teams the MVC just took over the Gateway from the MidCon from an admin stand point.

In 92 the Gateway was fully merged into the MVC. Thus at that time the MVC and the football schools had to make a choice how to make it work. The MVC didn't want football, thus creating the separate side of it that is run by the MVC but isn't MVC. The MVC also needed teams and UNI (and MSU) was lucky enough to get an invite to the MVC at that time to join SIU, ISUr, Drake (floated as non-sholarship indy and was nearly killed as a program following 1985 and was only bailed out by the Dayton Rule, which created the PFL) that they had a history in the womens conference and football with. That allowed them to stay Gateway in football and move into a conference that would push them more in every other sport than the MidCon would. The MidCon has since gone through decades of being a revolving door of "misfit" schools. Doesn't mean there wasn't good schools, or good programs, but the footprint never made sense, the league never had any real number of members with similar focus and goals, etc. Schools like WIU and WIU hung on to the MidCon with Cleveland State, UIC, Green Bay, Valpo, and started their revolving door of members in 1990 to just keep the life support running - Akron for 2 years, NIU for 4 years, Wright State for 3 years, DePaul as an affiliate for 7 years, YSU for 9 years, UWM for 1 year, Central Conn State for 3 years, Troy State for 3 years, Buffalo for 3 years, Northeastern Illinois for 4 years, Chicago State for 12, UMKC twice, Southern Utah, ORU twice, IUPUI, Okland, Centenary, PFW. That list doesn't even include the 15 schools that have been affiliate members in smaller sports just to keep the MidCon/Summiit at the minimum number of sports/teams for AQ status. The Dakota State's joining in 08 with PFW (who left since) saved the Summit. USD, Omaha, and Denver just a couple years behind was a big boost.

Even now the Summit still kinda really looks like an "island of misfit toys" that don't fit the geography or focus of other conferences.

SDSU, NDSU and USD are all similar in their focus but geography, market size, and budgets keep them where they are. NDSU is clearly a football school but being in Fargo with the budgets they have in all their other sports isn't getting them an invite anywhere. USD is a middle school version of NDSU. SDSU had(s) the potential to be a MVC type team but they seem to have turned their department focus away from being a basketball school that is decent to pretty good at football (see the MVC teams) to a football school that is also trying to be good at basketball.Being in a town of 14k in South Dakota with a department that can't push a basketball budget of 3 million plus leaves them as a department with very limited to no options if they wanted them.

UNO and UND are hockey schools

ORU and UST are private school that don't REALLy want to be there but don't have another some secured yet. I've mentioned elsewhere ORU is apparently on their second Summit exit of the last decade for a conference they think fits them better and UST certainly seems like they will be looking for a better fit if they succeed - and they would make a decent target for certain conferences in 6-7 years if they succeed.

Denver is literally there because they don't have another option that will take them. Them and the MVC were real close in 2013 but Denver didn't want to add core MVC sports and detract from their hockey, lacrosse, and ski teams. None of the west coast conferences want anything to do with them at all.

UMKC and WIU no one knows. They are just a warm body to count as a department and UMKC is happy to be there


The MidCon/Horizon/MAC/Gateway had a hell of a shuffle take place between 81 and 94ish when the MAC and Sun Belt decided to settle out, and that's ignoring the **** that goes with how/why the PFL was created and the D3/D1 fight between 88-93

[caribbeanhen]

All fair points in my opinion.

much ado about nothing, the spring fling was totally in focus for me xcoffeex

watching games outside of your teams conference is a tremendous help

[nodak651]

SDFS, I think UNI/SIU/UND all deserve to be ranked together (no a or b). UND's O-line wasn't really that good... the year before they were terrible, with the same guys. They did all beef up and gain weight, but I think most of the reason they looked so good is because Freund's system keeps the QB moving and rolling out with quick passes - there isn't enough time to sack the QB no matter how good the OL is, and that is why there werent very many sacks given up. The QB never really sat back in the pocket waiting to throw a deep bomb, and thats partly why he won the QB battle over Quincy Vaugn - Freund wants the ball out of the QB's hands quickly, and he doesnt want to throw a ton of bombs all game. The OL was ok for rushing, but having a guy like Otis Weah will always make the OL look better than it is - just look at his highlight real fumble TD vs SDSU - they would have had any other RB tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage - otis is powerful and shifty enough that he is hardly ever tackled by the first guy that touches him. I'm not really trying to make a point here, because I still think the OL is a question mark. I just think the OL from this spring was overrated and I don't know if that is a good thing or bad thing.

Clenz, I don't think you are being unfair about UND's away performance either. I think you can look deeper into each game and find some legit excuses, but that doesn't really change what really matters, which is the W/L record. UND played great on the road vs a great Weber State team, and would have won if not for a last minute kick return that was fumbled. EWU game was essentially played during a blizzard, but EWU gashing our defense highlighted the D-line issues we have had. The ISU loss, UNDs flight arrived super late, after their initial flight out of GF was cancelled, and they had to bus a couple hours away and fly out of Bemidji before making it to Pocatello. UNDs loss vs NAU was the last game of the season and the last game with our old OC, which I think the players gave up and essentially used field performance and lack of effort to get the guy fired. At the end of the day though, there are no excuses, and W/L is all that matters. I just don't think that UNDS completely terrible W/L performance will continue at the same rate in the future.


I have some MidCon media guides from the 80s burried in my documents somewhere.

The short of it is UNI left the MidCon for the same reason they moved to D2 before any other NCC teams did. The admin wanted to be better as an athletic department and university. Staying in the NCC rather than moving in 79/80 would have set the university back decades, if not permanently. The shifting between major college, small college, d2, FCS, FBS, etc. didn't really settle out until the late 80s. As it settled out about 1985 it was clear the 1-A/1-AA conference combo wouldn't work so the split was created. The Gateway started in 82 for womens sports, and with the shifting of the FBS/FCS settling out the Gateway added football as it's only men's sport and with the overlap of teams the MVC just took over the Gateway from the MidCon from an admin stand point.

In 92 the Gateway was fully merged into the MVC. Thus at that time the MVC and the football schools had to make a choice how to make it work. The MVC didn't want football, thus creating the separate side of it that is run by the MVC but isn't MVC. The MVC also needed teams and UNI (and MSU) was lucky enough to get an invite to the MVC at that time to join SIU, ISUr, Drake (floated as non-sholarship indy and was nearly killed as a program following 1985 and was only bailed out by the Dayton Rule, which created the PFL) that they had a history in the womens conference and football with. That allowed them to stay Gateway in football and move into a conference that would push them more in every other sport than the MidCon would. The MidCon has since gone through decades of being a revolving door of "misfit" schools. Doesn't mean there wasn't good schools, or good programs, but the footprint never made sense, the league never had any real number of members with similar focus and goals, etc. Schools like WIU and WIU hung on to the MidCon with Cleveland State, UIC, Green Bay, Valpo, and started their revolving door of members in 1990 to just keep the life support running - Akron for 2 years, NIU for 4 years, Wright State for 3 years, DePaul as an affiliate for 7 years, YSU for 9 years, UWM for 1 year, Central Conn State for 3 years, Troy State for 3 years, Buffalo for 3 years, Northeastern Illinois for 4 years, Chicago State for 12, UMKC twice, Southern Utah, ORU twice, IUPUI, Okland, Centenary, PFW. That list doesn't even include the 15 schools that have been affiliate members in smaller sports just to keep the MidCon/Summiit at the minimum number of sports/teams for AQ status. The Dakota State's joining in 08 with PFW (who left since) saved the Summit. USD, Omaha, and Denver just a couple years behind was a big boost.

Even now the Summit still kinda really looks like an "island of misfit toys" that don't fit the geography or focus of other conferences.

SDSU, NDSU and USD are all similar in their focus but geography, market size, and budgets keep them where they are. NDSU is clearly a football school but being in Fargo with the budgets they have in all their other sports isn't getting them an invite anywhere. USD is a middle school version of NDSU. SDSU had(s) the potential to be a MVC type team but they seem to have turned their department focus away from being a basketball school that is decent to pretty good at football (see the MVC teams) to a football school that is also trying to be good at basketball.Being in a town of 14k in South Dakota with a department that can't push a basketball budget of 3 million plus leaves them as a department with very limited to no options if they wanted them.

UNO and UND are hockey schools

ORU and UST are private school that don't REALLy want to be there but don't have another some secured yet. I've mentioned elsewhere ORU is apparently on their second Summit exit of the last decade for a conference they think fits them better and UST certainly seems like they will be looking for a better fit if they succeed - and they would make a decent target for certain conferences in 6-7 years if they succeed.

Denver is literally there because they don't have another option that will take them. Them and the MVC were real close in 2013 but Denver didn't want to add core MVC sports and detract from their hockey, lacrosse, and ski teams. None of the west coast conferences want anything to do with them at all.

UMKC and WIU no one knows. They are just a warm body to count as a department and UMKC is happy to be there


The MidCon/Horizon/MAC/Gateway had a hell of a shuffle take place between 81 and 94ish when the MAC and Sun Belt decided to settle out, and that's ignoring the **** that goes with how/why the PFL was created and the D3/D1 fight between 88-93

I could def see UST looking to move on after a few years. . My hope is that they see some value in the huge number of alumni from the Dakota schools living in the cities. I think this will help with attendance and rivalries, as they will need to fill the void that St. Johns left when leaving their D3 conference. If these rivalries form, which they definantly have the potential for, I could see the bond between UST and the Dakota schools being strong enough with the Alumni bas that UST would stay in the Summit, especially if the Stature of Summit League basketball improves, and it looks like it is heading that way with the success of the conf tourney in Sioux Falls and the run we just saw with Oral Roberts. UST and Denver also have a lot in common and the two schools enroll students with similar attributes. UST may also choose to spend tons of money on hockey, which will limit the potential of their basketball team. They will undoubtedly have better fan support and ticket sales in hockey, rather than basketball, and I am basing this prediction on looking at all of the public financial reports at schools that have both D1 basketball and hockey. There is also a recent article out where the AD states that their first order of business will most likely be the construction of a new hockey arena before looking at increasing basketball capacity, potentially at their existing venue. He wants to see UST fill their basketball arena before looking at expansion there, and I'm not so certain that will happen in the near term, especially without fans from opposing schools that live in the metro area. Fans from the Dakota Schools will account for a significant portion of attendance and ticket sales. It will be almost like a St. Johns game with away fans every time they play NDSU, USD, UND, or SDSU, imo. Also, I'm not sure they would accept an invite from any conference other than the MVC or Big East, and they would need a MVC history before ever getting looked at by the Big East. Will the MVC be interested in UST if they maintain football and hockey programs?

Here is a recent article, originally from the local newspaper (Pioneer Press) that discusses their facilities. I included the Baskatball and Hockey excerpts below:
https://ccha.com/news/2021/7/9/mens-ice-hockey-as-tommies-move-to-division-i-athletics-their-facilities-must-follow.aspx

MEN’S BASKETBALL


With its 2,000 seats, Schoenecker Arena is one of smallest venues in the Summit League. Only Kansas City plays in a smaller arena (1,500). While expansion might be inevitable, the question is, how big do they go?


“You try to find the sweet spot from a capacity standpoint,” Esten said. “You’d rather have a slightly smaller facility that you fill with regularity than a larger facility you don’t fill with regularity — even if you are able to draw a little higher attendance from time to time.


“I think there is something to be said for the notion of scarcity. Also, when you have a full arena or stadium, there is an X factor there. It becomes a home-court, home-field, home-ice advantage, and that becomes an important part of the collegiate experience.”


According to Douple, most mid-major men’s basketball programs draw an average of 2,500 to 3,500 fans a game.


“I’m sure St. Thomas will look at their footprint to determine if they can expand,” he said, “but it’s more important for them to sell out what they have.”


Esten agrees.


“Once we demonstrate we can fill it with regularity and we’ve got a demand for tickets, then we’ll look at what it will take to expand or do something else,” he said.

MEN’S HOCKEY


St. Thomas Ice Arena served the Tommies well as a Division III school, but it simply doesn’t meet the needs of a Division I program. Every other school in the CCCHA plays in an arena with at least 2,500 seats. And when it comes to hockey, the Tommies have their sites on being competitive against the likes of the Gophers, Minnesota Duluth and St. Cloud State as well, and facilities will play a major role in being able to recruit against those schools.


“It’s hard to say exactly what that will be,” Esten said of the next home for the men’s program, “whether it would be a shared facility or a new St. Thomas facility off campus.”


In the meantime, Esten said it is possible that one or more marquee games could be played at an alternate site this season and in future seasons, but he added that no discussions have taken place to date. Along with hosting St. Cloud State in their opening weekend, the Tommies will have home games against conference opponents Minnesota State Mankato and Bemidji State.


“Whether it’s the University of Minnesota, any of the larger professional arenas in the Twin Cities or municipal-owned facilities, I think there are a lot of really neat options for us,” Esten said. “That’s if it makes sense; if the ice is open at that time, if the partnership makes sense, if they’re interested, if we’re interested, then we can progress with the conversation.”


Esten said St. Thomas will look at public-private partnerships, off-campus facilities, and any other options that make sense.


Lucia believes that the Tommies should focus on making the best of their current arena until a new home is built or found.


“I told Phil that I am completely comfortable with them playing in that facility as a short-term facility,” Lucia said. “I think it makes more sense to play in one facility rather than bounce around to two or three facilities around the Twin Cities.


“I’m not concerned; it’s a nice arena. They’ll spruce it up nice and it will be a nice home-ice atmosphere.”

[clenz]

Will the MVC be interested in UST if they maintain football and hockey programs?
This is VERY speculative - YEARS down the road with so many things that could change before it happens - but


In theory, Yes.

UNI, SIU, ISUR, ISUB and MSU all have scholarship football and spend a fair amount (upper half to 25% of the FCS). It also has Drake and Valpo that run football at the PFL level, as UST is planning on doing.

Hockey would be a new one, but not completely out of the world for the MVC to look at. Remember in 2013 when Creighton left Denver was on of the top options for that slot. It wasn't hockey that was the issue, directly, that caused it to not work. The Valley had no issue with Denver having hockey and putting their money into it. The issue was Denver wasn't willing to expand their budget to match core Valley sports budgets - and needing to add a couple core Valley sports. You could argue that wasn't going to happen because it could impact their hockey budget and it would be extremely valid, however, it shows the Valley isn't going to shy away from a "hockey" school.

That is backed up with the search after Wichita State left after the 16/17 year. The lists of finalists with Valpo (still believe it was the wrong choice for many reasons) was Murray State, UW-Milwaukee, and UN-O. From what I've heard UN-O likely always going to finish 4th out of those 4 but they are a hockey school and were on the "short list" so to speak just 4 years ago. As I said, it sounds like they were always a 4th out of 4 situation but my sources have told me the visit portion of the finalists was a **** show disaster at UN-O compared to everywhere else. The other 3 realized what was happening and had their facilities dressed to the nines, cleaned, and put on display. UN-O apparently couldn't have given less of a **** and couldn't even pretend to make their facilities look ready for "the show", along with their financials and proposed vision being a disaster. Think the episode of The Office where Charles Miner asks Jim to have his "rundown" ready by the end of the day for Charles to look over and Jim had no idea what the **** that meant. That was UNO.

I think the larger issue for the Valley when this hypothetical happens is that it is 6-7 years from now (probably) and based on the way things are going the Valley was at 12 and lost member(s) again. Who was lost and why. Was it Loyola getting an A10 or Big East call, which without Porter Moser leading and Cam Krutwig on roster anymore, that basketball program I think we are going to see them trend back a bit. Was it Indiana State and the financial situation of the Valley in the 2020s an issue? Was it the "big one" like the Big East/American split that many of us in the Valley have feared happening since we watched it happen there. The MVFC/MVC is, in many ways, a smaller version of exactly the issues that tore the Big East apart.

I can tell you this, based on 2021 standards, the basketball program for the men needs to have been running the summit similar to what SDSU has been doing - blah blah blah NDSU and conference tournament success, you get my point. On top of that they need to have demand/plans for an arena that will hold 6-8k. One of Loyola's mandates in 2013 was updating Gentile Arena, and while it isn't sized like the rest of the Valley the upgrades were nice and it can be an intimidating 4500. A 2000 seat facility isn't going to cut it. That is part of what makes so many hate the Valpo add. There was no facility mandate for them and Valpo's facilities are trash. It was a great intro for the school and the MVC where the first official MVC event they hosted was a volleyball game against a top 25 ranked UNI team and the entire Valley admin was there. Their "gym", because it isn't an arena...hell it's just their rec center basically, doesn't have any kind of air conditioning. IIRC it was reported to have been near 100 degrees in the gym as the game was being played. I remember photos of the Valley admin doing a ceremony pregame just drenched in sweat. I got off topic. Bare minimum it would have to be equal to what Loyola has now with Gentile, but up to D1 standards in 2028 (given this situation).

Basically if the Valley stays, mostly, as is and the rumored move to 12 with UTA and ORU happens, the only way UST would get an invite if everything goes perfectly for them is ORU decides to find a new home again, or someone like ISUb looks for an OVC move. I could see it happen, though it would be intersting to see. The new commish for the Valley is very clear he wants to go south and open new, and larger, markets. Now MSP isn't south but it is a large market. It's a market that UNI is HEAVILY vested in for many sports. Outside of UNI though, there isn't a ton of MSP recruiting in the Valley, even from Drake. It would be interesting to see the pitch of "I know they are 8-12 hours NW of everyone else in the Valley, and literally across the country from our southern members, and they are a small school with basically no name recognition nationally, but it is the right move". I'm sure UNI would go for it, but given the UNI recruiting ties to MSP it would be interesting the internal discussions happening about volunteering to let our #1 recruiting bed be opened up to a conference rival in that metro.

[SDFS]

SDFS, I think UNI/SIU/UND all deserve to be ranked together (no a or b). UND's O-line wasn't really that good... the year before they were terrible, with the same guys. They did all beef up and gain weight, but I think most of the reason they looked so good is because Freund's system keeps the QB moving and rolling out with quick passes - there isn't enough time to sack the QB no matter how good the OL is, and that is why there weren't very many sacks given up. The QB never really sat back in the pocket waiting to throw a deep bomb, and that's partly why he won the QB battle over Quincy Vaugn - Freund wants the ball out of the QB's hands quickly, and he doesn't want to throw a ton of bombs all game.

I don't think much separates UNI/SIU and UND. But UND has open questions in the middle of the offense and defensive lines and nothing can sink a season quicker than problems at those two positions. I agree with you the OC schemes and QB play made the Oline look very good this spring. The problem for this fall is that MVFC coaches now have film and they will adjust. Schemes can only take you so far.. it will eventually require on the field talent. NOTE: I really like Danny Freund at OC and he is making a name for himself among the head coaches. You can hear that in post game press conferences with comments like - "the eye candy hurt us", "they were dealing it today" and "they keep us off balance all day".


The OL was ok for rushing, but having a guy like Otis Weah will always make the OL look better than it is - just look at his highlight real fumble TD vs SDSU - they would have had any other RB tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage - otis is powerful and shifty enough that he is hardly ever tackled by the first guy that touches him. I'm not really trying to make a point here, because I still think the OL is a question mark. I just think the OL from this spring was overrated and I don't know if that is a good thing or bad thing.


I think we agree on the questions with the O-line. And I like Otis's game - high motor, high effort. He does have a problem with ball security. Teams are going to pick up on that and they are going to be going for the ball.. which is going to lead to two potential outcomes: 1) Otis breaking more tackles or 2) more fumbles. And yes, I need to see more drive on the run blocking. I thought they held their own against - average competition. But, the line struggled against NDSU and JMU. SDSU held UND in check most of the 1/2 half but mid through the 3rd they starting getting some cracks with long runs in particular the run you are talking about.

[caribbeanhen]

I completely agree. I think that some coaches also never took the spring season seriously and treated it like an extended spring practice. You saw some teams run completely different depth charts out there from one week to the next and I think that some of the teams that bailed on their schedule midway through were teams where the coaches had just decided that they'd seen enough for the fall.

It's tough most years to gauge Week 1 strengths and weaknesses and it's going to be even harder this year. If anyone is putting down $ on FCS football this year, you might want to wait until October.

who were the teams that were constantly switching up the depth charts from week to week?

[Libertine]

who were the teams that were constantly switching up the depth charts from week to week?

Off the top of my head, Western Carolina and Gardner-Webb did. I'm sure there would be more if someone wants to go through all the game notes and box scores.

[caribbeanhen]

Off the top of my head, Western Carolina and Gardner-Webb did. I'm sure there would be more if someone wants to go through all the game notes and box scores.

I was curious and thanks for the reply

[nodak651]

Chattanooga?

[JSUSoutherner]

Chattanooga Sucks

FIFY

[caribbeanhen]

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2021-preseason-top-25-bzbz/

25. Missouri State
T23. Sacramento State
T23. East Tennessee State
22. Murray State
21. Alcorn State
20. Chattanooga
19. North Carolina A&T
18. Austin Peay
17. Villanova
16. Eastern Washington
15. Jacksonville State
T13. VMI
T13. Southeastern Louisiana
12. Monmouth
11. Central Arkansas
10. North Dakota
9. Montana
T7. Weber State
T7. Montana State
6. Delaware
5. Southern Illinois
4. North Dakota State
3. South Dakota State
2. James Madison
1. Sam Houston
Received Votes (alphabetical order):
Alabama A&M, Florida A&M, Kennesaw State, Nicholls, Rhode Island

No Dartmouth
No Princeton
No Yale

[ysubigred]

No Dartmouth
No Princeton
No YaleAnd? Pre season polls don't mean squat.

xtwocentsx

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[ysubigred]

FIFY[emoji106]

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[caribbeanhen]

And? Pre season polls don't mean squat.

xtwocentsx

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

they don’t but this is more about how the Ivies don’t get much love on AGS

several teams in top 25 poll would get blown out vs Top Ivy teams seeing how strong the League has been recently

[ysubigred]

they don’t but this is more about how the Ivies don’t get much love on AGS

several teams in top 25 poll would get blown out vs Top Ivy teams seeing how strong the League has been recentlyI get it but correct me if I'm wrong. The Ivys didn't do spring ball and this poll appears to be a carry over from the end of spring?

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[caribbeanhen]

I get it but correct me if I'm wrong. The Ivys didn't do spring ball and this poll appears to be a carry over from the end of spring?

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I absolutely agree

[Daytripper]

I get it but correct me if I'm wrong. The Ivys didn't do spring ball and this poll appears to be a carry over from the end of spring?

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Yes. And I also think the lack of playing in the fall and spring will be an issue for those teams. That is a long time between competitive football games.

[ysubigred]

Yes. And I also think the lack of playing in the fall and spring will be an issue for those teams. That is a long time between competitive football games.I agree..

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[NY Crusader 2010]

they don’t but this is more about how the Ivies don’t get much love on AGS

several teams in top 25 poll would get blown out vs Top Ivy teams seeing how strong the League has been recently

This is probably true. But it's been so long since anyone in this conference played a down of football that it's pretty difficult for pollsters to pick who exactly the top teams in the Ivy will be. The top couple of teams will almost undoubtedly be Top-25 caliber but how do we have any idea how to project who that will be?

Typically, the Ivy favorite is given a token pre-season ranking somewhere between 18 or so and 25. And if the top 1-2 Ivy teams play really well throughout the season, they move up a little bit from there. But with nothing to go off of, I think we need to wait and see who earns a Top 25 ranking on the field.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Yes. And I also think the lack of playing in the fall and spring will be an issue for those teams. That is a long time between competitive football games.

Ultimately, I think the Ivies will be fine. Don't expect to see a major drop-off as far as quality of play. There were plenty of other teams who played a small shell of a season due to COVID cancellations, and in some cases programs just decided to fold the tent early. Rhode Island and UNH shuttered their spring season after a couple of games each. Colgate did the same. William & Mary managed to get only 2 games in if I recall due to opponents' having to cancel. As much buzz as was generated around Holy Cross, we played a whopping four games, including the postseason.

[caribbeanhen]

This is probably true. But it's been so long since anyone in this conference played a down of football that it's pretty difficult for pollsters to pick who exactly the top teams in the Ivy will be. The top couple of teams will almost undoubtedly be Top-25 caliber but how do we have any idea how to project who that will be?

Typically, the Ivy favorite is given a token pre-season ranking somewhere between 18 or so and 25. And if the top 1-2 Ivy teams play really well throughout the season, they move up a little bit from there. But with nothing to go off of, I think we need to wait and see who earns a Top 25 ranking on the field.

Right, I’m speaking more to about how good Princeton and Dartmouth were a few years back and how slow or stubborn AGS was to recognize it in the polls, mostly because they don’t participate in playoffs

[MR. CHICKEN]

Ultimately, I think the Ivies will be fine. Don't expect to see a major drop-off as far as quality of play. There were plenty of other teams who played a small shell of a season due to COVID cancellations, and in some cases programs just decided to fold the tent early. Rhode Island and UNH shuttered their spring season after a couple of games each. Colgate did the same. William & Mary managed to get only 2 games in if I recall due to opponents' having to cancel. As much buzz as was generated around Holy Cross, we played a whopping four games, including the postseason.

32019........TOWSON OPTED OUT COMPLETELY......FO' FALL/SPRING........AN' ARE......PICKED #7 OUTTAH 12 IN CAA.........WE MAY BE IN DARK TA SOME TEAMS TALENT........COACHES ARE WELL AWARE...UH WHO AN' WHAT.....DUH COMPETITION IS UP TA.......AWK!

........IT'LL BE 22 MONTHS UH INACTIVITY......FO' IVIES.....WHEN DEY START IN MIDDLE SEPT...........WELL RESTED......AN' WE DON'T KNOW EFFECTS UH SPRING SEASON.......ON DUH FALL ONE......FO' TEAMS WHOM GOT 7-8 GAMES IN......BRAWK!

[caribbeanhen]

Sept 2022. This season will tell us how well we’ll perform in Fargo next fall.

Well I had some hope for you guys in the original scheduled game, but now all bets are off