Athlon Preseason 2021 FCS Top 25

[KPSUL]

JMU #1, NDSU #2, SHSU #3, SDSU #4 ?

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/athlon-sports-preseason-fcs-top-25-2021

[McCowboys]

Do they not know that SHSU will be in the WAC this season?

[Daytripper]

Craig Haley. Incompetent. Full Stop.

[kdinva]

JMU #1, NDSU #2, SHSU #3, SDSU #4 ?

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/athlon-sports-preseason-fcs-top-25-2021

Love #18!

[Professor Chaos]

How will Curt Cignetti ever motivate his team now???

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No Holy Cross?! C'mon....

[DFW HOYA]

No Holy Cross?! C'mon....

That's what PL football has come to. Pioneer, PL, NEC, and SWAC did not receive any votes.

Deion Sanders and Jackson State may have something to say about that before all is said and done but the PL scattershot scheduling approach isn't designed to get votes.

[Daytripper]

That's what PL football has come to. Pioneer, PL, NEC, and SWAC did not receive any votes.

Deion Sanders and Jackson State may have something to say about that before all is said and done but the PL scattershot scheduling approach isn't designed to get votes.

Jackson State is getting some serious talent, but I have yet to see any real evidence that Deion can put it together and actually win games. With a full offseason to work with his team, we should see a significant improvement.

[katss07]

Seems like Haley and the media are always willing to give JMU a pass. Since when are the Dukes consistent enough to get that? I can understand having enough confidence in NDSU to have them at one, as they’ve been there and done that, but did the Bearkats not just beat JMU? Can’t see justifying having Sam or SDSU below the Dukes.

[dewey]

Seems like Haley and the media are always willing to give JMU a pass. Since when are the Dukes consistent enough to get that? I can understand having enough confidence in NDSU to have them at one, as they’ve been there and done that, but did the Bearkats not just beat JMU? Can’t see justifying having Sam or SDSU below the Dukes.

Well SDSU stud freshman quarterback that tore his ACL is out for the year. That is a big question mark for SDSU.

I personally would have SHSU at 1, James Madison at 2, SDSU at 3 and NDSU at 4.

However Craig Haley did say that you could draw names put of a hat to rank the top 5 or so.

Dewey

[Katfan]

How will Curt Cignetti ever motivate his team now???
He will post the AGS poll in the locker room!

[Daytripper]

He will post the AGS poll in the locker room!

Well played.

[Katfan]

I think Craig believes that Sam was playing there best at the end of the season and everyone else had injuries or reasons to explain the losses to Sam. The reality if the Sam team that won the ship was no where near the team that started the season. The Oline was short several players and the best receiver not Ezzard was out. The weakness in Oline hurt the offense in top which resulted in the defense being so what gassed at the end of games. I hope everyone is healthy and we see. But I will say had JMU or NDSU won he would have them #1!

[katss07]

How much of a drop off do we expect from Gronowski to Oladokun? Obviously Gronowski was fantastic this spring, but Oladokun is no slouch. Guy threw for over 2,000 yards in 2019 to go with 18 TDs. He’s a mobile QB, and we’ve seen that style of player have big success at South Dakota State.

He was highly touted out of high school and was a three star recruit. Maybe he just needs to be surrounded by the right guys in the right program to break out.

[WestCoastAggie]

There is a large ranking gap between the 3 big south schools mentioned in the poll.

[KPSUL]

No Holy Cross?! C'mon....

With OOC games vs Monmouth, Yale and Harvard the Cross will have opportunities to prove they should be ranked.

[BEAR]

UCA at #13????? This is pathetic. Seriously 😒

[Professor Chaos]

How much of a drop off do we expect from Gronowski to Oladokun? Obviously Gronowski was fantastic this spring, but Oladokun is no slouch. Guy threw for over 2,000 yards in 2019 to go with 18 TDs. He’s a mobile QB, and we’ve seen that style of player have big success at South Dakota State.

He was highly touted out of high school and was a three star recruit. Maybe he just needs to be surrounded by the right guys in the right program to break out.
Tough to count too much on transfers at QB IMO... there's so much mentally that has to go into changing systems. He might pick up the offense without any issues and be ready to start in the fall, he might be slow to pick up or not pick it up at all and not see the field at all this fall. Personally, I don't think Heide should be discounted as being a serviceable starter for SDSU. It's not like they need a guy who can throw for big yards with their running game. I'd say it's Heide's job to lose right now and if the Samford guy beats him out in the fall SDSU fans should be able to feel pretty good about their QB situation.

[NY Crusader 2010]

With OOC games vs Monmouth, Yale and Harvard the Cross will have opportunities to prove they should be ranked.

Exactly. And UCONN -- as bad as the Huskies are likely to be, an FBS win would most definitely have us in the ORV column and in striking distance to move up with a win over one of the others. Most importantly, we have a chance to put ourselves in position for an at large if the non-conference goes well. Our likely top challenger in the PL (Fordham) hosts us in the Bronx this year. And we've beaten them twice in a row -- both comebacks from double-digit deficits. So the Rams will be hungry to knock us off this fall.

[Chalupa Batman]

Tough to count too much on transfers at QB IMO... there's so much mentally that has to go into changing systems. He might pick up the offense without any issues and be ready to start in the fall, he might be slow to pick up or not pick it up at all and not see the field at all this fall. Personally, I don't think Heide should be discounted as being a serviceable starter for SDSU. It's not like they need a guy who can throw for big yards with their running game. I'd say it's Heide's job to lose right now and if the Samford guy beats him out in the fall SDSU fans should be able to feel pretty good about their QB situation.

I don’t think SDSU puts nearly as much on their QB’s decision making was as NDSU does, so if he’s not starting I don’t think it will be because he couldn’t pick up the offense. It would more likely be that a fire was lit under Heide’s ass and he really improved. Between the two of them someone should win the job because they played well and earned it, so I agree that SDSU fans should feel pretty good about the QB situation.

[Cocky]

JSU not in the top 5? Does he not know our Head Coach has been in Hawaii all summer getting rejuvenated? And no I did not misspell recruiting.

[SHSU90]

JSU not in the top 5? Does he not know our Head Coach has been in Hawaii all summer getting rejuvenated? And no I did not misspell recruiting.

Sounds like he will have the Cocks ready for the season!

[caribbeanhen]

Sam Houston should be ranked #1 until proven otherwise

this guys mid west bias is off the charts

[Bisonator]

Sam Houston should be ranked #1 until proven otherwise

this guys mid west bias is off the charts
JMU is in the midwest? xlolx

And yes NDSU is too high for now, should probably be around 5.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross is a Top 25 program....the country is catching up to that fact..

[Daytripper]

Sam Houston should be ranked #1 until proven otherwise

this guys mid west bias is off the charts


I'm not sure it is midwest bias...Haley just hates Sam Houston. Always looking for ANY reason, valid or not, to downgrade us. He's a hack.

[KPSUL]

JMU is in the midwest? xlolx

And yes NDSU is too high for now, should probably be around 5.

Yes. Mid-western Virginia.

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross is a Top 25 program....the country is catching up to that fact..

I appreciate a fan's perspective and, as a fan of a program that isn't close to that, it's certainly an aspirational place to aim for the top. But Holy Cross is not a Top 25 program nationally.

How do you rate Top 25? Five categories:

1. Win-loss record
2. Playoff participation and success
3. Strength and reach of schedule
4. Attendance
5. Players selected into the NFL.

1. Holy Cross' five year record (excepting 2020) is 26-31.
2. Holy Cross has been in the playoffs four times and has not advanced from the first round.
3. The Holy Cross schedule is almost exclusively in the Northeast and skews to Ivy League schools. It has not played a game west of Lewisburg, PA (excepting the playoffs) since 2003.
4. Holy Cross' attendance in 2019 was 8,413, 31st in the subdivision.
5. Holy Cross has two players on NFL rosters according to ESPN.

Holy Cross is the best of an underperforming league right now, but it is outside the top 25 in the entire subdivision.

[caribbeanhen]

xcoffeex
JMU is in the midwest? xlolx

And yes NDSU is too high for now, should probably be around 5.

Anything West of the Chesapeake Bay is the Mid-west for me xcoffeex

This guy still doesn’t believe Sam Houston beat North Dakota State, JMU and South Dakota St in 2 calendar weeks

[Cocky]

JMU is in the midwest? xlolx

And yes NDSU is too high for now, should probably be around 5.


Jesse James was part of the wild wild west living in Missouri so JMU in the midwest isnt too much of a stretch

[Professor Chaos]

We don't toss streamers in the Midwest.

[Sader87]

I appreciate a fan's perspective and, as a fan of a program that isn't close to that, it's certainly an aspirational place to aim for the top. But Holy Cross is not a Top 25 program nationally.

How do you rate Top 25? Five categories:

1. Win-loss record
2. Playoff participation and success
3. Strength and reach of schedule
4. Attendance
5. Players selected into the NFL.

1. Holy Cross' five year record (excepting 2020) is 26-31.
2. Holy Cross has been in the playoffs four times and has not advanced from the first round.
3. The Holy Cross schedule is almost exclusively in the Northeast and skews to Ivy League schools. It has not played a game west of Lewisburg, PA (excepting the playoffs) since 2003.
4. Holy Cross' attendance in 2019 was 8,413, 31st in the subdivision.
5. Holy Cross has two players on NFL rosters according to ESPN.

Holy Cross is the best of an underperforming league right now, but it is outside the top 25 in the entire subdivision.

1. HC finished the 2021 Spring season around #25 in most polls.
2. HC should be a lot better in the Fall....the Spring team was missing a lot of offensive weapons and working in a frosh QB.
3. Chesney has easily recruited (take it for what it is) in the Top 25 in the country the last couple of years.
4. HC has facilities second to none at the FCS level.
5. HC has a long history of doing very well at this level when they are allowed to have scholarships.

Holy Cross football was basically asleep/adrift from 1992-to the mid 2010s....saying HC isn't (or couldn't) be among the Top 25 programs of the FCS if they utilize the advantages they have correctly is just off-base.

[DFW HOYA]

1. HC finished the 2021 Spring season around #25 in most polls.
2. HC should be a lot better in the Fall....the Spring team was missing a lot of offensive weapons and working in a frosh QB.
3. Chesney has easily recruited (take it for what it is) in the Top 25 in the country the last couple of years.
4. HC has facilities second to none at the FCS level.
5. HC has a long history of doing very well at this level when they are allowed to have scholarships.

Holy Cross football was basically asleep/adrift from 1992-to the mid 2010s....saying HC isn't (or couldn't) be among the Top 25 programs of the FCS if they utilize the advantages they have correctly is just off-base.

That's my point - it's not that Holy Cross couldn't be a top 25 program, but it isn't one right now. The body of work in win-loss record, playoff participation, and strength of schedule needs time to develop and isn't at a level of a major Missouri Valley, Big Sky, or CAA school, in no small part because of scheduling.

A point of comparison to Holy Cross' playoff opponent in 2021, South Dakota State. The Jackrabbits take a more aggressive approach to scheduling and, for the most it part, it has been additive to its program success. Non-conference opponents since 2014 have included Missouri, Kansas (won), TCU, Iowa State, Minnesota, and Colorado State. To play UConn, BC, Albany, or a slate of Ivies does not elevate the HC program beyond the view of central New England. Unfair as it might be, beating Brown or Dartmouth is a net zero in FCS circles because they are a non-factor in terms of inter-conference play and are not in the playoffs. Getting Holy Cross to open with Northwestern or TCU or East Carolina or FCS games with the likes of a MVFC or SoCon school would be steps in the right direction on elevating the program beyond a regional approach.

HC's facilities are good but certainly not "second to none". South Dakota State has an indoor practice field. A number of schools do, just not as many in the Northeast. Fitton Field has largely been untouched since 1986 and trails Lehigh in terms of outdoor facilities in the PL.

The Crusaders are going to have a good team this year but a Top 25 team playing in the PL should sweep the conference by three touchdowns every week.

[NY Crusader 2010]

1. HC finished the 2021 Spring season around #25 in most polls.
2. HC should be a lot better in the Fall....the Spring team was missing a lot of offensive weapons and working in a frosh QB.
3. Chesney has easily recruited (take it for what it is) in the Top 25 in the country the last couple of years.
4. HC has facilities second to none at the FCS level.
5. HC has a long history of doing very well at this level when they are allowed to have scholarships.

Holy Cross football was basically asleep/adrift from 1992-to the mid 2010s....saying HC isn't (or couldn't) be among the Top 25 programs of the FCS if they utilize the advantages they have correctly is just off-base.

I'm just as excited as you are about this coming fall -- and the next 2-3 years -- but I think we'd be best to pump the brakes a little bit. Couple reality checks:

1) Our stud frosh QB is a monster athlete but still vastly unproven when it comes to throwing the football.
2) We still have not won more than 7 games in a season since 2009.
3) Holy Cross has still yet to win an FCS playoff game in school history.
4) Odds are we enter Patriot League play below .500, even with a healthy, well-performing team. First 5 games: @UCONN, Merrimack, @Yale, @Monmouth, Harvard.
5) We face our top PL challenger Fordham on the road and sort of give up home-field advantage against Colgate (who we should beat anywhere FWIW) with the Polar Park game.

[Milktruck74]

Jesse James was part of the wild wild west living in Missouri so JMU in the midwest isnt too much of a stretch

And Teddy Roosevelt let the baby bear go while hunting out west......in Mississippi. So, I smell what you're stepping in!!!

[Sader87]

Being a Top 25 FCS team (or program) isn't really a huge stretch for anyone in 2021....a good 15-20 or so former good FCS programs from around 1995 or so are FBS now. Look every year at who are in the Top 20-25 range in the FCS....it's programs like Sacred Heart, VMI, Austin Peay etc....you don't think HC is/can be the equivalent of them?

Holy Cross by just about any metric (right now)....is a Top 25 FCS program.

[KPSUL]

Being a Top 25 FCS team (or program) isn't really a huge stretch for anyone in 2021....a good 15-20 or so former good FCS programs from around 1995 or so are FBS now. Look every year at who are in the Top 20-25 range in the FCS....it's programs like Sacred Heart, VMI, Austin Peay etc....you don't think HC is/can be the equivalent of them?

Holy Cross by just about any metric (right now)....is a Top 25 FCS program.

Sorry to jump into this PL discussion concerning the Holy Cross return to greatness, but the jury is still out on this. No team really has a lock on on positions 20-25, just look back at the last fifty or so AGS poll threads - a plethora of comments about how much of a roll of the dice it is to select the bottom 5 or 10 of the FCS Top 25. Teams come and go from the 20-25 positions about as frequently as I change my socks. Take a rest on this declaration until HC has won a majority of its OOC games as well as a playoff game or two.

[DFW HOYA]

Being a Top 25 FCS team (or program) isn't really a huge stretch for anyone in 2021....a good 15-20 or so former good FCS programs from around 1995 or so are FBS now. Look every year at who are in the Top 20-25 range in the FCS....it's programs like Sacred Heart, VMI, Austin Peay etc....you don't think HC is/can be the equivalent of them?

Holy Cross by just about any metric (right now)....is a Top 25 FCS program.

Sacred Heart, VMI, Austin Peay are not even in the conversation.

Here are 25 top programs, not just the top 25 in a poll. This is the group HC should aspire to be playing among.

1. North Dakota St.
2. James Madison
3. Sam Houston St.
4. Jacksonville St.
5. Eastern Washington
6. South Dakota St.
7. New Hampshire
8. Montana
9. Montana St.
10. Delaware
11. North Dakota
12. Northern Iowa
13. Kennesaw St.
14. Illinois St.
15. Weber St.
16. North Carolina A&T
17. Central Arkansas
18. Youngstown St.
19. Wofford
20. Florida A&M
21. Villanova
22. Nicholls St.
23. Northern Arizona
24. Grambling St.
25. Alcorn St.

[caribbeanhen]

Maybe they’re knocking on the door

Holy cross is ringing the bell

Do Sader a favor

Open the door and Let em in xcoffeexxcoffeexxcoffeex

[katss07]

If we’re including Nicholls on a Top 25 programs list, just go ahead and include Holy Cross AND Colgate.

[Daytripper]

If we’re including Nicholls on a Top 25 programs list, just go ahead and include Holy Cross AND Colgate.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Nicholls has been a consistent Top 25 team for about the last 4-5 years since Rebowe took over.

[BigBlueMU]

You spelled Monmouth wrong @ 13.


Sacred Heart, VMI, Austin Peay are not even in the conversation.

Here are 25 top programs, not just the top 25 in a poll. This is the group HC should aspire to be playing among.

1. North Dakota St.
2. James Madison
3. Sam Houston St.
4. Jacksonville St.
5. Eastern Washington
6. South Dakota St.
7. New Hampshire
8. Montana
9. Montana St.
10. Delaware
11. North Dakota
12. Northern Iowa
13. Kennesaw St.
14. Illinois St.
15. Weber St.
16. North Carolina A&T
17. Central Arkansas
18. Youngstown St.
19. Wofford
20. Florida A&M
21. Villanova
22. Nicholls St.
23. Northern Arizona
24. Grambling St.
25. Alcorn St.

[NY Crusader 2010]

DFW -- What time period are you basing your Top 25 program list on? Florida A&M has STUNK for basically 20 years until the last season or two where they did well but were post-season/bowl/conference championship ineligible.

If you're basing it on more recent success, Maine and Richmond should be there. Looking over a longer period of time, William & Mary belongs in a list of Top 25 FCS programs as would Furman and McNeese. Feel like you would have to put Harvard on there as well. I'd bump Nicholls and NAU off the list in that case as well as Grambling and Alcorn.

Since Tressel left, Youngstown has been pretty mediocre save for their run to Frisco 5 or 6 years ago so they probably belong more in the 22-25 range now. I also wouldn't have UND that high just yet. One quartfinal appearance ever doesn't put you in Top 10 programs in my book.

- - - Updated - - -


You spelled Monmouth wrong @ 13.

Phenomenal post.

[DFW HOYA]

Here's the point--being a top 25 program is much more than wins. If it were, San Diego would be a top five program.

What defines a top program?

1. Recent and repeatable success that supports decades of prior excellence.
2. Consistent and reliable attendance
3. An investment in the sport, including facilities and investing in the the game day experience
4. Players able to continue on to the NFL

Basketball example: which is a better program, Baylor or Syracuse? Can't argue with Baylor winning the national title, but it doesn't have the fan base, the facilities, or the longer term results the Orangemen have had.

Monmouth and Holy Cross have enjoyed good seasons of late. Would the average fan in Fargo or Frisco or Tallahassee consider them in the top 25? Probably not. 2,780 a game at Kessler Field in 2019 does not send the message of a top program.

[katss07]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Nicholls has been a consistent Top 25 team for about the last 4-5 years since Rebowe took over.
What I mean is Nicholls has 12 winning seasons since they became a D1 school 41 years ago, has a cool two playoff wins in that time span, and a single outright conference title. They usually suck, and the past 4 years doesn’t change the totality of their program enough for that to change, at least IMHO.

We’ll see how things look for the Colonels when Rebowe’s in Lafayette.

I’m just not sure I’d say Nicholls has a better program than McNeese or Southeastern Louisiana, who were not listed. I’ll take their programs over Nicholls’ even with the past 5 years’ results.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Here's the point--being a top 25 program is much more than wins. If it were, San Diego would be a top five program.

What defines a top program?

1. Recent and repeatable success that supports decades of prior excellence.
2. Consistent and reliable attendance
3. An investment in the sport, including facilities and investing in the the game day experience
4. Players able to continue on to the NFL

Basketball example: which is a better program, Baylor or Syracuse? Can't argue with Baylor winning the national title, but it doesn't have the fan base, the facilities, or the longer term results the Orangemen have had.

Monmouth and Holy Cross have enjoyed good seasons of late. Would the average fan in Fargo or Frisco or Tallahassee consider them in the top 25? Probably not. 2,780 a game at Kessler Field in 2019 does not send the message of a top program.

Well said. Just like if you were putting together list this in 2014 you wouldn't list Towson as a Top 10 FCS program just because they had one really nice run the year before.

[DFW HOYA]

Well said. Just like if you were putting together list this in 2014 you wouldn't list Towson as a Top 10 FCS program just because they had one really nice run the year before.

Thanks--I was going to mention Towson as an example.

Again, it's not that Holy Cross can't be a Top 25 program - they certainly can as opposed to, say, Georgetown - but it takes time.

[AmsterBison]

How will Curt Cignetti ever motivate his team now???

Screaming at them?

[nodak651]

1. HC finished the 2021 Spring season around #25 in most polls.
2. HC should be a lot better in the Fall....the Spring team was missing a lot of offensive weapons and working in a frosh QB.
3. Chesney has easily recruited (take it for what it is) in the Top 25 in the country the last couple of years.
4. HC has facilities second to none at the FCS level.
5. HC has a long history of doing very well at this level when they are allowed to have scholarships.

Holy Cross football was basically asleep/adrift from 1992-to the mid 2010s....saying HC isn't (or couldn't) be among the Top 25 programs of the FCS if they utilize the advantages they have correctly is just off-base.

How long ago was that history of "doing very well", exactly? Finishing "around" top 25 in 2021 and being "asleep/adrift" most of the last three decades doesn't exactly scream "top 25 program".

Prestige-wise, most definitely. If ranking program prestige, Holy Cross is easily top 25. Holy Cross could probably become a power rather easily if they really wanted to. Over the past 5 years, your best seasons seem to have been one game better than .500, except for this spring when you played only 3 regular season games - is that correct?

[gokat89]

I'm not sure it is midwest bias...Haley just hates Sam Houston. Always looking for ANY reason, valid or not, to downgrade us. He's a hack.

I am pretty sure Haley picked Sam Houston to lose in every playoff game in the spring except for the Monmouth game so I was pretty pleased the Kats proved him wrong.

[Sader87]

How long ago was that history of "doing very well", exactly? Finishing "around" top 25 in 2021 and being "asleep/adrift" most of the last three decades doesn't exactly scream "top 25 program".

Prestige-wise, most definitely. If ranking program prestige, Holy Cross is easily top 25. Holy Cross could probably become a power rather easily if they really wanted to. Over the past 5 years, your best seasons seem to have been one game better than .500, except for this spring when you played only 3 regular season games - is that correct?

Holy Cross was non-scholarship from 1992-mid 2010s....we were basically "out of our element"....with the return of scholarships and administrative/alumni support (Luth Facility etc) behind the football program, the elements are all there for HC to approximate where we were in the FCS in the '80s.

Yes, the PL is a drag on that to some extent...but I don't think it is as big as DFW and others make it out to be.

[WestCoastAggie]

You spelled Monmouth wrong @ 13.

Interesting.

[DEX]

No A&T in the top 25? I guess he feels like no way 3 Big South Conference teams should be ranked?

[Professor]

No A&T in the top 25? I guess he feels like no way 3 Big South Conference teams should be ranked?

I thought the Big South had earned some respect with the pollsters. Guess we all have to prove them wrong

[Daytripper]

I thought the Big South had earned some respect with the pollsters. Guess we all have to prove them wrong

Bulletin board material. It can't hurt.

[Serpentor]

If we’re including Nicholls on a Top 25 programs list, just go ahead and include Holy Cross AND Colgate.

If this was a poll of consistently greatest FCS programs then yes, the inclusion of Nicholls would be laughable. But it's a prediction of 2021 activity, so yes, programs that have been good lately should be included regardless of historical track record.

[Serpentor]

I'm not sure it is midwest bias...Haley just hates Sam Houston. Always looking for ANY reason, valid or not, to downgrade us. He's a hack.

Articles like this should come with a disclaimer: WARNING: The author is too biased to take seriously in any opinion other than recommending a pizza topping, and even then he's suspect.