Montana State in Sports Illustrated

[Old Montana State Grad]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/07/trouble.in.paradise0813/index.html

We lost a great coach when our athletic department quit funding a great mentorship and acclimation programxnonox

[james_lawfirm]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/07/trouble.in.paradise0813/index.html

We lost a great coach when our athletic department quit funding a great mentorship and acclimation programxnonox


Say what? That's not even funny.

[CopperCat]

Say what? That's not even funny.

Move along Mr. Nay-sayer......just move along.

[CatFan22]

I can't believe how false this article is!

"There are no Starbucks in Bozeman..."

Lies!!! :)

[GOKATS]

Say what? That's not even funny.

Read the entire article and then relate it to his post- there was nothing funny about it.

F'ing lawyers.................xnonox xrolleyesx

[GOKATS]

I can't believe how false this article is!

"There are no Starbucks in Bozeman..."

Lies!!! :)

Not that I care or would ever go there, but where in Bozemen is there a Starbucks? Bozeman is pretty small, but I will avoid certain areas given a good reason (such as having a Starbucks).xnodx

[CrazyCat]

This article isn't bad until the end.

"They should be giving those scholarships to farm boys," Kroon says.
Her feelings, which is to say the feelings of many in Bozeman, aren't likely to change soon.

Having lived in Bozeman for 20 years, this is the feelings of a very few.

[asu3peat]

This article isn't bad until the end.

"They should be giving those scholarships to farm boys," Kroon says.
Her feelings, which is to say the feelings of many in Bozeman, aren't likely to change soon.

Having lived in Bozeman for 20 years, this is the feelings of a very few.


I agree, that's not the brightest quote I've ever read. It's unfortunate that they couldn't get any funding for the FAMM organization, that seemed like a good idea. Also glad to see that Ash did some research on those recruit/transfers this past summer and none of them met his or the school's standards. He seems to be a class act, nice pick up for the university and athletic department. Hopefully you guys will still be able to recruit good athletes and better people in Cali and Florida. Good luck!

[james_lawfirm]

Read the entire article and then relate it to his post- there was nothing funny about it.

F'ing lawyers.................xnonox xrolleyesx


I did. F'ing Cats.

[asu3peat]

This article isn't bad until the end.

"They should be giving those scholarships to farm boys," Kroon says.
Her feelings, which is to say the feelings of many in Bozeman, aren't likely to change soon.

Having lived in Bozeman for 20 years, this is the feelings of a very few.


I agree, that's not the brightest quote I've ever read. It's unfortunate that they couldn't get any funding for the FAMM organization, that seemed like a good idea. Also glad to see that Ash did some research on those recruit/transfers this past summer and none of them met his or the school's standards. He seems to be a class act, nice pick up for the university and athletic department. Hopefully you guys will still be able to recruit good athletes and better people in Cali and Florida. Good luck!

[Cleets]

I can't believe how false this article is!

"There are no Starbucks in Bozeman..."

Lies!!! :)

True..!!!
Zero Starbucks in Bozeman (there are 6 in Missoula) according to my sources... xlolx

[Cap'n Cat]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/07/trouble.in.paradise0813/index.html

We lost a great coach when our athletic department quit funding a great mentorship and acclimation programxnonox

Jesus, what a story................xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

Anyone kicked out of Bozeman would likely find open arms in Macomb, IL.

:p :p :p :p :p

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Race-baiting alert:


The accused have had two things in common: All are African-American and from faraway states such as California and Florida. As Kroon and others see it, the university's athletic department has been importing crime to an idyllic mountain setting. The website Deadspin.com joked that Montana State was bringing Tony Montanas to Montana. Wrote Kroon, "They're destroying the quality of life and general peace of mind in my hometown."

...

If Montana State continues to bring in black, urban athletes, it must find ways to integrate them into a community that is 95% white, and where, given the events of the last year, even residents like Ashley Kroon believe the town is better off without them.

Read into it as I can, there is NOTHING that Ms. Kroon says in the article that says that she wrote the local paper because the perpetrators in this particular crime a BLACK. As if COCAINE had nothing to do with her comments, but RACE did.

If you take out the invented racism in Ms Kroon's comments, the whole "race war" part of the article falls apart.

Also:


If a player didn't go to a four-year college out of high school, or did go but wanted to leave a year or two later, it's often because of bad behavior or poor academics.

Bull. More likely, it's due to the fact that they're stuck behind a future pro player, or the coach isn't giving them playing time.


Some minority athletes recruited from urban areas have thrived in Bozeman. John Taylor, from Denver, graduated in 2002 and went on to play two years as an NFL defensive end before returning with his wife. He is now an assistant in student-athlete services at the school. But it has also been common for an out-of-state player to be kicked out of school or leave a team well before his eligibility expired. The most recent six-year graduation rate, for the freshman class that entered in 1999-2000, was a mere 21% for football and 33% for basketball. Under the new NCAA benchmarks known as the Graduation Success Rate (GSR) and the Academic Progress Rate (APR), there is no breakdown based solely on transfers. But in 2003, the last year such figures were available, 2% of Montana State's football transfers and 13% of its basketball transfers graduated. The rate for black transfers in both sports: 0%.

More race-baiting here, inventing the statistic "black transfers" to show that even though the 2%/13% numbers are BAD, the 0% is WORSE. xrolleyesx

And is it COMMON for an out-of-state player to be *kicked out of school*? I question if it's common. There have been problems with the law, some kids not graduating - and others who drop their senior semester to try for the NFL draft, who transfer back to their schools of origin to graduate with their former teammates.

Overall, it's yet another misinformed, sensationalistic, race-baiting article by Sports Illustrated that involved the interview of one Bozeman resident, a few comments about race (to underscore their "point" about race), some ill-informed "facts/lies" about transfer students and some phone interviews with school officials and cops. The truth of the matter is much more complex than that. But articles like this are dangerous, perpetuating the stereotypes that not only are transfers are a horrible thing to the Fabric of Society, but especially if they're African-American and come from Urban Areas.

Montana State should not get a free pass for letting their athletics department get so mixed up in crime, getting bad human beings on their teams and all that. But SI is making it sound that it's endemic to ALL schools with transfers - especially African-American ones - which is heinously untrue. xmadx

[trouthunter]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/07/trouble.in.paradise0813/index.html

We lost a great coach when our athletic department quit funding a great mentorship and acclimation programxnonox



You lost a great coach??? 40-43

I am a Griz fan, but without sounding flippant, I would love for a cat fan to explain the undeterred support of Mike Kramer. The man lost three more games than he won during his tenure at MSU.

It seemed that during the interviews I read/watched when he did muster a win, it was his doing, but he always found fault with others when the cats lost.

[Old Montana State Grad]

You lost a great coach??? 40-43

I am a Griz fan, but without sounding flippant, I would love for a cat fan to explain the undeterred support of Mike Kramer. The man lost three more games than he won during his tenure at MSU.

It seemed that during the interviews I read/watched when he did muster a win, it was his doing, but he always found fault with others when the cats lost.

Well, striperbait, "I am a fizzled-out-again fan"...and Eastern Kentucky wannabe record breaker..., by virtue of your "loyalties" (as long as you're winning anyway) you sure jumped at the chance to hire him for more than he was offered by MSU when he left EWUxlolx

He's a great coach and a great man. Leave it to you and yours to want to kick a man when he's down. Isn't there a junior high or city rec team you're supposed to be watching right now?

[GOKATS]

You lost a great coach??? 40-43

I am a Griz fan, but without sounding flippant, I would love for a cat fan to explain the undeterred support of Mike Kramer. The man lost three more games than he won during his tenure at MSU.

It seemed that during the interviews I read/watched when he did muster a win, it was his doing, but he always found fault with others when the cats lost.

Kramer beat the griz 3 out of the last 5 years- that'll garner you all the support you need as a coach from 'Cat fans.

[Grizzaholic]

Did anybody else notice that Kroon isn't half bad?

[SoCon48]

"As Kroon and others see it, the university's athletic department has been importing crime to an idyllic mountain setting"

WOW!

[Cap'n Cat]

I don't sense any race-baiting. I see it as a sound statement based on tangible fact. The adjustments of urban athletes to rural settings is a long-documented issue. What if the problem were with Samoans? Or surfer dude QB's from SoCal?

She's just telling it like it is. If there had been no problems, she would not have to make such a statement.

For a society which talks a big game about "speaking frankly", it's disconcerting to see some fall back on tired sensitivities.

More power to her. She's an advocate for her community and I'm sure she's not hiding a closet of pointy hoods.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't sense any race-baiting. I see it as a sound statement based on tangible fact. The adjustments of urban athletes to rural settings is a long-documented issue. What if the problem were with Samoans? Or surfer dude QB's from SoCal?

She's just telling it like it is. If there had been no problems, she would not have to make such a statement.

For a society which talks a big game about "speaking frankly", it's disconcerting to see some fall back on tired sensitivities.

Please explain to me where Ms. Kroon talks specifically about race relations in her own statements:


"How far are we, as individuals and most importantly as a community, going to let this deplorable behavior on behalf of the athletic department at MSU go?" Kroon wrote. "Shame on us as a community for not being more outspoken, for not holding the school accountable long ago."

None here. Holding the school accountable for drug issues, sure. Holding the school accountable for having African-American athletes? Nowhere.


As Kroon and others see it, the university's athletic department has been importing crime to an idyllic mountain setting. The website Deadspin.com joked that Montana State was bringing Tony Montanas to Montana. Wrote Kroon, "They're destroying the quality of life and general peace of mind in my hometown."

None here. "[Drug dealers] are destroying the quality of life and general peace of mind in my hometown." Nowhere does it say that it's black people she's talking about.


If Montana State continues to bring in black, urban athletes, it must find ways to integrate them into a community that is 95% white, and where, given the events of the last year, even residents like Ashley Kroon believe the town is better off without them.

This is assumed by the author - and is a huge (dare I say) racist leap by the author.


"They should be giving those scholarships to farm boys," Kroon says.

Again, race isn't specifically mentioned.

My beef is not with her at all. My beef is with the author, who blew up her comments into some sort of racial fault line in the world. She never said that the town was better off without black people. She said that the town was better off without drug problems, which every citizen of the United States believes.

[Mort]

Bigger picture view: This is the sort of national media attention MSU has opened itself up to as a result of all the problems. Get used to it, MSU faithful, because it's going to keep popping up over and over again for the next several years.

Look at the media coverage the Northern Colorado stabbing case is getting. What do you think it will be like when a couple of these MSU-related trials begin? I wouldn't be surprised if SI is back in town, along with ESPN, CNN, MSNBC and who knows who else.

This isn't going to go away any time soon.

[Cap'n Cat]

Please explain to me where Ms. Kroon talks specifically about race relations in her own statements:



None here. Holding the school accountable for drug issues, sure. Holding the school accountable for having African-American athletes? Nowhere.



None here. "[Drug dealers] are destroying the quality of life and general peace of mind in my hometown." Nowhere does it say that it's black people she's talking about.



This is assumed by the author - and is a huge (dare I say) racist leap by the author.



Again, race isn't specifically mentioned.

My beef is not with her at all. My beef is with the author, who blew up her comments into some sort of racial fault line in the world. She never said that the town was better off without black people. She said that the town was better off without drug problems, which every citizen of the United States believes.


Greatly value your opinion, Nation, but I think you're the one making any sort of leap here. You seem to be looking for the race thing.

The fact of the matter still is, at least to me, that urban, or just plain black, athletes often have trouble adjusting to the climate (sociologically) of a rural environment. Montana's gotta be worse, too, due to it's geographical distance from major population centers or, well, anything.

Kroon is right. And the author seems just to be presenting in a frank manner. Nothing more. We can't be so sensitive to these things, otherwise the dialogue surrounding them takes avenues of no value.

But that's my opinion and yours is solid, too.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

I witnessed Montana State and their "antics" during last season's playoff game against App State. I'm pushing 60, a former high school coach and have seen many games at many locations, big and small, and the things they did - taunting App players during pre-game warm-ups, taunting the fans before and during the game I had never witnessed previously. Their punt returner (#1 Wheaton, I believe) fielding punts during pregame and running them across midfield into App State's half of the field and weaving in and out of App's drills running his mouth the entire time - another time running 70 yards into the ASU zone to get in the face of a couple of ASU players just doing their stretching and of course, let's not forget the mouthing and cheap-shots during the game by numerous players. Unfortunately the Mountaineers got suckered into some retaliation penalties. I could go on and on. The point being that while none of these actions were criminal behavior it did point out that the head coach and assistants who were on the field the entire time could have put a stop to this juvenile behavior IMMEDIATELY. By choosing not to, they then supported it. I was not surprised to later read about some real problems within the program. To me it showed a total lack of discipline and class from the MSU coaching staff. Coaches CAN STOP this behavior if they choose to do so. Those of us who follow App State are treated to a head coach with as much class as any coach anywhere. Of course the final score of ASU-38 MSU-17 certainly shows the effectiveness of the "antics"

[trouthunter]

Kramer beat the griz 3 out of the last 5 years- that'll garner you all the support you need as a coach from 'Cat fans.


THANK YOU for a straight up answer. I have been wondering what the attraction with Kramer has been since I watched the Chadron State game last season. (The Griz game was only broadcast on the web, so I could watch both at the same time.)

How do you think that Ash is doing thus far?

[AZGrizFan]

I witnessed Montana State and their "antics" during last season's playoff game against App State. I'm pushing 60, a former high school coach and have seen many games at many locations, big and small, and the things they did - taunting App players during pre-game warm-ups, taunting the fans before and during the game I had never witnessed previously. Their punt returner (#1 Wheaton, I believe) fielding punts during pregame and running them across midfield into App State's half of the field and weaving in and out of App's drills running his mouth the entire time - another time running 70 yards into the ASU zone to get in the face of a couple of ASU players just doing their stretching and of course, let's not forget the mouthing and cheap-shots during the game by numerous players. Unfortunately the Mountaineers got suckered into some retaliation penalties. I could go on and on. The point being that while none of these actions were criminal behavior it did point out that the head coach and assistants who were on the field the entire time could have put a stop to this juvenile behavior IMMEDIATELY. By choosing not to, they then supported it. I was not surprised to later read about some real problems within the program. To me it showed a total lack of discipline and class from the MSU coaching staff. Coaches CAN STOP this behavior if they choose to do so. Those of us who follow App State are treated to a head coach with as much class as any coach anywhere. Of course the final score of ASU-38 MSU-17 certainly shows the effectiveness of the "antics"


Well, it took 3 pages and 22 posts, but we finally got to the "I was there at the ASU/MSU game and saw these thugs and they got what they deserved and the program is in shambles and it's no wonder we kicked their asses with our choir boys" post.

You App fans are gettin' slow.

Perhaps the final score was more indicative of the fact that ASU has better FOOTBALL players, than related to anything to do with the antics. Naaaaaahhhhh, that couldn't be it, could it? xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[AZGrizFan]

Kramer beat the griz 3 out of the last 5 years- that'll garner you all the support you need as a coach from 'Cat fans.

And yet I was ridiculed for making that same basic statement on the "NC or victory over Michgan" thread regarding the Bobcats.

xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[Cap'n Cat]

Well, it took 3 pages and 22 posts, but we finally got to the "I was there at the ASU/MSU game and saw these thugs and they got what they deserved and the program is in shambles and it's no wonder we kicked their asses with our choir boys" post.

You App fans are gettin' slow.

Perhaps the final score was more indicative of the fact that ASU has better FOOTBALL players, than related to anything to do with the antics. Naaaaaahhhhh, that couldn't be it, could it? xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx


Exactly, Z. This WVAPP guy stumbles into a major whiff in his first post.

Time to go back to DoraTheExplorer.com


xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[DuckDuckGriz]

THANK YOU for a straight up answer. I have been wondering what the attraction with Kramer has been since I watched the Chadron State game last season. (The Griz game was only broadcast on the web, so I could watch both at the same time.)

How do you think that Ash is doing thus far?

Nevermind the off-the-field stuff that went on, the mouthing off problems with Kramer, the discipline on the field, the mediocre record....

Cat fans are so obsessed with the Griz they'd rather see them go 0-11 than see their own team win a national championship. xsmhx

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Well I actually said none of your quote other than I was there -

"Well, it took 3 pages and 22 posts, but we finally got to the "I was there at the ASU/MSU game and saw these thugs and they got what they deserved and the program is in shambles and it's no wonder we kicked their asses with our choir boys" post."

So I guess you already had that response in your head - wonder why? -- And YES, the Mountaineers were the superior team ---

[AZGrizFan]

Well I actually said none of your quote other than I was there -

"Well, it took 3 pages and 22 posts, but we finally got to the "I was there at the ASU/MSU game and saw these thugs and they got what they deserved and the program is in shambles and it's no wonder we kicked their asses with our choir boys" post."

So I guess you already had that response in your head - wonder why? -- And YES, the Mountaineers were the superior team ---

Don't start backpedalling already....Christ, you've only made two posts! You know damned well that's EXACTLY what you meant...I just boiled down your ramblings to the salient points. You could have just made this last statement and been right on target, but instead feel the need to constantly pile on. Can't wait until the shoe's on the other foot. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Gee I didn't realize that the "number of posts" made one smarter --- If you will put down your bias and re-read my first "post" you should see that my point was that the MSU coaching staff allowed the "antics" - which to me was a sign of general lack of discipline - I only pointed out a couple of instances for those who didn't witness it personally. I clearly laid the blame on the head coach and never referred to your players as "thugs" - that was your word. What are you trying to defend here?

[AZGrizFan]

Gee I didn't realize that the "number of posts" made one smarter --- If you will put down your bias and re-read my first "post" you should see that my point was that the MSU coaching staff allowed the "antics" - which to me was a sign of general lack of discipline - I only pointed out a couple of instances for those who didn't witness it personally. I clearly laid the blame on the head coach and never referred to your players as "thugs" - that was your word. What are you trying to defend here?

I'm not defending anything. Just commenting on the same old, tired response from an App fan regarding anything to do with MSU and their player troubles. And as I said, App fans are gettin' slow. If you'd been around here longer you realize that your response has been duplicated probably about 40 times...and THAT's what makes it old and tired and VEEERRRYY predictable.

[Mort]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOKATS
Kramer beat the griz 3 out of the last 5 years- that'll garner you all the support you need as a coach from 'Cat fans.



THANK YOU for a straight up answer. I have been wondering what the attraction with Kramer has been since I watched the Chadron State game last season. (The Griz game was only broadcast on the web, so I could watch both at the same time.)

How do you think that Ash is doing thus far?

Well, all the support you need as coach from some Cat fans anyway. Others of us were looking at and wondering about other aspects of the football program such as the lost scholarship issue/APR problem and the report ordered by the MSU president that was released last winter, but were chastised for it - like I'll probably be after this post.

As for Ash, he swung and missed on his first disciplinary issue as far as I'm concerned. In regard to other issues, he seems to have done a very good job of assembling a quality staff under difficult circumstances and in little time. It appears that organization is a strong suit, which usually means discipline. Hopefully the discipline aspect will be absorbed by the entire program, both on and off the field.

[The Moody1]

If you'd been around here longer you realize that your response has been duplicated probably about 40 times...and THAT's what makes it old and tired and VEEERRRYY predictable.

The same can be said about your responses.

[Cap'n Cat]

Gee I didn't realize that the "number of posts" made one smarter --- If you will put down your bias and re-read my first "post" you should see that my point was that the MSU coaching staff allowed the "antics" - which to me was a sign of general lack of discipline - I only pointed out a couple of instances for those who didn't witness it personally. I clearly laid the blame on the head coach and never referred to your players as "thugs" - that was your word. What are you trying to defend here?

APPMouseketeer,
Clearly, you are one of those simpletons who believe coaches know all that is going on in the lives of every player under his charge. Very naive.
The notion of personal accountability dictates that those clowns who got in trouble did so of their own volition and by their own unlawful actions. A coach, boss, even a parent cannot be present at all hours of the day, nor can he or she be party to every phone call, e-mail message or other communication or witness each act in the daily life of a subordinate.
That it all seems to happen at this place or that at a particular time in history is nothing more than pure anomaly and happenstance. It can and may happen at App State, too, friend.

xcoffeex

[SoCon48]

APPMouseketeer,
Clearly, you are one of those simpletons who believe coaches know all that is going on in the lives of every player under his charge. Very naive.
The notion of personal accountability dictates that those clowns who got in trouble did so of their own volition and by their own unlawful actions. A coach, boss, even a parent cannot be present at all hours of the day, nor can he or she be party to every phone call, e-mail message or other communication or witness each act in the daily life of a subordinate.
That it all seems to happen at this place or that at a particular time in history is nothing more than pure anomaly and happenstance. It can and may happen at App State, too, friend.

xcoffeex








He was talking about at the game. Not all hours of the night, etc:

I witnessed Montana State and their "antics" during last season's playoff game against App State. I'm pushing 60, a former high school coach and have seen many games at many locations, big and small, and the things they did - taunting App players during pre-game warm-ups, taunting the fans before and during the game I had never witnessed previously.

And as he said, he is a former coach and I am also. Believe me, even if the coach doesn't see it, he will find out within minutes and it's his duty to take the proper steps to correct it. Otherwise at most schools, he will be in the Chancellor or Principal's office first thing Monday morning if not sooner and signing a written reprimand and warning. Later, at season's end, it might get rather hairy for the coach.
Antics like this are very often, if not usually, signs of things to come off the field.
And yes, you're right, they can happen at any school, even like you said, at App State. They did and were corrected by the staff. Some had to leave the program. It may happen again, but won't be tolerated under the present staff and administration.
We can rationalize all we want, but things have to be dealt with no matter which player it might be.
Too, this is not the smack forum, so it seems calling a poster a simpleton is out of line.

[james_lawfirm]

He was talking about at the game. Not all hours of the night, etc:

I witnessed Montana State and their "antics" during last season's playoff game against App State. I'm pushing 60, a former high school coach and have seen many games at many locations, big and small, and the things they did - taunting App players during pre-game warm-ups, taunting the fans before and during the game I had never witnessed previously.

And as he said, he is a former coach and I am also. Believe me, even if the coach doesn't see it, he will find out within minutes and it's his duty to take the proper steps to correct it. Otherwise at most schools, he will be in the Chancellor or Principal's office first thing Monday morning if not sooner and signing a written reprimand and warning. Later, at season's end, it might get rather hairy for the coach.
Antics like this are very often, if not usually, signs of things to come off the field.
And yes, you're right, they can happen at any school, even like you said, at App State. They did and were corrected by the staff. Some had to leave the program. It may happen again, but won't be tolerated under the present staff and administration.
We can rationalize all we want, but things have to be dealt with no matter which player it might be.
Too, this is not the smack forum, so it seems calling a poster a simpleton is out of line.


Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen.

[Cap'n Cat]

So sorry. Is "old simpleton" better?

Talking about the game or not, he feels exactly as I describe.

xrolleyesx

[lizrdgizrd]

Did anybody else notice that Kroon isn't half bad?

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/07/trouble.in.paradise0813/p1_kroon.jpg

[STACCATS]

You know what kills me about you app fans, and the newbie certainly pointed it out again.

It was ok for App state players to get personal foul penalties during the game, after all they were only retaliating to MSU's taunts. I guess two wrongs do make a right in them there mountains.

Hardly choir boy material as you make them out to be musketeer.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Thanks to my friends out there who can actually comprehend what they read - Yes, you can call me Old and hey, it doesn't bother me that YOU think I'm a simpleton. I'm just impressed that with 13,561 posts I can, like you, become a genius AND a mind-reader - WOW - I do have a long way to go ---

[Keeper]

MSU's problems have generated headlines for months
above any other FCS school. No surprise then that a
national article has focused on their ills. It's almost like
a BCS football factory dumped their pollution on a tiny
innocent village. Thank you tabloid society. As the MSU
trials have sorely stuck out on the athletic landscape,
shouldn't we ask whether this is the more of the norm?
I'm thinking yes. So what should we do about it?

Stop playing the blame game. Let's be accountable
for our actions. Proactive rather than reactive.
Refrain from chiding those who are proud of their
well-behaved & succesful programs, as they should be
applauded for their hard work and ethical standards,
stressing character and hard work over short-cuts
and blind ambition.

Montana State Univ has initiated a difficult yet positive
new direction. It may or may not result in football success.
With plenty of blame to go around, they have taken the
responsible steps. It would be nice if SI and other media
members could give us more insight and coverage of other
positive stories, but it seems that good news is no news.

Lately it seems that the ginormous programs are continually
afflicted with errant athletes, police blotters and sanctions,
and the general response is "that's the way it is" or "the price
of winning in big business football". MSU and the people of
Bozeman dare to say "we can be better than that". Awesome.

I am so sick of racial-sensitive feedback, whether it's white
comfort zones or black circle-the-wagon issues. We have
ever growing problems with a society that is largely tolerant
yet oblivious to its causes or solutions. The tone of the SI article
sadly reflects our inability to care and our unwillingness to
help make a difference. Instead, it is still easier to take sides
and cry foul, or slap labels on that which we can faster digest.

Good sportsmanship and leading by example are surely diminishing
from major athletics. College is an instrument for the advancement
of the human race, not a pit-stop on the quick-buck highway.
The time is now to reaffirm just what our educational services
mean to us. Football is entertainment. Teaching teamwork
and social awareness will reward all of us. Respect is a two-way
street.

That's my two cents. Now go ahead and put down my post if
that makes you feel better. Be critical if that is your only
function. Sneer at others like myself who think moral guidance
is still important in this world. I still have confidence in the
vast majority of our student-athletes to be productive citizens,
and I would like to see our schools protect and value that.

Probably a thread killer anyway, eh?
Allrighty then, I'm ready for some football, dammit.

[AZGrizFan]

The same can be said about your responses.

Go back and play with your Tonka trucks, junior. xrolleyesx

[AZGrizFan]

WOW - I do have a long way to go ---


Yes, yes you do. xnodx xnodx xnodx

[AZGrizFan]

MSU's problems have generated headlines for months
above any other FCS school. No surprise then that a
national article has focused on their ills. It's almost like
a BCS football factory dumped their pollution on a tiny
innocent village. Thank you tabloid society. As the MSU
trials have sorely stuck out on the athletic landscape,
shouldn't we ask whether this is the more of the norm?
I'm thinking yes. So what should we do about it?

Stop playing the blame game. Let's be accountable
for our actions. Proactive rather than reactive.
Refrain from chiding those who are proud of their
well-behaved & succesful programs, as they should be
applauded for their hard work and ethical standards,
stressing character and hard work over short-cuts
and blind ambition.

Montana State Univ has initiated a difficult yet positive
new direction. It may or may not result in football success.
With plenty of blame to go around, they have taken the
responsible steps. It would be nice if SI and other media
members could give us more insight and coverage of other
positive stories, but it seems that good news is no news.

Lately it seems that the ginormous programs are continually
afflicted with errant athletes, police blotters and sanctions,
and the general response is "that's the way it is" or "the price
of winning in big business football". MSU and the people of
Bozeman dare to say "we can be better than that". Awesome.

I am so sick of racial-sensitive feedback, whether it's white
comfort zones or black circle-the-wagon issues. We have
ever growing problems with a society that is largely tolerant
yet oblivious to its causes or solutions. The tone of the SI article
sadly reflects our inability to care and our unwillingness to
help make a difference. Instead, it is still easier to take sides
and cry foul, or slap labels on that which we can faster digest.

Good sportsmanship and leading by example are surely diminishing
from major athletics. College is an instrument for the advancement
of the human race, not a pit-stop on the quick-buck highway.
The time is now to reaffirm just what our educational services
mean to us. Football is entertainment. Teaching teamwork
and social awareness will reward all of us. Respect is a two-way
street.

That's my two cents. Now go ahead and put down my post if
that makes you feel better. Be critical if that is your only
function. Sneer at others like myself who think moral guidance
is still important in this world. I still have confidence in the
vast majority of our student-athletes to be productive citizens,
and I would like to see our schools protect and value that.

Probably a thread killer anyway, eh?
Allrighty then, I'm ready for some football, dammit.

Nice post, except for the highlighted part. If "those who are proud of their well-behaved and successful programs" didn't delight so much in kicking an institution when it was down, we might ALL shut up. Unfortunately, they DO delight in it, but when it happens to them---and it ultimately WILL happen at some point, count on it----they'll also be the first to attempt to minimize the importance and deflect blame and justify the presence of the offending players....

It's easy to criticize, people. Just be careful of casting stones that may come hurling back in your direction when the shoe's on the other foot. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[Keeper]

Agreed, Mr GrizFan, but are you talking generally or
specifically some other posters. Anyway, as I said,
one should be accountable for their actions (or reactions).

[james_lawfirm]

You know what kills me about you app fans, and the newbie certainly pointed it out again.

It was ok for App state players to get personal foul penalties during the game, after all they were only retaliating to MSU's taunts. I guess two wrongs do make a right in them there mountains.

Hardly choir boy material as you make them out to be musketeer.


Go back and watch the game, if you have it on tape. ESPN's cameras caught the "antics". Most all of ASU's personal fouls were retaliations for personal fouls of MSU players which went unnoticed by the refs.

You are assuming that ASU has had this stuff happen before. I have been to App games for the last 20 years, and I have never seen such behavior on the field. In my opinion, App fans and posters are completely justified for blaming MSU's players' behavior here.

Are we a bunch of choir boys when faced with a bunch of hooligans misbehaving and taunting us? Nope. Our ONLY problem with that game was that MSU's behavior caught the coaching staff (and the players) COMPLETELY off guard. We did actually win that game by a significant margin.

If you could have listened to the message given by the coaches during the next week, I'll guarantee that it was that our players were to simply point to the scoreboard should any untoward behavior occur. As further evidence of MSU's misbehavior, I also point to YSU's behavior the very next week. A finer team that exhibited good sportsmanship could not be found (in complete contrast to MSU, I might add). ASU had very few, if any, personal fouls called in that game.

In sum, phbbphbbphbbphbbphbb to you fellers defending MSU's behavior in that playoff game in Boone.

[NE MT GRIZZ]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/07/trouble.in.paradise0813/p1_kroon.jpg

It looks like the Cap'n left one of his piss jars in the Bozeman area.
xeekx xeekx

[lizrdgizrd]

You know what kills me about you app fans, and the newbie certainly pointed it out again.

It was ok for App state players to get personal foul penalties during the game, after all they were only retaliating to MSU's taunts. I guess two wrongs do make a right in them there mountains.

Hardly choir boy material as you make them out to be musketeer.
Yeah, all of us App fans sure do endorse those personal fouls. xrolleyesx

The fact is that our players got goaded and were wrong to respond in kind. It sucks that several of your former players are thugs but it's a coach's responsibility to make sure that they behave themselves while they're on the field at least. xpeacex

[AZGrizFan]

Agreed, Mr GrizFan, but are you talking generally or
specifically some other posters. Anyway, as I said,
one should be accountable for their actions (or reactions).

I'm talking about the predictable response, this time given by Mousekateer and now followed up by James_Lawfirm, about what a bunch of hooligans MSU players are blah blah blah blah blah.

It's apparent that MSU finally got it. They fired their coach at probably the worst possible time of the year, from a timing standpoint. The AD is most likely on thin ice. What else would you have them do? Repeatedly dredging up the past smacks of infantile juvenile behavior. We get it----the MSU players misbehaved. They didn't show much class. Fine. But for the love of GOD and all that is holy, GET OVER IT! It's a very "ne-ner-ne-ner-ne-ner we've got scoreboard you suck and your players are bullies" response and it comes up EVERY time the issue of player behavior is discussed with regards to MSU.

Just gets old.

[lizrdgizrd]

Just be careful of casting stones that may come hurling back in your direction when the shoe's on the other foot.
That is a well crafted mashup of clichés! xthumbsupx

You must spread the love before repping AZGrizFan again.

[AZGrizFan]

That is a well crafted mashup of clichés! xthumbsupx


Thank you, I thought so too.

Remember, one game at a time, taking it day by day, play each game as they come, work hard and good things will happen to those who wait with baited breath for the shoe to fall on the other foot up your a** with a ham sandwich.

[mlbowl]

Thank you, I thought so too.

Remember, one game at a time, taking it day by day, play each game as they come, work hard and good things will happen to those who wait with baited breath for the shoe to fall on the other foot up your a** with a ham sandwich.

LMFAO!xlolx

[Keeper]

I too am amazed at the constant bashing and venom.
Don't like it. Be an example, take the high road. (Dang, another cliche!)

[AZGrizFan]

I too am amazed at the constant bashing and venom.
Don't like it. Be an example, take the high road. (Dang, another cliche!)


I'll try to work that one in. :D

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lately it seems that the ginormous programs are continually
afflicted with errant athletes, police blotters and sanctions,
and the general response is "that's the way it is" or "the price
of winning in big business football". MSU and the people of
Bozeman dare to say "we can be better than that". Awesome.

I am so sick of racial-sensitive feedback, whether it's white
comfort zones or black circle-the-wagon issues. We have
ever growing problems with a society that is largely tolerant
yet oblivious to its causes or solutions. The tone of the SI article
sadly reflects our inability to care and our unwillingness to
help make a difference. Instead, it is still easier to take sides
and cry foul, or slap labels on that which we can faster digest.

I'm confused about the highlighted text. Are you saying that the author doesn't really care about the issue, and is trying to be sensationalistic to sell magazines?

If that's what you're saying, then I 100% agree. I feel like the author slapped a label on this as a "white Paradise ruined by African-American Transfer Students" that was unfair and racist.

If you're saying that I'm "taking sides and crying foul", it's because I think it's wrong to make Montana State's troubles into a black/white issue. (And somehow tying it to transfer students is particularly asinine, and completely unproven by facts.) If you read the article, it seems like the logical course of action is to stop taking in transfer students "from Urban Areas" in California or Florida. Why should I xrolleyesx and think this is not damaging to MSU, the BSC and FCS in general? It is. I think it is a reckless article.

[AZGrizFan]

I'm confused about the highlighted text. Are you saying that the author doesn't really care about the issue, and is trying to be sensationalistic to sell magazines?

If that's what you're saying, then I 100% agree. I feel like the author slapped a label on this as a "white Paradise ruined by African-American Transfer Students" that was unfair and racist.

If you're saying that I'm "taking sides and crying foul", it's because I think it's wrong to make Montana State's troubles into a black/white issue. (And somehow tying it to transfer students is particularly asinine, and completely unproven by facts.) If you read the article, it seems like the logical course of action is to stop taking in transfer students "from Urban Areas" in California or Florida. Why should I xrolleyesx and think this is not damaging to MSU, the BSC and FCS in general? It is. I think it is a reckless article.

I agree.

[james_lawfirm]

I'm talking about the predictable response, this time given by Mousekateer and now followed up by James_Lawfirm, about what a bunch of hooligans MSU players are blah blah blah blah blah.

It's apparent that MSU finally got it. They fired their coach at probably the worst possible time of the year, from a timing standpoint. The AD is most likely on thin ice. What else would you have them do? Repeatedly dredging up the past smacks of infantile juvenile behavior. We get it----the MSU players misbehaved. They didn't show much class. Fine. But for the love of GOD and all that is holy, GET OVER IT! It's a very "ne-ner-ne-ner-ne-ner we've got scoreboard you suck and your players are bullies" response and it comes up EVERY time the issue of player behavior is discussed with regards to MSU.

Just gets old.


OK, fine. I promise I will never again respond to anything anyone claiming to be a supporter of MSU says regarding ASU. Happy?

[CatFan22]

Not that I care or would ever go there, but where in Bozemen is there a Starbucks? Bozeman is pretty small, but I will avoid certain areas given a good reason (such as having a Starbucks).xnodx


True..!!!
Zero Starbucks in Bozeman (there are 6 in Missoula) according to my sources... xlolx

There's one in the mall.

[AZGrizFan]

OK, fine. I promise I will never again respond to anything anyone claiming to be a supporter of MSU says regarding ASU. Happy?

You can respond to anything you want to, but if you insist on beating that tired argument to death, expect to be called on it, that's all.

[AZGrizFan]

There's one in the mall.

Well, then the entire articles premise is suspect. xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx ;)

[CatFan22]

Well, then the entire articles premise is suspect. xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx ;)

Exactly! xlolx

[GOKATS]

There's one in the mall.

I wasn't aware of that- I hit the mall a few times a year, but I'm always headed to a particular store, not strolling so I've never seen it. Too bad, I was always proud of the fact that Bozeman hadn't bought in to 'yuppy' coffee.

[saccat]

I wasn't aware of that- I hit the mall a few times a year, but I'm always headed to a particular store, not strolling so I've never seen it. Too bad, I was always proud of the fact that Bozeman hadn't bought in to 'yuppy' coffee.

It's in the Barnes and Noble.

[CrazyCat]

Wow, I have never seen such support from Griz fans, Thanks. Personally I'd take that cowboy belt of the "why don't they leave when their done" chick and spank her repeatedly.

[Old Montana State Grad]

It's in the Barnes and Noble.

Ah, that explains it! We're busy living our life and writing our own books while others wish to read about others adventuresxlolx

[Tod]

Ah, that explains it! We're busy living our life and writing our own books while others wish to read about others adventuresxlolx

Reading is bad! xnonono2x

[Hansel]

It's in the Barnes and Noble.
technically it isn't a stabucks, but just a venue which serves starbuck's coffee, they don't take certain starbucks coupons, gift cards etc

[CatFan22]

technically it isn't a stabucks, but just a venue which serves starbuck's coffee, they don't take certain starbucks coupons, gift cards etc

There's still a Starbucks sign. That tells me: "Starbucks."
Why am I arguing this? xrotatehx

[AZGrizFan]

There's still a Starbucks sign. That tells me: "Starbucks."
Why am I arguing this? xrotatehx

Because in the great scheme of things, when you finally have a Starbucks, you've "made it" as a community. xnodx xnodx xnodx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xwhistlex

[CatFan22]

Because in the great scheme of things, when you finally have a Starbucks, you've "made it" as a community. xnodx xnodx xnodx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xwhistlex

That actually made me smile. :) xthumbsupx

[Grizalltheway]

Ah, that explains it! We're busy living our life and writing our own books while others wish to read about others adventuresxlolx

Hey, it's okay man, lots of people from your generation grew up without learning how to read. xwhistlex

[mlbowl]

Because in the great scheme of things, when you finally have a Starbucks, you've "made it" as a community. xnodx xnodx xnodx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xwhistlex


You're on a frickin roll today AZxlolx :D xlolx

[CopperCat]

Go back and watch the game, if you have it on tape. ESPN's cameras caught the "antics". Most all of ASU's personal fouls were retaliations for personal fouls of MSU players which went unnoticed by the refs.

You are assuming that ASU has had this stuff happen before. I have been to App games for the last 20 years, and I have never seen such behavior on the field. In my opinion, App fans and posters are completely justified for blaming MSU's players' behavior here.

Are we a bunch of choir boys when faced with a bunch of hooligans misbehaving and taunting us? Nope. Our ONLY problem with that game was that MSU's behavior caught the coaching staff (and the players) COMPLETELY off guard. We did actually win that game by a significant margin.

If you could have listened to the message given by the coaches during the next week, I'll guarantee that it was that our players were to simply point to the scoreboard should any untoward behavior occur. As further evidence of MSU's misbehavior, I also point to YSU's behavior the very next week. A finer team that exhibited good sportsmanship could not be found (in complete contrast to MSU, I might add). ASU had very few, if any, personal fouls called in that game.

In sum, phbbphbbphbbphbbphbb to you fellers defending MSU's behavior in that playoff game in Boone.

Blah blah blah blah

The game is over, you have your trophy, and those "problem players" are gone. Enough said about this.

[BgJag]

While Montana State athletes had been in trouble with the law before -- in 2005 a former Bobcats point guard served a 90-day jail term for raping a 15-year-old girl; in '04 an assistant football coach was sentenced to four years in jail for dealing methamphetamines -- the number and severity of the latest misdeeds were, to Bozemanites, beyond comprehension. The accused have had two things in common: All are African-American and from faraway states such as California and Florida.

Joe O'Brien?

[saccat]

Joe O'Brien?

Yes that was him. When you read that it sounds like they are saying O'Brien was an African-American, but he isn't. This whole article makes me sick.

[AZGrizFan]

You're on a frickin roll today AZxlolx :D xlolx


Thanks. I'll be here all week. Tip your waitress...xeyebrowx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[AZGrizFan]

THis whole thing just reinforces why I only buy ONE issue of S.I. each year.... xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[Grizalltheway]

THis whole thing just reinforces why I only buy ONE issue of S.I. each year.... xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

Amen.

[james_lawfirm]

You can respond to anything you want to, but if you insist on beating that tired argument to death, expect to be called on it, that's all.

OK. I give. Now, can we please play some FOOTBALL?

[Cap'n Cat]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/07/trouble.in.paradise0813/p1_kroon.jpg


Look behind her, Gizzard! I KNEW I left a piss jug in Montana!!!


xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Cap'n Cat]

It looks like the Cap'n left one of his piss jars in the Bozeman area.
xeekx xeekx

I knew it, NE, I just KNEW it!!!!

[boonedocks]

THis whole thing just reinforces why I only buy ONE issue of S.I. each year.... xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

xnodx xnodx xnodx

xthumbsupx

[GOKATS]

THis whole thing just reinforces why I only buy ONE issue of S.I. each year.... xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

xthumbsupx Took me at least 10-15 years of subscribing (and it's a pricey mag) to figure out that I really don't give a ***** about MLB, NBA, world league soccer, etc. I like NFL and what collegiate FB & BB coverage SI provides, but all in all it boiled down to that one issue in early Feb.xnodx xnodx

[GOKATS]

Hey, it's okay man, lots of people from your generation grew up without learning how to read. xwhistlex

Was there a toy in todays "Happy Meal"?xlolx

[CopperCat]

Hey, it's okay man, lots of people from your generation grew up without learning how to read. xwhistlex

And you must be part of the generation that would rather stay in their dorm room surfing the net and blowing time on Playstation?

[elkmcc]

And you must be part of the generation that would rather stay in their dorm room surfing the net and blowing time on Playstation?


What the? This from a guy with a moniker that includes a"FTG" and has made over 1800 posts on this board alone in less than a year.
I'm guessing disrespect isn't the only thing this blow hard has been wasting himself on. xeyebrowx Talk about the pot calling the kettle black (no racial connotations intended).

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Your quote --- You know what kills me about you app fans, and the newbie certainly pointed it out again.

It was ok for App state players to get personal foul penalties during the game, after all they were only retaliating to MSU's taunts. I guess two wrongs do make a right in them there mountains.

Hardly choir boy material as you make them out to be musketeer. ---

Here are some of the top FCS programs that have visited Boone in the last 6-7 years - Troy - Texas State - William & Mary - Eastern Kentucky - FAMU - Maine - Coastal Carolina - Lafayette - Youngstown State - Southern Illinois - James Madison + All the SoCon teams including arch-rivals Georgia Southern and Furman and only ONE game had "antics" and numerous unsportsmanlike penalties - (Montana State). One of two things happened, either it was aberrant behavior for that one game by the Mountaineers OR it was instigated by the opponent (MSU).

By the way, I also thought the SI article was very poorly written, used gross stereotyping and insinuation, and was written, in my opinion, to make the problem more racial than lack of guidance by those in power. By the actions the University took they seem to agree with the latter. The article is a direct insult to every African-American recruit or transfer from a major metropolitan area that attends any college and an indirect smear on all transfers and kids from less than ideal environments.

[The Moody1]

Go back and play with your Tonka trucks, junior. xrolleyesx


That AZ sun has probably melted your brain. Get away from your keyboard and live a little. Geek.

[AZGrizFan]

That AZ sun has probably melted your brain. Get away from your keyboard and live a little. Geek.

Ahhh, name calling from another intelligent mouskateer fan. Love it. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Your mother wears army boots. To bed. With me. xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

So there.

[lizrdgizrd]

Ahhh, name calling from another intelligent mouskateer fan. Love it. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Your mother wears army boots. To bed. With me. xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

So there.

Looking for something like this?

http://www.valleywag.com/assets/resources/2006/11/your-mom-rated-e.jpg

[AZGrizFan]

Looking for something like this?

http://www.valleywag.com/assets/resources/2006/11/your-mom-rated-e.jpg

That is priceless. xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[mlbowl]

Looking for something like this?

http://www.valleywag.com/assets/resources/2006/11/your-mom-rated-e.jpg




Hilarious!
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlmaox xlolx xlolx xlolx

[james_lawfirm]

OK, to all you Big Sky posters, I want to direct your attention to the article by David Coulson linked on the thread "Around the FCS world in 38 days."

Further, I have been rather unforgiving in posts regarding one Big Sky team in particular and their visit to Boone last year. I have promised not to mention their name, but you know them.

Mr. C has a glowing report of his reception at the Big Sky media conference he attended. And specifically, he notes that their new coach, Coach Ash (sp?), is heading in the right direction with that program.

If Mr. C is convinced they are turning things around, that's good enough for me. I want to wish that team and that university the best in its efforts to field a good, quality program and to compete with the best in FCS football.

[laxVik]

So a team visits Boone and kids act like idiots and shoot their mouths off and the program's out of control? I take it you've never been to a Fresno State game? Or Oregon vs Oregon State? As much as I can agree that MSU has had some issues (serious ones at that), reading over the past month about ASU fans complaining about the unsportsman-like behavior that occurred at Boone last year, and how that is somehow supposed to be indicative of a program out of control, is a reach at best. Talk about smug, man. But then that's ASU of late.

[cats2506]

OK, to all you Big Sky posters, I want to direct your attention to the article by David Coulson linked on the thread "Around the FCS world in 38 days."

Further, I have been rather unforgiving in posts regarding one Big Sky team in particular and their visit to Boone last year. I have promised not to mention their name, but you know them.

Mr. C has a glowing report of his reception at the Big Sky media conference he attended. And specifically, he notes that their new coach, Coach Ash (sp?), is heading in the right direction with that program.

If Mr. C is convinced they are turning things around, that's good enough for me. I want to wish that team and that university the best in its efforts to field a good, quality program and to compete with the best in FCS football.

Sorry I couldnt read all of that, looked like the article had no real info in it, skimmed it and found his comments about Ash though, mostly it is just a list of who he saw and who he spoke to.

[elkmcc]

OK, to all you Big Sky posters, I want to direct your attention to the article by David Coulson linked on the thread "Around the FCS world in 38 days."

Further, I have been rather unforgiving in posts regarding one Big Sky team in particular and their visit to Boone last year. I have promised not to mention their name, but you know them.

Mr. C has a glowing report of his reception at the Big Sky media conference he attended. And specifically, he notes that their new coach, Coach Ash (sp?), is heading in the right direction with that program.

If Mr. C is convinced they are turning things around, that's good enough for me. I want to wish that team and that university the best in its efforts to field a good, quality program and to compete with the best in FCS football.


I'm sorry but it is going to take me a long time before I take anything I read of Coulson's to be anything more than pure Appy propaganda or at the very least just another of Mr C's name dropping installments. Hell, IMO Ronbo would have made a more objective person than Coulson for this position. xrolleyesx

[CopperCat]

What the? This from a guy with a moniker that includes a"FTG" and has made over 1800 posts on this board alone in less than a year.
I'm guessing disrespect isn't the only thing this blow hard has been wasting himself on. xeyebrowx Talk about the pot calling the kettle black (no racial connotations intended).

If you had absolutely any idea what I do, then you would think twice about saying that.

But smack away, no skin off my back.

[Appaholic]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/07/trouble.in.paradise0813/p1_kroon.jpg


I'd spank her....

[putter]

I guess we have to throw McNeese into the thug programs. One of their receivers threw a punch during the playoff game against Montana (and we did not retaliate). Their new coach should have been fired for allowing such behavior! By the way UMass was out talking smack before the playoff game and one of their players even flipped off the crowd going in for halftime. Fire their coach!! I don't condone MSU actions but I hardly think these type of actions are confined to Montana St and the Big Sky..xconfusedx

[laxVik]

I'd spank her....It looks like she's on the verge of morphing into a librarian.

[elkmcc]

And you must be part of the generation that would rather stay in their dorm room surfing the net and blowing time on Playstation?


What the? This from a guy with a moniker that includes a"FTG" and has made over 1800 posts on this board alone in less than a year.
I'm guessing disrespect isn't the only thing this blow hard has been wasting himself on. xeyebrowx Talk about the pot calling the kettle black (no racial connotations intended).


If you had absolutely any idea what I do, then you would think twice about saying that.

But smack away, no skin off my back.

I am not at all aware of "what you do" (I'll trust you and really don't want to know) but I certainly hope you are not threatening me because I pointed out that you must be spending a lot of time on this message board if you made 1800 posts in less than one year.

Secondly, I would hope that whatever it is that you do do, if it is a governmentally funded job that you do you do your messageboard posting on your own time.

Lastly, someone who uses "FTG" in their board name certainly should not accuse any Griz fan of throwing smack around. I don't know if you thought about it but many Griz fans including myself consider that acronym insulting and disrespectful. I have been a member of this on line community for many years now, and I like to think that I do not post smack and that when I do post that it has meaning and value to the majority of the AGS community. Granted there might be a few who do not like what I say on occasion but that does not make it smack.

Have a nice day.:)

[SoCon48]

I am not at all aware of "what you do" (I'll trust you and really don't want to know) but I certainly hope you are not threatening me because I pointed out that you must be spending a lot of time on this message board if you made 1800 posts in less than one year.

Secondly, I would hope that whatever it is that you do do, if it is a governmentally funded job that you do you do your messageboard posting on your own time.

Lastly, someone who uses "FTG" in their board name certainly should not accuse any Griz fan of throwing smack around. I don't know if you thought about it but many Griz fans including myself consider that acronym insulting and disrespectful. I have been a member of this on line community for many years now, and I like to think that I do not post smack and that when I do post that it has meaning and value to the majority of the AGS community. Granted there might be a few who do not like what I say on occasion but that does not make it smack.

Have a nice day.:)

O-U-C-H!

[james_lawfirm]

O-U-C-H!

Ditto.

[james_lawfirm]

I'd spank her....

Now, THAT'S FUNNY!

[CopperCat]

I am not at all aware of "what you do" (I'll trust you and really don't want to know) but I certainly hope you are not threatening me because I pointed out that you must be spending a lot of time on this message board if you made 1800 posts in less than one year.

Secondly, I would hope that whatever it is that you do do, if it is a governmentally funded job that you do you do your messageboard posting on your own time.

Lastly, someone who uses "FTG" in their board name certainly should not accuse any Griz fan of throwing smack around. I don't know if you thought about it but many Griz fans including myself consider that acronym insulting and disrespectful. I have been a member of this on line community for many years now, and I like to think that I do not post smack and that when I do post that it has meaning and value to the majority of the AGS community. Granted there might be a few who do not like what I say on occasion but that does not make it smack.

Have a nice day.:)

Griz fans have been equally disrespectful. Two way street.

I'll PM you with the rest. This is done.

[Grizalltheway]

And you must be part of the generation that would rather stay in their dorm room surfing the net and blowing time on Playstation?

I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. xthumbsupx

[Grizalltheway]

Was there a toy in todays "Happy Meal"?xlolx

Nope. xnonono2x Leave it to an MSU grad to forget to put it in there. xsmiley_wix

[lizrdgizrd]

It looks like she's on the verge of morphing into a librarian.

That just means she'll know all the good spots in the library to show her "O" face. xsmiley_wix

http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/images/300.jpg

[AZGrizFan]

That just means she'll know all the good spots in the library to show her "O" face. xsmiley_wix

http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/images/300.jpg


Wear a condom. She get's "around"....

[Grizalltheway]

Wear a condom. She get's "around"....

"Really?"
"Like a record" xlolx

[CopperCat]

I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. xthumbsupx

Too much Grand Theft Auto......tsk tsk.

[Grizalltheway]

Too much Grand Theft Auto......tsk tsk.

Judging by your location, the same goes for you. xsmiley_wix

[Appaholic]

It looks like she's on the verge of morphing into a librarian.

Ahhh.....the Dewey Decimel Donkey Punch....always a crowd favorite......librarians rock!!! xthumbsupx

[PhantomCAT]

[QUOTE=Mort;612554]As for Ash, he swung and missed on his first disciplinary issue as far as I'm concerned. QUOTE]

How did Ash miss on his first disciplinary issue. If you are referring to the egging and entering, YOU SIR DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS. The local newspaper missed the facts of this story. No football player egged anything and no football player entered any house.xthumbsupx

[GOKATS]

[QUOTE=Mort;612554]As for Ash, he swung and missed on his first disciplinary issue as far as I'm concerned. QUOTE]

How did Ash miss on his first disciplinary issue. If you are referring to the egging and entering, YOU SIR DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS. The local newspaper missed the facts of this story. No football player egged anything and no football player entered any house.xthumbsupx

MORT isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.....xsmiley_wix

[CatFan22]

Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

[cats2506]

As for Ash, he swung and missed on his first disciplinary issue as far as I'm concerned.

How did Ash miss on his first disciplinary issue. If you are referring to the egging and entering, YOU SIR DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS. The local newspaper missed the facts of this story. No football player egged anything and no football player entered any house.xthumbsupx

They know that it is not true, It was said several times in the thread about the egging incident, It just dosn't fit their "view" so they keep trying to repeat it.

[Old Montana State Grad]

It took a week for Bozeman to respond.

Opinion: SI subject a victim of her own words

By JEFF WELSCH Chronicle Sports Editor

One moment, she's just another spunky fourth-generation Montanan, trying to make ends meet as a bookkeeper. The next, she's the unwitting (white) face of an entire city, valley and state.


Ashley N. Kroon is having her five minutes of fame.

Five seconds would've sufficed, thank you.

Kroon - in case you're one of the few Bozemanites who couldn't secure the latest Sports Illustrated issue before it flew off the shelves - is the 23-year-old local woman around whom a lengthy SI piece on Montana State University's recent sporting crime wave was written.

Reporter George Dohrmann spent a few days here last winter asking about drugs, murder and other MSU mayhem, leaving his Pulitzer Prizes at home but appearing to pack a pre-ordained vision of the story's angle.




YesNo

YesNo

YesNo




To wit: Mono-culture white, rural, Wrangler-clad, just-off-the-turnip-truck Hooterville meets aberration black, urban, baggy-jeaned, gangsta rappa Boyz From the Hood.

So even if there was a Cliff Huxtable comfortably rooted in every leafy neighborhood, and even if there was a Starbuck's on every corner, and even if Main Street looked like an Up With People rally, reality wasn't going to alter his pre-conceived perception.

In Kroon, an admitted newspaper junkie who had written two letters to the Chronicle critical of MSU's football program, Dohrmann found a foil whose words could be spun to fit the stereotype.

The gist: Restless natives want MSU to forgo recruiting risky city kids from California and Florida (read: black) and shift the focus to wholesome rural Montanans (read: white).

“They should be giving those scholarships farm boys,” Kroon was quoted as saying, affirming the provincial notion.

The audible gasp that immediately followed was open-minded Montanans, chagrined MSU officials and Kroon herself wincing in uncomfortable exasperation.

One moment, Kroon - whose trendy glasses and stylish blonde hair belie her cow-town pedigree - is thinking of herself as an accepting young woman raised to avoid judging books by their covers, a woman who learned Spanish to converse with a budding Hispanic population, a woman who says she likes to shop at Wal-Mart because of the cultural diversity there.

The next, she is villified on the Internet as a racist representing a stereotype that clings to Montana like so many unwanted barnacles.

“It's ironic,” she said. “A lot of people have chosen to make me a racist, which isn't true. Please say that. That's not me. I'm not a racist!

“George and I talked on the phone a lot, and I think he cherry-picked comments to make the article what he wanted it to be. I was not prepared for the slant he put on that article. I didn't think he was going to make it so much of a race issue.”

What she did think was that the story would reflect a frustration and ire, shared by fourth-generation and four-month Montanans alike, at the root of the evil that has permeated a small but conspicuous corner of MSU athletics.

This “Trouble in Paradise” isn't about race, she says, it's about an insatiable need to win at any cost.

In Kroon's view, MSU was wantonly giving scholarship money to shaky characters who are treated like rock stars, most of whom happen to be black, simply to beat the Griz.

“I see a loss of passion for the game,” she says. “It's become a score on the board. That's all it seems like any more.”

And yes, perhaps it's personal: While alleged killers Branden Miller and John Lebrum, as well as suspected cocaine distributors Rick Gatewood, Eddie Sullivan, Andre Fuller and Derrick Davis, were given free rides to MSU, she says she was shut out financially despite graduating from Bozeman High in 2002 with a 3.9 grade-point average and a college prep diploma.

Unable to afford her backyard school, she took a job as a bookkeeper with a local construction company, temporarily or perhaps permanently abandoning her dream of becoming a professional writer.

In essence, this urban offspring of upper Shields Valley parents is the euphemistic “farm boy” to which she alluded, though she now allows that her choice of words was easy to massage for desired context and, thus in the end, “explosive.”

“Obviously,” she said, explaining her context, “something is going wrong (at MSU).”

And that, she says, was her point, though a Google search of her name on the Internet suggests that her “farm boy” comment and racial tenor of the story blended unseamlessly. Indeed, she was so flummoxed by the stinging criticism that she posted her defense on the MSU fan site BobcatNation.com, where she explained that, far from being a racist, she actually laments Bozeman's lack of ethnic diversity.

That she was characterized as otherwise she blames partly on her own choice of words but mostly on a writer whose story seemed to be written before his plane ever touched down.

“I think the kindness and neighborliness of Montana was lost in that article,” Kroon said, and she could've been referring to herself - a woman who in her five seconds of fame wanted to be her state's conscience, not its (white) face.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Read into it as I can, there is NOTHING that Ms. Kroon says in the article that says that she wrote the local paper because the perpetrators in this particular crime a BLACK. As if COCAINE had nothing to do with her comments, but RACE did.

If you take out the invented racism in Ms Kroon's comments, the whole "race war" part of the article falls apart.

...

Overall, it's yet another misinformed, sensationalistic, race-baiting article by Sports Illustrated that involved the interview of one Bozeman resident, a few comments about race (to underscore their "point" about race), some ill-informed "facts/lies" about transfer students and some phone interviews with school officials and cops. The truth of the matter is much more complex than that. But articles like this are dangerous, perpetuating the stereotypes that not only are transfers are a horrible thing to the Fabric of Society, but especially if they're African-American and come from Urban Areas.

Montana State should not get a free pass for letting their athletics department get so mixed up in crime, getting bad human beings on their teams and all that. But SI is making it sound that it's endemic to ALL schools with transfers - especially African-American ones - which is heinously untrue. xmadx


“George and I talked on the phone a lot, and I think he cherry-picked comments to make the article what he wanted it to be. I was not prepared for the slant he put on that article. I didn't think he was going to make it so much of a race issue.”

Shall I just feign shock and horror, or should I just say a hearty, "I told you so"?

[AZGrizFan]

“George and I talked on the phone a lot, and I think he cherry-picked comments to make the article what he wanted it to be. I was not prepared for the slant he put on that article. I didn't think he was going to make it so much of a race issue.”


And yes, perhaps it's personal: While alleged killers Branden Miller and John Lebrum, as well as suspected cocaine distributors Rick Gatewood, Eddie Sullivan, Andre Fuller and Derrick Davis, were given free rides to MSU, she says she was shut out financially despite graduating from Bozeman High in 2002 with a 3.9 grade-point average and a college prep diploma.



Imagine that. A pseudo-journalist "cherry picking" quotes to fit a pre-ordained slant of an article. Is she that niaive, or just plain stupid?

And she probably could have gotten one of those scholarships, if she could run a 4.5 40 and catch passes out of the backfield. xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

[CopperCat]

Imagine that. A pseudo-journalist "cherry picking" quotes to fit a pre-ordained slant of an article. Is she that niaive, or just plain stupid?

And she probably could have gotten one of those scholarships, if she could run a 4.5 40 and catch passes out of the backfield. xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

Maybe she should have looked at MSU's roster. Then she would have seen that we have plenty of players that are home grown.

So yes, she really is "just that stupid."