Eastern Washington Dropping Football?

[acbearkat]

If this scenario happens, this would be a huge loss for the Big Sky, as Eastern Washington is a perennial powerhouse.

EWU Interim President to give recommendation on division status Friday | krem.com (https://www.krem.com/article/sports/ewu-interim-president-to-give-recommendation-on-division-change-friday/293-9c3c261f-151f-4014-a14d-9f0bf261c5d1)

[Catamount87]

What's the back story here on why he's even having to make a recommendation?

[Daytripper]

What's the back story here on why he's even having to make a recommendation?

Money. It's always money.

[DFW HOYA]

What's the back story here on why he's even having to make a recommendation?

Declining enrollment.

[lionsrking2]

Declining enrollment.

Dropping football would make it worse.

[acbearkat]

If Eastern Washington drops football, then the University of Washington would have to find another opponent to play in 2026 and 2029.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It looks odd to a lot of you because I don't think you realize how much of a little engine that could EWU is. This program is way bigger and way better than it should be based on their resources. I will be very saddened to see them have to drop if this is what happens. They had a chance to catch a wave in 2010 and bring it next level but from what I know from a few fans opportunities were wasted that this school just could not afford to have happen.

This program has enriched the FCS audience for many years now and sure hope that they will be able to continue to do so.

But if they can not I am stepping in to recruit some of their fans to move over and take a seat on our roster cuz they have great players, coaches, and fans (for the most part). xlolx

[Libertine]

What's the back story here on why he's even having to make a recommendation?

The WAC now existing as a football conference probably has something to do with it. Honestly, I can't see EWU going D2 because the 3-team GNAC would be really their only conference option, a group that is now down to three football members after Azusa Pacific just dropped the sport. D3 could work with the Northwest Conference.

[acbearkat]

It looks odd to a lot of you because I don't think you realize how much of a little engine that could EWU is. This program is way bigger and way better than it should be based on their resources. I will be very saddened to see them have to drop if this is what happens. They had a chance to catch a wave in 2010 and bring it next level but from what I know from a few fans opportunities were wasted that this school just could not afford to have happen.

This program has enriched the FCS audience for many years now and sure hope that they will be able to continue to do so.

But if they can not I am stepping in to recruit some of their fans to move over and take a seat on our roster cuz they have great players, coaches, and fans (for the most part). xlolx

I didn't get to interact with any of the Montana fans who came to Huntsville in 2011 for the semifinal game, but I interacted with some of the Montana State fans the week before, and they were great, and if the Montana fans are like that, that's great. The Big Sky is not in a recruiting hotbed, which makes what Montana and Eastern Washington do so amazing.

[BEAR]

It looks odd to a lot of you because I don't think you realize how much of a little engine that could EWU is. This program is way bigger and way better than it should be based on their resources. I will be very saddened to see them have to drop if this is what happens. They had a chance to catch a wave in 2010 and bring it next level but from what I know from a few fans opportunities were wasted that this school just could not afford to have happen.

This program has enriched the FCS audience for many years now and sure hope that they will be able to continue to do so.

But if they can not I am stepping in to recruit some of their fans to move over and take a seat on our roster cuz they have great players, coaches, and fans (for the most part). xlolx

Like a vulture...the carcass isn't even cold yet...if it ever gets cold....xlolx

[JayJ79]

I'm in favor of anything that gets rid of that ugly arse field.

[BEAR]

https://www.kxly.com/interim-president-recommends-ewu-stay-a-division-1-sports-university/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_kxly4news

Interim President recommends EWU stay a Division 1 sports university

[ElCid]

Money. It's always money.

I guess it's hard to believe that school of 12K+ has a hard time finding funding. It may be a funding issue, but chances are good that is may be a matter of choice in allocation. They can choose whatever priorities they want for their available funds, but I think it would be more accurate to say that it is a priority issue rather than actual bottom line funding. They just have to decide what they feel a Div I football program is worth to their institution and its students. Do they have an healthy donor base? I get that their travel expenses are high due to their conf footprint. I certainly do not want this to drift into political areas, but I also wonder, I have no idea, how much pressure is being applied from anti-football forces within their institution among the usual suspect groups. We have all seen that before at many institutions. Wish them luck.

All that said, considering the large number of startups and move ups that have occured since Div I was split 40+ years ago maybe this situation will give schools contemplating a move up, some pause. Especially in the cyclical lean times. There have been too many that had little business making the move due to limited support/funding. EWU should have easily been one of the more confident ones given their size.

[acbearkat]

I guess it's hard to believe that school of 12K+ has a hard time finding funding. It may be a funding issue, but chances are good that is may be a matter of choice in allocation. They can choose whatever priorities they want for their available funds, but I think it would be more accurate to say that it is a priority issue rather than actual bottom line funding. They just have to decide what they feel a Div I football program is worth to their institution and its students. Do they have an healthy donor base? I get that their travel expenses are high due to their conf footprint. I certainly do not want this to drift into political areas, but I also wonder, I have no idea, how much pressure is being applied from anti-football forces within their institution among the usual suspect groups. We have all seen that before at many institutions. Wish them luck.

All that said, considering the large number of startups and move ups that have occured since Div I was split 40+ years ago maybe this situation will give schools contemplating a move up, some pause. Especially in the cyclical lean times. There have been too many that had little business making the move due to limited support/funding. EWU should have easily been one of the more confident ones given their size.

One thing that should give any FCS school looking to make the jump to the FBS pause is the lack of success many former FCS members have had since making the jump to the FBS. The only one I can think of that's had long term success is Troy, formerly Troy State, in Troy, Alabama. Appalachian State has had success, but they haven't been in the FBS long, and we'll see about Coastal Carolina and Liberty long term, especially Liberty after Hugh Freeze is gone. Texas State has had no success since leaving the Southland after the 2011 season.

[lionsrking2]

- - - Updated - - -


One thing that should give any FCS school looking to make the jump to the FBS pause is the lack of success many former FCS members have had since making the jump to the FBS. The only one I can think of that's had long term success is Troy, formerly Troy State, in Troy, Alabama. Appalachian State has had success, but they haven't been in the FBS long, and we'll see about Coastal Carolina and Liberty long term, especially Liberty after Hugh Freeze is gone. Texas State has had no success since leaving the Southland after the 2011 season.

Boise State and Central Florida are the best examples. Louisiana Tech and Marshall are others.

[ElCid]

One thing that should give any FCS school looking to make the jump to the FBS pause is the lack of success many former FCS members have had since making the jump to the FBS. The only one I can think of that's had long term success is Troy, formerly Troy State, in Troy, Alabama. Appalachian State has had success, but they haven't been in the FBS long, and we'll see about Coastal Carolina and Liberty long term, especially Liberty after Hugh Freeze is gone. Texas State has had no success since leaving the Southland after the 2011 season.

You would have to define success. Marshall, Boise St., plus a couple others have done just fine. Ga So is holding its own as well. Granted "most" who have move up are mediocre at best. But think of all the ones who were Div II or startups who have moved up to FCS. Some have done well, or really well like NDSU, some are gone already, and some have done ok, but are still on the edge. I wouldn't be surprised to see more instances in the next few years of what EWU is facing. Especially at smaller state schools who rely on state funding too much or where there is minimal fan/donor support.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Like a vulture...the carcass isn't even cold yet...if it ever gets cold....xlolx

Grizzlies don't wait for dinner to get cold.

[acbearkat]

You would have to define success. Marshall, Boise St., plus a couple others have done just fine. Ga So is holding its own as well. Granted "most" who have move up are mediocre at best. But think of all the ones who were Div II or startups who have moved up to FCS. Some have done well, or really well like NDSU, some are gone already, and some have done ok, but are still on the edge. I wouldn't be surprised to see more instances in the next few years of what EWU is facing. Especially at smaller state schools who rely on state funding too much or where there is minimal fan/donor support.

The reason I brought up Troy is I remember in the late 90s, SFA and Troy had a 6-1 record in the Southland one year, and Troy ended up getting the automatic bid because Troy won the head to head matchup. I was really young. I’m 30 years old.


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[DFW HOYA]

I guess it's hard to believe that school of 12K+ has a hard time finding funding.

Plenty of very large schools use funding as an argument against football: George Mason (38,255), Virginia Commonwealth (29,417), and Boston University (34,589), to name just three.

[Libertine]

One thing that should give any FCS school looking to make the jump to the FBS pause is the lack of success many former FCS members have had since making the jump to the FBS. The only one I can think of that's had long term success is Troy, formerly Troy State, in Troy, Alabama. Appalachian State has had success, but they haven't been in the FBS long, and we'll see about Coastal Carolina and Liberty long term, especially Liberty after Hugh Freeze is gone. Texas State has had no success since leaving the Southland after the 2011 season.

The reality is that every program has its up's and down's. For example, USF was briefly ranked #2 in the nation in '07, less than a decade removed from starting the program at the I-AA level. Last year, they pretty much defined the term 'hapless'. But, was their move unsuccessful because they're having terrible years now when they had fantastic years before? Coaches come and coaches go and they often carry their successes and failures with them but the program remains.

Further, "success" is relative to perspective and recency bias. Using Troy as an example, the Trojans are kind of a middling FBS program now but started at the NAIA level and were D2 until 1990 when they transitioned to I-AA then moved to I-A in '01. From the standpoint of their D2 supporters in 1990, Troy's program trajectory has surely surpassed all expectations. If you could tell those people that the Trojans would one march into Death Valley and knock off LSU, they would be overjoyed. Also, if you told them that, just two years later, LSU would go on to be national champions while Troy would fall back to .500, they still would consider the move a wild success.

[KPSUL]

Grizzlies don't wait for dinner to get cold.

Really? I thought they'd eat just about anything, dead or alive.

[Agentorange24]

One thing that should give any FCS school looking to make the jump to the FBS pause is the lack of success many former FCS members have had since making the jump to the FBS. The only one I can think of that's had long term success is Troy, formerly Troy State, in Troy, Alabama. Appalachian State has had success, but they haven't been in the FBS long, and we'll see about Coastal Carolina and Liberty long term, especially Liberty after Hugh Freeze is gone. Texas State has had no success since leaving the Southland after the 2011 season.


I don’t recall Texas State being relevant before the FBS move up…

[lionsrking2]

I don’t recall Texas State being relevant before the FBS move up…

They should have played for a national title in 2005 but David Bailiff decided to take a knee and play for OT vs UNI in the semis instead of trying to score with over a minute to play and the ball near midfield. One of the worst coaching decisions I’ve ever seen.

[Agentorange24]

They should have played for a national title in 2005 but David Bailiff decided to take a knee and play for OT vs UNI in the semis instead of trying to score with over a minute to play and the ball near midfield. One of the worst coaching decisions I’ve ever seen.

So he was already a terribly conservative coach before he went to Rice.

[Puddin Tane]

Money. It's always money.

before LU dropped, we had the money raised to keep it going. Back when we were bad azz in basketball. The prez was determined to drop football and turn us into a basketball school. Didn’t happen and everything went down the ****ter.

I hope EWU doesn’t drop, cuz it suxxxx

[Puddin Tane]

One thing that should give any FCS school looking to make the jump to the FBS pause is the lack of success many former FCS members have had since making the jump to the FBS. The only one I can think of that's had long term success is Troy, formerly Troy State, in Troy, Alabama. Appalachian State has had success, but they haven't been in the FBS long, and we'll see about Coastal Carolina and Liberty long term, especially Liberty after Hugh Freeze is gone. Texas State has had no success since leaving the Southland after the 2011 season.

my kid went to UL-Lafayette. They’ve been having a pretty good run lately. Their attendance has been declining..even with 1.00 beer promos!

ULM should drop to the southland. Or D2. They suck

[Puddin Tane]

I don’t recall Texas State being relevant before the FBS move up…

when they were swtsu, they won 2 , d2 nattys

beat the piss outta the bison in first game

[lionsrking2]

my kid went to UL-Lafayette. They’ve been having a pretty good run lately. Their attendance has been declining..even with 1.00 beer promos!

ULM should drop to the southland. Or D2. They suck

ULL was never I-AA or FCS. They've always been Division I.

[Puddin Tane]

ULL was never I-AA or FCS. They've always been Division I.

We used to play em? Was there no I-aa back in the day? I can’t remember, too many cocktails at casino in lake chuck

[Puddin Tane]

“Small college division”?

[lionsrking2]

We used to play em? Was there no I-aa back in the day? I can’t remember, too many cocktails at casino in lake chuck

You may have played them but they were I-A. The Southland was a I-A conference from the first year of the subdivisions until 1981. I think '82 was the first year the league was I-AA. Cajuns stayed in I-A as an independent. La Tech hung around in the SLC for a few more years and moved to I-A in 1987 I believe. Arkansas State moved up the next year; ULM in 1994 and North Texas in 1995.

[Agentorange24]

when they were swtsu, they won 2 , d2 nattys

beat the piss outta the bison in first game

Was before my attentive viewing pleasure.

[Laker]

I don’t recall Texas State being relevant before the FBS move up…

Jim Wacker was successful before he went to TCU and then the Gophers.

Jim Wacker - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Wacker)

[NY Crusader 2010]

Jim Wacker was successful before he went to TCU and then the Gophers.

Jim Wacker - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Wacker)

They had ONE pretty good team in 2004 or 2005. I remember them making either the quarters or semis and watching them on ESPN.

[DFW HOYA]

In the 10 years before Jim Wacker came to TCU the Frogs were 17-90-3. (5-55-1 in conference). As he liked to say, he made them believe again.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Really? I thought they'd eat just about anything, dead or alive.

ursus glances down at waistline and concedes the point.

[ntxgamecock]

The reality is that every program has its up's and down's. For example, USF was briefly ranked #2 in the nation in '07, less than a decade removed from starting the program at the I-AA level. Last year, they pretty much defined the term 'hapless'. But, was their move unsuccessful because they're having terrible years now when they had fantastic years before? Coaches come and coaches go and they often carry their successes and failures with them but the program remains.

Further, "success" is relative to perspective and recency bias. Using Troy as an example, the Trojans are kind of a middling FBS program now but started at the NAIA level and were D2 until 1990 when they transitioned to I-AA then moved to I-A in '01. From the standpoint of their D2 supporters in 1990, Troy's program trajectory has surely surpassed all expectations. If you could tell those people that the Trojans would one march into Death Valley and knock off LSU, they would be overjoyed. Also, if you told them that, just two years later, LSU would go on to be national champions while Troy would fall back to .500, they still would consider the move a wild success.

Full disclosure: Troy State was our arch rival back in the D-2 days.

I was working at a TV station in Montgomery when they moved up to I-AA, and they had the good fortune of benefiting from the NCAA violations at Auburn under Pat Dye. They hired Larry Blakeney as coach after he was let go at Auburn. Blakeney knew that if they were going to be taken seriously as a D-1 in Alabama, they’d have to compete with the big schools. They had some pretty aggressive schedules right out of the gate. They beat Miss St their first year in D-1. They hosted and beat 17th ranked Missouri three years later and then hosted and beat Oklahoma State three years after that.

As I recall, The NCAA changed the rules about post-season eligibility or the requirements to move up after Troy moved up.


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[Catbooster]

ULL was never I-AA or FCS. They've always been Division I.
As I-aa and FCS are DI. you mean they have always been I-A or FBS.

;)

[NY Crusader 2010]

You may have played them but they were I-A. The Southland was a I-A conference from the first year of the subdivisions until 1981. I think '82 was the first year the league was I-AA. Cajuns stayed in I-A as an independent. La Tech hung around in the SLC for a few more years and moved to I-A in 1987 I believe. Arkansas State moved up the next year; ULM in 1994 and North Texas in 1995.

Troy was 2001 or 2002 -- they were SLC right? I know they moved up from D-II in the early 90's.

[ElCid]

Vote wasn't even close. I think it was 8-1 to stay put. Much ado about nothing.

https://footballscoop.com/news/eastern-washington-remain-fcs-will-not-drop-football-division-iii

[Libertine]

Vote wasn't even close. I think it was 8-1 to stay put. Much ado about nothing.

https://footballscoop.com/news/eastern-washington-remain-fcs-will-not-drop-football-division-iii

I wouldn't say nothing, far from it. The $$$ problems haven't gone away in Cheney. Just because they haven't killed the golden goose -- or golden eagle, I suppose -- doesn't necessarily mean they can afford to keep feeding it at the current level. If anything, this whole dance was still a bright red signal from the EWU admin to their fan and alumni base that they genuinely need more and deeper financial support. Even though the school prez was never going to recommend dropping the program and/or dropping down and the board was never going to vote that way either, they needed to be seen as taking the idea seriously in order to get their donors to recognize the problem as real.

[Iridebikes]

Money. It's always money.

I don't know if EWU is unique or if the athletic administration has not executed but fund raising has been a real problem here. A couple of reasons or excuses. We're a commuter school and loyalties don't run real deep. We're in a media market that is obsessed with Gonzaga basketball and Washington State (PAC12) football. We're in an area that is not heavily populated yet has four D1 athletic programs within 80 miles. Just some thoughts. I do know that EWU, in athletics has performed very well when you factor in the lack of resources.

[ElCid]

A couple of reasons or excuses. We're a commuter school and loyalties don't run real deep.

We're in a media market that is obsessed with Gonzaga basketball and Washington State (PAC12) football. We're in an area that is not heavily populated yet has four D1 athletic programs within 80 miles.


I get the reasoning of the second point, but it really is far from unique. I think Spokane County has at least 500k+ folks. That's pretty big compared to a lot of FCS places. How much press time do you think The Citadel, Furman, Wofford, SC ST, Chas So or Presbyterian get in the shadow of Clemson or USC?

I think your first reason is more likely. Since, obviously, loyalty is predominantly achieved from a resident student body. That's always been a hard nut to crack.

Always glad to see a school stay rather than go though. The SOCON lived through that with ETSU.

[ccd494]

Vote wasn't even close. I think it was 8-1 to stay put. Much ado about nothing.

https://footballscoop.com/news/eastern-washington-remain-fcs-will-not-drop-football-division-iii

I would point out that the "1" was the student representative, who is the only one of the 9 who pays out of pocket for EWU to have sports. If you can't convince your students that there is value in sponsoring football, why are you sponsoring it?

[ElCid]

I would point out that the "1" was the student representative, who is the only one of the 9 who pays out of pocket for EWU to have sports. If you can't convince your students that there is value in sponsoring football, why are you sponsoring it?

I can just imagine the type of person it was who was sent as a rep.

[wapiti]

Will this kind of news affect EWU recruiting???

I would think the higher quality recruits may question if they will be able to play 4/5 years or if the program might get cut?

[Libertine]

I would point out that the "1" was the student representative, who is the only one of the 9 who pays out of pocket for EWU to have sports. If you can't convince your students that there is value in sponsoring football, why are you sponsoring it?

College students are notoriously shortsighted and I don't know why in the world a serious university would have a 22-year old ex-RA (https://www.ewu.edu/about/leadership/bot/board-members/) casting potentially tie-breaking votes on the university's future.

College football is not entertainment for the students, college football is business and business is not a zero-sum game. I would argue that, if you have had the kind of success on the field that EWU has but still can't convince the student rep, then either that student doesn't accurately represent the student body as a whole or that EWU is succeeding in spite of their students.

[DFW HOYA]

College football is not entertainment for the students, college football is business and business is not a zero-sum game. I would argue that, if you have had the kind of success on the field that EWU has but still can't convince the student rep, then either that student doesn't accurately represent the student body as a whole or that EWU is succeeding in spite of their students.

College football is a business for roughly 75 schools and we all know who they are. There's another 25 schools to who athletics is an expensive student activity that builds ties between the generations for institutional support (think Ivies, Patriot, and a select group of national private schools for whom enrollment is generally impervious to athletic performance.) For the rest of the 250 Division I schools, athletics is an admissions, enrollment, and/or state funding driver.

EWU is good enough to be good but never good enough to be great relative to UW and Wazzu--they correctly see a future of declining enrolment and state funding in a portion of the state that people are leaving. Drop athletics and they risk rapidly losing enrollment and becoming a target for defunding and/or consolidation with WSU in Pullman, one hour away. Keeping athletics doesn't fix the enrollment problem nor its miniscule endowment ($26 million) but keeps them relevant to applicants who want a well rounded university experience.

[Libertine]

For the rest of the 250 Division I schools, athletics is an admissions, enrollment, and/or state funding driver.

Yeah, that's what I said. Business.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Will this kind of news affect EWU recruiting???

I would think the higher quality recruits may question if they will be able to play 4/5 years or if the program might get cut?

These sorts of things have been said about EWU for a couple of decades because they bounce back and forth from the razor's edge consistently and these stories pop up about once a recruiting cycle of every 5 yrs. or so it seems and yet they stay where they are for the most part...near or at the top.

So if it did have an impact can you imagine the quality of athletes they might have had? IOW, I don't buy it at all.

I'm also with ElCid on the parts about who EWU competes with...I've heard that from every team in any metro area for 20 yrs. and those saying it can never explain how teams like JMU, App, GSU, etc. can make their way in much larger metro areas with much more ardent fan bases around them in their areas.

The commuter schools argument has some teeth though to me.

[UNHWildcat18]

I can just imagine the type of person it was who was sent as a rep.


I'm laughing just thinking about it, some book worm introvert, who puts "activism" on their dating profile for interests.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I'm laughing just thinking about it, some book worm introvert, who puts "activism" on their dating profile for interests.

Or maybe someone who had a bad experience with one or several members of the football team. Never heard of universities picking a student trustee. And an undergrad at that. This would be like having an intern or clerk be a deciding vote on the Supreme Court.

[EdubAlum]

Even though the school prez was never going to recommend dropping the program and/or dropping down and the board was never going to vote that way either, they needed to be seen as taking the idea seriously in order to get their donors to recognize the problem as real.

Not just the donors. One of the science professors is on an absolute war path to scale down or eliminate athletics. I won’t doxx the guy but a quick look through newspaper articles will make it very clear to whom I’m referencing.

He’s furious because he has a PHD and barely makes 70k when some of the coaches make double that. He seems to think that if he can shut down athletics, EWU will pay him more and suddenly EWU will turn into Harvard. In my opinion he’s a textbook narcissist (he regularly reminds people he’s an astrophysicist etc) and will never end this campaign.

He and a few of his colleagues kicked off this whole process by publishing a heavily biased paper filled with half truths (or outright lies in some cases), misleading statements, and heavy assumptions at best. This fired up employees of EWU and in many ways the report did exactly what they intended.

Regardless, the money problems are very real at EWU and elsewhere; I expect that in a post pandemic world these questions will keep coming up.

[DFW HOYA]

Never heard of universities picking a student trustee. And an undergrad at that. This would be like having an intern or clerk be a deciding vote on the Supreme Court.

Many state schools have student trustees.

https://trustees.iu.edu/student-trustee/index.html

[ST_Lawson]

Many state schools have student trustees.

https://trustees.iu.edu/student-trustee/index.html

WIU also has a student representative on our Board of Trustees.

[Catbooster]

These sorts of things have been said about EWU for a couple of decades because they bounce back and forth from the razor's edge consistently and these stories pop up about once a recruiting cycle of every 5 yrs. or so it seems and yet they stay where they are for the most part...near or at the top.

So if it did have an impact can you imagine the quality of athletes they might have had? IOW, I don't buy it at all.

I'm also with ElCid on the parts about who EWU competes with...I've heard that from every team in any metro area for 20 yrs. and those saying it can never explain how teams like JMU, App, GSU, etc. can make their way in much larger metro areas with much more ardent fan bases around them in their areas.

The commuter schools argument has some teeth though to me.

I agree with you as far as football. But they've had their BB teams decimated by transfers this year. Of course, it's hard to say that was an effect of this report since their men's BB coach got hired away from them, a couple of their star players played well in the tourney and raised their profile, EWU fired their women's BB coach, etc. And then there's also all the weirdness of this last year, extra year of eligibility, etc. I haven't followed their difficulties too closely, but it wouldn't surprise me if the athletics finances/stability played a part in some of these problems,, albeit probably a small part.

[ElCid]

I'm laughing just thinking about it, some book worm introvert, who puts "activism" on their dating profile for interests.

Well, I don't think bookworm is bad, but the rest...yeah. kind of crazy. Like a 20-21 year old knows anything other than their latest cause. But voting member? Too funny for words.

[ccd494]

Well, I don't think bookworm is bad, but the rest...yeah. kind of crazy. Like a 20-21 year old knows anything other than their latest cause. But voting member? Too funny for words.

Yeah, why should any business take into account the opinions of their customers?

[ElCid]

Yeah, why should any business take into account the opinions of their customers?

Providing opinions is one thing. Actually giving someone the power of a vote on issues that will affect thousands of people, especially on such a small board is ridiculous. Unless I, as a customer, can start voting on the board of every business I use?

[Libertine]

Yeah, why should any business take into account the opinions of their customers?

There's a very real difference between considering the customer's opinion and letting them run the store. Particularly when your business model specifically defines its success as the customer eventually no longer being a customer.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Gotta agree with El Cid and Libertine on this one. If the lone student voter is actually representing the student body and their wishes then so be it. I don't know if they are here so would need to know more on that one. But, I knew a few art style people that bitched about a small part of their funds going to athletics and when they griped about it I pointed out that I was not sure I had voted to include the small part of my bill that went to supporting the arts on campus. It was something I had not voted for either...but I paid it without bitching about it.

[Pinnum]

Yeah, why should any business take into account the opinions of their customers?

This reminds me of this Simpsons episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPc-VEqBPHI

It's like the quote attributed to Henry Ford: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

The notion that the students at EWU, by virtue of being customers, are the ones that know what the school needs misses the mark significantly.

The students at EWU are already customers. Customers are always going to say they would prefer lower prices. But these students who are already customers are already agreeing to pay the costs associated of enrolling. Thus the costs are not too high for them.

The school has a reputation of being a commuter school. Students in the metro area choose the school because of the low cost of attendance. This means that the school is already the best option for these students on a cost to quality ratio. Otherwise the students wouldn't be enrolling. It is already the low cost option.

The fact that the school has many local students who view it as a commuter school leads to a lack of engagement by the student body. This becomes most obvious in matters like student governance. Commuter schools have students that spend a limited amount of time on campus and don't become engaged in campus matters. They are largely apathetic. Which means that student government actually doesn't represent these students.

The students that tend to be involved in student government tend to be residential students or commuter students who want other commuter students to have a reason to stick around campus more and be engaged.

They all want to make the campus better. But what that means is vastly different depending on who you talk with.

What the school needs is to know why students are not enrolling at the school. And there is evidence that part of the reason students don't accept admissions is because of the attributes that attracted the local students.

A great way to engage with students is to engage with alumni. When you have people who leave the school staying engaged, especially the people who are in the local community, you build a sense of pride. It shifts from "I decided to go to EWU because it is a low cost option for me" and becomes "I chose EWU because it is the school I support."

Football has been a great tool to increase engagement for many schools. It gives the campus an identity on a few Saturday's and brings people to campus.

It is the type of event that makes prospective students willing to enroll despite living hours away when there is something to do on the weekends and people take pride in being a part of the school.

[dgtw]

I don’t have a problem with a student rep as a Trustee. It is just one vote. If the vote went the opposite way (student only vote to keep football) people on here would be singing his praises.


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[Pinnum]

I don’t have a problem with a student rep as a Trustee. It is just one vote. If the vote went the opposite way (student only vote to keep football) people on here would be singing his praises.


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Nothing wrong with having a student trustee.

[Libertine]

I don’t have a problem with a student rep as a Trustee. It is just one vote.



I wouldn't either if it was just one vote out of, say, 25 trustees. One vote out of nine, however, is Supreme Court-level tiebreaking power in the hands of a 22-year old elementary ed student.

[ElCid]

I wouldn't either if it was just one vote out of, say, 25 trustees. One vote out of nine, however, is Supreme Court-level tiebreaking power in the hands of a 22-year old elementary ed student.

No joke. They have very limited experience and therefore limited vision to be making this type of decision. It is a token vote to make the students feel like they have some power. They are not equiped to make these types of monumental decisions that could be so destructive or productive to a school. And to think that the person might actually represent the majority of students is silly in light of how many students probably even know they have a rep. A elected student body exec is one thing, a voting member on the board with actual serious power is totally different. They very well could have been the tie breaker as a person elected by 10% of the student body. But hey, they can run it however they want. They have to live with the results.

[Pinnum]

No joke. They have very limited experience and therefore limited vision to be making this type of decision. It is a token vote to make the students feel like they have some power. They are not equiped to make these types of monumental decisions that could be so destructive or productive to a school. And to think that the person might actually represent the majority of students is silly in light of how many students probably even know they have a rep. A elected student body exec is one thing, a voting member on the board with actual serious power is totally different. They very well could have been the tie breaker as a person elected by 10% of the student body. But hey, they can run it however they want. They have to live with the results.


While I agree that the student rep is likely ill informed, lacks the strategic vision needed to set strategic policy, and not a good representation of the will of the students, I don't have any problem with them having a vote.

The system worked. The Board voted and their will prevailed. If it gets to the point where the student is the tie breaker then it is already so divisive of an issue that the student tipping the scales is inconsequential. The student can only be the deciding vote when there are large factions that are divided on the issue. The student vote breaking that deadlock is no different than any other Board member breaking the dead lock.

[Libertine]

While I agree that the student rep is likely ill informed, lacks the strategic vision needed to set strategic policy, and not a good representation of the will of the students, I don't have any problem with them having a vote.

The system worked. The Board voted and their will prevailed. If it gets to the point where the student is the tie breaker then it is already so divisive of an issue that the student tipping the scales is inconsequential. The student can only be the deciding vote when there are large factions that are divided on the issue. The student vote breaking that deadlock is no different than any other Board member breaking the dead lock.

Yes. Aside from describing a tie-breaking vote as "inconsequential", you're precisely outlining the problem.

[Catbooster]

No joke. They have very limited experience and therefore limited vision to be making this type of decision. It is a token vote to make the students feel like they have some power. They are not equiped to make these types of monumental decisions that could be so destructive or productive to a school. And to think that the person might actually represent the majority of students is silly in light of how many students probably even know they have a rep. A elected student body exec is one thing, a voting member on the board with actual serious power is totally different. They very well could have been the tie breaker as a person elected by 10% of the student body. But hey, they can run it however they want. They have to live with the results.
While I see your point, and somewhat agree with you, I'm not too sure the educators, administrators and/or public members of a Board of Trustees don't have limited experience and vision to make this type of decision as well. Seems as though often these proposals to drop football (or drop down a level) originate with professors who don't "get it". How do you propose to ensure the members of the Board of trustees all have the proper experience and vision (at least according to the opinions of a bunch of football fan forum members)? Should the criteria be different for a 20 year old student?

[Libertine]

While I see your point, and somewhat agree with you, I'm not too sure the educators, administrators and/or public members of a Board of Trustees don't have limited experience and vision to make this type of decision as well. Seems as though often these proposals to drop football (or drop down a level) originate with professors who don't "get it". How do you propose to ensure the members of the Board of trustees all have the proper experience and vision (at least according to the opinions of a bunch of football fan forum members)? Should the criteria be different for a 20 year old student?

Well, let's see. We've got:
* A software consultant with 40 years of experience and a certification in leadership who also serves on the board of another college
* A senior vice-president with 35 years of experience in community engagement in the banking industry
* A first-generation Mexican immigrant alumnus of EWU who has put two of his kids through EWU while serving in the Washington Dept of Labor and has helped to establish a scholarship fund at EWU to help first-generation immigrants attend
* A retired superior court judge who is now heavily involved in US Track and Field and has officiated at the Goodwill Games and the '96 Olympics
* A Native American who was born and raised on the Colville Indian Reservation and now holds two degrees from EWU and is heavily involved in entrepreneurship and history academia as well as advising the gaming industry
* A lawyer who has served as chief of staff and director of ecology for the governor of Washington
* A sitting US District Judge who was nominated to the position by Bill Clinton after serving as a trial attorney for more than two decades
* An 18-month veteran of the EWU resident life office

One of these is not like the others.

https://www.ewu.edu/about/leadership/bot/board-members/

[nodak651]

Well, let's see. We've got:
* A software consultant with 40 years of experience and a certification in leadership who also serves on the board of another college
* A senior vice-president with 35 years of experience in community engagement in the banking industry
* A first-generation Mexican immigrant alumnus of EWU who has put two of his kids through EWU while serving in the Washington Dept of Labor and has helped to establish a scholarship fund at EWU to help first-generation immigrants attend
* A retired superior court judge who is now heavily involved in US Track and Field and has officiated at the Goodwill Games and the '96 Olympics
* A Native American who was born and raised on the Colville Indian Reservation and now holds two degrees from EWU and is heavily involved in entrepreneurship and history academia as well as advising the gaming industry
* A lawyer who has served as chief of staff and director of ecology for the governor of Washington
* A sitting US District Judge who was nominated to the position by Bill Clinton after serving as a trial attorney for more than two decades
* An 18-month veteran of the EWU resident life office

One of these is not like the others.

https://www.ewu.edu/about/leadership/bot/board-members/

Completely agree. If there is a student board member it should always be the student body pres, imo. At least that person would be elected by the students. Not sure if this person was, but it sounds like they were appointed. If they were, I'm not sure how an argument can be made that this person actually represents the students viewpoints.

[Daytripper]

This reminds me of this Simpsons episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPc-VEqBPHI

It's like the quote attributed to Henry Ford: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

The notion that the students at EWU, by virtue of being customers, are the ones that know what the school needs misses the mark significantly.

The students at EWU are already customers. Customers are always going to say they would prefer lower prices. But these students who are already customers are already agreeing to pay the costs associated of enrolling. Thus the costs are not too high for them.

The school has a reputation of being a commuter school. Students in the metro area choose the school because of the low cost of attendance. This means that the school is already the best option for these students on a cost to quality ratio. Otherwise the students wouldn't be enrolling. It is already the low cost option.

The fact that the school has many local students who view it as a commuter school leads to a lack of engagement by the student body. This becomes most obvious in matters like student governance. Commuter schools have students that spend a limited amount of time on campus and don't become engaged in campus matters. They are largely apathetic. Which means that student government actually doesn't represent these students.

The students that tend to be involved in student government tend to be residential students or commuter students who want other commuter students to have a reason to stick around campus more and be engaged.

They all want to make the campus better. But what that means is vastly different depending on who you talk with.

What the school needs is to know why students are not enrolling at the school. And there is evidence that part of the reason students don't accept admissions is because of the attributes that attracted the local students.

A great way to engage with students is to engage with alumni. When you have people who leave the school staying engaged, especially the people who are in the local community, you build a sense of pride. It shifts from "I decided to go to EWU because it is a low cost option for me" and becomes "I chose EWU because it is the school I support."

Football has been a great tool to increase engagement for many schools. It gives the campus an identity on a few Saturday's and brings people to campus.

It is the type of event that makes prospective students willing to enroll despite living hours away when there is something to do on the weekends and people take pride in being a part of the school.


This, in large part, describes Sam Houston.