Patriot League AGS Poll

[carney2]

Fordham suggested this and I am merely following through. The coaches and SIDs had their shot. Now it's our turn. Simply list your predicted order of finish this year for the League, then sign off and get on with your lives. No commentary. No back and forth with "How could you pick them over us?," etc. Oh yeah, try not to be a homer.

All are welcome to participate. I will be gone for a week or so. When I get back I will compile, analyze and report. For the Patsy regulars we will keep track and award "attaboys" and "up yours" in November. I know most of the regulars, but if it isn't obvious, mention which school you are from because that will be part of the compilation process. Non-Patsy posters are welcome to participate, but at least have the courtesy to spell things correctly. A primer:

There is an "h" in Fordham.
Georgetown is not two words.
There are two Ls in Bucknell.
It's not La Fayette or even LaFayette

Here are my picks to get things started:

1. Lehigh
2. Lafayette
3. Colgate
4. Bucknell
5. Holy Cross
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[travelinman67]

1. Lehigh
2. Colgate
3. Lafayette
4. Holy Cross
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[Fordham]

1. Colgate
2. Lehigh
3. Holy Cross
4. Laffyette
5. Bucknel
6. Fordam
7. George Towne

[travelinman67]

1. Colgate
2. Lehigh
3. Holy Cross
4. Laffyette
5. Bucknel
6. Fordam
7. George Towne

xlolx xlolx xlolx xthumbsupx

[LeopardFan04]

1. Colgate
2. Lafayette
3. Lehigh
4. Holy Cross
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[TheValleyRaider]

Lehigh
Colgate
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Bucknell
Fordham
Georgetown

[colgate13]

Colgate
Lehigh
Lafayette
Holy Cross
Fordham
Bucknell
Georgetown

[flea]

1. Lehigh
2. Colgate
3. Lafayette
4. Holy Cross
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No love for Holy Cross!!!!!

You'll see mine when the College Sporting News magazine comes out...

[Sir William]

I'm from outside the Patriot League, but I'll give it a shot:

1) Lafayette
2) Holy Cross
3) Colgate
4) Lehigh
5) Fordham
6) Bucknell
7) Georgetown

[colorless raider]

Colgate
Lehigh
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Fordham
Bucknell
Georgetownxthumbsupx

[LUHawker]

Lehigh
Holy Cross
Lafayette (Tie)
Colgate (Tie)
Fordham
Bucknell
Georgetown

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

I'm from outside the Patriot League, but I'll give it a shot:

1) Lafayette
2) Holy Cross
3) Colgate
4) Lehigh
5) Fordham
6) Bucknell
7) Georgetown

Me, too, but here I go. Fordam is going to surprise. Their HC is a great coach & already is making progress. Same goes for Biddle, Pinkham, and Co. at Colgate.

Top 2 ('pards & 'gate) are interchangeable. Maybe a tie!

1. Colgate (8-3)
2. Lafayette (8-3)
3. Holy Cross (7-4)
4. Fordham (6-5)
5. Lehigh (5-6)
6. Bucknell (3-8)
7. Georgetown (1-10)

[Engineer91]

1. Lehigh
2. Colgate
3. Lafayette
4. Holy Cross
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[Pard94]

Lafayette
Colgate
Lehigh
Holy Cross
Bucknell
Fordham
Georgetown

[DFW HOYA]

7. Georgetown (1-10)

The support here is overwhelming. xlolx

Guess Lafayette doesn't want to be that one W on the books.

[breezy]

1. Holy Cross
2. Lehigh
3. Colgate
4. Lafayette
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[smallcollegefbfan]

1. Lafayette
2. Lehigh
3. Holy Cross
4. Colgate
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[OL FU]

1. Lafayette
2. Colgate
3 Lehigh
4 Holy Cross
5 Fordham
6. Bucknell
7. Georgetown


Not that I have a clue but is that suppose to stop mexsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

1. Lehigh
2. Holy Cross
3. Lafayette
4. Colgate
5. Bucknell
6. Georgetown
7. Fordham

[ngineer]

1. Lehigh
2. Colgate
3. Holy Cross
4. Lafayette
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[TheValleyRaider]

After one day of voting, here's a composite to see (with a simple "1st Place vote = 7 points, etc. through 7th=1):

Team (First Place Votes) Points
Lehigh (8) 106
Colgate (5) 104.5
Lafayette (4) 95.5
Holy Cross (1) 86
Bucknell 49
Fordham 42
Georgetown 19

People are more than free to check my math, as I am up far too late doing this xreadx

[RichH2]

OK, here goes

1) Lehigh
2)Holy Cross
3) Gate
4) Lafayette
5) Bucknell
6)Fordham
7) Georgetown

[Tribe4SF]

I'm interested to see if the Patriot can reverse last year's dismal OOC performance, and regain some respect. An important year for this conference, along with the Southland. As more and more schools make the move to scholarships, the Patriot needs to right the ship or their autobid will face increasing scrutiny.

[hvsader]

Holy Cross
Colgate
Lehigh
Bucknell
Lafayette
Fordham
Georgetown

[ngineer]

Holy Cross
Colgate
Lehigh
Bucknell
Lafayette
Fordham
Georgetown

Wow--now that would sure shake up the equilbrium!xnodx

[Pard4Life]

1. Colgate
2. Lafayette
3. Lehigh
4. Holy Cross
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7, Georgetown

[Lafalumni29]

Lafayette
Colgate
Lehigh
Fordham
Bucknell
Holy Cross
Gtown

[401ks]

1. Lafayette
2. Colgate
3. Holy Cross
4. Lehigh
5. Georgetown
6. Bucknell
7. Fordham

(SOMEONE had to put G'town better than last! :o )

[LBPop]

1. Lafayette
2. Colgate
3. Holy Cross
4. Lehigh
5. Georgetown
6. Bucknell
7. Fordham

(SOMEONE had to put G'town better than last! :o )

Given your AGS moniker, I will advise you to put very little of your retirement money on your PL picks. xlolx However, we Hoya faithful do appreciate your confidence (or misplaced faith). I will not pick an order of finish primarily because I believe that the rational pick would put the Hoyas in 7th place (it just sounds a little better than last place) and I just won't do that. My only comment about Georgetown is that the talent level is not as far below that of most of the league as would be suggested by their recent record. I say that as a reasonably knowledgeable football fan and a fairly educated PL fan. I continue to wonder why they don't win more and I have a few theories--nothing too brilliant, I assure you. But I truly believe that these guys are going to jump up and surprise some folks very soon.
I just hope it's this year so LBKid can enjoy it. xpeacex

[ngineer]

Given your AGS moniker, I will advise you to put very little of your retirement money on your PL picks. xlolx However, we Hoya faithful do appreciate your confidence (or misplaced faith). I will not pick an order of finish primarily because I believe that the rational pick would put the Hoyas in 7th place (it just sounds a little better than last place) and I just won't do that. My only comment about Georgetown is that the talent level is not as far below that of most of the league as would be suggested by their recent record. I say that as a reasonably knowledgeable football fan and a fairly educated PL fan. I continue to wonder why they don't win more and I have a few theories--nothing too brilliant, I assure you. But I truly believe that these guys are going to jump up and surprise some folks very soon.
I just hope it's this year so LBKid can enjoy it. xpeacex

I think a lot of PL posters would like to see Georgetown improve on its station in PL----JUST NOT OUR EXPENSE! (the football equivalent of NIMBY);)

[LBPop]

[/b]

I think a lot of PL posters would like to see Georgetown improve on its station in PL----JUST NOT OUR EXPENSE! (the football equivalent of NIMBY);)

But we play in your back yard. What's a Hoya to do? xrolleyesx :p

[Lafayette71]

1. Lafayette
2. Holy Cross
3. Lehigh
4. Bucknell
5. Colgate
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[bison137]

1. Lafayette
2. Lehigh
3t. Bucknell
3t. Colgate
3t. Holy Cross
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[CrusaderBob]

1. Holy Cross
2. Colgate
3. Lehigh
4t. Bucknell
4t. Lafayette
6. Georgetown
7. Fordham

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross
Lehigh
Fordham
Colgate
Lafayette
Bucknell
Georgetown

[carney2]

There hasn't been much activity of late, so let's think about closing the polls. What say that we close down at

Midnight (Eastern) on Friday the 10th.

The polls will then have been open for over a week. Even Dickie Daley couldn't pull that off in Chicago.

Here is how the voting has gone by school:

Bucknell: 1 voter
Colgate: 4
Fordham: 2
Georgetown: 1
Holy Cross: 3
Lafayette: 5
Lehigh: 5
OOC: 6

TOTAL = 27

Surprises:

Colgate, Lafayette and Lehigh: We used to see twice this many people for a thread entitled "Biddle/Tavani/Coen (pick one) has a cold." Where have you gone, Marcus Garvey et al.

LB posted (twice), but never voted.

3 'saders! Wasn't all that long ago that one would have been a miracle. Way to go, you purple guys.

One guy, who shall remain nameless, but who is from a school in Pennsylvania on the banks of the Delaware, in true Dickie Daley fashion, voted twice.

Whoever said it is right: "not much love for Georgetown" hereabouts.

[DFW HOYA]

Whoever said it is right: "not much love for Georgetown" hereabouts.

Some of it is just picking from last year's standings and some of it, frankly, is that many PL fans (and the papers that cover them) don't really know very much about the Georgetown program.

[TheValleyRaider]

From Keeper's ratings, found in a recently posted thread:

Holy Cross 6-0 9-2
Colgate 4-2 6-5
Lehigh 4-2 6-5
Lafayette 4-2 6-5
Bucknell 2-4 5-6
Georgetown 1-5 2-9
Fordham 0-6 2-9

[Franks Tanks]

My votes-

1.) Holy Cross
2.) Lehigh
3.) Lafayette
4.) Colgate
5.) Bucknell
6.) Fordham
7.) Georgetown

[LBPop]

Whoever said it is right: "not much love for Georgetown" hereabouts.

Hey Carney, I purposely passed on voting. My heart can't reconcile with my head, so I'm just gonna be at every game and root for the Blue & Gray. With respect to any "love" for Georgetown, I must write about something that I heard on a DC sports talk radio station last Friday. During a sports update, a young sounding reporter said the following:

"The USA Today just released its pre-season NCAA football top 25 list. Neither Maryland nor Georgetown received votes."

I must admit that while driving in my car I laughed out loud and then almost cried. Heck, the Hoyas can't get any votes for the Patriot League on the AGS board...xlolx

I think this winter I'm going to send out a news release that says, "The Super Tuesday Presidential Primaries were held yesterday and LBPop did not receive any votes." :D

[ngineer]

Hey Carney, I purposely passed on voting. My heart can't reconcile with my head, so I'm just gonna be at every game and root for the Blue & Gray. With respect to any "love" for Georgetown, I must write about something that I heard on a DC sports talk radio station last Friday. During a sports update, a young sounding reporter said the following:

"The USA Today just released its pre-season NCAA football top 25 list. Neither Maryland nor Georgetown received votes."

I must admit that while driving in my car I laughed out loud and then almost cried. Heck, the Hoyas can't get any votes for the Patriot League on the AGS board...xlolx

I think this winter I'm going to send out a news release that says, "The Super Tuesday Presidential Primaries were held yesterday and LBPop did not receive any votes." :D

Not to deviate, but the way things are going the primaries maybe held around the FCS Championship game!xrotatehx

[Ivytalk]

1. Lehigh
2. Holy Cross
3. Colgate
4. Lafayette
5. Bucknell
6. Georgetown
7. Fordham

[ngineer]

1. Lehigh
2. Holy Cross
3. Colgate
4. Lafayette
5. Bucknell
6. Georgetown
7. Fordham


Warm the cockles of my heart....xnodx :D

[Ivytalk]

Warm the cockles of my heart....xnodx :D

I always try to be polite to my hosts!;) :D

[ColgateTD]

1. Holy Cross
2. Colgate
3. Lehigh
4. Lafayette
5. Bucknell
6. Georgetown
7. Fordham

[carney2]

The Polls Are Closed

Any ballots after this reply will not be counted.

[carney2]

Points are awarded: 7 for first, 6 for second, 5 for third, etc.

Tie votes were awarded equal points for each team. i.e., If a voter selected a two-way tie for 3rd place, each team received 5 points.

First place votes are shown in parenthesis.

The election committee gathered around a fine bottle of single barrel bourbon and decided that those people from Chicago who voted more than once would have only their first ballot included in the final count.

Here are the results:

ALL VOTERS (30)
1. Lehigh (10) 174
2. Colgate (6) 168
3. Lafayette (8) 157
4. Holy Cross (6) 155
5. Bucknell 88
6. Fordham 67
7. Georgetown 36

PATRIOT LEAGUE VOTERS ONLY (23)
1. Lehigh (8) 138
2. Colgate (5) 131
3. Holy Cross (6) 118
4. Lafayette (4) 114
5. Bucknell 71
6. Fordham 52
7. Georgetown 25

NON-PATRIOT LEAGUE VOTERS ONLY (7)
1. Lafayette (4) 43
2. (Tie) Colgate (1) 37
2. (Tie) Holy Cross 37
4. Lehigh (2) 36
5. Bucknell 17
6. Fordham 15
7. Georgetown 11

THE HOMER VOTE (Votes By School)

Bucknell (1 Voter)
1. Lafayette (1) 7
2. Lehigh 6
3. (Tie) Bucknell 5
3. (tie) Colgate 5
3. (Tie) Holy Cross 5
6. Fordham 2
7. Georgetown 1

Colgate (5 Voters)
1. (Tie) Colgate (2) 30
1. (Tie) Lehigh (1) 30
3. Holy Cross (2) 28
4. Lafayette 20
5. Fordham 14
6. Bucknell 12
7. Georgetown 6

Georgetown (0 Voters)

Holy Cross (3 Voters)
1. Holy Cross (3) 21
2. Colgate 17
3. Lehigh 16
4. (Tie) Bucknell 11
4. (Tie) Lafayette 11
6. Fordham 5
7. Georgetown 4

Lafayette (7 Voters)
1. Lafayette (3) 44
2. (Tie) Colgate (2) 38
2. (Tie) Lehigh (1) 38
4. Holy Cross (1) 30
5. Bucknell 23
6. Fordham 16
7. Georgetown 7

Lehigh (5 Voters)
1. Lehigh (5) 35
2. Colgate 28
3. Holy Cross 25
4. Lafayette 23
5. Bucknell 14
6. Fordham 11
7. Georgetown 5

[colgate13]

LOVE the homer vote breakdown! xlolx

[carney2]

LOVE the homer vote breakdown!

Not me. I guess I shouldn't have been, but I was a little surprised at how much of a "homer" vote it turned out to be. I always got the impression that the regulars here were more kowledgeable than the average fan, more analytical, and saw more of the big picture. I guess not. More than a little disappointed in that aspect of it.

[Lehigh74]

Not me. I guess I shouldn't have been, but I was a little surprised at how much of a "homer" vote it turned out to be. I always got the impression that the regulars here were more kowledgeable than the average fan, more analytical, and saw more of the big picture. I guess not. More than a little disappointed in that aspect of it.

I think one of the problems is that we all tend to know more about the team at our school than we do about the others. This fact can lead to a biased vote.

[Pard94]

Not me. I guess I shouldn't have been, but I was a little surprised at how much of a "homer" vote it turned out to be. I always got the impression that the regulars here were more kowledgeable than the average fan, more analytical, and saw more of the big picture. I guess not. More than a little disappointed in that aspect of it.

Oh ease up Carney...as close as everything is in the league this year of course we're going to vote for the home teams.

[carney2]

Oh ease up Carney...as close as everything is in the league this year of course we're going to vote for the home teams.

There's my conscience again. Most people have a little character with wings and a halo sitting on one shoulder and another little guy with horns and a pitchfork on the other. I, on the other hand, have to carry this 94 guy around on BOTH shoulders. Life can be so unfair.

[Pard94]

There's my conscience again. Most people have a little character with wings and a halo sitting on one shoulder and another little guy with horns and a pitchfork on the other. I, on the other hand, have to carry this 94 guy around on BOTH shoulders. Life can be so unfair.

Now Carney, first of all, when have I ever advised to ever root against Lafayette? I sit squarely on the Lafayette shoulder and no other. Secondly, if ever I actually sat on any of your shoulders...your spine would collapse like a telescope.xnodx

[LehighIn2007]

1. Lehigh
2. Lafayette
3. Colgate
4. Holy Cross
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

[carney2]

1. Lehigh
2. Lafayette
3. Colgate
4. Holy Cross
5. Bucknell
6. Fordham
7. Georgetown

Even after the polls close we're still getting homer ballots. xsmiley_wix

[LehighIn2007]

Sorry, i didn't know the polls were closed. Lehigh is the best team anyway.

[colgate13]

Sorry, i didn't know the polls were closed. Lehigh is the best team anyway.

xlolx

[RichH2]

Well, timing is everything. It should be a very interesting yr and crucial as to OOC games.

AI study s/b don e and in now When if ever will it be released?

[carney2]

Well, timing is everything. It should be a very interesting yr and crucial as to OOC games.

AI study s/b don e and in now When if ever will it be released?

I can't imagine that the study will become public information. The closest we will get to that is when/if the League presidents approve changes to the current system.

The AI is a biggie, but the scholarship issue dwarfs everything in my opinion. What is everyone's best guess as to when that will be tackled? Colgate13 ventured a guess of 2010 during an uncharacteristically lucid moment for His Homership. I'm holding him to it because it sounds pretty realistic sitting comfortably here in 2007.

[RichH2]

Lucid and Colgate 13 in the same sentence , my oh my ,what is the world coming to? Altho, I mut admit I missed him while he was off the board.

2010 is too easy a mark. Would imagine that AI and schollies will be #1 in December.

I think they will phase schollies in with rising limits until PL reaches whatever level decided on. Gradual increase to avoid some schools ,with a bit less funding or other specifc limits , from being blown out of the water by those that will go to the max permitted immediately

[carney2]

Lucid and Colgate 13 in the same sentence , my oh my ,what is the world coming to? Altho, I mut admit I missed him while he was off the board.

2010 is too easy a mark. Would imagine that AI and schollies will be #1 in December.

I think they will phase schollies in with rising limits until PL reaches whatever level decided on. Gradual increase to avoid some schools ,with a bit less funding or other specifc limits , from being blown out of the water by those that will go to the max permitted immediately

Say it aint so. That could mean a decade before this thing shakes out. I realize that the road taken with basketball scholarships (pretty much: go nuts if you want to; don't if you don't) won't work here because of the sheer size of a football program and the inability/unwillingness of some members to move in that direction, but there has to be a better way.

[colgate13]

Why phase things? We're all spending a lot of money except for G'Town. Schools can choose to be a 40 schollies or 55 or 60 or whatever. Money discrepancies exist now. Scholarships are just a different way of deciding HOW to spend the money, not HOW MUCH money to spend.

[carney2]

xreadx
Why phase things? We're all spending a lot of money except for G'Town. Schools can choose to be a 40 schollies or 55 or 60 or whatever. Money discrepancies exist now. Scholarships are just a different way of deciding HOW to spend the money, not HOW MUCH money to spend.

You're dealing with college administrators. Don't confuse them by using logical arguments.

[Fordham]

any risk that they use this "opportunity" as a way to trim back budgets? Agree to a lower ship number (as opposed to gate13's option of just rolling into schollies w/current budgets) and most PL schools get the chance to trim back what they would have given in aid?

This is simply my 'having worked for a big company pessism' coming through.

[carney2]

In other words, one step forward, one step back, and two steps to the side. This is not a particularly uplifting exchange.

[ngineer]

In other words, one step forward, one step back, and two steps to the side. This is not a particularly uplifting exchange.

But he makes a good point that when the pointy-headed ivory tower types get together, you never know what may come out--..I could see some sort of 'compromise' to appease the anti-sports faction that exist at every campus.

[colgate13]

The good news is we don't all have pointy head types leading are ships at the moment. Chopp, Weiss, the guy at BU... they are by and large pro-athletics.

As for appeasement, what got the deal done at Colgate for other sports was the demonstration that you don't have to cast as wide a net with scholarships, so the total amount of stretch admits can go down. With football, if any given year a PL team needs to bring in almost 40 guys with the equivalent of 15-17 equivalencies you can lower that number by 5-7 guys IMO over the same number of equivalencies. Over four years, that's 20-28 former football stretches that are now back in the regular admission pool. At our small schools, that's not a number to scoff at - especially when you can demonstrate that bringing up the 'bottom' of a class has more bang for your buck than getting a few more kids with 2400 SATs or whatever. There is so much focus in admissions about bringing in the smarter kid, stealing the kid from Middlebury or whatever, but if you can knock out some of the bottom, the impact is huge.

When faculty get their heads around this idea, most catch on. The ones that don't are hung up on ideology.

[RichH2]

13

Pointy heads to the side, I think your view makes the most sense.

Even were the PL to limit grants to 30 with no phase in period each school could continue their need recruiting with the added flex of less stretches and better overall academics ie we win some against the Ivies

[AndrewFU21]

The PL race is one of the most intriguing to me. I haven't really watched any of these teams so I'm pretty much going by stats.

Colgate- despite struggling last year, they had the best defense in the PL, and outgained opponents by 20 ypg. They have the best running back in the league coming back, but have to replace starting QB and 4 of top 5 tacklers. I don't know what kind of options they have a QB but they could be better this year.

HC- had the best yardage in the PL, outgaining foes by 50 ypg, and had the best offense. The QB is back along with the top 3 receivers so they should score a lot of points this year. They do return just 13 starters so there are some ?'s.

Bucknell- sleeper pick, they were pretty solid last year and have 17 starters back. They run the ball well, but they had by far the worst defense last year.

Fordham- beat Albany last year but otherwise stunk it up. They have a lot of people back but you have to score more than 14 points a game.

Georgetown- seems like they have a long way to go. Their QB had a 15/8 TD/INT ratio so maybe they can build off that.

Lafayette- can they do it again? I guess the safe bet in a tight race is to go with the incumbent but they have a lot to replace: top QB, RB, and WR.

Lehigh- only 5 starters backxeekx . They do have the preseason POY Sedale Threatt(great name for a QB).


Conclusion: who the heck know?xconfusedx It should be another close race and probably at least a two-way tie for first, but I think I'll go with Holy Cross given the players they have back.

Good luck to you guys this year and I look forward to the Paladins heading up to Colgate next yearxthumbsupx

[carney2]

The PL race is one of the most intriguing to me. I haven't really watched any of these teams so I'm pretty much going by stats.

Colgate- despite struggling last year, they had the best defense in the PL, and outgained opponents by 20 ypg. They have the best running back in the league coming back, but have to replace starting QB and 4 of top 5 tacklers. I don't know what kind of options they have a QB but they could be better this year.

HC- had the best yardage in the PL, outgaining foes by 50 ypg, and had the best offense. The QB is back along with the top 3 receivers so they should score a lot of points this year. They do return just 13 starters so there are some ?'s.

Bucknell- sleeper pick, they were pretty solid last year and have 17 starters back. They run the ball well, but they had by far the worst defense last year.

Fordham- beat Albany last year but otherwise stunk it up. They have a lot of people back but you have to score more than 14 points a game.

Georgetown- seems like they have a long way to go. Their QB had a 15/8 TD/INT ratio so maybe they can build off that.

Lafayette- can they do it again? I guess the safe bet in a tight race is to go with the incumbent but they have a lot to replace: top QB, RB, and WR.

Lehigh- only 5 starters backxeekx . They do have the preseason POY Sedale Threatt(great name for a QB).


Conclusion: who the heck know?xconfusedx It should be another close race and probably at least a two-way tie for first, but I think I'll go with Holy Cross given the players they have back.

Good luck to you guys this year and I look forward to the Paladins heading up to Colgate next yearxthumbsupx

Well done. Questions abound and opinions are like noses - everyone has one. Each team's supporters will tell you (in fact, has already told us) why their football warriors can't be beaten. There is only one thing of which we can be certain:

only one of these groups will be right.

[Seawolf97]

Why phase things? We're all spending a lot of money except for G'Town. Schools can choose to be a 40 schollies or 55 or 60 or whatever. Money discrepancies exist now. Scholarships are just a different way of deciding HOW to spend the money, not HOW MUCH money to spend.


Just to put my 2 cents into the mix. Stonybrook took the plunge to a full scholarship program and will be near the max in 2008 playing in the Big South. 2010 they play Rutgers as a counter team. Are they going to take their lumps -yup, are they going to win a few big ones ? You can count on it.

[colorless raider]

The good news is we don't all have pointy head types leading are ships at the moment. Chopp, Weiss, the guy at BU... they are by and large pro-athletics.

As for appeasement, what got the deal done at Colgate for other sports was the demonstration that you don't have to cast as wide a net with scholarships, so the total amount of stretch admits can go down. With football, if any given year a PL team needs to bring in almost 40 guys with the equivalent of 15-17 equivalencies you can lower that number by 5-7 guys IMO over the same number of equivalencies. Over four years, that's 20-28 former football stretches that are now back in the regular admission pool. At our small schools, that's not a number to scoff at - especially when you can demonstrate that bringing up the 'bottom' of a class has more bang for your buck than getting a few more kids with 2400 SATs or whatever. There is so much focus in admissions about bringing in the smarter kid, stealing the kid from Middlebury or whatever, but if you can knock out some of the bottom, the impact is huge.

When faculty get their heads around this idea, most catch on. The ones that don't are hung up on ideology.

Scholarships are not going to help if they shut the door on "stretch admits". Most of our impact players have been in that category and without them forget it. We are in a "no-win" positon getting squezzed at both ends. I am not so sure how pro-athletics Chopp is. She talks the talk she must now walk it!

[colgate13]

Scholarships are not going to help if they shut the door on "stretch admits". Most of our impact players have been in that category and without them forget it. We are in a "no-win" positon getting squezzed at both ends. I am not so sure how pro-athletics Chopp is. She talks the talk she must now walk it!
Not shutting the door - just less of them as a whole. Say if before we needed 3 RBs who where stretch admits to get someone who turns into Jordan Scott. If we have a scholarship, maybe there are 2 RBs who are more blue chip type guys that aren't 'projects'. There's one less stretch admit.

Do the same thing for the OL, QB, LB, and DB and there's 5 less stretches needed in a year.

[DFW HOYA]

OK, then, this proposal: drop the AI altogether and leave it to each school's admissions office.

Comments?

[ngineer]

OK, then, this proposal: drop the AI altogether and leave it to each school's admissions office.

Comments?

If the purpose of the PL was to assure that all of our players are a good representation of our student bodies, then I think some type of AI is needed. Otherwise, without some kind of barometer there would be no basis to hold each other to a standard.

[colorless raider]

Not shutting the door - just less of them as a whole. Say if before we needed 3 RBs who where stretch admits to get someone who turns into Jordan Scott. If we have a scholarship, maybe there are 2 RBs who are more blue chip type guys that aren't 'projects'. There's one less stretch admit.

Do the same thing for the OL, QB, LB, and DB and there's 5 less stretches needed in a year.

So it still does not work. DFW is right throw out the AI and while you are at it throw out certain Admissions directors.

[colgate13]

So it still does not work. DFW is right throw out the AI and while you are at it throw out certain Admissions directors.

I missing your point (besides the Admission dean comment!).

I wasn't saying that is the only stretch given, just that you need less of them overall with scholarships. This was done already for other sports.

[colgate13]

OK, then, this proposal: drop the AI altogether and leave it to each school's admissions office.

Comments?

I've got no problem with that. If PL school X really wants to bring in someone who is not going to be able to hack it academically, so be it. There's a lot of problems there if they do.