Great quote on why FCS is the best

[patssle]

From Todd Whitten, SHSU head coach


TW: Absolutely. I've coached in five different conferences, and this is the toughest gig I've had in terms of week in and week out. Everyday Saturday when you play, you have a chance to get beat. That's not the case in the Big 12. The University of Texas probably has two or three games a year when they just know they're going to win, unless a miracle happens. Every Saturday, we play evenly-matched teams, which surprises nobody who wins every Saturday in our league.

http://blogs.chron.com/areacolleges/2007/07/swac_or_slc_which_is_better_at.html

[Ronbo]

Well my. The same thing could have been said by a HS coach. Would that make High School football the best? LOL Wouldn't quality of athletes, quality of coaches, quality of facilities, and attendance and fan support be better indicators of who is best?

[patssle]

lets not overanalyze. every level has its advantages and disadvantages.

[Grizaholic17]

I agree with the statement, more talent and quality of coaches and facilities is in the upper division, but in terms of playing teams that can beat you at a moments notice is so true. Happens to the grizzlies all the time...when surprise teams come out and play the game of their life to beat you.

[Ronbo]

A funny thing happened on the Idaho message board last year. One of the Idaho posters started a poll that asked two questions. Here is the results as I remember them.

The Vandals should give up on IA and go back to the Big Sky. 5%

The Vandals should stick it out in IA. 95%

I've met many Idaho fans during our series with them and they are great fans, very knowledgable, they travel well and are passionate. They are not stupid. Why in the world would they not want to be back in the Big Sky? Any clues why once they leave they never come back even when they go 3-9 year after year after year?

I dare any of you to post this poll on E. Michigan's, Buffalo's, Troy's, or any other IA doormat and see what they vote. You might add "We should just drop football" as a third choice as that will beat out "Let's go back to FCS (I-AA)."

[89Hen]

Any clues why once they leave they never come back even when they go 3-9 year after year after year?
Ego? False hope? Appearance? :p

[patssle]

xrolleyesx

[Ronbo]

Ego? False hope? Appearance? :p

When does losing overwhelm the ego? Is it ego or the fact that they are playing excellent football teams week after week? Is it ego or the quality of the product that is being presented on the field? Idaho vs. Fresno State, Idaho vs. Hawaii, Idaho vs. Boise State sure beats out Montana vs. Southern Utah, Montana vs. Fort Lewis, and Montana vs. Albany,

[89Hen]

Is it ego or the quality of the product that is being presented on the field? Idaho vs. Fresno State, Idaho vs. Hawaii, Idaho vs. Boise State sure beats out Montana vs. Southern Utah, Montana vs. Fort Lewis, and Montana vs. Albany,
So you're going to pick their best games and your worst (except Albany will be more competition than SacSt). xrolleyesx

[PMB4Life]

Mr. Ronbo, it appears your argument is specious.

With your logic, I could ward off tigers with rocks. You don't see any tigers around me, do you?

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I am with Ronbo on this for the most part, even if I don't completely agree with his way of arguing the point. I would point to the fact that everyone talks up "What BCS team are you playing this year?" and the "What chance do we have to beat _________? (Fill in w/ your state's marquee program)" threads every year as proof that we all love to play the best, most well-know and respected programs and coaches in the country. If JMU were playing against the ACC week in or week out or even the MAC, it would be a step up in competition and recognition nationally for our sport and our school. However, I love the academic association with the other CAA schools as well as the rivalries.

Point is, we all want to play vs. the best. Boise St. dreamed of the game they had last year. We all have the same dream for our schools, and if you're not dreaming of that day, then it is sad indeed. We should all strive to have such fan bases, student athletes, and media attention that increases the publicity of our favorite educational institutions.

The SLC will surerly have great competition week-in, week out. Montana would rather get crushed again by Oregon than play Ft. Lewis (maybe?, maybe not on this one... :P ). Albany will continue to improve and put up a good fight vs. the Griz and turn heads among those in FCS. But lets not forget that we all strive for the best for our schools. For some that is staying small, for others it is growing into a larger program that can fight the Oklahomas, Texas, Virginia Techs, Miami, Michigans and Ohio States of the world of college football. To each their own. The end.

[Ronbo]

I'm supposed to take any of this "we're the best" talk on this board seriously. It's laughable. Like App. State being voted overwhelmingly as having the best gameday in FCS. Bahahahahaha! I'm sure it's good but come on, I'll wager if you had 100 unbiased fans attend games at App. State and Montana we would win 95-5.

You guys have a bad case of little man's disease. I know what Montana and FCS is and I'm not going to pretend it's something else. It is what it is. Small time football boys. I enjoy it but that's what it is.

[JohnStOnge]

I've met many Idaho fans during our series with them and they are great fans, very knowledgable, they travel well and are passionate. They are not stupid. Why in the world would they not want to be back in the Big Sky? Any clues why once they leave they never come back even when they go 3-9 year after year after year?

I dare any of you to post this poll on E. Michigan's, Buffalo's, Troy's, or any other IA doormat and see what they vote. You might add "We should just drop football" as a third choice as that will beat out "Let's go back to FCS (I-AA)."

The "why" is ego. For the most part, communities associated with I-AA schools who have gone I-A fantasize about their football programs being something they're not and can never be. I don't know if "stupid" is the word. "Unrealistic" might be it.

[JohnStOnge]

You guys have a bad case of little man's disease. I know what Montana and FCS is and I'm not going to pretend it's something else. It is what it is. Small time football boys. I enjoy it but that's what it is.

I think that the "little man's disease" is on the part of schools and communities of schools like most of those that have moved from I-AA to I-A in the past.

A school like, for instance, Montana has indentified the level at which it can truely compete in the mainstream and be at least reasonably among the best. Schools like Troy and Idaho insist on playing at a level at which they don't belong. They're trying to be something they're not.

A school like...say...McNeese is comfortable with what it is. Yes, it's small time football. So, for the most part is the football played by schools who have moved from I-AA to I-A. With very rare exception, big time college football is the BCS leagues and Notre Dame. Boise State is not big time college football. The interest associated with it right now is due to the fact that a small time program beat a big time program in a BCS bowl game. But Boise State is not a "big time" college football program. itself. It's a football program that's gone 4 -11 against teams from the "Big Time" BCS since the BCS started in 1998.

The only programs that have moved from I-AA to I-A that are "Big Time" now are UConn and South Florida. And, if I were a member of an FCS school community contemplating a move to FBS, I wouldn't hold my breath over having what happened to those two happening to my own school.

[youwouldno]

A lot of football fans have penis envy. It's that simple. People like ronbo are case in point of this. They also do not tend to be among the more intelligent football fans.

One thing that a lot of people don't realize is that the days of massive institutional growth are almost over. The peak year will be 2009. After that, the number of students and thus the number of new alumni will begin to decline.

The choice will be to maintain the student body size, and drop in the rankings, or reduce size to maintain academic standards.

[Blue42]

I think the key point here on why no fan base in FBS would want to return to FCS is that Americans are by and large aspirational.

They very seldomly, if ever, want to take a step back to something lesser than what they've had. Even if they might be better off in some way.

How many people stay in houses they can't afford (see subprime lending meltdown) or stay in jobs they hate because they can't stand the thought of stepping back down a rung on the ladder.

Fans will find a way to believe that somehow, someway their team will find a way to get over the hump and be competitive in FBS level ftball if they just get that new coach, better recruit, lucky break, etc.

That said, I have learned to love FCS football for what it is and also learned, for the reasons stated above and general disinterest and marginal depth of knowledge of many sports fans in my market, that to debate the merits of FCS football with FBS fans is time wasted.

[patssle]

that to debate the merits of FCS football with FBS fans is time wasted.

no kidding. I posted this just for another perspective. FCS has some advantages. FBS has other advantages. But people want to argue over it.

Guess what being a fan is? Loving your team, league, and level over others. You think your team is the best. Arguing against it achieves nothing.

[Grizalltheway]

A lot of football fans have penis envy. It's that simple. People like ronbo are case in point of this. They also do not tend to be among the more intelligent football fans.

One thing that a lot of people don't realize is that the days of massive institutional growth are almost over. The peak year will be 2009. After that, the number of students and thus the number of new alumni will begin to decline.

The choice will be to maintain the student body size, and drop in the rankings, or reduce size to maintain academic standards.

Why would the number of students decline? Is the population of the US declining? This isn't Europe. xrulesx

[CID1990]

Personally, I like seeing Marshall be mediocre. They deserve it. If they ever decide to come back to FCS, I say we make them donate obscene sums of money to every other SoCon school's booster clubs.

[mvemjsunpx]

A funny thing happened on the Idaho message board last year. One of the Idaho posters started a poll that asked two questions. Here is the results as I remember them.

The Vandals should give up on IA and go back to the Big Sky. 5%

The Vandals should stick it out in IA. 95%

I've met many Idaho fans during our series with them and they are great fans, very knowledgable, they travel well and are passionate. They are not stupid. Why in the world would they not want to be back in the Big Sky? Any clues why once they leave they never come back even when they go 3-9 year after year after year?

I dare any of you to post this poll on E. Michigan's, Buffalo's, Troy's, or any other IA doormat and see what they vote. You might add "We should just drop football" as a third choice as that will beat out "Let's go back to FCS (I-AA)."


Idaho probably doesn't want to come back to the Big Sky because they don't want to annually lose to Montana again.

But, seriously, you can't argue moving up was the right decision for Idaho, can you? They haven't had a decent year since 1998, they have easily the smallest stadium in FBS, & their fan support is tepid.
Vandal football used to be a big thing, now it's just an embarrassment.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Yeah, but Idaho could have become just as bad over the years in FCS as well.

Also, student populations are not dwindling and I'm not sure where this peak idea on student pop. comes from, especially so long as the immigrant populations keep increasing. Maybe you live in the rust belt? I could see certain youth populations dying in certain parts of the country, but not in others.

I know for our institution, we expect 20-24K (up from 18K) over the next few years. After 2009? It all depends on alumni funding and how much the State connects their funds to the university based on acceptance rates. JMU's need for funds and Virginia's need for high quality higher ed. has created the 50% increase in student population over the past 10-15 years or so. Virginia Tech used to be in the same boat, but they now join the ranks of W&M and UVA in schools that can afford to say no to the General Assembly's demands and pay to keep their schools smaller.

Bottom line, that quote was not a great quote on why FCS is the best.xcoffeex

[putter]

No one at any school would want to admit a mistake and move back down a division, a la, Idaho. They open up with USC this year and while the Idaho teams that played in the FCS could have beaten the Idaho teams now in the FBS, there is no way that USC would have even given the Vandellas the time of day if they were still in FCS. USC vs. Ft. Lewis, 3-9 vs 11-2 is a trade-off some are willing to take.