Patriot League: Offseason Review, 2007

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just in time for media day: my exhaustive view of the Patriot League offseason for 2007. Includes a peek at incoming classes, spring games, and the biggest shoes to fill for every team.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com

And also, a nod to carney2, the curmudgeon himself! :p

[carney2]

curmudgeon: a surly, ill-mannered, bad-tempered person; cantankerous fellow.

That's me, alright.

Oh yeah, your grades for incoming classes were way too generous in many cases, and way too self-serving in others.

Other than that, your usual great job.

[Pard94]

Just in time for media day: my exhaustive view of the Patriot League offseason for 2007. Includes a peek at incoming classes, spring games, and the biggest shoes to fill for every team.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com

And also, a nod to carney2, the curmudgeon himself! :p

Let me get this straight...Lehigh's incoming class gets a A grade and Lafayette's incoming class gets a league low C?? You are the only person I have seen to suggest that Lafayette's class isn't top 2 in the league this year...and you have them last. xeyebrowx

A couple of points of clarification...Tavani held an open try out because he happened to tryout for the same Philadelphia Eagles team as Vince Papale (sp?), the inspiration for the Mark Whalberg movie Invincible. He was connected to him and inspired by him. Also it was a shrewd PR move to get student body more involved with the football program on the heels of that movie.

Secondly, regarding the academic index...have you ever known any coach to do anything less than declare their current recruting class the best in the league??? Doubt it. It would be a dereliction of duty not to do so. Add to the fact that Tavani is one of the best coaches in the league and you are pretty much assured Tavani was not casting stones at his current class. I'm confident he was harping on the academic index becasue the system is flawed and he would very much like to move to a better system...namely full scholarships. Lafayette has quickly jumped out to the front of the pack in blazing that trail. To do so you are going to have to rock the boat a little (if I may mix my metaphors).

I am generally a fan of your work LFN but I'm afraid you come off as a big homer in this one.

[Leopard Man]

I use to think you were a classy dude,I change my mind.You arent an objective journalist and i hope the rest of the ags posters boycot your blog.Even your good pal RichH agreed after Andy pointed out to him Lafayette had the most rated recruits,Lafayette probably had the best incoming class.Now go do some homework on the incoming classes and regrade them!IM pissed

[RichH2]

Geez, Leopard man , whether Carney and I agree about any recruiting class has absolutely nothiing to do with anyone else's opinion. LFN is a "classy dude" and gave his review of the PL offseason. He is exceptionalyy well versed. While many may not agree with his conclusions be very careful 0f dismissing them as biased.
Carney and I agreed that LC had more rated recruits than did LU which under the Patsy rating system gave LC the best recruiting class.

Try to remember that the system is for summer fun and cannot realistically predict the ultimate success of any class.
LFN does his own review of recruits and has his own bases for his opinions. You seem to imply that LFN has to use Carney's system or be limited by my opinions.

This is year 1 of the carney recruit evaluation system (CRES)lol.

which I heartily endorse, we'll see in a couple of years how accurate we are.

But it is quite wrong of you to accuse LFN with a lack of objectivism and to try to rebut his opinions with That of mine and Carney.

I happen to agree with LFN that LU's class is better for us as I think Coen did a better job filling needs with better players. LC's class is superb and that I think LU's is better is not to denigrate yours.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thanks, RichH, for having my back. (Maybe I should have put a giant "for entertainment purposes only" on the post.)

Second, one of the things I'm wondering about in Easton is the following statement (http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-realities-part-i.html):


''In the end, because the pool has gotten smaller because of the increased standards, we are diluting the talent level of the league. Now, when you say that, someone is going to split their pants. But it's the truth.''

Tavani offers three possible scenarios.

''You either have to go merit aid and cut down on the size of the squads, or you have to lower your standards, or your Step 3 is keep it the same and watch the level of play diminish,'' he said. ''There are no other answers. I've said that privately many times and I don't mind saying it in public.''

If I'm a recruit going to Lafayette for the class of 2011, how am I supposed to interpret this? My coach feels like the talent level is diminished over years past. Maybe kids don't care, but I'm just wondering.

There is some nice press on some of these kids, sure. But I'm not looking at Rivals rankings. I'm trying to divine needs and who they got, and I'm not at all sure they got speed (DB/WR) and size (DL especially) across the board that they're going to need.

And, again, this is for entertainment purposes only.

[carney2]

LFN commented on a lot more than recruiting, so I'm not sure how it got to be the centerpiece of this discussion. Anyway, RichH is right, LFN and I used different methodologies and different viewpoints. Off the top of my head I see two major differences between LFN's grades and PRS (Patsy Rating System) grades:

1. LFN factored "meeting needs" into his rating. PRS was "by the numbers."

2. LFN used some of his experience and gut feel in arriving at his grades. PRS was "by the numbers."

For the record, a critique of the PRS in May and June seemed to produce agreement that future editions (if any) should find some way of including "meeting needs" in the ratings.

Anyway, translating the PRS scores to some sort of letter grading system for comparison purposes we get:

Bucknell: LFN = C+/B-; PRS = B-

Colgate: LFN = B; PRS = B

Fordham: LFN = B-; PRS = B

Georgetown: LFN = B; PRS = C-

Holy Cross: LFN = B+; PRS = D-

Lafayette: LFN = C; PRS = A

Lehigh: LFN = A; PRS = A-

Four of the seven are pretty much in agreement. Only two are truly worlds apart. If you can make anything of this, you are a better man than I.

[Pards Rule]

Nice to see the grandson of Don Shula, Matt, playing for the Leopards!

[RichH2]

It will be interesting to see how much impact Shula and mara have over the next 4-5 years. getting Fordham back into the top of the PL can only help with the coverage of the PL in New York.
Overall I think the PL improved its recruit classes this year . Whether that can continue consistently will be the key to our league's survival aa a viable national conference.

[Pard94]

As I said, I am a fan of LFN but when the only two assesments that are worlds apart are Lafayette and Lehigh and the discrepancy benefits Lehigh and the author graduated from (say it with me now) Lehigh...one could argue that it smacks of "homerism". And let's not pretend that Frank Tavani is the only person who has noted the changing landscape vis a vis Ivy League vs. PL recruiting. I could easily go back and pull quotes of Tavani extholing the virtues of this incoming class. I think it is fair to say he is talking about emerging trends and possible outcomes. At no time did I get the sense that he was pointing to his incoming class as evidence of the trend. To suggest that is specious at best. And, again, the open tryout argument is just funny. I think three kids tried out and I think one may have gotten an invitation to have a go at Spring Ball. Hardly the act of a desperate coach searching for answers.

[RichH2]

I don't know how greek mythology got involved here, Since LFN's analysis is not based on numbers, unless he agrees with you it will always be considered biased as he is from Lehigh.

What difference does it make? It is his opinion as LEHIGH FOOTBALL NATION not as a columnist. His journalist's opinion may agree with you or not.

[Pard94]

I don't know how greek mythology got involved here, Since LFN's analysis is not based on numbers, unless he agrees with you it will always be considered biased as he is from Lehigh.

What difference does it make? It is his opinion as LEHIGH FOOTBALL NATION not as a columnist. His journalist's opinion may agree with you or not.

I'm not sure if that's the defense he is looking for. I suspect LFN fancies himself impartial when it comes to his column...at least that's how I used to think of him.

[TheValleyRaider]

If the rivalry is as fierce as both of you constantly claim it is, can he ever really be partial? xrolleyesx

Some of the Pards here need to get a bit of a grip. So he doesn't like your recruiting, big deal. His and carney's systems are just guesses at this point. I think carney's well-intentioned concerns for our program are a bit overblown, but he's entitled to his own opinion. And we're entitled to push it back in his face when Colgate battles Lafayette in the future xeekx :p

Just over a month until kickoff....

[carney2]

we're entitled to push it back in his face when Colgate battles Lafayette in the future

Good lord, I'm a marked man. First it was DFW and LB, and then Fordham. Recently CrudsaderBob and breezy from saderland have placed me on their hit list, and, of course - and with great pride - I point to every Lehigh alum with whom I have ever had contact as a mortal enemy. Now it would appear that I can't go to the tundra without serious body armor. I can however, still walk thru Lewisburg without a disguise. I'm working on that one though.

Yours in curmudgeondom,

carney2

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Good lord, I'm a marked man. First it was DFW and LB, and then Fordham. Recently CrudsaderBob and breezy from saderland have placed me on their hit list, and, of course - and with great pride - I point to every Lehigh alum with whom I have ever had contact as a mortal enemy. Now it would appear that I can't go to the tundra without serious body armor. I can however, still walk thru Lewisburg without a disguise. I'm working on that one though.

Yours in curmudgeondom,

carney2

xlmaox

Not only am I giving carney rep points for this post, I've now officially downgraded him from "mortal enemy" to "occasional irritant". How's that for some xsmoochx xsmiley_wix ?? xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Lehigh74]

As I said, I am a fan of LFN but when the only two assesments that are worlds apart are Lafayette and Lehigh and the discrepancy benefits Lehigh and the author graduated from (say it with me now) Lehigh...one could argue that it smacks of "homerism".

You didn't read carefully enough, the 2nd assessment that was "worlds apart" was Holy Cross not Lehigh.

[TheValleyRaider]

Good lord, I'm a marked man. First it was DFW and LB, and then Fordham. Recently CrudsaderBob and breezy from saderland have placed me on their hit list, and, of course - and with great pride - I point to every Lehigh alum with whom I have ever had contact as a mortal enemy. Now it would appear that I can't go to the tundra without serious body armor. I can however, still walk thru Lewisburg without a disguise. I'm working on that one though.

Yours in curmudgeondom,

carney2

Just come up with some basketball ratings. You might even be able to hit American with that one too xnodx xsmiley_wix

[bison137]

I can however, still walk thru Lewisburg without a disguise. I'm working on that one though.




After giving the Bison recruiting class a B-, you'll have to walk fast though. xlolx

[Fordham]

Good lord, I'm a marked man. First it was DFW and LB, and then Fordham. Recently CrudsaderBob and breezy from saderland have placed me on their hit list, and, of course - and with great pride - I point to every Lehigh alum with whom I have ever had contact as a mortal enemy. Now it would appear that I can't go to the tundra without serious body armor. I can however, still walk thru Lewisburg without a disguise. I'm working on that one though.

Yours in curmudgeondom,

carney2

whoa there ... I'm actually a big fan of our resident PL curmudgeon. Don't put me in that anti-carney camp. I'll continue to point out where I think you (or anyone else) got it wrong or where you need some inside info where there was no reason to expect you to have known something but don't for a minute put that down as having you on any sort of hit list - just calling it like I see it.

... not that I'd expect a curmudgeon to care ;) , but just figured I'd clarify.

This is all good stuff. The more people here who have the passion for the PL that carney & LFN have, the better.

Keep on, keepin' on, carney & LFN. Good stuff.

[NYHOYA]

LFN,

Regarding your "Big Name in the Incoming Class" for Gtown, Joseph Dottino was actually a member of last years recruiting class and will be a soph this fall. Im wondering if you may have used the freshman listed on our roster to evaluate our recruiting class, in which case you would actually be evaluating our soph's because that roster has yet to be updated. You can see bios and film on our incoming freshman class at the following links:

film: http://guhoyas.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/050407aaa.html

bios: http://guhoyas.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/050507aac.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN,

Regarding your "Big Name in the Incoming Class" for Gtown, Joseph Dottino was actually a member of last years recruiting class and will be a soph this fall. Im wondering if you may have used the freshman listed on our roster to evaluate our recruiting class, in which case you would actually be evaluating our soph's because that roster has yet to be updated. You can see bios and film on our incoming freshman class at the following links:

film: http://guhoyas.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/050407aaa.html

bios: http://guhoyas.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/050507aac.html

Welcome NYHoya, and thanks for the heads-up - I'm correcting that now. What happened was that I was looking directly on the roster at prospects, and he's listed as a "FR". xmadx

[NYHOYA]

Sant'Ambrogio for Gtowns top newcomer? Unique choice, he definetly seems like he could end being a good player but I would've had to go with either Carroll or Harrison, I found their highlights to be extremely impressive.

[DFW HOYA]

An ongoing frustration with the Hoyas is the lack of impact underclassmen over the years. That's not to say that players haven't grown into solid roles on the team (McArdle, Ononibaku, Buzbee, etc.) but there hasn't been a bonafide freshman star in 15+ years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sant'Ambrogio for Gtowns top newcomer? Unique choice, he definetly seems like he could end being a good player but I would've had to go with either Carroll or Harrison, I found their highlights to be extremely impressive.

I picked Sant'Ambrogio as a more unconventional choice since he's more of the bread-and-butter type player that they need - and more of them. xtwocentsx

[NYHOYA]

An ongoing frustration with the Hoyas is the lack of impact underclassmen over the years. That's not to say that players haven't grown into solid roles on the team (McArdle, Ononibaku, Buzbee, etc.) but there hasn't been a bonafide freshman star in 15+ years.

I guess it depends on what you consider a star but I would say Houghton was a pretty impressive freshman this year. After all he was the PL freshman of the year.

[ngineer]

I use to think you were a classy dude,I change my mind.You arent an objective journalist and i hope the rest of the ags posters boycot your blog.Even your good pal RichH agreed after Andy pointed out to him Lafayette had the most rated recruits,Lafayette probably had the best incoming class.Now go do some homework on the incoming classes and regrade them!IM pissed

Sheeesh..don't take it personal. One would think LFN dissed your mother. I don't agree with his grading of the recruiting classes, myself, but I find it curious why you take it so personal..xrolleyesx

[Fordham]

for what it's worth, Mara definitely gives us some great publicity but he's not expected to be an impact frosh.

For those interested, I think the expectation is that the following 3 will likely be our impact guys:

*Jon Arnold - WR
*Nick Maggiera - LB
*Bryson Wilson - S/RB

Regardless, this is expected to be a year when a TON of frosh and soph's will be playing and I think most level headed Rams' fans are just hoping to see nice progress and much improved competitiveness but are not expecting us to move up the league hierarchy this year. If Skelton settles in, develops and shows he's the very good QB we expect him to be AND the frosh & sophs get a ton of experience, we should be poised for a great '08 (reinforcing carney's take).

The only other thing, LFN, is that I really discount the info produced in spring game write-ups. To me, that's much more a function of the quality of the SID at a specific school than it is about what kind of progress actually occurred during Spring. That said, the info out there is limited, so it's completely understood why you'd take it into account when there is not much else to go on. Overall, great stuff - good to have something PL to read about in the run up to the season. xthumbsupx

[Lafalumni29]

There is some nice press on some of these kids, sure. But I'm not looking at Rivals rankings. I'm trying to divine needs and who they got, and I'm not at all sure they got speed (DB/WR) and size (DL especially) across the board that they're going to need.

And, again, this is for entertainment purposes only.


Chuck, I'll go on record saying that I enjoy your column and your objectivity. But, I don't see how we did not address our needs. We lost our QB and RB. Tavani brought in 3 QB's (total of 6 in camp!!) and we have at least two VERY capable RB's in the stable. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Lehigh was after Quilling just as much as LC was. Tavani was quoted as saying this is the BEST WR group he's has recruited to date. I'm sure LU fans will agree we don't need anymore size on our OL at least for this year, and we scored what sounds like some good DL's with Gerowski, Eck and Katz. All with size. So I'm confused, what didn't Tavani address? xconfusedx xconfusedx

[Andy]

Quote:
''In the end, because the pool has gotten smaller because of the increased standards, we are diluting the talent level of the league. Now, when you say that, someone is going to split their pants. But it's the truth.''

Tavani offers three possible scenarios.

''You either have to go merit aid and cut down on the size of the squads, or you have to lower your standards, or your Step 3 is keep it the same and watch the level of play diminish,'' he said. ''There are no other answers. I've said that privately many times and I don't mind saying it in public.''

LFN--"If I'm a recruit going to Lafayette for the class of 2011, how am I supposed to interpret this? My coach feels like the talent level is diminished over years past. Maybe kids don't care, but I'm just wondering."

LFN--"Something really seems odd over there in Easton. First, was coach Tavani railing out against the Academic Index right after brining in the class of 2011, which seems to confirm that this year’s class was weaker than usual."

You're kidding, right? Otherwise I find your suggested interpretation of Frank's remarks disingenuous, outrageous, and downright ridiculous. Frank said "we are diluting the talent of THE LEAGUE". You know, the league whose '05 co-champ lost to CCSU and Dartmouth; whose '06 co-champ lost to all four Ivy opponents; whose members lost to Duquesne, Monmouth twice, Albany and by 30 pts to Columbia. THE LEAGUE! Remember it's THE LEAGUE who's undertaking the study of the AI and it's effects, (as you pointed out in your original LFN piece on the AI) not Frank Tavani at Lafayette.

Frank could've sat quietly back in his new digs, fat and happy, soaking up the accolades for turning the program around and winning three straight championships. Instead, he takes a leadership, point man position in THE LEAGUE'S push for scholarships and that's the thanks he gets? A respected columnist and league spokesman twisting Frank's words into a slight at his own recruits. Come on! Come back to us, Chuck.

Who better to describe the league's self imposed untenable recruiting position than a wildly successful, three-peat champ? He's not whining or making excuses from the bottom of the league standings. If HE'S bitching, it must be true. He's credible. Some of us appreciate it, Frank

[Andy]

LFN Quote: "But if I’m a Leopard fan, I have to look at this bunch of QBs and say: “I want one of these guys to be the next Brad Maurer”. Is QB Mark Quilling really that guy?"

Chuck, did you start out looking to write a negative report on Lafayette? Focusing on Marc out of this group of QBs suggests as much. Everyone and his brother knows that Raymond and Carey were our top two QB recruits. Coach Faragalli pursued Raymond as his priority recruit since the summer of '06. Carey is a record setting QB from PA, offered by Villanova, whom we may have been lucky to land due to his father's long time friendship with Coach Hefner. Not to knock Quilling, but hearsay has it that he was a late add-on who received no football related aid. Bad job, LFN.

[Pard94]

LFN Quote: "But if I’m a Leopard fan, I have to look at this bunch of QBs and say: “I want one of these guys to be the next Brad Maurer”. Is QB Mark Quilling really that guy?"

Chuck, did you start out looking to write a negative report on Lafayette? Focusing on Marc out of this group of QBs suggests as much. Everyone and his brother knows that Raymond and Carey were our top two QB recruits. Coach Faragalli pursued Raymond as his priority recruit since the summer of '06. Carey is a record setting QB from PA, offered by Villanova, whom we may have been lucky to land due to his father's long time friendship with Coach Hefner. Not to knock Quilling, but hearsay has it that he was a late add-on who received no football related aid. Bad job, LFN.


Not to mention...I'm not sure how many people would have looked at Mauer himself and said, "there is the Lafayette QB of the future" as evidenced by how hard he had to work to land the starting spot right up until his senior year". I know Chuck does more research than just about any PL poster and I appreciate his work. Hell I myself called him the Sage of the PL on his on board. But, with that, comes some reasonable expectation of objectivity. If you are going to present yourself as somewhat of an authority, don't you have to be somewhat unbiased? I'm not suggesting you have to crown us king but you have to come to the tablw with a better rationale than what you have stated on your blog as to why you put us last in the league and Lehigh first. Your reasoning shows no reason.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Quote:
''In the end, because the pool has gotten smaller because of the increased standards, we are diluting the talent level of the league. Now, when you say that, someone is going to split their pants. But it's the truth.''

Tavani offers three possible scenarios.

''You either have to go merit aid and cut down on the size of the squads, or you have to lower your standards, or your Step 3 is keep it the same and watch the level of play diminish,'' he said. ''There are no other answers. I've said that privately many times and I don't mind saying it in public.''

LFN--"If I'm a recruit going to Lafayette for the class of 2011, how am I supposed to interpret this? My coach feels like the talent level is diminished over years past. Maybe kids don't care, but I'm just wondering."

LFN--"Something really seems odd over there in Easton. First, was coach Tavani railing out against the Academic Index right after brining in the class of 2011, which seems to confirm that this year’s class was weaker than usual."

You're kidding, right? Otherwise I find your suggested interpretation of Frank's remarks disingenuous, outrageous, and downright ridiculous. Frank said "we are diluting the talent of THE LEAGUE". You know, the league whose '05 co-champ lost to CCSU and Dartmouth; whose '06 co-champ lost to all four Ivy opponents; whose members lost to Duquesne, Monmouth twice, Albany and by 30 pts to Columbia. THE LEAGUE! Remember it's THE LEAGUE who's undertaking the study of the AI and it's effects, (as you pointed out in your original LFN piece on the AI) not Frank Tavani at Lafayette.

Frank could've sat quietly back in his new digs, fat and happy, soaking up the accolades for turning the program around and winning three straight championships. Instead, he takes a leadership, point man position in THE LEAGUE'S push for scholarships and that's the thanks he gets? A respected columnist and league spokesman twisting Frank's words into a slight at his own recruits. Come on! Come back to us, Chuck.

Who better to describe the league's self imposed untenable recruiting position than a wildly successful, three-peat champ? He's not whining or making excuses from the bottom of the league standings. If HE'S bitching, it must be true. He's credible. Some of us appreciate it, Frank

Coach Tavani's influence in furthering the debate about the Patriot League's academic standards and scholarships is undoubtable. Yes, he's credible. Heck, it's his comments that made me think to make that series in the first place, and his points are extremely well taken.

But making such comments -- and especially their timing (a week after the site announced the new recruits) -- have repercussions. Again, I'm not saying that recruits feel one way or another -- but I sure would have taken notice. How can you say the "talent level of our league as diminishing" isn't a slight in any way? That Lafayette's talent level is improving, but the rest of the league is sliding? Tavani didn't say that, either. He said "sit back, and watch the level of play [of the league] diminish. Last I heard, that includes Lafayette.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not to mention...I'm not sure how many people would have looked at Mauer himself and said, "there is the Lafayette QB of the future" as evidenced by how hard he had to work to land the starting spot right up until his senior year". I know Chuck does more research than just about any PL poster and I appreciate his work. Hell I myself called him the Sage of the PL on his on board. But, with that, comes some reasonable expectation of objectivity. If you are going to present yourself as somewhat of an authority, don't you have to be somewhat unbiased? I'm not suggesting you have to crown us king but you have to come to the tablw with a better rationale than what you have stated on your blog as to why you put us last in the league and Lehigh first. Your reasoning shows no reason.

Do you look at any of those frosh QBs and say, "There's a guy who will could push for starts this year?" How about next year? I didn't - you may. Now, I'm no better judge than anybody else for these things, but that's what I thought - and Lafayette needs one of these six QBs to step up.

Glavic clearly right off the bat looked like a guy who was going to be an immediate starter. Are any of these guys that sort of player? I thought Sedale Threatt would someday be starting when I saw his name in there (if not at QB, then RB). Go back further. Stambaugh. Semph. Is one of these three guys that sort of player?

Maybe Josh Jones will make this discussion moot this year or next. But the job was to evaluate this year's class.

[Leopard Man]

xmadx LFN you did no research on this at all.Im not going to read his blog this season! Can't wait to view his weekly pics on CSN...LOL

[Lehigh Football Nation]

xmadx LFN you did no research on this at all.Im not going to read his blog this season! Can't wait to view his weekly pics on CSN...LOL

xrolleyesx Beleive what you want.

What, you think my picks are going to be:

Marist 70, Lafayette 0?

Tune in and find out...

[carney2]

Good lord, LFN, what did you do? You've even riled Andy who is the RichH of LeopardLand - calm, thoughtful, knowledgeable. I'm headed over to College Hill tomorrow for the annual alumni burger burn with Tavani. I half expect to find a vacant lot. At a minimum you must have bombed the new Varsity House to rate this kind of abuse.

Not to change the subject, and as much as I truly enjoy seeing a Lehigh guy (any Lehigh guy) getting the crap kicked out of him, but all of this talk about "impact players" brings up a question. Position by position, what are the chances of a good freshman being an impact player in his first year on campus? (I'm not talking starter, I'm talking IMPACT.) I don't think it's the same for all positions. Some are much more difficult. Here are some opinions to start this off:

QB: Almost impossible at this level. The kid at Appalachian State last year is, of course, an exception. I can't think of any in the Patriot League. At Lafayette, Bauer wasn't; Kirchoff wasn't; Glavic started but was not "impact:' and Maurer wasn't. I'm saying 5%, maybe less.

RB: It happens frequently enough to be relatively commonplace. Houghton, Scott and, reaching further back, Marsh come immediately to mind. 75%.

WR: Tougher than RB because of timing and patterns, but it happens. It may happen at Lafayette this year. 50% or better.

OL: One of the toughest positions to master. It is very rare that a freshman makes a difference in the OL. 10% or less.

DL: Not as difficult as the OL. 50% or greater.

LB: It can be done. 33% or more.

DB: Very difficult - and you become the guy they pick on. 25%.

K: 100%.

Fishing for some comments from some of the more knowledgeable posters at this site.

PS: Hey, LFN, the North Jersey mob went out of business a few months ago. I bet that you could get some cheap bodyguards if you asked around.

[Pard94]

Do you look at any of those frosh QBs and say, "There's a guy who will could push for starts this year?" How about next year? I didn't - you may. Now, I'm no better judge than anybody else for these things, but that's what I thought - and Lafayette needs one of these six QBs to step up.

Glavic clearly right off the bat looked like a guy who was going to be an immediate starter. Are any of these guys that sort of player? I thought Sedale Threatt would someday be starting when I saw his name in there (if not at QB, then RB). Go back further. Stambaugh. Semph. Is one of these three guys that sort of player?

Maybe Josh Jones will make this discussion moot this year or next. But the job was to evaluate this year's class.

So you say you are evlauating based on needs...whose needs, Lafayette's or Lehigh's? You'd be correct if you are implying that none of our current QB's could step right into your typical Air Lehigh style of offense.If you are seriously basing this critique on our needs you would remember the dreaded Coach Heffner and his "ram it down your throat" type of offense that has haunted Lehigh for a half a decade now. You were quick to cite him by name in your column...don't forget him now. I think any one of these guys could stand in behind Heffner's Heffers and manage a game very nicely. Don't expect 50 yard bombs but it has been a long time since that was our style anyway. If you are serious about considering our needs when you make these assesments, please consider what we might not necessarily need as well...namely a Stambaugh, Semph. or, god forbid, a Threatt.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So you say you are evlauating based on needs...whose needs, Lafayette's or Lehigh's? You'd be correct if you are implying that none of our current QB's could step right into your typical Air Lehigh style of offense.If you are seriously basing this critique on our needs you would remember the dreaded Coach Heffner and his "ram it down your throat" type of offense that has haunted Lehigh for a half a decade now. You were quick to cite him by name in your column...don't forget him now. I think any one of these guys could stand in behind Heffner's Heffers and manage a game very nicely. Don't expect 50 yard bombs but it has been a long time since that was our style anyway. If you are serious about considering our needs when you make these assesments, please consider what we might not necessarily need as well...namely a Stambaugh, Semph. or, god forbid, a Threatt.

Maurer rightfully will go down in Lafayette history as a great QB, especially when the chips were down (i.e., the Rivalry). Those are some big shoes to fill. How Tavani fills those shoes will be the story of Lafayette football for 2007.

Remember that bomb last November, Maurer to Adair, 49-50 yards, against Lehigh? (Sadly, I do.) Although Maurer didn't always throw the bomb, it was always there in the arsenal. Of course, Heffner's Heffers do make it easier to execute. I'm not saying that they have to be the next coming of Darryl Lamonica, but they do need to command a game the same way Maurer did, and offer the same array of weapons.

BTW, EVERY PL team could use a Stambaugh. xtwocentsx

[Pard94]

Maurer rightfully will go down in Lafayette history as a great QB, especially when the chips were down (i.e., the Rivalry). Those are some big shoes to fill. How Tavani fills those shoes will be the story of Lafayette football for 2007.

Remember that bomb last November, Maurer to Adair, 49-50 yards, against Lehigh? (Sadly, I do.) Although Maurer didn't always throw the bomb, it was always there in the arsenal. Of course, Heffner's Heffers do make it easier to execute. I'm not saying that they have to be the next coming of Darryl Lamonica, but they do need to command a game the same way Maurer did, and offer the same array of weapons.

BTW, EVERY PL team could use a Stambaugh. xtwocentsx

Well yes that goes without saying...and while we are at it every PL team could use a Marsh at tailback. I guess this is where we part ways along "party lines"...I think we have plenty of leadership, talent and experience to field a very effective offense even with the QB question. You think that question will loom larger. And I guess we will agree to disagree around your grades. I can't see how this crop of kids garners anything less than a B+ especially compared to the rest of the league...but hey, it's your blog. I just happened to read this addition and think it was less objective than I have come to expect from you. But that's your right as the author. I'm just not paying it much regard...that's my right as the reader.xpeacex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Position by position, what are the chances of a good freshman being an impact player in his first year on campus? (I'm not talking starter, I'm talking IMPACT.) I don't think it's the same for all positions. Some are much more difficult. Here are some opinions to start this off:

QB: Almost impossible at this level. The kid at Appalachian State last year is, of course, an exception. I can't think of any in the Patriot League. At Lafayette, Bauer wasn't; Kirchoff wasn't; Glavic started but was not "impact:' and Maurer wasn't. I'm saying 5%, maybe less.

RB: It happens frequently enough to be relatively commonplace. Houghton, Scott and, reaching further back, Marsh come immediately to mind. 75%.

WR: Tougher than RB because of timing and patterns, but it happens. It may happen at Lafayette this year. 50% or better.

OL: One of the toughest positions to master. It is very rare that a freshman makes a difference in the OL. 10% or less.

DL: Not as difficult as the OL. 50% or greater.

LB: It can be done. 33% or more.

DB: Very difficult - and you become the guy they pick on. 25%.

K: 100%.


It depends on so much - who's starting ahead of them, injuries, etc. Four-year starters come about mainly due to injuries or luck. Houghton was freshman of the year due to G'town's lack of depth, for example - and it's debatable if he's an "impact" guy. Sedale maybe could have started freshman year, but he would have never displaced Mark Borda.

I can say that OL Jimmy Kehs did start for Lehigh shortly out of the box, so freshman starters on the "O" line are possible. But yet again, coach Lembo was shuffling the line like a deck of cards due to injuries that year.

[RichH2]

4 year starters are a nice dream but not one to bet the rent money on.
Very few are that good as frosh with very rare exceptions. Most start due to injuries lack of depth some develop most do not. BU this year is the perfect scenario , I think the entire frosh class got to play last year . How will they progress this year. From my experience there is a dropoff in the 2nd yr for whatever reason ?

[DFW HOYA]

Houghton was freshman of the year due to G'town's lack of depth, for example - and it's debatable if he's an "impact" guy.

Agree on Houghton. I think he certainly has potential, but he rushed for just 36.6 yards a game in 2006 with no rushing TD's.

[DFW HOYA]

Houghton was freshman of the year due to G'town's lack of depth, for example - and it's debatable if he's an "impact" guy.

Agree on Houghton. I think he certainly has potential, but he rushed for just 36.6 yards a game in 2006. His receiving stats (19-225-4) were better, but then again Georgetown had only three rushing TD's last season.

[bison137]

Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation
Houghton was freshman of the year due to G'town's lack of depth, for example - and it's debatable if he's an "impact" guy.



Agree on Houghton. I think he certainly has potential, but he rushed for just 36.6 yards a game in 2006. His receiving stats (19-225-4) were better, but then again Georgetown had only three rushing TD's last season.


I think there may be a dozen guys who could have been the PL ROY, including a bunch of Bison. IMO, one guy who deserved it was LB Sam Nana-Sinkham, who started all 11 games and ranked 7th in the PL in tackles as a freshman. Also, RB A.J. Kizekai, who was hurt early, ran for 441 yds on 58 carries (7.6 ave) and caught 6 passes for 156 yards (26.0 ave) in just 7 games - 5 TD's in all. And Rashod Bumpers, who only played 3+ games before tearing his ACL, had 13 carries for 144 yards (11.1 ave) and 3 receptions for 102 yards.

Also, had either of the two Bison frosh QB's played the whole season, either might have had a shot. Lair - the opening day QB - started 4 games and had a very good QB rating of 128.5. Trigg started 6 games with a 102.2 rating but also carried 76 times for 299 yards and 2 TD's.

All of the above except Lair were PL ROY at least once, and safety Brigham Farrand, who was also in the top ten in the league in tackles (not a good thing for a safety - reflective of the BU front four), also was a PL ROY. Also, frosh DE Josh Eden was 5th in the league in sacks and did a respectable job on the line as the season progressed.

BTW, the current Bucknell depth chart shows 11 sophomore starters for 2007, with 19 sophs on the two-deep.

[carney2]

the current Bucknell depth chart shows 11 sophomore starters for 2007, with 19 sophs on the two-deep.

Bucknell and Fordham are the two most exciting teams in the League in terms of having a future and joining the "usual list of suspects" in the upper echelon. Both are probably a year away. The big question with Bucknell is size. How far can you go without it? As we have discussed here more than once, Landis has embarked on a grand experiment and seems to be the only coach in the League willing to go "another direction." In that respect alone Bucknell will be the most interesting program in the PL for the next few years.

[DFW HOYA]

Bucknell and Fordham are the two most exciting teams in the League in terms of having a future and joining the "usual list of suspects" in the upper echelon. Both are probably a year away.

Six teams (out of seven) in the upper echelon?

[bison137]

Bucknell and Fordham are the two most exciting teams in the League in terms of having a future and joining the "usual list of suspects" in the upper echelon. Both are probably a year away. The big question with Bucknell is size. How far can you go without it? As we have discussed here more than once, Landis has embarked on a grand experiment and seems to be the only coach in the League willing to go "another direction." In that respect alone Bucknell will be the most interesting program in the PL for the next few years.


Bucknell being considered "small" shows how much times have changed. With four of the five starting OL being 270+ pounds, that would have been a pretty big line a decade ago. DL could use a little more size but at least three of the four starting LB's are fairly big. Hopefully all of the sophs who are projected to start will add some weight (and strength) with more lifting and natural growth.

[carney2]

Six teams (out of seven) in the upper echelon?

At most 5. I keep saying it and people keep throwing it back in my face: Holy Cross, in my opinion, is going the other way. That leaves two "open" cases:

Bucknell: Are they big enough? Despite what LFN says, they certainly appear to be fast enough.

Fordham: Can they add enough of the missing pieces after two good, but not "upper echelon," recruiting classes?

So, you see, it's still really the Big 3 plus whoever has the guts to join them - because, despite an occasional misstep such as 'gate's 2006 performance, none of them show any indication of sinking to a lower level.