Lance Armstrong Witchhunt

[Marcus Garvey]

What do y'all think about the claims by a French sports rag that Armstrong was "doping" in '99? The timing seems awfully strange to me. I realize that the French dislike Lance because he's made zero effort to endear himself to them. God knows they love it when people suck up to their culture.

However, I couldn't help but notice that this story didn't break until AFTER Armstrong went biking with President Bush. Let's face it, the French are the only people who hate G.W. more than mainejeff!

Any thoughts?

[colgate13]

I think it is in extremely poor taste and quite ridiculous to claim they know something about a test six years ago. If it was a french man they wouldn't be searching for ways to knock him off his well earned pedestal.

[DuckDuckGriz]

Didn't they try breaking into his room last year looking for dope? They are going to try anything they can. I say Lance goes for 8 and moons em afterwards.

[blackfordpu]

That is the french for ya. An American has awsome success on their turf and they have to try and make him look bad.

Freaking french! :mad: :bang: :splat:

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Actually, I really have no interest in the whole thing. We are talking about a guy peddling a bike around. To me, it is on par on the interest scale with marathon running or David Blaine locking himself in a box for a month and a half :boring:

[blukeys]

What do y'all think about the claims by a French sports rag that Armstrong was "doping" in '99? The timing seems awfully strange to me. I realize that the French dislike Lance because he's made zero effort to endear himself to them. God knows they love it when people suck up to their culture.

However, I couldn't help but notice that this story didn't break until AFTER Armstrong went biking with President Bush. Let's face it, the French are the only people who hate G.W. more than mainejeff!

Any thoughts?

No mainejeff's hatred is worse. The French whine, bitch and complain about W but go back to eating stinky cheese, drinking wine and practicing surrender techniques. Jeff eats, sleeps, and breathes Bush hatred. ;) ;)

[AmsterBison]

First of all, Lance Armstrong is probably the greatest athlete I'll live to see and if you don't care to watch cycling, that doesn't change things. To me, the Tour is kinda like back-to-back-to-back marathons except that are no sprints in marathons and there are no mountains in marathons.

Second, they tested his blood so they aren't just making this up. However, think how close he was to recovering from cancer treatments. They should have made dang sure that they aren't getting a false positive before saying anything.

Third, maybe they should do this in other sports (freeze urine). I think many athletes use performance enhancing drugs because they can beat the current testing regime. However, would you take the same gamble that you could beat tests developed 10, 20, or 30 years in the future?

Fourth, why the heck does *EVERYTHING* have to be politics. Get some perspective, for chrissakes. Maybe try putting down the Limbaugh, taking off the tinfoil hat that protects you from liberal mind control rays, and stepping back into reality.

Fifth, France is a fantastic place that often infuriates Americans. Well guess what? America is a fantastic place that infuriates every other countryon the planet from time to time (and rightfully so, believe it or not) .

Sixth, you go beyond the pale when you criticize French wine and food. Dang it, French wine can be fantastic, if mostly unaffordable, and French food is even better. Man, the average produce you get in a French store makes the crap in US supermarkets look like cattle feed. I wonder if anybody even knows what a gosh darn strawberry really tastes like any more? Edit: OTOH, French beef is trash compared to the stuff we get in the US of A.

(*pant, pant*, rant over).

[Gil Dobie]

Actually the Fernch biking hero laughed at the report and said "what are they going to starting testing all the way back to 1903???" (paraphrased). :rolleyes: This is so transparent even though it is a respected org.

Is that the country next to Gremnay? :confused: ;)

Yes, I was up late chatting too....... :cool:

[SunCoastBlueHen]

First of all, Lance Armstrong is probably the greatest athlete I'll live to see and if you don't care to watch cycling, that doesn't change things. To me, the Tour is kinda like back-to-back-to-back marathons except that are no sprints in marathons and there are no mountains in marathons..

This tagline of "greatest athlete" that is often applied to Lance Armstrong is what bothers me. Endurance specialist does not equal greatest athlete in my book.

[citdog]

the french sure know what sour kraut and hitlers cheeks taste like. they are a sorry bunch of collabarating pieces of excrement.

[mlbowl]

there are no mountains in marathons.



MANY marathons are run over mountainous terrain

[blukeys]

This tagline of "greatest athlete" that is often applied to Lance Armstrong is what bothers me. Endurance specialist does not equal greatest athlete in my book.

The type of racing that Armstrong and the other Tour competitors is more than just endurance. There are periods during the Tour where a cyclist's anaerobic capability is taxed to the maximum. The great cyclists must be able to sprint for extended periods of time and the pain and stress after riding 80 miles is unbelievable. One cannot appreciate how difficult it is to maintain a 25 to 30 mph speed even in a pace line for an hour or more.

The one area where cyclists cannot be measured and thereby may not beworthy of the best athlete label is in the area of hand eye coordination.

[Marcus Garvey]

the french sure know what sour kraut and hitlers cheeks taste like. they are a sorry bunch of collabarating pieces of excrement.

Congratulations citdog! You win the "Best response" prize! I'll remember that one next time my brother and I bash the French. His dislike of them is based upon personal experiences!

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The type of racing that Armstrong and the other Tour competitors is more than just endurance. There are periods during the Tour where a cyclist's anaerobic capability is taxed to the maximum. The great cyclists must be able to sprint for extended periods of time and the pain and stress after riding 80 miles is unbelievable. One cannot appreciate how difficult it is to maintain a 25 to 30 mph speed even in a pace line for an hour or more.

The one area where cyclists cannot be measured and thereby may not beworthy of the best athlete label is in the area of hand eye coordination.

Athleticism, to me, is a combination of strength, agility, hand-eye coordination, and endurance. What you described above still falls into the endurance category, IMO. While I do appreciate the difficulty of what the cyclists do, and the amazing stamina that they have, they are one dimensional athletes and, therefore, cannot be given the tag "greatest". Bo Jackson, as an example, was a far greater athlete than Lance.

[blukeys]

Athleticism, to me, is a combination of strength, agility, hand-eye coordination, and endurance. What you described above still falls into the endurance category, IMO. While I do appreciate the difficulty of what the cyclists do, and the amazing stamina that they have, they are one dimensional athletes and, therefore, cannot be given the tag "greatest". Bo Jackson, as an example, was a far greater athlete than Lance.

And I would contend that cyclists have the combination of endurance, strength and agility. You have to stand next to these guys to appreciate their strength. As I stated earlier the hand-eye coordination is not a factor in cycling.

[blukeys]

Good article on the history of drug abuse in the Tour and the problems of the French.

Lance boiled (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007171)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The article itself is funny - it goes on to say how doping has been rampant in the last 100 years, then curiously it calls the charges against Lance Armstrong a "witch hunt".

Take out the Lance Armstrong stuff for a minute from the article. You'd have just learned that there have been major doping scandals consistently in 10-year intervals (sometimes less) over the last 100 years, first with alcohol, then opiates, then amphetamines, then EPO and steriods. Then the author asks us to believe that Armstrong is unfairly being victimized for failing the test? Like this guy is the exception to 100 years of the opposite rule?

If you haven't guessed, I'm very convinced that Lance Armstrong, and probably more than half the riders in the Tour, are drugged up. Just look at the history of the tour itself. They have always been drugged up for the past 100 years. Not just Lance, most riders have associations with shady doctors and doped-up individuals.

[blukeys]

The article itself is funny - it goes on to say how doping has been rampant in the last 100 years, then curiously it calls the charges against Lance Armstrong a "witch hunt".



I think you missed the author's point. It is a witch hunt because the French lab and paper only went after Lance's sample. Why not go after all of the riders of 7 years ago with the same tests including the french riders? This is the author's point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think you missed the author's point. It is a witch hunt because the French lab and paper only went after Lance's sample. Why not go after all of the riders of 7 years ago with the same tests including the french riders? This is the author's point.

witch-hunt n.
An investigation carried out ostensibly to uncover subversive activities but actually used to harass and undermine those with differing views.

In this case the "differing view" is whether Lance actually took steriods or not. If you look at the history of the tour, what is the likelihood that he did? Well, scores of champions doped up or have been suspected of doing so.

I found an old interview with the last French Tour de France champion, which deals with one of the older allegations against Lance, but is pretty interesting nonetheless. After reading it, I'm more confused than ever. Did Lance or didn't he? Hinault seems to think there's other politics at work - not really anti-Americanism, but anti-Tour de France specifically. There are folks that believe that it's all a fraud, and they're hell-bent to expose it. Lance, as a record champion, is more being used to discredit the tour, not Americans in general.


[Interviewer:] In discussing the integrity of the Tour, the press has called the legend into question, as if in the past one has admired riders who did not merit to be admired. You were not affected by that?

[Hinault:] Of course I am still affected by it. One would have the impression, in reading the commentaries, that all cyclists are doped. Hinault like Anquetil, Merckx, or Indurain! The newspapers have made it seem that all those who won the Tour could not have won it on clear water. That's stupid, but what do you think I should say to that? I have my own good conscience.

[I:] That legend which vacillates, you don't wish to defend it?

[H:] The best response is the public who supports it each day. The legend is there with them, on the roadside, on the side of those who continually thank me for still believing in it. The more one strikes at the Tour, the more people there are. And read what they are writing, on the banners, you will see that they are fed up with all the suspicion.

...

When I went on the road to Puy de Fou, I thought that some rider would make a mistake, I knew that the riders had their future in their hands, and I am happy to see that they understood that. That didn't prevent a good hundred journalists to come in search of a scandal, journalists who punctuate their articles with suspicions, who feed the polemic but, not finding a story, they added in suspicion, they poisoned the Tour, to the point that in eight days, one will ask again if Armstrong deserved to win.

[I:] That is what you could not tolerate?

[H:] It makes me angry because it implies that someone who has had cancer cannot win the Tour. That is ridiculous. When I was informed that he was ill, in the manner in which it was presented at the time, I thought he would not be able to pull through, after a short while he would be three feet underground. Then I saw him come back, thinner, head shaved, covered by a hat, eyes narrowed but alive. The cancer had uncovered his will to live, and to win, it is what gives him his force, plus the fact that he had lost ten kilograms of fat tissue which he never regained. Then he reconstructed himself via sports, like Lemond after his hunting accident, starting by winning the Tour du Luxembourg, finishing fourth in the Vuelta, the World Championship, without the least suspicion that he was using drugs.

[I:] Which means that perhaps it is the Tour which is targeted and not Armstrong...

[H:] Perhaps, yes, that some pressure group seeks to demolish the Tour, in which case, it's not ready to be demolished. But the worst is that the ministry takes a turn by feeding the suspicion, with Madame Buffet, who asks the UCI for the results of the blood checks, suggesting that the UCI has hidden the results or refuses to be open when over the past few months, the team directors, the sponsors, and the riders have done everything they could to create a healthy situation. Instead of of taking it out on the Tour, she would do better to treat all sports equally.

[mainejeff]

Good golly, another France bashing thread on AGS. Damn, you guys try to insert these all over the place, don't you? ;)

blukeys.....Are you sleeping with Dubya?

This whole thing is stupid, and I doubt that most in France could care less about Lance Armstrong or the "allegations". Makes good fodder for France haters though :nod: .

[blukeys]

Good golly, another France bashing thread on AGS. Damn, you guys try to insert these all over the place, don't you? ;)

blukeys.....Are you sleeping with Dubya?

This whole thing is stupid, and I doubt that most in France could care less about Lance Armstrong or the "allegations". Makes good fodder for France haters though :nod: .

The letters to the newspapers in France regarding this incident have been running 6 or 7 to 1 in Lance's favor. The reaction of French cyclists has been suppportive of Lance. The French media has had an anti Lance agenda since the late 90's as anyone who has followed the Tour knows. So the bias goes back to the Clinton era. I have taken issue at this paper singling out Armstrong to only have his sample tested after 7 years but this is typical as this is the organization that has led the anti-Lance crusade since 1999.

Cycling is a much bigger sport in France than here. The interest is similar to the interest in the baseball steroid scandal here in the states. My criticism has been directed at a pompous arrogant biased media in France who are pursuing their own agenda. The article I posted is written by a Brit who is interested in cycling and knows the European scene. I like LFN's quotes as it adds another dimension. I have heard this argument advanced before LFN.

I only know one individual who insists on injecting his own hatred and bias of anything associated with Dubya into each and every thread. Regardless, of the topic MJ finds a way to inject some political motivation. I'm glad that I don't have a life that is totally obsessed with things political. The mental gymnastics necessary to turn a discussion about an individual athlete into a geopolitical event is something I can only comnprehend by reading MJ's prior posts.

As someone who has tried to do some serious cycling I admire all of the world class athletes who compete in this sport regardless of nationality. I have followed it for some time and resent the way that the French MEDIA has tried to minimize a great athlete's accomplishments. The first person to inject Dubya into this discussion is as usual the inveterate Bush hater MJ. Congrats MJ you managed to hijack another thread.

[Baldy]

If you haven't guessed, I'm very convinced that Lance Armstrong, ..... , are drugged up.

Armstrong is easily by far the most tested athlete in the world, and has never failed a drug test. There needs to be something more than just a "hunch" to take this comment seriously.

[mainejeff]

"However, I couldn't help but notice that this story didn't break until AFTER Armstrong went biking with President Bush. Let's face it, the French are the only people who hate G.W. more than mainejeff!" - Marcus Garvey (1st post in thread).

Ok, blukeys....whatever you say...... :rolleyes:

[blukeys]

"However, I couldn't help but notice that this story didn't break until AFTER Armstrong went biking with President Bush. Let's face it, the French are the only people who hate G.W. more than mainejeff!" - Marcus Garvey (1st post in thread).

Ok, blukeys....whatever you say...... :rolleyes:


You got a problem with what Marcus (or citdog) says than take it up with them. You were the one who singled me out in this thread when I am the only cyclist in the thread and have argued with a few about Lance's qualifications as "world's greatest athlete". I have followed this sport for 15 years and am more than willing to help educate my AGS brothers about the sport and the extraordinary accomplishments of Armstrong. I never once mentioned Dubya in my posts. That the French Media was anti Lance since 1999 is a fact and well documented.

Your reputation of Dubya obsession is well earned and has been proven time and again by your constant attempt to turn any thread into an anti Bush diatribe. Just because you are so obsessed does not mean the rest of us are.

My contributions to this thread were regarding cycling. If you want some explanation of any of my posts in this thread that doesn't fit this explanation than say so. I have never backed down from opinions I have stated and have always offered explanations. READ THE ARTICLE I POSTED. It is not political in any way. Unless of course you read it from the Mainejeff point of view. In that alternative universe. Everything is political.

[Mr. C]

Has Lance Armstrong ever been disqualified for a race because of failing a drug test? Do you wish to test folks seven years past the fact? Where's Barry Bond's blood and urine from previous years??? YUCK! If the athlete passes the tests to compete, then coming back later to cry foul is just that, CRYING! Let it go people.
Having covered my share of cycling over the years (including Lance at the Tour DuPont), I have always been extremely suspicious of this guy, just like I am of Barry Bonds. He is despised by most of the cyclers (particularly Americans) who rose through the ranks at the same time as him and he has been one step ahead of the law for years. If you cross him, he threatens not to only sue you, but to bury you professionally. Lance is not a good person. Trust me on this (I have interviewed him and personally know other cyclists that have grown up with him). Do I think he would do drugs to win? I think Lance would do anything to win. EPO, by the way, is nothing to be messing with. My wife uses it everyday on her patients in the kidney dialysis unit. Just because an athlete can beat a drug test now doesn't mean they were really clean. In his case, where there is smoke, there is probably fire. I can't believe how the American public has looked the other way at the growing mountain of evidence against this guy.