New Haven to FCS

[Libertine]

New Haven's AD says the Chargers are actively pursuing making the jump to D1. No specific conference referenced but one would have to think the NEC is a no-brainer. There's an interesting quote from the article that puts the move in terms of financial survival for the university.


In 2029, there is an expected enrollment cliff (https://www.cupahr.org/issue/dept/interactive-enrollment-cliff/) among colleges; because of the declining U.S. birth rate post-2008 recession, fewer students will be attending institutions of higher education. According to the College and University Professional Association for Human Resources (CUPAHR), northeast universities are expected to lose more than 11% of their overall enrollment. By being a D1 school, the university will attract a greater number of athletes and students.

https://chargerbulletin.com/university-of-new-haven-seeks-to-upgrade-athletic-status/

[mainejeff]

Good. Another New England team for Maine to play.

[100%GRIZ]

Good Luck New Haven!xthumbsupx

[TexasTerror]

Is the Northeast Conference not open to adding an 11th all sports member? It would certainly also shore up football with a 9th team, giving everyone a guaranteed four home/four away games.

American East is an also potential landing spot but similar to NEC with an 11th all sport member and they'd still have to park football somewhere.

MAAC may be interesting as it would give them 12 all sport members for more balanced scheduling. Still need a football home and NEC could be willing?

[TheKingpin28]

If they go American East, that would 5 teams with Football. Maybe they try and break away from the CAA and keep a closer footprint (cash wise) and poach URI and Villanova from the CAA?

New Haven
Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Stony Brook
URI
Villanova

Try and convince UMass to stop being dumbasses and come compete in a solid FCS conference? That would be 8 teams and if they could convince Robert Morris to join as an associate member, that would prevent travel south of Pennsylvania.

That would significantly help them all out knowing most of these schools could bus to each other, (RMU maybe could bus Albany, SBU, New Haven, and for sure Villanova) and knowing teams would only have to travel as far as western Pennsylvania, southern Maine, and Long Island would be quite enticing.

[UNHWildcat18]

If they go American East, that would 5 teams with Football. Maybe they try and break away from the CAA and keep a closer footprint (cash wise) and poach URI and Villanova from the CAA?

New Haven
Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Stony Brook
URI
Villanova

Try and convince UMass to stop being dumbasses and come compete in a solid FCS conference? That would be 8 teams and if they could convince Robert Morris to join as an associate member, that would prevent travel south of Pennsylvania.

That would significantly help them all out knowing most of these schools could bus to each other, (RMU maybe could bus Albany, SBU, New Haven, and for sure Villanova) and knowing teams would only have to travel as far as western Pennsylvania, southern Maine, and Long Island would be quite enticing.

With respect, HELL TO THE ****ING NO..

I want UNH to be with the largest and most prominent FCS schools in terms of conference. I would not trade a single CAA football program for a NEC or D2 program. I would actually rather have a smaller conference then add an NEC or D2 school for CAAFB or AE conference.
(outside if Umass came back, id be like peace elon.... )

Keep those tiny ass no name schools away from me lol, not against playing them OOC.. Even if doomsday happened and JMU went FBS and CAA imploded... AE takes UD and TU as full members, starts football and keeps Nova URI UR and W&M to keep the conference together, kick elon to the soconn or wherever they want to go.

Trade UD's stadium and name for new haven and their high school field....Barf

[TheKingpin28]

With respect, HELL TO THE ****ING NO..

I want UNH to be with the largest and most prominent FCS schools in terms of conference. I would not trade a single NEC or D2 opponent for a CAA football program. I would actually rather have a smaller conference then add an NEC or D2 school for CAAFB or AE conference.
(outside if Umass came back, id be like peace elon.... )

Keep those tiny ass no name schools away from me lol, not against playing them OOC.. Even if doomsday happened and JMU went FBS and CAA imploded... AE takes UD and TU as full members, starts football and keeps Nova URI UR and W&M to keep the conference together, kick elon to the soconn or wherever they want to go.

With how schools are cutting sports, trying to limit travel, etc... you never know. I get wanting to play the best, but I can tell you this, if I could trade YSU for say St Thomas for the MVFC, I'd do that in heartbeat. Similar to the Summit League, if I could trade WIU for Northern Colorado, I'd do that in a heartbeat as well. No reason to travel half way across the country to play a conference opponent when something could be closer and likely draw more fans for a higher revenue, I'm in.

[DFW HOYA]

I want UNH to be with the largest and most prominent FCS schools in terms of conference. I would not trade a single CAA football program for a NEC or D2 program. I would actually rather have a smaller conference then add an NEC or D2 school for CAAFB or AE conference.
(outside if Umass came back, id be like peace elon.... )


So Georgetown is out of the running?

[Milktruck74]

There is going to be a real shake up in conferences over the next two years. I don't think the landscape in 2024 looks anything like it does today. And I think That will start at the FBS level and trickle down. The P5 may become a P4 and the G5 conferences may end up being the G7 or G8....which causes some movement and picking up teams in the FCS....what's going on with the A-Sun???? That'll leave holes in the established conferences....THere will be a tone of movement and a ton of growing pains, but do we end up with something better???

[UNHWildcat18]

So Georgetown is out of the running?

xlolx

[Libertine]

That would be 8 teams and if they could convince Robert Morris to join as an associate member, that would prevent travel south of Pennsylvania.

That would significantly help them all out knowing most of these schools could bus to each other, (RMU maybe could bus Albany, SBU, New Haven, and for sure Villanova) and knowing teams would only have to travel as far as western Pennsylvania, southern Maine, and Long Island would be quite enticing.

Robert Morris is still a significant geographic outlier in this plan. The problem isn't traveling south, it's traveling west (or east, if you're RMU). RMU is practically in Ohio and Moon Township, PA to New Haven, CT is still 8 hours by bus each way, essentially the same travel time as RMU to Campbell.

[Sitting Bull]

If they go American East, that would 5 teams with Football. Maybe they try and break away from the CAA and keep a closer footprint (cash wise) and poach URI and Villanova from the CAA?

New Haven
Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Stony Brook
URI
Villanova

Try and convince UMass to stop being dumbasses and come compete in a solid FCS conference? That would be 8 teams and if they could convince Robert Morris to join as an associate member, that would prevent travel south of Pennsylvania.

That would significantly help them all out knowing most of these schools could bus to each other, (RMU maybe could bus Albany, SBU, New Haven, and for sure Villanova) and knowing teams would only have to travel as far as western Pennsylvania, southern Maine, and Long Island would be quite enticing.

I’m not representing Villanova though if there was ever a split in the CAA football line-up, I would bet the house that Nova would rather be grouped with the southern flank of teams: Delaware, Towson, W&M, JMU and Richmond.

Beyond that, I could see New Haven as a good fit for the NEC.

[Friday I'm in Love]

I don't see America East happening. That league has a specific profile and historically conservative towards expansion.

NEC seems like a lock. Question is who's #12. Howard would be their goal, but Howard might be able to find better options. If Howard shoots higher, Delaware St/NEC have been rumored before.

[dunbar]

Is the Northeast Conference not open to adding an 11th all sports member? It would certainly also shore up football with a 9th team, giving everyone a guaranteed four home/four away games.

American East is an also potential landing spot but similar to NEC with an 11th all sport member and they'd still have to park football somewhere.

MAAC may be interesting as it would give them 12 all sport members for more balanced scheduling. Still need a football home and NEC could be willing?

America East is out because they aren't an institutional fit. Nine public research schools plus the lone private (Hartford) whose been around for 35+ years.

NEC is the only fit plus their former NE-10 counterparts are already there.

[ST_Lawson]

I agree that NEC makes the most sense out of the various possibilities for New Haven.

I did have a thought that if there was some attempt of America East Football...wondering if a school like Central Connecticut would try to upgrade to that. They're currently the only public school in the NEC and they're right in that footprint of what it would be. If this league pulled the America East and A10 northern teams that are currently football affiliates in the CAA, plus CCSU, then you'd have:

Albany
Central Connecticut
Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Stony Brook

Not as many as you'd like for a full conference though, and barring someone like UConn or UMass dropping down to where they belong, there's not really many other options in the region that would make sense for that conference.

At that point, the CAA is down to 7 football members (Delaware, Elon, JMU, Towson, W&M, Richmond, and 'Nova) and they can bring Youngstown State in as a football affiliate.

[caribbeanhen]

New Haven rocks

[mainejeff]

JMU holds the key to the CAA.....and they are happy building FBS quality facilities and spending hundreds of millions in the process......to play in a small time league with very little national recognition.

[aceinthehole]

New Haven has one and only one option - NEC. I think we had a thread on this a while ago when they hired a new AD and announced intentions to explore D-I.

To recap:

The only conferences in the region that have admitted a D-II programs is the NEC and America East. Not since Albany and Stony Brook (2001) has the America East added a school with football. Since then Binghamton (2001), UMBC (2003), UMass-Lowell (2013), and NJIT (2020) were added. All public universities with an enrollment of more than 10k and without football. See a theme?

On the other hand, the last three additions to the NEC have been small, private D-II schools with football - Sacred Heart (1999), Bryant (2008), and Merrimack (2019). Again, see a trend?

At this point in time there is zero incentive for the NEC to an invite to New Haven. Merrimack and the addition of football by LIU has kept the NEC stable (10 basketball and 8 football). If the NEC needs a football program, we just need to get Marist as an associate member.

[Sitting Bull]

JMU holds the key to the CAA.....and they are happy building FBS quality facilities and spending hundreds of millions in the process......to play in a small time league with very little national recognition.

Delaware and W&M are the core of the CAA, not JMU. The interest from other schools to join - like Elon and Charleston - was influenced by establishing associations with UD and W&M primarily. Plus - W&M keeps URs interest and Delaware keeps Villanovas interest.

The CAA has prepped for JMUs move for years, they just don’t take the bait. I think they know, despite what you say, they get more recognition where they want it in the CAA (the East coast) than the Sun Belt, MAC or CUSA. You don’t have to look any further than UMass and ODU to see the fallacy of building recognition by leaving.

[caribbeanhen]

Delaware and W&M are the core of the CAA, not JMU. The interest from other schools to join - like Elon and Charleston - was influenced by establishing associations with UD and W&M primarily. Plus - W&M keeps URs interest and Delaware keeps Villanovas interest.

The CAA has prepped for JMUs move for years, they just don’t take the bait. I think they know, despite what you say, they get more recognition where they want it in the CAA (the East coach) than the Sun Belt, MAC or CUSA. You don’t have to look any further than UMass and ODU to see the fallacy of building recognition by leaving.

Delaware should be doing whatever it takes to move away from FCS

[NY Crusader 2010]

Delaware should be doing whatever it takes to move away from FCS

That ship has sailed.

[caribbeanhen]

That ship has sailed.

always be another boat, time will take care of it....

[NY Crusader 2010]

America East is out because they aren't an institutional fit. Nine public research schools plus the lone private (Hartford) whose been around for 35+ years.

NEC is the only fit plus their former NE-10 counterparts are already there.

New Haven doesn't belong in Division I unless the NEC is dead set on expanding and adding any warm body for either of the following reasons:

1) Challenges scheduling non-conference games in M/W Basketball. Because of recent waves of expansion at the P5 level, these schools are now playing a higher # of conference games, meaning less opportunities for guarantee games for the little guys. As a result, smaller conferences have been forced to follow suit and expand.

2) The NEC is looing to bring in more in membership fees by having more schools in the conference.

As a whole, the market for DI athletics both in the state of CT and in New England is pretty tapped out right now. I'm waiting for the rumors that St. Anselm and St. Michael's will be looking to make the jump next. How about the University of Bridgeport while we're at it?

[aceinthehole]

The only other New England school I've heard rumbling about D-I is Bentley, which currently plays D-I ice hockey and D-II football.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The only other New England school I've heard rumbling about D-I is Bentley, which currently plays D-I ice hockey and D-II football.

Bentley plays in the American Hockey Association, same league as Holy Cross. American International in Springfield is also in this league. Bentley recently upgraded their rink and a number of their athletic facilities. They may indeed be a candidate to move to D-I if the NEC finds the need to throw another sausage on the grill in coming years. Again, I'm of the belief that New England is getting a bit saturated when it comes to D-I schools. Seems like we're gradually heading towards the point where we should just go to two divisions. Every D-II school that's been decent at sports has been moving up over the last 20 years...

[Friday I'm in Love]

Delaware and W&M are the core of the CAA, not JMU. The interest from other schools to join - like Elon and Charleston - was influenced by establishing associations with UD and W&M primarily. Plus - W&M keeps URs interest and Delaware keeps Villanovas interest.

The CAA has prepped for JMUs move for years, they just don’t take the bait. I think they know, despite what you say, they get more recognition where they want it in the CAA (the East coast) than the Sun Belt, MAC or CUSA. You don’t have to look any further than UMass and ODU to see the fallacy of building recognition by leaving.

They’re not getting valuable exposure anywhere in the current CAA. The minute JMU gets a SBC/MAC/CUSA invite, they will be out in a New York minute.

[DFW HOYA]

They’re not getting valuable exposure anywhere in the current CAA. The minute JMU gets a SBC/MAC/CUSA invite, they will be out in a New York minute.

...And go where?

[Friday I'm in Love]

...And go where?

Whichever of CUSA/MAC/SBC invites them first. JMU may not have been enthusiastic with the SBC in the past, but things have changed. SBC has risen while CAA is not what it was.

When university presidents look at JMU’s budget and facilities, that school will be at the top of the list the next time there’s an FCS call-up.

[Sitting Bull]

They’re not getting valuable exposure anywhere in the current CAA. The minute JMU gets a SBC/MAC/CUSA invite, they will be out in a New York minute.

And you don’t think they have had the opportunity?

Do you think they haven’t seen the collapse of ODU? Were you aware they had the chance to move with them to CUSA 10 years ago?

I’m not advocating they stay in the CAA but posts like yours have been around 10 years now. There must be a reason they haven’t left. I think watching the disasters of UMass and ODU may have something to do with it. Both were successful CAA programs. Both today are shells of what they were. And this “valuable exposure” you speak of - how has that worked out for debt ridden UMass and ODU?

[Friday I'm in Love]

Were you aware they had the chance to move with them to CUSA 10 years ago?

Link or it didn’t happen.


I think watching the disasters of UMass and ODU may have something to do with it. Both were successful CAA programs. Both today are shells of what they were.

ODU will have gone from no football to rebuilding a stadium, hosting VA Tech 6 times, and the highest athletic budget at the CUSA/MAC/SBC level.

You may see it as “a shell of what they were” and “a disaster” but others may see that development as a school that’s grown its budget/facilities in making a long-term strategic decision.

If you’re right on JMU, they’ll reject any CUSA/MAC/SBC overtures next time there’s a call-up. If I’m a betting man, they’ll take the next invite that comes.

[Sitting Bull]

Link or it didn’t happen.



ODU will have gone from no football to rebuilding a stadium, hosting VA Tech 6 times, and the highest athletic budget at the CUSA/MAC/SBC level.

You may see it as “a shell of what they were” and “a disaster” but others may see that development as a school that’s grown its budget/facilities in making a long-term strategic decision.

If you’re right on JMU, they’ll reject any CUSA/MAC/SBC overtures next time there’s a call-up. If I’m a betting man, they’ll take the next invite that comes.

Link or it didn’t happen? Are you 15 years old? Research it yourself.

ODU bet the house on a league with no local interest and sacrificed a tremendously popular basketball program locally in the process. The only interest left is playing state teams OOC - all sports. They are hemorrhaging money. They gave up a lot just to host a couple of games against Virginia Tech in football.

To pretend JMU hasn’t had offers is ridiculous. It’s not a wealthy school, the bulk of their support comes from student fees. They don’t have a wealthy alumni base. They don’t have an urban market to support them, as in ODU. They can’t afford to make the same mistakes of ODU and UMass. That’s why they haven’t jumped yet.

I’m not arguing they won’t at sometime in the future but you can’t ignore it’s been analyzed there for years and the track record of the two that did jump - ODU and UMass - hasn’t really supported the case.

Now you have the impact of shutdowns which will be devastating on all schools.

[Libertine]

The Virginia legislature dramatically capped the % of athletic funding that can state schools can take from student fees in 2015 so, barring a massive change in what it costs to go FBS, I wouldn't expect any of the public FCS schools in VA to make that jump any time soon, JMU included.


[JMU]'s not a wealthy school.

I think you're right and that's why their 2013 FBS feasibility study was so inconclusive. As an in-state FCS observer, I've long suspected that the rising costs of JMU's campus-wide building boom from the late 2000's to mid-2010's, that included the expansion to Bridgeforth Stadium, had a negative impact on JMU's athletic budgets. Everett Withers' staff in 2014 was just loaded with coaching talent -- including the new head coach of the LA Chargers -- and those guys were getting paid peanuts.

[Friday I'm in Love]

Link or it didn’t happen? Are you 15 years old? Research it yourself.


You made the claim - you provide the link proving JMU turned down CUSA. That’s how burden of proof works.

For the record, I did research it and read 10 different articles. Each of them say JMU turned down the SBC with speculation they’re waiting for a MAC/CUSA opening.

I’ll keep researching. If you have a link proving it, you have my full credit.

[NY Crusader 2010]

5yo article that references JMU's invite to the SUN BELT in 2014, which they turned down.

https://www.underdogdynasty.com/2016/6/18/11857710/james-madison-university-jmu-dukes-harrisonburg-shenandoah-fbs

While they may have not been invited to CUSA, it has been implied more recently that they have an "open invite" if they decide to make the jump. Times have changed over the last 10 years. IMO, the Sun Belt would be a much better football move today than would CUSA. And JMU is purely a football school. I think there are actually a few schools in CUSA that should look to go back to the Sun Belt (Marshall, WKU, MTSU).

Especially post-lockdown, it is absolutely true that schools are starting to see that the marginal returns for "moving up" are dwindling.

[dgtw]

The Sun Belt and CUSA should get together and form two new leagues. Have one with the eastern schools and one with the western ones. Tell the non-football schools to take a hike or start sponsoring football.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aceinthehole]

I don't disagree with your sentiment - New England has its fill of small D-I programs and spent need a New Haven or a Bentley.

But other than jumping into D-I basketball a few decades earlier, there is very little difference in the overall institutional profiles between a Niagara and Assumption; or Wagner or Bentley; or Siena or Sacred Heart; or FDU or New Haven; and dare I say Holy Cross and Fairfield.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The Sun Belt and CUSA should get together and form two new leagues. Have one with the eastern schools and one with the western ones. Tell the non-football schools to take a hike or start sponsoring football.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the schools that currently comprise CUSA and the Sun Belt should form two leagues -- one football-centric league comprised of schools in the Appalachian region and interior south. The second league would be comprised of the schools on the Eastern seaboard from Virginia down, plus those in Texas and on the Gulf Coast. This could turn out to be a solid basketball conference.

Sun Belt (Appalachian Division)

1) Marshall
2) JMU
3) Liberty
4) Western Kentucky
5) MTSU
6) App State

Sun Belt (Gulf South Division)

1) Louisiana Tech
2) ULL
3) ULM
4) Troy
5) Georgia Southern
6) Arkansas State

CUSA East
1) FAU
2) FIU
3) ODU
4) Charlotte
5) South Alabama
6) Coastal Carolina
7) Georgia State

CUSA West
1) North Texas
2) Texas State
3) UTSA
4) UTEP
5) UAB
6) Southern Miss
7) Rice

[Sitting Bull]

Whichever of CUSA/MAC/SBC invites them first. JMU may not have been enthusiastic with the SBC in the past, but things have changed. SBC has risen while CAA is not what it was.

When university presidents look at JMU’s budget and facilities, that school will be at the top of the list the next time there’s an FCS call-up.

You seem to have missed their Sun Belt invite. So I guess you missed that one in your research, You were given that link.

On the MAC and CUSA, you can check the JMU board. They have info going back years in a single thread. On CUSA, they reportedly joined ODU at a joint meeting to discuss. ODU obviously wanted to pull JMU into their new pool as nearby ECU announced leaving CUSA literally weeks after ODU joined. On the MAC, they had discussions when UMass joined.

It’s obvious there will be discussions on opportunities before any formal invites. A formal invite is a formality once the agreement is in hand. JMU has been approached by all three and have not jumped ship. That’s really the point you apparently refuse to accept.

Either they don’t have the funds or are hesitant given they would be on the outer flank of any of the options. Frankly, none are any more attractive from a rivalry and association level than playing UR, Villanova, W&M and Delaware. Of course, like ODU, you might a get a few OOC home games with someone you covet, but to turn your entire program upside down for that is a bad bet (again, see UMass and ODU).

[Sitting Bull]

I think the schools that currently comprise CUSA and the Sun Belt should form two leagues -- one football-centric league comprised of schools in the Appalachian region and interior south. The second league would be comprised of the schools on the Eastern seaboard from Virginia down, plus those in Texas and on the Gulf Coast. This could turn out to be a solid basketball conference.

Sun Belt (Appalachian Division)

1) Marshall
2) JMU
3) Liberty
4) Western Kentucky
5) MTSU
6) App State

Sun Belt (Gulf South Division)

1) Louisiana Tech
2) ULL
3) ULM
4) Troy
5) Georgia Southern
6) Arkansas State

CUSA East
1) FAU
2) FIU
3) ODU
4) Charlotte
5) South Alabama
6) Coastal Carolina
7) Georgia State

CUSA West
1) North Texas
2) Texas State
3) UTSA
4) UTEP
5) UAB
6) Southern Miss
7) Rice

Nice work on these line- ups.

A few things jump out:
1) poor ODU. How exactly do they fit in CUSA. And how do you excite your local fan base in Norfolk with rivalries against any of these teams. The closest “rival” is minimum 300 miles away. Most aren’t even in the same time zone.
2) all leagues have combinations of natural rivalries. These leagues have none of those. The ACC has them, the Patriot has them, the CAA has them, the SEC has them, etc. Thats the glue that holds leagues together. These two examples just throw together schools whose ultimate aim is to be playing somewhere or someone else (an OOC drubbing from a nearby P5 team).
3) There’s not one of these schools who wouldn’t jump in a second for a better offer.

[DFW HOYA]

Rice fits in C-USA like Georgetown fits in the Patriot.

[Laker]

Nice work on these line- ups.

A few things jump out:
1) poor ODU. How exactly do they fit in CUSA. And how do you excite your local fan base in Norfolk with rivalries against any of these teams. The closest “rival” is minimum 300 miles away. Most aren’t even in the same time zone.
2) all leagues have combinations of natural rivalries. These leagues have none of those. The ACC has them, the Patriot has them, the CAA has them, the SEC has them, etc. Thats the glue that holds leagues together. These two examples just throw together schools whose ultimate aim is to be playing somewhere or someone else (an OOC drubbing from a nearby P5 team).
3) There’s not one of these schools who wouldn’t jump in a second for a better offer.

Speaking of rivalries- remember the contrived one between UConn and UCF? That really was a fantasy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Conflict

[Friday I'm in Love]

You seem to have missed their Sun Belt invite. So I guess you missed that one in your research, You were given that link.


To be clear, this was not in dispute. I’m aware they turned down the Sun Belt in the past - which is why I said in two separate posts:


JMU may not have been enthusiastic with the SBC in the past, but things have changed. SBC has risen while CAA is not what it was.


For the record, I did research it and read 10 different articles. Each of them say JMU turned down the SBC with speculation they’re waiting for a MAC/CUSA opening.

What is in dispute is whether they turned down CUSA. All I’m asking for is a link JMU turned down CUSA. If you’re going to insult someone and call them a 15-year-old for asking for a link, I’d assume the link would’ve been easy to find.

I’ll go read the whole JMU thread you suggested. Hopefully that’ll work. 20+ articles so far, and they’re speculating JMU was waiting for a MAC/CUSA opening after turning down SBC. No mention yet of turning down CUSA.

If you have a link proving JMU turned down CUSA, full credit to you.

[caribbeanhen]

The Cure? Really?

I guess my wife finally got a password to AGS

[Friday I'm in Love]

On the MAC, they had discussions when UMass joined.

The MAC exercised a clause in UMass’ contract to either join in all sports or withdraw FB-only membership. If UMass took full membership, the MAC would’ve invited JMU as #14. UMass did not take the full membership invite (thus football becoming independent), so the MAC never invited JMU.

The belief is JMU would have become the MAC’s 14th member if UMass accepted.

[WestCoastAggie]

The MAC exercised a clause in UMass’ contract to either join in all sports or withdraw FB-only membership. If UMass took full membership, the MAC would’ve invited JMU as #14. UMass did not take the full membership invite (thus football becoming independent), so the MAC never invited JMU.

The belief is JMU would have become the MAC’s 14th member if UMass accepted.

UMass trading the A-10 for the MAC? Eek.

Speaking of the A-10, I would guess if the A-10 restarted a football league, that could be a resolution.

[Sitting Bull]

The MAC exercised a clause in UMass’ contract to either join in all sports or withdraw FB-only membership. If UMass took full membership, the MAC would’ve invited JMU as #14. UMass did not take the full membership invite (thus football becoming independent), so the MAC never invited JMU.

The belief is JMU would have become the MAC’s 14th member if UMass accepted.

That’s why I said discussions. This isn’t new stuff you are throwing around.

Why don’t you just get to the point and answer your own question. You said JMU would jump at the first chance by any of these three.

So, why is it you think JMU isn’t actively pursuing any of them?

[Friday I'm in Love]

That’s why I said discussions. This isn’t new stuff you are throwing around.

Why don’t you just get to the point and answer your own question. You said JMU would jump at the first chance by any of these three.

So, why is it you think JMU isn’t actively pursuing any of them?

Because there isn’t an opening at the moment. CUSA/MAC/SBC are all staying put until someone loses a member.

My contention is next time one of those three expand, whether that’s in 2 years or 5 years, JMU will be invited and the school will accept.

If JMU doesn’t move up in the next round of call-ups, then I was wrong.

[melloware13]

I forget where/when I read it, but somewhere along the lines there was a comment that JMU turned down CUSA when ODU joined because JMU wanted to bring UD along

[Sitting Bull]

Because there isn’t an opening at the moment. CUSA/MAC/SBC are all staying put until someone loses a member.

My contention is next time one of those three expand, whether that’s in 2 years or 5 years, JMU will be invited and the school will accept.

If JMU doesn’t move up in the next round of call-ups, then I was wrong.

You should go on the JMU board and reassure them.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Rice fits in C-USA like Georgetown fits in the Patriot.

A much more accurate comparison would be Rice fits in C-USA like Towson fit in the Patriot when they were here.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Because there isn’t an opening at the moment. CUSA/MAC/SBC are all staying put until someone loses a member.

My contention is next time one of those three expand, whether that’s in 2 years or 5 years, JMU will be invited and the school will accept.

If JMU doesn’t move up in the next round of call-ups, then I was wrong.

The AAC has an opening. They are going to invite someone -- if it's not Air Force as a football only member, it will almost definitely be a current member of C-USA with top candidates being Rice, Charlotte or UAB IMO. Rice only because they would be able to get the vote of approval from the likes of Navy, Tulane and Tulsa.

So a CUSA opening will likely be there in near future. Let's see what happens.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Nice work on these line- ups.

A few things jump out:
1) poor ODU. How exactly do they fit in CUSA. And how do you excite your local fan base in Norfolk with rivalries against any of these teams. The closest “rival” is minimum 300 miles away. Most aren’t even in the same time zone.
2) all leagues have combinations of natural rivalries. These leagues have none of those. The ACC has them, the Patriot has them, the CAA has them, the SEC has them, etc. Thats the glue that holds leagues together. These two examples just throw together schools whose ultimate aim is to be playing somewhere or someone else (an OOC drubbing from a nearby P5 team).
3) There’s not one of these schools who wouldn’t jump in a second for a better offer.

If I'm ODU right now, I would actually take a page out of the UCONN playbook. They should lobby to join the Atlantic 10 which would allow them to reunite with fellow CAA ex-pats Richmond, George Mason and VCU. Then they should remain committed to FBS football. Worst case scenario, you play as an independent. Best case scenario ODU could leverage access to the fertile recruiting soil of the Norfolk/Hampton Rhodes/Virginia Beach area to get either CUSA or Sun Belt to let them play as a football-only member. Certainly no guarantee that pitch would work, but worth a try. Then build the athletic brand (which would be bolstered by the basketball fanbase being re-energized with increased local exposure in VA) with the ultimate goal of getting into the AAC for all sports.

[Sitting Bull]

Because there isn’t an opening at the moment. CUSA/MAC/SBC are all staying put until someone loses a member.
.

Can you provide a link that verifies all three of these leagues have stated absolutely no changes until someone loses a member?

[DFW HOYA]

If I'm ODU right now, I would actually take a page out of the UCONN playbook. They should lobby to join the Atlantic 10 which would allow them to reunite with fellow CAA ex-pats Richmond, George Mason and VCU. Then they should remain committed to FBS football. Worst case scenario, you play as an independent. Best case scenario ODU could leverage access to the fertile recruiting soil of the Norfolk/Hampton Rhodes/Virginia Beach area to get either CUSA or Sun Belt to let them play as a football-only member. Certainly no guarantee that pitch would work, but worth a try. Then build the athletic brand (which would be bolstered by the basketball fanbase being re-energized with increased local exposure in VA) with the ultimate goal of getting into the AAC for all sports.

That's a non-starter for ODU because conferences are increasingly unlikely to offer football-only members and there is no bowl potential as an independent unless you're ND, BYU, or have a multi-year bowl agreement under contract (Army). A bowl bid offers more in attention and revenues than any A-10 home game. Besides (and this is not meant to stir up talk about HC's place in the firmament), the A-10 is oversized and probably needs to be split in two.

Could they form the a "Rust Belt" conference with UMass, UConn, Buffalo, JMU, etc.? Not sure who would pay for a bowl bid, but ESPN has a lot of inventory.

[NY Crusader 2010]

That's a non-starter for ODU because conferences are increasingly unlikely to offer football-only members and there is no bowl potential as an independent unless you're ND, BYU, or have a multi-year bowl agreement under contract (Army). A bowl bid offers more in attention and revenues than any A-10 home game. Besides (and this is not meant to stir up talk about HC's place in the firmament), the A-10 is oversized and probably needs to be split in two.

Could they form the a "Rust Belt" conference with UMass, UConn, Buffalo, JMU, etc.? Not sure who would pay for a bowl bid, but ESPN has a lot of inventory.

You are absolutely correct that FBS conferences are increasingly less likely to allow football only members. Case in point: UMASS situation with MAC and UCONN situation with AAC. At the FCS level, see Monmouth football and the NEC when they opted to join the MAAC as full members. I said that ODU might have a FIGHTING CHANCE to leverage their location, a very important one for football recruiting, when it comes to negotiating a football-only membership to either SBC or CUSA.

Why are you comparing a bowl bid to one random A10 home game? Re-starting local rivalries with VCU, Richmond and George Mason would do a lot more to rejuvenate ODU athletics than would a Bahamas Bowl invite against Central Michigan.

[DFW HOYA]

Why are you comparing a bowl bid to one random A10 home game? Re-starting local rivalries with VCU, Richmond and George Mason would do a lot more to rejuvenate ODU athletics than would a Bahamas Bowl invite against Central Michigan.

The Bahamas Bowl is the low end of payouts ($225,000 per school). I'm not sure the marginal increase in A-10 attendance would equal the revenue of a possible bowl such as the Birmingham Bowl or Armed Forces Bowl ($1.3 million payout each) that C-USA does have a deal with. The more likely bowl payout per the C-USA contract is closer to the New Mexico Bowl ($1.05 million).

ODU already averages 78% capacity at the Ted Constant Center (capacity: 8,472), so I'm not sure how many extra fans the other A-10 schools would bring. ODU already has a regular series with ODU and UR.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The Bahamas Bowl is the low end of payouts ($225,000 per school). I'm not sure the marginal increase in A-10 attendance would equal the revenue of a possible bowl such as the Birmingham Bowl or Armed Forces Bowl ($1.3 million payout each) that C-USA does have a deal with. The more likely bowl payout per the C-USA contract is closer to the New Mexico Bowl ($1.05 million).

ODU already averages 78% capacity at the Ted Constant Center (capacity: 8,472), so I'm not sure how many extra fans the other A-10 schools would bring. ODU already has a regular series with ODU and UR.

What about the incremental March Madness payouts that would result from being a member of the A-10, which achieves more "tournament game appearances" than the CUSA most years, resulting in a higher payout per school? Note I think it was a wash this year as A-10 logged two appearances (St. Bonny blow out loss and VCU COVID forfeit) and CUSA also logged two with North Texas advancing. ODU would however have a much greater opportunity to secure an at-large bid as a member of the A-10 than as a CUSA member.

[Sitting Bull]

The Bahamas Bowl is the low end of payouts ($225,000 per school). I'm not sure the marginal increase in A-10 attendance would equal the revenue of a possible bowl such as the Birmingham Bowl or Armed Forces Bowl ($1.3 million payout each) that C-USA does have a deal with. The more likely bowl payout per the C-USA contract is closer to the New Mexico Bowl ($1.05 million).

ODU already averages 78% capacity at the Ted Constant Center (capacity: 8,472), so I'm not sure how many extra fans the other A-10 schools would bring. ODU already has a regular series with ODU and UR.

The A10 option would make a lot of sense for ODU. When you mention the attendance figures, the numbers are pumped by their OOC schedule where they bring in VCU, W&M, JMU, Mason and UR - any State team actually - on a rotating basis. Like football, the interest level in Norfolk for games against CUSA members is absent. You can understand why, the students and local fans have no interest or identity with 2nd tier schools from Florida, Texas and Louisiana.

On the football side, same issue which is why going Indy may not be a bad option for ODU. ODU was selling out their football capacity in the CAA so there has been no upside in attendance by moving to FBS. The stadium is no larger even though renovated. Butts in the seats though are visibly sliding as they bring in a menu of CUSA opponents. What saves them in part is the large urban market to draw from.

its of no large concern in these conversations though from a reality check, ODU has to find ways to cut travel costs while becoming relevant again in the Virginia market. They are bleeding on both fronts.