Movin' On Up?

[terrierbob]

Marc Serota

Boise State joined the college football big time in 1996, hoisting itself up to what was, in simpler times, called Division I-A from what was then Division I-AA. On Jan. 1, 2007, the Broncos upset Oklahoma 43-42 in a Fiesta Bowl game that ranks among the most thrilling in the history of the sport.

That established Boise as the fruition of smaller schools' wildest dreams about upward mobility in college football. The colder and more common reality can be found at the bottom of our rankings of 119 Division I-A teams over the past 10 years. The basement is where we find most of Boise's peers from the 1990s land rush from I-AA to I-A: dead last at No. 119 we have Buffalo (moved up in 1999); at No. 113 is Louisiana-Monroe (moved up in '94); at No. 107 is Arkansas State (moved up in '92); and at No. 106 is Idaho (moved up in '97). And don't forget the most recent additions, No. 117 Florida International (started football in 2002 and currently owns the worst winning percentage of them all) and No. 105 Florida Atlantic (started football in 2000).

Look at the have-nots and you can see that Boise is the ultimate exception to a hard-and-fast football rule: Upgrading is an incredibly painful, slow and humbling process. Ambition comes with a heavy price tag. Nouveau riche strivers tend to get their brains beaten in by the old-money bullies. They lose games and lose money, oftentimes stretching former I-AA budgets to the breaking point in the upgrade effort. Stadiums must be expanded to meet I-A specs, and other facilities must be built or refurbished to recruit against the established powers.

When the red ink flows, they take on "guarantee" games against power programs, accepting six-figure checks in exchange for fearful whippings on the road. That's the college football version of the poverty cycle, making the road from I-AA to BCS glory and riches a boulevard of broken dreams. Yet more and more schools want a piece of it, with I-A membership growing from 111 a decade ago to 119 today, and 120 tomorrow. Western Kentucky will be the newest member, giving up habitual I-AA success to join the downtrodden Sun Belt Conference in football.

[89Hen]

Look at the have-nots and you can see that Boise is the ultimate exception to a hard-and-fast football rule: Upgrading is an incredibly painful, slow and humbling process. Ambition comes with a heavy price tag. Nouveau riche strivers tend to get their brains beaten in by the old-money bullies. They lose games and lose money, oftentimes stretching former I-AA budgets to the breaking point in the upgrade effort...

Western Kentucky will be the newest member, giving up habitual I-AA success to join the downtrodden Sun Belt Conference in football.
Spot on. xnodx

BTW, can you please provide a link so we don't have copyright issues. xthumbsupx

[terrierbob]

Sorry.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?id=2945740&sportCat=ncf

[MplsBison]

Why was Boise State the exception?


USF went from nothing only years ago to being a contender in the Big East.



If you have the money, it is possible.

[89Hen]

Why was Boise State the exception?


USF went from nothing only years ago to being a contender in the Big East.
"Boise is the ultimate exception"... I take that to mean there are lesser exceptions. FWIW, USF was never truly a I-AA, they were more like FIU and FAU who were here only as a matter of necessity to move to I-A.

[OL FU]

It is a very good article. It shows that it can be done but that it is extremely rare. It should be a must read for the fans of "moving up". Nothing wrong with moving up but at least have a practical viewpoint of the future.

[PMB4Life]

Woo-ha... someone gets it!

[Ronbo]

If you only average under 12,000 fans and the Athletic Dept seems strapped to make any improvements year after year then you are not a good candidate for the next level. Otherwise why not go play with peers that draw 20,000 plus and easily land 2-3 and occasional 4 star recruits. It's a better product being put on the field. Even the Mid's like the WAC and MAC. It's like being in a Conference with 6-7 other teams that could win it all in FCS. It's about great competition vs. lot's of wins. I'll take the 6-6 record, even 4-8 the first couple years to get to the next level (WAC)and play with schools that are closer to our peers than the Big Sky schools are.

[MplsBison]

If NDSU levels off at where we are now, I think FCS will be a great home for many years.


If we continue the growth that we've seen in the last couple years, I think FBS is where we'll end up.

[ncman071]

i'm hoping App State announces something in a few years about the feesability of moving to FBS (IA). The main problem here is what conference we would be able to go to. The Sunbelt is an option however, geographically it doesn't make any sense unless they split the conference into seperate divisions. I wish Georgia Southern, UTC, Coastal, and a few others would consider forming a conference. I've heard that UNCC has discussed bringing football to their program which would give us another team in the conference. anyway, i'm not complaining about FCS. In fact, i love the playoff system and not just because App has been winning in the playoffs, but because their is no discussion at the end of the year about who SHOULD have won the national title.

[chattanoogamocs]

I think the article printed the Statesboro Herald last week was probably a little too rosy in the making the case for moving up.

...and I think this article was a little too harsh.

Of course, what would I expect from ESPN...if you aren't in a BCS bowl game or the top 25 every year, I guess they consider you a failure.

[PSUVikings]

Boise became a power solely because of coaching, from Pokey Allen, to Dan Hawkins, to Chris Petersen. and they have nothing else, I've been to Boise twice to see a football game. The stadium is alright, the town is and small, the water is brown, and their fans are all hicks. The only reason they are good is because of great coaching. If it wasn't for that who knows where Boise would be.

[TheBisonator]

If NDSU levels off at where we are now, I think FCS will be a great home for many years.


If we continue the growth that we've seen in the last couple years, I think FBS is where we'll end up.

I agree with you on that one. If the Fargo-Moorhead area keeps booming, and if NDSU's enrollment keeps growing, I see it as a good probability by the year 2020 (13 years from now). Especially considering that our athletic budget has more than doubled in the past 5 years to about $11 million this year, and our football attendance is already above the 15,000 minimum.

[TheBisonator]

Boise became a power solely because of coaching, from Pokey Allen, to Dan Hawkins, to Chris Petersen. and they have nothing else, I've been to Boise twice to see a football game. The stadium is alright, the town is and small, the water is brown, and their fans are all hicks. The only reason they are good is because of great coaching. If it wasn't for that who knows where Boise would be.

In Boise's defense, the city of Boise is not small. Boise's metro area has over half a million people. I mean, If Boise is a "small town" at 500,000, what does that make Fargo-Moorhead at 200,000??

[already123]

a small town...

[JohnStOnge]

Why was Boise State the exception?


USF went from nothing only years ago to being a contender in the Big East.



If you have the money, it is possible.

I actually think that USF and UConn are better examples of exceptions because they went to the Big East. Boise State had a moment in the Sun, but that doesn't mean the Broncos are going to stay there. They are not the first I-AA to beat a BCS league champion...they just did it on a bigger stage.

They are still 4 -11 against BCS league schools since the BCS started in 1998...and the "4" is only because they went 2-0 last season.

What I think we can say now is that Boise State had a moment in the sun. Whether that means it'll be a mainstream FBS power in the long run is open to question. In fact, if I had to bet, I'd bet "no."

The chances of actually establishing a FBS power program are best, I think, at South Florida because the Bulls are in a BCS league and, as compared to UConn, are in an area with more BCS league level talent.

[bandit]

How about Marshall? I don't see them mentioned. They've been pretty successful, I would say.

It seems to me that many of the FCS schools that have struggled at the FBS level weren't exactly at the top of the heap of then 1-AA. I think schools like Delaware, Montana, Ga Southern, App State, etc - the cream of the FCS crop - would fare better making a move to FBS than many of the schools mentioned in this article.

[SuperJon]

Didn't Marshall take advantage of a loophole in the rules though?

[PSUVikings]

In Boise's defense, the city of Boise is not small. Boise's metro area has over half a million people. I mean, If Boise is a "small town" at 500,000, what does that make Fargo-Moorhead at 200,000??

That is small for the FBS level. Portland is more and we are in the FCS. But yeah there are worse. Washington State's home, Pullman, 24 K, in the the town. But yes Boise is small compared to most schools.

[Lionsrking]

That is small for the FBS level. Portland is more and we are in the FCS. But yeah there are worse. Washington State's home, Pullman, 24 K, in the the town. But yes Boise is small compared to most schools.

Apparently you've never been to Oxford, MS, Starkville, MS, Auburn, AL, Tuscaloosa, AL, Fayetteville, AR, Blacksburg,VA, Clemson, SC, Manhattan, KS, Waco, TX, Charlottesville, VA, Ames, IA, Stillwater, OK, Columbia, MO...just to name a few off the top of my head. Those are all BCS FBS cities and towns that are smaller than Boise.

[ChooChoo]

you took the words right out of my keyboard. the FBS is filled with huge programs in tiny college towns.

[jessesd]

In Boise's defense, the city of Boise is not small. Boise's metro area has over half a million people. I mean, If Boise is a "small town" at 500,000, what does that make Fargo-Moorhead at 200,000??
A hick town!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Seriously,
As a comparison, Gainesville, Fl is only 150k inhabitants give or take, of those 44k are students, 13k are faculty and the rest are townies, Its a small town..... most of the fans usually commute over 2.5 hours for the games and some over 5 hours (Atlanta and Miami)..

Lincoln, Nebraska and Tallahassee, Fl (ughhh) are much smaller than Boise!!! The town population means nothing when you have a good product to sell.
Based on that... Fargo has a good location, good budget... the big boy in a state with limited distractions, ....
I can see some future from a business perspective in the Football market (Sorry UND fans), maybe even better than Boise and only time would tell!!!xtwocentsx xtwocentsx

[MplsBison]

In Boise's defense, the city of Boise is not small. Boise's metro area has over half a million people. I mean, If Boise is a "small town" at 500,000, what does that make Fargo-Moorhead at 200,000??

Minneapolis is considered a "small market" by the MLB at 3 million+.

[Mort]

Boise became a power solely because of coaching, from Pokey Allen, to Dan Hawkins, to Chris Petersen. and they have nothing else, I've been to Boise twice to see a football game. The stadium is alright, the town is and small, the water is brown, and their fans are all hicks. The only reason they are good is because of great coaching. If it wasn't for that who knows where Boise would be.

Actually, Boise State has the football program it does today because of three reasons: (1) money (2) political support and (3) community support. Without those three things, both several years ago when the idea for moving up to FBS became reality, and since then, Boise State would not be where they are today. If you don't believe that, ask around Boise some time among the people who know. Or ask the University of Idaho people. They moved up with BSU and have not enjoyed any of the three things mentioned above, let alone all of them. That's why they are where they are today.

BSU has more than just the football program itself. They also host a FBS bowl game every year and for several years BSU hosted first and second round NCAA men's basketball tournament games. Those are very strong signs of community support for the university and its athletic department.

Also, they have continued to make significant upgrades to their football stadium over the years and have more plans in place to continue to do so. Go to their athletic department web site, where they have an impressive video presentation of those plans.

Good coaching is certainly a major component of the on-field success they've had, but without the money. political clout and community support Boise State has enjoyed over the years, they wouldn't be where they are today. You should realize that better than most given the lack of financial, political and community support PSU athletics receives from Portland.

[OL FU]

How about Marshall? I don't see them mentioned. They've been pretty successful, I would say.

It seems to me that many of the FCS schools that have struggled at the FBS level weren't exactly at the top of the heap of then 1-AA. I think schools like Delaware, Montana, Ga Southern, App State, etc - the cream of the FCS crop - would fare better making a move to FBS than many of the schools mentioned in this article.

I would put them on the list as a success. Their football success has shrunk a little but my guess is that they still draw significantly more people than most for I-AA schools that moved up. ( Just a guess)

[ashram]

I would put them on the list as a success. Their football success has shrunk a little but my guess is that they still draw significantly more people than most for I-AA schools that moved up. ( Just a guess)

As a Furman fan, I don't think you're allowed to say something that nice about Marshall. :)

[OL FU]

As a Furman fan, I don't think you're allowed to say something that nice about Marshall. :)

I had to take a sedative before typing. xnodx

[pcola]

In Boise's defense, the city of Boise is not small. Boise's metro area has over half a million people. I mean, If Boise is a "small town" at 500,000, what does that make Fargo-Moorhead at 200,000??
A hick town!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Seriously,
As a comparison, Gainesville, Fl is only 150k inhabitants give or take, of those 44k are students, 13k are faculty and the rest are townies, Its a small town..... most of the fans usually commute over 2.5 hours for the games and some over 5 hours (Atlanta and Miami)..

Lincoln, Nebraska and Tallahassee, Fl (ughhh) are much smaller than Boise!!! The town population means nothing when you have a good product to sell.
Based on that... Fargo has a good location, good budget... the big boy in a state with limited distractions, ....
I can see some future from a business perspective in the Football market (Sorry UND fans), maybe even better than Boise and only time would tell!!!xtwocentsx xtwocentsx
I disagree that the town population means nothing. The MSA population of Gainesville is over 250,000. The state of Florida population is over 18,000,000. Gainesville and for that matter, Tallahassee, have quite a population from which to draw. North Dakota's entire population is less than 700,000 and Fargo's MSA is shown to be around 180,000. Yes there are quite a few BCS schools in small metro areas, but they are the flagship schools for their state and will draw from the nearby large metro areas. Manhattan is only 55 miles from Topeka and 120 miles from Kansas City. Oxford MS is 172 miles from Jackson and 85 miles from Memphis. NDSU would need to draw from MSP, which already has a BCS school (kind of) in University of Minnesota.

Where I do agree is that NDSU will most likely always outdraw UND in football. Fargo is bigger than Grand Forks and hockey is king at UND. If football draws above 12,000 at UND for the next few years, I would be happy. Futuristically, I hope UND can improve on that. NDSU would be more likely of the two to try the BCS route, but it would take some serious $$$$.

[SoCon48]

i'm hoping App State announces something in a few years about the feesability of moving to FBS (IA). The main problem here is what conference we would be able to go to. The Sunbelt is an option however, geographically it doesn't make any sense unless they split the conference into seperate divisions. I wish Georgia Southern, UTC, Coastal, and a few others would consider forming a conference. I've heard that UNCC has discussed bringing football to their program which would give us another team in the conference. anyway, i'm not complaining about FCS. In fact, i love the playoff system and not just because App has been winning in the playoffs, but because their is no discussion at the end of the year about who SHOULD have won the national title.

71, don't hold your breath waiting on UNC-C football. As long as Judy Rose is there, I just don't see it.

[aceinthehole]

Here are the 16 teams that have reclassified to I-A since 1992, listed in order of the year they moved, and includes their current conference affiliation:

1992
Arkansas State – Sun Belt
Nevada - WAC

1994
Louisiana-Monroe – Sun Belt

1995
North Texas – Sun Belt

1996
Boise State - WAC
Central Florida – C-USA

1997
Alabama-Birmingham – C-USA
Idaho – WAC

1998
Marshall – C-USA

1999
Buffalo - MAC
Middle Tennessee State – Sun Belt

2001
South Florida – Big East

2002
Connecticut – Big East
Troy – Sun Belt

2006
Florida Atlantic – Sun Belt
Florida International – Sun Belt

What grade would you give each school on the move (A-F) based on the sucess to date?

[dbackjon]

Here are the 16 teams that have reclassified to I-A since 1992, listed in order of the year they moved, and includes their current conference affiliation:

1992
Arkansas State – Sun Belt - F
Nevada - WAC - B

1994
Louisiana-Monroe – Sun Belt - F-

1995
North Texas – Sun Belt - C

1996
Boise State - WAC - A
Central Florida – C-USA - C

1997
Alabama-Birmingham – C-USA - C+
Idaho – WAC - F

1998
Marshall – C-USA - B

1999
Buffalo - MAC - D
Middle Tennessee State – Sun Belt - D

2001
South Florida – Big East - B

2002
Connecticut – Big East - B+
Troy – Sun Belt - B-

2006
Florida Atlantic – Sun Belt - D
Florida International – Sun Belt -F

What grade would you give each school on the move (A-F) based on the sucess to date?

[SuperJon]

Didn't Marshall take advantage of a loophole in the rules though?

I'm quoting myself just to see if I can get an answer for this. I remember reading they took advantage of a loophole that allowed them to be more ready for I-A than most schools, and that that rule has been changed. We're talking about it on FlameFans and I couldn't remember the specifics.

[Ronbo]

Here are the 16 teams that have reclassified to I-A since 1992, listed in order of the year they moved, and includes their current conference affiliation:

1992
Arkansas State – Sun Belt - F
Nevada - WAC - B

1994
Louisiana-Monroe – Sun Belt - F-

1995
North Texas – Sun Belt - C

1996
Boise State - WAC - A
Central Florida – C-USA - C

1997
Alabama-Birmingham – C-USA - C+
Idaho – WAC - F

1998
Marshall – C-USA - B

1999
Buffalo - MAC - D
Middle Tennessee State – Sun Belt - D

2001
South Florida – Big East - B

2002
Connecticut – Big East - B+
Troy – Sun Belt - B-

2006
Florida Atlantic – Sun Belt - D
Florida International – Sun Belt -F

What grade would you give each school on the move (A-F) based on the sucess to date?


I notice the WAC is a good place to thrive in Football and also other sports like Basketball where they usually get two in the Big Dance and one in the NIT. Watch Idaho turn it around in the next few years because they are out of the Sun Belt.

[SU Jag]

UAB a C+?xconfusedx I would put Troy before them. Troy has been to two Bowl games and has had winning seasons. UAB struggles with paid attendance and struggles to win games.

[bandit]

Here are the 16 teams that have reclassified to I-A since 1992, listed in order of the year they moved, and includes their current conference affiliation:

What grade would you give each school on the move (A-F) based on the sucess to date?

This is how I would view it... all just my opinion, of course.

Boise State: A+
BSC bowl victory, consistent winner. Cover of NCAA Football 2008 for the X-Box... how can you beat that? I wonder if folks watching Boise State/Idaho State games in the Big Sky only 12 years ago would imagine that Boise would beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl... I tend to doubt it.

South Florida: A
From nothing to the BCS in an incredibly short time. Still have attendence issues, but they may have their best team ever this year. They are rapidly building a major football power in Tampa, and could be scary to watch in a few years.

Connecticut: A-Immediate success with a bowl victory and BCS membership. Beautiful new facility with fantastic fan support. They've fallen off a bit as the Big East has improved, but they look to be a program that could rival Boston College for N.E. supremecy.

Marshall: B+
Rampaged through the MAC, although they are widely regarded as a renegade program. Haven't done so well in CUSA, and since they were sanctioned for various infractions. Still can't sell out their stadium and fan support appears to be on the wane. Still, one can't deny their bowl wins and success since moving to 1-A.

Central Florida: B+
One of the fastest growing regions in america and a huge school, UCF is pouring $$ into their program with new facilities on the horizon. Their time in the MAC was a bust, and they've been up and down in CUSA - but they appear to be building for the future in a serious way.

Florida Atlantic: B+
Howard Schnellenberger thinks big, I'll give him that. He's built a program from scratch down in Boca Raton, and they have been fairly competitive in the Sun Belt. If they ever get their domed stadium built, they could be a major player in the next decade or so. Of course, that's a big "IF."

Nevada: B
Although they still struggle at the gate, Nevada has become one of the stronger programs in the WAC on the field, and have a recent bowl victory. But they moved up in 1992.... 15 years have passed. They should be further along than they are.

North Texas: B
They dominated the Sun Belt for a long span, and appear to be making inroads in their local market. They were able to pull off the Sun Belt's first bowl victory against Cincinnati. But they've fallen back to the Sun Belt pack on the field and routinely get clobbered by better FBS teams.

Troy: B
Coming off a bowl victory last year, Troy has become one of the best programs in the Sun Belt. Their national-TV win over Missouri - with a packed house - was fun to watch. Troy routinely gets some of the best attendence numbers in the Sun Belt, and also has a win over Marshall to their credit.

Middle Tennessee: C
They've been respectable, and went to a bowl game last year, but MTSU has mostly underachieved. They allowed North Texas to take the early momentum in the Sun Belt, when MTSU was supposed to be the team to beat. They did get a win over Vanderbilt, but.... let's face it: it's Vandy. MTSU should be one of the top teams in the Sun Belt year in and year out, but so far it hasn't happened.

Arkansas State: D+
They've failed to make much of an impact in I-A/FBS. They have one bowl loss to a so-so CUSA team to their credit. Arkansas State seems to be unable to make much headway in a state totally devoted to the Arkansas Razorbacks.

UAB: D+
Watching their pitiful crowds at the cavernous stadium they play in is a little sad. They are under the thumb of the UA board of trustees and had very little flexibility in their recent coaching search. Despite having a couple decent teams, they've been unable to make any real progress in raising excitement locally about the team.

Florida International: D+
Program starting from scratch, and probably too early to judge... but so far, not particularly promising. Their biggest notoriety came from a brawl with the Miami Hurricanes. They have a couple close losses to BCS teams, but... meh. so what? The only reason the rating is this high is that FIU does appear to have some potential, and they've been a tough out for a program so new to the game of football.

Louisiana-Monroe: D
They've essentially been a joke for most of their time in 1-A. Terrible attendence numbers, and lots of lopsided losses against better FBS teams. They've shown a glimmer of promise in the recent years, so maybe they will turn it around.

Idaho: F
Strong 1-AA team, terrible failure in 1-A. Smallest stadium in 1-A, and unable to beat anybody with a pulse.

Buffalo: F
Terrible fan support, terrible on-the-field product. OH, if only I had been able to be in the stands for the 9-6 OT slugfest against Temple last year. Now THAT is scintillating football.

[89Hen]

Currently...

Boise State - WAC - A+
Connecticut – Big East - A
South Florida – Big East - B+
Troy – Sun Belt - B
Nevada - WAC - B
North Texas – Sun Belt - B
Central Florida – C-USA - B-
Arkansas State – Sun Belt - C
Alabama-Birmingham – C-USA - C
Marshall – C-USA - C (too much bad crap)
Middle Tennessee State – Sun Belt - C
Idaho – WAC - D
Louisiana-Monroe – Sun Belt - F
Buffalo - MAC - F

Florida Atlantic – Sun Belt - I
Florida International – Sun Belt - I

[Ronbo]

Nevada: B
Although they still struggle at the gate, Nevada has become one of the stronger programs in the WAC on the field, and have a recent bowl victory. But they moved up in 1992.... 15 years have passed. They should be further along than they are.


A premiere program at the gate and on the court in Basketball. They couldn't have done that in the Big Sky.

[OL FU]

Marshall averaged a little over 26,000 per game in '06. Considering the type of program they had at one time I would think that would be disappointing. I thought they had more fans in the stands in the mid-90's ( or maybe I was counting teeth:D old joke:o )

[89Hen]

Marshall averaged a little over 26,000 per game in '06. Considering the type of program they had at one time I would think that would be disappointing. I thought they had more fans in the stands in the mid-90's ( or maybe I was counting teeth:D old joke:o )
I was thinking the same thing. They were as good then, drew as many fans as then... they just didn't get to play for a meaningless bowl win then. I may need to change that C to an F.

[OL FU]

I was thinking the same thing. They were as good then, drew as many fans as then... they just didn't get to play for a meaningless bowl win then. I may need to change that C to an F.


I believe the move to I-A would have to be judged by several criteria with one being success on the field. However, with the money involved in moving up you have to anticipate some financial gain from the move. One way would be increased donations but that would be a little difficult to measure as far as how donations were impacted by the I-A move. The other would be butts in the seats and it sounds like Marshall has not been as successful in that regard as I would have imagined.


:D :D :D :D :D :D I am having a difficult time hiding my shameful happiness at that situation:D :D :D :D :D

[bandit]

I believe the move to I-A would have to be judged by several criteria with one being success on the field. However, with the money involved in moving up you have to anticipate some financial gain from the move. One way would be increased donations but that would be a little difficult to measure as far as how donations were impacted by the I-A move. The other would be butts in the seats and it sounds like Marshall has not been as successful in that regard as I would have imagined.


:D :D :D :D :D :D I am having a difficult time hiding my shameful happiness at that situation:D :D :D :D :D

The first sell-out of their stadium will be this coming September when Marshall hosts WVU for the first time ever (after begging and pleading with the state govt. for years to force the series). I would imagine half of the folks in the stands will be wearing gold and blue.

Even with home games against Kansas State and other BCS-league programs, and with all of their success with Moss, Pennington, etc, Marshall has still NEVER sold out their relatively small stadium.

[GoldandBlack]

The first sell-out of their stadium will be this coming September when Marshall hosts WVU for the first time ever (after begging and pleading with the state govt. for years to force the series). I would imagine half of the folks in the stands will be wearing gold and blue.

Even with home games against Kansas State and other BCS-league programs, and with all of their success with Moss, Pennington, etc, Marshall has still NEVER sold out their relatively small stadium.

Sounds like a classic case of too-big-for-your-britches-itis to me.

I share OL FU's shameless enjoyment of their predicament.xnodx

[OL FU]

The first sell-out of their stadium will be this coming September when Marshall hosts WVU for the first time ever (after begging and pleading with the state govt. for years to force the series). I would imagine half of the folks in the stands will be wearing gold and blue.

Even with home games against Kansas State and other BCS-league programs, and with all of their success with Moss, Pennington, etc, Marshall has still NEVER sold out their relatively small stadium.

I know a few WVU fans and they were none too happy about thisxmadx

[89Hen]

I would imagine half of the folks in the stands will be wearing gold and blue.
Doubtful. Even though they may not sell-out, AFAIK Marshall is very heavily weighted toward season ticket holders, like Montana. For comparison...

Montana = 23,000 fans with something like 18,000 season tix holders (Griz fans help me)

Delaware = 22,000 fans with about 11,000 season tix holders.

[bandit]

I know a few WVU fans and they were none too happy about thisxmadx

Most WVU fans were outraged about it because it created scheduling and financial problems for WVU, and also because Marshall fans never waste an opportunity to try and bash WVU.... and yet they need a series with WVU to help prop their program.

But ultimately I think it's going to be a case of "be careful what you wish for." Marshall fans are going to regret forcing the issue, IMHO. I'm sure they were second-guessing after their 41-10 beatdown last year in the first game of the series against WVU.

Marshall has never beaten WVU in its history. We'll see if that still holds true after the current series is complete.

[bandit]

Doubtful. Even though they may not sell-out, AFAIK Marshall is very heavily weighted toward season ticket holders, like Montana. For comparison...

Montana = 23,000 fans with something like 18,000 season tix holders (Griz fans help me)

Delaware = 22,000 fans with about 11,000 season tix holders.

Excellent point. And if I recall correctly, MU isn't selling individual tix to this game, only thru season tickets.

That being said, I know that quite a few WVU fans bought MU season tix just to attend this one game, and also there are many MU fans who are going to be willing to sell their tix to WVU fans, considering the demand among WVU fans - with a team in the Top 5 - is going to be quite high.

But yeah, I overstated - it probably won't be 50% WVU fans, but there will still be a substantial # of WVU fans in Huntington for that game.

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm quoting myself just to see if I can get an answer for this. I remember reading they took advantage of a loophole that allowed them to be more ready for I-A than most schools, and that that rule has been changed. We're talking about it on FlameFans and I couldn't remember the specifics.

I could be wrong about this, and I'm sure a SoCon fan (*coughcough*OLFU*cough*) would give you better details, but I don't believe there was any sort of loophole. They were recruiting and handing out money like they were a I-A program even though they were still I-AA, therefore breaking the rules, but because of the better talent they amassed, were far more prepared for when they started their I-A journey.

Hope that helps xthumbsupx

[OL FU]

I could be wrong about this, and I'm sure a SoCon fan (*coughcough*OLFU*cough*) would give you better details, but I don't believe there was any sort of loophole. They were recruiting and handing out money like they were a I-A program even though they were still I-AA, therefore breaking the rules, but because of the better talent they amassed, were far more prepared for when they started their I-A journey.

Hope that helps xthumbsupx

I could not remember old age I guess. I did a little research and they were supplying (and it was well known in the admin part of the University not just the Athletic part) jobs to the athletes. they were also handing out exams ahead of time for study purposes and there were a few other things they did.

I also seem to recall hearing that they stockpiled scholarships. Now I hate to say this because I cannot find anything on it but I want to think they were giving out the I-A # of schollies (even though the players were not suiting up) while they were in I-A. I hope I am not spreading rumors ( oh wait this is Marshall, I could really give a ****)

PS, Marshall has always been in trouble. They were sanctioned prior to the plane crash back in the 60's. There basketball team was sanctioned int he 80's and then their football team twice ( I believe) since '96xrolleyesx

And in case I forgot to mention it..............Marshall suxxnodx

[89Hen]

but there will still be a substantial # of WVU fans in Huntington for that game.
xnodx No doubt. I went the WVU/UVA bowl game a few years ago and there were 50,000 WVU fans compared to 22,000 UVA fans.

[SoCon48]

I could not remember old age I guess. I did a little research and they were supplying (and it was well known in the admin part of the University not just the Athletic part) jobs to the athletes. they were also handing out exams ahead of time for study purposes and there were a few other things they did.

I also seem to recall hearing that they stockpiled scholarships. Now I hate to say this because I cannot find anything on it but I want to think they were giving out the I-A # of schollies (even though the players were not suiting up) while they were in I-A. I hope I am not spreading rumors ( oh wait this is Marshall, I could really give a ****)

PS, Marshall has always been in trouble. They were sanctioned prior to the plane crash back in the 60's. There basketball team was sanctioned int he 80's and then their football team twice ( I believe) since '96xrolleyesx

And in case I forgot to mention it..............Marshall suxxnodx

Could your disdain for the Herd have anything to do with the fact they beat (sometimes badly) the Paladins 7 of the last 10 times they faced each other?xrulesx

[DaveK]

If NDSU levels off at where we are now, I think FCS will be a great home for many years.


If we continue the growth that we've seen in the last couple years, I think FBS is where we'll end up.

If NDSU were foolish enough to make yet another move up so soon after having just made one they would join the likes of Buffalo, Louisiana-Monroe, Arkansas State, and Idaho.

Moving up again within the next 10 years would be a case of too much, too soon. If they stick around and pay their dues in I-AA for 25-30 years, then maybe they could attempt to pull a Boise State. But let's see if they can win a championship or two at this level before they get too far ahead of themselves.

[OL FU]

Could your disdain for the Herd have anything to do with the fact they beat (sometimes badly) the Paladins 7 of the last 10 times they faced each other?xrulesx

My recollection is that in the overall any way we were ahead by a decent margin. My disdain for the herd is quite simply they were and probably still are cheaters. xnodx

Now if that is ok in your book, our books our differentxrolleyesx

[SoCon48]

Well yeah, overall, includes like 1928 or so.
And no, it's not OK to cheat, but I feel your disdain for the Herd doesn't lie solely in their ethics.

[OL FU]

Well yeah, overall, includes like 1928 or so.
And no, it's not OK to cheat, but I feel your disdain for the Herd doesn't lie solely in their ethics.


You should stop feelingxrolleyesx

[Ronbo]

I see a tremendous amount of disrespect for Idaho. Idaho is projected to go 3-9 this year and 2-6 in the WAC.

If Idaho smokes Cal Poly what will that say about this division?

At least Idaho has the cahones to go to the next level and play the big boys. That gets respect from me.

And it is also funny to me all the guys critisizing schools that average 16,000 to 25,000 fans when this division averages about 6000 fans when all the schools are averaged together.

[bandit]

I see a tremendous amount of disrespect for Idaho. Idaho is projected to go 3-9 this year and 2-6 in the WAC.

If Idaho smokes Cal Poly what will that say about this division?

At least Idaho has the cahones to go to the next level and play the big boys. That gets respect from me.

And it is also funny to me all the guys critisizing schools that average 16,000 to 25,000 fans when this division averages about 6000 fans when all the schools are averaged together.

I have tremendous respect for Idaho making the move. Unfortunately for them, thus far it has not paid off in a positive way for their program. Maybe that will change after being in the WAC for a few years.

Schools in FCS may average 6k fans - while in FCS - but presumably most FCS schools would show an increase in attendence with a move to FBS and home games against FBS teams. It's not fair to compare FCS and FBS attendence numbers, and thus entirely appropriate to make note of how some FBS teams draw poorly at their level, IMHO.

[bandit]

xnodx No doubt. I went the WVU/UVA bowl game a few years ago and there were 50,000 WVU fans compared to 22,000 UVA fans.


nice picture! But man that game was a debacle xoopsx xoopsx

[bandit]

My recollection is that in the overall any way we were ahead by a decent margin. My disdain for the herd is quite simply they were and probably still are cheaters. xnodx

Now if that is ok in your book, our books our differentxrolleyesx

xthumbsupx Marshall has always had a reputation for being a dirty program.

[SoCon48]

You should stop feelingxrolleyesx
It's more than a feeling. It's just so obvious.

[OL FU]

It's more than a feeling. It's just so obvious.

Well let's see. I have been known to make jokes about schools but it is usually obvious that I am making a joke. On the other hand in dealing with schools on a serious matter, I rarely criticize so vehemently. As much as I might hate to admit it, our record against ASU has not been absolutely wonderful in recent years, but I have a made serious similar comments about ASU? No. Our record against GSU has never been good, but I don't think I have come close to that type of tirade with respect to them. I may not be a fan of either school but I respect both.

Now I clearly stated that Marshall has had repeat NCAA violations. I have repeatedly said they cheat. I have stated my disdain for Marshall often and loudly. It seems clear where the difference is. It seems clear why I dislike Marshall (who beat us near the end of their I-AA period) and respect ASU (who has beat us more recently) and GSU (who has beat us throughout the series).

Now I suppose I should defer to your supernatural powers and just admit that I don't like Marshall because they beat us during their years of cheating but I think it would be more accuate to say I dislike Marshall because they cheated to beat us.

[PMB4Life]

I see a tremendous amount of disrespect for Idaho. Idaho is projected to go 3-9 this year and 2-6 in the WAC.

If Idaho smokes Cal Poly what will that say about this division?

At least Idaho has the cahones to go to the next level and play the big boys. That gets respect from me.

And it is also funny to me all the guys critisizing schools that average 16,000 to 25,000 fans when this division averages about 6000 fans when all the schools are averaged together.

SHENANIGANS.

Idaho will NOT smoke Cal Poly. They might beat them, but they will NOT smoke them. They can't even beat lowly Montana, for Pete's sake. And don't give me that "we draw 23,000 fans and are the flagship university" nonsense. You mean to tell me that THE University of Idaho shouldn't be their flagship school?

Idaho is hemorraghing money at the I-A level. That's not cojones, that's just stupid. If I challenge a 7'1", 350 pound man to a fight, I'm not brave, I'm a bleepin' idiot.

[MplsBison]

If the U of ID were in Boise, things would be very different.



But as of now, athletically, Boise State is the flagship of Idaho.



I wouldn't put Idaho that much ahead of Idaho State athletically.

[galojay]

Things don't happen over night. We are all impatient people and expect instant results. A move from FCS to FBS is not an overnight process. It takes time to build a program. Louisville spent decades at mediocre at best. Other, now strong programs, have spent much time in the cellars of I-A football.

At WKU, we know it's a process. What we do now is building for the future. You have to start somewhere. Our hope is in 15-20 years we can say this was a great move for the University. It is not fair to the process to make that type of assessment in five years.

[TheValleyRaider]

Things don't happen over night. We are all impatient people and expect instant results. A move from FCS to FBS is not an overnight process. It takes time to build a program. Louisville spent decades at mediocre at best. Other, now strong programs, have spent much time in the cellars of I-A football.

At WKU, we know it's a process. What we do now is building for the future. You have to start somewhere. Our hope is in 15-20 years we can say this was a great move for the University. It is not fair to the process to make that type of assessment in five years.

In WKU's defense, as a short-term move this has some benefits for them, most notably getting as many of their sports as possible into one conference, the Sun Belt. AGS's collective opinion on the conference's FBS quality nonwithstanding, it puts WKU together with rivals they are used to seeing in other sports, making the matchups more attractive to the WKU fan who might otherwise be less passionate about football.

As mentioned previously, this is the exception and not the rule, as those who would wish for Montana and others to go up might be less-inclined if the WAC actually put up a "No Vacancies" sign. xtwocentsx

[89Hen]

nice picture! But man that game was a debacle xoopsx xoopsx
Not for us UVA fans. :D

[89Hen]

At least Idaho has the cahones to go to the next level and play the big boys. That gets respect from me.
xeyebrowx at best.

[89Hen]

Our hope is in 15-20 years...
xeyebrowx again at best.

[bandit]

Not for us UVA fans. :D

sigh.... too true. xmadx Living in northern virginia, I had to hear it quite a bit from UVA fans over that game. Not one of our better moments, unfortunately. xsmhx


But things have gotten better since then for WVU. I'd love to see a WVU/UVA series one of these days. Since we no longer play Virginia Tech, it would be cool to start up another rivalry game. Probably never happen, though.

[galojay]

Might I add, WKU hasn't played a single game yet as a FBS institution and we've already received several benefits.

1) $5 Million gift to WKU Football Stadium - because we are going FBS.
2) A 10 year contract with Host Communications where they buy our media and marketing inventory -- no FCS school has a contract like this-- only in FBS does this become an option.

And their more coming down the pipeline in the near future.

[89Hen]

But things have gotten better since then for WVU. I'd love to see a WVU/UVA series one of these days. Since we no longer play Virginia Tech, it would be cool to start up another rivalry game. Probably never happen, though.
I think as long as you have the Maryland game, probably not.

[OL FU]

Might I add, WKU hasn't played a single game yet as a FBS institution and we've already received several benefits.

1) $5 Million gift to WKU Football Stadium - because we are going FBS.
2) A 10 year contract with Host Communications where they buy our media and marketing inventory -- no FCS school has a contract like this-- only in FBS does this become an option.

And their more coming down the pipeline in the near future.

Don't worry about what we consider succeeding. The real test of success is whether the fans like it better.

[aceinthehole]

I though this was intersting. Clearly the move to FBS isn't always going to work out, but by the informal grading so far just 6 out of 16 schools were generally considered total failures:

UAB
Ark St
LA-Monroe
Idaho
Buffalo
FIU

2 more received very poor marks.
FAU
MTSU

So, at worst, only half of the I-A upgrades in the past 15 years were failures. So is the "sucess rate" close to 50%? That's not too bad.

[aceinthehole]

I though this was intersting. Clearly the move to FBS isn't always going to work out, but by the informal grading so far just 6 out of 16 schools were generally considered total failures:

UAB
Ark St
LA-Monroe
Idaho
Buffalo
FIU

2 more received very poor marks.
FAU
MTSU

So, at worst, only half of the I-A upgrades in the past 15 years were failures. So is the "success rate" close to 50%? That's not too bad.

[89Hen]

So, at worst, only half of the I-A upgrades in the past 15 years were failures. So is the "success rate" close to 50%? That's not too bad.
That's one way to look at it, heck that's Hall of Fame in the NBA and MLB. :p

[blueraiderfn]

Yeah, you guys should stay 1AA. The home games against the MAC, the Big East, the ACC...they get to be really boring. I won't even mention the away games against the SEC...Boooorrrriinnngggg. I would much rather play Slippery Rock. (please note "sarcasm")

[Sly Fox]

MTSU in the house.

BTW I agree wholeheartedly. I love I-AA/FCS but to completely dismiss the lower level of I-A/FBS as a waste of time is over the top IMHO.

[blueraiderfn]

MTSU in the house.

BTW I agree wholeheartedly. I love I-AA/FCS but to completely dismiss the lower level of I-A/FBS as a waste of time is over the top IMHO.

The problem is: When the Sunbelt first formed (in it's current configuration), you basically had 1AA team playing 1A opponents. We couldn't even beat the 1AA opponents half the time. Those days are pretty much gone. Every once in a while you see even a BCS team lose to a 1AA, so no 1A team is above it, but those days will be very rare. Most of the Sunbelt has 1A coaches, with 1A players and we are starting to get 1A home games. Too many people are judging the Sunbelt by their recent history, but I can tell you this: there is a reason we went 4-3 against Conf USA last year with a won over the Conf USA champ Houston Cougars, and that is we are a much better conference all the way around than we were even 3 years ago. Things are much different today.

[SuperJon]

There's also a reason you were dead last in RPI in I-A football.

[SuperJon]

You guys want a semi-funny read? Look at this thread (really starts going mid-way down the first page) about the LU fans thinking their too big for their britches and thinking we should go I-A sometime around next Thursday.

http://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5127

[Cocky]

The problem is: When the Sunbelt first formed (in it's current configuration), you basically had 1AA team playing 1A opponents. We couldn't even beat the 1AA opponents half the time. Those days are pretty much gone. Every once in a while you see even a BCS team lose to a 1AA, so no 1A team is above it, but those days will be very rare. Most of the Sunbelt has 1A coaches, with 1A players and we are starting to get 1A home games. Too many people are judging the Sunbelt by their recent history, but I can tell you this: there is a reason we went 4-3 against Conf USA last year with a won over the Conf USA champ Houston Cougars, and that is we are a much better conference all the way around than we were even 3 years ago. Things are much different today.

But your co-champ lost to UAB.

[Franks Tanks]

Yeah, you guys should stay 1AA. The home games against the MAC, the Big East, the ACC...they get to be really boring. I won't even mention the away games against the SEC...Boooorrrriinnngggg. I would much rather play Slippery Rock. (please note "sarcasm")

You obviously play some worthy oponents, but the Sun-Belt is basically the same at the Gateway or Socon with a few more scholarships and a few more games againt non-sunbelt FBS schools.

[blueraiderfn]

You obviously play some worthy oponents, but the Sun-Belt is basically the same at the Gateway or Socon with a few more scholarships and a few more games againt non-sunbelt FBS schools.

Well, let's see: 3 wins against Vanderbilt (one with Cutler at QB and Two SEC wins under his belt before we broke his will), One win against Akron (with Charlie Frye at the helm), took Mizzou to overtime and lost by 1, beat La Tech by about 30, did the same to South Florida (that's MT), beat Marshall twice, beat #17 Missouri, beat Mississippi State, crushed Rice in the New Orleans Bowl last year (that's Troy), beat SMU, Hawaii, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Cincinatti, etc etc etc. I won't even go into the TV schedule and the fact that we are adding another bowl game..Sure it's just like the Gateway or SoConn.

[blueraiderfn]

There's also a reason you were dead last in RPI in I-A football.

Yeah, we were BARELY edged out by the MAC:

11 Mid-American 43.62
12 Sun Belt 43.23


Also:

17 AA Southern 36.84
16 AA Gateway 36.99

[blueraiderfn]

But your co-champ lost to UAB.

So did East Carolina and Memphis...So what? It's 1A, chief. There are no guarnteed wins.

[SuperJon]

Barely edged out, but still edged out.

[OL FU]

Goody we have one of the giants of I-A in our presencexeekx

[SoCon48]

Goody we have one of the giants of I-A in our presencexeekx

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Cocky]

So did East Carolina and Memphis...So what? It's 1A, chief. There are no guarnteed wins.

YOu were the one talking about how well you did against CUSA and their champ.

[blueraiderfn]

YOu were the one talking about how well you did against CUSA and their champ.

Uh...Yeah...The Conf USA champ lost a conference game too...So what? You think we should win every game?

[blueraiderfn]

Barely edged out, but still edged out.

And how far were you guys from being "edged out?" More than a few points, I believe.

[MplsBison]

Blueraiderfn, I appreciate you coming here to defend your team.

MT is very good program. Very respectable the last few seasons.



But you're wasting your time here.


Most people on this board refuse to acknowledge FBS as football.


They only recognize FCS as the top level of competition in NCAA football.

[OL FU]

Blueraiderfn, I appreciate you coming here to defend your team.

MT is very good program. Very respectable the last few seasons.



But you're wasting your time here.


Most people on this board refuse to acknowledge FBS as football.


They only recognize FCS as the top level of competition in NCAA football.


Not true. FBS football is great. Not doubt top of the line as far as athletes and coaches. I realize some run the sunbelt down but a large number of posters have said many of the teams that moved to the sunbelt were not failures or were successes. People have different opinions, what most of us don't want is the "FBS attitude". Come to discuss, but Mr MTSU fan seemed more likely hear to throw a few spit balls


His first post:

"Yeah, you guys should stay 1AA. The home games against the MAC, the Big East, the ACC...they get to be really boring. I won't even mention the away games against the SEC...Boooorrrriinnngggg. I would much rather play Slippery Rock. (please note "sarcasm")"

[henfan]

Yeah, you guys should stay 1AA. The home games against the MAC, the Big East, the ACC...they get to be really boring.

Plus the hip hop concerts are great. I went to a Big Boi concert once and a Blue Raider football game broke out.xlolx

[RaiderInTheZone]

Plus the hip hop concerts are great. I went to a Big Boi concert once and a Blue Raider football game broke out.xlolx

You pluralized "concert." I can only recall of ONE time in our school's history where a FORMER athletic director used a concert gimmick to increase attendance. It wouldn't be something I'd do, and it's not something our current AD Chris Massaro would do.

A great deal has changed over the past three years at Middle Tennessee. New AD, new football coach, stadium improvements including one-of-a-kind fieldturf, videoscoreboard, and other improvements I'm not obligated to speak about because the university hasn't made them public.

A new $6 million baseball stadium is on the way. 2 new videoscoreboards for the basketball arena will be funcitional by this season.

I think you guys find it too easy to take shots at 1-A schools that don't finish with winning records in football every year, but you neglect the fact that most of those 1-A schools in football have improved drastically in other sports as a result to the move in 1-A.

The #1 high school recruit in women's basketball has narrowed her choices to four schools: UConn, Tennessee, Villanova, and Middle Tennessee. That would never happen if we were still in the OVC. You all our welcomed to whatever opinions you wish of Boise, us, Marshall, and others that have jumped to 1-A. It won't change the fact that those schools will never move back down to 1-AA.

Much is changing in the world of 1-A as well. When the BCS contract expires in the next year or so, the NCAA is looking at doing a semi-playoff with the Power Six teams that get automatic bids to the BCS bowls. It's a step in the right direction.

[TheCatamount]

Money is the whole key, if you have money anyhing can be done football wise

[EKU05]

Why was Boise State the exception?


USF went from nothing only years ago to being a contender in the Big East.



If you have the money, it is possible.

Like someone else already briefly mentioned, USF had a stated goal of being I-A from day one. They were quite open about that. They averaged something like 27,000 for home games right out of the gate, and what few people realize is that they are actually the largest school in Florida...significantly bigger than UF, FSU, and of course private Miami. It is, of course, and NCAA rule that no new program can begin in FBS. You have to start in FCS and transition.

Boise State was a long time I-AA member before moving up to what is now FBS. They are, in fact, a legit success story of a move up in classification. They are basically the only one that really exists unless you count Marshall which was also only a temporary I-AA team as they recovered from their tragic plane crash.

But you are right about one thing...the money is a big part of what makes it possible...which is why it is no surprise that a school like USF was able to do the things they've already done.

[MplsBison]

USF's wiki page has themselves listed as the 3rd largest university in FL.

[henfan]

You pluralized "concert." I can only recall of ONE time in our school's history where a FORMER athletic director used a concert gimmick to increase attendance.

Dude, if you're going to come over here telling us all how great Sun Belch football is compared with FCS, you'd better come with a sense of humor. Obviously I was using hyperbole to make a joke about MTSU's desparate attempt to get above the 15K attendance threshold. xsmhx

Fortunately for you guys, the FBS hangers-on were able to wield enough opposition to gut the already paltry FBS minimum attendance requirements. (It's odd how the attendance numbers jumped above 15K for several teams the year after self-auditing was permitted, huh?;) )

If hemmoraging money, losing games and playing to half-filled stadiums is MTSU's idea of greeeeat football, that's their choice. Just don't attempt to convince us it's necessarily a better option than FCS. Too often that's not the case.

[blueraiderfn]

If hemmoraging money, losing games and playing to half-filled stadiums is MTSU's idea of greeeeat football, that's their choice. Just don't attempt to convince us it's necessarily a better option than FCS. Too often that's not the case.

It's simple, kids: If it's not for you, then don't do it. If it's not for you and we are doing it, then don't be concerned about the fact that we are doing it. TRUST MT when I say that our athletics program has more money (all the way around) that it has ever had in the history of the university. Our donations are way up after last years bowl game. If you can't move up, don't bash those that can. It's obvious that you people are full of jealousy. NO ONE ON THE PLANET CARES ABOUT 1AA FOOTBALL OUTSIDE OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD. That's not smack talk, it's just a fact...

[89Hen]

If you can't move up, don't bash those that can. It's obvious that you people are full of jealousy. NO ONE ON THE PLANET CARES ABOUT 1AA FOOTBALL OUTSIDE OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD. That's not smack talk, it's just a fact...
Then why are you even here? xcoolx The door is over there ---------->

[ashram]

It's simple, kids: If it's not for you, then don't do it. If it's not for you and we are doing it, then don't be concerned about the fact that we are doing it. TRUST MT when I say that our athletics program has more money (all the way around) that it has ever had in the history of the university. Our donations are way up after last years bowl game. If you can't move up, don't bash those that can. It's obvious that you people are full of jealousy. NO ONE ON THE PLANET CARES ABOUT 1AA FOOTBALL OUTSIDE OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD. That's not smack talk, it's just a fact...

I think someone has playoff envy.

Seriously, why would you come to an FCS message board just to talk smack about FCS football? Has it escaped you that OUTSIDE OF MTSU NOT A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE PLANET CARE ABOUT MTSU FOOTBALL? I had to do a search for "blue raiders" just to find out what school you were poorly representing.

[andy7171]

If you can't move up, don't bash those that can. It's obvious that you people are full of jealousy. NO ONE ON THE PLANET CARES ABOUT 1AA FOOTBALL OUTSIDE OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD. That's not smack talk, it's just a fact...
No one here is disputing this with you. I think everyone here recognises this fact, as sad a fact that it is. However, no one here is complaining or acting jealous about their favoroite school not moving up. If anything the majority of people here defend their schools decision to stay FCS.

What is sad is that you come in here an poke fun of the FCS being beneath your school. What's wrong? Traveling to USC or OU and having your ass handed to you not as great as you make it out to be?

From your own assessment of the FBS/FCS situtation, you are the equivalent of a kid in HS that gets his milk money taken from him every day, going back to his middle school and beating the 7th graders up.

Shove off.

[henfan]

If it's not for you and we are doing it, then don't be concerned about the fact that we are doing it.


Don't mistake a mention of MTSU in response to your off-the-mark posts as signs of concern. MTSU FB is typically not a subject that most sports fans outside of Murfreesboro ever think about. What's it say about the state of MTSU that they are regularly outdrawn by FCS schools about whom you suggest nobody cares?xsmhx xwhistlex

[Col Hogan]

No one here is disputing this with you. I think everyone here recognises this fact, as sad a fact that it is. However, no one here is complaining or acting jealous about their favoroite school not moving up. If anything the majority of people here defend their schools decision to stay FCS.

What is sad is that you come in here an poke fun of the FCS being beneath your school. What's wrong? Traveling to USC or OU and having your ass handed to you not as great as you make it out to be?

From your own assessment of the FBS/FCS situtation, you are the equivalent of a kid in HS that gets his milk money taken from him every day, going back to his middle school and beating the 7th graders up.

Shove off.

Now that's 5573

xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[Col Hogan]

Quick check of the Massey rankings at the end of last season...

#44 - App State
#53 - NDSU
#54 - UMass
#63 - Montana
#64 - YSU
#80 - MTSU

So, when is MTSU moving up?

[andy7171]

Hold up, MTSU isn't Montana State? :D

[henfan]

From the "Nobody Cares about FCS Football" Dept., the 2006 Avg. Attendance numbers:

Montana- 22,600 in 9 games
Delaware- 21,825 in 7 games
Appalachian State- 20,548 in 9 games
Jackson State- 20,314 in 5 games
MTSU- 19,347 in only 4 games

[PSUVikings]

From the "Nobody Cares about FCS Football" Dept., the 2006 Avg. Attendance numbers:

Montana- 22,600 in 9 games
Delaware- 21,825 in 7 games
Appalachian State- 20,548 in 9 games
Jackson State- 20,314 in 5 games
MTSU- 19,347 in only 4 games

Thats pretty good for our level, but at the FBS level thats the bare minimum requirement.

[blueraiderfn]

Thats pretty good for our level, but at the FBS level thats the bare minimum requirement.


Yeah, and what kind of ooc games did you play? What kind of funding do you have? What 1A bowl games are you eligible for? The only people watching you games are the people at the games. You guys are in denial. It's fine if you want to stay at your level, but don't act as though you could hang with us because you know you can't. Troy, ASU, ULL and MT would run you guys.

[Mountaineer]

Troy, ASU, ULL and MT would run you guys.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7638/lebowskisb3.jpg

[Col Hogan]

Yeah, and what kind of ooc games did you play? What kind of funding do you have? What 1A bowl games are you eligible for? The only people watching you games are the people at the games. You guys are in denial. It's fine if you want to stay at your level, but don't act as though you could hang with us because you know you can't. Troy, ASU, ULL and MT would run you guys.

Do you post just to see your words in writing?...Or do you actually read what's on this board?

CAA announces TV Package

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26936

In addition, UMass has an ESPN game when we play Boston College...So over half our games are on TV

I know others will speak up for their teams/conferences, but you are so full of what makes the grass grow green, it isn't funny!!!! xnonono2x xnonono2x

[Col Hogan]

Yeah, and what kind of ooc games did you play? What kind of funding do you have? What 1A bowl games are you eligible for? The only people watching you games are the people at the games. You guys are in denial. It's fine if you want to stay at your level, but don't act as though you could hang with us because you know you can't. Troy, ASU, ULL and MT would run you guys.

Knew I forgot something...

What National Championship are you eligible for?

I believe the answer to that question is NONE!

[PurpleNights]

We have 5 on TV this year.

[henfan]

What kind of funding do you have?

Can't speak for every other FCS school, but Delaware's revenues for football ($5.4M) and all of its sports ($16.5M) is greater than MTSU's ($4.8M & $15.3M respectively).

We'll have 7 games televised in 2007 (i.e.- twice as many as MTSU.) If we're fortunate enough to make it to Chattanooga, we'll have an additional 4 games on the sparkley box.

Say, you're really making a compelling argument for Sun Belch FB, son.xlolx

[blueraiderfn]

Do you post just to see your words in writing?...Or do you actually read what's on this board?

CAA announces TV Package

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26936

In addition, UMass has an ESPN game when we play Boston College...So over half our games are on TV

I know others will speak up for their teams/conferences, but you are so full of what makes the grass grow green, it isn't funny!!!! xnonono2x xnonono2x

And STILL: NOBODY is watching those games...You have what, ONE game on ESPN? We have SIXTEEN. Even if you are on TV, no one is watching because of WHO YOU PLAY and I hate to tell you, but IN CONFERENCE games that MT and Troy play have higher ratings than ANY game you guys play. That's not even going into the games we play against the SEC, ACC, MAC, WAC, CONF USA, BIG TWELVE etc.

Composite Sunbelt Schedule:

Football - 2007 Composite Schedule
Season

Schedule

Date Home Team Score Away Team Score Location Time (CST) Media Recap

Thu, Aug 30 Louisiana-Monroe Tulsa Monroe, La. 6 p.m. ESPN 2

Sat, Sep 01 Penn State Florida International University Park, Pa. 11 a.m. Big Ten Network

* Sat, Sep 01 Florida Atlantic Middle Tennessee Boca Raton, Fla. 3 p.m.
Sat, Sep 01 Arkansas Troy Fayetteville, Ark. 6 p.m.
Sat, Sep 01 Oklahoma North Texas Norman, Okla. 6 p.m. FSN

Sat, Sep 01 South Carolina Louisiana-Lafayette Columbia, S.C. TBA CSS

Sat, Sep 01 Texas Arkansas State Austin, Texas TBA
Thu, Sep 06 Louisville Middle Tennessee Louisville, Ky. 6 p.m. ESPN 2

Sat, Sep 08 Clemson Louisiana-Monroe Clemson, S.C. 1 p.m. CSS

Sat, Sep 08 Florida Troy Gainesville, Fla. 5 p.m.
Sat, Sep 08 Arkansas State Memphis Jonesboro, Ark. 6 p.m.

Sat, Sep 08 Oklahoma State Florida Atlantic Stillwater, Okla. 6:05 p.m.

Sat, Sep 08 Florida International Maryland Boca Raton, Fla. 6 p.m. ESPN 360

Sat, Sep 08 Louisiana-Lafayette Ohio Lafayette, La. 6 p.m.

Sat, Sep 08 Southern Methodist North Texas Dallas, Texas 7 p.m.

Fri, Sep 14 Troy Oklahoma State Troy, Ala. 7 p.m. ESPN 2

Sat, Sep 15 Florida Atlantic Minnesota Miami, Fla. (Dolphins Stadium) 12 p.m. ESPN 360

Sat, Sep 15 Miami FL Florida International Miami, Fla. 2:30 p.m. ESPNU

Sat, Sep 15 Louisiana-Lafayette McNeese State Lafayette, La. 6 p.m.

Sat, Sep 15 Texas A&M Louisiana-Monroe College Station, Texas 6 p.m.

Sat, Sep 15 Arkansas State Southern Methodist Jonesboro, Ark. 6 p.m.

Sat, Sep 15 LSU Middle Tennessee Baton Rouge, La. 7 p.m. CSTV

* Thu, Sep 20 Middle Tennessee Western Kentucky Murfreesboro,Tenn. 6 p.m. ESPN+

Sat, Sep 22 Kansas Florida International Lawrence, Kan. 6 p.m.

* Sat, Sep 22 Troy Louisiana-Lafayette Troy, Ala. 6 p.m.

* Sat, Sep 22 North Texas Florida Atlantic Denton, Texas 6 p.m.

Sat, Sep 22 Tennessee Arkansas State Knoxville, Tenn. TBA CSS

Sat, Sep 29 Kentucky Florida Atlantic Lexington, Ky. 1 p.m.

* Sat, Sep 29 Troy Louisiana-Monroe Troy, Ala. 6 p.m. CSS

Sat, Sep 29 Central Fla. Louisiana-Lafayette Orlando, Fla. 6 p.m.

* Sat, Sep 29 Middle Tennessee Florida International Murfressboro, Tenn. 6 p.m.

Sat, Sep 29 Arkansas North Texas Fayettville, Ark. 6 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 06 Florida Atlantic South Florida (USF) Boca Raton, Fla. 4 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 06 Louisiana-Lafayette North Texas Lafayette, La. 6 p.m. ESPN+

* Sat, Oct 06 Louisiana-Monroe Arkansas State Monroe, La. 6 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 06 Florida International Troy Miami, Fla. 6 p.m.

Sat, Oct 06 Middle Tennessee Virginia Murfreesboro, Tenn. TBA CSS

* Sat, Oct 13 Arkansas State Louisiana-Lafayette Jonesboro, Ark. 6 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 13 North Texas Louisiana-Monroe Denton, Texas 6 p.m. ESPN+

Sat, Oct 13 Memphis Middle Tennessee Memphis, Tenn. 7 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 20 Troy North Texas Troy, Ala. 2:30 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 20 Louisiana-Lafayette Florida Atlantic Lafayette, La. 6 p.m. ESPN+

* Sat, Oct 20 Louisiana-Monroe Florida International Monroe, La. 6 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 20 Middle Tennessee Arkansas State Murfreesboro, Tenn. TBA

Sat, Oct 27 Arkansas Florida International Fayettville, Ark. 2 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 27 Florida Atlantic Louisiana-Monroe Boca Raton, Fla. 3 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 27 North Texas Middle Tennessee Denton, Texas 6 p.m.

* Sat, Oct 27 Arkansas State Troy Jonesboro, Ark. 6 p.m. ESPN+

Sat, Nov 03 Georgia Troy Athens, Ga. 12 p.m. CSS

* Sat, Nov 03 Arkansas State Florida International Jonesboro, Ark. 2 p.m. ESPN+

* Sat, Nov 03 Louisiana-Monroe Middle Tennessee Monroe, La. 6 p.m.

Sat, Nov 03 Tennessee Louisiana-Lafayette Knoxville, Tenn. TBA CSS

* Sat, Nov 10 Florida Atlantic Arkansas State Boca Raton, Fla. 3 p.m.

Sat, Nov 10 North Texas Navy Denton, Texas 3 p.m.
Sat, Nov 10 Louisiana-Monroe Grambling Monroe, La. 4 p.m.

* Sat, Nov 10 Western Kentucky Troy Bowling Green, Ky. 4 p.m.

* Sat, Nov 10 Middle Tennessee Louisiana-Lafayette Murfreesboro, Tenn. TBA

* Thu, Nov 15 Arkansas State North Texas Jonesboro, Ark. 6 p.m. ESPN+

* Sat, Nov 17 Florida International Louisiana-Lafayette Miami, Fla. 6 p.m.

Sat, Nov 17 Florida Florida Atlantic Gainesville, Fla. TBA

Sat, Nov 17 Alabama Louisiana-Monroe Tuscaloosa, Ala. TBA CSS

* Tue, Nov 20 Troy Middle Tennessee Troy, Ala. 6 p.m. ESPN2

Sat, Nov 24 Southern Miss. Arkansas State Hattiesburg, Miss. 2 p.m.

* Sat, Nov 24 North Texas Western Kentucky Denton, Texas 3 p.m.

* Sat, Nov 24 Louisiana-Lafayette Louisiana-Monroe Lafayette, La. 6 p.m.

* Sat, Nov 24 Florida International Florida Atlantic Miami, Fla. 6 p.m. ESPN+

* Sat, Dec 01 Troy Florida Atlantic Troy, Ala. 1 p.m. CSS

* Sat, Dec 01 Florida International North Texas Miami, Fla. 6 p.m.

curve New Orleans Bowl

Fri, Dec 21 TBA TBA New Orleans, La. 7 p.m. ESPN2

* Conference Games

AND we play several games on Comcast Sports South (CSS) that are seen throughout the entire Southeastern US, from Miami to Nashville. There is nothing wrong with being a 1AA fan, but when you start TRYING to act as though you are on the same level as the Sunbelt, it is laughable.

[blueraiderfn]

We have 5 on TV this year.

Guys, I'm talking REGIONAL TV or ESPN. Local TV doesn't count...

[Col Hogan]

Guys, I'm talking REGIONAL TV or ESPN. Local TV doesn't count...

Did you read the post...hell no!!!!

Go Back And Read The Post and the link, you #&#%!

CAA has over 30 REGIONAL GAMES PLUS MORE ON ESPN!!!!!!!

[blueraiderfn]

Can't speak for every other FCS school, but Delaware's revenues for football ($5.4M) and all of its sports ($16.5M) is greater than MTSU's ($4.8M & $15.3M respectively).

We'll have 7 games televised in 2007 (i.e.- twice as many as MTSU.) If we're fortunate enough to make it to Chattanooga, we'll have an additional 4 games on the sparkley box.

Say, you're really making a compelling argument for Sun Belch FB, son.xlolx

Wow, you found ONE team in ALL of 1AA that has a bit more in revenue (don't know about donations) than we do. Even if you found 10, it still proves that the BOTTOM of 1A A) has about as much or more funding than the TOP of 1AA and B) than the rest of 1AA is far behind. Yeah...I wish we were back in 1AA...

[blueraiderfn]

Did you read the post...hell no!!!!

Go Back And Read The Post and the link, you #&#%!

CAA has over 30 REGIONAL GAMES PLUS MORE ON ESPN!!!!!!!

How many on ESPN?

[Col Hogan]

One thing really ticks me off, and it's lazy, dumb people who can't read posts...No one here...just an observation xrolleyesx :p


5575

[blueraiderfn]

Did you read the post...hell no!!!!

Go Back And Read The Post and the link, you #&#%!

CAA has over 30 REGIONAL GAMES PLUS MORE ON ESPN!!!!!!!

What are those OOC opponents?

[Cocky]

And STILL: NOBODY is watching those games...You have what, ONE game on ESPN? We have SIXTEEN. Even if you are on TV, no one is watching because of WHO YOU PLAY and I hate to tell you, but IN CONFERENCE games that MT and Troy play have higher ratings than ANY game you guys play.

Have you every seen the ratings for the San Jose bowl? I believe if you look at the ratings of SunBelt quality teams playing each other and FCS teams playing each other the ratings will be close. The SunBelt team should have a some upgrade from the gambling element, which FCS doesn't get. Either the SunBelt or FCS team would get a big boost from a "Big Name" school (eg if App State and Michigan were on TV it would out rate MTSU v Troy).

I saw Troy play UAB last year, that team could not be App State, UNI, or even win the OVC championship. Last year's SunBelt was one of the weaker year at the top it has ever had.

I can't say I'm envious of you because my team is looking at moving to FBS also. I do realize the quality of play is about the same between the lower level FBS and the top level FCS. From top to bottom the SunBelt is stronger than any FCS conference, but the top 2 or 3 minimum from the better FCS conference could contend for the SunBelt title most years.

[blueraiderfn]

One thing really ticks me off, and it's lazy, dumb people who can't read posts...No one here...just an observation xrolleyesx :p


5575

So...ALL of those are REGIONAL games...As in: They are shown in the entire North East? Even the WABI games? I noticed a LACK of ESPN games.

[Col Hogan]

How many on ESPN?


Guys, I'm talking REGIONAL TV or ESPN. Local TV doesn't count...

Make up your mind...are you talking Regional and ESPN, Regional or ESPN, or just ESPN...

[89Hen]

Composite Sunbelt Schedule:


There is nothing wrong with being a 1AA fan, but when you start TRYING to act as though you are on the same level as the Sunbelt, it is laughable.
The only thing laughable is you BOLDING the SunBelt's opponents that will throttle you, like that's somehow impressive. xlolx xlolx xlolx

[blueraiderfn]

Have you every seen the ratings for the San Jose bowl? I believe if you look at the ratings of SunBelt quality teams playing each other and FCS teams playing each other the ratings will be close. The SunBelt team should have a some upgrade from the gambling element, which FCS doesn't get. Either the SunBelt or FCS team would get a big boost from a "Big Name" school (eg if App State and Michigan were on TV it would out rate MTSU v Troy).

I saw Troy play UAB last year, that team could not be App State, UNI, or even win the OVC championship. Last year's SunBelt was one of the weaker year at the top it has ever had.

I can't say I'm envious of you because my team is looking at moving to FBS also. I do realize the quality of play is about the same between the lower level FBS and the top level FCS. From top to bottom the SunBelt is stronger than any FCS conference, but the top 2 or 3 minimum from the better FCS conference could contend for the SunBelt title most years.


You do realize that we went 4-3 vs Conf USA last year with a win over their conference champs? Just because Troy has a history of not being able to hand UAB doesn't mean they are a weak team. Did you notice the RICE vs Troy score for the New Orleans Bowl? Seems you forgot to mention that one.

[Col Hogan]

One thing really ticks me off, and it's lazy, dumb people who can't read posts...No one here...just an observation xrolleyesx :p


5575

And this does not include the OOC game UMass has with Boston College that is on one of the ESPN networks...

[blueraiderfn]

Make up your mind...are you talking Regional and ESPN, Regional or ESPN, or just ESPN...

Jesus, if it's on ESPN (of ANY kind) it's not LOCAL...

[blueraiderfn]

The only thing laughable is you BOLDING the SunBelt's opponents that will throttle you, like that's somehow impressive. xlolx xlolx xlolx

Tell that to 4 of our CONF USA opponents last year, or Vanderbilt or #17 Missourri, or Marshal or La Tech or UConn etc etc etc...

[blueraiderfn]

And this does not include the OOC game UMass has with Boston College that is on one of the ESPN networks...

That's my point...You have ONE game on ESPN. You guys don't have room to discuss any 1A conference in a negative way...It's laughable. It's fine if you want to sing your teams/conference's praises, but talking smack about the Sunbelt is a joke. It would be like us talking smack about the SEC, or at least the MWC.

[PurpleNights]

2007 Southern Conference Football TV Schedule by Day



Thursday, August 30

*Carson-Newman at Chattanooga, 7:00 p.m. (CSS)



Saturday, September 1

Appalachian State at Michigan, 12:00 p.m. (BTN)

&Presbyterian at Furman, 7:00 p.m. (CSS)



Saturday, September 8

@Chattanooga at Jacksonville State, 3:30 p.m. (CSS)



Saturday, September 15

The Citadel at Wisconsin, 12:00 p.m. (BTN)

Wofford at North Carolina State, 6:00 p.m. (ESPN360)

^Georgia Southern at Coastal Carolina, 7:00 p.m. (SPSO)



Saturday, September 22

#Appalachian State at Wofford, 3:00 p.m. (SPSO)

%Chattanooga at Georgia Southern, 7:00 p.m. (CSS)



Saturday, September 29

%Western Carolina at Georgia Southern, 3:30 p.m. (CSS)



Saturday, October 6

#Wofford at The Citadel, 2:00 p.m. (SPSO)



Saturday, October 13

#Georgia Southern at Elon, 3:00 p.m. (SPSO)



October 20

Furman at Chattanooga, 12:00 p.m.



Thursday, October 25

Wofford at Western Carolina, 7:30 p.m. (ESPNU)



Saturday, October 27

%The Citadel at Georgia Southern, 12:00 p.m. (CSS)

#Appalachian State at Furman, 3:00 p.m. (SPSO)



Saturday, November 10

#Furman at Georgia Southern, 3:30 p.m. (SPSO)



Saturday, November 17

The Citadel at VMI, 12:00 pm (CSTV)

&Furman at Western Carolina, 12:00 pm (CSS)

#Chattanooga at Appalachian State, 3:30 p.m. (SPSO)



http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=1137702

[henfan]

Wow, you found ONE team in ALL of 1AA that has a bit more in revenue (don't know about donations) than we do. Even if you found 10, it still proves that the BOTTOM of 1A A) has about as much or more funding than the TOP of 1AA and B) than the rest of 1AA is far behind. Yeah...I wish we were back in 1AA...

I didn't really have to look too hard since it's my own team. You can do the rest of the math yourself to locate the other FCS schools who are in better financial shape than MTSU. I'll agree though that the bottom of the FCS is about the same as the top of the FBS competitively and financially, which is what we've been saying all along. There's usually little compelling reason for reclassification.

You don't have to move to the FBS to operate a successful FB program. You can operate a program for less money, make more and garner the same amount of national attention right here in the FCS. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.

[89Hen]

Tell that to 4 of our CONF USA opponents last year, or Vanderbilt or #17 Missourri, or Marshal or La Tech or UConn etc etc etc...
Please do come back in December and let us know how those games turned out. xthumbsupx xlolx


BTW, did you just brag about wins over LaTech and UConn? xlolx xlolx xlolx

BTW2, who are the etc, etc, etc... teams? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Cocky]

You do realize that we went 4-3 vs Conf USA last year with a win over their conference champs? Just because Troy has a history of not being able to hand UAB doesn't mean they are a weak team. Did you notice the RICE vs Troy score for the New Orleans Bowl? Seems you forgot to mention that one.


Yes, I realize. The team I saw was not very good for the FBS level. Did you see App State last year or UNI? These were quality football teams. If you want to talk up the SunBelt talk baseball.

[Col Hogan]

Jesus, if it's on ESPN (of ANY kind) it's not LOCAL...

Then our entire CAA package, (except ONE GAME) is on ESPN or Regional TV...36 games for the CAA, plus other OOC games outside the package...

We are not FBS...no one is trying to say we are...but your attempts to minimize what has been accomplished is downright insulting, and stupid...

I can only speak for the CAA...but some people have put in lots of hard work to get our brand of football lots of exposure...

Please, don't fool yourself either...just like FCS, your level of football, just because it's on a regional or national network, does not get good rating...

If people have a choice of watching OSU/Michigan/Auburn/FSU or MTSU, only those affiliated with MTSU tune in...xcoffeex

[89Hen]

Intersting from last year...

Maryland 24 - MTSU 10 (Maryland 27 - W&M 14 for comparison)
Oklahoma 59 - MTSU 0
Louisville 44 - MTSU 17
South Carolina 52 - MTSU 7 (South Carolina 27 - Wofford 20 for comparison)

La-L 2-2 vs I-A (beat Houston and 1-11 EMU)
Ark St 2-3 vs I-A (beat Army and 2-10 Memphis)
UNT 1-4 vs I-A (beat SMU)
Troy 0-4 vs I-A
FAU 0-4 vs I-A
La-M 0-4 vs I-A
FIU 0-4 vs I-A

Where are those games you were bragging about??? xconfusedx xsmhx xlolx

[RaiderInTheZone]

Dude, if you're going to come over here telling us all how great Sun Belch football is compared with FCS, you'd better come with a sense of humor. Obviously I was using hyperbole to make a joke about MTSU's desparate attempt to get above the 15K attendance threshold. xsmhx

Fortunately for you guys, the FBS hangers-on were able to wield enough opposition to gut the already paltry FBS minimum attendance requirements. (It's odd how the attendance numbers jumped above 15K for several teams the year after self-auditing was permitted, huh?;) )

If hemmoraging money, losing games and playing to half-filled stadiums is MTSU's idea of greeeeat football, that's their choice. Just don't attempt to convince us it's necessarily a better option than FCS. Too often that's not the case.


Obviously you know nothing about Middle Tennessee or Sun Belt football or you would not have made this comment. I doubt you've ever seen a Middle Tennessee football game since we moved to 1-A. Our stadium is rarely just "half-filled these days as evidenced by our 22,000+ attendance average last year in a stadium that seats 30,000 (larger than any 1-AA stadium). You're trying to validate 1-AA's worth by making false statements about schools you obviously know nothing about except they play 1-A football in the Sun Belt. Explain to me why you are so obsessed with the league? You constantly talk about it all the time? Why can't you concentrate more on the Colonial League and 1-AA? Why do you have to continue to obsess over schools that you SHOULD have no interest in?

[blueraiderfn]

Then our entire CAA package, (except ONE GAME) is on ESPN or Regional TV...36 games for the CAA, plus other OOC games outside the package...

We are not FBS...no one is trying to say we are...but your attempts to minimize what has been accomplished is downright insulting, and stupid...

I can only speak for the CAA...but some people have put in lots of hard work to get our brand of football lots of exposure...

Please, don't fool yourself either...just like FCS, your level of football, just because it's on a regional or national network, does not get good rating...

If people have a choice of watching OSU/Michigan/Auburn/FSU or MTSU, only those affiliated with MTSU tune in...xcoffeex

How many are on ESPN...also, those affiliated with our OOC opponents tune in as well and you can't tune in if you aren't on NATIONAL TV e.g, ESPN...

[blueraiderfn]

Intersting from last year...

Maryland 24 - MTSU 10 (Maryland 27 - W&M 14 for comparison)
Oklahoma 59 - MTSU 0
Louisville 44 - MTSU 17
South Carolina 52 - MTSU 7 (South Carolina 27 - Wofford 20 for comparison)

La-L 2-2 vs I-A (beat Houston and 1-11 EMU)
Ark St 2-3 vs I-A (beat Army and 2-10 Memphis)
UNT 1-4 vs I-A (beat SMU)
Troy 0-4 vs I-A
FAU 0-4 vs I-A
La-M 0-4 vs I-A
FIU 0-4 vs I-A

Where are those games you were bragging about??? xconfusedx xsmhx xlolx

How many 1A games did your conference win?

[Col Hogan]

How many are on ESPN...also, those affiliated with our OOC opponents tune in as well and you can't tune in if you aren't on NATIONAL TV e.g, ESPN...

I posted it...can't you read?xcoffeex

[89Hen]

as evidenced by our 22,000+ attendance average last year in a stadium that seats 30,000 (larger than any 1-AA stadium). You're trying to validate 1-AA's worth by making false statements
Uhhh, you may want to check the above.


92. Middle Tennessee State - 19,347


Yale Bowl - 64,269 capacity
Harvard Stadiu - 30,898 capacity

[blueraiderfn]

Intersting from last year...

Maryland 24 - MTSU 10 (Maryland 27 - W&M 14 for comparison)
Oklahoma 59 - MTSU 0
Louisville 44 - MTSU 17
South Carolina 52 - MTSU 7 (South Carolina 27 - Wofford 20 for comparison)


Where are those games you were bragging about??? xconfusedx xsmhx xlolx

You do realize we put in our second string (1AA level) players once it's obvious we are going to lose? We save the good guys for conference games.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Quick check of the Massey rankings at the end of last season...

#44 - App State
#53 - NDSU
#54 - UMass
#63 - Montana
#64 - YSU
#80 - MTSU

So, when is MTSU moving up?

Those ratings are flawed just like the Sagarins. They put more weight into wins and losses and not enough into strength of schedule. Season long schedules against lowly 1-AA teams will not impress anyone except these flawed polls. Anybody can finish with an 11-0 regular season record when you have teams like The Citadel, Wofford, and Elon in your league and not to mention the occassional home games against Division II and III teams. Try playing a complete 12-game schedule against 1-A teams, and then call me back with the Massey Ratings then.

[blueraiderfn]

Uhhh, you may want to check the above.

Please link those stats.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Uhhh, you may want to check the above.


Help me out then. What 1-AA school has a stadium that sits more than 30,000 people? Because I don't know of one.

[Cocky]

You do realize we put in our second string (1AA level) players once it's obvious we are going to lose? We save the good guys for conference games.

Now, I like that one!!

[Mountaineer]

Help me out then. What 1-AA school has a stadium that sits more than 30,000 people? Because I don't know of one.

Yale, Harvard, Princeton..just off the top of my head. xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

also, those affiliated with our OOC opponents tune in as well
Unfortunately for your teams.

[BearsCountry]

Help me out then. What 1-AA school has a stadium that sits more than 30,000 people? Because I don't know of one.

Yale Bowl, LP Field, Jackson Stadium, Franklin Field

[89Hen]

You do realize we put in our second string (1AA level) players once it's obvious we are going to lose?
So they're starting?

[89Hen]

Please link those stats.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2007/Internet/attendance/IA_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

[RaiderInTheZone]

Can't speak for every other FCS school, but Delaware's revenues for football ($5.4M) and all of its sports ($16.5M) is greater than MTSU's ($4.8M & $15.3M respectively).

We'll have 7 games televised in 2007 (i.e.- twice as many as MTSU.) If we're fortunate enough to make it to Chattanooga, we'll have an additional 4 games on the sparkley box.

Say, you're really making a compelling argument for Sun Belch FB, son.xlolx

I am impressed with this particular guy's level of obsession with our league. I'm curious to know how many of Delaware's REGULAR SEASON games will be televised NATIONALLY--that is a game televised on ESPN, ESPN2, CBS, ABC, NBC, or Fox (Not Fox Sports Net) as opposed to REGIONAL television networks such as ESPNU, ESPN+, CSS, CSTV, or Fox Sports Net. Care to answer that one for me? Middle Tennessee has five REGULAR SEASON games on television and two of them are on ESPN2.

[89Hen]

Middle Tennessee has five REGULAR SEASON games on television and two of them are on ESPN2.
Again, too bad for your team. Nothing worse than getting whalloped on national TV.

[RaiderInTheZone]

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2007/Internet/attendance/IA_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

I didn't realize that the NCAA can be wrong. We had five home games last year, not four.

[blueraiderfn]

I posted it...can't you read?xcoffeex

I'll answer for you, since you are ashamed to admit it:

3...and NONE of them are on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU or ESPN+

[RaiderInTheZone]

Again, too bad for your team. Nothing worse than getting whalloped on national TV.

Middle Tennessee @ Troy will be televised on ESPN2. You assume all of our nationally televised games are against Power Six schools? That shows your lack of knowledge of the Sun Belt.

[blueraiderfn]

I didn't realize that the NCAA can be wrong. We had five home games last year, not four.

Yeah, they don't have one of our games averaged in.

[89Hen]

I didn't realize that the NCAA can be wrong. We had five home games last year, not four.

Actually if you could follow along they count non-home home games at the end...

Middle Tennessee State vs Louisville in Nashville - 32,797 in a 67,000 seat stadium... by my count that's less than half full.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Intersting from last year...

Maryland 24 - MTSU 10 (Maryland 27 - W&M 14 for comparison)
Oklahoma 59 - MTSU 0
Louisville 44 - MTSU 17
South Carolina 52 - MTSU 7 (South Carolina 27 - Wofford 20 for comparison)

La-L 2-2 vs I-A (beat Houston and 1-11 EMU)
Ark St 2-3 vs I-A (beat Army and 2-10 Memphis)
UNT 1-4 vs I-A (beat SMU)
Troy 0-4 vs I-A
FAU 0-4 vs I-A
La-M 0-4 vs I-A
FIU 0-4 vs I-A

Where are those games you were bragging about??? xconfusedx xsmhx xlolx


Comparing scores of like opponents. Another classic maneuver by fans of 1-AA schools to try to compare their schools to 1-A teams. Why do you even care about the Sun Belt so much? There is now a 15 page thread about the Sun Belt on a 1-AA messageboard but no such lengthy threads about the Southland, the Colonial, the Southern, Gateway, Big Sky, or other 1-AA leagues which is where your concentration should be? Why so much obsession with the Sun Belt?

[89Hen]

Middle Tennessee @ Troy will be televised on ESPN2. You assume all of our nationally televised games are against Power Six schools? That shows your lack of knowledge of the Sun Belt.
And your and your comrade's continued erroneous figures show your lack of knowledge of all of Division I.

[89Hen]

Comparing scores of like opponents. Another classic maneuver by fans of 1-AA schools to try to compare their schools to 1-A teams. Why do you even care about the Sun Belt so much? There is now a 15 page thread about the Sun Belt on a 1-AA messageboard but no such lengthy threads about the Southland, the Colonial, the Southern, Gateway, Big Sky, or other 1-AA leagues which is where your concentration should be? Why so much obsession with the Sun Belt?

xconfusedx Wow. That's about all I can say. xsmhx

[Saint3333]

I didn't realize that the NCAA can be wrong. We had five home games last year, not four.

You are counting your game against Lousville at a neutral site as a home game (Nashville I believe).

I'd like the FCS's chances if we put the top four Sun Belt teams against ASU, UMass, Montana, and NDSU, but if any FCS team had to play a complete FBS schedule the week to week wear and tear with 22 less scholarships would show.xtwocentsx

I don't think a lot is going to be accomplished here; MTSU will continue to believe the Sun Belt is a step up and the FCS faithful will continue to believe this is the place to be. Both have advantages, it just depends on what your goals are.xpeacex

[blueraiderfn]

You are counting your game against Lousville at a neutral site as a home game (Nashville I believe).

I'd like the FCS's chances if we put the top four Sun Belt teams against ASU, UMass, Montana, and NDSU, but if any FCS team had to play a complete FBS schedule the week to week wear and tear with 22 less scholarships would show.xtwocentsx

I don't think a lot is going to be accomplished here; MTSU will continue to believe the Sun Belt is a step up and the FCS faithful will continue to believe this is the place to be. Both have advantages, it just depends on what your goals are.xpeacex

Fair enough, but I do wish you guys wouldn't try and lift yourselves up by bashing other people. It's not very mature. For what it's worth, I am sort of a Blue Hen's fan myself, I just don't get a chance to see any of their games.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Actually if you could follow along they count non-home home games at the end...

Middle Tennessee State vs Louisville in Nashville - 32,797 in a 67,000 seat stadium... by my count that's less than half full.

Yes, but if that game was in Murfreesboro where it should have been, our stadium would've been filled to capacity. Don't you think? The point I'm making is that we average over the 15,000 needed to stay 1-A and half the size of OUR stadium. I don't care what opinions you have of our school. We will do things our way, and Delaware can do things their way. I do recall watching our nationally ranked women's basketball team whallop Old Dominion (the crown jewel of the Colonial winner of 16 or 17 straight CAA tournament titles). I don't think that would've happened if we were still in the Ohio Valley Conference.

My point is this. We moved to the Sun Belt to improve ALL of our sports--ALL OF THEM! I'm not concerned about the Southland or Southern Conferences. Those leagues are on the decline. The SoCon's worst move was inviting Samford. That will only drive Appalachian, UTC, and Georgia Southern further away from that league. My main deal is wanting Middle Tennessee to make steps FORWARD. The Sun Belt is a step forward for us as opposed to being in the Ohio Valley Conference. Agree or disagree. Would you rather be in the CAA or in the OVC?

[blueraiderfn]

Actually if you could follow along they count non-home home games at the end...

Middle Tennessee State vs Louisville in Nashville - 32,797 in a 67,000 seat stadium... by my count that's less than half full.

Guy, it's still 33,000 people...Not bad for a fairly new 1A program.

[RaiderInTheZone]

You are counting your game against Lousville at a neutral site as a home game (Nashville I believe).

I'd like the FCS's chances if we put the top four Sun Belt teams against ASU, UMass, Montana, and NDSU, but if any FCS team had to play a complete FBS schedule the week to week wear and tear with 22 less scholarships would show.xtwocentsx

I don't think a lot is going to be accomplished here; MTSU will continue to believe the Sun Belt is a step up and the FCS faithful will continue to believe this is the place to be. Both have advantages, it just depends on what your goals are.xpeacex

Excellent comment and my sentiments exactly. We do what is best for our own schools.

[Cocky]

Help me out then. What 1-AA school has a stadium that sits more than 30,000 people? Because I don't know of one.

The one down the road from you plays in one that holds about 70,000.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Yale Bowl, LP Field, Jackson Stadium, Franklin Field

LP Field. You are referring to the stadium Tennessee State uses? Why not Hale Stadium which is their true on-campus stadium? As for the others on your list, it is dually noted. Thanks for the information.

[89Hen]

Middle Tennessee @ Troy will be televised on ESPN2. You assume all of our nationally televised games are against Power Six schools? That shows your lack of knowledge of the Sun Belt.
BTW, I'd be willing to bet you a beer more people watch one of our CN8 games than MTSU vs Troy. I sure as heck know we'll have more people in attendance. xnodx

Troy draws well for conference games...
Arkansas State (6-5,4-2) vs. Troy (5-5,4-1) - Attendance: 20462
ULL Ragin' Cajuns (4-4,1-2) vs. Troy (4-4,3-0) - Attendance: 20111
North Texas (2-6,1-3) vs. Troy (3-4,2-0) - Attendance: 17795
Louisiana-Monroe (1-5,0-3) vs. Troy (2-4,1-0) - Attendance: 19415

BTW, interesting to note their largest attendance by FAR was for a I-AA...

Alabama State (0-1) vs. Troy (1-0) - Attendance: 26265

xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

[RaiderInTheZone]

The one down the road from you plays in one that holds about 70,000.

Tennessee State does not own that stadium. The city of Nashville does. Tennessee State's Hale Stadium barely seats 15,000 if that.

[89Hen]

Fair enough, but I do wish you guys wouldn't try and lift yourselves up by bashing other people.
Pot ----> Kettle

[Cocky]

BTW, I'd be willing to bet you a beer more people watch one of our CN8 games than MTSU vs Troy. I sure as heck know we'll have more people in attendance. xnodx

Troy draws well for conference games...
Arkansas State (6-5,4-2) vs. Troy (5-5,4-1) - Attendance: 20462
ULL Ragin' Cajuns (4-4,1-2) vs. Troy (4-4,3-0) - Attendance: 20111
North Texas (2-6,1-3) vs. Troy (3-4,2-0) - Attendance: 17795
Louisiana-Monroe (1-5,0-3) vs. Troy (2-4,1-0) - Attendance: 19415

BTW, interesting to note their largest attendance by FAR was for a I-AA...

Alabama State (0-1) vs. Troy (1-0) - Attendance: 26265

xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

Troy uses sold tickets not attendance at the games.

[Cocky]

Tennessee State does not own that stadium. The city of Nashville does. Tennessee State's Hale Stadium barely seats 15,000 if that.

TSU doesn't use Hale anymore. There is a movement to do some improvements to the stadium so it can return to action.

[89Hen]

My point is this. We moved to the Sun Belt to improve ALL of our sports--ALL OF THEM! I'm not concerned about the Southland or Southern Conferences. Those leagues are on the decline. The SoCon's worst move was inviting Samford. That will only drive Appalachian, UTC, and Georgia Southern further away from that league. My main deal is wanting Middle Tennessee to make steps FORWARD. The Sun Belt is a step forward for us as opposed to being in the Ohio Valley Conference. Agree or disagree. Would you rather be in the CAA or in the OVC?
Fair enough, but this discussion has been all about football. I agree with everything you said above, including being in the CAA.

[blueraiderfn]

Pot ----> Kettle

Oh no my friend...Go back and read this thread from the begining.

[89Hen]

Troy uses sold tickets not attendance at the games.
I was actually being facetious. :p

[RaiderInTheZone]

BTW, I'd be willing to bet you a beer more people watch one of our CN8 games than MTSU vs Troy. I sure as heck know we'll have more people in attendance. xnodx

Troy draws well for conference games...
Arkansas State (6-5,4-2) vs. Troy (5-5,4-1) - Attendance: 20462
ULL Ragin' Cajuns (4-4,1-2) vs. Troy (4-4,3-0) - Attendance: 20111
North Texas (2-6,1-3) vs. Troy (3-4,2-0) - Attendance: 17795
Louisiana-Monroe (1-5,0-3) vs. Troy (2-4,1-0) - Attendance: 19415

BTW, interesting to note their largest attendance by FAR was for a I-AA...

Alabama State (0-1) vs. Troy (1-0) - Attendance: 26265

xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

That is not surprising at all. Alabama State is the closest regionally of all schools on that list. I think Middle Tennessee vs Tennessee State would sell-out and draw more than any school we play. I'm sure we'll see them on the schedule in the near future.

[89Hen]

Oh no my friend...Go back and read this thread from the begining.
Yeah?....



Yeah, you guys should stay 1AA. The home games against the MAC, the Big East, the ACC...they get to be really boring. I won't even mention the away games against the SEC...Boooorrrriinnngggg. I would much rather play Slippery Rock. (please note "sarcasm")


Well, let's see: 3 wins against Vanderbilt (one with Cutler at QB and Two SEC wins under his belt before we broke his will), One win against Akron (with Charlie Frye at the helm), took Mizzou to overtime and lost by 1, beat La Tech by about 30, did the same to South Florida (that's MT), beat Marshall twice, beat #17 Missouri, beat Mississippi State, crushed Rice in the New Orleans Bowl last year (that's Troy), beat SMU, Hawaii, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Cincinatti, etc etc etc. I won't even go into the TV schedule and the fact that we are adding another bowl game..Sure it's just like the Gateway or SoConn.


Yeah, we were BARELY edged out by the MAC:

11 Mid-American 43.62
12 Sun Belt 43.23


Also:

17 AA Southern 36.84
16 AA Gateway 36.99


And how far were you guys from being "edged out?" More than a few points, I believe.


It's simple, kids: If it's not for you, then don't do it. If it's not for you and we are doing it, then don't be concerned about the fact that we are doing it. TRUST MT when I say that our athletics program has more money (all the way around) that it has ever had in the history of the university. Our donations are way up after last years bowl game. If you can't move up, don't bash those that can. It's obvious that you people are full of jealousy. NO ONE ON THE PLANET CARES ABOUT 1AA FOOTBALL OUTSIDE OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD. That's not smack talk, it's just a fact...


Yeah, and what kind of ooc games did you play? What kind of funding do you have? What 1A bowl games are you eligible for? The only people watching you games are the people at the games. You guys are in denial. It's fine if you want to stay at your level, but don't act as though you could hang with us because you know you can't. Troy, ASU, ULL and MT would run you guys.

Should I continue??

[89Hen]

I think that's it for me. Once we start arguing about who said what... this is a xdeadhorsex

You like the Sun Belt, we like I-AA.
Your attendance is similar to the top of I-AA.
Your performance against BCS teams is similar to I-AA.

So, basically we're the same, but different.

Good night, I need a beer. xpeacex xthumbsupx

BTW, I will actually be paying attention to MTSU this year as I am also a UVA fan through marriage.

[RaiderInTheZone]

BTW, I will actually be paying attention to MTSU this year as I am also a UVA fan through marriage.

Sweet, man. Did you know that we got that home game against Virginia with no return game? That's pretty good, I think. It takes a genious mind as an AD to pull that off. Massaro has only been on the job for 1 1/2 years now.

[blueraiderfn]

Yeah?....














Should I continue??

Yes, please include the rest of this thread lol. You KNOW you guys started talking smack first about the Sunbelt.

[AppMan]

That is small for the FBS level. Portland is more and we are in the FCS. But yeah there are worse. Washington State's home, Pullman, 24 K, in the the town. But yes Boise is small compared to most schools.

Blacksburg VA 39,573: Clemson SC 12,111: Auburn AL 51,906: Morgantown WV 26,809: State College PA 38,420: College Station TX 74,125:

Being able to play at the FBS level has nothing to do with the size of the city a school is located in.

[blueraiderfn]

I think that's it for me. Once we start arguing about who said what... this is a xdeadhorsex

You like the Sun Belt, we like I-AA.
Your attendance is similar to the top of I-AA.
Your performance against BCS teams is similar to I-AA.

So, basically we're the same, but different.

Good night, I need a beer. xpeacex xthumbsupx

BTW, I will actually be paying attention to MTSU this year as I am also a UVA fan through marriage.


Not really, but if it makes you feel better. You wouldn't have four wins against Conf USA, or SEC wins, or wins against ranked team or an athletic department that is overall on the same level as most of the Sunbelt etc. and you are comparing your TOP programs to us. 10 teams out of 150 and not all of those ten compare. There is a reason we moved to 1A: 1AA doesn't help our overall athletics like 1A. It doesn't bring as much exposure and it keep us from having the chance to a bowl game each year.

[TheValleyRaider]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/29/44051684_73d16244da.jpg?v=0

Wow, this got out of hand quickly...

[Col Hogan]

Those ratings are flawed just like the Sagarins. They put more weight into wins and losses and not enough into strength of schedule. Season long schedules against lowly 1-AA teams will not impress anyone except these flawed polls. Anybody can finish with an 11-0 regular season record when you have teams like The Citadel, Wofford, and Elon in your league and not to mention the occassional home games against Division II and III teams. Try playing a complete 12-game schedule against 1-A teams, and then call me back with the Massey Ratings then.

Wrong again, FCS Breath...

From the Massey Web Site

These ratings are based on win-loss outcomes relative to schedule difficulty.
Margin of victory is not used, and ratings don't reflect point differentials.
Early season ratings will fluctuate significantly until a sufficient number of games have been played.
Teams that are not connected via the schedule graph are rated as isolated groups.
These are the rankings used by the BCS.
The ranking using MOV is posted as a separate column.

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf

5577

[RaiderInTheZone]

Wrong again, FCS Breath...

From the Massey Web Site

These ratings are based on win-loss outcomes relative to schedule difficulty.
Margin of victory is not used, and ratings don't reflect point differentials.
Early season ratings will fluctuate significantly until a sufficient number of games have been played.
Teams that are not connected via the schedule graph are rated as isolated groups.
These are the rankings used by the BCS.
The ranking using MOV is posted as a separate column.

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf

5577

You need to take a very close look at those ratings and what teams are rated where. It's clear that SOS is not factored as much as wins and losses. Massey has Appalachian at 44th. He has Division II Grand Valley State positioned two spots over Appalachian. I suppose Division II football is much better than 1-AA, huh? And guess who's all the way down at #85 in those rankings? I'll give you a few hints. They finished 3-9; play in the ACC; were beaten by East Carolina, Southern Miss, and Akron; and won by 13 comfortable points over 2-time defending 1-AA National Champion Appalachian State. Guess who? It's NC State. If NC State could beat Appalachian which by the way was in a game they never trailed, then don't you think they deserve to be ranked higher? It's not like they padded the win total against the likes of Wofford, Elon, The Citadel, and Western Carolina. They played Florida State, Clemson, Virginia, Georgia Tech, and Wake Forest--teams that could and would beat anybody in 1-AA.

When I see how high they have Appalachian and how low they have NC State, I know without a shadow of a doubt that this ranking system is flawed. The teams ranked higher are not necessarily better than every team ranked below them as you guys are trying to suggest when you throw these polls out to try to say such and such 1-AA team is better than such and such 1-A team because they are ranked higher in this poll.

You understand what I'm saying? Massey and Sagarin can't accurately factor in SOS enough in their rankings. Anytime there is talks of polls and 1-A vs 1-AA debates, I never use those two polls or similar polls to validate my claims because they are inaccurate even in instances when the polls might work to my advantage. One season the Sun Belt was ranked higher than the MAC in the Sagarins. I don't think we were better than the MAC that year just because the Sagarins has us rated higher. The head-to-head matches was a more convincing argument to me there.

[Col Hogan]

You can spin the polls accuracy any way you want to...

You can make all the claims about FBS you want to...

People in this thread have presented question after question...you have done the samba around some...bobbed and weaved around others...

You have been proven wrong soooo many times...

Your only arguement that holds any water is $$$$$$$$$$

So, if $$$$$ is your motivating factor...You win...I give up...

I kinda like being able to COMPETE for a national championship...something real....

Don't get me wrong...I'd support UMass going FBS in a heart beat...if we had the right conference.....

The Subbelt...the MAC...not the right conference...

[Saint3333]

You need to take a very close look at those ratings and what teams are rated where. It's clear that SOS is not factored as much as wins and losses. Massey has Appalachian at 44th. He has Division II Grand Valley State positioned two spots over Appalachian. I suppose Division II football is much better than 1-AA, huh? And guess who's all the way down at #85 in those rankings? I'll give you a few hints. They finished 3-9; play in the ACC; were beaten by East Carolina, Southern Miss, and Akron; and won by 13 comfortable points over 2-time defending 1-AA National Champion Appalachian State. Guess who? It's NC State. If NC State could beat Appalachian which by the way was in a game they never trailed, then don't you think they deserve to be ranked higher? It's not like they padded the win total against the likes of Wofford, Elon, The Citadel, and Western Carolina. They played Florida State, Clemson, Virginia, Georgia Tech, and Wake Forest--teams that could and would beat anybody in 1-AA.

When I see how high they have Appalachian and how low they have NC State, I know without a shadow of a doubt that this ranking system is flawed. The teams ranked higher are not necessarily better than every team ranked below them as you guys are trying to suggest when you throw these polls out to try to say such and such 1-AA team is better than such and such 1-A team because they are ranked higher in this poll.

You understand what I'm saying? Massey and Sagarin can't accurately factor in SOS enough in their rankings. Anytime there is talks of polls and 1-A vs 1-AA debates, I never use those two polls or similar polls to validate my claims because they are inaccurate even in instances when the polls might work to my advantage. One season the Sun Belt was ranked higher than the MAC in the Sagarins. I don't think we were better than the MAC that year just because the Sagarins has us rated higher. The head-to-head matches was a more convincing argument to me there.

The teams played in early September, the sagarin ratings take into account the entire season. Some teams get better, some obviously don't. If you think ASU was the same team in November or December as the first week of September you lost some creditiblity with me. You are basing your stance on one game out of 2,500 played.

[GSUISBACK]

lol mtsu fans trolling yet another FCS board. Nice to see your still working that #1 women's basketball recruit into your posts. First the Gsu board now ags.

[89Hen]

Not really, but if it makes you feel better. You wouldn't have four wins against Conf USA, or SEC wins, or wins against ranked team or an athletic department that is overall on the same level as most of the Sunbelt etc. and you are comparing your TOP programs to us. 10 teams out of 150 and not all of those ten compare. There is a reason we moved to 1A: 1AA doesn't help our overall athletics like 1A. It doesn't bring as much exposure and it keep us from having the chance to a bowl game each year.
Maine over Miss St is an SEC win and Maine was a middle of the pack A10 team that year.

Tell me what wins over ranked teams you are talking about please.

[Sam Adams]

Massachusetts has a newly formed special Board of Trustees task force that is evaluating an upgrade.

The difference between elite FCS teams and mediocre FBS teams is simply not that great. We see examples of this fact every year. Last year for example, Massachusetts would have certainly beaten uconn and several other BE teams. (but the huskies have refused to play Massachusetts since the huskies were crushed 62-20 in '99).

[blueraiderfn]

Massachusetts has a newly formed special Board of Trustees task force that is evaluating an upgrade.

The difference between elite FCS teams and mediocre FBS teams is simply not that great. We see examples of this fact every year. Last year for example, Massachusetts would have certainly beaten uconn and several other BE teams. (but the huskies have refused to play Massachusetts since the huskies were crushed 62-20 in '99).

Yes, right now the main difference is schollies and exposure and overall athletic department ability. You have to remember, you are talking about a conference in which half of the schools have been 1A for less than a decade. I remember a lot of the same talk about Conf USA, the MAC, WAC etc until they had time to build their programs. Any 1AA school can get an occasional 1A win against almost anybody (what are your 1A wins BTW? Do you have any recently eg in the past 5 years?). The difference is: Eventually schollies, funding, quality of player etc are going to improve in the Sunbelt and yours won't. Just the fact that we have 16 ESPN games to your 3 is worth the switch to 1A, not to mention the fact that I don't even recognize the ESPN channels listed on your schedule (is that ESPN radio?) and the fact that we have 2 bowl tie ins in 2008. Nothing wrong with being 1AA, there is something wrong talking smack about a conference that doesn't ever mention your name or talk smack about you. It's common and petty. Also, you guys cherry pick your facts. You mention Troy vs UAB, but you fail to mention Troy spanking Rice and ULL beatng Houston or ASU beating Memphis. Spin it anyway you want, but most people don't want to watch Sunbelt football (unless are playing big name opponent or it's a bowl game) and they sure as hell don't care what 1AA teams are doing. People in your general area may care, but at best, you'll be just a touch behind the lower 1A schools and as they improve you fall further and further behind.

[blueraiderfn]

Massachusetts has a newly formed special Board of Trustees task force that is evaluating an upgrade.

The difference between elite FCS teams and mediocre FBS teams is simply not that great. We see examples of this fact every year. Last year for example, Massachusetts would have certainly beaten uconn and several other BE teams. (but the huskies have refused to play Massachusetts since the huskies were crushed 62-20 in '99).


See you CLAIM that something would happen, we have acutally done it. We have beaten them twice in the 21st century. You guys base your whole argument on conjecture.

[blueraiderfn]

The teams played in early September, the sagarin ratings take into account the entire season. Some teams get better, some obviously don't. If you think ASU was the same team in November or December as the first week of September you lost some creditiblity with me. You are basing your stance on one game out of 2,500 played.

You would have to be completely delusional to think that Appy St is better than NC State...This post proves you guys are on your on island convincing each other that you are relavent and that you belong. You are really good 1AA teams, but schollies alone would prevent you from coming in on the top half in the Sunbelt, much less a more established 1A conference.

[blueraiderfn]

C'mon guys, list your 1A wins oiver the last five to six years. Let's see what your two best conferences have done and well compare wins against the Sunbelt.

[blueraiderfn]

You need to take a very close look at those ratings and what teams are rated where. It's clear that SOS is not factored as much as wins and losses. Massey has Appalachian at 44th. He has Division II Grand Valley State positioned two spots over Appalachian. I suppose Division II football is much better than 1-AA, huh? And guess who's all the way down at #85 in those rankings? I'll give you a few hints. They finished 3-9; play in the ACC; were beaten by East Carolina, Southern Miss, and Akron; and won by 13 comfortable points over 2-time defending 1-AA National Champion Appalachian State. Guess who? It's NC State. If NC State could beat Appalachian which by the way was in a game they never trailed, then don't you think they deserve to be ranked higher? It's not like they padded the win total against the likes of Wofford, Elon, The Citadel, and Western Carolina. They played Florida State, Clemson, Virginia, Georgia Tech, and Wake Forest--teams that could and would beat anybody in 1-AA.

When I see how high they have Appalachian and how low they have NC State, I know without a shadow of a doubt that this ranking system is flawed. The teams ranked higher are not necessarily better than every team ranked below them as you guys are trying to suggest when you throw these polls out to try to say such and such 1-AA team is better than such and such 1-A team because they are ranked higher in this poll.

You understand what I'm saying? Massey and Sagarin can't accurately factor in SOS enough in their rankings. Anytime there is talks of polls and 1-A vs 1-AA debates, I never use those two polls or similar polls to validate my claims because they are inaccurate even in instances when the polls might work to my advantage. One season the Sun Belt was ranked higher than the MAC in the Sagarins. I don't think we were better than the MAC that year just because the Sagarins has us rated higher. The head-to-head matches was a more convincing argument to me there.

I've seen MT ranked ahead of Georgia and I know that's wrong. It's obvious that wins are much more heavily weighed than SOS.

[RaiderInTheZone]

lol mtsu fans trolling yet another FCS board. Nice to see your still working that #1 women's basketball recruit into your posts. First the Gsu board now ags.


I'm not trying to start a fight, man. I have alot of respect for Georgia Southern and Appalachian State and a few other 1-AA programs. And this is a 1-AA messageboard, and you are welcomed to whatever opinions you want.

I'd just like to know why do fans of 1-AA schools start threads such as "Sun Belt vs FCS" EVERY summer prior to the start of the season? It's not just a one time thing. You guys do it every year. Why? There are no such threads about the Mountain West, CUSA, MAC, WAC, or any of the Power Six leagues. You're always talking about the Sun Belt. Why? For a conference you guys believe to be awful, below over half the teams in 1-AA, and not worth playing or caring about you sure do spend quite a bit of time discussing them. Why? Why the obsession with the Sun Belt? That's all I want to know.

We don't expect you to follow our lead, be like us, or try to join our league or want to join our league. It's a moot point anyways. The Sun Belt won't expand regardless as evidenced by comments made in Birmingham news stating they have no interest in Jacksonville State or any other team wishing to move up and seek membership. It won't happen. But that's no reason to obsess over the Sun Belt.

Your schools will continue to do what is best for your schools. We will continue to do what is best for ours.

In my completely personal opinion, it is not worth it to me to have my team win a national title when it is not against the best teams that play that particular sport. It is not worth it to me for Middle Tennessee to win a national title when they aren't competing against the best teams in college football. I don't care if we never win a national title as long as we are competing against the best teams in every sport which we are. I believe that is part of the mentality of teams that make the jump. They know that a national title will likely never happen, but at least they are playing the best teams in America.

[RaiderInTheZone]

C'mon guys, list your 1A wins oiver the last five to six years. Let's see what your two best conferences have done and well compare wins against the Sunbelt.

1-AA schools have quite a few wins over 1-A schools. We should know all about that. Our team lost to Southeast Missouri in 2002 (same year we beat Vandy) and FAU in 2003 (worst year in 1-A), and also lost to Troy when they were 1-AA in our first year of 1-A in 1999 (but we did beat UT-Martin, Wofford, and East Tennessee). 1-A schools are not invincible from losing to 1-AA's. It happens at least once every year.

I remember when Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo crushed Texas-El Paso by like 3 touchdowns. I don't think that would happen today because UTEP is much better, but it happens.

It doesn't matter what wins 1-AA schools have and what wins the Sun Belt teams have. 1-AA schools have their position in 1-AA, and our schools will remain in 1-A. Nothing will change that until another 1-AA moves up. No need to try to compare the Sun Belt to 1-AA. They're two different divisions. It's like trying to compare apples to oranges. I encourage you to drop the debate. They won't convince you of anything, and you won't convince them of anything.

There's nothing to debate, and they are welcomed to have whatever opinions they wish of us and the Sun Belt and whatever other schools. It won't change anything. No matter what comments they make, it holds no bearing on our future. Messageboard comments don't sway a president to move his/her school from one division to another and the comments here won't convince ours to move down.

[Saint3333]

You would have to be completely delusional to think that Appy St is better than NC State...This post proves you guys are on your on island convincing each other that you are relavent and that you belong. You are really good 1AA teams, but schollies alone would prevent you from coming in on the top half in the Sunbelt, much less a more established 1A conference.

A 13 point loss (we threw one INT in the endzone, and the first snap over the QB's head for a safety). Add that plus Armanti Edwards in mid season form and ASU has more than a fighter's chance. I mean it was less than 3 TD's, @ NCSU, opening day playing with a QB @ 85%.

I believe we were better than the Sun Belt schools by the end of last year as well. I guess those rankings are delusional as well...

While saying all this I'm not anti-Sun Belt, just stating my opinion. ASU by the end of the year was a running over the top defenses in FCS. I wouldn't mind joining the Sun Belt in football only if it meant a chance to join a conference more in our region (a possible CUSA split into two conferences) at a later date. The travel costs associated with the other sports (17) are just too great at this time and the revenue isn't there.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Massachusetts has a newly formed special Board of Trustees task force that is evaluating an upgrade.

The difference between elite FCS teams and mediocre FBS teams is simply not that great. We see examples of this fact every year. Last year for example, Massachusetts would have certainly beaten uconn and several other BE teams. (but the huskies have refused to play Massachusetts since the huskies were crushed 62-20 in '99).

With UMass as the state flagship of Massachusetts with legitimate funding and Boston College moving to the ACC, I can reasonably see UMass making it into the Big East eventually if they did move up. UConn football made it there because of their previous conference ties to the BE in all other sports. Same way with South Florida. They were members of Conference USA as a non-football member before they even had football. When they started football, they were instant members of CUSA. When Miami, FL left for the ACC, the Big East wanted to place their footprint back in the recruiting grounds of Florida. They chose South Florida over Central Florida because USF was larger, in a larger market, and had a better reputation in non-revenue sports for the years they spent in CUSA.

But I do recall UMass undergoing a feasibility study. I can see the Big East in their future--not as quickly as UConn's, but definitely later on.

[Saint3333]

Of course I meant less than 2 TDs. Something is wrong with the edit function...

[RaiderInTheZone]

Maine over Miss St is an SEC win and Maine was a middle of the pack A10 team that year.

Tell me what wins over ranked teams you are talking about please.

Mississippi State was an anomaly that year. They were one of the weirdest teams to watch. You are referring to the 2004 season. Mississippi State went 3-9 and finished last in all of the SEC with losses to Maine, UAB, and Vanderbilt but somehow managed to beat a 7-5 Florida Gators team. I know often there is mention of Sun Belt teams being involved in lopsides losses, but MSU also lost to LSU 51-0 and Auburn 43-14.

[blueraiderfn]

Well, whatever a persons opinion is, good luck to the 1AA schools out there and have a great Fall.

[Sam Adams]

See you CLAIM that something would happen, we have acutally done it. We have beaten them twice in the 21st century. You guys base your whole argument on conjecture.


Since they were crushed in '99 Connecticut has refused to schedule a game with Massachusetts.

I'm not making an "argument" I'm stating a fact. That fact is that there is very little difference between the elite FCS teams and the mediocre FBS teams. The proof of that fact is borne out year after year when FBS teams are "upset" by FCS teams or when those games are much closer than fans such as yourself think they should be.

[blueraiderfn]

O.k. there was Miss St. What other examples do you have? What about the "advantage" of playing in a conference that gets three ESPN games vs one that has 16? What about listing your 1a wins over the last 5-6 years? Just give me a list of these close games and wins that you have for your best conference and we'll compare notes.

[bandit]

Last year for example, Massachusetts would have certainly beaten uconn and several other BE teams.

What "several other" BE teams would UMASS have certainly beaten last year?

[Sam Adams]

O.k. there was Miss St. What other examples do you have? What about the "advantage" of playing in a conference that gets three ESPN games vs one that has 16? What about listing your 1a wins over the last 5-6 years? Just give me a list of these close games and wins that you have for your best conference and we'll compare notes.

UNH 34 - NorthWestern 17

Montana State 19 - Colorado 10

Richmond 13 - Duke 0

Close Loss:
Navy 21 - Massachusetts 20 at Navy
then just 20 days later: Navy 47 - Uconn 17 at UConn.


Other BE schools Massachusetts would have beaten last season: Pittsburgh and Syracuse.

[terrierbob]

The Terriers gave Spurrier's Gamecocks a scare last year-27-20. We had it in the red zone in the last three minutes until they intercepted a pitch out. If SC had played all of the teams in the Sunbelt, how many would have kept it that close?

[RaiderInTheZone]

The Terriers gave Spurrier's Gamecocks a scare last year-27-20. We had it in the red zone in the last three minutes until they intercepted a pitch out. If SC had played all of the teams in the Sunbelt, how many would have kept it that close?

So it's okay to accept moral victories? I seriously doubt that Spurrier unleashed his entire artillery. Spurrier usually takes it easy on 1-AA teams and puts it all on the 1-A teams he plays.

I know the last time we played Wofford, we won. It was one of only 3 wins we saw that year.

[Ronbo]

Look for some more shakeup in FBS soon.

Syracuse to the Big Ten.

Memphis to the Big East.

Lousiana Tech to the CUSA.

??????? to the WAC.

Big Ten thinking expansion again (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/2007-07-25-network-expansion_N.htm)

[RaiderInTheZone]

Look for some more shakeup in FBS soon.

Syracuse to the Big Ten.

Memphis to the Big East.

Lousiana Tech to the CUSA.

??????? to the WAC.

Big Ten thinking expansion again (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/2007-07-25-network-expansion_N.htm)

Not likely. Memphis is not on the top of the Big East's list. That's a fact. Central Florida, Marshall, and East Carolina are above Memphis.

[terrierbob]

[QUOTE=RaiderInTheZone;605084]So it's okay to accept moral victories? I seriously doubt that Spurrier unleashed his entire artillery. Spurrier usually takes it easy on 1-AA teams and puts it all on the 1-A teams he plays.

I know the last time we played Wofford, we won. It was one of only 3 wins we saw that year.

**********************************************

I didn't say it was a victory of any sort. I was merely responding to the suggestion that close games be mentioned. BTW, with the score that close, you don't think they were playing as hard as they could and using all they had to avoid a humiliating loss? I'm pretty sure they pulled out the stops when it was within one touchdown.

[RaiderInTheZone]

[QUOTE=RaiderInTheZone;605084]So it's okay to accept moral victories? I seriously doubt that Spurrier unleashed his entire artillery. Spurrier usually takes it easy on 1-AA teams and puts it all on the 1-A teams he plays.

I know the last time we played Wofford, we won. It was one of only 3 wins we saw that year.

**********************************************

I didn't say it was a victory of any sort. I was merely responding to the suggestion that close games be mentioned. BTW, with the score that close, you don't think they were playing as hard as they could and using all they had to avoid a humiliating loss? I'm pretty sure they pulled out the stops when it was within one touchdown.

South Carolina had many personnel changes in their line-up last year. I don't know why, but they didn't play their best. But the end result was never in question.

[bandit]

Not likely. Memphis is not on the top of the Big East's list. That's a fact. Central Florida, Marshall, and East Carolina are above Memphis.


I don't know where you get your facts, but trust me when I say that Marshall will never be in consideration for Big East membership.

Memphis would be very much on the Big East's radar should a member leave via the Big 10.

[bandit]

Other BE schools Massachusetts would have beaten last season: Pittsburgh and Syracuse.

I doubt it, but anything's possible.

[Zoo]

Obviously you know nothing about Middle Tennessee or Sun Belt football or you would not have made this comment. I doubt you've ever seen a Middle Tennessee football game since we moved to 1-A. Our stadium is rarely just "half-filled these days as evidenced by our 22,000+ attendance average last year in a stadium that seats 30,000 (larger than any 1-AA stadium). You're trying to validate 1-AA's worth by making false statements about schools you obviously know nothing about except they play 1-A football in the Sun Belt. Explain to me why you are so obsessed with the league? You constantly talk about it all the time? Why can't you concentrate more on the Colonial League and 1-AA? Why do you have to continue to obsess over schools that you SHOULD have no interest in?

Is it just me? Or does Jackson State and Yale have to yell mercy here?

The Yale Bowl and Jackson State's stadium both can fit over 60,000+ people.

I'm not hating on the Sun Belt, but I did love watching Troy last year, they lit up the Owls in their bowl game, almost beat Florida State at their house.

Omar Haugabook, I love watching the kid play.

[Sam Adams]

Not likely. Memphis is not on the top of the Big East's list. That's a fact. Central Florida, Marshall, and East Carolina are above Memphis.


Not sure if you have a direct line to ot the BE commissioner but I would be SHOCKED if Marshall or E.Carolina are at the top of a BE potential member list. Memphis is seemingly much better fit than either of those 2 schools.

FWIW: I'm hearing possibly Pitt and Cuse to the B10. Which means at least 2 new BE schools but possibly more.

[terrierbob]

[QUOTE=RaiderInTheZone;605174][QUOTE=terrierbob;605170]

South Carolina had many personnel changes in their line-up last year. I don't know why, but they didn't play their best. But the end result was never in question.
################################################## ##
Never in question? They were relieved, not annoyed at the victory. A closet Spurrier fan, maybe?

[SoCon48]

So it's okay to accept moral victories? I seriously doubt that Spurrier unleashed his entire artillery. Spurrier usually takes it easy on 1-AA teams and puts it all on the 1-A teams he plays.

I know the last time we played Wofford, we won. It was one of only 3 wins we saw that year.

Whoop de damn do. Wofford won a whole 3 more games than MTSU that year as MTSU beat them by a whopping whole 10 points. It's not like Wofford was some knd of SoCon I-AA power house that year.

[OL FU]

Whoop de damn do. Wofford won a whole 3 more games than MTSU that year as MTSU beat them by a whopping whole 10 points. It's not like Wofford was some knd of SoCon I-AA power house that year.

Hell I remember when MTSU was a half-decent I-AA school. This is the first time I have heard their name in about 10 years or soxlolx Kinda like one of those where are they now showsxsmiley_wix

[terrierbob]

Whoop de damn do. Wofford won a whole 3 more games than MTSU that year as MTSU beat them by a whopping whole 10 points. It's not like Wofford was some knd of SoCon I-AA power house that year.
#################################################
It was our fourth year at I-AA, and the score was 52-42. A real shellacking.

[SoCon48]

Exactly. That was my point. Wofford had not yet built its program and still put up 42 on the MSU'ers.

[SoCon48]

Hell I remember when MTSU was a half-decent I-AA school. This is the first time I have heard their name in about 10 years or soxlolx Kinda like one of those where are they now showsxsmiley_wix


:D :D :D :D

[89Hen]

Maine over Miss St is an SEC win and Maine was a middle of the pack A10 team that year.

Tell me what wins over ranked teams you are talking about please.


O.k. there was Miss St. What other examples do you have? What about the "advantage" of playing in a conference that gets three ESPN games vs one that has 16? What about listing your 1a wins over the last 5-6 years? Just give me a list of these close games and wins that you have for your best conference and we'll compare notes.
Hell, I'm still waiting for your winS over ranked teams... who were they?

[dbackjon]

Obviously you know nothing about Middle Tennessee or Sun Belt football or you would not have made this comment. I doubt you've ever seen a Middle Tennessee football game since we moved to 1-A. Our stadium is rarely just "half-filled these days as evidenced by our 22,000+ attendance average last year in a stadium that seats 30,000 (larger than any 1-AA stadium). You're trying to validate 1-AA's worth by making false statements about schools you obviously know nothing about except they play 1-A football in the Sun Belt. Explain to me why you are so obsessed with the league? You constantly talk about it all the time? Why can't you concentrate more on the Colonial League and 1-AA? Why do you have to continue to obsess over schools that you SHOULD have no interest in?

22,000 home attendance? Take out the 33,000 Louisville "Home" game played in Nashville for a more accurate number...

[McTailGator]

Boise became a power solely because of coaching, from Pokey Allen, to Dan Hawkins, to Chris Petersen. and they have nothing else, I've been to Boise twice to see a football game. The stadium is alright, the town is and small, the water is brown, and their fans are all hicks. The only reason they are good is because of great coaching. If it wasn't for that who knows where Boise would be.


You also have to consider Geography into Boise's success.

Who did Boise have to play to get those early guarantee's so vital to their financial needs. They played, Big West, MWC, WAC, and Pac 10 teams. With the exception of USC (if they played them), their losing scores were probably still very respectable when or if they lost. Giving them the perception of not being that bad. A fan and a recruit has to think they are going to COMPETE and be respected. Thier future was bright.

These SunBelt teams are primarily going up against Southeastern Conference teams that are beating them by 65 or 70 points a game! NOT very repsectible and making it an embarrisment to be a fan or a recruit of those schools. Their fans are ashamed (Thus the low attendance numbers) and their players hide after so many beatings. It has got to effect their future and impeed their success. Boise fans and players think the future is bright. SunBelt fans and players just want to slow down the bleeding at this point.

Boise has everything going for them, and I think there physical location in the country has as much to do for it as anything else.


South Florida, is slightly simular but in a different way IMO.

Florida is a very populated state and it has A LOT of very talented recruits. Plus, let's face it, when it comes to BCS football, the Big East is not the SEC, Big 10, or the Big 12. It's not even the Pac10 for that matter. While a couple of teams (WVU, Rutgers, and Louisville) have demonstrated some recent success, they don't go head to head with the best of the other BCS conferencs very often and win.

[813Jag]

You also have to consider Geography into Boise's success.

Who did Boise have to play to get those early guarantee's so vital to their financial needs. They played, Big West, MWC, WAC, and Pac 10 teams. With the exception of USC (if they played them), their losing scores were probably still very respectable when or if they lost. Giving them the perception of not being that bad. A fan and a recruit has to think they are going to COMPETE and be respected. Thier future was bright.

These SunBelt teams are primarily going up against Southeastern Conference teams that are beating them by 65 or 70 points a game! NOT very repsectible and making it an embarrisment to be a fan or a recruit of those schools. Their fans are ashamed (Thus the low attendance numbers) and their players hide after so many beatings. It has got to effect their future and impeed their success. Boise fans and players think the future is bright. SunBelt fans and players just want to slow down the bleeding at this point.

Boise has everything going for them, and I think there physical location in the country has as much to do for it as anything else.


South Florida, is slightly simular but in a different way IMO.

Florida is a very populated state and it has A LOT of very talented recruits. Plus, let's face it, when it comes to BCS football, the Big East is not the SEC, Big 10, or the Big 12. It's not even the Pac10 for that matter. While a couple of teams (WVU, Rutgers, and Louisville) have demonstrated some recent success, they don't go head to head with the best of the other BCS conferencs very often and win.
I agree USF has made their climb without playing many SEC teams. They've only played one of the Big 3 in Florida and they beat Alabama one season. This year they added Auburn to the schedule so we'll see how they do.
Kind of off topic, Rutgers is trying to own the state of Florida.

[blueraiderfn]

UNH 34 - NorthWestern 17

Montana State 19 - Colorado 10

Richmond 13 - Duke 0

Close Loss:
Navy 21 - Massachusetts 20 at Navy
then just 20 days later: Navy 47 - Uconn 17 at UConn.


Other BE schools Massachusetts would have beaten last season: Pittsburgh and Syracuse.


O.k.MTSU wins: UConn (Twice), Vanderbilt (Three times), La Tech, South Florida, Akron (With Charlie Frye), Utah ST. New Mexico St., Idaho.

Troy: #17 Missourri, Marshall (Twice), Mississippi State, Rice, UAB Utah St.

North Texas: SMU (Twice), Baylor, Cinicinatti, NMSU, Idaho.

ULL: UAB, Houston, Eastern Michigan.

ASU: Memphis, Tulsa, Army, NMSU, Utah St, Idaho.

I won't go into the rest of the Sunbelt. Even if you throw out the "Idaho's," it's still many more quality wins than you closes 1AA conference. I know I will enjoy watching those 16 games on ESPN as well.

[blueraiderfn]

Hell, I'm still waiting for your winS over ranked teams... who were they?


I was referring to Troys win over #17 Mizzou. We were speaking of conferences wins, not of individual teams. BTW Mississippi State has about 3 wins in as many years. They are last place in wins in the SEC in the last 5 years. It wouldn't surprise me if Maine, Wofford, whoever beat them. You guys keep listing Miss. St. What else you got? I've put up my list for the Sunbelt. You guys are bringing up games against Wofford that took place when MT was still 1AA. Bring up something relevant, a game that took place since the turn of the century...Not CLOSE game, not MORAL victories, let's talk actual victories over ANY 1A team. I've seen 3 wins posted from your BEST conference and talk of how you guys are as good as the lowest 1A conference. I've seen talk of having just as much TV exposure, with 3 games being shown for your best conference. Face it kids: The facts don't match what you are selling. 1A brings more exposure, more money (eventually), better recruits, more schollies, more TV, etc Time to face the facts.

[andy7171]

1A brings more exposure, more money (eventually), better recruits, more schollies, more TV, etc Time to face the facts.
Seriously. I'm still waiting to see where anyone here disagrees with these points.

[blueraiderfn]

Your BEST schools in 1AA have basically the same budget and attendance as the LOWEST 1A schools in a conference that is only 6 years old. In 5 years, all but the lowest of the Sunbelt will have passed you (baring any conference realignment). Your TV deal is pitiful. Your national exposure is pitiful. You have no bowl tie ins, we have two. You have fewer scholarships, weaker overall athletic departments. I won't even go into the players that get drafted into the NFL. Like our fearless president likes to say: "That's fuzzy math."

[blueraiderfn]

Seriously. I'm still waiting to see where anyone here disagrees with these points.

Read the entire thread.

[89Hen]

Your BEST schools in 1AA have basically the same budget and attendance as the LOWEST 1A schools in a conference that is only 6 years old. In 5 years, all but the lowest of the Sunbelt will have passed you (baring any conference realignment). Your TV deal is pitiful. Your national exposure is pitiful. You have no bowl tie ins, we have two. You have fewer scholarships, weaker overall athletic departments. I won't even go into the players that get drafted into the NFL. Like our fearless president likes to say: "That's fuzzy math."
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8782/angrybabyheadge2.jpg

[McTailGator]

Your BEST schools in 1AA have basically the same budget and attendance as the LOWEST 1A schools in a conference that is only 6 years old. In 5 years, all but the lowest of the Sunbelt will have passed you (baring any conference realignment). Your TV deal is pitiful. Your national exposure is pitiful. You have no bowl tie ins, we have two. You have fewer scholarships, weaker overall athletic departments. I won't even go into the players that get drafted into the NFL. Like our fearless president likes to say: "That's fuzzy math."


Officially, you have 1 Bowl tie in.

THE GLORIOUS N.O. BOWL, and the rating for that one has been less than the FCS NC game.

The only guarantee money you make from the NO Toilet Bowl is from the tickets that YOUR school sells (FACT), which has left every Belch school in a financial hole after the game.

Troy took a bath for their appearence in that Bowl on the West Coast a couple of years ago too.

We have few scholarships, which means we have figured out that schools at our level AND YOURS, need to live within their means. It also shows that our business schools must be better because you are lossing much more by trying to compete against teams you have no business playing.

[89Hen]

I was referring to Troys win over #17 Mizzou.

Face it kids: The facts don't match what you are selling. 1A brings more exposure, more money (eventually), better recruits, more schollies, more TV, etc Time to face the facts.
xconfusedx Troy's win over 5-6 Missouri in 2004 are your wins over ranked teams?!??!?!?? xconfusedx xlolx

As for I-A bringing those things... I'd say that's true of real I-A conferences.

[McTailGator]

Seriously. I'm still waiting to see where anyone here disagrees with these points.


Better Recuits?

WHAT KIND OF A KID GOES TO A SCHOOL THAT IS EXPECTED TO LOSE 75% OF IT'S GAMES?

A LOSER!

[BearsCountry]

Your BEST schools in 1AA have basically the same budget and attendance as the LOWEST 1A schools in a conference that is only 6 years old. In 5 years, all but the lowest of the Sunbelt will have passed you (baring any conference realignment). Your TV deal is pitiful. Your national exposure is pitiful. You have no bowl tie ins, we have two. You have fewer scholarships, weaker overall athletic departments. I won't even go into the players that get drafted into the NFL. Like our fearless president likes to say: "That's fuzzy math."

Just playing devil's advocate bc I agree with most of that - what about us MVC schools? Sun Belt or MAC would be a step down for our athletic departments if we move all-sports for football.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Whoop de damn do. Wofford won a whole 3 more games than MTSU that year as MTSU beat them by a whopping whole 10 points. It's not like Wofford was some knd of SoCon I-AA power house that year.
#################################################
It was our fourth year at I-AA, and the score was 52-42. A real shellacking.


And it was our very first year in 1-A. And we were still operating with 63 scholarships that year, thank you very much.

[RaiderInTheZone]

22,000 home attendance? Take out the 33,000 Louisville "Home" game played in Nashville for a more accurate number...

I won't do it, because if that game was played in Mufreesboro the attendance would've been only a couple thousand less in a sell-out in Floyd. Nashville is our market and it's very much a home game for us even if Louisville has thousands of alumni living in Nashville.

[RaiderInTheZone]

You also have to consider Geography into Boise's success.

Who did Boise have to play to get those early guarantee's so vital to their financial needs. They played, Big West, MWC, WAC, and Pac 10 teams. With the exception of USC (if they played them), their losing scores were probably still very respectable when or if they lost. Giving them the perception of not being that bad. A fan and a recruit has to think they are going to COMPETE and be respected. Thier future was bright.

These SunBelt teams are primarily going up against Southeastern Conference teams that are beating them by 65 or 70 points a game! NOT very repsectible and making it an embarrisment to be a fan or a recruit of those schools. Their fans are ashamed (Thus the low attendance numbers) and their players hide after so many beatings. It has got to effect their future and impeed their success. Boise fans and players think the future is bright. SunBelt fans and players just want to slow down the bleeding at this point.

Boise has everything going for them, and I think there physical location in the country has as much to do for it as anything else.


South Florida, is slightly simular but in a different way IMO.

Florida is a very populated state and it has A LOT of very talented recruits. Plus, let's face it, when it comes to BCS football, the Big East is not the SEC, Big 10, or the Big 12. It's not even the Pac10 for that matter. While a couple of teams (WVU, Rutgers, and Louisville) have demonstrated some recent success, they don't go head to head with the best of the other BCS conferencs very often and win.

That is an overexaggeration and you know it. The last time any SEC school won by that kind of margin, Florida whipped on little 'ole Western Carolina--a 1-AA Southern Conference school.

And if you want to talk lopsided losses, then why doesn't the SEC kick out Mississippi State for losing to LSU 51-0 in 2004? Everybody takes their beatings. It's not just a "Sun Belt" thing like overzealous 1-AA fans want to believe. It's a shame you guys can't put personal feelings aside and discuss a topic objectively.

I still haven't been answered my question. Why do fans of 1-AA schools obsess over the Sun Belt Conference more than any league in 1-A?

[blueraiderfn]

Officially, you have 1 Bowl tie in.

THE GLORIOUS N.O. BOWL, and the rating for that one has been less than the FCS NC game.

The only guarantee money you make from the NO Toilet Bowl is from the tickets that YOUR school sells (FACT), which has left every Belch school in a financial hole after the game.

Troy took a bath for their appearence in that Bowl on the West Coast a couple of years ago too.

We have few scholarships, which means we have figured out that schools at our level AND YOURS, need to live within their means. It also shows that our business schools must be better because you are lossing much more by trying to compete against teams you have no business playing.

The 2nd bowl tie in is done and you know it. We make money playing better teams AND we get more exposure AND we get more experience.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Your BEST schools in 1AA have basically the same budget and attendance as the LOWEST 1A schools in a conference that is only 6 years old. In 5 years, all but the lowest of the Sunbelt will have passed you (baring any conference realignment). Your TV deal is pitiful. Your national exposure is pitiful. You have no bowl tie ins, we have two. You have fewer scholarships, weaker overall athletic departments. I won't even go into the players that get drafted into the NFL. Like our fearless president likes to say: "That's fuzzy math."

And there lies my thing. We have chosen to move up. I'm glad we did. It's not worth it for the reputation of our university as a whole to be a top 1-AA team as opposed to a school in 1-A even if it's toward the bottom. Obviously, it's going to be hard for us to compete with schools that have been playing at this level for over a hundred years as most 1-A schools have. But it's better than settling for humdrum OVC games against unknowns Eastern Kentucky, Morehead, Jacksonville State, Murray State, UT-Martin, or HBCU problem child tsu.

[Mountaineer]

I still haven't been answered my question. Why do fans of 1-AA schools obsess over the Sun Belt Conference more than any league in 1-A?

I've never visited a Sun Belt message board in my life (is there one?) I've never been to a MTSU board either. However, you and a few of your Raider friends somehow find your way over here, to our decidely inferior brand of football forum, and we have the obsession? xlolx

Sure.. xwhistlex xthumbsupx

[RaiderInTheZone]

I've never visited a Sun Belt message board in my life (is there one?) I've never been to a MTSU board either. However, you and a few of your Raider friends somehow find your way over here, to our decidely inferior brand of football forum, and we have the obsession? xlolx

Sure.. xwhistlex xthumbsupx

That doesn't make any difference. My point is this. The Sun Belt is always a topic you guys discuss every waking moment of the day and night. Why? Why the Sun Belt and not any of the other 1-A leagues?

You visit our forums and we rarely discuss 1-AA football. Every once in a while there may be mention of a few when realignment rumors emerge and talks of 1-AA's doing feasibility studies like the articles posted on our boards about the Sun Belt rightfully shunning Jacksonville State that came out of Birmingham a couple weeks ago.

[89Hen]

we get more exposure
Great if you like negative exposure. xthumbsupx

[andy7171]

That doesn't make any difference. My point is this. The Sun Belt is always a topic you guys discuss every waking moment of the day and night. Why? Why the Sun Belt and not any of the other 1-A leagues?

Because several I-AA conferences are ranked higher.
Because the Sun Belt is perceived as the weakest conference in FBS.
Because only the conference winner is guarenteed a bowl.
Because that bowl is the NO Bowl.
Because the FCS NC game got better ratings.
Because its not a BCS conference.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Great if you like negative exposure. xthumbsupx

I don't consider being ranked 16th in the country, possessing the nation's longest winning streak over Duke, Tennessee, and North Carolina, defeating 8th-ranked Georgia, and fixing to have a nationally televised home game against LSU on ESPN2 as negative exposure? Of course, I'm not talking about football either. I'm talking about our women's basketball program.

You assume we make the move to 1-A to benefit only football? And you think our women's basketball program would be where it is at today if we were still a member of the Low-VC?

The concept that you guys cannot seem to grasp is that the move to 1-A is an all-sports improvement. What is so hard to understand about that? Why can't you guys comprehend that? If we were moving only our football team to the Sun Belt, I'd probably have a problem with it too, but we elevated EVERYTHING we offer by leaving the OVC for the Sun Belt. It was the right move.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Because several I-AA conferences are ranked higher.
Because the Sun Belt is perceived as the weakest conference in FBS.
Because only the conference winner is guarenteed a bowl.
Because that bowl is the NO Bowl.
Because the FCS NC game got better ratings.
Because its not a BCS conference.


Cite your source on those TV ratings. I want to see them.

You prove my point with your other comments. You obsess over the Sun Belt in order to lift yourselves up and feel better about yourselves. That's shallow living in my book. By the way, the Sun Belt was not rated lower than any 1-AA league except by polls that do not factor in SOS like the Sagarins and Masseys. NEXT!

[McTailGator]

That doesn't make any difference. My point is this. The Sun Belt is always a topic you guys discuss every waking moment of the day and night. Why? Why the Sun Belt and not any of the other 1-A leagues?

You visit our forums and we rarely discuss 1-AA football. Every once in a while there may be mention of a few when realignment rumors emerge and talks of 1-AA's doing feasibility studies like the articles posted on our boards about the Sun Belt rightfully shunning Jacksonville State that came out of Birmingham a couple weeks ago.

Because 80% of the SunBelch schools do not belong in FBS, in terms of support, finances, and especialy quality. While that is true of several other schools, the SBC stands out as having the most.

The SBC would be about the 3rd ranked conference in FCS, and most of the SBC coaches have to lie and cut FCS schools down when recruiting. Ask UL-Lafayette's coaches.

[andy7171]

The concept that you guys cannot seem to grasp is that the move to 1-A is an all-sports improvement.
The problem here is that by the NCAA definition, I-A vs I-AA is a FOOTBALL ONLY issue.