Has the emergence of the MAC destroyed YSU?

[tsutiger]

I know it’s tough to replace a legend. However, if you don’t have talent I don’t care if the legend was still their your not going to win.

Ohio is arguably a top 3 football state, definitely a top 5 football state. Yet, only one team plays 1AA football with that being Youngstown State. Imagine Florida, California, Texas with only one 1AA programs. If you ask me, Georgia Southern really benefits from being the only school in the state that plays 1AA.

In the last 5 years the MAC has put themselves on the 1A map. Before that the MAC was straight up weak. The MAC has six members from the state of Ohio. Bowling Green, Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Kent State, and Akron. If you go by Sheridan’s odds the only non-Ohio team that is predicted to finish in the top seven is Northern Illinois picked to finish 4th.

Though they are not in the MAC, University of Cincinnati is now establishing their football program and will play in the Big East this season.

Could this be the reason, YSU now sucks?

[Paladin1aa]

I'll bite -- "recruiting" , one word and all you need to know. The "MAC" is still a joke. The top 4 teams ARE I-A . The other 10 are I-AA caliber. When you look at the roster, YSU is heavy from Ohio and blends Pa. & Fla. athletes. Thats always a good mix for a team.

However, Heacock's first 3 classes were "stinkers". Pa recruiting fell off, Fla has not been as good as it once was and the Ohio kids were in many cases D-II athletes. While the competition here is fierce for quality Ohio players ( with 8 I-A schools and the MAC, Big 10, Big East, ACC, SEC,CUSA & ND gobbling up Ohio players, not to mention the OVC, Gateway, A-10 & Southern Conf. taking players here & there), that all was present under Tressel. So, you can't "explain" away poor Pa. & Fla. recruiting on the MAC and there are plenty of quailty players in Ohio IF you have a competent HC recruiting.

BTW, I wouldn't count on YSU "sucking" forever. The last 2 classes have been very good and a new HC could turn this around quickly .All Heacock has done is prove a good DC doesn't necessarily make a good HC. Just recruit and the rest, as they say, would be history. :nod:

[Cap'n Cat]

Cap'n Cat thinks ya both have good points.

However, I disagree, pallie, and think YSU is in the ****ter for a long time. It will take years, for many of the above reasons to recover in that environment.

[Paladin1aa]

Keep "shivering" in the corner ,Cat. One good HC would turn this around and quickly. Will it happen ?? Stay tuned !! :p

P.S. -- Upon further review , I've changed my mind on UNI winning the GFC. Schedule works against you and I believe some one below the current "big 3" beats you this year. Sorry, only "kitty litter "for you this year. :D

[pennyguin2005]

I don't know this is a touchy subject. It you all remember correctly the MAC took Buffalo over us. I believe on of the reasons they did this is: they didn't want 3 schools within an hour of each other competing in the same conference. The MAC probaly felt that we would take recruits away from Kent, and Akron.

And yes the MAC is still weak. There are what a handful(or less) of good teams in the MAC, and if memory serves me right isn't Marshall leaving the MAC to go to Conference USA(someone correct me if I'm wrong).

As for who destroyed YSU. That's an easy question. They did by not hiring an expierence HC(let the pelting begin). Well see what happens in the next few years. I believe once we get a solid HC, we'll get the recruits we need, and eventually work our way back.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. Oh wait the season hasn't started yet.

[RadMann]

Marshall already has left the MAC.

[Cap'n Cat]

P.S. -- Upon further review , I've changed my mind on UNI winning the GFC. Schedule works against you and I believe some one below the current "big 3" beats you this year. Sorry, only "kitty litter "for you this year. :D

It happens every year, Pallie. Some lowly ass GFC team beats the UNI juggernaut. Word from Cedar Falls, though, is that they have quite a solid crew this year. We'll see............

[Paladin1aa]

Starting this year Rad Man. The Herd failed to win the MAC last year. THIS YEAR they will be gone.
Thus, after Toledo,BG,Miami & Northern Ill, you have a muddling crew of I-A wanna-bes that play like I-AAs.

Now really -- Buffalo, East. Mich., Kent St, Akron, Ohio, Ball St., Cent Mich and even W. Mich at times play like I-AAs, not I- A's.

We'll get to see "attendancegate" again this year, major losing records and MAC teams on the "Bottom 10" rankings. :p

[YSUBW]

Buffalo like Temple was chosen for the TV Market.....

Heacock hurt YSU, not the MAC....

Agree with Paladin, the MAC should be the BIG 4 and little 10.

The Big East is a Basketball Conference...Utah posting 35 on Pitt in Fiesta Bowl is case in point...

YSU does not have the finances or commitment to be in the MAC.


As for all you doubters...The Penguins will FLY again

[blukeys]

As for all you doubters...The Penguins will FLY again

Anyone familiar with the scientific discipline of zoology knows that Penguins do not now and never did fly! :rolleyes: ;) And will not do so in the foreseeable future. :D :D :D

[Paladin1aa]

Egads :eek: -- a Right Winger spouting "evolution" ?? Science ?? :D

One good HC next year, one more "good " recruiting class and YSU is "back in the hunt" !! :p :p :p

[JaxSinfonian]

Could this be the reason, YSU now sucks?
I don't know why YSU sucks. I'm not even sure YSU actually sucks.


If you ask me, Georgia Southern really benefits from being the only school in the state that plays 1AA
I do know that Savannah State is in Georgia, but you might be right about Ga. Southern being the only team in the state playing at the I-AA level.

[DetroitFlyer]

Let's not forget the University of Dayton of the 1AA Pioneer Football League. If you think YSU has challenges recruiting, try it at Dayton with zero scholarships to offer.... That said, I think it is a crime that UD and YSU do not play each other anymore....

[GoGuins]

Anyone familiar with the scientific discipline of zoology knows that Penguins do not now and never did fly! :rolleyes: ;) And will not do so in the foreseeable future. :D :D :D

I don't think a Blue Hen flies much better than a Penguin :D

[GoGuins]

Let's not forget the University of Dayton of the 1AA Pioneer Football League. If you think YSU has challenges recruiting, try it at Dayton with zero scholarships to offer.... That said, I think it is a crime that UD and YSU do not play each other anymore....

No offense, but even with YSU being "down" I think YSU beats Dayton handily if they play. Just as you said, Dayton gets zero scholarships. I would like to see it happen though instead of YSU playing a DII although I think some DII's would beat a non-scholie I-AA.

[tsutiger]

Let's not forget the University of Dayton of the 1AA Pioneer Football League. If you think YSU has challenges recruiting, try it at Dayton with zero scholarships to offer.... That said, I think it is a crime that UD and YSU do not play each other anymore....

I didn't forget about UD. I'm born and raised in Dayton. However, if you ask me they don't play 1AA football. More like DIII.

Most people seem to think it's coaching, and not losing athletes to the MAC and UC, whom YSU would get before these programs started putting themselves on the national scene. Time will tell, but i don't see YSU winning anymore rings anytime soon.

[Eagle_77]

I know it’s tough to replace a legend. However, if you don’t have talent I don’t care if the legend was still their your not going to win.

Ohio is arguably a top 3 football state, definitely a top 5 football state. Yet, only one team plays 1AA football with that being Youngstown State. Imagine Florida, California, Texas with only one 1AA programs. If you ask me, Georgia Southern really benefits from being the only school in the state that plays 1AA.

In the last 5 years the MAC has put themselves on the 1A map. Before that the MAC was straight up weak. The MAC has six members from the state of Ohio. Bowling Green, Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Kent State, and Akron. If you go by Sheridan’s odds the only non-Ohio team that is predicted to finish in the top seven is Northern Illinois picked to finish 4th.

Though they are not in the MAC, University of Cincinnati is now establishing their football program and will play in the Big East this season.

Could this be the reason, YSU now sucks?


I think you are a little off on this. Georgia Southern is not only the only I-AA in the state (Savannah St) but they are not the only ones who recruit this state. These I-AA schools recruit GA pretty heavily and some in our own back yard: UTC-29, Furman-28, Wofford-17, Jasonville St-12, SC State-12, Bethune-Cookman-11, App St-10, and the Citadel-9. Georgia players often show up on many programs throughout the I-AA nation.

Not only this but we have 3 very good Division II programs in Valdosta St, Albany St, and West GA. All three of these teams have been in the playoffs recently with Valdosta St winning the Div II Championship last year.

And as if this wasn’t enough you have UGA-105, GT-47, South Carolina-13, Clemson-20, Aurburn-27, Alabama-6, Tennesse-6, Florida-7, Troy-32, and Florida St-12 all being boarder schools to Georgia that raid the states HS athletes. Then you have some others like Vandy-17, UNC-9, and Navy-7 that regularly recruit the state.

We may not have the same number of schools that Ohio has in the state but we probably have the same amount of schools recruiting the state.


**Note: these are last years roster numbers for the most part

[tsutiger]

^
Eagle77

I didn't forget about Savannah St. just like I didn't forget about Dayton. Last season they only offered 5 scholarships. That's not playing 1AA football. More like DIII football just like Dayton.

If a kid from GA wants to stay in state he has Georgia then GT then Georgia Southern. I'm sure GSU is not losing to many athletes to Albany St., Valdosta St or West Georgia. By the way West Georgia has only won their conference twice since moving up to DII with zero playoff victories. I don't think GSU recruiters are losing any sleep over West Georgia beating them out for players. I would have listed Fort Valley before WG.

Of course 1A's are going to get the top athletes. But look at Louisana where McNeese, Southern, Grambling and Nicholls all fight for the same athletes. In Texas Sam Houston State, S.F Austin and Texas State. Georgia Southern and Savannah State with their 5 scholarships? Feel me now?

[bluehenbillk]

You can sum up YSU's decline in a word: Tressel

GoGuins: what's up with the Stevie Breaston pic? If the folks in Y-town saw that I'd check your car for a pipe bomb before you get into it, that's serious Buckeye territory.

[Eagle_77]

^
Eagle77

I didn't forget about Savannah St. just like I didn't forget about Dayton. Last season they only offered 5 scholarships. That's not playing 1AA football. More like DIII football just like Dayton.

If a kid from GA wants to stay in state he has Georgia then GT then Georgia Southern. I'm sure GSU is not losing to many athletes to Albany St., Valdosta St or West Georgia. By the way West Georgia has only won their conference twice since moving up to DII with zero playoff victories. I don't think GSU recruiters are losing any sleep over West Georgia beating them out for players. I would have listed Fort Valley before WG.

Of course 1A's are going to get the top athletes. But look at Louisana where McNeese, Southern, Grambling and Nicholls all fight for the same athletes. In Texas Sam Houston State, S.F Austin and Texas State. Georgia Southern and Savannah State with their 5 scholarships? Feel me now?


I understood what you were saying the whole time just dont think its as easy as many think. In the case of Furman, Wofford, Jax St, and UTC they are very close to the GA boarder. I really dont think that kids look that much at staying with an instate school as much as they do at staying close to home. I doubt that Furman gets many players from the SW region of Georgia.

West Georgia was a good team before moving to Div II and that was what I had in mind when I put them in there. Valdosta State gets more players that GSU would like then you think. Many players look at depth when choosing a school and if you have a chance to win a championship with either team then it comes down to playing time. But the fact remains that other outstanding programs such as Furman and all the I-A's do look to GA for a lot of their recruits so its not like we are Montana or North Dakota where there is nothing else around.

[tsutiger]

But the fact remains that other outstanding programs such as Furman and all the I-A's do look to GA for a lot of their recruits so its not like we are Montana or North Dakota where there is nothing else around.

I can agree with that.

[Pen Guin]

You can sum up YSU's decline in a word: Tressel

GoGuins: what's up with the Stevie Breaston pic? If the folks in Y-town saw that I'd check your car for a pipe bomb before you get into it, that's serious Buckeye territory.


Actually, since Tressel went to OSU, Ytown has become heavy Buckeye country. However, prior to that, I would say that UM, OSU, PSU we very close in the number of local fans, with a small contingency of Pitt faithful. Strong Italian community ... JoePa is next to sainthood in Youngstown. Penn St. is the closest, they have a branch about 20 minutes away. There are as many Ytown area students at Kent, as at YSU. Remember, there are many in town that only follow YSU & nothing else. Notre Dame popularity tops all of them, maybe even combined .... and even with JT at Cbus, maybe still does. Same holds true for the NFL locals ... Ytown fans about 48% Brownies, 48% Stillers, and about 4% Packers.

[Paladin1aa]

Tressel is a popular misconception. Heacock went 8-3 & 7-4 the first two years with Tressel recruits. The problem is his first 3 recruit classes were "stinkers". By year 3, his recruits started showing up in starting positions. Result, 5-7 . The next year, 4-7. The recruiting difference is stark. Tressel recruited better H.S. seniors than Heacock has. Ditto Jucos & transfers. Tressel's were far better.

That said, its pretty difficult not to find good players in Ohio. We have some, just not the numbers we had before. But Pa. recruiting fell off a cliff under Heacock and Fla. has been mediocre.

Even Tressel had a losing season here or there. But the quality of players he brought in from everywhere was very good and in good numbers. Heacock's recruiting has really been terrible, except for the last 2 years.

Its win or out for him. Yet the stable isn't bare. Another good class and the Guins will make noise again.

P.S . Tiger , I'd like to see a Dayton -YSU series as well. It would be a slaughter, even in our average condition here, but very entertaining for fans.I-aa non-schollie FB is glorified D-III. The best match-up would be area D-III National power Mount Union vs. Dayton. And my money would be on Mount.

[DetroitFlyer]

The student-athletes attending the upper tier 1AA Mid-Major programs, ( Dayton, Drake, San Diego, Albany, Monmouth, Duquesne ) is a significant step above Division III. Years ago, UD/Mount Union would be a good game. It still would but the money would most certainly be on UD! No advantage for either school to play each other. Dayton and YSU have a long history and I think UD leads the all time series. I also think YSU would win, but it would not be a blowout. Dayton played Yale to the last minute at UD last season, ( inside the 5, driving for a tying score when we fumbled.... ). The top tier Mid-Major programs have come along way from their Division III days. A renewal of an Ohio rivaly would be good for both schools. By the way, there are 29 games between 1AA Mid-Major and 1AA this season. I will be tracking them and reporting back on how the Mids stack up. By the end of the season it will be clear that 1AA Mid-Major at the top level is not Division III.

[Paladin1aa]

Sorry - ex HFC here. Dayton would be killed. I'M a Morehead St guy and the Eagles USED to play I-AA FB with the Guins in the old OVC. Now , both the Eagles (who are also good Mid -Major) and the Flyers would have their head handed to them as non-schollies. The " Ivies" are inferior FB and do not play much of any true I-AA scholarship teams of stature.

We have the option of playing one the D-II PSAC schools in the opener every year or several I-AA non-schollies from the East. The coaching staff is unanimous that D-II offers better competition for the team than I-AA non-schollie.

However, have your AD call us. A Dayton game would help our recruiting and I'M certainly not worried about the outcome. BTW, Dayton when they WERE D-I played D-II YSU. That is the difference in record. Today is another story.

[igo4uni]

Sorry - ex HFC here. Dayton would be killed. I'M a Morehead St guy and the Eagles USED to play I-AA FB with the Guins in the old OVC. Now , both the Eagles (who are also good Mid -Major) and the Flyers would have their head handed to them as non-schollies. The " Ivies" are inferior FB and do not play much of any true I-AA scholarship teams of stature.

We have the option of playing one the D-II PSAC schools in the opener every year or several I-AA non-schollies from the East. The coaching staff is unanimous that D-II offers better competition for the team than I-AA non-schollie.

However, have your AD call us. A Dayton game would help our recruiting and I'M certainly not worried about the outcome. BTW, Dayton when they WERE D-I played D-II YSU. That is the difference in record. Today is another story.

Does this occur before the world ends, paladin??

peace

igo4uni

[FlyYtown]

I have talked with some in the YSU program and the MAC Programs and back 1996ish or 1997ish era there was a vote; private not many knew but I did know; to vote in a few teams in the MAC.

YSU AND BUFFALO were a few of the bunch.

...but Akron and Kent pressured the MAC not to add YSU and voted and encouraged others to vote in Buffalo over YSU. Well sure enough they got what they wanted now.

From those I have talked with the MAC Kent and Akron didn't like the fact YSU dominated them in most meetings and that they were already so close they didn't need another rivalry that close which they'd get killed in.

Now those are from RELIABLE sources. I would not lie about something like that.

YSU Will be great this year! P=L=A=Y=O=F=F=S