Big News for the NEC!!

[Monmouth Fan]

The following story will appear in tomorrow's Asbury Park Press concerning possible NEC automatic bid into NCAA playoffs.

Northeast Conference nearing automatic bid to NCAA football playoffs.
NEC champ may be participating by 2008
By TONY GRAHAM
STAFF WRITER

At long last the Northeast Conference appears to be gaining major yardage in its football quest to automatically become a participant in the NCAA post season.

The gain is so substantial that if Monmouth University wins the 2008 NEC football championship it could be competing in that fall’s Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division 1-AA) playoffs.


http://grahamman.blogspot.com/2007/07/major-nec-football-news.html

[DFW HOYA]

OK, what other conferences are considered "eligible"?

NEC-sounds like it.
Big South-likely.
Pioneer???

[rmutv]

OK, what other conferences are considered "eligible"?

NEC-sounds like it.
Big South-likely.
Pioneer???

According to the article, the NEC was the only eligible conference that was not included.

[Go...gate]

This is very good news.

[TheValleyRaider]

I believe the NEC is the only eligible conference that applied that was not included. I would think the Pioneer is eligible, but they have not applied for an autobid. The Ivy and SWAC, technically, are eligible too, but they of course have not applied. The Big South and Great West are NOT eligible. The Great West doesn't meet the membership requirement of 6, and the Big South won't be there until at least 2008 when Stony Brook joins (and even then I'm not 100% sure because I think there's also a clause that says the conferences have to have been together for X number of years before being official autobid eligible).

Still, I'm glad the NEC continues to have its foot in the door, and also in favor of seeing them join in without having to kick out another established conference's autobid. The more the merrier :)

[BobbyMo]

Still, I'm glad the NEC continues to have its foot in the door, and also in favor of seeing them join in without having to kick out another established conference's autobid. The more the merrier :)


WOW xeekx xeekx xeekx
That sounds good. I feel the NEC is doing everything they can to position themselves to be in the playoffs xnodx xnodx

LETS GO NEC

[danefan]

Now lets get up to 45 rides and I'd be happy with UA in the NEC until the new conference gets going in 2010 or 2011.


So the Gridiron Classic will be the 2nd place NEC team versus the winner of the PFL? Why would the PFL want that?

A four (maybe five) horse race for an auto-bid is quite nice (Albany, Monmouth, CCSU, RMU and maybe Duquense).

[UAalum72]

I can't wait for the comments from all those people who told us that football is so unique compared to all other sports that the playoffs can't be expanded.

[danefan]

I can't wait for the comments from all those people who told us that football is so unique compared to all other sports that the playoffs can't be expanded.


Haha. Still waiting......xcoffeexxcoffeexxcoffeexxcoffeex

[TexasTerror]

Any expansion needs to held off until atleast one more conference (i.e Big South) gets eligible. That way they don't have to change things twice in a few year time frame if it is true that the NEC is going to get into the mix...

[danefan]

Any expansion needs to held off until atleast one more conference (i.e Big South) gets eligible. That way they don't have to change things twice in a few year time frame if it is true that the NEC is going to get into the mix...


I would imagine they are considering the Big South when making this determination. Big South will apply when eligible and they should be included as much as the NEC.



FYI - link for actual article:
http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070715/SPORTS02/707150436/1010

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here's your "news" in this article:


At June 25-27 meeting in Savannah, Ga. the NCAA Division I Championships/Competition Cabinet issued a directive to the FCS committee to provide by mid September a plan for access into the championship for all eligible conferences. Over recent years the NEC has been the lone eligible conference to be snubbed.

Whoopee. xcoffeex

"Our plan will require all the teams to have at least six teams with at least 50 equivalencies, or spend more than $2 Million on their football teams, to qualify for an autobid into the playoffs. Of course, you can still play yourself into the playoffs like Cal Poly has by playing real well and getting at at-large".

No news here.

[danefan]

Here's your "news" in this article:



Whoopee. xcoffeex

"Our plan will require all the teams to have at least six teams with at least 50 equivalencies, or spend more than $2 Million on their football teams, to qualify for an autobid into the playoffs. Of course, you can still play yourself into the playoffs like Cal Poly has by playing real well and getting at at-large".

No news here.

Thats fine if they require 50 rides. Does anyone know how many eligible conferences there will be? Or does that encompass all currently eligible (except NEC).

If the 50 ride requirement does pass for AQ's it gives the big five in the NEC (including Duq.) a better case to get a team like Bryant to come in the NEC to satisfy the requirement.

With an AQ being dangled in front of the NEC's face, I think teams will get 50 rides so long as they can afford and Title IX is met - which are both admittedly large obstacles.

[MplsBison]

I'd rather the Big South get it before the NEC.

[danefan]

I'd rather the Big South get it before the NEC.

I'm sure the Big South will get one as soon as they are eligible. But they aren't yet. And I agree, Big South is currently more deserving....if they were eligible.

[UAalum72]

"Our plan will require all the teams to have at least six teams with at least 50 equivalencies, or spend more than $2 Million on their football teams, to qualify for an autobid into the playoffs. Of course, you can still play yourself into the playoffs like Cal Poly has by playing real well and getting at at-large".

No news here.
LFN, what's the source of your quote, since it's not in the Press story?

Proposal 2006-110 requiring 50 grants-in-aid or $1.25 million was withdrawn in January. If it's been resubmitted (and I didn't see that on the NCAA web site), what's the rationale for the specific numbers used?

And it still shows it's possible to expand the playoffs.

[aceinthehole]

Let's clear up a few things:

1) This clearly indicates the NEC is the only ELIGIBLE conference to be DENIED. We know the Ivy, SWAC, and PFL are ELIGIBLE, but they CHOOSE not to compete. Finally, the NCAA has finally agreed with what I (and otehr NEC fans) have be saying all along - make the AQ criteria transparent! Congrats to the NEC leadership (and members) for being so persistant on this issue.

2) IMO - This new makes the Stony Brook AD look very stupid. He broke a contact wil the NEC to go Indy. Then he realized he can't schedule 11 non-conference games and settles into the Big South until the CAA splits and the AE sponsors football. There is a very real possiblity that the NEC will get an AQ to the playoffs BEFORE the Big South. So instead of playing northeast rivals like CCSU, Monmouth, and their AE and SUNY partner Albany, they will travel south to face teams most SBU fans have never heard of.

3) My guess is the NCAA will add 1 AQ for the NEC and 1 additional at-large. The NEC winner will face the last at-large team in an PIG; the winner will advance to play at the #1 seed. The proposed expansion for 2008 does not have to include the Big South! In fact, if the NCAA adds 2 AQs (for NEC and BS), they have to add 2 more at-large bids.

4) There are NO any minimun standards that are being proposed (e.g 50 equivs, or $2m expenditures) right now. Those previous rpropsals have been withdrawn. This can clearly change when the NCAA plan come out.

5) This is clearly good news for NEC fans, but IMO this is also good news for all FCS fans. The NEC has moved from non-scholly to schollys, they have scheduled very tough, and have won games vs. the FCS elite. Its good to see the subclassification growing. NEC adds three major media markets to the FCS - Pittsburgh (RMU and Duq), Hartford (CCSU), Albany (UA), and Northern NJ (Monmouth), that currently do not have a local team in an AQ conference. This could increase the exposure of the FCS product to these new markets!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN, what's the source of your quote, since it's not in the Press story?

Proposal 2006-110 requiring 50 grants-in-aid or $1.25 million was withdrawn in January. If it's been resubmitted (and I didn't see that on the NCAA web site), what's the rationale for the specific numbers used?

And it still shows it's possible to expand the playoffs.

The quote was a hypothetical answer that could be created by the FCS committee, based on one they made in the past (2006-110), not anything real. But it does show that the "big news" is little more than making a "possible plan for access" for non-eligible conferences, which to be isn't very big news. Sure, it shows that it may be possible to expand the playoffs. But what's to stop the FCS committee with coming up with something similar to what I mentioned?

Remember, I feel that eventually the playoffs will need to expand, and that the NEC should get a chance to prove their worth as an autobid conference. But this announcement is really nothing much to get excited about in my mind. If anything, it's foot-dragging.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is clearly good news for NEC fans, but IMO this is also good news for all FCS fans. The NEC has moved from non-scholly to schollys, they have scheduled very tough, and have won games vs. the FCS elite. Its good to see the subclassification growing. NEC adds three major media markets to the FCS - Pittsburgh (RMU and Duq), Hartford (CCSU), Albany (UA), and Northern NJ (Monmouth), that currently do not have a local team in an AQ conference. This could increase the exposure of the FCS product to these new markets!

The next (very important) step - not to be discounted here - is to have a team that can qualify as an at-large team to the FCS playoffs. Your case will be bolstered immeasurably if one of your teams can go 11-0 and qualify for the playoffs (and had Albany gone undefeated or 10-1 last year, I think they would have been in).

Don't get stars in your eyes about AQ's yet, especially after this quasi-move.

[grayghost06]

When the 3rd and 4th place teams in the CAA ( or Gateway & Southern) are battling for the same spot in the playoffs because another auto quailifier has reduced the at large bids- will we still like this news ? Right now I feel that any auto qualifier probably deserves in. Will I feel the same when the NEC and Big South gain admittance?. Right now I'd say no, but this could change as their programs improve.

[UAalum72]

The next (very important) step - not to be discounted here - is to have a team that can qualify as an at-large team to the FCS playoffs.
I realize now that the Patriot League forbade its teams to enter the playoff for almost ten years, but still, when it did let them enter, did the NCAA require them to win an at-large bid first, or did they just say, in effect "You want in? Well, two of your teams made the playoffs fifteen years ago. OK, you're in!"

[DFW HOYA]

"Our plan will require all the teams to have at least six teams with at least 50 equivalencies, or spend more than $2 Million on their football teams, to qualify for an autobid into the playoffs. Of course, you can still play yourself into the playoffs like Cal Poly has by playing real well and getting at at-large". No news here.

How many does the PL have at the 50 level...five?

[UAalum72]

How many does the PL have at the 50 level...five?
No doubt that's why the $2 million level, to make sure the PL qualifies. Of course, that's just a 'hypothetical' requirement.

[aceinthehole]

But UA hit the point. Until the NCAA formaly declares a criteria for AQ bids (which they hasn't since 1978), this is a big step becasue the NCAA has PUBLICY STATED that they will look at playoff expansion and an additional AQ for the NEC. What are us NEC fans missing in this statement? Sorry, but I do think this is big news, because its not just messageboard chatter, but actual reports from well placed souces.

Second, getting at at-large is NOT a requirement, and why shoud it be? How many Big South teams have got an at-large bid? Also, as the article stated MONMOUTH was CONSIDERED for an at-large this year, a NEC first! What stated criteria did the PL meet, when they asked for an AQ?

I know the NEC still has work to do, but everyone here likes to raise the invisable bar and create excuses why the NEC shoud be left out. You know, I'm sure the coaches from Colgate, Fordham, Georgia Southern, Delaware, and Lehigh think the NEC plays some damn good football and shoudn't be left out, and I'm bet they know more about the sport than 90% of the peope on this board.

[youwouldno]

NEC teams already are eligible for the playoffs. The problem with expanding the playoffs is that it means a watered down field. Compared to NCAA basketball an expanded FCS tourney would actually be easier to get into.

[danefan]

do you really think expanding the field to let in the NEC champ will water-down the field? If the NEC had an AQ this year, the same 16 teams would have gotten in, plus Monmouth. How is that watered down? I would agree with you if it required an expansion to 32 teams, but it doesn't. All it requires is an expansion to 17 or 18 teams.

If anything, it expands the appeal of the championship to markets not currently touched. Plus an AQ will have a great effect on recruiting for the NEC. With scholarships and an AQ the choice between CAA and NEC teams gets tougher and tougher for most high school kids. Maybe that's why everyone is so against this.......hmmm

[youwouldno]

do you really think expanding the field to let in the NEC champ will water-down the field? If the NEC had an AQ this year, the same 16 teams would have gotten in, plus Monmouth. How is that watered down? I would agree with you if it required an expansion to 32 teams, but it doesn't. All it requires is an expansion to 17 or 18 teams.

If anything, it expands the appeal of the championship to markets not currently touched. Plus an AQ will have a great effect on recruiting for the NEC. With scholarships and an AQ the choice between CAA and NEC teams gets tougher and tougher for most high school kids. Maybe that's why everyone is so against this.......hmmm

I thought there were NCAA rules that would prohibit a 17 team field (having to do with the ratio between autobids and at large bids)?

If not then I guess I would think about it. But I'm not convinced even then. The NEC has beaten a few big name teams having down seasons. Great.

[aceinthehole]

do you really think expanding the field to let in the NEC champ will water-down the field? If the NEC had an AQ this year, the same 16 teams would have gotten in, plus Monmouth. How is that watered down? I would agree with you if it required an expansion to 32 teams, but it doesn't. All it requires is an expansion to 17 or 18 teams.

If anything, it expands the appeal of the championship to markets not currently touched. Plus an AQ will have a great effect on recruiting for the NEC. With scholarships and an AQ the choice between CAA and NEC teams gets tougher and tougher for most high school kids. Maybe that's why everyone is so against this.......hmmm

If they grant the NEC AQ, they have to add an at-large. For every AQ they add they must add at least 1 at-large. Remember, at least half the field must be reserved for at-large bids.

However, you point remains. Would the playoffs been "waterdown" by adding Monmouth and 1 more at-large? I don't think so.

[aceinthehole]

NEC teams already are eligible for the playoffs. The problem with expanding the playoffs is that it means a watered down field. Compared to NCAA basketball an expanded FCS tourney would actually be easier to get into.

That's shows the bias you (and too many others) have about the playoffs. You fear change, and have no rational reson to exclude an ELIGIBLE CONFERENCE who ask to join!

[youwouldno]

That's shows the bias you (and too many others) have about the playoffs. You fear change, and have no rational reson to exclude an ELIGIBLE CONFERENCE who ask to join!

It's not fearing change. It's a desire for competitive games. The NEC can't compete with the FCS elite at this point.

[UAalum72]

It's not fearing change. It's a desire for competitive games. The NEC can't compete with the FCS elite at this point.
And when was the last time the current OVC teams could compete with the FCS elite in the playoffs? Or the MEAC? And the OVC even got an at-large last year, in addition to its autobid-for-life, and still didn't get a win.

[youwouldno]

And when was the last time the current OVC teams could compete with the FCS elite in the playoffs? Or the MEAC? And the OVC even got an at-large last year, in addition to its autobid-for-life, and still didn't get a win.

I agree the MEAC and OVC have not performed. But that's not an argument in favor of the NEC unless the NEC is better than one of those conference, in which case they should take an existing autobid.

[colgate13]

This is good news! I see the future as more AQs and an increased playoff field.

[Calif_Colonial]

This is good news to me! I believe that the NEC will continue to add more scholly's for football in the coming years. Title IX is always a concern, however, I know that Robert Morris recieved a B+ rating for women's participation in NCAA Div I sports. I will be pulling for all NEC's members in their OOC's games. xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

How many does the PL have at the 50 level...five?


I think it is six. GU has not yet reached this level but is getting there.

[Go...gate]

I realize now that the Patriot League forbade its teams to enter the playoff for almost ten years, but still, when it did let them enter, did the NCAA require them to win an at-large bid first, or did they just say, in effect "You want in? Well, two of your teams made the playoffs fifteen years ago. OK, you're in!"


No disrespect intended, but I'm afraid you are not familiar with what really happened. The PL's securing of a play-off bid was terribly difficult.

The PL (represented by Connie Hurlbut [NCAA's first D-I Commissioner]), Bro Adams (Bucknell President) and, later, Lehigh's President (the one that followed Peter Likens), Frank McLaughlin of Fordham and Mark Murphy of Colgate) went to the NCAA in 1995, hat in hand, and they were disinclined to give us a playoff bid, in 1996 or at any time. The high-handed consensus of the playoff committee membership at the time was that the PL was such a crappy FB conference that we might not be able to ever win a play-off game - thus it was a waste of time and a detriment to other programs to give us an auto-bid. After blowing us off, they then suggested a "play-in" game between us and the Ivy League FB champion (which had utterly dominated us in the 1990's) for a playoff bid, which they knew to be a non-starter due to the Ivy's stance on post-season games.

To make matters worse, the Ivy League was not happy with us, as they considered what we did to be a break in Ivy-Patriot solidarity, so we were really out there on our own. The good news is that the PL got the bid in 1997 and has clearly proven that the NCAA was moss-backed and short-sighted.

It is because of the PL's distasteful experience in getting an AQ playoff bid that I believe that the NEC, Big South, PFL and other conferences should be allowed AQ's , even if it involves increasing the playoff field to 20 and giving the first four seeds a First-Round bye. I would never want other quality schools to have to go through what the PL had to experience. The only limitation I would suggest would be the requirement of a winning record.

[Flyer Gramps]

This second year of the Gridiron Classic will have the NEC winner visiting the Pioneer League champion. Don't worry, you won't have to go all the way to San Diego.

I admit to being new today, so to try for a good start, I checked for you guys and Welcome Field at University of Dayton is clear that day for the game! xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

Welcome, Flyer Gramps!! :)

[UAalum72]

The PL (represented by Connie Hurlbut [NCAA's first D-I Commissioner]), Bro Adams (Bucknell President) and, later, Lehigh's President (the one that followed Peter Likens), Frank McLaughlin of Fordham and Mark Murphy of Colgate) went to the NCAA in 1995, hat in hand, and they were disinclined to give us a playoff bid, in 1996 or at any time. The high-handed consensus of the playoff committee membership at the time was that the PL was such a crappy FB conference that we might not be able to ever win a play-off game - thus it was a waste of time and a detriment to other programs to give us an auto-bid. After blowing us off, they then suggested a "play-in" game between us and the Ivy League FB champion (which had utterly dominated us in the 1990's) for a playoff bid, which they knew to be a non-starter due to the Ivy's stance on post-season games.

To make matters worse, the Ivy League was not happy with us, as they considered what we did to be a break in Ivy-Patriot solidarity, so we were really out there on our own. The good news is that the PL got the bid in 1997 and has clearly proven that the NCAA was moss-backed and short-sighted.
Thanks for the history.

1) Sounds very familiar. So nothing's changed regarding the O.G.'s attitude toward new conferences. Doesn't surprise me a bit. I didn't really think it was as simple or easy as 'OK, you're in'.

2) I'll take that as a NO, the Patriot League didn't earn an at-large bid before being awarded an auto. Just checking.

[Go...gate]

Thanks for the history.

1) Sounds very familiar. So nothing's changed regarding the O.G.'s attitude toward new conferences. Doesn't surprise me a bit. I didn't really think it was as simple or easy as 'OK, you're in'.

2) I'll take that as a NO, the Patriot League didn't earn an at-large bid before being awarded an auto. Just checking.

No. We never earned an at-large bid, though attempts were made. Head Coach Mark Duffner of Holy Cross, having been informally contacted about post-season play in 1987 and 1991 (HC was #1 in the poll in '87 and, AIR, #4 in '91), approached HC's leadership a couple of times to seek permission to apply for a waiver of the no-playoff policy and was denied.

[danefan]

the NEC is still a very weak conf.

Besides last year...that is true.
Remember though, the 35 rides will start to effect (or affect...I never get that one right) the level of play this year and even more so next year. Then it's going to be very hard to argue the NEC is weaker than other conferences out there. It may not be the CAA or Gateway, but in two years it will be on the same level as the Patriot, Ivy, OVC and others....Of course that is pure speculation and only my opinion.:D

[rmutv]

the NEC is still a very weak conf.

Results wise the past couple years, that's an astute observation.

But those were the years that the scholarships weren't taking full effect.

Now you have scholarship level players becoming starters, and higher level recruits coming in.

I hate to continuously beat the same drum regarding just one player on the Robert Morris roster as a case study, but it fits. Myles Russ is an incoming freshman from West Boca Raton High School in Florida. West Boca is a 6-A high school, the largest classification in the state. Russ was the Big School offensive player of the year, led the classification in rushing with over 1,700 yards.

He does not come to Robert Morris if Joe Walton doesn't dangle a scholarship and the promise of instant playing time at a depleted running back spot.

Russ passed up the likes of Richmond (no chance to play immediately) and Pitt (no scholarship) to play at Robert Morris.

Now, is there any guarantee that Russ does well at the college level? Of course not. He could have academic troubles (unlikely with a 3.0+ GPA in high school). He could hate Robert Morris. He could get hurt. He could be too small for the college game (only 5'9).

But Robert Morris doesn't get that caliber of a high school athlete, potential deficiencies aside, if they don't have scholarships to offer. Don't knock the NEC for being a weaker conference until we see how the scholarship level players perform in the conference.

[ngineer]

Excellent news for the NEC..With the way some of their teams have performed the past couple years, and with the schollies kicking in, the decision makes sense.

[colgate13]

I think Go...gate's excellence summary shows why so many PL fans are excited about this development and why generally we support inclusion rather than exclusion. We've played the bastard child for some time (and in some ways still do) and still have to defend our AQ from time to time when Conference X's 3rd or 4th team is denied.

Personally, I think the NEC will represent themselves just fine the very first year they get in, which hopefully sounds like 2008.

[Calif_Colonial]

This second year of the Gridiron Classic will have the NEC winner visiting the Pioneer League champion. Don't worry, you won't have to go all the way to San Diego.

I admit to being new today, so to try for a good start, I checked for you guys and Welcome Field at University of Dayton is clear that day for the game! xthumbsupx

Welcome aboard, Flyer Gramps, The Flyers and Robert Morris' Colonials have had some great games over the years and we respect the Flyers very much. We hope to keep playing at Welcome and your Flyers coming to Joe Walton Stadium for home and home series. There is one thing I want you to make happen at Welcome Stadium, get rid of the Astro Turf and put in some "new" Field Turf or Sportexe playing surface! xthumbsupx

[BDKJMU]

No disrespect intended, but I'm afraid you are not familiar with what really happened. The PL's securing of a play-off bid was terribly difficult.

The PL (represented by Connie Hurlbut [NCAA's first D-I Commissioner]), Bro Adams (Bucknell President) and, later, Lehigh's President (the one that followed Peter Likens), Frank McLaughlin of Fordham and Mark Murphy of Colgate) went to the NCAA in 1995, hat in hand, and they were disinclined to give us a playoff bid, in 1996 or at any time. The high-handed consensus of the playoff committee membership at the time was that the PL was such a crappy FB conference that we might not be able to ever win a play-off game - thus it was a waste of time and a detriment to other programs to give us an auto-bid. After blowing us off, they then suggested a "play-in" game between us and the Ivy League FB champion (which had utterly dominated us in the 1990's) for a playoff bid, which they knew to be a non-starter due to the Ivy's stance on post-season games.

To make matters worse, the Ivy League was not happy with us, as they considered what we did to be a break in Ivy-Patriot solidarity, so we were really out there on our own. The good news is that the PL got the bid in 1997 and has clearly proven that the NCAA was moss-backed and short-sighted.

It is because of the PL's distasteful experience in getting an AQ playoff bid that I believe that the NEC, Big South, PFL and other conferences should be allowed AQ's , even if it involves increasing the playoff field to 20 and giving the first four seeds a First-Round bye. I would never want other quality schools to have to go through what the PL had to experience. The only limitation I would suggest would be the requirement of a winning record.

I would make the requirement at least 7 Div I wins on an 11 game schedule. IMHO I think it should even be 8. Then if one of those teams went say 5-2 in conference and won it on a tiebreaker and say 1-3 OOC to finish 6-5 wouldn't get an autobid. Yes, I know that Lafayette got in at 6-5 last year with a weak OOC schedule. I don't think any team, I don't care if its the CAA (well, that would be almost impossible in a 12 team conference), Southern, Gateway, any conference should ever get in at 6-5. I think thats one requirement the NCAA should have inserted long ago.

[Go...gate]

I would make the requirement at least 7 Div I wins on an 11 game schedule. IMHO I think it should even be 8. Then if one of those teams went say 5-2 in conference and won it on a tiebreaker and say 1-3 OOC to finish 6-5 wouldn't get an autobid. Yes, I know that Lafayette got in at 6-5 last year with a weak OOC schedule. I don't think any team, I don't care if its the CAA (well, that would be almost impossible in a 12 team conference), Southern, Gateway, any conference should ever get in at 6-5. I think thats one requirement the NCAA should have inserted long ago.

Certainly a very fair requirement, though some of my Lafayette friends might have their own thoughts. :)

[Flyer Gramps]

Welcome aboard, Flyer Gramps, The Flyers and Robert Morris' Colonials have had some great games over the years and we respect the Flyers very much. We hope to keep playing at Welcome and your Flyers coming to Joe Walton Stadium for home and home series. There is one thing I want you to make happen at Welcome Stadium, get rid of the Astro Turf and put in some "new" Field Turf or Sportexe playing surface! xthumbsupx

O.K. my dear Colonial, this year the Flyers bus to RMU and the Astro surface remains in Dayton. It was supposed to change. Last years recruits were told it would be field turf. But Welcome Stadium is owned by the Dayton Public School system and the money is coming from - get this- a State spending bill which will be too late for 2007. We'll try to be ready for your next drive down to the Birthplace of Flight...xsmiley_wix

[aceinthehole]

I think Go...gate's excellence summary shows why so many PL fans are excited about this development and why generally we support inclusion rather than exclusion. We've played the bastard child for some time (and in some ways still do) and still have to defend our AQ from time to time when Conference X's 3rd or 4th team is denied.

Personally, I think the NEC will represent themselves just fine the very first year they get in, which hopefully sounds like 2008.

Thanks, I wish more people would be open like you (and most PL fans). I'm pretty sure we're only going to get a PIG and have to "earn our way" into the bracket, but I don't mind. Give us a shot! After a year or two we will represent FCS with class. Like the PL we are certainly playing underdog, but that's what makes this exciting.

I personally have a ton of respect for the PL and most of its fans. The NEC has made recently challanged the top PL teams and they've responded with class and not excuses. Its would easy to say CCSU, Albany, and Monmouth's wins were a fluke, joke, or lucky. But most peole see the trend that the quality of the NEC is nothing like it was even 5 years ago. As RMU stated, even they are recruiting against CAA or PL level teams. This is great news.

[aceinthehole]

It's not fearing change. It's a desire for competitive games. The NEC can't compete with the FCS elite at this point.

WRONG! Please back up that with some facts. How well does the MEAC, OVC, and PL stack up against the "elite?"

For example, here's the non-conference opponents to win AT the following place in the last 4 years:

Colgate - Monmouth and Princeton (2006); CCSU (2005)
Delaware - Albany (2006)
Lehigh - Albany, Princeton, and Harvard (2006); Villanova (2004); Penn (2003)
Georgia Southern - CCSU and North Dakota St. (2006); McNeese St (2005)

I think these NEC teams are in pretty good company.

[Sir William]

[QUOTE=aceinthehole;595366]
Delaware - Albany (2006)
[Georgia Southern - CCSU (2006)[QUOTE]

Let's be honest. 2006 was a big time down year for Delaware and GaSouthern. Those two programs are "elite", but not in 2006.

Not gonna get into a debate on this issue, b/c quite frankly, there is nothing to debate. I'm happy for the NEC if they do get an auto-bid, but expect the first round of the playoffs to be very, very, very, very rough.

Did I mention that the first round would be very rough for the NEC champ? xsmiley_wix

[YoUDeeMan]

[QUOTE=aceinthehole;595366]
Delaware - Albany (2006)
[Georgia Southern - CCSU (2006)[QUOTE]

Let's be honest. 2006 was a big time down year for Delaware and GaSouthern. Those two programs are "elite", but not in 2006.

Not gonna get into a debate on this issue, b/c quite frankly, there is nothing to debate. I'm happy for the NEC if they do get an auto-bid, but expect the first round of the playoffs to be very, very, very, very rough.

Did I mention that the first round would be very rough for the NEC champ? xsmiley_wix

Interesting potential trickel down effect.

The NEC champ will most likely play the CAA champ or PL champ. If it ends up geographically being the PL champ, then the CAA champ (and the other CAA conference qualifiers) will most likely be playing more Gateway or SoCon teams in the first round. xnodx xwhistlex

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

All the more reason to seed 8+ teams!

[andy7171]

I have a lot of respect for the top three teams in the NEC, being Albany, Monmouth and CCSU. I don't know too much about RMU. But the rest of the conference is suspect. The OOC games the NEC chooses to play are on the weak side, which concerns me. When the scholarship upgrades come into play and the competivness increases, I would hope the scheduling would move up as well. If that happens, I have no problem with a AQ for the NEC.

[aceinthehole]

[QUOTE=aceinthehole;595366]
Delaware - Albany (2006)
[Georgia Southern - CCSU (2006)[QUOTE]

Let's be honest. 2006 was a big time down year for Delaware and GaSouthern. Those two programs are "elite", but not in 2006.

Not gonna get into a debate on this issue, b/c quite frankly, there is nothing to debate. I'm happy for the NEC if they do get an auto-bid, but expect the first round of the playoffs to be very, very, very, very rough.

Did I mention that the first round would be very rough for the NEC champ? xsmiley_wix

Thanks, I agree with you that both teams were having a "down" year. But is that an excuse? Is that the only "down" year they've had recently?

Delaware still went 4-5 in the CAA. While not a great year by any standards, let's not prentend they were a 1-11 team. Their last losing season was in 2001 and in that year they still only lost a total of 3 games at home. Even in "down" years the Hens are a very good home team.

Georgia Southern certainly had a very rough year under a new coach. But they were still good enough to beat Coastal Carolina (a playoff team) at home! Why isn't it a "bad loss" for the Chants?

How about Colgate and Lehigh? Those are two respected programs who have made a the playoffs very recently. Do we have to wait and see ehat happens this year at Montana, at Maine, at Towson, at Delaware?

My point is everytime the NEC does what was "asked" by those on this board, its not enough. We have to play ALL our "elite" teams on the road. Its an uphill battle for respect here, but we are making great progress. I'm not looking for someone to pronounce that the NEC has achived equality, but let's admit we have arrived on the scene and shows sings of being a competaive member of the FCS family, just like the PL and others.

Finally, I 100% agree the playoffs will be a HUGE challange! That's what we are looking for - the opportunity for the upset. Even if it take a 2 or 3 years to win a game, so what? But when we do win, someone will call it a fluke, lucky, or an easy matchup. In the end all we get is excuses.

[henfan]

While I don't have issue with the NEC getting an auto-bid in principle, I wonder about the overall negative effect on the playoffs and regular season scheduling. I'm not a huge fan awarding byes because of the unfair competitive advantages they afford. I'd also hate to see the loss of regular season byes due to playoff expansion. A 5-week, 18 or 20 team playoff would be disasterous for the FCS, I think. Whenever your post-season runs 1/3 the length of your regular season, you're going to have issues. But I'm reserving judgement until I see what plan the NCAA comes up with.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Everyone is still missing the point. All that has happened is that the FCS committee has to spell out their requirements for what a conference would NEED TO DO in order to get an autobid. This is very far from actually GETTING an autobid, especially when you consider that members of the FCS committee are on the record as wanting qualifications on the teams that qualify for the playoffs. Right or wrong, that is a hurdle that still exists, and there is zero evidence to indicate that anything has changed on that front. All the talk about expanded playoffs at this point seem more like wishful thinking than anything really concrete.

Does that mean it's not a step forward for possible NEC inclusion in the playoffs? Well, it is a first step, but there's a long way to go here.

Patriot League fans may have solidarity with NEC teams about playoff inclusion, but I doubt that good will would continue if the PL champ is playing the NEC champ every year in a PIG. Almost certainly that would have happened last year with Lafayette, and the same issues with Patriot League schools ("Well, they only beat Harvard, Yale and Princeton out-of-conference, whereas Eastern Illinois got blown out by two FBS teams by less than the Vegas line!") will once again be used as fodder as to why they should be in a PIG instead of getting a first-round bye.

[DetroitFlyer]

The most obvious PIG is the current Gridiron Classic. Do you think the decision to extend the game for two more years was by chance? I have a feeling that the NEC is agreeing to the GIC in order to "offer" the Old Guard a fairly easy way to have a PIG without ruffling too many Old Guard feathers.... Stay tuned!

[Go...gate]

[QUOTE=aceinthehole;595366]
Delaware - Albany (2006)
[Georgia Southern - CCSU (2006)[QUOTE]

Let's be honest. 2006 was a big time down year for Delaware and GaSouthern. Those two programs are "elite", but not in 2006.

Not gonna get into a debate on this issue, b/c quite frankly, there is nothing to debate. I'm happy for the NEC if they do get an auto-bid, but expect the first round of the playoffs to be very, very, very, very rough.

Did I mention that the first round would be very rough for the NEC champ? xsmiley_wix

Right, but bottom line is 30 scholarships vs. 63 scholarships and 63 scholarships lost. Hard to ignore this.

[aceinthehole]

Andy - good point. CCSU, Albany, and Monmouth have been the class of the NEC, and the other programs are precieved to be weak (which is probably true), but there are signs of hope.

Sacred Heart recently played at Holy Cross and hosted Lafayette. They did not win, but played decent for a half. They have a way to go, but they are willing to step up in class.

Robert Morris, led by ex-Jets HC Joe Walton built a non-scholly power. He is now slowly stepping up the recruiting and competition in Western PA. This year they will host VMI, a first for the Colonials against a full scholly team! They could give the Keydets a good game this year, I'm watching the results of this one closely.

Even NEC cellar-dwellar St. Francis PA is willing to face increased competition. Last year they faced Delaware State and this year they will travel to Liberty. They are a bad NEC team, but at least they are trying to improve the program.

----
Henfan - very good points. I'm agree we have to wait and see what the NCAA proposes. I'd like to remain an optomist, but there are some concerns that the committe must address. It not an easy task, but IMO it can be done in a way that will satisfy almost all FCS members.

----
LFN - Don't you think getting the NCAA to spell out its criteria for an AQ is a big deal? You're right it doesn't assure the NEC a spot and we have some work to do. I want us to increase schollys, set minimum scheduling requirements, and win more non-conference games, but in the meantime this is big. This is big news for the Big South too! Their press releases about Stony Brook indicated the BS would be eligible to qualify for an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs beginning in 2010. This is important for them too. What assurances did they have of actually getting the AQ - NONE!

I do agree the NCAA may draft difficult standards for the NEC to achive, but at least it applies to evryone in FCS. If we can't meet the standards, fine we don't deserve an AQ. All we ask is the standard is equitible and applied to everyone. Don't worry, I doubt very highly the PL will be regulated to a PIG. That "honor" will likely fall to the NEC and last at-large and I bet we still have to play that game on the road!

[BDKJMU]

WRONG! Please back up that with some facts. How well does the MEAC, OVC, and PL stack up against the "elite?"

For example, here's the non-conference opponents to win AT the following place in the last 4 years:

Colgate - Monmouth and Princeton (2006); CCSU (2005)
Delaware - Albany (2006)
Lehigh - Albany, Princeton, and Harvard (2006); Villanova (2004); Penn (2003)
Georgia Southern - CCSU and North Dakota St. (2006); McNeese St (2005)

I think these NEC teams are in pretty good company.

IMHO 4 of the 8 autobid conferences are "elite"- CAA, Southern, Gateway, and Big Sky. Colgate & Lehigh are the elite of the PL, but I wouldn't peg the PL as an "elite" conference. By my count since they've gotten an autobid for the playoffs 97'-06' they're 5-14 (2-13 outside of 03' when Colgate made their playoff run)


06' NEC versus teams from elite conferences:
-Albany over UD (5-6)-very down yr-worst season since 01'
-CCSU over GSU (3-8)-very down yr-worst season in decades?

Plus in 06':
-Monmouth win over a Colgate team that was 4-7-a very down year for them
-Albany over a Lehigh team that was 6-5 but was only 1-4 on a relatively weak OOC schedule

05' -CCSU over Colgate (8-4) who was a 1st round loss playoffs 55-21
UNH. So far biggest OOC win for an NEC team.

Now if/when an NEC beats a team from one of the elite conferences that finishes the season with 7 or more wins (like if Albany knocks off Montana this season) that will be a different story. The NEC isn't deserving of an autobid yet IMHO. Maybe in a few years.

[BDKJMU]

[QUOTE=Sir William;595384][QUOTE=aceinthehole;595366]
Delaware - Albany (2006)
[Georgia Southern - CCSU (2006)

Thanks, I agree with you that both teams were having a "down" year. But is that an excuse? Is that the only "down" year they've had recently?

Delaware still went 4-5 in the CAA. While not a great year by any standards, let's not prentend they were a 1-11 team. Their last losing season was in 2001 and in that year they still only lost a total of 3 games at home. Even in "down" years the Hens are a very good home team.

Georgia Southern certainly had a very rough year under a new coach. But they were still good enough to beat Coastal Carolina (a playoff team) at home! Why isn't it a "bad loss" for the Chants?

How about Colgate and Lehigh? Those are two respected programs who have made a the playoffs very recently. Do we have to wait and see ehat happens this year at Montana, at Maine, at Towson, at Delaware?

My point is everytime the NEC does what was "asked" by those on this board, its not enough. We have to play ALL our "elite" teams on the road. Its an uphill battle for respect here, but we are making great progress. I'm not looking for someone to pronounce that the NEC has achived equality, but let's admit we have arrived on the scene and shows sings of being a competaive member of the FCS family, just like the PL and others.

Finally, I 100% agree the playoffs will be a HUGE challange! That's what we are looking for - the opportunity for the upset. Even if it take a 2 or 3 years to win a game, so what? But when we do win, someone will call it a fluke, lucky, or an easy matchup. In the end all we get is excuses.

Delaware was 3-5 in the CAA.

[aceinthehole]

[QUOTE=aceinthehole;595411][QUOTE=Sir William;595384]

Delaware was 3-5 in the CAA.

OK, I guess one of those games was technically a non-conference matchup.

I'll rephrase: "Delaware still went 4-5 vs. CAA teams, beating URI, Hofstra, Richmond, and William and Mary."

But your still making EXCUSES! These are NEC teams that had less than 30 schollys that beat fully-funded teams from "power conferences" on the road.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN - Don't you think getting the NCAA to spell out its criteria for an AQ is a big deal? You're right it doesn't assure the NEC a spot and we have some work to do. I want us to increase schollys, set minimum scheduling requirements, and win more non-conference games, but in the meantime this is big. This is big news for the Big South too! Their press releases about Stony Brook indicated the BS would be eligible to qualify for an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs beginning in 2010. This is important for them too. What assurances did they have of actually getting the AQ - NONE!

I do agree the NCAA may draft difficult standards for the NEC to achive, but at least it applies to evryone in FCS. If we can't meet the standards, fine we don't deserve an AQ. All we ask is the standard is equitible and applied to everyone. Don't worry, I doubt very highly the PL will be regulated to a PIG. That "honor" will likely fall to the NEC and last at-large and I bet we still have to play that game on the road!

In ways, the Big South has a better case due to Coastal's qualification for an at-large bid last year, done by scheduling top teams and beating them over the course of two years. Not to take away the NEC's wins last year; they made a huge step last year having three different teams win against (historically) some of the best teams in the Patriot League, CAA, and SoCon.

To me there is a bit more hope today than yesterday for a future AQ for the NEC, true. But it's hardly the "big news", IMO, that people are saying.

Also, a NEC team could still qualify for the FCS playoffs this year if they win. If Albany goes 11-0 this year, they're not going to the Gridiron Classic - they're an at-large.

Along with any PIG, though, opens the old can of worms about moving the date of the championship game and shortening the season if you expand the field beyond 16, or taking AQ's away from conferences - both solutions that are awful hard to find solutions for.

These are real issues that are not resolved by asking the FCS committee to "clarify" their criteria.

[downbythebeach]

"Well, they only beat Harvard, Yale and Princeton out-of-conference, whereas Eastern Illinois got blown out by two FBS teams by less than the Vegas line!") will once again be used as fodder as to why they should be in a PIG instead of getting a first-round bye.

I agree with you there, that way of thinking is used too much on here.

A loss to a FBS>A FCS win ??????????????????

[BDKJMU]

I agree with you there, that way of thinking is used too much on here.

A loss to a FBS>A FCS win ??????????????????

In general, a win over a scholly FCS>non scholly FCS. And yes, a loss to an FBS>a non scholly FCS win IMHO. At least it shows you're not afraid to schedule an FBS every year or every other year, which is what teams from the elite FCS conferences do.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In general, a win over a scholly FCS>non scholly FCS. And yes, a loss to an FBS>a non scholly FCS win IMHO. At least it shows you're not afraid to schedule an FBS every year or every other year, which is what teams from the elite FCS conferences do.

But a WIN against a nationally-ranked Princeton, Harvard or Yale should have as much weight as beating, say a nationally-ranked Delaware or Georgia Southern, and certainly more than LOSING to an FBS team. In practice, that frequently doesn't happen.

Even then the Ivies are consistently underrated in the national rankings. Yale has a team this year that IMO could beat about half the Top 25 - including one of the best backs in the entire subdivision in RB Mike McLeod, and one of the best LBs in Bobby Abare, and both are JUNIORS - yet they don't have a single player on the CSN preseason team. A win over Yale this year without a doubt will be something special - certainly better than a win over a middling MAC, WAC or Sun Belt team. And certainly better than a LOSS against such a team.

[andy7171]

[QUOTE=BDKJMU;595459][QUOTE=aceinthehole;595411]

OK, I guess one of those games was technically a non-conference matchup.

I'll rephrase: "Delaware still went 4-5 vs. CAA teams, beating URI, Hofstra, Richmond, and William and Mary."

But your still making EXCUSES! These are NEC teams that had less than 30 schollys that beat fully-funded teams from "power conferences" on the road.
Hold up. Why is Delaware playing a CAA school as an OOC game?

I agree, a "power conference" team, regardless of how good or bad the team is SHOULD be able to beat a non-scholarship or limited scholarship team.

[henfan]

Don't you think getting the NCAA to spell out its criteria for an AQ is a big deal?

Clarity and more defined/transparent playoff selection processes can never be bad things, IMO.xthumbsupx

[andy7171]

Bobby Abare
As an aside, is this guy any relation to Bobby Hebert of the NO Saints and Atlanta Falcons fame? :D

[henfan]

Hold up. Why is Delaware playing a CAA school as an OOC game?

The OOC opponent agreed to come to Delaware Stadium for a guarantee outside of the regular conference schedule, which is dictated and determined by the CAA. Several of UD's conference mates have agreed to noncon deals in the past including Hofstra, UNH, and UMass.

[BDKJMU]

But a WIN against a nationally-ranked Princeton, Harvard or Yale should have as much weight as beating, say a nationally-ranked Delaware or Georgia Southern, and certainly more than LOSING to an FBS team. In practice, that frequently doesn't happen.

Even then the Ivies are consistently underrated in the national rankings. Yale has a team this year that IMO could beat about half the Top 25 - including one of the best backs in the entire subdivision in RB Mike McLeod, and one of the best LBs in Bobby Abare, and both are JUNIORS - yet they don't have a single player on the CSN preseason team. A win over Yale this year without a doubt will be something special - certainly better than a win over a middling MAC, WAC or Sun Belt team. And certainly better than a LOSS against such a team.

Yeah, but the Ivies don't schedule OOC enough from the IAA elite conferences (CAA, Southern, Gateway, Big Sky) or ever schedule (that I'm aware of) IAs, or allow their teams to play in the playoffs (I guess they think they're too high and mighty for that) for you to be to back up that claim that they are consistently underrated. If they want more respect, then they need to improve their OOC scheduling and allow their teams in the playoffs.

[andy7171]

Yeah, but the Ivies don't schedule OOC enough from the IAA elite conferences (CAA, Southern, Gateway, Big Sky) or ever schedule (that I'm aware of) IAs, or allow their teams to play in the playoffs (I guess they think they're too high and mighty for that) for you to be to back up that claim that they are consistently underrated. If they want more respect, then they need to improve their OOC scheduling and allow their teams in the playoffs.
Well to be fair, the Ivies seem to be married to the Patriot League for OOC scheduling, but the next most popular OOC schedule mate would be the CAA. With only 2 OOC games being against MAAC and PFL being played. So its not like they are scheduling down to play D.II teams. They just like playing teams in the Northeast, all opponents are FCS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As an aside, is this guy any relation to Bobby Hebert of the NO Saints and Atlanta Falcons fame? :D

No relation to the lame-duck-throwing pass acuracy machine that I loved/hated as a Saints fan. :D He has a twin brother as well that is starting, I think, at safety for the Elis.

Pronounced the same, though!

[Go...gate]

Yeah, but the Ivies don't schedule OOC enough from the IAA elite conferences (CAA, Southern, Gateway, Big Sky) or ever schedule (that I'm aware of) IAs, or allow their teams to play in the playoffs (I guess they think they're too high and mighty for that) for you to be to back up that claim that they are consistently underrated. If they want more respect, then they need to improve their OOC scheduling and allow their teams in the playoffs.

You are about to see this, as, among others, Penn has added Villanova, Princeton has added Hampton and Citadel and Harvard has added Northeastern to their schedules. I predict you will see more of this in the future. IMHO, the strength of the Ivy teams is perennially underrated.

[andy7171]

You are about to see this, as, among others, Penn has added Villanova, Princeton has added Hampton and Citadel and Harvard has added Northeastern to their schedules. I predict you will see more of this in the future. IMHO, the strength of the Ivy teams is perennially underrated.
I love the idea of Ivy vs MEAC. I would even try to go see one or two! If for only to see the fans interact.

[Sir William]

What never ceases to amaze me is how easily-provoked some folks become, even when kind words are being extended about their conference or team.

I'm going to try and communicate my view again: if the NEC or Big South or anybody else is awarded an autobid, then I congratulate them and am happy for their teams. However, I fully expect them to have many more difficult days in the first round than pleasant days in the first round. Not a put-down, just speaking from experience as a representative of an "elite" team from an "elite" conference.

The NEC had a banner year in 2006. They deserve congrats, and we give it. But the NEC will need to repeat that banner performance as a conference in 2007 before they get genuine "props" from the SoCon, CAA, Gateway, Big Sky, etc. Hope you do, but time will tell.

I was giddy over CCSU's win against GaSouthern for obvious reasons. But they caught GSU in a very down year (scholarship issue aside). Play GSU one week, App State the next, Furman two weeks after that, and end with a game against Wofford...and do it every year. Beat three of those four - heck, even two - on a consistent yearly basis, and you'll get nothing but my genuine praises.

This is not meant to be a provocation...just objective conversation based on years of competing against the Apps, GSUs, Woffords, etc with a quality FBS opponent on the schedule as well.

[aceinthehole]

What kills me about this thread is how easily-offended people can become, even when kind words are being extended about their conference or teams.

I'm going to try and communicate my view again: if the NEC or Big South or anybody else is awarded an autobid, then I congratulate them and am happy for their teams. However, I fully expect them to have many more difficult days in the first round than pleasant days in the first round. Not a put-down, just speaking from experience as a representative of an "elite" team from an "elite" conference.

The NEC had a banner year in 2006. They deserve congrats, and we give it. But the NEC will need to repeat that banner performance as a conference in 2007 before they get genuine "props" from the SoCon, CAA, Gateway, Big Sky, etc. Hope you do, but time will tell.

I was giddy over CCSU's win against GaSouthern for obvious reasons. But they caught GSU in a very down year (scholarship issue aside). Play GSU one week, App State the next, Furman two weeks after that, and end with a game against Wofford...and do it every year. Beat three of those four - heck, even two - on a consistent yearly basis, and you'll get nothing but my genuine praises.

This is not a putdown...just objective conversation based on years of competing against the Apps, GSUs, Woffords, etc with an quality FBS opponent on the schedule as well.


Hey, I thank you for the kinds words, and once again agree with you. The NEC needs a consistent performance on a years basis. We've done something nice, but more is expected. That all good to me!

If and when we get in the playoffs it will be a battle. Tough games against stronmg opponents. It will be difficult to win a PIG or 1st round game. Exactly!

I guess if the FCS is a tale of two types of conferences, the haves (CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, Gateway, Great West, etc.) and the have-nots (PL, MEAC, Ivy, SWAC, OVC, etc.) I'd like to think the NEC is now part of the latter and no longer thought of as the little non-scholly conference that can't compete in the "real" FCS. For me its baby steps, and it sound like you agree. We've joined the club, but have more work to do!

[Sir William]

Hey, I thank you for the kinds words, and once again agree with you. The NEC needs a consistent performance on a years basis. We've done something nice, but more is expected. That all good to me!

If and when we get in the playoffs it will be a battle. Tough games against stronmg opponents. It will be difficult to win a PIG or 1st round game. Exactly!

I guess if the FCS is a tale of two types of conferences, the haves (CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, Gateway, Great West, etc.) and the have-nots (PL, MEAC, Ivy, SWAC, OVC, etc.) I'd like to think the NEC is now part of the latter and no longer thought of as the little non-scholly conference that can't compete in the "real" FCS. For me its baby steps, and it sound like you agree. We've joined the club, but have more work to do!

Well said. And good luck to CCSU, Albany, et al, in 2007...unless you happen to meet the Paladins in the 1st round of the playoffs. :)