This Montana transfer sounds like a real winner [Archive]

youwouldno

July 14th, 2007, 04:38 PM

Yeah, I won't lie. This whole thing stresses me out a little bit too. Yeah his character seems like it's piss poor.

But let's be honest - this guy is a big time player. And I guarentee you that none of your fine FCS institutions would have turned him down. It's all a matter of what school he chose. You can preach to me all you want about "standards," but spare me.

I think you're wrong. I feel pretty confident Furman would have turned him down. Obviously that's hypothetical and I haven't asked the HC or anything. I think other programs would have too.

I actually don't have a huge problem with what Quinn said, because he was asked about the sanctions on Oklahoma, not his own punishment. I agree that taking away the team's wins in 2005 is retarded. The NCAA is one of the most vile institutions in this country. I took Quinn's comment to mean that he's moved on, more than anything else.

Go...gate

July 14th, 2007, 04:48 PM

I think you're wrong. I feel pretty confident Furman would have turned him down. Obviously that's hypothetical and I haven't asked the HC or anything. I think other programs would have too.

I actually don't have a huge problem with what Quinn said, because he was asked about the sanctions on Oklahoma, not his own punishment. I agree that taking away the team's wins in 2005 is retarded. The NCAA is one of the most vile institutions in this country. I took Quinn's comment to mean that he's moved on, more than anything else.

I believe all Patriot League schools would have turned him down.

MplsBison

July 14th, 2007, 04:52 PM

I doubt that Quinn would've gone somewhere that wouldn't give him any athletic aid without first examining his financial need.

aggie6thman

July 14th, 2007, 05:26 PM

DuckDuckGriz

July 14th, 2007, 06:06 PM

Cost vs. benefit. Winning games or giving the program a black eye, something that both Montana schools need to work on.

Why just the Montana schools? It happens all over.

I'm sure UC Davis fans want to forget their own Aaron Plunkett who was charged in 2004 of identity theft after getting away with over $400,000. Never mind the fact that the case started to unfold in 2003, nevertheless he continued to play in 10 games for the Aggies that season.

You can't predict the future. If he's a good athlete, no criminal record, you recruit him. Spare me the holier than thou preaching. This is Division I football and thats the way it is.

On another note, the convicted players you refer were not "I-A dropdowns" or potentials for wins vs defamation of character like you are instigating. Gatewood at Montana State was a JC transfer and Wilson and Freeman at Montana were recruited to the school out of high school, again with no prior criminal records.

Quinn is a character risk. BUT, I really would have a tough time believing that a team like UC Davis, who wants to begin to establish themselves in the FCS community would want to turn him down. Plain and simple.

GrizzlyEdd

July 14th, 2007, 06:47 PM

MplsBison

July 14th, 2007, 06:59 PM

You might as well not even talk to reporters.

They're just going to print what they want to hear to sell their stories.

BEAR

July 14th, 2007, 07:24 PM

He is skilled and a great pick up football wise for Montana. But the on the field play is only half the game. Let's see if he can get along with his teammates with that 800lb monkey on his shoulders...hopefully that remark (if said) isn't a prelude to future problems. xthumbsupx

GOKATS

July 14th, 2007, 07:34 PM

Why just the Montana schools? It happens all over.

I'm sure UC Davis fans want to forget their own Aaron Plunkett who was charged in 2004 of identity theft after getting away with over $400,000. Never mind the fact that the case started to unfold in 2003, nevertheless he continued to play in 10 games for the Aggies that season.

You can't predict the future. If he's a good athlete, no criminal record, you recruit him. Spare me the holier than thou preaching. This is Division I football and thats the way it is.

On another note, the convicted players you refer were not "I-A dropdowns" or potentials for wins vs defamation of character like you are instigating. Gatewood at Montana State was a JC transfer and Wilson and Freeman at Montana were recruited to the school out of high school, again with no prior criminal records.

Quinn is a character risk. BUT, I really would have a tough time believing that a team like UC Davis, who wants to begin to establish themselves in the FCS community would want to turn him down. Plain and simple.

Just a reminder that not one athlete from MSU or UM has been convicted of anything- charges have been pressed and in cases arrests made, but no athlete former or current at the time of charges has been to trial.

Tod

July 14th, 2007, 09:13 PM

I don't have a link to the interview, but I know JD has (or had) been angry that he was kicked off of the OU team when others, who actually victimized people, were allowed to stay on.

Certainly we can all understand that he broke the rules and has paid for it (what did he get out of it? Nothing. He has to even pay the money back), but there were, I seem to recall, some actual criminal (rather than rule-breaking) players at OU that did not get kicked off the team.

I think he's a bit angry about that. I don't blame him.

james_lawfirm

July 14th, 2007, 09:19 PM

Just a reminder that not one athlete from MSU or UM has been convicted of anything- charges have been pressed and in cases arrests made, but no athlete former or current at the time of charges has been to trial.

Oh, now THAT's a great measure of CHARACTER! Being innocent until proven guilty is the rule INSIDE a courtroom. On a football team, standards need to be a WHOLE lot higher.

DuckDuckGriz

July 14th, 2007, 09:23 PM

Oh, now THAT's a great measure of CHARACTER! Being innocent until proven guilty is the rule INSIDE a courtroom. On a football team, standards need to be a WHOLE lot higher.

Well, what if, say Wilson DID act in self-defense? How does that reflect on the standards of the team?

Tod

July 14th, 2007, 09:32 PM

Oh, now THAT's a great measure of CHARACTER! Being innocent until proven guilty is the rule INSIDE a courtroom. On a football team, standards need to be a WHOLE lot higher.

Since when is college football a separate entity of the United States of America? xconfusedx

james_lawfirm

July 14th, 2007, 09:35 PM

Well, what if, say Wilson DID act in self-defense? How does that reflect on the standards of the team?

Chill, dude. I was just replying to an earlier poster who tried to equate the standard for criminals in a courtroom to whether it was acceptable for an FCS football team to accept a player who had been booted from OK for some unknown reason (unknown at least to me). This guy may be the next Walter Payton for all I know.

If its any consolation, I was pulling hard for Montana, right up until the Nat'l Championship game. Good luck this year.

james_lawfirm

July 14th, 2007, 09:37 PM

Since when is college football a separate entity of the United States of America? xconfusedx

Say what?

MplsBison

July 14th, 2007, 09:40 PM

This guy may be the next Walter Payton for all I know.

Probably not. I think he's a center.

james_lawfirm

July 14th, 2007, 09:45 PM

Probably not. I think he's a center.

Yeah? Then the Payton award candidates need not worry. ;) :D :D :D xlolx

youwouldno

July 14th, 2007, 09:52 PM

Well, what if, say Wilson DID act in self-defense? How does that reflect on the standards of the team?

I've never heard of an instance where shooting someone dead on their own property was a sign of strong character.

DuckDuckGriz

July 14th, 2007, 09:58 PM

I've never heard of an instance where shooting someone dead on their own property was a sign of strong character.

Probably not.

My point is, plain and simple - how can something unforseeable like this reflect the standards of the university?

james_lawfirm

July 14th, 2007, 10:17 PM

Probably not.

My point is, plain and simple - how can something unforseeable like this reflect the standards of the university?

I agree with you that unforseeable shootings in self defense by football players do not reflect the standards of the university that the football player plays for.

However, I do think that one university's acceptance of such a player who was booted off another team, does say something about the accepting program. It says something about character. Either the program values character or it does not. This kid may be a choir boy - and since I am informed his position is at Center, I don't think he's the next Walter Payton.

If I were the HC at such a school, I would want to be absolutely certain that the entire team understood the situation with this kid. If the rules are the same for all, then that should be emphasized. But, the worst possible message for the team is that "this kid is special, therefore the normal rules (like the laws against violence) do not apply to him & he can play for the team regardless."

DuckDuckGriz

July 14th, 2007, 10:22 PM

I agree with you there. But, my question to you is - do you think mighty App State would have turned him down?

I highly doubt it.

cats2506

July 14th, 2007, 10:40 PM

Chill, dude. I was just replying to an earlier poster who tried to equate the standard for criminals in a courtroom to whether it was acceptable for an FCS football team to accept a player who had been booted from OK for some unknown reason (unknown at least to me). This guy may be the next Walter Payton for all I know.

If its any consolation, I was pulling hard for Montana, right up until the Nat'l Championship game. Good luck this year.

I have to call BS
You were replying to GOKATS

Just a reminder that not one athlete from MSU or UM has been convicted of anything- charges have been pressed and in cases arrests made, but no athlete former or current at the time of charges has been to trial.

Your reply to GOKATS

Oh, now THAT's a great measure of CHARACTER! Being innocent until proven guilty is the rule INSIDE a courtroom. On a football team, standards need to be a WHOLE lot higher.

GOKATS was just stating the obvous that these players had not been convicted of anything yet.

I believe that MSU and UM have done all the right things to deal with the problems,

OMHO you were outta line

Mr. C

July 14th, 2007, 10:59 PM

I agree with you there. But, my question to you is - do you think mighty App State would have turned him down?

I highly doubt it.

Based on what I know of Jerry Moore and his history with transfers, I seriously doubt he would have taken Quinn into his program. Highly doubtful he would have taken Bomar either (though from what I have been told about Bomer's situation by SHSU officials, I think Bomar deserved a second chance and is basically a good kid who made a mistake). I just happen to know what kind of things go into Moore's evaluation process of transfers.

Here is a story for you. Several years ago, Moore had a chance to take a transfer running back from Nebraska, who just happened to be from Charlotte. Appalachian State was his first choice. After talking to Tom Osborne, Moore decided to pass on the kid. The young man ended up at Western Illinois and became a star, leading the Leathernecks to the semifinals one year and to back-to-back playoff appearances. He was among the top rushers in I-AA and one of the top vote-getters for the Payton Award. He went on to play in the NFL. His name is Aaron Stecker.

From conversations I've had with other coaches, I know that Bobby Lamb of Furman is also extremely selective of the transfers he brings in and Mike Sewak was the same way at Georgia Southern. Sewak almost never accepted transfers.

Sly Fox

July 14th, 2007, 11:02 PM

Here is a story for you. Several years ago, Moore had a chance to take a transfer running back from Nebraska, who just happened to be from Charlotte. Appalachian State was his first choice. After talking to Tom Osborne, Moore decided to pass on the kid. The young man ended up at Western Illinois and became a star, leading the Leathernecks to the semifinals one year and to back-to-back playoff appearances. He was among the top rushers in I-AA and one of the top vote-getters for the Payton Award. He went on to play in the NFL. His name is Aaron Stecker.

Sounds like Moore made a bad call. What's your point?

It's easy to take the high road when you are in Appy's position.

Mr. C

July 14th, 2007, 11:04 PM

Probably not. I think he's a center.

And how do you know that no centers will be on the Payton watch list when it is released in a few weeks?
:D

Mr. C

July 14th, 2007, 11:06 PM

Sounds like Moore made a bad call. What's your point?

It's easy to take the high road when you are in Appy's position.

No, Moore has high standards. That is my point. There is NO WAY that Quinn would have been invited into Appalachian State's program.

You need to read the posts and the quotes.

Grizalltheway

July 14th, 2007, 11:09 PM

No, Moore has high standards. That is my point. There is NO WAY that Quinn would have been invited into Appalachian State's program.

You need to read the posts and the quotes.

So a future NFL player wasn't up to Moore's standards? xconfusedx

Mr. C

July 14th, 2007, 11:11 PM

So a future NFL player wasn't up to Moore's standards? xconfusedx

Not when the coach thought he had character issues. And like I said, I know personally of other coaches who feel the same way.

Grizalltheway

July 14th, 2007, 11:18 PM

Based on what I know of Jerry Moore and his history with transfers, I seriously doubt he would have taken Quinn into his program. Highly doubtful he would have taken Bomar either (though from what I have been told about Bomer's situation by SHSU officials, I think Bomar deserved a second chance and is basically a good kid who made a mistake). I just happen to know what kind of things go into Moore's evaluation process of transfers.

Here is a story for you. Several years ago, Moore had a chance to take a transfer running back from Nebraska, who just happened to be from Charlotte. Appalachian State was his first choice. After talking to Tom Osborne, Moore decided to pass on the kid. The young man ended up at Western Illinois and became a star, leading the Leathernecks to the semifinals one year and to back-to-back playoff appearances. He was among the top rushers in I-AA and one of the top vote-getters for the Payton Award. He went on to play in the NFL. His name is Aaron Stecker.

From conversations I've had with other coaches, I know that Bobby Lamb of Furman is also extremely selective of the transfers he brings in and Mike Sewak was the same way at Georgia Southern. Sewak almost never accepted transfers.

I guess this suggests that Osborn told Moore that he had character issues, but what exactly did he say about him? It seems like Moore may be a little overly cautious when it comes to evaluating players.

MplsBison

July 14th, 2007, 11:20 PM

I've never heard of an instance where shooting someone dead on their own property was a sign of strong character.

You've never heard of the US military?

DuckDuckGriz

July 14th, 2007, 11:56 PM

You've never heard of the US military?

Haha. I was going to ask that same question. But I didn't want to angry the locals. :D

DuckDuckGriz

July 14th, 2007, 11:58 PM

Mr. C

July 15th, 2007, 12:10 AM

I guess this suggests that Osborn told Moore that he had character issues, but what exactly did he say about him? It seems like Moore may be a little overly cautious when it comes to evaluating players.

Tom Osborne and Jerry Moore are VERY close friends. Moore was Osborne's offensive coordinator at Nebraska and Moore was one of the first people Osborne called to join his staff when he took over. You can call it overly cautious, but it is something that has worked well for Moore through the years.

Mr. C

July 15th, 2007, 12:13 AM

By the way, you can all claim that Moore wouldn't take Quinn, but we'll never know. And if they did turn him down, I am sure you would all be on here bitching about second chances and how that was such an opportunity to pass up. I can't think of any FCS institution that wouldn't. But that's just my opinion. You can have yours.

I wasn't presenting just an opinion. I was giving you some insight into how a particular coach evaluates such things. I also know that Bobby Lamb went to great lengths to check out Ingle Martin before he brought Martin into Furman's program. Anyone who just evaluates based on talent is asking for trouble.

Grizalltheway

July 15th, 2007, 12:14 AM

Tom Osborne and Jerry Moore are VERY close friends. Moore was Osborne's offensive coordinator at Nebraska and Moore was one of the first people Osborne called to join his staff when he took over. You can call it overly cautious, but it is something that has worked well for Moore through the years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Moore or his methods, obviously he's done something right, I'm just wondering exactly what it was that turned Moore off to the Nebraska player.

Mr. C

July 15th, 2007, 12:22 AM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Moore or his methods, obviously he's done something right, I'm just wondering exactly what it was that turned Moore off to the Nebraska player.
The fact that Stecker had some character problems at Nebraska. I don't know the specifics. It been over a decade since I wrote about this.

Osborne, ironically, compromised some of his high standards later in his career and got severely burned by players like Lawrence Phillips and Christian Peter.

SeattleGriz

July 15th, 2007, 03:24 AM

Based on what I know of Jerry Moore and his history with transfers, I seriously doubt he would have taken Quinn into his program. Highly doubtful he would have taken Bomar either (though from what I have been told about Bomer's situation by SHSU officials, I think Bomar deserved a second chance and is basically a good kid who made a mistake). I just happen to know what kind of things go into Moore's evaluation process of transfers.

Here is a story for you. Several years ago, Moore had a chance to take a transfer running back from Nebraska, who just happened to be from Charlotte. Appalachian State was his first choice. After talking to Tom Osborne, Moore decided to pass on the kid. The young man ended up at Western Illinois and became a star, leading the Leathernecks to the semifinals one year and to back-to-back playoff appearances. He was among the top rushers in I-AA and one of the top vote-getters for the Payton Award. He went on to play in the NFL. His name is Aaron Stecker.

From conversations I've had with other coaches, I know that Bobby Lamb of Furman is also extremely selective of the transfers he brings in and Mike Sewak was the same way at Georgia Southern. Sewak almost never accepted transfers.

Your whole argument is speculation. We will never know what Coach Moore would have done if presented with the opportunity to pick up a solid center who started for OU as a freshman.

GOKATS

July 15th, 2007, 04:06 AM

Oh, now THAT's a great measure of CHARACTER! Being innocent until proven guilty is the rule INSIDE a courtroom. On a football team, standards need to be a WHOLE lot higher.

All I was doing was pointing out the fact that noone has been convicted. If in fact you are an attorney you should be able to ascertain what I was saying.

youwouldno

July 15th, 2007, 04:30 AM

You've never heard of the US military?

You're almost as funny as you are smart.

lucchesicourt

July 15th, 2007, 06:37 AM

A few things about Aaron Plunkett: first he was academically qualified to enter UCD, and he did NOT have an athletic schollie, as we were a D2 non schollie school. The fact that he got caught breaking the law cost him his UCD education. In this country, you are innocent until proven guilty, After he was charged, he no longer played for UCD. Sure, he ended up being a bad apple, as anyone could at any school. However, if you find a bad apple and you let him play for you after you know about his past, that is a questionable move. Just because a player is an excellent athlete doesn't mean he should be forgiven his past, as it can affect a schools reputation. I am sure every school has had athletes who have gone sour. And the larger the school, the more likelly you are to have a student (not necessarily an athlete) who has made bad choices.

james_lawfirm

July 15th, 2007, 09:43 AM

I agree with you there. But, my question to you is - do you think mighty App State would have turned him down?

I highly doubt it.

Yes, I do think App. State would have turned him away.

james_lawfirm

July 15th, 2007, 09:49 AM

All I was doing was pointing out the fact that noone has been convicted. If in fact you are an attorney you should be able to ascertain what I was saying.

Thanks for the clarification. And, I was trying to point out that the standards for character should be set somewhat higher than just checking on a player's criminal record.

And, for the record, I am an attorney.

Proud Griz Man

July 15th, 2007, 11:36 AM

No, Moore has high standards. That is my point. There is NO WAY that Quinn would have been invited into Appalachian State's program.
You need to read the posts and the quotes.

Mr. C's overall point about character and 1-A transfers is accurate, but Montana's historical experience is pretty good (not perfect, but good). Examples are Craig Ochs, Drew Miller, Joe Douglass, and Justin Green.

aggie6thman

July 15th, 2007, 02:22 PM

Why just the Montana schools? It happens all over.

I'm sure UC Davis fans want to forget their own Aaron Plunkett who was charged in 2004 of identity theft after getting away with over $400,000. Never mind the fact that the case started to unfold in 2003, nevertheless he continued to play in 10 games for the Aggies that season.

You can't predict the future. If he's a good athlete, no criminal record, you recruit him. Spare me the holier than thou preaching. This is Division I football and thats the way it is.

On another note, the convicted players you refer were not "I-A dropdowns" or potentials for wins vs defamation of character like you are instigating. Gatewood at Montana State was a JC transfer and Wilson and Freeman at Montana were recruited to the school out of high school, again with no prior criminal records.

Quinn is a character risk. BUT, I really would have a tough time believing that a team like UC Davis, who wants to begin to establish themselves in the FCS community would want to turn him down. Plain and simple.

I understand that. But it is all about perception. Look at all the pro athletes who are getting into trouble off the field. What kind of reputation does a team like the Cincinnati Bengals or the Chicago Bears have with their problems? It takes the attention off the field and puts it in the locker room. No team can work efficiently with all that BS going on.

I understand that teams are trying to assert themselves (like UC Davis), as well as schools like Montana who are working to stay on top, but at some point, an athlete has to have too much baggage. A transfer who is looking for more playing time is one thing, someone who is booted off the team for violating NCAA sanctions is a whole different story.

BEAR

July 15th, 2007, 02:40 PM

One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.
Sir Winston Churchill

There was a man who was under a little pressure to accept the ways of another man who was a really really bad character...xlolx...makes football look trivial doesn't it?...xeyebrowx xpeacex

Mr. C

July 15th, 2007, 03:00 PM

Mr. C's overall point about character and 1-A transfers is accurate, but Montana's historical experience is pretty good (not perfect, but good). Examples are Craig Ochs, Drew Miller, Joe Douglass, and Justin Green.
Absolutely agree with you on this point. Montana has had some fine, high-character transfers in the past, like Ochs, Miller, Green etc.

Mr. C

July 15th, 2007, 03:04 PM

Your whole argument is speculation. We will never know what Coach Moore would have done if presented with the opportunity to pick up a solid center who started for OU as a freshman.

No, it is an informed view that comes from knowing someone very well after dealing with them closely for 14 years. First off, ASU already has one of the top-rated centers in the country in Scott Suttle, an All-SoCon performer, who is one of the biggest leaders as a senior on this squad. You are not going to bring in someone to replace a high-quality, character guy like that. Secondly, Jerry Moore is EXTREMELY careful about the transfers he brings in. Call it speculation, if you like, but ASU would have little need for Quinn.

DuckDuckGriz

July 15th, 2007, 03:21 PM

I understand that. But it is all about perception. Look at all the pro athletes who are getting into trouble off the field. What kind of reputation does a team like the Cincinnati Bengals or the Chicago Bears have with their problems? It takes the attention off the field and puts it in the locker room. No team can work efficiently with all that BS going on.

I understand that teams are trying to assert themselves (like UC Davis), as well as schools like Montana who are working to stay on top, but at some point, an athlete has to have too much baggage. A transfer who is looking for more playing time is one thing, someone who is booted off the team for violating NCAA sanctions is a whole different story.

Well, sure it's all about perception. But you can't blame a school like Montana or Montana State, who when (the players accused) came in, had no criminal past or criminal record. All criticism is being made after the fact, which is pointless. Now I agree with you on Quinn - but had the incidents not occured at UM and MSU (which were unforseen), you would not be giving me this speech.

catbob

July 15th, 2007, 03:23 PM

Exactly. If this guy landed at somewhere where the program isn't under scrutiny and media-spotlight, people wouldn't be ragging so hard.

;)

already123

July 15th, 2007, 04:04 PM

very true

JALMOND

July 15th, 2007, 07:49 PM

I am appreciative that both Bomar and Quinn are able to resume their collegiate careers this year, and both in our realm of FCS football. College athletes that were able to play and now they can continue. What I find interesting is that Bomar was able to issue a "no comment" through the Sam Houston athletic department, yet ESPN was able to contact Quinn directly, thus the infamous comment. Why was Bomar able to answer though the SHSU athletic department, yet Quinn did not get the same consideration from UM?

Both were involved and I am sure have the same opinions, yet it seems SHSU is standing by their transfer when UM's transfer is sort of "on his own" in matters like this.

GrizzlyEdd

July 15th, 2007, 09:05 PM

He did try to say nothing. (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/He%20did%20try%20to%20say%20nothing.)

Before you all try to hang JD Quinn for his phone interview, you might want to "LISTEN" to it first..... He actually did all the right things but of course, ESPN has to run the story in a very slanted way so that can sell their product.... xrolleyesxxcoolxxnonono2xxmadx

Sorry about the title of the link above, I copied it from a post on eGriz. But, if you click on "he did try to say nothing" link it will take you directly to the phone interview between Quinn and the ESPN reporter...

patssle

July 15th, 2007, 10:59 PM

It seems Bomar has definetly taken the better road post-OU. He's not spouting off with stupid comments

Our staff/administrators are taking care of him and truly giving him a 2nd chance. They know what wrath the media is capable of bringing if he were to do interviews with anybody. It also helps that Bomar taking everything in stride and has moved on while Quinn mouths off every chance he gets.

DuckDuckGriz

July 15th, 2007, 11:30 PM

Our staff/administrators are taking care of him and truly giving him a 2nd chance. They know what wrath the media is capable of bringing if he were to do interviews with anybody. It also helps that Bomar taking everything in stride and has moved on while Quinn mouths off every chance he gets.

How so?

patssle

July 16th, 2007, 12:13 AM

I've seen articles from before where he showed his attitude. Don't have them handy, but this isn't the first time he's ran his mouth.

Black Saturday

July 16th, 2007, 04:48 PM

I agree with you there. But, my question to you is - do you think mighty App State would have turned him down?

I highly doubt it.

Yes, We don't need him.:)

DuckDuckGriz

July 16th, 2007, 05:14 PM

Yes, We don't need him.:)

You wouldn't have use for a potential BCS All-American center from OU who started as a freshman? Especially with that rushing attack and mobile QB of yours? Please. xrolleyesx

Franks Tanks

July 16th, 2007, 06:30 PM

You wouldn't have use for a potential BCS All-American center from OU who started as a freshman? Especially with that rushing attack and mobile QB of yours? Please. xrolleyesx

It is impossible to defend this guys behavior and attiude, he obviosuly thinks his S*** dont stink. You can make teh argument as you have that most others schools would have taken him as well, and that is probably true. But that doesnt change the fact that I feel he is bad for team chemistry and I personally wouldnt take teh chance on him

DuckDuckGriz

July 16th, 2007, 06:38 PM

It is impossible to defend this guys behavior and attiude, he obviosuly thinks his S*** dont stink. You can make teh argument as you have that most others schools would have taken him as well, and that is probably true. But that doesnt change the fact that I feel he is bad for team chemistry and I personally wouldnt take teh chance on him

You're right, but in no way have I attempted to defend his behavior or attitude. I am simply defending a school like UM or MSU who have, in light of unforseen events, been made the scapegoat for transfer situations which exist, and have existed, at other schools.

BR AppMan

July 16th, 2007, 07:46 PM

DuckDuckGriz

July 16th, 2007, 07:47 PM

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/images/smilies/eyebrow.gif
xeyxeyebrowx ebrowxxrulesx

What am I supposed to see? A link to the eyebrow ? xlolx

If you are trying to prove something - notice I said his character is piss poor. Again I'm not defending it but I'm defending UM for picking him up.

Ronbo

July 16th, 2007, 08:09 PM

I heard he's mean, onery, hard to be around and down right anti-social. Perfect! That's just what we want in our O-Line. :D

Grizalltheway

July 16th, 2007, 08:20 PM

It is impossible to defend this guys behavior and attiude, he obviosuly thinks his S*** dont stink. You can make teh argument as you have that most others schools would have taken him as well, and that is probably true. But that doesnt change the fact that I feel he is bad for team chemistry and I personally wouldnt take teh chance on him

Are you telling me there aren't any ***holes on your team? Face it, not every college football player is a model citizen, even if they play for the two-time national champs.

Mr. C

July 16th, 2007, 08:53 PM

You wouldn't have use for a potential BCS All-American center from OU who started as a freshman? Especially with that rushing attack and mobile QB of yours? Please. xrolleyesx
Did you fail to read that App State already has one of the top centers in the country in Scott Suttle. As I posted early, Suttle's name is at least mentioned when you talk about All-Americans. He is All-SoCon and he is one of the biggest leaders on the team. No ASU doesn't need Quinn any more than ASU would need Rhett Bomar.

Franks Tanks

July 16th, 2007, 09:08 PM

Are you telling me there aren't any ***holes on your team? Face it, not every college football player is a model citizen, even if they play for the two-time national champs.

No their are plenty of a**holes on every team, and thats fine as football players need a certain amount of attitude. But their are no players on my team who have committed major NCAA rules infractions and caused his prior school to be on probation, and then have a terrible attitude about it

Tod

July 16th, 2007, 11:00 PM

Did you fail to read that App State already has one of the top centers in the country in Scott Suttle. As I posted early, Suttle's name is at least mentioned when you talk about All-Americans. He is All-SoCon and he is one of the biggest leaders on the team. No ASU doesn't need Quinn any more than ASU would need Rhett Bomar.

So Quinn couldn't be utilized at another position?

Quinn would be starting on any team in FCS.

So he's a butthead, maybe. He hasn't victimized anybody, he broke a rule, not a law.

Any team who would turn him down, at least a public school team, is nuts, IMO.

Ronbo

July 17th, 2007, 12:13 AM

Did you fail to read that App State already has one of the top centers in the country in Scott Suttle. As I posted early, Suttle's name is at least mentioned when you talk about All-Americans. He is All-SoCon and he is one of the biggest leaders on the team. No ASU doesn't need Quinn any more than ASU would need Rhett Bomar.

I'm hearing that Quinn has been re-assigned to his more natural guard position. Colin Dow, 6'5" 310lb Junior and three year starter will take over at Center where he filled in several games last season because of injuries.

Dow
http://web.montanagrizzlies.com/mtgriz/images/photo_gallery_images/2006_2007/Football/Photos/vs_Montana_S/colin_dow10.jpg

Tod

July 17th, 2007, 12:22 AM

Our O-line, if it remains healthy, may be the best in FCS, bar none.

Of course, an injury or two or three, and that can change quickly.

We'll definitely see improvement over last year, when we allowed more sacks than any other I-AA (FCS) team.

This line and Lex and our other running backs is going to make our running game absolutely awesome.

Our passing game, with returning all WR's will be great.

Our special teams, with a great senior kicker and a fantastic punter returning from a medical redshirt will be way above average.

Our defense will be rock solid.

Sorry, got a bit carried away, there. :D :D :D

patssle

July 17th, 2007, 12:42 AM

Quinn would be starting on any team in FCS.

No joke. There's a reason he was a starter at OU...a national powerhouse.

Ronbo

July 17th, 2007, 02:15 AM

No joke. There's a reason he was a starter at OU...a national powerhouse.

One of the reasons he was a starter at an elite FBS school is that he's an over confident, mean, nasty, short tempered assh###. Perfect personality for an O-Lineman. I don't understand why he is being bashed. You don't want those big teddy bears on your line.

Note to Tod:

No O-Line in the Country would have protected Swogger any better. Josh needed 5 seconds to decide who to throw to and that and his lack of mobility was the main reason for the sack total.

Tod

July 17th, 2007, 02:33 AM

One of the reasons he was a starter at an elite FBS school is that he's an over confident, mean, nasty, short tempered assh###. Perfect personality for an O-Lineman. I don't understand why he is being bashed. You don't want those big teddy bears on your line.

Note to Tod:

No O-Line in the Country would have protected Swogger any better. Josh needed 5 seconds to decide who to throw to and that and his lack of mobility was the main reason for the sack total.

Yeah, I do agree with that pretty much. He was a bit slow to pull the trigger. He's definitely mostly to blame for that sack total.

GrizzlyEdd

July 17th, 2007, 03:39 AM

He is being bashed by some folks who haven't taken the time to check out the link to his phone conversation I posted earlier on this thread. Me thinks that if people would take the time to listen to that phone call between Quinn and the ESPN reporter, they would find that Quinn was hoodwinked into saying more than he very obviously didn't want to say...

He did try to say nothing (http://www.grizzoulian.com/2007/07/articles/-football/jd-quinn-is-getting-real-sick-of-this/).

give him a listen at the link above... sounds to me like he definitely didn't want to say anything...

james_lawfirm

July 17th, 2007, 06:11 AM

One of the reasons he was a starter at an elite FBS school is that he's an over confident, mean, nasty, short tempered assh###. Perfect personality for an O-Lineman. I don't understand why he is being bashed. You don't want those big teddy bears on your line.

Note to Tod:

No O-Line in the Country would have protected Swogger any better. Josh needed 5 seconds to decide who to throw to and that and his lack of mobility was the main reason for the sack total.

Teddy Bear? Your words. I'd rather have a team player with a positive attitude anytime, rather than some jerk that cannot get along with anybody. Does that "attitude" get in the way of his ability to learn and to play as a team-player? Sure it does. I'd take ASU's OL of the 2006 season anyday.

For the record, I hope its Montanta/ASU in Chatty. in '07. xthumbsupx

james_lawfirm

July 17th, 2007, 06:37 AM

So Quinn couldn't be utilized at another position?

Quinn would be starting on any team in FCS.

So he's a butthead, maybe. He hasn't victimized anybody, he broke a rule, not a law.

Any team who would turn him down, at least a public school team, is nuts, IMO.

I agree with Mr. C. ASU's Coach Moore would have turned him down. Nuts? I don't think so. The flip side is that his approach has been working pretty well the last two years. Hard to argue with success.

A number of threads on here, including this one, come down to this same discussion, which is "Does character matter in college football?" Really, that is the same question as "Does the end justify the means?"

I have been watching ASU football for over 20 years. I have seen and heard of instances of poor choices, bad decisions, and even illegal activity concerning football teams (ASU & others too). I admit the temptation is great to accept a player who is a great athlete but who might be lacking in "character". However, the coach's acceptance, or his refusal to accept, such a player sends a HUGE message to the rest of the team.

Folks, this is a TEAM sport. There are up to 63 some scholarship athletes and presumably an unlimited number of walkons on any given football team. All of whom are looking to the coach and the staff for leadership. If they aren't, they should be. If the coach sets the stage early for expecting high standards and not putting up with any crap, then the entire team benefits.

Two examples: 1) On the eve of a bowl game, Lou Holtz (coaching Notre Dame or Arkansas at the time, I'm not sure which) held his star running back out of the game due to a team rules infraction. The media thought he was nuts. But, his team (whatever it was) won the game AND that incident alone sent a message to all future Holtz teams that noone gets by breaking his rules. 2) In the summer before the '04 season, Coach Moore dismissed a number of players (8, I think) off the ASU team after learning they were involved with steroids. Some of these guys were starters on the DL. This had two obvious effects on ASU football and one perhaps not so obvious effect. The 2004 season went down hill fast, 6 - 5, lost all away games & worst record in many years. But, a lot of freshman got a lot of playing time that they otherwise would not have had. The not so obvious effect of this was that the message Coach Moore sent to his players was that he was serious about rule breaking. I think this incident in '04, and the way it was handled by the coaches, was one big reason for ASU's success in '05.

Now, you fellers can keep on screaming for these big, fast, athletic, hoodlums without character all you want. But it seems to me that one way to be successful in sports, and to continue that success, is to set high standards for your team, and then live up to those standards. Bottom line is that a player's attitude does matter - I'll take a team with a positive attitude anyday, over one with a bad attitude. Usually a player with a bad attitude is so focused on himself that he does not even realize he is on a team.

And, another thing for the record: ASU will have a pretty good team in '07 too.

lucchesicourt

July 17th, 2007, 08:46 AM

Quinn may not be able to qualify, academically, to attend some FCS public schools. So, saying any public institution that would turn him down would be crazy, may not be exactly right. Sure, he may be FCS qualified, but there are some FCS institutions that have higher requirements than D1, an example would be Cal Poly, UCD, and I am sure others. I am only familiar with the California public institutions and their requirements. But, besides this factor, I agree with James, he is exactly right!!

DuckDuckGriz

July 17th, 2007, 11:01 AM

Again - listen to the entire phone conversation. Don't go making judgments like the one that started this thread.

JD Quinn may be a jerk - he may not be. The media works in mysterious ways. But again, I don't think Montana made a bad move in picking him up. I agree that someone who gets along with the team, works as a team, etc is the best kind of star to have. In fact, most of Montana's success has come off of "team players," guys that weren't always the most athletic, didn't go on to the NFL, but won - got into the system with other guys of the same nature and just clicked.

Therefore, this is Montana's first real experience with this situation. Other schools have faced it before. So I don't understand why people are so quick to criticize UM already - it's easy to see that (once again) had the unforseen events not occurred at UM or MSU, this thread wouldn't exist.

Tailbone

July 17th, 2007, 11:55 AM

.... I have seen and heard of instances of poor choices, bad decisions, and even illegal activity concerning football teams (ASU & others too). .......

Now, you fellers can keep on screaming for these big, fast, athletic, hoodlums without character all you want. But it seems to me that one way to be successful in sports, and to continue that success, is to set high standards for your team, and then live up to those standards. Bottom line is that a player's attitude does matter - I'll take a team with a positive attitude anyday, over one with a bad attitude. Usually a player with a bad attitude is so focused on himself that he does not even realize he is on a team. .........

Mr Lawfirm, I must admit to some some surprise over your rush to judgment of Mr Quinn. I don't know what kind of law you practice but I would expect anyone in your profession to withhold judgment until there was sufficient evidence to formulate an accurate picture of the man or his character.
You, of all people, should be reluctant to draw conclusions based on media reports and message-board innuendo.

As a young entrepreneur (8 years old), I had a kool-aid stand and sold greeting cards. If someone overpaid me, I would tell them so. But with a smile and a wink, many would tell me that they were aware of how much they had given me and insisted I keep the money. Guess what, I did. I suppose that make me as bad a character as mr. Quinn, an unrepentent reprobate, unfit to keep the company of more honest human beings. Do his actions make him a "bad guy" or human. If a football team were only to consist of players without human foibles, Mr. C would have no job...as there would be no one to play football.

The kid made a mistake. He did so knowingly, and probably justified it as a gratuity available to all OK football players. He was wrong, and is now paying the price. As he is now a second tier athlete, I suspect his error will have significant financial consequences as well (draft position).
I suspect what people hear is not the remorse they would hope to see displayed but rather the annoyance mr. Quinn is experiencing at having the defining story of his life, to this point, be his mistake rather than the considerable talent that would have a freshman athlete starting on a top BCS football team - and the constant badgering by media representatives who would prefer the drama that sells papers. I think if I found myself in mr. Quinn's position, I might respond as he does, and offer a resentful dismissal to all inquiries - particularly if the notion of unfair justice was exacerbated by the knowledge that greater transgressions were being committed by some, if not all, other players without punishment.

Without sufficient context by which to judge the man, it is unfair (for any of us) to ascribe motive or attitude to his remarks (and certainly, his remarks as reported in the media). Without understanding his perspective, it is unfair to construe the tone & tenor of his comments as evidence of "remorselessness".

I'm going to wait to judge the man, at least until I can do so in the context of the period for which he will be a Montana athlete - a period that should allow sufficient time to more accurately assess the character that so many posters seem disposed to condemn.

I am tempted to address Mr. C's "professional" demeanor.....but that is better saved for a different post.

cats2506

July 17th, 2007, 12:42 PM

Mr Lawfirm, I must admit to some some surprise over your rush to judgment of Mr Quinn. I don't know what kind of law you practice but I would expect anyone in your profession to withhold judgment until there was sufficient evidence to formulate an accurate picture of the man or his character.
You, of all people, should be reluctant to draw conclusions based on media reports and message-board innuendo.

As a young entrepreneur (8 years old), I had a kool-aid stand and sold greeting cards. If someone overpaid me, I would tell them so. But with a smile and a wink, many would tell me that they were aware of how much they had given me and insisted I keep the money. Guess what, I did. I suppose that make me as bad a character as mr. Quinn, an unrepentent reprobate, unfit to keep the company of more honest human beings. Do his actions make him a "bad guy" or human. If a football team were only to consist of players without human foibles, Mr. C would have no job...as there would be no one to play football.

The kid made a mistake. He did so knowingly, and probably justified it as a gratuity available to all OK football players. He was wrong, and is now paying the price. As he is now a second tier athlete, I suspect his error will have significant financial consequences as well (draft position).
I suspect what people hear is not the remorse they would hope to see displayed but rather the annoyance mr. Quinn is experiencing at having the defining story of his life, to this point, be his mistake rather than the considerable talent that would have a freshman athlete starting on a top BCS football team - and the constant badgering by media representatives who would prefer the drama that sells papers. I think if I found myself in mr. Quinn's position, I might respond as he does, and offer a resentful dismissal to all inquiries - particularly if the notion of unfair justice was exacerbated by the knowledge that greater transgressions were being committed by some, if not all, other players without punishment.

Without sufficient context by which to judge the man, it is unfair (for any of us) to ascribe motive or attitude to his remarks (and certainly, his remarks as reported in the media). Without understanding his perspective, it is unfair to construe the tone & tenor of his comments as evidence of "remorselessness".

I'm going to wait to judge the man, at least until I can do so in the context of the period for which he will be a Montana athlete - a period that should allow sufficient time to more accurately assess the character that so many posters seem disposed to condemn.

I am tempted to address Mr. C's "professional" demeanor.....but that is better saved for a different post.

Good post! xhurrayx

putter

July 17th, 2007, 01:51 PM

I listened to Quinn's phone call and it came across to me as a "Leave me alone already" tone. He is no longer a Sooner so why should he care what happens to the program now?

Who knows what other programs would have done. If you don't need an O lineman then you don't recruit Quinn and to say anything otherwise is speculation, however educated you may be about the coaches. Hauck has had a pretty good track record of going after drop-down players he thought could help the program and these kids have proven to be quality people. Quinn probably is arrogant but if you are starting at Oklahoma as a freshman and getting all-Big12 honors then that probably comes with the territory.

A relative of mine coached at a BCS school and he said there are a lot of kids that are "bought and paid for" so Quinn situation is probably more the norm than the exception.

james_lawfirm

July 17th, 2007, 03:25 PM

DuckDuckGriz

July 17th, 2007, 03:41 PM

bobcatfan06

July 17th, 2007, 06:37 PM

Don't know if anyone said this or not, didn't read the whole thread, but the most ironic part of the whole interview was when Quinn told the reporter to "get a real job." How is he one to talk about having a real job? Didn't he get paid for not even going to a job?

Tailbone

July 17th, 2007, 07:47 PM

Bone:

I made no judgment of Mr. Quinn. I had to re-read my post to be certain. My point was that character is important and could be the deciding factor for a coach considering a transfer. In fact, in an earlier thread I pondered that this fellow might even be a Choir boy. I wish Montana the best. Let me know how this guy turns out.

In that case, I apologize.

What people seem to overlook is that the kid was a freshman, surrounded by what I suspect were less than ideal role models. When you are a young guy trying to fit in with older, established members of a select group, The peer pressure might compel you to emulate their behavior. I'm sure the unspoken accusation would be that if you don't follow suit, you can't be trusted to keep your mouth shut about the behavior of your teammates.

I don't know the situation well enough (having seen/heard only what everyone else has) to make a character assessment but I'm willing to give the kid the benefit of the doubt in the short term and hope that a new environment and culture will be all that is necessary to put this behind him.