From the Rumor Mill: Missouri Valley Conference Football?

[douglasdmb]

Gateway Football Conference merging with the Missouri Valley Conference?

There have been some rumor-mumblings about this that go as far back as February (http://www.areavoices.com/bisonmedia/?blog=6518 , bottom of blog entry), but now the casual talk from those in the know is getting louder.

From what I've heard, things are moving pretty quickly in the St. Louis offices shared by the Gateway and the MVC. From what I understand (though I'm not one those aforementioned "in-the-know" people), any current Gateway members who aren't already Valley members for all other sports would be football-only members in the MVC.

Gateway officials would be smart to try and capitalize on the success of Valley basketball, and I would guess that that is their prime motive.

Thoughts?

[DFW HOYA]

MVC football would be a great idea and tie back to a storied major college past that dates to 1928.

Past MVC champions included Drake, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Detroit, Houston, North Texas, Louisville, Memphis, and Cincinnati, among others.

[TheBisonator]

And if Indiana State is unable to pull its weight and drops football, and if Wichita State brings football back, you have a good case for moving the conference to FBS. At least by that time the bottom-attendance school in MVC football would average at least 10,000 (perhaps 12,000) per game, and I know of at least 5 schools in the MVC that could get 15,000 per. That's Wichita State, NDSU, SDSU, Illinois State and Youngstown State. Southern Illinois, Western Illinois, Northern Iowa and Missouri State could maybe be close to 15,000 per game too. At least you'd have a conference that's better than the Sun Belt.

[FlyYtown]

1- Do you really think NDSU and SDSU would've joined the Gateway and the Mid-Con in the same year, if this had been brought up, because I don't.

2- And your idea of an entire move of the MVC to the FBS is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Do you realize the whole thing is much more than just averaging 15,000 at a football game. It also has to do with giving out more scholarships in sports, and where the hell do you think you get those scholarships from? You need to find money from somewhere, and for YSU alone, it would cost $8 million dollars to move to the MAC, imagine an entire league.

---THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN, YSU, WIU, NDSU, SDSU WILL TURN IT DOWN.---

[Reed Rothchild]

2- And your idea of an entire move of the MVC to the FBS is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Do you realize the whole thing is much more than just averaging 15,000 at a football game. It also has to do with giving out more scholarships in sports, and where the hell do you think you get those scholarships from? You need to find money from somewhere, and for YSU alone, it would cost $8 million dollars to move to the MAC, imagine an entire league.



The UNI-DOME is not getting any bigger and capacity is only around 16k.

[FlyYtown]

The UNI-DOME is not getting any bigger and capacity is only around 16k.
That certainly won't do in FBS, you and I both know!

[BearsCountry]

1- Do you really think NDSU and SDSU would've joined the Gateway and the Mid-Con in the same year, if this had been brought up, because I don't.

---THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN, YSU, WIU, NDSU, SDSU WILL TURN IT DOWN.---

Why would having the MVC name be bad for the affilates schools. Heck WIU would give anything in the world to be in the Valley, and NDSU/SDSU would to.

[therealbigredrules]

Marketing only. Change the name and try to build the success of basketball side of MVC. Not going to see Evansville playing football anytime soon. Not going to see the MVC basketball side let in YSU or others. Let the name game begin.

As we say at work...I love the going to marketing meetings in the winter because it has a two drink minimum and lots of hot air.

[Zoo]

And if Indiana State is unable to pull its weight and drops football, and if Wichita State brings football back, you have a good case for moving the conference to FBS. At least by that time the bottom-attendance school in MVC football would average at least 10,000 (perhaps 12,000) per game, and I know of at least 5 schools in the MVC that could get 15,000 per. That's Wichita State, NDSU, SDSU, Illinois State and Youngstown State. Southern Illinois, Western Illinois, Northern Iowa and Missouri State could maybe be close to 15,000 per game too. At least you'd have a conference that's better than the Sun Belt.

What conference isn't really? xlolx xlolx xlolx

Indiana State is thinking about dropping football? xconfusedx

[Hammersmith]

1- Do you really think NDSU and SDSU would've joined the Gateway and the Mid-Con in the same year, if this had been brought up, because I don't.

2- And your idea of an entire move of the MVC to the FBS is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Do you realize the whole thing is much more than just averaging 15,000 at a football game. It also has to do with giving out more scholarships in sports, and where the hell do you think you get those scholarships from? You need to find money from somewhere, and for YSU alone, it would cost $8 million dollars to move to the MAC, imagine an entire league.

---THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN, YSU, WIU, NDSU, SDSU WILL TURN IT DOWN.---
1. Not just yes, but HELL YES! This is the best probable scenario for NDSU. Let's face it, no FCS conference(including the Gateway) has national name recognition among the casual sports fan. The Missouri Valley, on the other hand, is quite well known. No sane Bison fan believes that NDSU is ready for full MVC membership at the moment, but getting into the GFC was a very small foot in the door and becoming football affiliates to the MVC, in name as well as fact, opens that door just a tiny bit wider. The SL is a place for NDSU(and SDSU) to begin to make a name for ourselves in basketball. If we can get into the NCAA tournament(especially as at-large bids) and win some games, we just might become attractive enough to the non-football MVC schools for them to overlook our geography. It's still a long shot, but, considering our location, it's the best we've got.

2. Again, it's a long shot but I wouldn't say it's ridiculous. Assuming the data from OPE is accurate(and that's a pretty big assumption), several Gateway schools would have to nearly double the number of grants-in-aid they give out. Only MSU gives out more than the 200 required for FBS. The GFC average is about 135. Still, if it's deemed important enough, I think most of the schools could do it; Indiana St notwithstanding. Four things to remember: First, all potential schools already have enough sports in place; they only need to fund them to a higher level. Second, the jump from 63(assuming a fully funded FCS squad) to 76.5(the minimum for FBS) is not a horrible leap. Third, there is a way around the attendance requirement if a school is at least close: a booster group can buy enough tickets at 1/3 price to make up the difference. Last, much of the increase in cost of a (sub)division jump comes from increased travel costs that come with a new conference. If a conference moves up as a group(with only a couple additions), those travel costs change very little.

Do I think the MVC will move to FBS in the next couple of years? No. In 5-10? A small chance; say 10%. I think most of it will be decided during the next several NCAA basketball tournaments. If the MVC gets only two bids a few more times, I think they'll start looking at ways to improve their standing, and FBS will be on that list. How seriously it will be considered is still a huge question.

[AmsterBison]

Why would having the MVC name be bad for the affilates schools. Heck WIU would give anything in the world to be in the Valley, and NDSU/SDSU would to.

I was thinking maybe the YSU guy meant that NDSU and SDSU wouldn't have been invited. I think that NDSU and SDSU would have viewed the Missouri Valley connection as desirable. While I sure hope the Summit (fka Mid-Con) works out well for everybody involved and we never leave, a little networking can't hurt. Merely linking NDSU and SDSU with the Missouri Valley semantically can affect future decisions.

[skinny_uncle]

1, I won't believe it until I hear something official from the Valley office. These rumors have floated around for a long time. I think it is mostly wishful thinking by some fans.
2. FBS and the Valley ain't happening. Attendance issues aside, the scholarship issue would be a killer. Once you add that many scholarships, Title IX issues come into play and you have to add scholarships for women's sports as well. Most league schools could not afford it.

[jessesd]

The UNI-DOME is not getting any bigger and capacity is only around 16k.


I theard that the UNI dome and the Dakota barn (dome) were build with the option to add the second deck and to be reconfigured after track removal to be in the upper 30k's to 40k's like the Carrier-dome from where they were inspired after?

I read that somwhere a while back, but If that is possible, could they afford such expansion and reconfiguration?xcoffeex xcoffeex

[MplsBison]

MVC football, 2015?:

North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota State
South Dakota
Northern Iowa
Drake
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State
Wichita State

(YSU leaves for FBS)

[Mountain Panther]

MVC football, 2015?:

North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota State
South Dakota
Northern Iowa
Drake
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State
Wichita State

(YSU leaves for FBS)

You would have to divide it into MVC East & West.

[BisonBacker]

MVC football, 2015?:

North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota State
South Dakota
Northern Iowa
Drake
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State
Wichita State

(YSU leaves for FBS)


Once again your true colors show xcoffeex
By the way I fixed your username.

[FlyYtown]

Well regardless of if this were to happen or not, although it won't, the Penguins will not leave the Horizon League unless they were heading to the MAC. We really do enjoy the competition we have in all the sports in the Horizon; such as Butler in Men's Basketball or UW-GB in Women's Basketball. We also have strong baseball and softball programs, as well as fabulous track and field squads.

As much as everyone wants YSU to move up; it will take a few championships in the FCS to get enough people for a need to increase the capacity of Stambaugh, which who knows, could happen one day!

Rumor has it that we are getting a second scoreboard on the other side of the stadium this or next year.

[PMB4Life]

FlyY, can I just say that Youngstown State is better off in the Horizon anyway? The Horizon League is doing a little bit better than the MAC lately, and has FAR more name-recognition in its membership (Butler, UW-Milwaukee for example).

And I don't think the point of naming it the Missouri Valley would mean that there would be a push for FBS membership. I for one am not thrilled with the idea of UNI moving to FBS and getting their heads slammed in by Michigan and Ohio State for loads of money just to compete in a bowl game sponsored by Bubba's Tire and Appliance. Change the name, I don't care. A rose by any other name, and all that. But this better not have anything to do with diabolical Savannah State-esque plans ten years down the road.

[douglasdmb]

Well regardless of if this were to happen or not, although it won't, the Penguins will not leave the Horizon League unless they were heading to the MAC.

Who said anything about you guys leaving the Horizon?

[MplsBison]

You would have to divide it into MVC East & West.

Which would be fine, of course. Not to mention money saved on travel.

Play the 5 in your division every season and rotate 3 from the other division.

[MplsBison]

Once again your true colors show

As does your blind hatred.


NDSU has absolutely nothing to lose by having UND in the same conference.


No offense to the great series we have each season with SDSU, but it will never touch Bison Sioux. Don't care how hard you pretend.

And the travel can't be beat. Just an hour up the road.


And they have damn good teams too (ask UNI). Competition only makes you better.



Stop being such a bitter 2 year old.

Mommy, that poopy head took my toy!

[TheBisonator]

As does your blind hatred.


NDSU has absolutely nothing to lose by having UND in the same conference.


No offense to the great series we have each season with SDSU, but it will never touch Bison Sioux. Don't care how hard you pretend.

And the travel can't be beat. Just an hour up the road.


And they have damn good teams too (ask UNI). Competition only makes you better.



Stop being such a bitter 2 year old.

Mommy, that poopy head took my toy!

They will open a ski resort in hell before UND ever is invited to the Missouri Valley anything. Forget it, Mpls. Not going to happen. Ever.

[JBB]

I guess it really doesnt matter to me. It would bring us one more step closer to the MVC, but some unforseen things have to happen before that door opens no matter what happens with football.

I just dont see any of the NDSU conference affiliations supporting new members that would make travel for them more difficult but easier for us. Any expansion is going to be decided by our conference mates and I doubt any more Dakota schools are going to get much consideration unless the situation changes a lot.

[MplsBison]

They will open a ski resort in hell before UND ever is invited to the Missouri Valley anything. Forget it, Mpls. Not going to happen. Ever.

And that's what some in the Gateway said about us getting in.



It will happen. And I will be there to point and laugh at those of you with blind hatred in your hearts.



Just the thought of you after reading the announcement online, so angry that spit is flying on the screen as you smash your fists down into the keyboard *NOOOOOOO!!!!!11 THIS CAN"T HAPPEN!!!11* gives me a little chuckle.

[douglasdmb]

And that's what some in the Gateway said about us getting in.

Mpls, the Gateway made an agreement with NDSU and SDSU because (a) that put nine teams in the league with WKU leaving, which is the perfect number for a football conference, and (b) those schools make the Gateway THE toughest conference in the FCS.

What would the Gateway have to gain from adding UND and USD?

UNLESS you see some league members leave (YSU, like you mentioned), I don't see any rationale for adding these schools.

[BearsCountry]

Mpls, the Gateway made an agreement with NDSU and SDSU because (a) that put nine teams in the league with WKU leaving, which is the perfect number for a football conference, and (b) those schools make the Gateway THE toughest conference in the FCS.

What would the Gateway have to gain from adding UND and USD?

UNLESS you see some league members leave (YSU, like you mentioned), I don't see any rationale for adding these schools.

We have a winner.

The best sceniaro for the Dakota schools is if the XDSU's get good enough in 5 years to get an invite to the MVC, then the UXD's could slide into their place in the Summit.

[89rabbit]

We have a winner.

The best sceniaro for the Dakota schools is if the XDSU's get good enough in 5 years to get an invite to the MVC, then the UXD's could slide into their place in the Summit.



Sounds good to me! xthumbsupx

[Fresno St. Alum]

The Summit will probably add the UXD's even if the MVC doesn't take the XDSU's. Only way I see the Gateway adding UXD's is if YSU goes FBS. YSU fans is that even a option?

[MplsBison]

UNLESS you see some league members leave (YSU, like you mentioned), I don't see any rationale for adding these schools.


That's exactly what I've been talking about.


When YSU goes to the MAC, adding UND and USD will bring the Gateway to 10, which is the perfect number for a football conference. Not 9.


10 is better than 9 because not having to worry about scheduling a non conference game in the middle of the conference season is better than playing every conference team each season.

In both cases you'd have a balanced home/away with 4/4 each season.

[jessesd]

They will open a ski resort in hell before UND ever is invited to the Missouri Valley anything. Forget it, Mpls. Not going to happen. Ever.

the ski resort in Hell (Hell, Michigan) is already open.xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx .... I guess is only time for the rest.... you called, not me!.....xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx

http://www.michigan.org/travel/city/index.asp?city=G3136

[douglasdmb]

10 is better than 9 because not having to worry about scheduling a non conference game in the middle of the conference season is better than playing every conference team each season.

In both cases you'd have a balanced home/away with 4/4 each season.

That logic makes no sense to me.

In a nine-team league, you play everyone and have a balanced home/away schedule in the conference. When your league members aren't guaranteed to play each team in the league, it creates an unfair advantage/disadvantage for certain teams and doesn't leave a clear-cut champion. You see this all the time in the Big Ten. Wisconsin had a great season last year, but many thought that it hurt their chances at a BCS bowl that they didn't even get to play Ohio State.

A nine-team league leaves you with eight conference games, an FBS buyout game, a Div. II bashing game, and one non-conference FCS game. When you combine that with a balanced home/away conference schedule that allows everyone in the conference to play each other, I don't see a better alternative.

Anyway, what would the Gateway have to gain by adding USD and UND?

[MplsBison]

Wisconsin had a great season last year, but many thought that it hurt their chances at a BCS bowl that they didn't even get to play Ohio State.

They had their clearly defined shot: beat Michigan and you're in the BCS.

They lost and they were out. Simple.


I don't see a better alternative.

But you didn't mention the fact that it's impossible to have those 8 conference games played in 8 consecutive weeks. You're guaranteed to have a bye week during conference play. That screws things up for scheduling.

Therefore, the 10 game conference is superior.


what would the Gateway have to gain by adding USD and UND?


Only the exact same things that they had by adding NDSU and SDSU.

It also makes travel a heck of a lot cheaper for NDSU, SDSU, and UNI (and Drake if they joined).

[douglasdmb]

They had their clearly defined shot: beat Michigan and you're in the BCS.

They lost and they were out. Simple.

True. But what if they HAD beaten Michigan. OSU and Wisky share the Big Ten title, which doesn't really matter in the longrun (though OSU would've probably gotten the nod to the title game over Wisconsin), but you have two teams sharing the Big Ten title that didn't even play each other. More of an annoyance than anything, but it's better for everyone in the league if everyone plays the same teams.



But you didn't mention the fact that it's impossible to have those 8 conference games played in 8 consecutive weeks. You're guaranteed to have a bye week during conference play. That screws things up for scheduling.

Therefore, the 10 game conference is superior.

Maybe I'm ignorant to this, but exactly how does having a bye week during conference play screw up scheduling?


Only the exact same things that they had by adding NDSU and SDSU.

It also makes travel a heck of a lot cheaper for NDSU, SDSU, and UNI (and Drake if they joined)

Sorry, but it's just not necessary. The SEC is a brutal conference, but you don't see them trying to pick up a Florida St. or a Clemson just for the sake of adding more great teams. There is just no need to add more solid programs. Aside from that, half the reason that the Gateway added NDSU and SDSU was because the league felt that they needed to fill up empty space.

You say that this move would make travel cheaper for NDSU, SDSU, and UNI, but what about the other six programs in the league? Traveling to NDSU and SDSU is already going to be pretty crippling financially for schools like Indiana State. These schools simply won't be able to handle multiple trips up to the Dakotas each season.

Once again, the Gateway has no need for UND and USD unless someone else leaves. Sorry.

[BisonBacker]

True. But what if they HAD beaten Michigan. OSU and Wisky share the Big Ten title, which doesn't really matter in the longrun (though OSU would've probably gotten the nod to the title game over Wisconsin), but you have two teams sharing the Big Ten title that didn't even play each other. More of an annoyance than anything, but it's better for everyone in the league if everyone plays the same teams.




Maybe I'm ignorant to this, but exactly how does having a bye week during conference play screw up scheduling?



Sorry, but it's just not necessary. The SEC is a brutal conference, but you don't see them trying to pick up a Florida St. or a Clemson just for the sake of adding more great teams. There is just no need to add more solid programs.

You say that this move would make travel cheaper for NDSU, SDSU, and UNI, but what about the other six programs in the league? Traveling to NDSU and SDSU is already going to be pretty crippling financially for schools like Indiana State. These schools simply won't be able to handle multiple trips up to the Dakotas each season.

Once again, the Gateway has no need for UND and USD unless someone else leaves. Sorry.

You have to remember his primary motive is to see the sioux follow NDSU which I don't understand. They already do, but really every opportunity he gets he's trying to sell USD and UND to both the Summit and the Gateway. I don't get him but then again I'm not the only one who doesn't understand his thinking which actually is quite reassuring. I'd be a little worried if he started making sense to me xlolx

[MplsBison]

But what if they HAD beaten Michigan. OSU and Wisky share the Big Ten title

Nope, there'd be a tiebreaker. Likely the team that beat Michigan more, since that was the best shared opponent.


More of an annoyance than anything, but it's better for everyone in the league if everyone plays the same teams.

Not an annoyance at all.

Just the small price (if you can even call it that) of being in such a great conference with so many other good programs.


There's also nothing to stop a 10 team Gateway from doing an unbalenced 9 game schedule.

There'd be no need to, but they could do it.



Maybe I'm ignorant to this, but exactly how does having a bye week during conference play screw up scheduling?

If you leave it as a bye week, which I think is what you're thinking of, then it screws everything up on the team.


But if you try to schedule an NC game, like all teams would, then it's going to be tough finding games. Ask the Big Sky ADs.




The SEC is a brutal conference, but you don't see them trying to pick up a Florida St. or a Clemson just for the sake of adding more great teams.

They would add Texas and Texas AM in less than a second if those were available for them to add.

Simply, there are no teams available to them that would increase their TV deals enough to justify splitting the money another way.


These schools simply won't be able to handle multiple trips up to the Dakotas each season.

They would if the Gateway stipulated that UND/USD pay for travel, or something like that. They did this to NDSU/SDSU in order to get the presidents to vote yes to let them in.



the Gateway has no need for UND and USD unless someone else leaves.

For the billionth time, this scenario is predicated on YSU leaving.

[P2TheB]

Nope, there'd be a tiebreaker. Likely the team that beat Michigan more, since that was the best shared opponent.

I would rather have a round robin true champion than a tiebreaker for who won the game by more points. Granted, there could be a 3 way tie for 1st place, but at least they tried to settle it on the field.



There's also nothing to stop a 10 team Gateway from doing an unbalenced 9 game schedule.

There'd be no need to, but they could do it.

I think that most people equate a 10 team conference to an unbalanced 9 game schedule. I realize it's not always been that way, but I think that most would assume this...I think.



If you leave it as a bye week, which I think is what you're thinking of, then it screws everything up on the team.

The Gateway has played with bye weeks in the middle of the season for years. I think it gives guys a chance to get healthy, and get there head into their academics more. When the GFC goes to a 3+8 schedule (3 non-con, 8 cons), I think you will see alot of bye weeks the week before the conference schedule, or the week after the season is over (depending on if they start GFC games in the 4th or 5th week).


But if you try to schedule an NC game, like all teams would, then it's going to be tough finding games. Ask the Big Sky ADs.

I don't think you will see any non-con games scheduled in the middle of conference season. They may schedule a game the week prior to the conference season kicking off or the week after conference season concludes, but I don't think you will see teams try to schedule non-con games in the middle of conference season, even if for some reason there is a bye week in there.


They would if the Gateway stipulated that UND/USD pay for travel, or something like that. They did this to NDSU/SDSU in order to get the presidents to vote yes to let them in.

One of the reasons for the 4-3 vote that ended up bringing the XDSU's into the conference was to help with shoring up schedules and prevent the loss of an auto bid if YSU or InSU were to leave the GFC...the fact that they are two very quality schools was icing on the cake (or for some schools, the reason they voted them down...in addition to the travel aspect). I don't think a 10 team league, with UNI (for example) not playing 2 other teams or having 9 conference games is a good idea. I like the fact that UNI can go out and get a BS game, an in-state game with Drake, and a D2 home game and then play 8 conference games. If they added one more game, it would knock either a sure fire home game, or a D2 game to get the subs some good snaps, out of the schedule. If they took two conference games away, then we are in the position of having to find another game, in addition to possibly having to have a points tiebreaker settle the conference championship...not the way I want to see a championship won.

[JBB]

That's exactly what I've been talking about.


When YSU goes to the MAC, adding UND and USD will bring the Gateway to 10, which is the perfect number for a football conference. Not 9.


10 is better than 9 because not having to worry about scheduling a non conference game in the middle of the conference season is better than playing every conference team each season.

In both cases you'd have a balanced home/away with 4/4 each season.

If YSU goes and its going to be a Dakota school at all it will be USD. No need at all to go to ten.

I dont see the Summit expanding up this far again either. There are better choices if travel cost matters to the league.

[MplsBison]

Every other year you get 5 conference home games.

[MplsBison]

If YSU goes and its going to be a Dakota school at all it will be USD.

For sure if they chose only one Dakota school it would be UND.

[Col Hogan]

5376

[BisonBacker]

For sure if they chose only one Dakota school it would be UND.

YEah because we all know they are so centrally located as compared to USD. It's not Blind Hatred it's calling it like I see it. You have a big stiffy for UND and I just think it's hilarious how every message board you get on your trying to get them in with NDSU. Hmmm I wonder why that is xcoffeex

[blukeys]

1. Not just yes, but HELL YES! This is the best probable scenario for NDSU. Let's face it, no FCS conference(including the Gateway) has national name recognition among the casual sports fan. The Missouri Valley, on the other hand, is quite well known. No sane Bison fan believes that NDSU is ready for full MVC membership at the moment, but getting into the GFC was a very small foot in the door and becoming football affiliates to the MVC, in name as well as fact, opens that door just a tiny bit wider. The SL is a place for NDSU(and SDSU) to begin to make a name for ourselves in basketball. If we can get into the NCAA tournament(especially as at-large bids) and win some games, we just might become attractive enough to the non-football MVC schools for them to overlook our geography. It's still a long shot, but, considering our location, it's the best we've got.

2. Again, it's a long shot but I wouldn't say it's ridiculous. Assuming the data from OPE is accurate(and that's a pretty big assumption), several Gateway schools would have to nearly double the number of grants-in-aid they give out. Only MSU gives out more than the 200 required for FBS. The GFC average is about 135. Still, if it's deemed important enough, I think most of the schools could do it; Indiana St notwithstanding. Four things to remember: First, all potential schools already have enough sports in place; they only need to fund them to a higher level. Second, the jump from 63(assuming a fully funded FCS squad) to 76.5(the minimum for FBS) is not a horrible leap. Third, there is a way around the attendance requirement if a school is at least close: a booster group can buy enough tickets at 1/3 price to make up the difference. Last, much of the increase in cost of a (sub)division jump comes from increased travel costs that come with a new conference. If a conference moves up as a group(with only a couple additions), those travel costs change very little.

Do I think the MVC will move to FBS in the next couple of years? No. In 5-10? A small chance; say 10%. I think most of it will be decided during the next several NCAA basketball tournaments. If the MVC gets only two bids a few more times, I think they'll start looking at ways to improve their standing, and FBS will be on that list. How seriously it will be considered is still a huge question.

Your scenario of raising the profile of a football conference thru success on the basketball court makes a lot of sense. This by the way is part of the reason for the CAA experiment in football. Like the MVC the CAA is a highly regarded Mid Major conference in Hoops (George Mason etc.)

As a means for raising the brand awareness of both conferences in FB and BB a CAA / MVC challenge in both sports could become an ongoing event with the UNI's and SIU's playing the football CAA schools and the Evansvilles scheduling Virginia Commonwealth, Drexel, etc. Interest in the basketball game could be increased by playing the same school in football in a home and home and a basketball home and home.

Certain CAA football schools such as Delaware and JMU would have to get their basketball acts together but this is doable.

The MVC would be wise to look closely at the CAA for the next few years and conclude that a football marriage would work in its best interest by maintaining the conference profile from August thru March instead of from November thru March.

I see a MVC football conference as a win-win for the Gateway schools.

Working out a yearly FB / BB challenge with the CAA is a win-win all the way around!xnodx xnodx

[MplsBison]

YEah because we all know they are so centrally located as compared to USD.

Yeah because that has anything to do with football travel when every team charters planes.

[douglasdmb]

Yeah because that has anything to do with football travel when every team charters planes.

Wow! Nothing could be farther from the truth. Not everyone has that kind of money, Mpls.

[BearsCountry]

A 10 team/9 game conference schedules works well in two situations - One in a 12 game schedule ala the PAC-10, where you can have 3 OOC still or in D2 where you have a 11 game schedule with 2 OOC games against D2 opponents bc of playoff restrictions in that level. In FCS it would be a horrible situation, it would give only 2 OOC teams which would be used as a FBS game and non-D1 game. No chance at other FCS games.

The new Gateway schedule I would assume would start the conference play Week 4 and go through Week 12 with each team having its bye somewhere in there, which would be a nice needed break with how tough the conference is. OOC games would be the first 3 weeks.

[PantherRob82]

The UNI-DOME is not getting any bigger and capacity is only around 16k.

We did average close to 15k in the Allen days though. Near sellout every week.

[PantherRob82]

Indiana State is thinking about dropping football? xconfusedx

I think the new leadership is more committed. the previous group was throwing around the idea.

[PantherRob82]

I theard that the UNI dome and the Dakota barn (dome) were build with the option to add the second deck and to be reconfigured after track removal to be in the upper 30k's to 40k's like the Carrier-dome from where they were inspired after?

I read that somwhere a while back, but If that is possible, could they afford such expansion and reconfiguration?xcoffeex xcoffeex

We don't have a track, and I think you'd have to remove the roof and go open air to expand.

[Pantherpower]

What about our track under the turf?

[MplsBison]

A 10 team/9 game conference schedules works well in two situations - One in a 12 game schedule ala the PAC-10, where you can have 3 OOC still or in D2 where you have a 11 game schedule with 2 OOC games against D2 opponents bc of playoff restrictions in that level. In FCS it would be a horrible situation, it would give only 2 OOC teams which would be used as a FBS game and non-D1 game. No chance at other FCS games.

Which why you could also easily go an 8 game conference schedule with 10 teams.


No bye weeks to screw things up. Also gives teams more opportunities to schedule OOC games in weeks 1-4 rather limiting them to weeks 1-3.

[BearsCountry]

Which why you could also easily go an 8 game conference schedule with 10 teams.


No bye weeks to screw things up. Also gives teams more opportunities to schedule OOC games in weeks 1-4 rather limiting them to weeks 1-3.

8 game schedules in a 10 team league DO NOT WORK. And majority of teams have no problems scheduling in weeks 1-3.

You just have your little agdena like normal and trying to make it work in your little world.

[skinny_uncle]

This thread may have some of the most off-the-wall speculation I've seen. The Valley will remain stable at 10 teams for basketball. Most of the schools like the double round-robin schedule that provides. The Gateway looks stable as soon as the Dakotas join next year. I'm not sure they would want to change the name to the MVC for a league that has almost as many non-affiliate members (the Dakotas, WIU and YSU) as Valley teams (SIU, Ill State, Ind St, UNI, MSU). The only Valley sport with only 5 league members is Men's soccer with EIU and WKU as non-affiliate members.

[roadwarrior]

This thread may have some of the most off-the-wall speculation I've seen.

And who do you suppose is responsible for most of it ?? xlolx

[MplsBison]

8 game schedules in a 10 team league DO NOT WORK.

They work better than 8 game schedules for 9 team leagues.


The only possible thing that could be considered as "not working" would be that each team wouldn't play one other team each season.


And that's such a non issue (ask the SEC, ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 about it) it's not even worth allowing into the discussion.

[Col Hogan]

5388

[BearsCountry]

They work better than 8 game schedules for 9 team leagues.


The only possible thing that could be considered as "not working" would be that each team wouldn't play one other team each season.


And that's such a non issue (ask the SEC, ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 about it) it's not even worth allowing into the discussion.

9 is the perfect number for football conference. 4/4 split and everybody plays each other. The only reason the SEC, Big 12 etc went higher is for the championship game.

[MplsBison]

10 is better than 9.

4/4 split and no byes during conference season plus an extra week to schedule NC games.



And as a side note, there's nothing stopping both YSU from leaving and InSU from droping. Then adding UND and USD would bring the Gateway back up to 9.

[FlyYtown]

Who Cares!
IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN--EVER!!!

That rumor has been flying around for years!

[BearsCountry]

10 is better than 9.

4/4 split and no byes during conference season plus an extra week to schedule NC games.


Teams want bye weeks during the conference season.

[MplsBison]

No they don't, they screw up the rhythm of the team.

[BearsCountry]

They do not. Especially in a conference like the Gateway when teams will get beat up week to week. A break during the conference season is needed.

[windwalker]

Somehow I kept thinking.. Hmmmm MVC Football??? I thought for sure someone was going to say Bradley was getting foorball back...

[MplsBison]

They do not. Especially in a conference like the Gateway when teams will get beat up week to week. A break during the conference season is needed.

A week does nothing as far as getting a team healthy. Any injury that would heal in a week is not a serious one and it wouldn't have slowed a player down.

All it does is ruin any timing that a team has built up over the season and take them out of the rhythm they were in.

[Maverick]

BSBison shows that he knows as much about sports medicine as he does about so many other things. How about this? Why don't you ask your coaches and athletic training staff and see if they concur with your statement about healing and messing up timing that has developed? They might surprise you and say that an off week can be of value. As always though your oversimplified version (of course simple-mindedness is your forte) does not take into account all the complexity that is a football season. Still when have you ever let reality interfere with your simpleton stance?

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[TheBisonator]

I don't ever.... EVER want to see UND and USD in the same football conference as NDSU and SDSU EVER AGAIN. EVER!!!

EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MplsBison]

That's childish.

It's in NDSU's best interest to have UND in our conferences.

[FlyYtown]

Insider News:
YSU and big news tomorrow afternoon. Big News; that is all I can say.

[TheBisonator]

That's childish.

It's in NDSU's best interest to have UND in our conferences.

NO

IT

IS

NOT

[TheBisonator]

Insider News:
YSU and big news tomorrow afternoon. Big News; that is all I can say.

Stadium expansion, maybe???

I bet YSU got a major donor of some kind...

[already123]

great idea!!

[FlyYtown]

Stadium expansion, maybe???

I bet YSU got a major donor of some kind...

Capacity: 20,630
Avg. Attendance: 16,500

Why do we need to expand?

[TheBisonator]

Capacity: 20,630
Avg. Attendance: 16,500

Why do we need to expand?

I thought you were planning on expanding the smaller side to the goal lines, something like 2,000 extra seats???

[FlyYtown]

I thought you were planning on expanding the smaller side to the goal lines, something like 2,000 extra seats???

Whomever told you that is completely wrong.
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[BearsCountry]

Clearly we all know that YSU is annoucing that its going to the MAC and Fighting Sioux and Coyotes will join the Gateway.

[TheBisonator]

Clearly we all know that YSU is annoucing that its going to the MAC and Fighting Sioux and Coyotes will join the Gateway.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Johnny5]

Clearly we all know that YSU is annoucing that its going to the MAC and Fighting Sioux and Coyotes will join the Gateway.

nah we are going straight to the big 10 xsmiley_wix xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[MplsBison]

NO

IT

IS

NOT

Yes it is.


Easy travel for team and fans and great competition.

Not to mention the rivalry.

[FlyYtown]

Historic Announcement... Remember- You heard it from GuinZone.com first; not the other board..... Like we were first to announce that Sian Cotton was kicked off the team.

[yote4ever]

I don't ever.... EVER want to see UND and USD in the same football conference as NDSU and SDSU EVER AGAIN. EVER!!!

EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess we'll just have to meet in the national championship game again. This time it's the Coyotes turn!!!

[NDSUguy]

I just spent about 30 minutes reading this whole thread... I wish I could get that time back... Anyways....

Anyone have a clue why MplsBison is so hard up on getting UxD to the Gateway? Where is the advantage for NDSU/SDSU? Please don't mention local teams, rivalry, or the likes... That's not an advantage unless we're struggling for money (which we are not). If we can afford to travel to the other gateway schools than why would we want UxD in the gateway?

[MplsBison]

Where is the advantage for NDSU/SDSU?

Cheap travel.

Guaranteed sell outs.

Traditional rivalry.



Can't get any better than that.

[BearsCountry]

Where is the advantage for THE GATEWAY?

Changed it for you.

[douglasdmb]

Cheap travel.

Guaranteed sell outs.

Traditional rivalry.



Can't get any better than that.

Could you take off your NDSU goggles for five minutes? That would mean guaranteed sellouts, cheap travel, and a traditional rivalry for two, maybe three, teams. Nobody else in the conference would be willing to do it. NDSU and SDSU barely got a unanimous vote from conference representatives because of the travel issue. What makes you think they'd want to add more travel expenses onto their rapidly growing budgets?

Also, a big selling point for NDSU and SDSU was the fact that their facilities were comparable to and/or better than other Gateway schools in size. Take a look at their stadium capacities:

Coughlin Alumni Stadium (SDSU): 16,000+
FargoDome (NDSU): 19,000+

Alerus Center (UND): 12,000+
DakotaDome (USD): 10,000+

If UND and USD were to join the Gateway today, they would have the two smallest stadiums in the conference. Face it, they just don't offer enough to the Gateway to justify the member schools spending any more money on travel.

I don't even know why I'm still arguing with you about this. You make my head hurt.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Gateway is a weird mix of schools, as is the MVC, but if any of you are hoping that the new center of gravity for the league will reside somewhere on the Dakota Marker, you're fooling yourselves. A better thought is the "Dakota Four" (somehow) making their own league in the future, but with the MVC being the premier mid-major men's b-ball team in the country, have fun trying to pry ANY MVC teams from that configuration.

Maybe two more MVC teams are interested/can be coerced into sponsoring scholly football, but aside from Wichita State it seems unlikely. Evansville wants non-scholly in the future, and Drake is committed to non-scholly. And Bradley and Creighton? Forget it.

If it were ever to happen, here's how it could play out:

MVC:
UNI
SIU
Illinois State
Missouri State
Indiana State
Wichita State
SEMO (just a shot in the dark)

Dakota Marker Conference:
UND
USD
NDSU
SDSU
Western Illinois
Youngstown State
Eastern Illinois (another shot in the dark)

PFL/Non-scholly:
Dayton
Drake
Evansville
Detroit
Valpo
+ others

[BearsCountry]

The MVC is a little weird in its makeup but not really. 6 public schools with basicallly the same makeup expect Wichita State doesnt have football and the 4 privates who for the most part are similar expect Drake has football. Fairly balanced league all the way around. I have said this before but I think you will see football as something that will either tear apart the MVC or make it a stronger prescence in the future. Its very stable now but its a big question mark in the future IMO.

[MplsBison]

NDSU and SDSU barely got a unanimous vote from conference representatives because of the travel issue.

But they did get in.

UND and USD offer the exact same thing as NDSU and SDSU.


Therefore, they too would (barely) get in.

[BearsCountry]

But they did get in.

UND and USD offer the exact same thing as NDSU and SDSU.


Therefore, they too would (barely) get in.

We got the two schools we wanted, we do not need anymore schools from the Dakotas. It would take at least two members leaving and the only one that right now would is Youngstown and they arent. Indiana State isnt dropping football like you want.

[NDSUguy]

But they did get in.

UND and USD offer the exact same thing as NDSU and SDSU.


Therefore, they too would (barely) get in.

Ah... The art of flawed logic. xconfusedx

This is not going to happen for all the reasons that BearsCountry has stated.... I just don't why as a Bison fan you are so hard up for the "rivalry".... It's been dead for quite some time and in my opinion we've moved on. Every year we draw more attendance and we already sell out games. We don't need UxD to do that and since we are not struggling for cash i'd much rather play teams that are established.

It's almost as if MplsBison is a Sioux fan in disguise..... NO other Bison fan would lobby so much for UND/USD.

[NDSUguy]

We got the two schools we wanted, we do not need anymore schools from the Dakotas. It would take at least two members leaving and the only one that right now would is Youngstown and they arent. Indiana State isnt dropping football like you want.

Hey BearsCountry... When you gonna update your signature to put NDSU and SDSU helmets in the mix???

[BearsCountry]

Hey BearsCountry... When you gonna update your signature to put NDSU and SDSU helmets in the mix???

Next year when you are on our schedule.:) That is what all the helmets represnt.

[NDSUguy]

Next year when you are on our schedule.:) That is what all the helmets represnt.

Ahhhh.... I missed the fact that some of the helmets were not Gateway teams...

[douglasdmb]

But they did get in.

That doesn't mean that UND and USD would too. Even if the future hypothetical circumstances were identical, which they wouldn't be, the Gateway would still take the Dakota States over the Dakotas.


UND and USD offer the exact same thing as NDSU and SDSU.

Do you even read what I post? NDSU and SDSU have the facilities that fit in with the rest of the Gateway, USD and UND don't. Also, NDSU and SDSU seem to draw better than the Dakota schools:

Attendance averages per game for 2006

NDSU = 16,377
SDSU = 9,652

UND = 8,827
USD = 8,054

SDSU's average isn't that great, but they showed that they're capable of drawing big crowds (15,248 for the UC-Davis game).

Once again, the XDSUs had more to offer than the UXDs.

[BearsCountry]

Also not to mention the extra trip to the Dakotas each year.

[MplsBison]

Indiana State isnt dropping football like you want.

I'll give them one more 1 win season before they go the way Evansville.

[MplsBison]

It's been dead for quite some time and in my opinion we've moved on.

This is one of the lies that the Bisonville faithful try to spread to anyone who will listen.


This isn't UNI. We didn't last play them 30 years ago.


We played them last in 2003. 4 years.


And I don't know about you, but that last game where they beat us in 2OT left a bad taste in my mouth and hungry for more!



Any person who dares claim the opposite is not a true NDSU football fan.

[MplsBison]

SDSU = 9,652

UND = 8,827
USD = 8,054




This basically says it all.


And SDSU has had a considerable jump in average attendance with the move to DI. Esp with last season's run for the GWFC title.


UND and USD could match that.


As well, both UND and USD have drawn large crowds (esp vs NDSU and SDSU).

[TheBisonator]

UND and USD could match that.


No, UND and USD CAN'T match that, because their stadiums are TOO SMALL. At least SDSU has the capability of averaging 15,000+ in a season. (which could be very soon, IMO.) Neither of the UxD's have ever had 14,000 fans attend one of their home games in their ENTIRE HISTORY, let alone 15 or 16,000.

One huge reason why the Gateway accepted the xDSU's is because they knew we were both capable of drawing 16,000-19,000 fans in a game. The UxD's CAN NOT. USD could get up to 9,000-per and UND could get up to 11,000-per, but it wouldn't matter to the Gateway, because those figures would reflect near-sellouts every week. Both UxD's would have to build new stadiums to have the capability of attracting 15-20,000 per game like the xDSU's can do.

[TheBisonator]

Stadium capacities:

NDSU - FargoDome: 19,287
SDSU - Coughlin Alumni Stadium: 16,000


UND - Alerus Center: 12,258
USD - DakotaDome: 10,000

There's a big difference.

[douglasdmb]

UND and USD could match that.

Honestly, do you read what I post?!?

xnutsx

[douglasdmb]

I'll give them one more 1 win season before they go the way Evansville.

I've heard that Indiana State might be building an on-campus football stadium. If this is true, you can count them in.

[Hansel]

Yeah because that has anything to do with football travel when every team charters planes.

wouldn't it be better for the teams to fly to minneapolis and then get rental cars and drive to fargo?

[BisBison]

Honestly, do you read what I post?!?

xnutsx

Ummm we're not sure if mpls can read at all.xsmhx

[MplsBison]

Both UxD's would have to build new stadiums to have the capability of attracting 15-20,000 per game like the xDSU's can do.

Or simply expand.

And neither NDSU or SDSU can acheive 20k at a game yet.

[MplsBison]

I've heard that Indiana State might be building an on-campus football stadium.

If Indiana State actually had football fans who posted on message boards, maybe you heard wishful thinking.

But they don't even have that.

They have negative support for football, not even zero support.

Bball is their game and that's about it. Fball is just holding them back.

[SDFS]

That doesn't mean that UND and USD would too. Even if the future hypothetical circumstances were identical, which they wouldn't be, the Gateway would still take the Dakota States over the Dakotas.



Do you even read what I post? NDSU and SDSU have the facilities that fit in with the rest of the Gateway, USD and UND don't. Also, NDSU and SDSU seem to draw better than the Dakota schools:

Attendance averages per game for 2006

NDSU = 16,377
SDSU = 9,652

UND = 8,827
USD = 8,054

SDSU's average isn't that great, but they showed that they're capable of drawing big crowds (15,248 for the UC-Davis game).

Once again, the XDSUs had more to offer than the UXDs.

I am not sure that I agree with you in your assessment of the facilities at UND or USD or with your assessment of attendance figures. Please see the Gateway and UND regular season averages for 2006:

Gateway:

1. YSU 15,159
2. ISU 12,804
3. UNI 11,120
4. WIU 10,701
5. MSU 10,045
6. SIU 9,508
7. WKU 9,051
8. ISU 3,059

UND Regular Season Attendance: 9,578

As you can see, UND would be about 500 off of the attendance for MSU and very well represented within the conference. I would also like to note that UND attendance is at the D II level and many of the regional rivals which have been very large draws in the past have left the conference recently (UNC, SDSU and NDSU) thus down grading the regular season schedule. I would also like to note the last season that NDSU was at D II level the average regular season attendance was 11,567, it is now 16,000. So, as you can see the attendance has increased with the transition to FCS. One can not guarantee that attendance will increase with UND transition to FCS, but it is my point of view that a lot more fans would rather see Cal Poly or UCD than Winona St. or U of Min Duluth (no offense to these programs) thus I would expect a sizeable increase in attendance in the near future.

In addition, you can not judge facilities just on capacity. Any school can dump 4,000 bleacher seats in an end zone and call it an upgrade. Both USD and UND have very fine FCS level football facilities.

Home of the Fighting Sioux Football:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Alerus_Center.png

As an FYI, a 50 million dollar hotel/entertainment center has just been completed adjoining the Alerus Center.

[TheBisonator]

UND's avg. attendance last year was 8,827. Not 9,578.

[FlyYtown]

I still think that YSU-JMU attendance was 16-17,000; about 6k more than they actually said was there; but whatever.

Do the average REGULAR Season attendance for all those games, and you will see YSU is a lot more than 15.1k

[SDFS]

Other links to UND facilities:

Football:

http://fightingsioux.xosn.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=736149

Basketball/Hockey

[Bhttp://fightingsioux.xosn.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=736148[/B]

[douglasdmb]

I am not sure that I agree with you in your assessment of the facilities at UND or USD or with your assessment of attendance figures. Please see the Gateway and UND regular season averages for 2006:

Gateway:

1. YSU 15,159
2. ISU 12,804
3. UNI 11,120
4. WIU 10,701
5. MSU 10,045
6. SIU 9,508
7. WKU 9,051
8. ISU 3,059

UND Regular Season Attendance: 9,578

As you can see, UND would be about 500 off of the attendance for MSU and very well represented within the conference. I would also like to note that UND attendance is at the D II level and many of the regional rivals which have been very large draws in the past have left the conference recently (UNC, SDSU and NDSU) thus down grading the regular season schedule. I would also like to note the last season that NDSU was at D II level the average regular season attendance was 11,567, it is now 16,000. So, as you can see the attendance has increased with the transition to FCS. One can not guarantee that attendance will increase with UND transition to FCS, but it is my point of view that a lot more fans would rather see Cal Poly or UCD than Winona St. or U of Min Duluth (no offense to these programs) thus I would expect a sizeable increase in attendance in the near future.

In addition, you can not judge facilities just on capacity. Any school can dump 4,000 bleacher seats in an end zone and call it an upgrade. Both USD and UND have very fine FCS level football facilities.

Home of the Fighting Sioux Football:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Alerus_Center.png

As an FYI, a 50 million dollar hotel/entertainment center has just been completed adjoining the Alerus Center.

That's a pretty fair assessment all around (except for UND's attendance figure). I didn't know about how much NDSU's has changed since jumping to Div. I.

Still, I strongly feel that even if UND and USD made stadium upgrades that put them in the same range as the average Gateway school, the Gateway wouldn't take them based on the travel expenses alone, not to mention the other factors. Do you disagree, SDFS?

[douglasdmb]

If Indiana State actually had football fans who posted on message boards, maybe you heard wishful thinking.

But they don't even have that.

They have negative support for football, not even zero support.

Bball is their game and that's about it. Fball is just holding them back.

http://www.valleytalk.net/showthread.php?t=4838

Did you ever stop and think that there ARE some FCS fans who don't know about this site or choose not to talk football on here? Neither did I. xpeacex

Now, just so you don't come back with a post that says "I still don't see any Indiana State fans talking about building a stadium", I'm letting you know right now that I just posted a link that shows a real-life Sycamore fan talking about stadium rumors.

As for the rest of your post, you're right, Indiana State doesn't get any considerable support for football. They did just get a new athletic director who is very progressive, however, who has already signed a great men's basketball coach. There is momentum in the Sycamore community, and things are on their way up.

The only way I could see them leaving the Gateway is if the commissioner came out and said that the conference was adding two more schools from the Dakotas and they'd be forced to pony up even more dough for travel.

[SDFS]

UND's avg. attendance last year was 8,827. Not 9,578.

I am not looking for a fight on these numbers, but these are the numbers that I have for regular season home game attendance. They had 5 home games:

10,333
9,007
11,463
8,009
9,079

Average - 9,578

I am only trying to make three points:

1) You are comparing D-II attendance numbers against FCS attendance numbers. Plus you add in the fact of the down graded schedules with several schools leaving the NCC recently. It is not an apples to apples comparison. I my opinion you can add easily 1,000 to 2,000 to those attendance numbers for both of the UxD schools in the near future.

2) It was implied that the existing attendance averages were not comparable to other schools in the Gateway Conference. So, I thought that the Gateway Conference must average about 15,000 a game. The average attendance for Gateway Conference was 9,864 in 2004 and 10,086 in 2005 (latest numbers that I could find). I would say UND is very comparable to teams in the Gateway. The only program that is in the 15,000 to 17,000 area is YSU and NDSU starting next year.

3) Another statement was that UND's football facility does not match up with the Gateway and I would say that the UND football facilities are very nice. Some people like outdoor vs. indoor, I prefer outdoor also but the facility is on par if not better than many of the Gateway Conference facilities. Note, I say this without attending any of the Gateway facilities in person only viewing them online. So, I can not take game atmosphere into account which I think is important. But, I think a number of the Gateway Conference schools would take UND's facilities over what they have and the Gateway Conference has some very nice facilities at YSU, UNI, MSU and NDSU.

Again, not looking for a fight I just think people are a little too dismissive and not aware of what all four of the Dakota schools have to offer. If I were to rate the four Dakota schools ten years from now in terms of FCS success. It would be as follows:

1) NDSU
2) UND - very close second
3) SDSU
4) USD - I give the advantage to SDSU over USD because of the four year head start. The big plus that I have for USD is the coach. I really like USD's head coach.

In general, all four schools have very good head coaches. Because of this I think all four of the programs are going to be successful at the FCS level.

[SDFS]

I still think that YSU-JMU attendance was 16-17,000; about 6k more than they actually said was there; but whatever.

Do the average REGULAR Season attendance for all those games, and you will see YSU is a lot more than 15.1k

I noticed your REGULAR Season comment and went back to the Gateway website and I missed the *playoff games note.. so yes the numbers are off a bit across the board.. It should be regular season equal to 16,471. Sorry about that I was on a late night conference call and got caught by the notes.

[douglasdmb]

1) You are comparing D-II attendance numbers against FCS attendance numbers. Plus you add in the fact of the down graded schedules with several schools leaving the NCC recently. It is not an apples to apples comparison. I my opinion you can add easily 1,000 to 2,000 to those attendance numbers for both of the UxD schools in the near future.

I may be comparing FCS numbers against D-II, you're right, but you also have to look at the home schedules of NDSU and SDSU.

NDSU drew really well last year, even in boring matchups. Could they have drawn 1,000 to 2,000 to each of these games?

Concordia-St. Paul @ NDSU = 15,609
Mississippi Valley St. @ NDSU = 16,384

SDSU drew really well for the more anticipated games at home, but drew pretty poorly for the boring games. Could they have drawn 1,000 to 2,000 to each of the boring games? I'd say probably more than that.

William Penn (Iowa) @ SDSU = 4,211
UC-Davis @ SDSU = 15,248
UCA @ SDSU = 12,332
Wisconsin-La Crosse @ SDSU = 6,817



2) It was implied that the existing attendance averages were not comparable to other schools in the Gateway Conference. So, I thought that the Gateway Conference must average about 15,000 a game. The average attendance for Gateway Conference was 9,864 in 2004 and 10,086 in 2005 (latest numbers that I could find). I would say UND is very comparable to teams in the Gateway. The only program that is in the 15,000 to 17,000 area is YSU and NDSU starting next year.

You're right, those numbers do compare pretty easily with conference members.



3) Another statement was that UND's football facility does not match up with the Gateway and I would say that the UND football facilities are very nice. Some people like outdoor vs. indoor, I prefer outdoor also but the facility is on par if not better than many of the Gateway Conference facilities. Note, I say this without attending any of the Gateway facilities in person only viewing them online. So, I can not take game atmosphere into account which I think is important. But, I think a number of the Gateway Conference schools would take UND's facilities over what they have and the Gateway Conference has some very nice facilities at YSU, UNI, MSU and NDSU.

While it may be true that UND and USD have "nice" facilities, I only said that they had smaller stadiums (by seating capacity) than any of the other Gateway schools.

[SDFS]

That's a pretty fair assessment all around (except for UND's attendance figure). I didn't know about how much NDSU's has changed since jumping to Div. I.

Still, I strongly feel that even if UND and USD made stadium upgrades that put them in the same range as the average Gateway school, the Gateway wouldn't take them based on the travel expenses alone, not to mention the other factors. Do you disagree, SDFS?

I must have some off numbers on the UND attendance thing a couple people have commented. I have posted the figures that I have from the web for the regular season. I am not sure how official they are but I got them off a box scores for regular season.

My thoughts on Gateway/UxD is that the discussions might be premature at this point. A lot can change in two or three years, you have a number of schools that could trigger big change: Montana, San Diego, Sac St., or YSU. When those types of things happen the extra miles is not that big of a deal when you are looking to regain overall stability.

I think it will take that type of event for UxD to move from GreatWest Conference. I am not saying that the UxD would be a bad schools for GreatWest, Big Sky, Gateway or MVC Football. I think any conference would be smart to have UxD schools and they would provide an immediate up grade over the bottom feeders of those conferences. But, UxD is going to be with the GreatWest until a FCS west school announces it is going to FBS or wants to move to another conference. I am not sure that a conference is going to expand to take them.

That being said, I am not sure that the UxD need to expand its football facilities to get into the Gateway conference. If the conference averages 10,000 a game and your facility supports that and you are already drawing that number or slightly more. I am not sure that you need to expand the facility. You should only expand your facilities if you have the demand for more. Now, I do feel that UND will be getting close to capacity with the transition to FCS. They average around 8,800 to 9,500 depending on source of data in a 12,000 to 13,000 seat facility. I think it is reasonable to expect an increase of around 2,000. So, you are looking at 11,000 in a 12,000 to 13,000 seat facility. I can see some type of discussions starting in the near future.

I will say that the Gateway was very smart to get xDSU when they did because the GreatWest was on its way to be coming a very solid autobid conference with the addition of UxD and I am not sure they would have left if GreatWest had an autobid.

Personally, I really like the idea of the Great West Conference if they can get one more school. Poly and UCD with new facilities and the UxD have nice facilities and all four of those schools have a strong coaching. Plus SUU has some signs of life. Work to get some nice OCC games with Gateway, and Southland not a bad mix.

My conference call is over - good night all..

[BearsCountry]

I see UXD's future in football with some future move ups from D2.

[NDSUguy]

My xtwocentsx

this is really a pretty silly thread. UxD to the gateway will not happen. I would say there are better chances that they get into the BigSky.

[AmsterBison]

I never say never... well, almost never. Sure, the U's of South and North Dakota could end up in the Gateway (or MVC-Football) but it doesn't make sense to add the Dakota U's until they sort out their conference affiliation for their other sports and show they can handle the transition to (I'd expect them to do OK but you never know).

Heck, even if more schools leave the Gateway, there isn't any rush - by that time, there might be other options out there anyway.

One thing I am pretty confident about: The Dakota U's have to get invited to join the Summit for their other sports before the Gateway/MVC will even think about adding them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I never say never... well, almost never. Sure, the U's of South and North Dakota could end up in the Gateway (or MVC-Football) but it doesn't make sense to add the Dakota U's until they sort out their conference affiliation for their other sports and show they can handle the transition to (I'd expect them to do OK but you never know).

Heck, even if more schools leave the Gateway, there isn't any rush - by that time, there might be other options out there anyway.

One thing I am pretty confident about: The Dakota U's have to get invited to join the Summit for their other sports before the Gateway/MVC will even think about adding them.

The problem as I see it is as soon as you accept all four Dakota schools, the center of gravity of the conference BECOMES the Dakota Marker. I don't think any existing conference wants that. That's why my crystal ball sees a new conference down the road, since the power of those Dakota rivalries are simply too good to pass up and no conference wants to shift their conferences' center of gravity.

Add to this that the Gateway, essentially, is a "marriage of convenience" for a bunch of MVC schools (plus others) who are interested in championship football, and you've got something interesting there. What's stopping Western Illinois and Youngstown from going from the Gateway to a true conference for all sports with a center of gravity in the Dakotas? Add EIU (whose fans are not enamored by the OVC) and all of a sudden you have a powerhouse conference. Seriously, who's the patsy there? USD? And six of the schools would have intense rivalries, with Youngstown State a perennial FCS championship contender on top of that adding fuel to the fire.

But I agree there is no rush for change - and the impetus would come from the four Dakotas. They will all have to be D-I and show great strength in FCS over time to prove their case - but NDSU and SDSU, nobody can argue, has made an excellent case for at least 50% of the four Dakota schools.

[BearsCountry]

The problem as I see it is as soon as you accept all four Dakota schools, the center of gravity of the conference BECOMES the Dakota Marker. I don't think any existing conference wants that. That's why my crystal ball sees a new conference down the road, since the power of those Dakota rivalries are simply too good to pass up and no conference wants to shift their conferences' center of gravity.

Add to this that the Gateway, essentially, is a "marriage of convenience" for a bunch of MVC schools (plus others) who are interested in championship football, and you've got something interesting there. What's stopping Western Illinois and Youngstown from going from the Gateway to a true conference for all sports with a center of gravity in the Dakotas? Add EIU (whose fans are not enamored by the OVC) and all of a sudden you have a powerhouse conference. Seriously, who's the patsy there? USD? And six of the schools would have intense rivalries, with Youngstown State a perennial FCS championship contender on top of that adding fuel to the fire.

But I agree there is no rush for change - and the impetus would come from the four Dakotas. They will all have to be D-I and show great strength in FCS over time to prove their case - but NDSU and SDSU, nobody can argue, has made an excellent case for at least 50% of the four Dakota schools.

Or the MVC can kill all of that with one swipe and add NDSU and SDSU thus killing any potential super league. xrolleyesx Which by the way that league would be horrible in all other sports expect football. Also I doubt WIU wants to give away its money games at the gate with SIU, UNI, Illinois St.

[SDFS]

I may be comparing FCS numbers against D-II, you're right, but you also have to look at the home schedules of NDSU and SDSU.

NDSU drew really well last year, even in boring matchups. Could they have drawn 1,000 to 2,000 to each of these games?

Concordia-St. Paul @ NDSU = 15,609
Mississippi Valley St. @ NDSU = 16,384

SDSU drew really well for the more anticipated games at home, but drew pretty poorly for the boring games. Could they have drawn 1,000 to 2,000 to each of the boring games? I'd say probably more than that.

William Penn (Iowa) @ SDSU = 4,211
UC-Davis @ SDSU = 15,248
UCA @ SDSU = 12,332
Wisconsin-La Crosse @ SDSU = 6,817



You're right, those numbers do compare pretty easily with conference members.



While it may be true that UND and USD have "nice" facilities, I only said that they had smaller stadiums (by seating capacity) than any of the other Gateway schools.


I am not sure what you mean with a couple of your first comments. But, overall I am saying that attendance at UxD will more than likely improve with the transition to FCS because of improved competition.

I absolutely agree with you that UxD facilities do not have the capacity of other Gateway Conference schools. But, I believe the average attendance would be comparable.

I am fairly new to the FCS discussion board. Sorry, if I hijacked this thread a bit or borings other with UxD info overload - nice discussion douglasdmb

[MplsBison]

Concordia-St. Paul @ NDSU = 15,609
Mississippi Valley St. @ NDSU = 16,384


Concordia was the 1st game of the year and Miss Valley was homecoming.


We always draw well to those games. Doesn't matter who we play.


But thankfully we'll have UC Davis as homecoming this year.

[MplsBison]

The problem as I see it is as soon as you accept all four Dakota schools, the center of gravity of the conference BECOMES the Dakota Marker.


4 schools don't create a center of anything in a 10-12 team conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

4 schools don't create a center of anything in a 10-12 team conference.

It does if it houses all the best rivalries. Never mind NDSU/SDSU, try NDSU/UND and SDSU/USD.

And just try getting something passed if 1/3 of the schools of the conference are against it. Esepcially in the football-only Gateway which is sprawled out from Missouri to Ohio.

[MplsBison]

It does if it houses all the best rivalries. Never mind NDSU/SDSU, try NDSU/UND and SDSU/USD.

UND/USD has been pretty feirce the last coupe of years too.


But I doubt those 4 would be anywhere near the top when you consider the Illinois schools and UNI. Even if you take out YSU.


And just try getting something passed if 1/3 of the schools of the conference are against it. Esepcially in the football-only Gateway which is sprawled out from Missouri to Ohio.

Who says the Dakota 4 will always agree on voting issues?


It's 370 mi from Grand Forks to Vermilion.

[AmsterBison]

The problem as I see it is as soon as you accept all four Dakota schools, the center of gravity of the conference BECOMES the Dakota Marker. I don't think any existing conference wants that. That's why my crystal ball sees a new conference down the road, since the power of those Dakota rivalries are simply too good to pass up and no conference wants to shift their conferences' center of gravity.

Well, I agree on some of that. I just hate to be too negative about the Dakota U's doing whatever they want because, gosh knows, I had my fill of that kind of "ill-wishful" thinking when the shoe was on the other foot.

Personally, I don't really think that the Gateway will ever add more Dakota teams. Sure, it could happen, but the Dakota U's have to get their conference situation set for their other sports before it becomes even a remote possibility. One thing I can assure everybody of: Adding the Dakota U's will not move the center of power in the Gateway to the Dakotas... if anything, UND cancels out NDSU as you can pretty much bet if NDSU takes one position, UND will take an opposing one. OTOH, even if the power doesn't shift to the Dakotas, I'm not sure that's the NDSU-UND dynamic is something that any conference would want; it's too destructive.

That dynamic is one reason that NDSU will never voluntarily leave the Gateway (as it is now) to join a new conference of upper midwest schools.

[MplsBison]

I'm not sure that's the NDSU-UND dynamic is something that any conference would want; it's too destructive.

More bisonville lies told to anyone who will listen.


95% of NDSU and UND fans have the utmost respect for the opposing school and cherished the rivalry in a respectful way.


It's you 5% that pretend to be representing the majority that ruin things for everyone else.

[douglasdmb]

Concordia was the 1st game of the year and Miss Valley was homecoming.

We always draw well to those games. Doesn't matter who we play.

Fair enough. Regardless of what the "event" was (homecoming, opening day, etc.), however, don't you think that more people might have gone had their been a more attractive opponent?


nice discussion douglasdmb

Agreed. We needed an actual rep. from UND/USD for this discussion rather than MplsBison, even though many here believe that he is a closet UND fan.

xthumbsupx

[MplsBison]

I'm a fan of ND.

Whenever they aren't playing NDSU, I always root for the ND schools.

[SDFS]

Fair enough. Regardless of what the "event" was (homecoming, opening day, etc.), however, don't you think that more people might have gone had their been a more attractive opponent?



Agreed. We needed an actual rep. from UND/USD for this discussion rather than MplsBison, even though many here believe that he is a closet UND fan.

xthumbsupx

Well I just want to make sure that you understand that I am not an insider. Just my $0.02... now I have to go back to my DII world xwhistlex

[No_Skill]

More bisonville lies told to anyone who will listen.


95% of NDSU and UND fans have the utmost respect for the opposing school and cherished the rivalry in a respectful way.


It's you 5% that pretend to be representing the majority that ruin things for everyone else.

I'd love to see the data to back that up.

[MplsBison]

I don't have the numbers but it's nothing like what Bisonville would have you believe.


According to them Lehigh v Lafayette, Michigan v Ohio State, Florida v Georgia, USC v UCLA, Texas v Oklahoma, etc can't be a good rivalry or good for either school since they're in the same conference.

[FargoBison]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if UND was in every conference NDSU is in. It kind of kicks things up a few knotches when your main rival is in the mix.

That said, NDSU and SDSU are not the schools UND and USD have to sell themselves to. I doubt either XDSU will lobby for their instate rivals either so the two will need to bring forth a strong reason why the other Gateway schools would need them. Keep in mind both schools have no conference home yet(makes them a flight risk) and the fact that the XDSU's got in by one vote(mainly because location). I think you would have to be kidding yourself if you don't think the UXD's are facing a huge uphill battle when it comes to membership. The Gateway would definately have to lose two members for any action for further Dakota expansion to happen IMO.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Is the Gateway changing its name to the MVC all but a done deal?

[AmsterBison]

My normal rule for MplsBison is to grit my teeth and ignore the guy, but I'll bite this one last time (don't like having my opinion labelled a lie). I'd agree that the vast majority of people who care about the rivalry do cherish it and are respectful - heck, in my experience, that's default North Dakota behavior. However, it doesn't matter when the administration and/or power structure at NDSU and/or UND differ from than the majority. Seriously, if the rivalry was so dang classy and so dearly cherished, we wouldn't be going on four years without a contest in any sport but baseball (and that was only the first year). I certainly believe that there is an extremely poor relationship between high levels at NDSU and UND. I also think this situation, if not addressed, will hurt UND's chances of getting into the a conference with NDSU. If folks disagree with me on this, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm lying; heck, I could just be an idiot.

Hehe, anyway I'm missing most of the followup posts since MplsBison has now become the sole occupant of my ignore list, but nonetheless I'll defend him this much: I don't think MplsBison is a UND fan posing as an NDSU fan. Then again, there is no way he is a North Dakotan; I can't help but wonder how differently MplsBison might have turned out if he had grown up in North Dakota :)

[MplsBison]

Keep in mind both schools have no conference home yet(makes them a flight risk) and the fact that the XDSU's got in by one vote(mainly because location).

They'll both be in the SL fairly quickly.


Also, they'll both have 2 extra votes from NDSU/SDSU that those schools didn't have the luxury of getting.

[NDSUguy]

They'll both be in the SL fairly quickly.


Also, they'll both have 2 extra votes from NDSU/SDSU that those schools didn't have the luxury of getting.

a few thoughts...


1. NDSU/SDSU would NOT vote for UxD to join the Gateway. We like being the only schools in our respective states that are in a viable football conference. The GWFC will ALWAYS be in flux (until they get an autobid...which may never happen). Their instability will cause the Gateway to always be higher regarded.
2. NDSU/SDSU would not vote them in because of their location. We aren't hard up for money and having to fly (on average) one less time per year for football isn't worth it.
3. UxD is not going to be in the Summit league anytime soon. The SL does not need any more members and there is NO love by the administration to turn it into a 12 team league with an east/west division.

Also... Regarding 95% of NDSU/UND fans having respect for the other school. You know that is not true... Have you been to a NDSU/UND football game? Schools whose students and administrators hate each other can't by definition have respect for the other team. When students chant "F*** the Bison" and we in turn say "Sioux suck Sh**" that shows no respect for that school (and those things are just the tip of the iceburg).

By contrast... NDSU respects SDSU (but we still want to beat them). We don't cheer against them because we're like brothers man!

[JBB]

More bisonville lies told to anyone who will listen.

95% of NDSU and UND fans have the utmost respect for the opposing school and cherished the rivalry in a respectful way.

It's you 5% that pretend to be representing the majority that ruin things for everyone else.


They wont be in the Summit or the Gateway. The Mighty Land Grants are lucky to be in. Travel issues almost sunk it, that coupled with the fact there werent any better choices and we could pay the hefty Gateway entrance fee.

In the future if those conferences need replacements there are going to be better options available for the majority of conference members. Nobody is going to select Und if they had a problem with NDSUs location. In fact, the only school that might have a chance is USD. I wouldnt tether myself to close to Und if I were the USD AD.

Even if the decision were in the hands of the Mighty Land Grants we will go along with the schools that made it possible for us.

I give the chances of seeing one or both of those move ups at near zero for playing an out of conference game in the Fabulous Fargo Dome. They bring nothing to the table for us and our limited home dates are too precious to waste.

[MplsBison]

We like being the only schools in our respective states that are in a viable football conference.

Being the only school from North Dakota in the Gateway does nothing for NDSU in any aspect of college football.



We aren't hard up for money and having to fly (on average) one less time per year for football isn't worth it.

Having UND gives us a cheap bus trip and a guaranteed sellout the other year.

No school turns that down just because they aren't desperate for cash.


When students chant "F*** the Bison" and we in turn say "Sioux suck Sh**" that shows no respect for that school

Like I said, a 5% vocal minority who like to pretend they represent the majority ruin everything for the rest of us.

[MplsBison]

Travel issues almost sunk it

Like I said, UND/USD will have the benefit of having NDSU/SDSU voting for them.

That cancels out the effect of minor programs like Missouri St and Indiana St.



They bring nothing to the table for us and our limited home dates are too precious to waste.

They bring a guaranteed sell out.


That's all that has to be said.

[BearsCountry]

Like I said, UND/USD will have the benefit of having NDSU/SDSU voting for them.

That cancels out the effect of minor programs like Missouri St and Indiana St.


Yeah we are some minor program. xrolleyesx We might not have the record but our budget, stadium, and status in the Valley makes us a more powerful member than you think.

[MplsBison]

As this is a football only message board and we're discussing the Gateway football conference, I did not take MSU's MVC basketball program into consideration.


Quite obviously they have a superior bball program and the new arena will only put them into the next higher level.

[BearsCountry]

As this is a football only message board and we're discussing the Gateway football conference, I did not take MSU's MVC basketball program into consideration.


Quite obviously they have a superior bball program and the new arena will only put them into the next higher level.

And I didnt say anything about basketball in my post.

[MplsBison]

And I didnt say anything about basketball in my post.


our budget, stadium, and status in the Valley makes us a more powerful member than you think.

Bolded.

[BearsCountry]

Bolded.

Status in the Valley as a member in it, bc the MVC runs the Gateway.

[NDSUguy]

Being the only school from North Dakota in the Gateway does nothing for NDSU in any aspect of college football.




Having UND gives us a cheap bus trip and a guaranteed sellout the other year.

No school turns that down just because they aren't desperate for cash.



Like I said, a 5% vocal minority who like to pretend they represent the majority ruin everything for the rest of us.

You just don't get it...

NDSU/SDSU will NOT screw over the other members of the Gateway just because these games (every other year) would give us a sellout... How many less seats would we sell to an existing Gateway team??? Not many. Sure, it may not sell out but we're not talking thousands of extra tickets. Hell, we drew over 15k for Concordia St. Paul.

Being in the Gateway and our main instate rival being in a less desirable league DOES do something for NDSU from a marketing perspective! We will year in and year out be playing against national championship contenders. UxD will NOT be doing that with the current GWFC teams. It's all about marketing. UND's conference football schedule will be far less exciting than that of NDSU/SDSU. Hell, we will likely continue to schedule Davis/Poly non-conference for years to come.

There will be MUCH more buzz around NDSU football in the state than that of UND. That has nothing to do with the team itself but more to do with the schedule.

I don't know about you but.... every NDSU/UND game i've ever been to I have witnessed (and took part of) those chants. It wasn't 5%... It was the whole friggin' student section! One third of the whole dome was chanting and screaming at the UND fans and players.

Now that is hostile and abusive! xwhistlex

[MplsBison]

Status in the Valley as a member in it, bc the MVC runs the Gateway.

Membership in the Valley gains a school nothing as far as the Gateway is concerned.


Last I checked, Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Wichita, and Creighton did not participate in any Gateway events.

[MplsBison]

NDSU/SDSU will NOT screw over the other members of the Gateway just because these games (every other year) would give us a sellout

We wouldn't be screwing anyone over.



How many less seats would we sell to an existing Gateway team???

This years game against IL State will go a long way in answering that question.

A crowd of 16k would be nice. But 16k is a long way from a sellout.

We also drew 10k for a game against a top 10 ranked Cal Poly in 04.


Being in the Gateway and our main instate rival being in a less desirable league DOES do something for NDSU from a marketing perspective!

Oh, so now they are our main rival.


You're right. What the heck are Michigan/Michigan State, Alabama/Auburn, Texas/TexasAM, USC/UCLA, etc. thinking?

It does absolutely nothing for them.


It was the whole friggin' student section!


Like I said, about 5%.

[BearsCountry]

Membership in the Valley gains a school nothing as far as the Gateway is concerned.


Last I checked, Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Wichita, and Creighton did not participate in any Gateway events.

I'm done arguing with you. You have no clue how anything in the Gateway/MVC works and all you want to do is spread your own agenda in getting North Dakota in the league. Something none of the other schools seem to care about or want to.

[MplsBison]

At the moment they don't care.

When Youngstown leaves and InSU drops, they will.

[douglasdmb]

At the moment they don't care.

When Youngstown leaves and InSU drops, they will.

MplsBison, meet my ignore list.

This statement that you just made and a few others confirm that you just will not listen to what other people are saying. You clearly refuse to take the other side of the argument into account when you talk. There's no such thing as constructive debate/conversation with you, buddy.

That'll save me some sanity and typing.

[bisonguy]

We wouldn't be screwing anyone over.




This years game against IL State will go a long way in answering that question.

A crowd of 16k would be nice. But 16k is a long way from a sellout.

We also drew 10k for a game against a top 10 ranked Cal Poly in 04.



Oh, so now they are our main rival.


You're right. What the heck are Michigan/Michigan State, Alabama/Auburn, Texas/TexasAM, USC/UCLA, etc. thinking?

It does absolutely nothing for them.




Like I said, about 5%.



11,834 (http://www.gobison.com/downloads1/1772.HTM?ATCLID=79892&SPID=695&DB_OEM_ID=2400&SPSID=11844)

[No_Skill]

Like I said, about 5%.

Did you not take math class or have you not seen the student section (not to mention the others in the dome chanting)?

[NDSUguy]

Citing other instate rivalries does nothing to convince me of the benefit of having UxD in the Gateway conference....

The 11k fans that we drew against Cal Poly in 04 is FAR from the reality now. The fact that we are drawing 15K+ against non-conference games shows me that we certainly would not benefit from a few thousand fans every other year.

If NDSU/SDSU voted to invite UxD they would be screwing over the other schools. Since it appears that most schools are worried about travel expenses (hence the close vote for NDSU/SDSU admission into the Gateway), it would be hard to justify putting further financial constraints on those schools when they were the ones who let us in.

[MplsBison]

have you not seen the student section?

4000 x 20 = 80000. That's probably even low for the total number of NDSU fans in North America.


But, at worst, it's still about 5% like I said.

[MplsBison]

Citing other instate rivalries does nothing to convince me of the benefit of having UxD in the Gateway conference

Nothing ever will.

You hate them. And for no real reason.


The fact that we are drawing 15K+ against non-conference games shows me that we certainly would not benefit from a few thousand fans every other year.


Yep, if you're averaging 15k a paycheck and your boss wants to give you 19k, you'll definately want to turn him down.


Good logic on that one.


If NDSU/SDSU voted to invite UxD they would be screwing over the other schools. Since it appears that most schools are worried about travel expenses


Lets assume that we're talking about Youngstown and Indiana State leaving and being replaced by UND and USD.


I guarantee no other Gateway school was busing to Youngstown. They were chartering.

So if you already have a charter, it makes no different where you fly to. The costs are the same.


Indiana State, OTOH, I could definitely see SIU, ISU, and WIU busing there. So it would be an increased travel cost for those schools.



This is easily solved by making UND and USD pay a travel subsidy to ease the increased expense

[JBB]

USD* would be a good opening game for the BISON in say 2008?

*University of South Dakota

[No_Skill]

4000 x 20 = 80000. That's probably even low for the total number of NDSU fans in North America.


But, at worst, it's still about 5% like I said.

I think our definitions of "fan" may differ.

There's a difference between fans who occasionally catch the score of the game and the ones who go to all of the games, soak in all the media has to offer, and post on these forums.

[MplsBison]

And yet you still pretend to represent anyone who ever went to NDSU.

[NDSUguy]

Nothing ever will.

You hate them. And for no real reason.




Yep, if you're averaging 15k a paycheck and your boss wants to give you 19k, you'll definately want to turn him down.


Good logic on that one.




Lets assume that we're talking about Youngstown and Indiana State leaving and being replaced by UND and USD.


I guarantee no other Gateway school was busing to Youngstown. They were chartering.

So if you already have a charter, it makes no different where you fly to. The costs are the same.


Indiana State, OTOH, I could definitely see SIU, ISU, and WIU busing there. So it would be an increased travel cost for those schools.



This is easily solved by making UND and USD pay a travel subsidy to ease the increased expense


Based on your assumption of Indiana St. dropping football and Youngstown moving up it still doesn't make sense for several reasons.

1. There are much much closer schools to the geographic center of the conference that would be candidates as well. The decision is easy if comparing UxD and the other schools who could be an easy bus ride away.
2. Flying to grand forks isn't exactly cheep/easy. It's much easier and likely cheeper to fly to Cleveland and bus in than to fly to Grand Forks. Sioux Falls on the other hand would be much easier/cheeper to get to.


And to top this off there is only speculation about Indiana State dropping football and the MAC has no interest in expanding to Youngstown.

It's all really a moot point. If one of those schools DOES leave... I would think that USD would be much more likely than UND to get in for obvious reasons.
Indinia St. hasn't talked about dropping.
4. the MAC is NOT looking to expand to youngstown. I'm not even sure that youngstown is really looking on moving up.

[RabidRabbit]

USD* would be a good opening game for the BISON in say 2008?

*University of South Dakota

USD or UND present the same non-counter issue in 2008, our first year of play-off eligibility.

Hopefully wait until 2009 for Sioux uprisings or Coyote hunting! xnodx xnodx xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. There are much much closer schools to the geographic center of the conference that would be candidates as well. The decision is easy if comparing UxD and the other schools who could be an easy bus ride away.

There are only two FCS schools that apply: EIU and SEMO. Both would be desirable, but are in the OVC for all sports, so... those "easy bus ride away" schools you're talking about ain't going to happen.


It's all really a moot point. If one of those schools DOES leave... I would think that USD would be much more likely than UND to get in for obvious reasons.

Don't be silly. UND and USD would come as a unit.


the MAC is NOT looking to expand to youngstown. I'm not even sure that youngstown is really looking on moving up.

The MAC will take what it can get. Any conference that takes.... TEMPLE... has no scruples about future members.

[MplsBison]

There are much much closer schools to the geographic center of the conference that would be candidates as well.

Go ahead and list them and I'll be happy to tell you why they aren't candidates.


Flying to grand forks isn't exactly cheep/easy.

It's the same price to charter a plan to Grand Forks, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Cleveland, or Youngstown.

If you've got the charter, you're not going to only fly to a big city and then bus. You're going to fly to the nearest airport that you plane can land at.

[MplsBison]

There are only two FCS schools that apply: EIU and SEMO. Both would be desirable, but are in the OVC for all sports, so... those "easy bus ride away" schools you're talking about ain't going to happen.



Another possibility might be Wichita State brining football back or Drake getting scholarships.

I've not heard anything on either of those.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Another possibility might be Wichita State brining football back or Drake getting scholarships.

I've not heard anything on either of those.

True - though Drake ain't a "easy bus ride away" from Missouri State or Youngstown either. And Wichita's further away than UND! I think Drake going scholly is a non-starter as they are happy with competing in the PFL.

[MplsBison]

Right.


If Indiana State drops and YSU leaves, you can bet the farm that the Gateway will look hard at UND and USD.

[BearsCountry]

Too bad Indiana State isnt dropping football so your little fantasy could come true.

[MplsBison]

What you mean is that you hope they don't.

That would ruin your fantasy of having Wichita in the Gateway.

[BearsCountry]

What you mean is that you hope they don't.

That would ruin your fantasy of having Wichita in the Gateway.

Not really, bc I wouldnt mind seeing the Shox play football since they are main rival but I dont obsess over it like you do with getting UND in the Gateway.

http://blog.fabrica.it/jgl/archives/images/obsession.jpghttp://www.logoserver.com/college/NorthDakotaFightingSioux7.GIF

[MplsBison]

I don't obsess over it like you do with Wichita.

[GoBears]

Not really, bc I wouldnt mind seeing the Shox play football since they are main rival but I dont obsess over it like you do with getting UND in the Gateway.

http://blog.fabrica.it/jgl/archives/images/obsession.jpghttp://www.logoserver.com/college/NorthDakotaFightingSioux7.GIF


I don't obsess over it like you do with Wichita.


Now now children, play nice. xnonox

[JBB]

If any schools from the GWFC are going to be considered for the Gateway it wont be the move ups, at least not for several years. I think the Gateway would look real hard at Cal Poly and UCD. Full fledged, proven, playoff eligible, and like somebody said, if your chartering whats the difference. They would be great additions if needed.

[MplsBison]

While it's true that the travel costs for the rest of the Gateway out to Poly and UCD every 2 years would be no different than coming out to the Dakotas twice every 2 years, the travel costs for UCD and Poly would be through the roof.

No way would they ever agree to it.

[Coyote Fan]

I think what needs to be remembered is what is best for the long term of a conference and not just the next couple of years. Cal-Davis or Poly or any west coast schools does not make sence in the long term. USD and UND probably do make sense in the long term and the stability issue would likely be looked upon favorably. There could be many other reasons not to take the UXD's but they are both attractive programs whether it be to the Gateway, MVC Conference or whomever.

[JBB]

I think they would take if offered. Both schools travel a lot now. If left alone in the GWFC again travel prospects wouldnt be much different.

In all likelyhood the Gateway wont ever need two teams, probably just one. SUU would be a strong candidate if that were the case.

A good BB program might help a school trying to get into the Gateway/Missouri Valley. Seems a logical place for the BB side to come looking should they ever need a member or two.

[MplsBison]

Both schools travel a lot now. If left alone in the GWFC again travel prospects wouldnt be much different.

But they don't travel as much as they would if they were in the Gateway.

Neither would accept.


SUU would be a strong candidate if that were the case.

SUU would not accept for the same reason that Poly and Davis would not.

SUU wants in the Big Sky.

[skinny_uncle]

I think they would take if offered. Both schools travel a lot now. If left alone in the GWFC again travel prospects wouldnt be much different.

In all likelyhood the Gateway wont ever need two teams, probably just one. SUU would be a strong candidate if that were the case.

A good BB program might help a school trying to get into the Gateway/Missouri Valley. Seems a logical place for the BB side to come looking should they ever need a member or two.

I don't think the Valley will be adding any basketball teams. They have ten which means they all still play a home-and-home with each other. They like it that way. I also don't foresee anyone leaving.

[BisonBacker]

I see UCD DI bound, SUU isn't getting into the Sky anytime soon. Not unless they are desperate and the Sky isn't desperate. Coyote fan the comment you made about the UXD's and including the MVC in your statement made me spill my coffee. That's not happening in your or my lifetime. UND is a hockey school first and foremost and every sport after that is an after thought. That fact will not make them an attractive candidate to many conferences. Conferences want a member who's focus is on the sports that conference promotes. Not a university who's focus is another sport that only draws funds away from the other sports the conference does have. USD has a better chance by itself IMHO as opposed to aligning themselves with UND becuase of that fact along with location. Your in a much better spot geographically then UND is. It worked out well for the XDSU's to partner up but in your case you may be better off alone without the baggage UND has to deal with. If the Summit does look at adding one or two I think you have a much better chance then does UND for being added based on what I just mentioned. Either way I do wish both UXD's luck in the transition. It's a difficult time with lots of ups and downs.

[MplsBison]

NDSU is a football school first and foremost and every sport after that is an after thought.

Yet the Summit took us.


SDSU is a basketball school first and foremost and every sport after that is an after thought.

Yet the Gateway took them.



Stop coming up with silly, childish fantasies where UND gets left in the dust.


It's really making NDSU fans, the majority of which have the utmost respect for UND, look foolish.

[BisonBacker]

NDSU is a football school first and foremost and every sport after that is an after thought.

Yet the Summit took us.


SDSU is a basketball school first and foremost and every sport after that is an after thought.

Yet the Gateway took them.



Stop coming up with silly, childish fantasies where UND gets left in the dust.

It's really making NDSU fans, the majority of which have the utmost respect for UND, look foolish.

You have come up with dam near every possibility of UND getting into any conference. You post almost exclusively over at the UND board so who do you think your fooling going by the name MPLSBison? The only one based on many comments I've read here by others (not NDSU or UND Fans either) where your comments were questioned proves the point that your ideas don't wash. You make ridiculous comments trying to bolster your arguement. What's so hard to understand about UND being a Hockey first and foremost university? Do you think the Gateway is going to look at that and say wow we really should add them since football is #2 behind hockey. Your act is getting old on every board you visit. I'm not so sure that you and Star2city are not one and the same. Certainly your fanstasy's are.

[BisonBacker]

One more thing, you didn't even attempt to counter my points or explain why my comments were wrong. Are you now going to try to say that UCD has no plans in the future of going DI? That's been talked about quite a bit. What about location, are you going to try to argue that UND is situated better geopgrahically then USD? Man give it up already and change your name to what it really is, MPLSioux!!!!!

[bisonguy]

You have come up with dam near every possibility of UND getting into any conference. You post almost exclusively over at the UND board so who do you think your fooling going by the name MPLSBison? The only one based on many comments I've read here by others (not NDSU or UND Fans either) where your comments were questioned proves the point that your ideas don't wash. You make ridiculous comments trying to bolster your arguement. What's so hard to understand about UND being a Hockey first and foremost university? Do you think the Gateway is going to look at that and say wow we really should add them since football is #2 behind hockey. Your act is getting old on every board you visit. I'm not so sure that you and Star2city are not one and the same. Certainly your fanstasy's are.


MplsBison is not a UND fan. Anyone that was active on Bisonville back in 2003/2004 should know his prior usernames, if nothing else, just for his FieldTurf comments.

[BisonBacker]

You'd never know it by his postings.

[MplsBison]

What's so hard to understand about UND being a Hockey first and foremost university? Do you think the Gateway is going to look at that and say wow we really should add them since football is #2 behind hockey.


What's so hard to understand about NDSU being a football first and foremost university? Do you think the Summit is going to look at that and say wow we really should add them since basketball is #2 behind football.

[MplsBison]

are you going to try to argue that UND is situated better geopgrahically then USD?

It's irrelevant as UND and USD are a package deal for any prospective conference just as NDSU and SDSU were.

[BisonBacker]

It's irrelevant as UND and USD are a package deal for any prospective conference just as NDSU and SDSU were.

Man you are dreaming again and making false statements to try to bolster your fantasy. Where has there been anything printed in the media about any kind of collaboration between UND and USD? There isn't any because you once again are making crap up which again shows how ridiculous your theory's are. You better notify USD's brass about this agreement as I'm sure they would love to know about it.

[BisonBacker]

What's so hard to understand about NDSU being a football first and foremost university? Do you think the Summit is going to look at that and say wow we really should add them since basketball is #2 behind football.

You just made my point for me thank you. Football is first at most university's and Basketball a close second. At UND Basketball is third on the list. How is this going to be a plus for the Summit? Explain that without making up a bunch of BS. Being this thread is about MVC rumors I guess for you to make up stuff to fit your story fine so be it but that's even less reason for the MVC if it was to happen to consider a university where the sport the conference is known for comes in at #3.

[MplsBison]

Where has there been anything printed in the media about any kind of collaboration between UND and USD?

UND and USD's athletic directors are both quoted as saying they will work together during the transition.

[BisonBacker]

UND and USD's athletic directors are both quoted as saying they will work together during the transition.

Lets see how fast you can back off your lie. First you say they are a package deal, now you say it's just working together. Where's the link where it says they are a package deal? You lied about it and you know it. If your going to make up BS you better be able to back it up. So where's the link that states (using your words now)
It's irrelevant as UND and USD are a package deal for any prospective conference just as NDSU and SDSU were.
USD's administration is waiting to see it I'm sure as is all of AGS.

[BisonBacker]

To use your own words


NDSU is a football school first and foremost and every sport after that is an after thought.

Yet the Summit took us.


SDSU is a basketball school first and foremost and every sport after that is an after thought.

Yet the Gateway took them.



Stop coming up with silly, childish fantasies where UND gets left in the dust.


It's really making NDSU fans, the majority of which have the utmost respect for UND, look foolish.

Actually it should say stop telling Lies to try to bolster your arguement. Who looks foolish??? No need to answer, anyone reading this thread can figure that out. Now I know why you only post on the Sioux board and not on either Bison Board. You'd be called out so fast on your fantasies it would make your head xrotatehx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[MplsBison]

You just made my point for me thank you.

The point I made was that if NDSU can get into the summit without basketball being the priority sport, so can UND.

[BisonBacker]

The point I made was that if NDSU can get into the summit without basketball being the priority sport, so can UND.

No the point is you LIED!!!

[BisonBacker]

I'm still waiting for that Link. Where is it? Is it just a silly childish fantasy?

[MplsBison]

I lied about NDSU getting into the Summit? No, that's true.

[MplsBison]

I'm still waiting for that Link. Where is it?

Go search the ArgusLeader yourself. I sure as heck won't waste my time doing it for you.

[BisonBacker]

Come on and Man up and just admit it. You look foolish and your credibility which is about as close to zero as one can get may even enter the negative range.xlolx So where's the link to back up this lie of yours.


It's irrelevant as UND and USD are a package deal for any prospective conference just as NDSU and SDSU were.

[BisonBacker]

Go search the ArgusLeader yourself. I sure as heck won't waste my time doing it for you.

Your the one that posted that crap so man up and give the link or admit your a liar.

[MplsBison]

I did not lie, it's there. And I won't give it to you.

[BisonBacker]

I did not lie, it's there. And I won't give it to you.


Your crediblity has just entered the negative range. You lied about it, you won't admit it and now everyone on AGS can determine when you post something just what the value of that post is. NOTHING, NADA ZERO. So once again using your words

Stop coming up with silly, childish fantasies

[BisonBacker]

So getting back to what this thread was about before MPLSioux's lies entered the fray I don't see the MVC drooling over a school where basketball is #3. As one other poster said the MVC probably won't be looking anyway.

[MplsBison]

You lied about it

Nope, didn't lie. It is there.

You're just too lazy to go look for it.

[MplsBison]

I don't see the MVC drooling over a school where basketball is #3


This thread is about the Gateway football conference changing its name to the MVC.


The Gateway would not consider basketball being the #3 sport as a negative for admitting UND into the conference.

[BisonBacker]

Nope, didn't lie. It is there.

You're just too lazy to go look for it.


Man I'm done arguing with you, your a liar, there is not story in the Argus leader and your not man enough to admit your a liar. I've even posted over on the USD site asking about this. I looked at the Sioux site and no mention of UND and USD being a package deal like NDSU and SDSU were. You got cuaght in a lie and you know it and now your only making yourself look foolish which isn't a first on this site or many others. Until you come up with the link to the story that backs up your claim your a liar and all of AGS can see it and judge for themsleves. I'm done wasting my time with you and your fantasy's. MPLSBison or MPLSioux as it should be is a liar.xnonox xnonox xnonox

[JBB]

But they don't travel as much as they would if they were in the Gateway.

Neither would accept.



SUU would not accept for the same reason that Poly and Davis would not.

SUU wants in the Big Sky.

Thats your opinion, but you have been wrong in the past. I remember you arguing that NDSU/SDSU would never get into the the then Mid Con. something about markets.

You have an opinion and I think its wrong. In fact, I think your opinion might be mutually exclusive to your desired outcome.

[MplsBison]

Man I'm done arguing with you, your[sic] a liar, there is not story in the Argus leader and your[sic] not man enough to admit your[sic] a liar.

I guess they didn't teach you the difference between your and you're.

[MplsBison]

I remember you arguing that NDSU/SDSU would never get into the the then Mid Con.

I have never said anything of the sort.

[BisonBacker]

I guess they didn't teach you the difference between your and you're.

Doesn't change the fact that you're (happy now) a LIAR.

[MplsBison]

You can keep posting that until your fingers fall off.

I'll be right here to remind you that I did not lie, it's there.

[BisonBacker]

I just emailed Terry V. who covers sports for the Argus Leader asking him about this story. I will let you know when I get a response (which I already know what it will be) but then again it will be proof that MPLSBison lied about this alleged package deal.

[MplsBison]

LOL!

I'm sure he's working on Saturday and checking his email constantly.

[JBB]

Its obvious there is no change in the Gateway if the name is changed. There will be no additions and if the MVC is as stable as another poster mentioned there will be no movement out. That means no Summit League/Gateway members could move over to the MVC/Gateway combination.

I dont see any movement out of the Gateway either. I dont see any expansion at all without some catalyst event.

Without that expansion is fancifull thinking. Everything about conference expansion seems to be predicated by a leap of faith in an unforseen future event.

One thing might be clear though. If a conference does need a football team the GWFC is probably a prime suspect for a candidate. I would think common sense dictates the full fledged divisional members would be approached first.

[MplsBison]

Without that expansion is fancifull thinking.


And for the billionth time, UND/USD to the Gateway is predicated on Youngstown leaving or InSU dropping.

[BisonBacker]

No he will answer it on Monday I'm sure. So what are you going to say then? You going to tell Terry he doesn't know what he's talking about? He only covers DI sports for the Argus Leader. You could just Man Up and admit you lied now you're only going to look even more foolish when he say's there is no such package deal.

[MplsBison]

He hasn't been working at the Argus that long. And on top of that, he's the SDSU beat writer. He doesn't have anything to do with USD.

I doubt he's going to remember every line from every story the Argus sport section has done in the last year. And I also doubt he's going to take time out of his busy day to look up stories for you when you could do it yourself if you weren't so lazy.

[JBB]

I know. Thats why I find it humerous that you seem to know exactly what is going to happen once the stars finally do line up. What have we learned so far:

1) The name change is not discouraged by the existing members
2) The name change will not cause conference membership changes
3) Gateway expansion will require a school to leave
4) If a school leaves mnplsbison will argue forever that no other choice but the UxDs can even be considered.

Although his crystal ball tells us exactly what will happen in the future AFTER a conference needs a team his crystal ball is unable to tell us what and when the predicating event will occure.

[MplsBison]

Of course all options will be considered.


Simply, of the options available (few and far between), UND/USD is the best.



They could also choose to just remain at 7.

But they weren't in a hurry to do that last go 'round.

[douglasdmb]

I don't think the Valley will be adding any basketball teams. They have ten which means they all still play a home-and-home with each other. They like it that way. I also don't foresee anyone leaving.

Are you sure they do? According to MplsBison's theories, the MVC won't like it that way.

[MplsBison]

I have not said a single thing about the MVC basketball conference adding members.

[BisonBacker]

He hasn't been working at the Argus that long. And on top of that, he's the SDSU beat writer. He doesn't have anything to do with USD.

I doubt he's going to remember every line from every story the Argus sport section has done in the last year. And I also doubt he's going to take time out of his busy day to look up stories for you when you could do it yourself if you weren't so lazy.

Do you realize just how ridiculous you look writing this stuff? Now your trying to discredit a well respected Sports Columnist? He won't have a clue whats going on even though it's his job to cover DI sports for the Main paper in Sioux Falls? xnonox xnonox
You really should quit posting you already have dug yourself a hole you can't get out of. Your a liar plain and simple.

[MplsBison]

Now your trying to discredit a well respected Sports Columnist?

Since when is it discrediting if you don't remember every single line from every single story in the last year that you didn't write?


He won't have a clue whats going on even though it's his job to cover DI sports for the Main paper in Sioux Falls?

As I said, he's the SDSU beat writer. He doesn't cover USD.


Your a liar plain and simple.

There you go again with your.

[bisonguy]

I just emailed Terry V. who covers sports for the Argus Leader asking him about this story. I will let you know when I get a response (which I already know what it will be) but then again it will be proof that MPLSBison lied about this alleged package deal.

You should email Mick Garry. He's the Coyote beat writer, and has been at the Argus for much longer than nine months.

[BisonBacker]

You should email Mick Garry. He's the Coyote beat writer, and has been at the Argus for much longer than nine months.


Even though I know it's a lie by MPLBison aka MPLSioux I'm just doing this to prove a point. That he outright lied about this. I can guarantee you that Terry will know and will confirm that no such arrangement was made. Hell I even went over to the Sioux board and nobody over there has heard about it either. Go figure since it's a lie that MPLSBison/Sioux made up. Come on Bisonguy if this was actually true it would have been all over the UND board. The USD board doesn't surprise me since it's not very active at all. Anyway I'm done posting on this thread until I hear back from Terry V. as it's gotten off topic due to one poster and his lies. The MVC won't be looking anytime soon period.

[MplsBison]

Yeah. Mick will know.


Ask him about what Abbott said re: how USD is similar to UND.

[MplsBison]

The MVC won't be looking anytime soon period.

What about the Gateway?

This is a football message board, isn't it?

[skinny_uncle]

What about the Gateway?

This is a football message board, isn't it?
The Gateway will be up to nine members next year. Unless there are defections, I doubt they add any more any time soon.

[JBB]

Agreed!! The Gateway has been pretty clear about 9 members being ideal. It was just a stroke of luck The Mighty Land Grants were there, with the money, when the Gateway needed 2 teams.

[Coyote Fan]

I think it's fair to say that USD and UND will work together if at all possible to get into a conference together and I hope they both end up going in the same direction. If USD and UND was offered into the summit and/or Gateway alone I think each of them would accept eventhough they would support each other strongly. I have heard Joel Nielson say that he does work very closely with UND or at least will in the future. I think whether it's the Big Sky, Summitt League or Gateway the package together would be an attractive duo to any of those leagues. Both schools have great tradition and stability. USD would be the attractive school for mens basketball which is the most identifiable with the Summit League. UND is a bit ahead in football but USD is nipping very tightly at their tails.

Bringing in two schools that are the Universities of their respective states sounds good and people respond to that.

[MplsBison]

The Gateway won't add anyone until Youngstown leaves or InSU drops.


1 000 000 001.

[BisonBacker]

I think it's fair to say that USD and UND will work together if at all possible to get into a conference together and I hope they both end up going in the same direction. If USD and UND was offered into the summit and/or Gateway alone I think each of them would accept eventhough they would support each other strongly. I have heard Joel Nielson say that he does work very closely with UND or at least will in the future. I think whether it's the Big Sky, Summitt League or Gateway the package together would be an attractive duo to any of those leagues. Both schools have great tradition and stability. USD would be the attractive school for mens basketball which is the most identifiable with the Summit League. UND is a bit ahead in football but USD is nipping very tightly at their tails.

Bringing in two schools that are the Universities of their respective states sounds good and people respond to that.

Yes your right they will work together. Nobody ever disputed that. But when people make statements that are an outright lie and then are asked to back it up with proof and cannot which has been proven here it gets to be ridiculous. MPLSBison makes outrageous statements he knows to be lies to try to back up his theory's and when called on it posts more crap. Actually I enjoyed today's comments. He's proved to the rest of AGS that his comments cannot be trusted. I hope for USD's sake they can work with UND and find a conference home. But if I see someone post something I know is not true I will call them on it.

[TheBisonator]

SDSU is a basketball school first and foremost and every sport after that is an after thought.

Yet the Gateway took them.



2006-07 Average attendance for SDSU sports:

Football - 9,652
Men's Basketball - 1,880

Yep, that SDSU sure is a basketball-first school, ain't it??

[MplsBison]

2006-07 Average attendance for SDSU sports:

Football - 9,652
Men's Basketball - 1,880

Yep, that SDSU sure is a basketball-first school, ain't it??

It is considered a basketball first school.

[JBB]

SDSU attendance, like NDSU attendance is down. The NCC is a top D2 conference in attendance and when the Mighty Land Grants left we didnt really have anything to replace those great rivalries with. Now of course, thats all changing.

Although attendance looks like an average D2 now, heres the goal for both programs:

*The average crowd for a game involving a Division I team was 5,548, up 122 people a game from the prior year. For all NCAA teams combined, the average crowd was 2,449, up 98 fans a game from 2006.

http://www.huliq.com/22917/ncaa-basketball-attendance-enjoys-records-for-both-genders

Here is another list:

Reclassifying Teams to Division I:


Team G Attendance Avg.

UC Davis 13 18,618 1,432
Kennesaw St. 12 10,722 893
Longwood 12 11,924 993
NJIT 11 1,323 120
North Dakota St. 13 32,348 2,488
North Fla. 13 13,595 1,045
Northern Colo. 12 11,427 952
South Dakota St. 12 24,842 2,070

As you can see reclassifying is a trying time for attendance but SDSU is doing well.

Here are all the attendance stats you may need:

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/2006_basketball_attend.pdf

[BisonBacker]

It is considered a basketball first school.

Only in your fantasy world. Find the link yet? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Hammersmith]

Sorry for the tangent, but JBB's link had an interesting DII stat. The NCC, which will fold after this year when UND & USD move up, has won the DII MBB attendance crown for 27 straight years. In fact, with one exception, the NCC has won both MBB & WBB attendance titles every year since 1991. Talk about going out on top.

While I'm delurking...
Comparing current xDSU attendance numbers to pre-DI numbers isn't kosher. Both schools lost the ~10 yearly doubleheaders that membership in the NCC provided. Attendance should benefit this year from the six or so dh's that the SL will provide.

Now(hopefully), back to the original topic of a Gateway name change.

[MplsBison]

Now(hopefully), back to the original topic of a Gateway name change.

Even if they change the Gateway to the MV, as uncle said I don't think the MV wants more bball members.

So I don't think it will make a difference for Youngstown, WIU, NDSU, or SDSU.



Arguably, the Horizon was as strong as the MV was last season (both had 2 bids to the tournament).


And once the Dakota 4 are established in the Summit Leauge, with ORU, Oakland, etc., I think the SL could be a top mid major.

[JBB]

Oh yea. The reason I posted attendance figures in the first place was to highlite the MVC:

8. Missouri Valley 10 156 *1,203,771 *7,716 516

Thats eighth best in the country! i think their average attendance is greater than the NDSU capacity.

[roadwarrior]

I need a drink after reading the posts on this threadxrolleyesx

[douglasdmb]

Arguably, the Horizon was as strong as the MV was last season (both had 2 bids to the tournament).

I know that I put you on my ignore list, but I just can't help but read your stuff. It's like watching a car accident. :)

The MVC was 10-2 last year against the Horizon. Bradley, who finished 4th in the Valley last year, beat Wright State, who shared the conference title with Butler, 88-49. Just because both conferences had the same number of tourney bids doesn't mean that they were equals as leagues. The Horizon would've been a single-bid conference if Wright St. hadn't won the conference tournament and many experts argued that the Valley should've had more bids. The MVC was one of the deepest leagues from top to bottom in the country.

[BearsCountry]

I know that I put you on my ignore list, but I just can't help but read your stuff. It's like watching a car accident. :)

The MVC was 10-2 last year against the Horizon. Bradley, who finished 4th in the Valley last year, beat Wright State, who shared the conference title with Butler, 88-49. Just because both conferences had the same number of tourney bids doesn't mean that they were equals as leagues. The Horizon would've been a single-bid conference if Wright St. hadn't won the conference tournament and many experts argued that the Valley should've had more bids. The MVC was one of the deepest leagues from top to bottom in the country.

xthumbsupx

[BisonBacker]

This is too funny, now MPLSioux is over on the UND board trying to sell this crap to them. Even they aren't buying it. Still looking for your link MPLSioux.xlolx

[BisonBacker]

Well surprise surprise, no such agreement exists. I just recieved an email from Terry and he confirmed what I already knew. Will they work together if they can? Of course they will. But there is no such agreement where they are a package deal so MPLSBison aka MPLSioux do you want to admit you fabricated/lied about this? Or is it that everyone else is wrong and you are the only one who's right? You can't even convince the folks at the UND board about your theory. What a joke.xnodx

[TxnYote]

I know that I put you on my ignore list, but I just can't help but read your stuff. It's like watching a car accident. :)

The MVC was 10-2 last year against the Horizon. Bradley, who finished 4th in the Valley last year, beat Wright State, who shared the conference title with Butler, 88-49. Just because both conferences had the same number of tourney bids doesn't mean that they were equals as leagues. The Horizon would've been a single-bid conference if Wright St. hadn't won the conference tournament and many experts argued that the Valley should've had more bids. The MVC was one of the deepest leagues from top to bottom in the country.

Lol. Maybe that's why he used the qualifier "arguably"? I mean, technically you could argue it...you'd be fighting a losing battle, but you could still argue it. :D


Sorry for the tangent, but JBB's link had an interesting DII stat. The NCC, which will fold after this year when UND & USD move up, has won the DII MBB attendance crown for 27 straight years. In fact, with one exception, the NCC has won both MBB & WBB attendance titles every year since 1991. Talk about going out on top.

While I'm delurking...
Comparing current xDSU attendance numbers to pre-DI numbers isn't kosher. Both schools lost the ~10 yearly doubleheaders that membership in the NCC provided. Attendance should benefit this year from the six or so dh's that the SL will provide.



For some reason, I want to say that Northern State led DII in MBB attendance either last season or the season before. I'll try to find a link.

2007 NCAA DII Mens BB Attendance Leaders (http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/2007_basketball_attend.pdf)

2007 Top 5
1. Central Mo. State
2. Winona State
3. Virginia State
4. Northern State (SD)
5. SOUTH DAKOTA

14. North Dakota

2006 NCAA DII Mens BB Attendance Leaders (http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/2006_basketball_attend.pdf)

2006 Top 5
1. Northern State (SD)
2. Winston-Salem
3. Morehouse
4. Washburn
5. Virginia State

7. Augustana (SD) NCC
8. St. Cloud State NCC
11. North Dakota NCC
18. SOUTH DAKOTA
21. Minnesota State NCC

USD had one more home game in '07 than in '06 but saw an increase of 13,000 fans total over the whole season. UND had 5 less home games in '07 than in '06 and saw 12,000 fewer fans overall.

TxnYote

[MplsBison]

MPLSBison do you want to admit you fabricated/lied about this?


I've lied about nothing.

[BisonBacker]

Link Pleasexcoffeex

[BisonBacker]

I've lied about nothing.

The truth and the Facts are obviously things you are not familiar with.

[douglasdmb]

Mpls, are you in politics?

[andy7171]

Mpls, are you in politics?
I think he'd be a good boxing trainer.

Stick and move. Stick and move. Stick and move. Stick and move.

[Go Bison]

I think he'd be a good boxing trainer.

Stick and move. Stick and move. Stick and move. Stick and move.


That's funny!xlolx

[andy7171]

That's funny!xlolx

I'll be here all week.

[douglasdmb]

Lol. Maybe that's why he used the qualifier "arguably"? I mean, technically you could argue it...you'd be fighting a losing battle, but you could still argue it. :D

You're right. Like you said though, most arguments for the Horizon being as good as the MVC last year are pretty weak.

[BearsCountry]

You're right. Like you said though, most arguments for the Horizon being as good as the MVC last year are pretty weak.

#1 Horizon team vs. #10 MVC team, enough said.
http://www.indstate.edu/athletic/mensbb/0607/releases/12-9-06.htm