2021 Patriot League Thread

[DFW HOYA]

Posting a thread to discuss the latest in the Patriot League, "where inertia is our middle name".

What we know in January:

1. There may be football this spring, there may not be.
2. There may be as many as seven teams, but probably not.
3. There is no timetable for a decision or even when to allow practice.
4. There is no 2021 fall schedule posted.
5. The last league press release on the matter was July 13, 2020: "The League is committed to exploring creative approaches and alternatives to providing future competitive experiences to our fall sport student-athletes, including the possibility of conducting fall sport competition and championships in the second semester."

And so we begin.

[Sader87]

We coulda been in the Big East too...just sayin'

[NY Crusader 2010]

I've come to the conclusion after 15 years as an HC sports fan that the following are both true:

a) Not joining the Big East was the right decision for our small, liberal arts institution
b) Joining the Colonial League in football and ultimately the Patriot League in all sports (namely basketball) was a also poor decision.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I still trust certain schools within the PL framework to come out of this "mess" in pretty good shape relative to a lot of other FCS schools. Several of the 2nd and 3rd tier state schools are going to have their already sketchy financial situations compromised even further. Lehigh will be opening their medical school this fall which is really the first major academic addition since the business and art school 30 years ago. That's when Lehigh was in the midst of an identity crisis; Engineers to the Brown and White and then finally the Mountain Hawks. I'm not sure if this will pave the way for a university sponsored hospital? Temple has a strong affiliation with St. Luke's. From the periphery Lehigh as a whole seems to be on an upward trajectory relative to some of its "peers" both in the PL and outside of it.

Last we saw Chesney was running laps around the league imo. Hunt has some additional time to get Colgate righted. Gilmore has the tools but not sure about his ability to adapt to not only the current climate but this era of player. His first year was pretty much a disaster. Cecchini should have Bucknell competitive but their ultimate ceiling seems low to me. I have no idea how much emphasis Bucknell will put on football. Lafayette currently seems like a rudderless ship. Fordham has a tough deal being in the Bronx. Being an urban school Temple has fought an uphill covid battle with football and now basketball this season.

Fordham men's basketball desperately needs a complete overhaul or a change in scenery. I think most would agree a new conference is needed but because the Rams are solid in other sports their administration seems to content to let the men's bball team wallow in ineptitude. Fordham men's basketball and Georgetown football are neck and neck when it comes who's failures are more egregious.

Holy Cross can pine for the Big East but at this point I wish Lehigh and Colgate made more of an attempt to join the CAA when the A10 football dissolved. Both programs were very strong at the time and I have to think there would have been interest if either one stuck their neck out. I understand Lehigh not wanting to leave Lafayette in behind but at this point I don't think following the school on College Hill is a wise move. Lafayette seems to have serious leadership/identity issues.

If JMU finally jumps to FBS, err G5 FBS, I could see some upheaval in the CAA. Delaware and Villanova will at least get a sense of the room if/when the Dukes take their talents to the land of no more titles.

As for spring football; scrap it and prepare for the fall....

[Baron Sardonicus]

Posting a thread to discuss the latest in the Patriot League, "where inertia is our middle name".

What we know in January:

1. There may be football this spring, there may not be.
2. There may be as many as seven teams, but probably not.
3. There is no timetable for a decision or even when to allow practice.
4. There is no 2021 fall schedule posted.
5. The last league press release on the matter was July 13, 2020: "The League is committed to exploring creative approaches and alternatives to providing future competitive experiences to our fall sport student-athletes, including the possibility of conducting fall sport competition and championships in the second semester."

And so we begin.

I think you could rework this post, and create a great limerick. Just saying.

[DFW HOYA]

I think you could rework this post, and create a great limerick. Just saying.

"There once was a league in the East
Whose focus on spring football had decreased
Six said go, one said no,
Now they don't know what to say."

[Baron Sardonicus]

This is a Michael Braude Award contender, folks.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Fordham men's basketball desperately needs a complete overhaul or a change in scenery. I think most would agree a new conference is needed but because the Rams are solid in other sports their administration seems to content to let the men's bball team wallow in ineptitude. Fordham men's basketball and Georgetown football are neck and neck when it comes who's failures are more egregious.

Holy Cross can pine for the Big East but at this point I wish Lehigh and Colgate made more of an attempt to join the CAA when the A10 football dissolved.



Fordham isn't leaving the Atlantic 10 IMO, even if that's the wrong decision (It is, unless they can upgrade facilities or hire the right coach, both of which they have wiffed at for 25 years). Most followers and alum pretty much concur that their administration would butcher their ability to succeed in the sport no matter what level they moved down to, whether it be CAA, MAAC, Patriot or the D-III CUNYAC. As far as Fordham succeeding in "other sports" as an A-10 member, remember that the A-10 is a hoops-first league. With the exception of baseball because of the southern schools, the Patriot League and CAA might actually be better than the A-10 in a lot of minor sports.

A-10 football never dissolved. It just got re-badged as CAA Football in 2006. Just like the A-10 office took over stewardship of the Yankee Football Conference ten years prior.

[Bill]

I still trust certain schools within the PL framework to come out of this "mess" in pretty good shape relative to a lot of other FCS schools. Several of the 2nd and 3rd tier state schools are going to have their already sketchy financial situations compromised even further. Lehigh will be opening their medical school this fall which is really the first major academic addition since the business and art school 30 years ago. That's when Lehigh was in the midst of an identity crisis; Engineers to the Brown and White and then finally the Mountain Hawks. I'm not sure if this will pave the way for a university sponsored hospital? Temple has a strong affiliation with St. Luke's. From the periphery Lehigh as a whole seems to be on an upward trajectory relative to some of its "peers" both in the PL and outside of it.
.
Go Lehigh,

Just to be clear, Lehigh is NOT opening a medical school...it's opening a college of health (https://health.lehigh.edu/) No one will be getting an MD - just training scientists and health tech field. When I was last there at reunion in 2019, President Simon wanted to make that point very clear!
I do agree though...bigger things ahead for LU.

[bonarae]

Do you guys think we leave Northeast FCS CFB to be played this spring to the NEC and the CAA?

Go figure, PL / Ivy will have a long layoff ahead. xsighx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Go Lehigh,

Just to be clear, Lehigh is NOT opening a medical school...it's opening a college of health (https://health.lehigh.edu/) No one will be getting an MD - just training scientists and health tech field. When I was last there at reunion in 2019, President Simon wanted to make that point very clear!
I do agree though...bigger things ahead for LU.

Good call! As it is, still an excellent addition for the school. Lehigh is a couple steps away from being a smaller version of Duke. I'd like to see Lehigh's postgrad enrollment in the 3,000 range.

This is probably the longest I've gone without stepping foot on Lehigh's campus in my 38 years. Stinks...

[ngineer]

I still trust certain schools within the PL framework to come out of this "mess" in pretty good shape relative to a lot of other FCS schools. Several of the 2nd and 3rd tier state schools are going to have their already sketchy financial situations compromised even further. Lehigh will be opening their medical school this fall which is really the first major academic addition since the business and art school 30 years ago. That's when Lehigh was in the midst of an identity crisis; Engineers to the Brown and White and then finally the Mountain Hawks. I'm not sure if this will pave the way for a university sponsored hospital? Temple has a strong affiliation with St. Luke's. From the periphery Lehigh as a whole seems to be on an upward trajectory relative to some of its "peers" both in the PL and outside of it.

Last we saw Chesney was running laps around the league imo. Hunt has some additional time to get Colgate righted. Gilmore has the tools but not sure about his ability to adapt to not only the current climate but this era of player. His first year was pretty much a disaster. Cecchini should have Bucknell competitive but their ultimate ceiling seems low to me. I have no idea how much emphasis Bucknell will put on football. Lafayette currently seems like a rudderless ship. Fordham has a tough deal being in the Bronx. Being an urban school Temple has fought an uphill covid battle with football and now basketball this season.

Fordham men's basketball desperately needs a complete overhaul or a change in scenery. I think most would agree a new conference is needed but because the Rams are solid in other sports their administration seems to content to let the men's bball team wallow in ineptitude. Fordham men's basketball and Georgetown football are neck and neck when it comes who's failures are more egregious.

Holy Cross can pine for the Big East but at this point I wish Lehigh and Colgate made more of an attempt to join the CAA when the A10 football dissolved. Both programs were very strong at the time and I have to think there would have been interest if either one stuck their neck out. I understand Lehigh not wanting to leave Lafayette in behind but at this point I don't think following the school on College Hill is a wise move. Lafayette seems to have serious leadership/identity issues.

If JMU finally jumps to FBS, err G5 FBS, I could see some upheaval in the CAA. Delaware and Villanova will at least get a sense of the room if/when the Dukes take their talents to the land of no more titles.

As for spring football; scrap it and prepare for the fall....

Not to be "picky', but for clarification, Lehigh is not beginning a "Medical School". It is the College of Health Sciences. While involved with the medical field, it appears to be focused on a combination of health policy, the use of technology within the health/medical area, epidemiology, etc., but we will not be training medical doctors (M.D.'s). There is a good opportunity for some cross connections with Temple and St. Lukes. Years ago, Lehigh had a deal with one of the medical schools in Philly (Hahneman, possible) for a 6 year combined BS/MD degree, but Hahneman when up th flue.

- - - Updated - - -


I still trust certain schools within the PL framework to come out of this "mess" in pretty good shape relative to a lot of other FCS schools. Several of the 2nd and 3rd tier state schools are going to have their already sketchy financial situations compromised even further. Lehigh will be opening their medical school this fall which is really the first major academic addition since the business and art school 30 years ago. That's when Lehigh was in the midst of an identity crisis; Engineers to the Brown and White and then finally the Mountain Hawks. I'm not sure if this will pave the way for a university sponsored hospital? Temple has a strong affiliation with St. Luke's. From the periphery Lehigh as a whole seems to be on an upward trajectory relative to some of its "peers" both in the PL and outside of it.

Last we saw Chesney was running laps around the league imo. Hunt has some additional time to get Colgate righted. Gilmore has the tools but not sure about his ability to adapt to not only the current climate but this era of player. His first year was pretty much a disaster. Cecchini should have Bucknell competitive but their ultimate ceiling seems low to me. I have no idea how much emphasis Bucknell will put on football. Lafayette currently seems like a rudderless ship. Fordham has a tough deal being in the Bronx. Being an urban school Temple has fought an uphill covid battle with football and now basketball this season.

Fordham men's basketball desperately needs a complete overhaul or a change in scenery. I think most would agree a new conference is needed but because the Rams are solid in other sports their administration seems to content to let the men's bball team wallow in ineptitude. Fordham men's basketball and Georgetown football are neck and neck when it comes who's failures are more egregious.

Holy Cross can pine for the Big East but at this point I wish Lehigh and Colgate made more of an attempt to join the CAA when the A10 football dissolved. Both programs were very strong at the time and I have to think there would have been interest if either one stuck their neck out. I understand Lehigh not wanting to leave Lafayette in behind but at this point I don't think following the school on College Hill is a wise move. Lafayette seems to have serious leadership/identity issues.

If JMU finally jumps to FBS, err G5 FBS, I could see some upheaval in the CAA. Delaware and Villanova will at least get a sense of the room if/when the Dukes take their talents to the land of no more titles.

As for spring football; scrap it and prepare for the fall....

Not to be "picky', but for clarification, Lehigh is not beginning a "Medical School". It is the College of Health Sciences. While involved with the medical field, it appears to be focused on a combination of health policy, the use of technology within the health/medical area, epidemiology, etc., but we will not be training medical doctors (M.D.'s). There is a good opportunity for some cross connections with Temple and St. Lukes. Years ago, Lehigh had a deal with one of the medical schools in Philly (Hahneman, possible) for a 6 year combined BS/MD degree, but Hahneman when up th flue.

[ngineer]

Good call! As it is, still an excellent addition for the school. Lehigh is a couple steps away from being a smaller version of Duke. I'd like to see Lehigh's postgrad enrollment in the 3,000 range.

This is probably the longest I've gone without stepping foot on Lehigh's campus in my 38 years. Stinks...

Sorry I failed to scroll down the thread and see this addressed. Yes, Lehigh is trying to enter the upper echelon of academia. I remember past president Peter Likins envisioning trying to create a "small Stanford" of the East. But we haven't beaten Stanford, yet, in basketball!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Fordham isn't leaving the Atlantic 10 IMO, even if that's the wrong decision (It is, unless they can upgrade facilities or hire the right coach, both of which they have wiffed at for 25 years). Most followers and alum pretty much concur that their administration would butcher their ability to succeed in the sport no matter what level they moved down to, whether it be CAA, MAAC, Patriot or the D-III CUNYAC. As far as Fordham succeeding in "other sports" as an A-10 member, remember that the A-10 is a hoops-first league. With the exception of baseball because of the southern schools, the Patriot League and CAA might actually be better than the A-10 in a lot of minor sports.

A-10 football never dissolved. It just got re-badged as CAA Football in 2006. Just like the A-10 office took over stewardship of the Yankee Football Conference ten years prior.

As long as Father McShane and his ideology are there I agree when it comes to athletics. If nothing else, the A10 allows Fordham to maintain close association with St. Louis, Dayton and elite academic schools like Davidson and George Washington. I love Fordham as a school but their handling of college athletics, especially men's basketball, is egregious. Similar to Georgetown.

How can you have that many smart, driven people in one place yet not get football even remotely close to right? Granted, I fully understand part of the Hoya's problems date back to the "Dayton Rule" and being forced into Division 1 football. Compounding the problem, they joined a football conference full of members who were also forced to be there. It was not a healthy foundation from the start. Fordham played catch-up for a decade following a similar path; D3 to the PL. Georgetown has had twice as long, 20 years, and still aren't close to making waves nationally. Or winning the PL for that matter.

As for the A10; Wiki says
UR accepted the invitation, taking the A-10 football conference below the NCAA minimum of six. Shortly after this, the A-10 football conference opted to disband, with all of its members becoming charter members of the CAA football conference.


The CAA Football Conference does not claim the legacy of the A10 Football Conference or the Yankee Conference.

I take that as it was a wholesale change/new league? The A10 completely ceased operation and the CAA was founded with a clean slate?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Sorry I failed to scroll down the thread and see this addressed. Yes, Lehigh is trying to enter the upper echelon of academia. I remember past president Peter Likins envisioning trying to create a "small Stanford" of the East. But we haven't beaten Stanford, yet, in basketball!


Lehigh's rankings (for whatever their worth) have stagnated the last decade or so despite an increase in selectivity. Stanford-lite is an unrealistic target at this point. Even to get in the Vanderbilt, Rice, Georgetown and even Duke and Northwestern range will need a serious increase in resources and academic breadth.

How these schools handle this whole "situation" is fascinating. Who will come out of it stronger, weaker or will nothing change?

[NY Crusader 2010]

As for the A10; Wiki says



I take that as it was a wholesale change/new league? The A10 completely ceased operation and the CAA was founded with a clean slate?

Not sure from a league operations perspective but as far as membership, there was no change at the time of the switchover. The 12 teams in the A-10 became the 12 teams in the CAA in 2006 or 2007, whatever the exact year was. Makes sense that Richmond leaving meant that there weren't enough schools required to support the banner for football and thus it switched over. What's interesting is that Richmond left in 2001 and it took 6 years for the league to change banners.

It WAS Richmond leaving that did shake up CAA membership. Prior to the Spiders' departure to the A-10 in 2001, the CAA was actually on the verge of adding Furman, The Citadel, Davidson and I believe College of Charleston. When Richmond left, the whole "new league" that was about to form was blown up. The CAA then pivoted and raided America East, bringing in Delaware, Towson, Hofstra and Northeastern (NE was already there for football and joined for all sports). This was probably the time frame you were thinking of regarding Lehigh and Colgate having the opportunity to join.

[DFW HOYA]

No surprise here.

https://guhoyas.com/news/2021/1/8/georgetown-football-statement-on-spring-2021-season.aspx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No surprise here.

https://guhoyas.com/news/2021/1/8/georgetown-football-statement-on-spring-2021-season.aspx

I personally think this is the right thing to do.

How about spring practice?

[NY Crusader 2010]

No surprise here.

https://guhoyas.com/news/2021/1/8/georgetown-football-statement-on-spring-2021-season.aspx

I'm sure the GU administration is being consistent though and also cancelling the remainder of the Men's Basketball season, right?

[TheValleyRaider]

Figure we also ought to include the actual PL announcement as well: https://patriotleague.org/news/2021/1/7/general-patriot-league-announces-fall-and-spring-sports-scheduling-formats-for-2021.aspx


The Patriot League's half dozen football teams will be split into two three-team divisions for the 2021 spring season. Colgate, Fordham and Holy Cross will play in the North Division. Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh will play in the South Division. Teams will play each divisional opponent once with two non-divisional games. The League schedule is set to begin on Saturday, March 13, and conclude on Saturday, April 17, with a championship game between the two division winners. There is a make-up weekend scheduled for the weekend of April 10. The Georgetown football program will forgo participation in the spring 2021 season. If conditions allow and within permissible local and federal guidelines, the Hoyas will work to bring football student-athletes back for training in the spring in preparation for the traditional fall 2021 football season.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm sure the GU administration is being consistent though and also cancelling the remainder of the Men's Basketball season, right?

I could honestly see that happen. They're 3-7, lots of unsettled people in DC plus it's an urban school. I think you'll see quite a few teams shutdown as the season becomes more of a lost cause. I personally would have no issue if Temple pulled the plug. It's January 8th, we've played 3 games and have had three covid shutdowns. Today was the Owls first day of practice after a 10 day layoff. Acting AD Dunphy wanted no part of the football season.

I just don't see what the PL is trying to accomplish. By the time the season starts/finishes August is not THAT far away. I think it would be wise to stay healthy (sickness and football related injuries) and try and kick butt in the fall. I'd be in favor of allowing the schools two competitive scrimmages as part of spring practice.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown's situation is wholly independent of sports. There were approx. 200 students (out of roughly 6,800) allowed on campus in the fall, mostly students who were finishing research projects or those on a visa who couldn't get back into their own country. The spring adds up to 500 seniors, but even that's just 10 percent of the undergraduate population. All classes are remote and no faculty are present on campus. The campus is even closed to visitors.

On Georgetown's 93 man roster in 2020, 20 are seniors. There were 20 players signed in the December recruiting period. Unless there's a stray fifth year medical redshirt out there, consider the Class of 2021 as having completed their football eligibility, although a number are investigating grad transfers.

As for basketball, there are contractual obligations with the Big East which require all 10 schools to participate in basketball, and to a lesser extent, soccer, track and lacrosse. These are the only sports being fielded, so 20 other Georgetown teams are in dry dock as well. As for men's basketball, there are a grand total of 10 players (younger than seniors) added to campus this spring, playing in a controlled indoor environment. That's a marked difference between 10 kids and vs. bringing in 70+ underclassmen to play an contact support that is currently not allowed in DC restrictions. That having been said, expect no spring practice.

[Fordham]

Good to see some activity again after checking in. Hope you guys and your families are safe and healthy!


Fordham men's basketball desperately needs a complete overhaul or a change in scenery. I think most would agree a new conference is needed but because the Rams are solid in other sports their administration seems to content to let the men's bball team wallow in ineptitude. Fordham men's basketball and Georgetown football are neck and neck when it comes who's failures are more egregious.
Fordham's basketball failures dwarf Georgetown's football ones. This is supposed to be our marquee sport so it's tremendously worse imo.

I'm not sure what the long term effects of this past year will have on the entire department and our conference affiliations will be but in the short term we have an (interim) AD who is FINALLY reporting to the President. The expectation is that he (or his successor) will be able to make a run at finding a successful A10 coach again. I have to say that he's very impressive imo. Ed Kull - he's going about the job in a way that I've never seen anywhere close at Fordham in terms of fund raising, building our social media presence, involvement from alums across all sports, etc. Granted, the bar was about as low as it possibly could have been but still good to see.


As for spring football; scrap it and prepare for the fall....

I wish. I think that would have been the right call too. In the meantime, Coach Conlin has continued to recruit really, really well for us. Just landed a kid who decommitted from Utah State this weekend. How are you guys doing? I haven't kept up with all of your teams, particularly as it relates to recruiting.

Again, hope you guys are well!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I could honestly see that happen. They're 3-7, lots of unsettled people in DC plus it's an urban school. I think you'll see quite a few teams shutdown as the season becomes more of a lost cause. I personally would have no issue if Temple pulled the plug. It's January 8th, we've played 3 games and have had three covid shutdowns. Today was the Owls first day of practice after a 10 day layoff. Acting AD Dunphy wanted no part of the football season.

I just don't see what the PL is trying to accomplish. By the time the season starts/finishes August is not THAT far away. I think it would be wise to stay healthy (sickness and football related injuries) and try and kick butt in the fall. I'd be in favor of allowing the schools two competitive scrimmages as part of spring practice.

Glad to see the Montana schools do this (not surprised based on what I heard). I highly HIGHLY doubt the PL schools will be participating in spring football as the release suggests....


Both Montana schools now look to develop a slate that allows each team to schedule up to two live competitions, falling in line more closely with the traditional spring practice period. Opponents and exact dates are still to be determined.

Montana State University President Dr. Waded Cruzado and University of Montana President Seth Bodnar made the joint decision with the health and safety of student-athletes as their primary concern for not participating in a full spring season

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky-conference/montana-state-university/montana-montana-state-opt-out-of-big-sky-spring-football-season-due-to-covid-19/article_085e41cd-779e-50bb-8411-6d0afe345bc6.html

[NY Crusader 2010]

IMO, as fans, it's easy for us to say "hey, let's just wait for fall and rest up for a real season. Especially one where actually attending games should be a reality". However, let's also remember most of our member schools are comprised of liberal arts students. For just about every senior in the league, it might be your last chance to represent your school on the field. For their sake, I hope that even an abridged season with a couple intense rivalry games is able to take place.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

IMO, as fans, it's easy for us to say "hey, let's just wait for fall and rest up for a real season. Especially one where actually attending games should be a reality". However, let's also remember most of our member schools are comprised of liberal arts students. For just about every senior in the league, it might be your last chance to represent your school on the field. For their sake, I hope that even an abridged season with a couple intense rivalry games is able to take place.

I agree with the "once in a lifetime aspect" completely. However, the reality is the vast majority of NCAA/NAIA did not play, or will not be playing anytime soon. Outside of of a handful of FCS schools, the reason there was any college football was $$$ and contracts.

Fordham and Georgetown (I know they're out but they still have a say) are located in major urban areas while Lehigh, Lafayette and Holy Cross are in fairly large metro areas; that's an issue right there. The Covid climate in these areas is simply not good right now. That combined with general student populations/rosters that are about as geographic diverse as it gets and you have more ammo to tread lightly. Generally speaking, the PL and IL will going to error on the side of caution (might be the understatement of 2021 so far) which leads me to believe there won't be a meaningful spring season.