Montana moving fast to shore up CB spots

[Ronbo]

One of our Griz fans ran into some players and Coaches with recruits on the town last night.


At my local watering hole last night, those that know me know where that is. Anyway Coach BH and another coach came to dinner with Eric Allen and Kyle Ryan, and two cornerback recruits. 1 from NMSU and another from a JC in southern Cali. Both very nice young men. We spoke with them for a little while, EA and KR were very optomistic about the upcoming year. I can't stress enough about what nice young men these 4 were. I was with a former griz Olineman. we told the recruits they would need more fingers for all the rings they would get if they were to come here, I think these kids really enjoyed their visit to Missoula, and I'd bet they will sign

[MplsBison]

Hmm...seems to me that if you had one finger since 2001, you'd be ok.


Unless you give rings for Big Sky titles.

[Ronbo]

They give rings for BSC titles. The Great West and Gateway don't?

[ncbears]

were the two that got into trouble on scholarship? I assume the schollis have been freed up?

[already123]

who are these guys......any good???

[Grizzle G]

One is Mike Vandenberg from University of Mexico, Not sure who the other was.http://golobos.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/vandenberg_mike00.html

[Ronbo]

University of Mexico? LOL Is he eligible for transfer or will he need a green card?

Seriously, Mike Vandenberg, University of New Mexico, 6'1" 170 lbs, Soph in 2007.

This kid led the state of California in interceptions! Look at his HS numbers, he is a serious athlete. He'll make us forget all about Jimmy Wilson. New Mexico fans say this kid can fly.

HIGH SCHOOL:
A 2005 graduate of Campolindo HS in Moraga, Calif...receiver and cornerback who put up big numbers on both sides of the ball...led the state with 11 interceptions, plus 85 tackles and 2 fumble recoveries, 1 for a TD...also 35 catches for 726 yards and 9 TDs as a receiver and a 35.8-yard average on kickoff returns with 1 TD...overall, 1,492 all-purpose yards and 13 TDs...second team all-state on defense by CalHiSports.com and first team all-conference by virtually every media outlet and organization in Northern California...had 19 career interceptions for head coach Kevin Macy...helped lead Campolindo to the conference title (9-0) and an overall record of 10-2...also a team captain.

[Ronbo]

were the two that got into trouble on scholarship? I assume the schollis have been freed up?

Two full rides have been freed up as both Wilson and Freeman were dimissed from the program.

[Grizalltheway]

University of Mexico? LOL Is he eligible for transfer or will he need a green card?

Seriously, Mike Vandenberg, University of New Mexico, 6'1" 170 lbs, Soph in 2007.

This kid led the state of California in interceptions! Look at his HS numbers, he is a serious athlete. He'll make us forget all about Jimmy Wilson. New Mexico fans say this kid can fly.

HIGH SCHOOL:
A 2005 graduate of Campolindo HS in Moraga, Calif...receiver and cornerback who put up big numbers on both sides of the ball...led the state with 11 interceptions, plus 85 tackles and 2 fumble recoveries, 1 for a TD...also 35 catches for 726 yards and 9 TDs as a receiver and a 35.8-yard average on kickoff returns with 1 TD...overall, 1,492 all-purpose yards and 13 TDs...second team all-state on defense by CalHiSports.com and first team all-conference by virtually every media outlet and organization in Northern California...had 19 career interceptions for head coach Kevin Macy...helped lead Campolindo to the conference title (9-0) and an overall record of 10-2...also a team captain.


Here's hoping he does! xprost2x

[Ronbo]

Some comments on Vandenberg from New Mexico fans.

"Great kid - great athlete"

"He'll be a great asset to Montana."

"Mike is a GREAT player...You're getting a sure starter!"

[Tribe4SF]

One of our Griz fans ran into some players and Coaches with recruits on the town last night.

"I was with a former griz Olineman. we told the recruits they would need more fingers for all the rings they would get if they were to come here,.."

Not sure if your Griz fan is aware of it, but this treads perilously close to a recruiting violation if he is classified as a booster. Your compliance officer would have a spasm if he knew boosters were talking to recruits encouraging them to come to Montana.

[MaroonMafia]

The o-lineman is now a high-school teacher. Don't think I'd consider him a booster by any means!!!

[ncbears]

The o-lineman is now a high-school teacher. Don't think I'd consider him a booster by any means!!!


A teacher can't be a booster? Damn...I guess I'm not a booster at UNC then? xconfusedx xconfusedx

[MaroonMafia]

I was a little intoxicated when I made that post. What I should have said, is that I don't think he did anything wrong by making that statement. He didn't pay for the meal or offer anything of value. Of course a teacher can be a booster. xdohx No more drunk posting for me!!!

[bisonguy]

"I was with a former griz Olineman. we told the recruits they would need more fingers for all the rings they would get if they were to come here,.."

Not sure if your Griz fan is aware of it, but this treads perilously close to a recruiting violation if he is classified as a booster. Your compliance officer would have a spasm if he knew boosters were talking to recruits encouraging them to come to Montana.

Looking at the brochure NDSU boosters receive, this could be a recruiting violation -NDSU Compliance Brochure (http://www.gobison.com/pdf5/17493.pdf?ATCLID=119126&SPID=714&DB_OEM_ID=2400&SPSID=12293)

As a booster, you are specifically prohibited from:
Making any recruiting contacts with prospects or their
relatives. This includes telephone calls, letters, e-mails,
and facsimiles, along with any face-to-face contact
either on-or off -campus.


Q. Can a representative of athletics interest (booster)
be involved when a prospect is on an official or
unoffcial visit?
A. NO. Boosters are precluded from all recruiting
activities, including face-to-face contacts with a
prospect or his/her relatives at any time.
Q. Can boosters contact prospects to encourage them
to attend NDSU?
A. NO. Any such contact could result in the prospect
being declared ineligible to participate in athletics at
NDSU.


If I was a Griz fan, especially the one that may have made this comment, I would immediately be contacting the compliance officer. Better safe than sorry.

[MplsBison]

Maybe someone should forward this thread to the NCAA?

[Tribe4SF]

Maybe this thread will serve to raise awareness of how stringent NCAA rules are regarding "booster" contact with recruits. Many people who send a check every year, or belong to an organization such as W&M's QB Club, are totally unaware of the restrictions on them. Some schools do a good job of educating boosters (sounds like NDSU is in that group), and some do very little. W&M's Compliance Officer is on the agenda of the QB Club meeting every Monday night.

[Ronbo]

Looking at the brochure NDSU boosters receive, this could be a recruiting violation -NDSU Compliance Brochure (http://www.gobison.com/pdf5/17493.pdf?ATCLID=119126&SPID=714&DB_OEM_ID=2400&SPSID=12293)





If I was a Griz fan, especially the one that may have made this comment, I would immediately be contacting the compliance officer. Better safe than sorry.

Go ahead and inform the NCAA. These guys were on an official recruiting trip to the city and campus. Anybody in town could talk to them. Bet they talked to hundreds of people over the weekend.

[bisonguy]

Go ahead and inform the NCAA.
Dude, seriously, where did I say to contact the NCAA???

I simply stated that if I was a Griz fan that I would contact Montana's Compliance Officer to report this. xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x



These guys were on an official recruiting trip to the city and campus. Anybody in town could talk to them. Bet they talked to hundreds of people over the weekend.

So, you're saying that there may have been hundreds of recruiting violations over the weekend? xoopsx

[Montanan]

They both sound like good gets, hope thay decide on Montana.

So many experts, so little expertise!

[already123]

CHEATIN!!!

[Tribe4SF]

Go ahead and inform the NCAA. These guys were on an official recruiting trip to the city and campus. Anybody in town could talk to them. Bet they talked to hundreds of people over the weekend.

If you think it's ok for boosters to talk to recruits, you're wrong. On campus...off campus...on a visit...not on a visit...it is prohibited. Does it happen in casual encounters? Yes. Can it be a problem for any of us? Most definitely.

If you give money in any amount to the program, or belong to any organization that supports or promotes the program in any way, you are a booster. Joe Blow on the street can talk all he wants. Boosters can not.

Had a conversation with some Richmond folks about one of their verbal commits being on their messageboard last Winter. They were on thin ice communicating with him, and they brought it to a halt once they realized it was prohibited.

It's each school's responsibility to educate boosters, and it's each booster's responsibility to protect their school. Wishing something were ok doesn't make it so.

[GrizzlyEdd]

Let the school, athletic department, booster/boosters who have not sinned cast the first stone.... end of discussion for we have all sinned one time or another....xnonox

[Grizzle G]

Neither me nor the former O-lineman are boosters. Just fans.

[YoUDeeMan]

If you think it's ok for boosters to talk to recruits, you're wrong. On campus...off campus...on a visit...not on a visit...it is prohibited. Does it happen in casual encounters? Yes. Can it be a problem for any of us? Most definitely.

If you give money in any amount to the program, or belong to any organization that supports or promotes the program in any way, you are a booster. Joe Blow on the street can talk all he wants. Boosters can not.

Had a conversation with some Richmond folks about one of their verbal commits being on their messageboard last Winter. They were on thin ice communicating with him, and they brought it to a halt once they realized it was prohibited.

It's each school's responsibility to educate boosters, and it's each booster's responsibility to protect their school. Wishing something were ok doesn't make it so.

From what our compliance officer told us at a recent meeting, what those former players did would be prohibited. xnodx xreadx

[WyomingGrizFan]

I sure would wish that the NCAA would not be an entity unto itself above that that is Constitutionally mandated, including the 'Bill of Rights.' They certainly can't cite 'ignorance of the law' (NCAA reguirements on recruitment), unless of course, they 'are' above the 'Law of the Land' to begin with, being that no law is retroactive, supposedly.

[MplsBison]

The NCAA is above the bill of rights.


They're a private club. If you don't like their rules you're free to leave.

[FCS Go!]

Mayhaps the "no contact" rules only apply to high school recruits. These guys are already in college and probably are covered by a different set of rules.

[Montanan]

From what our compliance officer told us at a recent meeting, what those former players did would be prohibited. xnodx xreadx

If you wouldn't mind, would you elaborate? Thanks.

[already123]

yes....please elaborate

[Tribe4SF]

I have always assumed as a former player that I am a "representative of athletics interest". You don't have to give money to be covered by NCAA restrictions.

When the current regulations were drafted, they were designed to protect recruits from being, or feeling, pressured by boosters. Having experienced such pressure, I can say that it is not fun. The only way to do it was to make all contact prohibited.

As for the comment above about casting the first stone, my interest here is not to cast stones. Whether others have sinned or not will make no difference if the NCAA is looking at my school. More importantly, there are good reasons for the restrictions, and I want to see everything possible done to make the recruiting process less offensive. Coaches can be bad enough in how they deal with recruits. Other "representatives of athletics interest" can be down right disgusting.

There are some different rules regarding recruiting transfers, but the rules for "representatives of athletics interest" are the same. Once your school begins recruiting a player, it's hands off....period.

[GrizRchattybound]

UFI's

[Grizalltheway]

I have always assumed as a former player that I am a "representative of athletics interest". You don't have to give money to be covered by NCAA restrictions.

When the current regulations were drafted, they were designed to protect recruits from being, or feeling, pressured by boosters. Having experienced such pressure, I can say that it is not fun. The only way to do it was to make all contact prohibited.

As for the comment above about casting the first stone, my interest here is not to cast stones. Whether others have sinned or not will make no difference if the NCAA is looking at my school. More importantly, there are good reasons for the restrictions, and I want to see everything possible done to make the recruiting process less offensive. Coaches can be bad enough in how they deal with recruits. Other "representatives of athletics interest" can be down right disgusting.

There are some different rules regarding recruiting transfers, but the rules for "representatives of athletics interest" are the same. Once your school begins recruiting a player, it's hands off....period.

Unless he's a booster, technically he did nothing wrong...period.

[Tribe4SF]

Unless he's a booster, technically he did nothing wrong...period.

Former players are all subject to the restrictions.

What he did is no big deal to me, but posting it on a messageboard is not a good idea. Posting that that kind of interaction is common at your school is also not a good idea.

I assume most of the Griz posters here are boosters. If you want clarification on what's ok and what's not, contact your compliance officer. They will tell you not to talk to recruits, and they will tell you that it is important to follow these rules.

[GoGriz1]

It's my understanding that according the NCAA guidelines, "incidental contact not pre-arranged by the athletic department" does not constitute a violation.

[Tribe4SF]

It's my understanding that according the NCAA guidelines, "incidental contact not pre-arranged by the athletic department" does not constitute a violation.

Incidental contact is indeed fine, so long as you don't talk about your school's athletics. Being arranged by the athletic department has nothing to do with it. If a recruit asks you about your school's athletics, you tell him he'll need to ask the coaching staff, or his host players. If you initiate a discussion, or make comments about your school's athletics, that's a violation no matter the circumstances.

[GoGriz1]

It's a fine line. The rules say a booster cannot have contact with a recruit in an attempt to recruit them to attend a particular college or university. With the coaching staff present, I have little doubt that what was said was within the rule's framework.

[AZGrizFan]

It's a fine line. The rules say a booster cannot have contact with a recruit in an attempt to recruit them to attend a particular college or university. With the coaching staff present, I have little doubt that what was said was within the rule's framework.


xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx ....and I had no doubt the coaching staff did a background check on Freeman before they let him transfer from UA..... xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

[mtgrizfan4life]

This was supposedly a simple post, and has turned into a possible NCAA violations thread. Simply Amazing!
Out of curiousity and from any fans point of view, how can fans be held accountable for simple friendly interactions, not incudling bribes? Are we as fans expected to know NCAA recruiting bylaws? My point is, if any of this turns out to be a violation, then the NCAA is beyond ridiculous! Makes one wonder if any of us here have commited a violation.

Seriously, a fan or fans coincidentally run into a potential recruit and know it is a recruit, are we to just ignore the recruit/recruits? Is a fan, booster, etc (not part of the staff) commiting a violation by introducing themselves, wishing the athlete luck, welcoming the athlete to the community, and finally says something like "FWIW, I hope to see you be part of GRIZNATION (insert school here), and look forward to watching you play here." I honestly cannot see that being any sort of violation, and if it is, once again, that is going beyond the ridiculous!!!

[MplsBison]

If they initiate contact with you, you don't have to ignore them.


But you are not supposed to initiate contact with them, as the OP clearly did.

[mtgrizfan4life]

Just sounds beyond lame to me. It sure puts the coaches and recruits in an awkward and impersonal situation. It takes out the "personable" side of recruiting. If indeed it is this extreme, then I guess it is best for everyone that every fan come off as being rude and not caring, and to just zip the lip.

Sorry but this just all seems too extreme to me. I can see not allowing recruits to accept free meals, drinks, gifts, money etc, but cannot see nor understand a personable welcome or good luck gesture.

[MplsBison]

It's not like the NCAA started out with these rules.


Some school at some time had to have abused the previous system in order to have gotten to where we are now.

[mtgrizfan4life]

It's not like the NCAA started out with these rules.


Some school at some time had to have abused the previous system in order to have gotten to where we are now.

I am not disagreeing with you, and understand the reasoning for rules. Yet, I think this is going too extreme on everyone involved. How can any organization set rules regarding people not even part of the organization (in this case the fans)? How can they expect any group of fans to know about these rules? Are the coaches supposed to walk into a place and say "these are recruits, please do not interact with them whatsoever!"

Sorry, but the way this thread is coming off, it sounds like it. The fact that this even being debated, alone makes the NCAA seem too extreme and overstepping a few too many boundaries.

[813Jag]

I am not disagreeing with you, and understand the reasoning for rules. Yet, I think this is going too extreme on everyone involved. How can any organization set rules regarding people not even part of the organization (in this case the fans)? How can they expect any group of fans to know about these rules? Are the coaches supposed to walk into a place and say "these are recruits, please do not interact with them whatsoever!"

Sorry, but the way this thread is coming off, it sounds like it. The fact that this even being debated, alone makes the NCAA seem too extreme and overstepping a few too many boundaries.
It may be extreme but like the saying goes "the good have to suffer with the bad" I know of plenty of places where a recuit can be around fans and it won't just be friendly interaction. Certain schools made the bed buy since we're all NCAA we have to lay in it as well.

[Tribe4SF]

This was supposedly a simple post, and has turned into a possible NCAA violations thread. Simply Amazing!
Out of curiousity and from any fans point of view, how can fans be held accountable for simple friendly interactions, not incudling bribes? Are we as fans expected to know NCAA recruiting bylaws? My point is, if any of this turns out to be a violation, then the NCAA is beyond ridiculous! Makes one wonder if any of us here have commited a violation.

Seriously, a fan or fans coincidentally run into a potential recruit and know it is a recruit, are we to just ignore the recruit/recruits? Is a fan, booster, etc (not part of the staff) commiting a violation by introducing themselves, wishing the athlete luck, welcoming the athlete to the community, and finally says something like "FWIW, I hope to see you be part of GRIZNATION (insert school here), and look forward to watching you play here." I honestly cannot see that being any sort of violation, and if it is, once again, that is going beyond the ridiculous!!!

The bolded section would almost certainly be a violation.

Being personable on an incidental meeting without crossing the line is really not that hard. If it gets awkward you can always say..."I can't really address that because I'm a booster". Recruits are aware for the most part that schools have many restrictions. Most casual meetings between recruits and boosters happen because the booster wants to interact, or meet the recruit, and feels compelled to say something like the above. Believe me, that kind of thing is superfluous to the recruit, and can be overbearing. The sales job comes from the coaches and active player hosts.

[putter]

personally I think the NCAA stinks as an organization and it has more holes in it than swiss cheese. So what everyone is saying is that these recruits walked into a restaurant said hello to a couple of people who knew the coach and they told the recruits that they hoped they liked Missoula and the U and that is breaking the NCAA regs? IF that is true than almost every recruit in the nation will be guilty and every school has had violations....

The problem now is that people just should not post on a stupid message board...

[MplsBison]

Actually...yes.


This thread would've been fine if he hadn't mentioned his violation.

[mtgrizfan4life]

That is the point, how in the hell does a loyal, faithful, friendly fan of any team know they are part of a violation? Your average fan does not know NCAA regulations. Many fans are lucky to know the teams, and players let alone lame NCAA rules. Damn it keep it to not offering players, recruits money, gifts, etc.

[bisonguy]

I have always assumed as a former player that I am a "representative of athletics interest". You don't have to give money to be covered by NCAA restrictions.

When the current regulations were drafted, they were designed to protect recruits from being, or feeling, pressured by boosters. Having experienced such pressure, I can say that it is not fun. The only way to do it was to make all contact prohibited.

As for the comment above about casting the first stone, my interest here is not to cast stones. Whether others have sinned or not will make no difference if the NCAA is looking at my school. More importantly, there are good reasons for the restrictions, and I want to see everything possible done to make the recruiting process less offensive. Coaches can be bad enough in how they deal with recruits. Other "representatives of athletics interest" can be down right disgusting.

There are some different rules regarding recruiting transfers, but the rules for "representatives of athletics interest" are the same. Once your school begins recruiting a player, it's hands off....period.

That statement is true, at least on Montana's website concerning compliance: (http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/content/compliance/whois_representative.htm)

Who is a Representative of Athletics Interests?
Anyone who has, at any time, done one or more of the following:
Participated in or been a member of a sports booster club such as the Grizzly Scholarship Association, Quarterback Club, Roundball Club or Hoop Club.

Made a financial donation to any of The University of Montana's men's or women's athletic programs or the Grizzly Scholarship Association.

Assisted or have been requested (by athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospects.

Assisted in providing any benefit (e.g. summer employment) to enrolled student-athletes or their families.

Been involved in any way with the University's athletic program.


Please note three important points regarding this definition:

(1) It is very easy to meet one of these criterion, thus each institution has thousands of athletics representatives.

(2) Once an individual becomes a representative of the institutions athletics interest, he or she retains that identity indefinitely.

(3) Under NCAA rules, the institution is responsible for all actions of its athletic representatives.


Griz Compliance Link (http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/content/compliance/compliance_information.htm)

[mtgrizfan4life]

Note to all college football fans, both FCS and BCS, just ignore any potential recruits and be a standoffish a-hole. Also be forgiving to any coaches coming off assholes when showing recruits the town. I guess the NCAA feels it be better if everyone be a-holes when it comes to recruiting. Seriously, this is LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[catbob]

Wow, talk about a bunch of girls getting their collective panties in a twist.

Seriously, whoever first mentioned this is a violation, do you work for the IRS?

Sorry Griz fans, just ignore their empty threats and meaningless drivel.

[WyomingGrizFan]

The NCAA is above the bill of rights.


They're a private club. If you don't like their rules you're free to leave.


If the NCAA is such an 'exclusive' private club, party, etc. that is above the 'Bill of Rights,' a part of the Constitution, then they shouldn't be protected by the U. S. Military branches that have sworn to protect the Constitution against both foreign and domestic enemies.

[GrizRchattybound]

I'll say it again....U.F.I.'s...need to get a life!

Go Tell the NCAA, they will laugh their ass off at you as well.

lol!!

and then tell you to get some sun.

[already123]

This just in....NCAA has set regulations on what the coaches may or may not wear during recruiting weekends

[Tribe4SF]

Wow, talk about a bunch of girls getting their collective panties in a twist.

Seriously, whoever first mentioned this is a violation, do you work for the IRS?

Sorry Griz fans, just ignore their empty threats and meaningless drivel.

I was first, and if you haven't been able to figure out where I'm coming from then you're probably not capable of understanding why knowing this stuff is important. As with others who don't want to accept the way things are, talk to the MSU compliance officer and see how your own school feels about it. Nobody's making threats, and if you think it's drivel, then just ignore it.

As to the post saying to go ahead and tell the NCAA and watch them laugh, you should know that the NCAA has no sense of humor.xrulesx

[813Jag]

I'll say it again....U.F.I.'s...need to get a life!

Go Tell the NCAA, they will laugh their ass off at you as well.

lol!!

and then tell you to get some sun.
If anybody on this board reported this to the NCAA that would be some kindergarden level pettyness. I think all Tribe4SF is saying is that you have to be careful and that goes for all of us. xreadx
At Southern we use to recognize the recruits at the game but the NCAA doesn't want you to do that so they stopped.