Griz expansion projected to be sold out before completed

[Ronbo]

Do you think it was short sighted that they didn't go with 4000 new seats?


Maes figures the price for stadium club seating to be around $1,500, which is up from the $1,250 reported in January. At that time, UM athletic director Jim O'Day said once the expansion paid itself off, it would be worth $1.5 million to $1.6 million annually to the athletic department.

Input from fans has been very encouraging, Maes said, adding that it was reminiscent of the last expansion in 2003. That year, 4,004 seats were added above the north end zone, at a cost of $2.5 million. That brought the capacity to 23,183.

“We have a significant waiting list already for non-priority seating,” said Maes. “And a fairly good list for priority seating, and interest in the club is high. It should be exactly like our last expansion, in the north end zone; we should have it sold before we have it open.”

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/06/27/news/local/news04.txt

http://www.go-synthetic.com/wa-griz-expansion.gif

[Dane96]

I said this was short-sighted (and asthetically a bit unsightly) from the get.

Typical construction though (believe me...I worked on the most controversial project in US construction history): by the time the project is completed...the goals are made obsolete by changing times...causing new, and spiked, costs to correct.

[Ronbo]

Exactly what is unsightly about this other than it doesn't extend further from the Noth End Zone to the South? The next expansion on this east side will connect this deck to the North End Zone seating and to the South, probably to the back of the end zone. As it sits right now the deck goes from the 10 yard line to the 10 yard line.

[Dane96]

Exactly what is unsightly about this other than it doesn't extend further from the Noth End Zone to the South? The next expansion on this east side will connect this deck to the North End Zone seating and to the South, probably to the back of the end zone. As it sits right now the deck goes from the 10 yard line to the 10 yard line.

You stated it exactly...it doesn't extend and looks rather wierd next to the other unreal and large expansions. For the extra 2mm they should (and may very well do so if it is sold out prior to construction) extend it all the way. It is very similar to Boston College's expansion if they continue across

Believe me, I would simply like to have a stadium at Albany, so it is not a knock. That being said, construction costs sky rocket with "turns" and "corners", along with connecting sections. They should just complete the side and be done with it...since it is already planned for.

2mm extra now...is worth 6 million in two-three years.

And as I said before...I would gather those extra 2k in seats will be sold as well.

[Ronbo]

You stated it exactly...it doesn't extend and looks rather wierd next to the other unreal and large expansions. For the extra 2mm they should (and may very well do so if it is sold out prior to construction) extend it all the way. It is very similar to Boston College's expansion if they continue across

Believe me, I would simply like to have a stadium at Albany, so it is not a knock. That being said, construction costs sky rocket with "turns" and "corners", along with connecting sections. They should just complete the side and be done with it...since it is already planned for.

2mm extra now...is worth 6 million in two-three years.

And as I said before...I would gather those extra 2k in seats will be sold as well.

That's 300% inflation. Does that make sense?

[SU Jag]

Nice!xthumbsupx

[813Jag]

Y'all don't mess around in Montana. One of the days I gotta get out there. xthumbsupx

[SU Jag]

Do you think it was short sighted that they didn't go with 4000 new seats?



http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/06/27/news/local/news04.txt

http://www.go-synthetic.com/wa-griz-expansion.gif


That just gave me an idea for Munford!

[Dane96]

That's 300% inflation. Does that make sense?

With construction...you never know. Too many variables: labor, steel, equipment, concrete, etc....can lead to MASSIVE INCREASES.

Not to mention that numbers are often inflated by companies in contract mods and RFP's.

The insane disparity of construction costs has given rise to consultants whose sole job is to "scrub" the numbers post-construction modification. PMA is an example of one company.

Bottom line: If Montana knows they are going to add those 2k down the line...you are better off doing it now. It is one thing to wait adding the whole other side. It is quite the other to save 2mm now when the costs will surely rise in the future for seats you are already planning on putting in. That extra 2mm is money well spent now.

Believe me.

[putter]

I too thought that the 2000 seats was shortsighted and they just should have built the 4000 seats that were initially called for. So what if they are not sold out every game but with a limited amount of student seating I would bet money that every seat would have been filled.

Quote: Dane96

Bottom line: If Montana knows they are going to add those 2k down the line...you are better off doing it now. It is one thing to wait adding the whole other side. It is quite the other to save 2mm now when the costs will surely rise in the future for seats you are already planning on putting in. That extra 2mm is money well spent now.

Agree completely...

[jessesd]

With construction...you never know. Too many variables: labor, steel, equipment, concrete, etc....can lead to MASSIVE INCREASES.

Not to mention that numbers are often inflated by companies in contract mods and RFP's.

The insane disparity of construction costs has given rise to consultants whose sole job is to "scrub" the numbers post-construction modification. PMA is an example of one company.

Bottom line: If Montana knows they are going to add those 2k down the line...you are better off doing it now. It is one thing to wait adding the whole other side. It is quite the other to save 2mm now when the costs will surely rise in the future for seats you are already planning on putting in. That extra 2mm is money well spent now.

Believe me.


Dane, you have one right point and another way off-base on your argument.

you can't compare construction costs in the State of New York to those of the Midwest. The graft and "union fees"(***bribes, gifts, payouts and phantom employees) and are not a big issue in the Northern states. Labor is fairly honest* xpeacex even in larger projects, (the benefits of a right to work state instead of a union shop).
In addition, because of the shorter construction seasons, the cost and expenses are usually contracted at a set price with bonuses when completed in time or penalties if they are late.
The construction permits and speed of the projects are not as delayed as here in New York (like DestiNY). Where you have to bribe your way out everything if you don't know the right person. As a result construction cost and labor are cheaper to what you are used to.
these are some of the many other reasons the constructon projects of this type in the midwest are usually completed ahead of time with smaller cost over-runs, I have plenty of research data of Soccer, football and baseball stadium projects that I'm working for a paper that reflects those issues, I'll be mora than happy to direct you to some sites to get the data if you have access to stadistical analysis software.

On the other hand you hit it on the nail when you talk about being cheaper to plan and build in one shot a large expansion that in little pieces, because it looks nicer and may have smother lines instead of a collection of odd structures that would result of smaller addition over time. I do agree that the joint of existing projects can add up on the long run. It would not be over 200% on a three year run.
The kicker here is that they are selling everything ahead of time, Maybe a larger 15k to 20k was more appropriate for the Grizz (future planning) than this little 1500 seats. the demand does exist and there is enough support!!!

[Dane96]

I do not need papers Jesse...I work(ed) with construction companies, architects, suppliers, bond companies, insurance providers (post and pre-turnover) and construction consultants THROUGHOUT THE WORLD! IT IS MY JOB. I practiced every day on THE LARGEST PROJECT IN THE WORLD before it was surpassed by the Yanghtzee (sp?) River project. The budgets I dealt with were staggering (think signing off on contract modifications in the hundreds of millions of dollars in a single day).

SECONDARY CONSTRUCTION COSTS MORE IN THE END...NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IN THE WORLD.

This isn't Montana saying "well, we may or may not build a second side." They, from what I understand, are going to add those 2000 seats no matter what down the line. If that is the case...it is a fact that it is cheaper to build now.

Think of it this way. Once they build the side, and then add seats to that side, they will have to work A) with the current structure, including dismantling part of said structure temporarily to allow for the additions; and B) costs for construction do not decrease in future years...they increase, irregardless of regional savings (e.g. midwest cheaper then northeast).

Finally, it is not always true that costs are cheaper for construction in non-coastal areas. In fact, due to a variety of circumstances, costs COULD ACTUALLY RISE!

[Dane96]

BTW...you should stop watching Back to School. Your "union" issues are not reality. Yes, UNIONS play a major role in cost increases, but they do not play a role in cost of supply of materials. They do not play a role in ripping existing structures apart to allow for wiring, drainage, plumbling, lighting, etc...for the increased seating. And believe me, I unforunately, have had contact with the "unsavory" types involved in construction.

While 6mm was an EXAMPLE (sheesh), if it cost 2mm now...it could very well cost 3-6mm in the future depending on a variety of issues. YOU NEVER CAN TELL...and that is the point.

And for the record...I am not a construction attorney in NEW YORK...though I am licensed there.