Teams who are getting too much credit or not enough??

[justsaying]

I want to try something different...
with preseason rankings and polls being released as well as talk about different teams on the discussion boards.. which teams do you feel are getting to much credit and/or not enough? This is a chance for those who are looking at these preseason predictions and views in disbelief to air out their opinions and make thier arguement on one thread..

Lets see how this goesxeyebrowx

[JMU2004]

Right now, I think JMU is getting too much credit. We lost a lot of talent to graduation, and have some holes to fill. We have been recruiting extremely well, but you never know until they actually hit the field!

Hope I am wrong! xoopsx

[Mr. C]

Some teams I think are flying under the radar a bit:

Tennessee-Martin. People still can't believe the Skyhawks can be good and that 2006 wasn't a fluke. They should be getting props for RB Donald Chapman, if nothing else.

Sam Houston State. This team can make some big noise, if it can establish someone to replace D.D. Terry. The Bearkats have a very solid defense and Rhett Bomar is going to light things up with a good group of receivers.

The Citadel. The Bulldogs have one of the best coaches around in Kevin Higgins and a lot of players back. Duran Lawson is one of the more underappreciated QBs in FCS and the Bulldogs also have a good defense. They could make a playoff run in 2007.

Towson. The Tigers just missed the playoffs last season and have much of that team coming back, including one of the best QBs in FCS, Sean Schaefer. If this team stays healthy, they could be good again this season.

[UncleSam]

I agree with a couple of CAA teams already mentioned


too much

JMU - no playoffs in '05 and one and done in '06



too little

Towson - made improvements each year since joining the league, the playoffs could be in TU's future this year.

[bluehenbillk]

Uncle Sam, it's not cause your a great American, but I agree with you.

[FL connection]

We'll have an answer to Tenn-Martin after their trip to Charleston.....

[Col Hogan]

Too much - UMass (hurts to say that, too xbawlingx ) We lose some major pieces...some people say we have the replacements...but they haven't proven it on the field yet...

Too Little: Got to agree with Sam, Mr. C and bluehenbillk that Towson isn't getting the credit it deserves...I'll go as far to say they take the CAA South!!!!!

[mcveyrl]

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with the JMU analysis above. They were much lower in my pre-season Top 25 than where they ended up and will have to prove some things to me...

I also agree with Towson being overlooked. I think they'll be really good this year.

[andy7171]

Towson needs to win a game before they get respect. JMU, Maine and UMass were disasters. Until they win a big game, I have no problem with them being over looked.

[GannonFan]

Towson needs to win a game before they get respect. JMU, Maine and UMass were disasters. Until they win a big game, I have no problem with them being over looked.


I think everyone agrees that they eventually need to win one of these big games to get over the hump. The past two years they've shown a lot of promise but haven't finished the job. Most everybody felt that Towson would arrive eventually, maybe this is the year? Five tough road games (UMass, W&M, Colgate, Maine, and JMU) will certainly factor in.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Towson needs to win a game before they get respect. JMU, Maine and UMass were disasters. Until they win a big game, I have no problem with them being over looked.

Being over-looked is probably a good thing for a team as I'm sure it is a source of motivation. That being said, I would probably make Towson the pre-season favorite in the CAA South this year. xthumbsupx

[Bison06]

I hate to say this because I love NDSU, but I think we may be a bit overrated. We are new to the scene and had an amazing year last year, I completely expect us to continue this success, I just don't know if all of the praise we get is justified yet. We'll see.

[UncleSam]

Towson needs to win a game before they get respect. JMU, Maine and UMass were disasters. Until they win a big game, I have no problem with them being over looked.


Weren't the UMass and Maine loses both without your QB Schaefer?

[andy7171]

Weren't the UMass and Maine loses both without your QB Schaefer?
Just UMass. He came back the next week and beat Nova.
Maine was just a disaster in a downpour.

The real tragedy was losing to William and Mary. Had they beat them they would have been 8-2 going into the game against JMU. xnonono2x

[hawkeye]

We'll have an answer to Tenn-Martin after their trip to Charleston.....

I cant say were looking forward to that trip.

[89Hen]

Uncle Sam, it's not cause your a great American, but I agree with you.
Ditto

[PapaBear]

Maine was just a disaster in a downpour.

Disaster for Towson, yes. Downpour? Hardly. We tailgated in your lot out front of Unitas Stadium before and after the game. There were a few brief, light showers during the game. But for the most part, the weather held off just fine.

Maine-URI last year ... now THAT was a downpour.

With all of that said, I agree with the posts suggesting that TU could sneak up on some folk this year. Was very impressed with Schaefer. In fairness to him, his O-Line kinda phoned it in and he spent a good deal of the game running for his life. Shore up your front five and this year's game in Orono could be a lot of fun to watch.

[89Hen]

TU could sneak up on some folk this year
I don't think they're going to 'sneak up' on anyone. If they win it's going to be because they are good, but everyone will be very aware of them. xthumbsupx

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Underrated:

SHSU - seems the only real contender vs. McNeese this year. I'm sure SLC insiders may have different POVs.

Maine - they are perennially underrated. A lot of good teams lose in Orono. The black bear will probably not make the playoffs, but they'll make some noise.

Citadel - They'll also be a tougher team than many expect, and they always play 4 tough quarters of football. Again, not likely to make the playoffs, but they may strongly influence the selection committee as to who sits at home on Thanksgiving weekend.

Delaware - Watch out. They will be a force once again, and I expect them to beat JMU giving them the CAA South this year. It really pains me to say that... xbawlingx But they'll lose to Towson again, so maybe not... xsmiley_wix

Overrated:

Towson - yep, I said overrated. I find myself rooting year-in, year-out rooting for the Tigers, but don't believe the hype, and here's why:
1. Away schedule - UMass, W&M, Colgate, Maine, and JMU - OUCH!
2. No fan support. What the hell is going on Saturdays in the fall in Baltimore that you can't generate thousands of fans for an exciting team? Are they going to Delaware or something? xeyebrowx
3. One man show - QB is awesome. Great arm, mobile, sometimes forces some things though... But no supporting cast. To win the CAA South, the line of that team must dominate. Won't happen again this year.
4. Did I mention the away schedule? Brutal! xrulesx xnodx

UNH - Again, great QB and skill positions, the rest of the team? I dunno. Show me the linemen!!!!! (I hope they let JMU run through them like a wet paper bag again this year! :p )

Tenn-Martin - Yes, they're a good team. But they're more like the Hampton of the OVC. Easy competition, no preparation for the playoffs. One and done. Now go prove me wrong and pull a Boise State on the FCS. And yes, I mentioned Boise St., please don't ban me from the AGS for life for mentioning a team that made a successful transition to I-A (used that term just to annoy those people that were mad in the first place! xlolx )

Wish I had more insights into the rest of the FCS, but most seem placed appropriately for now. Here's to hoping for some crazy upsets and newcomers to the top 25! xthumbsupx

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

To all the JMU naysayers, I see JMU as an easy pick as underrated, but I think they're about right. Landers will be fine at QB. His running ability alone makes him a threat, and he'll need it.

Our D looks like it will be solid again. I don't expect run-D to be as good as last year, but still strong. However, our pass D should be much stronger. Senior Tony LeZotte anchors the secondary with a lot of depth and experience after a tough gritty year lsat year that saw several injuries. Those injuries last year gave playing time to younger players and now we have several DBs with experience under their belt.

RB Holloman put on some weight, which was much needed as he was 170 lbs last year and still put on a show. Without the back up help of Banks and Fenner, he'll need the added weight for endurance. Looks like we have some good talent rising as usual in the backfield as well behind Holloman.

Bottom line, JMU will be fine. Should go 8-3 or 9-2 given the schedule. Toughest opponents - @ UNC, @ UD, home vs. UNH.

A few key losses, but not enough to kill the program's momentum. New players have been waiting in the wings! xthumbsupx

[MR. CHICKEN]

AH KNOW IT'S DUH MEAC......HOWEVERAH.....DELAWARE STATE.....IS BEIN' DISSED........DEY JES MISSED LAST SEASON....&....DEY HAVE QUIETLY PICKED UP SOME I-A (FBS)...TALENT.....AN' IFIN' DUH HENS ARE FO' REAL.....WELL DAT IN STATE RIVALRY......COULD HAPPEN IN ROUND ONE.....LATE NOVEMBERAH.....xrotatehx....BRAWK!

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

Over-rated: Tenn-Martin. They benefited from the hold-over influence (& players) of Matt Griffin (who left for Murray St). Let's see what happens this fall,...

Under-rated: Delaware. If they are healthy and can play the way they did vs UNH last fall, LOOK OUT!

TWO Years away: The afore-mentioned Matt Griffin and Murray State. Not much to show yet, but they are getting the goods slowly, but surely. MSU will hit oppontents so hard that ole Griffin mentor, Bill Bowes, will surely be very proud. xthumbsupx

[katstrapper]

Some teams I think are flying under the radar a bit:

Tennessee-Martin. People still can't believe the Skyhawks can be good and that 2006 wasn't a fluke. They should be getting props for RB Donald Chapman, if nothing else.

Sam Houston State. This team can make some big noise, if it can establish someone to replace D.D. Terry. The Bearkats have a very solid defense and Rhett Bomar is going to light things up with a good group of receivers.

The Citadel. The Bulldogs have one of the best coaches around in Kevin Higgins and a lot of players back. Duran Lawson is one of the more underappreciated QBs in FCS and the Bulldogs also have a good defense. They could make a playoff run in 2007.

Towson. The Tigers just missed the playoffs last season and have much of that team coming back, including one of the best QBs in FCS, Sean Schaefer. If this team stays healthy, they could be good again this season.

I do agree with the point we are flying under the radar a bit, but I am still a bit skeptical. I have been following Bearkat football for many years to know not to put the cart before the horse.

However I will say this...

Bomar is going to bring a dimension to the offense we havent had since Josh McCown was QB and that is speed and mobility at QB position. You cant deny the fact that losing DD Terry at RB will be tough, BUT if Chris Poullard had not gotten hurt last year before the season started, DDT would have been still playing defense. That being said, the combination of Chris Poullard and TyMagic Robinson will be VERY good. Robinson gets the corner on a defense and they will be hard pressed to catch him. This kid ran a 10.3/10.4 100 meters as a junior in high school.xthumbsupx The strength of the offense will be the O-Line. SHSU will return 4 of 5 starters up front that gave up 10 sacks all last year.

[Casey_Orourke]

I hate to say this because I am an alum of the college, but Portland State may be overrated this year. PSU made great strides under Tim Walsh, but never was able to get over that last hump.

Even with innovative coaches like JG and Mouse Davis cannot be expected to lead the team the next level, especially with a new offensive and defensive scheme and the players recruited were better suited for the previous system.

I hope I am wrong and will gladly eat crow if PSU manages to meet expectations and they do move into the Big Sky elite and reach the level of success they did as a D-II team.

[Mr. C]

Underrated:

SHSU - seems the only real contender vs. McNeese this year. I'm sure SLC insiders may have different POVs.

Maine - they are perennially underrated. A lot of good teams lose in Orono. The black bear will probably not make the playoffs, but they'll make some noise.

Citadel - They'll also be a tougher team than many expect, and they always play 4 tough quarters of football. Again, not likely to make the playoffs, but they may strongly influence the selection committee as to who sits at home on Thanksgiving weekend.

Delaware - Watch out. They will be a force once again, and I expect them to beat JMU giving them the CAA South this year. It really pains me to say that... xbawlingx But they'll lose to Towson again, so maybe not... xsmiley_wix

Overrated:

Towson - yep, I said overrated. I find myself rooting year-in, year-out rooting for the Tigers, but don't believe the hype, and here's why:
1. Away schedule - UMass, W&M, Colgate, Maine, and JMU - OUCH!
2. No fan support. What the hell is going on Saturdays in the fall in Baltimore that you can't generate thousands of fans for an exciting team? Are they going to Delaware or something? xeyebrowx
3. One man show - QB is awesome. Great arm, mobile, sometimes forces some things though... But no supporting cast. To win the CAA South, the line of that team must dominate. Won't happen again this year.
4. Did I mention the away schedule? Brutal! xrulesx xnodx

UNH - Again, great QB and skill positions, the rest of the team? I dunno. Show me the linemen!!!!! (I hope they let JMU run through them like a wet paper bag again this year! :p )

Tenn-Martin - Yes, they're a good team. But they're more like the Hampton of the OVC. Easy competition, no preparation for the playoffs. One and done. Now go prove me wrong and pull a Boise State on the FCS. And yes, I mentioned Boise St., please don't ban me from the AGS for life for mentioning a team that made a successful transition to I-A (used that term just to annoy those people that were mad in the first place! xlolx )

Wish I had more insights into the rest of the FCS, but most seem placed appropriately for now. Here's to hoping for some crazy upsets and newcomers to the top 25! xthumbsupx
I can't believe how clueless people are on this board about UT-Martin. I guess you didn't realize that the Skyhawks were seconds away from beating Southern Illinois (a two-time quarterfinalist) in the playoffs last fall when a long TD pass beat them. Donald Chapman is as good as ANY RB in FCS and UT-Martin has many other parts back from last year. The Skyhawks have been improving every year and there is no reason to think they won't again this year.

Towson, similarly, is a team that has improved every year in recent years. The Tigers have a lot of offensive talent, not just Schaefer. If Towson's line was so bad, why did the Tigers get one of their players drafted into the NFL? It is true that Towson needs to prove itself in big games, but the Tigers weren't far from the playoffs last year (a season-ending loss to JMU) and could be in contention again this year.

[The Sheriff]

I hate to say this because I love NDSU, but I think we may be a bit overrated. We are new to the scene and had an amazing year last year, I completely expect us to continue this success, I just don't know if all of the praise we get is justified yet. We'll see.

Your being to harsh on your own team my friend to the south. It's hard to think of your club as overrated when they did everything that was asked of them and then some over the course of last season. I think that every bit of credit your favorite squad received was fully justified. (after all, 12 months ago I would of laughed at any Bison fan who looked me in the eye and kept a straight face while telling me you'd come within a blocked FG of beating the Big Ten Rodents) xoopsx

[CopperCat]

Portland State, maybe because I know more about them than other teams, but I truly think they have been hyped up a lot. Went 7-4 last year, finished third in the conference, didn't go to the playoffs, have a new coach with new system, and yet the latest poll that gets posted has them at ninth?xconfusedx Don't get me wrong, I have always known that PSU is a tough game no matter where it is. But the hype is pretty generous.xtwocentsx

Great idea for a thread btw!!

[PSUVikings]

Portland State, maybe because I know more about them than other teams, but I truly think they have been hyped up a lot. Went 7-4 last year, finished third in the conference, didn't go to the playoffs, have a new coach with new system, and yet the latest poll that gets posted has them at ninth?xconfusedx Don't get me wrong, I have always known that PSU is a tough game no matter where it is. But the hype is pretty generous.xtwocentsx

Great idea for a thread btw!!

I will continue to say, this offense can do wonders. This offense took an 0-12 Hawaii team to 9-4 in a 1 year transition. Don't be surprised if PSU lives up to the expectations.

[PapaBear]

If Towson's line was so bad, why did the Tigers get one of their players drafted into the NFL?

Memo to sporswriter: Offensive lines generally have at least five members. Sometimes six. For the "line" to be labeled "good," they all have to hold up their end of the blocking bargain.

Maine had a wide receiver drafted from their 2005 team, and they have a RB from that year's team playing for the Jaguars. Would that mean their offense was good that year? (I'll save you the time and research; the answer is No.)

[andy7171]

Towson's o-line is good. They lost only the LT, Bushrod, to the NO Saints. Which hurts but they have 2-3 OTs that are capable of stepping up. The other 4 have played together for the last 2 years now. Its a good solid unit.

My concern about my Tigers is that I think they are TOO one dimensional on offense. Excellent pass blockers, not so sure about run blocking. In the Maine game last year, they ran up against an excellent defense in the rain. The rain grounded the air assault and the Maine defense shut down the ground game. It was a sad sight to see.
The Tigers are 5 deep at RB, hopefully they can crank up a running game. If not, we'll live and die with Schaefer.

[PapaBear]

Towson's o-line is good. They lost only the LT, Bushrod, to the NO Saints. Which hurts but they have 2-3 OTs that are capable of stepping up. The other 4 have played together for the last 2 years now. Its a good solid unit.

My concern about my Tigers is that I think they are TOO one dimensional on offense. Excellent pass blockers, not so sure about run blocking. In the Maine game last year, they ran up against an excellent defense in the rain. The rain grounded the air assault and the Maine defense shut down the ground game. It was a sad sight to see.
The Tigers are 5 deep at RB, hopefully they can crank up a running game. If not, we'll live and die with Schaefer.

Thanks for the props. Hate to be argumentative (well, OK, I don't really hate it ...), but the weather simply did not affect that game. It was a light drizzle, on and off, at worst. My family and friends tailgated in your lot.

Schaefer was 27 of 40, for 290 yards against us. That's hardly what I'd call "grounding" your passing game. On the other hand, he had 13 carries for MINUS 45 yards rushing. The fact is, your O-Line didn't show up to play. NFL prospect and all.

We fully expect things will be different in Orono this year. But let's not rewrite last year's gameday weather to create an excuse for the loss.

[Tribe4SF]

Towson, similarly, is a team that has improved every year in recent years. The Tigers have a lot of offensive talent, not just Schaefer. If Towson's line was so bad, why did the Tigers get one of their players drafted into the NFL? It is true that Towson needs to prove itself in big games, but the Tigers weren't far from the playoffs last year (a season-ending loss to JMU) and could be in contention again this year.

It wasn't the loss to JMU that kept them out, it was the previous loss at home to W&M. The Towson o-line was overmatched that day by a Tribe defensive front that made life miserable for Schaefer. Tribe sacked him 5 times, with Adrian Tracy getting 3 coming around Bushrod's side. As for Towson D, the Tribe had over 600 yards of offense...the high point of the season by far.

Towson lacked the balance and depth necessary to win the conference. Maybe they'll have it this year, but I'm not a believer yet.

[Mr. C]

Memo to sporswriter: Offensive lines generally have at least five members. Sometimes six. For the "line" to be labeled "good," they all have to hold up their end of the blocking bargain.

Maine had a wide receiver drafted from their 2005 team, and they have a RB from that year's team playing for the Jaguars. Would that mean their offense was good that year? (I'll save you the time and research; the answer is No.)

Memo to PapaBear. You are going to base what you saw in one game as to whether Towson had a good line, or not? Obviously you don't put up the passing numbers that Schaefer did without having a good line in front of you. BTW, I saw the Maine-Towson game on TV. Maybe Maine just had a good defense (which it did).

Some of the problems that Maine had on offense related to the fact that the Black Bears were still learning the spread, which had been installed at the end of the previous season. From other teams that I have seen use this offense (including two-time national champ Appalachian State), you should see a big step forward this season.

[PapaBear]

Memo to PapaBear. You are going to base what you saw in one game as to whether Towson had a good line, or not? Obviously you don't put up the passing numbers that Schaefer did without having a good line in front of you. BTW, I saw the Maine-Towson game on TV. Maybe Maine just had a good defense (which it did).

Some of the problems that Maine had on offense related to the fact that the Black Bears were still learning the spread, which had been installed at the end of the previous season. From other teams that I have seen use this offense (including two-time national champ Appalachian State), you should see a big step forward this season.

Mr C Mr C Mr C -- My comments about the Towson O-Line were related to their performance in the Maine game. I said they did not show up in THAT game. Since I didn't see them play in any other games, then, yes, you are correct, it would be inapporpriate to make any conclusions about their performance during the entire season. Which is why I didn't do so.

(However, if you read the post ahead of yours, it appears at least one W&M fan also questioned the Town O-Line play. But that's a different thread.)

I hope you're right about the Maine improving with the spread. No question it takes time to get the ... well .. timing and reads right. Personally, though, I believe that if Maine executes it better this year, it will be due in large part to our O-Line returning four of five starters.

Coming to Orono this year for any games?

[Bison06]

Your being to harsh on your own team my friend to the south. It's hard to think of your club as overrated when they did everything that was asked of them and then some over the course of last season. I think that every bit of credit your favorite squad received was fully justified. (after all, 12 months ago I would of laughed at any Bison fan who looked me in the eye and kept a straight face while telling me you'd come within a blocked FG of beating the Big Ten Rodents) xoopsx

I do think that NDSU deserves credit for a great season last year, but I still think we have a long way to go to prove we are one of the elite in FCS.

[JMU2004]

Memo to PapaBear. You are going to base what you saw in one game as to whether Towson had a good line, or not? Obviously you don't put up the passing numbers that Schaefer did without having a good line in front of you. BTW, I saw the Maine-Towson game on TV. Maybe Maine just had a good defense (which it did).

Some of the problems that Maine had on offense related to the fact that the Black Bears were still learning the spread, which had been installed at the end of the previous season. From other teams that I have seen use this offense (including two-time national champ Appalachian State), you should see a big step forward this season.


The Towson line that I saw in the JMU game was porous at best, and downright bad at times. Good lines don't have 3 bad games(so far) where the D-Line lived in the backfield.

[bluehenbillk]

Towson's O-Line has pretty much dominated UD the past 2 seasons.

[justsaying]

Although I respect everything coach Rocco is doing to improve their team, I feel Liberty is getting too much credit, granted that had a impressive improvement from going 1-10 to 6-5, I don't think a top 25 ranking or being picked to win conference is deserved just yet...

[GannonFan]

Towson's O-Line has pretty much dominated UD the past 2 seasons.


Further cementing the fact that UD's defensive line these past 2 years has been abysmal at best.

[SuperJon]

Although I respect everything coach Rocco is doing to improve their team, I feel Liberty is getting too much credit, granted that had a impressive improvement from going 1-10 to 6-5, I don't think a top 25 ranking or being picked to win conference is deserved just yet...

I agree. Let us prove it on the field first.

[AZGrizFan]

I think NAU, PSU and MSU aren't getting enough credit.

I think all of the SoCon outside of ASU gets too much credit.




:D :D :D :D



And Deleware. Them too. Too damned much credit. xeyebrowx

[89Hen]

I think NAU, PSU and MSU aren't getting enough credit.

I think all of the SoCon outside of ASU gets too much credit.




:D :D :D :D



And Deleware. Them too. Too damned much credit. xeyebrowx
xnodx ISU, EWU, SacSt, Weber and UNC are getting ripped off too. In my pre-season ballot I had the entire BSC ranked 1-9.

[AZGrizFan]

xnodx ISU, EWU, SacSt, Weber and UNC are getting ripped off too. In my pre-season ballot I had the entire BSC ranked 1-9.

NOW you're beginning to understand. Welcome aboard!!! xlolx :D

[89Hen]

Towson's O-Line has pretty much dominated UD the past 2 seasons.
Towson's going down this year! xmadx xwhistlex

[SoCon48]

I think NAU, PSU and MSU aren't getting enough credit.

I think all of the SoCon outside of ASU gets too much credit.




:D :D :D :D



And Deleware. Them too. Too damned much credit. xeyebrowx

Yeah giving a perennial power like Furman and 6 time NC GSU too much credit is pretty hard to do.

[AZGrizFan]

Yeah giving a perennial power like Furman and 6 time NC GSU too much credit is pretty hard to do.

Apparently not. xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx

[Lionsrking]

Underrated:

SHSU - seems the only real contender vs. McNeese this year. I'm sure SLC insiders may have different POVs.



I would disagree. Not that Sam Houston won't contend, but I think every team in the Southland Conference is capable of challenging McNeese. They rightly deserve to be the pre-season favorite but there isn't a lot of separation top to bottom in terms of talent. Obviously somebody has to finish first and somebody has to finish last but the race is by no means a foregone conclusion.

The jury is still out on us but if our QB situation pans out, we have a chance to be one of the surprises. Thought it would happen last year but we had way too many off field issues that had a detrimental affect on our team. We'll see what happens, but I think we'll be improved.

[Hansel]

underrated- Davis

overrated- any team on the East Coast ;)

[Kill'em]

Yeah giving a perennial power like Furman and 6 time NC GSU too much credit is pretty hard to do.

Unfortunately, it's hard to give a 3-8 team any credit. xbawlingx

[g-webb1994]

UT-Martin - Way too much pub...they finally learn how to win some games, and their coach bolts to a conference rival???? Not a good recipe for continued success.

Georgia Southern - I am far from an Eagles fan, but Hatcher was a stud coach at Valdosta State, and I fully expect them to rebound nicely from their debacle last season, and definitely have an impact on the SOCON race this fall. I'm not saying they will win it, but Appy, Furman, and Wofford had better not start writing GSU off as an automatic W.

IMO, Ivy league schools should not even be mentioned in polls for the mere fact they don't compete in the playoff system. If the Ivy would nut up and play playoff football (heck, give them an auto bid to entice them), then I could see mentioning them.xtwocentsx

[GaSouthern]

IMO, Ivy league schools should not even be mentioned in polls for the mere fact they don't compete in the playoff system. If the Ivy would nut up and play playoff football (heck, give them an auto bid to entice them), then I could see mentioning them.xtwocentsx

xnodx

[james_lawfirm]

UT-Martin - Way too much pub...they finally learn how to win some games, and their coach bolts to a conference rival???? Not a good recipe for continued success.

Georgia Southern - I am far from an Eagles fan, but Hatcher was a stud coach at Valdosta State, and I fully expect them to rebound nicely from their debacle last season, and definitely have an impact on the SOCON race this fall. I'm not saying they will win it, but Appy, Furman, and Wofford had better not start writing GSU off as an automatic W.

IMO, Ivy league schools should not even be mentioned in polls for the mere fact they don't compete in the playoff system. If the Ivy would nut up and play playoff football (heck, give them an auto bid to entice them), then I could see mentioning them.xtwocentsx

I agree about Ivy league teams, I wish they would just play some football after Thanksgiving. And I don't know anything about Tenn-Martin, except they did well last year for the first time in a while. But, even Mack Brown hisself would have a hard time at GaSo given the mess they were in after BVG left.

I know ASU writes no one off as a W until the game is over. But, it is going to take GaSo a year or two to get back to its winning ways. And, I believe the days of the Eagles' dominance of the SoCon are over. They will be lucky to be better than 5 - 6 in '07. I wish them the best.

[katstrapper]

I would disagree. Not that Sam Houston won't contend, but I think every team in the Southland Conference is capable of challenging McNeese. They rightly deserve to be the pre-season favorite but there isn't a lot of separation top to bottom in terms of talent. Obviously somebody has to finish first and somebody has to finish last but the race is by no means a foregone conclusion.

The jury is still out on us but if our QB situation pans out, we have a chance to be one of the surprises. Thought it would happen last year but we had way too many off field issues that had a detrimental affect on our team. We'll see what happens, but I think we'll be improved.


I agree about the Southland Conference. It is a dogfight every year. I think top to bottom it is very balanced. Towards the end of every season the conference race is up for grabs until the last week. This year will be no different.xcoffeex

[PantherRob82]

Some teams I think are flying under the radar a bit:

Tennessee-Martin. People still can't believe the Skyhawks can be good and that 2006 wasn't a fluke. They should be getting props for RB Donald Chapman, if nothing else.



I am a fan of the Skyhawks. Looking forward to watching them in 07.

[Sir William]

Georgia Southern - I am far from an Eagles fan, but Hatcher was a stud coach at Valdosta State, and I fully expect them to rebound nicely from their debacle last season, and definitely have an impact on the SOCON race this fall. I'm not saying they will win it, but Appy, Furman, and Wofford had better not start writing GSU off as an automatic W.

I can promise you, we never overlook the Eagles. Doesn't matter what their record was the year before. And I know they feel the same about us.

Furman, Appy, GSU, and Wofford never overlook each other...too much mutual respect for each other as dangerous and worthy opponents. Heck, in the SoCon, you had better not overlook anyone nowadays. Even Elon, Chatty, and Western can jump up and bite you. And yes, everyone is wary of the Citadel this year, and for good reason.

Some conferences have the luxury of having some members who can be overlooked by other conference members. We don't have that luxury in the SoCon.

[PantherRob82]

I will continue to say, this offense can do wonders. This offense took an 0-12 Hawaii team to 9-4 in a 1 year transition. Don't be surprised if PSU lives up to the expectations.

Didn't that Hawaii team have more weapons.

[Kill'em]

I can promise you, we never overlook the Eagles. Doesn't matter what their record was the year before. And I know they feel the same about us.

Furman, Appy, GSU, and Wofford never overlook each other...too much mutual respect for each other as dangerous and worthy opponents. Heck, in the SoCon, you had better not overlook anyone nowadays. Even Elon, Chatty, and Western can jump up and bite you. And yes, everyone is wary of the Citadel this year, and for good reason.

Some conferences have the luxury of having some members who can be overlooked by other conference members. We don't have that luxury in the SoCon.

Isn't that the truth. The SoCon is a lot more competitve than it has been in the past.

[TheBisonator]

I do think that NDSU deserves credit for a great season last year, but I still think we have a long way to go to prove we are one of the elite in FCS.

I would not say NDSU is completely overrated in the eyes of the FCS, but I think we're getting just a teeny bit too much credit than we deserve, simply because we have not had the chance to prove ourselves in the playoffs yet (thank you, NCAA.xsmhx ) If we were allowed to be in the playoffs last season and at LEAST got to the semifinals (minimum), then I think all our praise would have been deserved. But all the talk in the past about should NDSU be co-champion with App State and all that, I think that was just nonsense.

[DuckDuckGriz]

Hate to say it, but I think with Montana State's off the field problems people are putting them under the radar too early. That's where they thrive and they are always a wildcard team which will always turn heads during the season one way or another.

[PantherRob82]

Hate to say it, but I think with Montana State's off the field problems people are putting them under the radar too early. That's where they thrive and they are always a wildcard team which will always turn heads during the season one way or another.

agreed. Ash is a great coach.

[ngineer]

UT-Martin - Way too much pub...they finally learn how to win some games, and their coach bolts to a conference rival???? Not a good recipe for continued success.

Georgia Southern - I am far from an Eagles fan, but Hatcher was a stud coach at Valdosta State, and I fully expect them to rebound nicely from their debacle last season, and definitely have an impact on the SOCON race this fall. I'm not saying they will win it, but Appy, Furman, and Wofford had better not start writing GSU off as an automatic W.

IMO, Ivy league schools should not even be mentioned in polls for the mere fact they don't compete in the playoff system. If the Ivy would nut up and play playoff football (heck, give them an auto bid to entice them), then I could see mentioning them.xtwocentsx

Just because their idiot Presidents have their heads in the sand regarding playoffs does not justify penalizing the players and coaches from being included in the polls. There is more than enough cross-over between the Ivy and other conferences to get a good idea how good their teams are. In most years, the top 3 Ivy are worthy of top 25 consideration. In recent years some of their schools, Harvard and Penn in particular, would have been real challenges for any team in the playoffs.

[RichH2]

Since we play the top 3 in the Ivies again this year, I might wish that they weren't as good as they actually are. Yale particularly with that Offense will be a tough match up for most anyone

[ngineer]

Since we play the top 3 in the Ivies again this year, I might wish that they weren't as good as they actually are. Yale particularly with that Offense will be a tough match up for most anyone

Yes..What did Richard Nixon once say in his farewell address, "The hardest steel comes from the hottest fire.." Princeton, Harvard and Yale will be a tough gauntlet, coming after Villanova. Would be nice to have a 'breather' like Dartmouth...From what I hear, Cornell is improving, too, and I think they're visiting us next year.

[BEAR]

I am a fan of the Skyhawks. Looking forward to watching them in 07.

We'll be ready to welcome them to Estes Stadium...for a revenge game.

Which brings me to my portion of the discussion.

Overrated- UCA. I love my Bears and they might accomplish more than what the average fan expects, like last year, but to be honest our defense made that team. It's gone. We are ranked in one poll in the top 25. xeyebrowx I can't see it happening this year. SHSU looked beatable last year with only flashes of offensive power under Terry and what I thought was poor coaching but that might just be my view(try running that ball more DD). Maybe the new QB Bomar willl make a difference. But the Southland will be as much of a definition of parity as the ole' Gulf South is yearly.

Underrated- Missouri State. After watching that school just go under to UCA last year, I saw a talented, defensive minded team that is just off in it's chemistry. I don't know what it is but Missouri State is a good team that needs something on the offensive side to make it work. Even though we held them to under 100 yards of offense, we only won by like 3 or so points..they are dangerous and my pick.

Strange to have your team as the overrated and one of your opponents as underrated. It's going to be a long year..xlolx

[PantherRob82]

Underrated- Missouri State. After watching that school just go under to UCA last year, I saw a talented, defensive minded team that is just off in it's chemistry. I don't know what it is but Missouri State is a good team that needs something on the offensive side to make it work. Even though we held them to under 100 yards of offense, we only won by like 3 or so points..they are dangerous and my pick.



Terry Allen's teams at MSU will not be defensive minded, they just didn't have an option last year.

[JohnStOnge]

I think McNeese is probably overrated in the pre season rankings I've seen in that they're generally placed in or near the top 10. I do think it's reasonable to make them the Southland Conference favorite and I hope they improve enough to be a top 10 caliber club. However, they had bad defenses during the past four seasons and really bad defenses during the past three. Bad overall and particularly bad against the run. The Cowboys got back to the playoffs last year but they were 60th in total defense and 92nd in rushing defense.

I'm one of those who thinks it's pretty tough to be an elite team without a solid defense...including a solid run defense. McNeese is going to have to get back to playing defense like it did most years 1991 - 2002 in order to be truely "back." Hope it happens. But it's gotten to a point where they're going to have to show they can do it before good defense on McNeese's part becomes expected like it once was.

[colgate13]

I think Holy Cross is getting more love than they deserve.

[OL FU]

I think NAU, PSU and MSU aren't getting enough credit.

I think all of the SoCon outside of ASU gets too much credit.




:D :D :D :D



And Deleware. Them too. Too damned much credit. xeyebrowx

I think you base too much on one season:p

[SoCon48]

You mean two seasons?

[AZGrizFan]

I think you base too much on one season:p


Yeah, well I think you East Coasters base too much on 14 seasons. :D :D :D








Closed Circuit to MODS: Will I get in trouble for calling OL FU an "East Coaster"? Especially after that girl got her feet ripped off by a "coaster"? Just checking....didn't see anything about "coasters" in the TOS. xrulesx

[OL FU]

You mean two seasons?

Nope I think FU was a very good team in 05 and even better in 04
'06 can be debatedxrolleyesx

[OL FU]

Yeah, well I think you East Coasters base too much on 14 seasons. :D :D :D








Closed Circuit to MODS: Will I get in trouble for calling OL FU an "East Coaster"? Especially after that girl got her feet ripped off by a "coaster"? Just checking....didn't see anything about "coasters" in the TOS. xrulesx

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx I am offended:p xsmiley_wix

[YoUDeeMan]

And Deleware. Them too. Too damned much credit. xeyebrowx

Those Muntana Grozlies are probably overrated, too. xsmiley_wix

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Towson's o-line is good. They lost only the LT, Bushrod, to the NO Saints. Which hurts but they have 2-3 OTs that are capable of stepping up. The other 4 have played together for the last 2 years now. Its a good solid unit.

My concern about my Tigers is that I think they are TOO one dimensional on offense. Excellent pass blockers, not so sure about run blocking. In the Maine game last year, they ran up against an excellent defense in the rain. The rain grounded the air assault and the Maine defense shut down the ground game. It was a sad sight to see.
The Tigers are 5 deep at RB, hopefully they can crank up a running game. If not, we'll live and die with Schaefer.

I agree 100% Andy, you've provided a perfectly concise synopsis of Towson. Any good playoff team has a great running game. Just look at recent history. Maybe this will be their year to win the CAA South, but I doubt it.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I can't believe how clueless people are on this board about UT-Martin. I guess you didn't realize that the Skyhawks were seconds away from beating Southern Illinois (a two-time quarterfinalist) in the playoffs last fall when a long TD pass beat them. Donald Chapman is as good as ANY RB in FCS and UT-Martin has many other parts back from last year. The Skyhawks have been improving every year and there is no reason to think they won't again this year.

Towson, similarly, is a team that has improved every year in recent years. The Tigers have a lot of offensive talent, not just Schaefer. If Towson's line was so bad, why did the Tigers get one of their players drafted into the NFL? It is true that Towson needs to prove itself in big games, but the Tigers weren't far from the playoffs last year (a season-ending loss to JMU) and could be in contention again this year.


Geez, a little arrogant there Mr. C. We're all so clueless next to you... xrolleyesx I guess you didn't realize that a loss is still a loss and that this is just an opinion thread. JMU was inches away from cementing an unprecedented first-round home loss for the Penguins in the Ice Castle. But it didn't happen, did it? If you read my post, I compare them to Hampton. A good team, which could be great if supported by good competition week-in, week-out. UT-Martin will dominate the OVC, and I even have them ranked in the AGS poll at 15 because of that. But I still think they will continue to be one and done in the playoffs. Sorry if I base my opinion on a different set of facts than you.

Oh, and one or two players great players with NFL potential does not make for a great line. xnonox A combination of talent, chemistry and refined skill over the entire line is required. Then again, I'm just clueless... xwhistlex

[Mr. C]

Not being arrogant at all. But you obviously don't know anything about Tennessee-Martin to make the statements you made. The point I was making was that the "lack of competition" comment really didn't have anything to do with UTM's success or lack of success in the playoffs. The fact that the Skyhawks competed well against a quality opponent in the playoffs shows that they were a good team.

The only arrogance is in how you snubbed your nose at the OVC as some sort of weak conference. The OVC was more competitive last year than it had been in a decade with several good teams. The reason they didn't have more wins was that they kept knocking each other off (kind of sounds like the argument A-10/CAA supporters always make, doesn't it?).

The point is Tennessee-Martin was well-tested and well-deserving to be in the playoffs last year and has a similar squad in place this year that could even be better.

On Towson's line, again I ask the question how many times did you see them play last year? If the Tigers had such a bad line, they wouldn't have had as much success as they had. You could look at JMU's offensive line and if you took one game, say the Dukes' performance against Appalachian State, you might have had the impression that the JMU OL wasn't very good. You have to look at the whole picture.

[UAalum72]

The only arrogance is in how you snubbed your nose at the OVC as some sort of weak conference. The OVC was more competitive last year than it had been in a decade with several good teams. The reason they didn't have more wins was that they kept knocking each other off
The OVC was 3-8 vs. other I-AA teams with wins over 2-9 Chatty, one of two vs. 6-5 Gardner-Webb, and one over 6-5 WKU. That's not even counting their playoff losses, or new member Austin Peay, who had losses to Dayton, Cumberland KY, North Greenville, and Charleston WV. APU was knocked off three times by the older conference members.

OVC was also 0-9 vs. I-A, none within 25 points.

[OL FU]

The OVC was 3-8 vs. other I-AA teams with wins over 2-9 Chatty, one of two vs. 6-5 Gardner-Webb, and one over 6-5 WKU. That's not even counting their playoff losses, or new member Austin Peay, who had losses to Dayton, Cumberland KY, North Greenville, and Charleston WV. APU was knocked off three times by the older conference members.

OVC was also 0-9 vs. I-A, none within 25 points.

That was Chatty's '05 record.
There were either 6-5 or 7-4 in '06, I believe:o

[carney2]

I think Holy Cross is getting more love than they deserve.

I agree wholeheartedly. Details:

OVERRATED: Any Patriot League team that gets any buzz at this point. The League as a whole needs to prove that last year's incredibly bad performance against the rest of FCS was just a fluke.
Lehigh: No. 23 in the AGS preseason poll. The faithful are thumping the drums, but is anyone aware that this team that did not make the playoffs in 2006 lost 17 (SEVENTEEN!) starters?!
Lafayette: No. 28 in the preseason AGS poll with no proven QB and a defense that also needs to "prove" itself.
Colgate: Also made the AGS preseason poll as another receiving votes despite, like Lafayette, having no proven QB, as well as coming off a truly subpar year in 2006.
Holy Cross: A QB, two receivers, and plenty of smoke and mirrors. Still, a lot of folks are giving them a real shot at the League championship and a trip to the playoffs. Get real!

UNDERRATED: The Ivy League. Just because these guys will not entertain a playoff invite does not mean that they can't play the game.
Yale. An insult to have these guys at only No. 25 in the preseason AGS poll. McLeod, the RB, will eventually play on Sundays.
Harvard: Lost a lot of firepower on graduation day in June but still loaded. Most teams in FCS wuld trade their right arm for even the backup to the backup at QB.
Princeton: Always overlooked. Always in the hunt.
Penn: Not predicted to be top dog, but believe me when I tell you that they could come into your conference and beat the living crap out of some teams that you think are good.
Cornell: An enigma wrapped in a riddle. A serious look at their circumstances tells you that this should be a consistent contender in the Ivy League and one of the best programs in FCS. It is neither. It is, however, on the rise.

[UAalum72]

That was Chatty's '05 record.
There were either 6-5 or 7-4 in '06, I believe:oSorry, but 3-8 in 2006. http://www.gomocs.com/stats.asp?page=stats/Football/2006/TEAMGBG.HTM

2-9 was 2004, 6-5 in 2005

And that still leaves the league 3-8

[Mr. C]

The OVC was 3-8 vs. other I-AA teams with wins over 2-9 Chatty, one of two vs. 6-5 Gardner-Webb, and one over 6-5 WKU. That's not even counting their playoff losses, or new member Austin Peay, who had losses to Dayton, Cumberland KY, North Greenville, and Charleston WV. APU was knocked off three times by the older conference members.

OVC was also 0-9 vs. I-A, none within 25 points.

Boy, talk about putting a spin on an argument. I didn't mention anything about how the OVC did head-to-head with other conferences. I said the OVC was more competitive than it had been in several years. I was refering to all aspects of competition, including within the league. It is easy to just look at wins and losses, but UTM was 9-2 in the regular season, so it had to be beating someone out of conference, considering it had one conference loss. Jacksonville State had a narrow loss to a playoff team in Furman as well. There is more than one way to measure a school's success.

[OL FU]

Sorry, but 3-8 in 2006. http://www.gomocs.com/stats.asp?page=stats/Football/2006/TEAMGBG.HTM

2-9 was 2004, 6-5 in 2005

And that still leaves the league 3-8

I have to quit relying on my memory:o
Sorry

[UAalum72]

Boy, talk about putting a spin on an argument. I didn't mention anything about how the OVC did head-to-head with other conferences.
"The only arrogance is in how you snubbed your nose at the OVC as some sort of weak conference."

Well, if you can't snub a conference for being weak because it's competitive within itself, I guess the NEC and MAAC have been much more competitive too, lately.

If you want to say a conference isn't weak, you can only prove it by competition against other conferences (as has been told so often to the PFL and NEC). And the entire OVC was 3-8 vs. I-AA. And without the long-departed Western Kentucky, no playoff wins in how many years?

[Mr. C]

Yes, the NEC was a much improved league last year, too. Whether you won't to believe it, or not, the OVC was the best it had been in a number of years last season. Just because they didn't get many out of conference wins, or a playoff win (they were closer to doing that than they have been in quite awhile) doesn't mean they were not more competitive. How many OVC games did you see last year, BTW?

[UAalum72]

Yes, the NEC was a much improved league last year, too. Whether you won't to believe it, or not, the OVC was the best it had been in a number of years last season. Just because they didn't get many out of conference wins, or a playoff win (they were closer to doing that than they have been in quite awhile) doesn't mean they were not more competitive. How many OVC games did you see last year, BTW?
None, what's your point?

Competitive with who? Fact: the entire OVC had three OOC wins against teams with a combined record of 15-18. Despite, that, they not only got their automatic bid, they also got an AT-LARGE bid (and still didn't get a playoff win). In what way are they not a weak conference? Can you imagine the ruckus if a non-auto bid conference tried for an at-large with that resume? (Don't imagine, see last fall)

And this isn't about the Northeast Conference, but how many NEC games did you see last year?

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Sure, a lot of the conferences were much improved last year, but it is still relative to everyone else in FCS ball. The OVC is still ranked below several conferences if you look at average regular season GPI numbers:

GWFC - 24
CAA - 27.5
GFC - 34.6
SoCon 42.4
BSC - 43.9
OVC - 58.4
SLC - 62.9
PL - 70.4

And looking at past years, Mr. C is right in that the OVC improved last year relative to the recent past with average league rankings of 64.9, 65.9 and 67.4 respectively 2003-2005, but that improvement is still marginal IMO. Sorry, but in my humble work I still see the OVC as a relatively weak conference since those five considerably stronger conferences constitute 42 of 122 teams, meaning about 1/3 of FCS teams. xrulesx

I hope the stats support my original claim and show me to be a little less "snobbish" xcoffeex Sorry if i don't have the budget or the time to go see all the country's conference games. xbowx

So yes, UT-Martin = good team. I also think they're overrated and I'm entitled to my clueless opinion as much as the next clueless poster here on AGS... xpeacex

[Mr. C]

None, what's your point?

Competitive with who? Fact: the entire OVC had three OOC wins against teams with a combined record of 15-18. Despite, that, they not only got their automatic bid, they also got an AT-LARGE bid (and still didn't get a playoff win). In what way are they not a weak conference? Can you imagine the ruckus if a non-auto bid conference tried for an at-large with that resume? (Don't imagine, see last fall)

And this isn't about the Northeast Conference, but how many NEC games did you see last year?
I saw pretty much the whole league play at least once on TV, some more than once. If you had seen some of the OVC teams play (and their games were readily available to be seen), you might have had a different viewpoint on the improvement of the league. I understand fully why you are trying to downplay certain conferences, because you think your NEC should have a playoff bid instead of the OVC or MEAC.

[Mr. C]

Sure, a lot of the conferences were much improved last year, but it is still relative to everyone else in FCS ball. The OVC is still ranked below several conferences if you look at average regular season GPI numbers:

GWFC - 24
CAA - 27.5
GFC - 34.6
SoCon 42.4
BSC - 43.9
OVC - 58.4
SLC - 62.9
PL - 70.4

And looking at past years, Mr. C is right in that the OVC improved last year relative to the recent past with average league rankings of 64.9, 65.9 and 67.4 respectively 2003-2005, but that improvement is still marginal IMO. Sorry, but in my humble work I still see the OVC as a relatively weak conference since those five considerably stronger conferences constitute 42 of 122 teams, meaning about 1/3 of FCS teams. xrulesx

I hope the stats support my original claim and show me to be a little less "snobbish" xcoffeex Sorry if i don't have the budget or the time to go see all the country's conference games. xbowx

So yes, UT-Martin = good team. I also think they're overrated and I'm entitled to my clueless opinion as much as the next clueless poster here on AGS... xpeacex
And what evidence do you have that Tennessee-Martin is overrated? You think they are overrated because they play in the OVC? You think they are overrated because they lost a close game in the playoffs last fall? What is the deal?

[JohnStOnge]

Sure, a lot of the conferences were much improved last year, but it is still relative to everyone else in FCS ball. The OVC is still ranked below several conferences if you look at average regular season GPI numbers:

GWFC - 24
CAA - 27.5
GFC - 34.6
SoCon 42.4
BSC - 43.9
OVC - 58.4
SLC - 62.9
PL - 70.4



I'm confused. These are the conference GPI rankings from http://collegesportingnews.com/articles/artfiles/83218_confrank.txt :

Conference Rank
Rank, Conference (Average Rating)
1. Great West Football Conference (21.64)
2. Atlantic 10 Conference (25.62)
3. Gateway Football Conference (29.64)
4. Big Sky Conference (33.90)
5. Southern Conference (35.24)
6. Ivy League (42.19)
7. Big South Conference (46.87)
8. Southland Conference (50.25)
9. Ohio Valley Conference (50.98)
10. Patriot League (57.52)
11. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (58.16)
12. Southwestern Athletic Conference (64.12)
13. Northeast Conference (65.49)
14. Independents (66.75)
15. Pioneer Football League (69.46)
16. Metro-Atlantic Athletic Conference (83.84)

FYI, the I-AA/FCS 2006 conference rankings by Sagarin are pretty similar:

1 GREAT WEST (AA)= 60.82 60.24 ( 12) 5
2 ATLANTIC 10 (AA)= 56.48 56.97 ( 14) 12
3 GATEWAY (AA)= 55.15 54.19 ( 15) 8
4 BIG SKY (AA)= 53.48 53.39 ( 16) 9
5 SOUTHERN (AA)= 49.59 50.71 ( 17) 8
6 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 48.21 48.50 ( 18) 8
7 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 43.34 42.96 ( 20) 5
8 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 43.30 43.20 ( 19) 7
9 PATRIOT LEAGUE (AA)= 41.92 41.30 ( 21) 7
10 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 41.11 40.82 ( 22) 9
11 SOUTHWESTERN (AA)= 38.41 38.24 ( 23) 10
12 MID-EASTERN (AA)= 37.92 37.21 ( 24) 9
13 NORTHEAST (AA)= 33.36 32.92 ( 25) 8
14 I-AA INDEPENDENTS (AA)= 31.46 32.18 ( 26) 4
15 PIONEER (AA)= 27.90 29.69 ( 27) 8
16 METRO ATLANTIC (AA)= 19.03 19.84 ( 28) 5

[g-webb1994]

From 1996-2004, UT-Martin had a record of 12-89, with no more than two wins in any season during the stretch.

UT-M had a great year last season no doubt, they caked G-W's ass in the process as well. But the coach that came in and broke the losing bolted ship for a conference rival. If UT-M can get in the habit of playing .500 or better football over the next few seasons, then I will believe it.

[CopperCat]

I will continue to say, this offense can do wonders. This offense took an 0-12 Hawaii team to 9-4 in a 1 year transition. Don't be surprised if PSU lives up to the expectations.

That was Hawaii. And just because the system worked for them in one season doesn't mean the same will happen for PSU. CAN and HAVE are two entirely different things. The system CAN bring on instant success. Until you can say that you HAVE success from it this next season, you are still overrated. This kinda sounds like some of the NAU homers that are hanging around.....xrotatehx

[PaladinFan]

I doubt the Citadel will make the playoffs, but they have a fantastic chance to alter the playoff picture as they will have both Furman and ASU visiting them this season. They play well in Charleston.

[Mr. C]

From 1996-2004, UT-Martin had a record of 12-89, with no more than two wins in any season during the stretch.

UT-M had a great year last season no doubt, they caked G-W's ass in the process as well. But the coach that came in and broke the losing bolted ship for a conference rival. If UT-M can get in the habit of playing .500 or better football over the next few seasons, then I will believe it.

That is exactly the point I've been making. Everyone thinks that Tennessee-Martin is terrible because of that stretch from 1996-2004. This team isn't the same one that won 12 games in nine years. This team has most of its key components back from the team that won nine games and the OVC championship and came within a few seconds of beating Southern Illinois in the first round of the playoffs. Someone from Gardner-Webb should know how good Donald Chapman and company are.

[UAalum72]

I saw pretty much the whole league play at least once on TV, some more than once. If you had seen some of the OVC teams play (and their games were readily available to be seen), you might have had a different viewpoint on the improvement of the league. I understand fully why you are trying to downplay certain conferences, because you think your NEC should have a playoff bid instead of the OVC or MEAC.
Only instead of them if you insist on not expanding the playoffs. But again, this is not about the NEC.

If the OVC is so improved, why didn't they beat anybody?

I downplayed nobody, I just wrote facts. I really want to know how you think the OVC is not a weak conference.

And you haven't said yet how many NEC games you've seen.


Whether you won't to believe it, or not, the OVC was the best it had been in a number of years last season.
In order to believe that, I would also have to believe that the committee let them still have an automatic bid no matter how bad they were in a previous year, while still maintaining that the playoffs are only about finding the teams capable of becoming the champion.

[TheValleyRaider]

I agree wholeheartedly. Details:

OVERRATED: Any Patriot League team that gets any buzz at this point. The League as a whole needs to prove that last year's incredibly bad performance against the rest of FCS was just a fluke.

For now, it seems reasonable to suggest last year was the fluke, given that successes are not of a distant past, but merely '03, '04, '05. I'll be a bit more nervous watching PL OOC scores roll across the screen this season, for sure, but for all the teams to tumble as they did (and as quickly as they did) seems to suggest coincidence. The truth, in comparing '03-'05 to '06 may lie somewhere in the middle.


Lehigh: No. 23 in the AGS preseason poll. The faithful are thumping the drums, but is anyone aware that this team that did not make the playoffs in 2006 lost 17 (SEVENTEEN!) starters?!
Lafayette: No. 28 in the preseason AGS poll with no proven QB and a defense that also needs to "prove" itself.
Colgate: Also made the AGS preseason poll as another receiving votes despite, like Lafayette, having no proven QB, as well as coming off a truly subpar year in 2006.
Holy Cross: A QB, two receivers, and plenty of smoke and mirrors. Still, a lot of folks are giving them a real shot at the League championship and a trip to the playoffs. Get real!

Agreed, except for Holy Cross, sort of. Are they a favorite for the title? No, at least they shouldn't be. Are they going to have an impact on the race this season? They did the last two years with the same "smoke and mirrors." I'm not convinced they're capable of getting the 5-6 wins in the League they need for the title, however they beat Lafayette last year and Lehigh the year before (both times on the road). They're going to be something more than the bottom teams.


UNDERRATED: The Ivy League. Just because these guys will not entertain a playoff invite does not mean that they can't play the game.
Yale. An insult to have these guys at only No. 25 in the preseason AGS poll. McLeod, the RB, will eventually play on Sundays.
Harvard: Lost a lot of firepower on graduation day in June but still loaded. Most teams in FCS wuld trade their right arm for even the backup to the backup at QB.
Princeton: Always overlooked. Always in the hunt.
Penn: Not predicted to be top dog, but believe me when I tell you that they could come into your conference and beat the living crap out of some teams that you think are good.
Cornell: An enigma wrapped in a riddle. A serious look at their circumstances tells you that this should be a consistent contender in the Ivy League and one of the best programs in FCS. It is neither. It is, however, on the rise.

Indeed. The Ivies are a tough bunch, and 2003 Penn and 2004 Harvard would have done significant damage in the postseason had they been there. Darn shame of course, but that's a dead horse if I ever saw one. The Ivy race will be quite interesting to follow this year. Although I'm not sure I'd say what about Cornell's circumstances prepares them to be one of the best programs in FCS as opposed to one of the H-Y-P big three. Not quite sure where you're getting that from xeyebrowx

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

I agree wholeheartedly. Details:

OVERRATED: Any Patriot League team that gets any buzz at this point. The League as a whole needs to prove that last year's incredibly bad performance against the rest of FCS was just a fluke.
Lehigh: No. 23 in the AGS preseason poll. The faithful are thumping the drums, but is anyone aware that this team that did not make the playoffs in 2006 lost 17 (SEVENTEEN!) starters?!
Lafayette: No. 28 in the preseason AGS poll with no proven QB and a defense that also needs to "prove" itself.
Colgate: Also made the AGS preseason poll as another receiving votes despite, like Lafayette, having no proven QB, as well as coming off a truly subpar year in 2006.
Holy Cross: A QB, two receivers, and plenty of smoke and mirrors. Still, a lot of folks are giving them a real shot at the League championship and a trip to the playoffs. Get real!

UNDERRATED: The Ivy League. Just because these guys will not entertain a playoff invite does not mean that they can't play the game.
Yale. An insult to have these guys at only No. 25 in the preseason AGS poll. McLeod, the RB, will eventually play on Sundays.
Harvard: Lost a lot of firepower on graduation day in June but still loaded. Most teams in FCS wuld trade their right arm for even the backup to the backup at QB.
Princeton: Always overlooked. Always in the hunt.
Penn: Not predicted to be top dog, but believe me when I tell you that they could come into your conference and beat the living crap out of some teams that you think are good.
Cornell: An enigma wrapped in a riddle. A serious look at their circumstances tells you that this should be a consistent contender in the Ivy League and one of the best programs in FCS. It is neither. It is, however, on the rise.

IMHO, I think you are confusing the Ivies of the 1970's and early 1980's with those of today. Harvard and Yale -- and maybe Princeton -- will steal a bigtimer from the FBS on more than one occasion -- and Penn will get a kid in that its brethren cannot -- but overall I just don't think that the Ivies have the productive size, skill or the depth in the OL and DL to hang with the top FCS conferences. Now, if you are talking 30+ years ago, we'd be in 100% agreement. Back then, the Ancient Eight would beat anybody -- and usually did. In fact, Dartmouth circa '71 or '72 (I think) was the last Ivy to be ranked in the Div 1 Top 10 nationally. However, the Ivies' slide since the 70's has been consistent, distinct, and undeniable. I think more than anything, that competitive slide has paralleled the dramatic and equally consistent, distinct, and undeniable spiral of tuition costs with the handicap of nothing but need-based aid to offset them.

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

Oh, and lest we forget, the Ivies have admissions standards that would make a coach in any other conference (except the Patriot League) blanch -- or worse, .....

[Eyes of Old Main]

Furman, Appy, GSU, and Wofford never overlook each other...too much mutual respect for each other as dangerous and worthy opponents. Heck, in the SoCon, you had better not overlook anyone nowadays. Even Elon, Chatty, and Western can jump up and bite you. And yes, everyone is wary of the Citadel this year, and for good reason.

Some conferences have the luxury of having some members who can be overlooked by other conference members. We don't have that luxury in the SoCon.

No free rides in the SoCon. Although the same can be said about a few other conferences too.

[Eyes of Old Main]

I doubt the Citadel will make the playoffs, but they have a fantastic chance to alter the playoff picture as they will have both Furman and ASU visiting them this season. They play well in Charleston.

Wofford goes to Charleston too. Worse yet, it's the fourth game in a string for the Terriers that consists of at NC State, home for Appalachian, at Furman and at The Citadel. Talk about a rough September...

[Eyes of Old Main]

I think a few too many might be on the Wofford bandwagon. Truem the Terriers bring back a bunch of players and should be good, I'm not sure they deserve some of the the rankings seen in the magazines. At this point, I'd say they should be ranked between 15-20, definitely not Top 10. Also, there's no way they should be picked ahead of Furman in the SoCon until they can figure out how to actually beat the Paladins. I'm not sandbagging, I just think that the momentum of last years' second half may have created some expectations that are a touch high.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I'm confused. These are the conference GPI rankings from http://collegesportingnews.com/articles/artfiles/83218_confrank.txt :

Conference Rank
Rank, Conference (Average Rating)
1. Great West Football Conference (21.64)
2. Atlantic 10 Conference (25.62)
3. Gateway Football Conference (29.64)
4. Big Sky Conference (33.90)
5. Southern Conference (35.24)
6. Ivy League (42.19)
7. Big South Conference (46.87)
8. Southland Conference (50.25)
9. Ohio Valley Conference (50.98)
10. Patriot League (57.52)
11. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (58.16)
12. Southwestern Athletic Conference (64.12)
13. Northeast Conference (65.49)
14. Independents (66.75)
15. Pioneer Football League (69.46)
16. Metro-Atlantic Athletic Conference (83.84)


Yes, my methodology was a little different. I simply added up the "number" ranking, not the scientific GPI, and divided by numbers of teams in the conference. It comes out about the same, if not more favorable to the OVC and some other conferences because of outliers.

Anyway you slice it, the OVC is not a premier league in the country. My "evidence" about UT-Martin would be looking at historical trends. Teams that do well in all year from a weaker conference rarely go far in the playoffs. Are there cinderella stories? Sure. And don't get me wrong, I love the underdogs! I just think some underdogs get more credit than they're worth. See Coastal Carolina, Hampton, San Diego, all good teams from weak conferences. All overrated. Taking a good SIU team to the wire last year was good, but SIU was not a Montana, UMass or App St.

So Mr. C, let's just agree to disagree before I offend any other teams' fanbases! xrotatehx xoopsx

[GannonFan]

No free rides in the SoCon. Although the same can be said about a few other conferences too.


Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one - the Elon's and the rest of the bottom of the SoCon haven't managed to break the monopoly of the top teams in the SoCon, well, pretty much ever, so I think you'll get disagreement on how hard or easy the conference schedule is in the SoCon.

[PaladinFan]

I think a few too many might be on the Wofford bandwagon. Truem the Terriers bring back a bunch of players and should be good, I'm not sure they deserve some of the the rankings seen in the magazines. At this point, I'd say they should be ranked between 15-20, definitely not Top 10. Also, there's no way they should be picked ahead of Furman in the SoCon until they can figure out how to actually beat the Paladins. I'm not sandbagging, I just think that the momentum of last years' second half may have created some expectations that are a touch high.

Wofford's schedule last year was very front heavy. If the Terriers can make it past NCSU, Furman, App, and Citadel at 2-2 or better, they should be playoff bound.

[Eyes of Old Main]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one - the Elon's and the rest of the bottom of the SoCon haven't managed to break the monopoly of the top teams in the SoCon, well, pretty much ever, so I think you'll get disagreement on how hard or easy the conference schedule is in the SoCon.

I understand how you can feel that way, but we SoCon fans aren't kidding when we say that Elon has gotten a lot better. I'm not saying they are Big 3 material, but they are much more competitive. They might not be able to beat everyone in the conference, but if overlooked, they could create problems for anyone.

[Eyes of Old Main]

Wofford's schedule last year was very front heavy. If the Terriers can make it past NCSU, Furman, App, and Citadel at 2-2 or better, they should be playoff bound.

I would agree with that. A loss to NC State and a 2-1 split against Furman, Appalachian and The Citadel should set up a playoff run if Wofford can win out and finish 9-2. I'm not sure we have an argument at 8-3, though, considering we're playing a NAIA. xrolleyesx

[CID1990]

I would agree with that. A loss to NC State and a 2-1 split against Furman, Appalachian and The Citadel should set up a playoff run if Wofford can win out and finish 9-2. I'm not sure we have an argument at 8-3, though, considering we're playing a NAIA. xrolleyesx

Actually, Wofford could go 1-3 in that series and still be a playoff team. Considering the fact that it is likely that App will have the first spot if they live up to expectations, the second slot is likely to go to either Furman, Wofford, GSU, or The Citadel. The Citadel could beat Wofford in Charleston, but if we stay true to form, (Read inconsistent) we could also lose to GSU, Chatty, and even Elon. A loss at NCSU will not have really any effect on Wofford's chances, and they can still lose to Furman and App and make the playoffs, especially if The Citadel beats Furman but loses to GSU and Chatty. I think that this is a distinct possibility, since Wofford has a record of consistent play, and The Citadel does not.

All that being said, I think that The Citadel has an even shot at being 2-1 in the App-Furman-Wofford series. (I still don't think that anyone in the SoCon is yet to the defensive standpoint of cracking App's offense). We were within a touchdown of both Furman and Wofford last year in their stadiums. We are a different team in Charleston, even when we are bad. Two years ago against Furman was a good example of that.

[CID1990]

BTW... I am aware that the "second" playoff slot in the SoCon is an At Large bid... if history is any indicator, however, the SoCon generally sends two teams every year. That is why I believe it is realistic to think that a SoCon team can have two conference losses and make the playoffs.

[g-webb1994]

IMO Wofford will have to split the road games at FU and Citadel to stand a solid shot at the playoffs. Perhaps if my boys will play ball this year and help Wofford's strength of schedule, then maybe it could offset the Georgetown game.

[WCU LawCat]

We Catamounts are just going to sit back and see what happens. I honestly feel like every team in the leauge has a shot to be a suprise contender. I think Wofford will be solid. Furman SHOULD be solid. App state IS Solid. GSU has some good athletes and should finish at least .500. Elon would have been a good pick but they lost Pope and that may have them scrambling to find a leader. The Citadel could be solid but they just lost one of their top starting defenders Vest for the season due to suspension. WCU didn't really lose a lot in the way of key players but will have a lot of young guys in backup rolls. If WCU's young guys pan out and we can stay healthy we could be in the middle of things. UTC is a little bit of a question mark as well but Mr. C thinks they might contend.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

WCU LawCat - Are they legal? :P Oh to be in college again...

I agree that there will probably be a surprise contender in the SoCon. The same holds true for the CAA. Almost every year different teams are making the playoffs, so you can hardly just assume that those ranked in the top 25 will stay there for long.

In the SoCon, my underdog pick of the conference goes to the Citadel. xthumbsupx But with ASU still strong, Furman looking stronger than last year, a tough Wofford team, and GSU not likely to roll over dead, it'll be an uphill battle as always! What i like is the SoCon looking to be more than just the three headed monster people were used to seeing more often than not for several years.

[Kill'em]

I agree that The Citadel is going to be the surprise contender in the SoCon. If they continue their resurgence and Chattanooga and Elon continue their improvement the conference will be a very strong one.

[already123]

jmu?