St. Thomas Waiver Approved - Joins Summit League for 21-22: Football to Pioneer

[dbackjon]

https://news.stthomas.edu/july-15-2020-press-release/

A historic decision has officially cleared the path for Minnesota’s largest private university – the University of St. Thomas (https://www.stthomas.edu/) – to become the first program in the NCAA’s modern era to reclassify directly from Division III to Division I college athletics.
At its meetings today, the NCAA’s Division I Council approved a motion granting St. Thomas the ability to make the unprecedented jump (https://www.stthomas.edu/athletics-future/). With the decision, the Tommies officially accepted invitations to join the Summit League athletics conference, as well as the Pioneer Football League and Women’s Western Collegiate Hockey Association (WCHA).

[TheKingpin28]

Glad to have them in the conference. The media share is going to be decent from this.

With UNC joining in baseball, I can see WIU leaving sooner rather than later (due to travel costs and horrible funding) creating a solid travel partner for most sports if UNC were to fully join.

[BEAR]

For a minute there I thought this was about the islands.....xlolx

Man I need a vacation....xnodx

[RabidRabbit]

So Northern Colorado is joining for baseball? Nice! Get da bears to join all sports, and pretty much have the NCC back together again. Only missing 2 MN State schools & Augie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Schism55]

So Northern Colorado is joining for baseball? Nice! Get da bears to join all sports, and pretty much have the NCC back together again. Only missing 2 MN State schools & Augie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Morningside is disappoint xsmiley_wix

[Laker]

I think this was the right call for the NCAA. Tommies fit right in for the women's WCHA and Pioneer. I'm sure that Augie isn't very happy.

[RabidRabbit]

Morningside is right where their size shows they should be. Happy for their NAIA success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheKingpin28]

I think this was the right call for the NCAA. Tommies fit right in for the women's WCHA and Pioneer. I'm sure that Augie isn't very happy.But the rest of us are happy they stayed where they were.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[cx500d]

So Northern Colorado is joining for baseball? Nice! Get da bears to join all sports, and pretty much have the NCC back together again. Only missing 2 MN State schools & Augie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
and Morningside

[Laker]

Reusse's article about the great increase in mileage for UST as they move to the Pioneer.

https://www.startribune.com/in-far-flung-pioneer-league-st-thomas-football-team-is-in-for-the-long-haul/571784372/

[Gil Dobie]

Short road trip for buckets, for me.

[Bisonoline]

Short road trip for buckets, for me.

Thats right in your backyard.

[HAL_9000]

I think WIU needs to leave the Summit and the MVFC. WIU *****ed up back in 1994 when there was a huge shift. WIU basketball was good football was on the rise, our AD at the time had a paramount agenda of making women's sports at Western her full frontal focus. Cool Dr. Smilley.

Facilities were put on the back burner.

I just wish WIU would leave already. Honestly no hostilities intended but we should not be part of what has become a Dakota/Minnesota League. WIU will be out within two years is my belief.

[dewey]

Short road trip for buckets, for me.

Absolutely! For me as well. Let me know if you are ever interested in going to a game and meeting in person.

Dewey

[Gil Dobie]

Absolutely! For me as well. Let me know if you are ever interested in going to a game and meeting in person.

Dewey

Sounds like a plan Dewey.

[OhioHen]

Glad to have them in the conference. The media share is going to be decent from this.

With UNC joining in baseball, I can see WIU leaving sooner rather than later (due to travel costs and horrible funding) creating a solid travel partner for most sports if UNC were to fully join.

The Tar Heels are joining the Summit?

(Makes as much sense as calling Northern Colorado a "solid travel partner" for St. Thomas.)

[TheKingpin28]

The Tar Heels are joining the Summit?

(Makes as much sense as calling Northern Colorado a "solid travel partner" for St. Thomas.)Denver is already in the Summit so adding UNC as an affiliate is a good first step to what might become a full membership if/when WIU leaves and then creating two teams in the same area becoming a solid Travel partner.

St Thomas is about 20-25 minutes away so being able to see NDSU sports down here on a more consistent basis is fine by me, but they now have 2-4 bus trips in the XDSUs and potentially the UXDs depending on where they start their first game during an away trip.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Anthony215]

What sucks is the Johnnies will not be able to play the big boys in FBS for a payday and get that experience since they're in the Pioneer League and it's non-scholarship. I wonder how they'll be able to attract recruits and keep their great success w/o scholarship money to dangle.

[Bisonoline]

What sucks is the Johnnies will not be able to play the big boys in FBS for a payday and get that experience since they're in the Pioneer League and it's non-scholarship. I wonder how they'll be able to attract recruits and keep their great success w/o scholarship money to dangle.

Academic scholarships just like they are doing now.

[POD Knows]

What sucks is the Johnnies will not be able to play the big boys in FBS for a payday and get that experience since they're in the Pioneer League and it's non-scholarship. I wonder how they'll be able to attract recruits and keep their great success w/o scholarship money to dangle.Tommies

[NY Crusader 2010]

What sucks is the Johnnies will not be able to play the big boys in FBS for a payday and get that experience since they're in the Pioneer League and it's non-scholarship. I wonder how they'll be able to attract recruits and keep their great success w/o scholarship money to dangle.

No differently than how they did it at the D-III level where they had no scholarship money to dangle but still had to attract recruits. As far as winning, I would imagine the alumni support St. Thomas has is/will be greater than that of most Pioneer schools. This should allow them to be successful in that conference fairly quickly, and move up to scholarship FCS football in the long run should they decide to go that route.

[nodak651]

Hopefully they can keep the St. Johns game now that they will be in the pioneer. Has anyone heard anything on this? It's a huge money maker for both schools as it currently is. If not, St. Thomas should look to hosting or playing a neutral site game every year vs. any of the Dakkotas or UNI at the soccer stadium, if they can get up to San Diego's level.

Curious what home games will look like for St. Thomas in basketball. There will be A LOT of away fans at some of their home games. This is a great add for the conference.

I think hockey joins the CCHA in conjunction with an announcement for new arena plans.

[ST_Lawson]

Hopefully they can keep the St. Johns game now that they will be in the pioneer. Has anyone heard anything on this? It's a huge money maker for both schools as it currently is. If not, St. Thomas should look to hosting or playing a neutral site game every year vs. any of the Dakkotas or UNI at the soccer stadium, if they can get up to San Diego's level.

Pioneer League teams play lower-division schools all the time. If both schools want to continue the rivalry, I don't see any reason why they can't at this point. With them being in the Pioneer League, their only shot at the playoffs is the auto-bid, so it doesn't really matter who they play outside the conference. Teams in conferences that frequently get at-large bids do need to consider who they play OOC depending on what they need for their "resume". The Pioneer League doesn't really need to worry about that.

Just last year in the first 4 weeks (I assume they go to mostly conference games after that), you had:
Morehead State vs Union College
Butler vs Indiana Wesleyan
Davidson vs Virginia Lynchburg
Stetson vs Louisiana College
Drake vs Truman State
Morehead State vs Kentucky Christian
Butler vs Taylor
Davidson vs West Virginia Wesleyan
Valparaiso vs Truman State
Stetson vs Western New England

The biggest obstacle that I can see is that St. John's might not want to continue the rivalry if the other team is DI. It would likely become a very lopsided series pretty quickly.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Minneapolis media seem to think the series with St. John's is done after this year, but I haven't seen anything official.

I'd keep it. They won't draw 40,000 people for Drake.

[nodak651]

Minneapolis media seem to think the series with St. John's is done after this year, but I haven't seen anything official.

I'd keep it. They won't draw 40,000 people for Drake.

This. St. John's would probably want to split profits 50/50 at a neutral site or have a home and home, which could be a deal breaker for St. Thomas, even though St. Johns would prob put more butts in the seats at a neutral site game.

They could vs NDSU, but they prob don't want to be publicly executed on the football field. If I were them, and St. Johns was a no go. I'd prob start with a neutral site game vs USD or UND at the soccer field. Attendance would be great, and it wouldn't be as lopsided of a game.

- - - Updated - - -


Pioneer League teams play lower-division schools all the time. If both schools want to continue the rivalry, I don't see any reason why they can't at this point. With them being in the Pioneer League, their only shot at the playoffs is the auto-bid, so it doesn't really matter who they play outside the conference. Teams in conferences that frequently get at-large bids do need to consider who they play OOC depending on what they need for their "resume". The Pioneer League doesn't really need to worry about that.

Just last year in the first 4 weeks (I assume they go to mostly conference games after that), you had:
Morehead State vs Union College
Butler vs Indiana Wesleyan
Davidson vs Virginia Lynchburg
Stetson vs Louisiana College
Drake vs Truman State
Morehead State vs Kentucky Christian
Butler vs Taylor
Davidson vs West Virginia Wesleyan
Valparaiso vs Truman State
Stetson vs Western New England

The biggest obstacle that I can see is that St. John's might not want to continue the rivalry if the other team is DI. It would likely become a very lopsided series pretty quickly.

How many of those are DIII?

[ST_Lawson]

How many of those are DIII?

Union College is DIII
Indiana Wesleyan is NAIA DI
Virginia Lynchburg is NCCAA and ineligible for NCAA or NAIA currently
Louisiana College is DIII
Truman State is DII
Kentucky Christian is NAIA
Taylor University is NAIA
West Virginia Wesleyan is DII
Western New England is DIII

So, out of that list, 3 are DIII, 2 are DII, 3 are NAIA, 1 is outside of either NCAA or NAIA.

[NDSUKurt]

[QUOTE=nodak651;2897338]This. St. John's would probably want to split profits 50/50 at a neutral site or have a home and home, which could be a deal breaker for St. Thomas, even though St. Johns would prob put more butts in the seats at a neutral site game.

They could vs NDSU, but they prob don't want to be publicly executed on the football field. If I were them, and St. Johns was a no go. I'd prob start with a neutral site game vs USD or UND at the soccer field. Attendance would be great, and it wouldn't be as lopsided of a game.


I could see St. Thomas attempting to sign home and home contracts or 2 for 1 deals with UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, and Northern Iowa and maybe Illinois State, Western Illinois, and other regional teams. They would be smart to have their "home game" at Target Field or US Bank Stadium or somewhere where they (St. Thomas) cam make huge money for the game. Then they would simply bus the return game and it is a win for them.

I could also see St. Thomas playing many of the local Wisconsin Division 3 schools as they are local and would draw fairly well.

[TheKingpin28]

This. St. John's would probably want to split profits 50/50 at a neutral site or have a home and home, which could be a deal breaker for St. Thomas, even though St. Johns would prob put more butts in the seats at a neutral site game.

They could vs NDSU, but they prob don't want to be publicly executed on the football field. If I were them, and St. Johns was a no go. I'd prob start with a neutral site game vs USD or UND at the soccer field. Attendance would be great, and it wouldn't be as lopsided of a game.

- - - Updated - - -



How many of those are DIII?MNUFC cant let people play football on their field. The playoff game was ruined cause replacing the field was almost impossible.

When the next 12 game season happens, (if there is room on the schedule), if the Twins decide to try and convince NDSU to do the gimmick again against UST, give NDSU 60% of everything UST 30% of everything and the Twins 10% of everything and I would have to believe Larsen takes a look at that. At 40000 seats roughly (500 of which are probably SRO) getting 24000 in ticket sales plus the 60% of the luxury seating and 60% of concessions, that would be hard to turn down. He'd still have 6 home games plus this gimmick and would be a nice olive branch to welcoming them into the Summit League while also giving the team a good warm-up game to kickoff the OOC schedule. Give it 3-5 years and UST will be competing with San Diego for the playoff bid.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Laker]

Give it 3-5 years and UST will be competing with San Diego for the playoff bid.

We can only hope that Miss St Thomas is in the same league as Miss San Diego!

[TheKingpin28]

We can only hope that Miss St Thomas is in the same league as Miss San Diego!If Miss St Thomas is in the league as Miss San Diego; you, myself, and Dewey will all be in good hands!

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[cx500d]

Hopefully they can keep the St. Johns game now that they will be in the pioneer. Has anyone heard anything on this? It's a huge money maker for both schools as it currently is. If not, St. Thomas should look to hosting or playing a neutral site game every year vs. any of the Dakkotas or UNI at the soccer stadium, if they can get up to San Diego's level.

Curious what home games will look like for St. Thomas in basketball. There will be A LOT of away fans at some of their home games. This is a great add for the conference.

I think hockey joins the CCHA in conjunction with an announcement for new arena plans.
D1 vs D3? It only happens in the Southland Conference

[NY Crusader 2010]

The St. John's game will probably stay around for another 2-3 years as the the Tommies transition to Division I. They will then need to make way for opportunities that more properly advance the St. Thomas football program.

Would St. John's ever be a candidate to move to Division I?

[JacksFan40]

D1 vs D3? It only happens in the Southland Conference
SDSU did it in 2014 against UW-Oshkosh. Not a fun game considering SDSU looked like they had zero interest, and Oshkosh knew they stood no chance.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Georgetown played a DI v. DIII game this past season beating Catholic 68-0. And Catholic is a bad team in a very mediocre DIII conference. They are scheduled to play again in 2021 and 2022 IIRC, including a game AT Catholic.

Hampton last year played a road game AT D3 SUNY Maritime in the Bronx -- a team much worse than even Catholic U. Hampton was forced to go dumpster diving after leaving the MEAC on short notice. Don't remember final score but I think it was in the ballpark of 52-0 at halftime with limited scoring thereafter.

When the MAAC had football, the majority of the out-of-conference activity was against DIII opposition.

[Laker]

The St. John's game will probably stay around for another 2-3 years as the the Tommies transition to Division I. They will then need to make way for opportunities that more properly advance the St. Thomas football program.

Would St. John's ever be a candidate to move to Division I?

I think that they love their big fish in a small pond way too much. Beautiful campus, nice facilities, they outdraw St Cloud State. I just don'think that they would want to leave D3.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown played a DI v. DIII game this past season beating Catholic 68-0. And Catholic is a bad team in a very mediocre DIII conference. They are scheduled to play again in 2021 and 2022 IIRC, including a game AT Catholic.

This is what happens when there aren't opponents to fill a schedule.

[bonarae]

This is what happens when there aren't opponents to fill a schedule.

Hope that the Tommies will make it to D.C.? xchinscratchx


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TheKingpin28]

I think that they love their big fish in a small pond way too much. Beautiful campus, nice facilities, they outdraw St Cloud State. I just don'think that they would want to leave D3.

Until St. Olaf gets curbed stomped 100-0 consistently and then we will be playing the same song over. Only difference is, if SJU wants out, the media will report it (UST gets coddled by the Star Tribune, which makes sense) that they want out vs how it played out with UST where it was an agreement that the Admins of the other schools would look bad and "force" UST out so UST could make a "legitimate" case to the NCAA saying they were "forced" out for being too good, when in reality, they have been wanting to go D1 for years now and finally found their chance and took the shot and scored. SJU will be heavily scrutinized compared to UST when it comes to how the media would report on it.

Honestly, if SJU were to go D1 and get added to the mix, I would be against it. Zero reason to have 3 D1 schools all within 1 hour of each other (waiting for clenz to say it is actually slightly above 1 hour) and it would steal from the Cities greatly. Problem is, St John's has baseball and we both know the Summit needs all baseball members they can get, especially for when WIU leaves (though adding SJU would give them busing options for UST/SJU), and they do not want to piss of their newest member by telling them their arch-rival is not allowed to be in the conference. We all know if SJU got in before Augustana, the Sanford funding could dry up real quick and I do not want NDSU in a "new D2" conference. UST made sense due to sports, location, and media market. SJU would create recruiting problems for Olympic sports and Summit League Football would most likely be a go, especially if/when UNCo gets added. So assuming WIU would stay, the new 12 league team would have this for football.

NDSU
SDSU
USeD
GFCC
UST
UNCo
SJU
WIU

Not necessarily a fan of this league, but travel wise, it would cut down on flights significantly. Only flights would realistically be UNCo and WIU for most schools (maybe the GFCC/USeD game as 5.5 hours is a long ride) but when it comes to Olympic sports, having Denver in the league is going to help UNCo consider condensing travel greatly. They would finally have a school they could bus to and all of the schools, outside of WIU, are easily paired up with each other along the I29/I44/I49/I94 corridors:

UNCo/Denver

ORU/UMKC
UMKC/Omaha
Omaha/USeD
USeD/SDSU
SDSU/UST/NDSU
UST/NDSU/SDSU
NDSU/UST/SDSU
NDSU/GFCC

[Laker]

Kingpin in correct in that UST has wanted to move up since the early 80s when Mark Dienhardt was coaching. Sid Hartman had it in his column way back then. Also about the kid gloves treatment by the Strib and WCCO- how many D3 schools have a clear channel 50,000 watt non-directional AM station doing their football games. As I have driven around the state on game day it is easier to get them on radio in many spots than the Gophers!

[nodak651]

Until St. Olaf gets curbed stomped 100-0 consistently and then we will be playing the same song over. Only difference is, if SJU wants out, the media will report it (UST gets coddled by the Star Tribune, which makes sense) that they want out vs how it played out with UST where it was an agreement that the Admins of the other schools would look bad and "force" UST out so UST could make a "legitimate" case to the NCAA saying they were "forced" out for being too good, when in reality, they have been wanting to go D1 for years now and finally found their chance and took the shot and scored. SJU will be heavily scrutinized compared to UST when it comes to how the media would report on it.

Honestly, if SJU were to go D1 and get added to the mix, I would be against it. Zero reason to have 3 D1 schools all within 1 hour of each other (waiting for clenz to say it is actually slightly above 1 hour) and it would steal from the Cities greatly. Problem is, St John's has baseball and we both know the Summit needs all baseball members they can get, especially for when WIU leaves (though adding SJU would give them busing options for UST/SJU), and they do not want to piss of their newest member by telling them their arch-rival is not allowed to be in the conference. We all know if SJU got in before Augustana, the Sanford funding could dry up real quick and I do not want NDSU in a "new D2" conference. UST made sense due to sports, location, and media market. SJU would create recruiting problems for Olympic sports and Summit League Football would most likely be a go, especially if/when UNCo gets added. So assuming WIU would stay, the new 12 league team would have this for football.

NDSU
SDSU
USeD
GFCC
UST
UNCo
SJU
WIU

Not necessarily a fan of this league, but travel wise, it would cut down on flights significantly. Only flights would realistically be UNCo and WIU for most schools (maybe the GFCC/USeD game as 5.5 hours is a long ride) but when it comes to Olympic sports, having Denver in the league is going to help UNCo consider condensing travel greatly. They would finally have a school they could bus to and all of the schools, outside of WIU, are easily paired up with each other along the I29/I44/I49/I94 corridors:

UNCo/Denver

ORU/UMKC
UMKC/Omaha
Omaha/USeD
USeD/SDSU
SDSU/UST/NDSU
UST/NDSU/SDSU
NDSU/UST/SDSU
NDSU/GFCC

Agreed with everything. The one saving grace about St. Johns is that although they have a smaller enrollment, their Alumns have a lot of pride and the football support there is better than St. Thomas. Since they are an all boys school, would they not have to be worried about title 9, or are they too closely related to St. Ben's that both schools would have to move up? If only the Mens teams moved to D1, and if they cut hockey, this would be doable for them IMO. There are a lot of SJU and St. Thomas alumns in the Twin Cities, and all of the interaction between the fans would be fun, especially because they actually have pride in their school unlike at places like SCSU and Duluth, where most of the students remain Gopher 1st sports fans. I'd be against this for recruiting talent saturation reasons, but this add would add even greater awareness to the Summit in MN, and it would make it less likely for St. Thomas to eventually bolt to the MVC (if they become very successful).

[Laker]

Agreed with everything. The one saving grace about St. Johns is that although they have a smaller enrollment, their Alumns have a lot of pride and the football support there is better than St. Thomas. Since they are an all boys school, would they not have to be worried about title 9, or are they too closely related to St. Ben's that both schools would have to move up?

Fantastic question! I've never really thought about that! I don't know what the NCAA would rule on that. With the makeup of St Ben's I can't see them wanting to come along. Very unique situation. The Tommies don't have that- I don't know when the allowed women on campus but I think the original pairing was them with St Catherines.

[TheKingpin28]

Kingpin in correct in that UST has wanted to move up since the early 80s when Mark Dienhardt was coaching. Sid Hartman had it in his column way back then. Also about the kid gloves treatment by the Strib and WCCO- how many D3 schools have a clear channel 50,000 watt non-directional AM station doing their football games. As I have driven around the state on game day it is easier to get them on radio in many spots than the Gophers!

I would not be shocked if their football games eventually get moved to CBS (similar how NDSU has NBC over Notre Dame) eventually, especially if they end up playing any of the Dakota schools. The Goofers better not look now, but I could see them being furious if UST gets their level of exposure since they are relegated to B1G Network/National Media (if they keep winning) and there is no reason to believe the media won't pimp out UST. Hell, that's what they have been talking about on WCCO the last 2 days during the 5pm/6pm news slots. Glen Taylor, IIRC, is anti-Goofers due to his Mankato ties and I would not be shocked if he continues to push forward any opportunities he can to step over them.

All of that said, I could see MidCo trying to score visual media rights to UST once they join the Summit. MidCo has media rights to a decent chunk of the Summit League but WCCO is not going to give up UST that easily. If WCCO/CBS thinks adding UST to their visual programming, maybe they move them over to 4-2/4-3 for games when they are on. People will watch UST in the cities, especially if they are playing a Dakota school since us here in the TC do not get to see Olympic sports (hell I'd even watch/maybe even attend college bball if NDSU was playing/at UST) unless they are on ESPN3 (MidCo is not here in the cities) and if they were on 4-2/4-3 if they were playing UST, that would be awesome.

There is no reason to believe that the visual, digital, and media print will not be pushing the UST narrative hard. I know people personally who think adding UST was a bad idea, but the media market they acquired (even if it is most likely short term) can boost The Summit League and that is always great for acquiring new schools into the fold. The next school should be UNCo for full membership but as mentioned previously, Augustana would **** their pants and I do not know if the Dakota schools want to lose that funding.

[TheKingpin28]

Agreed with everything. The one saving grace about St. Johns is that although they have a smaller enrollment, their Alumns have a lot of pride and the football support there is better than St. Thomas. Since they are an all boys school, would they not have to be worried about title 9, or are they too closely related to St. Ben's that both schools would have to move up? If only the Mens teams moved to D1, and if they cut hockey, this would be doable for them IMO. There are a lot of SJU and St. Thomas alumns in the Twin Cities, and all of the interaction between the fans would be fun, especially because they actually have pride in their school unlike at places like SCSU and Duluth, where most of the students remain Gopher 1st sports fans. I'd be against this for recruiting talent saturation reasons, but this add would add even greater awareness to the Summit in MN, and it would make it less likely for St. Thomas to eventually bolt to the MVC (if they become very successful).

St Thomas would go to the Big East before MVC. The MVC is, in their mind, on par with the Summit, otherwise, why would they have not tried to get into a psuedo-private Catholic conference and poach Murray St to keep the balance? The Summit is easier to market to their fans then convincing them to drive to Missery St/Evansville vs the Dakota schools. More busing options in The Summit than in the MVC. The Dakotas and potentially Omaha VS UNI/Drake and potentially Loyola.

If SJU came CSB would also have to come with them and adding them is a nice travel partner, but to dilute the D1 talent in the area, just that much further would hinder the sustained excellence of athletics at both NDSU and SDSU. There is zero reason for 3ish D1 schools in the state of Minnesota but I already know if SJU/CSB wanted in, they have their hands tied. Then again, Augustana, as I had mentioned previously, would lose their damn minds if the another D3 school got in before they did and we all know the Dakotas want that Sanford money to keep coming in.

[Yote 53]

Morningside is right where their size shows they should be. Happy for their NAIA success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Augustana has similar size and similar resources to Morningside.

Just saying.

[RabidRabbit]

Kinda makes the case that Augie isn’t ready to be a DI school.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Laker]

Augustana has similar size and similar resources to Morningside.

Just saying.

MSU-Mankato had a practice at Morningside on the Friday night before they played at Wayne State College. I was there to watch and talked to one of their assistants at length. He said that they love being in NAIA- the rivals, the lack of travel, the big home crowds and most of all winning national titles. They are exactly where they want to be.

Not sure if Augie is ready to make that jump. Or if they ever will be with that land locked campus and USF right next door.

[NY Crusader 2010]

St Thomas would go to the Big East before MVC. The MVC is, in their mind, on par with the Summit, otherwise, why would they have not tried to get into a psuedo-private Catholic conference and poach Murray St to keep the balance? The Summit is easier to market to their fans then convincing them to drive to Missery St/Evansville vs the Dakota schools. More busing options in The Summit than in the MVC. The Dakotas and potentially Omaha VS UNI/Drake and potentially Loyola.

If SJU came CSB would also have to come with them and adding them is a nice travel partner, but to dilute the D1 talent in the area, just that much further would hinder the sustained excellence of athletics at both NDSU and SDSU. There is zero reason for 3ish D1 schools in the state of Minnesota but I already know if SJU/CSB wanted in, they have their hands tied. Then again, Augustana, as I had mentioned previously, would lose their damn minds if the another D3 school got in before they did and we all know the Dakotas want that Sanford money to keep coming in.

St. Thomas is NEVER getting into the Big East. And sorry but the MVC is still a very reputable mid-major basketball league which St. Thomas and/or any of the Dakota schools should join in half a second if the opportunity ever materializes.

And the talk about Augustana needs to stop. Is there really a market for a FIFTH Division I school from the Dakotas? Any of the D-II schools in MN with D-I hockey should be full-time D-I before "Augie". Or Grand Valley State or even the UW schools that are currently D-III.

[mvfcfan]

I wouldn't mind seeing NDSU and SDSU in the MVC. I'd even be fine with USD, but the rest of the Summit League is pure garbage. St Thomas is a D3 school and there is a huge difference between D3 basketball and D1 basketball. It will take them a while to adjust.

[Herder]

I wouldn't mind seeing NDSU and SDSU in the MVC. I'd even be fine with USD, but the rest of the Summit League is pure garbage. St Thomas is a D3 school and there is a huge difference between D3 basketball and D1 basketball. It will take them a while to adjust.

Pure garbage? . . . ORU, Denver, UST, ND, SD, SDSU, NDSU, Omaha is a really solid group of 8, and UMKC is in a good market for the league. Western IL lately hasn’t been good, but I like the MBB hire.

IMO Summit > Horizon (stats agree) and gaining on the MVC which is now a 1-bidder. Summit conf tournament going to epic in the years to come.

[TheKingpin28]

St. Thomas is NEVER getting into the Big East. And sorry but the MVC is still a very reputable mid-major basketball league which St. Thomas and/or any of the Dakota schools should join in half a second if the opportunity ever materializes.

And the talk about Augustana needs to stop. Is there really a market for a FIFTH Division I school from the Dakotas? Any of the D-II schools in MN with D-I hockey should be full-time D-I before "Augie". Or Grand Valley State or even the UW schools that are currently D-III.

No one wants Augie. You know it's bad when NDSU, GFCC, SDSU, and USeD all agree on something. The only way I can see NDSU joining the MVC is if SDSU comes. Problem with that is both legislatures will never let GFCC/USeD get away from NDSU/SDSU again.

All of that said, I would not want to see NDSU join the MVC as it currently stands. The travel conference they are in suits them well and they usually have a legitimate shot to win the Men's bball tourney. I doubt NDSU wants to put 3 million a year into bball when they know that team will never win a natty in D1 as long as it is full D1 and not split like football. Knowing that they can win the Summit, both league and tourney, and win in the 1st/2nd round of the tourney is what they strive for. Football will, as it stands now, reign king at the school and the MVC schools are more concerned with bball than football. At least with the Summit, all of the Dakota schools want to win across the board (sans hockey which is it's own beast) in all sports and have done as well as the MVC in bball as of late (inb4 clenz goes on a 9 page tirade as to how I am "wrong" on this one) while not spending nearly as much as they do.

They crush the track and field (both indoor and outdoor), they own the softball, and baseball has been decent this decade. Wrestling is in the Big 12, so that is a non-issue for me. They need to do better at Women's bball and volleyball though, that's for sure.

[Laker]

They need to do better at Women's bball and volleyball though, that's for sure.

I remember when NDSU and UND were the powers of D2 women's basketball. Towards the end SDSU & USD took over those spots and have held that in the Summit.

[TheKingpin28]

I remember when NDSU and UND were the powers of D2 women's basketball. Towards the end SDSU & USD took over those spots and have held that in the Summit.

The problem is that NDSU, when they are good at something, will go all in to maintain that power. They have entrenched themselves in track and field (indoor and outdoor), softball, wrestling, football, and mens bball, (maybe baseball but that has slid as of late). If they wanted to get back to being a contender, they could, they just do not want to upset the cash cow that keeps the athletics running. Would I like to see them get better at men's bball and other sports, of course, but if that comes at the expense of football, not a chance.

[Laker]

The problem is that NDSU, when they are good at something, will go all in to maintain that power. They have entrenched themselves in track and field (indoor and outdoor), softball, wrestling, football, and mens bball, (maybe baseball but that has slid as of late). If they wanted to get back to being a contender, they could, they just do not want to upset the cash cow that keeps the athletics running. Would I like to see them get better at men's bball and other sports, of course, but if that comes at the expense of football, not a chance.

Remember when they had a big push to start hockey? I think when they looked into the cost that they figured it would hurt the other sports too much. Especially if they had to start a women's team. UND couldn't sustain it.

[TheKingpin28]

Remember when they had a big push to start hockey? I think when they looked into the cost that they figured it would hurt the other sports too much. Especially if they had to start a women's team. UND couldn't sustain it.

A part of me wishes they would have had a hockey team, but knowing I can tell all of the GFCC rubes that NDSU is undefeated since 1894, really rubs them the wrong way. If they could have gotten into the original WCHA (pipedream) that would have been ideal, but travel costs for women's hockey would be relatively cheap for the WCHA since all schools outside of Madison and tOSU are within busing distance, (technically Madison could be, but it would be a long ride) and would be a nice fit. Men's on the other hand would be hard to sustain. Scheels is too far of a drive for students and all of the talent would go to GFCC or one of the elite Minnesota schools.

[nodak651]

I wouldn't mind seeing NDSU and SDSU in the MVC. I'd even be fine with USD, but the rest of the Summit League is pure garbage. St Thomas is a D3 school and there is a huge difference between D3 basketball and D1 basketball. It will take them a while to adjust.

I wouldn't be surprised if St. Thomas is already generating more money through ticket sales and Alumni donations than your MVC school, Indiana State. The Summit as a whole matches up pretty well with the MVC public schools. DU would likely be at least near the middle of the list, and St. Thomas has tons of potential and passionate alumni/donors. Not buying what you are selling. The MVC isn't what it used to be, and the Summit is just getting better and better. The numbers below show this, and it looks like Indiana State pairs well with the garbage Summit schools. xnodx



SCHOOL
CONF
AD Generated Revenue (total revenue less school funds and student fees)
TOTAL REVENUE
TOTAL EXPENSES
TOTAL ALLOCATED
% ALLOCATED


North Dakota State (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Summit
19,128,802
$27,252,716
$27,489,584
$8,123,914 (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
29.81


North Dakota (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Summit
16,218,590
$30,499,909
$30,414,914
$14,281,319
46.82


South Dakota State (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Summit
13,423,831
$23,406,082
$23,075,994
$9,982,251 (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
42.65


Missouri State (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Mo. Valley
12,338,699
$28,767,433
$28,767,433
$16,428,734
57.11


Northern Iowa (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Mo. Valley
10,694,534
$20,393,653
$21,739,142
$9,699,119
47.56


Nebraska-Omaha (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Summit
9,923,167
$20,533,164
$20,195,866
$10,609,997
51.67


Southern Illinois (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Mo. Valley
9,725,751
$22,507,927
$31,852,498
$12,782,176
56.79


Illinois State (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Mo. Valley
8,649,834
$29,004,681
$26,742,643
$20,354,847
70.18


South Dakota (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Summit
7,295,188
$19,924,008
$20,095,967
$12,628,820
63.38


Indiana State (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Mo. Valley
3,841,561
$17,405,534
$17,189,492
$13,563,973
77.93


Western Illinois (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
Summit
3,022,715
$10,591,600
$11,954,285
$7,568,885
71.46


Missouri-Kansas City (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)
WAC
2,731,567
$26,825,857
$12,978,814
$24,094,290
89.82

[mvfcfan]

North Dakota's head coach left to take an assistant job at Illinois State. Do I need to say more? The 2 XDSU's and USD are MVC caliber. The rest of the Summit League is not. UND, Denver, and Omaha seem to care more about hockey than they do about basketball. ORU has potential, but UMKC is a low major. WIU has been struggling bad financially. I'm sure St Thomas has potential, but they are going to struggle for a while. If they don't then it will show how weak the Summit League really is.

Someone said the Summit is better than the Horizon. I'm going to say that is true, purely based on the 3 Dakota schools. The HL doesn't have one school that the MVC should be considering. Really the HL did the SL a favor by taking the two IUPU schools.

[OhioHen]

The 2 XDSU's and USD are MVC caliber.

Someone said the Summit is better than the Horizon. I'm going to say that is true, purely based on the 3 Dakota schools.

If both are true, why did Scott Nagy move from SDSU (Summit) to Wright State (Horizon)? Because the Horizon League job is a better stepping stone position for higher profile coaching jobs

[nodak651]

North Dakota's head coach left to take an assistant job at Illinois State. Do I need to say more? The 2 XDSU's and USD are MVC caliber. The rest of the Summit League is not. UND, Denver, and Omaha seem to care more about hockey than they do about basketball. ORU has potential, but UMKC is a low major. WIU has been struggling bad financially. I'm sure St Thomas has potential, but they are going to struggle for a while. If they don't then it will show how weak the Summit League really is.

Someone said the Summit is better than the Horizon. I'm going to say that is true, purely based on the 3 Dakota schools. The HL doesn't have one school that the MVC should be considering. Really the HL did the SL a favor by taking the two IUPU schools.

Jones was on the verge of being fired. He did just enough to get by, but why pay a guy more than he is worth? He was likely given a wink and a nudge, and is now making near the most, if not the most of any Associate head coach in the MVC, without getting a pay raise. The current coach, Sather, came in and in his first year was making 25% more than Jones. The only reason that Jones stuck around was because his team made the NCAA tournament in 2017, which is a hell of a lot more recent than Indiana State... and that is with basketball as third fiddle!

[nodak651]

If both are true, why did Scott Nagy move from SDSU (Summit) to Wright State (Horizon)? Because the Horizon League job is a better stepping stone position for higher profile coaching jobs

Because they paid more? The coach that replaced Nagy at SDSU is T.J. Otzelberger, who is now at UNLV and is the highest paid coach in the Mountain West. Where did Nagy get hired at after coaching at Wright State?

[mvfcfan]

...... made the NCAA tournament in 2017, which is a hell of a lot more recent than Indiana State... and that is with basketball as third fiddle!

It's harder to make the NCAA tournament when you play in a good conference with schools that prioritize basketball. We beat NDSU this season in basketball and were up pretty big most of the game. NDSU had a good stretch to start the second half, but we mostly dominated that game. I'm pretty confident if we were in the Summit League or the Big Sky we would have more NCAA appearances.

[F'N Hawks]

North Dakota's head coach left to take an assistant job at Illinois State. Do I need to say more? The 2 XDSU's and USD are MVC caliber. The rest of the Summit League is not. UND, Denver, and Omaha seem to care more about hockey than they do about basketball. ORU has potential, but UMKC is a low major. WIU has been struggling bad financially. I'm sure St Thomas has potential, but they are going to struggle for a while. If they don't then it will show how weak the Summit League really is.

Someone said the Summit is better than the Horizon. I'm going to say that is true, purely based on the 3 Dakota schools. The HL doesn't have one school that the MVC should be considering. Really the HL did the SL a favor by taking the two IUPU schools.

Uh, Jones was told to find another job and make it easy on himself. He was UND for 14 years I believe and shouldn't have made it past 5.

[OhioHen]

Because they paid more? The coach that replaced Nagy at SDSU is T.J. Otzelberger, who is now at UNLV and is the highest paid coach in the Mountain West. Where did Nagy get hired at after coaching at Wright State?

Hasn't moved yet. Average stay at WSU in recent times if 4 years. Nagy has one more year before he's likely gone.

[SDFS]

Hasn't moved yet. Average stay at WSU in recent times if 4 years. Nagy has one more year before he's likely gone.

Why would you think that? 5th, 2nd, T-1st, 1st.. Seem to be doing OK might need to win conference tourney but looks to be building a solid program.


2016–17 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball _season)
Wright State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_Wright_State_Raiders_men%27s_baske tball_team)
20–12
11–7
5th



2017–18 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball _season)
Wright State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Wright_State_Raiders_men%27s_baske tball_team)
25–10
14–4
2nd
NCAA Division I First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament )


2018–19 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball _season)
Wright State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_Wright_State_Raiders_men%27s_baske tball_team)
21–14
13–5
T–1st
NIT First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_National_Invitation_Tournament)


2019–20 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball _season)
Wright State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Wright_State_Raiders_men%27s_baske tball_team)
25–7
15–3
1st
NIT (Cancelled) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_National_Invitation_Tournament)

[OhioHen]

Why would you think that? 5th, 2nd, T-1st, 1st.. Seem to be doing OK might need to win conference tourney but looks to be building a solid program.


2016–17 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball _season)

Wright State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_Wright_State_Raiders_men%27s_baske tball_team)

20–12

11–7

5th




2017–18 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball _season)

Wright State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Wright_State_Raiders_men%27s_baske tball_team)

25–10

14–4

2nd

NCAA Division I First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament )



2018–19 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball _season)

Wright State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_Wright_State_Raiders_men%27s_baske tball_team)

21–14

13–5

T–1st

NIT First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_National_Invitation_Tournament)



2019–20 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball _season)

Wright State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Wright_State_Raiders_men%27s_baske tball_team)

25–7

15–3

1st

NIT (Cancelled) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_National_Invitation_Tournament)





Similar overall to Brad Brownell's 4 years at WSU that led to the job at Clemson. Not unlike Billy Donlon who was fired after six years (for non-basketball reasons). Only the first coach in program history was at WSU longer than 6 years.

[bonarae]

Meanwhile...

AFCA magazine ran an article / cover story about the Tommies' transition to the FCS.

http://tommiesports.com/news/2021/3/30/football-afca-magazine-profiles-tommie-fb-move-to-d-i.aspx

PDF story is at the link.

[Friday I'm in Love]

Tommie-Johnnie rivalry ends without a true final game. That blows.

[Puddin Tane]

For a minute there I thought this was about the islands.....xlolx

Man I need a vacation....xnodx

I thought it was the Catholic high school in Houston. They do more recruiting than most colleges.

[maine612]

Tommie-Johnnie rivalry ends without a true final game. That blows.

I've been to the last few Johnnie/Tommie games and I can vouch for the greatness of that rivalry. The game at Allianz field in 2019 was one of the best college games I have seen. Since moving to Minnesota in 2008 I have become an adopted Johnnie, respect the heck out of UST, and will miss that annual event. One of college football's greatest rivalries ended.

Now, let's get my UMaine Black Bears to travel to St. Paul for a game. Talk about a dream scenario for me.

612

[Laker]

I've been to the last few Johnnie/Tommie games and I can vouch for the greatness of that rivalry. The game at Allianz field in 2019 was one of the best college games I have seen. Since moving to Minnesota in 2008 I have become an adopted Johnnie, respect the heck out of UST, and will miss that annual event. One of college football's greatest rivalries ended.

Now, let's get my UMaine Black Bears to travel to St. Paul for a game. Talk about a dream scenario for me.

612

Honestly- no matter what level of football that you follow- go to a game at St John's. The lakes, the Johnnie bread, the natural bowl, the leaves falling- it is a football cathedral. And I'm a Methodist.

[maine612]

Honestly- no matter what level of football that you follow- go to a game at St John's. The lakes, the Johnnie bread, the natural bowl, the leaves falling- it is a football cathedral. And I'm a Methodist.

And don't forget, Mass commences shortly after the end of the game in the Church!

612

[Professor Chaos]

Tommie-Johnnie rivalry ends without a true final game. That blows.


I've been to the last few Johnnie/Tommie games and I can vouch for the greatness of that rivalry. The game at Allianz field in 2019 was one of the best college games I have seen. Since moving to Minnesota in 2008 I have become an adopted Johnnie, respect the heck out of UST, and will miss that annual event. One of college football's greatest rivalries ended.

Now, let's get my UMaine Black Bears to travel to St. Paul for a game. Talk about a dream scenario for me.

612
Do they have to stop? Not familiar with St John's conference and whether they play OOC games but St Thomas should have at least 3 OOC games per year and it seems like most Pioneer League schools play at least one sub-D1 game with many playing multiple each year. Given the crowds this game has drawn at Target Field and Allianz Field I would think both schools could benefit from playing again... maybe not every year but at least every few years to keep the flame burning.

[maine612]

Do they have to stop? Not familiar with St John's conference and whether they play OOC games but St Thomas should have at least 3 OOC games per year and it seems like most Pioneer League schools play at least one sub-D1 game with many playing multiple each year. Given the crowds this game has drawn at Target Field and Allianz Field I would think both schools could benefit from playing again... maybe not every year but at least every few years to keep the flame burning.

I guess there is nothing legally stopping them from playing, but a D3 Saint John's team would get smoked by an FCS team. These games are over sadly.

612

[nodak651]

Do they have to stop? Not familiar with St John's conference and whether they play OOC games but St Thomas should have at least 3 OOC games per year and it seems like most Pioneer League schools play at least one sub-D1 game with many playing multiple each year. Given the crowds this game has drawn at Target Field and Allianz Field I would think both schools could benefit from playing again... maybe not every year but at least every few years to keep the flame burning.

I read or heard something where the AD talked about this and he said the games will not continue. However, Yes, they could and should play. Move the final game to US Bank next fall at least and make some money. Obv issues are prob that SJU doesn't want to get walloped by a long time rival and STU is trying to break away from D3 identity. Would love to listen in on a conversation between the two schools AD's and coaches on this though.

[ST_Lawson]

Do they have to stop? Not familiar with St John's conference and whether they play OOC games but St Thomas should have at least 3 OOC games per year and it seems like most Pioneer League schools play at least one sub-D1 game with many playing multiple each year. Given the crowds this game has drawn at Target Field and Allianz Field I would think both schools could benefit from playing again... maybe not every year but at least every few years to keep the flame burning.

Maybe, but I wonder if St. John's would be willing to play in a "rivalry game" that is likely to be pretty 1-sided once St. Thomas is at the DI level. I realize that they're still both non-scholarship, but St. Thomas will probably be upgrading their training facilities and may end up a step ahead of your average DIII school.

[Professor Chaos]

I guess there is nothing legally stopping them from playing, but a D3 Saint John's team would get smoked by an FCS team. These games are over sadly.

612
Well, no offense to the Pioneer league but there's a pretty wide gulf between non-scholly FCS and full 63 scholly FCS. I'm sure St Thomas would enjoy a recruiting advantage just from having the D1 classification and probably an increased recruiting budget but it's not like it's NDSU playing St Johns. Although I thought St Thomas indicated they wanted to move to scholarship football at some point so if/when that happens I wouldn't blame St Johns for wanting nothing to do with a game given the monstrous advantage St Thomas would have.


Maybe, but I wonder if St. John's would be willing to play in a "rivalry game" that is likely to be pretty 1-sided once St. Thomas is at the DI level. I realize that they're still both non-scholarship, but St. Thomas will probably be upgrading their training facilities and may end up a step ahead of your average DIII school.
Yeah, I'd still think the average Pioneer League team is an elite level D3 team due to advantages already mentioned but if St Johns wants to keep the rivalry alive it's not an insurmountable gap. I'd imagine a win, while being less likely, would be even more satisfying if it's over a former rival moved to D1. But sounds like the point is moot since it's not going to happen based on nodak's post regarding the comments from the ADs.

[OhioHen]

I guess there is nothing legally stopping them from playing, but a D3 Saint John's team would get smoked by an FCS team. These games are over sadly.

612

I would take St. John's over Valpo, Butler, and Davidson most years.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Well, no offense to the Pioneer league but there's a pretty wide gulf between non-scholly FCS and full 63 scholly FCS. I'm sure St Thomas would enjoy a recruiting advantage just from having the D1 classification and probably an increased recruiting budget but it's not like it's NDSU playing St Johns. Although I thought St Thomas indicated they wanted to move to scholarship football at some point so if/when that happens I wouldn't blame St Johns for wanting nothing to do with a game given the monstrous advantage St Thomas would have.


Yeah, I'd still think the average Pioneer League team is an elite level D3 team due to advantages already mentioned but if St Johns wants to keep the rivalry alive it's not an insurmountable gap. I'd imagine a win, while being less likely, would be even more satisfying if it's over a former rival moved to D1. But sounds like the point is moot since it's not going to happen based on nodak's post regarding the comments from the ADs.

That gulf does seem to be shrinking, at least a little bit. The Pioneer has now won playoff games against the Big Sky. A middle-of-the-Pioneer Drake team almost beat Top 25 Iowa State a few years back. Non-scholly FCS football is definitely a stronger product than the MAAC/NEC/Pioneer contingent playing in the early 2000's.

[nodak651]

That gulf does seem to be shrinking, at least a little bit. The Pioneer has now won playoff games against the Big Sky. A middle-of-the-Pioneer Drake team almost beat Top 25 Iowa State a few years back. Non-scholly FCS football is definitely a stronger product than the MAAC/NEC/Pioneer contingent playing in the early 2000's.

I dunno about that. Drake ISU game was kind of an anomaly based on how the game was scheduled, the time of year, and weather.

San Diego is good, but they are to the Pioneer league what St. Thomas was to the MIAC. Pioneer can't ride Sand Diego's coat tails if they can never beat them.

[Bisonoline]

I guess there is nothing legally stopping them from playing, but a D3 Saint John's team would get smoked by an FCS team. These games are over sadly.

612

They could still play for a couple of years before the scholarship advantage would take effect.

[97Torero]

And San Diego with its 4th fumble and 7th pic of their 4 game season found the recioe to lose today for the first time in league since 2015.

[Laker]

UST is dropping men's and women's tennis during their move from D3 to D1. Even for the Tommies the money barrel isn't bottomless.

https://news.stthomas.edu/may-11-2021-faq/

[DFW HOYA]

Summit League tennis is all over the place: Denver, Tulsa (ORU), Omaha, Des Moines (Drake) North Dakota, Valpo, Bloomington/Normal (Illinois State). That's a big jump from the bus league the Tommies were in before.

[Anthony215]

They could actually just make Tennis a intramural or club activity where they can set up games against local schools regardless of division. Travel cost would be minimum and no scholarship money would be needed.

[acbearkat]

I guess there is nothing legally stopping them from playing, but a D3 Saint John's team would get smoked by an FCS team. These games are over sadly.

612

I think a Division III school could beat Houston Baptist. How on earth HBU is allowed to play DI football is beyond me. The football stadium has one side of bleachers and the other side of the field is right next to a CVS. HBU should never have been added to the Southland Conference. I think their stadium only holds 5,000, which wouldn't even qualify it to host many Texas high school playoff games.

[DFW HOYA]

I think a Division III school could beat Houston Baptist. How on earth HBU is allowed to play DI football is beyond me. The football stadium has one side of bleachers and the other side of the field is right next to a CVS. HBU should never have been added to the Southland Conference. I think their stadium only holds 5,000, which wouldn't even qualify it to host many Texas high school playoff games.

Hey, it could be worse. Try recruiting with this field for the last 15 years. That's not a CVS in the lower edge of the screen, that's a power plant.

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/stadia-msf.jpg

[Anthony215]

Hey, it could be worse. Try recruiting with this field for the last 15 years. That's not a CVS in the lower edge of the screen, that's a power plant.

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/stadia-msf.jpg

DIdn't they finally upgrade the stadium at the conclusion of the 2019 season? I thought I saw photos of a renovated stadium still small seating of like 2500-3000 but bleachers on both sides and a adequate press box.

[DFW HOYA]

DIdn't they finally upgrade the stadium at the conclusion of the 2019 season? I thought I saw photos of a renovated stadium still small seating of like 2500-3000 but bleachers on both sides and a adequate press box.

Renovations, below. Capacity is now 4,000. However, due to some other issues over roads and right-of-way, the visitors side was not built.

The power plant is still there, however.

http://www.hoyafootball.com/images/stadia/msf_proposed_5c.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

[Anthony215]

Renovations, below. Capacity is now 4,000. However, due to some other issues over roads and right-of-way, the visitors side was not built.

The power plant is still there, however.

http://www.hoyafootball.com/images/stadia/msf_proposed_5c.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

Sheesh well on the bright side at least there are permanent seats on the home side now although the only way they'll get 4000 people to watch a game there is if they were hosting Howard or brought in a top 10 FCS program like JMU, NDSU, SDSU or Sam Houston State and the likelihood of that is slim to none lol.

[DFW HOYA]

Sheesh well on the bright side at least there are permanent seats on the home side now although the only way they'll get 4000 people to watch a game there is if they were hosting Howard or brought in a top 10 FCS program like JMU, NDSU, SDSU or Sam Houston State and the likelihood of that is slim to none lol.

4,000 is not a high bar to climb with any degree of promotion; and frankly, it won't be Howard. HU has no interest in playing Georgetown.

The problem is that in the first three weeks of the season, everyone wants to play "up" and no one wants to play Georgetown because it isn't considered an "up" game. Former opponents like Duquesne, Wagner and Stony Brook now set their course for FBS guarantee games. What's left is schools that sign one game series and don't return games to DC (Dayton, Sacred Heart, St. Francis, Del State, Morgan St.) The Ivies used to be a source of games but they've dialed it back and there's only one Ivy opponent on future schedules after 2021. So...who's left to bus or fly to DC for no guarantee, or would actually call Georgetown and pay them for a game?

[Professor]

4,000 is not a high bar to climb with any degree of promotion; and frankly, it won't be Howard. HU has no interest in playing Georgetown.

The problem is that in the first three weeks of the season, everyone wants to play "up" and no one wants to play Georgetown because it isn't considered an "up" game. Former opponents like Duquesne, Wagner and Stony Brook now set their course for FBS guarantee games. What's left is schools that sign one game series and don't return games to DC (Dayton, Sacred Heart, St. Francis, Del State, Morgan St.) The Ivies used to be a source of games but they've dialed it back and there's only one Ivy opponent on future schedules after 2021. So...who's left to bus or fly to DC for no guarantee, or would actually call Georgetown and pay them for a game?

Don't get why Howard and Georgetown don't have a long term series

[Anthony215]

Don't get why Howard and Georgetown don't have a long term series

I agree it would rival the Towson/Morgan State annual tilt for the Battle of Baltimore. The Howard & Georgetown series could involve a City Cup Trophy and yearly bragging rights for the Best in DC.