When will a Private School win a NC???

[blukeys]

Time to explore this never resolved topic. All excuses, er, I mean reasons that we are moving up on the 20th anniversary of a private school winning the NC need to be stated for the unitiated. I know there are some intelligent private schools defenders out there and would love to hear from them. So let's hear it from LFN, 13, and of course the purple people eater crowd!!!!xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wasn't JMU a private school that won recently? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

[Col Hogan]

JMU is a public institution in the Commonwealth of Virginia...

[McTailGator]

Wasn't JMU a private school that won recently? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

James Madison University, also known as JMU, is a public coeducational research university located in Harrisonburg, Virginia, U.S. Founded in 1908 as the State Normal and Industrial School for Women at Harrisonburg, the university has undergone four name changes until settling with James Madison University

[blukeys]

Wasn't JMU a private school that won recently? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

Poll finally up Chuck. JMU is a state supported school along the lines of William and Mary and Delaware.

[GannonFan]

Any year now - besides Colgate, Wofford was probably the second best team in 2003 and would've won it if not for Delaware. Obviously Furman is a contender, along with other teams consistently in the playoffs (Lehigh, Lafayette, Hofstra, etc). It'll happen again.

[AZGrizFan]

Time to explore this never resolved topic. All excuses, er, I mean reasons that we are moving up on the 20th anniversary of a private school winning the NC need to be stated for the unitiated. I know there are some intelligent private schools defenders out there and would love to hear from them. So let's hear it from LFN, 13, and of course the purple people eater crowd!!!!xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx


When pigs fly. xcoffeex

[blukeys]

When pigs fly. xcoffeex

Another voter for option 7!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[WUTNDITWAA]

Furman is too good not to win a second one in the near future. Heck, if Ingle doesn't slip just short of Furman's Endzone of Pain in 2005, we're probably not having this conversation.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Didn't know JMU was "part-state" like W&M, thanks for the clarification. My uninformed opinion says that at some point one of the private schools in the power "public/private hybrid" conferences will win (SoCon, CAA) if the Patriot League doesn't go to some for of scholarships. If the Patriot League decides to add some form of limited scholarships to the mix, the odds go up. If the Ivies join the playoffs, it goes up more. If the Big South keeps improving, it goes up more.

[WUTNDITWAA]

James Madison is a full state institution.

[OL FU]

However long it is, it is too longxrolleyesx :p

[Ivytalk]

In the next decade, but not this year.

[OL FU]

In the next decade, but not this year.

Furman in 2008, the year that 20,000 hen fans arehttp://www.youth2000ny.com/Help/crying%20baby.gif

[th0m]

James Madison is a full state institution.

Yes we are a full state school (and grossly underfunded at that) not a semi-private institution like Delaware, W&M or UVa. But, I'll take it as a compliment that we're regarded as a private institution!

[Col Hogan]

Yes we are a full state school (and grossly underfunded at that) not a semi-private institution like Delaware, W&M or UVa. But, I'll take it as a compliment that we're regarded as a private institution!

WIlliam and Mary is a public institution of the Commonwealth, just as JMU is...my daughter just graduated from W&M...

There is a push by some to take it private...but it's public right now...

[R.A.]

Hampton's private.

[OL FU]

Hampton's private.


xnodx xnodx Tell 'em to get in line behind Furmanxsmiley_wix

[james_lawfirm]

Hampton's private.


That may be true, but they are a LLLOOONNNGGG way from a NC. And I base that statement on their underachieving & early-exiting #4 seed of two years ago.

[ngineer]

I think it can be done within the next 5 years. Coen came into Lehigh with the express intention of taking the program to the 'next level'. Likewise, I think Lafayette, Colgate, Furman, Wofford, and Hampton are all capable of putting together 'dream' seasons.
Private schools have made it to the finals five times now in the last 28 years..That averages once every 5.6 years of 'getting there' and sooner or later the getting there will be a little better.
Private school finalists:
1979 Lehigh
1985 Furman
1988 Furman--NCAA Champion
2001 Furman
2003 Colgate

[blukeys]

So far 35 of the 65 respondents think that a private school can win in the next 10 years. Since 1978, only one Private School, Furman, has one a NC. In short the private schools are 1-27 in winning NC's. Can any of the private school adherents explain what will be the change in the next 10 years that will make the difference. Or are the Private schools just banking on the odds?

[fuEMO]

So far 35 of the 65 respondents think that a private school can win in the next 10 years. Since 1978, only one Private School, Furman, has one a NC. In short the private schools are 1-27 in winning NC's. Can any of the private school adherents explain what will be the change in the next 10 years that will make the difference. Or are the Private schools just banking on the odds?

Injuries will always play a part in any team winning a national championship. In Furman's case, we need all the pieces to have a chance to win the big game.

2001 Furman vs Montana. Louis Ivory plays on one wheel. An ill-advised move by departing Bobby Johnson. Our trio of tailbacks were good enough to beat GSU at their house, when it was darn near impossible.

1985 Furman vs GSU. We lose a nail-biter. But Furman was playing without some major weapons NFL player Chas Fox was injured as was stud fullback Kenneth Goldsmith.

1989 Furman is clickin better than 1988. Quarterback Frankie DeBusk has a knee injury against W&M, Furman still makes it to the semis and loses to SFA in a freak snowstorm.

I'm not trying to make excuses but for a private school like Furman, the investment in redshirting and developing players usually pays off every 3 to 4 years. These seniors are needed to make up for the disadvantage in athletic ability of the team. This is why I feel good about Furman under BL. In years past Furman's history would have predicted a 6-5 or at best 7-4 record in 2006. Furman hobbled into the playoffs playing multiple freshmen on both sides of the ball. Furman should be stronger this season and even better in 2008 and 2009. If I was picking a target date for Furman to make noise in Chatty I would go with this year and 2009.

[HIU 93]

That may be true, but they are a LLLOOONNNGGG way from a NC.

Oh, ye of little faith.xrotatehx

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

Best bets in the near future: Furman, Richmond, Wofford, Hampton.... don't see Colgate or any other PL team getting it done. When it comes right down to it, despite preferred financial grants, the scholarship schools are pulling ahead too far overall, .....

[ElonPride]

How is Richmond shaping up for the upcoming season?

[AndrewFU21]

So far 35 of the 65 respondents think that a private school can win in the next 10 years. Since 1978, only one Private School, Furman, has one a NC. In short the private schools are 1-27 in winning NC's. Can any of the private school adherents explain what will be the change in the next 10 years that will make the difference. Or are the Private schools just banking on the odds?

Colgate played in the championship game in 2003, and Furman was arguably only a few plays away in 2004 and 2005, losing by a very slim margin to the eventual champ both years. It'll happen again, but the problem is that there really aren't that many private schools out there that can compete anymore. Wofford and Richmond have made recent playoff runs, and have some potential, and the PL has produced some good teams lately, along with Hampton, but beyond that there aren't many others. If the Ivy League would participate it would definitely increase the odds of a private school winning the championship.

[Grizalltheway]

Colgate played in the championship game in 2003, and Furman was arguably only a few plays away in 2004 and 2005, losing by a very slim margin to the eventual champ both years. It'll happen again, but the problem is that there really aren't that many private schools out there that can compete anymore. Wofford and Richmond have made recent playoff runs, and have some potential, and the PL has produced some good teams lately, along with Hampton, but beyond that there aren't many others. If the Ivy League would participate it would definitely increase the odds of a private school winning the championship.

Don't forget 2001. :D

[youwouldno]

The playoff conferences (other than PL of course) just don't have many private schools... some have none. So the numbers are wildly uneven to start with. But I like the odds of a private school winning the title in the next 5 years or so.

[DFW HOYA]

I think the point above is well taken--there are only 18 private schools in eligible I-AA/FCS conferences (seven of which are in the PL alone), so it's not a case of "if", but when they've got the better team.

[HiHiYikas]

I think it could happen within the next 10 years, simply because there are so many quality programs out there. Programs like Furman, Wofford, and Colgate could be something like the pre-2005 Appalachian Mountaineers, solid teams, always falling short, one or two ingredients away from setting themselves apart.

I know ASU's recent success was about more than the arrival of players like Richie Williams and Armanti Edwards, but they became the most visible difference-makers on teams that finally won it all. Who's to say an already-strong private program won't land a special kind of playmaker in the near future?

[DetroitFlyer]

Private schools are generally working much harder to balance the "student/athlete" equation. State schools, IMHO, can simply bring in better pure athletes. Private schools are trying to bring in great athletes that are also great students, ( at least most of the time ). So, considering that few private schools are in the mix, and the challenge of balancing the student / athlete thing is a bit more pronounced, it just is not going to happen very often. It is certainly not impossible, but it is going to take a "perfect storm" of circumstances to make it happen. I think once every 10 to 20 years is probably a reasonable expectation! Of course if USD had been invited to the playoffs last season, we might not be having this discussion.... Mind you, I have not done the research, but I'm willing to bet that it might be a bit more difficult for a player to obtain admission to Furman that say Northern Illinois. If I am incorrect, here, please post some data to shed some additional light on the subject.

[already123]

LET START BY NAMING ALL PRIVATE SCHOOLS IN fcs THAT ACTUALLY HAVE A CHANCE....

[OL FU]

LET START BY NAMING ALL PRIVATE SCHOOLS IN fcs THAT ACTUALLY HAVE A CHANCE....

A change within the next four years (There are others but it will take a little longer)

Furman
Wofford
Lehigh
Lafayette
Colgate
Hampton
Richmond

Who did I miss?

[lizrdgizrd]

Private schools are generally working much harder to balance the "student/athlete" equation. State schools, IMHO, can simply bring in better pure athletes. Private schools are trying to bring in great athletes that are also great students, ( at least most of the time ). So, considering that few private schools are in the mix, and the challenge of balancing the student / athlete thing is a bit more pronounced, it just is not going to happen very often. It is certainly not impossible, but it is going to take a "perfect storm" of circumstances to make it happen. I think once every 10 to 20 years is probably a reasonable expectation! Of course if USD had been invited to the playoffs last season, we might not be having this discussion.... Mind you, I have not done the research, but I'm willing to bet that it might be a bit more difficult for a player to obtain admission to Furman that say Northern Illinois. If I am incorrect, here, please post some data to shed some additional light on the subject.
I was with you up to that point! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[OL FU]

Time to explore this never resolved topic. All excuses, er, I mean reasons that we are moving up on the 20th anniversary of a private school winning the NC need to be stated for the unitiated. I know there are some intelligent private schools defenders out there and would love to hear from them. So let's hear it from LFN, 13, and of course the purple people eater crowd!!!!xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

You know considering it has been 19 years since a private won and didn't win 10 years before that I am surprised so many people think it will happen in the next 5 and 10 years.

[already123]

not a bad list....i change my vote now! a private school will win a National Championship just as soon as NAU doesxeyebrowx

[Mountaineer]

not a bad list....i change my vote now! a private school will win a National Championship just as soon as NAU doesxeyebrowx

Actually, I could see a private school win a NC well before NAU. xnodx Taking Furman, for example, they've been consistently better than NAU for years and have come close quite a few times. xthumbsupx

Colgate was close in 2003 and Laffy and Lehigh seem to moving into the realm of nabbing a playoff spot every year now. xnodx

[Eyes of Old Main]

Furman has the best chance basedon where their program is, where its been, experience, etc. Others like Lafayette, Lehigh, Colgate, and Wofford have a chance if things ever fell perfectly for them.

In Wofford's case, it would take a year with zero injuries, a favorable schedule, an additional game-breaker or two, and some luck. But that series of occurances could propel 1/3 of the division to a championship.

[youwouldno]

Private schools are generally working much harder to balance the "student/athlete" equation. State schools, IMHO, can simply bring in better pure athletes. Private schools are trying to bring in great athletes that are also great students, ( at least most of the time ). So, considering that few private schools are in the mix, and the challenge of balancing the student / athlete thing is a bit more pronounced, it just is not going to happen very often. It is certainly not impossible, but it is going to take a "perfect storm" of circumstances to make it happen. I think once every 10 to 20 years is probably a reasonable expectation! Of course if USD had been invited to the playoffs last season, we might not be having this discussion.... Mind you, I have not done the research, but I'm willing to bet that it might be a bit more difficult for a player to obtain admission to Furman that say Northern Illinois. If I am incorrect, here, please post some data to shed some additional light on the subject.

The San Diego bit is laughable. San Diego lost to UC-Davis [question- why do all the USD/non-scholly fanatics pretend like that game never happened?] and App St was much, much better than UC-Davis. Get off it.

So far as admissions, of course admission to Furman is tougher than most public schools. But that cuts both ways. The Paladins have landed a number of players with FBS offers and, while I haven't asked them, I would guess academics was often a huge factor in FU's favor.

[OL FU]

not a bad list....i change my vote now! a private school will win a National Championship just as soon as NAU doesxeyebrowx


Furman will win another one before NAU does:p

[DetroitFlyer]

Oh yeah, one of the highest ranked teams in FCS, from the highest ranked conference in FCS, that hammered a team that was invited to the playoffs.... That did not hammer USD.... That really proves that USD did not belong in the playoffs, talk about a joke!! The point is that we do not know how USD might have fared in the playoffs. Who thought Colgate would make it to the championship a few years back? Thankfully, they got the opportunity to find out, USD did not!

[lizrdgizrd]

Oh yeah, one of the highest ranked teams in FCS, from the highest ranked conference in FCS, that hammered a team that was invited to the playoffs.... That did not hammer USD.... That really proves that USD did not belong in the playoffs, talk about a joke!! The point is that we do not know how USD might have fared in the playoffs. Who thought Colgate would make it to the championship a few years back? Thankfully, they got the opportunity to find out, USD did not!

xdeadhorsex

[GannonFan]

Oh yeah, one of the highest ranked teams in FCS, from the highest ranked conference in FCS, that hammered a team that was invited to the playoffs.... That did not hammer USD.... That really proves that USD did not belong in the playoffs, talk about a joke!! The point is that we do not know how USD might have fared in the playoffs. Who thought Colgate would make it to the championship a few years back? Thankfully, they got the opportunity to find out, USD did not!

Agreed with the xdeadhorsex - Colgate played a IA team and a ranked I-AA team during the season, played no DII or lower teams, played a 12 game season (calendar that year allowed 12 games) all prior to the selection for the playoffs, and played in a superior conference in terms of depth and quality. USD scheduled themselves out of the playoffs by playing 2 DII or lower teams during the year, played only one team of note in Yale, played only a 10 game schedule prior to playoff selection, and played in a weak conference. The comparison of USD to Colgate is beyond a stretch and just has no basis whatsoever. xnonox

[OhioHen]

That may be true, but they are a LLLOOONNNGGG way from a NC.

With all the talent that comes through Hampton every year, it's just a matter of time before they put it all together and spank the state-supported schools on the field in Chattanooga.

[pksundevil]

I'm sorry- I think it was a UD person that started this thread, and I know this has been rehashed in prior threads, but... I can't believe no one has pointed out that UD itself is not a public institution. It is described on its own webpage as a "privately controlled institution" and "privately-governed" and was founded as a private academy in 1743. Yes, it gets state assistance (not unique among private schools) and is considered to be a quasi-public by some here, but the arguments are at least as strong for calling it private. It isn't required to give Delawareans priority (60% of students are nonresidents), etc, etc.

So- in my mind- it's been a lot less than 20 years since a private school won the title!

[GannonFan]

I'm sorry- I think it was a UD person that started this thread, and I know this has been rehashed in prior threads, but... I can't believe no one has pointed out that UD itself is not a public institution. It is described on its own webpage as a "privately controlled institution" and "privately-governed" and was founded as a private academy in 1743. Yes, it gets state assistance (not unique among private schools) and is considered to be a quasi-public by some here, but the arguments are at least as strong for calling it private. It isn't required to give Delawareans priority (60% of students are nonresidents), etc, etc.

So- in my mind- it's been a lot less than 20 years since a private school won the title!

We are quasi-private. As to whether that counts or not for this thread, well, that's up for debate.

[lizrdgizrd]

We are quasi-private. As to whether that counts or not for this thread, well, that's up for debate.
I'd say you don't count either way! :p

[R.A.]

With all the talent that comes through Hampton every year, it's just a matter of time before they put it all together and spank the state-supported schools on the field in Chattanooga.

xthumbsupx

Mel Kiper Jr's Big Draft Board for 2008


25. Kendall Langford, DE, Hampton, (6-5½, 290)
Intriguing Division I-AA prospect due to his size, athleticism and natural pass-rush ability

And don't forget that Marcus Dixon is on that defensive line also....

Also Hampton has the top HBCU recruiting class this season...