Don't Call Them UST

[Baron Sardonicus]

With a Division I Council vote this week, the NCAA is expected to create a new member of FCS for 2021, the University of St. Thomas (https://www.tommiesports.com/landing/index). Their acronym is STU.

A thumbs up from the council will allow D-III schools to move directly into D-I (invitation from a D-I all-sports conference still required). How soon will we see other D-III schools moving up? Anyone for North Central (https://wgntv.com/sports/north-central-college-wins-first-division-iii-national-championship/)? How about Hardin-Simmons (https://www.chron.com/sports/college-football/article/Hardin-Simmons-made-bowl-season-history-in-48-1617904.php)?

[aceinthehole]

This might help the PL expand. Maybe Johns Hopkins University (JHU) or Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI)?

[aceinthehole]

For the NEC, I would love to see us invite D-III member Catholic University of America (CUA) in Washington, DC over say D-II New Haven.

https://catholicathletics.com/sports/fball/index

[bonarae]

I'm not sure how many D-IIIs are even considering skipping D-II and moving all the way up... xchinscratchx xdontknowx UChicago is firm in staying D-III.

BTW, if you guess UST as the acronym of a Catholic university with a rich tradition of athletic success, you have also guessed where I actually live. xrulesx

[Laker]

With a Division I Council vote this week, the NCAA is expected to create a new member of FCS for 2021, the University of St. Thomas (https://www.tommiesports.com/landing/index). Their acronym is STU.

A thumbs up from the council will allow D-III schools to move directly into D-I (invitation from a D-I all-sports conference still required). How soon will we see other D-III schools moving up? Anyone for North Central (https://wgntv.com/sports/north-central-college-wins-first-division-iii-national-championship/)? How about Hardin-Simmons (https://www.chron.com/sports/college-football/article/Hardin-Simmons-made-bowl-season-history-in-48-1617904.php)?

Maybe they call them that in San Diego but not here in Minnesota- or evidently at UST. This is from their site. So yes, we refer to them at UST. So do they.

https://www.tommiesports.com/information/UST_Athletics_History

A Catholic, liberal arts, comprehensive regional university, UST experienced significant growth from the mid-1970s to the 1990s. During that time, enrollment grew from about 2,500 mostly male undergraduate students to approximately 11,000 undergraduate and graduate women and men.

[Baron Sardonicus]

This might help the PL expand. Maybe Johns Hopkins University (JHU) or Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI)?

The Patriot League's expansion candidates, as previously detailed on this board, are limited. Initially, the rule change is more likely to benefit the Pioneer Football League.

However, some of these Midwestern schools seem to be looking eastward. There are rumors that STU's goal is Big East membership (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/cmpsps/st_thomas_trying_to_jump_to_division_i/). Sorry, Dakotas people.

And while Augustana University is actually in Division II (and likely to stay for the foreseeable future), their president attended Georgetown. I bet she would also like her school to join the Big East.

So basically, a number of schools want to be Georgetown. Except they don't want Georgetown's Patriot League football record.

[Bisonator]

The Patriot League's expansion candidates, as previously detailed on this board, are limited. Initially, the rule change is more likely to benefit the Pioneer Football League.

However, some of these Midwestern schools seem to be looking eastward. There are rumors that STU's goal is Big East membership (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/cmpsps/st_thomas_trying_to_jump_to_division_i/). Sorry, Dakotas people.

And while Augustana University is actually in Division II (and likely to stay for the foreseeable future), their president attended Georgetown. I bet she would also like her school to join the Big East.

So basically, a number of schools want to be Georgetown. Except they don't want Georgetown's Patriot League football record.
The Big East? Maybe in 20 years. NDSU might be in the B12 by then too. xlolx

[TheKingpin28]

The Patriot League's expansion candidates, as previously detailed on this board, are limited. Initially, the rule change is more likely to benefit the Pioneer Football League.

However, some of these Midwestern schools seem to be looking eastward. There are rumors that STU's goal is Big East membership (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/cmpsps/st_thomas_trying_to_jump_to_division_i/). Sorry, Dakotas people.

And while Augustana University is actually in Division II (and likely to stay for the foreseeable future), their president attended Georgetown. I bet she would also like her school to join the Big East.

So basically, a number of schools want to be Georgetown. Except they don't want Georgetown's Patriot League football record.

Wouldn't surprise me if UST lasted a decade in The Summit and moved on from there. It is a stepping stone conference, but having them in The Summit, would do wonders for getting a piece of that Twin Cities market. St Thomas will pull hard from the Star Tribune and do not be surprised if the Dakota schools (not all) schedule H-H with their football teams to try and pump up their brand in that market. This will hurt olympic sports though since the Dakota schools pulled hard on over looked recruits, but now, these kids can stay closer to home which will be a huge advantage to UST but not the I29 corridor.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Maybe they call them that in San Diego but not here in Minnesota- or evidently at UST. This is from their site. So yes, we refer to them at UST. So do they.

https://www.tommiesports.com/information/UST_Athletics_History



I'm not familiar with their historical nicknames. And although they now prefer to be called "St. Thomas," "Tommies," or "Toms"...

...when they use an acronym in reference to today's athletic teams, it's STU.

https://tommiesports.com/sports/wvball/2019-20/boxscores/20190830_s2rx.xml?view=plays

[Anthony215]

For the NEC, I would love to see us invite D-III member Catholic University of America (CUA) in Washington, DC over say D-II New Haven.

https://catholicathletics.com/sports/fball/index

What would be your gripe with New Haven. They're closer in distance to the NEC schools than say John Hopkins. While Hopkins has great football history and tradition would they draw legit D1 athletes offering 43 scholarships as opposed to them right now being able to package financial aid as much as needed for the student athletes???

[Laker]

I'm not familiar with their historical nicknames. And although they now prefer to be called "St. Thomas," "Tommies," or "Toms"...

...when they use an acronym in reference to today's athletic teams, it's STU.

https://tommiesports.com/sports/wvball/2019-20/boxscores/20190830_s2rx.xml?view=plays


This is from the St Thomas blogger Eugene McGivern. He has been there for many years and forgotten more than I know about the school. I worked there many summers at basketball camps, had former student/athletes play there, and been to regular season and playoff games there. Bolded areas are mine.

Mon 6/15/2020 1:19 PM


]You are correct UST and not STU is our shortened name... although about 10 years ago we pushed that in branding as we wanted to be known as a university, now only lately we are moving away from that as a prime logo, like when we installed new turf a couple of years ago we replaced the UST at midfield with our shield logo. I think the whole UST or STU is too confusing to people not from Minnesota so we prefer St. Thomas and of. Purse NOT Saint Thomas, which some media use.
There’s a UST in Houston and an STU in Miami also named St. Thomas.


We were always the College of St. Thomas before we changed name about 1991.


But we cringe when some in media call us STU.

Thanks

Gene

[Baron Sardonicus]

Thanks for posting excerpts from your email. Perhaps he should forward that message to his staff.

And since St. Thomas is going big time, posting branding preferences (https://www.utrgv.edu/umc/creative-services/graphic-identity-guidelines/editorial/index.htm) on his website would help introduce St. Thomas to the world. Like he says, the media does refer to the school as STU. That cringing problem could be solved quickly.

[JayJ79]

if they call themselves the "University of St. Thomas", then they are UST.
If they called themselves "St. Thomas University", then they would be STU.

[NY Crusader 2010]

For the NEC, I would love to see us invite D-III member Catholic University of America (CUA) in Washington, DC over say D-II New Haven.

https://catholicathletics.com/sports/fball/index

Catholic actually played Division I Basketball until the early 1980's and was a charter member of the Colonial Athletic Association. I think basketball was their only Division I sport at the time. As far as football goes, Catholic is a bad team in a bad D-III conference. Long, long, long way to go before they would even be Pioneer League-ready in football. Highly doubt they have any interest in going D-I but you never know.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The Patriot League's expansion candidates, as previously detailed on this board, are limited. Initially, the rule change is more likely to benefit the Pioneer Football League.

However, some of these Midwestern schools seem to be looking eastward. There are rumors that STU's goal is Big East membership (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/cmpsps/st_thomas_trying_to_jump_to_division_i/). Sorry, Dakotas people.

And while Augustana University is actually in Division II (and likely to stay for the foreseeable future), their president attended Georgetown. I bet she would also like her school to join the Big East.

So basically, a number of schools want to be Georgetown. Except they don't want Georgetown's Patriot League football record.

0.0% chance they ever get into the Big East. But MVC membership would be a more likely goal, and they probably get in there before XDSU. It's kind of crazy that there is only ONE Division I school in all of Minnesota.

The Big East has no reason to expand in the foreseeable future and if they do decide to go to 12 teams (currently at 11 with UCONN coming back in), St. Louis or Dayton would be the fairly obvious choices.

[NY Crusader 2010]

This might help the PL expand. Maybe Johns Hopkins University (JHU) or Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI)?

PL is already at ten all-sports members. I'm of the belief that if we're going to expand on the non-football side (for which there is no need right now), we would be better off trying to convince Fordham to give up on the A-10 and join us as opposed to going dumpster diving for RPI, RIT, Gettysburg or whatever high-academic D-III school you want to name.

Obviously, an institution like John Hopkins we would bend over backwards for. But for all anyone knows, they're content with lacrosse being their one D-I sport.

On the football affiliate side, there just really aren't any matches right now - maybe Dayton or Duquesne if either side really wanted it.

[Bill]

Who knows about Hopkins?
Pandemic concerns aside, any move to DI would require some serious spending on their facilities. However, I do believe I read that Bloomberg's recent gift made it so they now follow the H/Y/P financial aid model...which could allow them to become very competitive in any sport they choose rather quickly - IF they wanted to go that route!

[favorite football fan]

if they call themselves the "University of St. Thomas", then they are UST.
If they called themselves "St. Thomas University", then they would be STU.

Interesting. The University of Kansas is referred to as KU not UK. Duke University is referred to as Duke not DU. Georgia Tech is really the Georgia Institute of Technology but their helmets say GT not GIT. Notre Dame is really the University of Notre Dame and have nothing on their helmets but are referred to as Notre Dame but their logo is ND. The University of Spoiled Children (USC) goes by both USC and SC. Army is really the United States Military Academy but they do not market themselves as USMA but Army. Thus, it appears that this school has decided how they want to market themselves.

[bonarae]

The University of Spoiled Children (USC) goes by both USC and SC. Army is really the United States Military Academy but they do not market themselves as USMA but Army. Thus, it appears that this school has decided how they want to market themselves.

Correct. But what USC are you referring to in the bolded statement? Trojan Horses? Or the Columbia Gamecocks?

Meanwhile, I do not fully comprehend why UChicago and Chicago in college athletics is the same. The University of Chicago prefers the former name for their all-purpose branding but some media outlets (especially outside of Chicagoland) refer to the latter.

[jajfitz]

Interesting. The University of Kansas is referred to as KU not UK. Duke University is referred to as Duke not DU. Georgia Tech is really the Georgia Institute of Technology but their helmets say GT not GIT. Notre Dame is really the University of Notre Dame and have nothing on their helmets but are referred to as Notre Dame but their logo is ND. The University of Spoiled Children (USC) goes by both USC and SC. Army is really the United States Military Academy but they do not market themselves as USMA but Army. Thus, it appears that this school has decided how they want to market themselves.


Doesn't te USMA now referto themselves as Army-West Point?

[NY Crusader 2010]

Doesn't te USMA now referto themselves as Army-West Point?

The athletic department is now marketing the sports teams as representing "Army-West Point" instead of just "Army". Not a fan.

[OhioHen]

I'm not sure how many D-IIIs are even considering skipping D-II and moving all the way up... xchinscratchx xdontknowx UChicago is firm in staying D-III.

BTW, if you guess UST as the acronym of a Catholic university with a rich tradition of athletic success, you have also guessed where I actually live. xrulesx

The Pontifical and Royal University of Santo Tomas?

[OhioHen]

if they call themselves the "University of St. Thomas", then they are UST.
If they called themselves "St. Thomas University", then they would be STU.

The University of Kansas is known as KU.
The University of Oklahoma is known as OU.

I'm sure there are other examples.

[grayghost06]

For the NEC, I would love to see us invite D-III member Catholic University of America (CUA) in Washington, DC over say D-II New Haven.

https://catholicathletics.com/sports/fball/index

Catholic U: 1936 Orange Bowl champs (beat Ole Miss) and 1940 Sun Bowl participent (tied Arizona State). They even used to have a 30k on campus stadium back in the day.

[SDFS]

0.0% chance they ever get into the Big East. But MVC membership would be a more likely goal, and they probably get in there before XDSU. It's kind of crazy that there is only ONE Division I school in all of Minnesota.

The Big East has no reason to expand in the foreseeable future and if they do decide to go to 12 teams (currently at 11 with UCONN coming back in), St. Louis or Dayton would be the fairly obvious choices.

Actually, the Twin Cities is a fairly hot market for basketball recruits plus the 16 largest metro in the US. I can see then in the Big East at some point.

[favorite football fan]

The University of Kansas is known as KU.
The University of Oklahoma is known as OU. I'm sure there are other examples.

Ah yes, OU, totally forgot about them. I recall an old story during the early 1970's of a small NAIA school in Wichita, Kansas known as Friends University. Some one there decided to refer to it as Friends University-Central Kansas and on their basketball court, until the joke went around, at midcourt they had in the circle Friends University Central Kansas then was quickly removed but long enough to become an urban legend. Besides the obvious, the problem was that Wichita is not considered central in Kansas.

[cx500d]

The University of Kansas is known as KU.
The University of Oklahoma is known as OU.

I'm sure there are other examples.
CU?

[DFW HOYA]

The University of Kansas is known as KU.
The University of Oklahoma is known as OU.

I'm sure there are other examples.

The Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University: VT
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey: RU
The Georgia Institute of Technology: GT

[JayJ79]

The Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University: VT
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey: RU
The Georgia Institute of Technology: GT
none of those are changing the order of the letters of their acronym

[OhioHen]

CU?

University of Colorado - another fine example from the old Big 8. Reminds me of another - University of Missour = MU.

Oh, for the days when conference names meant something. But I digress.

[OhioHen]

Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey: RU


RU was the acronym when it was simply known as Rutgers University. The addition of "The State...of New Jersey" is a recent occurrence.

I think it had something to do with their inferiority complex that Rutgers was (and still is) the safety school for NJ residents that don't get into Delaware or Penn State.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Result of the St. Thomas (rule change) vote will reportedly be announced this evening.

Might see it first @tommieathletics.

[Yote 53]

In order for UST to get an invite to the Big East or the Valley they are going to have to perform in the Summit and come to dominate it in order to prove themselves and earn an invite into one of those conferences. Does anybody see the Dakota schools just ceding the Summit to UST? I don't. Transitioning from D2 to D1 is hard. Transitioing from D3 to D1 is harder. The Dakota schools have a big head start and improve in facilities and quality of programs every year. We're happy to bring UST in but we'll keep them in their place at the bottom half of the conference for at least a decade. The Big East and Valley are not going to invite a bottom half Summit school. By the time UST rises to the top of the Summit (if that happens) who is to say the Summit isn't on the same footing as the Valley? A lot of change happens in college sports over a decade.

[TheKingpin28]

In order for UST to get an invite to the Big East or the Valley they are going to have to perform in the Summit and come to dominate it in order to prove themselves and earn an invite into one of those conferences. Does anybody see the Dakota schools just ceding the Summit to UST? I don't. Transitioning from D2 to D1 is hard. Transitioing from D3 to D1 is harder. The Dakota schools have a big head start and improve in facilities and quality of programs every year. We're happy to bring UST in but we'll keep them in their place at the bottom half of the conference for at least a decade. The Big East and Valley are not going to invite a bottom half Summit school. By the time UST rises to the top of the Summit (if that happens) who is to say the Summit isn't on the same footing as the Valley? A lot of change happens in college sports over a decade.

They will be competitive in baseball and basketball real quick. They have the money to do it and athletes will be given the chance to play in their backyard VS traveling 3.5-4.5 hours to the other nearest D1 schools. I do not expect them to be as competitive in football unless they go schollie there and move to the MVFC. I expect them to compete for Pioneer titles within 3-4 years though. Do not under estimate their endowment and how rich their alumni are. They will throw dollars to win titles and their alumni can afford it.

[Yote 53]

They will be competitive in baseball and basketball real quick. They have the money to do it and athletes will be given the chance to play in their backyard VS traveling 3.5-4.5 hours to the other nearest D1 schools. I do not expect them to be as competitive in football unless they go schollie there and move to the MVFC. I expect them to compete for Pioneer titles within 3-4 years though. Do not under estimate their endowment and how rich their alumni are. They will throw dollars to win titles and their alumni can afford it.
All that takes time. UST does not have the facilities currently. Facilities matter in recruiting. Recruits go to the best program they can when other factors check the boxes (major, school size, etc.).

You underestimate what a head start in D1 does for a program in this region. As a USD fan we saw first hand what a head start did for NDSU and SDSU and how it was a big hill to overcome. UST is going to have to deal with 4 schools with a big head start in everything including facilities , in-conference, right in their backyard.

UST has a lot of positives in their favor, they also have a lot to overcome and I don't think the Summit schools are going to give them an inch of momentum.

[cx500d]

All that takes time. UST does not have the facilities currently. Facilities matter in recruiting. Recruits go to the best program they can when other factors check the boxes (major, school size, etc.).

You underestimate what a head start in D1 does for a program in this region. As a USD fan we saw first hand what a head start did for NDSU and SDSU and how it was a big hill to overcome. UST is going to have to deal with 4 schools with a big head start in everything including facilities , in-conference, right in their backyard.

UST has a lot of positives in their favor, they also have a lot to overcome and I don't think the Summit schools are going to give them an inch of momentum.

One thing Saint Thomas doesn't have to overcome: Vermillion, and Brookings... That is worth a lot to recruits coming from urban areas.

[uni88]

With a Division I Council vote this week, the NCAA is expected to create a new member of FCS for 2021, the University of St. Thomas (https://www.tommiesports.com/landing/index). Their acronym is STU.

A thumbs up from the council will allow D-III schools to move directly into D-I (invitation from a D-I all-sports conference still required). How soon will we see other D-III schools moving up? Anyone for North Central (https://wgntv.com/sports/north-central-college-wins-first-division-iii-national-championship/)? How about Hardin-Simmons (https://www.chron.com/sports/college-football/article/Hardin-Simmons-made-bowl-season-history-in-48-1617904.php)?

And their new mascot ...

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_small/11133/111336082/7212907-stu_pickles-fount.png

[TheKingpin28]

All that takes time. UST does not have the facilities currently. Facilities matter in recruiting. Recruits go to the best program they can when other factors check the boxes (major, school size, etc.).

You underestimate what a head start in D1 does for a program in this region. As a USD fan we saw first hand what a head start did for NDSU and SDSU and how it was a big hill to overcome. UST is going to have to deal with 4 schools with a big head start in everything including facilities , in-conference, right in their backyard.

UST has a lot of positives in their favor, they also have a lot to overcome and I don't think the Summit schools are going to give them an inch of momentum.

St Thomas, academically, wipes the floor against all schools not name Denver in the conference. I can promise you this, if I was playing an Olympic sport and had the opportunity to stay close to home and play in the Twin Cities while going to a top 100/150 university in the nation, you bet that will factor into it. St Thomas can throw money at a problem and it is fixed overnight with how their alumni can bankroll athletics. They will be at least middle of the pack by the time their D1 probation era ends. This is how I see it breaking out for sports.

Football: NDSU then SDSU
Basketball (M): NDSU/SDSU depending on who you think has the better school
Basketball (W): USeD then SDSU
Baseball: Oral Roberts
Softball: NDSU
Track & Field (I/O): NDSU
Hockey: GFCC/Denver
Volleyball: Denver/USeD

St Thomas will get their share of basketball recruits hurting the Dakotas. I would not be surprised if they made a run for a title within 4 years. They will go FCOA since their alumni can afford it and to be able to hold that above St Johns and rub it in the face of Minnesota, you can be they will be fully behind that.

[Professor]

Looks like NDSU , SDSU and ND have some company.

[TheKingpin28]

St Thomas, academically, wipes the floor against all schools not name Denver in the conference. I can promise you this, if I was playing an Olympic sport and had the opportunity to stay close to home and play in the Twin Cities while going to a top 100/150 university in the nation, you bet that will factor into it. St Thomas can throw money at a problem and it is fixed overnight with how their alumni can bankroll athletics. They will be at least middle of the pack by the time their D1 probation era ends. This is how I see it breaking out for sports.

Football: NDSU then SDSU
Basketball (M): NDSU/SDSU depending on who you think has the better school
Basketball (W): USeD then SDSU
Baseball: Oral Roberts
Softball: NDSU
Track & Field (I/O): NDSU
Hockey: GFCC/Denver
Volleyball: Denver/USeD

St Thomas will get their share of basketball recruits hurting the Dakotas. I would not be surprised if they made a run for a title within 4 years. They will go FCOA since their alumni can afford it and to be able to hold that above St Johns and rub it in the face of Minnesota, you can be they will be fully behind that.

The only reason Denver is not Mountain West, is that they have their niche sports and the Mountain West expects football to be at the top as well as basketball and Denver has given a big old piss off to that notion. The Summit needs stability and that is why we allow them to stay. Denver, academically speaking, has nothing in common with the rest of the league. If Denver wanted to be competitive in football and basketball, they could, they just choose not to, which for the life of me, I do not understanding considering where they are in Colorado. The major difference is, St. Thomas is not apathetic towards Olympic sports. Both schools can dominate the Olympic sports scene, it's just that 1 school does not care enough about the big olympic sports and the other is trying to be a focal point in the Twin Cities, but needs NCAA approval for that.

[TheKingpin28]

Looks like NDSU , SDSU and ND have some company.

If they join the Summit, that will increase the media footprint of all teams, but hurt their recruits as well. It's a win-loss relationship, but I'd rather have them (so I can see NDSU games in person more often) than Augie any day of the week.

[DFW HOYA]

none of those are changing the order of the letters of their acronym

Rutgers' full name was a compromise when a former governor sought to rename it the University of New Jersey.

Virginia Tech was officially Virginia Polytechnic Institute, or VPI. Efforts to rename it Virginia State were rebuffed and replaced by VPISU. It is not Virginia Tech University.

[JayJ79]

University of Colorado - another fine example from the old Big 8. Reminds me of another - University of Missour = MU.

Oh, for the days when conference names meant something. But I digress.
the Big 8, originally known as the Missouri Valley Intercollegiate Athletic Association, which then split into the Big Six and the Missouri Valley Conference, then the Big Six became unofficially known as the Big Seven, and eventually grew to the Big Eight. Then due to the business of TV contracts, the Big Eight added the 4 Texas Schools from the Southwest Conference to form the Big 12

[JayJ79]

Virginia Tech was officially Virginia Polytechnic Institute, or VPI. Efforts to rename it Virginia State were rebuffed and replaced by VPISU. It is not Virginia Tech University.

Virginia Polytechnic Institute = Virginia Tech = VT
makes sense to me

[Laker]

NCAA looks favorably at UST moving up. Vote is in April.

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-i-council-proposes-pathway-diii-schools-become-di-members

[cx500d]

NCAA looks favorably at UST moving up. Vote is in April.

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-i-council-proposes-pathway-diii-schools-become-di-members


I thought they were going to vote with a decision. This is more like a continuance.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Although there may be no problem for the Summit League, this presents a timing issue for the Pioneer Football League. Unless St. Thomas gets a waiver approved quickly, the PFL might not be able to accommodate them for '21. The PFL needs time to shuffle schedules. Is the league adding one member in 2021 (Presbyterian) or two?

[nodak651]

If they join the Summit, that will increase the media footprint of all teams, but hurt their recruits as well. It's a win-loss relationship, but I'd rather have them (so I can see NDSU games in person more often) than Augie any day of the week.
Completely agree. UST obviously increases recruiting competition, but I think it will help in recruiting vs mvc, mac, and horizon teams that often recruit the cities as well. Dakota recruits will actually finally have conference games back home in the cities, and the increased media presence will help as well.

[Hammersmith]

The University of Kansas is known as KU.
The University of Oklahoma is known as OU.

I'm sure there are other examples.

It's a western thing. Actually a Great Plains and Rocky Mountain thing. Probably started as a way for the younger major state universities to differentiate their abbreviations from the more established eastern schools, then it morphed into a shared cultural thing.

[Hammersmith]

I thought they were going to vote with a decision. This is more like a continuance.

No, this is what was always planned. The group that met this week is the big picture group. The decision was to either not allow DIII move-ups at all, decide them on a case-by-case basis with waivers, or add legislation to the bylaws to create a formal process. The group recommended that last option, so the legislation needs to be written up and voted on by the total DI membership at the big annual meeting.

But they don't want UST to have to wait that long, so they're going to allow them to use the waiver process this one time. That waiver will be decided by a more nuts-and-bolts NCAA department than the big picture group that just met. But the big picture group basically just said that the waiver is a sure-thing; just submit some paperwork so it can be rubber stamped. I'd guess UST will be told to use the existing four-year DII-DI program rather than the five-year program they plan to vote on for other DIII-DI move-ups.

[OhioHen]

Rutgers' full name was a compromise when a former governor sought to rename it the University of New Jersey.

Virginia Tech was officially Virginia Polytechnic Institute, or VPI. Efforts to rename it Virginia State were rebuffed and replaced by VPISU. It is not Virginia Tech University.

There's was already a Virginia State University in Richmond, founded in 1882. How would they have changed VPI to VSU?

[TheKingpin28]

IIRC, I though if 6 teams sponsor a sport, they had to sponsor that sport in the league. I thought happened with B1G hockey and lead to the demise of the WCHA. If that's the case, wouldn't the Summit be forced to sponsor football? That would suck for the Valley, though I could see an invite to all MVC schools and YSU being shafted.

Unless non schollie is the way around creating SL football

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

There's was already a Virginia State University in Richmond, founded in 1882. How would they have changed VPI to VSU?

They were still known as Virginia State College when VPI was considering the name change.

While older alumni prefer VPI, that name has faded from view since the 1970's, much like its nickname at the time:

https://www.sportspaper.info/ncaaf/seasons/1977/images/ncaaf-program_1977-11-05_fsu-vt.jpg

[NY Crusader 2010]

Actually, the Twin Cities is a fairly hot market for basketball recruits plus the 16 largest metro in the US. I can see then in the Big East at some point.

If at some point you mean 30 years down the road if everything goes as planned at UST and then some, sure it's fathomable. Right now the Big East is a basketball-based league with 11 members. There is very little need for the Big East to expand to 12 members or beyond. And there's really no reason for anyone currently in the league to leave. Not to mention, if they do expand, there are a number of well-established DI programs ahead of them in line.

Here's a list of current DI schools that would have a puncher's chance right now of getting invited to the Big East if it decided to expand:

1) St. Louis
2) Dayton
3) Davidson
4) Richmond
5) Duquesne
6) Notre Dame (they would be welcome back if they ever decided to renege on their ACC deal)

At the end of the day, the Big East is to an extent now an "old boys club" of long-time Catholic basketball powers + UCONN. Butler is the one underdog success story of the mid-major turned power conference team but let's remember it took them back-to-back national title games (and a brief stop-over in the A-10) to get there. Not to mention a lengthy history of success at the Division I level.

One factor that goes in UST's favor -- they would be second fiddle to only Minnesota in the Minneapolis-St. Paul market, not to mention the entire state. This is what makes their upside much higher than, say, Detroit Mercy. So there is definitely growth potential. I expect to see them in the Missouri Valley and flourishing in 10-15 years.

[dgtw]

IIRC, I though if 6 teams sponsor a sport, they had to sponsor that sport in the league. I thought happened with B1G hockey and lead to the demise of the WCHA. If that's the case, wouldn't the Summit be forced to sponsor football? That would suck for the Valley, though I could see an invite to all MVC schools and YSU being shafted.

Unless non schollie is the way around creating SL football

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There are six Ivy League schools that sponsor hockey but are in the ECAC. The Ivy does sponsor a league championship based on games played within the league.


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[DFW HOYA]

Here's a list of current DI schools that would have a puncher's chance right now of getting invited to the Big East if it decided to expand:


The Big East is not expanding for any other reason than when it works for their media partner, Fox Sports. While ND would likely be welcome, (far more than those reprobates at Boston College), the others you list bring no significant media power. SLU does not own a fragmented St. Louis market. Dayton is the #63 media market, just above Little Rock. Richmond sits at #54 and isn't even the top draw there (probably VCU). Same for Davidson. Duquesne is about is impactful in the Pittsburgh market as St. Joe's in Philadelphia.

Anything above 10 starts to strain the physical dimensions of a conference. The Big Ten worked perfectly at 10, less so now. UConn was such an unusual situation that the BE wasn't turning it down.

As for Holy Cross, they would be a credible candidate for the A-16....er, A-10 with some protracted run of basketball success. It would have regional competition (UMass, URI), three Jesuit schools (Fordham, St. Joe, St. Louis), and a regional spotlight, something altogether absent in its current home.

[Hammersmith]

IIRC, I though if 6 teams sponsor a sport, they had to sponsor that sport in the league. I thought happened with B1G hockey and lead to the demise of the WCHA. If that's the case, wouldn't the Summit be forced to sponsor football? That would suck for the Valley, though I could see an invite to all MVC schools and YSU being shafted.

Unless non schollie is the way around creating SL football

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It happened with Big Ten hockey because the Big Ten had a bylaw in their conference charter that triggered if six schools sponsored a sport. But that was specific to the Big Ten and does not affect any other conference.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The Big East is not expanding for any other reason than when it works for their media partner, Fox Sports. While ND would likely be welcome, (far more than those reprobates at Boston College), the others you list bring no significant media power. SLU does not own a fragmented St. Louis market. Dayton is the #63 media market, just above Little Rock. Richmond sits at #54 and isn't even the top draw there (probably VCU). Same for Davidson. Duquesne is about is impactful in the Pittsburgh market as St. Joe's in Philadelphia.

Anything above 10 starts to strain the physical dimensions of a conference. The Big Ten worked perfectly at 10, less so now. UConn was such an unusual situation that the BE wasn't turning it down.

As for Holy Cross, they would be a credible candidate for the A-16....er, A-10 with some protracted run of basketball success. It would have regional competition (UMass, URI), three Jesuit schools (Fordham, St. Joe, St. Louis), and a regional spotlight, something altogether absent in its current home.

Good points as always DFW. Why do you call the St. Louis marketed "fragmented"? While I think it's overall a very overrated sports town (case in point: losing two NFL franchises in 25 years), the Blues and Cardinals are basically the only games in town. If the Big East were to add a 12th team (you accurately point out why there is zero need to do so), I would think that St. Louis would be the slam-dunk option.

Talk to me about Holy Cross and the A-10 when we've put together at least 5 straight winning seasons and get back to averaging 3,000+ in the seats at the Hart Center. Basketball is such a dumpster fire at our school right now that we've actually turned into a "hockey school" without upgrading or actually getting any better at hockey.

[AmsterBison]

UST could go by USTA since they are named after Thomas Aquinas.

I'm sure UTSA wouldn't mind.

[TheKingpin28]

It happened with Big Ten hockey because the Big Ten had a bylaw in their conference charter that triggered if six schools sponsored a sport. But that was specific to the Big Ten and does not affect any other conference.

Ah, that's where I remember that. I was unaware that it was just in their conference charter and not NCAA mandated.

[Yote 53]

Many might be overestimating how many Twin Cities and Minnesota residents will be flocking to the Tommie bandwagon. Just thinking about Minnesota High School hockey, most fans root against the "hated" private schools, one of them being St. Thomas Academy. Add in that any fans of the MIAC schools are not changing their allegiances to UST just because they are D1 now, nor will any of the fans of the NSIC schools. Lots of people in Minnesota but I'm not sure about them jumping on the "rich kid" school bandwagon.

Now, if UMD or Minnesota State made the move to D1 I could see a groundwell of support, especially for UMD as they are the school of the North.

I guess we'll see but I think UST will be a fine Summit addition, just think people are getting wayyyy ahead of themselves when talking about the Valley or the Big East.

[Sader87]

Officially Holy Cross is actually "College of the Holy Cross"....most oldahh alums prefer Holy Cross College.

We also coulda been in the Big East xdrunkyx

[cx500d]

Officially Holy Cross is actually "College of the Holy Cross"....most oldahh alums prefer Holy Cross College.

We also coulda been in the Big East xdrunkyx
You couldah been a contendah

[SDFS]

Many might be overestimating how many Twin Cities and Minnesota residents will be flocking to the Tommie bandwagon. Just thinking about Minnesota High School hockey, most fans root against the "hated" private schools, one of them being St. Thomas Academy. Add in that any fans of the MIAC schools are not changing their allegiances to UST just because they are D1 now, nor will any of the fans of the NSIC schools. Lots of people in Minnesota but I'm not sure about them jumping on the "rich kid" school bandwagon.

Now, if UMD or Minnesota State made the move to D1 I could see a groundwell of support, especially for UMD as they are the school of the North.

I guess we'll see but I think UST will be a fine Summit addition, just think people are getting wayyyy ahead of themselves when talking about the Valley or the Big East.

The only reason that I have mentioned the Big East is that news reports this winter and spring talked about UST meeting with Big East officials on multiple occasions. If it is UST's goal to the reach the Big East. They have the resources, local facilities, market size, corporate connections and recruiting base to make that happen. There is a reason that the Summit League ran to UST to partner with them. As far as fans in the stands - they have a nice enrollment for a student section and they have a nice size alumni base in the local area, plus half the Summit League schools have a large alumni base in the Cities. So, the road schools should pull in decent numbers. I think they will do just fine no matter what direction UST chooses to go. And yes, they have some serious work ahead for themselves, but if Vermillion, Brookings, Fargo and Grand Forks can make the transition to DI that they have in 15 years - UST can do that and more.

To be honest, I was surprised to hear that UST could be pushing basketball. I thought that they would be pushing football because I view UST as a football school. And I am not sure coach Caruso seems like the type of guys who wants to sit tight and play non scholarship football at the D-I level. I think he wants to shot at full FCS. But, UST is going to have to make a choice between basketball, football or hockey which program has the most upside for them. It sounds like it could be basketball, but we will have to wait and see.

[ST_Lawson]

To be honest, I was surprised to hear that UST could be pushing basketball. I thought that they would be pushing football because I view UST as a football school. And I am not sure coach Caruso seems like the type of guys who wants to sit tight and play non scholarship football at the D-I level. I think he wants to shot at full FCS. But, UST is going to have to make a choice between basketball, football or hockey which program has the most upside for them. It sounds like it could be basketball, but we will have to wait and see.

For me, I think BBall or Hockey would be the better sports to focus on. I realize they've had a really good football team for quite a while, but when you're looking at what they could accomplish in DI:
They're never going to rival 'Bama or Ohio State in football, although they could have maybe Towson/Colgate/Villanova potential...often successful at the FCS level, eventually.
But the potential is absolutely there for them to become the next Villanova, Gonzaga, or Butler in basketball.
I don't know as much about college hockey, but small schools like Denver, Boston College, Providence, or even (mostly DIII) Colorado College have all had success at it.

Smallish private schools in larger cities seem to have a lot of potential in BBall and Hockey. Think about the difference in visibility and overall "impact" between a small school making the NCAA Final Four and a school making the FCS championship game? You have to get to NDSU-levels of domination in the FCS to come anywhere close to the visibility you get from one or two Final Four appearances.

[SDFS]

For me, I think BBall or Hockey would be the better sports to focus on. I realize they've had a really good football team for quite a while, but when you're looking at what they could accomplish in DI:
They're never going to rival 'Bama or Ohio State in football, although they could have maybe Towson/Colgate/Villanova potential...often successful at the FCS level, eventually.
But the potential is absolutely there for them to become the next Villanova, Gonzaga, or Butler in basketball.
I don't know as much about college hockey, but small schools like Denver, Boston College, Providence, or even (mostly DIII) Colorado College have all had success at it.

Smallish private schools in larger cities seem to have a lot of potential in BBall and Hockey. Think about the difference in visibility and overall "impact" between a small school making the NCAA Final Four and a school making the FCS championship game? You have to get to NDSU-levels of domination in the FCS to come anywhere close to the visibility you get from one or two Final Four appearances.

I can see UST making a fairly quick jump up in hockey given the large number of talent players in the area and transfers. It all depends on the coaching staff hire and there are a lot of great coaching options in the region. But, they only have two conferences to consider:

NCHC (8):
a) Summit League: DU, Omaha, UND
b) Old CCHA: Miami, Western Michigan
c) Old WCHA: CC, UMD, SCSU

CCHA (7):
a) Old CCHA: Bowling Green, Ferris St., Lake Superior, Michigan Tech, N. Michigan
b) Old WCHA: Minn St., Bemidji St.

Ind: UST, ASU and UAB

a) Does the new CCHA make a play for UST. Several articles saying they are very interested in UST?
b) Does the NCHC make a play for UST?
c) Does the current state of budgets have the conferences looking to minimize costs and have CCHA and NCHC swap Miami/W. Mich with Mankato/Bemidji? I think that call rests with Miami and W. Mich. Do they want to leave the NCHC.

[Laker]

I can see UST making a fairly quick jump up in hockey given the large number of talent players in the area and transfers. It all depends on the coaching staff hire and there are a lot of great coaching options in the region. But, they only have two conferences to consider:

NCHC (8):
a) Summit League: DU, Omaha, UND
b) Old CCHA: Miami, Western Michigan
c) Old WCHA: CC, UMD, SCSU

CCHA (7):
a) Old CCHA: Bowling Green, Ferris St., Lake Superior, Michigan Tech, N. Michigan
b) Old WCHA: Minn St., Bemidji St.

Ind: UST, ASU and UAB

a) Does the new CCHA make a play for UST. Several articles saying they are very interested in UST?
b) Does the NCHC make a play for UST?
c) Does the current state of budgets have the conferences looking to minimize costs and have CCHA and NCHC swap Miami/W. Mich with Mankato/Bemidji? I think that call rests with Miami and W. Mich. Do they want to leave the NCHC.

The new CCHA commissioner Don Lucia talked about how St Thomas would be a perfect fit. I don't see the NCHC grabbing a move up program but who knows. If ASU could get their arena thing worked out I could see them as the prize.

I'm intrigued by C. It would make the most sense geography wise. Some of the biggest crowds at Mankato would be when UND came to town. But since when do they follow common sense?

[SDFS]

The new CCHA commissioner Don Lucia talked about how St Thomas would be a perfect fit. I don't see the NCHC grabbing a move up program but who knows. If ASU could get their arena thing worked out I could see them as the prize.

I'm intrigued by C. It would make the most sense geography wise. Some of the biggest crowds at Mankato would be when UND came to town. But since when do they follow common sense?

To be honest, I was not sure the Mankota would want to move over to NCHC. They have done very well in the WCHA or CCHA now. In fact, I think the Miami and W. Michigan may want to get out of the NCHC because they have not been able to break through to the top half of the conference consistently. Well, I should be more clear Miami has struggled lately. W. Michigan has been more competitive lately.

[Laker]

To be honest, I was not sure the Mankota would want to move over to NCHC. They have done very well in the WCHA or CCHA now. In fact, I think the Miami and W. Michigan may want to get out of the NCHC because they have not been able to break through to the top half of the conference consistently. Well, I should be more clear Miami has struggled lately. W. Michigan has been more competitive lately.

I think most Mav hockey fans would be in favor of it. They weren't happy when SCSU said that they would stay in the WCHA and then suddenly bolted. But they would like to get back to playing UMD, SCSU and UND in conference games, especially now that the Gophers are in the big. At least that is what my Mav friends tell me.