UNC Bears Sleeping Giant?

[WMTribe90]

I think UNC could become a dominat I-AA program. They were a very solid DII program and are now moving from the Great West to Big Sky conference. However, the main reason I think UNC will become a perennial force is geography and demographics.

UNC is the only I-AA program in Colorado. UNC is located in Greeley along what is known as the Front Range (eastern edge of the Rockies). The Front Range includes Metro Denver, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Boulder and dozens of medium-sized towns. The Front Range, while not FL or TX, certainly has its fair share of football talent and several other quality programs are scattered throughout the state. The Front Range also continues to experience rapid population growth.

UNC will also draw from Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico and Wyoming (Cheyenne is pretty close). None of these states have I-AA programs to my knowledge. At present, I think Colorado exports alot of football talent (after CSU and CU take the cream of the crop) that would otherwise stay in-state if there were a viable scholarship I-AA program. I think UNC with BSC membership will fill that void and reap the benefits. It'll take a couple years, but I don't think it will be long before UNC is an annual BCS title and playoff contender.

[89Hen]

an annual BCS title and playoff contender.
That would be refreshing change. :p ;)

[kats89]

That would be refreshing change. :p ;)

I am looking forward to that trip to Greely in November when the Kats travel up there to play a late season out of conference game.


http://www.gobearkats.com/football/pics/front_big_mikulec.jpg

[Marcus Mikulec, Future Buchanan Nominee!!!!

[txstatebobcat]

I wonder if the move to D-I has increased UNC's visibility within Colorado.

IMO, UC-Davis should be in the same category. I believe they are only the third scholarship I-AA school in California. Granted that California has six I-A schools, but there is a lot of cream over there. UC-D should get its share of recruits.
Besides four of those programs are big time BCS schools who will go after only elite level athletes. That leaves five schools(two non-bcs and three scholarship I-AAs) to go over what should be a deep talent pool in California.

Of Course this logic doesn't explain why Sacramento State struggles so much.

[WMTribe90]

I wonder if the move to D-I has increased UNC's visibility within Colorado.

IMO, UC-Davis should be in the same category. I believe they are only the third scholarship I-AA school in California. Granted that California has six I-A schools, but there is a lot of cream over there. UC-D should get its share of recruits.
Besides four of those programs are big time BCS schools who will go after only elite level athletes. That leaves five schools(two non-bcs and three scholarship I-AAs) to go over what should be a deep talent pool in California.

Of Course this logic doesn't explain why Sacramento State struggles so much.

Agreed. California is another state that exports a great deal of I-AA level football talent. If UC-Davis can keep some of that in-state they'll be in business. I know Villanova from the A-10 typically has aound 10 or so players from CA on the roster and every BSC memeber recruits CA.

[grizbeer]

Besides four of those programs are big time BCS schools who will go after only elite level athletes. That leaves five schools(two non-bcs and three scholarship I-AAs) to go over what should be a deep talent pool in California.

Of Course this logic doesn't explain why Sacramento State struggles so much.Or why former BSC member Cal State Northridge dropped football.

Here in the Big Sky we have seen this successful D-II in large metro area moves into conference movie before - CSN, Sac State, Portland State. Maybe UNC will be different.

Success has more to do with the University, alumni and community support (read donors and fan base). In general I think it is difficult for schools that tend to have large "commuter student " populations to build the support base necessary to provide adequate funding to be successful in D-I football. If UNC has this type of support they will most likely be successful, but if the alumni and people in Greeley don't know or care who the football team is playing then it will be difficult. Time will tell.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Of Course this logic doesn't explain why Sacramento State struggles so much.

Crappy coaching, same problem as Tx State has had since 1982. I am an alum of both schools so I can bash the ineptitude of the coaches over the last decade.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Or why former BSC member Cal State Northridge dropped football.

Northridge dropped its program because the school sold the land the stadium was located on. Besides, there is a CSU campus every 20 miles in LA, even though Northridge did well in football it couldn't get past the UCLA's of the world for press time.

[swaghook]

Success has more to do with the University, alumni and community support (read donors and fan base).


Good thing NDSU has this part of the equation.

[kmax]

Good thing NDSU has this part of the equation.
Exactly, which is why I wish the BSC didn't have Sac St. and Portland state saying no to bringing you guys and SDSU into the confernce.

[TxSt02]

Crappy coaching, same problem as Tx State has had since 1982. I am an alum of both schools so I can bash the ineptitude of the coaches over the last decade.

True very true but don't forget that we had Dennis Franchione for a couple years in the 90's...

[ncbears]

I think UNC could become a dominat I-AA program. They were a very solid DII program and are now moving from the Great West to Big Sky conference. However, the main reason I think UNC will become a perennial force is geography and demographics.

UNC is the only I-AA program in Colorado. UNC is located in Greeley along what is known as the Front Range (eastern edge of the Rockies). The Front Range includes Metro Denver, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Boulder and dozens of medium-sized towns. The Front Range, while not FL or TX, certainly has its fair share of football talent and several other quality programs are scattered throughout the state. The Front Range also continues to experience rapid population growth.

UNC will also draw from Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico and Wyoming (Cheyenne is pretty close). None of these states have I-AA programs to my knowledge. At present, I think Colorado exports alot of football talent (after CSU and CU take the cream of the crop) that would otherwise stay in-state if there were a viable scholarship I-AA program. I think UNC with BSC membership will fill that void and reap the benefits. It'll take a couple years, but I don't think it will be long before UNC is an annual BCS title and playoff contender.

Thanks for the complements. I also believe UNC will become a force in 1aa and the BSC. It will take time and fans and supporters must realize this. I think back in April when the students voted to increase student funds to help out with upgrading facilities, it really showed that the university is behind the move and willing to help out. Now the next step is getting that Denver market behind us. We have 44,000 alumni in the denver area and they need to step up and start supporting our programs. We also need the Denver media to help out and I think it will in time. The Front Range is a great place to recruit. Our former coach Joe Glenn always said their are more d1 athletes in the area then their are d1 scholarships. Although we get the "left overs" from CU, CSU and Wyoming, their are plenty left for us.

[lucchesicourt]

There are two huge differences between Sac State and UCD. First and foremost, UCD is not a commuter school. Almost all the students live within a few miles of the campus or a short bike ride in other words, and Sac State does not have a student population which spends almost every minute of every waking hour of everyday on campus. The second difference is money. UCD students voted to raise their quarterly fees in order to move to D1AA and support scholarships. So, it is obvious that the students have a large interest in the success of UCD's sports programs, something Sac State does not possess. Sure, Sac State does have its fans, but there are fewer Sac State fans than Aggie fans.

[txstatebobcat]

Crappy coaching, same problem as Tx State has had since 1982. I am an alum of both schools so I can bash the ineptitude of the coaches over the last decade.

Yep, that pretty much describes TxSt alright.


Question for UNC fans. Has recruiting, in your opinions, improved since the move to D-I? Or is it to early to tell? I know you guys had it rough last year*, but do you think the overall talent is improving.


*UNC's 2004 was a much tougher schedule than 2003. Its also why I think that 2005 is going to be the true test for both UC-Davis and North Dakota State as both their 2004 schedules were pretty easy overall.
Yes, both are good teams, but I'm still doubtful of them deserving all the top 25 accolades that they've gotten.

Aggie and Bison fans, please don't see this as smack.I know you guys had some great wins. Its just that I don't know wether UC-Davis or North Dakota State can play a full I-AA schedule. I guess we will know sometime in late November.

[Green Cookie Monster]

True very true but don't forget that we had Dennis Franchione for a couple years in the 90's...

True, look at him now. Too bad he couldn't punch it through like Wacker did.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Sure, Sac State does have its fans, but there are fewer Sac State fans than Aggie fans.

According to Garp. Yes, davis has more on-campus dorms. Sac State has University village which is walking/biking distance to campus along the beautiful American river. A mix of condo/apartment and private residence. Alot of professors live in that area. It is a protected pocketed, so it has its own campus culture. The bridge is an exact to scale replica of the Golden Gate bridge and it empties into Serna Plaza an outdoor amphitheatre.

Davis, on the other hand walks by steer pastures and manure recycling facilities on a flat as a board butt of a location piece of barren hardpan.Whoppee.

http://www.csus.edu/web/images_library/photos/campus/arial_YosemiteHall.jpg
and
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:_pYA0DubL-cJ:www.us-academics.com/images/featured%2520schools/image_calstate_sacramento.jpg

BTW, alumni grove runs along the river. Not a bad place to spend an afternoon. New apartment style housing will replace the existing dorms. This project will provide 5K on campus beds, plus the 2K residences within walking distance across the river or on the shuttle line, all will be well.

http://www.brookhurstcorp.com/images/riverview1.jpg

As for fans, with the almighty Davis football squad and you can never draw more than an average of 6,500 a year. Where is everybody? With your hallowed jock you should be averaging at least 10K per year.

New logo for Sac State to be unveiled 9/1.

http://www.csus.edu/news/08170sacstatelogo.stm

Can't wait.

Aggie fan, where have you been? Sac State students passed not one, but two student initiatives that raised their fee $110 and $65 per semester respectively to provide funding for the new 8K seat RWEC, stadium redo and health center costing $123M. Do I need to post a link? Besides, in '95 the students once again passed an athletic initiative that guarantees $Ms for athletics.

[D-town]

I would agree that UNC has the opportunity to be very successful in I-AA football. But they have to reach the 63 scholarship levels and I think they need to shore up their coaching. Kay Dalton and the staff are good but not great and I think Coach Dalton age is playing a factor on recruits. I think they could solve this be appointing the successor to coach Dalton if/ when he retires. I am not sure this will happen because the New A.D. Hinrichs I am sure will bring in his own guy which would probably bring in the his own staff.

The other thing is UNC can get the in-state recruits. I was told by the old administration that when UNC was division II they only had money to recruit in-state kids or 36 in-state scholarships. I do not think UNC can compete nationally unless it has the resources to recruit 63 student-athletes both in and out of state scholarships.

[lucchesicourt]

Sorry, Sac State fan, if you thought I was harping on your school and program. I was ONLY talking about the student population in relation to the schools. Forgetting on campus housing, the student population is pretty much entirely within biking distance of campus at UCD. That is 30,000 people, approximately. Sac State has a little smaller population, but not much, and many are parttime students. This is not so with UCD. Also, the funds voted on by the students at UCD was needed to provide scholarships and not build just facilities. Sac State is a pretty campus, as I have been there and attended there. But, the student environment is definitely NOT the same as that at UCD when it comes to football. Your basketball program actually has done better than football. Now, if you want to compare campuses and try to knock the UCD campus down, and that makes you feel better. Go right ahead. Whatever works for you. But, it is obvious you really haven't been to UCD.
The average attendance at UCD home games last year was 7252. The smallest crowd was 6050 against SDSU when school was still out for the summer. While figures, as I was able to get them, shows Sac State averages about 5080 at home. And, if you compare playing facilities at the two schools at this time, Sac has a much much better football facility Tan UCD, until next year when UCD will open its new stadium.

[NoCoDanny]

The other thing is UNC can get the in-state recruits. I was told by the old administration that when UNC was division II they only had money to recruit in-state kids or 36 in-state scholarships. I do not think UNC can compete nationally unless it has the resources to recruit 63 student-athletes both in and out of state scholarships.

One of the two referendums that passed in April was to fund out of state travel for recruiting. Now with the funding to support it, out of state recruiting will only increase. Even prior to now the last few years have seen quite an increase in out of state recruiting. A scan of the roster now shows quite a few out of state players compared to maybe 5 years ago when it was like 95% Colorado.

[arkstfan]

It seems that is hard to establish a well supported college football program in the middle of a metro area.

As to the Big Sky and the California experience, that is a unique market. In I-A, San Jose State and San Diego State both looked like real break-out programs at various times and never quite made it. Fresno has but they are out in a city that is basically the "capital" of a large rural region. Fullerton, Long Beach, and Pacific account for 75% of the I-A programs to drop football the last 25 years or so.

The I-AA problems in California are just part of a large problem there.

[GtFllsGriz]

You have all stated some interesting points that I have nothing to add to. I will just say this...two points...UNC played us very tough when they were DII and we all remember what NDSU did to us so they both have my total respect. I think they will both be tough I-AA opponents. Second point, they were both DII opponents when we last met and I feel very confident that the attitude toward them now by the Griz will be a little bit different in future meetings. No disrespect intended, just reality.

I wish NDSU was in the BSC. They would have brought a quality program to the conference. I think UNC will also in time.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Sorry, Sac State fan, if you thought I was harping on your school and program. I was ONLY talking about the student population in relation to the schools. Forgetting on campus housing, the student population is pretty much entirely within biking distance of campus at UCD. That is 30,000 people, approximately. Sac State has a little smaller population, but not much, and many are parttime students. This is not so with UCD. Also, the funds voted on by the students at UCD was needed to provide scholarships and not build just facilities. Sac State is a pretty campus, as I have been there and attended there. But, the student environment is definitely NOT the same as that at UCD when it comes to football. Your basketball program actually has done better than football. Now, if you want to compare campuses and try to knock the UCD campus down, and that makes you feel better. Go right ahead. Whatever works for you. But, it is obvious you really haven't been to UCD.
The average attendance at UCD home games last year was 7252. The smallest crowd was 6050 against SDSU when school was still out for the summer. While figures, as I was able to get them, shows Sac State averages about 5080 at home. And, if you compare playing facilities at the two schools at this time, Sac has a much much better football facility Tan UCD, until next year when UCD will open its new stadium.

No, I don't really have a desire to bash Davis. Both schools have plus and minus features.

Just a question, if the gameday experience is so grand on campus, still where is everyone? You have a 31K student population and according to you they all live on campus within skipping distance of the stadium. Hell, that is a better situation than what Texas A&M enjoys and they draw 80K a game. I have been to the Davis campus and have stood in the chaos and madness of Causeway when Davis has it in davis. Been to alot of baseball games also, when they are playing Sac of course.

Yes, Sac has had a tumble in attendance the last few sub-par years. Even with a 7-4 and 6-5 team Sac drew 11,000+ a game '99-02. Highest ever was 21,000+. What is the highest Davis has ever drawn on-campus and not using Hughes? Congrats on the new stadium, I have heard it has been shrunk to a 10-13K capacity with room to expand if needed in the future.

How is your Dodge Dakota holding up?

[lucchesicourt]

Well Toomey doesn't hold 10,000 fans so trying to maych Hughes is impossible. But, if you look at the Causeway Classic in Sac, many of the fans you draw to get those big attendance figures are also UCD fans. I can tell you that Toomey has sold out on many, many occasions. Another thing, the entire population of Davis is not much bigger than 60,000 (I believe, as I really haven't kept up on it lately), so it would be quite difficult to attract 50,000 from the local population for an Ags game. But, if UCD was in a large city like other D1 institutions I am sure there would be a better draw. Let's face it, besides Davis the only cities to draw from are Dixon, Woodland, and maybe Vacaville.
My dakota is doing pretty well, almost 100,000 mile and no other problems except the ball joints, but they were finally replaced by Dodge. By the way, how did you know?

[lucchesicourt]

There is also one other factor that hinders U Davis' sports attendance, and that is that there is NO chance to be in the playoffs. As soon as Davis becomes playoff elgible, I expect attendance to increase. I only attended 2 games last year, and had attended every home game when they were D2 and playoff elgible. But, being there is no opportunity for the Ags to be in them for another 2 years, I do not feel as though there is much to look forward to except for individual games where we can show we belong.

[X-Factor]

Your sure that would really hinder attendance though? NDSU is in the same boat (only 1 year behind UCD) and we actually saw a 1000-1500 attendance increase from the prior year.

[DaBears]

Yep, that pretty much describes TxSt alright.


Question for UNC fans. Has recruiting, in your opinions, improved since the move to D-I? Or is it to early to tell? I know you guys had it rough last year*, but do you think the overall talent is improving.


*UNC's 2004 was a much tougher schedule than 2003. Its also why I think that 2005 is going to be the true test for both UC-Davis and North Dakota State as both their 2004 schedules were pretty easy overall.
Yes, both are good teams, but I'm still doubtful of them deserving all the top 25 accolades that they've gotten.

Aggie and Bison fans, please don't see this as smack.I know you guys had some great wins. Its just that I don't know wether UC-Davis or North Dakota State can play a full I-AA schedule. I guess we will know sometime in late November.

in my opinion it is too early to tell if our recruiting has gotten better. I haven't seen a good QB at UNC since Mcguffey in '99. I also agree that UCD and NDSU will have their true tests this year. I think it is possible that both will do well but the alternative is also a reality.

[lucchesicourt]

UC Davis played a full 1AA schedule last year. This year we are pretty much playing against the cream of 1AA in OOC games. So, if your saying we will not fair well against the cream of 1AA, well we'll find out soon, starting 9/3.

[Mr. C]

Crappy coaching, same problem as Tx State has had since 1982. I am an alum of both schools so I can bash the ineptitude of the coaches over the last decade.
I couldn't let this comment pass without a reply. First off, Texas State has a very solid coach now in David Bailiff. He is extremely well respected by the folks I've talked to around the Southland Conference and I was very impressed by him when I ealt with him at last season's Texas State-Appalachian State game. Get used to it, Texas State might have had its coaching problems in the past, but those days are over and the Bobcats should field competitive teams in the Southland as long as Bailiff is there.

On Sacramento State having "crappy coaching," you've got to give Steve Mooshagian a chance to turn things around. Like Bailiff, he is in his second year at the school, so it's too early to tell if he will fail. If the CS-Sacramento administration gives Steve the proper support, I am very confident he will succeed. I have known Steve since the days when he was a WR at Fresno State and I was the beat writer for the campus newspaper, the Daily Collegian. He was a class act and a hard-working player who got the most out of his talent. He also learned a lot from his coach (ex-Montana State, Washington State and Fresno State legend Jim Sweeney) and will get that across to his players at Sac State. I thought the Hornets made a great hire when they picked up Steve.

[IaaScribe]

Mr. C ... agreed on Moos. He seems like a high class guy, which was a nice change from John Volek, who was quite possibly the biggest horse's ass I've come across in covering college football.

Green Cookie Monster: What's the progress on the new basketball digs over there. When I was there back in January, they were talking about it a little bit. Anything would be a major upgrade over ol' Hornet Gym.

[DaBears]

Or why former BSC member Cal State Northridge dropped football.

Here in the Big Sky we have seen this successful D-II in large metro area moves into conference movie before - CSN, Sac State, Portland State. Maybe UNC will be different.

Success has more to do with the University, alumni and community support (read donors and fan base). In general I think it is difficult for schools that tend to have large "commuter student " populations to build the support base necessary to provide adequate funding to be successful in D-I football. If UNC has this type of support they will most likely be successful, but if the alumni and people in Greeley don't know or care who the football team is playing then it will be difficult. Time will tell.

i frequently hear people using portland state as an example of a former d-II who is a I-AA failure. I don't know how you can say PSU is a failure when their move is still relatively recent and they are solid in a lot of sports--including football and their fan base consistently grows

[IaaScribe]

Portland State has been anything but a failure. They've already qualified for the playoffs once and they were very close to making the NCAA tournament last season before choking against Weber State in the Big Sky semifinals. The problem with PSU is that it will never draw fans. Portland folk either like the Ducks or the Beavers, and there isn't much room for UP or PSU in the sporting landscape. Plus, PSU is mostly a commuter campus, so there isn't a whole lot of that campus feeling going around.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Green Cookie Monster: What's the progress on the new basketball digs over there. When I was there back in January, they were talking about it a little bit. Anything would be a major upgrade over ol' Hornet Gym.

Latest I have heard is ground breaking in summer '06. The facility will be built in sections. The school and city are trying to once again secure the '08 Olympic Trials on campus. If Sac gets the Trials again, construction will be broken into sections to eliminate inconvenience during that time. I have heard that a new $2.5M fieldhouse, coaches offices, health and weight room will be built specifically for football and track. I think this $2.5M project will be the first piece of the RWEC. All told, this new fieldhouse will be attached to the arena and wellness center with a final price of $123M.

[grizbeer]

i frequently hear people using portland state as an example of a former d-II who is a I-AA failure. I don't know how you can say PSU is a failure when their move is still relatively recent and they are solid in a lot of sports--including football and their fan base consistently growsPortland state has defiantly has some good teams, no question. But after UNC years of football success in D-II, if by 2014 Northern Colorado has won 0 BSC Football titles, has only 1 playoff appearance (a first round loss) and averages 6500 - 7500 per game in attendance would you consider the move successful?

[Green Cookie Monster]

I couldn't let this comment pass without a reply. First off, Texas State has a very solid coach now in David Bailiff. He is extremely well respected by the folks I've talked to around the Southland Conference and I was very impressed by him when I ealt with him at last season's Texas State-Appalachian State game. Get used to it, Texas State might have had its coaching problems in the past, but those days are over and the Bobcats should field competitive teams in the Southland as long as Bailiff is there.

On Sacramento State having "crappy coaching," you've got to give Steve Mooshagian a chance to turn things around. Like Bailiff, he is in his second year at the school, so it's too early to tell if he will fail. If the CS-Sacramento administration gives Steve the proper support, I am very confident he will succeed. I have known Steve since the days when he was a WR at Fresno State and I was the beat writer for the campus newspaper, the Daily Collegian. He was a class act and a hard-working player who got the most out of his talent. He also learned a lot from his coach (ex-Montana State, Washington State and Fresno State legend Jim Sweeney) and will get that across to his players at Sac State. I thought the Hornets made a great hire when they picked up Steve.

I should have clarified, crappy coaching=John Volek.
This guy should have won many more games with players like Charles Roberts(current CFL), Ricky Ray(current CFL), Daimon Shelton(current NFL), Lonie Paxton(current NFL) Lamont Webb, etc. His game calling was atrocious and inevitably the Hornets would lose a game due to their inability to adjust at halftime, bad playcalling and clock management and often being shellshocked by the end of the first quarter with no chance or hope of making adjustments or substitutions as necessary.

A trait known to Sac State is their willingness to hang on to people for perhaps too long. Volek should have been gone after year four, so Moose should have the time he needs. As for David Bailiff, don't know him.

I hope both Sac State and Tx. State do well this year and start to build a legacy of winning, or at least being competitive in every game. Some games Volek coached was a complete washout.

Moose has five quality QBs to choose the starter from:

http://www.sacbee.com/ips_rich_content/880-sac.jpg

http://www.sacbee.com/ips_rich_content/282-sac2.jpg

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/13439978p-14280998c.html

I am impressed with the coaching staff we have this year. Criner, Skipper, Rodriguez, so Moose, finally in this third year, has the people pushing the buttons he wants. The previous two years Moose had to scrape together a staff because salaries for the old Volek staff and Volek himself were still on the books. We were paying two HC's and their staffs at once. That is over with. I expect Moose to do well and make a difference.

[DaBears]

Portland state has defiantly has some good teams, no question. But after UNC years of football success in D-II, if by 2014 Northern Colorado has won 0 BSC Football titles, has only 1 playoff appearance (a first round loss) and averages 6500 - 7500 per game in attendance would you consider the move successful?

I wouldn't consider that successful for UNC but PSU started with a lot less fan base than they currently have. I don't even think they had a stadium when they first started the move. I don't have concrete numbers but I really think they are on a steady incline and their campus is starting to feel like a "real campus."

[CrunchGriz]

I wouldn't consider that successful for UNC but PSU started with a lot less fan base than they currently have. I don't even think they had a stadium when they first started the move. I don't have concrete numbers but I really think they are on a steady incline and their campus is starting to feel like a "real campus."

PSU drew far better back in their Div. II days under Mouse Davis and Pokey Allen than they do now. They had all sorts of gimmicks, like a series of funny commercials featuring the coach (Pokey Allen) doing semi-dangerous things, and letting the crowd decide what play to run, that pumped up attendance--oh, yeah, they won a lot more then, too.

Civic Stadium--oops, PGE Park--is a crappy football stadium, as well, even worse in its new configuration, which has fans on only one side and one end zone, and a mile away at that.