Conference Championship Games

[Lion1983]

Could conference championship games work in FCS?

Why or why not...

[POD Knows]

Could conference championship games work in FCS?

Why or why not...
What do you mean, like the idiotic conference tournaments in BB?

[WestCoastAggie]

The SWAC lets the host for their Championship game keep the gate receipts and that can end up being a high 6-figure number.

Financially, that could be very lucrative but it wouldn’t be a success for every conference.

[Professor Chaos]

If a conference wanted to send it's champion to the playoffs they'd have to play their conference championship game the Saturday before Thanksgiving. That would trim a game off the regular season for everyone else in that conference unless they dynamically matched up everyone else in the conference with each other based on the rest of the regular season standings.

So for most conferences having a 10 game regular season (most years) isn't worth the benefit of playing a conference championship game. If the playoffs are out of the picture because a conference declines to send their champion, the playoffs themselves go away, or they get pushed back a week we might see more FCS conferences play championship games.

[WestCoastAggie]

If a conference wanted to send it's champion to the playoffs they'd have to play their conference championship game the Saturday before Thanksgiving. That would trim a game off the regular season for everyone else in that conference unless they dynamically matched up everyone else in the conference with each other based on the rest of the regular season standings.

So for most conferences having a 10 game regular season (most years) isn't worth the benefit of playing a conference championship game. If the playoffs are out of the picture because a conference declines to send their champion, the playoffs themselves go away, or they get pushed back a week we might see more FCS conferences play championship games.

Why can’t the FCS have the same regular season calendar as FBS for one, and why can’t the playoffs begin the first week of December?

We can’t say its due to class time either as FBS schools play bowl games in the middle of the holiday break.

It’s just so perplexing why the NCAA won’t move both subdivisions to the same calendar.

[Professor Chaos]

Why can’t the FCS have the same regular season calendar as FBS for one, and why can’t the playoffs begin the first week of December?

We can’t say its due to class time either as FBS schools play bowl games in the middle of the holiday break.

It’s just so perplexing why the NCAA won’t move both subdivisions to the same calendar.
Unless they reduced the size of the playoffs that would put the semifinals on or very near Christmas. I suppose they could give a bye week between the quarters and the semis (playing the semis shortly before new years) and then another bye week between the semis and the championship and finish in roughly the same timeframe.

I'd say the current format being what it is boils down to what the majority of schools/conference want. I don't think any other FCS conference has the fan following and neutral site pedigree to pull off what the SWAC does. Kudos to them but I think the MVFC, who is 2nd to the SWAC in terms of average attendance for everyone in the conference, would have a hard time drawing fans to a neutral site on Thanksgiving Saturday for a conference title game.

[DFW HOYA]

What conferences could even host playoff games? (Hint: the future power structure of the subdivision, minus the Pioneer.)

Big Sky: Yes
Big South: No
CAA: Yes
Ivy: Never mind
MEAC: No
Missouri Valley: Yes
NEC: No
OVC: No
Patriot: No
Pioneer: Yes
Southern: No
Southland: Yes
SWAC: Yes

[lionsrking2]

No.

[FormerPokeCenter]

If the Southland ever went to that, we better find a centralized neutral field, because not everybody has the facilities to host a conference championship game. I'd say use Northwestern's as a neutral site, because they haven't been in the championship hunt in about 20 years...but....that visitor's lockeroom, tho....

[WestCoastAggie]

Unless they reduced the size of the playoffs that would put the semifinals on or very near Christmas. I suppose they could give a bye week between the quarters and the semis (playing the semis shortly before new years) and then another bye week between the semis and the championship and finish in roughly the same timeframe.

I'd say the current format being what it is boils down to what the majority of schools/conference want. I don't think any other FCS conference has the fan following and neutral site pedigree to pull off what the SWAC does. Kudos to them but I think the MVFC, who is 2nd to the SWAC in terms of average attendance for everyone in the conference, would have a hard time drawing fans to a neutral site on Thanksgiving Saturday for a conference title game.

Regarding Christmas, the Celebration Bowl was played the weekend before Christmas and it didn’t affect the teams or fans for the most part. I’d imagine the NCAA Semis would be the same way.

Also, pushing things back a week would and could help the host schools generate higher ticket sales.

[WileECoyote06]

If a conference wanted to send it's champion to the playoffs they'd have to play their conference championship game the Saturday before Thanksgiving. That would trim a game off the regular season for everyone else in that conference unless they dynamically matched up everyone else in the conference with each other based on the rest of the regular season standings.

So for most conferences having a 10 game regular season (most years) isn't worth the benefit of playing a conference championship game. If the playoffs are out of the picture because a conference declines to send their champion, the playoffs themselves go away, or they get pushed back a week we might see more FCS conferences play championship games.

I think that's what the D2 Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference does.

[WestCoastAggie]

If the Southland ever went to that, we better find a centralized neutral field, because not everybody has the facilities to host a conference championship game. I'd say use Northwestern's as a neutral site, because they haven't been in the championship hunt in about 20 years...but....that visitor's lockeroom, tho....

The SWAC has similar concerns. If MVSU ever hosts, they’d probably play the game in Jackson State’s stadium. Texas Southern would also host the championship at Dynamo Stadium.

[Professor Chaos]

Regarding Christmas, the Celebration Bowl was played the weekend before Christmas and it didn’t affect the teams or fans for the most part. I’d imagine the NCAA Semis would be the same way.

Also, pushing things back a week would and could help the host schools generate higher ticket sales.
I think the fan following for the Celebration Bowl is better than the vast majority of schools hosting semifinal games would be. Also, with the Celebration Bowl you had several weeks of lead time to sell tickets. For the semifinals you have 5-6 days. That's going to be a real problem when games are played in such close proximity to Christmas. Most people who would go to the game aren't going to wait to make Christmas plans depending on if their team makes the semis and when they play.

Going forward the next few years if we pushed the playoffs back a week the semifinal dates would be:
2020: 12/25-12/26
2021: 12/24-12/25
2022: 12/23-12/24
2023: 12/22-12/23
2024: 12/27-12/28
2025: 12/26-12/27

The games days would always be between 12/22 and 12/28. So you'd either be playing games on Christmas Eve/Day or trying to sell tickets during those days. I think it would destroy semifinal attendance.

[Pinnum]

Regarding Christmas, the Celebration Bowl was played the weekend before Christmas and it didn’t affect the teams or fans for the most part. I’d imagine the NCAA Semis would be the same way.

Also, pushing things back a week would and could help the host schools generate higher ticket sales.

NCA&T had a month to prepare for the Celebration Bowl. Alcorn State had two weeks.

The Semi-Final teams/fans would have one week which coupled with Christmas would probably lead to a greater impact than there currently is for the one week between rounds.

[Pinnum]

I think that's what the D2 Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference does.

The Division-III MIAC announced they would be doing it.

"
Each MIAC team will play eight conference games, including four "in-division" games, three "crossover" games, and one "playoff" game. The final week of the regular season will function as "Championship Week," wherein teams will be ranked 1-5 in each division based on the current season's in-division games only. Each team will then match up with the corresponding seed in the other division for a "playoff" game. The winner of the contest between the two divisional leaders will receive the MIAC's automatic qualifier to the NCAA Division III football playoffs."



Under these type of plans, the home game advantage simply rotates back and forth through this scenario. One division is home one year and the other division is home the next year.

[Pinnum]

If the Southland ever went to that, we better find a centralized neutral field, because not everybody has the facilities to host a conference championship game. I'd say use Northwestern's as a neutral site, because they haven't been in the championship hunt in about 20 years...but....that visitor's lockeroom, tho....

Neutral sites don't need to be used.

If the facility can host the regular season and/or Home Coming then it is fine. Simply rotate back and forth who gets to host by year. Use divisions and it solves it.

[ASU33]

The SWAC has similar concerns. If MVSU ever hosts, they’d probably play the game in Jackson State’s stadium. Texas Southern would also host the championship at Dynamo Stadium.

Dynamo Stadium is Texas Southern's home stadium anyway. They only play their homecoming game on campus.

[ST_Lawson]

The Division-III MIAC announced they would be doing it.

"
Each MIAC team will play eight conference games, including four "in-division" games, three "crossover" games, and one "playoff" game. The final week of the regular season will function as "Championship Week," wherein teams will be ranked 1-5 in each division based on the current season's in-division games only. Each team will then match up with the corresponding seed in the other division for a "playoff" game. The winner of the contest between the two divisional leaders will receive the MIAC's automatic qualifier to the NCAA Division III football playoffs."



Under these type of plans, the home game advantage simply rotates back and forth through this scenario. One division is home one year and the other division is home the next year.


A few years back I suggested something almost exactly like this for a 14-team Big Sky conference (if they were adding someone like Dixie State, for example).

Two 7-team divisions, play everyone in the division (6), plus one "rivalry" game with a team in the other division (1), then the last regular season weekend you rank each division 1-7 by conference standings, the #1's play each other, #2's play each other, etc. all the way down to the #7's playing each other. Location of the championship weekend goes back and forth between the divisions..."South" one year, "North" the next...that way each school knows if they'll be hosting or traveling the last weekend, they just may not know who they're hosting or traveling to until the weekend before.

The winner of the #1's game gets the conference autobid, and likely the loser of that game and the winner of #2 (maybe more) would get at-large spots (at-large still determined by the committee as usual). One of the nice things about matching up roughly "equal" teams at the end of the season is that the top few can get a bit of a "statement" win going into selection Sunday, and the #6 and #7 teams get the opportunity to finish out their season with a win.

[OhioHen]

Regarding Christmas, the Celebration Bowl was played the weekend before Christmas and it didn’t affect the teams or fans for the most part. I’d imagine the NCAA Semis would be the same way.

Also, pushing things back a week would and could help the host schools generate higher ticket sales.

The Celebration Bowl, for all the flack it receives on this site, has been successful because the teams participating are known far enough in advance for their fans to make appropriate plans (as well as those fans of HBCU football who don't care which teams participate).

FCS semifinals are at the home site of one of the teams and (with the possible exception of NDSU, nobody would know who is playing in the until the week prior. Doesn't work as well for traveling fans at Christmas.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Neutral sites don't need to be used.

If the facility can host the regular season and/or Home Coming then it is fine. Simply rotate back and forth who gets to host by year. Use divisions and it solves it.


I'm not sure you understand the degree to which converging fan bases of any two VIABLE Championship contending members of the Southland Conference football playing schools would overwhelm a place like Houston Baptist...I mean, unless they opened seating in the coveted CVS back alley dumpster section...

https://i0.wp.com/stgspaces.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/2017/10/Houston-Baptist-Huskies-Overview-2-e1536528170469.jpg?fit=700%2C400&ssl=1

However, on the plus side, they may be the only school in the country that offers drive through viewing options.

https://i0.wp.com/stgspaces.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/2017/10/HBU-Huskies-3-e1509856226365.jpg?fit=700%2C394&ssl=1

[FormerPokeCenter]

I don't think this fan base

https://texasbob.com/stadium/simages/1062.jpg

and this one

https://bestofswla.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/MSUFEATURED.jpg

Would be particularly well served by meeting up in any rotating championship location scheme that featured all of the SLC members....

[Gil Dobie]

No, we already have the playoffs for the best teams in the conference. Some times playoffs turn into quasi conference championship games, aka NDSU vs Illinois St.

[mvfcfan]

I wouldn't mind seeing conference championship games. If the MVFC wanted one then we'd need a 12th team. Hopefully Murray State becomes that 12th team at some point. We could let the team with the best record host or maybe we could play the game in St Louis as a neutral site. Do we really need a 3 week gap between the semifinals and Frisco?

[Lion1983]

I wouldn't mind seeing conference championship games. If the MVFC wanted one then we'd need a 12th team. Hopefully Murray State becomes that 12th team at some point. We could let the team with the best record host or maybe we could play the game in St Louis as a neutral site. Do we really need a 3 week gap between the semifinals and Frisco?

I like the idea of championship games as well, if you have 10 or more schools in your conference.
And no.... you do not need 3 weeks.

Especially in the MVFC, the two playing in the Championship Game are more than likely going to get a first round bye anyway, so the week before the playoffs is fine.

And that wouldn't be a problem for scheduling if you did a seeded last week to end the regular season.

Division vs Division the last week seeded

(A) 1 vs (B) 1. Championship game
(A) 2 vs (B) 2
And so on.

[TheKingpin28]

I wouldn't mind seeing conference championship games. If the MVFC wanted one then we'd need a 12th team. Hopefully Murray State becomes that 12th team at some point. We could let the team with the best record host or maybe we could play the game in St Louis as a neutral site. Do we really need a 3 week gap between the semifinals and Frisco?As long NDSU, SDSU, and UNI are not in the same division. If you put the Dakota schools plus UNI/Missery St in the same division, that should be voted down in a heartbeart.

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[POD Knows]

I wouldn't mind seeing conference championship games. If the MVFC wanted one then we'd need a 12th team. Hopefully Murray State becomes that 12th team at some point. We could let the team with the best record host or maybe we could play the game in St Louis as a neutral site. Do we really need a 3 week gap between the semifinals and Frisco?
Yea, let's add Murray State so the eastern part of that conference has no decent teams in it. :D

[Pinnum]

I'm not sure you understand the degree to which converging fan bases of any two VIABLE Championship contending members of the Southland Conference football playing schools would overwhelm a place like Houston Baptist...




It's nice that you only include picture of one side of the field. Here is the view of the stadium.
https://i0.wp.com/stgspaces.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/2017/10/HBU-Huskies-1-e1509856141322.jpg

Just to be clear we are on the same page... you do realize McNeese State and Abilene Christian already play games at Houston Baptist, right?

And those games don't sell out.

HBU has easily been able to handle the crowd.

So those teams playing at HBU isn't a problem. Can we agree on that?

Okay, so you think the Conference Championship is something different (even though it would simply be replacing a regular season conference game).

So let's play this out. Let's say that HBU makes the championship game and it is their division's year to host. We will gloss over the fact that they have never had a winning season in the Southland because "Hey, they could win the Southland some day!"

So what happens then? Simple. The same thing that happens for any game where there is more demand than capacity. You have a sell out. Tickets are set aside for the visiting teams--as with all games--and you limit the total capacity to a manageable crowd.

And what happens in the years when ACU or MSU get to host? Well, they get to pack out their stands for a major game with increased significance.

I am not seeing any issues here...

[mvfcfan]

Yea, let's add Murray State so the eastern part of that conference has no decent teams in it. :D

It wouldn't be that much different from the SEC East and SEC West where the West is generally stronger than the East. ILST and YSU have made the Championship game recently though, so it's a little unfair to say there are no good schools on our side.

[walliver]

A number of P5 conferences are struggling with attendance for their championship games - games which actually can determine playoff spots. Very few conferences would draw any type of crowd to a neutral site.

More recently, even the top FCS programs are having trouble drawing fans to post-Thanksgiving games. You also have the potential of two teams playing each other 3 times in a single season.

[Herder]

Could conference championship games work in FCS?

Why or why not...

If you like playing with yourself, then do conference championship games. If you like a national championship tournament, then it’s a bad idea unless you reduce the playoff to 8 teams or less.

Hey, some like playing with themselves (you know who you are SWAC MEAC), to each his own.

[FormerPokeCenter]

It's nice that you only include picture of one side of the field. Here is the view of the stadium.
https://i0.wp.com/stgspaces.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/2017/10/HBU-Huskies-1-e1509856141322.jpg

Just to be clear we are on the same page... you do realize McNeese State and Abilene Christian already play games at Houston Baptist, right?

And those games don't sell out.

HBU has easily been able to handle the crowd.

So those teams playing at HBU isn't a problem. Can we agree on that?

Okay, so you think the Conference Championship is something different (even though it would simply be replacing a regular season conference game).

So let's play this out. Let's say that HBU makes the championship game and it is their division's year to host. We will gloss over the fact that they have never had a winning season in the Southland because "Hey, they could win the Southland some day!"

So what happens then? Simple. The same thing that happens for any game where there is more demand than capacity. You have a sell out. Tickets are set aside for the visiting teams--as with all games--and you limit the total capacity to a manageable crowd.

And what happens in the years when ACU or MSU get to host? Well, they get to pack out their stands for a major game with increased significance.

I am not seeing any issues here...


Those games don't sell out because A.) Houston Baptist isn't exactly competitive right now and B.) Not many people wanna go to a game where seating is limited 5,000 total, and parking is not exactly convenient....Fondren Street in Houston is a major traffic artery and unless you get lucky, you'll be caught on the other side of it.

With a playoff berth on the line, a surging HBU playing against an Abilene, McNeese, SFA, Sam Houston Institute of Technology or even Lamar would overwhelm that place.

However, my primary concern was that since the Southland does rather stupid things with scheduling, it's conceivable that they'd want to announce the location of the conference championship game before the season and - in other sports - has demonstrated a willingness to move those games around and host them around the league. If they did that in football, it would be disasterous if, say, if the Abilene and McNeese fanbases were to meet if that were the neutral site.

Beyond that, I waded into this discussion because it allowed me to insult 9 out of 11 conference members ;)

[jajfitz]

Don't like them. The "Western Division" champion is 11-0. The "Eastern Division" winner is 8-3 or worse. East wins and gets the auto bid. Western might get in anyway but if it happens in a couple different conferences you might end up have a deserving team sitting at home. BTW-I also dislike all conference tourneys in all sports.

[TheKingpin28]

It wouldn't be that much different from the SEC East and SEC West where the West is generally stronger than the East. ILST and YSU have made the Championship game recently though, so it's a little unfair to say there are no good schools on our side.Explain to me how the east schools would miss 3 teams a season and that would be fine? In theory, a team could miss NDSU, SDSU, and UNI while playing Missery St, GFCC, and USeD and run the table to a guaranteed top 8 seed while the West could miss ISUb, WIU, and Murray St and be forced to have easily the toughest schedule?

You really want to make it fair, create it like this:

Division A:
-NDSU
-SDSU
-WIU
-ISUb
-SIU
-Missery St

Divison B:
-GFCC
-USeD
-UNI
-Murray St
-ISUr
-YSU

Then you have a "protected" rivalry game that is a yearly matchup:
-NDSU and GFCC
-SDSU and USeD
-WIU and Murray St
-Missery State and UNI
-ISUr and SIU
-ISUb and YSU

Each of these minimizes travel between schools relatively ok and then you get 2 games against the other division every year. This would also force D1 schools to start acting like D1 schools and stop complaining about travel schedules. If you truly think the Dakota schools plus UNI would allow all 5 to be in the same division forcing each other to beat up on each other while the east cakewalks to the playoffs every year, that is not going to happen.

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[JayJ79]

No, we already have the playoffs for the best teams in the conference. Some times playoffs turn into quasi conference championship games, aka NDSU vs Illinois St.
MVFC teams almost always end up playing each other in the playoffs anyway. Heck, there are often a few MVFC vs. MVFC playoff games each year.
And when top MVFC teams play each other, it is usually a rather physical game, with both sides getting beat up and losing players to injury, and I'm sure the top MVFC teams would rather not always play each other (possibly again) right before the playoffs, and then have a good chance of meeting up yet again in the playoffs themselves.

[Herder]

MVFC teams almost always end up playing each other in the playoffs anyway. Heck, there are often a few MVFC vs. MVFC playoff games each year.
And when top MVFC teams play each other, it is usually a rather physical game, with both sides getting beat up and losing players to injury, and I'm sure the top MVFC teams would rather not always play each other (possibly again) right before the playoffs, and then have a good chance of meeting up yet again in the playoffs themselves.

if you’re going to goto a 4 Team playoff, then conf championship games are good. 16-24 team playoff, bad. It’s really as simple as that. Conf Championship games in a 24 team playoff, stupid, stupid idea.

[Bisonoline]

I have never liked Conference Championship games. You win it during the season. You shouldnt have to win it twice. But lets be honest. The only reason they started this BS is because its another money game.

[JayJ79]

I have never liked Conference Championship games. You win it during the season. You shouldnt have to win it twice. But lets be honest. The only reason they started this BS is because its another money game.
the only way you can truly "win it during the season" is if you played all of the other conference members during the season. But since too many of the "conferences" these days are bloated and don't have round-robin schedules, that rarely happens.

[Schism55]

https://twitter.com/SamHerderFCS/status/1271827112710807553

Whizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[katss07]

I have never liked Conference Championship games. You win it during the season. You shouldnt have to win it twice. But lets be honest. The only reason they started this BS is because its another money game.
Maybe not FCS, but at the FBS level Conference Championship games are necessary. You can’t crown a champ from a 12-14 school league based on how they did against 8 of the teams. Sure, maybe it was started with revenue in mind. But round robin wouldn’t work well. Not with the size of conferences anymore. And they’ll only get bigger when the next wave of realignment happens, which could be very soon.