United Athletic Conference

[Baron Sardonicus]

Any schools showing interest in the commissioner's scheme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t8AjIhdtcA&t=86s)? Charleston Southern? Valdosta (as a move up)?

Where would Monmouth play football if Big South football falls apart?

I realize the plan would mostly benefit men's basketball scheduling, but the topic seems appropriate for a football board.

[OhioHen]

Old news with discussion that lasted longer than many of us expected. So little relevance that it's already down to page 3 of a fairly quiet FCS Discussion Board.

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?244954-Atlantic-Sun-plans-Football

[Baron Sardonicus]

Thanks for the link.

It looks like that discussion strayed off topic a bit. I think the UAC would specifically target the Big South. That's mainly where the A-Sun gets tangled up in associate memberships. A raid on Big South football would leave the Big South with Winthrop, Radford, Longwood, etc. 8-10 schools.

[walliver]

Thanks for the link.

It looks like that discussion strayed off topic a bit. I think the UAC would specifically target the Big South. That's mainly where the A-Sun gets tangled up in associate memberships. A raid on Big South football would leave the Big South with Winthrop, Radford, Longwood, etc. 8-10 schools.

Unless the A-Sun has changed its plans, the UAC would be made up of larger public schools. Charleston Southern, Gardner Webb, and Campbell would not be invited.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Yes. I see that now. Maybe they'll raid the SoCon and/or OVC?

[HootyHoo]

The UAC is a great idea. A conference with a foundation of Kennesaw State, Jacksonville State, and North Carolina A&T is very strong. Then add West Florida and North Alabama as second tier programs and you have a superior product to the OVC and the SOCON. Austin Peay and Chattanooga would be great additions as well.

[Baron Sardonicus]

The UAC is a great idea.

The Missouri Valley and Summit could do the same thing. Put all the MVFC schools into the same conference (Summit). Private schools (plus maybe Omaha and Kansas City) to the Valley. With St. Thomas, that's 18 regular season basketball games for everyone.

[PaladinFan]

Yes. I see that now. Maybe they'll raid the SoCon and/or OVC?

Again - and, admittedly, I may be missing the boat - but what's the draw for a SoCon school? You would literally take a step back in every sport in addition to paying out the withdrawal fee.

So, worse athletics across the board and pay a bunch of money for the privilege. I don't see it.

[citdog]

Again - and, admittedly, I may be missing the boat - but what's the draw for a SoCon school? You would literally take a step back in every sport in addition to paying out the withdrawal fee.

So, worse athletics across the board and pay a bunch of money for the privilege. I don't see it.

Nobody does who isn't in the minute South.

[Lion1983]

The UAC is a great idea. A conference with a foundation of Kennesaw State, Jacksonville State, and North Carolina A&T is very strong. Then add West Florida and North Alabama as second tier programs and you have a superior product to the OVC and the SOCON. Austin Peay and Chattanooga would be great additions as well.

Second tier my ass

[PaladinFan]

Second tier my ass

If you want to go a layer deeper, I would also argue that APSU and UTC are not "great additions."

Austin Peay has historically been one of the worst FCS football teams in the country. They have had a few recently good seasons (and lost their quality coach), but are not far removed from averaging roughly 1 win per season from 2010-2016.

I like UTC, but the Mocs - outside of a brief 3 or 4 year period under Russ Huesman - have been a .500ish to bottom third SoCon program for 30 years.

[Lion1983]

The UAC, in it proposed form, will not be able to happen now. NJIT has joined the American East, which puts a wrench in the UAC plans...

[smilo]

Yeah, this strategy might be impossible now, and it was a longshot to begin with due to the lack of interested teams (needing 7-10 to make it work). I think it's still pretty clear something needs to be done to make the Atlantic Sun more cohesive though. Liberty and Bellarmine is not a feasible future for their conference mates. The other schools were looking to ditch those two and instead they got ditched by NJIT - the other infeasible travel destination, which may be for the best.

If the future really is a mass drive towards reduced travel, the A-Sun has really ought to make a concerted push for Jacksonville State and someone like Chattanooga just so they can tell Liberty to beat it and kindly suggest Bellarmine find a better arrangement. It's not even just to create a football power conference; it's just to have a sensible league! If Chattanooga's ties to the SoCon are too strong, then even one of the two more recent SoCon additions would be perfectly fine to invite. (I just think a public school makes a bit more sense while retaining close FCS opponents for OOC match-ups.)

[Lion1983]

Yeah, this strategy might be impossible now, and it was a longshot to begin with due to the lack of interested teams (needing 7-10 to make it work). I think it's still pretty clear something needs to be done to make the Atlantic Sun more cohesive though. Liberty and Bellarmine is not a feasible future for their conference mates. The other schools were looking to ditch those two and instead they got ditched by NJIT - the other infeasible travel destination, which may be for the best.

If the future really is a mass drive towards reduced travel, the A-Sun has really ought to make a concerted push for Jacksonville State and someone like Chattanooga just so they can tell Liberty to beat it and kindly suggest Bellarmine find a better arrangement. It's not even just to create a football power conference; it's just to have a sensible league! If Chattanooga's ties to the SoCon are too strong, then even one of the two more recent SoCon additions would be perfectly fine to invite. (I just think a public school makes a bit more sense while retaining close FCS opponents for OOC match-ups.)

I dont think Liberty and Bellarmine is a problem.
We all have known NJIT was going to leave, it was just a matter of when. And there is no reason either party needed to stay together.

Liberty will stay until they get a FBS invite, if they ever get one. Until then, they are satisfied with the ASUN and FBS indy.

Bellarmine president said they want a strong presence in the Southeast, which the ASUN is.

As much as I would like Jacksonville State and Chattanooga in, it dont make any sense without a football solution other than the Big South.

[PaladinFan]

Yeah, this strategy might be impossible now, and it was a longshot to begin with due to the lack of interested teams (needing 7-10 to make it work). I think it's still pretty clear something needs to be done to make the Atlantic Sun more cohesive though. Liberty and Bellarmine is not a feasible future for their conference mates. The other schools were looking to ditch those two and instead they got ditched by NJIT - the other infeasible travel destination, which may be for the best.

If the future really is a mass drive towards reduced travel, the A-Sun has really ought to make a concerted push for Jacksonville State and someone like Chattanooga just so they can tell Liberty to beat it and kindly suggest Bellarmine find a better arrangement. It's not even just to create a football power conference; it's just to have a sensible league! If Chattanooga's ties to the SoCon are too strong, then even one of the two more recent SoCon additions would be perfectly fine to invite. (I just think a public school makes a bit more sense while retaining close FCS opponents for OOC match-ups.)

Again, make an argument for why UTC (or any SoCon team) would leave the SoCon for the A-Sun?

Anything is possible, I just don't see what's in it for them.

[Lion1983]

Again, make an argument for why UTC (or any SoCon team) would leave the SoCon for the A-Sun?

Anything is possible, I just don't see what's in it for them.

There absolutely wouldn't be in this instance. Unless they have some major problems with the SoCon... (and I'm not saying they do)

[smilo]

Again, make an argument for why UTC (or any SoCon team) would leave the SoCon for the A-Sun?

Anything is possible, I just don't see what's in it for them.

Yes, I agree UTC is a tougher move to make than JSU. I don't think this the move puts them in an obviously better position, but it's not worse for them either. If they really have such an attachment to Samford and ETSU over JSU and UNA (or more likely, the other teams besides their neighbors), then a team like SC State is a valid backup plan. It's just that they are five years removed from a financial crisis and another one is almost certainly looming, so I don't think they are a safe pick - A-Sun need to ask UTC and Mercer first.

FWIW, I can't easily make an argument for why it is better for UTC (they'd need to be sold on the idea of their athletic mission being more aligned with these peers for both basketball and football), but I think the argument is definitely there for Mercer, who has no serious attachment to most of the SoCon membership and doesn't currently spend an OOC game on Kennesaw when that should be its premier game. Once Liberty is gone, you have pretty easy road trip pairings for ten teams so I'd bet it becomes a bit more efficient than the current Wed/Sat scheduling.

[PaladinFan]

There absolutely wouldn't be in this instance. Unless they have some major problems with the SoCon... (and I'm not saying they do)

I'm not aware of any issues.

I can potentially see where the South Carolina schools (Furman, Wofford, and the Citadel) could vote as a bloc on issues. That could create some potential consternation amongst other member schools.

I have long been of the opinion that the SoCon would do well to continue to expand in this era of new conference alignment. I know they like the round robin 8 football game format (4 home, 4 away), but often the easiest thing to keep doing is what you've always done.

If I ran the SoCon and all the data lined up, I would:

1. Add Kennesaw State, Jacksonville State, Campbell. That move would add legitimate football schools, keep a public/private balance, fit the geographic footprint, and make sense for those schools.
2. Add Belmont. Good basketball school moving to a better basketball conference.
3. Divide the SoCon into East/West divisions. E: Furman, Wofford, Campbell, WCU, VMI, the Citadel, (UNC-G). W: UTC, Samford, Mercer, KSU, JSU, ETSU, (Belmont)
4. Keep 4 home, 4 road games. Play everyone in the division and 3 cross division games on a rotating schedule.

With that format, all of the historic rivalries would be maintained and played every year.

[PaladinFan]

Yes, I agree UTC is a tougher move to make than JSU. I don't think this the move puts them in an obviously better position, but it's not worse for them either. If they really have such an attachment to Samford and ETSU over JSU and UNA (or more likely, the other teams besides their neighbors), then a team like SC State is a valid backup plan. It's just that they are five years removed from a financial crisis and another one is almost certainly looming, so I don't think they are a safe pick - A-Sun need to ask UTC and Mercer first.

FWIW, I can't easily make an argument for why it is better for UTC (they'd need to be sold on the idea of their athletic mission being more aligned with these peers for both basketball and football), but I think the argument is definitely there for Mercer, who has no serious attachment to most of the SoCon membership and doesn't currently spend an OOC game on Kennesaw when that should be its premier game. Once Liberty is gone, you have pretty easy road trip pairings for ten teams so I'd bet it becomes a bit more efficient than the current Wed/Sat scheduling.

I mean, Mercer already left the A-Sun once. I don't see them punting back to a conference they already dominated and playing in a fledgling football league.

Remember basketball. The SoCon is arguably one of the top mid-major conferences in men's basketball right now. That's where the money is at this level.