FCS in the 2020 NFL Draft

[UAalum72]

Third Round

*105. New Orleans (from Minnesota) — Adam Trautman, TE, Dayton, Pioneer League

Fifth Round

171. Texans - Isaiah Coulter, WR, Rhode Island, Colonial

[centennial]

Poor showing for the FCS.

[katss07]

Third Round

*105. New Orleans (from Minnesota) — Adam Trautman, TE, Dayton, Pioneer League

Fifth Round

171. Texans - Isaiah Coulter, WR, Rhode Island, Colonial
You left off Chinn. Second round.

[Daytripper]

Lack of pro days is a big reason for so few draftees in my opinion.

[Herdistheword]

It is an absolute shame that James Robinson and Derrek Tuszka haven’t been drafted yet.

[kdinva]

Lack of pro days is a big reason for so few draftees in my opinion.

Kirk Herbstreit doesn't mind...

[Herdistheword]

Lack of pro days is a big reason for so few draftees in my opinion.

I’m not sure if it was just the pro days. I mean Tuszka and Robinson both showed out at the combine and their respective all-star games, but they are still being overlooked.

[Herdistheword]

DiNucci to the Cowboys is a surprise.

[kdinva]

Dallas, 7th round, selects JMU QB Ben DiNucci

[katss07]

Colgate’s son is headed to Dallas. Shocked he got picked... 5 times.

[Herdistheword]

Colgate’s son is headed to Dallas. Shocked he got picked... 5 times.

Thanks, I needed this.

[Professor Chaos]

Colgate’s son is headed to Dallas. Shocked he got picked... 5 times.
It makes it easy for me to continue to dislike him at least...

[Chalupa Batman]

It makes it easy for me to continue to dislike him at least...

Ditto


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[KPSUL]

Coulter declared for the draft a year early - you don't see many FCS guys getting drafted after their Jr. year. In addition, they have senior WR Aaron Parker, who will likely be one of the first signed as an Undrafted rookie free agent.

[Wildcats]

As a Cowboys fan I dont like that pick. Oh well

[KPSUL]

As a Cowboys fan I dont like that pick. Oh well

Don't worry he won't be around very long.

[UAalum72]

Tuszka to Denver

[Bisonator]

Lack of pro days and team visits really hurt the small school guys. A lot of players that would have been picked on a typical year went undrafted.

[Laker]

Lack of pro days and team visits really hurt the small school guys. A lot of players that would have been picked on a typical year went undrafted.


Jason Kirk, FURLOUGH MODE@thejasonkirk
(https://twitter.com/thejasonkirk)40m (https://twitter.com/thejasonkirk/status/1254184184941346821)

Usually at least 20 FCS players picked per year. Only 9 this year from all of non-FBS. Lack of pro days was really rough for small schools

[Herdistheword]

Coulter declared for the draft a year early - you don't see many FCS guys getting drafted after their Jr. year. In addition, they have senior WR Aaron Parker, who will likely be one of the first signed as an Undrafted rookie free agent.

Definitely impressive to be drafted from the FCS as a Junior, especially since the NFL kind of ignored most of the small school guys this year.

[katss07]

Lots of FCS guys getting scooped up quickly as UDFAs. Some notable ones...

Kyle Murphy: NYG
Dante Olson: Philadelphia
Aaron Parker: Dallas
Zack Johnson: GB
Ellefson: Jacksonville
Alex Taylor: Cleveland (shocked he wasn’t drafted)
Bryce Sterk: Miami
Ried Sinnett: Tampa Bay
Bobby Price: Detroit
John Daka: Baltimore

[caribbeanhen]

Always liked Parker, a talent

[katss07]

A few more big names getting signed... some of these guys have potential to make some noise in the league IMO.

Cam Gill: Tampa (Dude lives in the backfield, all time NEC sack leader)
Jonah Williams: LAR
Case Cookus: NYG (If he can stay healthy he has a shot at a backup job)
Kristian Wilkerson: Tennessee
Charlie Taumoepeau: Dallas
James Robinson: Jacksonville
Christian Rozeboom: LAR

[katss07]

Always liked Parker, a talent
I’m a big Parker fan. URI had so much talent, it’s a shame they couldn’t put it together. Had two legit NFL receivers, a solid offensive line with Murphy, a good quarterback in Priore. Lost way to many games by one score...

[BEAR]

Hunter Watts (UCA) OL 6’8” 320 free agent Denver Broncos xhurrayx

[BDKJMU]

I-AA/FCS picks since the draft decreased from 12 to 7 rounds in 1993:
1993: 17
1994: 22
1995: 22
1996: 29
1997: 27
1998: 17
1999: 27
2000: 21
2001: 16
2002: 18
2003: 12
2004: 15
2005: 16
2006: 15
2007: 18
2008: 21
2009: 17
2010: 17
2011: 19
2012: 15
2013: 16
2014: 17
2015: 17
2016: 20
2017: 15
2018: 19
2019: 13
2020: 6
https://herosports.com/nfl/draft-fcs-picks-year-by-year-first-rounders-2019-ajaj

[BDKJMU]

I’m a big Parker fan. URI had so much talent, it’s a shame they couldn’t put it together. Had two legit NFL receivers, a solid offensive line with Murphy, a good quarterback in Priore. Lost way to many games by one score...
Agreed on Parker.
There's a reason URI went 2-10/0-8. They had 3 NFL caliber players on offense, and a maybe above avg QB, surrounded by a lack of talent. The URI OL without Murphy (he was hurt & missed the last few games of the season) was mediocre at best. Priore could chuck the ball all over the field with the 2 stud WR, but their running game was terrible- dead last in the CAA. Their defense was atrocious- dead last in scoring and total defense in the CAA. They'll struggle to win 2 games next season.

[BisonTru]

So Furman OL Andy Godwin was signed by his hometown Jags. Godwin has been quite critical of the Jags front office moves on Twitter. They must of reviewed his twitter and apparently pulled the offer 30 minutes later. [emoji1787]

[bonarae]

All reported signings from the FCS:

https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2020-nfl-draft-free-agency-tracker-ajaj

[Go Green]

Best of luck to Dartmouth's Swann and Lalos! A shame they didn't get drafted, but hopefully they can make their teams (Bengals and Giants, respectively).

[100%GRIZ]

Not surprising Dante Olson is with the Eagles with Tim Hauck being a coach there!

[caribbeanhen]

I’m a big Parker fan. URI had so much talent, it’s a shame they couldn’t put it together. Had two legit NFL receivers, a solid offensive line with Murphy, a good quarterback in Priore. Lost way to many games by one score...

Priore was actually a downgrade from the quarterback they had in 2018

and no defense

[caribbeanhen]

Best of luck to Dartmouth's Swann and Lalos! A shame they didn't get drafted, but hopefully they can make their teams (Bengals and Giants, respectively).

I saw Swann play a few games in 2018, very impressive

if Dante Olson doesn’t make the Eagles roster I’m gonna give up scouting, He seems like a can’t miss

[Herdistheword]

I saw Swann play a few games in 2018, very impressive

if Dante Olson doesn’t make the Eagles roster I’m gonna give up scouting, He seems like a can’t miss

They drafted quite a few LB and the Eagles focus in the draft this year was clearly speed and athleticism. Dante might have a bit of a battle. There are slots available though if he shows up and the other guys fall flat. He is such a good player. He will just always have that knock for not quite being fast enough.

[Daytripper]

I’m not sure if it was just the pro days. I mean Tuszka and Robinson both showed out at the combine and their respective all-star games, but they are still being overlooked.

Pro days matter much more for FCS than FBS. FCS players may jump off the tape, but there is always the stigma of playing well against "lesser talent." Two years ago PJ Hall was a late round/free agent prospect by most. Then he blew up at his pro day and ended up going in the second round. That is kind of an exceptional example, but the point still stands.

[BisonTru]

Pro days matter much more for FCS than FBS. FCS players may jump off the tape, but there is always the stigma of playing well against "lesser talent." Two years ago PJ Hall was a late round/free agent prospect by most. Then he blew up at his pro day and ended up going in the second round. That is kind of an exceptional example, but the point still stands.

A couple things to remember sometimes a player is really high in the eyes of real NFL scouts but the internet/media scouts don’t have them very high. And you only need one team to draft you. Take Hall, maybe the raiders were the only team that had a second round grade on him or maybe 20 teams had a second round grade on him since before the season ended. We will never really know.

On pro days imo they really help any kid that didn’t get a combine invite, fbs or fcs. Every year a few kids perform way better than scouts think they’ll do. This year those kids might have been missed but they’ll all get in a camp and get a chance.

[KPSUL]

Prince Smith, New Hampshire CB one of three FCS guys signed by the Eagles as undrafted free agents. Dante Olson (LB Montana) who has been mentioned previously and Manasseh Bailey, Morgan State WR. The Eagles and Cowboys signed a whole bunch of free agents right out of the blocks. In addition to Aaron Parker, the Cowboys signed FCS guys Ron'Dell Carter JMU DE/LB, Luther Kirk S ISU red, Charlie Taumoepeau TE Portland State.
Hard to see where they will have rookie camps in May/June so this could be another challenge for FCS players making rosters. They could require players to quarantine for 14 days before attending, and then conduct it in isolation.

[Panther88]

Kirk Herbstreit doesn't mind...

He's a natural FCS'hater. His buckeye prejudism coupled w/ his B1G bias and lust of SEC/big xii serves him well in his current profession. xsmhx

I'm decently still in shock that PV's #1 (RB - ATucker) hasn't inked a UDFA deal. Given half-decent blocking, he can do wonders w/ the rock.

[POD Knows]

He's a natural FCS'hater. His buckeye prejudism coupled w/ his B1G bias and lust of SEC/big xii serves him well in his current profession. xsmhx

I'm decently still in shock that PV's #1 (RB - ATucker) hasn't inked a UDFA deal. Given half-decent blocking, he can do wonders w/ the rock.I saw that your had a couple guys get signed, any insight or thoughts on them?

[Panther88]

I saw that your had a couple guys get signed, any insight or thoughts on them?

The TE who inked the FA deal is a hybrid of sorts. He's a former RB turned TE. Has VERY light feet and excellent hands. His height may be questionable for the pure TE position. He wasn't targeted as much as he should've been, imho.

Which leads me to the QB. He has all the physical tools.

That's all I can say about that. lol (draw your conclusion from my lack of other words regarding QB) The RB is very "Tarik Cohenish" (RB@Bears) Same type build, same type explosive quickness, eludes tackles very well, etc.

Check out his video and a few #s. The OL blocking was HORRIBLE the last 2 years, imho. 5'5"/6" 180lbs of 4.3 40. I hoped staff would use him more for KR/PRs but once every 2 games he was there fielding and when he did field them, he made good things happen. Go figure...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JBeCVyKnuM

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

Alot of Maine fans feel Earnest Edwards has a legit shot to make the Rams wether at kick return or WR. Ran a 4.41 in one of the combines and has put on 20lbs.

Highlight video is fun to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIsc8mzXUUk

[caribbeanhen]

Alot of Maine fans feel Earnest Edwards has a legit shot to make the Rams wether at kick return or WR. Ran a 4.41 in one of the combines and has put 20lbs.

Highlight video is fun to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIsc8mzXUUk

he jumped out in the 2018 playoffs

good games vs Jacksonville st and Weber St

[Schism55]

Number of FCS guys drafted is definitely a downer, but expected really. Excited to see so many getting FA deals, hope they all can capitalize on these opportunities. Good luck to all these guys xthumbsupx

[Mocs123]

Nick Tiano - Chattanooga QB signed a contract with the Houston Texans.

[POD Knows]

The TE who inked the FA deal is a hybrid of sorts. He's a former RB turned TE. Has VERY light feet and excellent hands. His height may be questionable for the pure TE position. He wasn't targeted as much as he should've been, imho.

Which leads me to the QB. He has all the physical tools.

That's all I can say about that. lol (draw your conclusion from my lack of other words regarding QB) The RB is very "Tarik Cohenish" (RB@Bears) Same type build, same type explosive quickness, eludes tackles very well, etc.

Check out his video and a few #s. The OL blocking was HORRIBLE the last 2 years, imho. 5'5"/6" 180lbs of 4.3 40. I hoped staff would use him more for KR/PRs but once every 2 games he was there fielding and when he did field them, he made good things happen. Go figure...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JBeCVyKnuM
Pretty nifty, that screen pass where he cuts it across the grain for about a 40 yard gain was pretty good. NDSU has a small guy like that too, 5' 5" about 160, got in a few games but he was red shirted this years.

Did this Tucker guy get signed by anybody, I would have him returning kicks all day long.

[Derby City Duke]

Glad JMU TE Dylan Stapleton is getting a look from the Texans. Kid can block and can catch the ball.

I’m not among those who are confused why Rashad Robinson and Riley Stapleton haven’t been picked up. Robinson was not the same after his foot injury and didn’t play nearly as well as his A-A year in 2017.

FCS guys aren’t gonna overcome the off-field legal situation Stapleton had, especially in a year without pro days.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I-AA/FCS picks since the draft decreased from 12 to 7 rounds in 1993:
1993: 17
1994: 22
1995: 22
1996: 29
1997: 27
1998: 17
1999: 27
2000: 21
2001: 16
2002: 18
2003: 12
2004: 15
2005: 16
2006: 15
2007: 18
2008: 21
2009: 17
2010: 17
2011: 19
2012: 15
2013: 16
2014: 17
2015: 17
2016: 20
2017: 15
2018: 19
2019: 13
2020: 6
https://herosports.com/nfl/draft-fcs-picks-year-by-year-first-rounders-2019-ajaj

dang, one of these is not like the other !

This is somewhat telling .. and whoever speculated the lack of pro days is probably right.

For ISUr .. RB Robinson signs with Jaguars and Safety Luthor Kirk signs with Cowboys.

I really thought some team who knew his strengths would take Robinson in the late rounds, so that was disappointing. The lack of breakaway speed obviously hurt him, because he impressed in almost every other combine event and the whole Shrine Practice and Game week. Oh well, he'll still get a decent shot .. just less likely to make a game roster not being a draft choice.

[PaladinFan]

Glad JMU TE Dylan Stapleton is getting a look from the Texans. Kid can block and can catch the ball.

I’m not among those who are confused why Rashad Robinson and Riley Stapleton haven’t been picked up. Robinson was not the same after his foot injury and didn’t play nearly as well as his A-A year in 2017.

FCS guys aren’t gonna overcome the off-field legal situation Stapleton had, especially in a year without pro days.

I think it was a bad year to be a WR in the draft pool. The position group was so deep that some likely deserving candidates would be on the outside looking in.

[PaladinFan]

Just my opinion, but I do not think the NFL Draft should really be a barometer that FCS fans should concern themselves with. If a kid makes it, great. If not, the odds were stacked against them.

With the lack of pro days or opportunities to get more evaluations, I'm pretty sure the evaluators went with safer bets - they selected P5 players they've at least seen in action against top level competition.

I'd also look at this a bit more globally. Yes, the FCS is a division itself, but it really is in the same level of "mid major" football that includes the Sun Belt, MAC, etc.

[Hammerhead]

Low # of FCS draftees clearly shows that the FCS is not what is used to be and NDSU is not as good as the former powers in I-AA/FCS. Right?

[caribbeanhen]

Glad JMU TE Dylan Stapleton is getting a look from the Texans. Kid can block and can catch the ball.

I’m not among those who are confused why Rashad Robinson and Riley Stapleton haven’t been picked up. Robinson was not the same after his foot injury and didn’t play nearly as well as his A-A year in 2017.

FCS guys aren’t gonna overcome the off-field legal situation Stapleton had, especially in a year without pro days.


You mean they will let him play college but not NFL?

[Daytripper]

You mean they will let him play college but not NFL?

The risk/reward in FCS is more worth it. He would be a fringe player, at best, in the NFL. Not worth the headache. NFL teams generally only take chances on character guys if they are game changers, i.e. Antonio Brown, Kareem Hunt, Tyreek Hill, etc.

[PaladinFan]

Low # of FCS draftees clearly shows that the FCS is not what is used to be and NDSU is not as good as the former powers in I-AA/FCS. Right?

I mean, some of the programs that had draftees were former FCS programs. Those formerly would have been "FCS draftees."

NDSU is as good as many of the former powers. It's relevant most of NDSU's national championships came after most of those powers left. Not dispositive, but relevant.

[Panther88]

Pretty nifty, that screen pass where he cuts it across the grain for about a 40 yard gain was pretty good. NDSU has a small guy like that too, 5' 5" about 160, got in a few games but he was red shirted this years.

Did this Tucker guy get signed by anybody, I would have him returning kicks all day long.
Tucker hasn't received an offer that I'm aware of. He put the work in and hopefully it pays off. He graduates in a few weeks so if nothing else, he earned his degree.

[cx500d]

I mean, some of the programs that had draftees were former FCS programs. Those formerly would have been "FCS draftees."

NDSU is as good as many of the former powers. It's relevant most of NDSU's national championships came after most of those powers left. Not dispositive, but relevant.

Maybe they left because they saw the writing on the wall....

[PaladinFan]

Maybe they left because they saw the writing on the wall....

I'm not suggesting NDSU wouldn't have some titles.

There is at least reason to speculate that their unprecedented run would have been more complicated if the Bison had to deal with App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, etc. every year in the post season in addition to their annual tilt against James Madison.

[POD Knows]

I'm not suggesting NDSU wouldn't have some titles.

There is at least reason to speculate that their unprecedented run would have been more complicated if the Bison had to deal with App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, etc. every year in the post season in addition to their annual tilt against James Madison.I think NDSU is 3-0 against GSU since the move up and only one game was close but the playoff field would be better with those three teams in it.

[TheKingpin28]

I'm not suggesting NDSU wouldn't have some titles.

There is at least reason to speculate that their unprecedented run would have been more complicated if the Bison had to deal with App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, etc. every year in the post season in addition to their annual tilt against James Madison.I mean half of their titles they did play against CCU and/or GSU in the playoffs...

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[cx500d]

I mean half of their titles they did play against CCU and/or GSU in the playoffs...

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I didn't know CCU was an old-time power. They only got out of the 2nd round two times, and both of those times they met NDSU in the quarters, and we know how those ended.

[POD Knows]

I didn't know CCU was an old-time power. They only got out of the 2nd round two times, and both of those times they met NDSU in the quarters, and we know how those ended.But App State and Marshall or something. One Coastal game was fairly close, the other was a bitch slapping.

[TheKingpin28]

I didn't know CCU was an old-time power. They only got out of the 2nd round two times, and both of those times they met NDSU in the quarters, and we know how those ended.The 2nd CCU game was a hell of game though. Everytime NDSU tried to pull away Alex (cant think of his last name) and CCU would just get back into the game.

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[PaladinFan]

The 2nd CCU game was a hell of game though. Everytime NDSU tried to pull away Alex (cant think of his last name) and CCU would just get back into the game.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

It's not that NDSU wouldn't have been favorites in every game. I just do not think it's a complete non-factor that NDSU's rise to dominance also coincided with several of the division's major programs leaving for the FBS.

Those games were never played, so we'll never know. An NDSU playoff game in Boone in December would have been something to watch, though.

[POD Knows]

It's not that NDSU wouldn't have been favorites in every game. I just do not think it's a complete non-factor that NDSU's rise to dominance also coincided with several of the division's major programs leaving for the FBS.

Those games were never played, so we'll never know. An NDSU playoff game in Boone in December would have been something to watch, though.You can throw Coastal and GSU out of the argument, they were around and didn't have much luck but an App State game in Boone would have been awesome. The problem is if they had still been around the playoff game would have probably still been in Fargo.:D The possible OOC H&H games would have been cool. But alas, it was not meant to be.

[cx500d]

It's not that NDSU wouldn't have been favorites in every game. I just do not think it's a complete non-factor that NDSU's rise to dominance also coincided with several of the division's major programs leaving for the FBS.

Those games were never played, so we'll never know. An NDSU playoff game in Boone in December would have been something to watch, though.

Well, we did play two of your three example schools multiple times in the playoffs and beat them every time. It convinced them to tuck tail and run.

[PaladinFan]

You can throw Coastal and GSU out of the argument, they were around and didn't have much luck but an App State game in Boone would have been awesome. The problem is if they had still been around the playoff game would have probably still been in Fargo.:D The possible OOC H&H games would have been cool. But alas, it was not meant to be.

Absolutely not.

Georgia Southern was just coming out of one of the lowest points in program history when NDSU entered the FCS. The Eagles made a terrible coaching hire in 2006 with Brian Van Gorder. They backed it up with a bad-for-them hire of Chris Hatcher. Jeff Monken took over in 2010 - the same year NDSU became playoff eligible under Craig Bohl.

It's myopic to say you can "throw out" Georgia Southern. You cannot sit and say with a straight face that 10 years of potentially playing Georgia Southern would be the same as facing them in year 2 after major program upheaval.

[cx500d]

Absolutely not.

Georgia Southern was just coming out of one of the lowest points in program history when NDSU entered the FCS. The Eagles made a terrible coaching hire in 2006 with Brian Van Gorder. They backed it up with a bad-for-them hire of Chris Hatcher. Jeff Monken took over in 2010 - the same year NDSU became playoff eligible under Craig Bohl.

It's myopic to say you can "throw out" Georgia Southern. You cannot sit and say with a straight face that 10 years of potentially playing Georgia Southern would be the same as facing them in year 2 after major program upheaval.


38-7

[PaladinFan]

38-7

You do realize that highlighting a single game with no context would be as dumb as me in 2018 saying the South Dakota State had a superior football program to North Dakota State because they beat the Bison in both 2016 and 2017, right?

[MSUBobcat]

38-7

I assume you mean 35-7 from 2011? What about 2012? A 23-20 victory in Fargo. That's within the home field advantage margin so presumably a toss up if they had been placed in the other half of the bracket and met NDSU in Frisco. Both GS and Appy left in 2014 and went 9-3, 7-5, respectively, while NDSU did lose a game and had a few others within a score. In 2015, App went 11-2, GSU 9-4 and NDSU also lost 2 games that year. 2016 the Bison didn't win the natty. 2017 App was 9-4 but GSU was terrible. 2018 both had pretty good years (11-2 for App, 10-3 for GSU) and would definitely given NDSU all they wanted. Last year App went 13-1 en route to a top 20 final ranking. Obviously we'll never know what would have happened but it's foolhardy to think that GSU and Appy moving up wouldn't have potentially cost NDSU one or more championships. xtwocentsx

[cx500d]

You do realize that highlighting a single game with no context would be as dumb as me in 2018 saying the South Dakota State had a superior football program to North Dakota State because they beat the Bison in both 2016 and 2017, right?
Who beat who in the games that counted?

[cx500d]

I assume you mean 35-7 from 2011? What about 2012? A 23-20 victory in Fargo. That's within the home field advantage margin so presumably a toss up if they had been placed in the other half of the bracket and met NDSU in Frisco. Both GS and Appy left in 2014 and went 9-3, 7-5, respectively, while NDSU did lose a game and had a few others within a score. In 2015, App went 11-2, GSU 9-4 and NDSU also lost 2 games that year. 2016 the Bison didn't win the natty. 2017 App was 9-4 but GSU was terrible. 2018 both had pretty good years (11-2 for App, 10-3 for GSU) and would definitely given NDSU all they wanted. Last year App went 13-1 en route to a top 20 final ranking. Obviously we'll never know what would have happened but it's foolhardy to think that GSU and Appy moving up wouldn't have potentially cost NDSU one or more championships. xtwocentsx

PaladinFan knows what that score was from.... (it wasn't GSU)

[Bisonator]

Doubt much would have changed if Appy and GS had stayed in FCS but we will never know. Real question is why the rest of you schlubs have yet to pick up the baton from them.xcoffeex

[KPSUL]

FCS guys aren’t gonna overcome the off-field legal situation Stapleton had, especially in a year without pro days.

Maybe Riley Stapleton's off field antics had some effect , but I think speed may have been a bigger factor in not being drafted. Stapleton reminds me of David Ball from UNH, Circa 2006. He's a big strong kid with great hands who can out muscle college CBs and safeties. Ball dominated at the 1AA college level without great speed, but never caught on with an NFL team.

[cx500d]

Maybe Riley Stapleton's off field antics had some effect , but I think speed may have been a bigger factor in not being drafted. Stapleton reminds me of David Ball from UNH, Circa 2006. He's a big strong kid with great hands who can out muscle college CBs and safeties. Ball dominated at the 1AA college level without great speed, but never caught on with an NFL team.

And then he went on to a fairly undistinguished career in Nashville.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZr2Dao-5oU

[Derby City Duke]

Maybe Riley Stapleton's off field antics had some effect , but I think speed may have been a bigger factor in not being drafted. Stapleton reminds me of David Ball from UNH, Circa 2006. He's a big strong kid with great hands who can out muscle college CBs and safeties. Ball dominated at the 1AA college level without great speed, but never caught on with an NFL team.

Legit point. Maybe given his size he could move into TE like his brother - he’s was a good blocker as well.

[UpstateBison]

I assume you mean 35-7 from 2011? What about 2012? A 23-20 victory in Fargo. That's within the home field advantage margin so presumably a toss up if they had been placed in the other half of the bracket and met NDSU in Frisco. Both GS and Appy left in 2014 and went 9-3, 7-5, respectively, while NDSU did lose a game and had a few others within a score. In 2015, App went 11-2, GSU 9-4 and NDSU also lost 2 games that year. 2016 the Bison didn't win the natty. 2017 App was 9-4 but GSU was terrible. 2018 both had pretty good years (11-2 for App, 10-3 for GSU) and would definitely given NDSU all they wanted. Last year App went 13-1 en route to a top 20 final ranking. Obviously we'll never know what would have happened but it's foolhardy to think that GSU and Appy moving up wouldn't have potentially cost NDSU one or more championships. xtwocentsx

Your logic is comparing records when App St, GSU and CCU have 85 scholarships vs NDSU?

52-10 and 42-14.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

Your logic is comparing records when App St, GSU and CCU have 85 scholarships vs NDSU?

52-10 and 42-14.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, the logic is that several former highly successful FCS programs that were often playoff contenders (App, GSU, UMass, Texas State, Liberty, Coastal, etc.) either left the subdivision immediately before or right as NDSU became playoff eligible. That had an effect on the overall FCS landscape.

At the same time that NDSU became playoff eligible, the NCAA expanded (and subsequently watered down) the playoff field. Now undeserving teams (including Furman) were at large selections and automatic bids were given to teams from historically weak conferences.

It used to be that the playoff bubble would come down to which 8 or 9 win team inside the top 15 was left out. Now we debate which 7 win team barely inside the top 25 gets left out (a top 25 that, remember, doesn't include a handful of the powerhouse FCS programs). A 7 win barely ranked North Dakota wouldn't have even sniffed the playoff field 15 years ago much less have actually been in it.

Maybe NDSU rattles off 8 national championships in that environment. Maybe not.

[cx500d]

No, the logic is that several former highly successful FCS programs that were often playoff contenders (App, GSU, UMass, Texas State, Liberty, Coastal, etc.) either left the subdivision immediately before or right as NDSU became playoff eligible. That had an effect on the overall FCS landscape.

At the same time that NDSU became playoff eligible, the NCAA expanded (and subsequently watered down) the playoff field. Now undeserving teams (including Furman) were at large selections and automatic bids were given to teams from historically weak conferences.

It used to be that the playoff bubble would come down to which 8 or 9 win team inside the top 15 was left out. Now we debate which 7 win team barely inside the top 25 gets left out (a top 25 that, remember, doesn't include a handful of the powerhouse FCS programs). A 7 win barely ranked North Dakota wouldn't have even sniffed the playoff field 15 years ago much less have actually been in it.

Maybe NDSU rattles off 8 national championships in that environment. Maybe not.

Texas State? They haven't been relevant since Jim Wacker coached them and they played NDSU head to head. A total of 2 playoff appearances including a one and done. Liberty made exactly one playoff appearance.

[PaladinFan]

Texas State? They haven't been relevant since Jim Wacker coached them and they played NDSU head to head. A total of 2 playoff appearances including a one and done. Liberty made exactly one playoff appearance.

You realize it's not actually argument to highlight cherry pick tiny unrelated points, right?

Texas State made the semifinals in 2005 and multiple top 25 finishes during that time. You can define "relevant" however you want to.

Let's put it this way - let's say I just point to App State - a team NDSU didn't play, a program that made huge investments in their football program, and a program that is dominating a mid-major FBS conference right now. The point remains. You can nitpick all of the other programs all you want, but noticeably you don't ever mention App.

[Bisonator]

No, the logic is that several former highly successful FCS programs that were often playoff contenders (App, GSU, UMass, Texas State, Liberty, Coastal, etc.) either left the subdivision immediately before or right as NDSU became playoff eligible. That had an effect on the overall FCS landscape.

At the same time that NDSU became playoff eligible, the NCAA expanded (and subsequently watered down) the playoff field. Now undeserving teams (including Furman) were at large selections and automatic bids were given to teams from historically weak conferences.

It used to be that the playoff bubble would come down to which 8 or 9 win team inside the top 15 was left out. Now we debate which 7 win team barely inside the top 25 gets left out (a top 25 that, remember, doesn't include a handful of the powerhouse FCS programs). A 7 win barely ranked North Dakota wouldn't have even sniffed the playoff field 15 years ago much less have actually been in it.

Maybe NDSU rattles off 8 national championships in that environment. Maybe not.
Those teams left after NDSU already won 2 NC's. Doesn't matter how watered down the PO's got it still comes down to 4-6 teams every year anyway. By your own logic those 8-9 teams that might have been left out are now included. App didn't do **** in FCS since 2010. Where are the other power teams that battled those back in the day like Delaware, Montana, Nova, etc.....guess what they're still here.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Lack of pro days and team visits really hurt the small school guys. A lot of players that would have been picked on a typical year went undrafted.

It hurt some but I think the lack of 30 team visits and private workouts hurt just as much as that. There are many FCS players who went to the Senior Bowl and Combine so they got to workout and meet with teams but they were passed on.

Something to keep in mind though is that FCS is not what it once was. There are almost 30 programs who have started up and moved to FBS or moved from I-AA/FCS to FBS. Go back and look at the I-AA top 25s from the 1990s. Half of them are now FBS, 1/5 are former D2 teams like you guys, and the rest are FCS programs who have not gotten bigger and are about what they were then. The records of teams don't matter. FCS today is very watered down compared to what it was in the 1990s, especially on the east coast.

There use to be over 40 non FBS/I-A players drafted in the first 255 picks of the NFL Draft but I just don't think you will ever see 20 FCS players drafted without a bunch of G5 teams dropping back down. So I do believe it was a little worse because of the situation but the FCS does not have near the same talent as it use to. We use to see 20 small school players go to the Senior Bowl and now those numbers are cut in half.

The only FCS players not drafted that I thought would get picked are the URI OL Murphy, PSU TE Taumoepeau, and Ill St RB Robinson. I thought the SC State tackle might because of size and length but he is stiff, slow, and got abused in Mobile so that did not surprise me. I really only thought we would have about 10 FCS players picked, including surprises. So yes the numbers were a little lower because of the situation but only by 2-4 players. There are no longer 15-20, let alone 30, FCS players that are going to get drafted every year under the current CFB climate.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Those teams left after NDSU already won 2 NC's. Doesn't matter how watered down the PO's got it still comes down to 4-6 teams every year anyway. By your own logic those 8-9 teams that might have been left out are now included. App didn't do **** in FCS since 2010. Where are the other power teams that battled those back in the day like Delaware, Montana, Nova, etc.....guess what they're still here.

Bisonator,

Think about this. How good you are does not really matter in FCS compared to the NFL Draft. NDSU is now beating mostly teams who were bottom dwellers or D2 back in the 1990s but I don't think it takes away from the difficulty of winning so many titles in a row. Many of the powers have moved up. What you are not taking into account is that FCS teams get 63 scholarships. FBS teams get 85 scholarships. Every team who moves up like Liberty, App, Ga Southern, etc. took 85 more scholarships per team with them. Go look at many of the OL who go to G5 programs now and they would have been I-AA back in 2000 because they are 6'4 250 pounders who end up a 6'4 295-300 All-AAC or Sun Belt pick and get a shot in the pros. They would have been I-AA All-Americans back in the day.

Do the math on this. In the last 20 years we have seen UMASS, Liberty, App, Ga Sou, Georgia St, ODU, Charlotte, FIU, FAU, USF, WKU, and others all move up. That is 85 per team. That is a lot of potential NFL players in a recruiting class who are now going to these programs. I don't think it has really changed the mid-west and west coast much but on the east coast and southeast where the majority of the NFL talent would come from has been ravaged and watered down big time for FCS.

Look at the draft results from the 1990s and even 2000-2012. You can say some of those teams weren't title contenders their last few years in FCS but all those programs had draft picks.

These players would have likely come from I-AA back in 2005 because these teams have moved up since then.



Rd

Pick

Team
Pos

First Name
Last Name

School



3
93
Tennessee
RB
Darrynton
Evans
Appalachian State


4
107
Cincinnati
OLB
Akeem
Davis-Gaither
Appalachian State


3
102
Pittsburgh
DE
Samuel "Alex"
Highsmith
Charlotte


4
129
NY Jets
OT
Cameron
Clark
Charlotte


5
163
Chicago
CB
Kindle
Vildor
Georgia Southern


6
188
Buffalo
K
Tyler
Bass
Georgia Southern


4
142
Washington
WR
Antonio
Gandy-Golden
Liberty


6
211
Indianapolis
CB
Isaiah
Rodgers
Massachusetts




If you go back to 1990s these numbers would double.

The other big issue is the transfer portal. A lot of top players are transferring up or leaving early. Look at this year where I think 2 FCS players declared who would have gotten drafted in 2021 and then there are 2-3 others who have transferred to a P5 program like Jabril Cox that I think have a good shot next year. There are just way less scholarships and then when you combine the fact that top players are moving up the FCS totals are just going to drop.

I would not be surprised if Trey Lance looks to move up after all the media hype on him lately as well. I don't know the kid personally but because of the media I could see him or others thinking he should move up to get a fair look after seeing the FCS draft pick numbers drop like they have.

[Bisonator]

Bisonator,

Think about this. How good you are does not really matter in FCS compared to the NFL Draft. NDSU is now beating mostly teams who were bottom dwellers or D2 back in the 1990s but I don't think it takes away from the difficulty of winning so many titles in a row. Many of the powers have moved up. What you are not taking into account is that FCS teams get 63 scholarships. FBS teams get 85 scholarships. Every team who moves up like Liberty, App, Ga Southern, etc. took 85 more scholarships per team with them. Go look at many of the OL who go to G5 programs now and they would have been I-AA back in 2000 because they are 6'4 250 pounders who end up a 6'4 295-300 All-AAC or Sun Belt pick and get a shot in the pros. They would have been I-AA All-Americans back in the day.

Do the math on this. In the last 20 years we have seen UMASS, Liberty, App, Ga Sou, Georgia St, ODU, Charlotte, FIU, FAU, USF, WKU, and others all move up. That is 85 per team. That is a lot of potential NFL players in a recruiting class who are now going to these programs. I don't think it has really changed the mid-west and west coast much but on the east coast and southeast where the majority of the NFL talent would come from has been ravaged and watered down big time for FCS.

Look at the draft results from the 1990s and even 2000-2012. You can say some of those teams weren't title contenders their last few years in FCS but all those programs had draft picks.

These players would have likely come from I-AA back in 2005 because these teams have moved up since then.



Rd
Pick
Team
Pos
First Name
Last Name
School


3
93
Tennessee
RB
Darrynton
Evans
Appalachian State


4
107
Cincinnati
OLB
Akeem
Davis-Gaither
Appalachian State


3
102
Pittsburgh
DE
Samuel "Alex"
Highsmith
Charlotte


4
129
NY Jets
OT
Cameron
Clark
Charlotte


5
163
Chicago
CB
Kindle
Vildor
Georgia Southern


6
188
Buffalo
K
Tyler
Bass
Georgia Southern


4
142
Washington
WR
Antonio
Gandy-Golden
Liberty


6
211
Indianapolis
CB
Isaiah
Rodgers
Massachusetts




If you go back to 1990s these numbers would double.

The other big issue is the transfer portal. A lot of top players are transferring up or leaving early. Look at this year where I think 2 FCS players declared who would have gotten drafted in 2021 and then there are 2-3 others who have transferred to a P5 program like Jabril Cox that I think have a good shot next year. There are just way less scholarships and then when you combine the fact that top players are moving up the FCS totals are just going to drop.

I would not be surprised if Trey Lance looks to move up after all the media hype on him lately as well. I don't know the kid personally but because of the media I could see him or others thinking he should move up to get a fair look after seeing the FCS draft pick numbers drop like they have.
This topic kind of got sidetracked. I'm not talking about NFL draft picks and I don't think it really matters a whole lot to the discussion of winning FCS championships because there's plenty of teams including NDSU teams that didn't have NFL players on them that won a championship. Not to mention D2 and D3 teams with NFL players. Again there are still plenty of power teams in FCS and plenty of those have NFL players on them so I think that's a moot point to saying the FCS isn't as good as it used to be or whatever your getting at here.

[smallcollegefbfan]

This topic kind of got sidetracked. I'm not talking about NFL draft picks and I don't think it really matters a whole lot to the discussion of winning FCS championships because there's plenty of teams including NDSU teams that didn't have NFL players on them that won a championship. Not to mention D2 and D3 teams with NFL players. Again there are still plenty of power teams in FCS and plenty of those have NFL players on them so I think that's a moot point to saying the FCS isn't as good as it used to be or whatever your getting at here.

I just saw this last page and the first page. I thought people were wondering why there are less draft picks.

The FCS has power teams like NDSU, Montana, JMU, etc but my point was that many of the programs who are powers in the G5 level now were powers in FCS/I-AA from 1990-2010.

In fact go look at the title game results since 1978, when the division formed you will see many are now in FBS.

https://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fcs

Just title game participants alone that have moved on: UMASS, Boise State, Louisiana Tech, Georgia Southern, Arkansas State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, and App State.

There is still good football but if you do the math there are now more than 2,000 players in FBS than there were back in the 1980s. That is 2,000 or so scholarships that would be here but they are a level above. There are almost 30 teams who were FCS prior to 2012 or who have formed programs and are now taking scholarship players that would have gone to FCS 20 years ago. What NDSU is unreal and tough to do because I would say the same if someone in D2 or D3 has done what you have. It is still tough to do at any level when competing with teams who have same scholarships and close to same budget but the caliber of talent in FCS now is mostly what the mid and lower tier or very top of D2 use to be.

There were 49 small school players selected in the 1991 NFL Draft by pick 255. Did you know there were 9 of them selected by pick 84? Many of those guys who were I-AA or D2 at the time and got drafted would now be at a G5 program or bottom tier of P5s.

[PaladinFan]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

This isn't about taking away anything from NDSU. What they've accomplished is unprecedented.

At the same point, their run through the FCS playoffs did happen to coincide with massive upheaval in college football. That isn't to say that NDSU wouldn't be every ounce as good as they are not - they probably would be - but that there would be more peer teams to to challenge them.

[lionsrking2]

I just saw this last page and the first page. I thought people were wondering why there are less draft picks.

The FCS has power teams like NDSU, Montana, JMU, etc but my point was that many of the programs who are powers in the G5 level now were powers in FCS/I-AA from 1990-2010.

In fact go look at the title game results since 1978, when the division formed you will see many are now in FBS.

https://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fcs

Just title game participants alone that have moved on: UMASS, Boise State, Louisiana Tech, Georgia Southern, Arkansas State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, and App State.

There is still good football but if you do the math there are now more than 2,000 players in FBS than there were back in the 1980s. That is 2,000 or so scholarships that would be here but they are a level above. There are almost 30 teams who were FCS prior to 2012 or who have formed programs and are now taking scholarship players that would have gone to FCS 20 years ago. What NDSU is unreal and tough to do because I would say the same if someone in D2 or D3 has done what you have. It is still tough to do at any level when competing with teams who have same scholarships and close to same budget but the caliber of talent in FCS now is mostly what the mid and lower tier or very top of D2 use to be.

There were 49 small school players selected in the 1991 NFL Draft by pick 255. Did you know there were 9 of them selected by pick 84? Many of those guys who were I-AA or D2 at the time and got drafted would now be at a G5 program or bottom tier of P5s.

That's partly it, but another factor is the advent of the internet, YouTube and HUDL and the ability for kids from obscure areas to market themselves. Before then, you had to make VHS or DVD copies and mail them out. And even before that, it was coaches passing by school and watching film in the coaches office. Due to the expense, you had to pick your spots which schools to send copies to, and had to hope they didn't get pitched or lost in the shuffle on somebody's desk. Now, it's get a link in front as many coaches as you can and hope a few watch it. But it's a lot easier for coaches to flip through HUDL & YouTube highlights than sift through hundreds of DVDs.

There will always be a few guys who slip through the cracks, but it's so much harder to hide kids these days. I've been following recruiting since the mid-late 80's, and wrote about it throughout the 90's, and it's like night and day, the numbers of FBS schools (and even FCS, D-II and NAIA) scouring the state of Louisiana. We've always had the major players in the power conferences, but now we're seeing just about every FBS school coming through. For the Louisiana FCS schools, there's no such thing as getting excited over a quality commitment during the summer, or even early fall. If they can play, or have good measurables, there's a good chance they'll get a sniff from at least one FBS school by the time November rolls around. It wasn't that way in the 80's and 90's, and even the early 2000's in a lot of cases. And haven't even touched on the summer satellite camps.

We just had a young man go No. 3 overall in the CFL draft tonight (Isaac Adeyemi-Berglund). He's from Nova Scotia. The only way we found about him is he sent Ron Roberts (now DC at Baylor) and Aaron Schwanz (now at LSU) a video link to his highlights and they just happened to watch it. They called him immediately and offered. It was his only offer and he took it, sight unseen. He turned out to be a great player for us with tremendous work ethic, not to mention a great student. Goes to show the reach of the WWW and methods of watching video instantaneously.

[PaladinFan]

That's partly it, but another factor is the advent of the internet, YouTube and HUDL and the ability for kids from obscure areas to market themselves. Before then, you had to make VHS or DVD copies and mail them out. And even before that, it was coaches passing by school and watching film in the coaches office. Due to the expense, you had to pick your spots which schools to send copies to, and had to hope they didn't get pitched or lost in the shuffle on somebody's desk. Now, it's get a link in front as many coaches as you can and hope a few watch it. But it's a lot easier for coaches to flip through HUDL & YouTube highlights than sift through hundreds of DVDs.

There will always be a few guys who slip through the cracks, but it's so much harder to hide kids these days. I've been following recruiting since the mid-late 80's, and wrote about it throughout the 90's, and it's like night and day, the numbers of FBS schools (and even FCS, D-II and NAIA) scouring the state of Louisiana. We've always had the major players in the power conferences, but now we're seeing just about every FBS school coming through. For the Louisiana FCS schools, there's no such thing as getting excited over a quality commitment during the summer, or even early fall. If they can play, or have good measurables, there's a good chance they'll get a sniff from at least one FBS school by the time November rolls around. It wasn't that way in the 80's and 90's, and even the early 2000's in a lot of cases. And haven't even touched on the summer satellite camps.

We just had a young man go No. 3 overall in the CFL draft tonight (Isaac Adeyemi-Berglund). He's from Nova Scotia. The only way we found about him is he sent Ron Roberts (now DC at Baylor) and Aaron Schwanz (now at LSU) a video link to his highlights and they just happened to watch it. They called him immediately and offered. It was his only offer and he took it, sight unseen. He turned out to be a great player for us with tremendous work ethic, not to mention a great student. Goes to show the reach of the WWW and methods of watching video instantaneously.

Recruiting has changed a lot, and I imagine modern recruiting opens access to new markets. Furman right now is casting a massive net geographically for recruits.

[lionsrking2]

Recruiting has changed a lot, and I imagine modern recruiting opens access to new markets. Furman right now is casting a massive net geographically for recruits.

No question about it. We focus on Louisiana first but our 2019 roster has kids from 16 states, ranging from Hawaii, to New York & New Jersey, plus Washington, DC and Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. In a perfect world, at least 90 percent of the roster would be within 250-300 miles from campus, but we've had some success with guys outside our natural recruiting base. We've had some misses too. There are pros and cons, but necessity + technology has allowed the world to grow smaller.

[PaladinFan]

No question about it. We focus on Louisiana first but our 2019 roster has kids from 16 states, ranging from Hawaii, to New York & New Jersey, plus Washington, DC and Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. In a perfect world, at least 90 percent of the roster would be within 250-300 miles from campus, but we've had some success with guys outside our natural recruiting base. We've had some misses too. There are pros and cons, but necessity + technology has allowed the world to grow smaller.

There is a balance. For schools in the southeast, I think they are having to get outside their comfort zone to adapt to a changing landscape.

With so many football schools packed in a large, but saturated, area for football, programs are having to think outside the box. For Furman, diving back into the Atlanta/Charlotte/Nashville/Birmingham markets (which worked well for a long time) was less useful when there are so many programs doing the same thing.

The Paladins are pushing further into non-traditional recruiting areas, especially Texas.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Those teams left after NDSU already won 2 NC's. Doesn't matter how watered down the PO's got it still comes down to 4-6 teams every year anyway. By your own logic those 8-9 teams that might have been left out are now included. App didn't do **** in FCS since 2010. Where are the other power teams that battled those back in the day like Delaware, Montana, Nova, etc.....guess what they're still here.

I actually think Paladinfan needs to go back even further. It is not just about the teams who moved up but the total number of them who did. NDSU has not been effected as much because the midwest has not seen as many teams move up. At the same time NDSU and SDSU have increased scholarship totals and gotten a little better quality player.

He brings up App but I don’t think FCS was quite the same in 2007 as it was in the early 1990s. I mean you have to look at all the east coast teams who have moved up and made FCS less competitive. There are about the same 8-9 teams at the top every year and everyone else has no shot. You use to see a 12 or 13 seed in the 16 team field make a run. Now, there are teams in the quarterfinals who would probably not even make a 20 team field if those 30 teams or so moved down to FCS. 24 is watered down already and the path to the title game does not even get hard for the top teams until the semis when they start to face each other. The first two rounds almost don’t even feel like playoffs because the top 10 teams dominate those teams for most part. Think about all the talent who would have been I-AA 15-20 years ago that in the last 10 years has been FBS. With that and the playoffs being watered down it does make a difference.

With that said, no matter the level or how much it has changed it is still very tough to do what you guys have done. I don't think you can take away from that. I just think that the early path is easier and there are certainly nowhere near the future NFL talent in the division that there was in the 1990s. Many of those who got drafted 15-25 years ago are now in the G5 level. What your team is doing is definitely tough to do but a lot of the talent playing in the bottom leagues would have been D2 20 years ago. In fact, if you look at the numbers D2 had more NFL talent back in the 90s than FCS does now. Just goes to show the talent is watered down individually and then having 24 teams instead of 16 has watered down the playoff caliber teams.

[smallcollegefbfan]

There is a balance. For schools in the southeast, I think they are having to get outside their comfort zone to adapt to a changing landscape.

With so many football schools packed in a large, but saturated, area for football, programs are having to think outside the box. For Furman, diving back into the Atlanta/Charlotte/Nashville/Birmingham markets (which worked well for a long time) was less useful when there are so many programs doing the same thing.

The Paladins are pushing further into non-traditional recruiting areas, especially Texas.

I figured with so many teams moving up you have to. There is only so much talent in the Carolinas and for you to be a top 10-15 team now you need to branch out because there is a lot less top end FCS talent in the area since many of them who went FCS 20 years ago are now in CUSA, SBC, etc.

[cx500d]

I actually think Paladinfan needs to go back even further. It is not just about the teams who moved up but the total number of them who did. NDSU has not been effected as much because the midwest has not seen as many teams move up. At the same time NDSU and SDSU have increased scholarship totals and gotten a little better quality player.

He brings up App but I don’t think FCS was quite the same in 2007 as it was in the early 1990s. I mean you have to look at all the east coast teams who have moved up and made FCS less competitive. There are about the same 8-9 teams at the top every year and everyone else has no shot. You use to see a 12 or 13 seed in the 16 team field make a run. Now, there are teams in the quarterfinals who would probably not even make a 20 team field if those 30 teams or so moved down to FCS. 24 is watered down already and the path to the title game does not even get hard for the top teams until the semis when they start to face each other. The first two rounds almost don’t even feel like playoffs because the top 10 teams dominate those teams for most part. Think about all the talent who would have been I-AA 15-20 years ago that in the last 10 years has been FBS. With that and the playoffs being watered down it does make a difference.

With that said, no matter the level or how much it has changed it is still very tough to do what you guys have done. I don't think you can take away from that. I just think that the early path is easier and there are certainly nowhere near the future NFL talent in the division that there was in the 1990s. Many of those who got drafted 15-25 years ago are now in the G5 level. What your team is doing is definitely tough to do but a lot of the talent playing in the bottom leagues would have been D2 20 years ago. In fact, if you look at the numbers D2 had more NFL talent back in the 90s than FCS does now. Just goes to show the talent is watered down individually and then having 24 teams instead of 16 has watered down the playoff caliber teams.

How about unseeded Youngstown getting to the natty and keeping it within 2 scores?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

I figured with so many teams moving up you have to. There is only so much talent in the Carolinas and for you to be a top 10-15 team now you need to branch out because there is a lot less top end FCS talent in the area since many of them who went FCS 20 years ago are now in CUSA, SBC, etc.

Generally speaking, Furman does not recruit the Carolinas as much as you might assume. Most of their efforts have historically been centered on metro areas of major Southern cities.

With the influx of programs, I think Furman was finding more competition for the same players in the old haunts. They've pushed the envelope in that regard.

[PaladinFan]

How about unseeded Youngstown getting to the natty and keeping it within 2 scores?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think that cuts against the argument that the FCS isn't as deep as it formerly was.

That YSU team, for instance, barely squeaked by the SoCon's No. 3 team in the playoffs. There were years when the SoCon was the dominant league in the FCS that the No. 3 team didn't even make the playoff field.

If the field was 16, YSU probably isn't even in it, much less playing NDSU for a title.

[cx500d]

I don't think that cuts against the argument that the FCS isn't as deep as it formerly was.

That YSU team, for instance, barely squeaked by the SoCon's No. 3 team in the playoffs. There were years when the SoCon was the dominant league in the FCS that the No. 3 team didn't even make the playoff field.

If the field was 16, YSU probably isn't even in it, much less playing NDSU for a title.

Hence my point, everybody has a chance if you are in it


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[caribbeanhen]

I don't think that cuts against the argument that the FCS isn't as deep as it formerly was.

That YSU team, for instance, barely squeaked by the SoCon's No. 3 team in the playoffs. There were years when the SoCon was the dominant league in the FCS that the No. 3 team didn't even make the playoff field.

If the field was 16, YSU probably isn't even in it, much less playing NDSU for a title.

they played JMU for the title because in JMU went up to Fargo and whipped them bison

[Derby City Duke]

JMU’s DiNucci facing even steeper odds to make the Cowgirls roster with the signing of Andy Dalton — unless Dallas expects Prescott to hold out indefinitely.

[KPSUL]

JMU’s DiNucci facing even steeper odds to make the Cowgirls roster with the signing of Andy Dalton — unless Dallas expects Prescott to hold out indefinitely.

Dalton and DiNucci, 2 QBs known for not delivering in the big games. Who's the Cowboys GM?

[Redbird 4th & short]

Good point on # of schollies going to FBS more recently.

Though many would argue, the FCS top 10-15 or so, usually falls somewhere in the top 40 to 90 of FBS. So not sure the lower 1/3rd of FBS is necessarily taking better players, though certainly are taking more players with 85 schollies. But further detracting from that point .. the players at the bottom of FBS rosters (the worst of the scholllies from 64 to 85) and in the lower 1/3rd (i.e. ranked 80 to 125) ... would not likely be sought after recruits, much less starters on top 10-15 FCS teams.

So partly valid point, but I can't imagine many of those teams are taking serious recruits from the remaining FCS teams too much at all. Anyways, according to Massey .. here are some selected years' FBS team counts since 1981.

- 1981: 137 teams .. incl SoCon, Ivy, MVC, Southland. Note, FCS had just 47 teams this year.
- 1985: 110 teams
- 1990: 107 teams
- 1995: 108 teams
- 2000: 115 teams
- 2005: 119 teams
- 2010: 120 teams
- 2015: 128 teams
- 2019: 130 teams

So FBS was relatively flat at about 110 teams from 1982 to 1998 .. .within +/2 or 3. Then started growing steadily since around 1998-2000.

[Derby City Duke]

Dalton and DiNucci, 2 QBs known for not delivering in the big games. Who's the Cowboys GM?

Probably a UNH grad :D

[cx500d]

they played JMU for the title because in JMU went up to Fargo and whipped them bison
What happened to all the other seeds and teams ranked higher than YSU going in?

[cx500d]

Dalton and DiNucci, 2 QBs known for not delivering in the big games. Who's the Cowboys GM?

Dalton is a hometown hero there since he went to TCU.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Good point on # of schollies going to FBS more recently.

Though many would argue, the FCS top 10-15 or so, usually falls somewhere in the top 40 to 90 of FBS. So not sure the lower 1/3rd of FBS is necessarily taking better players, though certainly are taking more players with 85 schollies. But further detracting from that point .. the players at the bottom of FBS rosters (the worst of the scholllies from 64 to 85) and in the lower 1/3rd (i.e. ranked 80 to 125) ... would not likely be sought after recruits, much less starters on top 10-15 FCS teams.

So partly valid point, but I can't imagine many of those teams are taking serious recruits from the remaining FCS teams too much at all. Anyways, according to Massey .. here are some selected years' FBS team counts since 1981.

- 1981: 137 teams .. incl SoCon, Ivy, MVC, Southland. Note, FCS had just 47 teams this year.
- 1985: 110 teams
- 1990: 107 teams
- 1995: 108 teams
- 2000: 115 teams
- 2005: 119 teams
- 2010: 120 teams
- 2015: 128 teams
- 2019: 130 teams

So FBS was relatively flat at about 110 teams from 1982 to 1998 .. .within +/2 or 3. Then started growing steadily since around 1998-2000.

Since the 1980s we are now seeing about 1955-2000 more players signing with FBS than signed with I-A back then each year. There are less players in youth football than back in the 2000s even. FBS, just by simple math, is taking many of those players. Schools like NDSU are in an area where they have not been thinned out nearly as much but the northeast, southeast, east coast, and even southwest has seen less and less FBS caliber players and future NFL talent falling down to FCS.

Go back and look at the NFL Draft results from the 1990s and now. FCS would have like 25-35 players drafted and now just 6-15 range. What has happened is the top end talent in this division is now signing with G5 schools and the very bottom talent use to land in D2.

When you have more and more schools in FBS and also more and more in FCS just by simple numbers you are going to have talent that would have landed in D2 in 1995 that is now landing in the FCS. You also have improved technology so there are less sleepers in the saturated areas falling down to FCS than before. ND, SD, IA, MN, etc probably sees about the same though.

[MSUBobcat]

Your logic is comparing records when App St, GSU and CCU have 85 scholarships vs NDSU?

52-10 and 42-14.


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They also PLAYED teams giving out 85 schollies. They performed well in the years they moved up (some better than others) against teams in their subdivision. It's not like they got 85 scholarships and continued playing teams with 63. Would App State (or even GSU) have prevented a natty or two going to NDSU? No one can say, obviously. But App and Georgia Southern have shown an ability to recruit even against FBS peers. Clearly, if they had stayed FCS, they wouldn't have gotten all the recruits that got them to a 13-1 record last year, but to say that they would have lost so many that it's inconceivable that they could challenge the almighty Bison is pretty arrogant. My point is that App State and GSU, traditional FCS powers, have continued being more or less successful even after moving up. Yes, they play in the Slum Blech. Yes, perhaps the quality of recruits has increased because they are now FBS instead of FCS. But it's quite plausible that them staying would have stopped one or more championships from going to Fargo.

Also, just to clarify, I'm not in any way diminishing the outstanding success the Bison have had in the 2010's. It's unprecedented and deserving of much praise, and probably a smidge of jealousy.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Since the 1980s we are now seeing about 1955-2000 more players signing with FBS than signed with I-A back then each year. There are less players in youth football than back in the 2000s even. FBS, just by simple math, is taking many of those players. Schools like NDSU are in an area where they have not been thinned out nearly as much but the northeast, southeast, east coast, and even southwest has seen less and less FBS caliber players and future NFL talent falling down to FCS.

Go back and look at the NFL Draft results from the 1990s and now. FCS would have like 25-35 players drafted and now just 6-15 range. What has happened is the top end talent in this division is now signing with G5 schools and the very bottom talent use to land in D2.

When you have more and more schools in FBS and also more and more in FCS just by simple numbers you are going to have talent that would have landed in D2 in 1995 that is now landing in the FCS. You also have improved technology so there are less sleepers in the saturated areas falling down to FCS than before. ND, SD, IA, MN, etc probably sees about the same though.
BDKJMU posted this link a few pages back: https://herosports.com/nfl/draft-fcs-picks-year-by-year-first-rounders-2019-ajaj

Well your right about the trend, but your numbers are skewed to exaggerate the decline .. according to Hero.

From 1993-2001, it ranged from 20-30, but it never once exceeded 30, much less reached 35. And since then, the range is largely 15-20 .. so about 70% of what is used to be. Since 2001, there's more years above 20, than below 15 ... so while it has declined since the 1990's, saying it is now 6 to 15 is not accurate.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I-AA/FCS picks since the draft decreased from 12 to 7 rounds in 1993:
1993: 17
1994: 22
1995: 22
1996: 29
1997: 27
1998: 17
1999: 27
2000: 21
2001: 16
2002: 18
2003: 12
2004: 15
2005: 16
2006: 15
2007: 18
2008: 21
2009: 17
2010: 17
2011: 19
2012: 15
2013: 16
2014: 17
2015: 17
2016: 20
2017: 15
2018: 19
2019: 13
2020: 6
https://herosports.com/nfl/draft-fcs-picks-year-by-year-first-rounders-2019-ajaj

Are they sure they have included all the schools that were FCS/I-AA back then? A couple things that HERO Sports did not mention. In 1993 and 1994 there were no compensatory picks. That is why the numbers fell so low. I counted 17 in 1995. I think they credit the SDSU and other schools who moved up to FCS since then. I'm not sure their numbers are completely accurate for what division those players were in at the time of the drafts in the 90s.

The thing that has been effected most is way less D2 players are getting drafted now than before. Many of them are signing in the FCS just like many of the types of players that Grambling use to get in the 80s and 90s are now landing in the FBS instead of SWAC due to academic requirement changes.

[smallcollegefbfan]

BDKJMU posted this link a few pages back: https://herosports.com/nfl/draft-fcs-picks-year-by-year-first-rounders-2019-ajaj

Well your right about the trend, but your numbers are skewed to exaggerate the decline .. according to Hero.

From 1993-2001, it ranged from 20-30, but it never once exceeded 30, much less reached 35. And since then, the range is largely 15-20 .. so about 70% of what is used to be. Since 2001, there's more years above 20, than below 15 ... so while it has declined since the 1990's, saying it is now 6 to 15 is not accurate.

They are not accurately counting players whose schools have moved up. There were over 45 back in 1991. They have to remember that UCF, Boise State, Troy, etc were all still I-AA in 1991. Example, go back and look at who was FCS back in 2014. There were 19 FCS players drafted. They are saying it was 17. Their number is wrong. In 2013 it was 19, not 16 like they have listed. They were right in 2012 but in 2011 it was 21, instead of 19 like they have listed. Their numbers are wrong in other years as well. I'm going by what division those players were in at the time of being drafted.

The NFL Combine use to invite about 35+ non I-A/FBS players total and the draft would have more than 30 total. There were around 20-30 total getting drafted for a good while. Now, we are seeing about 15 or so invited to the NFL combine and less than 20 total. If they had an accurate count of who was actually I-AA/FCS at the time the numbers have fallen a little more than they are saying.

Here are the correct numbers for FCS since 2007:

2020- 6
2019- 13
2018- 19
2017- 15
2016- 20
2015- 17
2014- 19
2013- 19
2012- 15
2011- 21
2010- 19
2009- 15
2008- 24
2007- 17

Another indicator of the talent drop is NFL Scouting Combine invites.

Here are the numbers of the last 10 years.

2020- 14
2019- 19
2018- 25
2017- 27
2016- 24
2015- 30
2014- 36
2013- 34
2012- 27
2011- 27

There were actually 33 at the combine back in 2005. We will see if the numbers change but my guess is that until several teams drop back down or drop football in FBS we would see the combine numbers more in the 12-20 range and draft numbers in the 8-15 range for all non FBS schools.