Sagarin

[OL FU]

Pre-season ranking. Not really sure what I think of Sagarin. He always rates Furman too low :)

Too lazy to post the top twenty five.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt05.htm

[Eagle_77]

Here is the Top 30 I-AA teams. If I missed someone excuse me.

69. Montana
74. Delaware
81. Villanova
85. Havard
87. Georgia Southern
88. Penn
95. William & Marry
96. Northeastern
97. UMass
98. WKU
99. James Madison
100. Furman
101. Eastern Washington
102. North Dakota St.
103. Maine
108. New Hampshire
112. Lehigh
114. Northern Iowa
115. Southern Ill.
121. Hofstra
122. Colgate
124. Cal Poly
128. Montana St
129. UC Davis
130. Wofford
131. App St
133. Northern Arizona
137. Northwestern St
138. Sam Houston St
139. Stephen F. Austin

[OL FU]

Ok, now that I have a few minutes top 25

1. Montana
2. Delaware
3. Villanova
4. Harvard
5. GSU
6. Penn
7. William and Mary
8. Northeastern
9. UMass
10.WKU
11 JMU
12. Furman
13 EWU
14.NDSU
15. Maine
16. UNH
17. Lehigh
18. UNI
19. Southern Ill
20. Hofstra
21. Colgate
22. Portland State
23. Cal Poly
24. Montana State
25. UC Davis

Some seem reasonable, the odd ones seem to be Villanova at 3, two Ivies in the top ten which I guess is not a suprise since Sagarin rated the Ivies very high last year. Northeastern and Colgate seemed to come out of nowhere.

[GannonFan]

Despite the obvious faults in Sagarin's look at IAA teams being grouped in with IA's, he still manages to come up with a decent looking ranking - it's always a bit slanted towards the A10/CAA but that's life - here are the top IAA teams that are ranked 100 or better:

69 Montana
74 Delaware
81 villanova
85 Harvard
87 Georgia Southern
88 Penn
95 William and Mary
96 Northeastern
97 UMass
98 WKU
99 JMU
100 Furman

[TigerFan17]

Despite the obvious faults in Sagarin's look at IAA teams being grouped in with IA's, he still manages to come up with a decent looking ranking - it's always a bit slanted towards the A10/CAA but that's life - here are the top IAA teams that are ranked 100 or better:

69 Montana
74 Delaware
81 villanova
85 Harvard
87 Georgia Southern
88 Penn
95 William and Mary
96 Northeastern
97 UMass
98 WKU
99 JMU
100 Furman


What A-10/CAA bias?


1 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 80.55 80.36 ( 1) 12
2 PAC-10 (A) = 79.42 79.89 ( 2) 10
3 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 78.92 78.20 ( 3) 12
4 BIG 12 (A) = 78.48 78.20 ( 4) 12
5 BIG TEN (A) = 78.17 77.61 ( 5) 11
6 BIG EAST (A) = 71.44 71.49 ( 7) 8
7 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 71.40 71.80 ( 6) 9
8 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 66.74 66.28 ( 8) 3
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 63.26 64.80 ( 9) 9
10 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 61.48 61.73 ( 10) 12
11 ATLANTIC 10 (AA)= 59.99 58.90 ( 12) 12
12 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 58.80 59.58 ( 11) 13
13 BIG SKY (AA)= 55.07 55.29 ( 13) 8
14 SUN BELT (A) = 54.35 54.33 ( 14) 8
15 GREAT WEST (AA)= 53.12 53.49 ( 15) 6
16 GATEWAY (AA)= 52.41 52.44 ( 16) 8
17 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 50.68 49.95 ( 19) 7
18 SOUTHERN (AA)= 50.48 50.25 ( 17) 8
19 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 49.20 49.97 ( 18) 8
20 PATRIOT LEAGUE (AA)= 47.17 46.52 ( 20) 7
21 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 41.71 40.98 ( 21) 9
22 MID-EASTERN (AA)= 36.74 36.11 ( 22) 9
23 SOUTHWESTERN (AA)= 33.23 31.91 ( 24) 10
24 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 32.36 32.02 ( 23) 5
25 NORTHEAST (AA)= 24.75 24.17 ( 25) 8
26 PIONEER (AA)= 21.61 22.38 ( 26) 9
27 METRO ATLANTIC (AA)= 13.59 15.62 ( 27) 5
28 I-AA INDEPENDENTS (AA)= 11.16 11.16 ( 28) 1
29 ***UNRATED*** (**)= -90.00 -90.00 ( 29) 1


:D :D

[Go...gate]

I respect Penn but have serious reservations about rating them that high until they manage to beat somebody other than an Ivy or Patriot team - and they seem to be ducking the better Patriot teams any more. They have to play somebody better than Duquesne or San Diego to warrant Top-20 status.

[GannonFan]

I respect Penn but have serious reservations about rating them that high until they manage to beat somebody other than an Ivy or Patriot team - and they seem to be ducking the better Patriot teams any more. They have to play somebody better than Duquesne or San Diego to warrant Top-20 status.

I agree - the biggest step outside of that grouping they did last year was nova, average A10 team, and they lost, at home no less. Just not enough success outside that grouping (and not playing the best Patriot teams) to think they deserve top 10 accolades.

[Pen Guin]

If I am not mistaken, Sagarin is done by a CAA/A-10 school now. What a "pile" this thing is. 9 A-10 schools in the top-25. Kind of reminds me of a few years back, when they had Delaware at #19, despite the club having something like 5 losses. He is not as bad with the ivy & pl as I have seen him in the past ... he must have felt some guilt about ignoring 90% of the country. :rolleyes:


Delaware
Villanova
William & Mary
Northeastern
UMass
James Madison
Maine
New Hampshire
Hofstra

Havard
Penn
Lehigh
Colgate

[WMTribe90]

I like Sagarin on the whole. My only critique would be that the IAA teams at the top of the rankings seem to be 5 to 10 places too high in comparison to the IA teams they are ranked above. For example, I believe JMU wound up inside the top 40 last year. That was a bit high IMO, mid-forties would have been about right.

[89Hen]

Sagarin is done by a CAA/A-10 school now
:confused: What do you mean done?

[89Hen]

You do have to love...

148 Arkansas State
151 Louisiana-Monroe
176 Buffalo
187 Fla. International
:p

[TigerFan17]

:confused: What do you mean done?

Good question. :confused:

[TigerFan17]

Dear Florida International,

Drop football.

Thanks,
Earth

:D

[Pen Guin]

He has stats students do many of his polls ... has had for some time now. My father & I were talking about that just the other day ... he is big Sagarin fan and knows which school it is that does it ... it is definately a new england school though (PL, Ivy, or CAA/A-10 I cannot remember for certain, but I sware it is A-10). I will find out which school it is and post the info. I am thinking it is UMass or MIT.

Actually some of Sagarin's other polls are very good (basketball and especially baseball).

[Go...gate]

I don't know if you can say the Sagarin Poll is "biased" to the A-10/CAA. The fact is that right now, that is the best conference top to bottom in 1-AA.

[FightinBluHen51]

I don't know if you can say the Sagarin Poll is "biased" to the A-10/CAA. The fact is that right now, that is the best conference top to bottom in 1-AA.
Eh, someone always has something to bitch about. Anywho...I love who we're ranked right behind. Not overly surprised though xlolx.



73 Navy A = 68.15 0 0 0 0.00( 0) 0 0 0 | 0 0 0 | 68.15 73 | 68.15 73
74 Delaware AA = 67.95 0 0 0 0.00( 0) 0 0 0 | 0 0 0 | 67.95 74 | 67.95 74

[Pen Guin]

I don't know if you can say the Sagarin Poll is "biased" to the A-10/CAA. The fact is that right now, that is the best conference top to bottom in 1-AA.


UD:
WEST CHESTER W 24-6
at Navy 20-34 L


Hofstra:
Marshall University 45, Hofstra University 21
Elon University 25, Hofstra University 23
Liberty University 49, Hofstra University 42


JMU:
LOCK HAVEN W 62-7
at #6 West Virginia 10-45 L
at Lehigh W 14-13


Maine:
Montana L, 27-20
Northern Colorado W, 38-0
Mississippi State W, 9-7


UMass:
Delaware State W, 51-0
Colgate W, 30-20
Boston College L, 29-7


NHU:
at Rutgers W 35-24
at Dartmouth W 45-24

NE:
CHEYNEY 71-0 W
at Navy 24-28 L
at Harvard 14-41 L


RI:
at Fordham University W 37-36
CCSU W 39-7
BROWN 13-20 L

Richmond:
North Carolina State L, 42-0
Lafayette L, 21-16
VMI W, 34-7

Towson:
Towson 41, Bowie State 7
Towson 21, Cornell 11
Towson 34, Elon 13


Nova:
BUCKNELL W 20-14
at Lehigh W 22-16
at Penn W 16-13


W&M:
North Carolina 38-49 L
at Liberty W 37-17
VMI W 42-6



Only 2 ranked OOC clubs in the entire conference's schedule, one top-10
and it was a loss.
In fact, I would say that not a single other I-AA OOC opponent (outside of
a couple from the PL & 1 from the Ivy) faced by anA-10 club,
was ranked above the lower 25% & none had a winning record.

2-8 against IA clubs

Games outside of Ivy or PL:
Liberty 1-1
VMI 2-0
Elon 1-1
Delaware St: 1-0
Northern Colorado 1-0
Montana 0-1

2004 standings:
North: 2 of 6 finished above .500
South: 4 of 6 finished above .500

That is an average of 50% above .500, sounds fairly top-heavy
to be claiming it is the best top-to-bottom conference.

Sky was at 50%
GFC had 50%
GWFC had 50%
MEAC had 45%
OVC had 50%
Southland had 50%

Seems like a fairly average conference to me.

Before you start spouting off post-season scores ... I am talking about regular season, when evrything is equal. Also, it would seem to me that any conference with 25% of the field better have at least 1 club in the final.

Sorry this came out far more negative than I had inteneded. I respect the conference ... I just don't make it the "second coming".

[89Hen]

2004 standings:
North: 2 of 6 finished above .500
South: 4 of 6 finished above .500

That is an average of 50% above .500, sounds fairly top-heavy
to be claiming it is the best top-to-bottom conference.

Sky was at 50%
GFC had 50%
GWFC had 50%
MEAC had 45%
OVC had 50%
Southland had 50%

Seems like a fairly average conference to me....
Also, it would seem to me that any conference with 25% of the field better have at least 1 club in the final.

Lot's of faulty logic in your post, but I picked out these two issues. A conference should have half the teams .500 or below. It's no secret that in an A10 vs A10 game, one A10 will win, one will lose. Most of the teams had a I-A on their schedule giving them a loss (2-8 as you point out, I'd point out that I don't think any other conference had two I-A wins last year).

Secondly, you would expect that if a conference had four teams in the playoff field they'd have one of the finalists? The Gateway had four teams in 2003 and didn't have a semifinalist. One A10 team didn't lose in the playoffs, two others lost to A10 teams.

Are you sure that you're not our favorite YSU fan who runs a certain website? :cool:

[Pen Guin]

Lot's of faulty logic in your post, but I picked out these two issues. A conference should have half the teams .500 or below. It's no secret that in an A10 vs A10 game, one A10 will win, one will lose.


really? I guess you just said it in less words than I. No matter how you say it ... the A-10 is no better than several other conferences ... top to bottom. You have your basement dwellars like the rest of them ... live with it. As far as any other conference with 2 I-AA wins, I would have to look it up, but I doubt you are the only one. Also, you are one of those that always make fun of Kent, Akron, and other MAC schools ... so do you want to brag about Rutgers and MSU?

As to your question about the 'certain fan that runs a website' ... no I am not. Although I have known him (dannyc) my whole life & I do work with him on ysupenguins.com ... occasionally.

[ChickenMan]

Hofstra:
Marshall University 45, Hofstra University 21
Elon University 25, Hofstra University 23
Liberty University 49, Hofstra University 42




Those results were from Hofstra's 2-10 season in '03. Hofstra was 2-1 in OOC games in '04.

[TigerFan17]

Those results were from Hofstra's 2-10 season in '03. Hofstra was was 2-1 in OOC games in '04.

I thought I saw somethin that wasn't right.



Also, since the majority of our schedules are played in-conference (duh.), of course there will be teams that are above and teams that are below .500. When we play each other, someone has to lose. That however, doesn't mean our conference isn't good, its just an undeniable fact that someone has to lose. Just because one A-10 team is better than another and beats them doesn't mean that the one that lost is worse than any other team out there. You can't take whats relative to conference play and apply it to the whole field of I-AA.

[GannonFan]

Only 2 ranked OOC clubs in the entire conference's schedule, one top-10
and it was a loss.
In fact, I would say that not a single other I-AA OOC opponent (outside of
a couple from the PL & 1 from the Ivy) faced by anA-10 club,
was ranked above the lower 25% & none had a winning record.

2-8 against IA clubs

Games outside of Ivy or PL:
Liberty 1-1
VMI 2-0
Elon 1-1
Delaware St: 1-0
Northern Colorado 1-0
Montana 0-1

2004 standings:
North: 2 of 6 finished above .500
South: 4 of 6 finished above .500

That is an average of 50% above .500, sounds fairly top-heavy
to be claiming it is the best top-to-bottom conference.

Sky was at 50%
GFC had 50%
GWFC had 50%
MEAC had 45%
OVC had 50%
Southland had 50%

Seems like a fairly average conference to me.

Before you start spouting off post-season scores ... I am talking about regular season, when evrything is equal. Also, it would seem to me that any conference with 25% of the field better have at least 1 club in the final.

Sorry this came out far more negative than I had inteneded. I respect the conference ... I just don't make it the "second coming".

I'm not sure how you meant any of this except as a slam against the A10. You can't take more of a negative view than you have. First of all, I don't know how you can take an objective analysis by simply dismissing the good teams from the Ivy and Patriot Leagues and then say that the rest of the opponents weren't very good - so all of a sudden the Lehigh's, Colgate's, Lafayette's, Penn's, and Harvard's don't count? I'm sure they don't as that goes against what you're trying to prove but you can't just take the good teams out of the OOC schedule when judging the OOC schedule.

As for the conference being top heavy, again, your analysis is fairly weak - you just look at whether a team finished over .500 or not and then compare that % of teams to other conferences? By your numbers, every conference is top heavy. However, just by sheer statistics, as most of the games are conference games and therefore it's an even-sum scenario (1 win, 1 loss everytime) it's expected that almost every year in every conference the number of teams over .500 should be about half the conference. That stat says absolutely nothing about top to bottom strength.

And why does all of a sudden playoffs not matter in your analysis? What's not equal in the playoffs that's equal in the regular season? There's always a home and away team so that's not different from the regular season. The A10 didn't have any extra special benefits last year as 2 of the 4 teams were on the road in the first round, and 3 of the 4 were on the road in the 2nd round. Again, it just looks like you throw out data when it doesn't suit your intended point. Everytime you do that it just looks like an anti-A10 guy trying to slam the conference rather than making an objective point.

[89Hen]

No matter how you say it ... the A-10 is no better than several other conferences ... top to bottom. You have your basement dwellars like the rest of them ... live with it. As far as any other conference with 2 I-AA wins, I would have to look it up, but I doubt you are the only one. Also, you are one of those that always make fun of Kent, Akron, and other MAC schools ... so do you want to brag about Rutgers and MSU?
You missed the point. No matter how good or bad a conference is, it will always have about an equal number of teams above and below .500 because 8 of the 11 games are against each other. Where's JohnStOnge when I need him?

Of course every conference has it's bottom teams, but bottom teams usually speak to how weak a conference is, not how strong. Three different NC teams in the last 7 years. 9 of the 12 teams have playoff wins during that same time span and 10 of 12 have made the playoffs (URI and Towson being the only missing and Towson is brand new). It all culminated last year with four teams in the show, 8 of the 15 games played won by A10 teams, and the eventual winner.

Other conferences with two I-A wins, I'll wait here for you to find another conference that did it last year.

When did I ever make fun of Kent, Akron or any other MAC school when it relates to a I-AA beating them? I relish every single I-AA victory over a I-A. I don't care if it's Buffalo or LA-Monroe or Idaho and I don't care if it's an A10 team or Gateway or MEAC team that does it.

[Pen Guin]

I understand your point completely ... looks like I understand it better than yourself. You just like to argue. Again you make the same point I did initially; thus the reason I listed the OOC results. There is absolutely nothing in the A-10 regular conference schedules that would indicate any superiority of any kind. Nothing that would indicate your top, middle, or bottom teams are any better than other conferences. More prececisely, to support the opinion brought forth, that the A-10 is the best conference from top-to bottom. At this point ... who cares is the better road to take.


"Of course every conference has it's bottom teams, but bottom teams usually speak to how weak a conference is, not how strong."

I could not disagree any more strongly. (these are not really my words, but I do agree with them). A good group at the top never indicates a good bottom or top ... but a strong group at the bottom always indicates an even stronger group at the top. So the bottom will always tell you how good (or bad) the top really is. This is why you could never tell how good the A-10 was when they never played more than a single OOC game until a year or 2 ago. How do you explain how the old SWAC clubs & old PL clubs would come to the post-season & be soundly defeated? Yet, they were, on more than one occasion, undefeated. The reason is because a competative conference ... means just that ... a competative conference ... not a "better" conference. Their OOC competition was weak as water, as was their conference opposition. SMS did not do very well at all ... in-conference. They lost to all three of the GFC powers. Yet, the managed to defeat a solid SHS club. Things like this indicate to you how good a conference is. Or Indiana St. defeated the previous 1 & 2 teams in the OVC, and went on to only win 2 more games. That will tell you how weak the traditional OVC is going to be & also how strong the GFC will be (or is, depending on where you are in the season) in comparison. My dad has teams in every conference that he uses to guage conference strength, they are almost all middle to bottom regulars.

[ChickenMan]

but a strong group at the bottom always indicates an even stronger group at the top. So the bottom will always tell you how good (or bad) the top really is.


I doubt that the boys from GSU would agree with that statement... ;)

[89Hen]

You just like to argue. Again you make the same point I did initially; thus the reason I listed the OOC results. There is absolutely nothing in the A-10 regular conference schedules that would indicate any superiority of any kind. Nothing that would indicate your top, middle, or bottom teams are any better than other conferences....

a strong group at the bottom always indicates an even stronger group at the top.

YOU brought the .500 arguement, not me. YOU tried to show that the A10 wasn't strong by making the arguement that half of their teams were .500 or worse. That arguement is completely moot, which was my point. Thanks for proving it again. :cool:

A strong group at the bottom would indicate stronger group at the top, but as YOU pointed out, all conference have their bottom feeders. Are you really going to try to make an arguement that the Gateway was as strong as the A10 last year because SMS beat SHS in the second game of the season (one week after squeaking by Drake) and Indiana State beat some OVC teams? That's rich. What next, SIU's win over William Penn? UNI's over Mankato? YSU's over Slippery Rock? Exactly how many I-A's and I-AA playoff teams did the Gateway beat OOC? ONE.

SMS 33 - SHS 31
Hampton 40 - WIU 20
SHS 54 - WKU 24
EWU 35 - SIU 31

[WMTribe90]

Maine, a 4-4 team in the A10 beat MSU in Mississippi. MSU later beat UF at home. Let me know when a 4-4 gateway team beats a BCS school. Maine lost to runner up Montana by 7 at Montana and beat UNC 38-0. Keep in mind the seven point spread to Montana was closer than the scores of the first three rounds of the palyoffs.

Towson was 0-8 in the A-10, but 3-0 OOC. They handily crushed Elon from the SoCon 34-13. The previous year they were a respectable .500 team in the PL.

NU was 4-4 in the A10 and came within 4 points of beating Navy.

Villanova was 3-5 in the A10, but beat UPenn at UPenn, Lehigh and Bucknell.

Only one team (Montana) beat an A10 team (UNH) in the playoffs. In fact, this is the only non-conference I-AA game that any of the playoff teams lost all year long.

:bang:

[GannonFan]

Gotta agree with my A10 brethren - actually when you look closer at the OOC games you yourself listed it's just littered with good OOC wins - you make a point about saying how you should look at the teams in the middle and the bottom to get some appreciation of how good the conference is - as WMTribe90 has shown teams that either struggled to .500 in conference were extremely successful OOC - nova played an OOC almost as hard as anyone last year and swept through Lehigh, Penn, and Bucknell, and then could only manage 3 wins in conference. You would certainly have a good case in prior years that the A10 was not as strong as some would contend, but even your own data for last year points to some fairly significant wins in the A10's corner that no other conference, the Gateway especially, can boast.

[TigerFan17]

Maine, a 4-4 team in the A10 beat MSU in Mississippi. MSU later beat UF at home. Let me know when a 4-4 gateway team beats a BCS school. Maine lost to runner up Montana by 7 at Montana and beat UNC 38-0. Keep in mind the seven point spread to Montana was closer than the scores of the first three rounds of the palyoffs.

Towson was 0-8 in the A-10, but 3-0 OOC. They handily crushed Elon from the SoCon 34-13. The previous year they were a respectable .500 team in the PL.

NU was 4-4 in the A10 and came within 4 points of beating Navy.

Villanova was 3-5 in the A10, but beat UPenn at UPenn, Lehigh and Bucknell.

Only one team (Montana) beat an A10 team (UNH) in the playoffs. In fact, this is the only non-conference I-AA game that any of the playoff teams lost all year long.

:bang:


Don't be alarmed everyone, that sound you just heard was the hitting of the nail on the head.



Also, Rhode Island went 4-8, 2-6 in conference and beat Fordham and CCSU. OOC loss came from a 6-4 Brown team.

Richmond went 3-8, 2-7 in conference but rolled over VMI. OOC losses come from I-A NC State and playoff-eventual Lafayette.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

...So the bottom will always tell you how good (or bad) the top really is. This is why you could never tell how good the A-10 was when they never played more than a single OOC game until a year or 2 ago. How do you explain how the old SWAC clubs & old PL clubs would come to the post-season & be soundly defeated...

First of all, I couldn't disagree with you more about how your crappy teams should determine how good your conference is. Let's take the "weak sister" Patriot for example. Georgetown and Holy Cross were teams with not-so-good OOC records and losing overall records, including a couple losses to mid-majors. So by that logic, PL schools don't belong on the same field as A-10 teams JMU and Delaware. Yet Lehigh nearly upset the eventual national champions last year (losing 14-13), and Lafayette went to Delaware and nearly pulled off the upset. Up 14-13 in the 4th quarter, it took a heroic Delaware drive and a late fumble recovery for a TD in order for Delaware to seal the victory 28-13.

Second, exactly how did you come up with the idea that the "old PL clubs would come to the postseason and be soundly defeated"?

1998: Lehigh 24, Richmond 23
UMass 26, Lehigh 21
2000: Lehigh 37, WIU 7
2001: Lehigh 27, Hofstra 24
2002: Fordham 29, Northeastern 24
Villanova 24, Fordham 10
2003: Colgate 19, UMass 7
Colgate 28, WIU 27
Colgate 36, FAU 24
2004: JMU 14, Lehigh 13
Delaware 28, Lafayette 13

By all means, feel free to ignore all this data. Please continue to believe that the Patriot League is an easy out in the playoffs.

[89Hen]

it took a heroic Delaware drive and a late fumble recovery for a TD in order for Delaware to seal the victory 28-13
:rolleyes:

[OL FU]

Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

it took a heroic Delaware drive and a late fumble recovery for a TD in order for Delaware to seal the victory 28-13



:rolleyes:

What? You don't consider all Delaware drives herioc? :)

[Pen Guin]

YOU brought the .500 arguement, not me. YOU tried to show that the A10 wasn't strong by making the arguement that half of their teams were .500 or worse. That arguement is completely moot, which was my point. Thanks for proving it again. :cool: ...

...A strong group at the bottom would indicate stronger group at the top, but as YOU pointed out, all conference have their bottom feeders. Are you really going to try to make an arguement that the Gateway was as strong as the A10 last year ...


The .500 was simple math, you made it into an argument. In the case of something so obvious as a team above, or below, .500 ... there is clearly nothing to agree or disagree with. Somehow you found a way... as I notice you always seem to do. Did you argue with your grade school math teachers when you missed a simple problem as well? The point is not "moot" it is obvious to anyone with a 1/2 of a brain. And as to your second point, I never said, nor even hinted that the GFC was better, the same, or worse than the A-10, or any conference for that matter. Thank you. I was taught not to honk my horn unless it is something serious ... any other time is just ignorant. That's the difference between certain schools and their fans on this board as well.

[89Hen]

The .500 was simple math, you made it into an argument. In the case of something so obvious as a team above, or below, .500 ... there is clearly nothing to agree or disagree with. Somehow you found a way... as I notice you always seem to do.
HOLY S, I'm pulling my friggin hair out here. :mad: :bang: :mad:

YOU brought in the .500 stuff as back-up to YOUR arguement that the A10 was not stronger than other conferences. When I pointed out that it was a ridiculous piece of useless information, you try to pass it off as my problem? :confused: Go back and look, everyone else here gets it.

[TigerFan17]

Any one wanna offer up a ranking of conferences of their own? Pen Guin? I'd like to see where everyone seems to think the A-10 stands.

[89Hen]

What? You don't consider all Delaware drives herioc? :)
True. However, it just sounded like the Lehigh fans of old that can't give you the score of the UMass playoff game in 1998 without going into great detail about the last drive that came up just short. :p

[89Hen]

Other conferences with two I-A wins, I'll wait here for you to find another conference that did it last year.

There were a total of six I-AA over I-A victories in 2004 out of 55 games. Three of them were over FIU which is not really even a I-A...

9/11 New Hampshire 35 - Rutgers 24
9/18 Maine 9 - Mississippi St. 7
9/25 E. Illinois 31 - E. Michigan 28

10/23 McNeese St. 30 - Florida Int'l 27
11/13 Georgia Southern 53 - Florida Int'l 32
11/20 W. Kentucky 35 - Florida Int'l 14

BTW, the A10 had two I-A wins in 2003 also
Villanova 23 - Temple 20
Delaware 21 - Navy 17

BTW, the A10 had two I-A wins in 2002 also
Villanova 37 - Rutgers 19
Northeastern 31 - Ohio 0

[TigerFan17]

GPI said:
2004
1. A10 - Atlantic 10 Conference (19.31)
2. GWFC - Great West Football Conference (29.39)
3. SLC - Southland Conference (31.32)
4. BSC - Big Sky Conference (32.11)
5. IVY - Ivy League (35.53)
6. GFC - Gateway Football Conference (36.17)
7. SOCON - Southern Conference (38.42)
8. PL - Patriot League (43.25
9. OVC - Ohio Valley Conference (52.46)
10. MEAC - Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (58.67)
11. BSOUTH - Big South Conference (59.45)
12. INDEP - Independent (62.89)
13. SWAC - Southwestern Athletic Conference (64.75)
14. NEC - Northeast Conference (70.68)
15. PFL - Pioneer Football League (73.86)
16. MAAC - Metro-Atlantic Athletic Conference (81.42)

2003
1. BSC (Big Sky Conference)
2. GFC (Gateway Football Conference)
3. A10 (Atlantic 10 Conference)
4. SLC (Southland Football Conference)
5. Ivy (Ivy League)
6. PL (Patriot League)
7. SoCon (Southern Conference)
8. Indep (I-AA Independents)
9. OVC (Ohio Valley Conference)
10. MEAC (Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference)
11. SWAC (Southwestern Athletic Conference)
12. BSouth (Big South Conference)
13. PFL (Pioneer Football League)
14. NEC (Northeastern Conference)
15. MAAC (Metro-Atlantic Athletic Conference)

http://i-aa.org/section_front.asp?arttypeid=564


Thanks Ralph...but I was more looking for people's opinions (namely Pen Guin).

BTW...you're about to break 10,000 :eek:

[GannonFan]

The .500 was simple math, you made it into an argument. In the case of something so obvious as a team above, or below, .500 ... there is clearly nothing to agree or disagree with. Somehow you found a way... as I notice you always seem to do. Did you argue with your grade school math teachers when you missed a simple problem as well? The point is not "moot" it is obvious to anyone with a 1/2 of a brain. And as to your second point, I never said, nor even hinted that the GFC was better, the same, or worse than the A-10, or any conference for that matter. Thank you. I was taught not to honk my horn unless it is something serious ... any other time is just ignorant. That's the difference between certain schools and their fans on this board as well.

Come on, man, this is a discussion - feel free to fly off the handle whenever someone disagrees with you but it doesn't do anything to advance the discussion any further - plus it just ends up demeaning whatever your original point was. A lot of people have made a lot of good points refuting your original argument that the A10, last year in particular, was just an "average conference" (your words, not mine). Would love to hear you address those points rather than making personal insults. Everyone else is keeping things civil - feel the love, man.

[TigerFan17]

and you need to change your sig! :)


Done and done, thank ya sir. I'm here to stay.