How are you affected by Virus?

[100%GRIZ]

I am retired & pretty much staying at home w/beer fridge full of Guinness! How about you?

[POD Knows]

I am retired & pretty much staying at home w/beer fridge full of Guinness! How about you?Working remotely from home on company orders, which sucks balls, I am a field based employee that traveled quite a bit, not real used to the four walls. Also have lost about 350K in personal net worth in a month but you don't lose it until you sell it, so I got that going for me, which is nice. Physical health is good, which is important, mental health is a minute by minute deal. :Dxrotatehxxbangxxchinscratchxxtroublexxdrunkyxxsm hx
All in all it is kind of a like a vacation that you spent a lot of money on and it rained every day. Good and bad.

[SUPharmacist]

Swamped in retail pharmacy. People are nervous about potential shortages of their prescription medications, which is a valid concern with global supply chains. But trying to explain we just do not have good info on which meds will be impacted and that if everyone tries to get extra on hand it will only worsen and prolong shortages that do occur is exhausting.

I am in a grocery store so in addition to all the complaints/questions about OTC meds, sanitizer, masks that we cannot keep in stock I also get to hear gripes about foods that are gone and of course toilet paper. The paper products aisle is right by the pharmacy so even when people do not complain to me directly I get to overhear the complaints. For some reason toilet paper brings out more political comments from every part of the spectrum which makes me laugh.

Good news is I am low risk and if I can stay healthy I have a solid paycheck for the duration of this. Also, despite seeing the crazies I also have a front row seat to people being good to each other. Healthy friends/family getting meds for high risk individuals, people taking reasonable amounts of items that are in low supply, and a lot of people just being patient and understanding with each other.

[TheRevSFA]

Working remotely from home on company orders, which sucks balls, I am a field based employee that traveled quite a bit, not real used to the four walls. Also have lost about 350K in personal net worth in a month but you don't lose it until you sell it, so I got that going for me, which is nice. Physical health is good, which is important, mental health is a minute by minute deal. :Dxrotatehxxbangxxchinscratchxxtroublexxdrunkyxxsm hx
All in all it is kind of a like a vacation that you spent a lot of money on and it rained every day. Good and bad.

I’m basically in the same boat with Pod, but obviously with six feet of social distancing

[Professor Chaos]

I’m basically in the same boat with Pod, but obviously with six feet of social distancing
Who's the Skipper and who's Gilligan on this boat??? :D

[Lion1983]

I have to work among everyone being a Firefighter/EMT, my wife is a Nurse. We have had to change our protocols on what and how we run emergencies to try and protect ourselves, but it's just a matter of time, I figure before all of Emergency personnel are exposed.

[POD Knows]

I have to work among everyone being a Firefighter/EMT, my wife is a Nurse. We have had to change our protocols on what and how we run emergencies to try and protect ourselves, but it's just a matter of time, I figure before all of Emergency personnel are exposed.Bravo and a big thanks to you and yours. You and you wife have two of the most important and essential jobs in the country. xsalutex

[TheRevSFA]

Who's the Skipper and who's Gilligan on this boat??? :D

POD is Mary Ann

[SUPharmacist]

I have to work among everyone being a Firefighter/EMT, my wife is a Nurse. We have had to change our protocols on what and how we run emergencies to try and protect ourselves, but it's just a matter of time, I figure before all of Emergency personnel are exposed.

Good luck to you both, as you say hard to avoid it in those fields. Hopefully you both would be minor cases if you do get exposed, but I am sure there is also a lot of anxiety that you could be carrying it to high risk patients you are caring for. Take care of yourselves and thanks for the hard work.

[POD Knows]

POD is Mary AnnThat would be good, then I could see her naked.:D

[caribbeanhen]

Working remotely from home on company orders, which sucks balls, I am a field based employee that traveled quite a bit, not real used to the four walls. Also have lost about 350K in personal net worth in a month but you don't lose it until you sell it, so I got that going for me, which is nice. Physical health is good, which is important, mental health is a minute by minute deal. :Dxrotatehxxbangxxchinscratchxxtroublexxdrunkyxxsm hx
All in all it is kind of a like a vacation that you spent a lot of money on and it rained every day. Good and bad.

stuck inside these four walls

Sent inside and forever

Never seeing no one nice again

[POD Knows]

stuck inside these four walls

Sent inside and forever

Never seeing no one nice again
Damn it, now I have that stupid song in my head along with the million other things banging around up there.

Think of songs about walls, think of songs about walls, think of songs about walls. OMFG it won't go away.

[JSUSoutherner]

Can't see my girlfriend. Not allowed to go out with co-workers for lunch anymore. I have half the plane to myself on flights now.

That's pretty much it. For now.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Damn it, now I have that stupid song in my head along with the million other things banging around up there.

Think of songs about walls, think of songs about walls, think of songs about walls. OMFG it won't go away.

......."THE WALL".......BAH KANSAS.........BRAWK 'N ROLL!

[bulldog10jw]

I am retired & pretty much staying at home w/beer fridge full of Guinness! How about you?

Same. I'm retired and mostly staying home, although we will go out for a ride, just to break up the monotony.

[MR. CHICKEN]

...."ANOTHER BRICK IN THE WALL" PT 1 & 2..........BRAWK 'N ROLL!

[FormerPokeCenter]

I have to work among everyone being a Firefighter/EMT, my wife is a Nurse. We have had to change our protocols on what and how we run emergencies to try and protect ourselves, but it's just a matter of time, I figure before all of Emergency personnel are exposed.


Thank you, to you AND your wife, for your service. What you guys do right now is closely akin to storming the beaches at Normandy, while the rest of us REMFs maintain appropriate social distancing.

[MR. CHICKEN]

....RETIRED...ORDERIN' ON LINE......THINKIN' UP "WALL" SONGS.....KEEPIN' 6 FEET...FROM HENRIETTAH....DOIN' YARD WORK......WATCHIN' MAH 49-48 MONTANA TAPE....READIN' TUBBY'S BOOK.....MO' X's AN' O's.....DAN.....MAH FORMER GIRLFRIEND'S LETTERS......WHEN SERVIN' IN AIR FORCE.........WONDERIN' WHAT IT'S LIKE....TA BE CITDAWG......DESINGNIN'....OFFENSIVE SCHEME....TA THROTTLE 'NOVA.......THINKIN'...IF CHRISTMAS.....WILL BE CANCELLED.......PLAYIN' WHIFF AUDACITY.......&....MAH ION TURNTABLE.........COMIN' UP...WHIFF WAYS TA INCORPORATE "BRAWK".....IN FUTURE POSTS......COUNTIN' DUH TOILET PAPER.......WATCHIN' DUH COLLEGE KIDS...SWARM DUH BARS.......LIKE "KILLER" BEES TA DUH HIVE........DID AH MENTION....NAPS?....BRAWK 'N ROLL!

[Paladin1aa]

Retired and well off. Pension, SS, IRAs, lots of large CDs. Debt free. Health isn’t bad but wife lost a lung to cancer and has COPD in the other one. She is at a big risk. Miss all the sports cancelled. Also dining out. And have to be careful on limited trips out so I don’t bring it home to her. Discipline has been big in my life so this isn’t bad but wish it wasn’t so.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I'm trying to use the time to revamp and retool. I'm still active at the office, though I don't have walk-in business. I didn't have it before, and definitely don't have it now. I'm clearing a backlog of cases, writing reports, billing **** I forgot to bill over the last three or four months, setting up my new space and working on a couple of software projects. Instead of possibly expanding and adding staff, I took a small extra office and made a workout room, which - ostensibly - I'll have more free time to use. Maybe I'll get in better shape by the time this virus thing blows over.... I made another extra office into a dedicated equipment room for all the electronic stuff that needs to be recharged, downloaded, etc..Set up charging stations for the cameras, gps units, total station, scanner, work lights, and a freaking electric drone airforce...I swear I didn't realize just how many I had until I got them all in one room. Holy **** that escalated quickly...I need to stick a trident in that endeavor...I set up a dedicated computer in that room to handle imagery and pointcloud downloads and storage. I generated terrabytes of that **** on the regular and it's getting kinda hard to manage. Hopefully, I'll be able to get a handle on all that while the virus rages. I think this down time will actually end up making me more productive. All that **** used to be in MY office, which is why I couldn't find anything particularly quickly. "It's around here somewhere...look in that pile, over there, about six inches down..." Now, there's a place for everything and everything will soon be in it's place, if I can just remember where I designated the specific places to be. The good news is that all that stuff's in one room specifically dedicated to "stuff."

I'm trying to conduct business as usual, or as close to usual as I can...And, thankfully, I still have AGS. If I couldn't laugh at you assholes, I'm reasonably sure the virus stress would take over.

[caribbeanhen]

....RETIRED...ORDERIN' ON LINE......THINKIN' UP "WALL" SONGS.....KEEPIN' 6 FEET...FROM HENRIETTAH....DOIN' YARD WORK......WATCHIN' MAH 49-48 MONTANA TAPE....READIN' TUBBY'S BOOK.....MO' X's AN' O's.....DAN.....MAH FORMER GIRLFRIEND'S LETTERS......WHEN SERVIN' IN AIR FORCE.........WONDERIN' WHAT IT'S LIKE....TA BE CITDAWG......DESINGNIN'....OFFENSIVE SCHEME....TA THROTTLE 'NOVA.......THINKIN'...IF CHRISTMAS.....WILL BE CANCELLED.......PLAYIN' WHIFF AUDACITY.......&....MAH ION TURNTABLE.........COMIN' UP...WHIFF WAYS TA INCORPORATE "BRAWK".....IN FUTURE POSTS......COUNTIN' DUH TOILET PAPER.......WATCHIN' DUH COLLEGE KIDS...SWARM DUH BARS.......LIKE "KILLER" BEES TA DUH HIVE........DID AH MENTION....NAPS?....BRAWK 'N ROLL!

pure gold !!!

homeschool kids need no education

Virtual teacher leave those kids alone

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....POSTS ARE GETTIN' SERIOUS...AN' @ 73.......AH'D HAVE AS MUCH CHANCE.......AS UH.....VILLANOVA.....40 YARD FG......xbawlingx.....AWK!

[walliver]

I was supposed to be lounging by the pool in Orlando this week. I actually went back to work Wednesday since I didn't want to waste vacation days just to sit at home.

I will work though the situation. I won't treat COVID-19, but people will still need surgery for other things.

[ST_Lawson]

I'm just a web developer, so I can do pretty much all of my work from home, which I just started doing today.

It was pretty crazy last week for me though because there's 4 of us in our Web Services department (for pretty much the entire university web presence). One (the "boss") was at Disney World with his family last week, another was on a cruise along the coast of Mexico, and the other is something of a hypochondriac, so she wasn't in the office for the last few days anyway. It was just me to hold down the fort...while all this stuff was starting to blow up, so I had a lot of updates to FAQ pages about the university's response and whatnot regarding COVID-19. Everyone is back, but we're all working from home now. I'm 41 and in pretty good health, so I (and my immediate family) is low risk, but I worry about my parents (late 60's), my wife's parents (also late '60s), and my grandmother (89). I think they're all doing a pretty good job of staying home though.

[Bisonoline]

The only effect it has on me is the stock market. We are down in TX on a fishing trip. No restaurants have closed which is good.

[OhioHen]

The only effect it has on me is the stock market. We are down in TX on a fishing trip. No restaurants have closed which is good.

If they do close, you'll have plenty of fish to cook.

[TheKingpin28]

I am working from home doing logistics and transportation issues. Been a real giant ****ery on my end but I get to stare out my back deck door and look at nature. I probably field 10 calls a day of people panicking and trying to calm them down and reassure them all will be well.

I was supposed to be a on a flight to Huntsville AL for one of our partners down there, but our CEO cancelled all travel so I'm just chilling at home and getting work done here.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[that guy]

How many times can a person get this virus? No one seems to ask that question. It would suck to get it once then be locked down for two plus weeks then get it again. If you can get it multiple times I would think this social isolation thing might not work so well.

[JSUSoutherner]

How many times can a person get this virus? No one seems to ask that question. It would suck to get it once then be locked down for two plus weeks then get it again. If you can get it multiple times I would think this social isolation thing might not work so well.
There's been reported cases of people who have recovered getting infected again. So it's not a surefire one and done thing.

[MSUBobcat]

I have to work among everyone being a Firefighter/EMT, my wife is a Nurse. We have had to change our protocols on what and how we run emergencies to try and protect ourselves, but it's just a matter of time, I figure before all of Emergency personnel are exposed.

First, a big thanks to you and your wife. Not just during this crisis but every day.

For me personally, the outbreak (confirmed cases, anyway) hasn't hit Montana hard yet. I'm still going to work, but try to keep mostly to myself, especially with having a cold for going on 3 weeks now. Not sure if it's the same one or I caught a new one this weekend, as it had almost gone away last week. The ladyfriend is also a CPA, but they've sent everyone that can home to work. The worst effect (other than losing about a 1/3 of my 401k) is that we are pretty close to pulling the trigger on laying off our service department, so 2 office workers and about 5 service techs will be sent home. Not many people want strangers in their home and I don't like the idea of sending them into a stranger's home, either. Not looking forward to that and luckily I'm not HR, but still going to be hard.

Every take care of yourselves and loved ones. Help where you can. Don't forget to help local restaurants that are still doing delivery or takeout orders, if you have the means. I look forward to the day when normalcy returns and we can all agree to hate on the Bizun. xpeacex

[BEAR]

Governor of Arkansas just announced all public bars and restaurants are delivery or pick up only AND k-12 public schools are now out until April 17th. My son’s senior year is turning into an adventure.

[centennial]

There's been reported cases of people who have recovered getting infected again. So it's not a surefire one and done thing.

It's a RNA virus. It can mutate everytime it infects . I would think there are dozens of variants by now. Some of them will cause reinfection, some won't. Some are weaker some are stronger. The original one had reports about being more effective with Asians. Things change.

Right now; best bet is to read about anti malaria and some anti viral HIV drugs. Both combined has had some people clear in 4 days. It's in the news.

[FormerPokeCenter]

The same treatments for rheumatoid arthritis are showing to be effective with Covid Patients...including the anti-malarial drugs...anything that pushes back against the immune system and keeps it from attacking your own lungs is a good thing...

[MSUBobcat]

Governor of Arkansas just announced all public bars and restaurants are delivery or pick up only AND k-12 public schools are now out until April 17th. My son’s senior year is turning into an adventure.

Damn... you guys still had bars open?!?!? Montucky shut 'em down Monday and we're nearly always top 5 for alcohol consumption per capita. I think that was the first time most people here went, "oh ****.... this might actually be serious."

[centennial]

The same treatments for rheumatoid arthritis are showing to be effective with Covid Patients...including the anti-malarial drugs...anything that pushes back against the immune system and keeps it from attacking your own lungs is a good thing...

Lopimune is the low cost version of the HIV medication. It is available outside the US at around $100 for 50 pills (no idea what the dosage is but I would think 2-3 times a day for few days as the trials are doing). The anti malaria drugs are even cheaper, roughly $2-3 for 3 day dose.

[SUPharmacist]

The same treatments for rheumatoid arthritis are showing to be effective with Covid Patients...including the anti-malarial drugs...anything that pushes back against the immune system and keeps it from attacking your own lungs is a good thing...

Correction, some drugs that push against the immune system are helpful. There is promising data with the antimalarials like hydroxychloroquine that we predominantly use in the US for autoimmune disorders. But a lot of the biologics these patients take and the methotrexate many take seem to put them at greater risk of severe disease.

[cx500d]

Cowering in my basement safe room, sometimes transiting thought the forbidden zone to attend emergency meetings while actively eating the quarantine police

[caribbeanhen]

Correction, some drugs that push against the immune system are helpful. There is promising data with the antimalarials like hydroxychloroquine that we predominantly use in the US for autoimmune disorders. But a lot of the biologics these patients take and the methotrexate many take seem to put them at greater risk of severe disease.

when you say biologics you’re talking about the humiras and remicade?

suppress the immune system seems like a bad thing

[BisonTru]

I'm still in my mother's basement. Minimal effect. Cheetoh's got a little low, but have since got re-stocked.

[centennial]

Correction, some drugs that push against the immune system are helpful. There is promising data with the antimalarials like hydroxychloroquine that we predominantly use in the US for autoimmune disorders. But a lot of the biologics these patients take and the methotrexate many take seem to put them at greater risk of severe disease.

The HIV medication are Protease inhibitors that stop viral replication.

Chloroquine also helps preventing viral infections.



"There is evidence that chloroquine is effective when they looked at SARS in vitro with primate cells," said Dr. Len Horovitz, a pulmonologist and internist at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City. "The theory of the experiment with primate cells was that chloroquine could be for preventing viral infection or as a treatment for viral infection after it had occurred. In vitro in these primate cells, there was evidence that viral particles were significantly reduced when chloroquine was used."




Are you saying immunosuppressant drugs help with the corona? What is logic behind this? My formal education in Biochemistry and Biology aren't anywhere as good as yours so I am genuinely curious.

[cx500d]

I'm still in my mother's basement. Minimal effect. Cheetoh's got a little low, but have since got re-stocked.
I can’t get Cheetos, shelves are wiped out. Had to settle for Fritos scoops

[BisonTru]

I can’t get Cheetos, shelves are wiped out. Had to settle for Fritos scoops

That's rough. Hang in there.

[UAalum72]

Canceled next week's flight to Florida, still might've driven but today they closed the Fort Myers beaches anyway.

More annoying is being reminded ten times a day that I'm now officially old and high-risk.

I got tickets to the US Open golf this June, with admission to the Corona tent.

And February and March have so warm, I already had to pull a tick off my dog yesterday. Now I've got to worry about Corona and Lyme.
https://fmobserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/corona-2B-300x265.jpg

[SUPharmacist]

when you say biologics you’re talking about the humiras and remicade?

suppress the immune system seems like a bad thing

Those are two common biologics amongst many others. I am by no means a researcher, and predominantly I was responding to try and make the point that immunosuppressants and many of the drugs for RA and other autoimmune disorders are more of a problem than a benefit. This is why patients on these therapies are at greater risk from all kinds of viruses and bacteria all the time.

However, FormerPokeCenter is correct that immunosuppressants can tamp down the exaggerated response our immune system tends to have in severe disease. The inflammation and destruction our body causes fighting severe disease can do lots of damage to our lungs and other organ systems in general. This is one of the reasons you see steroids like prednisone used all the time in respiratory infections.

Hydroxychloroquine and other anti-malarials do alter our immune systems but are generally not considered immunosuppressants. I chose not to disagree more firmly as I know some professionals consider hydroxychloroquine immunosuppressive, and the pharmacy setting I work in I am not on the front line of critical care for these patients and I do not know everything we may be trying.

Most of the drugs they seem to be looking at for help that many of you have referred to already are antivirals we hope will be active against Coronavirus.

The other odd ball in all of this is Losartan a med predominantly used for hypertension that may be able to reduce severity and duration of infection. If this is effective I would be very concerned about supply issues as it is very common and supply has been problematic since a lot of it was recalled a while back with cancer concerns due to high levels of NDMA. I have generally been able to keep it in stock lately, but the combination versions have still been in short supply, big uptick in use cpuld be an issue.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I'm still in my mother's basement. Minimal effect. Cheetoh's got a little low, but have since got re-stocked.

Mom's clearly a trooper!

[FormerPokeCenter]

Immunosuppressants can tamp down the exaggerated response our immune system tends to have in severe disease. The inflammation and destruction our body causes fighting severe disease can do lots of damage to our lungs and other organ systems in general. This is one of the reasons you see steroids like prednisone used all the time in respiratory infections.

Hydroxychloroquine and other anti-malarials do alter our immune systems but are generally not considered immunosuppressants. I chose not to disagree more firmly as I know some professionals consider hydroxychloroquine immunosuppressive, and the pharmacy setting I work in I am not on the front line of critical care for these patients and I do not know everything we may be trying.

Most of the drugs they seem to be looking at for help that many of you have referred to already are antivirals we hope will be active against Coronavirus.

The other odd ball in all of this is Losartan a med predominantly used for hypertension that may be able to reduce severity and duration of infection. If this is effective I would be very concerned about supply issues as it is very common and supply has been problematic since a lot of it was recalled a while back with cancer concerns due to high levels of NDMA. I have generally been able to keep it in stock lately, but the combination versions have still been in short supply, big uptick in use cpuld be an issue.

Great stuff, thanks for posting....

[cx500d]

That's rough. Hang in there.
I think the chicoms had cornered the market on that orange coloring in Cheetos and in fact it has tracking markers in it that they use to track people with, that’s why you can’t get your fingers clean. Anyway, the orange stuff is made in Wuhan where they also make covid, so there was a work stoppage, which is why no Cheetos in DC

[FormerPokeCenter]

Clearly, the POTUS has a large Cheetoh stash in the bowels of the White House! I think he swims in them....because...as God Emperor...he CAN!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The only effect it has on me is the stock market. We are down in TX on a fishing trip. No restaurants have closed which is good.


Same with me.

This virus has no effect on my work or will it unless the close the interstate highways.

[caribbeanhen]

Those are two common biologics amongst many others. I am by no means a researcher, and predominantly I was responding to try and make the point that immunosuppressants and many of the drugs for RA and other autoimmune disorders are more of a problem than a benefit. This is why patients on these therapies are at greater risk from all kinds of viruses and bacteria all the time.

However, FormerPokeCenter is correct that immunosuppressants can tamp down the exaggerated response our immune system tends to have in severe disease. The inflammation and destruction our body causes fighting severe disease can do lots of damage to our lungs and other organ systems in general. This is one of the reasons you see steroids like prednisone used all the time in respiratory infections.

Hydroxychloroquine and other anti-malarials do alter our immune systems but are generally not considered immunosuppressants. I chose not to disagree more firmly as I know some professionals consider hydroxychloroquine immunosuppressive, and the pharmacy setting I work in I am not on the front line of critical care for these patients and I do not know everything we may be trying.

Most of the drugs they seem to be looking at for help that many of you have referred to already are antivirals we hope will be active against Coronavirus.

The other odd ball in all of this is Losartan a med predominantly used for hypertension that may be able to reduce severity and duration of infection. If this is effective I would be very concerned about supply issues as it is very common and supply has been problematic since a lot of it was recalled a while back with cancer concerns due to high levels of NDMA. I have generally been able to keep it in stock lately, but the combination versions have still been in short supply, big uptick in use cpuld be an issue.

wow... thank you for taking the time to post that

[Bisonoline]

Same with me.

This virus has no effect on my work or will it unless the close the interstate highways.

Oh ****--TX just ordered all restaurants to shut down indoor dining starting at 12am tomorrow. Take out only. Some will now deliver.

[TheRevSFA]

Oh ****--TX just ordered all restaurants to shut down indoor dining starting at 12am tomorrow. Take out only. Some will now deliver.

we are on day 3 of this in Galveston.

[cx500d]

we are on day 3 of this in Galveston.
DC has been doing this for a week.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I can’t get Cheetos, shelves are wiped out. Had to settle for Fritos scoops

Good and bad ... at least there's no more of this, right ?

https://img.wonderhowto.com/img/75/78/63494545470634/0/keep-your-fingers-clean-while-eating-cheetos-chocolate-chips-and-more.w1456.jpg (https://img.wonderhowto.com/img/original/75/78/63494545470634/0/634945454706347578.jpg)
Ok so maybe it is just all bad, I don't know.

[Derby City Duke]

Staying home. 58 and on a maintenance chemo formulary drug daily. We closed schools at the end of last week so I am idled in my efforts to shape 10th grade minds. I don’t realistically expect we’ll go back this year. I will put some assignment work out on our Google classroom, but as of right now all online work is non-mandatory.

Shout out to Lion83 and all healthcare workers. Appreciate you!

[JSUSoutherner]

DC has been doing this for a week.

So has Ohio.

[Bill]

Staying busy with our change over to all online classes. University I work at was not prepared to have this many classes switch over so fast...many old school faculty are lost. I'm lucky - I've taught online for a decade now. Problem is, most of our first generation students are really lost online. They need a lot of hand holding to just get through on-ground classes. This is really hard on them!

Thank God for a Verizon fios gigabit connection. I now have 6 people here...I'm teaching online, have 4 kids 9-18 now attending school online...one kid is stuck with us. Dad is Navy, stationed in Italy. Can't go home, and family can't come here!

[ming01]

Loaded up on supplies last week, so just going to work everyday and coming home. That's it. They notified me that I will be able to work from home if we have to close the office. Some wont be able to, so I lucked out there.

Missing sports, esp since today was supposed to be March Madness, but that means so little now. I live in Bismarck and ordered take out from a restaurant for dinner, with all of the bars/restaurants not allowing dine in and activities shut down, I noticed there was wayyy less traffic for typical rush hour. Crazy.

Stay safe everyone.

[UNHWildcat18]

Here at the nuke plant I am still at work seeing as our work never stops. Gotta keep the lights on. Playing a lot of fortnite at home though xdrunkyx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Staying home. 58 and on a maintenance chemo formulary drug daily. We closed schools at the end of last week so I am idled in my efforts to shape 10th grade minds. I don’t realistically expect we’ll go back this year. I will put some assignment work out on our Google classroom, but as of right now all online work is non-mandatory.

Shout out to Lion83 and all healthcare workers. Appreciate you!



You stay put with your medical treatment bud! Keep the fight going xthumbsupx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Oh ****--TX just ordered all restaurants to shut down indoor dining starting at 12am tomorrow. Take out only. Some will now deliver.



I highly doubt they would close down American semi hauling businesses. Most of our commerce is distributed by semi truck and our economy would totally collapse if they did this for any extended period of time. Its nonsense because it will not happen. All my bees are trucked on step/flat deck trailers. Many of the owner/operator guys I use say the load boards have fallen off sharply with is virus scare. I get calls from trucking companies I've never used before asking if I need them to haul my bees.

[OhioHen]

Governor of Arkansas just announced all public bars and restaurants are delivery or pick up only AND k-12 public schools are now out until April 17th. My son’s senior year is turning into an adventure.

So you can have the local bar mix up a batch of margaritas and drop them off at your house? xdrunkyx

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

Most of Maine like everywhere else is shut down. I happen to work for a manufacturer of food and medicalwares and the 500+ employees are still working. Because we produce the swab that tests the COVID-19 virus the goverment has ruled us a critical manufacturer and must remain open. If people don't want to work for fear of catching the virus we are allowing them not to but the majority are toughing it out. You cam imagine the stress with workers knowing they can't practice social distancing and having to work to still put food on the table. Luckily we are in a rural part of Maine and no known cases of the virus in our county. Stressful time for everyone be safe out therexembarrassedx

[ysubigred]

Tele working from home. Since a bunch of Colleges and University's are shut down it's very quiet. Tele Work is not as cool as it used to be xeyebrowx

God bless the first responders, medical professionals and folks with conditions making them vulnerable to this virus.

Seen an article about certain blood types that make you more susceptible to Covid-19. Fortunately mine is most resistant, although I'm no spring chicken BWAK!

[ming01]

I highly doubt they would close down American semi hauling businesses. Most of our commerce is distributed by semi truck and our economy would totally collapse if they did this for any extended period of time. Its nonsense because it will not happen. All my bees are trucked on step/flat deck trailers. Many of the owner/operator guys I use say the load boards have fallen off sharply with is virus scare. I get calls from trucking companies I've never used before asking if I need them to haul my bees.

I am familiar with LTL. No way Trump allows the shut down of trucking. It will affect some, but not all.

[PaladinFan]

Working from home. Plenty to keep me busy, which is good.

Mostly bummed that Little League baseball has shut down for a period of time. Hopefully we can pick it back up sometime.

[blackbeard]

Its been the wildest week of my 30 year work career. Trying to plan for things that have never been contemplated before, while also trying to get my office of 35-40 people equipped and organized to work from home for an extended time frame. Also fielding many panic calls and emails from scared customers. Commercial real estate business with about 1/3 of our portfolio being retail. Lots of restaurants and personal service businesses suffering greatly, have had about 40 reach out already asking for assistance.

[BEAR]

So you can have the local bar mix up a batch of margaritas and drop them off at your house? xdrunkyx

Actually...yes!

[BisonTru]

Those are two common biologics amongst many others. I am by no means a researcher, and predominantly I was responding to try and make the point that immunosuppressants and many of the drugs for RA and other autoimmune disorders are more of a problem than a benefit. This is why patients on these therapies are at greater risk from all kinds of viruses and bacteria all the time.

However, FormerPokeCenter is correct that immunosuppressants can tamp down the exaggerated response our immune system tends to have in severe disease. The inflammation and destruction our body causes fighting severe disease can do lots of damage to our lungs and other organ systems in general. This is one of the reasons you see steroids like prednisone used all the time in respiratory infections.

Hydroxychloroquine and other anti-malarials do alter our immune systems but are generally not considered immunosuppressants. I chose not to disagree more firmly as I know some professionals consider hydroxychloroquine immunosuppressive, and the pharmacy setting I work in I am not on the front line of critical care for these patients and I do not know everything we may be trying.

Most of the drugs they seem to be looking at for help that many of you have referred to already are antivirals we hope will be active against Coronavirus.

The other odd ball in all of this is Losartan a med predominantly used for hypertension that may be able to reduce severity and duration of infection. If this is effective I would be very concerned about supply issues as it is very common and supply has been problematic since a lot of it was recalled a while back with cancer concerns due to high levels of NDMA. I have generally been able to keep it in stock lately, but the combination versions have still been in short supply, big uptick in use cpuld be an issue.


It's a RNA virus. It can mutate everytime it infects . I would think there are dozens of variants by now. Some of them will cause reinfection, some won't. Some are weaker some are stronger. The original one had reports about being more effective with Asians. Things change.

Right now; best bet is to read about anti malaria and some anti viral HIV drugs. Both combined has had some people clear in 4 days. It's in the news.

I'm quoting you two because I really don't know who to ask this to, but you seem more informed medically/biologically than anyone else here. Are those clothe face mask something that could help? Or would they do little to nothing to stop a virus either entering and/or leaving infecting others???

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6194WiMTfbL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg

[FormerPokeCenter]

Most of Maine like everywhere else is shut down. I happen to work for a manufacturer of food and medicalwares and the 500+ employees are still working. Because we produce the swab that tests the COVID-19 virus the goverment has ruled us a critical manufacturer and must remain open. If people don't want to work for fear of catching the virus we are allowing them not to but the majority are toughing it out. You cam imagine the stress with workers knowing they can't practice social distancing and having to work to still put food on the table. Luckily we are in a rural part of Maine and no known cases of the virus in our county. Stressful time for everyone be safe out therexembarrassedx

God Bless you guys for what you do, and for the risk you're taking to crank out those swabs. Heroism ins't the big flashy stuff with an exciting sound track, it's going to work in a confined space to do a job that has to be done, knowing that you're at risk while you're doing it. Prayers for you, yours and your coworkers.....

[centennial]

I'm quoting you two because I really don't know who to ask this to, but you seem more informed medically/biologically than anyone else here. Are those clothe face mask something that could help? Or would they do little to nothing to stop a virus either entering and/or leaving infecting others???

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6194WiMTfbL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg

They will kinda stop community spread (so that you sneeze and cough into your own piece of cloth). They will not stop airborne virus from infecting you. For that you need N95+ mask and gloves. At the very least get a basic mask like they have for woodcutting etc. Putting on my engineering hat on, you might be able to take a cheap air filter like the ones they use with HVAC systems. Like this-

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Filtrete-600-MPR-Dust-and-Pollen-Common-20-in-x-20-in-x-1-in-Actual-19-6-in-x-19-6-in-x-0-8125-in-Electrostatic-Pleated-Air-Filter/50318555

Then use this to line inside a cloth mask on both sides. It won't be a N95 but it might give you a little protection, more protection from aerosol. Also your protection is only as good as your mask fit. If it's loose then the effectiveness decreases significantly.

I am not a medical professional, just have a science background (engineer). My 2c.

[Laker]

Tax deadline has been moved to July 15th.

[centennial]

New milder virus might be coming. Humans are adapting to the virus.

PDF alert.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.11.987222v1.full.pdf

[semobison]

I am semi retired, self employed. I do Mortgage Surveys and Location Drawings for Title Companies. With interest rates down I did twice as much work in the last two weeks as my previous best two weeks in almost 10 years. Making hay when the sun shines as they say because with rates going up last week and the uncertainty of everything I might be twiddling my thumbs a month from now!

[ASU33]

I'm now working from home and having dad school for the little ones. Their teachers put everything up on Google Classroom so it's easy to follow along. My wife is law enforcement so there's no work from home for her. I'm worried about her potential exposure to the virus due to the amount of cases that we have here in Cobb County. I had an good friend who was a DJ down in New Orleans that passed away from the virus after he was misdiagnosed with pneumonia, so that killed the young people aren't harmed by the virus theory.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I am semi retired, self employed. I do Mortgage Surveys and Location Drawings for Title Companies. With interest rates down I did twice as much work in the last two weeks as my previous best two weeks in almost 10 years. Making hay when the sun shines as they say because with rates going up last week and the uncertainty of everything I might be twiddling my thumbs a month from now!

You shoot it with a total station, and then CAD the points?

[The Yo Show]

I work in the utility industry for a major investor owned utility. I am a transmission system operator so I operate the BES (Bulk Electric System). I am going to have to live at work.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-utilities/u-s-power-industry-may-ask-key-employees-to-live-at-work-if-coronavirus-worsens-idUSKBN2171AC

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm now working from home and having dad school for the little ones. Their teachers put everything up on Google Classroom so it's easy to follow along. My wife is law enforcement so there's no work from home for her. I'm worried about her potential exposure to the virus due to the amount of cases that we have here in Cobb County. I had an good friend who was a DJ down in New Orleans that passed away from the virus after he was misdiagnosed with pneumonia, so that killed the young people aren't harmed by the virus theory.

Well I think the Cobb County number is skewed right now because they have all the people from the Diamond Cruise ship at Dobbins.

Could have changed since I last looked at the number though.

We only have 3 here in Henry County. Allegedly.


Edit: Henry County updated to six cases as I was typing.

[semobison]

You shoot it with a total station, and then CAD the points?

I have a Cad program at my home office. I try to find Property corners, measure the house and tie in the home and structures with a 200' tape and chaining pin! Surveying 101.
Great gig for an old Surveyor. I started back in the day where we used a chain and plumb bob then we got EDM's then total stations and finally GPS. The industry has sure evolved in 40 years.

[SUPharmacist]

I'm quoting you two because I really don't know who to ask this to, but you seem more informed medically/biologically than anyone else here. Are those clothe face mask something that could help? Or would they do little to nothing to stop a virus either entering and/or leaving infecting others???

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6194WiMTfbL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg

I see Centennial already responded, and I agree with him on the more basic masks. They will not protect you from getting infected from airborne virus, but if worn by infected individuals they may reduce community transmission by reducing the amount of viral particles becoming airborne. Some of what patients are coughing/sneezing/exhaling will get beyond the mask, but it will capture some of it along with the mucus/phlegm/mist which may reduce the amount that's airborne and on surfaces.

As Centennial stated an N95 mask is needed along with the face shield and gloves to ensure you are not absorbing with your eyes. Even if you have all of that and are prepared to walk around with it all the time you need to be very diligent on fitting the mask properly (facial hair can interfere), and not touching the front of the mask, proper technique for removal so you do not just transfer it to yourself when you take everything off. Some members of the public could do this just fine, but a lot will fail miserably (as do some health care professionals). Since this equipment is currently in short supply I do not think it is worth the effort unless you are dealing with a confirmed case.

Everyday at work I watch people walk around in all sorts of masks from the N95 and other medical masks down to bandanas. Very few that I see appear to be bundling a quality mask with other behaviors in a way that would be effective. The number I see walking around with the mask below their mouth around their neck is mind boggling (why did you bother). My personal favorites are the individuals that come to ask me a questions and pull the mask away from their face to talk, and the people I see pull the mask to the side so they can sneeze/cough and not get junk caught in the mask.

Do everything you can to keep your distance from people, do not touch your mouth/face/eyes and wash or sanitize your hands (if you have sanitizer) a lot. Remember if you are using your phone when you are out in public or at a store that when you get home that can also be a surface the virus is on, so wipe that down before touching it so you do not redirty hands you just washed.

For your info I do not wear gloves and a mask all day at work, but I physically wash my hands every time I enter the pharmacy from being outside of it and either wash or use hand sanitizer after every customer (my hands are in rough shape right now). After I wipe down all the surfaces/phones/keyboards/registers/door handles (wear gloves for this) in the pharmacy at the end of the night (a process that is happening repeatedly throughout the day) I wash my hands, and then before touching my keys or getting in my car I use hand sanitizer. Once I get home I wash my hands immediately and change clothes. It feels excessive and slows everything down, but the data out of Europe seems to indicate it is pretty transmissable before symptoms and I am terrified that I may infect and harm my high risk patients or a family member at home that is on long-term prednisone.

[SUPharmacist]

I'm now working from home and having dad school for the little ones. Their teachers put everything up on Google Classroom so it's easy to follow along. My wife is law enforcement so there's no work from home for her. I'm worried about her potential exposure to the virus due to the amount of cases that we have here in Cobb County. I had an good friend who was a DJ down in New Orleans that passed away from the virus after he was misdiagnosed with pneumonia, so that killed the young people aren't harmed by the virus theory.

**** I am sorry to hear you lost a friend and hope your wife stays healthy. Take care.

[Hammerhead]

I’ve worked from home for 5 years and have to get used to hearing my wife’s voice once in a while during the day since she is now working remotely. My office is in the upper half story so it’s still quiet.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I see Centennial already responded, and I agree with him on the more basic masks. They will not protect you from getting infected from airborne virus, but if worn by infected individuals they may reduce community transmission by reducing the amount of viral particles becoming airborne. Some of what patients are coughing/sneezing/exhaling will get beyond the mask, but it will capture some of it along with the mucus/phlegm/mist which may reduce the amount that's airborne and on surfaces.

As Centennial stated an N95 mask is needed along with the face shield and gloves to ensure you are not absorbing with your eyes. Even if you have all of that and are prepared to walk around with it all the time you need to be very diligent on fitting the mask properly (facial hair can interfere), and not touching the front of the mask, proper technique for removal so you do not just transfer it to yourself when you take everything off. Some members of the public could do this just fine, but a lot will fail miserably (as do some health care professionals). Since this equipment is currently in short supply I do not think it is worth the effort unless you are dealing with a confirmed case.

Everyday at work I watch people walk around in all sorts of masks from the N95 and other medical masks down to bandanas. Very few that I see appear to be bundling a quality mask with other behaviors in a way that would be effective. The number I see walking around with the mask below their mouth around their neck is mind boggling (why did you bother). My personal favorites are the individuals that come to ask me a questions and pull the mask away from their face to talk, and the people I see pull the mask to the side so they can sneeze/cough and not get junk caught in the mask.

Do everything you can to keep your distance from people, do not touch your mouth/face/eyes and wash or sanitize your hands (if you have sanitizer) a lot. Remember if you are using your phone when you are out in public or at a store that when you get home that can also be a surface the virus is on, so wipe that down before touching it so you do not redirty hands you just washed.

For your info I do not wear gloves and a mask all day at work, but I physically wash my hands every time I enter the pharmacy from being outside of it and either wash or use hand sanitizer after every customer (my hands are in rough shape right now). After I wipe down all the surfaces/phones/keyboards/registers/door handles (wear gloves for this) in the pharmacy at the end of the night (a process that is happening repeatedly throughout the day) I wash my hands, and then before touching my keys or getting in my car I use hand sanitizer. Once I get home I wash my hands immediately and change clothes. It feels excessive and slows everything down, but the data out of Europe seems to indicate it is pretty transmissable before symptoms and I am terrified that I may infect and harm my high risk patients or a family member at home that is on long-term prednisone.


Are you seeing anything about Vitamin C megadoses? I've been reading that the Chinese have been treating some patients by administering 24 grams of Vitamin C, intravenously, which is 250ish times the daily recommended value...I've seen other sources that say that Vitamin C won't help after contracting the virus, unless it's administered in the high doses, intravenously, that the Chinese are administering, but...that if you're mega dosing it before you contract any of the corona viruses, it's likely to mute the effects somewhat and help you recover faster. I've been Mega dosing it for a fairly long time...probably 15 to 20 times the daily recommended rate, but I'm seeing that it can lead to kidney stones, in addition to gastric issues.

Is there any word amongst the Pharmacy community that Vitamin C may be useful in the fight against Corvid 19?

[SUPharmacist]

Are you seeing anything about Vitamin C megadoses? I've been reading that the Chinese have been treating some patients by administering 24 grams of Vitamin C, intravenously, which is 250ish times the daily recommended value...I've seen other sources that say that Vitamin C won't help after contracting the virus, unless it's administered in the high doses, intravenously, that the Chinese are administering, but...that if you're mega dosing it before you contract any of the corona viruses, it's likely to mute the effects somewhat and help you recover faster. I've been Mega dosing it for a fairly long time...probably 15 to 20 times the daily recommended rate, but I'm seeing that it can lead to kidney stones, in addition to gastric issues.

Is there any word amongst the Pharmacy community that Vitamin C may be useful in the fight against Corvid 19?

I have not followed the current data close enough to give an informed opinion on that.

Just shooting from the hip, I am skeptical. While I wouldn't discourage patients from trying high doses in the short term (although anyone wanting to try that 24 gm outside of a critical care setting I think is crazy), I think you are just pissing out a lot of it.

Fairly recently high dose Vitamin C, Vitamin B1 and Steroids were proposed as a novel treatment for sepsis. Early data was very promising, but a larger study found no benefit. The Dr who proposed the therapy and others still feel there is a benefit as the time it takes to identify and enroll patients wipes out the chance for effectiveness in their view. In our critically ill patients this may be the case, but if we are trying to practice evidence based medicine it is hard to recommend.

Its dirt cheap, so if they wanted to throw it at every pt in the hospital and track outcomes have at it. But for the general population to prevent infection, I wouldn't want to add another item that we are going crazy over without really solid evidence. It seems like we are always chasing benefits with a lot of vitamins by looking at outcomes after the fact and trying to connect them without properly isolating other variables.

Many patients swear by Vitamin C to ward off infections or shorten the duration. It like Echinacea always proves hard to study because many use it for the common cold which usually self-resolves fairly quickly (although if they are effective I would say coronaviruses are one of the causes of the common cold). Further complicating this is the fact that it seems many of the patiens interested in these vitamin therapies are just more interested/invested in their health and their less frequent/shorter colds may be related to better diet/exercise regimens.

[FormerPokeCenter]

One of the reasons I've been megadosing Vitamin C is because of something I read several years ago about the relationship of scurvy to joint issues....So, I've had my right knee rebuilt twice, decades ago, and I'm now at the age where the knee is beginning to be a pain in my ass. I've been incredibly active until the last few years, daily does of heavy weight lifting, serious cycling, regular training for master's track & field, daily rounds of disc golf, plus playing in the odd softball and flag football leagues. But, now - say the last five years - I don't get enough regular exercise, etc., and the sedentary nature of the excessive work load I've been under have lead to a general weakening and deconditioning in the legs, at least compared to what's "normal" for me...I haven't done any heavy squats in at least five years...so, I'm starting to experience joint pain, which I thought might have been a knee reinjury, but which now mostly appears to be a misdiagnosed IT Band issue. I mean, I realize that part of it's due simply to getting older, but we don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing....

I've noticed that when I megadose Vitamin C, the joint issues seem to be lessened. And when I started adding Vitamin D to the mix, it eliminated most of the rest of the joint pain pretty quickly...Increases in working out are also having a positive effect, but the thing that surprised the heck out of me is that I haven't been sick since I started megadosing the Vitamin C. I'm generally healthy and I've never been on any prescription medication, but - man - the Vitamin C and Vitamin D regimen absolutely rock. I can tell the difference if I fall off the vitamin wagon for a week, the pain comes creeping back in...Who knows, maybe it's Psychosomatic...

I remember reading that the Ascorbic Acid in Vitamin C deactivates viruses, and it's been shown to prevent Pneumonia, which Covid 19 seems to cause. It might be totally a placebo thing and I may be wasting my time, but I feel like the Vitamin C and D regimen can't hurt and - at this point - anything that makes me feel more secure about all this is probably a good thing!

[JSUSoutherner]

One of the reasons I've been megadosing Vitamin C is because of something I read several years ago about the relationship of scurvy to joint issues....So, I've had my right knee rebuilt twice, decades ago, and I'm now at the age where the knee is beginning to be a pain in my ass. I've been incredibly active until the last few years, daily does of heavy weight lifting, serious cycling, regular training for master's track & field, daily rounds of disc golf, plus playing in the odd softball and flag football leagues. But, now - say the last five years - I don't get enough regular exercise, etc., and the sedentary nature of the excessive work load I've been under have lead to a general weakening and deconditioning in the legs, at least compared to what's "normal" for me...I haven't done any heavy squats in at least five years...so, I'm starting to experience joint pain, which I thought might have been a knee reinjury, but which now mostly appears to be a misdiagnosed IT Band issue. I mean, I realize that part of it's due simply to getting older, but we don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing....

I've noticed that when I megadose Vitamin C, the joint issues seem to be lessened. And when I started adding Vitamin D to the mix, it eliminated most of the rest of the joint pain pretty quickly...Increases in working out are also having a positive effect, but the thing that surprised the heck out of me is that I haven't been sick since I started megadosing the Vitamin C. I'm generally healthy and I've never been on any prescription medication, but - man - the Vitamin C and Vitamin D regimen absolutely rock. I can tell the difference if I fall off the vitamin wagon for a week, the pain comes creeping back in...Who knows, maybe it's Psychosomatic...

I remember reading that the Ascorbic Acid in Vitamin C deactivates viruses, and it's been shown to prevent Pneumonia, which Covid 19 seems to cause. It might be totally a placebo thing and I may be wasting my time, but I feel like the Vitamin C and D regimen can't hurt and - at this point - anything that makes me feel more secure about all this is probably a good thing!
Yeah I imagine being on your knees all the time isn't good for them. :D

[Winterborn]

Other than working from home and being grounded (I travel/fly about 60% for my job) not at all.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Yeah I imagine being on your knees all the time isn't good for them. :D

I'm pretty sure I speak for EVERYBODY when I extend my thanks for the update on what a captures a Millennial's imagination, Argyle. Couldn't have functioned without it! Will you be posting these gems on the regular, or just randomly as the revelations hit you?

[Redbird 4th & short]

Yeah I imagine being on your knees all the time isn't good for them. :D

though can enhance your career in some situations xeyebrowx

maybe too soon xconfusedx

[ming01]

When does all this honestly end? I know it will be quicker in some states.

[POD Knows]

When does all this honestly end? I know it will be quicker in some states.When a vaccine comes out and then a new virus will emerge and we will be back to square one, the die has been cast.

[TribeNomad1]

I am retired & pretty much staying at home w/beer fridge full of Guinness! How about you?

Most of my folks are now remote. I am mostly in the office with only a few others, well separated for "SD".
Since stores crazy I went to Kroger this am very early, and already busy. Shoppers in a "zone", looking straight ahead, no eye contact. Was able to speak briefly to a couple of people who were not drones, which was nice.


At work yesterday spoke to a remote worker, she told me she was lonely, lives alone, cannot visit clients, and cannot get out in the mix. This likely to get worse. She is younger, so imagine how the older people feel.

[centennial]

I got my hands on some Chloroquine today. I'll save those just in case I get sick. The anti virals are hard to get hands on/ and expensive. Vitamin D might also be useful. I megadosed 60000iu few days ago.

I have also used Anti V ECHINAMIDE for quite a while now to beat the flu. Usually within 2-3 days instead of 10 days. At the very least anecdotally it works for me and worked a few times on my ex-gf as well.

Mushrooms are another option. Red Reishi works well.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/


Agents that enhance the functioning of the host immune system could be expected to enhance health in terms of improved resistance and, thus, removal of malignant or premalignant cells. Many G. lucidum products on the market are labeled or promoted as immunomodulating agents.
There is considerable evidence to support the immunostimulating activities of G. lucidum via induction of cytokines and enhancement of immunological effector (Wang et al. 1997 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#); Zhu and Lin 2006 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#)). Different components from G. lucidum were proved to enhance the proliferation and maturation of T and B lymphocytes, splenic mononuclear cells, NK cells, and dendritic cells in culture in vitro and in animal studies in vivo (Bao et al. 2001 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#); Cao and Lin 2002 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#); Zhu, Chen, and Lin 2007 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#); Ma et al. 2008 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#)). In normal BALB/c mice, a polysaccharide-rich extract of G. lucidum promoted the proliferation of splenocytes and enhanced the activities of macrophages and NK cells, which resulted in the increase of IL-6 and IFN-γ (Chang et al. 2009 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#)). Although a commercial G. lucidum extract did not stimulate proliferation of lymphocytes, it activated the gene expression of IL-1β, IL-6, IL-10, and tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α (Mao et al. 1999 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#)). A polysaccharide fraction (F3) was shown to enhance both adaptive and innate immunities by triggering the production of cytokines IL-1, IL-6, IL-12, IFN-γ, TNF-α, and colony stimulating factors (CSFs) from mouse splenocytes (Chen et al. 2004 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#)). It was reported also that TNF-α and IL-6 production were stimulated in human and murine macrophages by G. lucidum mycelia (Kuo et al. 2006 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#)). This effect might be due to increased synthesis of nitric oxide (NO) induced by β-D-glucan (Ohno et al. 1998 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#)). These polysaccharides were also found to be highly suppressive to tumor cell proliferation in vivo while enhancing the host’s immune response (Ooi and Liu 2000 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/#)).




Also remember, while supercharging your immune system is nice there are side effects to be dealt with. Your body could manifest auto immune like responses.

Again, not a medical professional. Just my observations.

[AmsterBison]

- I'm looking and dressing more and more like a McPoyle
- Very worried about my older relatives, especially my mom and mother-in-law
- I didn't realize how much I touch my face
- We will only be leaving the house once a week for the indefinite future
- My wife is home 24/7 which I like

[POD Knows]

- I'm looking and dressing more and more like a McPoyle
- Very worried about my older relatives, especially my mom and mother-in-law
- I didn't realize how much I touch my face
- We will only be leaving the house once a week for the indefinite future
- My wife is home 24/7 which I likeAre you drinking warm milk yet. xdrunkyx

[WileECoyote06]

My wife and I are working remotely and the daycare finally closed Friday. My wife is pregnant and thus high-risk, so my family and I will be holding it down at the house for the foreseeable future. As long as the grocery store and ABC store stays open, we'll be fine.

[PAllen]

My wife and I are working remotely and the daycare finally closed Friday. My wife is pregnant and thus high-risk, so my family and I will be holding it down at the house for the foreseeable future. As long as the grocery store and ABC store stays open, we'll be fine.

Good luck man. I was just telling my wife this evening that with this not effecting dogs and kids pushing through it with relative ease, that's two less things to worry about. I don't envy your stress over a pregnant wife. At least it's your second so you won't be stressing as much as a soon to be first time dad would be.

[WestCoastAggie]

Most of Maine like everywhere else is shut down. I happen to work for a manufacturer of food and medicalwares and the 500+ employees are still working. Because we produce the swab that tests the COVID-19 virus the goverment has ruled us a critical manufacturer and must remain open. If people don't want to work for fear of catching the virus we are allowing them not to but the majority are toughing it out. You cam imagine the stress with workers knowing they can't practice social distancing and having to work to still put food on the table. Luckily we are in a rural part of Maine and no known cases of the virus in our county. Stressful time for everyone be safe out therexembarrassedx

You and your company are out here indirectly, at least, saving lives. Salute to you.

[WestCoastAggie]

I'm now working from home and having dad school for the little ones. Their teachers put everything up on Google Classroom so it's easy to follow along. My wife is law enforcement so there's no work from home for her. I'm worried about her potential exposure to the virus due to the amount of cases that we have here in Cobb County. I had an good friend who was a DJ down in New Orleans that passed away from the virus after he was misdiagnosed with pneumonia, so that killed the young people aren't harmed by the virus theory.

Sorry for your loss. 🙏🏿

[mvfcfan]

I'm a truck driver and have been stuck in New York state lately. The roads have been dead up here compared to usual. Unfortunately I have come down with a cough that is on and off for the past couple of days. I also have a headache today which might be weather related (it's raining here). Problem is that the tests aren't available and the symptoms are so vague. My symptoms come under both Covid 19 and common cold. I don't have a fever, but apparently that isn't a requirement anymore either.

I also no longer have access to decent food because every restaurant is closed and the only thing available is fast food. So unfortunately if I do catch this stupid thing I will be fighting it on junk food. Honestly about to just park it and go home. All the rest areas in Pennsylvania are now closed. I heard they opened a few up now for trucks only and put port a johns out. I'm sure those are real sanitary.

[TheRevSFA]

I'm a truck driver and have been stuck in New York state lately. The roads have been dead up here compared to usual. Unfortunately I have come down with a cough that is on and off for the past couple of days. I also have a headache today which might be weather related (it's raining here). Problem is that the tests aren't available and the symptoms are so vague. My symptoms come under both Covid 19 and common cold. I don't have a fever, but apparently that isn't a requirement anymore either.

I also no longer have access to decent food because every restaurant is closed and the only thing available is fast food. So unfortunately if I do catch this stupid thing I will be fighting it on junk food. Honestly about to just park it and go home. All the rest areas in Pennsylvania are now closed. I heard they opened a few up now for trucks only and put port a johns out. I'm sure those are real sanitary.

We have a call daily with one of our carriers and they have said the same feelings about the parking it and going home, due to the fact that the drivers can't stop places, or are subsisting on Big Macs completely.

[100%GRIZ]

I'm a truck driver and have been stuck in New York state lately. The roads have been dead up here compared to usual. Unfortunately I have come down with a cough that is on and off for the past couple of days. I also have a headache today which might be weather related (it's raining here). Problem is that the tests aren't available and the symptoms are so vague. My symptoms come under both Covid 19 and common cold. I don't have a fever, but apparently that isn't a requirement anymore either.

I also no longer have access to decent food because every restaurant is closed and the only thing available is fast food. So unfortunately if I do catch this stupid thing I will be fighting it on junk food. Honestly about to just park it and go home. All the rest areas in Pennsylvania are now closed. I heard they opened a few up now for trucks only and put port a johns out. I'm sure those are real sanitary.
Well Thanks to all who deliver the goods. It is Greatly Appreciated!

[Lion1983]

What sucks, with the pollen out, my allergies have really got the best of me. Got a sinus infection and have to work, as a firefighter/EMT. I really get looks when I have to help someone and sound the way I do at the moment. It really keeps people from wanting care. Oh well, I can only do what I can do.

My suggestion, let everyone you know, understand, if you are not in critical need, dont call 911. It will put literally thousands in harm, basically, if it's not life or death, dont call.

[WileECoyote06]

I'm now working from home and having dad school for the little ones. Their teachers put everything up on Google Classroom so it's easy to follow along. My wife is law enforcement so there's no work from home for her. I'm worried about her potential exposure to the virus due to the amount of cases that we have here in Cobb County. I had an good friend who was a DJ down in New Orleans that passed away from the virus after he was misdiagnosed with pneumonia, so that killed the young people aren't harmed by the virus theory.

DJ Black N Mild? That was a gut punch for my friends from MS and LA, and the DJ community. May he RIP.

[IBleedYellow]

My customers are really wanting to talk about Remote Desktop Services and those types of Services.

[Drblankstare]

The wife and I have both been working from home for over a week now, so far no attempted murder 😀. At least our dogs and cats seem to be enjoying the extra attention.

if you do still need to leave the house, try to do what the experts say. Keep your distance and wash your hands. The next few weeks are going to be tough, but I have no doubt we will get through it. 👍

[favorite football fan]

[Keep your distance and wash your hands.]

If a person is a germ-phobic and is anti-social, this person is in utopia.

[Bisonoline]

We have a call daily with one of our carriers and they have said the same feelings about the parking it and going home, due to the fact that the drivers can't stop places, or are subsisting on Big Macs completely.

It was Whattaburger for us again last night.

[cx500d]

It was Whattaburger for us again last night.
Don't you have fish?

[McNeese75]

It was Whattaburger for us again last night.

You ARE in high cotton, xthumbsupx

[AmsterBison]

The wife and I have both been working from home for over a week now, so far no attempted murder . At least our dogs and cats seem to be enjoying the extra attention.

if you do still need to leave the house, try to do what the experts say. Keep your distance and wash your hands. The next few weeks are going to be tough, but I have no doubt we will get through it. 

Same deal here. I'm kind of expecting to get a memo cautioning about office romances soon.

[POD Knows]

Same deal here. I'm kind of expecting to get a memo cautioning about sexual harassment soon.FYP

[favorite football fan]

I am anxiously awaiting the next headline on ESPN. Something along the lines of this:

With death and destruction circulating the globe, football considering cancelling future schedules.

AD's worried season ticket sales will dwindle in a Mad Max world.

As the world spins out of control, should student-athletes be paid?

Boosters lament stadium suites be used as make-shift infirmaries.

Deaths of millions to hurt college athletic funding.

New stadium renovations put on hold due to rioting and looting of the masses.

Worse to come for college football amid population decline due to pandemic.

Deaths of millions to affect talent pool of football players.

[Professor Chaos]

I am anxiously awaiting the next headline on ESPN. Something along the lines of this:

With death and destruction circulating the globe, football considering cancelling future schedules.

AD's worried season ticket sales will dwindle in a Mad Max world.

As the world spins out of control, should student-athletes be paid?

Boosters lament stadium suites be used as make-shift infirmaries.

Deaths of millions to hurt college athletic funding.

New stadium renovations put on hold due to rioting and looting of the masses.

Worse to come for college football amid population decline due to pandemic.

Deaths of millions to affect talent pool of football players.
You forgot "Baby Stephen A reacts to the rankings of the 10 most memorable missed FTs in Western Conference finals history"

[favorite football fan]

You forgot "Baby Stephen A reacts to the rankings of the 10 most memorable missed FTs in Western Conference finals history"

Ah yes. Let's try this one:

ESPN's Smith: Missed Laker FT's worse than Apocalypse

Despite world calamity, Lebron James still greatest: Smith says

Will fan boards return to normal after total annihilation of civilization? An ESPN Inside Edition Special

Outside the Lines: Oh hell, we're dead: an inside look at the NFL

[POD Knows]

Ah yes. Let's try this one:

ESPN's Smith: Missed Laker FT's worse than Apocalypse

Despite world calamity, Lebron James still greatest: Smith says

Will fan boards return to normal after total annihilation of civilization? An ESPN Inside Edition Special

Outside the Lines: Oh hell, we're dead: an inside look at the NFL



Skip Bayless proclaims the Dallas Cowboys the greatest sports franchise of all time in the aftermath of the elimination of all team and contact sports. He also added that Dak Prescott is a shoe in first ballot HOF'er

[favorite football fan]

Bayless: Prescott shoe-in for HOF after apocalypse

ESPN News: Controversial TV personality Skip Bayless noted today on his radio show that Dak Prescott would be a "shoe-in" for the first round of HOF voting. When asked how the HOF voting would happen after massive death and destruction of the human race how sports would be shaped, Bayless chimed in and said "pro-football cannot be killed as the upper echelon of talent will always gravitate to the supreme form of athletic talent." When pressed by more sober guests that how can football be remotely played when everyone is either dead or society operating in a survival of the fittest ala "Mad Max" world? Bayless quickly noted that, while armed with a shotgun and assault weapon from his home, the survival of the fittest is a classic example of pro-football's elite athlete. Dak has those skills and even if another game is never played, when society settles down in 350 years and we occupy our time with elite athletes, that the body of Dak's work will speak for itself.

[Bisonoline]

Don't you have fish?

Saving those in case the ****wads shut everything down. Went to walmart at 6:30 am today. You couldnt even get a can of green beans. The people had carts that were over flowing. it was ridiculous. Oh no TP. Went to another store. They came out before they opened and sad----a truck came in and we are stocking shelves.
BTW there were no paper products on the truck. WTF?????? Why send a truck at all????

[Bisonoline]

Skip Bayless proclaims the Dallas Cowboys the greatest sports franchise of all time in the aftermath of the elimination of all team and contact sports. He also added that Dak Prescott is a shoe in first ballot HOF'er


You cant fix stupid.

[centennial]

https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/costco-not-accepting-returns-on-toilet-paper-sanitizer-other-items/article_9cd563c0-5c1c-56e1-802c-fa360d4197b5.html

Serves the TP, sanitizer hoarding idiots right.

Also-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8142005/Being-obese-raises-coronavirus-risk-Medics-warn-patients-high-BMI-likely-die.html





Excess weight against chest makes it harder for muscles to draw in deep breath
Weak immune system allows COVID-19 to spread to lungs and cause pneumonia
These two factors may explain why two thirds of ICU coronavirus patients obese
Comes as coronavirus death toll in UK rises to 281 and infections sit at 5,600
Coronavirus symptoms (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8118911/Who-ask-help-coronavirus-symptoms-strike.html): what are they and should you see a doctor?




Please take this seriously if you are overweight/obese.

[centennial]

Talked to my uncle who owns a few liquor stores in TX. Said some people emptied their accounts on TP/ sanitizer/ canned good etc. Now some are coming into the stores and trying to sell sanitizer to others. A few were angry that they wouldn't give them liquor for TP rolls.

[favorite football fan]

Talked to my uncle who owns a few liquor stores in TX. Said some people emptied their accounts on TP/ sanitizer/ canned good etc. Now some are coming into the stores and trying to sell sanitizer to others. A few were angry that they wouldn't give them liquor for TP rolls.

The barter system: coming to your town soon. AnyGivenSaturday will be doing Thunderdome threads; Dr Dealgood will be webmaster and will be now known as "masterweb"; Bust A Deal, Face the Wheel.

[PAllen]

https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/costco-not-accepting-returns-on-toilet-paper-sanitizer-other-items/article_9cd563c0-5c1c-56e1-802c-fa360d4197b5.html

Serves the TP, sanitizer hoarding idiots right.

Also-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8142005/Being-obese-raises-coronavirus-risk-Medics-warn-patients-high-BMI-likely-die.html



Please take this seriously if you are overweight/obese.

I guess my timing was pretty good on losing 20 pounds (as if there's ever a bad time). Trying for another 10. At this point, none of my jeans fit and I'm not all that interested in going out and shopping for more.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Sticking to football for moment...

We may or may not be able to "flatten the curve." The virus may or may not become less of a problem when hot, humid weather returns this summer.

However, until there is a safe, effective vaccine available...probably sometime in 2021...the pandemic will in all probability stay with us, or rebound this fall. Viruses never go away; they just don't reproduce as effectively at times.

Will opening stadiums to large crowds be the responsible thing to do?

[Professor Chaos]

Sticking to football for moment...

We may or may not be able to "flatten the curve." The virus may or may not become less of a problem when hot, humid weather returns this summer.

However, until there is a safe, effective vaccine available...probably sometime in 2021...the pandemic will in all probability stay with us, or rebound this fall. Viruses never go away; they just don't reproduce as effectively at times.

Will opening stadiums to large crowds be the responsible thing to do?
Eventually we'll all be exposed to it and our bodies will develop a resistance to it whether we get it or not. More than 50% of Americans don't get a flu shot and the flu vaccine itself is usually less than 50% effective at preventing an influenza infection yet life goes on with sports and large crowds during flu season. The problem with this one is no one has been exposed to it before so our immune systems do not recognize it and therefore are less resistant to it. At some point we'll get more resistant but as to when who knows. There's also a good chance that effective anti-viral treatments are released prior to a vaccine which will reduce our susceptibility to the virus and/or reduce the severity of the symptoms if we do get it.

I mentioned it in another thread but there's no reason, IMO, to start worrying about cancelling/postponing college or pro football seasons at this point. We have plenty of time to collect more information and better assess the risks before those decisions are made.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I guess my timing was pretty good on losing 20 pounds (as if there's ever a bad time). Trying for another 10. At this point, none of my jeans fit and I'm not all that interested in going out and shopping for more.

Nice work on the weight loss.

Same for me. Went from 249 down to 217 now. Feel a lot better. Cholesterol and BP also like the weight loss!

[ASU33]

DJ Black N Mild? That was a gut punch for my friends from MS and LA, and the DJ community. May he RIP.


Yep. That's him!

[caribbeanhen]

Eventually we'll all be exposed to it and our bodies will develop a resistance to it whether we get it or not. More than 50% of Americans don't get a flu shot and the flu vaccine itself is usually less than 50% effective at preventing an influenza infection yet life goes on with sports and large crowds during flu season. The problem with this one is no one has been exposed to it before so our immune systems do not recognize it and therefore are less resistant to it. At some point we'll get more resistant but as to when who knows. There's also a good chance that effective anti-viral treatments are released prior to a vaccine which will reduce our susceptibility to the virus and/or reduce the severity of the symptoms if we do get it.

I mentioned it in another thread but there's no reason, IMO, to start worrying about cancelling/postponing college or pro football seasons at this point. We have plenty of time to collect more information and better assess the risks before those decisions are made.

Are the Bison the Corona Virus of FCS? Nobody is proven immune to those boys yet

[centennial]

Eventually we'll all be exposed to it and our bodies will develop a resistance to it whether we get it or not. More than 50% of Americans don't get a flu shot and the flu vaccine itself is usually less than 50% effective at preventing an influenza infection yet life goes on with sports and large crowds during flu season. The problem with this one is no one has been exposed to it before so our immune systems do not recognize it and therefore are less resistant to it. At some point we'll get more resistant but as to when who knows. There's also a good chance that effective anti-viral treatments are released prior to a vaccine which will reduce our susceptibility to the virus and/or reduce the severity of the symptoms if we do get it.

I mentioned it in another thread but there's no reason, IMO, to start worrying about cancelling/postponing college or pro football seasons at this point. We have plenty of time to collect more information and better assess the risks before those decisions are made.

I almost fully disagree with your post. This has too high a mortality rate and too high spread just to let it go. America will have to go to a full 4 week quarantine, we can revisit this in a week. The results are only under 2% mortality when there is adequate healthcare. It will go up to 5% or more without sufficient doctors, ventilators and drugs. Add to this Americans are unhealthy, even Italians are lot healthier on average. Other countries will not allow Americans who carry this at a high rate to come in to their countries.

The protein for the anti-virals haven't had a successful candidate till date. There are many home amateurs trying their hand at it. Even when it gets made it will be extremely expensive because we are talking about synthetic DNA/ novel proteins.

My morbid prediction is we have over 200k infected and about 1000 passing a day by the next weekend if things aren't tightened up.

As to what research is going on. This video explains it well. Well worth your 6 minutes to understand what is going on, and not to spread misinformation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=518XZrkyfFs

[Lorne_Malvo]

and not to spread misinformation.

You mean like exactly what you just did?

[centennial]

You mean like exactly what you just did?

Instead of making random claims, can you just tell me how I wrong?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Instead of making random claims, can you just tell me how I wrong?


I dont think it is as dire as you think it could be. Our best defense is our own immune system.

Some of the death number claims are outrageous IMO.

I'm more in the camp with what Professor Chaos wrote.

[Professor Chaos]

I almost fully disagree with your post. This has too high a mortality rate and too high spread just to let it go. America will have to go to a full 4 week quarantine, we can revisit this in a week. The results are only under 2% mortality when there is adequate healthcare. It will go up to 5% or more without sufficient doctors, ventilators and drugs. Add to this Americans are unhealthy, even Italians are lot healthier on average. Other countries will not allow Americans who carry this at a high rate to come in to their countries.

The protein for the anti-virals haven't had a successful candidate till date. There are many home amateurs trying their hand at it. Even when it gets made it will be extremely expensive because we are talking about synthetic DNA/ novel proteins.

My morbid prediction is we have over 200k infected and about 1000 passing a day by the next weekend if things aren't tightened up.

As to what research is going on. This video explains it well. Well worth your 6 minutes to understand what is going on, and not to spread misinformation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=518XZrkyfFs
Did I say we should just let it go? Did I say how long we will or won't have to quarantine? Did I say there's a successful anti-viral available right now? You read a lot of stuff between the lines that I flat out didn't say and that my post didn't mean. What I'm saying is everyone should relax and wait to gather more information before we start taking the axe to things that are 6 months away like college and pro football because we don't know what the situation will be in 2 weeks much less in September.

I completely disagree with people throwing **** against the wall when they talk about timelines for how long any of this will last and how many deaths/infections there will be. No one can possibly know that at this point. Now which one of us is spreading misinformation?

[centennial]

I dont think it is as dire as you think it could be. Our best defense is our own immune system.

Some of the death number claims are outrageous IMO.

I'm more in the camp with what Professor Chaos wrote.

I hope you are right.


Did I say we should just let it go? Did I say how long we will or won't have to quarantine? Did I say there's a successful anti-viral available right now? You read a lot of stuff between the lines that I flat out didn't say and that my post didn't mean. What I'm saying is everyone should relax and wait to gather more information before we start taking the axe to things that are 6 months away like college and pro football because we don't know what the situation will be in 2 weeks much less in September.

I'm completely disagree with people throwing **** against the wall when they talk about timelines for how long any of this will last and how many deaths/infections there will be. No one can possibly know that at this point. Now which one of us is spreading misinformation?



Eventually we'll all be exposed to it and our bodies will develop a resistance to it whether we get it or not.


You can acquire immunity to diseases you never had? Can you show me a link that states this



The problem with this one is no one has been exposed to it before so our immune systems do not recognize it and therefore are less resistant to it. At some point we'll get more resistant but as to when who knows.


This immunity argument needs to stop. Many many people will pass. How do you know we will acquire enough immunity? What does the influenza virus have to do with SARS or MERS virus? Where is the study where people have herd immunity to SARS or MERS? Influenza kills in the hundreds of thousands a year in the world. I remember the numbers being around 50k for the states.

We do know it is high infectious. We know it roughly kills 2% of people who have it (as long as there is sufficient healthcare). This thing has already mutated, who is to say that it doesn't get stronger and become a much more serious disease.



The death rate from seasonal flu is typically around 0.1% in the U.S., according to The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html#link-4f1410c9).
Though the death rate for COVID-19 is unclear, most research suggests it is higher than that of the seasonal flu.
In the study published Feb. 18 in the China CDC Weekly, researchers found a death rate from COVID-19 to be around 2.3% in mainland China.






I'm completely disagree with people throwing **** against the wall when they talk about timelines for how long any of this will last and how many deaths/infections there will be. No one can possibly know that at this point. Now which one of us is spreading misinformation?


Where is the timeline I gave? I stated we need a 4 week quarantine, like various other countries are doing.

Saying all of this, I didn't come here to start an argument. I apologize for being flippant. I hope that I am wrong, and you all are right. And this thing blows over soon.

[Professor Chaos]

I hope you are right.





You can acquire immunity to diseases you never had? Can you show me a link that states this



This immunity argument needs to stop. Many many people will pass. How do you know we will acquire enough immunity? What does the influenza virus have to do with SARS or MERS virus? Where is the study where people have herd immunity to SARS or MERS? Influenza kills in the hundreds of thousands a year in the world. I remember the numbers being around 50k for the states.

We do know it is high infectious. We know it roughly kills 2% of people who have it (as long as there is sufficient healthcare). This thing has already mutated, who is to say that it doesn't get stronger and become a much more serious disease.





Where is the timeline I gave? I stated we need a 4 week quarantine, like various other countries are doing.

Saying all of this, I didn't come here to start an argument. I apologize for being flippant. I hope that I am wrong, and you all are right. And this thing blows over soon.
First off, I'm not making any predictions that this will blow over soon. I am making a prediction that we'll know a lot more about the trajectory of this thing 2 weeks from now than we will now.

As far as the resistance/immunity I've seen several articles talking about it (here's one of them: https://www.thedailybeast.com/four-ways-experts-say-coronavirus-nightmare-could-end) but I've mostly quit reading about this junk because there are plenty of contradictory things depending on which one you look at. For instance, I saw something recently that said that a study showed that covid-19 isn't mutating as was initially thought. This thing is obviously more deadly and contagious than the flu but that doesn't mean that we can't develop the same type of immune resistances to it. It's never going to go away but over time we will develop a resistance to it just as we've done with other viruses which means the worst of it will be now and over the coming weeks/months.

[centennial]

First off, I'm not making any predictions that this will blow over soon. I am making a prediction that we'll know a lot more about the trajectory of this thing 2 weeks from now than we will now.

As far as the resistance/immunity I've seen several articles talking about it (here's one of them: https://www.thedailybeast.com/four-ways-experts-say-coronavirus-nightmare-could-end) but I've mostly quit reading about this junk because there are plenty of contradictory things depending on which one you look at. For instance, I saw something recently that said that a study showed that covid-19 isn't mutating as was initially thought. This thing is obviously more deadly and contagious than the flu but that doesn't mean that we can't develop the same type of immune resistances to it. It's never going to go away but over time we will develop a resistance to it just as we've done with other viruses which means the worst of it will be now and over the coming weeks/months.

The trajectory that should be avoided is what happened to Italy. The US hasn't shown any significant "flattening of the curve", it looks exponential. Last 2 days both added 10k new infections. Hopefully this goes into a downward direction. 10 days ago the number was close to 1k infections, today we added 10k. When the healthcare infrastructure gets stretched things get even worse. Most people can't even get a test, who knows what the real numbers are. I have seen enough videos(with people crying/ bawling) from Italy that I am horrified that my friends and loved ones might be at the receiving end of this thing. The only way this reasonably ends is a real quarantine, testing and lot more contact tracing like every country is doing.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The trajectory that should be avoided is what happened to Italy. The US hasn't shown any significant "flattening of the curve", it looks exponential. Last 2 days both added 10k new infections. Hopefully this goes into a downward direction. 10 days ago the number was close to 1k infections, today we added 10k. When the healthcare infrastructure gets stretched things get even worse. Most people can't even get a test, who knows what the real numbers are. I have seen enough videos(with people crying/ bawling) from Italy that I am horrified that my friends and loved ones might be at the receiving end of this thing. The only way this reasonably ends is a real quarantine, testing and lot more contact tracing like every country is doing.


Say your are right. How long should be quarantine? 1 month? 3 months? longer?

I'll tell you this. This thing is going to kill our economy for years to come. Massive unemployment.

There will probably be more people that die from suicide and alcohol/drug addiction than this virus because of all the residual affects associated with this.

[caribbeanhen]

Domestic violence up 55%

Here’s Johnny

[Lorne_Malvo]

Instead of making random claims, can you just tell me how I wrong?
Posting the opinion of some random from Engadget. Nuff said?

[centennial]

Say your are right. How long should be quarantine? 1 month? 3 months? longer?

I'll tell you this. This thing is going to kill our economy for years to come. Massive unemployment.

There will probably be more people that die from suicide and alcohol/drug addiction than this virus because of all the residual affects associated with this.

The US needs a 4 week quarantine. Essential supplies should be handled by the national guard. Testing needs to be upped. People who test positive must be further quarantined till they don't test negative twice across 2 weeks. Rapid test kits have been developed by multiple countries, they need to order about 5-10 million of them. Ideally life will be back to normal by early May. After that contact tracing will need to be done for new cases.

Economy should bounce back in 6 months. The fundamentals weren't bad anyway. If nothing is done this will drag out to August-September maybe even longer. A half response won't be adequate, because they countries that do business with the US will not let us reinfect them again. No other country except the UK has talked about heard immunity. Everyone is trying to eliminate the disease.

The other way out is a vaccine and a anti-viral. Vaccine might be mid 2021, an anti viral is also not coming before the end of this year.


Posting the opinion of some random from Engadget. Nuff said?

The Engadget stuff talks about protein folding, spike proteins for COVID-19, computationally creating a protein to solve this thing. Geez. I can post videos directly from University of Washington, the only reason I didn't because those are too advanced for folks here. There is nothing wrong with that video.

[Lorne_Malvo]

I can post videos directly from University of Washington, the only reason I didn't because those are too advanced for folks here.
Just because you don't understand them, does not mean that the rest of us don't.
I think you put much too high of a grade on your intellect. But way to insult everyone's intelligence.

[centennial]

Just because you don't understand them, does not mean that the rest of us don't.
I think you put much too high of a grade on your intellect. But way to insult everyone's intelligence.

When did I say anything about anyone's intelligence? How many bio technologists, epidemiologist, geneticist, virologist do we have here? You are projecting hard. I never claimed to be an expert, I am just leveraging some college science background. I am open to anyone correcting me. You on the other hand engage in ad hominem attacks for no reason. I have been more than civil with you, but I'll be ignoring you from now.

[semobison]

A golfing buddy of mine was put on a ventilator overnight. He returned to ND less than two weeks ago from the East coast where he was coaching a curling team. He thought he had caught a cold then the flu. **** just got a lot more real knowing someone who is struggling with this disease!

[NY Crusader 2010]

I work for the second largest beverage distributor in the United States, based in NYC. Still operating to the fullest possible extent as we are deemed an essential business by the governor. We have had 6 employees test positive so far, the first of whom passed away on Wednesday. 40 years old, in good shape with no pre-existing conditions. However, it does sound like this gentleman got really unlucky where he first caught the regular flu, for which he took a few days off and received the proper medication. He then returned to work upon the disappearance of those symptoms and caught COVID-19 somewhere out in the field shortly thereafter. The virus killed him in 9 days after he first showed symptoms and was tested for corona -- my guess is that the bout with the flu weakened his immune system and made him more susceptible to the COVID strain.

[Lorne_Malvo]

I almost fully disagree with your post. This has too high a mortality rate and too high spread just to let it go. America will have to go to a full 4 week quarantine, we can revisit this in a week. The results are only under 2% mortality when there is adequate healthcare. It will go up to 5% or more without sufficient doctors, ventilators and drugs. Add to this Americans are unhealthy, even Italians are lot healthier on average. Other countries will not allow Americans who carry this at a high rate to come in to their countries.

The protein for the anti-virals haven't had a successful candidate till date. There are many home amateurs trying their hand at it. Even when it gets made it will be extremely expensive because we are talking about synthetic DNA/ novel proteins.

My morbid prediction is we have over 200k infected and about 1000 passing a day by the next weekend if things aren't tightened up.

As to what research is going on. This video explains it well. Well worth your 6 minutes to understand what is going on, and not to spread misinformation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=518XZrkyfFs

SKYNET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[centennial]

I lost a sure shot job offer with 2 companies that I was interviewing for.

This essential business crap really need to die. Close everything for 3 weeks. Engage in mass testing, otherwise this thing will actually kill the economy. I saw some pre prints of papers that will be out. I also saw some simulations. The measures in America don't do enough.

[JSUSoutherner]

When did I say anything about anyone's intelligence? How many bio technologists, epidemiologist, geneticist, virologist do we have here? You are projecting hard. I never claimed to be an expert, I am just leveraging some college science background. I am open to anyone correcting me. You on the other hand engage in ad hominem attacks for no reason. I have been more than civil with you, but I'll be ignoring you from now.

Don't worry about Lorne, he's a very sensitive snowflake.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I lost a sure shot job offer with 2 companies that I was interviewing for.

This essential business crap really need to die. Close everything for 3 weeks. Engage in mass testing, otherwise this thing will actually kill the economy. I saw some pre prints of papers that will be out. I also saw some simulations. The measures in America don't do enough.


People need to eat. Not everyone has food stores that will last weeks at a time.

[centennial]

People need to eat. Not everyone has food stores that will last weeks at a time.

Those can be figured out with two trips outside a week. The more people go out the longer the stay at home will be. I saw some simulations that say with central hubs to shop, infections will not get to zero.

The numbers coming out are grim. 10k dead a day in 2 weeks. Start testing the people for antibodies and the virus. Those with antibodies and no virus can go outside. That's another way.

[TheKingpin28]

Those can be figured out with two trips outside a week. The more people go out the longer the stay at home will be. I saw some simulations that say with central hubs to shop, infections will not get to zero.

The numbers coming out are grim. 10k dead a day in 2 weeks. Start testing the people for antibodies and the virus. Those with antibodies and no virus can go outside. That's another way.Only way this will happen is if Martial Law is declared and if that happens, expect the citizenry to revolt. Stripping people of their civil liberties is how people rise up against the government. I have to go out for a drive every day for about 30 minutes otherwise I will go insane and that is the last thing I want to have happen. My mental health is not going to be curbed by ANY laws. I'm sorry if you want me to stay indoors for the next month, it is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Redbird 4th & short]

Only way this will happen is if Martial Law is declared and if that happens, expect the citizenry to revolt. Stripping people of their civil liberties is how people rise up against the government. I have to go out for a drive every day for about 30 minutes otherwise I will go insane and that is the last thing I want to have happen. My mental health is not going to be curbed by ANY laws. I'm sorry if you want me to stay indoors for the next month, it is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk
So the only response to this is ... inagine if all 330m Americans decided to take the exact same attitude ?

Its not just about you or if you get it or not.

[TheKingpin28]

So the only response to this is ... inagine if all 330m Americans decided to take the exact same attitude ?

Its not just about you or if you get it or not.I will not sacrifice my mental health and well being. It's just not going to happen. I go for a drive to give myself a chance to unwind. I'm fine with the current restrictions as I can still go out and get fresh air but I will not be forced into a lockdown mode.

When my livelihood is being ****ed with and my civil liberties stripped away, I will ensure that it ends and that it ends quickly. I've done everything that has been asked of me so far by the government but everyone has a breaking point and it is getting pretty damn close to breaking. Taking away my ability to go out by myself and unwind in my car with the windows up is not going to happen.

Say to me and call me whatever you want, but I will not be beholden to ridiculous orders that prevent me from living my life and keeping my mental health in check.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[centennial]

I will not sacrifice my mental health and well being. It's just not going to happen. I go for a drive to give myself a chance to unwind. I'm fine with the current restrictions as I can still go out and get fresh air but I will not be forced into a lockdown mode.

When my livelihood is being ****ed with and my civil liberties stripped away, I will ensure that it ends and that it ends quickly. I've done everything that has been asked of me so far by the government but everyone has a breaking point and it is getting pretty damn close to breaking. Taking away my ability to go out by myself and unwind in my car with the windows up is not going to happen.

Say to me and call me whatever you want, but I will not be beholden to ridiculous orders that prevent me from living my life and keeping my mental health in check.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

Go to an isolated area where you can get all the fresh air you want. I can't see how a 3-4 week lockdown is avoidable. I take a walk at odd times as well. Ideally we can all stay put for a while and this gets over. Otherwise this is an unending nightmare.

High viral loads seem to be killing even healthy folks. Again this is anecdotal but we can all use less exposure to this bug. Add to this if someone is able to get 2-3 variations.

Please see a mental health professional if this a mental health issue.

[Paladin1aa]

Some one needs to think ahead about what we are going to do when a vaccine is found and the Right wing whacko anti-vax nutjob crowd has to be confronted.

[centennial]

Some one needs to think ahead about what we are going to do when a vaccine is found and the Right wing whacko anti-vax nutjob crowd has to be confronted.

I unfriend any person promoting anti vac propoganda. The only thing I'm averse to is the flu vaccine. That thing got me sick twice as much as the flu. Even then if my work requires it, I'll get the shot.

We don't have the protein for the anti viral yet. Right now the best action is finding people with anti bodies and using their plasma to give people's bodies time to fight back. This is what China was doing. This is going to be a rough few months.

[ngineer]

Being 68 years old, and my wife a couple years older, we are essentially self quarantining. I still go out in work in our back yard gardens and take the dog for long walk. Luckily, we have a lot of good open space around for people to do that. I am concerned for those who live in close or cramped housing. The next month will be much worse as this spreads and more case are discovered. Hopefully, with the return of more sunlight we will see this ebb starting in May; however, come the fall, I will not be surprised to see a resurgence. Until well build up natural or acquired immunity through vaccines, we will be seeing this 'around'. This could have significant impact on many facets of our employment and recreational lives.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I will not sacrifice my mental health and well being. It's just not going to happen. I go for a drive to give myself a chance to unwind. I'm fine with the current restrictions as I can still go out and get fresh air but I will not be forced into a lockdown mode.

When my livelihood is being ****ed with and my civil liberties stripped away, I will ensure that it ends and that it ends quickly. I've done everything that has been asked of me so far by the government but everyone has a breaking point and it is getting pretty damn close to breaking. Taking away my ability to go out by myself and unwind in my car with the windows up is not going to happen.

Say to me and call me whatever you want, but I will not be beholden to ridiculous orders that prevent me from living my life and keeping my mental health in check.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

Except this isn't just about your mental health and desires to take full advantage of the liberties our constition provide to us. And I have no issue with you getting outside and needing to take advantage of those opportunities, and maintaining some quality of life. But those liberty rights end where they put others at risk .. that is also in the same constitution. And your words read more like, I can do whatever I want, no matter what it does to put myself and others at risk. If we don't come together and do what we can now to slow this, it only gets worse and fast.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or you meant something else. But we all have to do our part to control this spread right now.

[POD Knows]

I unfriend any person promoting anti vac propoganda. The only thing I'm averse to is the flu vaccine. That thing got me sick twice as much as the flu. Even then if my work requires it, I'll get the shot.

We don't have the protein for the anti viral yet. Right now the best action is finding people with anti bodies and using their plasma to give people's bodies time to fight back. This is what China was doing. This is going to be a rough few months.You ever had a child, that was completely normal prior to an MMR vaccination, suddenly become uncommunicative, lose the urge to eat, and become completely distant? Check with me when that happens or it happens to a friend of yours, shouldn't be that tough, given the metrics on this. There is risk with vaccine that far outweigh the stupid "diseases" it attempts to eliminate. I had all of those when I was a kid, so did everybody I know, so did every kid in the freaking world, and the risks were not that great. The vaccine, in this specific case, may cause more damage than the cure.

[centennial]

You ever had a child, that was completely normal prior to an MMR vaccination, suddenly become uncommunicative, lose the urge to eat, and become completely distant? Check with me when that happens or it happens to a friend of yours, shouldn't be that tough, given the metrics on this. There is risk with vaccine that far outweigh the stupid "diseases" it attempts to eliminate. I had all of those when I was a kid, so did everybody I know, so did every kid in the freaking world, and the risks were not that great. The vaccine, in this specific case, may cause more damage than the cure.

Show me proof that MMR vaccine causes autism. Autism is a multi fold disease, it can have many reasons. The biggest is genetic. Environmental factors, excess chemicals, color additives, pesticides, herbicides are all a lot more likely IMO to cause issues. The genetic reasons are partially solvable with correcting nutrition imbalances. MTHFR is a pretty big one, there are a few others.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5633227/


There is a significant association between severity and occurrence of autism with MTHFR gene polymorphisms C677T and A1298C. Further studies are needed on a larger scale to explore other genes polymorphisms that may be associated with autism, to correlate the genetic basis of autism.




Where as-
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30986133


However, autism is a neurodevelopmental condition that has a strong genetic component with genesis before one year of age, when MMR vaccine is typically administered. Several epidemiologic studies have not found an association between MMR vaccination and autism, including a study that found that MMR vaccine was not associated with an increased risk of autism even among high-risk children whose older siblings had autism. Despite strong evidence of its safety, some parents are still hesitant to accept MMR vaccination of their children.

[POD Knows]

Show me proof that MMR vaccine causes autism. Autism is a multi fold disease, it can have many reasons. The biggest is genetic. Environmental factors, excess chemicals, color additives, pesticides, herbicides are all a lot more likely IMO to cause issues. The genetic reasons are partially solvable with correcting nutrition imbalances. MTHFR is a pretty big one, there are a few others.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5633227/


Where as-
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30986133
OK, what ever turns your crank. I am not an ant-vaxxer, I am an anti-vaxxer for illnesses that people almost always walk away from with no personal harm. These little kids are getting cocktails of this stuff and there are trend lines that show other impacts, I refuse to close my mind to the fact that all of these vaccines will have a positive effect without some adverse effects. That trend line on male autism has never been explained. The numbers are shocking and nobody gives a ****.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

OK, what ever turns your crank. I am not an ant-vaxxer, I am an anti-vaxxer for illnesses that people almost always walk away from with no personal harm. These little kids are getting cocktails of this stuff and there are trend lines that show other impacts, I refuse to close my mind to the fact that all of these vaccines will have a positive effect without some adverse effects. That trend line on male autism has never been explained. The numbers are shocking and nobody gives a ****.


My nephew has Asperger's and sometimes I wonder if all the sh** given to kids as vaccines caused this with him.

[POD Knows]

My nephew has Asperger's and sometimes I wonder if all the sh** given to kids as vaccines caused this with him.Have you looked at the stats for this in male children? I have no idea what has caused this uptick but I refuse to let Pharma off the hook because the trend lines follow the increases in vaccinations at a young age but there are all sorts of other things out there can could have an influence as well. I love the "genetics" response to this as if somehow, someway, our genetic code mutated to somehow effect only young males in the past 50 years.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Have you looked at the stats for this in male children? I have no idea what has caused this uptick but I refuse to let Pharma off the hook because the trend lines follow the increases in vaccinations at a young age but there are all sorts of other things out there can could have an influence as well. I love the "genetics" response to this as if somehow, someway, our genetic code mutated to somehow effect only young males in the past 50 years.


The "genetics" angle is pretty insignificant IMO.

When I was growing up, I do not remember any kid with "autism". We had kids that were "mental handicapped" but no autism. Now autism is diagnosed all the time in kids, esp boys.

Do we use more herbicides, insecticides, fungicides and other chemicals more now?

I'm not an anti-vaxer but I think all of these things do contribute in some way to all these mental issues (autism, aspergers) and others....

[POD Knows]

The "genetics" angle is pretty insignificant IMO.

When I was growing up, I do not remember any kid with "autism". We had kids that were "mental handicapped" but no autism. Now autism is diagnosed all the time in kids, esp boys.

Do we use more herbicides, insecticides, fungicides and other chemicals more now?

I'm not an anti-vaxer but I think all of these things do contribute in some way to all these mental issues (autism, aspergers) and others....I don't remember any kids with autism, ADD, yea, hell, I think I have it but we weren't getting 20 to 30 different vaccines at the time. I have only been vaccinated for polio, nothing else. I can't even count how many shots kids get now. It is mind boggling. Childhood allergies are up, autism through the roof but I guess we need to exclude vaccines from the conversation. I personally think there is something else going on but when you get people digging in to protect the pharma guys, well, maybe it is game on.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Nobody had ADD/AHD when we were kids. You had kids that sat down and paid attention in class, and you had kids that got their ass whipped. More often than not, being in that second group was a temporary condition that prompted self-compliance and reclassification into the first group.

That being said, I probably did have ADD/AHD...I was just fortunate enough to have teachers who recognized that I was bored in school. I transitioned from from Catholic School to public school right before the second grade. The Sisters of Perpetual Pain didn't play around. Sister Genevieve was deadly with grabbing the short neck hair game and she gave great ruler. I mean, seriously, forget waterboarding, she could make anybody do whatever she wanted. My guess is the she was probably a Dominatrix before she found God and learned to inflict real pain as a Nun. (Since I don't want to go to hell should Covid19 take me, I'll point out that I'm kidding. Sister Genevieve was actually affiliated with The Sisters of Charity, the same order that founded Incarnate Word Academy in Corpus Christi, and The University of the Incarnate Word in San Antonio...but, all that stuff about giving great ruler, being able to inflict pain and having a wicked short neck hair game? That was all spot on!..

But I digress....since the public schools didn't allow that sorta thing, I was a bit out of control as a second grader. My teacher had actually taught my father, which didn't exactly inure to my benefit. She recalled him as a rather talkative and difficult child. I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to how far the apple fell from the tree. The third grade was better, as they figured out that I really liked to read. My step mom was the children's librarian at the local public library, so they cut me some major slack. I didn't have daily checkout limits like the other kids did. Of course, I initially had to prove to them that I read all the books I checked out...and when I pointed out an error in the way they were classifying a book, they sorta let me do whatever I wanted...I got through the 3rd grade, by sitting in the very back, by myself, and reading whatever new book I picked up that morning. My 3rd grade teacher was smart. She made me go to the library every morning and get new books, knowing that it would keep my busy and occupied all day. My 4th grade took teacher took a different approach, and put me in a desk at the front of the room, right next to hers, away from everybody else....but, this was the late 60's, early 70's and NASA was sending all sorts of stuff to every school in Texas. The materials they sent weren't of sufficient quantity to distribute to the entire class, so to keep me quiet, since the ass whippings generally didn't work, she tucked all those NASA books into my desk. I'd open it up, find that stuff and I'd be pre-occupied for the rest of the day. I guess they cut me some major slack because I was the child of a single Mom, who was an educator and because of my Step Mother. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure the beatings would have continued until my moral improved...but I digress. If I'd grown up in the digital technology age, and could zone out like the kids can now, I'm pretty sure I'd have been diagnosed on the spectrum...

We moved to Louisiana when I was in the 5th grade, into a small town where football was king. I realized pretty quickly that I was gonna hafta figure the sports thing out or my life was gonna be pretty miserable...

So, the take-away, for me, is that if you give a kid plenty that captures his imagination and you work the hell out of him, physically, he eventually learns to socialize correctly and self-normalizes..

Sorta ;)

[caribbeanhen]

I don't remember any kids with autism, ADD, yea, hell, I think I have it but we weren't getting 20 to 30 different vaccines at the time. I have only been vaccinated for polio, nothing else. I can't even count how many shots kids get now. It is mind boggling. Childhood allergies are up, autism through the roof but I guess we need to exclude vaccines from the conversation. I personally think there is something else going on but when you get people digging in to protect the pharma guys, well, maybe it is game on.

hey, doctors need to make a living too

[POD Knows]

Nobody had ADD/AHD when we were kids. You had kids that sat down and paid attention in class, and you had kids that got their ass whipped. More often than not, being in that second group was a temporary condition that prompted self-compliance and reclassification into the first group.

That being said, I probably did have ADD/AHD...I was just fortunate enough to have teachers who recognized that I was bored in school. I transitioned from from Catholic School to public school right before the second grade. The Sisters of Perpetual Pain didn't play around. Sister Genevieve was deadly with grabbing the short neck hair game and she gave great ruler. I mean, seriously, forget waterboarding, she could make anybody do whatever she wanted. My guess is the she was probably a Dominatrix before she found God and learned to inflict real pain as a Nun. (Since I don't want to go to hell should Covid19 take me, I'll point out that I'm kidding. Sister Genevieve was actually affiliated with The Sisters of Charity, the same order that founded Incarnate Word Academy in Corpus Christi, and The University of the Incarnate Word in San Antonio...but, all that stuff about giving great ruler, being able to inflict pain and having a wicked short neck hair game? That was all spot on!..

But I digress....since the public schools didn't allow that sorta thing, I was a bit out of control as a second grader. My teacher had actually taught my father, which didn't exactly inure to my benefit. She recalled him as a rather talkative and difficult child. I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to how far the apple fell from the tree. The third grade was better, as they figured out that I really liked to read. My step mom was the children's librarian at the local public library, so they cut me some major slack. I didn't have daily checkout limits like the other kids did. Of course, I initially had to prove to them that I read all the books I checked out...and when I pointed out an error in the way they were classifying a book, they sorta let me do whatever I wanted...I got through the 3rd grade, by sitting in the very back, by myself, and reading whatever new book I picked up that morning. My 3rd grade teacher was smart. She made me go to the library every morning and get new books, knowing that it would keep my busy and occupied all day. My 4th grade took teacher took a different approach, and put me in a desk at the front of the room, right next to hers, away from everybody else....but, this was the late 60's, early 70's and NASA was sending all sorts of stuff to every school in Texas. The materials they sent weren't of sufficient quantity to distribute to the entire class, so to keep me quiet, since the ass whippings generally didn't work, she tucked all those NASA books into my desk. I'd open it up, find that stuff and I'd be pre-occupied for the rest of the day. I guess they cut me some major slack because I was the child of a single Mom, who was an educator and because of my Step Mother. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure the beatings would have continued until my moral improved...but I digress. If I'd grown up in the digital technology age, and could zone out like the kids can now, I'm pretty sure I'd have been diagnosed on the spectrum...

We moved to Louisiana when I was in the 5th grade, into a small town where football was king. I realized pretty quickly that I was gonna hafta figure the sports thing out or my life was gonna be pretty miserable...

So, the take-away, for me, is that if you give a kid plenty that captures his imagination and you work the hell out of him, physically, he eventually learns to socialize correctly and self-normalizes..

Sorta ;)
100% right, I lived in the hallway in my desk when I was a kid as did most of my friends, today we would be branded ADD, but I have found out later in life that I learn visually and kinetically and the old bats that taught school back then had no idea how people actually learn. To this day, if I have to listen a speaker drone on or a 2 hour conference call with no visuals I could just as well not even be there. Zero attention span for it, I learn by seeing and doing, not by listening.

[BisonFan02]

100% right, I lived in the hallway in my desk when I was a kid as did most of my friends, today we would be branded ADD, but I have found out later in life that I learn visually and kinetically and the old bats that taught school back then had no idea how people actually learn. To this day, if I have to listen a speaker drone on or a 2 hour conference call with no visuals I could just as well not even be there. Zero attention span for it, I learn by seeing and doing, not by listening.

Same. xlolx

[FormerPokeCenter]

100% right, I lived in the hallway in my desk when I was a kid as did most of my friends, today we would be branded ADD, but I have found out later in life that I learn visually and kinetically and the old bats that taught school back then had no idea how people actually learn. To this day, if I have to listen a speaker drone on or a 2 hour conference call with no visuals I could just as well not even be there. Zero attention span for it, I learn by seeing and doing, not by listening.

Whatever I'm studying has to move quickly....if the instructor is too slow, I ****ing lose interest in it quick. I recently went back to school to work on an engineering degree. Holy **** the instructors drive me nuts. This one chick who teaches math doesn't teach the theory behind what you're doing, she just does this repetitive regurgitation. She even says she doesn't care if we understand what we're doing, as long as she can show us how to do it...the lightbulb will go on at some point in the future? WTF? Tell me WHY we're doing what we're doing, so I can lay a proper foundation. And she's from New Yawk....and she's constantly saying things like "You don't gotta do dat"

WTF? You don't gotta?? I'm going ****ing crazy trying to force myself NOT to ****ing correct her....and then she'll be explaining a five step process...she'll get three steps in and then she'll back up and try to explain the second step in elementary terms. I'm like, "Holy ****ing ****, I was right there. You had me close to an epiphanous climax and then you ****ing moved and I lost it...and then her ****ing simple seque for the mouthbreathing millenials in the class takes like 30 ****ing minutes and I'm totally bored outta my skull waiting for her to get back to step four and five, which she either never gets to, or I ****ing zone out and miss it....I'm like Joe Friday....just give me the ****ing facts....this backwards ass seque to step two, when we're at step four doesn't make ANY ****ing sense. You guys see what I write. When I segue, it's in a logical place. I seque section two when we're talking about section two. I don't wait till we're on section four. WTF???

Wait, why are we talking about this ****? Did I digress again? Holy ****!

Maybe I DO ****ing have ADD/AHD!

[POD Knows]

Whatever I'm studying has to move quickly....if the instructor is too slow, I ****ing lose interest in it quick. I recently went back to school to work on an engineering degree. Holy **** the instructors drive me nuts. This one chick who teaches math doesn't teach the theory behind what you're doing, she just does this repetitive regurgitation. She even says she doesn't care if we understand what we're doing, as long as she can show us how to do it...the lightbulb will go on at some point in the future? WTF? Tell me WHY we're doing what we're doing, so I can lay a proper foundation. And she's from New Yawk....and she's constantly saying things like "You don't gotta do dat"

WTF? You don't gotta?? I'm going ****ing crazy trying to force myself NOT to ****ing correct her....and then she'll be explaining a five step process...she'll get three steps in and then she'll back up and try to explain the second step in elementary terms. I'm like, "Holy ****ing ****, I was right there. You had me close to an epiphanous climax and then you ****ing moved and I lost it...and then her ****ing simple seque for the mouthbreathing millenials in the class takes like 30 ****ing minutes and I'm totally bored outta my skull waiting for her to get back to step four and five, which she either never gets to, or I ****ing zone out and miss it....I'm like Joe Friday....just give me the ****ing facts....this backwards ass seque to step two, when we're at step four doesn't make ANY ****ing sense. You guys see what I write. When I segue, it's in a logical place. I seque section two when we're talking about section two. I don't wait till we're on section four. WTF???

Wait, why are we talking about this ****? Did I digress again? Holy ****!Yea, I had to quit reading your post, there weren't enough pics to keep me going although the stream of asterisks kept me somewhat interested. If I am sitting in a group and there is a southern guy talking and telling a story and it is taking forever I will end up finishing his sentences for him, in the essence of time.

[FormerPokeCenter]

See, that could be a problem. How do you ****ing know which ****ing cursewords I was gonna ****ing use? Look, you can **** with me about my ADD/AHD, but don't go ****ing with my Tourrette's!

[BisonTru]

It's possible ya'll are just really ****ing bad at retaining information. xcoolx:)

[FormerPokeCenter]

Did you just say something?

[favorite football fan]

Some one needs to think ahead about what we are going to do when a vaccine is found and the Right wing whacko anti-vax nutjob crowd has to be confronted.

Can you explain why Robert F. Kennedy Jr is one of the leading proponents of anti-vaccine rhetoric? Last I checked, he is a liberal democrat and definitely left wing. I believe that the anti-vaccine rhetoric is emanating from leftists nut jobs and these tree-hugging Green New Deal socialists/progressive/communists need to be confronted before they begin their Stalinistic march by placing their Birkenstock foot on our necks.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/30/kennedy-antivaccine-crusade-disgrace/
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/robert-f-kennedy-jr-is-the-single-leading-source-of-anti-vax-ads-on-facebook/

[SUPharmacist]

You ever had a child, that was completely normal prior to an MMR vaccination, suddenly become uncommunicative, lose the urge to eat, and become completely distant? Check with me when that happens or it happens to a friend of yours, shouldn't be that tough, given the metrics on this. There is risk with vaccine that far outweigh the stupid "diseases" it attempts to eliminate. I had all of those when I was a kid, so did everybody I know, so did every kid in the freaking world, and the risks were not that great. The vaccine, in this specific case, may cause more damage than the cure.

Let me just start by saying I now need a break from this site (maybe the admins will tell me the same). This is the extent of my social media presence, and I thought I was safe if I stuck to a football message board. But just like you I was really ****ing wrong.

I work in pharmacy so I am sure you will dismiss my opinions, but I need to share my thoughts. I do not trust Pharma and am the first to admit that vaccines have side effects. The new shingles vaccine, while very effective against shingles makes a lot if people feel like **** for a couple days. Personally I think it is worth it, but I am very up front about how bad it can make people feel. Pneumonia vaccines are helpful at preventing Pneuomoccal infections, but that is not the same thing as preventing Pneumonia despite what Pharma may tell you (I still think they are a net positive).

But if you are going to put this MMR bull**** out there **** you. Particularly when it may be important to roll out a coronavirus vaccine to the public if one is developed.

In 1980 over 2 million people worldwide died of measles, by 2014 it was down to about 75,000. Let's just say you are right and it causes Autism (even though you are not), while awful to impacted families it sounds like a pretty good trade-off.

However, the original study proposing a link between MMR and autism was retracted by the Lancet, the lead author has lost his license to practice in the UK after submitting falsified data and not disclosing conflicts of interest that would allow him to profit off litigation related to the vaccine. I acknowledge Pharma certainly has numerous conflicts of interest, but let us look at the facts instead of practicing What-about-isms. Further studies were undertaken to reproduce the increased risk of autism from MMR, all showed no link. We then moved on to studying Thiomersal as the culprit. Mercury is definitely a concern, but studies showed no link with Autism. Regardless of finding no link Thiomersal has been removed from most vaccines including MMR. Now we get to hear that the cause of Autism is the sheer number of vaccines despite the fact that we are all exposed to more antigens every day than the total amount in the recommended vaccine schedule. As a result I now hear the cause of Autism is the Aluminum in some vaccines. Maybe we will eventually find a link to something in vaccines, but at this point the burden of proof is on the anti-vaxxers and I await any actual evidence.

Do I know what causes Autism? No, but I think it is definitely multi-factorial and believe the spike is also related to changes in diagnostic criteria leading to more people diagnosed. I am sympathetic to families who are dealing with Autism, but outside of supporting further research I have no solutions for them and am unwilling to ignore all data to make them feel better. This is similar to scenarios that sometimes occur with drugs that the FDA and Pharma have fast-tracked for rare diseases. These are sometimes the only hope for patients, but when further studies show no benefit they should be pulled as opposed to allowing Pharma to charge exorbinant prices for therapies that do not work.

But coming back around to the Coronavirus, this is much more infectious and much more deadly than the flu. If we luck out and develop an effective vaccine in the near future, I will be first in line to get it for myself and my family including a soon to be 2 year old male. I hope you and those close to you will do the same. Despite the fact that I think you are dead wrong I would hate to see you or anyone close to you die from a preventable illness.

[SUPharmacist]

Can you explain why Robert F. Kennedy Jr is one of the leading proponents of anti-vaccine rhetoric? Last I checked, he is a liberal democrat and definitely left wing. I believe that the anti-vaccine rhetoric is emanating from leftists nut jobs and these tree-hugging Green New Deal socialists/progressive/communists need to be confronted before they begin their Stalinistic march by placing their Birkenstock foot on our necks.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/30/kennedy-antivaccine-crusade-disgrace/
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/robert-f-kennedy-jr-is-the-single-leading-source-of-anti-vax-ads-on-facebook/

This is definitely not a right vs left issue. I see crazies on both sides in the anti-vaxxer camp.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Let me just start by saying I now need a break from this site (maybe the admins will tell me the same). This is the extent of my social media presence, and I thought I was safe if I stuck to a football message board. But just like you I was really ****ing wrong.

I work in pharmacy so I am sure you will dismiss my opinions, but I need to share my thoughts. I do not trust Pharma and am the first to admit that vaccines have side effects. The new shingles vaccine, while very effective against shingles makes a lot if people feel like **** for a couple days. Personally I think it is worth it, but I am very up front about how bad it can make people feel. Pneumonia vaccines are helpful at preventing Pneuomoccal infections, but that is not the same thing as preventing Pneumonia despite what Pharma may tell you (I still think they are a net positive).

But if you are going to put this MMR bull**** out there **** you. Particularly when it may be important to roll out a coronavirus vaccine to the public if one is developed.

In 1980 over 2 million people worldwide died of measles, by 2014 it was down to about 75,000. Let's just say you are right and it causes Autism (even though you are not), while awful to impacted families it sounds like a pretty good trade-off.

However, the original study proposing a link between MMR and autism was retracted by the Lancet, the lead author has lost his license to practice in the UK after submitting falsified data and not disclosing conflicts of interest that would allow him to profit off litigation related to the vaccine. I acknowledge Pharma certainly has numerous conflicts of interest, but let us look at the facts instead of practicing What-about-isms. Further studies were undertaken to reproduce the increased risk of autism from MMR, all showed no link. We then moved on to studying Thiomersal as the culprit. Mercury is definitely a concern, but studies showed no link with Autism. Regardless of finding no link Thiomersal has been removed from most vaccines including MMR. Now we get to hear that the cause of Autism is the sheer number of vaccines despite the fact that we are all exposed to more antigens every day than the total amount in the recommended vaccine schedule. As a result I now hear the cause of Autism is the Aluminum in some vaccines. Maybe we will eventually find a link to something in vaccines, but at this point the burden of proof is on the anti-vaxxers and I await any actual evidence.

Do I know what causes Autism? No, but I think it is definitely multi-factorial and believe the spike is also related to changes in diagnostic criteria leading to more people diagnosed. I am sympathetic to families who are dealing with Autism, but outside of supporting further research I have no solutions for them and am unwilling to ignore all data to make them feel better. This is similar to scenarios that sometimes occur with drugs that the FDA and Pharma have fast-tracked for rare diseases. These are sometimes the only hope for patients, but when further studies show no benefit they should be pulled as opposed to allowing Pharma to charge exorbinant prices for therapies that do not work.

But coming back around to the Coronavirus, this is much more infectious and much more deadly than the flu. If we luck out and develop an effective vaccine in the near future, I will be first in line to get it for myself and my family including a soon to be 2 year old male. I hope you and those close to you will do the same. Despite the fact that I think you are dead wrong I would hate to see you or anyone close to you die from a preventable illness.



This is all fine but still it is interesting about how rampant autism and related mental issues have become so prevalent the last few decades.

I'm not that much younger than POD and I do not remember 1 kid having this when I was growing up. Now it is uncommon for any family not to have someone they know have it. Why is this? I truly do not know. All the chemicals used in our lives has to be a big part of it.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Let me just start by saying I now need a break from this site (maybe the admins will tell me the same). This is the extent of my social media presence, and I thought I was safe if I stuck to a football message board. But just like you I was really ****ing wrong.

I work in pharmacy so I am sure you will dismiss my opinions, but I need to share my thoughts. I do not trust Pharma and am the first to admit that vaccines have side effects. The new shingles vaccine, while very effective against shingles makes a lot if people feel like **** for a couple days. Personally I think it is worth it, but I am very up front about how bad it can make people feel. Pneumonia vaccines are helpful at preventing Pneuomoccal infections, but that is not the same thing as preventing Pneumonia despite what Pharma may tell you (I still think they are a net positive).

But if you are going to put this MMR bull**** out there **** you. Particularly when it may be important to roll out a coronavirus vaccine to the public if one is developed.

In 1980 over 2 million people worldwide died of measles, by 2014 it was down to about 75,000. Let's just say you are right and it causes Autism (even though you are not), while awful to impacted families it sounds like a pretty good trade-off.

However, the original study proposing a link between MMR and autism was retracted by the Lancet, the lead author has lost his license to practice in the UK after submitting falsified data and not disclosing conflicts of interest that would allow him to profit off litigation related to the vaccine. I acknowledge Pharma certainly has numerous conflicts of interest, but let us look at the facts instead of practicing What-about-isms. Further studies were undertaken to reproduce the increased risk of autism from MMR, all showed no link. We then moved on to studying Thiomersal as the culprit. Mercury is definitely a concern, but studies showed no link with Autism. Regardless of finding no link Thiomersal has been removed from most vaccines including MMR. Now we get to hear that the cause of Autism is the sheer number of vaccines despite the fact that we are all exposed to more antigens every day than the total amount in the recommended vaccine schedule. As a result I now hear the cause of Autism is the Aluminum in some vaccines. Maybe we will eventually find a link to something in vaccines, but at this point the burden of proof is on the anti-vaxxers and I await any actual evidence.

Do I know what causes Autism? No, but I think it is definitely multi-factorial and believe the spike is also related to changes in diagnostic criteria leading to more people diagnosed. I am sympathetic to families who are dealing with Autism, but outside of supporting further research I have no solutions for them and am unwilling to ignore all data to make them feel better. This is similar to scenarios that sometimes occur with drugs that the FDA and Pharma have fast-tracked for rare diseases. These are sometimes the only hope for patients, but when further studies show no benefit they should be pulled as opposed to allowing Pharma to charge exorbinant prices for therapies that do not work.

But coming back around to the Coronavirus, this is much more infectious and much more deadly than the flu. If we luck out and develop an effective vaccine in the near future, I will be first in line to get it for myself and my family including a soon to be 2 year old male. I hope you and those close to you will do the same. Despite the fact that I think you are dead wrong I would hate to see you or anyone close to you die from a preventable illness.
very well stated, by someone who is obviously much better informed than most people here.

I hope you don't stop posting.

[Redbird 4th & short]

This is all fine but still it is interesting about how rampant autism and related mental issues have become so prevalent the last few decades.

I'm not that much younger than POD and I do not remember 1 kid having this when I was growing up. Now it is uncommon for any family not to have someone they know have it. Why is this? I truly do not know. All the chemicals used in our lives has to be a big part of it.

Here is a good read on understanding the emergence of autism since autism diagnosis was first established in 1943 .. called, "infantile autism" for infants "to describe children who seemed socially isolated and withdrawn." Not exactly backed by much science or study at that point, but everything must start somewhere.

The article does a very good job of laying out the evolution of this affliction in terms of what is driving the number afflicted over the decades since. Each section starts by asking a question, then answering it relative to better diagnoses and growing awareness. It even acknowledges most recently, it is possible not as many kids have autism as recently reported.

But it also clearly lays out why the previously reported number adflicted has increased from 1 in 2500 in the 1960's, to 1 in 1400 in the 1980's to 1 in 68 today. It also points out how treatment of kids 30+ years ago resulted in many being institutionalzed and essentially hidden from public because those kids were not ouut and about living in homes & neighborhoods, much less going to schools, etc, for all to see ... nothing like it is today.

This could be said of most cognitive/mental/social health diseases over the same period of time with all of the medical science advances in the last century. Or looking even much further back .. recall the handling of mental illness in the late 1600's with the Salem Witch trials.

Much can be learned by scientific medical research to advance recognition and ultimately how those afflicted can be better treated. Science is our friend ... there is always more to learn.

edit to ad link: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-real-reasons-autism-rates-are-up-in-the-u-s/

[POD Knows]

Let me just start by saying I now need a break from this site (maybe the admins will tell me the same). This is the extent of my social media presence, and I thought I was safe if I stuck to a football message board. But just like you I was really ****ing wrong.

I work in pharmacy so I am sure you will dismiss my opinions, but I need to share my thoughts. I do not trust Pharma and am the first to admit that vaccines have side effects. The new shingles vaccine, while very effective against shingles makes a lot if people feel like **** for a couple days. Personally I think it is worth it, but I am very up front about how bad it can make people feel. Pneumonia vaccines are helpful at preventing Pneuomoccal infections, but that is not the same thing as preventing Pneumonia despite what Pharma may tell you (I still think they are a net positive).

But if you are going to put this MMR bull**** out there **** you. Particularly when it may be important to roll out a coronavirus vaccine to the public if one is developed.

In 1980 over 2 million people worldwide died of measles, by 2014 it was down to about 75,000. Let's just say you are right and it causes Autism (even though you are not), while awful to impacted families it sounds like a pretty good trade-off.

However, the original study proposing a link between MMR and autism was retracted by the Lancet, the lead author has lost his license to practice in the UK after submitting falsified data and not disclosing conflicts of interest that would allow him to profit off litigation related to the vaccine. I acknowledge Pharma certainly has numerous conflicts of interest, but let us look at the facts instead of practicing What-about-isms. Further studies were undertaken to reproduce the increased risk of autism from MMR, all showed no link. We then moved on to studying Thiomersal as the culprit. Mercury is definitely a concern, but studies showed no link with Autism. Regardless of finding no link Thiomersal has been removed from most vaccines including MMR. Now we get to hear that the cause of Autism is the sheer number of vaccines despite the fact that we are all exposed to more antigens every day than the total amount in the recommended vaccine schedule. As a result I now hear the cause of Autism is the Aluminum in some vaccines. Maybe we will eventually find a link to something in vaccines, but at this point the burden of proof is on the anti-vaxxers and I await any actual evidence.

Do I know what causes Autism? No, but I think it is definitely multi-factorial and believe the spike is also related to changes in diagnostic criteria leading to more people diagnosed. I am sympathetic to families who are dealing with Autism, but outside of supporting further research I have no solutions for them and am unwilling to ignore all data to make them feel better. This is similar to scenarios that sometimes occur with drugs that the FDA and Pharma have fast-tracked for rare diseases. These are sometimes the only hope for patients, but when further studies show no benefit they should be pulled as opposed to allowing Pharma to charge exorbinant prices for therapies that do not work.

But coming back around to the Coronavirus, this is much more infectious and much more deadly than the flu. If we luck out and develop an effective vaccine in the near future, I will be first in line to get it for myself and my family including a soon to be 2 year old male. I hope you and those close to you will do the same. Despite the fact that I think you are dead wrong I would hate to see you or anyone close to you die from a preventable illness.I personally think there is something else going on but when you get people digging in to protect the pharma guys, well, maybe it is game on.

Here is a quote from one of my posts, I don't know where you get that I am an anti-vaxxer but that is typical because anytime anybody even remotely looks at the cocktails of vaccines given to kids and the trend lines on autism and childhood allergies they are automatically tagged with the anti-vaxxer label. I have no idea what is causing these trend lines for autism and other spectrum issues with kids but if we can't look at everything then we are doing a disservice to them. I had stated in my previous posts that I "thought" that other things are probably causing these trend lines to go up but true to form, every time any even remotely questions the need for all of these vaccines, people lose their minds, the defensiveness of the pharma industry is a red flag to me. I just want all avenues researched completely.

Other than that, I don't really disagree with anything in your post. This anti-vaccine issues crosses the political spectrum, most of the people I see or hear on this subject are the hard lefty environmental, organic food eating, latte sipping, Subaru driving, Birkenstock wearing, Earth mother types. There are anti-vaxxers in the fringe right as well

[favorite football fan]

This is definitely not a right vs left issue. I see crazies on both sides in the anti-vaxxer camp.

The issue in the vaccine argument is not whether you are pro- or con- (that's for or against for those in Rio Linda) but on "vaccine preparation" and "vaccine storage" and "vaccine administration". Questioning these things does not mean you are anti-vaccine.

If a vaccine does come out for this virus and it is rushed out the general public, worse problems could rise from the administration and how the body responds without proper testing. Dose-response will be key here in my view.

As far as a big Pharma is concerned, look, someone has to make it and I would not want someone in their garage "laboratory" coming up with a vaccine and then coming out and administering it. Then you start getting some real crazies out there no different than the person who died thinking that they could ingest fish tank cleaner to stave off Coronavirus and then blaming the Prez for suggesting "chlorquine" but instead ingested commercial chlorquine phosphate. As I tell my students: there are two common elements in the universe, hydrogen and stupidity. As well, there are four parts to matter: protons, electrons, neutrons and morons.

Yes, govt regulation is key here and some of the rules of testing procedures will have to be offset in order to manufacture it in large enough quantities, but I do not think I will take the vaccine initially until I see what the response is. It's like this: this is why I recommend alternative medicine to people. Why? So that I can see how they respond to it before I do it (Dennis Miller).

And this is what usually occurs by those who are anti-vax; those that scream the loudest about it are usually the first in line, pushing people out of the way, to get it so they can stay alive to argue against it.

This whole thing could be similar to going to a nudist colony: sounds like a great idea until you get there.

[FormerPokeCenter]

This whole thing could be similar to going to a nudist colony: sounds like a great idea until you get there.

This may be one of the best pieces of profundity to ever get posted on AGS. It can be applied to pretty much any topic. If you've ever been anywhere near Hippy Hollow in Austin, Texas, you know precisely how spot on this is!

[clenz]

OK, what ever turns your crank. I am not an ant-vaxxer, I am an anti-vaxxer for illnesses that people almost always walk away from with no personal harm. These little kids are getting cocktails of this stuff and there are trend lines that show other impacts, I refuse to close my mind to the fact that all of these vaccines will have a positive effect without some adverse effects. That trend line on male autism has never been explained. The numbers are shocking and nobody gives a ****.
I mean...knowledge as to what autism is is what lead to a spike in diagnosing.

The understanding of psychology and brain function compared to 50 years ago is literally night and day different. The ability to diagnose these things has led to the number going up. Thing like autism, ADHD, BPD, etc. aren't new in the last 50-100 years.

Hell, by your logic heart attacks and cancer didn't exist 100 years ago.

Medical advancements and the ability to diagnose is so advanced that it's tough for someone, who grew up in a different time (I'm 32 and am pushing that line as well), to understand how that actually impacts rates of diagnosis.

My wife is trained in diagnosing mental health disorders - including things like autism. She has a masters in mental health counseling, has done post graduate work with the University of Michigan, is an adjunct professor at a local college in their MA program, runs her own private practice, and does supervision for newer therapists - and has PhD programs in the area trying to get her into their program because they know her area of interest and want her to use them for the research. The amount of **** she has to know/knows/continues to read and study is nuts. Take a look at the DSM V. As a lay person to be able to actually pick that up and understand how to actually diagnose would be near impossible. The understanding of the brain/biology/chemistry that even the average trained mental health professional has in 2020 would be top 1-2% in the 1960s

[FormerPokeCenter]

The DSM-V is pretty entertaining and informative, actually. It's particularly useful for navigating the threads here on AGS...

Also, it's virtually impossible to date in your 50's without having a handy copy nearby to quickly consult as the need arises....

[Lorne_Malvo]

if I have to listen a speaker drone on or a 2 hour conference call with no visuals I could just as well not even be there.
This is half of my day, every day.

[POD Knows]

This is half of my day, every day.Oh yea, we are totally locked down and completely virtual now, I had about 25 conference calls last week and I don't remember **** from hardly any of them. I have a really hard time with this, I am an across the desk kind of guy. I have an acquisition going on and it is really complicated and we are going to do it virtually and we work with people that don't like that environment either, it will be a cluster **** probably.

[favorite football fan]

The DSM-V is pretty entertaining and informative, actually. It's particularly useful for navigating the threads here on AGS...

Also, it's virtually impossible to date in your 50's without having a handy copy nearby to quickly consult as the need arises....

The DSM-VI, when it comes out, will have a special section on the "online psychosis". Cross matching with the ICD-10 CM:

OP 1.01 (online psychosis)

OP 10.4.6 (online psychosis: sports message board: basic delusion disorder): defined as a constant preoccupation with being right and attempting to expose the other of your brilliance and inside knowledge that you never really had.

OP 10.4.7 (online psychosis: sports message board narcissistic personality with delusion of grandeur): defined as your school is the greatest and relevant when in fact they had not won a title in any sport prior to the War of 1812.

OP 11.0.1 (online psychosis: drive by response disorder): defined as the ability to become anonymous, join a message board and post a response in order to get people upset with the hope of being immediately banned only to find another message board performing the same behavior.

OP 11.02.1 (online withdrawal psychosis: homicidal potential disorder): defined as when internet is shut down and spouse has to socially interact with a person they married only to find out that the list of "honey-do's is so extensive that no spouse in 100 years could accomplish such tasks whereas spouse contemplates life without the other; must have significant other status, psychosis and access to legitimate legally defined motive.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

On Saturday I went to Fargo to move some of my daughters things out of her apartment and we called in a take out order from BWWs.

When I went to pick it up I asked the receptionist if they were busy and she said yes, it has been very busy with take out orders. That was nice to hear.

[POD Knows]

On Saturday I went to Fargo to move some of my daughters things out of her apartment and we called in a take out order from BWWs.

When I went to pick it up I asked the receptionist if they were busy and she said yes, it has been very busy with take out orders. That was nice to hear.If I lived in Fargo, I would probably get take out daily just to support the places

[FormerPokeCenter]

The DSM-VI, when it comes out, will have a special section on the "online psychosis". Cross matching with the ICD-10 CM:

OP 1.01 (online psychosis)

OP 10.4.6 (online psychosis: sports message board: basic delusion disorder): defined as a constant preoccupation with being right and attempting to expose the other of your brilliance and inside knowledge that you never really had.

OP 10.4.7 (online psychosis: sports message board narcissistic personality with delusion of grandeur): defined as your school is the greatest and relevant when in fact they had not won a title in any sport prior to the War of 1812.

OP 11.0.1 (online psychosis: drive by response disorder): defined as the ability to become anonymous, join a message board and post a response in order to get people upset with the hope of being immediately banned only to find another message board performing the same behavior.

OP 11.02.1 (online withdrawal psychosis: homicidal potential disorder): defined as when internet is shut down and spouse has to socially interact with a person they married only to find out that the list of "honey-do's is so extensive that no spouse in 100 years could accomplish such tasks whereas spouse contemplates life without the other; must have significant other status, psychosis and access to legitimate legally defined motive.

This may be the one post on AGS that I can't find anything to argue about. As aside, I hope Citdog doesn't think that OP 10.4.7 is purposefully directed at him for any reason.

There was a great masters thesis from the 1990s about the development of online digital common spaces and the psychological and sociological forces inherent to such communities and how they shaped the development of online social structures...

It's called "Voices From The Well"...I'm sure that any long-time AGS user will probably recognize the issues involved and can pick out the various types of posters catalogued therein...

https://dlc.dlib.indiana.edu/dlc/bitstream/handle/10535/4363/Voices_from_the_WELL.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

[citdog]

This may be the one post on AGS that I can't find anything to argue about. As aside, I hope Citdog doesn't think that OP 10.4.7 is purposefully directed at him for any reason.

There was a great masters thesis from the 1990s about the development of online digital common spaces and the psychological and sociological forces inherent to such communities and how they shaped the development of online social structures...

It's called "Voices From The Well"...I'm sure that any long-time AGS user will probably recognize the issues involved and can pick out the various types of posters catalogued therein...

https://dlc.dlib.indiana.edu/dlc/bitstream/handle/10535/4363/Voices_from_the_WELL.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Won titles in '15 and '16. That loss in '65 still hurts though. xdrunkyx

[Silenoz]

Have you looked at the stats for this in male children? I have no idea what has caused this uptick but I refuse to let Pharma off the hook because the trend lines follow the increases in vaccinations at a young age but there are all sorts of other things out there can could have an influence as well. I love the "genetics" response to this as if somehow, someway, our genetic code mutated to somehow effect only young males in the past 50 years.
I don't especially want to be dragged into one of these debates, but basically most people weren't being diagnosed with autism 50 years ago.

[Silenoz]

Can you explain why Robert F. Kennedy Jr is one of the leading proponents of anti-vaccine rhetoric? Last I checked, he is a liberal democrat and definitely left wing. I believe that the anti-vaccine rhetoric is emanating from leftists nut jobs and these tree-hugging Green New Deal socialists/progressive/communists need to be confronted before they begin their Stalinistic march by placing their Birkenstock foot on our necks.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/30/kennedy-antivaccine-crusade-disgrace/
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/robert-f-kennedy-jr-is-the-single-leading-source-of-anti-vax-ads-on-facebook/

Anti-vax is the one common ground for left and right wing. Maybe they'll figure this out someday and bond.

[clenz]

I don't especially want to be dragged into one of these debates, but basically most people weren't being diagnosed with autism 50 years ago.
Yup.

Apparently if a diagnosis didn't exist the disease didn't exist.

The first documented cases of cancer, and it being caused by things, wasn't until the 1760s or so. Apparently cancer didn't exist before then. They just died from "being sick"

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Yup.

Apparently if a diagnosis didn't exist the disease didn't exist.

The first documented cases of cancer, and it being caused by things, wasn't until the 1760s or so. Apparently cancer didn't exist before then. They just died from "being sick"



Pfft....considering life expectancy was significantly lower hundreds of years ago, I doubt there was much cancer that killed people. Flu and pneumonia and accidents probably killed most people.

[clenz]

Pfft....considering life expectancy was significantly lower hundreds of years ago, I doubt there was much cancer that killed people. Flu and pneumonia and accidents probably killed most people.Oh...good to know that, like COVI-19, cancer only goes after people over 60. Since people didn't live that long hundreds of years ago it didn't exist.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Oh...good to know that, like COVI-19, cancer only goes after people over 60. Since people didn't live that long hundreds of years ago it didn't exist.


As usual you cannot read. I never said cancer didn't exist, I'm sure it did. But common ailments now probably killed most people back then before cancer had a chance to.

[JSUSoutherner]

As usual you cannot read. I never said cancer didn't exist, I'm sure it did. But common ailments now probably killed most people back then before cancer had a chance to.

You know cancer kills young people and children pretty often, right?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

You know cancer kills young people and children pretty often, right?


Ya, my nephew died at 6 months of age from cancer he was born with.

I already know where this will go with you bloviating now. Yawn.

[JSUSoutherner]

Ya, my nephew died at 6 months of age from cancer he was born with.

I already know where this will go with you bloviating now. Yawn.

Well I'm sorry to hear about your nephew.

Honestly, your response makes me even more curious how you came to the conclusion that apparently you have to have a long life expectancy to be affected by cancer.

[clenz]

Ya, my nephew died at 6 months of age from cancer he was born with.

I already know where this will go with you bloviating now. Yawn.
Oh...you do?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Oh...you do?


Yep, between both of you 2. Pretty easy...xrolleyesx

[cx500d]

Won titles in '15 and '16. That loss in '65 still hurts though. xdrunkyx
Was that when you took a little trip with Gen’l Jackson down the mighty Missisip?

[JSUSoutherner]

Was that when you took a little trip with Gen’l Jackson down the mighty Missisip?

A.) Colonel* Jackson
B.) Citdog was but a wee lad in 1814.

[cx500d]

A.) Colonel* Jackson
B.) Citdog was but a wee lad in 1814.
By god you are right...had to watch mr Horton sing it.

[100%GRIZ]

Well when I first started this thread I was hoping it would not affect our family but things just got real. A co-worker of my Nephew tested positive here in Missoula & thank goodness we have not seen him or his girlfriend over the past month & Thank God so far he has no symptoms as of yet!

[JALMOND]

Haven't been on much due to other things going on. I'm still considered "essential" (for the time being), so I am still working. Traffic seems to be getting close to normal every passing day. The wife and kid are both considered "high-risk" due to disabilities and I have been caring for them in the evenings. Also, my father has taken a turn for the worse (non-virus related, thank God), so I'm been in contact with the rest of the family in Helena, MT about whether or not I have to head out there. The MT governor just ordered any out-of-stater to self quarantine once they enter Montana so I would not be able to see him if I went anyway so i just continue to monitor his situation there and decide when is the best time to go (even with the restrictions in place, it is more of "when" I can go and not "if" I can go). Otherwise, just watching over the wife and kid and continue working until they say I can't.

[walliver]

Pfft....considering life expectancy was significantly lower hundreds of years ago, I doubt there was much cancer that killed people. Flu and pneumonia and accidents probably killed most people.

Actually the life expectancy for adults has generally been around 70-80 for millenia. The main difference between now and then is life expectancy for infants and children. High infant mortality and deaths from childhood diseases (including appendicitis which at one time had an almost 100% mortality) had a great effect on overall life expectancy. If you managed to live to 20, you most likely would live to 70 or 80. Once large cities developed infectious diseases like the plague, cholera, and syphilis significantly shortened lifespans. Even then, the generally quoted life expectancy of 35 years was greatly influenced by infant and child mortality. Cancer was first diagnosed about 5000 years ago, there just wasn't much they could do about it. Most cancers are internal and likely wouldn't be diagnosed, but breast cancer has been quite obvious since ancient times. Since most cancers occur in older people, it didn't effect overall life expectancy that much for those reaching adulthood.

[POD Knows]

Actually the life expectancy for adults has generally been around 70-80 for millenia. The main difference between now and then is life expectancy for infants and children. High infant mortality and deaths from childhood diseases (including appendicitis which at one time had an almost 100% mortality) had a great effect on overall life expectancy. If you managed to live to 20, you most likely would live to 70 or 80. Once large cities developed infectious diseases like the plague, cholera, and syphilis significantly shortened lifespans. Even then, the generally quoted life expectancy of 35 years was greatly influenced by infant and child mortality. Cancer was first diagnosed about 5000 years ago, there just wasn't much they could do about it. Most cancers are internal and likely wouldn't be diagnosed, but breast cancer has been quite obvious since ancient times. Since most cancers occur in older people, it didn't effect overall life expectancy that much for those reaching adulthood.https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

[clenz]

https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy
Funny unintended consequence of that link

All those western european countries that have "vastly inferior" health systems all live about 4-5 years longer than Americans.....

[POD Knows]

Funny unintended consequence of that link

All those western european countries that have "vastly inferior" health systems all live about 4-5 years longer than Americans.....Yea, you don't think that it is lifestyle? Get real.

[clenz]

Yea, you don't think that it is lifestyle? Get real.
I was actually using that site for another discussion regarding drug use and alcohol use the other day

In terms of lifestyle the amount of tobacco, drug, and alcohol use is far higher in Europe. Canada has an almost identical style of life as we do.

But you're right in that lifestyle, combined with access to health care, plays into it. Europe dwarfs the US in consumption of alcohol but has a significantly lower percentage of people with alcoholism, alcohol related traffic deaths, and other alcohol related deaths.

Maybe part of it is the access to doctors that won't send them into crippling debt?

[clenz]

I was actually using that site for another discussion regarding drug use and alcohol use the other day

In terms of lifestyle the amount of tobacco, drug, and alcohol use is far higher in Europe. Canada has an almost identical style of life as we do.

But you're right in that lifestyle, combined with access to health care, plays into it. Europe dwarfs the US in consumption of alcohol but has a significantly lower percentage of people with alcoholism, alcohol related traffic deaths, and other alcohol related deaths.

Maybe part of it is the access to doctors that won't send them into crippling debt?https://i.imgur.com/ryt0FtK.png
https://i.imgur.com/r0Ej0xK.png

https://i.imgur.com/mMWdMCU.png



It can easily be linked to programs like DARE - which is actually a massive failure. Countries that take an educational approach, rather than a demonizing approach, to such things have many fewer deaths and addicts.

[POD Knows]

I was actually using that site for another discussion regarding drug use and alcohol use the other day

In terms of lifestyle the amount of tobacco, drug, and alcohol use is far higher in Europe. Canada has an almost identical style of life as we do.

But you're right in that lifestyle, combined with access to health care, plays into it. Europe dwarfs the US in consumption of alcohol but has a significantly lower percentage of people with alcoholism, alcohol related traffic deaths, and other alcohol related deaths.

Maybe part of it is the access to doctors that won't send them into crippling debt?You also have to look at this by demographics, some of the data I looked at show that Japanese Americans have longer life expectancy than their Japanese counterparts in Japan. Same with Chinese Americans. You have to drill down further here to get decent information. Also, are all of these countries using the same metrics when rolling this data up? Are they including premature deaths not attributable to "health" issues. There is a lot at play here but you guys that think the USA has in inferior health care system to the rest of the world because it isn't being run by the government are gone.

[clenz]

You also have to look at this by demographics, some of the data I looked at show that Japanese Americans have longer life expectancy than their Japanese counterparts in Japan. Same with Chinese Americans. You have to drill down further here to get decent information. Also, are all of these countries using the same metrics when rolling this data up? Are they including premature deaths not attributable to "health" issues. There is a lot at play here but you guys that think the USA has in inferior health care system to the rest of the world because it isn't being run by the government are gone.
It's the same agency compiling all the data - so all the data is the same base for all countries.

I'm not against American health care - I'm against the for profit status of it, and the costs that are associated with it. There's no reason a 500mg pill of apsirin in a hospital should cost you $50+ like it does.

The inflated nature of our health care costs is the issue. About 2 years ago I had a kidney stone that sent me to the ER to get the pain managed over night. What I was charged to lay in a bed for 4 hours, while being ignored for 3:45 of those 4 hours is pretty crazy. Didn't even have a cat scan to see how big it was. Simply given one dose of oxy and a script for an at home pain relief pill to help me until I passed it, then released. 3,200 bill for that.

[Lorne_Malvo]

There's no reason a 500mg pill of apsirin in a hospital should cost you $50+ like it does.

Liar, stop spreading misinformation.

[clenz]

I can post a link, but a website has put together price lists of the top 115 hospitals in the US - thanks to a new law that requires them to be made available/public. They've been made to be almost impossible to read by a normal person but they did a good job of compiling it all.

One example, I looked at the University of Iowa system (since it's close to me). For a walking boot they are charging $150 - some places charging up to about $400 for the same boot.

Did a Google search on that boot and you can get that exact same boot for less than $45 online. However, if you need the boot you aren't leaving the office without. You have no choice but to pay the super inflated prices.

That is the issue I have with our health care system. It is built entirely on after something happens, and then charging you asinine prices for it. It's not built for preventative care to be covered at reasonable prices. It's not built to keep things affordable. There isn't enough profit in that for CEOs and whomever else.

[clenz]

Liar, stop spreading misinformation.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ridiculous-hospital-charges


For most men, the experience of holding their newborn baby for the first time is priceless.


But for Ryan Grassley, the price tag was a bit lower — $39.95 to be exact.


That’s the amount that showed up on Grassley’s itemized bill from a hospital in Utah for “skin-to-skin” time after his son’s cesarean delivery.


https://www.thehealthy.com/healthcare/health-insurance/wildly-overinflated-hospital-costs/


https://www.vox.com/2016/5/13/11606760/emergency-facility-fees-american-health-care

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-soar-single-stitch-tops-500.html


https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/outrageous-e-r-hospital-charges-what-to-do

hat’s why a single aspirin can cost $30 per pill in, which is more than six times the price for a bottle of them at the drug store.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2009/11/18_dollar_asprin.html



I've looked at my medical bills closely. I watched us get billed $75 for a single dose of childrens benedryl when my daughter ended up in the hospital because my wife and I were treated like morons by doctors for over a week when we took her in telling them something was wrong and then finally admitted her.

The stupidly inflated price of our health care system isn't a lie. I'm not spreading any misinformation. The information is widely available.

Hell, here is a fun one

Straight from the University of Iowa Hostpital pricing book



M77454
DONEPEZIL 5 MG PO TAB30 each
$1,012.20




Donepezil is used to treat Alzheimers. They charge $1,012.20 PER PILL in the hospital if you are staying there

Want to know how much a 30 day perscription of the same 5mg pill cost? $13-$20
https://www.drugs.com/price-guide/donepezil

The cost of using the hospitals diapers if you have a new born? Over $100.

Now do you pay all of that out of pocket? Not directly. That's the rate they bill insurance. Insurance pays part of it and you pay the rest. However, the prices are set in collaberation with insurance companies to maximize profits, not care about patients.

[Lorne_Malvo]

Here Clenz, now stop it.

https://i.imgur.com/0xpJDdI.jpg

[JSUSoutherner]

https://www.thehealthy.com/healthcare/health-insurance/wildly-overinflated-hospital-costs/


https://www.vox.com/2016/5/13/11606760/emergency-facility-fees-american-health-care

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-soar-single-stitch-tops-500.html



https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2009/11/18_dollar_asprin.html



I've looked at my medical bills closely. I watched us get billed $75 for a single dose of childrens benedryl when my daughter ended up in the hospital because my wife and I were treated like morons by doctors for over a week when we took her in telling them something was wrong and then finally admitted her.

Lorne will probably tell you that you aren't old enough to know what you're talking about and block you now.

[clenz]

Lorne will probably tell you that you aren't old enough to know what you're talking about and block you now.
Meh...

If being 32 with 2 kids who have both spent significant time in hospitals with various things - including 3 ER trips this year alone - doesn't give me enough to know what I'm talking about then so be it.

I'm buried so deep in medical bills from **** because of prices that get charged and the way reimbursement works. I've learned to play the system.

Oh...and on top of that here's some fun things

My wife's job is entirely based on insurance payments. Literally outside of seeing her clients everything she does is working directly with insurance companies to get paid. Turns out running a business that relies entirely on insurance companies paying you for you to get paid teaches you a few things.

Oh...and another funny thing...

I also work in insurance - on the insurance side of it. Granted, it's commercial casualty insurance, but it's still insurance. I work in underwriting policies. Turns out I know a few things on that side of it as well.


But I'll gladly be told I don't know what I'm talking about.

[PAllen]

It's the same agency compiling all the data - so all the data is the same base for all countries.

I'm not against American health care - I'm against the for profit status of it, and the costs that are associated with it. There's no reason a 500mg pill of apsirin in a hospital should cost you $50+ like it does.

The inflated nature of our health care costs is the issue. About 2 years ago I had a kidney stone that sent me to the ER to get the pain managed over night. What I was charged to lay in a bed for 4 hours, while being ignored for 3:45 of those 4 hours is pretty crazy. Didn't even have a cat scan to see how big it was. Simply given one dose of oxy and a script for an at home pain relief pill to help me until I passed it, then released. 3,200 bill for that.

Same agency collecting data does not mean that the quality of the data is the same. Base data source is just as if not more important than the person harvesting it.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

You also have to look at this by demographics, some of the data I looked at show that Japanese Americans have longer life expectancy than their Japanese counterparts in Japan. Same with Chinese Americans. You have to drill down further here to get decent information. Also, are all of these countries using the same metrics when rolling this data up? Are they including premature deaths not attributable to "health" issues. There is a lot at play here but you guys that think the USA has in inferior health care system to the rest of the world because it isn't being run by the government are gone.



These guys think government control is the only way to better healthcare.....xcoffeex

I have close family that are medical doctors and nurses that have gone to other countries and toured their healthcare systems. They all have said, they have good points and bad points in their systems but our quality of care here in the US in unmatched by anyone else in the world. We have the best healthcare, it is just expensive. But "expensive" can be a relative term also.

[Lorne_Malvo]

Meh....

Meh. I post an actual hospital billing statement from today showing a $1.00 charge for aspirin and still you protest.
Show me one of your statements with a $50.00 charge for a aspirin and I will paypal you $50.00.
Or... just stop with the nonsense.

[Herdistheword]

After the 4 month ****show that I just spent dealing with COBRA, MNsure, and private healthcare companies, I am becoming more in favor of a centralized healthcare system everyday. Then again, there is something about healthcare being run as a for-profit business that has never really sat right with me. They have incentive to penny and dime the consumer, and that can be a dangerous thing. It also doesn’t help that there are so many little nuances between providers that billing is a nightmare and half of the agencies don’t even know if their own dang codes are correct. I may be ignorant about how to enact a better system, but I am certainly engaged enough with the current system to know that it is broken as hell. When I am paying premiums for three months and paying money out of my own pocket for medical bills for three months, because the designated employee at an insurance company can’t be bothered to push the “activate” button on my account something is wrong. Don’t worry though, I just have to painstakingly submit more documents for each and every bill I paid and trust that the insurance company will reimburse me for their incompetence.

[JSUSoutherner]

Meh. I post an actual hospital billing statement from today showing a $1.00 charge for aspirin and still you protest.
Show me one of your statements with a $50.00 charge for a aspirin and I will paypal you $50.00.
Or... just stop with the nonsense.$1 for a 3 cent aspirin tablet? What a bargain. I thought you were arguing there isn't hyperinflation in pharmaceuticals.

Honestly, your photo lends itself more to Clenz's argument than your own. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200401/2d7358bfc37cf8a57f9398b6af316640.jpg

Sent from my Galaxy S10 using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

$1 for a 3 cent aspirin tablet? What a bargain. I thought you were arguing there isn't hyperinflation in pharmaceuticals.

Honestly, your photo lends itself more to Clenz's argument than your own. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200401/2d7358bfc37cf8a57f9398b6af316640.jpg

Sent from my Galaxy S10 using TapatalkSo they made 97% margin on that at a $1.00 per. Would it shock you to know that if you walk into your local car dealer or other parts outlet and bought an O-ring that the retailer is probably making the same margin on that. Trust me, I know of what I speak. I have worked with retailers for years on matrix pricing on parts. The margins on low cost items is always considerably higher than it is on higher cost items, and the cost I am referring to is cost of goods sold.

[walliver]

This guy is doing well:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/thailand-king-self-quarantining-from-coronavirus-with-women

Or as Mel Brooks said, "It is good to be the king".

[JSUSoutherner]

So they made 97% margin on that at a $1.00 per. Would it shock you to know that if you walk into your local car dealer or other parts outlet and bought an O-ring that the retailer is probably making the same margin on that. Trust me, I know of what I speak. I have worked with retailers for years on matrix pricing on parts. The margins on low cost items is always considerably higher than it is on higher cost items, and the cost I am referring to is cost of goods sold.

My car has an electronics issue right now that at a dealer is north of a grand to fix. I bought a replacement capacitor for 6 cents off Amazon will repair the car myself.

This is why I don't go to dealers, there are better alternatives. But what alternative do you suggest I go to for my radiotherapy?

[POD Knows]

My car has an electronics issue right now that at a dealer is north of a grand to fix. I bought a replacement capacitor for 6 cents off Amazon will repair the car myself.

This is why I don't go to dealers, there are better alternatives. But what alternative do you suggest I go to for my radiotherapy?Get it from Amazon. Good luck. :D

[TheKingpin28]

Get it from Amazon. Good luck. :D

Rockauto or bust.

[POD Knows]

Rockauto or bust.I had to do some body work on that Sebring Convertible I have and I got virtually everything on line. The auto parts business has basically been taken over by the web, my industry not so much because a lot of it is specialized and low volume. I remember one time I needed a headlight assembly and a reservoir for the windshield washer fluid for this Dodge I had and the quote from the dealer was over $600 for both and they didn't have either one on hand and I got it on line, both parts, for just over $200 and got in a couple. This auto dealers do almost no business over the counter, they basically just service their shops and maybe sell some accessories or something. They surrendered that business to the web and will fitters years ago

[TheKingpin28]

I had to do some body work on that Sebring Convertible I have and I got virtually everything on line. The auto parts business has basically been taken over by the web, my industry not so much because a lot of it is specialized and low volume. I remember one time I needed a headlight assembly and a reservoir for the windshield washer fluid for this Dodge I had and the quote from the dealer was over $600 for both and they didn't have either one on hand and I got it on line, both parts, for just over $200 and got in a couple. This auto dealers do almost no business over the counter, they basically just service their shops and maybe sell some accessories or something. They surrendered that business to the web and will fitters years ago

Exactly. I needed a two new dust shields for my car. Dealerships and Auto Stores were about 60-80 for a pair. Rock Auto with delivery was like 25.00. I have no idea why, if they can fix their own cars, someone would go to the store when online is way cheaper. Usually 1/3 the cost it seems like.

[TheRevSFA]

I had to do some body work on that Sebring Convertible I have and I got virtually everything on line. The auto parts business has basically been taken over by the web, my industry not so much because a lot of it is specialized and low volume. I remember one time I needed a headlight assembly and a reservoir for the windshield washer fluid for this Dodge I had and the quote from the dealer was over $600 for both and they didn't have either one on hand and I got it on line, both parts, for just over $200 and got in a couple. This auto dealers do almost no business over the counter, they basically just service their shops and maybe sell some accessories or something. They surrendered that business to the web and will fitters years ago

Except for oil. In person sales are still dominating versus .com but that’ll be changing eventually

[JSUSoutherner]

I had to do some body work on that Sebring Convertible I have and I got virtually everything on line. The auto parts business has basically been taken over by the web, my industry not so much because a lot of it is specialized and low volume. I remember one time I needed a headlight assembly and a reservoir for the windshield washer fluid for this Dodge I had and the quote from the dealer was over $600 for both and they didn't have either one on hand and I got it on line, both parts, for just over $200 and got in a couple. This auto dealers do almost no business over the counter, they basically just service their shops and maybe sell some accessories or something. They surrendered that business to the web and will fitters years ago
I hear you can get incredible deals for headlight fluid on Craigslist.

[POD Knows]

Except for oil. In person sales are still dominating versus .com but that’ll be changing eventuallyYea, is that because shipping haz mat is a pain in the ass?

[POD Knows]

I hear you can get incredible deals for headlight fluid on Craigslist.:D Yea, I will have to check that out, headlight fluid and blow jobs, one stop shop.

[cx500d]

Except for oil. In person sales are still dominating versus .com but that’ll be changing eventually


Liquids are usually prohibitively expensive when you factor in shipping.

[FUBeAR]

FUBeAR may be seriously affected by this virus. He may go to jail for a year - http://fultoncountyboh.org/boh/media/attachments/2020/04/01/20.03.31.-fulton-county-boh-administrative-order.pdf - see page 3.

I’m ‘off’ next week & planned a couple of trips to Home Depot to get some work / projects done around the house / yard during my down time.

I have been self-quarantined for 2 weeks today, am symptom-free, plan to wear a mask, plan to maintain social distance (within gub-mint guidelines), and to practice thorough hygiene practices pre- & post-visit.

But, because my reason for leaving my residence doesn’t fall within this appointed, interim bureaucrat’s fiat which she has unilaterally put in place, essentially, permanently; I am at risk to be arrested & to be sentenced to 1 year in the Fulton County hoosegow; no doubt in solitary confinement.

Y’all come visit FUBeAR...oh, I guess that ain’t legal neither...

[cx500d]

I have a get out of jail free letter.

[JSUSoutherner]

I have a get out of jail free letter.

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about I have one as well.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I was actually using that site for another discussion regarding drug use and alcohol use the other day

In terms of lifestyle the amount of tobacco, drug, and alcohol use is far higher in Europe. Canada has an almost identical style of life as we do.

But you're right in that lifestyle, combined with access to health care, plays into it. Europe dwarfs the US in consumption of alcohol but has a significantly lower percentage of people with alcoholism, alcohol related traffic deaths, and other alcohol related deaths.

Maybe part of it is the access to doctors that won't send them into crippling debt?

Europeans drink pretty much all day long. My in laws were German and when they'd come over, holy **** they drank a lot...I mean, starting at like 9:30 am...of course American beer was like water for them....then wine at lunch, back to beer all day...then wine for dinner, an apertiff and later that evening, we'd break out the hard stuff...but, they paced themselves....they don't drink like we do. When Americans drink, it's all in, balls to the wall, let's get ****ing drunk....Europeans drink alcohol like we drink sodas....

[cx500d]

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about I have one as well.
I doubt you do...

[Bisonoline]

$1 for a 3 cent aspirin tablet? What a bargain. I thought you were arguing there isn't hyperinflation in pharmaceuticals.

Honestly, your photo lends itself more to Clenz's argument than your own. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200401/2d7358bfc37cf8a57f9398b6af316640.jpg

Sent from my Galaxy S10 using Tapatalk


You can also by hamburger at the store cheaper than you can get at Burger King. So you expect the hospital to give you the drug at cost?

[FormerPokeCenter]

It's the same agency compiling all the data - so all the data is the same base for all countries.

I'm not against American health care - I'm against the for profit status of it, and the costs that are associated with it. There's no reason a 500mg pill of apsirin in a hospital should cost you $50+ like it does.

The inflated nature of our health care costs is the issue. About 2 years ago I had a kidney stone that sent me to the ER to get the pain managed over night. What I was charged to lay in a bed for 4 hours, while being ignored for 3:45 of those 4 hours is pretty crazy. Didn't even have a cat scan to see how big it was. Simply given one dose of oxy and a script for an at home pain relief pill to help me until I passed it, then released. 3,200 bill for that.

So the charges for an individual aspirin or for prosthetic devices like walking boots, etc. is a charge for not only that item, but also the time for the nurse to administer it.

Look your car repair invoice, or your home repair invoice. You get a line item, unit explanation of the billing that includes the prices for the parts, the O&P, the tax, AND the labor charges to install it. One of the hospital bills posted shows the item, the number of doses, the time of the dosage, etc, and a charge that doesn't include the nurse's time. In addition to the administering the aspirin, the nurse has to document which orders she was following and then she's gotta document compliance, etc. That's why you see the order number listed in the itemizaiton. The nurse's time for reviewing the order, going to the dispensary, retrieving the proper medication, administering it and then documenting what was done is reflected in the "$50 per aspirin" anecdotal stories. Now, having said that, hospitals do utilize a rubric for billing that always doesn't get followed. The typical surgery might have a specific number of pain med administrations. If you've got a high pain tolerance, or are worried about addiction and don't take the pain pills, they still might show up on your bill because of the rubric the hospital uses, rather than a line-item unit cost invoice.

I've always worried about drug addiction, so I was scared of morphine when I had my knee rebuilt. As soon as I had my wits about me after surgery, I was telling them not to hit me with any more morphine....they got me immediately after surgery when I first began to open my eyes and look around the room, and then a few hours later when I was still loopy...finally, I was able to vocalize that I didn't want anymore Morphine....it showed up on the bill anyway, until I asked them to check the notes...and they corrected the invoice...taking the profit out of medicine? How ya gonna convince the best and the brightest to take up medicine if you remove profit from it...and, seriously, do you want a low bidder being your doctor???

[cx500d]

You can also by hamburger at the store cheaper than you can get at Burger King. So you expect the hospital to give you the drug at cost?
I heard you can get wine and liquor cheaper from total wine than at a restaurant

[FormerPokeCenter]

After the 4 month ****show that I just spent dealing with COBRA, MNsure, and private healthcare companies, I am becoming more in favor of a centralized healthcare system everyday. Then again, there is something about healthcare being run as a for-profit business that has never really sat right with me. They have incentive to penny and dime the consumer, and that can be a dangerous thing. It also doesn’t help that there are so many little nuances between providers that billing is a nightmare and half of the agencies don’t even know if their own dang codes are correct. I may be ignorant about how to enact a better system, but I am certainly engaged enough with the current system to know that it is broken as hell. When I am paying premiums for three months and paying money out of my own pocket for medical bills for three months, because the designated employee at an insurance company can’t be bothered to push the “activate” button on my account something is wrong. Don’t worry though, I just have to painstakingly submit more documents for each and every bill I paid and trust that the insurance company will reimburse me for their incompetence.


Healthcare and insurance are NOT the same thing. Insurance is a horrible delivery vehicle for healthcare. Insurance guards against catastrophic loss. It's not designed to pay for maintenance work. It's just not...

When you purchase homeowner's coverage, you still have to BUY the house yourself, and you still have to do the maintenance and upkeep on the house. Merely buying the insurance policy doesn't get you the house, or the upkeep on it. Same with car insurance. You still have to buy the car, and pay to maintain it.

Why, then, do we think that buying health insurance means we don't have to pay for our healthcare house or to maintain it? This outlook makes no sense.

Conflating the two separate issues are why we can't get to the bottom of the healthcare issue. It's not a health insurance issue. Health insurance covers you for specific perils, for a specific amount of time, and is subject to conditions and exclusions. What you guys propose is analagoue to paying premiums on a Yugo, and expecting to drive a Cadillac.

That's not how this works...that's not how any of it works.

[JSUSoutherner]

You can also by hamburger at the store cheaper than you can get at Burger King. So you expect the hospital to give you the drug at cost?

You can make a hamburger for 3 cents? Cause you get get a cheeseburger on the dollar menu at BK.

Also when I go to the steakhouse and order a ribeye it's not marked up 33x or more. You honestly think medical prices are acceptable? Aren't you one of the people on this site who champions for tort reform because the prices are astronomical?

[FormerPokeCenter]

Meh...

If being 32 with 2 kids who have both spent significant time in hospitals with various things - including 3 ER trips this year alone - doesn't give me enough to know what I'm talking about then so be it.

I'm buried so deep in medical bills from **** because of prices that get charged and the way reimbursement works. I've learned to play the system.

Oh...and on top of that here's some fun things

My wife's job is entirely based on insurance payments. Literally outside of seeing her clients everything she does is working directly with insurance companies to get paid. Turns out running a business that relies entirely on insurance companies paying you for you to get paid teaches you a few things.

Oh...and another funny thing...

I also work in insurance - on the insurance side of it. Granted, it's commercial casualty insurance, but it's still insurance. I work in underwriting policies. Turns out I know a few things on that side of it as well.


But I'll gladly be told I don't know what I'm talking about.

so how much time do you have on the job as a commercial casualty insurance underwriter? And how, specifically, do you think that applies to a discussion of the US healthcare system and the US Health insurance markets, which are NOT the same thing.

Apples and Oranges much?

In your capacity as an underwriter, do you ever get out of the office and go inspect the risks that your employer writes? Or are you reviewing documents and either rejecting or approving coverage based on some sort of rubric?

I've got 33 years experience in commercial property and casualty insurance on the front line as an adjuster, a claims manager, a regional claims manager, a corporate risk manager and catastrophe response director. One of the products we offered for our clients was Underwriting Inspection and Process Evaluation. It involved inspecting prospective risks and the internal operations of prospective insureds. I've crawled all over commercial property, gone over a prospective insured's operation with a fine tooth comb looking at how they operated, their safety, training, internal processes, etc. and I can tell you with absolute authority that none of that has a ****ing thing to do with how the health care industry works. None of it. Unless you're involved in some super secret casualty underwriting program that only your employer is using, then I doubt that a single solitary thing that you've done in underwriting gives you any insight at all into the health care industry.

HOWEVER, your time as a casualty underwriter should certainly have ingrained in you an understanding of why selective underwriting matters to the viability of an insurance company.

As an underwriter, does your employer offer any policies that cover routine maintenance to equipment and premises? Does your employer offer any policies that actually pay for the building or equipment if you don't already own it? I only ask because that seems to be what you want health insurance to do. You want it to pay for all costs associated with your health care. Does your employer offer any policies that are not subject to conditions, exclusions and definitions? Does your employer offer any policies that don't have a detailed explanation of how loss payments are calculated? Or do you guys pay any and all sums incurred by your insureds, regardless of causation?

I already know the answer, I'm just trying to illustrate how ridiculous it is to claim that being a Commercial Casualty Underwriter gives one any great insight into the healthcare industry.

As an aside, have you taken any of the CPCU courses yet?

[TheKingpin28]

Another round of layoffs. There were 15 of us after the first round of layoffs (started with 22) and now there are 8 of us left. This has not been easy and I just lost two good coworkers who should not have been let go IMO.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk