How are you affected by Virus?

[Bisonoline]

I heard you can get wine and liquor cheaper from total wine than at a restaurant

Imagine that.

[JSUSoutherner]

I doubt you do...
What is the nature of your get out of jail free card?

[cx500d]

What is the nature of your get out of jail free card?
That I am critical to national security and employed by the XXX and to verify by checking my ID....to paraphrase.

[JSUSoutherner]

That I am critical to national security and employed by the XXX and to verify by checking my ID....to paraphrase.

So why did the virus just now give you that authority?

[cx500d]

So why did the virus just now give you that authority?
Because of the quarantine dragnet they have in the DMV area

[JSUSoutherner]

Because of the quarantine dragnet they have in the DMV area
Because of the quarantine dragnet they have in the DMV area

Nice.

Mine keeps the cops from arresting me for breaking lockdown protocols. Which is a thing here apparently.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200402/5c708defeaec9b3cc57105ab8dd3500a.jpg

Sent from my Galaxy S10 using Tapatalk

[clenz]

I'm classified as essential for my employer - and while I am working from home, I'm one of less than 50 people in the entire company that is allowed access to our buildings if I want it.

[caribbeanhen]

I'm classified as essential for my employer - and while I am working from home, I'm one of less than 50 people in the entire company that is allowed access to our buildings if I want it.

wow

[100%GRIZ]

So the charges for an individual aspirin or for prosthetic devices like walking boots, etc. is a charge for not only that item, but also the time for the nurse to administer it.

Look your car repair invoice, or your home repair invoice. You get a line item, unit explanation of the billing that includes the prices for the parts, the O&P, the tax, AND the labor charges to install it. One of the hospital bills posted shows the item, the number of doses, the time of the dosage, etc, and a charge that doesn't include the nurse's time. In addition to the administering the aspirin, the nurse has to document which orders she was following and then she's gotta document compliance, etc. That's why you see the order number listed in the itemizaiton. The nurse's time for reviewing the order, going to the dispensary, retrieving the proper medication, administering it and then documenting what was done is reflected in the "$50 per aspirin" anecdotal stories. Now, having said that, hospitals do utilize a rubric for billing that always doesn't get followed. The typical surgery might have a specific number of pain med administrations. If you've got a high pain tolerance, or are worried about addiction and don't take the pain pills, they still might show up on your bill because of the rubric the hospital uses, rather than a line-item unit cost invoice.

I've always worried about drug addiction, so I was scared of morphine when I had my knee rebuilt. As soon as I had my wits about me after surgery, I was telling them not to hit me with any more morphine....they got me immediately after surgery when I first began to open my eyes and look around the room, and then a few hours later when I was still loopy...finally, I was able to vocalize that I didn't want anymore Morphine....it showed up on the bill anyway, until I asked them to check the notes...and they corrected the invoice...taking the profit out of medicine? How ya gonna convince the best and the brightest to take up medicine if you remove profit from it...and, seriously, do you want a low bidder being your doctor???
Well I saw somewhere the Trump administration in the near future will make Hospitals tell you the costs of medical procedures so you can shop around for the best price which does not guarantee the best care!

[FormerPokeCenter]

Well I saw somewhere the Trump administration in the near future will make Hospitals tell you the costs of medical procedures so you can shop around for the best price which does not guarantee the best care!

Selectively shopping around is a market influencer. Suddenly, when the provider knows that you're carefully looking at what they do vs another provider, then you'll see some change. Shopping around doesn't necessarily mean you go with the lowest bidder, who might skimp. It's a subtle difference, but when all things are equal, you look at price. When they're not equal, then you don't worry about price. If you're shopping for a solid Oak Armoire, then you compare apples to apples and check out the solid oak details and finish, weighing cost on an item that'll last for generations. You don't compare that with a veneered particle board product that's exponentially cheaper and will warp in simple high humidity....

[ST_Lawson]

Well I saw somewhere the Trump administration in the near future will make Hospitals tell you the costs of medical procedures so you can shop around for the best price which does not guarantee the best care!

That might work for elective procedures, but I doubt anyone's doing much shopping around if they're having a heart attack.

[walliver]

Well I saw somewhere the Trump administration in the near future will make Hospitals tell you the costs of medical procedures so you can shop around for the best price which does not guarantee the best care!

If this goes through, the hospitals will be forced to release a price, but it would rarely be the price most people pay.

Most private insurance has negotiated prices with hospitals which will be lower than the Reasonable and Customary charge ('list price"). Medicare will have variable set pricing for some services which may vary be zip code and whether or not a hospital is a "participating" facility or simply "accepts" Medicare or is a Critical Access Hospital. Medicaid generally pays 60% or so of what Medicare pays.

Generally, the only people paying full list price are the uninsured of rare people with pure fee-for-service insurance (which is now quite rare). For most uninsured people, most hospitals generally provide a large, if not complete, write-off, or offer a significant "cash discount" - though there are a few hospitals (in)famous for suing to collect.

The reason the list price is intentionally set high is that most insurance will pay the lesser of the hospitals usual fee of the insurance company's allowed fees. Hospitals then set their fees high enough to make sure they never fall below the insurance companies allowed fees.

It can be very difficult for consumers to find out what a particular procedure will cost them out of pocket, since insurance companies often consider their allowed fees to be proprietary business information.

[favorite football fan]

Call me crazy BUT Do not be surprised is these same "social justice keyboard warriors" (who are really disguised totalitarians) will claim that "message boards that do not take what the government claims as 'essential' to the greater good of society" come crawling out of the woodwork. They are starting to ban plastics, plastic straws and other things. Just wait, they are coming for all of us. The keywords of "ideal" and "essential" tend to bother me.

Do not think it cannot happen here; who would have thought we would going through such. Those people who predicted such were laughed at; now, they look like prophets with great insight. One step of ahead of someone, you are genius, two steps ahead you are a crackpot.

[Bisonoline]

If this goes through, the hospitals will be forced to release a price, but it would rarely be the price most people pay.

Most private insurance has negotiated prices with hospitals which will be lower than the Reasonable and Customary charge ('list price"). Medicare will have variable set pricing for some services which may vary be zip code and whether or not a hospital is a "participating" facility or simply "accepts" Medicare or is a Critical Access Hospital. Medicaid generally pays 60% or so of what Medicare pays.

Generally, the only people paying full list price are the uninsured of rare people with pure fee-for-service insurance (which is now quite rare). For most uninsured people, most hospitals generally provide a large, if not complete, write-off, or offer a significant "cash discount" - though there are a few hospitals (in)famous for suing to collect.

The reason the list price is intentionally set high is that most insurance will pay the lesser of the hospitals usual fee of the insurance company's allowed fees. Hospitals then set their fees high enough to make sure they never fall below the insurance companies allowed fees.

It can be very difficult for consumers to find out what a particular procedure will cost them out of pocket, since insurance companies often consider their allowed fees to be proprietary business information.

When I had my hip replaced in 2010 I called the hospital and they game me a break down of costs and what my obligation would be after insurance.
I called the doctors--surgeons office and they gave me the same.

[100%GRIZ]

sba.gov for small buiness owners under 500 employees. Everything you need to know is there! Also for non-profits & independent contractors (farmers etc.) will be provided next week on same website!

[centennial]

I can't stand this stupid optimism on the news. Optimistic that only 60k people will die vs 200k? Back of the napkin math that I did suggests we will have 3k deaths per day next week. I really really hope this social distancing works. What a royal ****ing mess. People please stay safe, don't go out if you don't have to.

Full lock down needs to happen ASAP. Now the US will need 6 weeks of a lock down. This will keep going on and on unless this is properly handled.

[walliver]

When I had my hip replaced in 2010 I called the hospital and they game me a break down of costs and what my obligation would be after insurance.
I called the doctors--surgeons office and they gave me the same.

The big exception to the situation I described is joint replacement. Many hospitals have gone to package pricing for joint replacements with a fixed cost, often including the surgeon and anesthesia fees. It hasn't spread far beyond joint replacements. however.

[favorite football fan]

Full lock down needs to happen ASAP. Now the US will need 6 weeks of a lock down. This will keep going on and on unless this is properly handled.

Martial law?

[centennial]

Martial law?

I am not in favor of martial law. Strict stay at home laws, and some common sense. Big tickets for idiots partying or no more than a few people in a limited area. Then quarantine anyone with covid, they cannot go out by law, testing 10 fold more people.

[Lorne_Malvo]

I am not in favor of martial law. Strict stay at home laws
The latter is only possible under martial law. You don't get to suspend my rights.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I am not in favor of martial law. Strict stay at home laws, and some common sense. Big tickets for idiots partying or no more than a few people in a limited area. Then quarantine anyone with covid, they cannot go out by law, testing 10 fold more people.


I think rural America is a different animal compared to urban cities. Not a "one size fits all" for all states.

- - - Updated - - -


The latter is only possible under martial law. You don't get to suspend my rights.


This here.

[centennial]

The latter is only possible under martial law. You don't get to suspend my rights.

Rights end when they start encroachment on other people's health and wellbeing. For example the use of free speech to incite racism/ hate crime is not an appropriate use.

People with asymptomatic corona wuhan virus need to stay home/ on their property. Their needs for essentials can be met with the National Guard. Once they test negative twice the quarantine can be lifted. Folks that have antibodies and no virus can be allowed to run essential services.

[Lorne_Malvo]

Rights end when they start encroachment on other people's health and wellbeing. For example the use of free speech to incite racism/ hate crime is not an appropriate use.

People with asymptomatic corona wuhan virus need to stay home/ on their property. Their needs for essentials can be met with the National Guard. Once they test negative twice the quarantine can be lifted. Folks that have antibodies and no virus can be allowed to run essential services.
Sorry, no. My rights do not end because you think they should.
Driving a car encroaches on other peoples safety and "wellbeing".
The government can stay the hell out of my life, they cannot deny me my God given right to be free without a crime, a trial and a guilty verdict.

[Bisonoline]

]Rights end when they start encroachment on other people's health and wellbeing. [/B]For example the use of free speech to incite racism/ hate crime is not an appropriate use.

People with asymptomatic corona wuhan virus need to stay home/ on their property. Their needs for essentials can be met with the National Guard. Once they test negative twice the quarantine can be lifted. Folks that have antibodies and no virus can be allowed to run essential services.

So you are for vaccinations?

[centennial]

Sorry, no. My rights do not end because you think they should.
Driving a car encroaches on other peoples safety and "wellbeing".
The government can stay the hell out of my life, they cannot deny me my God given right to be free without a crime, a trial and a guilty verdict.

This ridiculous take will cause this disease to kill thousands upon thousands of Americans. Enjoy your God given freedom.


So you are for vaccinations?
Of course. We went over this before.

[favorite football fan]

Rights end when they start encroachment on other people's health and wellbeing. For example the use of free speech to incite racism/ hate crime is not an appropriate use. People with asymptomatic corona wuhan virus need to stay home/ on their property. Their needs for essentials can be met with the National Guard. Once they test negative twice the quarantine can be lifted. Folks that have antibodies and no virus can be allowed to run essential services.

So, shred the Bill of Rights? And WHO (not the World Health Organization) decides to suspend rights and where they begin and end? Suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus? Let's see here, my exhaust from my car is the cause of or exacerbates your asthma yet I have the right to drive a car; thus, my rights end because it affects your health? If you go down this road, those climate change advocates who want the elimination of all fossil fuels will have precedence to suspend your rights. If my rights end with other's health, then staying in my own property can be problematic as my property can be seized by the govt because it does not meet the govt regulation to be a "lawful" or "regulated" quarantine. If I have Wuhan virus yet asymptomatic and forced to stay inside, a National Guard member, who is probably armed, can only come to my property to give me essentials that the govt deems is/are essential. Thus, if I want to buy peanut M&M's, the National Guard could say, by way of the govt regulation, that such is "non-essential" goods for your well-being. Plus, what is stopping a govt official from coming into your home and confiscating your property? Yes, sounds like a slippery slope but why wait to find out?

I find your "soft" martial law to be quite disturbing and goes against a person's rights as guaranteed by the Constitution. I believe your tune would change if you were on the receiving end of such an arrangement. But this is typical of comments from folks of this type of thinking. In the state of "caring", tyranny can be soon be nearby. Even the communists would round people up and ship them to gulags because "they cared."

[Bisonoline]

This ridiculous take will cause this disease to kill thousands upon thousands of Americans. Enjoy your God given freedom.


Of course. We went over this before.

Good!

[favorite football fan]

Rights end when they start encroachment on other people's health and wellbeing. For example the use of free speech to incite racism/ hate crime is not an appropriate use. People with asymptomatic corona wuhan virus need to stay home/ on their property. Their needs for essentials can be met with the National Guard. Once they test negative twice the quarantine can be lifted. Folks that have antibodies and no virus can be allowed to run essential services.

We see that the above is problematic when there is fear attached to a national crisis. This is what led to the "detainment camps" of WW2 when the govt moved thousands of Japanese-Americans to such camps; no different than the Salem Witch Trials; no different than when the Black Plague hit Europe, Jews were murdered because they were accused of starting it.

Why not simply round up those individuals who have the virus but are asymptomatic and put them in specially built camps? Put them in these isolation camps for 14 days (or more if we decide and until we decide it is safe, which could be months or even years). Better yet, the best way to stop the spread is to simply execute those who have it? (I have no doubt the Chi-Coms have done this now)

But what if I rent my place or live in an apartment where there are others? Is this not in violation of your "suspend other's rights that encroaches upon your health" doctrine? Are you going to have armed guards, with hazmat suits and M-16s "guard" them to make sure that they do not "get out"?

You noted: "Folks that have antibodies and no virus can be allowed to run essential services." And how would you know that they have the anti-bodies? Go to a govt controlled facility, under armed force of the authorities, to be tested?

And what, according to your doctrine, is/are considered essential services? Govt needs to "run and/or control" the entire economy? Why not just nationalize all business' and cede all authority to the govt? And to pay for all these "tests" and "armed guards", why not just confiscate their bank accounts and their private property to pay for these "tests" and "guards" and "authorities to force people to comply with the laws"?

Did you know that our own federal govt did not cancel the NCAA tourney or the spring seasons? This was done by the NCAA not the federal govt. In your doctrine, do you see the govt telling us when we can play ball or not?

[BisonTru]

My god gave me the right to quarantine people as I see fit to protect themselves and society.

He also gave me the right to take and distribute your money as I see fit.

Those are my God given rights.

[POD Knows]

My god gave me the right to quarantine people as I see fit to protect themselves and society.

He also gave me the right to take and distribute your money as I see fit.

Those are my God given rights.My God gave me the right to put a bullet between the eyes of a thief.

[The Yo Show]

SO if football is played, does anyone think that states that don't have stay at home orders and have football athletes on site to do weight training are going to have a big advantage over schools in other states where that is currently banned and they are not on campus training?

[cx500d]

SO if football is played, does anyone think that states that don't have stay at home orders and have football athletes on site to do weight training are going to have a big advantage over schools in other states where that is currently banned and they are not on campus training?

I heard the entire UND football team has self-quarantined in the weight room.

[favorite football fan]

SO if football is played, does anyone think that states that don't have stay at home orders and have football athletes on site to do weight training are going to have a big advantage over schools in other states where that is currently banned and they are not on campus training?

My opinion is this: there will be a domino effect;
1. the second that a campus "opens" up and allows students on campus, EVERYONE else will follow in rapid succession.

2. However, once the NCAA says "we will play a season", then every campus prez will open up their campuses and have the students return.

3. However, once the word comes down that:
a. "it is safe to return to work" OR
b. people will say "to heck with it, I am going out, forget this stay at home order" OR
c. the govt senses that "the natives are getting restless", THEN the domino effect will occur.

The last thing the politicians want are people losing their collective minds. The longer this thing lasts and people begin to be more worried NOT about their health but about their financial health, THEN the domino topple will begin. You can only suppress people from their normal lifestyle for so long before people begin to exhibit their natural desire for freedom. No different that watching a Frankenstein movie from the 1930's for the first time. Wow, that was scary. Today, it is more of a comedy. You start to wonder when Frankenstein is going to break out in a song.

But I read an article about AD's and college presidents: someone asked a college president if they can play football without students on campus? The response: no, the football players are students. Once the big time college presidents start to see the cash crunch REALLY hit home, then things will change and I believe it is REALLY close.

You simply cannot wait until a "vaccine" comes out in 18 months. I doubt people will tolerate that as you cannot keep people scared for that long before people start getting really bored. Scare people to death and then bore them to death.

[WileECoyote06]

College presidents are risk-adverse. There is not one who will risk being named in lawsuits just for a sport. If the "NCAA" says "we will play a season", it is the college presidents saying "we will play a season." Who do you think makes up the NCAA's membership? There's no domino to fall; either it's safe to play or it's not.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I don't even think it's about whether or not it's safe to "play" per se....I think the big concern is if it's safe to have large gatherings of people on campus....right now, that answer is no. I think it's still gonna be "no" in August. Once a vaccine is in place, then I think you'll see them say, "Okay" let's schedule some games...before a vaccine is available, no way...like you said, none of them wanna get sued. I think they want/need the "well, you shoulda gotten inoculated" defense....

[100%GRIZ]

This is definitely a war now. In war you have to adapt & if that means you miss a college football season so be it. If I am not mistaken they missed college football during WWII & even possibly WWI!

[Professor Chaos]

Well, I said two weeks ago just wait two weeks until we have a better idea of the virus' trajectory before talking about impacts to college football season and my time is up so here goes... not only does it seem unlikely that schools and athletic departments are going to risk becoming pariahs by holding these large gatherings for sporting events but fans are going to be too freaked to even be interested in going. I saw an article on ESPN.com yesterday that said that 72% of fans surveyed said they would not go to a live sporting event until there is a vaccine available.

The catch-22 we're in is that the more successful we are at controlling the spread the longer that spread will last and events into next fall and winter will then be put in jeopardy. I'm not saying we should let the virus rip through unchecked in the hopes it peters out by the fall, I'm just pointing out the unfortunate irony of our current approach and it's effect on when we can get back to normalcy. Personally, I think there's a lot more important things from an economic perspective that need to be resumed before we clamor for sporting events.

One last thing; for the big-time college programs playing games with no fans might be an option due to the monster TV contracts they have but I don't see that being feasible for FCS programs. Ticket and gameday revenue is about the only way most FCS programs generate (non-subsidized) revenue so they're going to put their football budgets even further into the red if they decide to play without fans.

[favorite football fan]

A vaccine won't be ready for 18 months minimum. But I believe the damage has been done and the "plan-demic" is controlling us and our behavior. We have become a society of hysterical hypochondriacs and germ-phobics. When Fauci said "we will no longer be able to shake hands", well, you can see why I believe this is a "plan-demic". These public health people now have the power they have always craved.

But back to football.

[For the big-time college programs playing games with no fans might be an option due to the monster TV contracts they have but I don't see that being feasible for FCS programs.]

I am going to disagree; these football players are still considered "students"; you cannot extend a benefit to a student-athlete that a regular student cannot partake in.

https://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2020/4/9/21215635/wisconsin-badgers-senior-spring-athletes-will-not-be-given-extra-year-eligibility-barry-alvarez

From the article:
According to a Madison.com piece by Todd Milewski (https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/wisconsin-badgers-seniors-wont-return-to-spring-sports-in-2021-athletic-department-says/article_32a85306-19dc-5969-9a61-d6608992eea4.html), one of the reasons that Alvarez gave for not offering was the waivers was that it would be unfair to other students who weren’t atheltes. “One of the arguments against having senior athletes return for another season, Alvarez said, was that other students won’t get a chance to finish a semester of studying abroad or be able to take part in a final musical performance that was canceled,” Milewski noted.

The point I am going to make here is this: since these are students who play football, you cannot simply play football games but not allow the music majors to perform their recitals or not have members of the band be able to play. What? The football players are allowed on campus to play games yet other students are not?

Even if you "test" the student-athletes and "check their temperatures", you mean other students, who are not athletes, do not get the same benefit? You mean faculty and staff are not allowed to get the same benefit? You mean, the coaches get to have meetings with their students in a large gathering but a faculty member cannot hold a class? Oh, administration gets the benefit of "going to the games" and "having tests" provided to them? Those liberal faculty who believe in the concept of "shared governance" will raise a fit.

[Professor Chaos]

A vaccine won't be ready for 18 months minimum. But I believe the damage has been done and the "plan-demic" is controlling us and our behavior. We have become a society of hysterical hypochondriacs and germ-phobics. When Fauci said "we will no longer be able to shake hands", well, you can see why I believe this is a "plan-demic". These public health people now have the power they have always craved.

But back to football.

[For the big-time college programs playing games with no fans might be an option due to the monster TV contracts they have but I don't see that being feasible for FCS programs.]

I am going to disagree; these football players are still considered "students"; you cannot extend a benefit to a student-athlete that a regular student cannot partake in.

https://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2020/4/9/21215635/wisconsin-badgers-senior-spring-athletes-will-not-be-given-extra-year-eligibility-barry-alvarez

From the article:
According to a Madison.com piece by Todd Milewski (https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/wisconsin-badgers-seniors-wont-return-to-spring-sports-in-2021-athletic-department-says/article_32a85306-19dc-5969-9a61-d6608992eea4.html), one of the reasons that Alvarez gave for not offering was the waivers was that it would be unfair to other students who weren’t atheltes. “One of the arguments against having senior athletes return for another season, Alvarez said, was that other students won’t get a chance to finish a semester of studying abroad or be able to take part in a final musical performance that was canceled,” Milewski noted.

The point I am going to make here is this: since these are students who play football, you cannot simply play football games but not allow the music majors to perform their recitals or not have members of the band be able to play. What? The football players are allowed on campus to play games yet other students are not?

Even if you "test" the student-athletes and "check their temperatures", you mean other students, who are not athletes, do not get the same benefit? You mean faculty and staff are not allowed to get the same benefit? You mean, the coaches get to have meetings with their students in a large gathering but a faculty member cannot hold a class? Oh, administration gets the benefit of "going to the games" and "having tests" provided to them? Those liberal faculty who believe in the concept of "shared governance" will raise a fit.
Why would it be an extra benefit to allow them to play games with no fans? If the NCAA does allow play they would either say no fans in attendance or leave it up to the individual schools/conferences to decide if they want to have fans in attendance or not. So it would be up to the conference/schools to decide if they can have a season under that model. The SEC doesn't owe the Southland Conference anything. There have been examples at lower levels of collegiate sports of some schools cancelling seasons when others have not.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

A vaccine won't be ready for 18 months minimum. But I believe the damage has been done and the "plan-demic" is controlling us and our behavior. We have become a society of hysterical hypochondriacs and germ-phobics. When Fauci said "we will no longer be able to shake hands", well, you can see why I believe this is a "plan-demic". These public health people now have the power they have always craved.

But back to football.

[For the big-time college programs playing games with no fans might be an option due to the monster TV contracts they have but I don't see that being feasible for FCS programs.]

I am going to disagree; these football players are still considered "students"; you cannot extend a benefit to a student-athlete that a regular student cannot partake in.

https://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2020/4/9/21215635/wisconsin-badgers-senior-spring-athletes-will-not-be-given-extra-year-eligibility-barry-alvarez

From the article:
According to a Madison.com piece by Todd Milewski (https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/wisconsin-badgers-seniors-wont-return-to-spring-sports-in-2021-athletic-department-says/article_32a85306-19dc-5969-9a61-d6608992eea4.html), one of the reasons that Alvarez gave for not offering was the waivers was that it would be unfair to other students who weren’t atheltes. “One of the arguments against having senior athletes return for another season, Alvarez said, was that other students won’t get a chance to finish a semester of studying abroad or be able to take part in a final musical performance that was canceled,” Milewski noted.

The point I am going to make here is this: since these are students who play football, you cannot simply play football games but not allow the music majors to perform their recitals or not have members of the band be able to play. What? The football players are allowed on campus to play games yet other students are not?

Even if you "test" the student-athletes and "check their temperatures", you mean other students, who are not athletes, do not get the same benefit? You mean faculty and staff are not allowed to get the same benefit? You mean, the coaches get to have meetings with their students in a large gathering but a faculty member cannot hold a class? Oh, administration gets the benefit of "going to the games" and "having tests" provided to them? Those liberal faculty who believe in the concept of "shared governance" will raise a fit.



I agree with this!

[favorite football fan]

Why would it be an extra benefit to allow them to play games with no fans? If the NCAA does allow play they would either say no fans in attendance or leave it up to the individual schools/conferences to decide if they want to have fans in attendance or not. So it would be up to the conference/schools to decide if they can have a season under that model. The SEC doesn't owe the Southland Conference anything. There have been examples at lower levels of collegiate sports of some schools cancelling seasons when others have not.

Because it IS an extra benefit. It's not about the fans, its about the students playing and partaking in a university sponsored function when other students are not permitted to attend. Remember, these are STUDENT-athletes. They are representatives of the university. While you may think that athletic departments are individual entities similar to a professional football team or franchise, the fact is that they are not.

If football players are allowed, then you HAVE to open up the other sports; if you open up the other sports, then you have to open up the university. If a game is played at a stadium that is on the campus of the university, then the university would have to be open. If your games are played "off-campus" then the facility managers that run the stadium, typically a municipal entity, would be technically open AND that means that other entities and/or facilities would have to be open.

And who is to say that the Power 5 would be allowed to play? And only football due to TV? Well then, if it is TV money, then the NFL would never have shut down; neither would have the NBA and MLB. And if it was TV money, then the NCAA would not have shut the tournament down.

[There have been examples at lower levels of collegiate sports of some schools cancelling seasons when others have not.]

Please show me the evidence of this.

[Professor Chaos]

Because it IS an extra benefit. It's not about the fans, its about the students playing and partaking in a university sponsored function when other students are not permitted to attend. Remember, these are STUDENT-athletes. They are representatives of the university. While you may think that athletic departments are individual entities similar to a professional football team or franchise, the fact is that they are not.

If football players are allowed, then you HAVE to open up the other sports; if you open up the other sports, then you have to open up the university. If a game is played at a stadium that is on the campus of the university, then the university would have to be open. If your games are played "off-campus" then the facility managers that run the stadium, typically a municipal entity, would be technically open AND that means that other entities and/or facilities would have to be open.

And who is to say that the Power 5 would be allowed to play? And only football due to TV? Well then, if it is TV money, then the NFL would never have shut down; neither would have the NBA and MLB. And if it was TV money, then the NCAA would not have shut the tournament down.

[There have been examples at lower levels of collegiate sports of some schools cancelling seasons when others have not.]

Please show me the evidence of this.
You're making this way more complicated than it has to be. First off the NCAA and the conferences will decide if their fall sports will be played and they aren't going to allow football to be played without the other fall sports also being allowed to play. I'd also guarantee you that zero sports will be played if colleges are still completely online by next fall.

What I'm saying is if they move forward with college sports in the fall but the big schools (who will drive this decision) decide that they'll play but without fans that model likely not work for the FCS because the TV money or lack thereof doesn't make it worth it. In that scenario nobody from the outside is going to tell the MVFC that they can't play football, it'll be a decision made by the conference/schools.

[favorite football fan]

You're making this way more complicated than it has to be.

No, I am not making it more complicated; in fact, I made it more simple to understand why your point is totally incorrect.

[First off the NCAA and the conferences will decide if their fall sports will be played and they aren't going to allow football to be played without the other fall sports also being allowed to play.]

Correct. And this is because of what I noted. If you allow one to play, you have to allow the others; then you have to open the university in order to play; if you are able to play, you should be able to have classes on campus. Faculty and staff will return to campus. If the NCAA does allow football to be played, EVERYONE else in the USA will follow suit.

[I'd also guarantee you that zero sports will be played if colleges are still completely online by next fall.]

This is quite correct; contingency plans are being made while we speak, err excuse me, while we type (we cannot speak as that would violate the socialist's/Marxist/martial law control of our lives and violate the doctrine of social distancing). Advising and enrollment management will continue with the hopes of maintaining the academic integrity of institutions and their survivability; campus' right now are going exclusively online without athletics and this would not be unusual if there is no football in the fall. The point is that universities/colleges are closed to people. Which is why I am correct in my assessment that there will not be "football played without fans". Football will not be played unless universities are open regardless of TV money. The minute you allow a Power 5 to play, the others will clamor for their ability to play as well and then the dominos will fall which will open the universities. Power 5 might appear to run the NCAA but there are FCS and non-power 5 presidents in the mix and some of these non-power 5 presidents hail from basketball schools.


[What I'm saying is if they move forward with college sports in the fall but the big schools (who will drive this decision) decide that they'll play but without fans that model likely not work for the FCS because the TV money or lack thereof doesn't make it worth it.]

Wrong. If Power 5 moves forward to play without fans, then everyone else will follow suit. FCS will clamor to play without fans as well. What? Power 5 players are somehow "immune" to Wuhan virus? And if you move forward to play without fans, you have to extend the benefit to students who are not athletes who are in band and music and every one else involved. You can have a music recital without fans; you can have concert chorale without fans. But wait, that means that a college concert choir will have people in close proximity to each other; hmmm,,,looks like I just blew your concept out of the water.

But wait, what about the support staff for football? the coaches? the athletic trainers? the equipment people? the TV people? the referees? well, you just messed up because you now have MORE people in a stadium with no fans; let's see here, let's do the math:
100 football players X 2 teams = 200 people
10 coaches x 2 teams = 20 people
5 medical staff x 2 teams = 10 people
5 equipment x 2 teams = 10 people
7 referees with 1 backup = 8 people
TV people? who knows, so lets guess 12 to 20 cameras with electrical people = 30

My goodness, we have approximately 270 people in close approximation to each potentially. You could argue the TV people are far removed but the close proximity you still have 200 people. Well, that just violated the "stay at home order" and "the Marxist distancing policy"; referees blowing their whistles under the face masks.

[In that scenario nobody from the outside is going to tell the MVFC that they can't play football, it'll be a decision made by the conference/schools.]

If one conference plays games, then everyone else will. But let's say NDSU says "screw it, we are going to play"; the governor can step in and say no. But let's say that NDSU says "screw the governor, we are going to play". The team that is going to play NDSU, who is out of state may say "uh no, we ain't going there for all the tea in Wuhan"

AND if the MVFC says they are going to play and play without fans, then this Wuhan crisis will be considered OVER.

[Professor Chaos]

No, I am not making it more complicated; in fact, I made it more simple to understand why your point is totally incorrect.

[First off the NCAA and the conferences will decide if their fall sports will be played and they aren't going to allow football to be played without the other fall sports also being allowed to play.]

Correct. And this is because of what I noted. If you allow one to play, you have to allow the others; then you have to open the university in order to play; if you are able to play, you should be able to have classes on campus. Faculty and staff will return to campus. If the NCAA does allow football to be played, EVERYONE else in the USA will follow suit.

[I'd also guarantee you that zero sports will be played if colleges are still completely online by next fall.]

This is quite correct; contingency plans are being made while we speak, err excuse me, while we type (we cannot speak as that would violate the socialist's/Marxist/martial law control of our lives and violate the doctrine of social distancing). Advising and enrollment management will continue with the hopes of maintaining the academic integrity of institutions and their survivability; campus' right now are going exclusively online without athletics and this would not be unusual if there is no football in the fall. The point is that universities/colleges are closed to people. Which is why I am correct in my assessment that there will not be "football played without fans". Football will not be played unless universities are open regardless of TV money. The minute you allow a Power 5 to play, the others will clamor for their ability to play as well and then the dominos will fall which will open the universities. Power 5 might appear to run the NCAA but there are FCS and non-power 5 presidents in the mix and some of these non-power 5 presidents hail from basketball schools.


[What I'm saying is if they move forward with college sports in the fall but the big schools (who will drive this decision) decide that they'll play but without fans that model likely not work for the FCS because the TV money or lack thereof doesn't make it worth it.]

Wrong. If Power 5 moves forward to play without fans, then everyone else will follow suit. FCS will clamor to play without fans as well. What? Power 5 players are somehow "immune" to Wuhan virus? And if you move forward to play without fans, you have to extend the benefit to students who are not athletes who are in band and music and every one else involved. You can have a music recital without fans; you can have concert chorale without fans. But wait, that means that a college concert choir will have people in close proximity to each other; hmmm,,,looks like I just blew your concept out of the water.

But wait, what about the support staff for football? the coaches? the athletic trainers? the equipment people? the TV people? the referees? well, you just messed up because you now have MORE people in a stadium with no fans; let's see here, let's do the math:
100 football players X 2 teams = 200 people
10 coaches x 2 teams = 20 people
5 medical staff x 2 teams = 10 people
5 equipment x 2 teams = 10 people
7 referees with 1 backup = 8 people
TV people? who knows, so lets guess 12 to 20 cameras with electrical people = 30

My goodness, we have approximately 270 people in close approximation to each potentially. You could argue the TV people are far removed but the close proximity you still have 200 people. Well, that just violated the "stay at home order" and "the Marxist distancing policy"; referees blowing their whistles under the face masks.

[In that scenario nobody from the outside is going to tell the MVFC that they can't play football, it'll be a decision made by the conference/schools.]

If one conference plays games, then everyone else will. But let's say NDSU says "screw it, we are going to play"; the governor can step in and say no. But let's say that NDSU says "screw the governor, we are going to play". The team that is going to play NDSU, who is out of state may say "uh no, we ain't going there for all the tea in Wuhan"

AND if the MVFC says they are going to play and play without fans, then this Wuhan crisis will be considered OVER.
TV and the P5 drive the boat here my windy friend. I'll say it again... the NCAA will not stop certain schools or conferences from playing. It's all or nothing in terms of what schools and what sports are allowed to play from the NCAA's perspective and this decision will follow the lead of governments and health organizations. But if the NCAA says you can play it doesn't mean you have to play. If the stipulation to play is you can't have fans in attendance the SEC and the B1G are not going to be stopped from playing and collecting their giant TV payouts just because the OVC and the SOCON are worried their football programs will lose couple million each in gameday revenue without fans. And you'd better believe that Alabama will hold all the spectator-less music recitals and choir concerts that they'll need to in order to ensure they still collect that TV money for football.

I saw an article about Ohio State's AD mentioning the same concerns you have questioning why it would be safe for the players but not for fans and I'd have to assume you both are being intentionally naïve to try to drive home a subliminal point. Or do you really not understand the difference in the potential ramifications of an outbreak and the corresponding prevention methods between a group of 270 people and a group of 100,000+?

[favorite football fan]

You're making this way more complicated than it has to be.

Like manna from heaven.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29021401/buckeyes-ad-gene-smith-not-safe-fans-gather-why-athletes

From the article:
"But I figured if we don't have fans in the stands, we've determined it's not safe for them in a gathering environment. So why would it be safe for the players?"

"He repeatedly praised Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine for making "some tough early decisions" to impose social distancing restrictions in the state, noting it could result in Ohio State students returning to campus sooner."

"You have 100 football players; it's hard to social distance in the locker room or training room," Smith said. "We have to get to a place where it's OK for those group dynamics to occur. I have to rely on the experts on that, because we cannot put our kids at risk."

"Smith said any decisions about when football teams reassemble and the 2020 season must be made nationally with all the FBS conferences."

hmmm..not all FBS conferences are Power 5.

[Milktruck74]

I'm jumpin in late here, and not about to read all 30pages of the thread...but this went in a wildly different direction from the initial post...that said, the NCAA was seriously considering having March Madness in empty arenas. The revenue loss to them is HUGE. That said, if they can play games, even if the stadiums are empty...get ready for PPV Football.They will make their $$$$, and milk the lower tier schools while doing it.

[Redbird 4th & short]

This ridiculous take will cause this disease to kill thousands upon thousands of Americans. Enjoy your God given freedom.


Of course. We went over this before.

Centennial .. you make much more sense to me than the others.

Some basic numbers to put this Covid-19 into perspective for the United States.

- the US population makes up just over 4% of the world population: 330m of 7.7b

- the US Coronavirus Cases make up 30% of the world cases: appraoching 470k out of 1.6m, and we're still outpacing the rest of world combined, which means this 30% is still increasing, relative to rest of world.

- the US Coronavirus Deaths make up 17% of of the world deaths: 16k out of 90k, and again we're still outpacing rest of world combined.

As for the US Death Rates (per day per Million), check out below attachment. Compare the US trend line with Italy and South Korea trend lines. We're much closer to Italy (3 weeks ago) than we are to South Korea. We could have responded like South Korea, but we didn't and nor we're we prepared to. But right now, we're looking a lot like Italy. Though it is possible and likely IMO, we won't continue to look as much like Italy gor forward, as qwe have historically. But the next 10 days are going to be telling and very difficult in terms of our death rate. The 16,000 deaths to date could approach 40,000 or more before we start to bend that curve in 10-14 days. Considering how slow we were to ramp up testing, it will take longer to bend that curve.

Back to my original point ... we make up 4% of the world population, but over 30% of the Covid-19 cases. Further problem is, our numbers are still outpacing the rest of the world .. meaning, in short term, our numbers are still getting worse. This is why every chart of US shows us with the steepest curve .. not just counts, which are misleading, but per capita numbers too.

p.s. I'm totally ignoring any number out of China ... not to be believed.

[Bisonoline]

Centennial .. you make much more sense to me than the others.

Some basic numbers to put this Covid-19 into perspective for the United States.

- the US population makes up just over 4% of the world population: 330m of 7.7b



- the US Coronavirus Cases make up 30% of the world cases: appraoching 470k out of 1.6m, and we're still outpacing the rest of world combined, which means this 30% is still increasing, relative to rest of world.

- the US Coronavirus Deaths make up 17% of of the world deaths: 16k out of 90k, and again we're still outpacing rest of world combined.

As for the US Death Rates (per day per Million), check out below attachment. Compare the US trend line with Italy and South Korea trend lines. We're much closer to Italy (3 weeks ago) than we are to South Korea. We could have responded like South Korea, but we didn't and nor we're we prepared to. But right now, we're looking a lot like Italy. Though it is possible and likely IMO, we won't continue to look as much like Italy gor forward, as qwe have historically. But the next 10 days are going to be telling and very difficult in terms of our death rate. The 16,000 deaths to date could approach 40,000 or more before we start to bend that curve in 10-14 days. Considering how slow we were to ramp up testing, it will take longer to bend that curve.

Back to my original point ... we make up 4% of the world population, but over 30% of the Covid-19 cases. Further problem is, our numbers are still outpacing the rest of the world .. meaning, in short term, our numbers are still getting worse. This is why every chart of US shows us with the steepest curve .. not just counts, which are misleading, but per capita numbers too.

p.s. I'm totally ignoring any number out of China ... not to be believed.

Our death rate is only 4%.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Centennial .. you make much more sense to me than the others.

Some basic numbers to put this Covid-19 into perspective for the United States.

- the US population makes up just over 4% of the world population: 330m of 7.7b

- the US Coronavirus Cases make up 30% of the world cases: appraoching 470k out of 1.6m, and we're still outpacing the rest of world combined, which means this 30% is still increasing, relative to rest of world.

- the US Coronavirus Deaths make up 17% of of the world deaths: 16k out of 90k, and again we're still outpacing rest of world combined.

As for the US Death Rates (per day per Million), check out below attachment. Compare the US trend line with Italy and South Korea trend lines. We're much closer to Italy (3 weeks ago) than we are to South Korea. We could have responded like South Korea, but we didn't and nor we're we prepared to. But right now, we're looking a lot like Italy. Though it is possible and likely IMO, we won't continue to look as much like Italy gor forward, as qwe have historically. But the next 10 days are going to be telling and very difficult in terms of our death rate. The 16,000 deaths to date could approach 40,000 or more before we start to bend that curve in 10-14 days. Considering how slow we were to ramp up testing, it will take longer to bend that curve.

Back to my original point ... we make up 4% of the world population, but over 30% of the Covid-19 cases. Further problem is, our numbers are still outpacing the rest of the world .. meaning, in short term, our numbers are still getting worse. This is why every chart of US shows us with the steepest curve .. not just counts, which are misleading, but per capita numbers too.

p.s. I'm totally ignoring any number out of China ... not to be believed.




Why is this?

Underlying conditions of the American population? Overweight, diabetes, HBP, heart disease....etc...…

Maybe if Americans would take "health" more seriously that maybe things like this might be as severe.....or is thing actually that severe? Just questions to ask....

[Professor Chaos]

Centennial .. you make much more sense to me than the others.

Some basic numbers to put this Covid-19 into perspective for the United States.

- the US population makes up just over 4% of the world population: 330m of 7.7b

- the US Coronavirus Cases make up 30% of the world cases: appraoching 470k out of 1.6m, and we're still outpacing the rest of world combined, which means this 30% is still increasing, relative to rest of world.

- the US Coronavirus Deaths make up 17% of of the world deaths: 16k out of 90k, and again we're still outpacing rest of world combined.

As for the US Death Rates (per day per Million), check out below attachment. Compare the US trend line with Italy and South Korea trend lines. We're much closer to Italy (3 weeks ago) than we are to South Korea. We could have responded like South Korea, but we didn't and nor we're we prepared to. But right now, we're looking a lot like Italy. Though it is possible and likely IMO, we won't continue to look as much like Italy gor forward, as qwe have historically. But the next 10 days are going to be telling and very difficult in terms of our death rate. The 16,000 deaths to date could approach 40,000 or more before we start to bend that curve in 10-14 days. Considering how slow we were to ramp up testing, it will take longer to bend that curve.

Back to my original point ... we make up 4% of the world population, but over 30% of the Covid-19 cases. Further problem is, our numbers are still outpacing the rest of the world .. meaning, in short term, our numbers are still getting worse. This is why every chart of US shows us with the steepest curve .. not just counts, which are misleading, but per capita numbers too.

p.s. I'm totally ignoring any number out of China ... not to be believed.
Most signs are indicating that we're at or near the peak right now. Also, the United States has run over 1M more tests than any other country. I'd almost guarantee you that if Italy, Spain, or France would have run 2.5M tests by now they would have more positive cases than the US. Our cases per capita and deaths per capita are still well under many European countries.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Assuming most people, won't open the CDC chart attached, or may not like reading charts ... here are the data points I cited comparing Italy to US, in terms of when each country hit, 2, 4, and 6 deaths per day per Million of population:

Italy hit 2 on 3/9, 4 on 3/14, and 6 on 3/16 ... then eventually hit 16 on 3/28 (their peak), and current at 10 on 4/8

U.S. hit 2 on 3/31, 4 on 4/5, and near 6 on 4/8 .... all 22-23 days after Italy hit similar numbers

Note, the consistent 22-23 day lag on those Death Rates. The question is will we continue on this trendline like Italy was on going to 16 deaths per day per Million on 3/28. If so, 22 days later would be 4/20 for the U.S . the next 10-14 days are very critical.

To put this level in perspective, since Italy hit 6 on March 16th, they have averaged about 12 deaths per day per Million thru April 8th. That is a 23 day period over which they average 12 deaths per day per Milion. If we were to continue on this track, like Italy .. 12 deaths x 330 (per Million) x 23 days = 91,000 more deaths in US over the next 23 days .. if we continue on same trend line as Italy. I don't necessarily believe we won't do better, but that is just to give you an idea how big an averate rate of 12 deaths would translate in the US.

Again, I tend to believe, we will NOT continue on the same track as Italy the next 3 weeks, like we have in fact over the last 3 weeks. So just to temper this number, let's assume we average just 8 deaths per day per Million over the next 14 days (not 23 days): here is math ... 8 x 330 x 14 = 37,000 more deaths in addition to the 16,000 already today, so 53,000 deaths as of 4/22 .. chart is as of 4/8.

Going to be some alarming numbers in next 2-3 weeks.

Again, not a prediction, but simply pointing out where we are at in terms of trend lines .. and I reduced the assumptions in Italy death count by 33% (12 to 8), and the time period from 23 to 14 days (40%) .. this took my projection using Italy's trend line on U.S. population from 91,000 to 37,000 over the coming 2-3 weeks.

Suffice it to say, the next 2 weeks will be very difficult for this country .. even while most scientists agree, they can now see us bending the curve in cases diagnosed in the next couple weeks .. New York is just now flattening the curve. But the rest of country is big unknown, though California has done really well.

Problem is, the death rate curve will of course lag this possibly good news by a week or 2. Also, due to limited testing available, we are not testing anyone who is asymptomatic .. so we are still understimating the case counts, and potential for continued spreading as a result, even if diminished.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Most signs are indicating that we're at or near the peak right now. Also, the United States has run over 1M more tests than any other country. I'd almost guarantee you that if Italy, Spain, or France would have run 2.5M tests by now they would have more positive cases than the US. Our cases per capita and deaths per capita are still well under many European countries.

Agree, experts are now saying we might be nearing the peak .. IO mentioned this in my more recent post.

But it is interesting you only cite counts when talking about testing, but then switch to per capita when talking about cases. We are the 3rd largest country in the world. Nobody in Western Europe even comes close to our 330m.

Italy has and continues to test at double the per capita rate than the US. They were slow to respond like the US, but have since made up a lot of ground on testing front ... which might partly explain why their case counts are so high.

See attched from CDC .. Italy vs US testing

[100%GRIZ]

I'm jumpin in late here, and not about to read all 30pages of the thread...but this went in a wildly different direction from the initial post...that said, the NCAA was seriously considering having March Madness in empty arenas. The revenue loss to them is HUGE. That said, if they can play games, even if the stadiums are empty...get ready for PPV Football.They will make their $$$$, and milk the lower tier schools while doing it.
I personally have no problem watching on TV & paying to do so would not bother me, of course am 66 years old and really don't have any interest in dying so I would not go to a stadium at this point, but then again I am a male & have decided that you go when you go and I have had tons of fun in my life so far, although it was much better when the Griz were winning regularly! I also think younger people with less risk probably would go to the games which is cool to me. Less people in the stadium but revenue flowing still to the universities!

[Redbird 4th & short]

Our death rate is only 4%.
That is different metric you cite, and I think your 4% death rate metric will come down once we get into full testing of asymptiomatic people .. which is needed to not only stop the spread, but also to help us find the antibodies needed to develop the vaccine sooner.

My metrics was comparing US to entire World .. 4% of population, but 30% of the cases, and 17% of the deaths. Meaning, the US is disproportionately being hit much harder thatn the rest of the world on average, with cases at over 7x our population, and with deaths at over 4x our population. Meaning were being hit a lot harder, despite still catching up on testing.

The fact that we are testing much more recently is a very good thing. But we're still playing catch up for our late start and our slow start .. a very bad thing. And while our death rate will lag our case rate assuming scientists are right that we are close to bending the curve on cases. The death rate improvement will naturally lag the case rate improvement.

[Redbird 4th & short]

As for the guy in the White House .. many reckless statements, but Feb 26 press conference will go down in infamy. This was just 6 weeks ago:

Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/).
Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/).
Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/), when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”

Update recap ... So "15 people within a couple days will be close to zero" is now approaching 470,000.

[Professor Chaos]

Agree, experts are now saying we might be nearing the peak .. IO mentioned this in my more recent post.

But it is interesting you only cite counts when talking about testing, but then switch to per capita when talking about cases. We are the 3rd largest country in the world. Nobody in Western Europe even comes close to our 330m.

Italy has and continues to test at double the per capita rate than the US. They were slow to respond like the US, but have since made up a lot of ground on testing front ... which might partly explain why their case counts are so high.

See attched from CDC .. Italy vs US testing
Probably a discussion we should take to the lounge or poli board but I do agree that testing is a major gap right now in any plans to corral this thing. That being said, the same number of people are going to get sick with or without widespread testing and with or without social distancing in the long run (i.e. before a vaccine is available). The important thing is that the health care capacity is great enough to treat those who need it. Italy didn't have that and they paid an awful price. So far we've been able to handle it even in NYC where it's been hit the hardest. In fact in some areas like my neck of the woods it's been the opposite... hospitals are giving unpaid leave to employees because they're so empty.

The number of new infections and deaths may seem scary over the coming days and weeks but exposure is a necessary means to the end of these crazy times we're living in because we're likely to get a herd immunity to it before we get a vaccine for it. If we can control the spread to the point where exposure by the non-vulnerable population is enough to start building a resistance to it without overwhelming our hospitals we'll reduce the number of potential carriers that could do damage to the vulnerable population and that should be the goal IMO because we can't count on a vaccine anytime soon if at all. But we need widespread testing (including immunity testing) to have any decent shot at a controlled spread.


As for the guy in the White House .. many reckless statements, but Feb 26 press conference will go down in infamy. This was just 6 weeks ago:

Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/).
Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/).
Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/), when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”
To recap... So "15 people within a couple days will be close to zero" is now approaching 470,000.
You really need to take this to the poli board.

From the "No more 2020 football season?" thread:

Next political post I see on here and that poster wins a wonderful package here on AGS where you do not have access to the FCS Discussion forum any longer.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Probably a discussion we should take to the lounge or poli board but I do agree that testing is a major gap right now in any plans to corral this thing. That being said, the same number of people are going to get sick with or without widespread testing and with or without social distancing in the long run (i.e. before a vaccine is available). The important thing is that the health care capacity is great enough to treat those who need it. Italy didn't have that and they paid an awful price. So far we've been able to handle it even in NYC where it's been hit the hardest. In fact in some areas like my neck of the woods it's been the opposite... hospitals are giving unpaid leave to employees because they're so empty.

The number of new infections and deaths may seem scary over the coming days and weeks but exposure is a necessary means to the end of these crazy times we're living in because we're likely to get a herd immunity to it before we get a vaccine for it. If we can control the spread to the point where exposure by the non-vulnerable population is enough to start building a resistance to it without overwhelming our hospitals we'll reduce the number of potential carriers that could do damage to the vulnerable population and that should be the goal IMO because we can't count on a vaccine anytime soon if at all. But we need widespread testing (including immunity testing) to have any decent shot at a controlled spread.


You really need to take this to the poli board.

From the "No more 2020 football season?" thread:

Lot of people had their say on this thread, thoiugh veiled as apolitical maybe .. but political nonetheless. And I thought Centennial put up a good arguement, so thought I would how some support for him.

Not sure I would agree with general conclusion that more testing wouldnt change numbers. Look at what South Korea did to corral this ... it is the model for how to tackle any pandemic. They stopped it in its tracks very quickly with testing and quarantines.

[Professor Chaos]

Not sure I would agree with general conclusion that more testing wouldnt change numbers. Look at what South Korea did to corral this ... it is the model for how to tackle any pandemic. They stopped it in its tracks very quickly with testing and quarantines.
So what's the goal then when a vaccine still at least a year away? To continue live in fear of any crowd larger than 10 people during that time? To have contact tracing on your smart phone so big brother can find out everywhere you've been during that time? To completely shutter non-essential business and watch unemployment applications continue to grow by the millions per week during that time? If South Korea's numbers are accurate and if their preventative measures have really been the reason for that they're going to have to continue them for a very long time at the low rate South Koreans are being exposed. It's just not a sustainable model. I don't know if people there could handle it there for that long but I guarantee people here won't be able to.

[ElCid]

Centennial .. you make much more sense to me than the others.

Some basic numbers to put this Covid-19 into perspective for the United States.

- the US population makes up just over 4% of the world population: 330m of 7.7b

- the US Coronavirus Cases make up 30% of the world cases: appraoching 470k out of 1.6m, and we're still outpacing the rest of world combined, which means this 30% is still increasing, relative to rest of world.

- the US Coronavirus Deaths make up 17% of of the world deaths: 16k out of 90k, and again we're still outpacing rest of world combined.

As for the US Death Rates (per day per Million), check out below attachment. Compare the US trend line with Italy and South Korea trend lines. We're much closer to Italy (3 weeks ago) than we are to South Korea. We could have responded like South Korea, but we didn't and nor we're we prepared to. But right now, we're looking a lot like Italy. Though it is possible and likely IMO, we won't continue to look as much like Italy gor forward, as qwe have historically. But the next 10 days are going to be telling and very difficult in terms of our death rate. The 16,000 deaths to date could approach 40,000 or more before we start to bend that curve in 10-14 days. Considering how slow we were to ramp up testing, it will take longer to bend that curve.

Back to my original point ... we make up 4% of the world population, but over 30% of the Covid-19 cases. Further problem is, our numbers are still outpacing the rest of the world .. meaning, in short term, our numbers are still getting worse. This is why every chart of US shows us with the steepest curve .. not just counts, which are misleading, but per capita numbers too.

p.s. I'm totally ignoring any number out of China ... not to be believed.

Crunching numbers like you have really isn't meaningful since we are now testing a lot more people than nearly everyone...numbers, not %. You can do amazing things with stats if you go solely on % alone. Or numbers alone for that matter. And it is a given that China has hid a vast majority of their numbers. I may trust the Europeans to a degree, but not the ChiComms at all. You were not ignoring the Chinese numbers if you compare our population as percent of world and cases. I am pretty sure everyone agrees that they are hiding the true situation. I have seen and heard, from people on site, that they may be hiding up to 90% of their actual numbers. I won't even touch on NK or Iran. Therefore, your entire point is based on incomplete, inaccurate, or at least highly suspect data. In any event, the true picture will not be known for months, maybe years, maybe never. All depends on the extent, and transparency, of tests and results over the next year.

There is one more issue that needs addressing as well. I have heard reporting that discussed how deaths in NY are being attributed to the virus even though some of victims were at deaths door with multiple underlying ailments. The extent of this will need to be sorted out in the long run, and it may be that the virus pushed them over the edge, but the CDC really needs to start granualuzing the deaths a bit better. I have seen it before with deaths of relatives. Cause of death on death certificate and actual causes are sometimes, shall we say, interesting.

[favorite football fan]

[that said, the NCAA was seriously considering having March Madness in empty arenas]

But they did not. A lot of people were considering a LOT of things. Some schools were planning on students returning in two weeks after spring break.

[That said, if they can play games, even if the stadiums are empty...get ready for PPV Football.]

The universities won't do this unless the governor of their state says it's ok. The university prez's will defer to the governors. The CDC will decide if we can play football or not.

[As for the guy in the White House .. many reckless statements]

As for the guy who wants to be in the White House....many reckless statements; doesn't even know where he is most of the time. Creepy Joe would not know what to do in this situation. But never fear, the media will cover for him with their propaganda since the media is really the democrat party and we all know that they are totalitarians.

[Going to be some alarming numbers in next 2-3 weeks]

They said this two weeks ago. The public health officials predicted 2.5 million deaths. Thus, the models they are using (and which models is the question) are obviously flawed if you can make it up as you go. No different than this climate change fraud as their models always predict that we will be drowning by the end of ten years OR we will be throwing snowballs at each other in July in Florida.

And the lamestream media, they will keep us as hysterical hypochondriacs and germ-phobics for as long as they can; the CDC will keep us locked down for as long as they can as they know those glue-sniffing liberal journalists will come at them and question every little thing. Thus, I am curious who is really keeping this virus going? the CDC or the media? Just think, this is all an attempt to remove Trump from office. I am becoming more convinced of this every day.

[I may trust the Europeans to a degree, but not the ChiComms at all. You were not ignoring the Chinese numbers if you compare our population as percent of world and cases. I am pretty sure everyone agrees that they are hiding the true situation.]

You cannot trust them because they are Marxists. Just like Sandpeople; these blast marks, too accurate for Sandpeople and they walk in single file to hide their true numbers. Socialism, such a great idea that you have to be forced to accept it.

All I can tell you is this: the state govt's need to determine what is going to be worse: being locked up in your home with your wife and her 10,000 honey-do list of things to do thus leading you to the potential of you contemplating some sort of freak accident OR getting football back in order to save lives? Some guys are going to start thinking: I have a better chance of surviving this virus than surviving my wife's nagging.

College football = saving lives.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Probably a discussion we should take to the lounge or poli board but I do agree that testing is a major gap right now in any plans to corral this thing. That being said, the same number of people are going to get sick with or without widespread testing and with or without social distancing in the long run (i.e. before a vaccine is available). The important thing is that the health care capacity is great enough to treat those who need it. Italy didn't have that and they paid an awful price. So far we've been able to handle it even in NYC where it's been hit the hardest. In fact in some areas like my neck of the woods it's been the opposite... hospitals are giving unpaid leave to employees because they're so empty.

The number of new infections and deaths may seem scary over the coming days and weeks but exposure is a necessary means to the end of these crazy times we're living in because we're likely to get a herd immunity to it before we get a vaccine for it. If we can control the spread to the point where exposure by the non-vulnerable population is enough to start building a resistance to it without overwhelming our hospitals we'll reduce the number of potential carriers that could do damage to the vulnerable population and that should be the goal IMO because we can't count on a vaccine anytime soon if at all. But we need widespread testing (including immunity testing) to have any decent shot at a controlled spread.


You really need to take this to the poli board.

From the "No more 2020 football season?" thread:

will agree, though many people have been toeing and cross the line of late. Ill stop doing it here.

[favorite football fan]

As for the guy in the White House .. many reckless statements, but Feb 26 press conference will go down in infamy. This was just 6 weeks ago: Update recap ... So "15 people within a couple days will be close to zero" is now approaching 470,000.

A lot of people have said a lot of things. And on Feb 26, we were a week from spring break. You are going to hold Trump accountable for those 470K when the models, used by the public health people, predicted those numbers he used? Typical of democrats to use this as a weapon.

[Redbird 4th & short]

So what's the goal then when a vaccine still at least a year away? To continue live in fear of any crowd larger than 10 people during that time? To have contact tracing on your smart phone so big brother can find out everywhere you've been during that time? To completely shutter non-essential business and watch unemployment applications continue to grow by the millions per week during that time? If South Korea's numbers are accurate and if their preventative measures have really been the reason for that they're going to have to continue them for a very long time at the low rate South Koreans are being exposed. It's just not a sustainable model. I don't know if people there could handle it there for that long but I guarantee people here won't be able to.
I'm not suggesting there are any easy solutions, but we were very late to this in terms of testing. So now we need to make up for that lost time with patience. Bottom line, let's watch the data and listen to the experts .. the objective ones. Need to take this 1 week at a time while we watch it play out. It's only been 4 weeks ... while the job and income losses are very tough, and the impact to our economy will be long lasting, the longer this plays out. We need to see how the next 2 weeks goes. Betting on herd immunity when we know so little seems too risky at this point. Not ruling it out yet, but seems way too early to go that route.

Let's see where we are in 2 weeks. The deaths will definitely spike in coming 2 weeks. Tragic as that is, there is little we can do about that immediately. But we need to get a lot more testing going on .. people with and without symptoms. To this point, we've only testes 0.75% of our population. Italy has tested touble that at 1.50%, and we rank very far down the list on that metric .. got to step that up a lot, so we can know better where we stand. Are we approaching numbers like Italy, or will we trail off from that trend line .. knowing that fiest is the difference between 50k or 100k people dying, or more .. and the implications of how much more this could spread and where. Italy already bent their curve, though they are still reeling. We have not bent the curve .. hopefully, we are getting close to slowing this spread down in next week or 2.

2 weeks time will tell us a lot.

[Redbird 4th & short]

A lot of people have said a lot of things. And on Feb 26, we were a week from spring break. You are going to hold Trump accountable for those 470K when the models, used by the public health people, predicted those numbers he used? Typical of democrats to use this as a weapon.
Wow, you actually believe scientific "models" predicted 15 would go to near 0 ? In a word ... no, no one was predicting that.

Since you accused me of "using it as a weapon", find me the source of that study and any publication of it.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm not suggesting there are any easy solutions, but we were very late to this in terms of testing. So now we need to make up for that lost time with patience. Bottom line, let's watch the data and listen to the experts .. the objective ones. Need to take this 1 week at a time while we watch it play out. It's only been 4 weeks ... while the job and income losses are very tough, and the impact to our economy will be long lasting, the longer this plays out. We need to see how the next 2 weeks goes. Betting on herd immunity when we know so little seems too risky at this point. Not ruling it out yet, but seems way too early to go that route.

Let's see where we are in 2 weeks. The deaths will definitely spike in coming 2 weeks. Tragic as that is, there is little we can do about that immediately. But we need to get a lot more testing going on .. people with and without symptoms. To this point, we've only testes 0.75% of our population. Italy has tested touble that at 1.50%, and we rank very far down the list on that metric .. got to step that up a lot, so we can know better where we stand. Are we approaching numbers like Italy, or will we trail off from that trend line .. knowing that fiest is the difference between 50k or 100k people dying, or more .. and the implications of how much more this could spread and where. Italy already bent their curve, though they are still reeling. We have not bent the curve .. hopefully, we are getting close to slowing this spread down in next week or 2.

2 weeks time will tell us a lot.
Agreed. Until new cases and deaths start to decline for several days in a row it's a big gamble to loosen things up. Two more weeks of vigilance is reasonable IMO especially in states where daily new cases are in the thousands and waiting until the end of April wouldn't be crippling although the economy is going to have to be slowly put back on track so any head start we can get while minimizing risk would be ideal. It sure would be nice if we could get widespread testing by then but that seems pretty unlikely at this point.

[favorite football fan]

Wow, you actually believe scientific "models" predicted 15 would go to near 0 ? In a word ... no, no one was predicting that.

Since you accused me of "using it as a weapon", find me the source of that study and any publication of it.

NO ONE has seen ANY of the models used; Trump is getting his info from the CDC and NIH people. You think he pulled these numbers out of the air? Plus, when this started, there were no peer-reviewed papers on this. This is so fluid it isn't even funny.

And yes, you are weaponizing it; no doubt about that. "Trump used Russian salad dressing, proof he is colluding with Putin."

[JALMOND]

Haven't been on much due to other things going on. I'm still considered "essential" (for the time being), so I am still working. Traffic seems to be getting close to normal every passing day. The wife and kid are both considered "high-risk" due to disabilities and I have been caring for them in the evenings. Also, my father has taken a turn for the worse (non-virus related, thank God), so I'm been in contact with the rest of the family in Helena, MT about whether or not I have to head out there. The MT governor just ordered any out-of-stater to self quarantine once they enter Montana so I would not be able to see him if I went anyway so i just continue to monitor his situation there and decide when is the best time to go (even with the restrictions in place, it is more of "when" I can go and not "if" I can go). Otherwise, just watching over the wife and kid and continue working until they say I can't.


Just an update on my situation...I am still "essential" but I have been cut to working only 3 days per week, which I guess is better than 0 days a week. Also, my father did pass away Friday morning and it was peaceful. I was not there, but I will be heading over to Helena regardless of all the restrictions next week. Hopefully the MT National Guard will show some compassion.

To kind of bring this around full circle, Dad was an avid college football fan, enjoying it on all levels. He especially enjoyed following Montana State (where he started college), Rocky Mountain College (where he did graduate), and North Dakota State (where he got his master's). Later on in life, he had season tickets to Oregon State, even though he still lived in Montana. I told him about this site. I don't think he ever officially joined but I know he poked around here as a guest from time to time.

[citdog]

Just an update on my situation...I am still "essential" but I have been cut to working only 3 days per week, which I guess is better than 0 days a week. Also, my father did pass away Friday morning and it was peaceful. I was not there, but I will be heading over to Helena regardless of all the restrictions next week. Hopefully the MT National Guard will show some compassion.

To kind of bring this around full circle, Dad was an avid college football fan, enjoying it on all levels. He especially enjoyed following Montana State (where he started college), Rocky Mountain College (where he did graduate), and North Dakota State (where he got his master's). Later on in life, he had season tickets to Oregon State, even though he still lived in Montana. I told him about this site. I don't think he ever officially joined but I know he poked around here as a guest from time to time.

Very sorry to hear about the passing of your Father. My condolences to you and yours.

[ElCid]

Just an update on my situation...I am still "essential" but I have been cut to working only 3 days per week, which I guess is better than 0 days a week. Also, my father did pass away Friday morning and it was peaceful. I was not there, but I will be heading over to Helena regardless of all the restrictions next week. Hopefully the MT National Guard will show some compassion.

To kind of bring this around full circle, Dad was an avid college football fan, enjoying it on all levels. He especially enjoyed following Montana State (where he started college), Rocky Mountain College (where he did graduate), and North Dakota State (where he got his master's). Later on in life, he had season tickets to Oregon State, even though he still lived in Montana. I told him about this site. I don't think he ever officially joined but I know he poked around here as a guest from time to time.

Sorry to hear about your dad. Hopefully you get to be with your family safely.

[Bisonoline]

Just an update on my situation...I am still "essential" but I have been cut to working only 3 days per week, which I guess is better than 0 days a week. Also, my father did pass away Friday morning and it was peaceful. I was not there, but I will be heading over to Helena regardless of all the restrictions next week. Hopefully the MT National Guard will show some compassion.

To kind of bring this around full circle, Dad was an avid college football fan, enjoying it on all levels. He especially enjoyed following Montana State (where he started college), Rocky Mountain College (where he did graduate), and North Dakota State (where he got his master's). Later on in life, he had season tickets to Oregon State, even though he still lived in Montana. I told him about this site. I don't think he ever officially joined but I know he poked around here as a guest from time to time.

So sorry to hear about your father.

[Derby City Duke]

Just an update on my situation...I am still "essential" but I have been cut to working only 3 days per week, which I guess is better than 0 days a week. Also, my father did pass away Friday morning and it was peaceful. I was not there, but I will be heading over to Helena regardless of all the restrictions next week. Hopefully the MT National Guard will show some compassion.

To kind of bring this around full circle, Dad was an avid college football fan, enjoying it on all levels. He especially enjoyed following Montana State (where he started college), Rocky Mountain College (where he did graduate), and North Dakota State (where he got his master's). Later on in life, he had season tickets to Oregon State, even though he still lived in Montana. I told him about this site. I don't think he ever officially joined but I know he poked around here as a guest from time to time.

Very sorry to hear about your Dad. Prayers of comfort and Pearce to you and your family.

[100%GRIZ]

Just an update on my situation...I am still "essential" but I have been cut to working only 3 days per week, which I guess is better than 0 days a week. Also, my father did pass away Friday morning and it was peaceful. I was not there, but I will be heading over to Helena regardless of all the restrictions next week. Hopefully the MT National Guard will show some compassion.

To kind of bring this around full circle, Dad was an avid college football fan, enjoying it on all levels. He especially enjoyed following Montana State (where he started college), Rocky Mountain College (where he did graduate), and North Dakota State (where he got his master's). Later on in life, he had season tickets to Oregon State, even though he still lived in Montana. I told him about this site. I don't think he ever officially joined but I know he poked around here as a guest from time to time.
My sincere condolences! May he RIP!

[WestCoastAggie]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-scientists-hope-begin-testing-antiviral-drug-coronavirus-two-weeks-n1181101

[citdog]

Haven't worn pants that didn't have a drawstring in two weeks.

[MSUBobcat]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-scientists-hope-begin-testing-antiviral-drug-coronavirus-two-weeks-n1181101

Very cool story. Thank you for sharing!

[MSUBobcat]

Just an update on my situation...I am still "essential" but I have been cut to working only 3 days per week, which I guess is better than 0 days a week. Also, my father did pass away Friday morning and it was peaceful. I was not there, but I will be heading over to Helena regardless of all the restrictions next week. Hopefully the MT National Guard will show some compassion.

To kind of bring this around full circle, Dad was an avid college football fan, enjoying it on all levels. He especially enjoyed following Montana State (where he started college), Rocky Mountain College (where he did graduate), and North Dakota State (where he got his master's). Later on in life, he had season tickets to Oregon State, even though he still lived in Montana. I told him about this site. I don't think he ever officially joined but I know he poked around here as a guest from time to time.

Sorry to hear about your father. My sincere condolences JALMOND.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Haven't worn pants that didn't have a drawstring in two weeks.

When do you expect to make bail?

[cx500d]

Haven't worn pants that didn't have a drawstring in two weeks.

Do you need a new pair of Crocs too?

[citdog]

Nah I'm good. Just wearing my "buffet pants".

xdrunkyx

[POD Knows]

Just an update on my situation...I am still "essential" but I have been cut to working only 3 days per week, which I guess is better than 0 days a week. Also, my father did pass away Friday morning and it was peaceful. I was not there, but I will be heading over to Helena regardless of all the restrictions next week. Hopefully the MT National Guard will show some compassion.

To kind of bring this around full circle, Dad was an avid college football fan, enjoying it on all levels. He especially enjoyed following Montana State (where he started college), Rocky Mountain College (where he did graduate), and North Dakota State (where he got his master's). Later on in life, he had season tickets to Oregon State, even though he still lived in Montana. I told him about this site. I don't think he ever officially joined but I know he poked around here as a guest from time to time.Sorry to hear about your dad.

[Redbird 4th & short]

NO ONE has seen ANY of the models used; Trump is getting his info from the CDC and NIH people. You think he pulled these numbers out of the air? Plus, when this started, there were no peer-reviewed papers on this. This is so fluid it isn't even funny.

And yes, you are weaponizing it; no doubt about that. "Trump used Russian salad dressing, proof he is colluding with Putin."

Yes, precisely this. He does it all the time .. his own people admit he does this, when forced to defend the things he says that just have no basis in fact. It happens all the time .. he says thiings that are verifiably not true. And the people around him have to do verbal gymnastics to avoid agreeing or diagreeing with their public comments.

But no, the CDC and NIH never ever said, "15 cases will be near zero in a couple days"... never said it, never thought it, sure as hell no credible scientist ever modeled it. It would be the stupidest thing they ever did or said.

Plus, Trump never claimed they said it. Neither did his experts ... Dr Birks, Dr Faucie, or Surgeion General Adams. But you somehow have convinced your self CDC and NIH modeled this and said it to Trump. And that's why he said it ... no, he made it up thinking it will somehow convince stock market everything was going to be fine .. simple as that.

Again .. wow.

[cx500d]

Yes, precisely this. He does it all the time .. his own people admit he does this, when forced to defend the things he says that just have no basis in fact. It happens all the time .. he says thiings that are verifiably not true. And the people around him have to do verbal gymnastics to avoid agreeing or diagreeing with their public comments.

But no, the CDC and NIH never ever said, "15 cases will be near zero in a couple days"... never said it, never thought it, sure as hell no credible scientist ever modeled it. It would be the stupidest thing they ever did or said.

Plus, Trump never claimed they said it. Neither did his experts ... Dr Birks, Dr Faucie, or Surgeion General Adams. But you somehow have convinced your self CDC and NIH modeled this and said it to Trump. And that's why he said it ... no, he made it up thinking it will somehow convince stock market everything was going to be fine .. simple as that.

Again .. wow.

Oh brother, there's a whole different thread with 100's of pages for this useless drivel

[BEAR]

31502

[cx500d]

31501
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/pJITo7AqTrNnhmqSMFwc2NhEtzIMTv03oQ1cxNH0J9PufuyvDi N8H1xDt0zhQbary6Z8wtGw_OgVM4nY52Cpe6ZTQsYS4uFlhh9x ZqP1SJ2Uvbv6tzIKhi0vlsUvGsm7OyBQ5iJsKLohgK9PpOMv30 ry9gp0uP-dEyNMHw

[BEAR]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/pJITo7AqTrNnhmqSMFwc2NhEtzIMTv03oQ1cxNH0J9PufuyvDi N8H1xDt0zhQbary6Z8wtGw_OgVM4nY52Cpe6ZTQsYS4uFlhh9x ZqP1SJ2Uvbv6tzIKhi0vlsUvGsm7OyBQ5iJsKLohgK9PpOMv30 ry9gp0uP-dEyNMHw

xlolx

[Redbird 4th & short]

Oh brother, there's a whole different thread with 100's of pages for this useless drivel
I get it and I have kept my comments to a minimum .. political boards are a complete waste of time .. no one listens or ever changes their minds.

Can't help but notice .. you didn't point out favorite football fan's useless drivel, just mine. Is his useless (i.e. mindless) drivel ok here, but mine is not ? So you implicitly allow (and therefore endorse) his viewpoint, but say mine is not allowed.

[cx500d]

I get it and I have kept my comments to a minimum .. political boards are a complete waste of time .. no one listens or ever changes their minds.

Can't help but notice .. you didn't point out favorite football fan's useless drivel, just mine. Is his useless (i.e. mindless) drivel ok here, but mine is not ? So you implicitly allow (and therefore endorse) his viewpoint, but say mine is not allowed.

There gets to be a tipping point. Can't call out all the idiots

[FormerPokeCenter]

I get it and I have kept my comments to a minimum .. political boards are a complete waste of time .. no one listens or ever changes their minds.

Can't help but notice .. you didn't point out favorite football fan's useless drivel, just mine. Is his useless (i.e. mindless) drivel ok here, but mine is not ? So you implicitly allow (and therefore endorse) his viewpoint, but say mine is not allowed.

He didn't say your opinionated drivel wasn't allowed, he just suggested that it would be better if you posted it in a thread that's already laden with similar opinionated drivel, rather than clogging up THIS thread with content that's not really suited for this discussion. It's not THAT hard to understand.

Have you, perchance, ever been diagnosed with a persecution complex?

[cx500d]

He didn't say your opinionated drivel wasn't allowed, he just suggested that it would be better if you posted it in a thread that's already laden with similar opinionated drivel, rather than clogging up THIS thread with content that's not really suited for this discussion. It's not THAT hard to understand.

Have you, perchance, ever been diagnosed with a persecution complex?

Says the drivel-master

[FormerPokeCenter]

Says the drivel-master


That's MISTER Drivel-Master to you...

[cx500d]

That's MISTER Drivel-Master to you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VShbtISTlew

[FormerPokeCenter]

I can't really say that I'm surprised that stop motion animation holds such fascination for you...

[cx500d]

I can't really say that I'm surprised that stop motion animation holds such fascination for you...
Sure thing Drivelmaster MisterDrivel

[FormerPokeCenter]

What no video?

[cx500d]

What no video?
It was already provided in post 341 of this now useless tome

[FormerPokeCenter]

Performance anxiety. I get it...

[Lorne_Malvo]

I have noticed that people are genuinely trying to be nicer to each other. At least it sure seems that way in Fargo.

[cx500d]

I have noticed that people are genuinely trying to be nicer to each other. At least it sure seems that way in Fargo.
Go **** yourself

[FormerPokeCenter]

Go **** yourself


Shouldn't that be "Go **** yourself, Eh!" ?

[Professor Chaos]

Shouldn't that be "Go **** yourself, Eh!" ?
It's "Go **** yourself, buddy!"

https://youtu.be/Uzm5TvvuDqA?t=1m7s

[POD Knows]

Shouldn't that be "Go **** yourself, Eh!" ?Go **** yourself there then, you betcha.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I wondered where Sarah Palin ran off to!

[favorite football fan]

Go **** yourself there then, you betcha.

Actually, I believe it will sound more like: yaah, ya knooww, ya ought to go dooo that thing that Sven does on the fishing booooat by himself when his wife is sorta acting funny and there is nooo fish biting and he's got noooo beer.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Actually, I believe it will sound more like: yaah, ya knooww, ya ought to go dooo that thing that Sven does on the fishing booooat by himself when his wife is sorta acting funny and there is nooo fish biting and he's got noooo beer.


........xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxnodxxlolxxlolxxl olxxlolxxlolx.........BRAWK!


.......FUNN-EST POST EVERAH....IN HISTORY......UH AGS......xlolx.....DOODLE-DOO!!!

[caribbeanhen]

I have noticed that people are genuinely trying to be nicer to each other. At least it sure seems that way in Fargo.

but I thought Fargo was the place where everybody is nice

[semobison]

A Canadian guy likes his booze but his wife has had enough and tells him he needs to quit or she is going to leave him. Begrudgingly he agrees and says to his wife. I suppose you want me to go to AA..eh!

[ST_Lawson]

Shouldn't that be "Go **** yourself, Eh!" ?

I think maybe "Go **** yourself, sir!"

Depending on the age difference (I respect my elders).

[cx500d]

I think maybe "Go **** yourself, sir!"

Depending on the age difference (I respect my elders).

Usually the enlisted people would tell me when I would say something ridiculous - "With all due respect, go **** yourself, Sir" accent on the Sir.

[Catsfan90]

The virus effected me by cementing my decision to leave NYC for Montana.

[Bisonoline]

The virus effected me by cementing my decision to leave NYC for Montana.

Good move.

[caribbeanhen]

The virus effected me by cementing my decision to leave NYC for Montana.

What part of NYC did you live in?

[Catsfan90]

Jersey City. But I work on vessey.

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[caribbeanhen]

Jersey City. But I work on vessey.

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Vessey? You mean Vesey St?

[Catsfan90]

Sure. Who cares. I work at tullett Prebon if tpicap because for some reason you're tying to catch me up?

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[BisonTru]

The virus effected me by cementing my decision to leave NYC for Montana.

Invest in a good pair of Velcro gloves.

[Catsfan90]

How come? [emoji23]

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[Catsfan90]

Caribbean, what's your problem/ deal!

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[caribbeanhen]

Caribbean, what's your problem/ deal!

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too many to list

but don’t worry, Im not stalking you

trust me on this

[Bisonoline]

We will be eating pizza by the lake very soon.

[POD Knows]

We will be eating pizza by the lake very soon.Where do you get good pizza in your neck of the woods.

[Bisonoline]

Where do you get good pizza in your neck of the woods.

There isn't any great pizza. We are over by millacs today and Broadway pizza is probably the best around here.

[POD Knows]

There isn't any great pizza. We are over by millacs today and Broadway pizza is probably the best around here.I have had dinner at the Y club a couple times (yea, let the jokes fly but it is a real place), we have a summer business meeting at a little resort over on the east side of the lake. That bowling alley in Isle has decent pizza.

[caribbeanhen]

I have had dinner at the Y club a couple times (yea, let the jokes fly but it is a real place), we have a summer business meeting at a little resort over on the east side of the lake. That bowling alley in Isle has decent pizza.

the bowling alley reference will not go well for you POD :D

[POD Knows]

the bowling alley reference will not go well for you POD :DFor what it is worth, there was nobody bowling when we were in there, it isn't a thing in Isle, MN. Oddly enough, there are a fair number of bowling alleys in this part of the world that have really good food, and yea, I would go there and eat at one of them right freaking now if I was able.

[Bisonoline]

I have had dinner at the Y club a couple times (yea, let the jokes fly but it is a real place), we have a summer business meeting at a little resort over on the east side of the lake. That bowling alley in Isle has decent pizza.

Damn we drove thru isle just awhile ago.

[MSUBobcat]

The virus effected me by cementing my decision to leave NYC for Montana.

Ooooooo... sorry, MT is all full up. No vacancy. We'll put you on a wait list and let you know if there's any cancellations.

[100%GRIZ]

Ooooooo... sorry, MT is all full up. No vacancy. We'll put you on a wait list and let you know if there's any cancellations.
Unfortunately you are correct sir but I think Montana will not be the same because of this damn virus. We are about to be overrun!

[Catsfan90]

Unfortunately you are correct sir but I think Montana will not be the same because of this damn virus. We are about to be overrun!Haha I wouldn't be so sure! Depending on from where, everyone thinks I'm crazy for going.


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[Catsfan90]

Ooooooo... sorry, MT is all full up. No vacancy. We'll put you on a wait list and let you know if there's any cancellations.Dang! Can't you take pity on me for that last pkayoff loss??

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[Bisonoline]

I have had dinner at the Y club a couple times (yea, let the jokes fly but it is a real place), we have a summer business meeting at a little resort over on the east side of the lake. That bowling alley in Isle has decent pizza.

I will try it next weekend.

[POD Knows]

I will try it next weekend.
There is a bar and grill north of McQuoids resort right on the lake that is pretty decent. Don’t remember the name of it. East side of Mille Lacs

[Bisonoline]

There is a bar and grill north of McQuoids resort right on the lake that is pretty decent. Don’t remember the name of it. East side of Mille Lacs

Nittis Hunters Point? Castaways? The Wharf?

[POD Knows]

Nittis Hunters Point? Castaways? The Wharf?Da Boathouse, it is parts of Mac's Twin Bay. it is bar food but it was pretty good

[Bisonoline]

Da Boathouse, it is parts of Mac's Twin Bay. it is bar food but it was pretty good

Another place I need to try.
Castaways has broasted chicken. Oh and for the best breakfast on the lake go to Twin Pines Resort on the west side. Huge omlets and real hash browns. They also have a nightly special and they also have broasted chicken and you can get breakfast all day. Its also where we stay.

[POD Knows]

Another place I need to try.
Castaways has broasted chicken. Oh and for the best breakfast on the lake go to Twin Pines Resort on the west side. Huge omlets and real hash browns. They also have a nightly special and they also have broasted chicken and you can get breakfast all day. Its also where we stay.Yea, I might have to check it out

https://i.imgur.com/F3eGCCP.jpg

[cx500d]

Yea, I might have to check it out

https://i.imgur.com/F3eGCCP.jpg

Shoe leather and eggs?

[POD Knows]

Shoe leather and eggs?You betcha, breakfast of champions. I like my eggs over easy and my hash browns burnt. Dry ham and a little maple syrup, oh baby.

[clenz]

Email today that I will be WFH through at least June 1

[JSUSoutherner]

Email today that I will be WFH through at least June 1

Home? What's that?

[MR. CHICKEN]

31526

........DELAWARE SEASON TICKETS.......NEEDED TA BE PURCHASED AS UH YESTERDAY...........TA KEEP YER DESIRED SEATS.........SECTION J ROW G......FO' 33 YEARS.......NO VACCINE......NO CHICKEN........LOVE ME SOME PIGGY.........BUT AH'D OWN-LAH....WANNA DIE FO'........HENRIETTA'S........BANANA PIE.........BRAWK!!

[caribbeanhen]

31526

........DELAWARE SEASON TICKETS.......NEEDED TA BE PURCHASED AS UH YESTERDAY...........TA KEEP YER DESIRED SEATS.........SECTION J ROW G......FO' 33 YEARS.......NO VACCINE......NO CHICKEN........LOVE ME SOME PIGGY.........BUT AH'D OWN-LAH....WANNA DIE FO'........HENRIETTA'S........BANANA PIE.........BRAWK!!

33 years! Very impressive Mr. C

Not sure what the hurry is when it’s pretty much assured that they’re not gonna be playing in September 2020

[POD Knows]

33 years! Very impressive Mr. C

Not sure what the hurry is when it’s pretty much assured that they’re not gonna be playing in September 2020Yea, sent a check for over 3K the other day, big hurry to get the $$ for the season tickets, they better be in just a big of hurry to send me my money back when the season gets cancelled

[Derby City Duke]

31526

........DELAWARE SEASON TICKETS.......NEEDED TA BE PURCHASED AS UH YESTERDAY...........TA KEEP YER DESIRED SEATS.........SECTION J ROW G......FO' 33 YEARS.......NO VACCINE......NO CHICKEN........LOVE ME SOME PIGGY.........BUT AH'D OWN-LAH....WANNA DIE FO'........HENRIETTA'S........BANANA PIE.........BRAWK!!

That sucks for ya -- sure it had to hurt a bit to not send in the $$. Start a new streak in a new place when this all settles out.

I hope UD gives you first shot at your old tix if there is no season this year.

[Professor Chaos]

Yea, sent a check for over 3K the other day, big hurry to get the $$ for the season tickets, they better be in just a big of hurry to send me my money back when the season gets cancelled
Bisonoline said that he talked to the NDSU ticket office and they claim that if the season is cancelled (or if they decide to play without fans) you'll get refunded for tickets and the mandatory Team Maker "donation" but we'll see. I have a feeling they're going to want to figure out a way to keep some of those "donations" to try to offset the massive financial hit it would be to lose all football ticket revenue. I think it would be a pretty good compromise for both sides if they would refund or tickets prices and half of our Team Maker fees and then give us a 50% discount if we keep our season tickets in 2021. They could spread that financial hit out over two seasons then at least. We'd basically be giving NDSU Athletics an interest free loan for a year which is fine with me.

For my season ticket group the silver lining of the huge drop in demand that I'm sure is coming is that we can get all our season tickets next to each other instead of scattered in 3 different spots around the building. Those of us who stick with it this year should be able to get a ticket upgrade if we want one.

[caribbeanhen]

Yea, sent a check for over 3K the other day, big hurry to get the $$ for the season tickets, they better be in just a big of hurry to send me my money back when the season gets cancelled

3000 k? For how many home games?

I hope that include hookers and blow :D

[gumby013]

3000 k? For how many home games?

I hope that include hookers and blow :D

It's getting spendy.

https://gobison.com/documents/2020/2/19//Football_Season_Ticket_Seating_Chart_Prices_2020.p df

[POD Knows]

Bisonoline said that he talked to the NDSU ticket office and they claim that if the season is cancelled (or if they decide to play without fans) you'll get refunded for tickets and the mandatory Team Maker "donation" but we'll see. I have a feeling they're going to want to figure out a way to keep some of those "donations" to try to offset the massive financial hit it would be to lose all football ticket revenue. I think it would be a pretty good compromise for both sides if they would refund or tickets prices and half of our Team Maker fees and then give us a 50% discount if we keep our season tickets in 2021. They could spread that financial hit out over two seasons then at least. We'd basically be giving NDSU Athletics an interest free loan for a year which is fine with me.

For my season ticket group the silver lining of the huge drop in demand that I'm sure is coming is that we can get all our season tickets next to each other instead of scattered in 3 different spots around the building. Those of us who stick with it this year should be able to get a ticket upgrade if we want one.I am sure this will get handled in a professional manner and I imagine that they have to operate with a "business as usual" approach up until the time that it isn't business as usual. I am real curious to see what % of the season tickets were actually renewed and paid for.

[MR. CHICKEN]

......HERE'S DUH YOU-DEE DEAL.......'CORDIN'...TA BARRAGE UH APRIL E-MAILS......YOUSE COOD PAY IN FULL BAH 4/30.......OR CLICK UH BUTTON......TA LET 'EM KNOW YER INTERESTED AN' DEY'D HOLD 'EM.....@ WHICH TIME YOU'D PAY HALF BAH JUNE 1......BALANCE BAH JULY 1......IFIN' YER IN UH TOUGH SPOT........WHIFF RE-IMBURSEMENT....IFIN' HENS ARE NO-GO.......BUT HERE'S DUH CATCH-22........SO PIGGY GOES ON AS SKEDDED........AN' AH'D UH PAID UP..........SO 'CAUSE AH'M OLD AN' IN DUH WAY.....'FRAID UH VIRUS/ NO VACCINE.......PRODUCT IS ON DUH FIELD......NO REFUND...FO' NOT SHOWIN' UP...TA DUH 6 HOMIES.....SO AH LET 'EM GO.......AH'M SURE AH'M NOT DUH OWN-LAH......SO POSSIBLE CHANCE DEY'D GO UNCHOSEN....AN' MO' LIKE-LEE......NO OINKY SEASON AT ALL....ANY-WHO...............AWK!

[POD Knows]

3000 k? For how many home games?

I hope that include hookers and blow :DWe have 9 tickets, 6 home games, works out to about $60 a game, these are cheap seats in Fargo. Our seats are on the home side of the field across from the end zone. I like them because it is close to the pisser and the exit doors. xdrunkyx

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

It's getting spendy.

https://gobison.com/documents/2020/2/19//Football_Season_Ticket_Seating_Chart_Prices_2020.p df

Wow, UMaine season Tix for 5 games is $75 and that includes a tailgating pass!!! Cannot imagine spending $500/game to watch your team steamroll a team the way you guys do.
May be a moot point as alot of discussion of games played with no fans:(

[POD Knows]

Wow, UMaine season Tix for 5 games is $75 and that includes a tailgating pass!!! Cannot imagine spending $500/game to watch your team steamroll a team the way you guys do.
May be a moot point as alot of discussion of games played with no fans:(
The "Team Maker" dues is what really hammers the people with the mid field seats in Fargo. My Team Maker dues are only $50 a ticket. We also pay for tailgating spots as well.

[caribbeanhen]

We have 9 tickets, 6 home games, works out to about $60 a game, these are cheap seats in Fargo. Our seats are on the home side of the field across from the end zone. I like them because it is close to the pisser and the exit doors. xdrunkyx

close to the pisser is a must .... especially after gallons of cerveza and Senior discounted breakfast at Waffle house before the game

[POD Knows]

close to the pisser is a must .... especially after gallons of cerveza and Senior discounted breakfast at Waffle house before the gameWe don't have WH up here, Praise be to God.

[JALMOND]

Unfortunately you are correct sir but I think Montana will not be the same because of this damn virus. We are about to be overrun!

"Big City, turn me loose and set me free, Somewhere in the middle of Montana"---Merle Haggard

[gumby013]

We don't have WH up here, Praise be to God.

Blaspheme, Waffle House is awesome. I've been known to drive significant distances to go to one.

[POD Knows]

Blaspheme, Waffle House is awesome. I've been known to drive significant distances to go to one.
https://i.imgur.com/luH1xA6.jpg

[Derby City Duke]

It's getting spendy.

https://gobison.com/documents/2020/2/19//Football_Season_Ticket_Seating_Chart_Prices_2020.p df

Wow! I thought we were steep. Our club seats are only $1,550, including the Duke Club donation.

http://jmusports.com/feature/2020-FB-SeasonTickets

[TheKingpin28]

We have 9 tickets, 6 home games, works out to about $60 a game, these are cheap seats in Fargo. Our seats are on the home side of the field across from the end zone. I like them because it is close to the pisser and the exit doors. xdrunkyx

I thought it was closer to your pacing territory where you are forced to roam in order for NDSU to win, until POD's Place: Where **** Happens and Questions Remain, is finally built.

[POD Knows]

I thought it was closer to your pacing territory where you are forced to roam in order for NDSU to win, until POD's Place: Where **** Happens and Questions Remain, is finally built.That is true, it is closer to my SRO stomping grounds. When the Bison win their 10th Natty and fatigue really sets in, the Dome will need to be creative in order to raise money, hence the mini apartment strategy, I can see it coming.

[TheKingpin28]

That is true, it is closer to my SRO stomping grounds. When the Bison win their 10th Natty and fatigue really sets in, the Dome will need to be creative in order to raise money, hence the mini apartment strategy, I can see it coming.

I really hope NDSU does not have fatigue from it. I did not realize, your team winning championships, creates fatigue, yet Bisonville, never ceases to amaze me.

[Lorne_Malvo]

yet Bisonville, never ceases to Horrify me.

Edited for accuracy.

[POD Knows]

I really hope NDSU does not have fatigue from it. I did not realize, your team winning championships, creates fatigue, yet Bisonville, never ceases to amaze me.It is absolutely there, you can see it in the crowds, the college kids are gone, you can barely give a ticket away if you have a spare one. I am not so sure it is boredom with the games but it might be that people as a whole suck ****ing balls and are too freaking lazy to get off their ****ing asses and go out in public and be part of society.

Oh Blutto, it is so easy just to watch the game on TV, the traffic, the noise, the smelly football fans, the music is too loud, it hurts to walk. I weep for society.

[TheKingpin28]

Edited for accuracy.

I go there for recruiting info and for that, I am grateful, but after that, it's not my cup of tea.

[Derby City Duke]

It is absolutely there, you can see it in the crowds, the college kids are gone, you can barely give a ticket away if you have a spare one. I am not so sure it is boredom with the games but it might be that people as a whole suck ****ing balls and are too freaking lazy to get off their ****ing asses and go out in public and be part of society.

Oh Blutto, it is so easy just to watch the game on TV, the traffic, the noise, the smelly football fans, the music is too loud, it hurts to walk. I weep for society.

Nice ‘Animal House’ reference!

[TheKingpin28]

It is absolutely there, you can see it in the crowds, the college kids are gone, you can barely give a ticket away if you have a spare one. I am not so sure it is boredom with the games but it might be that people as a whole suck ****ing balls and are too freaking lazy to get off their ****ing asses and go out in public and be part of society.

Oh Blutto, it is so easy just to watch the game on TV, the traffic, the noise, the smelly football fans, the music is too loud, it hurts to walk. I weep for society.

I still remember the GSU days and grass tailgating. That was peak intensity. I wish we could have the fervor again.

[POD Knows]

Nice ‘Animal House’ reference!I steal all of my stuff from pop culture, I have no original material left, I am tapped.

[favorite football fan]

https://granitegrok.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/totalitarianism.jpg

[100%GRIZ]

Wow! I thought we were steep. Our club seats are only $1,550, including the Duke Club donation.

http://jmusports.com/feature/2020-FB-SeasonTickets
Don't forget the Bizon have to also pay their players!

[centennial]

There is a politics board for all your illogical posts. Please don't pollute the non politics section of the board. I don't come here to feel like I am on Facebook.

[POD Knows]

There is a politics board for all your illogical posts. Please don't pollute the non politics section of the board. I don't come here to feel like I am on Facebook.
Yea, that is my bad, it didn't see the area it was posted.

[Bisonoline]

The "Team Maker" dues is what really hammers the people with the mid field seats in Fargo. My Team Maker dues are only $50 a ticket. We also pay for tailgating spots as well.

No kidding. Mine is 1,650.00 for two seats.

[POD Knows]

No kidding. Mine is 1,650.00 for two seats.So if my math is correct, you pay about $190 per seat with the TM dues for a 6 game season.

[Bisonoline]

It is absolutely there, you can see it in the crowds, the college kids are gone, you can barely give a ticket away if you have a spare one. I am not so sure it is boredom with the games but it might be that people as a whole suck ****ing balls and are too freaking lazy to get off their ****ing asses and go out in public and be part of society.

Oh Blutto, it is so easy just to watch the game on TV, the traffic, the noise, the smelly football fans, the music is too loud, it hurts to walk. I weep for society.

It was a weird year this last season with the blizzard before homecoming and the weather really wasnt good after that. Many wont go if they cant tailgate plus the harvest was messed up.

[POD Knows]

It was a weird year this last season with the blizzard before homecoming and the weather really wasnt good after that. Many wont go if they cant tailgate plus the harvest was messed up.Yea, the late harvest was a factor, I know some people that didn't go because of that.

[Bisonoline]

So if my math is correct, you pay about $190 per seat with the TM dues for a 6 game season.

Yep.

[Bisonoline]

Yea, the late harvest was a factor, I know some people that didn't go because of that.

We missed one of the last games. We had just finished deer hunting for a week and it had been COLD. We were literally exhausted and said **** it we will watch it at home.

[caribbeanhen]

I really hope NDSU does not have fatigue from it. I did not realize, your team winning championships, creates fatigue, yet Bisonville, never ceases to amaze me.

Eventually even the Rocky horror picture show ran out of steam

[TheKingpin28]

There is a reason why I never complain about people who put forward towards TM. I do when I can, which is damn near miniscule in the grand scheme of things, but at the end of the day, I am beyond grateful for those who do. But this is why, I do not complain about where NDSU is in the big picture. Unfortunately, there are those who always give and never take and then there are those who always take and never give and then bitch and moan about why NDSU is not FBS, playing P5 football, have the IPF, etc...

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[MSUBobcat]

Unfortunately you are correct sir but I think Montana will not be the same because of this damn virus. We are about to be overrun!

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised by a 50k+ increase in population in the next year or 2, presuming our staged opening doesn't yield any major outbreak flareups that force us back into closing down. We'll not only have one of the lowest cases per capita, but also a lower unemployment than most of the country. Less likely to catch COVID + more positive economic outlook (relatively) = out of staters flocking to the Last Best Place.