Atlantic Sun plans. ? Football

[walliver]

https://asunsports.org/general/2019-20/releases/20200122lh6utq

I don’t know if they will sponsor football, ot just want to accept every D2 move-up they can.

It’s hard to picture enough move-up to expand to 20 teams.

[Lion1983]

In FCS, it will just be the current Big South under a different name. The Big South conference will drop football. The United Athletic Conference (UAC) will be a football only FCS conference.

The ASUN will expand to 20 with 10 new members coming from a couple of FBS conference. And form a new FBS conference.

[WestCoastAggie]

In FCS, it will just be the current Big South under a different name. The Big South conference will drop football. The United Athletic Conference (UAC) will be a football only FCS conference.

The ASUN will expand to 20 with 10 new members coming from a couple of FBS conference. And form a new FBS conference.

Wait a minute? FBS??? What about the FCS big south members?

[Laker]

This plan has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. Some claim that they have found a "loophole". I think it is more like a Fruit Loop.

[Lion1983]

Wait a minute? FBS??? What about the FCS big south members?

They will put football in the new UAC. Still be full members in the Big South... the Big South will just stop sponsoring football.

I think that's the best model for FCS anyway. FCS just be football only conferences. Just my opinion.

[Derby City Duke]

And Bellarmine, currently a D-II basketball that does NOT offer football, will get hung out to dry in this scenario. Think the Knights will reconsider their move to D-I given this 'exploration.'

[WestCoastAggie]

They will put football in the new UAC. Still be full members in the Big South... the Big South will just stop sponsoring football.

I think that's the best model for FCS anyway. FCS just be football only conferences. Just my opinion.

So essentially a school can be invited to join the UAC for Football and stay in their home conference?

[JayJ79]

I'm confused. What does the ASUN have to do with the Big South?
I know Kennesaw State and North Alabama are full members of the ASUN and football affiliate members of the Big South, but what does that have to do with the other members of the Big South? I don't see any mention of the Big South in the linked document

[Lion1983]

And Bellarmine, currently a D-II basketball that does NOT offer football, will get hung out to dry in this scenario. Think the Knights will reconsider their move to D-I given this 'exploration.'

Bellarmine will still be in the ASUN, along with everyone else in the ASUN. The ASUN will be their primary conference, the UAC will be their football only FCS conference. If you dont have football, it has nothing to do with you.

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I'm confused. What does the ASUN have to do with the Big South?
I know Kennesaw State and North Alabama are full members of the ASUN and football affiliate members of the Big South, but what does that have to do with the other members of the Big South? I don't see any mention of the Big South in the linked document

Most members of the Big South are also members in the CCSA

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So essentially a school can be invited to join the UAC for Football and stay in their home conference?

Yes...

[DFW HOYA]

They will put football in the new UAC. Still be full members in the Big South... the Big South will just stop sponsoring football.

I think that's the best model for FCS anyway. FCS just be football only conferences. Just my opinion.

I don't think this is the case. The only members of the UAC in 2023 are those not invited to the new CCSA.

[walliver]

I still don't see 20 schools wanting to be in the A-Sun.
IF the goal is a football-only conference, why not just spin off the current Big South schools into a rebranded football conference.
It seems to some extent that they are trying to con the NCAA into giving the new conferences an extra March Madness bid.

[Bisonator]

I still don't see 20 schools wanting to be in the A-Sun.
IF the goal is a football-only conference, why not just spin off the current Big South schools into a rebranded football conference.
It seems to some extent that they are trying to con the NCAA into giving the new conferences an extra March Madness bid.
Not sure if con is the right word, more like work around or loop hole, but this is exactly what it is about. The goal is adding another auto-bid. Not sure it has anything to do with FB, that's just a side effect IMO. This is all about getting another auto bid for the NCAA.

[Lion1983]

After further investigation, it seems like the ASUN will split into two separate conferences, one a non football conference and the other a FCS all sport conference (UAC).

North Alabama, Liberty (non football) and Bellarmine(non football) will be moved from the ASUN to the UAC.
Kennesaw State will be a football only member, Stetson, if they decide to have scholarship football they will have a football only home in the UAC.

As for other members... no idea...

[WestCoastAggie]

After further investigation, it seems like the ASUN will split into two separate conferences, one a non football conference and the other a FCS all sport conference (UAC).

North Alabama, Liberty (non football) and Bellarmine(non football) will be moved from the ASUN to the UAC.
Kennesaw State will be a football only member, Stetson, if they decide to have scholarship football they will have a football only home in the UAC.

As for other members... no idea...

So if this happens, will the ASUN pull their members away from the Big South for football?

[Lion1983]

So if this happens, will the ASUN pull their members away from the Big South for football?

The UAC will be the conference with football... I imagine, since the Big South is down to 4 football schools, they would move to the UAC as full members.

Just thinking about it, the ASUN may know something about the Big South that hasn't been made public yet. The non football schools may be merging with the Big South non football schools and the football schools making another conference.

[DFW HOYA]

This is all very confusing. here's what the press release states:

Seven Atlantic Sun teams end up in the restated A-Sun in 2023 (football schools in bold):
North Florida, Stetson, NJIT, FGCU, Jacksonville, Lipscomb, Kennesaw St., plus up to 13 schools to be named later. xcoffeex

Three Atlantic Sun teams go to the UAC which is under the limit for teams necessary to earn a bid (read=are not welcome in A-Sun 2.0):
Liberty, North Alabama, Bellarmine.

Putting aside all the Big South/UAC talk , this is the textbook definition of how not to rebuild a conference. And Monmouth and Hampton appear to be on the outside looking in.

[mvfcfan]

So basically the conference is splitting in two, with football schools in one and non-football in another, and they have to add enough D2 move ups for it to work before they do the split. Am I on the right track or totally off?

[Lion1983]

What I just found out...

The Big South is folding soon. The ASUN is taking in non football members. Liberty, UNA and Bellarmine want nothing to do with it. The ASUN commissioner is protecting the 3 by letting them take the CCSA rights, and making it a multi sport conference. The football playing schools from the Big South will join them plus a few from other FCS conference. Those schools will not be revealed until the whole deal goes public. None will be from D2, all are currently FCS schools. But the NCAA has to approve them turning the conference into a multi sport conference first.

I figure there will be a school or two from the following conferences join the new UAC (United Athletic Conference) Southland, OVC, Big South (of course).

[Lion1983]

None of that is public because a few schools in the Big South are looking for other conference options and the NCAA has to approve the new conference plan.

[Dane96]

Any MEAC or SWAC schools on the radar?

[WestCoastAggie]

Any MEAC or SWAC schools on the radar?

Most likely. It's imperative the conferences immediately announce the Celebration Bowl extension By 6/30/2020.

[WestCoastAggie]

What I just found out...

The Big South is folding soon. The ASUN is taking in non football members. Liberty, UNA and Bellarmine want nothing to do with it. The ASUN commissioner is protecting the 3 by letting them take the CCSA rights, and making it a multi sport conference. The football playing schools from the Big South will join them plus a few from other FCS conference. Those schools will not be revealed until the whole deal goes public. None will be from D2, all are currently FCS schools. But the NCAA has to approve them turning the conference into a multi sport conference first.

I figure there will be a school or two from the following conferences join the new UAC (United Athletic Conference) Southland, OVC, Big South (of course).

Either Hampton's coming back to the MEAC or the MEAC is about to be in trouble! SMH...

[UAalum72]

FGCU made an announcement today confirming they are NOT adding football

[Lion1983]

Either Hampton's coming back to the MEAC or the MEAC is about to be in trouble! SMH...

I dont know about Hamptons plans... I would assume they swap to the UAC, but they may not want to. That may be another reason the ASUN announcement was so vague. Some schools in the Big South may be looking at other conference options, instead of joining the ASUN or in Hamptons case the UAC.

[DFW HOYA]

Either Hampton's coming back to the MEAC or the MEAC is about to be in trouble! SMH...

Hampton would be worth a look for the CAA.

HU has a higher ceiling than the MEAC...as does A&T.

[Professor]

Now this is interesting.

[Lion1983]

Nobody really knows what is going on, the Big South as a conference may not be folding. I have a theory about what may be going on. It may just be a football thing.

What if, Gardner Webb and Charlston Southern are about to move football to the Pioneer League? Like Presbyterian... if so, it would explain the need for the ASUN to move to protect UNA and KSU in fear of losing them.

It did say the UAC would be an FCS conference, based primarily in the Southeast.

If so, UAC could have Hampton and NCA&T in it.
It could look like this

UNA
KSU
Jacksonville State
Chattanooga
Hampton
NCA&T
Campbell
Whoever else?

But it would be 10 with Liberty as non football.

The ASUN would invite 3 D2 non football schools up, thus the real need for the "core 7" to maintain AQ status.

The UAC would have AQ status because all schools would already be D1.

West Florida may be in play as well with this scenario.

[Professor]

Nobody really knows what is going on, the Big South as a conference may not be folding. I have a theory about what may be going on. It may just be a football thing.

What if, Gardner Webb and Charlston Southern are about to move football to the Pioneer League? Like Presbyterian... if so, it would explain the need for the ASUN to move to protect UNA and KSU in fear of losing them.

It did say the UAC would be an FCS conference, based primarily in the Southeast.

If so, UAC could have Hampton and NCA&T in it.
It could look like this

UNA
KSU
Jacksonville State
Chattanooga
Hampton
NCA&T
Campbell
Whoever else?

But it would be 10 with Liberty as non football.

The ASUN would invite 3 D2 non football schools up, thus the real need for the "core 7" to maintain AQ status.

The UAC would have AQ status because all schools would already be D1.

West Florida may be in play as well with this scenario.

Don't have any inside information , but leaving the MEAC makes no sense for us at this moment financially

[Lion1983]

Don't have any inside information , but leaving the MEAC makes no sense for us at this moment financially

May not... that is just a list I threw out there. Like I said, just a theory.

[WestCoastAggie]

Hampton would be worth a look for the CAA.

HU has a higher ceiling than the MEAC...as does A&T.

Hampton’s president has tried to garner a Colonial invite multiple times since they moved up to D1 in the 1990s.

[WestCoastAggie]

Nobody really knows what is going on, the Big South as a conference may not be folding. I have a theory about what may be going on. It may just be a football thing.

What if, Gardner Webb and Charlston Southern are about to move football to the Pioneer League? Like Presbyterian... if so, it would explain the need for the ASUN to move to protect UNA and KSU in fear of losing them.

It did say the UAC would be an FCS conference, based primarily in the Southeast.

If so, UAC could have Hampton and NCA&T in it.
It could look like this

UNA
KSU
Jacksonville State
Chattanooga
Hampton
NCA&T
Campbell
Whoever else?

But it would be 10 with Liberty as non football.

The ASUN would invite 3 D2 non football schools up, thus the real need for the "core 7" to maintain AQ status.

The UAC would have AQ status because all schools would already be D1.

West Florida may be in play as well with this scenario.

Travel from NC and VA to Alabama will be expensive for the olympic sports unless we can get a North/South division in this scenario. Realistically, the only HBCUs that fit in that league would be BCU and FAMU.

[Professor]

Hampton’s president has tried to garner a Colonial invite multiple times since they moved up to D1 in the 1990s.

And he still isn't going to get it. Hampton brings nothing to the table

[Professor]

Hampton’s president has tried to garner a Colonial invite multiple times since they moved up to D1 in the 1990s.

And he still isn't going to get it. Hampton brings nothing to the table

[ASU33]

Hampton has been after that CAA invite for at least 20 years now.

[ASU33]

Most likely. It's imperative the conferences immediately announce the Celebration Bowl extension By 6/30/2020.

According to folks that I know the deal will be done prior to then but you won't get a formal announcement until media day for the conferences.

[walliver]

It makes no sense for the Big South to fold. It is basically a geographically compact non-football conference at heart, and can easily remain so long-term. The Big South has always struggled with keeping up its numbers in football.

[ElCid]

Nobody really knows what is going on, the Big South as a conference may not be folding. I have a theory about what may be going on. It may just be a football thing.

What if, Gardner Webb and Charlston Southern are about to move football to the Pioneer League? Like Presbyterian... if so, it would explain the need for the ASUN to move to protect UNA and KSU in fear of losing them.

It did say the UAC would be an FCS conference, based primarily in the Southeast.

If so, UAC could have Hampton and NCA&T in it.
It could look like this

UNA
KSU
Jacksonville State
Chattanooga
Hampton
NCA&T
Campbell
Whoever else?

But it would be 10 with Liberty as non football.

The ASUN would invite 3 D2 non football schools up, thus the real need for the "core 7" to maintain AQ status.

The UAC would have AQ status because all schools would already be D1.

West Florida may be in play as well with this scenario.

I'm pretty sure that Chattanooga isn't going anywhere. That might just be wishful thinking on someone's part.

[Lion1983]

Chattanooga has explored leaving the SoCon more than once. They may not. It was just examples.

[dgtw]

ASU33...Would your school and A&M be interested in this deal?

[UNHWildcat18]

I'm pretty sure that Chattanooga isn't going anywhere. That might just be wishful thinking on someone's part.

If anything do you think KSU would hop to the socon if given the invite? I know nothing about the southern conference ramblings or big south, seems like a more natural fit over the thrown together big south/Asun ongoing ordeal.

[WileECoyote06]

It makes no sense for the Big South to fold. It is basically a geographically compact non-football conference at heart, and can easily remain so long-term. The Big South has always struggled with keeping up its numbers in football.

Which is why I wonder why people are so sure A&T or another MEAC flagship would be willing to jump to the Big South. With the exception of the Hampton move, the MEAC has been pretty stable. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. xscanx

[ASU33]

ASU33...Would your school and A&M be interested in this deal?

I can't speak for A&M the only time recently where we've entertained leaving the SWAC was a few years ago when us and A&M were considering bolting to the MEAC. Unless something significant changes then I don't see it in all honesty.

[ElCid]

If anything do you think KSU would hop to the socon if given the invite? I know nothing about the southern conference ramblings or big south, seems like a more natural fit over the thrown together big south/Asun ongoing ordeal.

I don't think they will get an invite. The current make up is balanced and fairly stable (3 larger public schools [UTC, ETSU, WCU], 2 smaller public schools [CID/VMI], 4 private [FUR, MER, WOF, SAM]). Plus UNCG (large public) as non-football. KSU would upset this balance. Also I'm not sure KSU would meet our generally accepted top to bottom standards either. They might, but not so sure. And I am not just talking about football. But I don't have the inside scoop on the dirty politics of it. I just have rumor.

[walliver]

I don't think they will get an invite. The current make up is balanced and fairly stable (3 larger public schools [UTC, ETSU, WCU], 2 smaller public schools [CID/VMI], 4 private [FUR, MER, WOF, SAM]). Plus UNCG (large public) as non-football. KSU would upset this balance. Also I'm not sure KSU would meet our generally accepted top to bottom standards either. They might, but not so sure. And I am not just talking about football. But I don't have the inside scoop on the dirty politics of it. I just have rumor.

I remember when Danny Morrison was promoting KSU as a non-football member 15 years ago or so, but that never went through. With the conference's current push for an NCAA at-large, KSU will need to step up basketball to be considered. I personally don't thin the conference should expand beyond 9 football schools (or add any non-football schools). Playing every school every year with 3-4 OOC openings is an ideal FCS schedule.

If someone leaves, the replacement would likely depend on exactly which team(s) leaves. If Chatty left, KSU would be a strong candidate, but also would likely want to go wherever Chatty goes (and if UTC leaves, ETSU and possibly WCU might follow). I also suspect there would be some interest in adding Campbell.

I doubt there is any major upheaval in FCS for the nest few years. If there is upheaval at the top of the food chain, I could see changes in FCS, possibly a new conference with the easternmost OVC, Southland, and western-most public SoCon schools, with the SoCon moving towards a "southern Patriot League" makeup. Although the topic frequently comes up, I don't see 9 southern schools with academic pretensions and scholarship D-I football coming together any time soon. A lot of this just depends on what college football looks like a decade from now (paying players, etc).

[Professor]

Which is why I wonder why people are so sure A&T or another MEAC flagship would be willing to jump to the Big South. With the exception of the Hampton move, the MEAC has been pretty stable. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. xscanx

Exactly.

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I can't speak for A&M the only time recently where we've entertained leaving the SWAC was a few years ago when us and A&M were considering bolting to the MEAC. Unless something significant changes then I don't see it in all honesty.

Man i wish that would have happened.

[ASU33]

Exactly.

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Man i wish that would have happened.


It definitely would've been interesting. The fact that it was in the works and was not a secret escalated the removal of the past SWAC commissioner who nobody was happy with.

[Lion1983]

https://youtu.be/5t8AjIhdtcA

[Lion1983]

https://youtu.be/PG_BR_AMqLA

[DFW HOYA]

Makes a little more sense. Now where they find six more football schools is the open question.

[Lion1983]

Makes a little more sense. Now where they find six more football schools is the open question.

Apparently, they have intrested schools, or they wouldn't be this far.

I suspect JSU is 1.

[Libertine]

https://youtu.be/PG_BR_AMqLA

This right here is why the A-Sun -- with or without football -- is a better conference than the Big South in terms of vision and leadership. I have no idea whether this idea will ever get anywhere close to off the ground but the fact that the one conference is willing to explore a creative idea -- or any idea for that matter -- and that the commissioner is willing to put himself out in front to communicate and promote it, makes one conference drastically different from the other.

[mvfcfan]

If JSU leaves I almost guarantee that the OVC adds WIU to replace them.

[NDSUKurt]

If JSU leaves I almost guarantee that the OVC adds WIU to replace them.

Why would they want WIU?

Their financial problems (or the state funding issue) are well known, they have had only minor success in football, and there would be other schools that better fit geographically.

[Lion1983]

If JSU leaves I almost guarantee that the OVC adds WIU to replace them.

What about Youngstown State? Or both?

[mvfcfan]

YSU is probably too far outside of the footprint. If JSU leaves the OVC will want a football school. WIU has ties with EIU and is relatively close to SEMO, SIUE, and Murray St. There aren't a whole lot of choices out there and it is better than adding a non-football school like Lipscomb.

[Lion1983]

YSU is probably too far outside of the footprint. If JSU leaves the OVC will want a football school. WIU has ties with EIU and is relatively close to SEMO, SIUE, and Murray St. There aren't a whole lot of choices out there and it is better than adding a non-football school like Lipscomb.

Kinda funny that a school in Ohio is outside the footprint of the Ohio Valley Conference...

[van]

Yeah, and the Mahoning River does flow to the Beaver which flows to the Ohio

[mvfcfan]

My point is that YSU is almost 6 hours from the closest OVC school. Some people act like JSU is way outside of the footprint and they are only around 3 hours from Nashville.

[Lion1983]

My point is that YSU is almost 6 hours from the closest OVC school. Some people act like JSU is way outside of the footprint and they are only around 3 hours from Nashville.

I understood your point, was by no means disagreeing with you. I just think its funny that an Ohio school isn't in the Ohio Valley Conference....

[uni88]

I understood your point, was by no means disagreeing with you. I just think its funny that an Ohio school isn't in the Ohio Valley Conference....They might not have any schools in Ohio but the OVC is pretty well centered around the Ohio River valley and most of the schools are in the watershed.

I don't think the MVC has any schools in the Missouri River watershed. And the MVFC only has 2. The MVC would be more accurate if M = Mississippi.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[HootyHoo]

This is very interesting news. I'm hoping Jacksonville State, Liberty, NC A&T, Chattanooga, FAMU join KSU, UNA, and Campbell to create a new super conference. Nobody would be able to trash the Owls schedule then.

[Lion1983]

This is very interesting news. I'm hoping Jacksonville State, Liberty, NC A&T, Chattanooga, FAMU join KSU, UNA, and Campbell to create a new super conference. Nobody would be able to trash the Owls schedule then.

8 schools in the UAC.

State funded schools in a tight geographic footprint...

All football playing schools

UNA
KSU
3
4
5
6
7
8

That leaves out Liberty, Campbell because of private

Leaves out NCA&T and FAMU because of Geography.

[Libertine]

8 schools in the UAC.

State funded schools in a tight geographic footprint...

All football playing schools

UNA
KSU
3
4
5
6
7
8

That leaves out Liberty, Campbell because of private

Leaves out NCA&T and FAMU because of Geography.

There's also the fact that the UAC would be an FCS football conference which would, by itself, preclude Liberty's involvement.

[Lion1983]

There's also the fact that the UAC would be an FCS football conference which would, by itself, preclude Liberty's involvement.

Liberty could have been in the conference, without football. But they said all state funded schools....

[walliver]

This is very interesting news. I'm hoping Jacksonville State, Liberty, NC A&T, Chattanooga, FAMU join KSU, UNA, and Campbell to create a new super conference. Nobody would be able to trash the Owls schedule then.

I don't see how this would appeal to Campbell unless there is a complete collapse of Big South football and the only other option would be as a football independent. Non-football travel expenses would skyrocket leaving the Big South. If the schools you listed were to form a new conference, Campbell would more likely try to get Chatty's SoCon spot. Chattanooga is frequently rumored to leave the SoCon, but with Samford, Mercer, and the return of ETSU, is not the geographic outlier it had been in the past.

[Lion1983]

I don't see how this would appeal to Campbell unless there is a complete collapse of Big South football and the only other option would be as a football independent. Non-football travel expenses would skyrocket leaving the Big South. If the schools you listed were to form a new conference, Campbell would more likely try to get Chatty's SoCon spot. Chattanooga is frequently rumored to leave the SoCon, but with Samford, Mercer, and the return of ETSU, is not the geographic outlier it had been in the past.

Campbell would only be interested if they had no other options, but that said, they wouldn't be invited because of not being a state school. Wouldn't bother me, I enjoyed having Campbell fans in Florence this past season. Good people.

[aggie2039]

8 schools in the UAC.

State funded schools in a tight geographic footprint...

All football playing schools

UNA
KSU
3
4
5
6
7
8

That leaves out Liberty, Campbell because of private

Leaves out NCA&T and FAMU because of Geography.

I wonder how A&T joining the BS effects this idea of a football only conference? A&T joining BS has made the conference bit more stable as in pertains to football? What Div 2 schools within the ASUN footprint are looking to start a FCS football program?

[Lion1983]

I wonder how A&T joining the BS effects this idea of a football only conference? A&T joining BS has made the conference bit more stable as in pertains to football? What Div 2 schools within the ASUN footprint are looking to start a FCS football program?

I dont know about stable, I keep hearing this is their "stepping stone" to FBS...

[BigBlueMU]

I would think this leaves Monmouth on the outside looking in, again. It's a shame too as they were just starting to settle into the Big South. This again brings us to the same "too academically inferior for the Patriot" and "too small for the CAA" spiral.

Also, first time poster, long time follower of AGS.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I would think this leaves Monmouth on the outside looking in, again. It's a shame too as they were just starting to settle into the Big South. This again brings us to the same "too academically inferior for the Patriot" and "too small for the CAA" spiral.

Also, first time poster, long time follower of AGS.

Welcome to the board MU, happy to have you here.

[Lion1983]

I would think this leaves Monmouth on the outside looking in, again. It's a shame too as they were just starting to settle into the Big South. This again brings us to the same "too academically inferior for the Patriot" and "too small for the CAA" spiral.

Also, first time poster, long time follower of AGS.

I imagine yall would still be in the Big South for football. I dont see any of the Big South football schools being involved in this other than UNA and KSU if it was to actually happen.

The commissioner of the ASUN said a few things that pretty much says nobody from the Big South will be in.

1- All state funded public schools
2- tight geographic footprint
3- only 8 schools.


We know 2 are UNA and KSU.
So in order to have an auto bid into tournaments, 7 of the 8 will have to be current D1 schools.

So with a tight geographic footprint to UNA and KSU, there are not too many schools that qualify, so you can throw your ideas in if you want. I dont feel like arguing why some schools would or wouldnt do it.

If a D2 school is part of it, it would only be 1. So my guess is West Florida. The other 5 would have to be current FCS schools.

[Lion1983]

All that said, after talking with a few people, one in particular, if the new conference does not happen, there may be a move by the ASUN to expand to 16 and start football in the FCS

[Bisonoline]

I would think this leaves Monmouth on the outside looking in, again. It's a shame too as they were just starting to settle into the Big South. This again brings us to the same "too academically inferior for the Patriot" and "too small for the CAA" spiral.

Also, first time poster, long time follower of AGS.

Welcome!

[Derby City Duke]

I would think this leaves Monmouth on the outside looking in, again. It's a shame too as they were just starting to settle into the Big South. This again brings us to the same "too academically inferior for the Patriot" and "too small for the CAA" spiral.

Also, first time poster, long time follower of AGS.

Welcome aboard!!

[aggie2039]

I dont know about stable, I keep hearing this is their "stepping stone" to FBS...

I hear it too, however realistically it would be for at least 10 years.

[aggie2039]

I would think this leaves Monmouth on the outside looking in, again. It's a shame too as they were just starting to settle into the Big South. This again brings us to the same "too academically inferior for the Patriot" and "too small for the CAA" spiral.

Also, first time poster, long time follower of AGS.

I believe it will be tougher for the AUC to recruit schools than they think...not many D2 schools within their footprint looking to move up. Time will tell!

[Professor]

I dont know about stable, I keep hearing this is their "stepping stone" to FBS...

That's the hope. That Sunbelt East looks like the dream.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I dont know about stable, I keep hearing this is their "stepping stone" to FBS...

That would be so stupid. Florida A&M STILL HASN'T RECOVERED. That was almost 20 years ago.

The state of North Carolina is already BIGLY over-saturated with FBS teams. You already have the core four ACC schools plus East Carolina, App State and Charlotte.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I would think this leaves Monmouth on the outside looking in, again. It's a shame too as they were just starting to settle into the Big South. This again brings us to the same "too academically inferior for the Patriot" and "too small for the CAA" spiral.

Also, first time poster, long time follower of AGS.

Monmouth will be OK for a little while -- the Big South is not going to kick one of their flagship football programs to the curb just yet, no reason to. Monmouth's entry into the Big South in 2013 was a marriage of convenience. The conference needed to maintain 6+ members for the auto-bid and Monmouth needed a scholarship league. They were jettisoned from NEC football when they moved all sports from the NEC to the MAAC. While they are indeed geographically out of place, the school they actually replaced in the Big South at the time was Stony Brook, who along with Albany, moved into the CAA in football.

I do believe that Monmouth will indeed be a candidate to join the CAA as an all-sports member in the near future. Up-and-coming school, growing athletic profile, CAA has no presence in NJ. Geographic proximity to Delaware, Drexel and Hofstra -- makes too much sense.

[walliver]

For the new conference to work, it seems it would require at least 4 of Tennessee Tech, Tennessee State, UT-Martin, Austin Peay, Chattanooga, ETSU, and possibly WCU to join. And that is just to get to 6 teams. To get to 8 teams (which is much preferable), with KSU and INA assumed, would require 6 of those schools. Are there any other D-1 football candidates. Have I missed that meet the UAC criteria?

[Lion1983]

For the new conference to work, it seems it would require at least 4 of Tennessee Tech, Tennessee State, UT-Martin, Austin Peay, Chattanooga, ETSU, and possibly WCU to join. And that is just to get to 6 teams. To get to 8 teams (which is much preferable), with KSU and INA assumed, would require 6 of those schools. Are there any other D-1 football candidates. Have I missed that meet the UAC criteria?

EKU, Murray State, Morehead State (but would have to add scholarship football)

Even if it were 7 D1 schools in all, that's an AQ, to get the 8, I think West Florida would get the invite.

Tennessee Tech, Alabama A&M, Bama St, Florida A&M? I dont know how the SWAC schools would feel about joining this type of conference...

You can also include all 4 Louisiana schools, possibly Central Arkansas and Missouri schools. But they would be longshots.

[mvfcfan]

A-SUN football isn't happening anytime soon. So many flaws with this so called plan. Just be happy that the Big South is getting NC A&T.

Murray State doesn't care about football. The only thing they care about is basketball. Morehead State probably can't afford scholarship football and if they could they would not join a league with more travel. The only place EKU is ever going is FBS and that's also pie in the sky. Lastly the OVC is a better league than the ASUN. Maybe JSU would join since the travel might be better for them and because of their rivalry with UNA, but no one else from the OVC is ever joining the Big South / ASUN.

[Lion1983]

A-SUN football isn't happening anytime soon. So many flaws with this so called plan. Just be happy that the Big South is getting NC A&T.

Murray State doesn't care about football. The only thing they care about is basketball. Morehead State probably can't afford scholarship football and if they could they would not join a league with more travel. The only place EKU is ever going is FBS and that's also pie in the sky. Lastly the OVC is a better league than the ASUN. Maybe JSU would join since the travel might be better for them and because of their rivalry with UNA, but no one else from the OVC is ever joining the Big South / ASUN.

Didnt say anything about the Big South/ASUN deal...

This is mostly about the ASUN split and creating a new conference called the UAC.... 8 FCS football members, in a tight geographic area, that are also state funded public schools. It would be 6 plus UNA and KSU.

[mvfcfan]

I get that. What I am saying is that if anyone from the OVC leaves it will be JSU and that is only because of UNA. No one else from the OVC is going to join the ASUN. Belmont left the ASUN for a reason. In fact most schools in the OVC probably wouldn't mind losing JSU since they are an outlier in the conference anyways.

[PaladinFan]

Didnt say anything about the Big South/ASUN deal...

This is mostly about the ASUN split and creating a new conference called the UAC.... 8 FCS football members, in a tight geographic area, that are also state funded public schools. It would be 6 plus UNA and KSU.

I'm no expert, but it sounds super expensive for a bunch of schools with very little football chops to all band together and create a new conference.

I also see no benefit to those established programs to join up with a bunch of new programs.

Nothing really will surprise me with the Big South. They are a conference in survival mode and will probably continue to look outside the box for stability.

[Pinnum]

If a D2 school is part of it, it would only be 1. So my guess is West Florida. The other 5 would have to be current FCS schools.

I don't believe this is correct.

It has always been my understanding that this is an exit by the Atlantic 7. It isn't the football schools that are leaving the conference. They are taking the conference and the Atlantic 7 will split off and form their own conference while keeping the name ASun. This is exactly what the Big East did. The American Conference is the original Big East but the name was negotiated in the split and the Catholic 7 took the name for their newly formed conference.

I expect it will heavily be D2 teams.

And I know that they have said tight geographic footprint but tight compared to what? Remember, they consider the ASUN non-football members to be a tight conference with the NYC metro area (NJIT), Louisville (Bellarmine), and South Florida (FGCU). I think they are comparing it to the expansion the WAC is making.

Schools I expect have been in conversations about joining to play football: Arkansas Tech, Florida Tech, West Florida, Valdasta St., UNC-Pembroke.

[Lion1983]

I don't believe this is correct.

It has always been my understanding that this is an exit by the Atlantic 7. It isn't the football schools that are leaving the conference. They are taking the conference and the Atlantic 7 will split off and form their own conference while keeping the name ASun. This is exactly what the Big East did. The American Conference is the original Big East but the name was negotiated in the split and the Catholic 7 took the name for their newly formed conference.

I expect it will heavily be D2 teams.

And I know that they have said tight geographic footprint but tight compared to what? Remember, they consider the ASUN non-football members to be a tight conference with the NYC metro area (NJIT), Louisville (Bellarmine), and South Florida (FGCU). I think they are comparing it to the expansion the WAC is making.

Schools I expect have been in conversations about joining to play football: Arkansas Tech, Florida Tech, West Florida, Valdasta St., UNC-Pembroke.

The problem with that is, to have a AQ 7 of the 8 has to be already transitioned into D1. If the UAC had all D2 schools transitioning up to D1, excluding UNA and KSU, 6 of the 8 would not be eligible thus making the conference a non AQ conference.

Did you watch the videos the ASUN commissioner put out explaining how it would work? Don't sound like D2 schools to me... if you didn't I can post links...

What I do know after several emails with Ted Gumbart, is this, the schools involved have been in communication with each other about the possibility of forming a new conference. They are very tight geographically and are rivaled laden. He will not share who the schools are because of current conference obligations and not wanting them to face any fines or other hardships from their current conferences. The 2023 timeline, for the UAC deal has to do with North Alabama completing their transition to D1 so nobody will be a transitional program and it gives the other schools the appropriate time to leave their current conferences.

So in short, this will not be a conference full of D2 move ups, may be 1, I think West Florida may be included, but that would not keep the conference from a AQ.

[Laker]

I think West Florida may be included, but that would not keep the conference from a AQ.

I kind of wish West Florida would have been gone last season...................

[Pinnum]

The problem with that is, to have a AQ 7 of the 8 has to be already transitioned into D1. If the UAC had all D2 schools transitioning up to D1, excluding UNA and KSU, 6 of the 8 would not be eligible thus making the conference a non AQ conference.


No, that isn’t accurate. Two of the key NCAA bylaws that apply I have listed below. I should note that I did a lot of research on this before the ASUN announcement as I had a similar plan I was looking into. I was really excited to see the ASUN taking such bold steps.

3.3.1.3 Composition of Conference. All of the members of the conference shall be active members of Di- vision I or be engaged in the reclassification process pursuant to Bylaw 20.5. (Revised: 1/11/94 effective 9/2/94, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

31.3.4.4.1 Multisport Conference. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in a particu- lar sport, a multisport conference (see Bylaw 20.02.5) must be a core conference (see Bylaw 31.02.3) and must include six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together. (Revised: 4/27/00 10/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 8/5/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

[Lion1983]

No, that isn’t accurate. Two of the key NCAA bylaws that apply I have listed below. I should note that I did a lot of research on this before the ASUN announcement as I had a similar plan I was looking into. I was really excited to see the ASUN taking such bold steps.

3.3.1.3 Composition of Conference. All of the members of the conference shall be active members of Di- vision I or be engaged in the reclassification process pursuant to Bylaw 20.5. (Revised: 1/11/94 effective 9/2/94, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

31.3.4.4.1 Multisport Conference. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in a particu- lar sport, a multisport conference (see Bylaw 20.02.5) must be a core conference (see Bylaw 31.02.3) and must include six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together. (Revised: 4/27/00 10/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 8/5/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

Well the core conference thing is the problem.... bylaw 20.02.5 and 31.02.3 are probably going to tell you why it cant happen the way you say. May not, but I do know that a conference cant have AQ status while the majority of its schools are reclassifying. The fact that they are reclassifying means they themselves cant make any postseasons, so how would the conference?

I know, through some good friends of mine that are JSU people, that JSU is part of this trying to happen, I do think JSU would want to join a all sports conference with UNA and KSU, but I dont think they would do it with UNA, KSU and 5 D2 move ups.

[Pinnum]

Well the core conference thing is the problem.... bylaw 20.02.5 and 31.02.3 are probably going to tell you why it cant happen the way you say. May not, but I do know that a conference cant have AQ status while the majority of its schools are reclassifying. The fact that they are reclassifying means they themselves cant make any postseasons, so how would the conference?

I know, through some good friends of mine that are JSU people, that JSU is part of this trying to happen, I do think JSU would want to join a all sports conference with UNA and KSU, but I dont think they would do it with UNA, KSU and 5 D2 move ups.

Yes, they can. They absolutely can.

You have to read between the lines of what is said on the video. They specifically say that they need to wait a few years for the split because they need to meet the terms for the continuity exception. The continuity exception allows the new conference to have all of the rights of the previous conference.

Why it is important is because if they are considered a continuation of the previous conference and not a new conference, then they don't need to meet the requirements for a new conference.

The grace exception for core conferences kicks in which still allows them to act as if they did before. This is within the 20.02.5.5 rule you were looking to say why it wouldn't work.


20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11

This is why they are talking about going to 16 teams for two - three years and then splitting. The D2 schools will start their transition within the larger conference and finish it in the new conference with their last two years using the grace period.

The D2 schools are state schools, and I think that is important. They are looking for schools that are looking to make the big jump to make real investments into football. All of their word choice and how they sell the plan sounds like it meets all the requirements for being D2 focused but they don't want to say it because it wouldn't sound as grand if they did.




Below are the other rules you mentioned.

31.02.3 Core Conference. A core conference is a multisport conference that has been elected to membership and, as a result of legislation, is identified in the applicable sections of Constitution 4 related to representation in the NCAA governance structure. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)


20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11) (a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports

20.02.5.3 Regular-Season Conference Competition. Multisport conference members shall participate in regular season conference competition, subject to the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(b) In football or in a minimum of two men's team sports other than men's basketball [as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2(b)], teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue;

20.02.5.4 Continuity. A multisport conference shall establish continuity. To establish continuity, a multisport conference must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5.1. In addition, the conference must meet the requirements of Bylaws 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for a period of eight consecutive years. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)



20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11

[Lion1983]

Yes, they can. They absolutely can.

You have to read between the lines of what is said on the video. They specifically say that they need to wait a few years for the split because they need to meet the terms for the continuity exception. The continuity exception allows the new conference to have all of the rights of the previous conference.

Why it is important is because if they are considered a continuation of the previous conference and not a new conference, then they don't need to meet the requirements for a new conference.

The grace exception for core conferences kicks in which still allows them to act as if they did before. This is within the 20.02.5.5 rule you were looking to say why it wouldn't work.


20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11

This is why they are talking about going to 16 teams for two - three years and then splitting. The D2 schools will start their transition within the larger conference and finish it in the new conference with their last two years using the grace period.

The D2 schools are state schools, and I think that is important. They are looking for schools that are looking to make the big jump to make real investments into football. All of their word choice and how they sell the plan sounds like it meets all the requirements for being D2 focused but they don't want to say it because it wouldn't sound as grand if they did.




Below are the other rules you mentioned.

31.02.3 Core Conference. A core conference is a multisport conference that has been elected to membership and, as a result of legislation, is identified in the applicable sections of Constitution 4 related to representation in the NCAA governance structure. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)


20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11) (a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports

20.02.5.3 Regular-Season Conference Competition. Multisport conference members shall participate in regular season conference competition, subject to the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(b) In football or in a minimum of two men's team sports other than men's basketball [as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2(b)], teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue;

20.02.5.4 Continuity. A multisport conference shall establish continuity. To establish continuity, a multisport conference must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5.1. In addition, the conference must meet the requirements of Bylaws 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for a period of eight consecutive years. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)



20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11

I still dont see why JSU would be the least bit interested in a conference made up of that many D2 move ups... Kennesaw either. UNA is JSUs historical rivalry, I get that, but we can just schedule each other yearly, KSU is a possibility of a budding rivalry for JSU and UNA, but still, they can just schedule each other.

I can see West Florida joining, one of UNAs old all sports rivals, but I dont see West Georgia, Valdosta State because they both basically said they have no interest in D1. West Alabama dont have the money. Florida Tech would kill the tight geographic footprint that is being told about the UAC. Same with UNC Pembroke.

Basically the only way that it would work (and I know most dont believe any of these schools would be interested) and in an Email conversation with Ted Gumbart, he says it will be current FCS members in the UAC, but i can see D2 move ups in the (new) ASUN. But by the parameters he set, some combination of this list is the only way I see it working.

UNA and KSU are the sure things

JSU
Chattanooga
Tennessee Tech
Tennessee State
UT Martin
Austin Peay
ETSU
West Florida
Murray State
EKU
Morehead State (if they decided to add scholarship football)
Murray State
Central Arkansas
Missouri State
SE Missouri State

Pretty much every school, someone post the argument that they wouldn't leave their current conferences to form a new conference. But for the UAC to work, it has to be some combination of these schools. If I'm creating a fantasy conference out of this, it would be

UNA
KSU
JSU
Chattanooga
Murray State
Central Arkansas
SE Missouri State
Missouri State


The commissioner did say another thing that kinda suggests that it will be current D1 schools,
They will not take more schools from a single conference that would hurt their AQ status.

But the fact remains, until they make an announcement on who will be in the conference (if it even happens) nobody will know and it really doesn't matter.

[Pinnum]

Jacksonville State was a D2 that moved up and has become a strong D1 program. I believe they see other programs that will do the same. They states they are looking at are hotbeds for football talent and with the resources of state schools behind them they can go a long way when offering partial scholarships.

This actually provides a lot of options for JSU to help elevate the profile of their program.

With so many transitioning programs in the conference there will be few teams eligible for the auto-bid. That means that JSU has a high probability of getting it each year in football and in basketball. That means they won't need to be as concerned about their OOC schedule for football which will allow them to schedule two FBS games a year. That will help bring in more G5 recruits and sell the program.

Additionally, moving to a conference with fewer members will allow for the school to bring in more money since the NCAA/CFP payouts from the football and basketball funds will be split between fewer schools. This is one of the big selling points for the schools in the plan.

And there is an understanding that the two new conferences will work together by scheduling basketball challenges and other contests in other sports so that they build local rivalries. So they need a football school in Florida to be in the footprint of the basketball schools. They need a northern football school to serve the northern basketball schools. Remember this isn't merely a football plan. The ASUN (basketball) schools are also looking to get something out of it. So you have to look at it from all angels and see what each side is getting.

Also, per the comments you mention from the video about not harming other D1 conferences, that was another indication to me that they would have to be taking more D2 members.

[Lion1983]

Jacksonville State was a D2 that moved up and has become a strong D1 program. I believe they see other programs that will do the same. They states they are looking at are hotbeds for football talent and with the resources of state schools behind them they can go a long way when offering partial scholarships.

This actually provides a lot of options for JSU to help elevate the profile of their program.

With so many transitioning programs in the conference there will be few teams eligible for the auto-bid. That means that JSU has a high probability of getting it each year in football and in basketball. That means they won't need to be as concerned about their OOC schedule for football which will allow them to schedule two FBS games a year. That will help bring in more G5 recruits and sell the program.

Additionally, moving to a conference with fewer members will allow for the school to bring in more money since the NCAA/CFP payouts from the football and basketball funds will be split between fewer schools. This is one of the big selling points for the schools in the plan.

And there is an understanding that the two new conferences will work together by scheduling basketball challenges and other contests in other sports so that they build local rivalries. So they need a football school in Florida to be in the footprint of the basketball schools. They need a northern football school to serve the northern basketball schools. Remember this isn't merely a football plan. The ASUN (basketball) schools are also looking to get something out of it. So you have to look at it from all angels and see what each side is getting.

Also, per the comments you mention from the video about not harming other D1 conferences, that was another indication to me that they would have to be taking more D2 members.

You make valid points.... and this is not an argument for the sake of argument.

I have been talking via Email and in person with the commissioner of the ASUN since UNA have been in the conference. One thing that has stood out to me is, in his words on several occasions,
"There is no real reason why so many similar schools in the same geographic area should be in 3-4 different conferences. It takes away from the rivalry aspect of sports, especially football, and in FCS, butts in the seats matters."

He also said
"You can have 1 extremely strong FCS conference if we could bring certain schools together."

He may be talking about a few D2 schools, but that's not the vibe I get from him.

On the non football side, yes, more than likely there will be D2 move ups. There is a plethora of non football schools that could do it in the ASUN footprint.

[Pinnum]

You make valid points.... and this is not an argument for the sake of argument.

I have been talking via Email and in person with the commissioner of the ASUN since UNA have been in the conference. One thing that has stood out to me is, in his words on several occasions,
"There is no real reason why so many similar schools in the same geographic area should be in 3-4 different conferences. It takes away from the rivalry aspect of sports, especially football, and in FCS, butts in the seats matters."

He also said
"You can have 1 extremely strong FCS conference if we could bring certain schools together."

He may be talking about a few D2 schools, but that's not the vibe I get from him.

On the non football side, yes, more than likely there will be D2 move ups. There is a plethora of non football schools that could do it in the ASUN footprint.

When speaking to you, he considers you a D1 program, right? You're not considered a D2 move up, are you? Any program getting an invite is instantly considered a D1 program just as UNA is considered one.

It is possible that there is an attempt to lure three of four D1 schools. Those may be the anchors. I mean, JSU vs KSU could develop a nice rivalry no matter who the other teams are in the conference, add in a Chattanooga and you have a few strong teams that are close together that can build a solid core. So having three or four established D1 programs filled out with programs like UNA (move ups) would still yield a strong conference in the short term and could be very strong in the long term.

It is also possible the first hope is for all D1s but they know it isn't likely they can convince all the schools to join them so they are laying the ground work for making it work by supplementing with D2s as needed.

But I can say that the plan isn't for non-football move ups to be the majority of the move ups. The ASun (basketball) side is set with the teams they need. It is the UAC (football) that needs teams and there aren't likely enough willing to make the leap.

This is really about KSU and UNA wanting to be in the Ohio Valley or the SoCon, right? Those two conference have the teams that are desirable.


What schools in those conference don't feel like they are getting much out of their conference and can get more out of a conference with UNA and KSU?

JSU and UTC are kind of outliers in their conferences and I get the impression they are the main targets. But the real wildcard is how dependent these FCS programs are on their conference geography. Does being a state school and not playing in a conference with other state schools help or hurt JSU and UTC? Does the change in conference impact recruiting?

I could see UNA benefitting from being in a conference with JSU but I am not sure JSU benefits from having UNA elevated to becoming their peer and an in-state rival.

I could see KSU and UNA benefitting from having a rival right up the road in Chattanooga. But does UTC benefit from joining a conference with Tenn Tech, Austin Peay, Tenn State, or Tenn-Martin? Is part of UTC's competative advantage the fact that they play out of state teams that is so different than those played by moat of the other Tennessee FCS schools?

And while football is big. Do schools want to give up what they have going for them with basketball? The SoCon and OVC have been strong basketball conferences.

[Lion1983]

When speaking to you, he considers you a D1 program, right? You're not considered a D2 move up, are you? Any program getting an invite is instantly considered a D1 program just as UNA is considered one.

It is possible that there is an attempt to lure three of four D1 schools. Those may be the anchors. I mean, JSU vs KSU could develop a nice rivalry no matter who the other teams are in the conference, add in a Chattanooga and you have a few strong teams that are close together that can build a solid core. So having three or four established D1 programs filled out with programs like UNA (move ups) would still yield a strong conference in the short term and could be very strong in the long term.

It is also possible the first hope is for all D1s but they know it isn't likely they can convince all the schools to join them so they are laying the ground work for making it work by supplementing with D2s as needed.

But I can say that the plan isn't for non-football move ups to be the majority of the move ups. The ASun (basketball) side is set with the teams they need. It is the UAC (football) that needs teams and there aren't likely enough willing to make the leap.

This is really about KSU and UNA wanting to be in the Ohio Valley or the SoCon, right? Those two conference have the teams that are desirable.


What schools in those conference don't feel like they are getting much out of their conference and can get more out of a conference with UNA and KSU?

JSU and UTC are kind of outliers in their conferences and I get the impression they are the main targets. But the real wildcard is how dependent these FCS programs are on their conference geography. Does being a state school and not playing in a conference with other state schools help or hurt JSU and UTC? Does the change in conference impact recruiting?

I could see UNA benefitting from being in a conference with JSU but I am not sure JSU benefits from having UNA elevated to becoming their peer and an in-state rival.

I could see KSU and UNA benefitting from having a rival right up the road in Chattanooga. But does UTC benefit from joining a conference with Tenn Tech, Austin Peay, Tenn State, or Tenn-Martin? Is part of UTC's competative advantage the fact that they play out of state teams that is so different than those played by moat of the other Tennessee FCS schools?

And while football is big. Do schools want to give up what they have going for them with basketball? The SoCon and OVC have been strong basketball conferences.


Yes, UNA is a move up. Dont think anyone is saying their not.

UNA, on paper is one of JSUs peer institutions. JSU is one of UNAs peer institutions.

Like I said, I dont know how or who it will make up. But one has to figure, if it's a tight geographic footprint they want for the UAC, with 8 schools, given that UNA and KSU are the given, JSU should be the first interested, may not happen, but interested. Then givin proximity, and a decent rivalry with JSU, Chattanooga has to cross ones mind.

If the "core" of the conference is UNA, KSU, JSU and Chattanooga, (this is just theory) and the others are from D2 and it dont cost AQ status for the conference, I dont really see any school that addresses the qualifications (for lack of a better word) that was set by the announcement.

West Georgia has put going to D1 on the back burner publicly.
Valdosta State says they have no intrest in D1.
West Alabama can barely afford D2.
Most of the other Tennessee schools with football are private.
UNC Pembroke is not in a tight footprint with the rest.
West Florida, although I would want them, is kinda out of the footprint, unless you can make a case for a couple of Louisiana schools joining with the "core" and have West Florida on that end. (Southland seems over crowded anyway)

But what if the UAC deal dont happen? Would the ASUN offer invites to 6 football playing schools and just start sponsoring football with 8 (not including Stetson and Liberty) football schools and 16 all sports?

[Pinnum]

But what if the UAC deal dont happen? Would the ASUN offer invites to 6 football playing schools and just start sponsoring football with 8 (not including Stetson and Liberty) football schools and 16 all sports?

No.

That would cost them $1.7 Million a year they are currently planning on.

That is the additional amount they get from the NCAA by splitting into two basketball playing conferences.

They won't expand if they can't split into two and accommodate KSU/UNA's football ambitions in-house.

[Lion1983]

No.

That would cost them $1.7 Million a year they are currently planning on.

That is the additional amount they get from the NCAA by splitting into two basketball playing conferences.

They won't expand if they can't split into two and accommodate KSU/UNA's football ambitions in-house.

I understand that, but with the right 6 invited, you may see 2 or 3 bid? Just looking at best case. But your right. It wouldnt work.

[WestCoastAggie]

My speculative UAC list of targets:

1. UNA
2. KSU
3. UTC
4. Tenn Tech
5. WCU
6. Nichols State
7. SELA
8. Ala A&M
9. Tennessee State
10. Alabama State
11. FAMU

Ideally, if UNA and KSU could pull in JSU, Ala A&M, Ala State and WCU, that could be a pretty compact conference. WCU is only about 3 - 3.5 hours away from KSU. With people speculating about conferences wanting to get their Olympic sports in a geographically compact conference, this could work.

Conference championships can rotate between sites in Atlanta, Chattanooga and Huntsville in various sports. Plus, JSU and KSU would probably be shoe-ins for the FCS playoffs with Alabama State being a rather interesting team.

[The Cats]

You don't know a lot about WCU or you would not have it on your list. I don't know if Chattanooga would consider a move, but I doubt that as well, if it were to FBS they might consider, but a lateral move, I doubt as well.

[Lion1983]

My speculative UAC list of targets:

1. UNA
2. KSU
3. UTC
4. Tenn Tech
5. WCU
6. Nichols State
7. SELA
8. Ala A&M
9. Tennessee State
10. Alabama State
11. FAMU

Ideally, if UNA and KSU could pull in JSU, Ala A&M, Ala State and WCU, that could be a pretty compact conference. WCU is only about 3 - 3.5 hours away from KSU. With people speculating about conferences wanting to get their Olympic sports in a geographically compact conference, this could work.

Conference championships can rotate between sites in Atlanta, Chattanooga and Huntsville in various sports. Plus, JSU and KSU would probably be shoe-ins for the FCS playoffs with Alabama State being a rather interesting team.

I would think, (this is just speculative if course) that if Western Carolina was on the list, the Louisiana schools would not be. And vice versa. That would take away the compact nature the conference seems to want.

But if Western Carolina is on the list, I like it...

Do you really think SWAC schools would be interested in leaving the SWAC, A&M and ASU? I figure if one left so would the other, but do they not have everything they want in the SWAC? Or do they want in the playoffs as well?

As far as conference championship games, I would rather pick a relatively central location to the conference with a tight geographic footprint and play it it one place.

[PaladinFan]

I would think, (this is just speculative if course) that if Western Carolina was on the list, the Louisiana schools would not be. And vice versa. That would take away the compact nature the conference seems to want.

But if Western Carolina is on the list, I like it...

Do you really think SWAC schools would be interested in leaving the SWAC, A&M and ASU? I figure if one left so would the other, but do they not have everything they want in the SWAC? Or do they want in the playoffs as well?

As far as conference championship games, I would rather pick a relatively central location to the conference with a tight geographic footprint and play it it one place.

I see no benefit to Western Carolina or UTC.

They would leave a well-established conference for a startup and vastly increase their travel costs to play programs with which they have no historic affiliation.

[mvfcfan]

I see no benefit to Western Carolina or UTC.

They would leave a well-established conference for a startup and vastly increase their travel costs to play programs with which they have no historic affiliation.

I agree 100% with this. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but the only OVC school the ASUN might pull away is JSU. No one from Tennessee is joining this nonsense.

Missouri State is the one that really had me laughing. You really think they would give up MVC basketball to play Kennesaw State and North Alabama?

[Lion1983]

I agree 100% with this. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but the only OVC school the ASUN might pull away is JSU. No one from Tennessee is joining this nonsense.

Missouri State is the one that really had me laughing. You really think they would give up MVC basketball to play Kennesaw State and North Alabama?

Nobody said Missouri State, or anyone else would happen or want to. Just naming the schools that, at least semi fit the boundaries set by the announcement of this thing. Missouri State would be in the semi category on the extreme outside of the boundary.

- - - Updated - - -


Nobody said Missouri State, or anyone else would happen or want to. Just naming the schools that, at least semi fit the boundaries set by the announcement of this thing. Missouri State would be in the semi category on the extreme outside of the boundary.

I did say they would be in my FANTASY conference, but by no means said they would be interested.

[citdog]

What the fans of the recent moveup lack is historical knowledge. The best thing that has ever happened to WCU , Chatty, App, GaSo, and Marshall is being mentioned in the same breath as the SoCon stalwarts. Their confederating with us has done more to enhance their reputations than they could have hoped for. It is without a doubt the most significant thing that has happened in their collective existence.

[Sir William]

What the fans of the recent moveup lack is historical knowledge. The best thing that has ever happened to WCU , Chatty, App, GaSo, and Marshall is being mentioned in the same breath as the SoCon stalwarts. Their confederating with us has done more to enhance their reputations than they could have hoped for. It is without a doubt the most significant thing that has happened in their collective existence.

This ^.

[Lion1983]

Yeah, well, the SoCon dont hold as much weight as it did in the past... maybe one day I guess.

[citdog]

Yeah, well, the SoCon dont hold as much weight as it did in the past... maybe one day I guess.

Yet North Alabama would give it's eye teeth to be invited to join.

[Lion1983]

Yet North Alabama would give it's eye teeth to be invited to join.

Maybe, but it wouldn't be because of most the "stalwarts" and their "collective existence"....

[citdog]

Maybe, but it wouldn't be because of most the "stalwarts" and their "collective existence"....

xdrunkyx

[Sader87]

SoCon is no PL xdrunkyx

[citdog]

SoCon is no PL xdrunkyx

"Coulda been in da Big East."