Universities of North & South Dakota

[dakotadan]

UND submits formal reclassification application to NCAA, 2007-08 will be UND’s exploratory year (http://fightingsioux.xosn.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=919090)

UND has officially taken it's first step towards moving all of its athletic programs to DI. Last week our president submitted the reclassification application and the $15,000 application fee. Currently UND has DI men's and women's hockey.

I would assume that we will hear the same news out of the University of South Dakota by the end of the week.

[GoAgs72]

Does the NCAA really incur $15,000 in costs? Does the GWFC also have a fee?

[IowaBisonToo]

VERY newsworthy.xrolleyesx xcoffeex

[roadwarrior]

I dont think the Great West is in too good of a position to be charging entrance fees.

[MplsBison]

Not even Montana/Montana St have the hate that NDSU fans have for UND fans.

It's so old.

Please get over yourselves.

[NDSUFREAK]

^^^Don't worry......they know.

[PantherRob82]

I dont think the Great West is in too good of a position to be charging entrance fees.

agreed

[JBB]

I think they are. Its no hurt to the GWFC to not have them. the new guys will still need games and will still be on the wrong end of home home deals for the next couple of years, no matter if they are in the GWFC or not. Without commitment the league has no future.

There is no hate between NDSU and Und. There is no common conference affiliation and scheduled games either. Lets keep it that way. I sure hope the BSC steps up and takes them. It will save NDSU at least one no vote some time in the next several years.

They have been claiming they are Division 1 since NDSU made the move. How in world is this news. They have been bragging about how hockey made them the only true D1 university in North Dakota? Whats the application about then? xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

Well, at least we know that every post about UND will end up on the smack board.... which is where I'm headed now to find that 'most annoying fans of FCS' thread. xeyebrowx xcoolx C'mon Bison fans, you were pretty darn welcome here from day one and have been a great addition... don't go ruin it. xtwocentsx

[NDSUFREAK]

Well, at least we know that every post about UND will end up on the smack board.... which is where I'm headed now to find that 'most annoying fans of FCS' thread. xeyebrowx xcoolx C'mon Bison fans, you were pretty darn welcome here from day one and have been a great addition... don't go ruin it. xtwocentsx

This warning has gone on for months now. Here is another one......nothing will stop it and it will be vicious for at least the first couple of months.xreadx I wish I could say otherwise but a storm is brewing xsmhx WARNING WARNING, DANGER WILL ROBISON, DANGER

[89Hen]

This warning has gone on for months now. Here is another one......nothing will stop it and it will be vicious for at least the first couple of months.xreadx I wish I could say otherwise but a storm is brewing xsmhx WARNING WARNING, DANGER WILL ROBISON, DANGER
xsmhx Just because you give a warning doesn't make it right. Montana/MSU, Lehigh/Lafayette, GSU/FU/ASU... we have plenty of fans of teams that hate each other on the field, but keep the smack to the smack board 99% of the time. It's like 1% with you NDSU fans. Had the first post been, UND has taken the first official step to moving to DI so they can kick the Bison's arses.... that'd be a different story. As a long time poster at AGS, I would ask all fans to at least TRY to keep the smack to the smack board and not jump on new people trying to post news. I for one can't wait for UND and USD to join I-AA. IMO it's a great thing when a large state school wants to come to our ranks.

[IowaBisonToo]

Hen - I think what Bison fans are getting at is they're sick and tired of the BS UND pulls consistently. For literally years, they've tried to say NDSU won't make it in the DI ranks. It's no big deal NDSU is going DI - we're (UND) already there (because of hockey). NDSU shouldn't go DI because it will put a strain on the taxpayers of ND. The list could go on and on and on. So as a Bison fan, I can see when there are those that have a sore spot when they here about EVERYTHING UND is doing during the transition and how it's the right thing to do because UND says so. GMAFB!xrolleyesx Should this be kept to the smack section? Sure - if the tone can't be reigned in. But I can also understand when Bison fans get their digs in. Might be exciting for the UND fans that the school is putting a check in the mail but for those of us that have been crapped on for the past few years by the Truck fans, it's about as exciting as their AD doing exactly that - taking a dump.

[JBB]

If he is complaining that I expressed my wish that we arent in a conference together or that I explained we dont schedule any games, or even that there is no hate, he leaves me a little bewildered.

There are plenty of teams that dont schedule NDSU and plenty of conferences that didnt want us in. Heres to the BSC taking them.

But whats up with the $15,000? Heres what the manual says:


3.6.3.2 Application. An institution desiring to become a provisional member of this Association shall submit an applicationavailable from the national office not later than June 1 prior to the academic year that the institution begins its one-year exploratory period in the provisional mem- bership process. A fee in the amount of $25,000 shall accompany the application. If the applicant fails to qualify for active membership, the fee shall be refunded, less any expenditure for educational costs related to the membership process. In addition, a check in the appropriate amount for annual dues (see the current annual dues for active members per Constitution 3.7.3) also shall accompany the application. Should the applicant fail to qualify academically or fail election, the dues paid shall be refunded. (Adopted: 1/11/94 effective 9/2/94; Revised: 4/22/98, 4/25/02 effective 8/1/02, 4/24/03 effective 8/1/03, 3/10/04, 4/28/05, 10/27/05)

[DaveK]

Hen - I think what Bison fans are getting at is they're sick and tired of the BS UND pulls consistently. For literally years, they've tried to say NDSU won't make it in the DI ranks. It's no big deal NDSU is going DI - we're (UND) already there (because of hockey). NDSU shouldn't go DI because it will put a strain on the taxpayers of ND. The list could go on and on and on. So as a Bison fan, I can see when there are those that have a sore spot when they here about EVERYTHING UND is doing during the transition and how it's the right thing to do because UND says so. GMAFB!xrolleyesx Should this be kept to the smack section? Sure - if the tone can't be reigned in. But I can also understand when Bison fans get their digs in. Might be exciting for the UND fans that the school is putting a check in the mail but for those of us that have been crapped on for the past few years by the Truck fans, it's about as exciting as their AD doing exactly that - taking a dump.

That works both ways. As UND fans, we tend to get sick and tired of all the BS that NDSU pulls constantly. The perceived superiority that they think they have over us is nauseating to put it mildly, especially considering that we beat them 10 of the last 13 times we played them, including the last three in a row and five of the last six.

They used to think they were better than us (and rightfully so) because they beat us 12 years in a row from 1981-1992. Then from 1993-2003 they found the shoe on the other foot and found it a bitter pill to swallow. Now they think that because they went I-AA four years before we did, that somehow makes them better.

Based on that (flawed) logic, I guess Jacksonville State would be considered better than NDSU because they made the move from D2 to I-AA a full decade before the Bison did. But I seriously doubt that anybody in their right mind would say Jacksonville State is better than NDSU.

[89Hen]

UND submits formal reclassification application to NCAA, 2007-08 will be UND’s exploratory year (http://fightingsioux.xosn.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=919090)

UND has officially taken it's first step towards moving all of its athletic programs to DI. Last week our president submitted the reclassification application and the $15,000 application fee. Currently UND has DI men's and women's hockey.

I would assume that we will hear the same news out of the University of South Dakota by the end of the week.


Hen - I think what Bison fans are getting at is they're sick and tired of the BS UND pulls consistently.
I'm an outsider to this whole thing so I don't know all the history, but as an outsider, when I see a post as plain and simple as the one that started this thread and then see NDSU fans reaction... you can probably guess who I think is in the wrong in this case. Have all the animosity you want, but at least keep what appears to 95% of the fans here as an innocent thread starter free from an all out attack. Again, just my xtwocentsx as somebody who's been posting with this group since the 1990's.

[PMB4Life]

I say let the Bison and Sioux fight amongst themselves. It will amuse me. mwahahahaha....

here, I'll even stoke the fires...

UND's Division I hockey status is an outlier because it has a completely different organizational structure. And NDSU plays in the Mid-Con -er- Summit League, which is a lot like DII.

GO!

(Please note: I respect both institutions... I"m just a big fan of rivalries)

[IowaBisonToo]

I knew DaveK would come out of the woodwork on this one. You go Dave!xdeadhorsex xlmaox

[IowaBisonToo]

I say let the Bison and Sioux fight amongst themselves. It will amuse me. mwahahahaha....

here, I'll even stoke the fires...

UND's Division I hockey status is an outlier because it has a completely different organizational structure. And NDSU plays in the Mid-Con -er- Summit League, which is a lot like DII.

GO!

(Please note: I respect both institutions... I"m just a big fan of rivalries)
PMB - we'll see how "DII-like" you think we are when we start Gateway competition. xlolx xlolx xlolx xsmiley_wix

[slostang]

I'm an outsider to this whole thing so I don't know all the history, but as an outsider, when I see a post as plain and simple as the one that started this thread and then see NDSU fans reaction... you can probably guess who I think is in the wrong in this case. Have all the animosity you want, but at least keep what appears to 95% of the fans here as an innocent thread starter free from an all out attack. Again, just my xtwocentsx as somebody who's been posting with this group since the 1990's.

Well said.

[bisonguy]

Welcome to the wonderful world of DI UxD's!!

[Go Bison]

Well, at least we know that every post about UND will end up on the smack board.... which is where I'm headed now to find that 'most annoying fans of FCS' thread. xeyebrowx xcoolx C'mon Bison fans, you were pretty darn welcome here from day one and have been a great addition... don't go ruin it. xtwocentsx

I agree with 89Hen on this one. It does get very old and some of the people posting act like little children. Usually, it is the same posters bringing up a bunch of crap about the other team not only on this board but on others as well.

Good luck to both UND and USD on their transition.

[No_Skill]

I hereby pledge to do my best to keep my und smack to the smack board.

This won't be easy. xsmhx :p xsmhx

[NDSUFREAK]

That works both ways. As UND fans, we tend to get sick and tired of all the BS that NDSU pulls constantly. The perceived superiority that they think they have over us is nauseating to put it mildly, especially considering that we beat them 10 of the last 13 times we played them, including the last three in a row and five of the last six.

They used to think they were better than us (and rightfully so) because they beat us 12 years in a row from 1981-1992. Then from 1993-2003 they found the shoe on the other foot and found it a bitter pill to swallow. Now they think that because they went I-AA four years before we did, that somehow makes them better.

Based on that (flawed) logic, I guess Jacksonville State would be considered better than NDSU because they made the move from D2 to I-AA a full decade before the Bison did. But I seriously doubt that anybody in their right mind would say Jacksonville State is better than NDSU.


UND Fighting Sioux : The best football team in the state of North Dakota


xsplatx xsplatx *keep it for the smack thread FREAK* *keep it for the smack thread FREAK* xsplatx xsplatx

[PantherRob82]

I hereby pledge to do my best to keep my und smack to the smack board.

This won't be easy. xsmhx :p xsmhx

xlolx xlolx xlolx

It'll be hard for all of us.

[TheBisonator]

xsplatx xsplatx *keep it for the smack thread FREAK* *keep it for the smack thread FREAK* xsplatx xsplatx

Hey NDSUFREAK, read my sig line.:D :D :D

[NDSUFREAK]

Hey NDSUFREAK, read my sig line.:D :D :D

Awwww....relaxing.xrotatehx xrotatehx ;)

[The Sheriff]

Awwww....relaxing.xrotatehx xrotatehx ;)

Read my sig line... Hence no trash talking here.

[NDSUFREAK]

Read my sig line... Hence no trash talking here.

The Skinny?xconfusedx xconfusedx









;)

[Gil Dobie]

Good Luck with the move, Coyotes and Sioux.

[TheBisonator]

But in all seriousness, good luck to UND and USD in the GWFC. You, like the XDSU's, should've made the move 25 years ago.:)

[BearsCountry]

But in all seriousness, good luck to UND and USD in the GWFC. You, like the XDSU's, should've made the move 25 years ago.:)

Yeah you guys should have made the move when us and UNI did.

[BisonBacker]

Making the move when we did was long overdue but it's all about leadership. Currently NDSU has the best leadership they have probably ever had. It's also the reason we didn't make the move when we should have 25 years ago, we didn't have the leadership with the vision to do it. We made the move with our current leaders and am dam glad we made it when we did and we are going to reap the benefits of it starting this year for most sports. Football will starting in 08, don't get me wrong either I have tremendous respect for our conference mates in the GWFC but with the Gateway we have stability and a conference with the Auto Bid. We can thank our leadership for getting us where we are. I just wish we would of had these people 25 years ago.

[CopperCat]

Making the move when we did was long overdue but it's all about leadership. Currently NDSU has the best leadership they have probably ever had. It's also the reason we didn't make the move when we should have 25 years ago, we didn't have the leadership with the vision to do it. We made the move with our current leaders and am dam glad we made it when we did and we are going to reap the benefits of it starting this year for most sports. Football will starting in 08, don't get me wrong either I have tremendous respect for our conference mates in the GWFC but with the Gateway we have stability and a conference with the Auto Bid. We can thank our leadership for getting us where we are. I just wish we would of had these people 25 years ago.

Leadership is something people take for granted. I fully realized this when Kramer got fired, because it makes you see what happens behind the scences when you really aren't thinking about it. What happens on the field is certainly a motivator for bigger and better things to happen. But without a clear sense of direction from leadership positions, what happens on the field will eventually disappear and a vicious cycle of boom and bust will ensue (IMHO). If you've got people like NDSU does, then you have a future to look forward to, and alot to play for in the present. You guys are lucky, and I think you know that. Good luck to you all in the Gateway, I WILL be paying close attention to what happens from here on out!xthumbsupx

[DaveK]

But in all seriousness, good luck to UND and USD in the GWFC. You, like the XDSU's, should've made the move 25 years ago.:)

Although I'm very much looking forward to I-AA, I'm glad we got to experience the past 15 years of D2 competition. It was a great ride while it lasted, but unfortunately almost all of the good D2 programs are now going I-AA or will be in the near future. I think we're making the move at the perfect time.

[BisonBabe]

I wish UND & USD the best of luck as they prepare to enter FCS football. I am sure at some point in the distant future we will resume playing each other. At that time my hope would be that the hostility would be over. Rivalry is one thing but the venom on both sides of the NDSU/UND and SDSU/USD battle lines is getting old even for this Bison fan.

[NDSUFREAK]

Although I'm very much looking forward to FCS, I'm glad we got to experience the past 15 years of D2 competition. It was a great ride while it lasted, but unfortunately almost all of the good D2 programs are now going FCS or will be in the near future. I think we're making the move at the perfect time.

Fixed it for you Dave. I know you call it I-AA but if you are going to post on this board then you have to use FCS. There isn't a choice....especially when RALPH comes back.

[bisonguy]

Making the move when we did was long overdue but it's all about leadership. Currently NDSU has the best leadership they have probably ever had. It's also the reason we didn't make the move when we should have 25 years ago, we didn't have the leadership with the vision to do it. We made the move with our current leaders and am dam glad we made it when we did and we are going to reap the benefits of it starting this year for most sports. Football will starting in 08, don't get me wrong either I have tremendous respect for our conference mates in the GWFC but with the Gateway we have stability and a conference with the Auto Bid. We can thank our leadership for getting us where we are. I just wish we would of had these people 25 years ago.



Huh???


NDSU and UND both applied for membership in the Big Sky over 25 years ago (1979-1981??- Gil, a little help here!!!), but the Big Sky did not accept either school. It's all in the "Bison Football, Three Decades of Excellence" book by Ed Kolpack.

[SDFS]

Simply stated UND and USD should have moved when SDSU and NDSU moved. As an alum of UND, I was very disappointed that they choose not to move. I made my voice heard via e-mail and I feel many others did as well. The UxD leadership put themselves in a weak position of I told you so, if xDSU failed versus helping all succeed. I am happy that the xDSUs have been successful. Because, it has forced the UxDs leadership to move forward and UxDs leadership deserves the beating they have taken on the numerous message boards.

But, please remember that many UxD fans were just as frustrated as the xDSUs fans at the leadership of those schools. So, we have to take our medicine a bit and move forward. I am looking forward to the day when UxD and are xDSUs are playing each other again... I think many of you will remember great games with bragging rights, conference titles, and yes even national championships at stake. I hope that returns.

[The Sheriff]

The Skinny?xconfusedx xconfusedx









;)

Ha Ha I know, I thought about that after I posted it. OK, read the green line... :)

[JBB]

That works both ways. As UND fans, we tend to get sick and tired of all the BS that NDSU pulls constantly. The perceived superiority that they think they have over us is nauseating to put it mildly, especially considering that we beat them 10 of the last 13 times we played them, including the last three in a row and five of the last six.

They used to think they were better than us (and rightfully so) because they beat us 12 years in a row from 1981-1992. Then from 1993-2003 they found the shoe on the other foot and found it a bitter pill to swallow. Now they think that because they went I-AA four years before we did, that somehow makes them better.

Based on that (flawed) logic, I guess Jacksonville State would be considered better than NDSU because they made the move from D2 to I-AA a full decade before the Bison did. But I seriously doubt that anybody in their right mind would say Jacksonville State is better than NDSU.

The series is over. With that in mind here's what Im taking from the old rivalry:

Score is IMPORTANT. Since 1964 NDSU has outscored the university in football 948-696. I think anyone would agree with me that is a key stat in rivalry judgment.

In the early days of the series NDSU was down and out. Of course the first big sports on the NDSU campus were basketball, hockey and boxing. In the early days NDSU wasnt identified with football at all. They were actually a hockey school dominating the series with the university. The university may have never beaten NDSU in those days.

Way back then, pre 1930, the little known football series was clearly in favor of the university, an edge in wins and losses that still keeps them in the forefront today despite State's modern era domination.

During the 30s and 40s it was a hard fought series with NDSU, ”The Old AC”, holding its own. Since 1940 the series is tied, counting playoff games NDSU is probably ahead by one or 2.

The BISON football program struggled into the early 60s. By 1964 things had turned around. In the 1960s the series went 6-4. NDSU closed it out with a bang 64-14. I was at that game. It was at Dacotah Field. It was a fabulous afternoon and a glimpse of the future. Lots of one sided victories for the NDSU BISON.

In the 1970s it was 5-5.

In the 1980s it was 9-1 NDSU. Complete domination except for the 20-38 loss in 1980.

In the 1990s the university started to pull even and went 7-5 (2 playoff games).

Since 2000 and the series close in 2003, the university finished 3-1.

Naturally, during that period, Head Coach Bob Babich made himself famous with the second half on-side kick that gave the BISON the win. Roger Thomas also saw his surprising coach of the year honors tarnished by a 41-14 playoff route at the Hands of Rocky Hager and company.

It was a good series, but like Fargo College ran its course.

Clearly in Modern times NDSU has risen to field the best overall program. Since 1940 the series is even but over the years things have changed. The programs cant be compared now. The BISON have far more scholarships and are, with 4 professional contracts earned by last seasons team so far, fielding the superior talent.

Depending upon the time period or standard of measure you choose to focus on either fan can make a case in the series. Hats off to the teams. Good games.

[MplsBison]

Looking forward to the next generation of NDSU-UND football games.


Coming soon to a football stadium near you. 2009!

[NDSUFREAK]

Finding a schedule that will help us get into the playoffs first. THEN und.

[swaghook]

Looking forward to the next generation of NDSU-UND football games.


Coming soon to a football stadium near you. 2009!not likely that soon. Maybe 2010 or later.

[JBB]

I dont think the Great West is in too good of a position to be charging entrance fees.

Why not? The conference is going to require commitment if its going to survive. The Universities of North & South Dakota have to commit themselves to the conference in some way or it amounts to nothing.

[DaveK]

Fixed it for you Dave. I know you call it I-AA but if you are going to post on this board then you have to use FCS. There isn't a choice....especially when RALPH comes back.

Please show me where in the FAQ does it state that in order to post here you're not allowed to call it I-AA? That's crazy. That would be like a John Mellencamp message board forbidding the name Cougar to be used.

[PantherRob82]

Please show me where in the FAQ does it state that in order to post here you're not allowed to call it I-AA? That's crazy. That would be like a John Mellencamp message board forbidding the name Cougar to be used.

wow, what an off the wall comparison. :D

[NDSUFREAK]

Please show me where in the FAQ does it state that in order to post here you're not allowed to call it I-AA? That's crazy. That would be like a John Mellencamp message board forbidding the name Cougar to be used.

Well, if you don't want enemies on this board beside the BISON posters than you should use FCS.

[DaveK]

Well, if you don't want enemies on this board beside the BISON posters than you should use FCS.

What's wrong with the term I-AA? I don't see it as anything to be ashamed of.

[biobengal]

What's wrong with the term I-AA? I don't see it as anything to be ashamed of.

Did someone say Cal Davis??? :D

[PantherRob82]

Well, if you don't want enemies on this board beside the BISON posters than you should use FCS.

xlolx xlolx xlolx so true

[PantherRob82]

What's wrong with the term I-AA? I don't see it as anything to be ashamed of.

I think people are trying to promote the new terminology. xthumbsupx

[DaveK]

The series is over. With that in mind here's what Im taking from the old rivalry:

Score is IMPORTANT. Since 1964 NDSU has outscored the university in football 948-696. I think anyone would agree with me that is a key stat in rivalry judgment.

In the early days of the series NDSU was down and out. Of course the first big sports on the NDSU campus were basketball, hockey and boxing. In the early days NDSU wasnt identified with football at all. They were actually a hockey school dominating the series with the university. The university may have never beaten NDSU in those days.

Way back then, pre 1930, the little known football series was clearly in favor of the university, an edge in wins and losses that still keeps them in the forefront today despite State's modern era domination.

During the 30s and 40s it was a hard fought series with NDSU, ”The Old AC”, holding its own. Since 1940 the series is tied, counting playoff games NDSU is probably ahead by one or 2.

The BISON football program struggled into the early 60s. By 1964 things had turned around. In the 1960s the series went 6-4. NDSU closed it out with a bang 64-14. I was at that game. It was at Dacotah Field. It was a fabulous afternoon and a glimpse of the future. Lots of one sided victories for the NDSU BISON.

In the 1970s it was 5-5.

In the 1980s it was 9-1 NDSU. Complete domination except for the 20-38 loss in 1980.

In the 1990s the university started to pull even and went 7-5 (2 playoff games).

Since 2000 and the series close in 2003, the university finished 3-1.

Naturally, during that period, Head Coach Bob Babich made himself famous with the second half on-side kick that gave the BISON the win. Roger Thomas also saw his surprising coach of the year honors tarnished by a 41-14 playoff route at the Hands of Rocky Hager and company.

It was a good series, but like Fargo College ran its course.

Clearly in Modern times NDSU has risen to field the best overall program. Since 1940 the series is even but over the years things have changed. The programs cant be compared now. The BISON have far more scholarships and are, with 4 professional contracts earned by last seasons team so far, fielding the superior talent.

Depending upon the time period or standard of measure you choose to focus on either fan can make a case in the series. Hats off to the teams. Good games.

I agree with you that the series is over, but I disagree that the combined scores are any kind of way to measure the rivalry. I prefer to go strictly by wins and losses, because where I come from a win is a win and a loss is a loss regardless of the score. You could have a World Series in which one team wins three games by identical 10-0 scores and the other team wins four games by identical 3-2 scores. That team that got outscored 38-12 for the series would still be the better team because they won four games to three. With that thought in mind, here is my analysis of the once great but now dead rivalry...

Using 1964 as a starting point, since that is what you chose (1964 was the last year of a 12-year winning streak for the Sioux over the Bison), UND is 17-25 against NDSU.

That 12-game UND winning streak from 1953-1964 was followed by a 6-game NDSU winning streak from 1965-1970. After that streak came the most competitive time in the history of the rivalry... between 1971 and 1980 the Sioux won 6 and the Bison won 4.

That competive run was of course followed by the infamous 12-game NDSU winning streak from 1981-1992, which in turn was followed by UND's 10 wins in the final 13 games of the series from 1993-2003.

I think your comment that the teams can no longer even be compared is rather biased and unobjective to be perfectly blunt. Although NDSU has significantly improved their team over the past three seasons, I find it hard to believe that a team that was obviously superior to them as recently as 2003 is no longer even comparable.

To suggest that NDSU is superior based solely on the fact that NDSU now participates in I-AA football while UND is still in D2 (for now) leads to a slippery slope. Just because Duke is D1 and Appalachain State is I-AA, does that make Duke better than Appalachain? Just because Valparaiso is I-AA and Grand Valley State is D2, does that make Valparaiso better than Grand Valley? Of course not.

Based on UND's victory over Northern Iowa last season, I don't think any reasonably objective individual would make the argument that there's any team in I-AA that UND isn't at the very least comparable to.

What we do know about NDSU and UND is that they are both currently among the elite teams in all of small-college football. What we don't know is who is better. I suspect that if they were to play 10 games they would each win five, but that's purely speculation and nothing more at this point in time.

Yes, NDSU has improved since 2003 but UND hasn't exactly regressed during that time. The Bison may have closed the gap and perhaps become somewhat better, but you can't state that as fact without having seen them go up against each other head-to-head.

Let's just agree that UND dominated the last 13 games in the series and NDSU dominated the previous 12, and we'll have to wait to see what happens if and when it is renewed. Till then let's spare ourselves the talk of who's better and just admit that they're both very good.

[DaveK]

I think people are trying to promote the new terminology. xthumbsupx

I'm sorry, I just think it's lame. I prefer the old terminology. I don't think there's anything insulting or degrading about it, and I have a very difficult time understanding why a handful of people are so sensitive about it. I don't mean it as any kind of disrespect, it's just that I prefer the old way.

What's that old saying... tomato, tomatoe

[dbackjon]

I'm sorry, I just think it's lame. I prefer the old terminology. I don't think there's anything insulting or degrading about it, and I have a very difficult time understanding why a handful of people are so sensitive about it. I don't mean it as any kind of disrespect, it's just that I prefer the old way.

What's that old saying... tomato, tomatoe

Dave - friendly advice - since UND is not even at the FCS level, and since the official name IS FCS, please get in the habit of using it. Don't be stubborn on something like this. We are all calling it FCS - be a team player for once.

[MplsBison]

UND is better than NAU, which plays at the FCS level.

Just being honest.

[DaveK]

Dave - friendly advice - since UND is not even at the FCS level, and since the official name IS FCS, please get in the habit of using it. Don't be stubborn on something like this. We are all calling it FCS - be a team player for once.

First off I fail to understand what difference it makes that UND is not at that level yet, and secondly I fail to understand why some people are so opposed to the use of the title that this division of football made a name for itself under. I don't feel comfortable with the term FCS. It just feels wrong.

I'm sorry, but I do not adapt well to change. It isn't just with this particular issue, it's with almost anything. For example, if UND were to ever change their nickname I would continue to refer to them as the Sioux because that's what I grew up with.

There's no hidden agenda. It's merely personal preference, nothing more and nothing less. My intent is not to offend anybody, it is merely to use the terminology that I feel comfortable with. Same goes for my use of the term Cal-Davis that I got called out for previously.

You know what they say, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I am what I am, a nice guy who is set in his ways and doesn't adapt well to change for the sake of change. I sincerely hope that nobody gets upset with me over such petty and trivial matters.

[Fresno St. Alum]

oh god not Cal-Davis, is that why you still sport that old out of date UND helmet?

[Fresno St. Alum]

Pantherrob sports his old out of date helmet because of me showing him the helmet project website.xoopsx xchinscratchx

[DaveK]

oh god not Cal-Davis, is that why you still sport that old out of date UND helmet?

I sport that old-school Sioux helmet because that's the one they wore when I first started following them. I've learned in life to cherish the past.

[Fresno St. Alum]

UC Davis's & Fresno St.'s old helmets were bland, their new ones look much better

[DaveK]

UC Davis's & Fresno St.'s old helmets were bland, their new ones look much better

I totally agree with you on the Aggies and Bulldogs helmets. I don't really have a preference between the old and new Sioux helmets since they both use the same interlocking ND logo that I love so much, I just chose the old one for my avatar because it reminds me of my childhood.

Hey... off topic, but you don't happen to have any recordings of Trent Dilfer-era Fresno State games do you?

[PantherRob82]

Pantherrob sports his old out of date helmet because of me showing him the helmet project website.xoopsx xchinscratchx

naw, i've known about it for a few years. Just never thought of changing my avatar. this was the helmet I grew up with. I like retro stuff and wish we would wear retro jerseys for homecoming.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Pantherrob, the old UNI helmet reminds me of the Jacksonville Bulls USFL helmet with the wrap around look.

DaveK, I don't record games, I have the paper from when Fresno St. beat USC in the Freedom Bowl 24-7

So when will we find out if UND gets to keep its name?

[Fresno St. Alum]

http://www.nationalchamps.net/Helmet_Project/USFL_Bulls.gif

[DaveK]

Pantherrob, the old UNI helmet reminds me of the Jacksonville Bulls USFL helmet with the wrap around look.

DaveK, I don't record games, I have the paper from when Fresno St. beat USC in the Freedom Bowl 24-7

So when will we find out if UND gets to keep its name?

I have a copy of that Freedom Bowl game in my collection, and also a couple of regular season games from either 1992 or 1993. One of them was against San Diego State, and I can't remember off the top of my head what the other one was.

The UND vs. NCAA court case is set to go to trial in December. The trial will determine not if UND can keep their nickname, but rather if they can host tournament games with the name intact. In theory, even if they lose in court (which I don't think will happen) they could still keep the name if they thought it was worth not being able to host playoff games.

[The Sheriff]

I have a copy of that Freedom Bowl game in my collection, and also a couple of regular season games from either 1992 or 1993. One of them was against San Diego State, and I can't remember off the top of my head what the other one was.

The UND vs. NCAA court case is set to go to trial in December. The trial will determine not if UND can keep their nickname, but rather if they can host tournament games with the name intact. In theory, even if they lose in court (which I don't think will happen) they could still keep the name if they thought it was worth not being able to host playoff games.

If it turns out that someday we will have to change our nickname, I fear that we will likely be posting in the "I hate my school's mascot" thread on the FCS Smack Board... xsmhx

[dbackjon]

UND is better than NAU, which plays at the FCS level.

Just being honest.

And everyone on the board thinks you're an idiot.


Just being honest.

[NDSUFREAK]

First off I fail to understand what difference it makes that UND is not at that level yet, and secondly I fail to understand why some people are so opposed to the use of the title that this division of football made a name for itself under. I don't feel comfortable with the term FCS. It just feels wrong.

I'm sorry, but I do not adapt well to change. It isn't just with this particular issue, it's with almost anything. For example, if UND were to ever change their nickname I would continue to refer to them as the Sioux because that's what I grew up with.

There's no hidden agenda. It's merely personal preference, nothing more and nothing less. My intent is not to offend anybody, it is merely to use the terminology that I feel comfortable with. Same goes for my use of the term Cal-Davis that I got called out for previously.

You know what they say, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I am what I am, a nice guy who is set in his ways and doesn't adapt well to change for the sake of change. I sincerely hope that nobody gets upset with me over such petty and trivial matters.

If you ever do get too uncomfortable the safety word is "SIMMA DOWN":p :p :p

[NDSUFREAK]

And everyone on the board thinks you're an idiot.


Just being honest.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[FargoBison]

I don't understand how somebody could be uncomfortable with FCS and FBS. One group of DI schools plays in a subdivision that has an NCAA sponsored title and the other group of football playing DI schools plays in bowl games. Not to hard to understand, all the NCAA did when they changed the names is state the truth.

[JBB]

I agree with you that the series is over, ....

....Let's just agree that UND dominated the last 13 games in the series and NDSU dominated the previous 12, and we'll have to wait to see what happens if and when it is renewed. Till then let's spare ourselves the talk of who's better and just admit that they're both very good.

Whats to compare the Mighty Land Grant programs now with either the Universities of North & South Dakota?

Average attendance/game?

Scholarships?

Coaching staffs?

Strength of schedule?

Schedule interest?

Conference strength?

Take your pick, its FCS not Di-AA. Thats the real world.

Your program has a lot more on its platter than trying to get on the NDSU schedule.

Get out the big checks for the guarantees you can find and get the trailors out for the travel.

Fund and fill your limit of scholarships with quality players.

Build up the coaching staff and wait for a break. Thats what we did.

Once you have that going for yourselves, and of course as Dr. Taylor has mentioned several times, your players are academically eligible, you might be able to get on the schedule. I think NDSU is out at least 5 yrs maybe more.

Over on the Und sports board they talk about how NDSU wants to be the next Boise State. Maybe so, but its obvious Und is trying hard to be the next NDSU. I join the rest in wishing both programs good luck. xcoffeex

[Bison06]

Dave, I have no doubt that you are aware of this, but I will remind you anyway. The reason the name was changed from I-AA to FCS is because I-A (old terminology) schools were using that title against I-AA schools in sports other than football. They would go into a basketball recruit's house and say that this school or that school is I-AA in an attempt to put themselves above the I-AA school. As we all know, there are no subdivisions in division I basketball. With things like that going on you would think that any school about to become D-I in basketball would appreciate that the NCAA has taken that "advantage" away from the big time schools.

[DaveK]

Dave, I have no doubt that you are aware of this, but I will remind you anyway. The reason the name was changed from I-AA to FCS is because I-A (old terminology) schools were using that title against I-AA schools in sports other than football. They would go into a basketball recruit's house and say that this school or that school is I-AA in an attempt to put themselves above the I-AA school. As we all know, there are no subdivisions in division I basketball. With things like that going on you would think that any school about to become D-I in basketball would appreciate that the NCAA has taken that "advantage" away from the big time schools.

I understand that, and I am part of the group who thinks the Division I-A schools are very much in a higher class of prestige than the Division I-AA schools. Now, keep in mind that my favorite school is a D2 soon to be I-AA school. It's not like I'm biased because my favorite is a I-A. I'm just being objective and giving the I-A's the respect they deserve. I think the FCS/FBC labels are a slap in the face of the I-A's, which is why I refuse to use that terminology. Sure, the I-A's and I-AA's compete at the same level in every sport other than football. I get that. But let's not brush under the rug the fact that football is bigger than all other NCAA sports combined. I'd rather just be content with what we are and secure with our proper place in the pecking order rather than try to blur that line in an attempt to trick somebody into thinking we're just as relevant as Notre Dame and USC when we obviously are not.

[dbackjon]

I understand that, and I am part of the group who thinks the Division I-A schools are very much in a higher class of prestige than the Division I-AA schools. Now, keep in mind that my favorite school is a D2 soon to be I-AA school. It's not like I'm biased because my favorite is a I-A. I'm just being objective and giving the I-A's the respect they deserve. I think the FCS/FBC labels are a slap in the face of the I-A's, which is why I refuse to use that terminology. Sure, the I-A's and I-AA's compete at the same level in every sport other than football. I get that. But let's not brush under the rug the fact that football is bigger than all other NCAA sports combined. I'd rather just be content with what we are and secure with our proper place in the pecking order rather than try to blur that line in an attempt to trick somebody into thinking we're just as relevant as Notre Dame and USC when we obviously are not.

No offense, but that is a load of crap. The FBS/FCS are accurate - one group plays for bowls, the other for championships. There is nothing superior about FBS schools - especially when you look at such "prestige" schools as Troy, Middle Tn, Idaho, FAU, FIU. Nothing magical about offering 83 scholarships, and nothing superior about that.

If you feel so strongly that FBS is superior, I invite you to find a FBS board to spend your time on.

Otherwise, your attitude is really not welcome here.

[DaveK]

No offense, but that is a load of crap. The FBS/FCS are accurate - one group plays for bowls, the other for championships. There is nothing superior about FBS schools - especially when you look at such "prestige" schools as Troy, Middle Tn, Idaho, FAU, FIU. Nothing magical about offering 83 scholarships, and nothing superior about that.

If you feel so strongly that FBS is superior, I invite you to find a FBS board to spend your time on.

Otherwise, your attitude is really not welcome here.

I don't think any of our top 20 can compete with any of their top 20. I like small-college football, but I'm also a realist. I don't go around trying to convince myself and others that we're as good as the top teams in I-A. No doubt we can hold our own against the bottom feeders of I-A, but not the big-time football powers. Sorry if that opinion upsets you, but like I said I'm merely being realistic. My so-called attitude is respect for I-A, not disrespect for I-AA.

[NDSUFREAK]

I tried to warn you, dave.

[dbackjon]

I don't think any of our top 20 can compete with any of their top 20. I like small-college football, but I'm also a realist. I don't go around trying to convince myself and others that we're as good as the top teams in I-A. No doubt we can hold our own against the bottom feeders of I-A, but not the big-time football powers. Sorry if that opinion upsets you, but like I said I'm merely being realistic. My so-called attitude is respect for I-A, not disrespect for I-AA.

Do I think App State can beat top 20 FBS teams? Nope. But that doesn't mean that calling them what they are - FBS, is disrespectful. They have chosen to participate in the bowl system. Why is that disrepectful to call them by what they have CHOSEN to participate in? FCS teams are the ones that actually PLAY for the only Division I, NCAA recognized championship. You are being disrepectful of that by not recognizing that.

[DaveK]

Do I think App State can beat top 20 FBS teams? Nope. But that doesn't mean that calling them what they are - FBS, is disrespectful. They have chosen to participate in the bowl system. Why is that disrepectful to call them by what they have CHOSEN to participate in? FCS teams are the ones that actually PLAY for the only Division I, NCAA recognized championship. You are being disrepectful of that by not recognizing that.

I hate the bowl system and think that it would be much better if they had a playoff. Regardless of that, their top teams are way better than our top teams. There is no question in the mind of any objective individual that the BCS title game is THE national championship of Division I football. I-AA is what it is, the 2nd highest division of NCAA football. There isn't anything wrong with that. So there's one division higher, who cares? There are three divisions lower, so let's try to be more secure with our proper place in the pecking order.

[DaveK]

I tried to warn you, dave.

I never said I didn't believe you, but I'm not going to be a fake just to fit in. I'm going to be myself. If people like me for who I am, great. If not, I can live with that too. Call me what you want, but one thing I'm not is dishonest. I will tell you exactly what I think and I won't sugarcoat anything. Would you rather have me do that or lie to you?

[NDSUFREAK]

I never said I didn't believe you, but I'm not going to be a fake just to fit in. I'm going to be myself. If people like me for who I am, great. If not, I can live with that too. Call me what you want, but one thing I'm not is dishonest. I will tell you exactly what I think and I won't sugarcoat anything. Would you rather have me do that or lie to you?

ok, thats your choice then. and good luck with it.

[NDSUFREAK]

I hate the bowl system and think that it would be much better if they had a playoff. Regardless of that, their top teams are way better than our top teams. There is no question in the mind of any objective individual that the BCS title game is THE national championship of Division I football. I-AA is what it is, the 2nd highest division of NCAA football. There isn't anything wrong with that. So there's one division higher, who cares? There are three divisions lower, so let's try to be more secure with our proper place in the pecking order.

the thing with the bowl system is that, of course you should know this too, we really don't find a true national champion. who knows if USC could have beaten Florida. Maybe even Michigan could have beaten Florida but we don't know that since they play bowl games. FCS is the highest level playoff college football and the highest level of awarding a true National Champion.

[DaveK]

the thing with the bowl system is that, of course you should know this too, we really don't find a true national champion. who knows if USC could have beaten Florida. Maybe even Michigan could have beaten Florida but we don't know that since they play bowl games. FCS is the highest level playoff college football and the highest level of awarding a true National Champion.

Now that point I will agree with you on. I personally think that both USC and Michigan were better than Florida last year, but then again so was Ohio State. If Florida played Ohio State 10 times the Buckeyes would probably win that matchup 7 times if not 8 or 9. But since they only play it once and Florida happened to play a better game that night they ended up with the championship. They really were just lucky that UCLA beat USC, or else we would have had a USC/Ohio State national championship game. However you spin it, the system is a joke. I would like it a lot more if they had a playoff system in place like the ones used in the lower divisions.

[TheBisonator]

This thread is making me want to saw off my own head...

[GoAgs72]

We really need Grand Valley State in FCS so we can have BCON on here. Only former D2 people will understand this joke.

[bisonguy]

We really need Grand Valley State in FCS so we can have BCON on here. Only former D2 people will understand this joke.

BCON and MplsBison. Steel Cage. Two will enter, only one will leave. :D

[BisonBabe]

Well, if you don't want enemies on this board beside the BISON posters than you should use FCS.


Dave - friendly advice - since UND is not even at the FCS level, and since the official name IS FCS, please get in the habit of using it. Don't be stubborn on something like this. We are all calling it FCS - be a team player for once.


I don't understand how somebody could be uncomfortable with FCS and FBS. One group of DI schools plays in a subdivision that has an NCAA sponsored title and the other group of football playing DI schools plays in bowl games. Not to hard to understand, all the NCAA did when they changed the names is state the truth.


Dave, I have no doubt that you are aware of this, but I will remind you anyway. The reason the name was changed from I-AA to FCS is because I-A (old terminology) schools were using that title against I-AA schools in sports other than football. They would go into a basketball recruit's house and say that this school or that school is I-AA in an attempt to put themselves above the I-AA school. As we all know, there are no subdivisions in division I basketball. With things like that going on you would think that any school about to become D-I in basketball would appreciate that the NCAA has taken that "advantage" away from the big time schools.


No offense, but that is a load of crap. The FBS/FCS are accurate - one group plays for bowls, the other for championships. There is nothing superior about FBS schools - especially when you look at such "prestige" schools as Troy, Middle Tn, Idaho, FAU, FIU. Nothing magical about offering 83 scholarships, and nothing superior about that.

If you feel so strongly that FBS is superior, I invite you to find a FBS board to spend your time on.

Otherwise, your attitude is really not welcome here.

I am going to wade into the fray once again and suggest that DaveK as well as others listen to the advise of the posters I quoted. Get use to the fact that we on the board are FCS and your school is moving up to FCS as well. Show the respect to us that you wish us to show you.

xtwocentsx

[DaveK]

I am going to wade into the fray once again and suggest that DaveK as well as others listen to the advise of the posters I quoted. Get use to the fact that we on the board are FCS and your school is moving up to FCS as well. Show the respect to us that you wish us to show you.

xtwocentsx

Once again, I don't see any conceivable way the term I-AA could be perceived as disrespectful. I'm willing to listen to whatever anybody has to say, but unless somebody comes up with a convincing argument that makes me see the light I'm not going to change just for the sake of change.

[TheBisonator]

You are all gonna be freaked out when I say this.......

In a way, I can actually see where DaveK is coming from on the FCS name issue. The FCS moniker has never sat right with me. I personally call this subdivision both FCS and I-AA. When I talk with my friends about Bison football, I use both terms, but I feel more comfortable saying I-AA. However, I feel more comfortable typing FCS than I do typing I-AA.

But here's where I stray away from being on his side: If it is no longer proper to use the term I-AA on this board, and if Ralph suggests that you use the name FCS, then I suggest DaveK stops being a stubborn mule and JUST USE THAT NAME.

Like I said, I can understand the hassle in trying to adapt to the name change, but we all gotta live with it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And DaveK, off the record, get rid of that blatantly untrue sig line you have. At least I have mine like it is because my team PROVED IT.

[BisonBabe]

You are all gonna be freaked out when I say this.......

In a way, I can actually see where DaveK is coming from on the FCS name issue. The FCS moniker has never sat right with me. I personally call this subdivision both FCS and I-AA. When I talk with my friends about Bison football, I use both terms, but I feel more comfortable saying I-AA. However, I feel more comfortable typing FCS than I do typing I-AA.

But here's where I stray away from being on his side: If it is no longer proper to use the term I-AA on this board, and if Ralph suggests that you use the name FCS, then I suggest DaveK stops being a stubborn mule and JUST USE THAT NAME.
Like I said, I can understand the hassle in trying to adapt to the name change, but we all gotta live with it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And DaveK, off the record, get rid of that blatantly untrue sig line you have. At least I have mine like it is because my team PROVED IT.


Another good piece of advise.

[BisonBabe]

Once again, I don't see any conceivable way the term I-AA could be perceived as disrespectful. I'm willing to listen to whatever anybody has to say, but unless somebody comes up with a convincing argument that makes me see the light I'm not going to change just for the sake of change.

I get the feeling that I am only doing this http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/5.gif

[NDSUFREAK]

For me it took me a long while to get used to FCS. I'm not used to FBS because I never use it. :p But the name has grown on me and it is a habit on using it.

[james_lawfirm]

Now that point I will agree with you on. I personally think that both USC and Michigan were better than Florida last year, but then again so was Ohio State. If Florida played Ohio State 10 times the Buckeyes would probably win that matchup 7 times if not 8 or 9. But since they only play it once and Florida happened to play a better game that night they ended up with the championship. They really were just lucky that UCLA beat USC, or else we would have had a USC/Ohio State national championship game. However you spin it, the system is a joke. I would like it a lot more if they had a playoff system in place like the ones used in the lower divisions.

Dave:
You know, I thought the same thing, e.g., that OSU would wallop UF. And then the game began.

It was clear to me that the better team won. And, that was no fluke - they won with authority. I have no doubt they would win at least 9 of those hypothetical 10 anygivensaturday matchups you mentioned.

The reason for UF's superiority? SPEED. They were quicker and faster at every position on every play. OSU's big, fat boys did not stand a chance. This factor is changing the game of football as we know it.

It was NOT an accident that the two Div. 1 nat'l champions (UF & ASU) were known for their team speed. In fact, it was the REASON they won their championships. How do you beat speed? I don't know, but not with big, fat boys. It seems the only way to beat speed is with more speed.

But, I agree wholeheartedly that the bowl system is a joke. Playoffs work.

[DaveK]

And DaveK, off the record, get rid of that blatantly untrue sig line you have. At least I have mine like it is because my team PROVED IT.

What do you mean your team proved it? When was the last time they played the Sioux? When was the last time they beat the Sioux? As long as they continue to not play each other neither one of us can say that we know for a fact who is better. They're both good, but we really don't know who is better. For you to call my signature line blatantly untrue just makes you look biased and unobjective.

[DaveK]

Dave:
You know, I thought the same thing, e.g., that OSU would wallop UF. And then the game began.

It was clear to me that the better team won. And, that was no fluke - they won with authority. I have no doubt they would win at least 9 of those hypothetical 10 anygivensaturday matchups you mentioned.

The reason for UF's superiority? SPEED. They were quicker and faster at every position on every play. OSU's big, fat boys did not stand a chance. This factor is changing the game of football as we know it.

It was NOT an accident that the two Div. 1 nat'l champions (UF & ASU) were known for their team speed. In fact, it was the REASON they won their championships. How do you beat speed? I don't know, but not with big, fat boys. It seems the only way to beat speed is with more speed.

But, I agree wholeheartedly that the bowl system is a joke. Playoffs work.

You can't just assume that the same exact scenario would play out in each and every game of a hypothetical 10 game series just because it happened in the one game that was actually played. Yeah, Florida has some fast players but so does Ohio State. The Gators didn't win because they're faster, they won because they had a more well-executed gameplan.

Although it was very clear that Florida played a better game than OSU on that particular night, it was considered an upset based on the idea that OSU on paper was the better team. That's why they play the games. Unfortunately for the Buckeyes, it wasn't a best of 7 series. But regarding the concept of a playoff, I have serious doubts that Florida could have won four consecutive game against top-ranked opponents.

[NDSUFREAK]

What do you mean your team proved it? When was the last time they played the Sioux? When was the last time they beat the Sioux? As long as they continue to not play each other neither one of us can say that we know for a fact who is better. They're both good, but we really don't know who is better. For you to call my signature line blatantly untrue just makes you look biased and unobjective.

Yup, so then you can't say that und is the best football team in ND because you guys haven't played this BISON team since its DII days. We are a different team...xsmiley_wix

[agsadmin]

There is no question in the mind of any objective individual that the BCS title game is THE national championship of Division I football. I-AA is what it is, the 2nd highest division of NCAA football.Objectivity: The NCAA Board of Directors approved new labels for the two football subdivisions in Division I. The presidents approved a change in terminology to “Football Bowl Subdivision” for the former I-A classification and “NCAA Football Championship Subdivision” for the former I-AA group. The change became effective with the beginning of the D-I playoffs in 2006.

The BCS title game is a bowl game sanctioned by the NCAA like all the others. It is not an NCAA Division I game though the teams play in the Football Bowl Subdivision during the regular season. NCAA Division I has a championship playoff and teams have to play in the NCAA Football Championship Subdivision. Ask Appalachian State what is written on their trophy.

I-AA was never a different different division of NCAA football than I-A. That kind of thinking is precisely why the NCAA member schools voted for the new labels.

The name of this board upon which you are posting is named FCS Discussion and it is part of a group of boards here called General FCS.To state that you call the FCS, I-AA out of respect for the FBS displays a rude disrespect for the members of AGS who post here and for the FCS in general. With that attitude perhaps you should consider not posting in the FCS sections of AGS?

[Mountaineer]

To state that you call the FCS, I-AA out of respect for the FBS displays a rude disrespect for the members of AGS who post here and for the FCS in general. With that attitude perhaps you should consider not posting in the FCS sections of AGS?

xthumbsupx

I figure he's only doing it to be antagonistic to the board. And it's definitely working, which is why I just ignore (or don't bother to respond) to his posts.

Eventually he'll join MplsBison as an afterthought, which I don't understand why he'd want to. I mean the purpose of the board is to discuss FCS football with fellow fans, learn some stuff, maybe make a few friends. Not to be a douche for the sake of being a douche. xtwocentsx

[BisonBabe]

Objectivity: The NCAA Board of Directors approved new labels for the two football subdivisions in Division I. The presidents approved a change in terminology to “Football Bowl Subdivision” for the former I-A classification and “NCAA Football Championship Subdivision” for the former I-AA group. The change became effective with the beginning of the D-I playoffs in 2006.

The BCS title game is a bowl game sanctioned by the NCAA like all the others. It is not an NCAA Division I game though the teams play in the Football Bowl Subdivision during the regular season. NCAA Division I has a championship playoff and teams have to play in the NCAA Football Championship Subdivision. Ask Appalachian State what is written on their trophy.

I-AA was never a different different division of NCAA football than I-A. That kind of thinking is precisely why the NCAA member schools voted for the new labels.

The name of this board upon which you are posting is named FCS Discussion and it is part of a group of boards here called General FCS.To state that you call the FCS, I-AA out of respect for the FBS displays a rude disrespect for the members of AGS who post here and for the FCS in general. With that attitude perhaps you should consider not posting in the FCS sections of AGS?


xthumbsupx

I figure he's only doing it to be antagonistic to the board. And it's definitely working, which is why I just ignore (or don't bother to respond) to his posts.

Eventually he'll join MplsBison as an afterthought, which I don't understand why he'd want to. I mean the purpose of the board is to discuss FCS football with fellow fans, learn some stuff, maybe make a few friends. Not to be a douche for the sake of being a douche. xtwocentsx

Thank you both for chiming in with insight as well as wit.xsmiley_wix

[NDSUFREAK]

THANK YOU ADMIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btw, mountaineer, taking my idea of a animation flag out of my sig huh?? :D :p

[DaveK]

[QUOTE=agsadmin;553504I-AA was never a different different division of NCAA football than I-A.[/QUOTE]

On the contrary, it is a different division of NCAA football. That's why they play for two different championships. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[DaveK]

xthumbsupx

I figure he's only doing it to be antagonistic to the board. And it's definitely working, which is why I just ignore (or don't bother to respond) to his posts.

Eventually he'll join MplsBison as an afterthought, which I don't understand why he'd want to. I mean the purpose of the board is to discuss FCS football with fellow fans, learn some stuff, maybe make a few friends. Not to be a douche for the sake of being a douche. xtwocentsx

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm just trying to keep things in proper perspective. I'm proud of UND's status as a small-college football program but I'm not about to join others in acting as if we're as relevant as the big-time programs in college football when we obviously are not. I'm very much interested in discussing I-AA football, but I have no interest in trying to act as if we're on the same level as I-A (which I like to refer to as simply D1). That isn't being a douche, that's just being realistic. It's like somebody stated at SiouxSports.com, Candlestick Park is still Candlestick Park to a lot of people even though it is no longer the official name. That isn't disrespectful to the stadium, it's merely what people grew up with.

[DaveK]

Yup, so then you can't say that und is the best football team in ND because you guys haven't played this BISON team since its DII days. We are a different team...xsmiley_wix

I can say it as a matter of opinion. Nobody can call it blatantly true or blatantly untrue.

[agsadmin]

On the contrary, it is a different division of NCAA football.You are wrong and that is a fact. Division I had two subdivisions of football until last year called I-AA and I-A. They were both in the same division, Division I. Now they have the same two subdivisions of football and they have been relabled NCAA FCS and FBS. They are still both in the same division, Division I. Notice that FCS has NCAA in the name and FBS does not. That is a strong message that FBS does not play for an NCAA championship. Hence, the new labels. If you deny that then it is obvious you have a problem here and should seriously consider posting elsewhere. This is an NCAA Football Championship Subdivision board.

[DaveK]

You are wrong and that is a fact. Division I had two subdivisions of football until last year called I-AA and I-A. They were both in the same division, Division I. Now they have the same two subdivisions of football and they have been relabled NCAA FCS and FBS. They are still both in the same division, Division I. Notice that FCS has NCAA in the name and FBS does not. That is a strong message that FBS does not play for an NCAA championship. Hence, the new labels. If you deny that then it is obvious you have a problem here and should seriously consider posting elsewhere. This is an NCAA Football Championship Subdivision board.

Division/subdivision... you're splitting hairs now. The fact of the matter is that they are two different LEVELS of football that play for two different championships. Whether you choose to refer to those levels as divisions or subdivisions doesn't make any difference to me.

[TxnYote]

Making the move when we did was long overdue but it's all about leadership. Currently NDSU has the best leadership they have probably ever had. It's also the reason we didn't make the move when we should have 25 years ago, we didn't have the leadership with the vision to do it. We made the move with our current leaders and am dam glad we made it when we did and we are going to reap the benefits of it starting this year for most sports. Football will starting in 08, don't get me wrong either I have tremendous respect for our conference mates in the GWFC but with the Gateway we have stability and a conference with the Auto Bid. We can thank our leadership for getting us where we are. I just wish we would of had these people 25 years ago.

Ok, in an attempt to end a longer hijack than Pierce Brosnan's run as the title character in the 007 franchise, I would like to get back on the topic of the UxD's joining the FCS.

Honestly, I'm a bit nervous at the moment with the news of UND's press release concerning their application submission and the fact that USD hasn't come out with a similar announcement. I'm worried that this might have something to do with the news that Coach Meierkort was recently conducting phone interviews with Montana State. Maybe Joel Nielson has had more pressing issues(Meierkort's availability, talking contract security) to deal with this week instead of submitting this packet or a press release concerning it.

I do know that the university has announced that it had designated Outdoor Men's and Women's Track as the sports to be first eligible for championships at the DI level.

Outdoor track and field reclassifies for DI early (http://media.www.volanteonline.com/media/storage/paper468/news/2007/04/25/VolanteNewsNow/Outdoor.Track.And.Field.Reclassifies.For.Di.Early-2880774.shtml)

But as to why I quoted the post I did. I think university leadership is key to the move and currently USD has the people in the positions to provide this to us. Will there be setbacks? I'm sure there will be, but I'm glad that we're starting this journey now.

As to the whole FCS vs. I-AA debate. I have a degree from a FBS school and from USD. When talking with my FBS buddies, they know this level as I-AA so thats what I use. Even with my USD friends, I-AA is the norm, as its still a recent change. However, since I consider this board to consist of people truly fanatic about FCS football, if you can use the FCS title anywhere and have it be understood, this would be the place.

TxnYote

[MplsBison]

I know you guys have an elite track program.

But do you even have an outdoor track?


Literally, the only facility listed on your athletics page is the Dakota Dome. You don't play every single sport in there, do you?

[The Sheriff]

Ok, in an attempt to end a longer hijack than Pierce Brosnan's run as the title character in the 007 franchise, I would like to get back on the topic of the UxD's joining the FCS.

Honestly, I'm a bit nervous at the moment with the news of UND's press release concerning their application submission and the fact that USD hasn't come out with a similar announcement. I'm worried that this might have something to do with the news that Coach Meierkort was recently conducting phone interviews with Montana State. Maybe Joel Nielson has had more pressing issues(Meierkort's availability, talking contract security) to deal with this week instead of submitting this packet or a press release concerning it.

I do know that the university has announced that it had designated Outdoor Men's and Women's Track as the sports to be first eligible for championships at the DI level.

Outdoor track and field reclassifies for DI early (http://media.www.volanteonline.com/media/storage/paper468/news/2007/04/25/VolanteNewsNow/Outdoor.Track.And.Field.Reclassifies.For.Di.Early-2880774.shtml)

But as to why I quoted the post I did. I think university leadership is key to the move and currently USD has the people in the positions to provide this to us. Will there be setbacks? I'm sure there will be, but I'm glad that we're starting this journey now.

As to the whole FCS vs. I-AA debate. I have a degree from a FBS school and from USD. When talking with my FBS buddies, they know this level as I-AA so thats what I use. Even with my USD friends, I-AA is the norm, as its still a recent change. However, since I consider this board to consist of people truly fanatic about FCS football, if you can use the FCS title anywhere and have it be understood, this would be the place.

TxnYote

When it's all said and done Txn, you will find out that you guys do belong with the other 3 Dakota schools. The challenges that you are facing right now and imminently will face will be the same challenges that faced NDSU and SDSU and they found a way to get through it. UND is facing a changes at their highest leadership position about the time they will be starting the transition (Kupchella retiring).

[TexasTerror]

Division/subdivision... you're splitting hairs now. The fact of the matter is that they are two different LEVELS of football that play for two different championships. Whether you choose to refer to those levels as divisions or subdivisions doesn't make any difference to me.

FBS does not play for a championship...there is a reason the NCAA does not recognize them...

[DaveK]

FBS does not play for a championship...there is a reason the NCAA does not recognize them...

They play for the BCS championship.

[PMB4Life]

PMB - we'll see how "DII-like" you think we are when we start Gateway competition.

Actually, I should clarify... NDSU and SDSU will be men amongst baby boys in that "league." Just give it about ten years, and the Valley will start playing footsie with your institutions...

And I welcome the xDSUs with open arms, UNI desperately needs a conference regional rival, and I think they may have finally found them.

[IowaBisonToo]

DaveK - I'll bet you didn't play nice as a child when you had to compromise, did you?xsmhx Give up the chest-pounding. Whether you agree or disagree, >99% of the people on this board use the terminology FCS. It would be the same exact thing as somebody disrespecting your precious hockey team when they say UND has won national championships in hockey, but not really because they have an asterisk by there name since they're DII in all their other sports. How does that make you feel? Disrespected would be my guess and you would fight that 'til you die.

Quit arguing for once in your life. Your not making many friends on this board and maybe you don't care but, people will not take you seriously until you quit having to have things YOUR way. Be a team player if you know how to.

To all the USD and UND fans, welcome to FCS football.xpeacex

[DaveK]

DaveK - I'll bet you didn't play nice as a child when you had to compromise, did you?xsmhx Give up the chest-pounding. Whether you agree or disagree, >99% of the people on this board use the terminology FCS. It would be the same exact thing as somebody disrespecting your precious hockey team when they say UND has won national championships in hockey, but not really because they have an asterisk by there name since they're DII in all their other sports. How does that make you feel? Disrespected would be my guess and you would fight that 'til you die.

Quit arguing for once in your life. Your not making many friends on this board and maybe you don't care but, people will not take you seriously until you quit having to have things YOUR way. Be a team player if you know how to.

To all the USD and UND fans, welcome to FCS football.xpeacex

99% of the people are entitled to use the term FCS if that's their preference, I have no problem with that. The only thing I have a problem with is somebody trying to tell me I can't use the term I-AA. Each to their own, right?

I have no idea how a D2 school winning a D1 hockey championship has anything to do with this.

[IowaBisonToo]

99% of the people are entitled to use the term FCS if that's their preference, I have no problem with that. The only thing I have a problem with is somebody trying to tell me I can't use the term I-AA. Each to their own, right?

I have no idea how a D2 school winning a D1 hockey championship has anything to do with this.
It shows a lack of respect and a sense of normality to the fans of other schools you're trying to discuss things with. Besides a few of your southern neighbors in Fargo who would bring up the fact UND is a DII institution winning DI championships at any given moment (thus not truly being a DI institutuion), there are few people that would say in terms of hockey, UND is a DII institution when talking about them. In fact in hockey circles, it's never brought up although technically it could be. People call UND a DI school when referring to hockey because that's where they play. Same holds here. This site is intended for those who follow FCS football - the actual name of the subdivision - and that's where they play, not DI-AA!

If you want to be obstinate, that's your prerogative. Just don't expect people to take you very seriously. Soon you'll come to be known as that a**hole know-it-all from UND. If that's how you want to be known, I'm sure many people here can label you as such and accommodate you.xnonono2x xoopsx It's like xbangx. Why is it you have to be so difficult?xeyebrowx

[agsadmin]

It shows a lack of respect and a sense of normality to the fans of other schools you're trying to discuss things with. Besides a few of your southern neighbors in Fargo who would bring up the fact UND is a DII institution winning DI championships at any given moment (thus not truly being a DI institutuion), there are few people that would say in terms of hockey, UND is a DII institution when talking about them. In fact in hockey circles, it's never brought up although technically it could be. People call UND a DI school when referring to hockey because that's where they play. Same holds here. This site is intended for those who follow FCS football - the actual name of the subdivision - and that's where they play, not DI-AA!

If you want to be obstinate, that's your prerogative. Just don't expect people to take you very seriously. Soon you'll come to be known as that a**hole know-it-all from UND. If that's how you want to be known, I'm sure many people here can label you as such and accommodate you.xnonono2x xoopsx It's like xbangx. Why is it you have to be so difficult?xeyebrowx2006 AGS AWARDS!

ANNOYING POSTER OF THE YEAR
1. 18.87% MplsBison
2. 9.43% detroitflyer
3. 7.55% umassfan
4T. 5.66% mainejeff
4T. 5.66% DaveK

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19480

[IowaBisonToo]

2006 AGS AWARDS!

ANNOYING POSTER OF THE YEAR
1. 18.87% MplsBison
2. 9.43% detroitflyer
3. 7.55% umassfan
4T. 5.66% mainejeff
4T. 5.66% DaveK

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19480

Boy, DaveK keeps some pretty good company and he hardly ever posts.xlolx Thanks for the link AGSadmin.xthumbsupx

[bison95]

Who?

[DaveK]

It shows a lack of respect and a sense of normality to the fans of other schools you're trying to discuss things with. Besides a few of your southern neighbors in Fargo who would bring up the fact UND is a DII institution winning DI championships at any given moment (thus not truly being a DI institutuion), there are few people that would say in terms of hockey, UND is a DII institution when talking about them. In fact in hockey circles, it's never brought up although technically it could be. People call UND a DI school when referring to hockey because that's where they play. Same holds here. This site is intended for those who follow FCS football - the actual name of the subdivision - and that's where they play, not DI-AA!

If you want to be obstinate, that's your prerogative. Just don't expect people to take you very seriously. Soon you'll come to be known as that a**hole know-it-all from UND. If that's how you want to be known, I'm sure many people here can label you as such and accommodate you.xnonono2x xoopsx It's like xbangx. Why is it you have to be so difficult?xeyebrowx

You speak as if I-AA is some sort of derogatory term when in fact it is merely the title that this division of college football made a name for itself under. There's nothing disrespectful about it. I respect I-AA football, I just don't care for the term FCS and choose to stick with the old terminology that I'm more comfortable with. You don't think it's disrespectful to refer to San Francisco 49ers' stadium as Candlestick Park, do you? This is no different. What do you expect when you change a name that has been in use for a long time that many people are familiar with?

[spelunker64]

This message is hidden because DaveK is on your ignore list.

[IowaBisonToo]

Arguing for the sake of arguing.xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx Sorry for the many that have him on your ignore list and had to see his posts through my quoting him. I may have to try that feature.:o

[DaveK]

This message is hidden because DaveK is on your ignore list.

oh no, please don't put me your ignore list.

[BisonBabe]

I want to preface my following comments with that famous Southern saying "Well Bless His Heart"

Continuing to be difficult regarding FCS is beginning to be like a toddler who is not getting his way. Bless His Heart.xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[IowaBisonToo]

I want to preface my following comments with that famous Southern saying "Well Bless His Heart"

Continuing to be difficult regarding FCS is beginning to be like a toddler who is not getting his way. Bless His Heart.xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

You ever seen that comedian who has that as a bit in his show? That's hilarious - Bless his heart.xlolx

[JBB]

Using DI-AA is derogatory. JimDahl wont let anyone misslabel the sue on siouxtalkaboutbisonsports.com. For those of you in the GWFC getting their first taste of this arrogance, I have a modest porposal:

Get Used To It.xcoolx

[IowaBisonToo]

Using DI-AA is derogatory. JimDahl wont let anyone misslabel the sue on siouxtalkaboutbisonsports.com. For those of you in the GWFC getting their first taste of this arrogance, I have a modest porposal:

Get Used To It.xcoolx
xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx

[DaveK]

Using DI-AA is derogatory. JimDahl wont let anyone misslabel the sue on siouxtalkaboutbisonsports.com. For those of you in the GWFC getting their first taste of this arrogance, I have a modest porposal:

Get Used To It.xcoolx

There's nothng derogatory about it. The way you talk, you'd think the term I-AA was a slur made up by fans of a rival division and not the actual official title that this division of football made a name for itself under. Anybody who thinks that it is derogatory has some very serious issues. I think it is a name that people can and should take great pride in, I know I certainly do.

[IowaBisonToo]

What's that Charlie Brown's teacher says? "Waaa, wa waa wa waaaa. Wa Waa Wa Wawa Waaaaa."xlolx

[biobengal]

2006 AGS AWARDS!

ANNOYING POSTER OF THE YEAR
1. 18.87% MplsBison
2. 9.43% detroitflyer
3. 7.55% umassfan
4T. 5.66% mainejeff
4T. 5.66% DaveK

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19480

IMO, this is probably an encouraging sign for Dave; validation for his behavior. I have been reading a few dog training books..... Often, the first lesson involves not attending to unwanted behaviors. :D

[IowaBisonToo]

IMO, this is probably an encouraging sign for Dave; validation for his behavior. I have been reading a few dog training books..... Often, the first lesson involves not attending to unwanted behaviors. :D

Never formally trained a dog. We used to beat ours to get them to listen but, I'll try your advice.

[No_Skill]

IMO, this is probably an encouraging sign for Dave; validation for his behavior. I have been reading a few dog training books..... Often, the first lesson involves not attending to unwanted behaviors. :D

That is freaking HILARIOUS! xlolx xnodx xlolx

[dakotadan]

WOW! Did this thread ever go wrong. xsmhx

Hopefully some day we will be able to carry on a civil conversation about any one of the Dakota schools without it turning into a no win, pissing match argument. Can't we start to act like we have educations and degrees from flagship universities?

To try to remotely get this thread back on track, has any news come out of USD lately? The Coyote camp has been rather quiet lately.

[TxnYote]

I know you guys have an elite track program.

But do you even have an outdoor track?


Literally, the only facility listed on your athletics page is the Dakota Dome. You don't play every single sport in there, do you?

At this time, we currently do not have an outdoor track facility. But, I really only think that this is significant in that we can't HOST an outdoor track event, I don't think it hinders our athletes ability to prepare for one. Our throwers have ample facilities to practice outdoors, and the outdoor distances can be simulated on the indoor track.

Heres' the the thing, I trust that Mr. Nielson is making plans for an outdoor track facility, as well as the basketball only facility that has been rumored to be in the planning stages. If he's not, then I and others have severely underestimated him as an Athletic Director. In TxnYote's perfect world, a 2-3 year donation campaign would result in an outdoor track facility nearby and a separate basketball/volleyball facility in either the current tailgate lot or the vacated spot once the trailers are removed.

BTW PMB4Life, your Sig Line is quite possibly the greatest one I've ever read.

TxnYote

[WYOBISONMAN]

This thread ought to be locked.....way stupid and way off topic.....