Which FBS invite would NDSU jump for?

[Mattymc727]

The Big12 will probably never call, but could the MAC, MWC, or the American?

Comparing revenue models, at what point would it make sense for NDSU to jump?

[Nor Eastern]

Well comparing media deals the MAC lags behind MWC and AAC significantly. MAC makes $850,000 per team from their ESPN deal. MWC will be making $4 million per team from their Fox/CBS deal (and third tier rights are still pending, so probably more $). AAC will be making $7 million per team from their ESPN deal.

[Laker]

Does NDSU really want to move up?

[Nor Eastern]

Why would they? They just sold out a stadium half a country away. Won another Natty. Drew in 2.6 million viewers and a rating of 1.7 on broadcast ABC on a Saturday.

[Mattymc727]

Does NDSU really want to move up?

I think if the American came calling, you would have to. If it was the MWC or MAC, you would have to think about it.

- - - Updated - - -


Why would they? They just sold out a stadium half a country away. Won another Natty. Drew in 2.6 million viewers and a rating of 1.7 on broadcast ABC on a Saturday.

More money

[Nor Eastern]

I think if the American came calling, you would have to. If it was the MWC or MAC, you would have to think about it.

The MWC champion played a P5 school in the Las Vegas Bowl and had less ratings than the FCS Championship game.

[Mattymc727]

The MWC champion played a P5 school in the Las Vegas Bowl and had less ratings than the FCS Championship game.

But how much money did Boise State bring in?

Why doesn't Boise State just move down to FCS then?

[Professor Chaos]

The Big12 will probably never call, but could the MAC, MWC, or the American?

Comparing revenue models, at what point would it make sense for NDSU to jump?
In my opinion NDSU would/should do everything in their power to make the jump if the MWC or AAC invites them. If it's the MAC... no thanks.

[TheKingpin28]

If people want NDSU gone, we need the following:

-250-300 million for a new football stadium

-Double and/or triple our athletic budget overnight. This means we need to spend about 3-5 million on Men's Basketball, make Women's basketball competitive, add men's soccer, and swimming and diving for both men and women so we can make olympic sports more eye-appealing.

-Increase FCOA to all sports

-Rebuild the basketball stadium into something that is not an abomination.

-Build an Indoor Practice Facility for all sports with a fully staffed health and nuturion team.

Did I miss anything?

Based off of all of this, NDSU would need a minimum of 500 million to make this all work and make it viable. The MWC is the least I could see NDSU settling for but without a viable option for national title opportunity, it's on the never going to happen list.

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[Mattymc727]

If people want NDSU gone, we need the following:

-250-300 million for a new football stadium

-Double and/or triple our athletic budget overnight. This means we need to spend about 3-5 million on Men's Basketball, make Women's basketball competitive, add men's soccer, and swimming and diving for both men and women so we can make olympic sports more eye-appealing.

-Increase FCOA to all sports

-Rebuild the basketball stadium into something that is not an abomination.

-Build an Indoor Practice Facility for all sports with a fully staffed health and nuturion team.

Did I miss anything?

Based off of all of this, NDSU would need a minimum of 500 million to make this all work and make it viable. The MWC is the least I could see NDSU settling for but without a viable option for national title opportunity, it's on the never going to happen list.

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Why not a potential New Years Day Bowl? That would be more powerful than 8 FCS titles. NDSU may never win another national title in football again, but that hasn't hurt Boise State.

[Professor Chaos]

If people want NDSU gone, we need the following:

-250-300 million for a new football stadium

-Double and/or triple our athletic budget overnight. This means we need to spend about 3-5 million on Men's Basketball, make Women's basketball competitive, add men's soccer, and swimming and diving for both men and women so we can make olympic sports more eye-appealing.

-Increase FCOA to all sports

-Rebuild the basketball stadium into something that is not an abomination.

-Build an Indoor Practice Facility for all sports with a fully staffed health and nuturion team.

Did I miss anything?

Based off of all of this, NDSU would need a minimum of 500 million to make this all work and make it viable. The MWC is the least I could see NDSU settling for but without a viable option for national title opportunity, it's on the never going to happen list.

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They already have FCOA in all sports but a lot of your other stuff is right. I've always said that the 3 top priorities to position NDSU for a successful FBS move would be:
1) Finish fundraising for and build the IPF (the plans are already in place but last I heard they were ~$15M short of this)
2) Invest in the men's basketball program at a high mid-major level (A10/MWC level)
3) Partner with whoever they need to in order to build a new 25-30k seat indoor stadium (monster $$$$ will be needed for this like you mentioned)

You need money for all that stuff and in a conservative state like ND you can't expect much, if any, of that to come from the university or from student fees. Competitively I think NDSU football would be fine in the MWC or AAC right now but I don't think they could sustain that without the above 3 items. Of course all this assumes that a conference invite is forthcoming which I still don't see the benefit a conference like the MWC or AAC would get in splitting their revenue pie up one piece smaller to add a geographic outlier like NDSU with no major TV market or population center to back it up.

[TheKingpin28]

Why not a potential New Years Day Bowl? That would be more powerful than 8 FCS titles. NDSU may never win another national title in football again, but that hasn't hurt Boise State.A national title lasts forever whereas a Cotton Bowl is not a natth.

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[TheKingpin28]

They already have FCOA in all sports but a lot of your other stuff is right. I've always said that the 3 top priorities to position NDSU for a successful FBS move would be:
1) Finish fundraising for and build the IPF (the plans are already in place but last I heard they were ~$15M short of this)
2) Invest in the men's basketball program at a high mid-major level (A10/MWC level)
3) Partner with whoever they need to in order to build a new 25-30k seat indoor stadium (monster $$$$ will be needed for this like you mentioned)

You need money for all that stuff and in a conservative state like ND you can't expect much, if any, of that to come from the university or from student fees. Competitively I think NDSU football would be fine in the MWC or AAC right now but I don't think they could sustain that without the above 3 items. Of course all this assumes that a conference invite is forthcoming which I still don't see the benefit a conference like the MWC or AAC would get in splitting their revenue pie up one piece smaller to add a geographic outlier like NDSU with no major TV market or population center to back it up.I added the Olympic sports as going to 85 schollies needs a counterbalance for it and FCOA would have to extend to the new schools.

If someone has 500 million lying around that they do not need, NDSU would be more than grateful for it and I'd love for them to go to FBS but not at the cost of never having a fair chance at competing for national again. If the FBS went to a 10 autobid and 6 at-large tournament, then that's fine, but not this P5 circlejerk session they have right now.

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[uni88]

The Big12 will probably never call, but could the MAC, MWC, or the American?

Comparing revenue models, at what point would it make sense for NDSU to jump?

The MAC isn't calling. The distance from DeKalb, IL (the furthest western school in the MAC) to Fargo is roughly the same as the distance from DeKalb to Buffalo (the furthest eastern school). The MAC was happy to see UMass go because they were so far outside of their geographic footprint. They're not going to double their geographic size for NDSU.

[F'N Hawks]

I added the Olympic sports as going to 85 schollies needs a counterbalance for it and FCOA would have to extend to the new schools.

If someone has 500 million lying around that they do not need, NDSU would be more than grateful for it and I'd love for them to go to FBS but not at the cost of never having a fair chance at competing for national again. If the FBS went to a 10 autobid and 6 at-large tournament, then that's fine, but not this P5 circlejerk session they have right now.

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On top of all that they would need to consider Title IX as NDSU is already doing is little as they can to stay out of court. Adding 22 more men's scholarships would certainly alert somebody's radar.

[Bisonator]

The MAC isn't calling. The distance from DeKalb, IL (the furthest western school in the MAC) to Fargo is roughly the same as the distance from DeKalb to Buffalo (the furthest eastern school). The MAC was happy to see UMass go because they were so far outside of their geographic footprint. They're not going to double their geographic size for NDSU.
The MAC is awful and there's no way in hell NDSU would consider it anyway.

[JacksFan40]

A national title lasts forever whereas a Cotton Bowl is not a natth.

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An FCS title is better then most bowl games but not the NY6. Look at how big it’s made programs like UCF and Boise.

[Lorne_Malvo]

Why would NDSU want to be FBS? They gain nothing and spend millions.
It makes no sense.

[JacksFan40]

The MAC would be a downgrade for the Bison and the MAC seems happy maintaining a certain geographical area.
The MWC is pretty full and the only way they’ll invite anyone is if Boise gets a P5 invite, plus I’d almost bet they’re more likely to invite the Montana’s before NDSU.
The American is somewhat possible as they might need a new member after UConn left and they’re all over the place geographically. Problem is most teams in the American are in huge markets and Fargo is not big.
UCF is in Orlando, USF is in Tampa, Houston, Memphis, and Tulsa are obvious, Navy is an academy and has a large following, being in Annapolis helps as well, Temple is in Philadelphia, Tulane is in New Orleans, SMU is in Dallas. The only comparable one is East Carolina in Greenville. I’d say the American would be more likely to incite Charlotte or Florida International as they’re in Miami and have a huge student body.

The other problem is NDSU isn’t going anywhere without SDSU. The two have been a combo deal since moving to D1.

[Professor Chaos]

The MAC isn't calling. The distance from DeKalb, IL (the furthest western school in the MAC) to Fargo is roughly the same as the distance from DeKalb to Buffalo (the furthest eastern school). The MAC was happy to see UMass go because they were so far outside of their geographic footprint. They're not going to double their geographic size for NDSU.
The argument from the "FBS now" crowd on Bisonville (where this topic has been debated to death 157 times over) is that those conferences should be willing to add NDSU as an affiliate football-only member. For football your teams are chartering flights anyway so it doesn't really matter how far away the schools are. But for the non-revenue sports that becomes a much bigger deal and a deal breaker like you said.

I still say the biggest hurdle towards any conference extending an invite to NDSU isn't purely geography it's the lack of a significant TV market. Maybe with more and more sports going to on-demand streaming options NDSU will become more appealing since I'd guess their streaming numbers are comparable with most G5s but TV contracts still drive the bus for most leagues when it comes to balancing their athletic budgets and NDSU doesn't add any value there.

[JacksFan40]

The MAC is awful and there's no way in hell NDSU would consider it anyway.
When the number one bowl game for the conference is the LendingTree Bowl you know it ain’t good.

[that guy]

I don't think much is going to change until the p5 break away totally from the rest of the ncaa. It will be years before they figure out what they will do with the name image and likeness for players. The rest of the conferences can't grow a pair and break away to have a true ncaa playoff without the p5 so I think NDSU and a few other are stuck in FCS unless they want to become the next UConn of football obscurity.

[ST_Lawson]

I still say the biggest hurdle towards any conference extending an invite to NDSU isn't purely geography it's the lack of a significant TV market. Maybe with more and more sports going to on-demand streaming options NDSU will become more appealing since I'd guess their streaming numbers are comparable with most G5s but TV contracts still drive the bus for most leagues when it comes to balancing their athletic budgets and NDSU doesn't add any value there.

Although wouldn't NDSU's "TV market" essentially include all of North Dakota? As it stands right now, that's pretty much the case, right? You can watch NDSU football essentially anywhere in ND, plus a few counties into MT, MN, and SD (according to the TV network coverage map (https://gobison.com/sports/2016/8/21/radio-and-television-coverage-map.aspx)). Obviously not everyone in there is watching NDSU football, but ND has a population of ~760k. If that's the "TV market", then it's more people than are in the TV markets of plenty of FBS teams.

It's no NY or DC (which is why the Big 10 added Rutgers and Maryland), but it's not bad.

[Silenoz]

Does NDSU really want to move up?
Strike while the iron's hot. There has to be some sort of diminishing return when a 14th title is won over 15 years in front of 12,000 people in the dome for a quarter-final game. Why get excited about playing (and maybe beating) an Oregon type of team every 3rd year when it could be multiple times a season?

Obviously that addresses the "want" and not the "how"

[uni88]

The argument from the "FBS now" crowd on Bisonville (where this topic has been debated to death 157 times over) is that those conferences should be willing to add NDSU as an affiliate football-only member. For football your teams are chartering flights anyway so it doesn't really matter how far away the schools are. But for the non-revenue sports that becomes a much bigger deal and a deal breaker like you said.

I still say the biggest hurdle towards any conference extending an invite to NDSU isn't purely geography it's the lack of a significant TV market. Maybe with more and more sports going to on-demand streaming options NDSU will become more appealing since I'd guess their streaming numbers are comparable with most G5s but TV contracts still drive the bus for most leagues when it comes to balancing their athletic budgets and NDSU doesn't add any value there.

I'm not sure TV market size matters as much as it used to. When realignment was at its peak, Conference USA was going for all of the big market teams leaving the Sunbelt with scraps. Fast forward to today and you could argue that the Sunbelt is the 3rd best G5 conference behind the AAC and MWC. The Sunbelt has smaller markets but better programs and IMO better rivalries.

[Professor Chaos]

Although wouldn't NDSU's "TV market" essentially include all of North Dakota? As it stands right now, that's pretty much the case, right? You can watch NDSU football essentially anywhere in ND, plus a few counties into MT, MN, and SD (according to the TV network coverage map (https://gobison.com/sports/2016/8/21/radio-and-television-coverage-map.aspx)). Obviously not everyone in there is watching NDSU football, but ND has a population of ~760k. If that's the "TV market", then it's more people than are in the TV markets of plenty of FBS teams.

It's no NY or DC (which is why the Big 10 added Rutgers and Maryland), but it's not bad.
Yeah, I'm sure it would. I don't have any number to reference in comparison to G5 schools but I didn't think the maybe 1M population center between ND and western MN isn't big enough to attract G5 conferences from either a TV market perspective or a population center/recruiting perspective.

Btw, on the topic of Rutgers... Dan Patrick mentioned on his show yesterday that one of his guys called into a Vegas sports book to check and if NDSU played Rutgers on a neutral field in the "Relegation Bowl" that NDSU would be 21 point favorites.

[DFW HOYA]

This not realistic on any number of levels.

First, conferences follow a food chain when it comes for expansion. The Big 10 doesn't look for teams in Conference USA, for instance. The order is:

Power 5
AAC or MWC
C-USA
MAC
Sun Belt
I-AA/FCS

The AAC has zero interest in a team at the I-AA level (read=James Madison). They will look first to Conference USA, and down the line.

NDSU is in the same place Delaware was (or still is). There's little demand to move up and it's not worth the expense. Unless it's the MWC, no other conference has the geographic continuity to want to play games in Fargo.

As to the idea that it would take $500 million, construction costs aren't that high in ND. An expansion of the Fargodome could be done for less than half that, but again, for what purpose? If the MWC isn't calling, take the 20K every week and be happy with it. In one sense, that's what Old Dominion did. Foreman Field sat 22,000, they spent $67 million on a tear down/rebuild and it still seats 22K, can sell out every time, and they don't need 50,000 seats (and 25,000 empty seats) to be a quality program.

[ysubigred]

Since your all on fantasy island, why not make it the Big11[emoji57]

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[IBleedYellow]

If the FCS wants us out of here so bad, y'all can pool money together. If each FCS school pays us $1.5M I can see us leaving.

If not. Sorry yo.

[Nor Eastern]

I'm not sure TV market size matters as much as it used to. When realignment was at its peak, Conference USA was going for all of the big market teams leaving the Sunbelt with scraps. Fast forward to today and you could argue that the Sunbelt is the 3rd best G5 conference behind the AAC and MWC. The Sunbelt has smaller markets but better programs and IMO better rivalries.

If somehow the Sun Belt still had Idaho and NMSU as FB only then NDSU FB only would have an instant chance for a rivalry with App State and Georgia Southern, which played NDSU tight in the early 2010s. That would be better for NDSU than the MAC (which is trash)

[Laker]

When NDSU was in the NCC, I heard a lot of talk about them moving up from Bison fans.

Now that NDSU is in FCS, the only people that I hear pushing for them to move up are fans of their opponents.

Until I hear a groundswell from the people who buy tickets and donate $$$ I won't take moving to FBS seriously. What would be more likely to make them move would be restrictions at the FCS level. Or starting an entirely new level to include upper level FCS teams and Group of 5 teams.

[Winterborn]

This not realistic on any number of levels.

First, conferences follow a food chain when it comes for expansion. The Big 10 doesn't look for teams in Conference USA, for instance. The order is:

Power 5
AAC or MWC
C-USA
MAC
Sun Belt
I-AA/FCS

The AAC has zero interest in a team at the I-AA level (read=James Madison). They will look first to Conference USA, and down the line.

NDSU is in the same place Delaware was (or still is). There's little demand to move up and it's not worth the expense. Unless it's the MWC, no other conference has the geographic continuity to want to play games in Fargo.

As to the idea that it would take $500 million, construction costs aren't that high in ND. An expansion of the Fargodome could be done for less than half that, but again, for what purpose? If the MWC isn't calling, take the 20K every week and be happy with it. In one sense, that's what Old Dominion did. Foreman Field sat 22,000, they spent $67 million on a tear down/rebuild and it still seats 22K, can sell out every time, and they don't need 50,000 seats (and 25,000 empty seats) to be a quality program.

It has been my understanding that the Dome can't be significantly expanded due to how it was built and the design. It is basically what it is unless you want to tear it down and start fresh.

[BisonBacker]

It has been my understanding that the Dome can't be significantly expanded due to how it was built and the design. It is basically what it is unless you want to tear it down and start fresh.

Thank to the Moron Jon Lindgren who was the Fargo Mayor at the time the Dome was being discussed and plans to build it were put together. Originally it was supposed to be a 27k facility and the dip**** Lindgren and his kronies killed that.

[Mattymc727]

I don't want NDSU to leave in order save the FCS, this run will end at some point (or someone will stop it for a period). But I honestly think NDSU can compete with the big boys, and Id like to see them try. I guess as long as teams like Oregon are willing to try and set up a match, that will be good enough. That is unless NDSU actually wins again, and will never get another FBS invite as a member of the FCS.

[A&T AGGIE96]

A national title lasts forever whereas a Cotton Bowl is not a natth.

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National titles last forever but because you are FCS nobody really cares.

It’s a tough spot to be in NDSU has won a bunch of titles but can’t use that as a spring board.

Here in NC, App State has become all the rage...winning a bowl game, ranked in the top 25 nationally in the FBS, and kicking UNC’s butt...

They wouldn’t trade that for all the national tittles they have in the FCS.

When UNC Charlotte decides to add football they always had the intention of being FBS despite all the lumps they would take along the way. Now they are positioning themselves as a rival to App and want regular cracks at the “big four” ACC school. Didn’t they play Clemson this year? Not a single FCS championship...and they don’t care.

I hope NDSU finds a way to move up...if their goal is to win national titles in football they got nothing to prove at this level.

Moving up in the end will be the only way for them to stay relevant.

[Bisonator]

The other problem is NDSU isn’t going anywhere without SDSU. The two have been a combo deal since moving to D1.
I do think there is some truth to this as far as the administrations from each school stand. Let's face it if you are going make a move you need some type of scheduling alliance. I think at some point the Dakota schools may look to FBS as independants if nothing else to get their foot in the door. Especially if FCS starts going the way of D2 back when they started cutting scholarships. No way in hell is NDSU or SDSU going backwards like that again. Ideally the Dakota's would join with enough MVFC or BSC schools to make a scheduling alliance which takes a big sting out of being an independent. Eventually they would all join an FBS conference or form a new one. This may be a pipe dream but I think it has merit years from now under the right circumstances.

[walliver]

Is NDSU actually attractive to any current G5 conference?
1) Goegraphically, NDSU is an outlier for every FBS conference. This means increased travel expenses for every team.
2) It is a small market. No new TV revenue
3) Fargo weather is not enticing in the winter.
4) NDSU would immediately dominate the lower tier G5 conferences.
Even among P5 teams, the B1G, SEC, ACC, PAC-12 are non-starters. The Big12 would more likely poach the AAC.
NDSU's only short-term chance for FBS is to go independent and play Liberty and NMSU twice a year each. And that is IMHO a really bad option.

The bottom line is that FBS is not a meritocracy, and the rest of us will just have to find a way to beat them.

[walliver]

National titles last forever but because you are FCS nobody really cares.

It’s a tough spot to be in NDSU has won a bunch of titles but can’t use that as a spring board.

Here in NC, App State has become all the rage...winning a bowl game, ranked in the top 25 nationally in the FBS, and kicking UNC’s butt...

They wouldn’t trade that for all the national tittles they have in the FCS.

When UNC Charlotte decides to add football they always had the intention of being FBS despite all the lumps they would take along the way. Now they are positioning themselves as a rival to App and want regular cracks at the “big four” ACC school. Didn’t they play Clemson this year? Not a single FCS championship...and they don’t care.

I hope NDSU finds a way to move up...if their goal is to win national titles in football they got nothing to prove at this level.

Moving up in the end will be the only way for them to stay relevant.
Wofford also played Clemson and was more competitive. Against UNCC, Clemson played 127 players. Etienne and Lawrence were pulled in the first quarter. UNCC doesn't care about FCS Championships. They just don't care about football.

[Gil Dobie]

What if NDSU never starts winning only 1 title per decade, this will all be forgotten. Only an injury or 2 away from not winning this year.

[Professor Chaos]

Is NDSU actually attractive to any current G5 conference?
1) Goegraphically, NDSU is an outlier for every FBS conference. This means increased travel expenses for every team.
2) It is a small market. No new TV revenue
3) Fargo weather is not enticing in the winter.
4) NDSU would immediately dominate the lower tier G5 conferences.
Even among P5 teams, the B1G, SEC, ACC, PAC-12 are non-starters. The Big12 would more likely poach the AAC.
NDSU's only short-term chance for FBS is to go independent and play Liberty and NMSU twice a year each. And that is IMHO a really bad option.

The bottom line is that FBS is not a meritocracy, and the rest of us will just have to find a way to beat them.
Yup, and these are the same reasons why moving up as a conference with the likes of SDSU, USD, UND, Montana, Montana St, etc will be a non-starter as well since the G5 doesn't want their CFP money/NY6 bowl opportunities spread out even further. It's very likely going to take a major shake-up like the P5 breaking away leaving the G5 in limbo for NDSU to move up and when they do so it'll probably be with one or several regional partners.

[ST_Lawson]

Yeah, I'm sure it would. I don't have any number to reference in comparison to G5 schools but I didn't think the maybe 1M population center between ND and western MN isn't big enough to attract G5 conferences from either a TV market perspective or a population center/recruiting perspective.

Btw, on the topic of Rutgers... Dan Patrick mentioned on his show yesterday that one of his guys called into a Vegas sports book to check and if NDSU played Rutgers on a neutral field in the "Relegation Bowl" that NDSU would be 21 point favorites.

I think it's plenty big enough for G5. Not saying there aren't a buttload of other issues with the idea, but I don't think market size is that big of a problem. Fargo by itself is bigger than Champaign/Urbana (where U of Illinois is located). U of I also has Chicago a few hours away, but Chicago isn't much of a college football town, plus it's more like a "every Big 10 team and also Notre Dame" town, so the pie is split 100 different ways.

[Silenoz]

The bottom line is that FBS is not a meritocracy, and the rest of us will just have to find a way to beat them.
Spoiler alert: Your tiny school with no funds, limited support, and very different culture isn't going to do it. Neither are 100 other programs. That's not an insult or supposed to take anything away from Wofford. But they are Alabama and you are... let's say Georgia Tech. It's just the reality of college football.

On the other hand, Montana State, SDSU, James Madison, and maybe a handful of others could do it by building something special. I don't know what, but you basically need to be ahead of the curve (like how NDSU was with going against the grain with a power run game) and then you need to build it and build it and build it. And then spend money, and make good hires, and not have any scandals, and so forth. And be very lucky.

Someone go study Wisconsin Whitewater and what they did because that's the closest analogy. And even then, Union's dominance pailed to NDSU. This is uncharted territory.

[F'N Hawks]

Have to remember there are a bunch of other sports/teams to think about when this move is being considered. The existing schools need to now send their softball, volleyball, basketball teams and such to Fargo. Much like the Big Sky teams had to do with UND. $$$.

[Mattymc727]

I don't think an AAC offer for football only is that farfetched to be honest.

Having a good football team in your conference, one that makes bowls frequently (which NDSU probably would), brings in more money and TV deals..

[JacksFan40]

I don't think an AAC offer for football only is that farfetched to be honest.

Having a good football team in your conference, one that makes bowls frequently (which NDSU probably would), brings in more money and TV deals..
It's not likely since the AAC teams are in huge markets. If the AAC adds anybody it'll be Charlotte or App State. If they go West it'll be with Boise or BYU. I don't see them inviting a team straight from the FCS, same with the MWC.

[Mattymc727]

It's not likely since the AAC teams are in huge markets. If the AAC adds anybody it'll be Charlotte or App State. If they go West it'll be with Boise or BYU. I don't see them inviting a team straight from the FCS, same with the MWC.

Why cant you count MN as part of the NDSU market? Seems like all of their fans live in MN now anyway...

[BEAR]

Why would NDSU want to be FBS? They gain nothing and spend millions.
It makes no sense.

I heard that said about UCA going from DII to DI. It helped in more ways than I can count. xthumbsupx Just in a different way than anyone expected.

[TheKingpin28]

It's not likely since the AAC teams are in huge markets. If the AAC adds anybody it'll be Charlotte or App State. If they go West it'll be with Boise or BYU. I don't see them inviting a team straight from the FCS, same with the MWC.BYU is a non-starter. Why do you think Liberty is an independent?

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[DFW HOYA]

BYU is a non-starter. Why do you think Liberty is an independent?


BYU has advantages (for now) as an independent. When or if that changes, the AAC becomes an option, just as when circumstances changed for UConn, the Big East was an option.

The same can be said for Army, less so for UMass.

[TheKingpin28]

BYU has advantages (for now) as an independent. When or if that changes, the AAC becomes an option, just as when circumstances changed for UConn, the Big East was an option.

The same can be said for Army, less so for UMass.Well when you have 110 million sitting around and not going to where it should and have millions of people who do not question, it's easy to see why they have an advantage. Liberty has a similar advantage as well. At the end of the day, it's hard to tell a school, hey you cant play us in basketball on a sunday, ever.

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[uni88]

BYU has advantages (for now) as an independent. When or if that changes, the AAC becomes an option, just as when circumstances changed for UConn, the Big East was an option.

The same can be said for Army, less so for UMass.

If things change, I think BYU would be more likely to rejoin the MWC and I don't think Boise leaves the MWC for the AAC. The AAC isn't much better than the MWC and the extra travel and loss of rivalries wouldn't be justified.

[jacksfan29!]

If things change, I think BYU would be more likely to rejoin the MWC and I don't think Boise leaves the MWC for the AAC. The AAC isn't much better than the MWC and the extra travel and loss of rivalries wouldn't be justified.

Boise will never leave for the AAC. The only way Boise leaves the MWC is if the PAC12 come calling.

NDSU have no place to go right now. Why so many want them gone is beyond me. They aren't going anywhere unless a structural change is made which the P5 leagues split from G5, taking the MWC and AAC with them. At that point the two or three the top FCS leagues interesting in spending the money to fully fund their programs can move into a division with like minded schools.

[Bisonoline]

https://247sports.com/college/north-dakota-state/Article/brake-fbs-question-133770261/

Bottom line-----

Now back comes reality – NDSU does not have a conference invite. There is no indication NDSU is on the radar of any FBS conference, and NDSU seems fine with that. It should be, because there are not many opportunities in FBS that give Bison football an unquestioned upgrade on its current position of primacy in FCS. While the Bison pull in less revenue in terms of bulk dollars, there is far more bang for the buck in FCS than in most of the Group of Five. The fact of the matter is, NDSU has broad autonomy and a perennial national championship contender at the FCS level. Surrendering that autonomy for anything that isn’t a massive, sweeping upgrade is a bad trade for Bison football.
(https://247sports.com/college/north-dakota-state/Article/brake-fbs-question-133770261/)

[Laker]

https://247sports.com/college/north-dakota-state/Article/brake-fbs-question-133770261/

Good article. Covers the whole gamut.

[ST_Lawson]

NDSU have no place to go right now. Why so many want them gone is beyond me. They aren't going anywhere unless a structural change is made which the P5 leagues split from G5, taking the MWC and AAC with them. At that point the two or three the top FCS leagues interesting in spending the money to fully fund their programs can move into a division with like minded schools.

This is my feeling too. I don't want them to go personally, but it's possible if the current structure implodes and the P5 says bye bye to the NCAA or forces them to restructure DI so that they become kinda their own semi-pro college-affiliated league. At that point you could see lots of G5 scrambling and restructuring, and I think NDSU, SDSU, Montana, and Montana State would be ripe for joining some of the other western former G5 schools in a league.

Still, a pretty unlikely scenario in the near term considering the P5 seems fairly happy with the current setup that is able to almost entirely exclude the G5 from the playoff and "New Years Bowl" games.

[NDB]

In my opinion NDSU would/should do everything in their power to make the jump if the MWC or AAC invites them. If it's the MAC... no thanks.


This.

The MAC is a non-starter. More money for less upside than what we currently have.

The Mountain West would be good as we have institutional peers in that conference. But I don't see it happening.

[Gil Dobie]

Thank to the Moron Jon Lindgren who was the Fargo Mayor at the time the Dome was being discussed and plans to build it were put together. Originally it was supposed to be a 27k facility and the dip**** Lindgren and his kronies killed that.

Lindgren taught Econ at NDSU. It's not an exciting topic to begin with, but he could put you to sleep.

Move the G5 back to FCS where they belong.

[BEAR]

This.

The MAC is a non-starter. More money for less upside than what we currently have.

The Mountain West would be good as we have institutional peers in that conference. But I don't see it happening.

I'm willing to bet half of the Mountain West schools average below 20,000 at their games..and that's reported attendance. xlolx I'm sure Boise State, Air Force, San Diego State probably are 25k+ but schools like San Jose and the like are probably below 20K.

[Preferred Walk-On]

If people want NDSU gone, we need the following:

-250-300 million for a new football stadium

-Double and/or triple our athletic budget overnight. This means we need to spend about 3-5 million on Men's Basketball, make Women's basketball competitive, add men's soccer, and swimming and diving for both men and women so we can make olympic sports more eye-appealing.

-Increase FCOA to all sports

-Rebuild the basketball stadium into something that is not an abomination.

-Build an Indoor Practice Facility for all sports with a fully staffed health and nuturion team.

Did I miss anything?

Based off of all of this, NDSU would need a minimum of 500 million to make this all work and make it viable. The MWC is the least I could see NDSU settling for but without a viable option for national title opportunity, it's on the never going to happen list.

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Coaching salaries?

[TheKingpin28]

Coaching salaries?I guess that was part of doubling and/or tripling the athletic budget but yes, it's not a cheap option to do.

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[gsf23nd]

Both the previous AD in Gene Taylor and the current AD in Matt Larsen have both said that NDSU wants to play for championships. The only way I see NDSU moving up is if the P5 splits to do their own thing, and the G5 creates it's own playoff. I don't think you will see NDSU making a serious push to move up unless that happens or rumors of that happening start popping up. Until then, I think the powers that be at NDSU are happy with where they are at.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Lindgren taught Econ at NDSU. It's not an exciting topic to begin with, but he could put you to sleep.

Move the G5 back to FCS where they belong.

I took his Econ class. Never went to the lectures and only showed up to take the tests. Got a B. Econ was boring as heck.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Coaching salaries?
very good point .. would have to triple or quadruple that budget at least, especially if they continue their winning.

[Grizzlies82]

Ultimately every discussion like this gets hung up on the money. The initial cost to move up is HUGE, the ongoing costs are also significant. This is without expanding your stadium. While it may be desirable there is no need to do so. So forget the stadium expansion. You still need a Harold Hamm type to make any jump. Don't think he is in yet.

Then geography is working against North Dakota State. The best fit would be the MAC and even that is not a good fit. Though this is the most likely FBS conference to include NDSU. The Mountain West is just too far away. This is the reason the Big Sky didn't want NDSU when they first moved up. Those MW schools won't want to add a Fargo trip to their schedules. You're too far from EVERYONE. It isn't going to happen.

Bottom line is as Prof Chaos and others pointed out; Ultimately the "Big Dogs" will kick the little dogs to the curb and the college football world will get reshuffled. Don't know if that is a decade away, or more, but that day is coming. Then and only then could some of the FCS schools look to 'step up' as the mutts of FBS step back down. This will be the new 1-AA / FCS division (though with a cool new name so as to not offend the mutts). The FCS schools who don't step up will consolidate back with the Div II schools. The timing of all this is a question mark, though the ultimate outcome isn't.

In the meantime, go ahead and speculate. It is officially the dead of winter and there are many months before legit football talk returns.

[mvfcfan]

I don't want NDSU to move up. I just want some FCS schools (preferably MVFC) to step it up and beat them. They aren't invincible. If the MVFC stepped it up and beat them then maybe we could see how they do on the road in the playoffs.

[NDSU1980]

Thank to the Moron Jon Lindgren who was the Fargo Mayor at the time the Dome was being discussed and plans to build it were put together. Originally it was supposed to be a 27k facility and the dip**** Lindgren and his kronies killed that.
Actually it was an idiot named Steve Linke that caused more problems than Lingren. Linke was obsessed with destroying the dome from day one, and as soon as it was built he left town, never to return.

[Grizzlies82]

I don't want NDSU to move up. I just want some FCS schools (preferably MVFC) to step it up and beat them. They aren't invincible. If the MVFC stepped it up and beat them then maybe we could see how they do on the road in the playoffs.


I fully agree with this. Things are unlikely to change until the MVFC schools start to hand the Bison a loss or two every year.

NDSU continually getting a #1 or #2 seed (with the accompanying home field advantage) is a very fast track to Frisco. They have had some great teams. Still it's highly likely some never would have made the Championship game if they had been playing quarter final and semi-final games on the road instead of Fargo.

[thebootfitter]

For those talking about the size of the media market... I have to wonder if some of the media attention that NDSU has been getting over the past few years has given them somewhat of a "national" following. I know NDSU is a more recognized brand now than it was ten years ago. By far. If they beat Oregon and continue the trend of nattys, I could see them becoming even more of a media darling such that the geographic area and population of their immediate media market may be less of a concern.

[thebootfitter]

I fully agree with this. Things are unlikely to change until the MVFC schools start to hand the Bison a loss or two every year.

NDSU continually getting a #1 or #2 seed (with the accompanying home field advantage) is a very fast track to Frisco. They have had some great teams. Still it's highly likely some never would have made the Championship game if they had been playing quarter final and semi-final games on the road instead of Fargo.
Maybe... but they've lost more games at home in this stretch than they have on the road. Hard to say.

Also -- outside of 2013, 2018, & 2019, the MVFC has handed NDSU a loss or two each year.

[The Yo Show]

In my opinion NDSU would/should do everything in their power to make the jump if the MWC or AAC invites them. If it's the MAC... no thanks.

Agreed. Heck going forward, the MAC might not stay in the FBS unless some sort of conference realignment happens. Schools can't afford to keep hemorrhaging money on football in the MAC. With the MAC, I have no doubt that NDSU would win it without trying. AAC would be an interesting invite, but I don't think they seem to be looking for a team now?
Along those lines, the Big XII isn't looking to add, but that might be the most likely Power 5 add all things considered. I could potentially see the Big XII add two schools to get back to 12 schools and create divisions and base the conference championship game off the division winners. I think they would try to add Cincy and maybe NDSU if that was the case.

Hypothetically speaking if the Big XII came calling, would NDSU answer that call?

[Silenoz]

Invitation aside, and finances aside, and SDSU aside, and other sports aside...

Pending a scandal, or some other program figuring out some paradigm-changing way to run a program, we can safely say the Bison should be favored for 3 more titles, minimum. Maybe an indefinite amount considering JMU is their only real threat and God knows how long they stick in FCS. Stay, and never lose. That's the allure.

If they move do move up though... what are the odds they're up and rolling within a year or two? That they are able to get the Gophers or Cyclones into Fargo? That they're beating P5 teams every year? That they're the next Boise State? That they'll beat one of the best players in history in one of the best postseason games in history?

Maybe we'll never know.

And this isn't from a Griz fan who wants them gone, because I very much believe our school's issues and finances have given our program a limited lifespan with a lower ceiling. So it ain't gonna affect me soon enough.

[thebootfitter]

Hypothetically speaking if the Big XII came calling, would NDSU answer that call?
Football only somehow? I don't think there's any question. All sports? I think they'd find a way to make it happen.

But that's a pretty big hypothetical. Monkeys will fly out of my butt before it happens.


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[The Yo Show]

Yeah it's not likely. In any case, I like the bison being FCS, as well as in the same conference as my team so hope you don't move up anyway!

[Sader87]

No one cares.....it's 1-AA football...NDSU could win 18 of 19 titles and it wouldn't matter....it is what it is.. a nice level but no one cares who wins the title at this level

[Bisonoline]

I don't want NDSU to move up. I just want some FCS schools (preferably MVFC) to step it up and beat them. They aren't invincible. If the MVFC stepped it up and beat them then maybe we could see how they do on the road in the playoffs.

We play on the road in Frisco.

[Bisonoline]

No one cares.....it's 1-AA football...NDSU could win 18 of 19 titles and it wouldn't matter....it is what it is.. a nice level but no one cares who wins the title at this level

2.7 million watched the game. Not bad for a thing nobody cares about.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I don't want NDSU to move up. I just want some FCS schools (preferably MVFC) to step it up and beat them. They aren't invincible. If the MVFC stepped it up and beat them then maybe we could see how they do on the road in the playoffs.



I thought you were one of the guys that thought NDSU should get kicked out of the Valley??

[citdog]

Damn this topic is beat all to hell everywhere. People whine "NDSU is too good they should move up". No the rest of us should get better. If I was running a program I'd do everything NDSU does because everything they do is first class and right on.

[centennial]

The easiest way for NDSU to move up is get a waiver like Liberty. Then find the P5 teams nearby who want to have 2 for 1 games, yearly schedule Mountain West and MAC. Scheduling will be really hard, might need to play 2 FCS teams every year. On the stadium front they can build an inflatable stadium for only $100-150 million that will seat 25-28k.

All this is a really hard sell for NDSU and Fargo. ESPN/ Fox will need to heavily support NDSU with $3-4 million a year for TV rights. It's a lot of hypotheticals, I just don't see it happening easily. Plus if NDSU has a P5/ G5 hybrid schedule it makes it very easy for coaches to get stolen. It takes one bad coach and everything goes off the rails. And then NDSU is no longer the ESPN darling.

[Gil Dobie]

This is the reason the Big Sky didn't want NDSU when they first moved up.

What I was told from people in the Montana system, that several schools, not in Montana, didn't want NDSU, because they were too good. The Big Sky later added UND and USD.

[Gil Dobie]

I fully agree with this. Things are unlikely to change until the MVFC schools start to hand the Bison a loss or two every year.

NDSU continually getting a #1 or #2 seed (with the accompanying home field advantage) is a very fast track to Frisco. They have had some great teams. Still it's highly likely some never would have made the Championship game if they had been playing quarter final and semi-final games on the road instead of Fargo.

Home games help, as they did with Montana 31-7 at home in the playoffs, 3-15 away from WaGriz. Numbers are probably similar with other teams.

[F'N Hawks]

What I was told from people in the Montana system, that several schools, not in Montana, didn't want NDSU, because they were too good. The Big Sky later added UND and USD.

Of course that's what you heard.

[Gil Dobie]

Of course that's what you heard.

Actually one is a UND grad that was working in Montana at the time, and knew some of the people involved in the decision.

[Bisonator]

Agreed. Heck going forward, the MAC might not stay in the FBS unless some sort of conference realignment happens. Schools can't afford to keep hemorrhaging money on football in the MAC. With the MAC, I have no doubt that NDSU would win it without trying. AAC would be an interesting invite, but I don't think they seem to be looking for a team now?
Along those lines, the Big XII isn't looking to add, but that might be the most likely Power 5 add all things considered. I could potentially see the Big XII add two schools to get back to 12 schools and create divisions and base the conference championship game off the division winners. I think they would try to add Cincy and maybe NDSU if that was the case.

Hypothetically speaking if the Big XII came calling, would NDSU answer that call?
Faster then you can say "Bye". Not going to happen, at least not under the current climate.

[Grizzlies82]

What I was told from people in the Montana system, that several schools, not in Montana, didn't want NDSU, because they were too good. The Big Sky later added UND and USD.


No doubt that is correct but distance was a real issue too. The nearest Big Sky school is probably in Bozeman at what... maybe 750 miles? That is the closest.

The attempt to add USD and UND was regret in not inviting in ND and SD States earlier. Though look at what the Big Sky has done. They invited schools in larger media markets that essentially had no local followers (Portland, Sacramento, Denver...). In my opinion they have been fools as they over expanded and frequently made poor decisions

[Bisonator]

Of course that's what you heard.
Terry Wanless had a lot to do with it. NDSU actually owes a lot to that damn fawker. They should probably send him a championship ring some time. xlolx

[mvfcfan]

Would NDSU turn down a MAC invite? NIU and WMU have made major bowl games from that conference recently. They might even get some 2 for ones with power schools once in a while if they were in the MAC.

[TheKingpin28]

No doubt that is correct but distance was a real issue too. The nearest Big Sky school is probably in Bozeman at what... maybe 750 miles? That is the closest.

The attempt to add USD and UND was regret in not inviting in ND and SD States earlier. Though look at what the Big Sky has done. They invited schools in larger media markets that essentially had no local followers (Portland, Sacramento, Denver...). In my opinion they have been fools as they over expanded and frequently made poor decisionsWith Dixie State being added as well as Tarleton, I wouldn't mind seeing a split up of the conference like this, even though I know it will not happen.

Big Sky:
EWU
PSU
UM
MSU
ID
ISUo
UCD
Sac St
Cal Poly

Southwest:
WSU
SUU
Dixie St
NAU
UNC
Tarleton St
ACU
UIW
(9th team)

Southland:
SHSU
HBU
Lamar
McNeese St
NSU
SELA
SFA
UCA
Northwestern St

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[TheKingpin28]

Would NDSU turn down a MAC invite? NIU and WMU have made major bowl games from that conference recently. They might even get some 2 for ones with power schools once in a while if they were in the MAC.I would only hope so. If not, it would be a major step down from the MVFC

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[Professor]

Big 10 would only be the conference they would jump for

[that guy]

Would NDSU turn down a MAC invite? NIU and WMU have made major bowl games from that conference recently. They might even get some 2 for ones with power schools once in a while if they were in the MAC.
No one wants midweek Maction.:(

[TheKingpin28]

Big 10 would only be the conference they would jump forIf the Big12 also took SDSU, I'd have to think NDSU jumps, but knowing the legislative branch of ND, they'd do everything in their power to prevent NDSU from ever leaving GFCC again.

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[mvfcfan]

I just wonder because EMU went 6-6 this year but got a 2 million dollar payout for being in it. A NY6 bowl pays 4 million. Not sure if the money goes directly to the team or gets split up among the conference. Either way that is a lot of money that could be won. NDSU could also use the MAC as a stepping stone until something better came along.

[TheKingpin28]

I just wonder because EMU went 6-6 this year but got a 2 million dollar payout for being in it. A NY6 bowl pays 4 million. Not sure if the money goes directly to the team or gets split up among the conference. Either way that is a lot of money that could be won. NDSU could also use the MAC as a stepping stone until something better came along.Wednesday Night Football runs tailgating and the experience. It's hard to convince people who drive 3+ hours away to fo to Fargo on Wednesday night and have to work the next day.

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[Hammersmith]

Would NDSU turn down a MAC invite? NIU and WMU have made major bowl games from that conference recently. They might even get some 2 for ones with power schools once in a while if they were in the MAC.

I disagree with the other Bison fans. If the MAC offers, you take it. Not because the MAC is a step up or because it would be a long-term home, but because it gets your foot in the FBS door. An NDSU with an FBS track record(even if it's in the MAC) is more attractive than an NDSU without it. It would also give NDSU a better chance at the Big 12 in a situation where they're gutted by the Pac 12/others and desperate for new members to survive. (Again, not talking about the current Big 12, but an effectively G5 Big 12 after all their best schools are gone; very unlikely, but not impossible.)

[WestCoastAggie]

I disagree with the other Bison fans. If the MAC offers, you take it. Not because the MAC is a step up or because it would be a long-term home, but because it gets your foot in the FBS door. An NDSU with an FBS track record(even if it's in the MAC) is more attractive than an NDSU without it. It would also give NDSU a better chance at the Big 12 in a situation where they're gutted by the Pac 12/others and desperate for new members to survive. (Again, not talking about the current Big 12, but an effectively G5 Big 12 after all their best schools are gone; very unlikely, but not impossible.)

It also opens the door for a shot at a New Year's 6 Bowl Game. The only caveat is that that travel could increase for all sports moving form the Summit to the MAC.

[SUPharmacist]

I disagree with the other Bison fans. If the MAC offers, you take it. Not because the MAC is a step up or because it would be a long-term home, but because it gets your foot in the FBS door. An NDSU with an FBS track record(even if it's in the MAC) is more attractive than an NDSU without it. It would also give NDSU a better chance at the Big 12 in a situation where they're gutted by the Pac 12/others and desperate for new members to survive. (Again, not talking about the current Big 12, but an effectively G5 Big 12 after all their best schools are gone; very unlikely, but not impossible.)

I used to agree with this, but I just don't think MACtion works for NDSU. If they are able to quickly parlay it into an invite to a different conference maybe it is ok, but otherwise those midweek games are killers for the fans. Maybe you can grow the TV viewership in the short term, but there are a lot of fans from rural ND and the Twin Cities that now can't make the games and the crowds will suffer. If they don't transition to another conference I think even the increased TV viewership decreases as fans realize the MAC doesn't get them a path to a title or to marquee bowl games often enough. On average MAC teams may be slightly better than MVFC teams, but the increased travel to attend away games means less interaction with opposing fan bases (can't see many MAC fans traveling to Fargo, and while there are solid schools in the MAC I do not think they have sizeable alumni bases overlapping with NDSU in Minneapolis or Denver where you can get those fun workplace rivalries). Without this interaction rivalries do not grow.

Sure the team can maybe make some good bowls, but that still depends on how things go in the P5 and the other G5 conferences (if there is a solid team in the MWC or AAC they are getting the good bowl) and transitioning to another conference is still a challenge because Fargo continues to be a geographic outlier. If we can continue to get games on ESPN/ESPN2 and possibly the championship on ABC in the FCS I would rather do that. If we go FBS I would like to get some P5 teams to come to Fargo on occasion and I think that would be rare in the MAC. If P5 home games are that rare I would want a better conference slate like MWC or American (not likely to get an invite). Which leads me back to what many have said, if a P5-G5 split happens NDSU needs to move to the same level as the G5, if not I do not see NDSU getting an invite from a conference that would make the move worth it. If NDSU wants to move up, they need to maintain close to the level they are at in football and massively raise their profile in Mens and Womens basketball. With the low likelihood of an FBS move I would wonder if it may be worth exploring adding D1 hockey. North Dakota and Minnesota are crazy about it and with a good coaching hire they could likely field a competitive team, if they could get hockey games in Denver and Minneapolis you can keep those alumni bases engaged.

[JacksFan40]

The Big 10 will never invite NDSU as they seem pretty happy with bringing in big market teams like Rutgers and Maryland rather then actually good teams.

The Big 12 will only happen if the PAC-12 and SEC take away the Texas schools and the Oklahoma teams. More specifically if the Sooners and Longhorns leave. Even then I’d bet they’d just go after UCF or Boise.

The only realistic conferences NDSU can get into are the MAC and American, the MWC is already full.

As I’ve stated previously NDSU won’t go anywhere without SDSU.

[nodak651]

I used to agree with this, but I just don't think MACtion works for NDSU. If they are able to quickly parlay it into an invite to a different conference maybe it is ok, but otherwise those midweek games are killers for the fans. Maybe you can grow the TV viewership in the short term, but there are a lot of fans from rural ND and the Twin Cities that now can't make the games and the crowds will suffer. If they don't transition to another conference I think even the increased TV viewership decreases as fans realize the MAC doesn't get them a path to a title or to marquee bowl games often enough. On average MAC teams may be slightly better than MVFC teams, but the increased travel to attend away games means less interaction with opposing fan bases (can't see many MAC fans traveling to Fargo, and while there are solid schools in the MAC I do not think they have sizeable alumni bases overlapping with NDSU in Minneapolis or Denver where you can get those fun workplace rivalries). Without this interaction rivalries do not grow.

Sure the team can maybe make some good bowls, but that still depends on how things go in the P5 and the other G5 conferences (if there is a solid team in the MWC or AAC they are getting the good bowl) and transitioning to another conference is still a challenge because Fargo continues to be a geographic outlier. If we can continue to get games on ESPN/ESPN2 and possibly the championship on ABC in the FCS I would rather do that. If we go FBS I would like to get some P5 teams to come to Fargo on occasion and I think that would be rare in the MAC. If P5 home games are that rare I would want a better conference slate like MWC or American (not likely to get an invite). Which leads me back to what many have said, if a P5-G5 split happens NDSU needs to move to the same level as the G5, if not I do not see NDSU getting an invite from a conference that would make the move worth it. If NDSU wants to move up, they need to maintain close to the level they are at in football and massively raise their profile in Mens and Womens basketball. With the low likelihood of an FBS move I would wonder if it may be worth exploring adding D1 hockey. North Dakota and Minnesota are crazy about it and with a good coaching hire they could likely field a competitive team, if they could get hockey games in Denver and Minneapolis you can keep those alumni bases engaged.

Completely agree. What's the point of moving up if it's bad for the fans. Say NDSU makes more money, so what, because the whole purpose of athletics is to keep alumni engaged, and that's what the FCS playoffs do for NDSU. IMO, NDSU to the MAC would probably end same the way Gopher Hockey to Big 10 did - killed regionally rivalries and fan interest. I hope it never happens, and I highly doubt it ever does, but NDSU could be very successful in hockey. They already have a great 5k arena in town where the Fargo Force plays. Thousands of NDSU fans drive up to UND every weekend already anyways for hockey, so there are already alumni that are hockey fans, and I'm sure most would probably prefer to cheer for the Bison and at the same time save the trip up to Grand Forks. I just don't see how anyone can be happy about playing in bowl games - they don't mean anything! Say you win a big bowl game, who cares if it isn't the championship? They are just exhibition games with tons of marketing, and I think most Bison fans would feel the same way. Also, say NDSU does make more money at FBS, with the current geography issues, that extra money goes straight to title 9 and increased travel. IMO, the best way for NDSU to go FBS is with the MVFC teams, whenever the opportunity eventually arises. The fan bases and ticket sales at schools in the Dakotas and Montana are already better than most of the MAC.

[uni88]

The Big 10 will never invite NDSU as they seem pretty happy with bringing in big market teams like Rutgers and Maryland rather then actually good teams.

The Big 12 will only happen if the PAC-12 and SEC take away the Texas schools and the Oklahoma teams. More specifically if the Sooners and Longhorns leave. Even then I’d bet they’d just go after UCF or Boise.

The only realistic conferences NDSU can get into are the MAC and American, the MWC is already full.

As I’ve stated previously NDSU won’t go anywhere without SDSU.

The Big 10 is interested in big markets but they're also interested in academics/research and other sports. NDSU is a good school with a great football program but their academics/research are nowhere near Big 10 standards and their other sports while improving aren't in the same class either.

You're right about the Big 12, they're going to poach from the MWC or AAC not an FCS moveup. The AAC would then probably poach from Conference USA before considering NDSU.

[Nor Eastern]

The Sun Belt is familiar with FB only members (Idaho and NMSU). Since NDSU would not benefit from MACtion on Tuesdays and Wednesdays they should try and find a tag team partner and go Sun Belt way. Schedule wise only one midweek game at home (which would be on ESPN2 or ESPNU). Airplanes would have to be taken for all away games in the MAC. Which means the Sun Belt FB would actually be cheaper on the AD as a whole than joining MAC as all sports members. Take NDSU and Montana and pitch them as a pair of FB only members that would be willing to disregard the ESPN payout in lieu of the CFP payout and NY6 and additional bowl access.


Edit: That is if they even wanted to go FBS at all. No reason to.

[mvfcfan]

I have to lol at the Big Ten and Big 12 suggestions. The MVC doesn't even want them (which is dumb, but still).

Also Sun Belt kicked NMSU and Idaho because of travel. They aren't adding NDSU.

[mvfcfan]

If the WAC brought back football and added all 4 Dakota schools, both Montana schools, Idaho, and NMSU (who is WAC already) that might work and be the best case scenario.

[SUPharmacist]

The Sun Belt is familiar with FB only members (Idaho and NMSU). Since NDSU would not benefit from MACtion on Tuesdays and Wednesdays they should try and find a tag team partner and go Sun Belt way. Schedule wise only one midweek game at home (which would be on ESPN2 or ESPNU). Airplanes would have to be taken for all away games in the MAC. Which means the Sun Belt FB would actually be cheaper on the AD as a whole than joining MAC as all sports members. Take NDSU and Montana and pitch them as a pair of FB only members that would be willing to disregard the ESPN payout in lieu of the CFP payout and NY6 and additional bowl access.


Edit: That is if they even wanted to go FBS at all. No reason to.

This would be an interesting proposition, but I do not think it brings enough value to NDSU/Montana or the Sun Belt. There could be some cool games with GA Southern and App St, but I do not know how much those teams care about NDSU/Montana anymore and I do not think the rest of the Sun Belt cares at all about FCS powers including recent move-up Coastal Carolina. Additionally NDSU/Montana would never be paired together like this. If NDSU moves up there is a small chance they could pair up with SDSU (despite SDSU being a good football program they do not have the brand like NDSU, although they bring much better basketball programs if it were more than a football affiliate invite). But, the state of North Dakota will be very reluctant to let NDSU separate from UND again and I think the state of Montana also would be reluctant to allow their programs to separate (to say nothing of the same scenario in South Dakota). Short of an MVFC-Big Sky hybrid conference move-up I do not see any of these schools going anywhere. Could a group of solid FCS schools revive the WAC, and if they could would anyone want to?

[Grizalltheway]

The Sun Belt is familiar with FB only members (Idaho and NMSU). Since NDSU would not benefit from MACtion on Tuesdays and Wednesdays they should try and find a tag team partner and go Sun Belt way. Schedule wise only one midweek game at home (which would be on ESPN2 or ESPNU). Airplanes would have to be taken for all away games in the MAC. Which means the Sun Belt FB would actually be cheaper on the AD as a whole than joining MAC as all sports members. Take NDSU and Montana and pitch them as a pair of FB only members that would be willing to disregard the ESPN payout in lieu of the CFP payout and NY6 and additional bowl access.


Edit: That is if they even wanted to go FBS at all. No reason to.

Montana at least is in no position to even think about moving up right now. Total enrollment is hovering just above 10,000, and I don't think overall finances are in great shape, either.

[Nor Eastern]

Montana at least is in no position to even think about moving up right now. Total enrollment is hovering just above 10,000, and I don't think overall finances are in great shape, either.

Montana was was just an example of a school to be paired with NDSU in that scenario. A pair of FB only members would have to add to the SBC's OOC win record otherwise there's not point in accepting a FB only member.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What I don't get is the focus soley on football when it comes to joining a conference in order to get to FBS. As someone who is an alum of a pretty successful G5 program I don't see what the allure is. Sure it's nice to be able to watch on ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU frequently and to show up in a Top 25 is a cool bragging right but after a while you realize you're just spinning your wheels trying to figure out what success truly is. The bowl system for G5 programs is truly horrific at this point so the regular season is where credibility is built. That's easier said then done given the scheduling hurdles for G5 programs. Especially if you're in the Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA. Personally, I like Temple's arrangement in the AAC because it gives all of our sports a solid platform for national relevancy and aligns us with quite a few similar, nationally respected public universities and a few elite private institutions. I consider Cincinnati, Navy, Tulane, Central Florida, South Florida, SMU, Houston etc good company.

I know this a football board and football is the #1 sport but for a lot of schools basketball is the meal ticket to greener pastures. NDSU fans can boost about their titles but what Villanova, Gonzaga, Wichita State and Butler have done in hoops are major, MAJOR institutional game changers. I know Northern Iowa has a good hoops team this year so there's potential they'll be on the national radar as we get closer to March. Gonzaga and Butler are great examples of the "Flutie Effect". I know NDSU's and JMU's profile has risen because of football but that ceiling is only so high should they move to the presently constructed FBS. I still maintain the AAC is a hoops first league because the platform is there for elite/final 4/title success. It's easier to retain great coaches, recruit game changers and excel on a national level. Having Top 25/40 level football has been a pleasant surprise. The AAC had more quality teams than the ACC this year.

[WeAreThePride]

I have to lol at the Big Ten and Big 12 suggestions. The MVC doesn't even want them (which is dumb, but still).

Also Sun Belt kicked NMSU and Idaho because of travel. They aren't adding NDSU.
The Big 12 is going to collapse soon. Oklahoma and Texas will join the SEC, West Virginia will join the ACC, and Colorado will join the Pac 12. In order to stay afloat, they will need new blood. Cincinnati and Memphis are tempting, but they are 2nd and 3rd fiddle in their own states. NDSU would add a huge footprint for recruiting.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Big 12 is going to collapse soon. Oklahoma and Texas will join the SEC, West Virginia will join the ACC, and Colorado will join the Pac 12. In order to stay afloat, they will need new blood. Cincinnati and Memphis are tempting, but they are 2nd and 3rd fiddle in their own states. NDSU would add a huge footprint for recruiting.

Colorado is already in the PAC 12.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The Big 12 is going to collapse soon. Oklahoma and Texas will join the SEC, West Virginia will join the ACC, and Colorado will join the Pac 12. In order to stay afloat, they will need new blood. Cincinnati and Memphis are tempting, but they are 2nd and 3rd fiddle in their own states. NDSU would add a huge footprint for recruiting.

Colorado has been in the Pac 12 for eight years already.

I actually predict Oklahoma and Texas go to the Big Ten if anywhere. UT is not going to follow A&M into the SEC.

If the ACC wanted West Virginia, they would be in the league today (but they're not).

If Big 12 expands they will either look in the direction of BYU / Boise / Colorado State or look to expand East to complement WVU with Cincinnati and/or Memphis.

If Big 12 poached a couple of schools from the MWC, NDSU would defnitely be an option. And it's the only FBS conference that they should make the jump for. No how much the Big 12 "implodes", NDSU won't be on their radar.

[TheKingpin28]

NDSU will not be allowed to leave GFCC ever again and NDSU will not leave SDSU and SDSU will not be allowed to leave USeD ever again.

These 4 schools will come as a package no matter how much more the XDSUs offer to another conference.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colorado has been in the Pac 12 for eight years already.

I actually predict Oklahoma and Texas go to the Big Ten if anywhere. UT is not going to follow A&M into the SEC.

If the ACC wanted West Virginia, they would be in the league today (but they're not).

If Big 12 expands they will either look in the direction of BYU / Boise / Colorado State or look to expand East to complement WVU with Cincinnati and/or Memphis.

If Big 12 poached a couple of schools from the MWC, NDSU would defnitely be an option. And it's the only FBS conference that they should make the jump for. No how much the Big 12 "implodes", NDSU won't be on their radar.

I'll go in a different direction and say Nebraska's chances of returning to the Big 12 are increasing. Their move to the Big 10 has been a disaster. It's cost them geographical identity and their presence in Texas. The question to me is who would come with them? Colorado or Memphis perhaps?

There's also been more grumblings regarding Gonzaga and San Diego State linking up with the PAC 12 in some capacity. Gonzaga would instantly give the conference the best hoops program in the West and a national name brand. San Diego State has been quietly excellent in football and bball the last decade. If they could figure out a better stadium situation they are very attractive.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I know this a football board and football is the #1 sport but for a lot of schools basketball is the meal ticket to greener pastures. NDSU fans can boost about their titles but what Villanova, Gonzaga, Wichita State and Butler have done in hoops are major, MAJOR institutional game changers. I know Northern Iowa has a good hoops team this year so there's potential they'll be on the national radar as we get closer to March. Gonzaga and Butler are great examples of the "Flutie Effect". I know NDSU's and JMU's profile has risen because of football but that ceiling is only so high should they move to the presently constructed FBS. I still maintain the AAC is a hoops first league because the platform is there for elite/final 4/title success. It's easier to retain great coaches, recruit game changers and excel on a national level. Having Top 25/40 level football has been a pleasant surprise. The AAC had more quality teams than the ACC this year.

Definitely true but in the case of NDSU any move up will be football-related. From that Bison fans have told me on this board, the Missouri Valley Conference has no interest in adding North Dakota State as an all-sports member, meaning that they are stuck in the Summit League until they make a football-driven change (if that ever happens). It seems that the Dakota schools seem pretty committed to building up the Summit basketball brand which is a good thing. I know the schools all draw fairly well for mid-majors and I think NDSU and SDSU have both already won an NCAA Tournament game each.

When AAC's replacement for UCONN has come up in various threads, my hypothesis is that the league makes a move that is both football AND basketball based. My prediction is either UAB, Charlotte or Old Dominion. The league wouldn't have added Wichita if it was putting all its eggs in the football basket.

The reason UMASS is stuck in independent land today is because they refuse to give up their A-10 membership to put all sports in the MAC.

[uni88]

The Big 12 is going to collapse soon. Oklahoma and Texas will join the SEC, West Virginia will join the ACC, and Colorado will join the Pac 12. In order to stay afloat, they will need new blood. Cincinnati and Memphis are tempting, but they are 2nd and 3rd fiddle in their own states. NDSU would add a huge footprint for recruiting.

The Big 12 (and Pac 12 and even the ACC) has issues but I don't think they're on the verge of collapse. I'm not sure WVU has the academic chops for the ACC unless they're desperate because the B1G0 or SEC poached someone from them. Colorado joined the Pac 12 in 2011.

How would NDSU add a huge footprint for recruiting? ND is the 47th most populous state and SD is 46th. It's a lot of square miles without a lot of people. 2nd fiddle in Ohio or Tennessee (is Vanderbilt really above Memphis in TN?) still means more eyeballs and more potential recruits than ND & SD combined.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I'll go in a different direction and say Nebraska's chances of returning to the Big 12 are increasing. Their move to the Big 10 has been a disaster. It's cost them geographical identity and their presence in Texas. The question to me is who would come with them? Colorado or Memphis perhaps?

There's also been more grumblings regarding Gonzaga and San Diego State linking up with the PAC 12 in some capacity. Gonzaga would instantly give the conference the best hoops program in the West and a national name brand. San Diego State has been quietly excellent in football and bball the last decade. If they could figure out a better stadium situation they are very attractive.

I can't see anyone leaving the Big Ten to go to the Big 12. The difference when it comes to bowl tie-ins, potential revenue and TV contract $$ I would bet is staggering. That's why Maryland dropped the ACC like a hat.

San Diego State to the Pac 12 makes sense with the Chargers leaving town. They basically become San Diego's team, kind of like LA adopted USC as "it's team" when the city didn't have any NFL teams from 1995 until 2 years ago. Gonzaga -- I guess? Would be kind of like the Big 12 adding St. Louis or the ACC adding Georgetown.

[Derby City Duke]

I know this a football board and football is the #1 sport but for a lot of schools basketball is the meal ticket to greener pastures. NDSU fans can boost about their titles but what Villanova, Gonzaga, Wichita State and Butler have done in hoops are major, MAJOR institutional game changers. I know Northern Iowa has a good hoops team this year so there's potential they'll be on the national radar as we get closer to March. Gonzaga and Butler are great examples of the "Flutie Effect". I know NDSU's and JMU's profile has risen because of football but that ceiling is only so high should they move to the presently constructed FBS. I still maintain the AAC is a hoops first league because the platform is there for elite/final 4/title success. It's easier to retain great coaches, recruit game changers and excel on a national level. Having Top 25/40 level football has been a pleasant surprise. The AAC had more quality teams than the ACC this year.

We are fairly strong across the board athletically, with the notable exception of men's hoops (irrelevant (IMHO) since 1983...) and baseball. Our softball team advanced to a Super-Regional last year, women's lacrosse won the 2018 national championship, and women's hoops has been a post-season regulary (NCAA and WNIT) for nearly 20 years. Football has certainly been more prominent the past 4 years, but JMU is far from a one-team show. If we were to move up it's probably the C-USA though there are those out there who think we're on the AAC's radar (I'm not in that group).

[marenlee]

I can't see anyone leaving the Big Ten to go to the Big 12. The difference when it comes to bowl tie-ins, potential revenue and TV contract $$ I would bet is staggering. That's why Maryland dropped the ACC like a hat.

San Diego State to the Pac 12 makes sense with the Chargers leaving town. They basically become San Diego's team, kind of like LA adopted USC as "it's team" when the city didn't have any NFL teams from 1995 until 2 years ago. Gonzaga -- I guess? Would be kind of like the Big 12 adding St. Louis or the ACC adding Georgetown.

I would think academics would be a huge roadblock to that. SDSU doesn't really move the meter for the conference IMO. They do have solid football and basketball programs, but the PAC12 is full of large state schools with great academics.

[cx500d]

I would think academics would be a huge roadblock to that. SDSU doesn't really move the meter for the conference IMO. They do have solid football and basketball programs, but the PAC12 is full of large state schools with great academics.

Its a sporting conference, what does academics have to do with that?

[thebootfitter]

...and I think NDSU and SDSU have both already won an NCAA Tournament game each.
Neither here nor there, but South Dakota State has not yet won at the Dance. NDSU has technically won twice, but one of them was just one of the "play-in" games. As a #12 seed, their win against Oklahoma in 2014 was a pretty big deal at the time.

[thebootfitter]

Its a sporting conference, what does academics have to do with that?
As far as I understand... a lot.

The B1G especially has a very strong reputation for academics and research. It's part of their brand. Note the cliche that "student" comes first in the term "student athlete."

[Bisonoline]

I have to lol at the Big Ten and Big 12 suggestions. The MVC doesn't even want them (which is dumb, but still).

Also Sun Belt kicked NMSU and Idaho because of travel. They aren't adding NDSU.

Why the LOL??? Look at the question. The answer is Big 10 and Big 12. They are th only ones that they would Jump for.

[cx500d]

As far as I understand... a lot.

The B1G especially has a very strong reputation for academics and research. It's part of their brand. Note the cliche that "student" comes first in the term "student athlete."
I'm sure those student athletes on the Louisville/North Carolina BB teams, for instance factored academics into their decision. Or the goofers for that matter.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I would think academics would be a huge roadblock to that. SDSU doesn't really move the meter for the conference IMO. They do have solid football and basketball programs, but the PAC12 is full of large state schools with great academics.

In terms of "great academics" I'll give you Cal, UCLA, Washington and probably Colorado. After that? Some others are quality to good but certainly not great. Arizona State has the reputation of being filled with highly attractive dumb people.

North Dakota State imo would fit into the Big 12 academically. The Big Ten and ACC are by far the strongest Power Conferences academically imo. The ACC has probably more depth at the top (Duke, Wake Forest, Viginia, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, BC and ND if you want to include the Irish) while the Big Ten is stronger top to bottom.

[uni88]

As far as I understand... a lot.

The B1G especially has a very strong reputation for academics and research. It's part of their brand. Note the cliche that "student" comes first in the term "student athlete."

xthumbsupx 13 of 14 B1G0 schools are members of the AAU and the 14th (Nebraska) was a member when they joined. 9 of 12 Pac 12 schools are members.

Those 2 conferences in particular place a priority on academics & research when considering new members.

[uni88]

In terms of "great academics" I'll give you Cal, UCLA, Washington and probably Colorado. After that? Some others are quality to good but certainly not great. Arizona State has the reputation of being filled with highly attractive dumb people.

North Dakota State imo would fit into the Big 12 academically. The Big Ten and ACC are by far the strongest Power Conferences academically imo. The ACC has probably more depth at the top (Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, BC and ND if you want to include the Irish) while the Big Ten is stronger top to bottom.

You forgot Stanford, who I would rank ahead of any ACC school. AAU membership isn't a perfect measure of "great academics" but it isn't bad and in the Pac 12, only Arizona State, Oregon State and Washington State aren't members.

Louisville is an academic boat anchor compared to the other ACC schools.

[mvfcfan]

Why the LOL??? Look at the question. The answer is Big 10 and Big 12. They are th only ones that they would Jump for.

Indiana State would jump at a Big Ten offer too. People acting like it's reality is why I had to lol. The Sun Belt contacted us 5 years ago and we turned them down. It wasn't an official invite they were just interested in learning more about us.

[Ivytalk]

Any SEC cheerleaders.

[cx500d]

Indiana State would jump at a Big Ten offer too. People acting like it's reality is why I had to lol. The Sun Belt contacted us 5 years ago and we turned them down. It wasn't an official invite they were just interested in learning more about us.

....and once they found out, the rest is history

[Gil Dobie]

What G5 team would the top FCS schools not beat? IMO, a G5 conference is less competitive than the FCS playoffs, and a step down for any top team moving to a FBS G5 conference.

[cx500d]

Are there G5 schools that don't offer a full complement of scholarships?

[dewey]

What G5 team would the top FCS schools not beat? IMO, a G5 conference is less competitive than the FCS playoffs, and a step down for any top team moving to a FBS G5 conference.

IMHO this year I think Memphis and Boise State were really good. Along with Appalachian State.

Beyond that I think JMU and NDSU would beat everyone else. Not to say NDSU & JMU couldn't beat them all.

I do think the FCS playoffs are better than any G5 conference. Plus the chance to win a national championship is the best. No G5 team has a chance at the ultimate prize.

The G5 teams highest goals becomes a new years day game.

Dewey

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

IMHO this year I think Memphis and Boise State were really good. Along with Appalachian State.

Beyond that I think JMU and NDSU would beat everyone else. Not to say NDSU & JMU couldn't beat them all.

I do think the FCS playoffs are better than any G5 conference. Plus the chance to win a national championship is the best. No G5 team has a chance at the ultimate prize.

The G5 teams highest goals becomes a new years day game.

Dewey

There's no question that G5 football is a bit of a joke at this point. The ceiling each team/program can reach as things are presently constructed is only so high. That's why its nice to know the AAC and MWC have an elite ceiling when it comes to hoops. It's also nice to keep company with major, big time research universities with $$$, 2 of the 3 academies and some elite private institutions.

When it comes to mainstream athletic success and being able to use it as a catalyst to grow the school I much rather be Villanova or Butler than App State. That's why if I'm JMU the wheels are turning trying to figure out how the hell to turn around the basketball program.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think NDSU would've LIKELY beaten Boise State this year.

Memphis and App State would be at least a touchdown better anyone in FCS. Both had tremendous seasons worthy of New Year's Bowl consideration. Unfortunately, when you're the Sun Belt champ and the system is rigged by the Ole Boys Club, its a steep drop-off from the Cotton Bowl to the New Orleans Bowl. At least they got to play in the Super Dome so they can pretend they were in the Sugar Bowl.

I would also have Navy as SLIGHT favorites against NDSU and JMU. Best defense they've had in a long time.

[NY Crusader 2010]

There's no question that G5 football is a bit of a joke at this point. The ceiling each team/program can reach as things are presently constructed is only so high. That's why its nice to know the AAC and MWC have an elite ceiling when it comes to hoops. It's also nice to keep company with major, big time research universities with $$$, 2 of the 3 academies and some elite private institutions.

When it comes to mainstream athletic success and being able to use it as a catalyst to grow the school I much rather be Villanova or Butler than App State. That's why if I'm JMU the wheels are turning trying to figure out how the hell to turn around the basketball program.

If JMU were ACTUALLY a legitimate candidate to replace UCONN in the AAC (they are not), this would be an issue. I don't think this will matter at all to the Sun Belt or MAC. Maybe a very small factor for C-USA.

[Gil Dobie]

Not going anywhere for a while. Highlights from a poll of North Dakotan's.

Link (https://www.inforum.com/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/football/4879996-McFeely-Bison-football-fans-want-team-to-stay-FCS-poll-finds)

Turns out, 48% of the survey respondents who identified NDSU football as their favorite team want the Bison to stay FCS while 27% want them to move up to FBS. Again, a surprisingly high figure of 21% said they don't care.

UND hockey fans much more strongly support Bison football moving to FBS, with 40% of them saying NDSU should make the move while 22% say it should stay in FCS. Significantly, 37% say they don't care.

Of the 18 crosstabs Mitchell formulated based on gender, age, education, region, political party identification and favorite teams, only one other group supported a Bison move to FBS with a plurality. Residents of western cities (Bismarck, Mandan, Minot) said NDSU should move up by a margin of 41% to 34%.

Democrats surveyed favored FBS over FCS by a 34% to 25% margin, but a plurality of 42% said they don't care. Dems in North Dakota have bigger things about which to worry.

The poll is strictly water-cooler and social media grist because NDSU has shown no interest in moving to FBS, with school president Dean Bresciani and athletic director Matt Larsen saying FCS is the Bison's "sweet spot."

More important, no FBS conferences are known to be interested in NDSU. For the Bison to potentially make a move up, a higher-level conference would have to invite them to join and mid-major leagues like the Mountain West, Mid-American, Sun Belt, American Athletic and Conference USA have not come calling.

[WestCoastAggie]

If Boise State and Air Force leave, the MWC might not have a choice but to give NDSU an offer they can’t refuse.

[thebootfitter]

If Boise State and Air Force leave, the MWC might not have a choice but to give NDSU an offer they can’t refuse.You don't think other institutions would be higher on their radar and a better fit?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[dewey]

I hope if we ever do go FBS, and I hope we don't, we go with our respected partner that made the move to D1 with NDSU back in 2003-2004.

Dewey

[NY Crusader 2010]

You don't think other institutions would be higher on their radar and a better fit?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

MWC is at 12 right now. Let's hypothetically say two schools leave for the AAC or Big 12. They would still be at ten and could still hold a conference championship game under the new rule. So they wouldn't necessarily have to replace those two. And as much as the AAC is looking to expand West, I don't see San Diego State or Boise wanting to fly all their teams across the country for a conference that's a slight football upgrade. No way Air Force leaves the MWC, in my opinion. Just so they can be in a conference with Navy, who they play every year in football anyway? Again, the travel across all sports would be ridiculous, particularly with the academic rigors of a service academy.

I think if the MWC had to add members, their top options would be the following:

1) Rice (Houston media market, long history in major college football) -- assuming they don't get the 12th AAC spot replacing UCONN, long shot IMO
2) New Mexico State
3) UTEP
4) UT-San Antonio (upstart but a market with a lot of college sports potential)
5) North Texas (Dallas media market)

Once you exhaust that list, your getting down to the likes of NDSU, Idaho and the Montana schools. And as others have stated NDSU probably wouldn't make the jump without SDSU and/or UND. Same probably the case for Montana / Montana State. But again, not expanding is also an option.

[IBleedYellow]

I hope if we ever do go FBS, and I hope we don't, we go with our respected partner that made the move to D1 with NDSU back in 2003-2004.

Dewey

100% agreement here. We don’t go anywhere without them.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

What G5 team would the top FCS schools not beat? IMO, a G5 conference is less competitive than the FCS playoffs, and a step down for any top team moving to a FBS G5 conference.

This here.

IMO, NDSU could beat 95% of G5 most years.

[ST_Lawson]

This here.

IMO, NDSU could beat 95% of G5 most years.

This is true, but if division affiliation was determined entirely by who their football teams can beat, NDSU would be in the Big 10 and UConn and Akron would be DII.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This is true, but if division affiliation was determined entirely by who their football teams can beat, NDSU would be in the Big 10 and UConn and Akron would be DII.



True. If NDSU was like Wyoming and the only 4 year state university in the whole state then it might be a whole different story.

[centennial]

I don't know if someone posted this but Boise State is trying to leave the Mountain West. They had a sweetheart deal, when the MW got a new FOX deal they told them they won't get the big cut anymore. They are actively trying to get into the Big Sky for Olympic Sports, maybe they should give Summit a ring as well.

Could NDSU pull Boise, New Mexico State, Idaho, Liberty, UConn and JMU into the new football only WAC?

[centennial]

https://www.ktvb.com/article/sports/ncaa/ncaaf/boise-state-football/how-much-boise-state-could-gain-if-they-left-the-mountain-west-for-the-american-athletic-conference/277-7f9d8aae-f683-48be-ba8b-1b43992a5d04



On Wednesday, court documents were released that showed Boise State had filed a court complaint to the Mountain West Conference (https://www.ktvb.com/article/sports/ncaa/ncaaf/boise-state-football/boise-state-sues-mountain-west-conference-over-tv-contract-school-bonuses/277-5e044358-8b75-4ac1-9243-5f9bf44c7be4), stating that the Mountain West attempted to end the deal that the conference and university had agreed upon in 2013, which kept the Broncos in the MWC.


The complaint was filed the same day that university officials said they were "weighing our options" moving forward after Mountain West Commissioner Craig Thompson said this TV deal would be the last time that the Broncos' home games were negotiated separately from the rest of the conference.

The new TV deal is worth $270 million for six years. Boise State is anticipated to take home about $6 million per year from the deal - $1.8 million from their sweetheart deal with the conference and about $4 million from an equal share with the rest of the conference.

[NY Crusader 2010]

https://www.ktvb.com/article/sports/ncaa/ncaaf/boise-state-football/how-much-boise-state-could-gain-if-they-left-the-mountain-west-for-the-american-athletic-conference/277-7f9d8aae-f683-48be-ba8b-1b43992a5d04

Time for Boise State to embrace the reality that they are no longer perceived as anything better than the product that Hawaii, San Diego State, Wyoming and Air Force provide.

After 15 years, the casual sports fan is completely aware that your turf is blue and no one cares any more. Where is Boise State going to go? AAC would take them but good luck getting them to agree on a TV deal that disproportionately benefits them over the rest of the conference.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I don't know if someone posted this but Boise State is trying to leave the Mountain West. They had a sweetheart deal, when the MW got a new FOX deal they told them they won't get the big cut anymore. They are actively trying to get into the Big Sky for Olympic Sports, maybe they should give Summit a ring as well.

Could NDSU pull Boise, New Mexico State, Idaho, Liberty, UConn and JMU into the new football only WAC?

No.

What would actually be cool is if whether it be within CUSA or the Sun Belt, the following schools all find a way to be in the same conference:

Marshall, James Madision, App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, Liberty. Would make for some awesome rivalries and most of these games would be reasonable in terms of travel time for fans. As opposed to being stuck in a league where you're all over the place from Boca Raton to Mobile to El Paso.

[centennial]

No.

What would actually be cool is if whether it be within CUSA or the Sun Belt, the following schools all find a way to be in the same conference:

Marshall, James Madision, App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, Liberty. Would make for some awesome rivalries and most of these games would be reasonable in terms of travel time for fans. As opposed to being stuck in a league where you're all over the place from Boca Raton to Mobile to El Paso.

It is IMO the the only band of misfits that could come together. Boise is not going to CUSA or Sun Belt, they want to go AAC. A league with two or three natural rivals is needed. Idaho, NMSU and NDSU would provide that. Boise could easily get more money with a league like this.

[Grizzlies82]

It is IMO the the only band of misfits that could come together. Boise is not going to CUSA or Sun Belt, they want to go AAC. A league with two or three natural rivals is needed. Idaho, NMSU and NDSU would provide that. Boise could easily get more money with a league like this.


I realize this is just fantasy land talk but you're way out there. NDSU is very far removed from Boise. It would take a prolonged (as in decades) and monumental (as in expensive) effort to build those two into any kind of a rivalry. To put it in perspective, Fargo is almost as close to New York City as it is to Boise. Ponder that.

Finally, the rivalry between Idaho and Boise State is on par with that between No Dakota and N Dakota St. With rare exception, it has been a VERY LONG TIME since that was an interesting match up.

[JacksFan40]

I don't know if someone posted this but Boise State is trying to leave the Mountain West. They had a sweetheart deal, when the MW got a new FOX deal they told them they won't get the big cut anymore. They are actively trying to get into the Big Sky for Olympic Sports, maybe they should give Summit a ring as well.

Could NDSU pull Boise, New Mexico State, Idaho, Liberty, UConn and JMU into the new football only WAC?
Why would Liberty, JMU, and UConn join the WAC? Liberty and JMU would want the American, UConn seems happy to be Independent. If you’re trying to maintain some geographical logic since it’s supposed to be a Western conference it’s have to be this
NDSU
SDSU
Montana
Montana State
Boise
Idaho
NMSU
And the only other team who’d be logical would be BYU.

[that guy]

Why would Liberty, JMU, and UConn join the WAC? Liberty and JMU would want the American, UConn seems happy to be Independent. If you’re trying to maintain some geographical logic since it’s supposed to be a Western conference it’s have to be this
NDSU
SDSU
Montana
Montana State
Boise
Idaho
NMSU
And the only other team who’d be logical would be BYU.
You forgot USD, UND. SDSU would need two conference wins.

[JacksFan40]

You forgot USD, UND. SDSU would need two conference wins.
SDSU would beat the doors off of Idaho and NMSU. SDSU also could beat the Montanas so long as injuries don’t devastate SDSU again. BYU would be tough but beatable.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Why would Liberty, JMU, and UConn join the WAC? Liberty and JMU would want the American, UConn seems happy to be Independent. If you’re trying to maintain some geographical logic since it’s supposed to be a Western conference it’s have to be this
NDSU
SDSU
Montana
Montana State
Boise
Idaho
NMSU
And the only other team who’d be logical would be BYU.

JMU and Liberty have zero chance of getting into the AAC.

BYU would drop football before joining a conference with Montana and South Dakota. In theory, they could make a phone call and rejoin the Mountain West if they really wanted. That being said, indy life has it's challenges. They scheduled a road game in Amherst in 2019, enough said on that.

UConn is definitely not "happy" to be independent. They just have no other options at the moment. MAYBE the MAC would take them football-only?

[TheKingpin28]

BYU wont join a conference unless they have guarantees they do not play on Sunday. If you gave me a conference of the Dakota schools (ideally sans GFCC), Montanas', Idaho, ISUo, and Boise St, that would be a highly entertaining conference. I'd want them to add UNO to make it 10 for olympic sports though this way they could allow for an East and West split, which would help alleievate travel costs since busing up and down the I29 corridor as well around Idaho/Montana would allow for cheaper costs.

Going from Montana St to Montana with the 3 Idaho schools included is slightly over 1000 miles and going from GFCC to Omaha is 500 miles.

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[cx500d]

BYU wont join a conference unless they have guarantees they do not play on Sunday. If you gave me a conference of the Dakota schools (ideally sans GFCC), Montanas', Idaho, ISUo, and Boise St, that would be a highly entertaining conference. I'd want them to add UNO to make it 10 for olympic sports though this way they could allow for an East and West split, which would help alleievate travel costs since busing up and down the I29 corridor as well around Idaho/Montana would allow for cheaper costs.

Going from Montana St to Montana with the 3 Idaho schools included is slightly over 1000 miles and going from GFCC to Omaha is 500 miles.

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add Wyoming since they are bracketed geographically

[TheKingpin28]

add Wyoming since they are bracketed geographicallyIf we are going to add them that would bring us to 10 football teams and 11 olympic teams so I'd most likely want to add Denver/UMKC to balance it out to 12 for the East/West option. 10 football teams is fine if I knew NDSU would get 12 games of football with at least 6 of them being at home. I hate the 1 off schedule let alone a 2 off schedule. That's the only reason why I mentioned 9 football teams and 1 olympic sport team.

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[centennial]

Why would Liberty, JMU, and UConn join the WAC? Liberty and JMU would want the American, UConn seems happy to be Independent. If you’re trying to maintain some geographical logic since it’s supposed to be a Western conference it’s have to be this
NDSU
SDSU
Montana
Montana State
Boise
Idaho
NMSU
And the only other team who’d be logical would be BYU.

Because independent life is hard. JMU is not getting into the AAC. They could go to MAC perhaps. BYU would never join, they think of themselves as a P5. Montana has enrollment and funding issues so that would be a no.
Something like this could "work". Boise could have it's own media sweetheart deal.
NDSU
SDSU
Montana State
NMSU
Idaho
Boise State
Liberty
UConn
North Texas

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Because independent life is hard. JMU is not getting into the AAC. They could go to MAC perhaps. BYU would never join, they think of themselves as a P5. Montana has enrollment and funding issues so that would be a no.
Something like this could "work". Boise could have it's own media sweetheart deal.
NDSU
SDSU
Montana State
NMSU
Idaho
Boise State
Liberty
UConn
North Texas



I like that conference.

North Texas has a nice stadium.

[caribbeanhen]

It's taken way to long but at least Bison fans are starting to talk about it....FCS to small of a stage for the Bison, go whip Oregon, I think you will beat them

[uni88]

Because independent life is hard. JMU is not getting into the AAC. They could go to MAC perhaps. BYU would never join, they think of themselves as a P5. Montana has enrollment and funding issues so that would be a no.
Something like this could "work". Boise could have it's own media sweetheart deal.
NDSU
SDSU
Montana State
NMSU
Idaho
Boise State
Liberty
UConn
North Texas

Even with a sweetheart media deal, Boise makes less in that conference than they do with an equal share in the MWC.

[centennial]

Even with a sweetheart media deal, Boise makes less in that conference than they do with an equal share in the MWC.

Initially maybe but this conference turns out to be similarly strong as the MW in my opinion. Boise could control it's own future.

[JacksFan40]

Because independent life is hard. JMU is not getting into the AAC. They could go to MAC perhaps. BYU would never join, they think of themselves as a P5. Montana has enrollment and funding issues so that would be a no.
Something like this could "work". Boise could have it's own media sweetheart deal.
NDSU
SDSU
Montana State
NMSU
Idaho
Boise State
Liberty
UConn
North Texas
I just don’t see Montana State leaving Montana. I’d put JMU in there if Liberty and UConn are in it.

[JacksFan40]

Initially maybe but this conference turns out to be similarly strong as the MW in my opinion. Boise could control it's own future.
What Boise really wants is a P5 invite from either the PAC-12 or the Big 12.
The PAC-12 won’t expand and while the Big 12 has talked about it, they seem content with what they have.

[centennial]

What Boise really wants is a P5 invite from either the PAC-12 or the Big 12.
The PAC-12 won’t expand and while the Big 12 has talked about it, they seem content with what they have.

Their academics and endowment don't gel with P5. I can't see them going P5.


I just don’t see Montana State leaving Montana. I’d put JMU in there if Liberty and UConn are in it.

You can say the same thing for USD and UND.

[NY Crusader 2010]

What Boise really wants is a P5 invite from either the PAC-12 or the Big 12.
The PAC-12 won’t expand and while the Big 12 has talked about it, they seem content with what they have.

Out of all the I-AA/FCS => I-A/FBS move-ups since the early 1990's, not one has sniffed an invite from a P5 conference. Boise State would be the first. To quote George Carlin, "it's all one big club, and you ain't in it".

The only schools to have cracked the I-AA/G5 => P5 glass ceiling without getting bumped back down with the dissolution of the Big East (UCONN/USF/Cincy/Navy on paper) are:

1) Louisville -- C-USA => Big East => ACC
2) TCU -- MWC => Big East on paper (never played) => Big 12 **technically were a "Power Conference" team when they were in the Southwest Conference thru '95**

Even though BYU probably considers themselves P5 after going indy in football, playing a road game at UMASS tells me otherwise.

[NY Crusader 2010]

It's taken way to long but at least Bison fans are starting to talk about it....FCS to small of a stage for the Bison, go whip Oregon, I think you will beat them

Talking about it doesn't make it real. Instead of discussing which FCS programs should move up, I think the better question is "What FBS schools or entire conferences **cough** MAC **cough** should reclassify to FCS?"

There's nothing there in the FBS football world that would be a better place for NDSU than where they are now. Look at App State this year. Won the Sun Belt and was one upset loss away from an undefeated season and the chance to play in the Cotton Bowl. How far did they fall? Wound up in a bowl game against the second-place team from C-USA West. The bowl system is rigged so that G5 schools all end up playing against each other, away from the big money and big exposure. And North Dakota State is an even more unique case because of geography and there being nowhere logically to go without being an outpost.

If Missouri State had two good seasons in a row, they could possibly move to FBS before the Bison do. Let that sink in.

[Professor Chaos]

It's taken way to long but at least Bison fans are starting to talk about it....FCS to small of a stage for the Bison, go whip Oregon, I think you will beat them
There's been talk amongst our fan base regarding an FBS move for 10+ years now. It's been at a fever pitch for at least 5 years... if I had a nickel for every time someone on Bisonville brought up moving FBS I could probably fund the move but neither I nor anyone with a mind to see the Bison at the FBS level has that kind of cheese. As the saying goes "Money talks and bull**** walks".

[TheKingpin28]

There's been talk amongst our fan base regarding an FBS move for 10+ years now. It's been at a fever pitch for at least 5 years... if I had a nickel for every time someone on Bisonville brought up moving FBS I could probably fund the move but neither I nor anyone with a mind to see the Bison at the FBS level has that kind of cheese. As the saying goes "Money talks and bull**** walks".The FBS crowd over there almost always seem to be the most vocal of the group, yet they also seem to be the ones who make up excuses as to why they cant give. I know I have little but I always do the 50/50 ($20-$40) and try to give when I can. But I am the last person who would call for FBS when there is nothing there for NDSU as of right now. If they do not have a fair chance of playing for a natty, there is ZERO reason to make the jump. When G5 and P5 recruits come to NDSU over other schools, why ruin something that is working?

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[Professor Chaos]

The FBS crowd over there almost always seem to be the most vocal of the group, yet they also seem to be the ones who make up excuses as to why they cant give. I know I have little but I always do the 50/50 ($20-$40) and try to give when I can. But I am the last person who would call for FBS when there is nothing there for NDSU as of right now. If they do not have a fair chance of playing for a natty, there is ZERO reason to make the jump. When G5 and P5 recruits come to NDSU over other schools, why ruin something that is working?

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Yeah, the refrain I hear from the "FBS now" crowd on that is something along the lines of "show me where I can donate to a fund that would be used only for an FBS move". To me it demonstrates how shortsighted many of these people are. If you really want to see NDSU move to FBS and succeed in the FBS we need to (in this order); 1) finish fundraising for and build the IPF, 2) fund the men's basketball program at a higher to much higher level, 3) begin the process of planning/funding a replacement for the Fargodome.

All of those things need mucho $$$$ to happen. #1 seems to be imminent but #2 and #3 sure aren't and if I were in the boat that thinks NDSU needs to be FBS yesterday I'd be doing everything I could to push some action there. But I'd agree that NDSU is in the right (sub)division when you look at the university and the athletic department as a whole right now. Sorry rest of the FCS... that's the reality right now.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Yeah, the refrain I hear from the "FBS now" crowd on that is something along the lines of "show me where I can donate to a fund that would be used only for an FBS move". To me it demonstrates how shortsighted many of these people are. If you really want to see NDSU move to FBS and succeed in the FBS we need to (in this order); 1) finish fundraising for and build the IPF, 2) fund the men's basketball program at a higher to much higher level, 3) begin the process of planning/funding a replacement for the Fargodome

All of those things need mucho $$$$ to happen. #1 seems to be imminent but #2 and #3 sure aren't and if I were in the boat that thinks NDSU needs to be FBS yesterday I'd be doing everything I could to push some action there. But I'd agree that NDSU is in the right (sub)division when you look at the university and the athletic department as a whole right now. Sorry rest of the FCS... that's the reality right now.

The Fargo Dome would be just fine for a G5 move. The only way you'd need to build a bigger stadium is if you have dreams of a Big 12 move, which will never happen during the lifetime of anyone on this board.

[frozennorth]

If NDSU want to move up it needs a gonzaga level MBB program and a WBB program that isn't a dumpster fire. Also about $8 mil extra a year for 2 womens sports and doubling all the football salaries. And the max-out renovations to the Fargodomoe to get it to 22,000 seats

A med school and 5,000 more students wouldn't hurt either.

The most plausible route is that the AAC wants a football only member, and NDSU is the only school willing, which isn't a wild path.

[NY Crusader 2010]

If NDSU want to move up it needs a gonzaga level MBB program and a WBB program that isn't a dumpster fire. Also about $8 mil extra a year for 2 womens sports and doubling all the football salaries. And the max-out renovations to the Fargodomoe to get it to 22,000 seats

A med school and 5,000 more students wouldn't hurt either.

The most plausible route is that the AAC wants a football only member, and NDSU is the only school willing, which isn't a wild path.

Who said the AAC wanted a football-only member? The AAC is losing it's flagship Men's & Women's Basketball program in UCONN. If the conference didn't care about basketball they wouldn't have let in Wichita State. IMO, UAB, Charlotte or Old Dominion make the most sense. NDSU would be behind about 15 other schools for that last spot in the AAC, sorry.

NDSU has a far better basketball program than many schools that have moved up from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS. Most of the time it's not a major factor. But it will be for the AAC, who is not only looking to be "P6" in football but looking to be considered a power basketball conference.

[Professor Chaos]

The Fargo Dome would be just fine for a G5 move. The only way you'd need to build a bigger stadium is if you have dreams of a Big 12 move, which will never happen during the lifetime of anyone on this board.
I'd disagree. If NDSU was able to leverage school funds and student fees like some other recent FBS movers like App St, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina then the Fargodome would be fine for the G5. But I don't think that's an option in a ultra-conservative state like ND where the state board of higher education is unlikely to approve any tuition increase to fund athletics the students are unlikely to approve any student fee increase (they've voted it down numerous times in the past few years). So NDSU has to make it's FBS money elsewhere and the most logical place is to build a football venue where supply can meet and exceed demand allowing for them to increase ticket revenue and further build up the booster program as well.

[TheKingpin28]

Yeah, the refrain I hear from the "FBS now" crowd on that is something along the lines of "show me where I can donate to a fund that would be used only for an FBS move". To me it demonstrates how shortsighted many of these people are. If you really want to see NDSU move to FBS and succeed in the FBS we need to (in this order); 1) finish fundraising for and build the IPF, 2) fund the men's basketball program at a higher to much higher level, 3) begin the process of planning/funding a replacement for the Fargodome.

All of those things need mucho $$$$ to happen. #1 seems to be imminent but #2 and #3 sure aren't and if I were in the boat that thinks NDSU needs to be FBS yesterday I'd be doing everything I could to push some action there. But I'd agree that NDSU is in the right (sub)division when you look at the university and the athletic department as a whole right now. Sorry rest of the FCS... that's the reality right now.Awhile back, I had mentioned that if someone has 350-500 million lying around that they do not need and they want NDSU gone, feel free to donate it to our athletics and tell them to appropriate it properly.

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[TheKingpin28]

The Fargo Dome would be just fine for a G5 move. The only way you'd need to build a bigger stadium is if you have dreams of a Big 12 move, which will never happen during the lifetime of anyone on this board.The need for Club and more luxury seating is there and getting into an upper echelon G5 conference, they are going to want to see something that can seat 25-30k and have multiple different t options for boosters who can throw cash around like with no problem.

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[NY Crusader 2010]

Good point chaos as I know little about state politics in North Dakota. The funding could also come from additional guarantee games against Big Ten, Big XII and Pac 12 schools. Instead of getting one every 2-3 years as an FCS member that everyone is afraid to play, you probably get 2 of these games EVERY year as an FBS member.

And you'd have to wonder how long it would take increased ticket revenues to pay for the stadium construction. I could see NDSU of the G5 drawing close 25,000 per game but not 35,000. And if the new stadium constructed were an outdoor venue, you lose potential revenue to due cold weather driving down attendance in November.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The need for Club and more luxury seating is there and getting into an upper echelon G5 conference, they are going to want to see something that can seat 25-30k and have multiple different t options for boosters who can throw cash around like with no problem.

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Oxymoron.

[cx500d]

Oxymoron.
Kinda like Army Intelligence.

[Professor Chaos]

Good point chaos as I know little about state politics in North Dakota. The funding could also come from additional guarantee games against Big Ten, Big XII and Pac 12 schools. Instead of getting one every 2-3 years as an FCS member that everyone is afraid to play, you probably get 2 of these games EVERY year as an FBS member.

And you'd have to wonder how long it would take increased ticket revenues to pay for the stadium construction. I could see NDSU of the G5 drawing close 25,000 per game but not 35,000. And if the new stadium constructed were an outdoor venue, you lose potential revenue to due cold weather driving down attendance in November.
Yeah, I don't see an outdoor venue working. It could have a greater capacity than the Fargodome but, like you said, revenue increases may not be proportional due to uncertainty around weather for home games later in the season (we had a blizzard the 2nd weekend of October this past season).

As far as paying for the construction they'd almost need to have a local partner like they had in the city of Fargo for the Fargodome. The problem with that is the Fargodome still suits the city's needs just fine. But there is a lot of support for NDSU football in the community so it would be interesting to see what support would be for something like a sales tax increase to fund a "new Fargodome". There's plenty of locals who are not NDSU or NDSU football supporters as well and since the main thing that would drive this would be a new venue for NDSU football it would be a hard sell but an easier sell than trying to get more money out of the state or the NDSU student body IMO.

[ysubigred]

Kinda like Army Intelligence.Or deck swabers with knee pads

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[Gil Dobie]

Would more people go to G5 Bison games, 6 home games, or FCS home games, 9 with a championship season?

[centennial]

Would more people go to G5 Bison games, 6 home games, or FCS home games, 9 with a championship season?

Realistically, you are talking about 6 home games + bowl game. I think the first few years you get more fans as long as NDSU is a 9-11 win team. If not then numbers would go down. NDSU fans have come to expect to win all games.

[dewey]

No doubt that is correct but distance was a real issue too. The nearest Big Sky school is probably in Bozeman at what... maybe 750 miles? That is the closest.

A couple of years ago the Fargo Forum wrote an article about GFCC's closest conference mate, Montana State in Bozeman, which is slightly farther than NDSU's longest road trip, Youngstown State.

I would imagine that traveling to NDSU and SDSU was a big con for the Big Sky schools.

I was bummed we didn't get into the Big Sky at the time but the Summit and the MVFC have been better homes for the Bison.

Dewey

[Lorne_Malvo]

NDSU fans dont really jump for anything, we just kind of mosey over.

[ST_Lawson]

Out of all the I-AA/FCS => I-A/FBS move-ups since the early 1990's, not one has sniffed an invite from a P5 conference. Boise State would be the first. To quote George Carlin, "it's all one big club, and you ain't in it".

The only schools to have cracked the I-AA/G5 => P5 glass ceiling without getting bumped back down with the dissolution of the Big East (UCONN/USF/Cincy/Navy on paper) are:

1) Louisville -- C-USA => Big East => ACC
2) TCU -- MWC => Big East on paper (never played) => Big 12 **technically were a "Power Conference" team when they were in the Southwest Conference thru '95**

Even though BYU probably considers themselves P5 after going indy in football, playing a road game at UMASS tells me otherwise.

You could probably include Utah in your I-AA/G5 -> P5 movers. They were in the old WAC (with New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State, UTEP, etc.) until '99, then Mountain West until '11, and are now in the PAC12. They weren't I-AA/FCS, but they were solidly what was considered "G5" level" for quite a while.

[Hammerhead]

The sad part is the original concept for the Fargodome presented to voters had somewhere around 25K seats. Renderings basically showed a slightly larger Tacomadome so then you wouldn't have people complaining that it looks like a loaf of bread.


The need for Club and more luxury seating is there and getting into an upper echelon G5 conference, they are going to want to see something that can seat 25-30k and have multiple different t options for boosters who can throw cash around like with no problem.

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[POD Knows]

The need for Club, POD Knows Lair and more luxury seating is there and getting into an upper echelon G5 conference, they are going to want to see something that can seat 25-30k and have multiple different t options for boosters who can throw cash around like with no problem.

Sent from my SM-J727V using TapatalkFYP

[TheKingpin28]

The sad part is the original concept for the Fargodome presented to voters had somewhere around 25K seats. Renderings basically showed a slightly larger Tacomadome so then you wouldn't have people complaining that it looks like a loaf of bread.

You can thank the old mayoral administration of Fargo for that one.

[TheKingpin28]

FYP

Yes! I'm still getting my own elevator and free entrance for life.

"Where **** happens and questions remain"

[POD Knows]

Yes! I'm still getting my own elevator and free entrance for life.

"Where **** happens and questions remain"Yea, but if there is a towel hanging on the door you can't come in.

[TheKingpin28]

Yea, but if there is a towel hanging on the door you can't come in.

And how often is that going to happen?

[WeAreThePride]

Culturally, I think a new conference made up of NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Wyoming, BYU, Boise State, the Montanas, and Idaho would be great. Very underpopulated states in a rough geographical circle. Sort of take up the Mountain West's footprint, but dump the California and Hawaii schools.

Northern Iowa could possibly fit as well, and honestly, Iowa State should be a G5. That would give us 11 schools, with multiple top 50 programs. A good, solid foundation for a conference.

[centennial]

Culturally, I think a new conference made up of NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Wyoming, BYU, Boise State, the Montanas, and Idaho would be great. Very underpopulated states in a rough geographical circle. Sort of take up the Mountain West's footprint, but dump the California and Hawaii schools.

Northern Iowa could possibly fit as well, and honestly, Iowa State should be a G5. That would give us 11 schools, with multiple top 50 programs. A good, solid foundation for a conference.

We are talking about 7 FCS move ups at one go. It's impossible. The best we can hope for is SDSU comes along and WAC gathers the independents and strugglers.

[frozennorth]

Who said the AAC wanted a football-only member? The AAC is losing it's flagship Men's & Women's Basketball program in UCONN. If the conference didn't care about basketball they wouldn't have let in Wichita State. IMO, UAB, Charlotte or Old Dominion make the most sense. NDSU would be behind about 15 other schools for that last spot in the AAC, sorry.

NDSU has a far better basketball program than many schools that have moved up from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS. Most of the time it's not a major factor. But it will be for the AAC, who is not only looking to be "P6" in football but looking to be considered a power basketball conference.

the AAC will have 12 olympic and 11 football programs

[frozennorth]

Culturally, I think a new conference made up of NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Wyoming, BYU, Boise State, the Montanas, and Idaho would be great. Very underpopulated states in a rough geographical circle. Sort of take up the Mountain West's footprint, but dump the California and Hawaii schools.

Northern Iowa could possibly fit as well, and honestly, Iowa State should be a G5. That would give us 11 schools, with multiple top 50 programs. A good, solid foundation for a conference.
Why Boise downgrade from the Mountain West to a conference with UND, USD, Idaho, and the Montanas? Why take Wyoming and leave Air Force? No California schools?

[WeAreThePride]

Why Boise downgrade from the Mountain West to a conference with UND, USD, Idaho, and the Montanas? Why take Wyoming and leave Air Force? No California schools?
I forgot about Air Force, they would be great too. Maybe Colorado and CSU, as well. No California schools because they're too far.

- - - Updated - - -


We are talking about 7 FCS move ups at one go. It's impossible. The best we can hope for is SDSU comes along and WAC gathers the independents and strugglers.
Meh. The FBS move is a pipe dream anyway. Might as well talk about what I'd like to see.

[BisonFan02]

Can we just stop this ****? Going FBS has nothing to do with winning. Location, TV, and money/budget.....ND, Fargo media, and a 13k enrollment small state school.

There are numerous existing FCS programs that will go before....and to mirror schools like Coastal...Liberty...Charlotte...etc, it wont have anything to do with tradition and winning.

[NY Crusader 2010]

the AAC will have 12 olympic and 11 football programs

Your math is off. Right now the AAC has 12 football and 12 all-sports members. Navy is the only football affiliate. Wichita State is the only full-time member with no football. Subtract UCONN and your'e at 11 and 11.

It's not IMPOSSIBLE that they take in a football-only member since odd numbers aren't really a problem in basketball. Air Force could make sense, for example (they could park Olympic sports in the Summit). But given that AAC's flagship Men's & Women's basketball program is leaving, why wouldn't they want a school who is a plus in both categories, like Charlotte or UAB?

[dewey]

Can we just stop this ****? Going FBS has nothing to do with winning. Location, TV, and money/budget.....ND, Fargo media, and a 13k enrollment small state school.

There are numerous existing FCS programs that will go before....and to mirror schools like Coastal...Liberty...Charlotte...etc, it wont have anything to do with tradition and winning.

You sir are EXACTLY right!

Dewey

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Dominant FCS program and a really solid mid-major hoops program that will be going dancing for the 4th time in the last 7 seasons. They could roll in just about any major conference in the country imo....

[Professor Chaos]

Dominant FCS program and a really solid mid-major hoops program that will be going dancing for the 4th time in the last 7 seasons. They could roll in just about any major conference in the country imo....
The men's basketball program still has a long way to go to even reach elite mid-major status IMO. The Summit League is not a good league and NDSU and SDSU, being the only two consistently solid mid-major programs in the league, have benefited from it and gobbled up the last 9 SL tournament titles.

There needs to be a lot more support given to the NDSU MBB program for them to even be competitive in a league like the MWC or AAC in my opinion.

[ST_Lawson]

The men's basketball program still has a long way to go to even reach elite mid-major status IMO. The Summit League is not a good league and NDSU and SDSU, being the only two consistently solid mid-major programs in the league, have benefited from it and gobbled up the last 9 SL tournament titles.

There needs to be a lot more support given to the NDSU MBB program for them to even be competitive in a league like the MWC or AAC in my opinion.

You'd probably need to see them consistently schedule tough and win games OOC plus fairly regularly get past round 1 of the tournament. Do that for a few years and they'd be getting a lot more interest, even if they were still in the Summit. They've proven they can do well in the league, but need to do more against tougher opponents outside of that.

[centennial]

Dominant FCS program and a really solid mid-major hoops program that will be going dancing for the 4th time in the last 7 seasons. They could roll in just about any major conference in the country imo....

Basketball would just about struggle in any good mid major league. NDSU is currently the king of a sub par summit. Basketball will need to double/triple salaries and find higher end recruits.

The summit has plummeted to a low major conference. It's 22nd on RPI. It needs to be hovering around MVC(11th) and NDSU win it to be sure they wouldn't be a bottom 3 team. I think NDSU is 15 win team at best in a nicer league.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Basketball would just about struggle in any good mid major league. NDSU is currently the king of a sub par summit. Basketball will need to double/triple salaries and find higher end recruits.

The summit has plummeted to a low major conference. It's 22nd on RPI. It needs to be hovering around MVC(11th) and NDSU win it to be sure they wouldn't be a bottom 3 team. I think NDSU is 15 win team at best in a nicer league.

My belief is there's a culture of success that exists that would translate well in a better conference. That combined with an uptick in talent would make the Bison a formidable foe. While the current roster almost certainly wouldn't be good enough to challenge, San Diego State, Utah State and Houston I wouldn't put it past the Bison from hanging in with just about anyone else from the AAC or MWC. Colgate beat bubblicious Cincinnati and it's not like Colgate is some mid-major juggernaut. Once the Bison got their feet wet I think they would be fine.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Still no interest from the Missouri Valley Conference bringing in NDSU and SDSU as all-sports members? Or would all four Dakotas have to come in a package deal, which I'm guessing would be a no-go for the Valley?

[BisonFan02]

Still no interest from the Missouri Valley Conference bringing in NDSU and SDSU as all-sports members? Or would all four Dakotas have to come in a package deal, which I'm guessing would be a no-go for the Valley?

"Politically" speaking, there is nothing binding the 4 schools together...or the pair within each state...but you're going to have a tough time navigating another split now that all 4 are together again.

Also...as much as I like basketball, that isnt necessarily the norm for most Bison fans....football school by FAR. That won't help the argument for them on the MVC....plus geography....not a bus visit....UND would need to be a travel partner probably as well.