Massey Top 30 of all time

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Ken Massey ranking of the top 30 FCS/1AA teams of all time.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1raFioEJd1ZiZsH9ckdHSMlNJuUFUJmdz/view?usp=sharing

[BisonFan02]

Interesting.

[Professor Chaos]

Yes, very interesting. If I'm not mistaken there are only 3 teams on that list that didn't win titles: 2017 JMU, 2019 JMU, and 1996 Montana.

Also interesting that 9 of the top 14 and 11 of the top 22 have been teams from the last 9 years. Is FCS football getting better???

[kdinva]

2007 Appy. State team, to me, should be in the top-12.

[TheKingpin28]

The evolution of sports medicine and science is a staggering note I have taken away from this. Though, having Moss to throw to, never hurts.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[caribbeanhen]

Yes, very interesting. If I'm not mistaken there are only 3 teams on that list that didn't win titles: 2017 JMU, 2019 JMU, and 1996 Montana.

Also interesting that 9 of the top 14 and 11 of the top 22 have been teams from the last 9 years. Is FCS football getting better???

not after the Bison, generally going the other way I would guess

Paul fixed a lot of Wings problems

[Gil Dobie]

2 runner-up teams in the last 10 years, better than half the Georgia Southern teams and 2 App St teams. FCS is better than before.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

2 runner-up teams in the last 10 years, better than half the Georgia Southern teams and 2 App St teams. FCS is better than before.

I think the problem with a lot of people and their perception is that first their own team may have fallen back a little bit, and/or the fact that even though FCS may be better, NDSU is better than the better so this doesn't feel better to anyone not rooting for NDSU. I think you are correct though, it does seem to be better overall in the Top 40 than it was previously but this comes with parity so again that might detract from perception a bit as well.

But, you can look all around and see really good teams with l6, 7, or 8 wins and still know that there are a ton of better teams out there going at it.

[Mocs123]

It's hard to compare differnt era's. The '96 Marshall team was every bit as dominant as any of the NDSU teams, but if you were to get a time machine and play each other, NDSU would win. Strength and conditioning and nutrition are much better now, perticularly in High School and Junior High football and that translates to the college game. Georgia Southern and App were dominant in their day too.

That being said nobody can deny the domination of the Bison the past decade. It's boarderline criminal how dominant they have been. We have never seen nor will ever see this amount of dominance by a single team in a major sport again. Nick Saban is jealous.

[Gil Dobie]

I think the problem with a lot of people and their perception is that first their own team may have fallen back a little bit, and/or the fact that even though FCS may be better, NDSU is better than the better so this doesn't feel better to anyone not rooting for NDSU. I think you are correct though, it does seem to be better overall in the Top 40 than it was previously but this comes with parity so again that might detract from perception a bit as well.

But, you can look all around and see really good teams with l6, 7, or 8 wins and still know that there are a ton of better teams out there going at it.

As you've seen on cs.com, Kalm and I have been going back and forth with a few Delaware fans on this topic. They had a pretty good team in 2003, so if they compare 2003 to their playoff team from last year, I'm sure they see the difference.

- - - Updated - - -


It's hard to compare differnt era's. The '96 Marshall team was every bit as dominant as any of the NDSU teams, but if you were to get a time machine and play each other, NDSU would win. Strength and conditioning and nutrition are much better now, perticularly in High School and Junior High football and that translates to the college game. Georgia Southern and App were dominant in their day too.

That being said nobody can deny the domination of the Bison the past decade. It's boarderline criminal how dominant they have been. We have never seen nor will ever see this amount of dominance by a single team in a major sport again. Nick Saban is jealous.

Probably didn't help seeing his former QB in the final four with Oklahoma this year.

[thebootfitter]

Ken Massey ranking of the top 30 FCS/1AA teams of all time.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1raFioEJd1ZiZsH9ckdHSMlNJuUFUJmdz/view?usp=sharing
That's a lot of really good teams right there. I would be interested in seeing the metrics that he used to develop the list. The order may be debatable on some of them, depending on the criteria used, but hard to argue with the teams listed.

I wonder where 2016 NDSU would fall. That team didn't make the list, but they must have been close. They weren't really that much less of a force than JMU 2016.

[The Yo Show]

As you've seen on cs.com, Kalm and I have been going back and forth with a few Delaware fans on this topic. They had a pretty good team in 2003, so if they compare 2003 to their playoff team from last year, I'm sure they see the difference.

- - - Updated - - -



Probably didn't help seeing his former QB in the final four with Oklahoma this year.

Also of note, back in the day certain penalties don't exist that do now, the game has actually changed alot. Can't chop block, alot of hits would be targeting that were perfectly legal before ect. Not saying that is bad, just saying that also makes it hard to compare now to then. If you took the same teams and gave them the same new nutrition and stuff, it becomes hard to compare, because alot of the prior teams could be just as good or better with the new stuff. IDK. Still interesting.

[EKU05]

I'm honestly just surprised that if only one EKU team was going to make the list it was the 1979 team rather than the undefeated 1982 team.

[Redbird 4th & short]

If 2014 NDSU made 11th, I have to think 2014 ISUr should have been under some consideration. The 3 closest Nattys during NDSU's run were the 2 for JMU and 2014 ISUr when we had lead in final 2 mins and lost by 2. Once that offense got cooking in 2and half of season, it was pretty strong. We put 3 guys into NFL from that offense and none named Roberson or Coprich. We also tied NDSU for MVFC championship.

Not surprised we were left off but we should have been in the hunt at the very least.

[caribbeanhen]

I'm honestly just surprised that if only one EKU team was going to make the list it was the 1979 team rather than the undefeated 1982 team.

That 82 game was one that got away from the Hens, you guys had a great team

[uni88]

2007 Appy. State team, to me, should be in the top-12.

xthumbsupx The 2007 App State team was a good one. I wish UNI hadn't wet the bed against Frosted Joe Flacco and the Hens and had gotten a shot against them. 2007 was a great year for really good I-AA/FCS teams.

[Hammerhead]

The FCS is better because many teams are on TV so recruits are more willing to go FCS. Watch the introductions on any NFL game and at least half of the teams seem to have a starter from a non-FBS team.

[frozennorth]

7 of the top 11 in 8 years. What if NDSU's baseline is 'historically elite' and this just continues forever?

[Grizzlies82]

7 of the top 11 in 8 years. What if NDSU's baseline is 'historically elite' and this just continues forever?


If this "continues forever" everyone who is not a UNDS fan will stop paying any attention to the FCS playoffs.

Despite what Bison fans believe their almost complete dominance has not been good for the division as a whole.

[Schism55]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing xdrunkyx
That 87 Holy Cross team, not sure any one player at any level has meant more to a teams success than Gordy Lockbaum.

[NDSU1980]

If this "continues forever" everyone who is not a UNDS fan will stop paying any attention to the FCS playoffs.

Despite what Bison fans believe their almost complete dominance has not been good for the division as a whole.
How do you figure that? Step up your game and compete.

[JSUSoutherner]

How do you figure that? Step up your game and compete.

Idk about you, but watching the Patriots win every other Superbowl gets old.

Dominance is boring unless it's your team dominating. Parity creates excitement for all.

I'm not NDSU should "be not as good", but acting like one team winning everything is a benefit to the division as a whole is pretty dumb. Unfortunately, I don't see anything ever changing. The disparity between programs and their resources means that there will likely never be a significant amount of competition in the FCS outside of two, maybe three, teams a year.

Is what it is.

[Professor Chaos]

Idk about you, but watching the Patriots win every other Superbowl gets old.

Dominance is boring unless it's your team dominating. Parity creates excitement for all.

I'm not NDSU should "be not as good", but acting like one team winning everything is a benefit to the division as a whole is pretty dumb. Unfortunately, I don't see anything ever changing. The disparity between programs and their resources means that there will likely never be a significant amount of competition in the FCS outside of two, maybe three, teams a year.

Is what it is.
The thing is it's not resources that separates NDSU from others in the FCS. JMU spends $5M more on football annually than NDSU does. Jacksonville St, Delaware, and both Montana schools spend more on football annually than NDSU does.

Roll your eyes if you want but the difference between NDSU and the rest of the FCS isn't something tangible that can be tied to resources or spending. What they've built obviously isn't easy to build or it would've happened and be happening in more places but it's not something you can build just by throwing money at the program.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing xdrunkyx
That 87 Holy Cross team, not sure any one player at any level has meant more to a teams success than Gordy Lockbaum.
changing sports, but staying at FCS level .. Larry Bird has to be way up there.

[POD Knows]

Idk about you, but watching the Patriots win every other Superbowl gets old.

Dominance is boring unless it's your team dominating. Parity creates excitement for all.

I'm not NDSU should "be not as good", but acting like one team winning everything is a benefit to the division as a whole is pretty dumb. Unfortunately, I don't see anything ever changing. The disparity between programs and their resources means that there will likely never be a significant amount of competition in the FCS outside of two, maybe three, teams a year.

Is what it is.
NDSU gets outspent by quite a few teams in this division on Football. What resources are you talking about? It isn’t necessarily the money that has made this program successful.

[AmsterBison]

Man, if JMU, UNI, and/or SDSU didn't lose their games against WVU, Iowa State, and/or Minnesota this year...

[Redbird 4th & short]

The thing is it's not resources that separates NDSU from others in the FCS. JMU spends $5M more on football annually than NDSU does. Jacksonville St, Delaware, and both Montana schools spend more on football annually than NDSU does.

Roll your eyes if you want but the difference between NDSU and the rest of the FCS isn't something tangible that can be tied to resources or spending. What they've built obviously isn't easy to build or it would've happened and be happening in more places but it's not something you can build just by throwing money at the program.

I agree .. NDSU has no inherent advantages that weren't built and/or earned over a long period of time. Even their budget is earned as they rely very little on student fees or university money.

If there is one inherent advantage, it is only that they have very little competition for fans or attention sitting there in Fargo. You could draw a 3 hour radius around them, and there is very little in the way of other sporting options, certainly very little in the way of football. But you could say the exact same thing about several areas of rural america.

But I am not in camp of people who think they should just go FBS. One, I'm not convnced their model would translate well at the P5 level .. that game is much more about big time playmakers who play in space. NDSU does not do that. And the P5 grind would take a toll on them .. they are bigger, faster, better, and deeper with those players. I'm quite sure they would do very well at G5 level, but I don't know why would prefer G5 to FCS .. there is moderate difference (less difference with MVFC) and no true champion.

[ST_Lawson]

Damn, 3 points from possibly being on that list. In 2002 we played WKU in September at their place, beating them 14-0. We'd end up losing one game that regular season (by 2 points to SIU) before crushing Tony Romo-led EIU 48-9 in the first round of the playoffs and setting up a rematch with Western Kentucky. They ended up coming away with a 3-point win and going on to beat Georgia Southern and then McNeese State in the championship game. WIU, being the #2 seed, would have hosted #3 Georgia Southern too.

[Professor Chaos]

Damn, 3 points from possibly being on that list. In 2002 we played WKU in September at their place, beating them 14-0. We'd end up losing one game that regular season (by 2 points to SIU) before crushing Tony Romo-led EIU 48-9 in the first round of the playoffs and setting up a rematch with Western Kentucky. They ended up coming away with a 3-point win and going on to beat Georgia Southern and then McNeese State in the championship game. WIU, being the #2 seed, would have hosted #3 Georgia Southern too.
Massey felt compelled to include WKU's 2002 team to avoid getting sledgehammered. ;)

[JSUSoutherner]

The thing is it's not resources that separates NDSU from others in the FCS. JMU spends $5M more on football annually than NDSU does. Jacksonville St, Delaware, and both Montana schools spend more on football annually than NDSU does.

Roll your eyes if you want but the difference between NDSU and the rest of the FCS isn't something tangible that can be tied to resources or spending. What they've built obviously isn't easy to build or it would've happened and be happening in more places but it's not something you can build just by throwing money at the program.

And JMU Is the one of very few programs that keep up.

JSU also absolutely does not have the support behind it that NDSU does. I don't know where you got that notion. Hell, we don't even have a training table.

You can list maybe 5-8 programs that are spending and have a support system in that top tier. Out of, what, 128 teams?

Unpopular opinion: a vast majority of the teams in the FCS are garbage.

NDSU is giving everyone the blueprint, but it's not an easy thing to replicate. Again, that's not the fault of NDSU, but like I said, watching the Patriots win is boring.

[Bisonator]

If 2014 NDSU made 11th, I have to think 2014 ISUr should have been under some consideration. The 3 closest Nattys during NDSU's run were the 2 for JMU and 2014 ISUr when we had lead in final 2 mins and lost by 2. Once that offense got cooking in 2and half of season, it was pretty strong. We put 3 guys into NFL from that offense and none named Roberson or Coprich. We also tied NDSU for MVFC championship.

Not surprised we were left off but we should have been in the hunt at the very least.

That 2014 ISUr team should absolutely be in the top 30. xnodx

[Bisonator]

Until there is a legitimate landing spot in the FBS landscape for NDSU, like it or not NDSU is stuck in FCS. Unless the whiners want to start restricting things like COA then maybe NDSU will be forced to do something. The real problem is most FCS programs shouldn't even be D1. They can't compete at the D1 level in any sports. There should be a massive reshuffling of NCAA programs but that'll never happen unfortunately.

[Sader87]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing xdrunkyx
That 87 Holy Cross team, not sure any one player at any level has meant more to a teams success than Gordy Lockbaum.

While Gordie was unquestionably talented, it was a hardly a "one man show" for HC that year. Gordie arguably had a bettah overall season in 1986 actually.

Different era, at the time, HC was recruiting and attracting a much higher profile player vis a vis the rest of 1-AA/FCS than it does today. The 1987 HC roster was still a full scholarship team even though it had just entered the then Colonial, now Patriot League.

[AmsterBison]

Unpopular opinion: a vast majority of the teams in the FCS are garbage.

NDSU is giving everyone the blueprint, but it's not an easy thing to replicate. Again, that's not the fault of NDSU, but like I said, watching the Patriots win is boring.

There certainly didn't seem to be much difference between #5 through #50.

But no dynasty lasts forever.

[Redbird 4th & short]

And JMU Is the one of very few programs that keep up.

JSU also absolutely does not have the support behind it that NDSU does. I don't know where you got that notion. Hell, we don't even have a training table.

You can list maybe 5-8 programs that are spending and have a support system in that top tier. Out of, what, 128 teams?

Unpopular opinion: a vast majority of the teams in the FCS are garbage.

NDSU is giving everyone the blueprint, but it's not an easy thing to replicate. Again, that's not the fault of NDSU, but like I said, watching the Patriots win is boring.

As a conference, I think Big Sky (and MVFC overall) has given the FCS a more realistic blue print - it's much easier said than done to duplicate NDSU model.

But the Big Sky went from being mostly a 1 team conference (EWU) in most years to now being right up there with MVFC, in terms of the strength of upper half, and possibly the depth of lower half .. though MVFC lower half had a really off year in 2019. I think the model that Big Sky proved is simply this .. more competition and more balance.

- Competition ... Big Sky went out of their way to keep playing tougher SOS in OOC games, both FBS and FCS games .. in particular, the Big Sky-MVFC challenge. We used to dominate the Big Sky, but not anymore.

- More balance .. several top tier programs made much more of a commitment to defense and run games. It is still primarily more of a passing conference, but many teams have gotten much better on defense and have tried to develop run games, both of which require much better line play.

MVFC has been focused on this for at least the last decade, particularly with the Dakotas joining. And combined with Big Sky, you are seeing the result of this the last few years ... the Top 10 the last couple years is mostly MVFC and Big Sky teams. And outside of JMU, the Colonial has slipped .. still deep with good teams, but not nearly as many Top 10 level teams.

So I don;t recommend trying to duplicate the NDSU model. Much more realistic to try the Big Sky model ... play tougher OOC schedules, take a few more losses now. This is the only way to get better and truly know where you stand, if you are committed to getting better.

[Redbird 4th & short]

That 2014 ISUr team should absolutely be in the top 30. xnodx

Can you send Massey a note ?? It'll look much better coming from you than me.

xdrunkyx

[Professor Chaos]

And JMU Is the one of very few programs that keep up.

JSU also absolutely does not have the support behind it that NDSU does. I don't know where you got that notion. Hell, we don't even have a training table.

You can list maybe 5-8 programs that are spending and have a support system in that top tier. Out of, what, 128 teams?

Unpopular opinion: a vast majority of the teams in the FCS are garbage.

NDSU is giving everyone the blueprint, but it's not an easy thing to replicate. Again, that's not the fault of NDSU, but like I said, watching the Patriots win is boring.
In 2016 and 2017 (the last two years reported on the Department of Education's database) JSU outspent NDSU on football.

JSU: http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fcs/jacksonville-state-university#!quicktabs-tab-institution_data-2
NDSU: http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fcs/north-dakota-state-university#!quicktabs-tab-institution_data-2

[ysubigred]

This whole list is goofy.

He took all the NC's 14, 15 and 16 -0 teams put the in order then moved down the line. Just from what I think the 97 YSU team was better than the 94 team at 16?!

xtwocentsx

[Professor]

Can someone post the complete list?

[ST_Lawson]

Massey felt compelled to include WKU's 2002 team to avoid getting sledgehammered. ;)

Valid concern

[Silenoz]

How do you figure that? Step up your game and compete.
Okay, us fans will do that. Starting now.

If desire was good enough the Cowboys would have a billion Super Bowls.

[IBleedYellow]

If this "continues forever" everyone who is not a UNDS fan will stop paying any attention to the FCS playoffs.

Despite what Bison fans believe their almost complete dominance has not been good for the division as a whole.

Step the **** up then. We're clearly not coming down to your level.




JMU football spending: $10.11MM
Montana State football spending: $6.44MM
Montana football spending: $6.11MM
NDSU football spending: $5.28MM
Illinois State football spending: $4.02MM
Austin Peay football spending: $3.76MM
FCS Median football spending: $3.74MM
Northern Iowa football spending: $3.55MM
Weber State football spending: $3.55MM

[DFW HOYA]

While Gordie was unquestionably talented, it was a hardly a "one man show" for HC that year. Gordie arguably had a bettah overall season in 1986 actually.

Different era, at the time, HC was recruiting and attracting a much higher profile player vis a vis the rest of 1-AA/FCS than it does today. The 1987 HC roster was still a full scholarship team even though it had just entered the then Colonial, now Patriot League.

Unpopular opinion: The early Colonial (Patriot) League is head and shoulders above what it is today.




NDSU football spending: $5.28MM



Six of seven PL schools actually outspend NDSU. The results are markedly different.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That's a lot of really good teams right there. I would be interested in seeing the metrics that he used to develop the list. The order may be debatable on some of them, depending on the criteria used, but hard to argue with the teams listed.

I wonder where 2016 NDSU would fall. That team didn't make the list, but they must have been close. They weren't really that much less of a force than JMU 2016.

He emailed me that so I could send a reply with your request and see what we get back.

[Silenoz]

The thing is it's not resources that separates NDSU from others in the FCS. JMU spends $5M more on football annually than NDSU does. Jacksonville St, Delaware, and both Montana schools spend more on football annually than NDSU does.

Roll your eyes if you want but the difference between NDSU and the rest of the FCS isn't something tangible that can be tied to resources or spending. What they've built obviously isn't easy to build or it would've happened and be happening in more places but it's not something you can build just by throwing money at the program.

Eh, have you seen how Montana actually manages their money? I'm honestly surprised we still offer 63 scholarships.

[ST_Lawson]

Step the **** up then. We're clearly not coming down to your level.




JMU football spending: $10.11MM

...



That's almost our entire athletics budget.

[Grizalltheway]

I'm foolishly optimistic that the Griz will get to the point where they can at least give NDSU a game in the near future. I think Hauck and his staff know what it's going to take personnel-wise to get there, and are as hungry as the fans are to get it done.

[Silenoz]

I'm foolishly optimistic that the Griz will get to the point where they can at least give NDSU a game in the near future. I think Hauck and his staff know what it's going to take personnel-wise to get there, and are as hungry as the fans are to get it done.
Baby steps. Like, a first step of not losing to MSU by 20+ next year.

Our culture has been in complete disarray thanks to 2012. Still.

[Grizalltheway]

Baby steps. Like, a first step of not losing to MSU by 20+ next year.

Our culture has been in complete disarray thanks to 2012. Still.
That's where the "foolishly" part comes in.xlolx

[Sader87]

[QUOTE=DFW HOYA;2852733]Unpopular opinion: The early Colonial (Patriot) League is head and shoulders above what it is today.

Holy Cross from 1986-1991 undoubtedly was...but in reality, it was mostly a Colonial/Patriot League squad in name only...most of those teams, particularly the late 1980s rosters, were compromised of scholarship players who were recruited before HC joined the league.

The drop-off in the 90's and beyond was steep....HC really hasn't recruited close to that level overall until the last couple years undah Chesney.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fix the quote Sader.

[TennBison]

There certainly didn't seem to be much difference between #5 through #50.

But no dynasty lasts forever.
​I think you mean to say "No dynasty has lasted forever yet".

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That's a lot of really good teams right there. I would be interested in seeing the metrics that he used to develop the list. The order may be debatable on some of them, depending on the criteria used, but hard to argue with the teams listed.

I wonder where 2016 NDSU would fall. That team didn't make the list, but they must have been close. They weren't really that much less of a force than JMU 2016.



Nothing too fancy - I just normalized my final FCS ratings across the years, and computed the round-robin win percentage if they all played each other.


You can share that on the message board. Thanks!



That's the reply booty.

[Grizzlies82]

Step the **** up then. We're clearly not coming down to your level.




JMU football spending: $10.11MM
Montana State football spending: $6.44MM
Montana football spending: $6.11MM
NDSU football spending: $5.28MM
Illinois State football spending: $4.02MM
Austin Peay football spending: $3.76MM
FCS Median football spending: $3.74MM
Northern Iowa football spending: $3.55MM
Weber State football spending: $3.55MM




Well F***, watch out man. I am heading to the gym right now. You were warned!

No I don't expect 'you' to come down to anyone else's level. I am cautiously optimistic Montana is turning things around. Most of this past decade has been awful for the Grizzly fans (even though we beat NDSU). The prior decade is what our fans want and expect. We'll see if the Griz are back on the right road. Montana State has even shown some promise this year. Who knows if these are trends?

That said, I was answering the question posed. This is honest and accurate. Complete dominance by one team diminishes the enthusiasm of the other team's fanbases (and probably their teams as well). NDSU winning 8 of the past 9 Championships is not good for the FCS as a whole. It is not your fault. It is an exceptional achievement! Folks in your program can take great pride in it. None the less it is not healthy for the division as a whole, nor even your conference. Doubt it if you wish but it is a fact.

To a MUCH LESSER extent we saw the same thing with Montana dominating the Big Sky conference (and our little brother MT State). There was hatred of the Grizzlies and it soured many programs for several years. Ultimately some other Big Sky schools began to step up their game, most notably Eastern Washington (and others), and the balance made the conference better. Time will come when No. Dakota State will stumble too. No doubt a combination of others "stepping up" and the Bison falling down. It will be a good thing for FCS football when that day comes and every school believes their team has a credible chance to win it all. Right now virtually nobody believes that.

[thebootfitter]

That's the reply booty.Thanks! I didn't actually expect an answer. Ha ha!

I figured it would be something like that. I believe he calculates a score for the offense, the defense, and overall for the team. (I'm sure there are many layers to developing each of those scores.) My guess is that he has those values for each year and applied them to his match up formula as he indicated.

The piece that may get a little tricky is the normalization process for those values across multiple years. I'm not arguing with his methodology at all, but my understanding is that each year the ratings are in relation to the other teams that year. I'm not clear how much validity the methodology has in comparing across multiple years.

I think it's a fascinating concept either way. It's possible that the exercise was simply for the fun of doing it without contemplating that challenge too deeply, or it's also possible that he has addressed the issue of comparing relative strength across multiple years and has found it to be a non-issue. It just seems like it would be hard to "prove," given that the only objective results to compare are those from games in the respective years they are played.

In other words, is he normalizing to the strength of the champion each year, with the understanding that some champions may be stronger than others -- but ignoring that for the sake of the exercise? Or is he normalizing to some other metric that would consider the relative strength between years somehow?

If you've got an open dialogue with him, it would be fun if he could address any of those questions as well. But again, I'm not expecting answers. No need to press. I'm just curious more than anything.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Thanks! I didn't actually expect an answer. Ha ha!

I figured it would be something like that. I believe he calculates a score for the offense, the defense, and overall for the team. (I'm sure there are many layers to developing each of those scores.) My guess is that he has those values for each year and applied them to his match up formula as he indicated.

The piece that may get a little tricky is the normalization process for those values across multiple years. I'm not arguing with his methodology at all, but my understanding is that each year the ratings are in relation to the other teams that year. I'm not clear how much validity the methodology has in comparing across multiple years.

I think it's a fascinating concept either way. It's possible that the exercise was simply for the fun of doing it without contemplating that challenge too deeply, or it's also possible that he has addressed the issue of comparing relative strength across multiple years and has found it to be a non-issue. It just seems like it would be hard to "prove," given that the only objective results to compare are those from games in the respective years they are played.

In other words, is he normalizing to the strength of the champion each year, with the understanding that some champions may be stronger than others -- but ignoring that for the sake of the exercise? Or is he normalizing to some other metric that would consider the relative strength between years somehow?

If you've got an open dialogue with him, it would be fun if he could address any of those questions as well. But again, I'm not expecting answers. No need to press. I'm just curious more than anything.

I'll hit him with it tomorrow and see but I assume he might want to keep some methods to himself but maybe it is just a quick fun exercise he was doing and sending out to those that email him information each week during the season as I have been done...not sure but I like it.

[TennBison]

Step the **** up then. We're clearly not coming down to your level.




JMU football spending: $10.11MM
Montana State football spending: $6.44MM
Montana football spending: $6.11MM
NDSU football spending: $5.28MM
Illinois State football spending: $4.02MM
Austin Peay football spending: $3.76MM
FCS Median football spending: $3.74MM
Northern Iowa football spending: $3.55MM
Weber State football spending: $3.55MM


JMU proving that you can't by a championship. Throwing money at it is not working. Close...........but just not the answer.

[X-Factor]

I'm foolishly optimistic that the Griz will get to the point where they can at least give NDSU a game in the near future. I think Hauck and his staff know what it's going to take personnel-wise to get there, and are as hungry as the fans are to get it done.

Believe me I’d love it for Montana to challenge us and get a good rivalry going with some Frisco games at stake, preferably in a larger venue to handle 40k attendance, even if that meant us losing one. I’d go just for the atmosphere. It would make the games so much more interesting, and I agree with earlier comments that NDSU winning isn’t helping FCS anymore.

However, It’s not going to happen anytime soon. NDSU is going to runaway with the subdivision locked up with ease for the next 2-3 years and it doesn’t matter what the other teams do. You will see domination beyond anything in the past. It is what it is and I’m just going to sit back and enjoy it as a Bison fan. Next few year’s Bison teams should be legit AP top 25. We will see

[Bisonoline]

Believe me I’d love it for Montana to challenge us and get a good rivalry going with some Frisco games at stake, preferably in a larger venue to handle 40k attendance, even if that meant us losing one. I’d go just for the atmosphere. It would make the games so much more interesting, and I agree with earlier comments that NDSU winning isn’t helping FCS anymore.

However, It’s not going to happen anytime soon. NDSU is going to runaway with the subdivision locked up with ease for the next 2-3 years and it doesn’t matter what the other teams do. You will see domination beyond anything in the past. It is what it is and I’m just going to sit back and enjoy it as a Bison fan. Next few year’s Bison teams should be legit AP top 25. We will see


Having the Griz back up to snuff would be good for the FCS.

[Daytripper]

Yes, very interesting. If I'm not mistaken there are only 3 teams on that list that didn't win titles: 2017 JMU, 2019 JMU, and 1996 Montana.

Also interesting that 9 of the top 14 and 11 of the top 22 have been teams from the last 9 years. Is FCS football getting better???

Would have hoped the 2011 Sam Houston team that went undefeated into the natty but lost to NDSU could of been on that list. That was a damn good team.

[dewey]

Having the Griz back up to snuff would be good for the FCS.

Absolutely agree!

Dewey

[NY Crusader 2010]

Absolutely agree!

Dewey

And Delaware. And Youngstown State (2017 not withstanding). And McNeese. And Sam Houston State. And Jacksonville State. And Lehigh. And Furman.

[Redbird 4th & short]

And Delaware. And Youngstown State (2017 not withstanding). And McNeese. And Sam Houston State. And Jacksonville State. And Lehigh. And Furman.
I think Big Sky's improvement at the top (besides EWU) had been good for FCS. Regionally, I think it would be really good for FCS if Southland had more teams competing at high level .. this year seemed like an improvement with 3 stronger bids, and IMO certainnly more deserving than the 3 bids they got last year .. especially with SoCon slipping further this year. As for Colonial, JMU has been carrying them of late ... while they are deep with pretty good teams, the quality at top of conference has slipped. But having strong teams spread across country .. West (Big Sky), Midwest (MVFC), South (Southland) and East (Colonial) .. I think helps with rankings, playoff and top 8 seed chatter across the entire country.

Now we just need someone to knock NDSU off their throne a little more often. Someone besides JMU.