APP STATE VS MICHIGAN

[jonmac]

Any of you App State fans planning on making the trip to Ann Arbor? Or any of the rest of the FCS fans too for that matter?

[Grizlaw]

Any of you App State fans planning on making the trip to Ann Arbor? Or any of the rest of the FCS fans too for that matter?

I may go; not sure yet. One of my best friends lives in Detroit and is a Michigan alum and season ticket holder, and I always go to one game per year there. I am toying with going there for the ASU game (although it's a little hard to justify in a year where Oregon, Notre Dame and Ohio State all play in Ann Arbor too, and my friend would probably give me a ticket to any one of those games).

It's a difficult game for me though, loyalty-wise. I always cheer hard for I-AA teams over I-A teams, but I also have some loyalty to Michigan, and losing to ASU would absolutely kill their season.

[BigApp]

I am. However the decision has yet to be made whether or not I'll be a veral batchelor or not that weekend...

[PantherRob82]

I'm debating going. May be too long of a drive considering I plan to make all of UNI's road games and maybe GSU-SDSU.

[james_lawfirm]

I am going with my wife & 2 sons. We plan to toodle around Sunday & go over to Hamilton to the see Hamilton Tiger Cats (w/ Richie Williams & Davon Fowlkes & Wayne Smith - former ASU players) on Monday at 1:00. Then, fly back on Tues. Too bad my boys will have to miss school on Tues. - they're just heartbroken. Not.

[asu3peat]

Some friends and I are making the trek up to Ann Arbor. We are trying to rent an RV and make it a true road trip. I can't wait to see the "Big House" and all the tradition that goes with it.

[Ivytalk]

My partner Steinmetz is a big UM fan, and we go to Ann Arbor every other year for a game. This is our year to go, and we may pick that one.

[jonmac]

Where are ya'll planning on getting your tickets?

[SoCon48]

Can't afford it!!!

[asu70]

Any of you App State fans planning on making the trip to Ann Arbor? Or any of the rest of the FCS fans too for that matter?

We have 24 out of our tailgating group at App that's planning on making the trip.

[Kiss My Apps]

Hamilton Tiger Cats (w/ Richie Williams & Davon Fowlkes & Wayne Smith - former ASU players)


Wayne Smith no longer plays for the Ti-Cats, he was traded to the Saskatchewan Roughriders last season. You may, however, be able to see William Mayfield if he makes the team.

[EmeryZach]

Should be a lot of fun for you guys. You'll be surrounded by millions of drunk Michigan fans yelling at you and you'll be outnumbered 50 to 1, kind of like how I felt in Chattanooga last year with you guys xlolx , but it should be a crazy time. You should all go and show your FCS support. Plus, with Armanti you never know how close they might be able to keep it (for the first 15 mins atleast xsmiley_wix ). I think fans from any FCS school should go to the games where they play Bowl Subdivision teams. I am planning on going to Boston College to see the UMass game. Good luck guys.

[james_lawfirm]

Should be a lot of fun for you guys. You'll be surrounded by millions of drunk Michigan fans yelling at you and you'll be outnumbered 50 to 1, kind of like how I felt in Chattanooga last year with you guys xlolx , but it should be a crazy time. You should all go and show your FCS support. Plus, with Armanti you never know how close they might be able to keep it (for the first 15 mins atleast xsmiley_wix ). I think fans from any FCS school should go to the games where they play Bowl Subdivision teams. I am planning on going to Boston College to see the UMass game. Good luck guys.

Thanks, Emery. But, there were more UMass fans in Chatty than there will be ASU fans at the Big House. Gulp!

But, I think it will be a blast.

[PantherRob82]

Where are ya'll planning on getting your tickets?

Michigan fans who could care less.

[patssle]

It should be a great experience. When SHSU played the defending "national champions" Longhorns, we played the best game we could despite the score. We got a standing ovation from the TEXAS fans after that game, they knew we had played the best we could given the circumstances. It was one of those where the score didn't matter, you were happy with the teams performance and how they carried themselves.

[goasu984Life]

Wife's grandparents live in Michigan, and I think we are going to go up and stay with them and then go to the game. We're still debating it, but we are leaning toward it.

[Appstate29]

me and crew are headed up friends uncle has place near Ann Arbor, we will show Umich how to do it right!

[Gil Dobie]

Good Luck App St, hope you beat the Wolverines. xthumbsupx

[AppMan]

Hotel rooms are booked, just waiting on the ticket info. My son and I are driving up on Thursday and have planned a stop in South Bend to see the College Football Hall of Fame.

[appfan2008]

my fiance and i are way to poor to make that trip... really wish we could

[BigApp]

But, there were more UMass fans in Chatty than there will be ASU fans at the Big House. Gulp!



I might be inclined to take that bet.

[CopperCat]

I might be inclined to take that bet.

I don't think that would be wise.....

[BigApp]

we shall see...

[appfan2008]

i would guess asu would have about 4-5 thousand at michigan... any chance we will get that game on tv down here in nc?

[CopperCat]

i would guess asu would have about 4-5 thousand at michigan... any chance we will get that game on tv down here in nc?

It might even be on ESPNU or something, you never know (although they would have said that by now wouldn't they?) Your media markets over there might get you the game somehow, or at least I think they would try given the high profile of both teams.

[james_lawfirm]

I might be inclined to take that bet.

BigApp:
I figure there were about 4k - 5k UMass fans in Chatty. From what I have heard on AGS & other places, that's is about the number of ASU fans who will be in Ann Arbor. The big difference though is that while 4,500 fans stand out in a stadium that holds 25,000, in one that holds 100k, that same number of fans will be virtually invisible.

[SoCon48]

i would guess asu would have about 4-5 thousand at michigan... any chance we will get that game on tv down here in nc?

Sure. Two. Slim and none.
I wish I were wrong on this one because I can't afford to travel up to A Arbor for this one.

[ucdtim17]

U-M needs to address academics to skeptics
Jim Carty (FWIW - Carty is the M beat writer. He also use to cover Rutgers for the Star-Ledger)

Here's what should bother Michigan football coach Lloyd Carr, athletic director Bill Martin and school president Mary Sue Coleman:

The most common reaction to former quarterback Jim Harbaugh's recent claims that the University of Michigan allows too many borderline football recruits into school, and then steers those recruits into easy majors, was agreement.

Absolutely cynical agreement that, yeah, of course academics are being compromised for football.

E-mail after e-mail rolled in accusing both Harbaugh and myself of playing Captain Renault in "Casablanca'' - shocked, shocked to find that this was happening.

That's how it works, they believe, even at Michigan, because that's what you have to do to win.

And most of the people writing viewed winning as so important that they appeared to be just fine with shuffling a few bad students in and out of the program to achieve that goal.

Here's a typical sample:

You have been around college football for years. You know about the academic struggles that players at U-M have faced; the (recruits) who had to go to prep school before coming to Michigan. It is no secret that athletes, by and large, do not have the same academic qualifications that regular students have. You have known this for years. In fact everyone who follows college sports knows that.

The thing is, anyone who spends any time around college athletics, including the Michigan football team, knows that accusation is unfair.

Many - if not most - athletes at Michigan are as accomplished in the classroom as on the field.

And while there are certainly players on Carr's team who would never have been admitted to Michigan without the special considerations given to high-profile football recruits, they are a minority to the players who would be indistinguishable from any other Michigan student if you took them out of the football program and its 40-plus hours a week of commitment.

Again, if you're around Michigan's athletes, this is obvious.

Perhaps that's why Michigan officials do such a ham-handed job of defending the program's academic reputation, in the process actually fostering the perception they're trying to change.

Harbaugh's comments have brought to light two academic issues related to football:

First, that 82 percent of scholarship football players who have declared a major are pursuing a degree in general studies, compared to just 3 percent of the overall student body.

Second, that in the last four graduating classes measured by the NCAA, just 38 percent of African-American football players have received their Michigan degrees.

These are significant numbers.

When more than four-fifths of your football team is clustered in one academic area, you've not only created a situation ripe for academic fraud, you've set up the perception that general studies is the least-demanding route to a Michigan degree.

Over time, that perception will make a general studies degree significantly less valuable, if not worthless.

And if six out of every 10 African-American recruits are - for whatever reason - not graduating, that hurts the kids involved, future recruiting and the university's overall reputation.

Like it or not, it looks like Michigan is using those kids for their football-playing abilities, either by admitting them into an environment they're not prepared to compete in, or by not doing enough to keep them on a degree track once they're here.

Yet Michigan officials clearly are not bothered by either of these statistics.

When The News talked to athletic director Bill Martin and admissions director Ted Spencer in the wake of Harbaugh's comments, both defended the way Michigan does business. Spencer specifically explained the low graduation rate for black athletes as a greater problem many institutions struggle with.

"Sometimes we forget in America, there are some major climate differences on our campuses,'' Spencer said. "There are kids who are not majority kids who are on these campuses (and) leave campuses for reasons other than academics - the climate issues.''

Yet Stanford graduated more than 90 percent of its black football players over the same span, and six other Big Ten schools graduated a higher percentage than Michigan. We're not talking 10 kids here, either, but the average of four recruiting classes.

What's the difference in climate at those places?

Shouldn't that question be asked?

Yet neither Martin nor Spencer suggested any action would, or should, be taken to either improve the graduation rate of black football players or examine whether it's a good idea to have almost 80 percent of your scholarship football players pursuing a general studies degree.

That's a missed opportunity.

It's the kind of overconfidence and just-trust-us attitude that creates a situation where most of the general public views football players and other athletes as lesser students.

Especially when Michigan was one of just four schools in the Big Ten to refuse to release test score data for football recruits to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune last fall.

Michigan State had no problem releasing its scores, even though they were among the conference's lowest averages.

When you hide those numbers, you're undercutting the very student-athletes you claim to be so proud of. When Michigan refuses such a simple request that most of conference competition meets, you begin to wonder what the Wolverines are hiding.

It's Michigan that creates that doubt, no one else.

It's Michigan that has reacted to Harbaugh's criticism not with a confident statement that it will take major steps to graduate more black athletes and encourage football players to seek more diverse majors, but with the almost comical bravado of the athletic director essentially challenging Stanford to a football game.

That'll show 'em, Bill.

Yep, you can kick Stanford's butt by five or six touchdowns.

The question is, are you OK with leaving a few kids behind to do that?

Until no one's even asking that question, you can do better.

There's no shame in admitting that.

In fact, it's the first step toward proving Harbaugh wrong.

[PhantomCAT]

I'd go, just to see you folks get piss pounded!

[CopperCat]

I'd go, just to see you folks get piss pounded!

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

And wow! Imagine that! Michigan has academic struggles too?!?!?!?

Better fire the coach.xrolleyesx

[BeauFoster]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

And wow! Imagine that! Michigan has academic struggles too?!?!?!?

Better fire the coach.xrolleyesx


I know plenty of UM fans that would love to fire Carr...




:p

[CopperCat]

I know plenty of UM fans that would love to fire Carr...
:p

Michigan is WAY too involved in winning for that to happen. Unlike smaller schools, bigger schools have much more at stake (aka $$$$) in winning. If they fire Carr, they may be hurting their potential to make the $$$.

#999..............

[NDSUFREAK]

If he doesn't win them a BCS then it will be a short drop with a sudden stop.

[james_lawfirm]

I'd go, just to see you folks get piss pounded!

Where's the love?

[ucdtim17]

Michigan is a school that should be setting the standard for academic and athletic excellence, with Notre Dame. They have every advantage there is; MSU needs to take chances on California JC kids to compete; Michigan does not. They should be better and hold themselves to a higher standard

[CopperCat]

If he doesn't win them a BCS then it will be a short drop with a sudden stop.

Lets keep it on topic here, its about FCS (ASU) playing the FBS.

As much as I dislike ASU, this game is actually really important for all of us. If ASU comes out and puts the fear in Michigan early on, people may begin to respect the rest of us a little bit more. Last year when MSU beat CU, it was Lee Corso's upset of the day. I don't think ASU has a snowball's chance in hell of beating UM, but if they go out and play a good game, it will be a good day for all of FCS. As a fan of FCS football, I really do genuinely hope that ASU has a good game in Ann Arbor. I have no doubt that ASU fans will follow their team. Paint the place black!

[SoCon48]

Lets keep it on topic here, its about FCS (ASU) playing the FBS.

As much as I dislike ASU, this game is actually really important for all of us. If ASU comes out and puts the fear in Michigan early on, people may begin to respect the rest of us a little bit more. Last year when MSU beat CU, it was Lee Corso's upset of the day. I don't think ASU has a snowball's chance in hell of beating UM, but if they go out and play a good game, it will be a good day for all of FCS. As a fan of FCS football, I really do genuinely hope that ASU has a good game in Ann Arbor. I have no doubt that ASU fans will follow their team. Paint the place black!

App made a good showing at then #7 LSU the other year. Couple breaks and the game would have gone to the wire even thoiugh LSU still most assuredly had the far better talent.

[SoCon48]

Where's the love?

I mean, james, do we really care what some road kill cat thinks about our ASU?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomCAT
I'd go, just to see you folks get piss pounded!

Where's the love?

[SoCon48]

I might be inclined to take that bet.


I would, too, BA, if the count could be scientifically determined.

[SoCon48]

Where's the love?

Oh, I almsot forgot to ask. Do you think piss-pounded means what we did to some BobCats last Fall???? xrulesx xrulesx xrulesx

[PantherRob82]

I'd like to think ASU will be close for 3 quarters, but it'll be just out of range in the 4th, but i'm not sure what's reasonable to think.

[james_lawfirm]

Lets keep it on topic here, its about FCS (ASU) playing the FBS.

As much as I dislike ASU, this game is actually really important for all of us. If ASU comes out and puts the fear in Michigan early on, people may begin to respect the rest of us a little bit more. Last year when MSU beat CU, it was Lee Corso's upset of the day. I don't think ASU has a snowball's chance in hell of beating UM, but if they go out and play a good game, it will be a good day for all of FCS. As a fan of FCS football, I really do genuinely hope that ASU has a good game in Ann Arbor. I have no doubt that ASU fans will follow their team. Paint the place black!

Well said, sir. For that statement alone, I would buy you a beer, should we ever meet. :)

[james_lawfirm]

I mean, james, do we really care what some road kill cat thinks about our ASU?

Nope.

[Mr. C]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

And wow! Imagine that! Michigan has academic struggles too?!?!?!?

Better fire the coach.xrolleyesx
I'll do you one better. Fire the AD and the school president.

Pretty awful performance academically from a school that is suppose to be good at such stuff.

[Appstate29]

I'd like to think ASU will be close for 3 quarters, but it'll be just out of range in the 4th, but i'm not sure what's reasonable to think.

I don't think thats unreasonable at all Rob...in fact our game against LSU was about that (14-0 after three quarters) as an ASU fan, of course I'll be expecting a win, but proud of my team no matter what the score is.

[PantherRob82]

I don't think thats unreasonable at all Rob...in fact our game against LSU was about that (14-0 after three quarters) as an ASU fan, of course I'll be expecting a win, but proud of my team no matter what the score is.

Should be fun regardless. i'm hoping if I don't go it will be on ESPN gameplan.

[CopperCat]

I'll do you one better. Fire the AD and the school president.

Pretty awful performance academically from a school that is suppose to be good at such stuff.

AAAYYYYYYYYMMMMENNN!xnodx xthumbsupx

[Mr. C]

I don't think thats unreasonable at all Rob...in fact our game against LSU was about that (14-0 after three quarters) as an ASU fan, of course I'll be expecting a win, but proud of my team no matter what the score is.

The LSU game should have been 14-all or 14-10 at the least. Kevin Richardson inexplicably dropped a TD pass in the third quarter and the Mountaineers marched down to a first down on the LSU 11 on the next drive before a bad play call killed their momemtum. Then Julian Rauch hit the right upright with a chippy field goal attempt.

Considering that the 2005 LSU team was better than I think this Michigan one will be, I think this is a game that the Mountaineers can hang around in.

[appfan2008]

The LSU game should have been 14-all or 14-10 at the least. Kevin Richardson inexplicably dropped a TD pass in the third quarter and the Mountaineers marched down to a first down on the LSU 11 on the next drive before a bad play call killed their momemtum. Then Julian Rauch hit the right upright with a chippy field goal attempt.

Considering that the 2005 LSU team was better than I think this Michigan one will be, I think this is a game that the Mountaineers can hang around in.

that game showed that asu can at least keep up with a top ten team

[SoCon48]

56-14 Michigan. I hate to think that way, but...

[SoCon48]

that game showed that asu can at least keep up with a top ten team


When the moon is in the Seventh Hour
And Jupiter aligns with Mars

The talent gap is just too much for my Apps most Saturdays vs competition of this level.

[GGASU]

When the moon is in the Seventh Hour
And Jupiter aligns with Mars

The talent gap is just too much for my Apps most Saturdays vs competition of this level.

Muck Fichigan....nothing but an overrated team out of an overrated conference.

If ASU was in the FBS they would be receiving votes in the top 25.

Mountaineers by 7....Michigan scores late to make it respectable.

[james_lawfirm]

Muck Fichigan....nothing but an overrated team out of an overrated conference.

If ASU was in the FBS they would be receiving votes in the top 25.

Mountaineers by 7....Michigan scores late to make it respectable.

Gulp.

[Saint3333]

Muck Fichigan....nothing but an overrated team out of an overrated conference.

If ASU was in the FBS they would be receiving votes in the top 25.

Mountaineers by 7....Michigan scores late to make it respectable.

I hope you're right, but put down the beer and push the keyboard away until morningxsmiley_wix . If ASU were receiving votes they'd still be way behind the likely top 10 Michigan team.

Michigan by 24.

[BigApp]

Muck Fichigan....nothing but an overrated team out of an overrated conference.

If ASU was in the FBS they would be receiving votes in the top 25.

Mountaineers by 7....Michigan scores late to make it respectable.

I like the way you think!

[SoCon48]

I like the way you think!

Me too even though he must have had a 12 pack.xnodx

JC

[rjg129]

im planning to go....i gonna take a chance on getting tickets at the game though

[CopperCat]

Muck Fichigan....nothing but an overrated team out of an overrated conference.

If ASU was in the FBS they would be receiving votes in the top 25.

Mountaineers by 7....Michigan scores late to make it respectable.

I'm speechless.xeyebrowx

[DetroitFlyer]

I am not a fan of "money" games if the sole purpose is to take a beating to gain a payday. Playing at Michigan offers a couple of advantages.... How may FCS players are ever going to be able to play in front of 106,000 plus fans? It has to help recruiting when a kid knows that he might get to play at a Big 10 venue like Michigan or tOSU in YSU's case. In ASU's case, everything would have to line up perfectly for a victory at Michigan. Keep in mind, ASU could not even defeat NC State last year.... I would think that if ASU hangs to within two to three TD's it will be a good effort. My biggest worry would be the ASU QB. You sure do not want him to get hurt on a scramble during the first game of the season. Michigan will not want to lose to an FCS team anymore than ASU would want to lose to Lenoir Rhyne, ( or however you spell that Division II team's name ). I will not be suprised if the scores of both games are similar with Michigan and ASU winning against the lower division team....

[phillyAPP]

I am not a fan of "money" games if the sole purpose is to take a beating to gain a payday. Playing at Michigan offers a couple of advantages.... How may FCS players are ever going to be able to play in front of 106,000 plus fans? It has to help recruiting when a kid knows that he might get to play at a Big 10 venue like Michigan or tOSU in YSU's case. In ASU's case, everything would have to line up perfectly for a victory at Michigan. Keep in mind, ASU could not even defeat NC State last year.... I would think that if ASU hangs to within two to three TD's it will be a good effort. My biggest worry would be the ASU QB. You sure do not want him to get hurt on a scramble during the first game of the season. Michigan will not want to lose to an FCS team anymore than ASU would want to lose to Lenoir Rhyne, ( or however you spell that Division II team's name ). I will not be suprised if the scores of both games are similar with Michigan and ASU winning against the lower division team....

Accurate on all points. Don't get caught up in crazy APP excitement. There are risks for Michigan also. Can you imagine if we sack and hurt thier QB.Blah blah blah and we (Michigan paid them to hurt our QB). Someone could get in real trouble in MI.

[BeauFoster]

Accurate on all points. Don't get caught up in crazy APP excitement. There are risks for Michigan also. Can you imagine if we sack and hurt thier QB.Blah blah blah and we (Michigan paid them to hurt our QB). Someone could get in real trouble in MI.



You are dead on with the injury issue. Bad things can happen at anytime. I know how worried I was last year at Gardner Webb when Tharrington went down. It turned out to be a bruised knee, but my first reaction was anger for losing a really good player in a "meaningless" game.

[bluehenbillk]

I'd encourage all App fans to go to Ann Arbor, it'll be hot, believe me I've been there for early September games, but it's a once-in-a-lifetime game & one you'll kick yourself for years if you miss. As for the competitiveness, I'd expect some App fans to naturally think the game will be close, but I can't see UM scoring less than 40, they have maybe the most explosive offense in America, a 4-year starter at QB, a 4-year starter at RB, the biggest deep threat at WR there is & a top-5 pick anchoring the OL.

[GoGuins]

Accurate on all points. Don't get caught up in crazy APP excitement. There are risks for Michigan also. Can you imagine if we sack and hurt thier QB.Blah blah blah and we (Michigan paid them to hurt our QB). Someone could get in real trouble in MI.

If Michigan is fortunate enough to generate a large lead or the other scenario happens (I won't even say it), you'll hear a deafening roar from the Michigan faithful because that will mean true Fr. QB Ryan Mallett, all 6'6 245 lbs of him, will be making his first ever apperance in a game. For those of you who don't know about Mallett, he was the #2 rated (behind ND's Clausen) QB in the nation coming out of Texarkana HS. Yes he is a true Fr, but he won't play like one. He has a Jamarcus Russell type arm and enrolled early at UM.

It seems like yesterday when Chad Henne started against Miami, OH as a true Fr. in the 1st game of 2004 when starter Matt Gutierrez (Michigan/Idaho St/NE Patriots) went down before the 1st game with a shoulder injury

[SoCon48]

You are dead on with the injury issue. Bad things can happen at anytime. I know how worried I was last year at Gardner Webb when Tharrington went down. It turned out to be a bruised knee, but my first reaction was anger for losing a really good player in a "meaningless" game.

That's the way 'Bama felt when their heralded QB got knocked out for the season by a Catamount in their early 2004 game.

[SoCon48]

I am not a fan of "money" games if the sole purpose is to take a beating to gain a payday. Playing at Michigan offers a couple of advantages.... How may FCS players are ever going to be able to play in front of 106,000 plus fans? It has to help recruiting when a kid knows that he might get to play at a Big 10 venue like Michigan or tOSU in YSU's case. In ASU's case, everything would have to line up perfectly for a victory at Michigan. Keep in mind, ASU could not even defeat NC State last year.... I would think that if ASU hangs to within two to three TD's it will be a good effort. My biggest worry would be the ASU QB. You sure do not want him to get hurt on a scramble during the first game of the season. Michigan will not want to lose to an FCS team anymore than ASU would want to lose to Lenoir Rhyne, ( or however you spell that Division II team's name ). I will not be suprised if the scores of both games are similar with Michigan and ASU winning against the lower division team....

Keep in mind, ASU could not even defeat NC State last year....

The State game example is a little trite and overblown.
That was pre-Edwards getting the start and game week reps. Entirely diff team post Edwards.
Too, Coach Moore didn't fully open the play book vs State as Elder was having trouble having time to do jack crap. Edwards was much faster that Elder the remainder of the season.
But you're right. ASU has little chance to win butif they can hang in there until the 4th quarter considering the severe inequality of scholarship allowances.

[youwouldno]

App St has zero chance of beating Michigan. But they will get props if they mildly slow them down and 'only' lose by 3-4 TD's, considering the past praise of their performance against LSU.

[SoCon48]

I don't what you read, the only praise for App's efforts vs LSU were from App fans. Everyone else said LSU could have buried us anytime they chose.
We took Auburn to the wire one year and got zero praise. I mean we had them crapping in their knickers until the last 58 seconds or so.
IMOP, a middle of the pac SEC team is as good as most B-10 front runners most years. This Michigan team may be an exception, but they have more downsides than most SEC teams.

I'm thinking Michigan by 45 pts and App only scoring a 6 pointer once.
But playing at the Big House...that will certainly be intimidating in itself.
If Michigan's stadium caved into tomorrow and they absolutely had to come to Boone, I'd say Michigan only by 20 pts.

[SoCon48]

App St has zero chance of beating Michigan. But they will get props if they mildly slow them down and 'only' lose by 3-4 TD's, considering the past praise of their performance against LSU.

PS. No team has 0 chance vs any other team. Any Given Saturday.
But I will say this, if App has 1 in a million chance, Furman has 1 in 10 Mil.

[youwouldno]

PS. No team has 0 chance vs any other team. Any Given Saturday.
But I will say this, if App has 1 in a million chance, Furman has 1 in 10 Mil.

I doubt App is 10 times better than Furman in 2007. If so you should blow us out in Greenville and win every FCS game by at least 4-5 TD's. And yes there is such a thing as zero chance.

Technically, App might have a 1 in 1 trillion chance, but it would involve some unreal number of Michigan injuries, like 30 in the first half, and a bunch of huge plays by App on both sides of the ball.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I'd encourage all App fans to go to Ann Arbor, it'll be hot, believe me I've been there for early September games, but it's a once-in-a-lifetime game & one you'll kick yourself for years if you miss. As for the competitiveness, I'd expect some App fans to naturally think the game will be close, but I can't see UM scoring less than 40, they have maybe the most explosive offense in America, a 4-year starter at QB, a 4-year starter at RB, the biggest deep threat at WR there is & a top-5 pick anchoring the OL.

100% agree! Get your asses to Ann Arbor!! Seriously, no matter what your expenses are, find a way to make it happen. This is too big a venue and opportunity not to support your team in person. You never know when an opportunity like this will come again, and the memories are sure to last much longer than any debts you incur in travel expenses.

If Ball St. could take UM to the wire last year, then anything is possible. Don't hate yourself for years by missing it!

My prediction: Michigan 34 - App St. 26 just like the Cardinals last year.

[GoGuins]

Here are some predictions, although I see a blowout, I don't see anything like 63-0

http://www.umgoblue.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13561

[GoGuins]

100% agree! Get your asses to Ann Arbor!! Seriously, no matter what your expenses are, find a way to make it happen. This is too big a venue and opportunity not to support your team in person. You never know when an opportunity like this will come again, and the memories are sure to last much longer than any debts you incur in travel expenses.

If Ball St. could take UM to the wire last year, then anything is possible. Don't hate yourself for years by missing it!

My prediction: Michigan 34 - App St. 26 just like the Cardinals last year.


If you weren't there or didn't witness it, this game was over before half, many starters were taken out and a couple fluke plays later Ball St was back in it.

[Saint3333]

I'd encourage all App fans to go to Ann Arbor, it'll be hot, believe me I've been there for early September games, but it's a once-in-a-lifetime game & one you'll kick yourself for years if you miss. As for the competitiveness, I'd expect some App fans to naturally think the game will be close, but I can't see UM scoring less than 40, they have maybe the most explosive offense in America, a 4-year starter at QB, a 4-year starter at RB, the biggest deep threat at WR there is & a top-5 pick anchoring the OL.

In 2006 Michigan scored 40 twice and 30 only 6 times. Average FBS teams - Vandy, Ball State, and Indiana held Michigan under 40.

In 2006 NC State scored 4 more points on ASU than their average.

In 2005 LSU scored 3 points less on ASU than their average.

Michigan average 29 ppg last year. I don't think Michigan is a team that runs the score up. The key to keeping it close (within 3 TDs) with be ASU's rushing and TOP.

[GoGuins]

In 2006 Michigan scored 40 twice and 30 only 6 times. Average FBS teams - Vandy, Ball State, and Indiana held Michigan under 40.

In 2006 NC State scored 4 more points on ASU than their average.

In 2005 LSU scored 3 points less on ASU than their average.

Michigan average 29 ppg last year. I don't think Michigan is a team that runs the score up. The key to keeping it close (within 3 TDs) with be ASU's rushing and TOP.

I think the line will be +30 and Michigan will cover

[phillyAPP]

I don't what you read, the only praise for App's efforts vs LSU were from App fans. Everyone else said LSU could have buried us anytime they chose.
We took Auburn to the wire one year and got zero praise. I mean we had them crapping in their knickers until the last 58 seconds or so.
IMOP, a middle of the pac SEC team is as good as most B-10 front runners most years. This Michigan team may be an exception, but they have more downsides than most SEC teams.

I'm thinking Michigan by 45 pts and App only scoring a 6 pointer once.
But playing at the Big House...that will certainly be intimidating in itself.
If Michigan's stadium caved into tomorrow and they absolutely had to come to Boone, I'd say Michigan only by 20 pts.

You weren't there and I was. Every LSU fan that spoke to us said we played LSU better than most FBS teams. LSU coaches interviewed after the game were VERY impressed with the quality of athletes APP played with. LSU coach said if anybody in SEC had a quarterback like Richie Williams ,LSU would have real problems. APP has played very well in the last 3 or 4 years against FBS teams. The last 3or 4 years are what you can gauge APP by. We will see in Sept.

In addition, they thought so poorly of APP, we have an LSU transfer this year that barely knows were APP is located. He is from TX.

Michigan is like Penn State and many times plays down to their opponents and that could scare the UM fans this year.

[GoGuins]

You weren't there and I was. Every LSU fan that spoke to us said we played LSU better than most FBS teams. LSU coaches interviewed after the game were VERY impressed with the quality of athletes APP played with. LSU coach said if anybody in SEC had a quarterback like Richie Williams ,LSU would have real problems. APP has played very well in the last 3 or 4 years against FBS teams. The last 3or 4 years are what you can gauge APP by. We will see in Sept.

In addition, they thought so poorly of APP, we have an LSU transfer this year that barely knows were APP is located. He is from TX.

Michigan is like Penn State and many times plays down to their opponents and that could scare the UM fans this year.

A couple things about Michigan in ASU's favor

1) They do tend to play down to their competition

2) They traditionally start out slow in opening games. After ASU, Michigan hosts Oregon & Notre Dame so I don't know how much of their playbook they will show. I see Hart getting a lot of carries. Then again, they might want to get this game over early so some of their starters can sit not to risk injuries.

Michigan is deep at WR & RB but thin at QB (true Fr behind Henne)

[NoSpinZone]

You weren't there and I was. Every LSU fan that spoke to us said we played LSU better than most FBS teams. LSU coaches interviewed after the game were VERY impressed with the quality of athletes APP played with. LSU coach said if anybody in SEC had a quarterback like Richie Williams ,LSU would have real problems. APP has played very well in the last 3 or 4 years against FBS teams. The last 3or 4 years are what you can gauge APP by. We will see in Sept..

What did Kansas fans say after they beat you guys by 30 that same championship year? You guys tout that LSU moral victory but 0-24 was the final score. You didn't even score?? Looking back over the last 3 or 4 years like you said to, I see a bad NC State beat you handily by 13, Wyoming beat you by 46, Hawaii beat you by 23, Marshall by 33, Kansas by 28. What are you talking about the last 3 or 4 years? That's not good at all IMO. The only game under 3 TD's was NCSU and they won 3 games. Those teams aren't Michigan either.

[phillyAPP]

What did Kansas fans say after they beat you guys by 30 that same year? You guys have that LSU moral victory but you didn't even scratch?? 0-24 was the final score.

TOUCHE' !!!

It was K-State and your right. IMO the team has changed mentally and physically since then. Its all bull poop until the game. You can think APP will get beat by 30+ and i believe it will be within 20. Both opinions can happen. I hope mine is closer. And I know they will respect APP after the game,just as many of the other SoCon teams will threaten FBS teams.

[Benne]

I hope the best for you, but this is going to be ugly.

[MYTAPPY]

TOUCHE' !!!

It was K-State and your right.

What are you smoking philly?? It was Kansas, not K-State.

[bluehenbillk]

UM ended last season on a down note, losing to Ohio St & USC, that's stuck in their craw all year long, they'll probably be chomping at the bit to get back on the field. I see a lot of Hart early on.

[Saint3333]

Fine, ASU loses to Michigan by 100 but goes on to win their 3rd straight SoCon crown, makes a deep run into the playoffs and maybe even a 3rd straight National Championship.

Seems like everyone just WANTS to see ASU get killed...

What about YSU vs. OSU? Which game do you think will be more intertaining?

[GGASU]

What did Kansas fans say after they beat you guys by 30 that same championship year? You guys tout that LSU moral victory but 0-24 was the final score. You didn't even score?? Looking back over the last 3 or 4 years like you said to, I see a bad NC State beat you handily by 13, Wyoming beat you by 46, Hawaii beat you by 23, Marshall by 33, Kansas by 28. What are you talking about the last 3 or 4 years? That's not good at all IMO. The only game under 3 TD's was NCSU and they won 3 games. Those teams aren't Michigan either.


The LSU game was a moral victory not because of the score, but because of the competition ASU gave them. Even the LSU announcers were claiming the game should have been tied entering the 4th quarter..(two wide open dropped td passes)

In the NC State game we were running an offense that requires a scat back quarterback with a drop back passer. Play it again at the end of the season and ASU wins by double digits.

[X-Factor]

Fine, ASU loses to Michigan by 100 but goes on to win their 3rd straight SoCon crown, makes a deep run into the playoffs and maybe even a 3rd straight National Championship.

Seems like everyone just WANTS to see ASU get killed...

What about YSU vs. OSU? Which game do you think will be more intertaining?

Who knows, could be either one. I hope both teams put on exceptional games.

However, Ohio State isn't going to be the same team that they were last year. I'm not so sure that it really matters in this case because it is likely that both teams will be steamrolled anyway.

Michigan is likely one of the top 3 teams in the nation behind USC and Florida. OSU somewhere farther down the list.

[jonmac]

It's also very possible that we will be watching the Heisman trophy winner play.
No matter what the outcome is it will be a great experience for our players and fans alike. I have always wanted to go to a game in The Big House. Never did I imagine it would be to see my beloved Mountaineers play the Wolverines. AWESOME!!!!

GOAPPS!!!!!! (All of you other folks would be pulling just as hard if your team was playing Michigan) And Go 'Guins against Ohio State.

[Mr. C]

It's also very possible that we will be watching the Heisman trophy winner play.
No matter what the outcome is it will be a great experience for our players and fans alike. I have always wanted to go to a game in The Big House. Never did I imagine it would be to see my beloved Mountaineers play the Wolverines. AWESOME!!!!

GOAPPS!!!!!! (All of you other folks would be pulling just as hard if your team was playing Michigan) And Go 'Guins against Ohio State.

Armanti Edwards is going to win the Heisman? xlolx xnodx xrotatehx :) :D xrolleyesx xcoolx :p xeyebrowx xsmiley_wix ;)
xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx

[jonmac]

Good one Mr. C. If only!!!!

[Mr. C]

What did Kansas fans say after they beat you guys by 30 that same championship year? You guys tout that LSU moral victory but 0-24 was the final score. You didn't even score?? Looking back over the last 3 or 4 years like you said to, I see a bad NC State beat you handily by 13, Wyoming beat you by 46, Hawaii beat you by 23, Marshall by 33, Kansas by 28. What are you talking about the last 3 or 4 years? That's not good at all IMO. The only game under 3 TD's was NCSU and they won 3 games. Those teams aren't Michigan either.

NoSpin, were you at ANY of those game? Did you see ANY of those games on TV? Didn't think so. The only ones where ASU wasn't competitive were at Hawaii and Wyoming.

Marshall was extremely misleading. App State was in game in the third quarter (with a freshman QB named Richie Williams starting) until a play where Josh Jeffries had a chance to recover a fumble and take it in for a TD that would have given the Mountaineers the lead, but the ball took a funny hop and bounced out of bounds to allow the Herd to retain possession. On the next play, Bryon Leftwich escapes trouble on third and the house and throws one of the most incredible TD passes I've ever seen a college QB throw. Late in the fourth quarter, gutless Bob Pruett has his team run up the score with two TDs against ASU's reserve defense, so he could improve his team's national ranking. Typical Marshall.

ASU has had some difficulty in the red zone in some of these games, but has played more competitively than the scores would indicate. Come by the house sometime, NoSpin. I can pop some of these games into the DVD player and you can see for yourself.

[NoSpinZone]

Seems like everyone just WANTS to see ASU get killed...


Everyone wants ASU to win, but lets get real.



The LSU game was a moral victory not because of the score, but because of the competition ASU gave them. Even the LSU announcers were claiming the game should have been tied entering the 4th quarter..(two wide open dropped td passes)

In the NC State game we were running an offense that requires a scat back quarterback with a drop back passer. Play it again at the end of the season and ASU wins by double digits.

Sounds like if's and maybe's to me. Coaching is part of the game too. It's only one persons fault he didn't play Edwards more than he did in that game. You guys did fine with the other guy winning the championship and talked about how he was the man all summer before you even knew anything about Edwards and now he was the scape goat.

Looking over the box score it doesn't appear it would have mattered. Your star Kevin Richardson got 14 carries for 28 yards 1.8 yards per carry. You had 36 yards rushing all day and 92 total yards all game. You think a true freshman would have done better? NC State mean while had 217 rushing yards rushing 5 yards a carry. To me it sounds like they just man handled you up front on both sides.

[Mr. C]

The LSU game was a moral victory not because of the score, but because of the competition ASU gave them. Even the LSU announcers were claiming the game should have been tied entering the 4th quarter..(two wide open dropped td passes)

In the NC State game we were running an offense that requires a scat back quarterback with a drop back passer. Play it again at the end of the season and ASU wins by double digits.

Minor correction, there was one dropped TD pass at LSU by Kevin Richardson, who took a play fake and went straight up the gut to get well behind the LSU secondary. Richie Williams put a great pass on Richardson's hands, but for one of the few times in his career, Richardson dropped it. On the next drive, ASU had a first down at the LSU 11 after a very nice drive before a bad play call on second down forced the Mountaineers into a third and long situation. Julian Rauch then hit the right upright with a short field goal attempt on fourth down.

Everyone from LSU that I talked to and the guys on the TV broadcast ALL said it was one of the best performances ever by an FCS team against LSU (they also had a lot of respect for Western Illinois in 2003).

[Mr. C]

Everyone wants ASU to win, but lets get real.




Sounds like if's and maybe's to me. Coaching is part of the game too. It's only one persons fault he didn't play Edwards more than he did in that game. You guys did fine with the other guy winning the championship and talked about how he was the man all summer before you even knew anything about Edwards and now he was the scape goat.

Looking over the box score it doesn't appear it would have mattered. Your star Kevin Richardson got 14 carries for 28 yards 1.8 yards per carry. You had 36 yards rushing all day and 92 total yards all game. You think a true freshman would have done better? NC State mean while had 217 rushing yards rushing 5 yards a carry. To me it sounds like they just man handled you up front on both sides.
Again NoSpin, you need to look at the game films to fully understand this game. ASU was starting a QB with a DAMAGED arm. Trey Elder wasn't healthy. NC State had the box stacked to stop the run and Elder didn't have a healthy enough arm to attack the defense, except for one pass to Dexter Jackson that set up a Richardson TD. This was a game that ASU was capable of winning with Armanti Edwards in the lineup.

[BeauFoster]

Everyone wants ASU to win, but lets get real.




Sounds like if's and maybe's to me. Coaching is part of the game too. It's only one persons fault he didn't play Edwards more than he did in that game. You guys did fine with the other guy winning the championship and talked about how he was the man all summer before you even knew anything about Edwards and now he was the scape goat.

Looking over the box score it doesn't appear it would have mattered. Your star Kevin Richardson got 14 carries for 28 yards 1.8 yards per carry. You had 36 yards rushing all day and 92 total yards all game. You think a true freshman would have done better? NC State mean while had 217 rushing yards rushing 5 yards a carry. To me it sounds like they just man handled you up front on both sides.



Jeez, you sound like Bill O'Reilly. Grab one stat and hang onto it for all it's worth. You weren't at the game. You don't know the whole story, you don't know what you are talking about.

[SoCon48]

Originally Posted by NoSpinZone
Everyone wants ASU to win, but lets get real.

Sounds like if's and maybe's to me. Coaching is part of the game too. It's only one persons fault he didn't play Edwards more than he did in that game. You guys did fine with the other guy winning the championship and talked about how he was the man all summer before you even knew anything about Edwards and now he was the scape goat.

Looking over the box score it doesn't appear it would have mattered. Your star Kevin Richardson got 14 carries for 28 yards 1.8 yards per carry. You had 36 yards rushing all day and 92 total yards all game. You think a true freshman would have done better? NC State mean while had 217 rushing yards rushing 5 yards a carry. To me it sounds like they just man handled you up front on both sides.


Jeez, you sound like Bill O'Reilly. Grab one stat and hang onto it for all it's worth. You weren't at the game. You don't know the whole story, you don't know what you are talking about.

Exactly, without a good passing game or threat of one, it's hard as H for a RB to get any yards.
Too, it would have been hard as heck to have gotten Edwards ready to start as a true freshman opening game at a hell hole like Carter-Finley. Even if we had won, Moore would have faced severe criticism for throwing AE in the lion's den.

[SoCon48]

I hope the best for you, but this is going to be ugly.

THAT"S EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT LSU!!
It may well be ugly but not because ASU is vastly inferior.
xcoffeex
We had an ugly game vs UT-C the other year. S--t happens.

At least we got the nads to face Mich in the Big House!!

[g-webb1994]

Appy will not be intimidated by the Big House (which IMO is one of the most overrated home-fields in college sport). Hart will eventually wear down Appy's D with the power run game. Appy will score some points though. I'd say UM 31 Appy 14.

If Ball State can go in there and hang late in the season with UM, Appy sure as heck can in a season opener.

[NoSpinZone]

NoSpin, were you at ANY of those game? Did you see ANY of those games on TV? Didn't think so. The only ones where ASU wasn't competitive were at Hawaii and Wyoming.

Kansas was not compeditive either 29-0 after 3 quarters.



Marshall was extremely misleading. App State was in game in the third quarter (with a freshman QB named Richie Williams starting) until a play where Josh Jeffries had a chance to recover a fumble and take it in for a TD that would have given the Mountaineers the lead, but the ball took a funny hop and bounced out of bounds to allow the Herd to retain possession.

it was 23-10 at halftime and 37-17 at the end of 3 quarters. This doesn't sound compeditive to me.




On the next play, Bryon Leftwich escapes trouble on third and the house and throws one of the most incredible TD passes I've ever seen a college QB throw. Late in the fourth quarter, gutless Bob Pruett has his team run up the score with two TDs against ASU's reserve defense, so he could improve his team's national ranking. Typical Marshall.

The back QB scored the final TD running. It's the defense job to stop the backup. I found this quote from Pruett on leaving Leftwich in one series in the 4th....

"I left some guys in there a little longer than what I usually
do," Pruett said. "I thought we were a little sloppy tonight"



ASU has had some difficulty in the red zone in some of these games, but has played more competitively than the scores would indicate. Come by the house sometime, NoSpin. I can pop some of these games into the DVD player and you can see for yourself.

Most teams can move the ball between the 20's. Especially when these teams were ahead of you guys early. They were probably playing back some and keep everything ahead of them as not to give up something easy since they were up. The redzone is where the good teams make it happen when every thing gets tighter. The guy said you played D1aa's tough the last few years it sure doesn't show where it counts IMO.

[NoSpinZone]

Again NoSpin, you need to look at the game films to fully understand this game. ASU was starting a QB with a DAMAGED arm. Trey Elder wasn't healthy. NC State had the box stacked to stop the run and Elder didn't have a healthy enough arm to attack the defense, except for one pass to Dexter Jackson that set up a Richardson TD. This was a game that ASU was capable of winning with Armanti Edwards in the lineup.

Capable of winning? The other guy said you would win by 2 scores which was what I was responding to. The question you didn't answer is why wasn't he in the game if true? Apparently Edwards played some so why play a guy with damaged arm if true? Sounds like this was a coaching choice and you should blame the coach instead of that guy because apparently he thought the other guy was better at that time. Coaching is a big part of the game. You're giving a pass.

None of that accounts for how easy NCSU apparently rushed the ball. You got to stop them too. It wasn't like NCSU was playing great early in the year looks like they lost to Akron at home the next week and got blew out by Southern Miss the week after. That's not Michigan.

[phillyAPP]

Capable of winning? The other guy said you would win by 2 scores which was what I was responding to. The question you didn't answer is why wasn't he in the game if true? Apparently Edwards played some so why play a guy with damaged arm if true? Sounds like this was a coaching choice and you should blame the coach instead of that guy because apparently he thought the other guy was better at that time. Coaching is a big part of the game. You're giving a pass.

None of that accounts for how easy NCSU apparently rushed the ball. You got to stop them too. It wasn't like NCSU was playing great early in the year looks like they lost to Akron at home the next week and got blew out by Southern Miss the week after. That's not Michigan.

I will say that I am enjoying your arguements NoSpin.

Are you coming to the Michigan game? I'd like to sit with you.

Please come to a few APP games this year. APP isn't perfect like some of us(APP fans) think but we are competitive and GETTING BETTER every game.

If you are ever in the Boone area call Mr.C. and let me know it would be fun to have your view of the replays.

[GoGuins]

At least we got the nads to face Mich in the Big House!!

I respect what you're saying, but Michigan approached ASU for a 12th game, not he other way around. Big bucks for Michigan, extra home game will generate about 6-7 million & big bucks for ASU to show up. I know ASU will do more than just show up, they are there to compete & win, but that's basically the reason for the game

Same reason OSU is playing YSU

[Mr. C]

I don't what you read, the only praise for App's efforts vs LSU were from App fans. Everyone else said LSU could have buried us anytime they chose.
We took Auburn to the wire one year and got zero praise. I mean we had them crapping in their knickers until the last 58 seconds or so.
IMOP, a middle of the pac SEC team is as good as most B-10 front runners most years. This Michigan team may be an exception, but they have more downsides than most SEC teams.

I'm thinking Michigan by 45 pts and App only scoring a 6 pointer once.
But playing at the Big House...that will certainly be intimidating in itself.
If Michigan's stadium caved into tomorrow and they absolutely had to come to Boone, I'd say Michigan only by 20 pts.

You have a wrong impression about what LSU people were saying about the ASU game. The LSU fans and the LSU media were very positive about how well the Mountaineers played. I guarantee you that the Tigers were not trying to take it easy on ASU. They only scored 14 points for the better part of three quarters because that was all they could score. ASU's defense did a great job before getting worn down in the fourth period. I wish that the skeptics (talking about other people here, not you) could see the actual game broadcast of this contest. I saw the game live and have watched it several times on DVD. It was a super performance by ASU and was the one that opened a lot of ours eyes to the fact that the Mountaineers could contend and win the national championship. Again, the television people were strong in their praise for ASU. The columnists and beat writers said and also wrote very positive things about the Mountaineers, too. I was there and that's what the true picture was.

[Mr. C]

I am beginning to believe that NoSpinZone is simply a guy who likes to argue for argument sake. You argue about games you have NEVER seen, either in person, or on tape. You simply have NO CLUE about what how are arguing about.

You mention the Marshall game being 37-17 after three quarters and that not being competitive. I explained that a bad bounce had caused a fumble recovery that would have gone for a TD by Josh Jeffries to go out of bounds and give the ball back to Marshall. Byron Leftwich threw a TD pass on the next play. So instead of being a 24-23 ASU lead in the third quarter, the game becomes 30-17 Marshall.

Against Kansas, the first half was played virtually even on the field. In the first quarter, Kevin Richardson fumbled a ball non-forced as he was about to score the game's first TD. Julian Rauch also missed a point-blank field goal. One of Kansas' first-half TDs was set up by a questionable unsportsmanlike conduct penalty (we all know how FCS teams get continually hosed in these games, if you have even been to any of them — remember what happened to Furman at North Carolina in 2006?). The game should have been 14-10 at best for Kansas at halftime. That would have totally changed the way the two teams approached the second half.

I could go on, but you obviously know more about these games than the people who actually witnessed them.

[GGASU]

None of that accounts for how easy NCSU apparently rushed the ball. You got to stop them too. It wasn't like NCSU was playing great early in the year looks like they lost to Akron at home the next week and got blew out by Southern Miss the week after. That's not Michigan.


The official stats for total offense were 133 yards for ASU to 242 yards for NCSU...if you are using Yahoo Sports they are wrong.

ASU had 9 punts NCSU had 8...It was a boring game with neither team able to move the ball.

[Ivytalk]

I'm looking forward to this game. Who knows? Michigan has a way of playing down to the level of its opposition.

[GoGuins]

I am beginning to believe that NoSpinZone is simply a guy who likes to argue for argument sake. You argue about games you have NEVER seen, either in person, or on tape. You simply have NO CLUE about what how are arguing about.

You mention the Marshall game being 37-17 after three quarters and that not being competitive. I explained that a bad bounce had caused a fumble recovery that would have gone for a TD by Josh Jeffries to go out of bounds and give the ball back to Marshall. Byron Leftwich threw a TD pass on the next play. So instead of being a 24-23 ASU lead in the third quarter, the game becomes 30-17 Marshall.

Against Kansas, the first half was played virtually even on the field. In the first quarter, Kevin Richardson fumbled a ball non-forced as he was about to score the game's first TD. Julian Rauch also missed a point-blank field goal. One of Kansas' first-half TDs was set up by a questionable unsportsmanlike conduct penalty (we all know how FCS teams get continually hosed in these games, if you have even been to any of them — remember what happened to Furman at North Carolina in 2006?). The game should have been 14-10 at best for Kansas at halftime. That would have totally changed the way the two teams approached the second half.

I could go on, but you obviously know more about these games than the people who actually witnessed them.

I guess you can say the same for the '06 Ball State-Michgan game. A game that was not as close as it seemed if you were there. Yes the final was 34-26 but as I stated before, the game was basically over in the first half and most of the Michigan starters were yanked in the second half. Ball made a couple nice plays (one on broken coverage) & Michigan threw an INT deep in their own territory and let BSU get back into the game.
Yes, Michigan as a whole did play poorly and Ball State probably played probably their best games of the year. It's all part of the game.

[youwouldno]

You mention the Marshall game being 37-17 after three quarters and that not being competitive. I explained that a bad bounce had caused a fumble recovery that would have gone for a TD by Josh Jeffries to go out of bounds and give the ball back to Marshall. Byron Leftwich threw a TD pass on the next play. So instead of being a 24-23 ASU lead in the third quarter, the game becomes 30-17 Marshall.



Here's your problem Coulson... that's football. The ball doesn't always bounce your team's way. 37-17 is 37-17. And if App had the 37, you'd be saying it was an even worse blowout than it actually was.

You are right about FCS teams getting hosed by refs in FBS games.

[Mr. C]

Here's your problem Coulson... that's football. The ball doesn't always bounce your team's way. 37-17 is 37-17. And if App had the 37, you'd be saying it was an even worse blowout than it actually was.

You are right about FCS teams getting hosed by refs in FBS games.

And your problem is you judge everything on what you don't see.

[NoSpinZone]

I explained that a bad bounce had caused a fumble recovery that would have gone for a TD by Josh Jeffries to go out of bounds and give the ball back to Marshall. Byron Leftwich threw a TD pass on the next play. So instead of being a 24-23 ASU lead in the third quarter, the game becomes 30-17 Marshall.

Against Kansas, the first half was played virtually even on the field. In the first quarter, Kevin Richardson fumbled a ball non-forced as he was about to score the game's first TD. Julian Rauch also missed a point-blank field goal. One of Kansas' first-half TDs was set up by a questionable unsportsmanlike conduct penalty (we all know how FCS teams get continually hosed in these games, if you have even been to any of them —.

I wonder if their fans could point to a "bad" call, dropped pass, a fumble, a busted play, or where their QB was so injured the coach made him starter. I'm sure they point to those and say man we could have blown this team out by more than the 3 TD's we did. Just look at Pruett he seemed awful aggravated at how sloppy Marshall played. I guess it only happens to Appalachian State though. Yes I know you explained the excuses to me. No Spin Zone.

[youwouldno]

And your problem is you judge everything on what you don't see.

Whether or not I judge in one way or another is not the issue, though your characterization is erroneous and overly broad in any case. I do not present my opinion as fact, whereas you do. That is problematic because, when someone disagrees with you, they are disputing what you see as facts-- even though, in reality, they are only offering a contrary opinion.

A separate but related issue is that, due to your bias, you pick out particular events in a game at the expense of others. You always note unlikely or decisive plays that went against your team, but ignore the other perspective. Perhaps Marshall was unlucky that they fumbled at all. Indeed, you note Richardson's unforced fumble... but how is an unforced fumble different from any other play?

Things can go wrong, players sometimes don't execute... they're human. That's football. But when it happens to App, it means the other team wasn't as deserving or was lucky. The constant litany of excuses for every App imperfection is just ridiculous and exposes your bias. That you can't differentiate between opinion and fact makes it worse. An ethical journalist in your situation-- living in a program's backyard-- would take more care to be objective.

[PantherRob82]

What about YSU vs. OSU? Which game do you think will be more intertaining?

Michigan-App

[PantherRob82]

Looks like we have a few canidates to take MplsBison's title of most annoying poster. xrolleyesx

[FlyYtown]

I would agree, NoSpinZone loves to argue with people on here. He loves to argue with me about YSU-KENT-AKRON.... He just doesn't understand how bad Kent/Akron's facilities really are and how poor their attendance REALLY is.

Go ahead and say paid attendance, there is NEVER EVER more than 10000 at a game, unless it is Kent vs. Akron. Come to Northeast Ohio one weekend and I will show you what I mean!


What about YSU vs. OSU? Which game do you think will be more intertaining?
I think YSU-OSU will be a lot more entertaining.
Why?

1. You will see 6-8,000 Penguin Fans in Attendance
2. We are facing the man that brought us to greatness in Tressel!
3. We actually have a QB who is far more experienced vs. the big guys. YES Zetts has more experience than Boeckman.
4. OSU is down very badly on offense. They will be rusty in their first performance with a new style of offense; UM is not. Michigan is going to pound Appalachian State I am sad to say. Henne and Co. are going to win it all this year I am afraid to say..... GoGuins-->WE AGREE AGAIN!

In the end I see this:
UM-49
Appy-13
[[offense is wayyyyy too much for the Appy D]]

OSU-34
YSU-14

[BeauFoster]

Looks like we have a few canidates to take MplsBison's title of most annoying poster. xrolleyesx



No kidding...xmadx

[AppState]

What did Kansas fans say after they beat you guys by 30 that same championship year?

They said "Nospinzone cannot do basic math."

It was 28.

Edit: And yes. Marshall beat us with a future NFL starting QB against a freshman replacing a senior out from back surgery. Soundly after mid 3rd quarter.

What team do you support?

[SoCon48]

The official stats for total offense were 133 yards for ASU to 242 yards for NCSU...if you are using Yahoo Sports they are wrong.

ASU had 9 punts NCSU had 8...It was a boring game with neither team able to move the ball.


Don't confuse the guy with facts!xrulesx

[SoCon48]

You have a wrong impression about what LSU people were saying about the ASU game. The LSU fans and the LSU media were very positive about how well the Mountaineers played. I guarantee you that the Tigers were not trying to take it easy on ASU. They only scored 14 points for the better part of three quarters because that was all they could score. ASU's defense did a great job before getting worn down in the fourth period. I wish that the skeptics (talking about other people here, not you) could see the actual game broadcast of this contest. I saw the game live and have watched it several times on DVD. It was a super performance by ASU and was the one that opened a lot of ours eyes to the fact that the Mountaineers could contend and win the national championship. Again, the television people were strong in their praise for ASU. The columnists and beat writers said and also wrote very positive things about the Mountaineers, too. I was there and that's what the true picture was.

I was speaking of the fans on this board..those App haters who had predicted 60-70 pt margins.
I am very well aware of the media and coaches' comments and opinions.

[PantherRob82]

.
Why?

1. You will see 6-8,000 Penguin Fans in Attendance


Wearing Buckeye gear. xrolleyesx

[T-Dog]

I will be baffled if there will be any TRUE App fans in UofM gear at the Big House on Labor Day. It would be a violation of App Law #1 and we'd probably leave them in Ann Arbor. It's just part of our deal.

[BigApp]

1. You will see 6-8,000 Penguin Fans in Attendance


you should. Ytown is what 2 hours from Columbus?

[NDSUFREAK]

I would agree, NoSpinZone loves to argue with people on here. He loves to argue with me about YSU-KENT-AKRON.... He just doesn't understand how bad Kent/Akron's facilities really are and how poor their attendance REALLY is.

Go ahead and say paid attendance, there is NEVER EVER more than 10000 at a game, unless it is Kent vs. Akron. Come to Northeast Ohio one weekend and I will show you what I mean!


I think YSU-OSU will be a lot more entertaining.
Why?

1. You will see 6-8,000 Penguin Fans in Attendance
2. We are facing the man that brought us to greatness in Tressel!
3. We actually have a QB who is far more experienced vs. the big guys. YES Zetts has more experience than Boeckman.
4. OSU is down very badly on offense. They will be rusty in their first performance with a new style of offense; UM is not. Michigan is going to pound Appalachian State I am sad to say. Henne and Co. are going to win it all this year I am afraid to say..... GoGuins-->WE AGREE AGAIN!

In the end I see this:
UM-49
Appy-13
[[offense is wayyyyy too much for the Appy D]]

OSU-34
YSU-14

we won't be able to tell if there is that many there because you 2 teams have the same colors! :p

[SoCon48]

Wearing Buckeye gear. xrolleyesx


xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[FlyYtown]

you should. Ytown is what 2 hours from Columbus?

About 2 hours 45 minutes on a Saturday morning down to Columbus. The funny thing is there is around 2-3,000 Valley natives with Buckeye Season tickets....

So all and all; you may see over 10,000 diehard/casual Penguin fans at the game! The bad thing is we the 'shoe will still be red!

[Mountain Panther]

I would agree, NoSpinZone loves to argue with people on here. He loves to argue with me about YSU-KENT-AKRON.... He just doesn't understand how bad Kent/Akron's facilities really are and how poor their attendance REALLY is.

Go ahead and say paid attendance, there is NEVER EVER more than 10000 at a game, unless it is Kent vs. Akron. Come to Northeast Ohio one weekend and I will show you what I mean!


I think YSU-OSU will be a lot more entertaining.
Why?

1. You will see 6-8,000 Penguin Fans in Attendance
2. We are facing the man that brought us to greatness in Tressel!
3. We actually have a QB who is far more experienced vs. the big guys. YES Zetts has more experience than Boeckman.
4. OSU is down very badly on offense. They will be rusty in their first performance with a new style of offense; UM is not. Michigan is going to pound Appalachian State I am sad to say. Henne and Co. are going to win it all this year I am afraid to say..... GoGuins-->WE AGREE AGAIN!

In the end I see this:
UM-49
Appy-13
[[offense is wayyyyy too much for the Appy D]]

OSU-34
YSU-14

UNI/Iowa State will be the most entertaining of all........

........just kidding, but I do think it will be the closest of YSU/OSU-ASU/UM-UNI/ISU

[Saint3333]

I would hope the UNI/ISU would be the closest...

Iowa St. is a borderline bowl bid team vs. Michigan and OSU who are typical BCS bowl teams.

[PSUVikings]

I'm looking forward to this game. Who knows? Michigan has a way of playing down to the level of its opposition.

Maybe, but not that far down.

[GGASU]

Maybe, but not that far down.


Ball State took Michigan to the wire last year.

ASU would beat Ball State 9 out of 10 xnodx

[MYTAPPY]

I think YSU-OSU will be a lot more entertaining.
Why?

1. You will see 6-8,000 Penguin Fans in Attendance
2. We are facing the man that brought us to greatness in Tressel

6-8,000 Penguin Fans will be cheering for OSU!! xlolx xlolx
Fact being, you can't let Tressel go.....

[tke504oa]

I think alot of people are not understanding what we are saying when it comes to these close games. App is continuously playing close with very good BCS teams. If this continues eventually the Ball is gong to bounce Apps way. Michigan is not as big a powerhouse as people are saying. They do have better depth and they should be able to run away with the game late. The problem is that App has hung in till late. If Michigan is not ready for a dog fight they WILL LOSE THIS GAME. Not one person is saying App is a better team but people are saying that APP plays up to its competition. Put Edwards in against NC State last year and we are talking a different ballgame. CLose games with LSU and Auburn show App has the guts to hang in. These players are not going to go into the Michigan game happy to be there they are going there to win.

[thirdgendin]

I think alot of people are not understanding what we are saying when it comes to these close games. App is continuously playing close with very good BCS teams. If this continues eventually the Ball is gong to bounce Apps way. Michigan is not as big a powerhouse as people are saying. They do have better depth and they should be able to run away with the game late. The problem is that App has hung in till late. If Michigan is not ready for a dog fight they WILL LOSE THIS GAME. Not one person is saying App is a better team but people are saying that APP plays up to its competition. Put Edwards in against NC State last year and we are talking a different ballgame. CLose games with LSU and Auburn show App has the guts to hang in. These players are not going to go into the Michigan game happy to be there they are going there to win.

The problem is that App isn't playing BCS teams closely, aside from a 13-point loss to a bad NC State team last year and an Auburn game from 8 or 9 years ago. Since the Wake Forest series ended, App has been beaten soundly by Marshall, Hawaii, Wyoming, Kansas, and LSU without ever really threatening in any of those games.

Please don't take this as a slight against ASU, as you guys have a great football team and have dominated FCS since your last trip to Greenville. Good luck against Michigan.

[APP91]

The problem is that App isn't playing BCS teams closely, aside from a 13-point loss to a bad NC State team last year and an Auburn game from 8 or 9 years ago. Since the Wake Forest series ended, App has been beaten soundly by Marshall, Hawaii, Wyoming, Kansas, and LSU without ever really threatening in any of those games.

Please don't take this as a slight against ASU, as you guys have a great football team and have dominated FCS since your last trip to Greenville. Good luck against Michigan.

He's right. My App brethren seem to not be looking past NC State and LSU, Hell, KS beat us that year, 36-8 and they were not great. In '04 Wyoming clipped us 53-7, in '03 Hawaii 40-17.

We are trending in the right direction, but I am not yet ready to say that we are playing these teams close.
I am going to the big house and will be cheering like &@%$ for the black and gold. I also believe that our players think and they can and will win. It's what competitors do. But at the end of the day this game is what it is. A check with a great opportunity to be on the stage!

[Longrifle]

He's right. My App brethren seem to not be looking past NC State and LSU, Hell, KS beat us that year, 36-8 and they were not great. In '04 Wyoming clipped us 53-7, in '03 Hawaii 40-17.

We are trending in the right direction, but I am not yet ready to say that we are playing these teams close.
I am going to the big house and will be cheering like &@%$ for the black and gold. I also believe that our players think and they can and will win. It's what competitors do. But at the end of the day this game is what it is. A check with a great opportunity to be on the stage!

Well said.

[GreatAppSt]

APP will not win at Michigan period. xmadx We still have Jerry Moore as coach and he will play a very conservative gamexnonono2x xmadx (see last years total of 6 different plays run on offense at NCSU. He will show up for the pay check. And hope not to suffer injuries just like UH, WYO etc etc. He will not show up and pull out all the stops to try to win this game!For Jerry, UM does not matter in the Division ASU plays .The only FBS games he has ever gone in trying to win was against neighboring WFU.xthumbsupx

[NoSpinZone]

Ball State took Michigan to the wire last year.

ASU would beat Ball State 9 out of 10 xnodx

Not sure how you derive that, but of the games that were actually played with common opponents. NC State was 3-9 and were defeated by Akron at home the week after you lost to them by 13 and Ball State finished higher than Akron last year in conference.

[james_lawfirm]

APP will not win at Michigan period. xmadx We still have Jerry Moore as coach and he will play a very conservative gamexnonono2x xmadx (see last years total of 6 different plays run on offense at NCSU. He will show up for the pay check. And hope not to suffer injuries just like UH, WYO etc etc. He will not show up and pull out all the stops to try to win this game!For Jerry, UM does not matter in the Division ASU plays .The only FBS games he has ever gone in trying to win was against neighboring WFU.xthumbsupx


OK, GAS, you have an interesting take on things here. Not sure I agree. But, I do understand your points.

Assuming for a moment that Coach Moore "does not try to win" FBS games (except WFU), I can think of some reasons why this makes sense.

1) On the important-games-scale, FBS are NOT important; Yeah, I guess they do count as a win for playoff purposes - but, an FCS coach's focus should be on conference foes.
2) Win the conference & you get an auto-bid - thus FBS foes don't matter.
3) Would not want to take too many injuries in games that are "stacked" w/ more scholarship players than your team could put on the field.
4) If the game is at the beginning of the season (no matter the opponent), the coaching staff is still trying to figure out the basics (like who should start & what offense are we running this year.) At LSU (mid-season), it did not look to me like we were playing "conservatively".
5) Not to mention the fact that new players might not yet remember all of the plays. Oops, don't hike that ball over my head again. *&^%$#
6) All ASU's games against FBS opponents have been at their house (wouldn't it be nice to host one for a change?) - I reckon this alone makes it even more difficult to come away with a win.

But, in reality it seems to me that what you have actually seen is not a conscious effort on Coach Moore's part to play it "conservative", e.g., & not playing to win, rather, a combination of all of the above factors. The main one being #1 - they just flat don't count to winning the SoCon.

Having said all that, I personally would be in hog heaven for the next two years if we go up to Mich. & give them all the FCS football they care to play. Not to mention if we come away with a win! xthumbsupx

[GreatAppSt]

OK, GAS, you have an interesting take on things here. Not sure I agree. But, I do understand your points.

Assuming for a moment that Coach Moore "does not try to win" FBS games (except WFU), I can think of some reasons why this makes sense.

1) On the important-games-scale, FBS are NOT important; Yeah, I guess they do count as a win for playoff purposes - but, an FCS coach's focus should be on conference foes.
2) Win the conference & you get an auto-bid - thus FBS foes don't matter.
3) Would not want to take too many injuries in games that are "stacked" w/ more scholarship players than your team could put on the field.
4) If the game is at the beginning of the season (no matter the opponent), the coaching staff is still trying to figure out the basics (like who should start & what offense are we running this year.) At LSU (mid-season), it did not look to me like we were playing "conservatively".
5) Not to mention the fact that new players might not yet remember all of the plays. Oops, don't hike that ball over my head again. *&^%$#
6) All ASU's games against FBS opponents have been at their house (wouldn't it be nice to host one for a change?) - I reckon this alone makes it even more difficult to come away with a win.

But, in reality it seems to me that what you have actually seen is not a conscious effort on Coach Moore's part to play it "conservative", e.g., & not playing to win, rather, a combination of all of the above factors. The main one being #1 - they just flat don't count to winning the SoCon.

Having said all that, I personally would be in hog heaven for the next two years if we go up to Mich. & give them all the FCS football they care to play. Not to mention if we come away with a win! xthumbsupx

You spelled it out in depth but I agree 100% with your summary.xbowx xthumbsupx

[BigApp]

You spelled it out in depth but I agree 100% with your summary.xbowx xthumbsupx

GAS, I've agreed with you on this in the past, but here's what ol BA's hoping:

Jerry Moore realizes his stature is secure with 2 NC's. A win over a BCS team, particularly against a team like Michigan, would CEMENT his stature not only with Appfans, but nationwide.

Like Auburn or any other I-A/FBS team we've played, I expect we'll play the feeling out game early, and if there's a possibility of a chance, I'm hoping he'll go for it.

As with every game, I expect us to go up there to win.

[SoCon48]

APP will not win at Michigan period. xmadx We still have Jerry Moore as coach and he will play a very conservative gamexnonono2x xmadx (see last years total of 6 different plays run on offense at NCSU. He will show up for the pay check. And hope not to suffer injuries just like UH, WYO etc etc. He will not show up and pull out all the stops to try to win this game!For Jerry, UM does not matter in the Division ASU plays .The only FBS games he has ever gone in trying to win was against neighboring WFU.xthumbsupx

TREY ELDER WAS JUST DAYS FROM SURGERY PLUS THE STATE HOGS WERE EATING HIM ALIVE!!