I hate that Montana and Montana State are on opposite sides of the bracket

[ASU33]

I'd love to see the Playoff Edition of The Brawl of The Wild.

[wapiti]

It could happen.

[Preferred Walk-On]

I'd love to see the Playoff Edition of The Brawl of The Wild.

I actually really like it that NDSU and SDSU, Montana St and Montana, UCA and SELA, and even Furman and Wofford (oops!) are/were on opposite sides of the bracket. While it becomes a longer shot for a rematch, just think how cool it would be to have any of those rematches in Frisco.

[Grizalltheway]

In 2011 we were one game away from a semifinal in Missoula. One of these days.

[dewey]

Beating down the rival in the playoffs gets old after a while:D

Dewey

[ASU33]

I actually really like it that NDSU and SDSU, Montana St and Montana, UCA and SELA, and even Furman and Wofford (oops!) are/were on opposite sides of the bracket. While it becomes a longer shot for a rematch, just think how cool it would be to have any of those rematches in Frisco.

That would be insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MSUBobcat]

That would be insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not familiar with how intense a UCA-SLU or Furman-Wofford rivalry is (although for the 130th anniversary of the first time Furman and Wofford played only had 50% of Gibbs Stadium's capacity). NDSU-SDSU is ramping up but has really only taken off since the traditional in-state rivalry was interrupted by the UxD's not moving up at the same time. A 2nd Brawl of the Wild for a national championship would likely cement the bragging rights for the winner for eternity. Even if we never beat the Grizzlies again, I'd still say, "yeah, but you remember 2019 when we smoked your ass for that national championship? That's the biggest victory in the entire history of the Brawl, bitch!" It would be EPIC. Obviously the obstacles for the opportunity are immense, with NDSU and JMU standing in the way.

[Grizalltheway]

I'm not familiar with how intense a UCA-SLU or Furman-Wofford rivalry is (although for the 130th anniversary of the first time Furman and Wofford played only had 50% of Gibbs Stadium's capacity). NDSU-SDSU is ramping up but has really only taken off since the traditional in-state rivalry was interrupted by the UxD's not moving up at the same time. A 2nd Brawl of the Wild for a national championship would likely cement the bragging rights for the winner for eternity. Even if we never beat the Grizzlies again, I'd still say, "yeah, but you remember 2019 when we smoked your ass for that national championship? That's the biggest victory in the entire history of the Brawl, bitch!" It would be EPIC. Obviously the obstacles for the opportunity are immense, with NDSU and JMU standing in the way.
Not to mention Weber and Sac. That potential rematch in Odgen scares the hell out of me.

[Chalupa Batman]

Semifinal matchups of NDSU vs. Montana and Montana vs. JMU (or even SDSU) would make for a very fun week on AGS

[MSUBobcat]

Not to mention Weber and Sac. That potential rematch in Odgen scares the hell out of me.

No doubt. I didn't mean to diminish any of the remaining teams, including Albany and SLU. All have potential to bringing Cat-Griz 2.0 to a grinding halt.

[MSUBobcat]

Semifinal matchups of NDSU vs. Montana and Montana vs. JMU (or even SDSU) would make for a very fun week on AGS

If it ended up NDSU vs MSU and UM vs SDSU in the semis, these 3 states would be ****ing insane. xprayx

[Chalupa Batman]

If it ended up NDSU vs MSU and UM vs SDSU in the semis, these 3 states would be ****ing insane. xprayx

Hells yeah! xslapfightx

[Preferred Walk-On]

I'm not familiar with how intense a UCA-SLU or Furman-Wofford rivalry is (although for the 130th anniversary of the first time Furman and Wofford played only had 50% of Gibbs Stadium's capacity). NDSU-SDSU is ramping up but has really only taken off since the traditional in-state rivalry was interrupted by the UxD's not moving up at the same time. A 2nd Brawl of the Wild for a national championship would likely cement the bragging rights for the winner for eternity. Even if we never beat the Grizzlies again, I'd still say, "yeah, but you remember 2019 when we smoked your ass for that national championship? That's the biggest victory in the entire history of the Brawl, bitch!" It would be EPIC. Obviously the obstacles for the opportunity are immense, with NDSU and JMU standing in the way.

Respectfully, I know the rivalry has not been for the length of Cat-Griz, but it has been 17 yr, and one of the things that has made it good is the fact that both teams have been very good for over a decade and even a few years before that. I don't think it is really ramping up anymore...it is there.

Also, did not mean to exclude other rivalries (mentioned in another post), and while the other mentions may not be full-fledged rivalries, they are conference rematches between top teams in the conference. I am thrilled that the committee split up the conferences like they did for these playoffs.

[JSUSoutherner]

I actually really like it that NDSU and SDSU, Montana St and Montana, UCA and SELA, and even Furman and Wofford (oops!) are/were on opposite sides of the bracket. While it becomes a longer shot for a rematch, just think how cool it would be to have any of those rematches in Frisco.

A SoCon teams in Frisco?

Lul.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Playing SDSU in Frisco would be cool but no one is beating JMU in the other bracket. And no one is beating NDSU on its side at home.

[Derby City Duke]

In 2008 we were on the opposite side of the bracket from Richmond -- they are probably our most bitter rival. We ended up being one twisted ankle from meeting in the final. IIRC, our QB went down late in the 2nd quarter of the semi-final vs. Montana and we ended up losing by 8 as the back-up QB was not up to the task.

Unfortunately, Montana went on to lose to Richmond in the title game.

[SactoHornetFan]

Not to mention Weber and Sac. That potential rematch in Odgen scares the hell out of me.

The only way we would meet Weber is in Frisco. We are on opposite sides of the bracket.

[MSUBobcat]

The only way we would meet Weber is in Frisco. We are on opposite sides of the bracket.

I believe Grizalltheway was responding to my statement of, "Obviously the obstacles for the opportunity are immense, with NDSU and JMU standing in the way." He was pointing out that Weber and Sac State also stand in both our paths, as do Albany and SLU. Can't look past anyone at this point.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I'm not familiar with how intense a UCA-SLU or Furman-Wofford rivalry is (although for the 130th anniversary of the first time Furman and Wofford played only had 50% of Gibbs Stadium's capacity). NDSU-SDSU is ramping up but has really only taken off since the traditional in-state rivalry was interrupted by the UxD's not moving up at the same time. A 2nd Brawl of the Wild for a national championship would likely cement the bragging rights for the winner for eternity. Even if we never beat the Grizzlies again, I'd still say, "yeah, but you remember 2019 when we smoked your ass for that national championship? That's the biggest victory in the entire history of the Brawl, bitch!" It would be EPIC. Obviously the obstacles for the opportunity are immense, with NDSU and JMU standing in the way.

This honestly would maybe not be so great for the rivalry.

We all know what "The Streak" did to the rivalry, it made it absolutely bitter.....especially from Cat fans side. Griz have lost 4 straight to the Cats and it is honestly brutal to deal with. I cant imagine multiplying that by 4.....I honestly dont know if I'd keep watching it at that point lol. Now add that type of attitude to a national championship defeat by one of these programs??? It would make the rivalry unbearable.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Careful what you wish for ... MVFC was punished in 2015 for getting two team to Natty in 2014 !!!

xnodx

[Catbooster]

Careful what you wish for ... MVFC was punished in 2015 for getting two team to Natty in 2014 !!!

xnodx
What was their punishment?

[MSUBobcat]

This honestly would maybe not be so great for the rivalry.

We all know what "The Streak" did to the rivalry, it made it absolutely bitter.....especially from Cat fans side. Griz have lost 4 straight to the Cats and it is honestly brutal to deal with. I cant imagine multiplying that by 4.....I honestly dont know if I'd keep watching it at that point lol. Now add that type of attitude to a national championship defeat by one of these programs??? It would make the rivalry unbearable.

"Win or lose, we booze." xlolx But your point about throwing gasoline on the fire is well taken. The fans of the losing team would never hear the end of it and the animosity among some of the fans would rise to incredible levels.

[Silenoz]

No one needs to see that this year

[JayJ79]

I like seeing different opponents in the playoffs instead of just rematches of games that were already played this season.
Doesn't always happen, given the bus trip directive and the fact that teams tend to get paired up with the same regional opponents year in and year out.
But when the new opponent matchup happens, I like it.

[Grizalltheway]

I like seeing different opponents in the playoffs instead of just rematches of games that were already played this season.
Doesn't always happen, given the bus trip directive and the fact that teams tend to get paired up with the same regional opponents year in and year out.
But when the new opponent matchup happens, I like it.
I think most would agree with that, but in this case, it's more the fact that as long as the two teams have been playing, it's never happened in any sort of playoff situation.

[PaladinFan]

Besides Furman and Georgia Southern (who met twice), are there other rivalry rematches in the national title games?

Furman played both App State and Georgia Southern in the semifinals as well.

[bobcathpdevil56]

I think most would agree with that, but in this case, it's more the fact that as long as the two teams have been playing, it's never happened in any sort of playoff situation.

Well, not to be self-deprecating, but that would require consistently making the playoffs and one of these two teams have not held up their end of the bargain on that.

[Professor Chaos]

Believe it or not only 5 times in the 41 year history of the subdivision have both Montana teams made the playoff field in the same year before this year: 2002, 2003, 2006, 2011, and 2014. In 2014 they were both unseeded so they couldn't be bracketed together. In 2011 they both had byes in a 20 team field (Montana seeded and Montana St unseeded) so they couldn't be bracketed too close together although they were on the same side of the bracket. In the other years it was a 16 team field so they couldn't meet before the quarters. They would've met in the quarters in 2002 had Montana St beat top seeded McNeese in the first round but McNeese swept the Montana teams en route to the title game that year.

[JayJ79]

In 2014 they were both unseeded so they couldn't be bracketed together.
what do you mean by "bracketed together"?
They'll never be set up as a first-round matchup, since they are conference-mates (who I believe have a "protected rivalry" so that they're guaranteed to play each other in the regular season each year, but I don't follow the Big Sky that closely, so maybe that isn't the case).
If one was seeded and the other not, they could easily set it up so that they'd face each other in the second round. They do that to MVFC teams all the time.

[MSUBobcat]

what do you mean by "bracketed together"?
They'll never be set up as a first-round matchup, since they are conference-mates (who I believe have a "protected rivalry" so that they're guaranteed to play each other in the regular season each year, but I don't follow the Big Sky that closely, so maybe that isn't the case).
If one was seeded and the other not, they could easily set it up so that they'd face each other in the second round. They do that to MVFC teams all the time.

Chaos meant if both teams are unseeded, they will NEVER play each other in the first round, as you stated. Not only would we already have played an in-conference game during the regular season, but it would literally be the week prior. Even without the rule against a rematch against a conference foe, I think the committee would still do whatever it took to not have a playoff game be a rematch of a game played only 1 week before.

He didn't say that it couldn't be set up for a rematch in Round 2 (or QF or semis), just that it hasn't because, as bobcathpdevil alluded, MSU hasn't been holding up its end of the bargain when it comes to making the playoffs and making it a possibility. :(

[Professor Chaos]

what do you mean by "bracketed together"?
They'll never be set up as a first-round matchup, since they are conference-mates (who I believe have a "protected rivalry" so that they're guaranteed to play each other in the regular season each year, but I don't follow the Big Sky that closely, so maybe that isn't the case).
If one was seeded and the other not, they could easily set it up so that they'd face each other in the second round. They do that to MVFC teams all the time.
Since they're both unseeded they both had to play in the first round and couldn't play each other since it would be a regular season conference rematch which means the earliest they could've been matched up was the quarters.

If one was seeded and the other was not with this 24 team field I'd say there's a strong possibility they'd be matched up in the 2nd round. In fact I saw plenty of bracket projections in the latter part of this year that had that happening before Montana St won the Brawl and pulled themselves up into the seeds as well. Had that not happened I think/hope the committee would've put Montana St in Weber St's pod instead of Montana's since Weber St and Montana St didn't play in this past regular season and Ogden is bus distance from Bozeman.

I was more calling it out as a surprising thing that they've never been bracketed all that close together and why that was. SDSU and NDSU were set up for 4 straight years from 2012-2015 where SDSU was unseeded and NDSU was seeded and 3 out of those 4 years SDSU was bracketed to go to NDSU in the 2nd round if they won.

[MSUBobcat]

Since they're both unseeded they both had to play in the first round and couldn't play each other since it would be a regular season conference rematch which means the earliest they could've been matched up was the quarters.

If one was seeded and the other was not with this 24 team field I'd say there's a strong possibility they'd be matched up in the 2nd round. In fact I saw plenty of bracket projections in the latter part of this year that had that happening before Montana St won the Brawl and pulled themselves up into the seeds as well. Had that not happened I think/hope the committee would've put Montana St in Weber St's pod instead of Montana's since Weber St and Montana St didn't play in this past regular season and Ogden is bus distance from Bozeman.

I was more calling it out as a surprising thing that they've never been bracketed all that close together and why that was. SDSU and NDSU were set up for 4 straight years from 2012-2015 where SDSU was unseeded and NDSU was seeded and 3 out of those 4 years SDSU was bracketed to go to NDSU in the 2nd round if they won.

Yeah, it is a bit surprising. In 2002, they set it up that we would meet as soon as possible with the no-first-round-rematch rule, but MSU lost as you mentioned. Confusingly, we couldn't have met in 2003 or 2006 until the championship, being on different sides of the bracket. In 2011, with UM being the 4 seed, MSU getting the first round bye and the weird 5-seed playoff setup, the only way we could have met in the QF would be if they had paired MSU against the #5 UNI. They didn't so we were set to match up in the semis. In 2014, we were again set up on opposite sides of the bracket. It's almost like they don't want us to have a 2nd Brawl....

[Redbird 4th & short]

What was their punishment?

Put all 5 MVFC teams on same half bracket in 2015 .... in all the years Colonial got 4 to 6 teams, they were always spread across 3 or 4 regions. MVFC complained about this in 2015 and NCAA publicly acknowledged it should not have happened.

[Professor Chaos]

Put all 5 MVFC teams on same half bracket in 2015 .... in all the years Colonial got 4 to 6 teams, they were always spread across 3 or 4 regions. MVFC complained about this in 2015 and NCAA publicly acknowledged it should not have happened.
I don't think they said it shouldn't have happened... they acknowledged that it was unfortunate that a conference with 5 teams had all of them on one side of the bracket. The excuse they used was that once Illinois St was set as the #2 seed and NDSU was set as the #3 seed on the same side of the bracket that forced their hands to put two unseeded MVFC teams (SDSU and WIU) into those pods since they were the only teams playing in the first round within 400 miles of those schools. The main complaint would come from why they put UNI in the pod with #6 seed Portland St when that's a 2nd round flight. However, if you look at the bracket that year the only other guaranteed 2nd round flight in the bracket was UNH/Colgate to JMU and they were both a lot closer to JMU than they were to Portland St so it makes sense why they did it the way they did.

In the end though the NCAA owned up to the fact that regionalization really ends up overloading the brackets in some scenarios and now they have a rule in place to prevent that at the expense of having less regionalization.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I don't think they said it shouldn't have happened... they acknowledged that it was unfortunate that a conference with 5 teams had all of them on one side of the bracket. The excuse they used was that once Illinois St was set as the #2 seed and NDSU was set as the #3 seed on the same side of the bracket that forced their hands to put two unseeded MVFC teams (SDSU and WIU) into those pods since they were the only teams playing in the first round within 400 miles of those schools. The main complaint would come from why they put UNI in the pod with #6 seed Portland St when that's a 2nd round flight. However, if you look at the bracket that year the only other guaranteed 2nd round flight in the bracket was UNH/Colgate to JMU and they were both a lot closer to JMU than they were to Portland St so it makes sense why they did it the way they did.

In the end though the NCAA owned up to the fact that regionalization really ends up overloading the brackets in some scenarios and now they have a rule in place to prevent that at the expense of having less regionalization.
appreciate the furthe clarification ...... what are the odds (in all those years they got 4,5, 6 teams going back to early 2000's), it would never have happened to Colonial ??

I think they did got that many teams 8 or 9 times in last 2 decades. It happened to MVFC the 2nd time we got that many teams .. a year after we put 2 in the Natty.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

In 2008 we were on the opposite side of the bracket from Richmond -- they are probably our most bitter rival. We ended up being one twisted ankle from meeting in the final. IIRC, our QB went down late in the 2nd quarter of the semi-final vs. Montana and we ended up losing by 8 as the back-up QB was not up to the task.

Unfortunately, Montana went on to lose to Richmond in the title game.

Landers was worth 10 points, Dudzik was worth 17 if we are looking at it as the QB going down having an effect on what was happening in that game. Dudzik was better from what I saw but Landers was not going to bring you back for that one.

[Professor Chaos]

appreciate the furthe clarification ...... what are the odds (in all those years they got 4,5, 6 teams going back to early 2000's), it would never have happened to Colonial ??

I think they did got that many teams 8 or 9 times in last 2 decades. It happened to MVFC the 2nd time we got that many teams .. a year after we put 2 in the Natty.
I think regionalization was less prevalent with the 16 team bracket. I also think it's easier for the committee to avoid overloading CAA teams since there's usually a few other eastern teams they can put in there that are bus rides away from the CAA schools so they can move a CAA team out somewhere else to break them up (like sending Villanova to SLU even though there were 4 other first round teams within a bus ride of Nova).

The MVFC is by far the most likely league to run into this problem. The Big Sky can to a lesser degree but even amongst conference schools not a lot of them are within 400 miles of each other. If the Southland ever got to a point where they had 4 or more teams in the playoffs with 2 seeds I bet they'd present similar issues.

EDIT: Here's a map of all current FCS teams to show what I mean in terms of geographic isolation. 400 miles is about the length of the southern border of Kansas for reference. The Big Sky has nobody (other than San Diego). The MVFC has a few Pioneer teams (not likely to make the playoffs) and a couple OVC to the south and east of our footprint. The Southland has the SWAC (not likely to be any playoff teams).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49174290068_6076552949_o.jpg

[NY Crusader 2010]

I don't think they said it shouldn't have happened... they acknowledged that it was unfortunate that a conference with 5 teams had all of them on one side of the bracket. The excuse they used was that once Illinois St was set as the #2 seed and NDSU was set as the #3 seed on the same side of the bracket that forced their hands to put two unseeded MVFC teams (SDSU and WIU) into those pods since they were the only teams playing in the first round within 400 miles of those schools. The main complaint would come from why they put UNI in the pod with #6 seed Portland St when that's a 2nd round flight. However, if you look at the bracket that year the only other guaranteed 2nd round flight in the bracket was UNH/Colgate to JMU and they were both a lot closer to JMU than they were to Portland St so it makes sense why they did it the way they did.

In the end though the NCAA owned up to the fact that regionalization really ends up overloading the brackets in some scenarios and now they have a rule in place to prevent that at the expense of having less regionalization.

Is Colgate to JMU (or JMU to Colgate) even a flight? 429 miles but basically a straight shot on I-81 and given that each school is a pretty decent drive from the airports in either Charlottesville/Dulles or Syracuse, I imagine the playoff match-ups between these two schools were bus trips.

[Derby City Duke]

Earlier that year Landers had rallied the team from a 21-0 halftime deficit to App St. I don't know that Landers wouldn't have done it, but I know that Dudzik couldn't have done it. He was mediocre at best as a QB at JMU. In his 1 year where he was the full-time starter (2010) JMU was 6-5 (3-5 in CAA play). In one game that year, JMU attempted 1 pass -- doesn't appear to be the weather as the W&M QB threw the ball 40 times. He split time with Justin Thorpe in 2009.

Dudzik was at JMU mostly because his father was a QB there in the 80s.

That game was decided by 3 JMU turnovers inside the Montana 10-yard line (INT, fumble, downs) and a fumbled KO return. The 2 fumbles and the INT occurred on consecutive series spanning halftime.

[Professor Chaos]

Is Colgate to JMU (or JMU to Colgate) even a flight? 429 miles but basically a straight shot on I-81 and given that each school is a pretty decent drive from the airports in either Charlottesville/Dulles or Syracuse, I imagine the playoff match-ups between these two schools were bus trips.
According to the championship handbook 400 miles (and under) is the threshold for mandatory bus travel. I suppose it's possible that sometimes when schools are just outside of that they'll bus if they prefer but I'd think the NCAA has to give them the option to fly if they want to.

[catbob]

My heart couldn’t handle two Brawls in one year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Earlier that year Landers had rallied the team from a 21-0 halftime deficit to App St. I don't know that Landers wouldn't have done it, but I know that Dudzik couldn't have done it. He was mediocre at best as a QB at JMU. In his 1 year where he was the full-time starter (2010) JMU was 6-5 (3-5 in CAA play). In one game that year, JMU attempted 1 pass -- doesn't appear to be the weather as the W&M QB threw the ball 40 times. He split time with Justin Thorpe in 2009.

Dudzik was at JMU mostly because his father was a QB there in the 80s.

That game was decided by 3 JMU turnovers inside the Montana 10-yard line (INT, fumble, downs) and a fumbled KO return. The 2 fumbles and the INT occurred on consecutive series spanning halftime.

Yes, it was decided by the physical D in that one. Landers may have been better and I am damn sure he was but in that game Dudzik did more than Landers was doing when he went out. In that game Dudzey gave us more trouble probably because we had spent our time with how defending Landers would go.