Future of Big South football?

[Lion1983]

With Presbyterian moving to the Pioneer league in football next season, the Big South is down to 7 from 8.

Will the Big South stay at 7? Or will they actively try to get another.

The conference has 11 all sports members so I dont think 12 would be an issue.

I would leave KSU or UNA out of the conversation because it doesn't help with anything moving them from the ASun to the Big South.

So, are there any schools that should or could be on the list?

[Original_RMC]

Would the Big South consider someone from the NEC?

[Lion1983]

Would the Big South consider someone from the NEC?

I dont see why not... especially if it's an associate membership.

[Lion1983]

So if you are implying Robert Morris, I would love to see yall in the ASUN/Big South deal.

[Reign of Terrier]

The Big South is running out of southern teams to realistically include.

Having said that, the quality of the Big South is only going to improve with North Alabama going to full strength, Campbell on its upward tragectory, and Monmouth/Kennesaw being where they currently are.

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[Lion1983]

The Big South is running out of southern teams to realistically include.

Having said that, the quality of the Big South is only going to improve with North Alabama going to full strength, Campbell on its upward tragectory, and Monmouth/Kennesaw being where they currently are.

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I think CSU is on the right track with their new coach. Let him have a couple of recruiting cycles and they will be hard to handle.

As far as Southern schools, I would love to see Stetson or Jacksonville or both move to scholarship football. I would also like to see North Florida and FGCU start football.

[Reign of Terrier]

I have doubts with Jacksonville taking the step up. I heard from a guy who covers Furman that they couldn't schedule a game with them this year bc JU wanted Furman to pay travel expenses .

Doesn't strike me as a program willing to put forward marginal expenses to take the next step, let alone big expenses.

Chuck South (Ladsen North) wants to be successful, so you can put them there too, but it will be a while before the conference as a whole gets on the OVC or socon's level IMO

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[Lion1983]

I have doubts with Jacksonville taking the step up. I heard from a guy who covers Furman that they couldn't schedule a game with them this year bc JU wanted Furman to pay travel expenses .

Doesn't strike me as a program willing to put forward marginal expenses to take the next step, let alone big expenses.

Chuck South (Ladsen North) wants to be successful, so you can put them there too, but it will be a while before the conference as a whole gets on the OVC or socon's level IMO

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OVC level? 🤣😂🤣
One team dominates the conference for years...
This year is an anomaly, but I think realistically the OVC and Big South are closer than people may realize. But in the OVCs defense, as long as Hudspeth is at AP, they will be good.

[Reign of Terrier]

OVC level? [emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787]
One team dominates the conference for years...
This year is an anomaly, but I think realistically the OVC and Big South are closer than people may realize. But in the OVCs defense, as long as Hudspeth is at AP, they will be good.The same can be said for Kennesaw State, as current Big South members combine for one playoff victory.

The OVC has 4 teams with a playoff win in the last few years (JSU, EIU, Tennessee State, SEMO).

Last year, the Big South was by far the worst fully-scholarshipped conference in the FCS. Just terrible.

The Big South is historically one of the worst conference in FCS, especially given that Liberty, Stony Brook, and Coastal left. It will improve. Maybe Kennesaw beats Wofford Saturday. But right now, the Big South can't throw stones at anyone.


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[DFW HOYA]

The two smallest conferences are the Big South and the Patriot. Unlike the latter, this is a healthy conversation as far as the Big South goes.

The Big South shares a structural defect much like the PL--the conference is not all-in on football. If some combination of High Point, Longwood, Radford, UCA, Upstate, and Winthrop were playing, this isn't even a topic. The league stays afloat with a pair of outliers (a very big Kennesaw State program on the southern flank, a very un-southern Monmouth program on the north). It's am open question whether either team will be in the Big South by the turn of the next decade--Kennesaw seems to be trending the growth of the Atlanta metro area and a Georgia State-like jump is not out of the question at some point. Monmouth is marooned in a fading basketball conference (MAAC) pending any interest of the neighboring NEC or PL.

Aside from a new program within the conference, there are three options for growth:

1. MEAC Schools: For all its cultural ties, the MEAC has not been a windfall to these schools. Hampton left to join the Big South, Sacannah State dropped to the SIAC, and at least one other school (NC A&T) is floating a move to join I-A. Adding Howard would be a nice tie-in with Hampton, but Howard has its own problems and may not want to bury the MEAC with a move out of an HBCU conference. Two better choices are Delaware State and Norfolk State.

2. Aspiring Pioneer Schools. Much like Campbell moving up from the PFL, Jacksonville has always seemed a potential candidate, although they have been hesitant to do so. Add in fellow A-Sun member Stetson to the conversation and it's worth some study.

3. A Division II call-up. Maybe there's a UNC-Pembroke or Wingate with an interest in the jump.

These are three options the Patriot does not have. It won't look to other conferences because their self-identified model for smaller liberal arts schools is a dying model in the Northeast. It won't consider PFL schools and the D-III callups gravitate to the NEC. They depend on its two associate members having little or no long term vision for football in a league that continues to decline in the I-AA firmament, and this justifies the PL sticking to the status quo.

[taper]

Big South is too small, Southland is too big. Anyone who would consider a move?

[Daytripper]

Big South is too small, Southland is too big. Anyone who would consider a move?
Lamar and Nicholls

[Lion1983]

The same can be said for Kennesaw State, as current Big South members combine for one playoff victory.

The OVC has 4 teams with a playoff win in the last few years (JSU, EIU, Tennessee State, SEMO).

Last year, the Big South was by far the worst fully-scholarshipped conference in the FCS. Just terrible.

The Big South is historically one of the worst conference in FCS, especially given that Liberty, Stony Brook, and Coastal left. It will improve. Maybe Kennesaw beats Wofford Saturday. But right now, the Big South can't throw stones at anyone.


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I'm not throwing stones, just stating that they are more similar than different. And I'm not saying that the Big South isn't at the bottom end of the conference strength at the moment.

[Lion1983]

Lamar and Nicholls

Central Arkansas and any combination of the Louisiana schools would be ok. Put them in the ASUN with football in the Big South. UNA and Central Arkansas has a good history with each other.

[Reign of Terrier]

I imagine if things got bad in the MEAC, SC State could join. I hear their president didn't want to abandon the FCS playoffs (I could be mishearing/remembering that).

Also, Kennesaw State to the FBS is a pipe dream. They would really love that, but it's not happening for at least a decade. Their attendance is horrible. For perspective, Old Dominion, Liberty, App, and Georgia Southern each averaged well over 14-15k before they moved up. Heck, Coastal was at about 8k or so. I'm not sure about Georgia State.

But unlike those other programs, KSU plays in a stadium that is much smaller and the attendance is just awful. If you go on their message board, they have as much activity as Wofford does and they are a much bigger schools.

I hear KSU folks mention FBS more often than other FCS programs, and I'm telling ya, it's a pipe dream. Coastal moving up was a big question mark, but they have the location to bid for a bowl game, so it's understandable. Maybe they exaggerate their attendance like everyone does.

But it's a lot harder to exaggerate with how bad the crowd size is at KSU.

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[Lion1983]

Big South is too small, Southland is too big. Anyone who would consider a move?

That brings up something I have been thinking about for a while now.

I believe, at the FCS level, there should be no conferences that have football.

Instead, have football only conferences. Like the MVFC.

Football is just a different animal.

In our instance, a conference of

Example 1
UNA (ASUN)
Chattanooga (SoCon)
JSU (OVC)
KSU (ASUN)
ETSU (SoCon)
Tennessee Tech (OVC)
Austin Peay (OVC)
UT Martin (OVC)
EKU (OVC)
Murray State (OVC)

Example 2
Charlston Southern (Big South)
The Citadel (SoCon)
Mercer (SoCon)
Samford (SoCon)
Gardner Webb (Big South)
Campbell (Big South)
VMI (SoCon)
Western Carolina (SoCon)
Wofford (Socon)
Furman (SoCon)

[Lion1983]

I imagine if things got bad in the MEAC, SC State could join. I hear their president didn't want to abandon the FCS playoffs (I could be mishearing/remembering that).

Also, Kennesaw State to the FBS is a pipe dream. They would really love that, but it's not happening for at least a decade. Their attendance is horrible. For perspective, Old Dominion, Liberty, App, and Georgia Southern each averaged well over 14-15k before they moved up. Heck, Coastal was at about 8k or so. I'm not sure about Georgia State.

But unlike those other programs, KSU plays in a stadium that is much smaller and the attendance is just awful. If you go on their message board, they have as much activity as Wofford does and they are a much bigger schools.

I hear KSU folks mention FBS more often than other FCS programs, and I'm telling ya, it's a pipe dream. Coastal moving up was a big question mark, but they have the location to bid for a bowl game, so it's understandable. Maybe they exaggerate their attendance like everyone does.

But it's a lot harder to exaggerate with how bad the crowd size is at KSU.

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I agree, from what a KSU alum told me that is very close to the program, they like being were they are at. The KSU officials have no desire for FBS.

[katss07]

No chance any Southland team leaves for the Big South.

[BurialGround]

I agree, from what a KSU alum told me that is very close to the program, they like being were they are at. The KSU officials have no desire for FBS.

Not really true, it was no secret that KSU wanted to move up to FBS. Fortunately, most of them now realize that we need to spend more time building up the program before making such a move.

People get carried away with the size of our school (over 35k students), but they don't know the whole situation. Our support is good, all things considered, and over time it will grow (as long as we continue to put a winning product on the field). But people need to understand that:

-We didn't have an athletics program until 1983.

-We were a small junior college (later a 4-year college) playing in the NAIA until 1994.

-We weren't a full member of Division 1 until 2009.

-We weren't a big university until the 2000s. Our alumni base only numbers about 100k (1/3 the size of UGA's, which has a similar enrollment) and is YOUNG

-We're strongly a commuter school and almost half of the students are non-traditional

-By proportion, we have a higher number of international students than many schools

-Due to the size of the nursing and teaching programs at the school, we're about 2/3s female

-This is only our fifth year playing football

Gotta keep giving it time to grow.

[Lion1983]

No chance any Southland team leaves for the Big South.

I agree, just made a wishful response.

[Blue Waves Crest]

The two smallest conferences are the Big South and the Patriot. Unlike the latter, this is a healthy conversation as far as the Big South goes.

The Big South shares a structural defect much like the PL--the conference is not all-in on football. If some combination of High Point, Longwood, Radford, UCA, Upstate, and Winthrop were playing, this isn't even a topic. The league stays afloat with a pair of outliers (a very big Kennesaw State program on the southern flank, a very un-southern Monmouth program on the north). It's am open question whether either team will be in the Big South by the turn of the next decade--Kennesaw seems to be trending the growth of the Atlanta metro area and a Georgia State-like jump is not out of the question at some point. Monmouth is marooned in a fading basketball conference (MAAC) pending any interest of the neighboring NEC or PL.

Aside from a new program within the conference, there are three options for growth:

1. MEAC Schools: For all its cultural ties, the MEAC has not been a windfall to these schools. Hampton left to join the Big South, Sacannah State dropped to the SIAC, and at least one other school (NC A&T) is floating a move to join I-A. Adding Howard would be a nice tie-in with Hampton, but Howard has its own problems and may not want to bury the MEAC with a move out of an HBCU conference. Two better choices are Delaware State and Norfolk State.

2. Aspiring Pioneer Schools. Much like Campbell moving up from the PFL, Jacksonville has always seemed a potential candidate, although they have been hesitant to do so. Add in fellow A-Sun member Stetson to the conversation and it's worth some study.

3. A Division II call-up. Maybe there's a UNC-Pembroke or Wingate with an interest in the jump.

These are three options the Patriot does not have. It won't look to other conferences because their self-identified model for smaller liberal arts schools is a dying model in the Northeast. It won't consider PFL schools and the D-III callups gravitate to the NEC. They depend on its two associate members having little or no long term vision for football in a league that continues to decline in the I-AA firmament, and this justifies the PL sticking to the status quo.

Monmouth moved from the NEC to the MAAC in 2014 and the breakup was ugly, MU isn’t going back. With that being said, the Big South should be a temporary destination for them. It’s unfortunate because I think competitively it’s a great fit. In the six years as a Big South member we’re 18-14 in conference, 14-2 over the last three seasons, having finally broke through to win a title this year.

It’s an interesting case study because our bread is buttered by our men’s basketball program, which is the natural order of things for a small private school in the northeast. It garners the most fan interest among alumni and the locals because you can be instantly competitive nationally in a way you just can’t in football logistically (see our 2015-2017 hoops seasons).

With that being said UConn is going to be looking for a football home soon, maybe the CAA rounds out a 14 team football league with Monmouth. The schools are closer geographically, they attract more interest locally and are an easier sell to fans, even if that means less success on the field. No offense intended at all, football junkies like myself know the strength of these Big South programs but you also have to pitch it to people who don’t know football in order to cultivate a fan base. Up here, opponents like Albany and Stony Brook move the needle a lot more than Campbell and North Alabama just because of proximity, I’m sure it would be vice versa if we were talking about a southern school in a northeast-based conference.

I think the Big South is best suited aligning themselves with ambitious southern schools like Campbell and UNA and Kennesaw who will invest in their programs and become good. If that means doing what the NEC is doing and incubating D1 upstarts like Merrimack and LIU than more power to you guys. Locally I would have to imagine that works.


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[ngineer]

Another D-II program to look toward might be Lenoir-Rhyne?

[Lion1983]

Another D-II program to look toward might be Lenoir-Rhyne?

If it's a Big South all sports member, LR, UNC Pembroke, Carson Newman could be possible I guess. They are kinda small though and I dont know what their ambitions are.

If it's an ASUN/Big South member, the best fits from D2 would all come from the Gulf South Conference, West Florida would be choice number 1, West Georgia and Valdosta State would be 2 and 3. Florida Tech which is an associate membership in the GSC would be an option as well.

[UNHWildcat18]

Monmouth moved from the NEC to the MAAC in 2014 and the breakup was ugly, MU isn’t going back. With that being said, the Big South should be a temporary destination for them. It’s unfortunate because I think competitively it’s a great fit. In the six years as a Big South member we’re 18-14 in conference, 14-2 over the last three seasons, having finally broke through to win a title this year.

It’s an interesting case study because our bread is buttered by our men’s basketball program, which is the natural order of things for a small private school in the northeast. It garners the most fan interest among alumni and the locals because you can be instantly competitive nationally in a way you just can’t in football logistically (see our 2015-2017 hoops seasons).

With that being said UConn is going to be looking for a football home soon, maybe the CAA rounds out a 14 team football league with Monmouth. The schools are closer geographically, they attract more interest locally and are an easier sell to fans, even if that means less success on the field. No offense intended at all, football junkies like myself know the strength of these Big South programs but you also have to pitch it to people who don’t know football in order to cultivate a fan base. Up here, opponents like Albany and Stony Brook move the needle a lot more than Campbell and North Alabama just because of proximity, I’m sure it would be vice versa if we were talking about a southern school in a northeast-based conference.

I think the Big South is best suited aligning themselves with ambitious southern schools like Campbell and UNA and Kennesaw who will invest in their programs and become good. If that means doing what the NEC is doing and incubating D1 upstarts like Merrimack and LIU than more power to you guys. Locally I would have to imagine that works.


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All new CAA members need to be able to fit 8k plus. UCONN will drop football before FCS, I’m sure they will just bleed as an independent for a decade before that happens

[MR. CHICKEN]

Another D-II program to look toward might be Lenoir-Rhyne?

...........MARS HILL?..........AWK!

[ElCid]

...........MARS HILL?..........AWK!

They are even smaller than Wofford...1300 or so. Not a lot of depth to make the jump.

Lenoir–Rhyne is about twice as big.

[MR. CHICKEN]

...HOW 'BOUT......CATAWBA?......xdontknowx....BRAWK!

[ElCid]

...HOW 'BOUT......CATAWBA?......xdontknowx....BRAWK!

Smaller than Mars Hill.

[Professor]

I imagine if things got bad in the MEAC, SC State could join. I hear their president didn't want to abandon the FCS playoffs (I could be mishearing/remembering that).

Also, Kennesaw State to the FBS is a pipe dream. They would really love that, but it's not happening for at least a decade. Their attendance is horrible. For perspective, Old Dominion, Liberty, App, and Georgia Southern each averaged well over 14-15k before they moved up. Heck, Coastal was at about 8k or so. I'm not sure about Georgia State.

But unlike those other programs, KSU plays in a stadium that is much smaller and the attendance is just awful. If you go on their message board, they have as much activity as Wofford does and they are a much bigger schools.

I hear KSU folks mention FBS more often than other FCS programs, and I'm telling ya, it's a pipe dream. Coastal moving up was a big question mark, but they have the location to bid for a bowl game, so it's understandable. Maybe they exaggerate their attendance like everyone does.

But it's a lot harder to exaggerate with how bad the crowd size is at KSU.

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Unless a couple of schools pull out the MEAC , No one will be leaving. The Big South went after several schools in the MEAC and only got Hampton. Who is really trying to find a way to the CAA. The Big South's problem is that they are the little brother of the Southern Conf. And they show no real plan to improve their standing in the FCS world

[Blue Waves Crest]

All new CAA members need to be able to fit 8k plus. UCONN will drop football before FCS, I’m sure they will just bleed as an independent for a decade before that happens

Monmouth has the space to play around with temporary seating setups to accommodate 8K. Right now the seating is just on one sideline but there’s nothing in the end zones or far sideline. It wouldn’t be full but I doubt they would let a technicality get in the way of doing what needed to be done to find long term conference stability. Why do you say no FCS for UConn?


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[MR. CHICKEN]

Smaller than Mars Hill.

.....WIKIPEDIA...SAYS....CATAWBA....OFFERS OVERAH 70 FIELDS UH STUDY...IN VARIETY UH DISCIPLINES.......WHAAA LIKE........13-15...TA UH CLASS..xconfusedx...AN' DOES....COLLEGE SIZE...REALLY MATTER...xconfusedx.......BAWK!

[Sir William]

Highly, highly unlikely any school from D2 South Atlantic League moves up to D1.

However, one possible future mover-upper could be North Greenville from D2 Gulf South. They’ve got the fan base, $$ and facilities to compete in Big South. Would be immediate natural rivalry for Chuck South and Gardner Webb.

[DFW HOYA]

Why do you say no FCS for UConn?
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A 40,000 seat Rentschler Field hosting CAA games is not feasible. Times were different when people came to games at Memorial Stadium (since demolished) but no one is driving to East Hartford to watch Elon or Towson.

UConn is losing a lot of money on athletics and while I-A independent status isn't great, it at least brings some revenue in.

[Blue Waves Crest]

A 40,000 seat Rentschler Field hosting CAA games is not feasible. Times were different when people came to games at Memorial Stadium (since demolished) but no one is driving to East Hartford to watch Elon or Towson.

UConn is losing a lot of money on athletics and while I-A independent status isn't great, it at least brings some revenue in.

Elon and Towson are the two least attractive draws you could’ve cited, what about Albany Stony Brook UNH Villanova Maine URI and JMU? I get that it’s not as good as playing in the old Big East, but let’s compare UConn’s two options here:

FBS: assemble an independent schedule playing some combination of Rutgers, Boston College, Syracuse, UMass, Pitt, Penn State, Temple, Army, Navy. It’s not a bad option, some of the old Big East rivalries would be renewed. Downside is they aren’t competing for a championship of any kind, they’re competing to go 6-5 against that slate plus two CAA teams and play in a meaningless, far-flung bowl game. The long term play at this level is basically to wait for the cord cutting bubble to hit major college football and for those aforementioned schools minus PSU to recreate the old Big East football conference

FCS: once they get past the shock there’s a lot of headway that can be made playing in the CAA. For a program that’s in trouble financially, going from 85 to 63 scholarships is considerable. They would have a leg up on the schools in the CAA in terms of talent and recruiting ability with facilities and would instantly be one of the three best teams in the league competing for a conference championship and a national championship. I get that it’s not FBS but I think competing for some kind of championship still resonates more with students alumni and fans than the lone ranger FBS independent status would. Championships create proud tradition, going 7-5 with a win in the Boca Raton Bowl probably doesn’t. In fact a lot of FBS teams lose money on bowl trips, and for a school that can make serious money with basketball you just want football to be a source of pride and exposure without losing the basketball money

The leg up that the FBS option has is that the schools I mentioned (minus PSU Army and Navy) average 25K undergrads to UConn’s 24K, whereas the CAA teams I mentioned average 14K. The other FBS schools are closer peers to UConn and are more impressive on a pocket schedule. I’d love to hear more opinions on this


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[UNHWildcat18]

Monmouth has the space to play around with temporary seating setups to accommodate 8K. Right now the seating is just on one sideline but there’s nothing in the end zones or far sideline. It wouldn’t be full but I doubt they would let a technicality get in the way of doing what needed to be done to find long term conference stability. Why do you say no FCS for UConn?

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Couple things. NJ barely let you build the stadium you currently have, no way they let you build in end zones and other side with parking needed to double capacity. CAA has plenty of stability even if they lost a team or two. No reason to add Monmouth or CCSU or any other team for that matter. UCONN will not drop to FCS. They are bleeding money. Basketball is their real money ticket, they bleed at FBS until they get in a power 5 conference(doubtful) or they will drop football all together down the road.

[The Cats]

Has High Point shown any interest in football? They seem to have LOTS of dollars to throw at athletics.

[DFW HOYA]

Good conversation here. A few points:

1. The claim that "For a program that’s in trouble financially, going from 85 to 63 scholarships is considerable." is misleading in one respect: what you gain in 22 fewer scholarships ($303,356 in tuition savings per the UConn website), you lose much more in lost guarantee games (limited to maybe two in CAA) and the hope, albeit distant), of picking up a call from the Boca Raton Bowl for a $1,000,000 payout because the 7th place AAC team didn't qualify. There's a reason why low tier I-A schools don't come back to I-AA for the glory or playoff competition--it just isn't worth it.

2. Come June, UConn turns back the clock and rejoins the Big East. How much money will they realistically devote to a non-Big East sport? That's an issue at Villanova (which could probably compete in I-A if they were committed to it), and to a lesser extent at Georgetown and Butler. Sure, Georgetown needs 60 scholarships to realistically compete, but that's 60 scholarships that wouldn't be going to Big East programs that lack them as well. How much (and how long) is UConn going to invest in a program at the relative trade-off expense of funding a really good tennis, lacrosse, or track program?

3. The AAC wants nothing to do with UConn going forward and it's hard to blame them. The Huskies' best hope, pending some sort of meteor that forms over Chestnut Hill and ESPN...er, make that the ACC's interest in a New England team, is to align with the Northeastern schools like UMass, Buffalo, Army, Navy, Temple, and perhaps JMU down the road in some sort of regular scheduling alliance, absent a conference of their own. Its upcoming schedules are much better than I would have thought (2020 includes UMass, Illinois, Virginia, Indiana, Old Dominion, Maine, Ole Miss, Liberty, UNC, San Jose State, Middle Tennessee, and Army) with future series lined up with Purdue, Clemson, BC, Duke, and Maryland) and with a little luck, they can hold their own.

4. Absent this, the only scenario which might attract their interest is that the CAA sheds itself of the smaller capacity schools and takes in UConn and UMass for some sort of I-AA super-conference, along the lines of UMass, UConn, JMU, Delaware, Villanova, Stony Brook, etc. Thoughts?

[Baron Sardonicus]

Current administrations at Jacksonville and Stetson are not interested in spending more on this sport. Someday, there will be new faces, and the situation might change. However, since neither school aspires to be an all-sports member of the Big South, I don't see it happening. Football only is a non-starter.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Which Big South school will be the next member of the Pioneer? I predict Gardner-Webb.

[ElCid]

.....WIKIPEDIA...SAYS....CATAWBA....OFFERS OVERAH 70 FIELDS UH STUDY...IN VARIETY UH DISCIPLINES.......WHAAA LIKE........13-15...TA UH CLASS..xconfusedx...AN' DOES....COLLEGE SIZE...REALLY MATTER...xconfusedx.......BAWK!

I think it does. At least in most cases. Attendance, donations, etc. Sure they could, but they wouldn't get a huge amount of support. Maybe some schools with deeper pockets can. But it's tough for small schools to make ends meet to a level needed to be even close to competitive.

[ElCid]

Highly, highly unlikely and school from D2 South Atlantic League moves up to D1.

However, one possible future mover-upper could be North Greenville from D2 Gulf South. They’ve got the fan base, $$ and facilities to compete in Big South. Would be immediate natural rivalry for Chuck South and Gardner Webb.

They have a real nice stadium. Went there when our game with them was moved due to hurricane a few years ago. Better than some FCS...cough...CSU....cough.

[Lion1983]

Which Big South school will be the next member of the Pioneer? I predict Gardner-Webb.

Presbyterian

[Lion1983]

Unless a couple of schools pull out the MEAC , No one will be leaving. The Big South went after several schools in the MEAC and only got Hampton. Who is really trying to find a way to the CAA. The Big South's problem is that they are the little brother of the Southern Conf. And they show no real plan to improve their standing in the FCS world

The real problem of the Big South has nothing to do with being the "little brother" of the SoCon. And Hampton approached the Big South, the Big South didnt approach anyone from the MEAC.

The real problem is that their main pieces all left for FBS. Now they have to basically rely on 3 schools not full Big South members to keep football afloat.

Presbyterian has shown scholarship ball isn't for them.
Gardner Webb seems to be on the same track.

What is concerning for UNA, Monmouth, and Kennesaw St, is, if one more full Big South member was to move to Pioneer or even drop football, what will happen?

I'm sure Monmouth may be able to get another associate membership, but KSU and UNA? The OVC probably wouldn't, the SoCon probably wouldn't.

So in my eyes, either the Big South or ASUN or both, need to invite another football school.

[Lion1983]

By the way, if I was the Big South, I wouldn't be afraid to get Tarleton State as an associate member since they are going to be independents for a while otherwise.

It is called the BIG South, so let's spread out the football and be BIG.

[Reign of Terrier]

I've heard conflicting bits on KSU and the socon, none of it official, obviously.

I've heard that KSU isn't interested in going socon because they want to go FBS, and I've heard the socon isn't interested in KSU bc KSU's athletic budget is supposedly a lot bigger.

It's in the socon's best interest to have both JSU and KSU in our conference IMO.

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[Blue Waves Crest]

Couple things. NJ barely let you build the stadium you currently have, no way they let you build in end zones and other side with parking needed to double capacity. CAA has plenty of stability even if they lost a team or two. No reason to add Monmouth or CCSU or any other team for that matter. UCONN will not drop to FCS. They are bleeding money. Basketball is their real money ticket, they bleed at FBS until they get in a power 5 conference(doubtful) or they will drop football all together down the road.

NJ wasn’t in the way, it’s West Long Branch. They have all kinds of building ordinances, really regressive stuff like limits on the number of stories of buildings on campus and a restriction on the use of field lights. Get this: our soccer field (which is used by lacrosse too on occasion) was allowed to add field lights because that part of campus is in Long Branch, but the football stadium could not because it violated West Long Branch ordinances. Very very backward. But I mention that specifically because it’s easier to knock heads with the borough than it is the state. And as far as conference stability I was referring to Monmouth not to the CAA. The CAA doesn’t need Monmouth but Monmouth needs the CAA. And it’s for that reason that I say Monmouth should (and hopefully will) do what it needs to do to get to the CAA. I don’t see an AD that just raised $15M to build a new facility stopping short of finding a long term home for the football team. Especially when what’s required is not necessarily more money, but awkward conversations with the borough’s office

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[walliver]

I think it does. At least in most cases. Attendance, donations, etc. Sure they could, but they wouldn't get a huge amount of support. Maybe some schools with deeper pockets can. But it's tough for small schools to make ends meet to a level needed to be even close to competitive.
It can be done, but conditions have to be just right. It was clear from the start that PC was over-reaching.

[Blue Waves Crest]

Would you guys say it’s easier for a D2/D3 program to move up to D1 in the Big South, or for an existing Big South nonfootball member to add the sport? I’d say the former but I would imagine the dynamics are somewhat different in the southeast compared to the northeast


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[Lion1983]

Would you guys say it’s easier for a D2/D3 program to move up to D1 in the Big South, or for an existing Big South nonfootball member to add the sport? I’d say the former but I would imagine the dynamics are somewhat different in the southeast compared to the northeast


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Going through it at the moment, it is easier for a current D1 school to add football if the funds are there.

A D2 school moving up automatically gets put on probation for 4 years, in that time, they are supposed to "build" their scholarships up to the amount allowed. The problem then lies in recruiting. A good recruit may love everything about your school and program, but cant participate in the post season for the 4 years required. Therefore (as we have found out) recruits will go to another program for the opportunity to win conference championships and play in the playoffs.

On the flip side, a current D1 school starts football, no probation is required, the only thing restricting them will only be the schools resources.

[WestCoastAggie]

Unless a couple of schools pull out the MEAC , No one will be leaving. The Big South went after several schools in the MEAC and only got Hampton. Who is really trying to find a way to the CAA. The Big South's problem is that they are the little brother of the Southern Conf. And they show no real plan to improve their standing in the FCS world

***Snicker***

[WestCoastAggie]

I hope you all realize the most logical invitee for the Big South is A&T. It's only a matter of time before this grenade drops in 2020, IMHO.

Having Hampton and NCAT in the Big South for all sports is gonna help anchor success of the BBall tournament in Charlotte beginning in 2021.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Presbyterian

Lol. Yes, I suppose I'm getting ahead of myself.

[Reign of Terrier]

I hope you all realize the most logical invitee for the Big South is A&T. It's only a matter of time before this grenade drops in 2020, IMHO.

Having Hampton and NCAT in the Big South for all sports is gonna help anchor success of the BBall tournament in Charlotte beginning in 2021.That would be very interesting.

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[WestCoastAggie]

That would be very interesting.

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Interesting is an understatement. There will be an internal civil war with Alumni and feelings will get hurt on both sides. But, those feelings will subside once alumni learn how jacked up the MEAC front office has been ran in the 2000s. The Celebration Bowl was a hailmary and there are sour feelings at how the bowl game money is divvied up.

[Lion1983]

I would love to see A&T in the Big South.

[Blue Waves Crest]

Going through it at the moment, it is easier for a current D1 school to add football if the funds are there.

A D2 school moving up automatically gets put on probation for 4 years, in that time, they are supposed to "build" their scholarships up to the amount allowed. The problem then lies in recruiting. A good recruit may love everything about your school and program, but cant participate in the post season for the 4 years required. Therefore (as we have found out) recruits will go to another program for the opportunity to win conference championships and play in the playoffs.

On the flip side, a current D1 school starts football, no probation is required, the only thing restricting them will only be the schools resources.

The four year probation is such a dumb rule. It’s not like you guys aren’t competitive, if you guys went out and won the league before 2022 then more power to you! What’s the point in them not being able to compete for a championship, like what’s actually gained? Nobody’s moving up to D1 to get their **** kicked in and immediately drop back down to D2/D3. Like you said it’s more of a hindrance to growth and almost penalizes/disincentivizes programs from having ambition.

I thought UNA looked like it had some dudes when you came up to Kessler. A lot of size and speed at DL, LB, WR. We struggled to do anything against your front seven for the first half. You’re gonna have a sick team very soon


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[Bisonoline]

Going through it at the moment, it is easier for a current D1 school to add football if the funds are there.

A D2 school moving up automatically gets put on probation for 4 years, in that time, they are supposed to "build" their scholarships up to the amount allowed. The problem then lies in recruiting. A good recruit may love everything about your school and program, but cant participate in the post season for the 4 years required. Therefore (as we have found out) recruits will go to anot her program for the opportunity to win conference championships and play in the playoffs.

On the flip side, a current D1 school starts football, no probation is required, the only thing restricting them will only be the schools resources.

That isnt necessarily true. All depends on who the recruiter is and the culture of the program. We had some excellent recruiting classes when we were transitioning.

[Blue Waves Crest]

That isnt necessarily true. All depends on who the recruiter is and the culture of the program. We had some excellent recruiting classes when we were transitioning.

While true, what is the point of the probation period? They’re playing a full Big South schedule, what are we protecting them from? And I don’t think anyone liked having UNA’s games not count towards the conference record this season. It was so weird. “Yea they’re in the Big South but it’s a nonconference game because they have a four year probation period for joining the league” is a clunky way to sell their games lol


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[Bisonoline]

While true, what is the point of the probation period? They’re playing a full Big South schedule, what are we protecting them from? And I don’t think anyone liked having UNA’s games not count towards the conference record this season. It was so weird. “Yea they’re in the Big South but it’s a nonconference game because they have a four year probation period for joining the league” is a clunky way to sell their games lol


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Point of the probationary period is for the institution to come in to compliance and maintain compliance in regards to D1 administrative ,academic and athletic guidelines. According to Gene Taylor our AD at the time that is now at Kansas State he said the most surprising challenges was bringing the administrative and academic guidelines up to D1 standards. But if you are able to do so earlier than 4 years you can have the NCAA come in for an early inspection to shorten the probationary period.

[Twentysix]

While true, what is the point of the probation period? They’re playing a full Big South schedule, what are we protecting them from? And I don’t think anyone liked having UNA’s games not count towards the conference record this season. It was so weird. “Yea they’re in the Big South but it’s a nonconference game because they have a four year probation period for joining the league” is a clunky way to sell their games lol


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I think the probation period also restricts said school from receiving conference revenue. Not paying a team their cut of the NCAA money in MBB can be kind of significant, them not even being eligible for said tourney likely makes that an easier pill to swallow.

[Lion1983]

That isnt necessarily true. All depends on who the recruiter is and the culture of the program. We had some excellent recruiting classes when we were transitioning.

You are right, but let's be honest, NDSU and UNA are two totally different animals, and I'm talking on the state level. Yall and ND are the biggest games in the state, we have to contend with 7 different schools that are not Alabama or Auburn for in state recruiting. Even the marginally good FCS caliber player is going to choose on of the other schools over a school that has its hands tied for 4 years.

Were as in North Dakota, that player is going to go to NDSU or North Dakota, in most cases, even in a transition.

[Bisonoline]

You are right, but let's be honest, NDSU and UNA are two totally different animals, and I'm talking on the state level. Yall and ND are the biggest games in the state, we have to contend with 7 different schools that are not Alabama or Auburn for in state recruiting. Even the marginally good FCS caliber player is going to choose on of the other schools over a school that has its hands tied for 4 years.

Were as in North Dakota, that player is going to go to NDSU or North Dakota, in most cases, even in a transition.

If you have that attitude it will never happen. We were told we would never compete for a national championship again if we moved up. It all starts at the top.You have to have administrators with vision to make the move. Excuses will get you no where.

[Lion1983]

If you have that attitude it will never happen. We were told we would never compete for a national championship again if we moved up. It all starts at the top.You have to have administrators with vision to make the move. Excuses will get you no where.

I dont have that attitude, I'm just pointing out the challenge difference. We will overcome it, just a little extra tough during a transition period. We are going to be the best FCS program in the state. Period.

[Bisonoline]

I dont have that attitude, I'm just pointing out the challenge difference. We will overcome it, just a little extra tough during a transition period. We are going to be the best FCS program in the state. Period.

I wish you guys the best!!!!!!