FCS PLAYOFFS: Southern Illinois Head Coach Reacts To Being Left Home

[centennial]

"We scheduled two FBS games, and (playoff-bound) SEMO and (7-5) UT Martin. That's our non-conference schedule. So I guess they're saying that if we'd beaten UMass (the blowout FBS win on SIU's resume) and beaten just one more lower FCS opponent, we're in (with eight wins)."

The argument could be made.
Just hours after pushing No. 1 seeded NDSU hard in Carbondale (game was tied 7-7 with five minutes left in the 3rd quarter - SIU eventually fell 21-7), the Salukis would find out the resume apparently wasn't strong enough. SIU had won five straight MVFC games -- four decisively -- coming into the season-finale with the Bison, then pushed the defending national champions hard. SIU's argument is that its seven-win season includes a blowout FBS win, a 5-3 record in traditionally the toughest conference in the FCS, it finished the year strongly and scheduled tough outside of the conference. Meanwhile, seven-win teams with no FBS wins -- North Dakota, Furman (throwing out its NAIA win) and SE Louisiana got in.

"I know it's about the whole body of work (in the FCS) and I'm throwing excuses out there ... ultimately, we have to win more games," Hill said. "I think we're fighting to get back to having more respect from the whole country. But we're going to get back to work. The culture of our program is to handle things the right way."



https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2019-southern-illinois-fcs-playoff-snub-nick-hill-ajaj

Would SIU to be in if they avoid a second FBS for a lower level D1 team? What case do UND/ SELA/ KSU have over SIU?

[Daytripper]

SIU should be in over KSU in my opinion.

[Professor Chaos]

I think there is something to be said for avoiding multiple FBS games on your schedule. Losing those games doesn't hurt you directly but it does hurt indirectly because it takes away a reasonable shot at an extra D1 win you could've gotten by scheduling another FCS team. Austin Peay had the same argument in 2017 when they scheduled 3 FBS games, lost all of them, went 8-4 (8-1 vs FCS) and were left out.

I also see the argument the committee made when they said that SIU played 4 playoff teams and lost to them all. If they can't beat playoff caliber teams in the regular season is there any reason to think they'd be able to do it in the postseason?

I also think the committee (correctly) valued the win over UMass about as low as you can for an FBS win. I don't think UMass would even be a FCS playoff team if they played a full FCS schedule this year.

[Professor Chaos]

Another unfortunate scheduling quirk that happened this year was had Furman not bought out of their game with Kennesaw (so they could play a 2nd FBS game I believe) either SIU or South Carolina St would've been in the playoffs. The loser of that Furman/Kennesaw game would not have made the playoffs.

[TheRevSFA]

every year a deserving team gets left out.

They deserved to be in over KSU. KSU is a paper tiger.

[WestCoastAggie]

Financially, did SIU really need 2 FBS games when they have well over 20,000 students subsidizing their athletic department with fees?

[Professor]

Maybe they should schedule better lol

[Professor Chaos]

Financially, did SIU really need 2 FBS games when they have well over 20,000 students subsidizing their athletic department with fees?
The state of Illinois is in the midst of a higher education funding crisis. And I think that enrollment number includes SIU-Carbondale (the SIU we all know) and SIU-Edwardsville.

Some fans from the Illinois FCS teams could probably fill that in a lot better than I could.

[uni88]

Financially, did SIU really need 2 FBS games when they have well over 20,000 students subsidizing their athletic department with fees?Are you combining the SIU Carbondale and Edwardsville campuses?

Illinois directional schools have had issues due to state financial woes.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[F'N Hawks]

https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2019-southern-illinois-fcs-playoff-snub-nick-hill-ajaj

Would SIU to be in if they avoid a second FBS for a lower level D1 team? What case do UND/ SELA/ KSU have over SIU?

Not a good look for Nick "dying on the quality loss" Hill. I read several of his quotes and he basically argues that they lost to good teams that are better than them, and therefore, should be rewarded for it.

[kalm]

I think there is something to be said for avoiding multiple FBS games on your schedule. Losing those games doesn't hurt you directly but it does hurt indirectly because it takes away a reasonable shot at an extra D1 win you could've gotten by scheduling another FCS team. Austin Peay had the same argument in 2017 when they scheduled 3 FBS games, lost all of them, went 8-4 (8-1 vs FCS) and were left out.

I also see the argument the committee made when they said that SIU played 4 playoff teams and lost to them all. If they can't beat playoff caliber teams in the regular season is there any reason to think they'd be able to do it in the postseason?

I also think the committee (correctly) valued the win over UMass about as low as you can for an FBS win. I don't think UMass would even be a FCS playoff team if they played a full FCS schedule this year.

Good points. What’s interesting is that most teams don’t face 4 playoff teams and you have teams on the seed line like SDSU, Nova, SEMO, that are at-large o-for like SIU. Albany and Furman are two more without a win over a playoff team.

Not only should you avoid two FBS but also any FCS playoff caliber teams. I for one want to see the opposite happen.

[ElCid]

I also see the argument the committee made when they said that SIU played 4 playoff teams and lost to them all. If they can't beat playoff caliber teams in the regular season is there any reason to think they'd be able to do it in the postseason?


That about sums it up. Now people will say, but what about teams x, y, and z who were chosen and didn't beat any playoff teams. That may be so, but they may not have had any on the schedule either, or only one. So that enters the realm of speculation. In this case it is not speculation, but fact, they didn't win any.

[Sycamore62]

I think they have a comparable argument to us from last year. although they beat UMass and we beat D2 Quincy, we had wins at the end of the season that ended 2 teams' playoff hopes.

[WestCoastAggie]

The state of Illinois is in the midst of a higher education funding crisis. And I think that enrollment number includes SIU-Carbondale (the SIU we all know) and SIU-Edwardsville.

Some fans from the Illinois FCS teams could probably fill that in a lot better than I could.

Sounds familiar honestly. It seems like schools have do decide on whether to schedule to generate revenue to pay off deficits or schedule for a playoff run. It seems there are way more schools out here, not just in the MEAC or SWAC, that need to make some tough scheduling decisions.

[WrenFGun]

I think there's two things worth being justifiably upset about if you're an FCS fan:

1. Southern Illinois goes toe-to-toe with the best team in the country, beats an FBS team, gets to 7 DI wins, plays in the toughest conference in FCS and gets left out of the playoffs in favor of a team that lost to the only playoff team they played, played two non-counters, and beat a mediocre MVFC team by 11. Southern Illinois beat that same team by 23! The committee is sending the wrong message with their selections in general, telling teams to play soft non-conference schedules and pile up the wins instead of focusing on quality opponents. It doesn't even matter how KSU does against Wofford, an 8 D1 team with that resume is a joke and the committee should face serious heat for that.

2. I was obviously advocating for UNH, but I think the other team that should be scratching their head a bit here is Eastern Washington. Kennesaw State appears to have gotten the benefit for being a darling last year, but uh, Eastern Washington's paper numbers are fantastic. I think the D2 game hurts, but if UNH is on the cusp, why isn't EWU? They had a win over a playoff team and finish tied in 2nd in the Big Sky. I'm not saying they should've gotten in, but how the hell is Towson on that list and EWU isn't. I think this is a team that was buried prematurely and deserved a better look. I think the same fate would've met Maine, who with a win over UNH would've closed at 7-5 with 5 straight wins. The committee needs to not bury teams early.

[ST_Lawson]

Financially, did SIU really need 2 FBS games when they have well over 20,000 students subsidizing their athletic department with fees?

SIU-C has 11,695 students this semester. They've been smaller than SIU-E (which is a separate university in the same "system", but has it's own athletics department) for the last two years.
Also, funding from the state, while it's started to pick back up, is WAY down from where it was 10-20 years ago, and the state universities went through a period of 2 years of no "assured" funding and significantly less actual funding with our previous governor. In a season with 12 games, it doesn't surprise me that a "regional" state school would try for two FBS games to bring in more money. We did the same thing in 2013 and 2014 (both were 12-game seasons), and that was before the huge funding and enrollment decreases. We also made sure to follow up those two FBS games with two "easy" games though, so we were pretty much assured a 2-2 record going into conference season. SIU, on the other hand, has their rivalry game with SEMO and played UT-Martin, neither of which were what I'd consider "easy wins" (especially not SEMO this year).

[WestCoastAggie]

I'm starting to think that Division 2 playoff format with 28 teams might be the way to go.

[WestCoastAggie]

SIU-C has 11,695 students this semester. They've been smaller than SIU-E (which is a separate university in the same "system", but has it's own athletics department) for the last two years.
Also, funding from the state, while it's started to pick back up, is WAY down from where it was 10-20 years ago, and the state universities went through a period of 2 years of no "assured" funding and significantly less actual funding with our previous governor. In a season with 12 games, it doesn't surprise me that a "regional" state school would try for two FBS games to bring in more money. We did the same thing in 2013 and 2014 (both were 12-game seasons), and that was before the huge funding and enrollment decreases. We also made sure to follow up those two FBS games with two "easy" games though, so we were pretty much assured a 2-2 record going into conference season. SIU, on the other hand, has their rivalry game with SEMO and played UT-Martin, neither of which were what I'd consider "easy wins" (especially not SEMO this year).

I thought Carbondale had way more students than that.

[Nor Eastern]

I'm starting to think that Division 2 playoff format with 28 teams might be the way to go.


I'm thinking we get back to 16 teams

[ST_Lawson]

I thought Carbondale had way more students than that.

They used to (other than U of Illinois and Illinois State, we all used to).
In the last decade (2009-2019), SIU-C has dropped 42.53% from 20,350 to 11,695
In that same timeframe, fellow FCS schools EIU and WIU have dropped 34.77% and 39.87% respectively.
Chicago State (DI, no football) dropped essentially 59%, and Northern Illinois (DI FBS) dropped 32%.

Southern Illinois is now where Western Illinois was only 6 years ago.

[centennial]

Not a good look for Nick "dying on the quality loss" Hill. I read several of his quotes and he basically argues that they lost to good teams that are better than them, and therefore, should be rewarded for it.

The only common opponent that SIU/ UND had was NDSU. NDSU could have run 50 on UND, SIU looked like a solid team. They also beat a FBS, was in a good game with the 2nd best Sun Belt team. They were also 5-3 in the MVFC. At the end of the year a much better team than at the start. I think they take UND, SELA, Furman and KSU on a neutral field.

[centennial]

I think there is something to be said for avoiding multiple FBS games on your schedule. Losing those games doesn't hurt you directly but it does hurt indirectly because it takes away a reasonable shot at an extra D1 win you could've gotten by scheduling another FCS team. Austin Peay had the same argument in 2017 when they scheduled 3 FBS games, lost all of them, went 8-4 (8-1 vs FCS) and were left out.

I also see the argument the committee made when they said that SIU played 4 playoff teams and lost to them all. If they can't beat playoff caliber teams in the regular season is there any reason to think they'd be able to do it in the postseason?

I also think the committee (correctly) valued the win over UMass about as low as you can for an FBS win. I don't think UMass would even be a FCS playoff team if they played a full FCS schedule this year.

Austin Peay was robbed in 2017, they were a top 15 team that year. Shame that money dictates not reaching the post season.

[PaladinFan]

Another unfortunate scheduling quirk that happened this year was had Furman not bought out of their game with Kennesaw (so they could play a 2nd FBS game I believe) either SIU or South Carolina St would've been in the playoffs. The loser of that Furman/Kennesaw game would not have made the playoffs.

Setting aside that there is debate from both sides regarding who requested to move the game, it wasn't "bought out," I believe, but rescheduled. I assume that is because Big South teams have a lot of flexibility in their schedules, finding another date isn't that difficult. Furman and KSU are still scheduled to play, just not in 2019.

Furman does tend to try and schedule two FBS games in "12 game" seasons. I do not particularly enjoy that they do that, but it is what it is. I don't know whether they requested KSU to move the game to accommodate that. Clay Hendrix suggested in a recent interview that KSU requested to move the game, not Furman. The original Oct. 5, 2019 date was not on the date Furman played either of the FBS opponents this season. It was KSU's bye week.

In any event, the Furman/KSU game wasn't played, but that is also not an explanation for why Kennesaw played such a weak schedule.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

For SIU, losing all your games against playoffs teams is not good. UMass win is not that impressive.

Win another game in conference or OOC and this is a non issue.

Springboard for next year or back to mediocrity for SIU?

[PaladinFan]

For SIU, losing all your games against playoffs teams is not good. UMass win is not that impressive.

Win another game in conference or OOC and this is a non issue.

Springboard for next year or back to mediocrity for SIU?

I was beyond annoyed at Furman's snub last year. I thought the Paladins were one of the 24 best teams in the country.

At the same time, Furman blew a 21 point lead at East Tennessee. It cost them a sole championship, the auto bid, and a playoff spot. You have to win your games.

[Sycamore62]

For SIU, losing all your games against playoffs teams is not good. UMass win is not that impressive.

Win another game in conference or OOC and this is a non issue.

Springboard for next year or back to mediocrity for SIU?

Or all your good players get hurt and you go from top 15 back to crap. (been a rough year for me)

[ysubigred]

I'm starting to think that Division 2 playoff format with 28 teams might be the way to go.

NO WAY! Go back to 16 and pick the best 16 based on scheduling strength etc.. No auto bids for conference champs!

[CappinHard]

Not a good look for Nick "dying on the quality loss" Hill. I read several of his quotes and he basically argues that they lost to good teams that are better than them, and therefore, should be rewarded for it.

I mean, his argument has merit. However, he's naive if he didn't realize that scheduling a cupcake instead of another FBS definitely increases your chance at making the playoffs. Wrong or right, that's the way it is.

[Mattymc727]

I said this on the UNH board, but there is a different cross to bear when you are signed up to be in a stronger conference. You get more opportunities to prove yourself, but more opportunities to stumble as well.

In UNHs case, all it had to do was get to 7 wins, and it didn't, that's on UNH. Beat HC, UD, or Albany and you're in. UNH did not deserve to make the playoffs.

In SIUs case, it had 4 opportunities to beat a playoff team and get in, and it didn't.

It stinks, but playing in a tougher conference makes you a better team in the long run, even though these years provide a short term sting.

SIU had a stronger case for the playoffs than UNH, and KSU

[centennial]

NO WAY! Go back to 16 and pick the best 16 based on scheduling strength etc.. No auto bids for conference champs!

We have gotten back to the Big Dance argument from the Big 12. Might as well call it the MVFC-CAA-BigSky invitational at that point.

[Sycamore62]

NO WAY! Go back to 16 and pick the best 16 based on scheduling strength etc.. No auto bids for conference champs!

go to 32. More games are more better

[ysubigred]

We have gotten back to the Big Dance argument from the Big 12. Might as well call it the MVFC-CAA-BigSky invitational at that point.

It is what it is. MVFC, CAA, and Big Sky teams have to deal with each other to win ~7 - 8 games a year. As bad as YSU was this year only winning 2 games in the MVFC I'd bet a pay check they'd drill 3 or 4 of this years playoff teams,, Let alone what SIU would do to them xtwocentsx

[ElCid]

NO WAY! Go back to 16 and pick the best 16 based on scheduling strength etc.. No auto bids for conference champs!

No. That is bogus. Autobids are the only true objective part of the process. Everything else is subjective. Want to see interest fall off even faster? If you win your conf, you deserve a shot. Yes that is sometimes a freebie for some second round team, but the alternative would be worse. That is what the at larges are for. You don't fix one problem by creating another. Besides, it will never happen.

[ysubigred]

go to 32. More games are more better

Well "IF" you want to go that route all the 116 teams make it xlmaox

[Professor Chaos]

I think there's two things worth being justifiably upset about if you're an FCS fan:

1. Southern Illinois goes toe-to-toe with the best team in the country, beats an FBS team, gets to 7 DI wins, plays in the toughest conference in FCS and gets left out of the playoffs in favor of a team that lost to the only playoff team they played, played two non-counters, and beat a mediocre MVFC team by 11. Southern Illinois beat that same team by 23! The committee is sending the wrong message with their selections in general, telling teams to play soft non-conference schedules and pile up the wins instead of focusing on quality opponents. It doesn't even matter how KSU does against Wofford, an 8 D1 team with that resume is a joke and the committee should face serious heat for that.

2. I was obviously advocating for UNH, but I think the other team that should be scratching their head a bit here is Eastern Washington. Kennesaw State appears to have gotten the benefit for being a darling last year, but uh, Eastern Washington's paper numbers are fantastic. I think the D2 game hurts, but if UNH is on the cusp, why isn't EWU? They had a win over a playoff team and finish tied in 2nd in the Big Sky. I'm not saying they should've gotten in, but how the hell is Towson on that list and EWU isn't. I think this is a team that was buried prematurely and deserved a better look. I think the same fate would've met Maine, who with a win over UNH would've closed at 7-5 with 5 straight wins. The committee needs to not bury teams early.
The thing with EWU is I look at their schedule, who they beat and who they lost to, and I just didn't see the backing for those on paper numbers. They had one pretty good win against UND but they had a brutal loss to Idaho. That loss to Jacksonville St didn't look very good by year's end either.

[lionsrking2]

The only common opponent that SIU/ UND had was NDSU. NDSU could have run 50 on UND, SIU looked like a solid team. They also beat a FBS, was in a good game with the 2nd best Sun Belt team. They were also 5-3 in the MVFC. At the end of the year a much better team than at the start. I think they take UND, SELA, Furman and KSU on a neutral field.

I bet they wouldn't.

[Professor Chaos]

Austin Peay was robbed in 2017, they were a top 15 team that year. Shame that money dictates not reaching the post season.
I don't think Austin Peay was robbed of anything in 2017. The OVC was especially weak that year and they didn't do themselves any favors then they scheduled 3 FBS games (which I think they picked up that UCF game late after UCF had an earlier game cancelled) and Morehead St out of conference. They basically scheduled themselves into either getting the OVC auto or being out.

If you look at APSU's schedule this year there's not a single FBS team on it and they scheduled Central Arkansas as well. They won the OVC auto so it didn't matter but it certainly is a different scheduling philosophy this year than it was two years ago for them.

[Sycamore62]

Well "IF" you want to go that route all the 116 teams make it xlmaox

124?

I say if you dont like the round of 32 or 64 then watch reruns of MASH that weekend

[PaladinFan]

I bet they wouldn't.

I think there's a logical leap for folks that are willing to give SIU the benefit of a 14 point loss against NDSU, but not Furman for a 7 point loss at ranked Virginia Tech.

Furman also lost to Georgia State by 5, which beat Arkansas State by two touchdowns, which beat SIU by two touchdowns.

[Bisonator]

They should have schedule a D2 instead of Arkansas State. The committee obviously doesn't penalize teams for beating lower division opponents.

[WrenFGun]

The thing with EWU is I look at their schedule, who they beat and who they lost to, and I just didn't see the backing for those on paper numbers. They had one pretty good win against UND but they had a brutal loss to Idaho. That loss to Jacksonville St didn't look very good by year's end either.

Yeah, but like, isn't the counter argument is that SRS is completely worthless if you're going to pick that many teams behind them? I'm not saying a 6 DI win EWU should be in the FCS playoffs, but there was no consistency between last year, when the committee seemed to have absolutely no reservation about 5 losses or 6 DI wins to this year when not having 7 DI wins and/or having 5 losses appears to have been an eliminating factor.

[PaladinFan]

They should have schedule a D2 instead of Arkansas State. The committee obviously doesn't penalize teams for beating lower division opponents.

Well, they do, sort of.

Kennesaw had 10 wins and was a bubble team with an FBS loss and a loss to another playoff team. Without looking at their schedule, 10 wins and one FCS loss shouldn't be anywhere near the bubble.

While Kennesaw's schedule was completely unimpressive, at the same time, they walked a tightrope all season. Had they lost to anyone but Monmouth, they'd have been out.

Sometimes lower division games are unavoidable. Furman, for instance, was given a week 13 bye week by the SoCon and couldn't schedule any D2 teams given their playoff schedule. Point, an NAIA, was literally one of maybe two teams in the country they could have played that week. Furman shouldn't be docked for a scheduling quirk largely out of their control, especially considering it had been over 10 years since they last played a non-D1 opponent.

[lionsrking2]

I think there's a logical leap for folks that are willing to give SIU the benefit of a 14 point loss against NDSU, but not Furman for a 7 point loss at ranked Virginia Tech.

Furman also lost to Georgia State by 5, which beat Arkansas State by two touchdowns, which beat SIU by two touchdowns.

Bottom line is SIU had no signature wins and were rolled double digits by every playoff team on their schedule, including OVC SEMO. Yeah, they were competitive with NDSU but so was Missouri State. Against the four playoff teams, SIU averaged 12.5 points per game. That's not a playoff resume.

[Bisonator]

Bottom line is SIU had no signature wins and were rolled double digits by every playoff team on their schedule, including OVC SEMO. Yeah, they were competitive with NDSU but so was Missouri State. Against the four playoff teams, SIU averaged 12.5 points per game. That's not a playoff resume.
Furman lossed by 17 against the only PO team on their schedule. They beat an NAIA team for one of their 8 wins. Is that a playoff resume?

[Reign of Terrier]

Furman lossed by 17 against the only PO team on their schedule. They beat an NAIA team for one of their 8 wins. Is that a playoff resume?

Yeah, but Furman only had a shot at one playoff team. SIU had a shot at 4 and got a goose egg, by similar margins.

[PaladinFan]

Furman lossed by 17 against the only PO team on their schedule. They beat an NAIA team for one of their 8 wins. Is that a playoff resume?

Clearly, it is.

Furman can't control how good or bad the other SoCon's teams were. The Paladins steamrolled a lot of their conference schedule, won 7 D1 games against a top 50 SOS, and played two bowl-bound FBS teams to one score. The committee went on the record in stating that they clearly valued those losses, whether the pundits on here did or not.

The NAIA win doesn't matter. Furman had virtually no control over who was available to play the very last week of the season. They hardly ever schedule non-D1 games (as in not since 2008).

I also think it relevant that Furman didn't have a "bad" loss. Furman lost two FCS games, both were competitive physical matchups against rivals that really weren't decided until late in the game. A lot of FCS teams (including seeds and other playoff teams) have really ugly losses on their resumes either by blowouts or just losses to bad teams. Furman didn't.

[uni88]

I think there's a logical leap for folks that are willing to give SIU the benefit of a 14 point loss against NDSU, but not Furman for a 7 point loss at ranked Virginia Tech.

Furman also lost to Georgia State by 5, which beat Arkansas State by two touchdowns, which beat SIU by two touchdowns.

That's a rabbit hole - SIUc beat Youngstown who beat Samford who beat Wofford who beat Furman so SIUc should be in over Furman (or Wofford)?

The last 4 in or the first 4 out are somewhat interchangeable and who belongs and who doesn't is subjective. There is no definitive argument for one over another.

[ysubigred]

124?

I say if you dont like the round of 32 or 64 then watch reruns of MASH that weekend[emoji106]better than watching the blind center play Jerry's Kid's once you get past 16 [emoji57]

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Professor Chaos]

Yeah, but like, isn't the counter argument is that SRS is completely worthless if you're going to pick that many teams behind them? I'm not saying a 6 DI win EWU should be in the FCS playoffs, but there was no consistency between last year, when the committee seemed to have absolutely no reservation about 5 losses or 6 DI wins to this year when not having 7 DI wins and/or having 5 losses appears to have been an eliminating factor.
I think (or maybe hope is the better word) that the SRS is completely worthless on it's own. I didn't hear it mentioned in any interviews this year with selection committee members but I thought in previous years I heard it mentioned that the SRS is only used to quantify SOS and therefore quality wins and losses. Of course I'm pretty sure Seitz said on his selection show interview that UND had a high SRS rating when he was talking about how they got in which made me cringe to hear.

Also, I wouldn't agree that the committee had no reservations about 5 losses last year. UNI was the only 5 loss team to make the field. To date no team outside of the MVFC has made the field with 5 losses. There will be a first time for that at some point but this committee may have broken rank from previous committees even moreso had they included EWU or UNH in the field.

[PaladinFan]

That's a rabbit hole - SIUc beat Youngstown who beat Samford who beat Wofford who beat Furman so SIUc should be in over Furman (or Wofford)?

The last 4 in or the first 4 out are somewhat interchangeable and who belongs and who doesn't is subjective. There is no definitive argument for one over another.

I'm in complete agreement with that.

The last few teams always have positives and negatives to their resume. Furman was ranked 9th and got to play Wofford. A win there and Furman would almost assuredly have a seed. A loss nearly cost them a playoff spot.

Gotta win your games. If you don't, you leave it to someone else. Someone always gets screwed.

[Bisonator]

Clearly, it is.

Furman can't control how good or bad the other SoCon's teams were. The Paladins steamrolled a lot of their conference schedule, won 7 D1 games against a top 50 SOS, and played two bowl-bound FBS teams to one score. The committee went on the record in stating that they clearly valued those losses, whether the pundits on here did or not.

The NAIA win doesn't matter. Furman had virtually no control over who was available to play the very last week of the season. They hardly ever schedule non-D1 games (as in not since 2008).

I also think it relevant that Furman didn't have a "bad" loss. Furman lost two FCS games, both were competitive physical matchups against rivals that really weren't decided until late in the game. A lot of FCS teams (including seeds and other playoff teams) have really ugly losses on their resumes either by blowouts or just losses to bad teams. Furman didn't.
Same can be said for SIU. They lossed at #17 SEMO, at FBS Arkansas State, at SDSU and at home to ISUr when both were healthy and to the #1 team in the country. They are being penalized for losing to 4 PO teams while Furman is being rewarded for playing an NAIA team and only losing to 1 PO team because that's all they played!

[PaladinFan]

Same can be said for SIU. They lossed at #17 SEMO, at FBS Arkansas State, at SDSU and at home to ISUr when both were healthy and to the #1 team in the country. They are being penalized for losing to 4 PO teams while Furman is being rewarded for playing an NAIA team and only losing to 1 PO team because that's all they played!

Again, Furman isn't being rewarded for playing an NAIA school. It's a non-factor.

[Catbooster]

go to 32. More games are more better
If they went to 32 teams, this argument would just shift to a different group of teams. When we went from 16 teams to 20, the arguments continued. Now we're at 24 and you can see how much that helped with the arguments over who should be in or out.

If you would prefer 32 teams (16 games on Thanksgiving weekend and no byes), you're certainly entitled to that opinion. But don't think it would help avoid having teams upset at not being picked or arguing that team A should have been in over team B because it wouldn't. It's an imperfect system and there will always be arguments over the choices. But it's probably as good of a system as anyone's been able to come up with.

Personally, I like 24 teams. There will always be teams/fans who are disappointed that they didn't make the playoffs, but I don't think we're missing a potential dark horse that could win the championship at this number. And it's still exclusive enough that it's an accomplishment.

And I think it's a terrible suggestion to drop the auto-bids.

[Tazman2664]

Well, some of the comments on here are funny to me. Like,

Telling teams to play soft non-conference schedules and pile up the wins instead of focusing on quality opponents - Maybe they are saying, get better. If someone is out because they had 1 less win, then get better and get that win not play a weaker schedule. A weaker schedule means you are weak, I would not consider such a weak team for a playoff spot.

UNH is on the cusp, why isn't EWU? They had a win over a playoff team and finish tied in 2nd in the Big Sky - um, no the Big Sky had 4 teams tied for 1st so at best EWU was tied for 5th. And they said EWU was in the first 4 out group so they were considered.

I'm starting to think that Division 2 playoff format with 28 teams might be the way to go - personally I think 16 teams is too much. Looking at this years brackets, there are only 6 teams that have a chance and even at that, up to 4 teams chances could be very slim. I would go with 8 teams and that be the best 8 teams. Talk about people wanting to schedule tougher games, they would have to. If it ends with NDSU versus JMU, all the other playoff games could go away.

If you win your conf, you deserve a shot - at what? Holy Cross won their conference and they are the only team in that conference with a winning record. So what does winning a conference entitle you too? If Monmouth crushes them the story will be told. Thus, HC best hope they play a respectable game otherwise conference championships will mean nothing when it comes to automatic bids.

That's not a playoff resume - what is? Does Austin Peay's record do anything for you? How about San Diego's record? Just because they won games doesn't mean they are any good, good enough to win a championship. They got into the playoffs because they selected 24 teams.

Debate all you want about who made it and should not have or who didn't make but should have, the fact is, some teams make the playoffs because they select 24 teams and not 16, or 8 or 4. The argument for more teams just weakens the whole playoffs, doesn't make it better. Making the playoffs does not drive more interest. Programs that produce year in and out produces interest and that ends if they don't eventually win a national championship.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think there is something to be said for avoiding multiple FBS games on your schedule. Losing those games doesn't hurt you directly but it does hurt indirectly because it takes away a reasonable shot at an extra D1 win you could've gotten by scheduling another FCS team. Austin Peay had the same argument in 2017 when they scheduled 3 FBS games, lost all of them, went 8-4 (8-1 vs FCS) and were left out.

I also see the argument the committee made when they said that SIU played 4 playoff teams and lost to them all. If they can't beat playoff caliber teams in the regular season is there any reason to think they'd be able to do it in the postseason?

I also think the committee (correctly) valued the win over UMass about as low as you can for an FBS win. I don't think UMass would even be a FCS playoff team if they played a full FCS schedule this year.

Yep, agree with all of that. I said a day or two ago that they seem to let one FBS not matter but if you do two you are putting yourself in jeopardy. It's always been a problem along with the D2 thing but both of those formerly hard edges have been worn off a bit the last few years.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

NO WAY! Go back to 16 and pick the best 16 based on scheduling strength etc.. No auto bids for conference champs!

Oh horse ****. Every qualifying conference gets one seat at the table. I don't think expanding is good but your idea is far worse.

It's an NCAA championship. The conferences get their spot.

[ysubigred]

Oh horse ****. Every qualifying conference gets one seat at the table. I don't think expanding is good but your idea is far worse.

It's an NCAA championship. The conferences get their spot.

Ummm, NO! Some of the conference champ spots are a waste of a spot taken away from a better team. Hey how about realigning the conferences and mix it up?

[BisonBacker]

https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2019-southern-illinois-fcs-playoff-snub-nick-hill-ajaj

Would SIU to be in if they avoid a second FBS for a lower level D1 team? What case do UND/ SELA/ KSU have over SIU?

Absofrickenlutly NONE! SIU got jobbed.

[lionsrking2]

Furman lossed by 17 against the only PO team on their schedule. They beat an NAIA team for one of their 8 wins. Is that a playoff resume?

Not saying it is but no worse than SIU's.

[Cocky]

I think there's two things worth being justifiably upset about if you're an FCS fan:

1. Southern Illinois goes toe-to-toe with the best team in the country, beats an FBS team, gets to 7 DI wins, plays in the toughest conference in FCS and gets left out of the playoffs in favor of a team that lost to the only playoff team they played, played two non-counters, and beat a mediocre MVFC team by 11. Southern Illinois beat that same team by 23! The committee is sending the wrong message with their selections in general, telling teams to play soft non-conference schedules and pile up the wins instead of focusing on quality opponents. It doesn't even matter how KSU does against Wofford, an 8 D1 team with that resume is a joke and the committee should face serious heat for that.

2. I was obviously advocating for UNH, but I think the other team that should be scratching their head a bit here is Eastern Washington. Kennesaw State appears to have gotten the benefit for being a darling last year, but uh, Eastern Washington's paper numbers are fantastic. I think the D2 game hurts, but if UNH is on the cusp, why isn't EWU? They had a win over a playoff team and finish tied in 2nd in the Big Sky. I'm not saying they should've gotten in, but how the hell is Towson on that list and EWU isn't. I think this is a team that was buried prematurely and deserved a better look. I think the same fate would've met Maine, who with a win over UNH would've closed at 7-5 with 5 straight wins. The committee needs to not bury teams early.

Any team that lost to us doesnt deserve to be in the playoffs. Dont care if it was the first of the year, middle or end.

[WrenFGun]

Absofrickenlutly NONE! SIU got jobbed.

I mean, didn't UND beat Montana State? I don't see how UND was even in the last four in criteria. That's a damn good resume. SELA also beat a ranked and now seeded UCA team by 34 points. KSU though? Zero. None.

[Lorne_Malvo]

I like having the dark horse element. It is what makes things interesting.
A lot of teams have a shot, unlike the "other" playoffs.

[POD Knows]

I mean, didn't UND beat Montana State? I don't see how UND was even in the last four in criteria. That's a damn good resume. SELA also beat a ranked and now seeded UCA team by 34 points. KSU though? Zero. None.UND also beat UC Davis and SHSU two fairly decent teams and played WSU to within 3 at WSU. They are a better team than people think but they are bi-polar as hell and generally pretty bad on the road.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I mean, didn't UND beat Montana State? I don't see how UND was even in the last four in criteria. That's a damn good resume. SELA also beat a ranked and now seeded UCA team by 34 points. KSU though? Zero. None.

The committee chair basically said why KSU got in:

Coaches poll
10 wins ...8 D1
Being highly ranked all year

Now, hopefully Wofford beats them and proves all of us right on thinking they shouldn't have made the bracket.

[Professor Chaos]

I mean, didn't UND beat Montana State? I don't see how UND was even in the last four in criteria. That's a damn good resume. SELA also beat a ranked and now seeded UCA team by 34 points. KSU though? Zero. None.
UND also had the worst loss of any team near the bubble with a 35 point drubbing by 3-9 Idaho St (and one of their other 2 wins was against a D2). They needed Montana St to show like they did the last month to get in. Had UND not laid that egg they would've been in the argument for a seed IMO.

[F'N Hawks]

UND also had the worst loss of any team near the bubble with a 35 point drubbing by 3-9 Idaho St (and one of their other 2 wins was against a D2). They needed Montana St to show like they did the last month to get in. Had UND not laid that egg they would've been in the argument for a seed IMO.

Since excuses have been thrown around lately I will join in: does flying out 6 hours late from Bemidji in a snowstorm and arriving in Pocatello at midnight on Friday night count? They played like they were still asleep on the plane.

[Professor Chaos]

Since excuses have been thrown around lately I will join in: does flying out 6 hours late from Bemidji in a snowstorm and arriving in Pocatello at midnight on Friday night count? They played like they were still asleep on the plane.
It doesn't for me especially when everyone knew that storm was coming.

[Redbird 4th & short]

The committee chair basically said why KSU got in:

Coaches poll
10 wins ...8 D1
Being highly ranked all year

Now, hopefully Wofford beats them and proves all of us right on thinking they shouldn't have made the bracket.

I'm confused ... 2 of those 3 reasons are not even listed under their stated criteria. It's funny how they keep mentioning and later denying they use the Coaches Poll .. the worst subjective poll out there. As for being highly ranked all year ... again, by who ?? I thought they've stated they only use the SRS .. and even then only for SOS.

So confusing !!! I wonder if their confusing explanation explains why people are confused about their confusing criteria. Tends to change depending on the year and the person explaining.

[ElCid]

Since excuses have been thrown around lately I will join in: does flying out 6 hours late from Bemidji in a snowstorm and arriving in Pocatello at midnight on Friday night count? They played like they were still asleep on the plane.

I'm pretty sure that is part of the game. Like having to evacuate to the upstate for a week to stay at a summer camp prior to game day 4 years running. Shyt happens. Bottom line: shouldn't have lost, really shouldn't have been drubbed. Just saying.

[Houndawg]

For SIU, losing all your games against playoffs teams is not good. UMass win is not that impressive.

Win another game in conference or OOC and this is a non issue.

Springboard for next year or back to mediocrity for SIU?

I agree with the committee's decision, but let me add that our schedule was extremely front-loaded and after losing the starting QB our backup's first two starts were against SDSU and IlSU which limited our offense. My only point to make is that we are clearly on a different trajectory than UNI,SDSU, and ILSU, at this point in the season​ and could, not would, beat any of them today. Who else rushed for 200+ yds on the Bison? I have no doubt that had we backed in we would have surprised a lot of people. We're done for now but the future looks bright, imo we're only a QB away from being a solid contender.

[F'N Hawks]

It doesn't for me especially when everyone knew that storm was coming.

OK, chief. You have control over the charter companies? Cause they told UND tough crap on Wednesday. It was closer to being cancelled than being rescheduled.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I agree with the committee's decision, but let me add that our schedule was extremely front-loaded and after losing the starting QB our backup's first two starts were against SDSU and IlSU which limited our offense. My only point to make is that we are clearly on a different trajectory than UNI,SDSU, and ILSU, at this point in the season​ and could, not would, beat any of them today. Who else rushed for 200+ yds on the Bison? I have no doubt that had we backed in we would have surprised a lot of people. We're done for now but the future looks bright, imo we're only a QB away from being a solid contender.
I think the committee did one of their best overal jobs of selecting in a very difficuly year. The top 8 was tough, and the top 24 was tough. I happen to think SIU deserved a bid, but I would be hard pressed to name a single team that CLEARLY did not deserve a bid. So IMO, all the questionable buble decisions surrounding the top 8 and top 24 "bubbles" were truly tough decisions. Last year was a joke in terms of the bubble decisions they made that resulted in unprecedented 6 CAA teams (incl an unprecedented 6-4 tea,) and 3 Southland teams (incl unprecedented two 6-4 teams).

They like to hide behind their claim that conference affiliation is not even a consideration .. to which I say that is rediculously stupid. Most years, 75% of the games played are conference games. How can conference affiliation NOT be a factor when it represents 75% of all games and the sum total of each conference's record is always .500 win %. It has to matter.

But put that aside, and that I think SIU deserved a bid and not thrilled that UNI has to play into SDSU. But this was one of the fairest fields (bids and seeds) the committee has ever assembled. No obvious screw ups. I'm one that happens to thin KSU arguably deserved a bid, though could see an SIU being selected instead, largely because SIU finished much stronger and played a much tougher SOS.

But no obvious screw ups like last year .. so kudos to FCS selection committee ... but you did yourself no favors with your explanation for why KSU got in .... 2 of the 3 reasons you stated are NOT stated criteria.

[UpstateBison]

I'm confused ... 2 of those 3 reasons are not even listed under their stated criteria. It's funny how they keep mentioning and later denying they use the Coaches Poll .. the worst subjective poll out there. As for being highly ranked all year ... again, by who ?? I thought they've stated they only use the SRS .. and even then only for SOS.

So confusing !!! I wonder if their confusing explanation explains why people are confused about their confusing criteria. Tends to change depending on the year and the person explaining.

The regional advisory committee had them highly ranked all year according to committee chairman. I think they have always stated that the coaches poll is a selection criteria.

SIU is a good team but they did not beat a Top 25 team all year.

UNI is the team that got screwed with not getting a seed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The regional advisory committee had them highly ranked all year according to committee chairman. I think they have always stated that the coaches poll is a selection criteria.

SIU is a good team but they did not beat a Top 25 team all year.

UNI is the team that got screwed with not getting a seed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Plus they didn't beat any upper tier Valley team this year. Their 5 game win streak was against the sisters of the poor in the Valley.

One more win and they are in. Maybe next year....or will they fall back into another 3-8 season??

[uni88]

Since excuses have been thrown around lately I will join in: does flying out 6 hours late from Bemidji in a snowstorm and arriving in Pocatello at midnight on Friday night count? They played like they were still asleep on the plane.

UNI wasn't allowed excuses for the 2003 playoff loss to Delaware where if memory serves they left on Friday and spent close to 24 hours in airplanes and airports before arriving in Newark with enough time to bus to the field for the start of the game. So no.

[BisonBacker]

Since excuses have been thrown around lately I will join in: does flying out 6 hours late from Bemidji in a snowstorm and arriving in Pocatello at midnight on Friday night count? They played like they were still asleep on the plane.

Flying out of Bemidji? WTF I thought you had an airport up there in El Forko Grande??? Seriously why the hell are you flying out of Bemidji?

[Professor Chaos]

OK, chief. You have control over the charter companies? Cause they told UND tough crap on Wednesday. It was closer to being cancelled than being rescheduled.
Well then I'd tell your AD to find a better charter company.

[F'N Hawks]

Well then I'd tell your AD to find a better charter company.
If you don't know what you're talking about, don't.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Flying out of Bemidji? WTF I thought you had an airport up there in El Forko Grande??? Seriously why the hell are you flying out of Bemidji?


I think the weather was better over in Bemidji IIRC during that storm that went thru.

[Professor Chaos]

If you don't know what you're talking about, don't.
Ok, you're right. They lost by 35 to a 3-9 team because they were tired.

Btw, UNI flew into Fargo earlier that day with no issues.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Ok, you're right. They lost by 35 to a 3-9 team because they were tired.

Btw, UNI flew into Fargo earlier that day with no issues.


Didn't UNI leave early to get to Fargo earlier to beat the weather? I thought one of the sports guys said that?

UND always has those head scratching losses every year.

[TennBison]

Bottom line is, if you are upset/crying about being left out then you would have barely made it in to begin with and realistically no shot at winning it anyway. The teams own fault and not the committees for them not getting there. If you argue that you played 2 FBS teams or more and lost them all..............then don't schedule that many. They did it for the money and want a loss to them to be counted as a win in the committees eyes as a pass. It is one thing to test your teams ability to pull off a big win and another to play a game for a paycheck to fund your program.

[F'N Hawks]

Ok, you're right. They lost by 35 to a 3-9 team because they were tired.

Btw, UNI flew into Fargo earlier that day with no issues.
That's not the topic. You said find a new charter company. I said you don't know what the F you're talking about, again. Focus.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That's not the topic. You said find a new charter company. I said you don't know what the F you're talking about, again. Focus.


So what......UND sh** the bed in the Idaho State game and they do that every year. UND will have a learning curve coming into the Valley. Be prepared for continued mediocrity.....xnodx

[Professor Chaos]

That's not the topic. You said find a new charter company. I said you don't know what the F you're talking about, again. Focus.
Fine, I'll spell it out for you. I realize they can't to **** in that particular situation since they're tied to that charter company for that week (or maybe longer) but if I was in that AD and I tried to reschedule things to beat the weather so my football team wouldn't so tired they'd lose by 35 to a 3-9 team and the charter company told me to pound sand I'd be firing them as soon as I was contractually able.

[F'N Hawks]

So what......UND sh** the bed in the Idaho State game and they do that every year. UND will have a learning curve coming into the Valley. Be prepared for continued mediocrity.....xnodx

So we've heard. We'll see. After watching teams this year I'm not nearly as worried.

[cx500d]

So what......UND sh** the bed in the Idaho State game and they do that every year. UND will have a learning curve coming into the Valley. Be prepared for continued mediocrity.....xnodx
Hopefully they are renting the long school busses (instead of the short ones they are used to) from the grand forks school district on their trips to the mvfc games.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

So we've heard. We'll see. After watching teams this year I'm not nearly as worried.


UND would fit in with WIU, MSU, Ind State, USD and YSU this year.

Looking at what UND has coming back, I doubt they leave the bottom half of the league.

But you guys have hockey season this year.