Did MSU make a good decision in firing Kramer?

[Hansel]

What do you think?


me- Aye

[BrevardMountaineer03]

What do you think?


me- Aye

Okay, I'm ingnorant of the situation...I know he was fired for some legal alligations against a former player, but please help me out, what went down...(or supposedly went down)

Edit: I found the answer to my question. Thanks....

[BrevardMountaineer03]

Leadership from the coach, I'm sure he knew of things like this that were going on. He needed to step up and suspend, kick off the bad eggs.

[dbackjon]

Unknown - we don't know all the details yet...

[Seawolf97]

I dont think everything has come out on this and maybe thats as it should be.

[rokamortis]

I'm not sure if the problems are directly attributable to the coach - I would tend to say no, but I think the program as a whole was in need of a reboot and this should achieve that.

[ngineer]

As with most matters, the buck stops at the top. If there were problems that the HC should have known about and dealt with, even if he was not directly involved, it's his responsibility. The HC sets the tone for the program as to what is acceptable and the standards.

[Bobcat in NC]

As with most matters, the buck stops at the top. If there were problems that the HC should have known about and dealt with, even if he was not directly involved, it's his responsibility. The HC sets the tone for the program as to what is acceptable and the standards.

While I agree wholeheartedly that Kramer needed to (and did) bear a ton of the responsibility for this debacle, you're right that the buck stops at the top. Simple fact is, though, Kramer isn't the top. Those at the top (AD Fields and President Gamble) need to be held accountable for this also. It sure looks like Fields is trying his damndest to avoid being where that buck stops, and Kramer was thrown under the bus for it.

[McTailGator]

What do you think?


me- Aye

I wish they would have included a "I COULD CARE LESS" button.;)

[mlbowl]

I wish they would have included a "I COULD CARE LESS" button.;)

Did you mean "couldn't care less"???;)

[89Hen]

Unknown - we don't know all the details yet...
Agreed

[Hansel]

Unknown - we don't know all the details yet...
i doubt anything else that comes out now will be "good" for Kramer

[PantherRob82]

I think a little too much has been going on. But it's still a sad situation either way.

[JALMOND]

A good decision, yes, the coach should bear the responsibilities of the players actions (to a certain extent). Maybe a better question would be to put all of us in the equation (If it was our school, would the administration have done the same thing as MSU?). The school had to do something to make it at least look (to the boosters, alumni, and the community) like they view this as something serious. The AD could be the next to go.

[CopperCat]

I wish they would have included a "I COULD CARE LESS" button.;)

McWho St.?

[Kill'em]

Pardon my ignorance but I don't know much about the story, only that some of MSU football players got into some trouble. Until I know more, I can't say either way.

Besides, my house is getting a cleaning right now. xpeacex

[PantherRob82]

McWho St.?

xsmhx xsmhx xrolleyesx

[Mort]

I have another twist on this but it's hypothetical - all other circumstances involved in this matter being the same, would this same decision be creating the attention it is currently getting if MSU's football team had been 2-9 last year instead of being 8-5, hosting and winning a playoff game for the first time in 22 years and bringing MSU back to national prominence in the eyes of many Bobcats fans, alums, boosters, etc.

I think I know the answer to this but I'm just wondering...

[catbob]

Just to make sure everyone has their facts straight:

Only one player was currently playing when he was arrested (Andre Fuller CB). Gatewood appears to have started selling his senior season ('05), but is just now being arrested. By the way, Gatewood just graduated from MSU a week ago, for what its worth.

The rest had already been kicked off the team or had used up their eligibility before have a run-in with the law.

I've seen people say two ex-football players were arrested for murder - incorrect. One, who had been kicked off the football team without ever playing a down, was charged. The other was a basketball player who had suffered the same fate.

While I don't blame Kramer for the actions these kids took, I can't help but think maybe he is a little naive and trusting of kids he recruited. Took some chances, and I believe he had good intentions, but they came back to bite him. I believe there will be plenty more to this story in weeks to come. Just wanted to make sure people knew what they were talking about before they voted.

[McTailGator]

McWho St.?


That's the team that sent the Kitties home in 2002...xeyebrowx

[CopperCat]

That's the team that sent the Kitties home in 2002...xeyebrowx

I must be suffering from a severe case of amnesia......xsmiley_wix

[Hansel]

MSU football: Gamble says many reasons for Kramer firing

Montana State athletic director Peter Fields says he doesn't worry about what people think about his decision late last week to fire Mike Kramer.


Chronicle file photo MSU athletic director Peter Fields said Monday he's received about 25 applications for head football coach. He doesn't have the time. He says his only concern is putting into place the process that will enable MSU to hire its next football coach.

“I'm not going to get into that,” Fields said Monday when asked about how he believes the public perceives him. “It doesn't serve any purpose at this point.”

Fields fired Kramer Friday, a day after the latest in a series of arrests involving current and former MSU football players. The arrest Wednesday of ex-Bobcat Rick Gatewood apparently was the last straw for Fields, who dismissed Kramer after seven seasons.

MSU president Geoff Gamble said Monday that the letters and comments he has received the past three days have been more against than supportive of the firing, but he re-affirmed his support of Field's decision. Fields consulted with Gamble and vice president for student affairs Allen Yarnell on Friday morning before firing Kramer.

“I have been getting a selection of letters, and they're pretty standard,” Gamble said. “Sixty percent are saying: ‘What are you doing?' Forty percent are saying it's a good decision.

“The truth is, everyone likes Mike. But occasionally, you have to step back and say: ‘Is the program going in the direction we want?' I am supportive of Peter's decision and the reasons for it. These are fairly complex reasons. We have this whole suite of criminal activities, but there are academic issues and compliance issues. They all are in the realm of leadership issues.”

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2007/05/22/sports/10msu.txt

[CopperCat]

MSU football: Gamble says many reasons for Kramer firing

Montana State athletic director Peter Fields says he doesn't worry about what people think about his decision late last week to fire Mike Kramer.


Chronicle file photo MSU athletic director Peter Fields said Monday he's received about 25 applications for head football coach. He doesn't have the time. He says his only concern is putting into place the process that will enable MSU to hire its next football coach.

“I'm not going to get into that,” Fields said Monday when asked about how he believes the public perceives him. “It doesn't serve any purpose at this point.”

Fields fired Kramer Friday, a day after the latest in a series of arrests involving current and former MSU football players. The arrest Wednesday of ex-Bobcat Rick Gatewood apparently was the last straw for Fields, who dismissed Kramer after seven seasons.

MSU president Geoff Gamble said Monday that the letters and comments he has received the past three days have been more against than supportive of the firing, but he re-affirmed his support of Field's decision. Fields consulted with Gamble and vice president for student affairs Allen Yarnell on Friday morning before firing Kramer.

“I have been getting a selection of letters, and they're pretty standard,” Gamble said. “Sixty percent are saying: ‘What are you doing?' Forty percent are saying it's a good decision.

“The truth is, everyone likes Mike. But occasionally, you have to step back and say: ‘Is the program going in the direction we want?' I am supportive of Peter's decision and the reasons for it. These are fairly complex reasons. We have this whole suite of criminal activities, but there are academic issues and compliance issues. They all are in the realm of leadership issues.”

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2007/05/22/sports/10msu.txt

Geoff Gamble can blow all the crap out his a$$. He's in the same boat as Fields is in my mind. Neither of them gave a rip about the football program, and it shows. Everything that Kramer did is a result of his labors. Fields cites leadership as the problem at MSU, and he is absolutely right. Both Gamble and Fields could have been much more proactive in this whole mess, but instead they let the program flounder and eventually all these players started getting arressted. If I were the athletic director, I would have been talking to Kramer on a daily basis making sure that things were getting better, and that a plan was in place to ensure that things would get better. The failures of the program don't reflect just on Kramer. They reflect directly on Fields, and also Gamble in the end. The buck stops at the top. And Kramer certainly isn't the top.

[Ivytalk]

Now that Kramer's out, maybe Costanza will get the job!:p

[Eyes of Old Main]

I don't know the full story, but based off what I have heard, I think it was justified. Even if things are starting to go down that road, a school needs to make a statement to keep thier program from becoming the FCS equivalent of Miami (FL).

[CopperCat]

Now that Kramer's out, maybe Costanza will get the job!:p

Who is Costanza?xeyebrowx

[CopperCat]

I don't know the full story, but based off what I have heard, I think it was justified. Even if things are starting to go down that road, a school needs to make a statement to keep thier program from becoming the FCS equivalent of Miami (FL).

But why fire JUST the head coach? Why not the AD who did nothing to stop the problem? Why not the current coaching staff who was part of Kramer's recruiting trail? There is little rhyme or reason to this whole mess. But I still don't think Kramer should have been fired, regardless of rhyme or reason. Our university is run by a bunch of money thirsty idiotic bureaucratic kiss-a$$e$.xnonono2x

[laxVik]

But why fire JUST the head coach? Why not the AD who did nothing to stop the problem? Why not the current coaching staff who was part of Kramer's recruiting trail? There is little rhyme or reason to this whole mess. But I still don't think Kramer should have been fired, regardless of rhyme or reason. Our university is run by a bunch of money thirsty idiotic bureaucratic kiss-a$$e$.xnonono2xThe AD didn't recruit the players. Kramer did.

[CopperCat]

The AD didn't recruit the players. Kramer did.

Ummmm......that doesnt matter. The AD is the LEADER of the athletic department. When something is going well, he nurtures it. Did Fields nurture the football program when it was doing well? Nope. And more importantly, did he step in and take action when the first of these arrests were made? Nope. Lax, leaders are people who in times of great crisis step in and help out the people under them. Leaders should display a high level of commitment to their mission. I don't know about you, but Fields is not a good example of a leader.

[Ivytalk]

Who is Costanza?xeyebrowx

George Costanza from Seinfeld.xrolleyesx "Kramer" is the Michael Richards character.

You really didn't know this??

[CopperCat]

George Costanza from Seinfeld.xrolleyesx "Kramer" is the Michael Richards character.

You really didn't know this??

No, because I loathe Seinfeld. It is one of the most annoying shows on TV, but that's just my opinion. Most of what I watch is on ESPN.

Please hire Coach Van Diest, Please hire Coach Van Diest, Please hire Coach Van Diest, Please hire Coach Van Diest, Please hire Coach Van Diest, Please hire Coach Van Diest, Please hire Coach Van Diest, Please hire Coach Van Diest, Please hire Coach Van Diest, Please hire Coach Van Diest.........xprayx xprayx xprayx

[laxVik]

Ummmm......that doesnt matter. The AD is the LEADER of the athletic department. When something is going well, he nurtures it. Did Fields nurture the football program when it was doing well? Nope. And more importantly, did he step in and take action when the first of these arrests were made? Nope. Lax, leaders are people who in times of great crisis step in and help out the people under them. Leaders should display a high level of commitment to their mission. I don't know about you, but Fields is not a good example of a leader.I guess I just don't understand how the coach can't be fired under the circumstances of 6 arrests, 3 lost schollies due to academics and a ex-assistant selling meth in less than 3 years.

[Hansel]

Ummmm......that doesnt matter. The AD is the LEADER of the athletic department. When something is going well, he nurtures it. Did Fields nurture the football program when it was doing well? Nope. And more importantly, did he step in and take action when the first of these arrests were made? Nope. Lax, leaders are people who in times of great crisis step in and help out the people under them. Leaders should display a high level of commitment to their mission. I don't know about you, but Fields is not a good example of a leader.

Why not just go after the Governor xrolleyesx

Other than the FB team- what other sports at MSU are having major criminal/academic problems

[CopperCat]

Why not just go after the Governor xrolleyesx

Other than the FB team- what other sports at MSU are having major criminal/academic problems

Maybe we should go after the governor. He's about as worthless as our AD anyway. And if that is the way you feel, then your idea of accountability and leadership are pretty weak.

In case you have forgotten, Branden Miller was on the basketball team, one of the guys who was involved in the murder case. Its not specific to the football team.

[CopperCat]

I guess I just don't understand how the coach can't be fired under the circumstances of 6 arrests, 3 lost schollies due to academics and a ex-assistant selling meth in less than 3 years.

This has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about in the post you quoted. I was talking about the AD, not the coach.

[AZGrizFan]

George Costanza from Seinfeld.xrolleyesx "Kramer" is the Michael Richards character.

You really didn't know this??

No electricity in Bozeman. xreadx xreadx

[Hansel]

Maybe we should go after the governor. He's about as worthless as our AD anyway. And if that is the way you feel, then your idea of accountability and leadership are pretty weak.

In case you have forgotten, Branden Miller was on the basketball team, one of the guys who was involved in the murder case. Its not specific to the football team.

and his coach is no longer with MSU

Academic Progress Report (APR) data for MSU sports - All but one seem to be doing OK- guess which one isn't

04-05

Track 954
Tennis 920+
WBB 959
WCC 946
W Golf 933
WSkiiing 978
Volleyball 979
MBB 940
MCC 971
Football 872
M Skiing 923+

05-06

MBB 890
MCC 962
Football 868
M Skiiing 940
M Tennis 944
M Track 955
WBB 965
WCC 962
W Golf 958
W Skiing 978
W Tennis 946
W Track 945

[Hansel]

As an FYI I do live in Bozeman and follow the team and hope they do well, I just hope the program is "bigger" than Mike Kramer, and I think they could do just as well or better with a different coach