Week 12 Bracketology

[Gangtackle11]

Here is the collegesportsmadness.com Week 12 bracket:

https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/fcs-football/bracketology

nobowls.com:

http://www.nobowls.com/

[Longhorn]

That's a BS bracket if it unfolds that way. Placing both SDSU and Montana on JMU's side of the bracket isn't right.

[katss07]

That's a BS bracket if it unfolds that way. Placing both SDSU and Montana on JMU's side of the bracket isn't right.
Why? I’m sure both SDSU and Montana would love to avoid Fargo. I know they would. Montana at 3 is very realistic and highly possible...as is seeing SDSU at 6 or 7.

I don’t see it as BS at all.

[aceinthehole]

Can't say I like the idea of CCSU/Monmouth and Albany/Villanvoa. Much rather see the CAA at-large teams get split up and play out of conference: CCSU-Albany and Monmouth-Villanova works better.

[Houndawg]

That's a BS bracket if it unfolds that way. Placing both SDSU and Montana on JMU's side of the bracket isn't right.

No ****. SIU's path to the finals includes three of the top four MVFC teams and Weber State. Just happy to be here.

[Gangtackle11]

Can't say I like the idea of CCSU/Monmouth and Albany/Villanvoa. Much rather see the CAA at-large teams get split up and play out of conference: CCSU-Albany and Monmouth-Villanova works better.

Agree. Can’t see a CAA matchup of the 2nd & 3rd teams in the conference when u have CCSU, Holy Cross, Monmouth, and probably Towson to work with in this part of the country. xpeacex

[RootinFerDukes]

Why? I’m sure both SDSU and Montana would love to avoid Fargo. I know they would. Montana at 3 is very realistic and highly possible...as is seeing SDSU at 6 or 7.

I don’t see it as BS at all.

Yeah. That's exactly how the current rankings will probably work out. SDSU at 7 is probably fair. Maybe that's their ceiling right now. Montana is a clear #3.

I would argue that Weber should be 5. Sac State 4. Ill State should be 6 and be on JMU's half of the bracket. #8 could be SDSU, but I'd say it's more either UNI or Montana State. Wofford is a stretch for an 8 right now.

[semobison]

I like it! A fresh CAA the first game and no Valley teams until at least the semi's.

[RootinFerDukes]

Can't say I like the idea of CCSU/Monmouth and Albany/Villanvoa. Much rather see the CAA at-large teams get split up and play out of conference: CCSU-Albany and Monmouth-Villanova works better.

Yes, that was the one thing I had an issue with for the first round match ups. Those NE games aren't regional enough. Albany/Monmouth can't rematch since they played this season. Then Monmouth/VU and Albany/CCSU are far more regional than the other way around.

[uni88]

No ****. SIU's path to the finals includes three of the top four MVFC teams and Weber State. Just happy to be here.

Does the committee match UNI and SIU up in the 1st round when it isn't a bus trip because they know the 2nd round game will be a bus trip?

The map is a nice touch.

[Longhorn]

I'm sure they would. But I think Montana can take NDSU.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree. Pitting Albany and Nova together in the first round is just wrong.

[RootinFerDukes]

It's not completely out of the question, since the committee forced the CAA #2 and #3 to meet in the first round last year. JMU and UD.

[Dane96]

Can't say I like the idea of CCSU/Monmouth and Albany/Villanvoa. Much rather see the CAA at-large teams get split up and play out of conference: CCSU-Albany and Monmouth-Villanova works better.

if these four teams are all in, guaranteed that your scenario plays out. It makes the most sense travel wise and story wise. Ryan McCarhy coming home so to speak. Central/South Jersey vs Philly area. Makes all too much sense.

[Professor Chaos]

Here's how I see if if the playoffs started next week (autobid is the first team listed).

MVFC (5): North Dakota St, South Dakota St, Illinois St, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois
Big Sky (4): Montana, Weber St, Sacramento St, Montana St
CAA (4): James Madison, Villanova, Albany, Towson
Southland (2): Southeastern Louisiana, Central Arkansas
SOCON (2): Wofford, Furman
OVC (2): Austin Peay, Southeast Missouri St
Big South (1): Monmouth
Independent (1): UND
NEC (1): Central Connecticut Sta
Pioneer (1): San Diego
Patriot (1): Holy Cross

Last 4 in: Southern Illinois, Furman, Albany, Towson
First 4 out: Kennesaw St, Nicholls, South Carolina St, UT Martin


Wofford at North Dakota @ #1 North Dakota St
Southeast Missouri St at Central Arkansas @ #8 Northern Iowa
Furman at Southeastern Louisiana @ #5 Sacramento St
San Diego at Montana St at #4 Weber St
Central Connecticut St at Villanova @ #3 Montana
Holy Cross at Albany @ #6 South Dakota St
Austin Peay at Southern Illinois @ #7 Illinois St
Monmouth at Towson @ #2 James Madison

[jmu007]

Meh, I don’t think it really matters how they pair the bracket this year. Barring something unexpected, like an injury, haven’t seen anything to make me think it won’t be NDSU vs JMU part 3 regardless.

But that’s why they play the games. I’m just happy the games will start having little more weight again finally.

[Gangtackle11]

http://www.nobowls.com/

[JacksFan40]

That's a BS bracket if it unfolds that way. Placing both SDSU and Montana on JMU's side of the bracket isn't right.
I’d say it’s pretty good. Anything that keeps us away from Fargo works for me.

[RootinFerDukes]

if these four teams are all in, guaranteed that your scenario plays out. It makes the most sense travel wise and story wise. Ryan McCarhy coming home so to speak. Central/South Jersey vs Philly area. Makes all too much sense.

Since it makes too much sense, that's why the committee will do the exact opposite of what should be done.

[BEAR]

http://www.nobowls.com/

UCA doesn't reside in Bonway. It's Conway. xlolx

[ming01]

Does the committee match UNI and SIU up in the 1st round when it isn't a bus trip because they know the 2nd round game will be a bus trip?

The map is a nice touch.

They match up conference opponents that didnt play each other.

[uni88]

They match up conference opponents that didnt play each other.I know that. They also try and maximize bus trips. UNI SIU is not a bus trip. if UNI makes it their game will likely require a flight but SIU if they make it will likely have some possible bus trips.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[ming01]

This is the scenario of MSU beating Montana. 4 Big Sky teams seeded, but feel Montanas resume too good to not seed. Weber moves back to #3 with only 1 FCS loss and an OOC win over UNI. I also have Albany losing at SBU. Citadel gets in with win over Wofford.

Citadel at UND vs. 1. NDSU
SEMO at Illinois St vs. 8 Montana
San Diego at SELA vs. 4 Sac State
Austin Peay at Furman vs 5. SDSU

Central Arkansas at Wofford vs. 3. Weber St
CCSU at Holy Cross vs. 6 Villanova
SIU at Northern Iowa vs. 7 Montana St
Monmouth at Towson vs. 2 JMU

[FargoBison]

My take....

Autobids(10):
Big Sky: Weber State
Big South: Monmouth
CAA: JMU
MVFC: NDSU
NEC: CCSU
OVC: Austin Peay
Patriot: Holy Cross
PFL: USD
SoCon: Wofford
SLC: SELA


At-Large(14): Montana, Sac State, Illinois State, SDSU, Villanova, UCA, UNI, SEMO, Towson, Albany, Furman, UND, Montana State, SIU


The Field
Holy Cross at Albany vs 1. NDSU
SELA at Furman vs 8. Wofford


USD at Montana State vs 4. Weber State
SEMO at UNI vs 5. ISUR


Austin Peay at SIU vs 3. Montana
UND at UCA vs 6. SDSU


CCSU at Villanova vs 7. Sac State
Monmouth at Towson vs 2. JMU


Last Team In: SIU
Last Team Out: Kennesaw State
Next Out: Nichols, SCSU, NCAT, UTM, Maine, EWU, The Citadel

[CappinHard]

Why? I’m sure both SDSU and Montana would love to avoid Fargo. I know they would. Montana at 3 is very realistic and highly possible...as is seeing SDSU at 6 or 7.

I don’t see it as BS at all.

I'm not so sure we would want to avoid Fargo tbh. 1. You'll likely have to beat them at some point, and a game against them in Frisco would be just as much of a home game for them, even more so because most of them have been there before. 2. We're familiar with Fargo, we've never been to Frisco. 3. I would rather beat NDSU before Frisco so there will be plenty of tickets and hotels available. xdrunkyx

[CappinHard]

Meh, I don’t think it really matters how they pair the bracket this year. Barring something unexpected, like an injury, haven’t seen anything to make me think it won’t be NDSU vs JMU part 3 regardless.

But that’s why they play the games. I’m just happy the games will start having little more weight again finally.

You haven't seen anything, huh? Not JMU having to go to OT to beat a Stony Brook team that won't make the playoffs? SDSU being tied with NDSU late in the 4th quarter after the starting QB went out in the first. Nothing like that makes you think there's a chance it won't be NDSU vs JMU?

[CrunchGriz]

My take....

Autobids(10):
Big Sky: Weber State
Big South: Monmouth
CAA: JMU
MVFC: NDSU
NEC: CCSU
OVC: Austin Peay
Patriot: Holy Cross
PFL: USD
SoCon: Wofford
SLC: SELA


At-Large(14): Montana, Sac State, Illinois State, SDSU, Villanova, UCA, UNI, SEMO, Towson, Albany, Furman, UND, Montana State, SIU


The Field
Holy Cross at Albany vs 1. NDSU
SELA at Furman vs 8. Wofford


USD at Montana State vs 4. Weber State
SEMO at UNI vs 5. ISUR


Austin Peay at SIU vs 3. Montana
UND at UCA vs 6. SDSU


CCSU at Villanova vs 7. Sac State
Monmouth at Towson vs 2. JMU


Last Team In: SIU
Last Team Out: Kennesaw State
Next Out: Nichols, SCSU, NCAT, UTM, Maine, EWU, The Citadel

Just one small niggle with this rundown. If Montana becomes the number three seed, that would mean that they won the MSU game. If they win that game, Montana will be the Big Sky auto bid, not Weber State, based on Big Sky rules (tie-breakers: first head to head, on which the three teams with the same record all went one and one, then common nonconference opponents, of which there are none, and then the Sagarin ratings, on which Montana is most highly rated by quite a bit). Not that it affects the actual bracket you laid out, which looks like a decent guess.

[Bison56]

You haven't seen anything, huh? Not JMU having to go to OT to beat a Stony Brook team that won't make the playoffs? SDSU being tied with NDSU late in the 4th quarter after the starting QB went out in the first. Nothing like that makes you think there's a chance it won't be NDSU vs JMU?

How dare you, JMU is a dynasty.

[TheKingpin28]

How dare you, JMU is a dynasty.

Well yeah, between them and NDSU, they have won the last 8 national titles. xcoffeex

[MSUBobcat]

Just one small niggle with this rundown. If Montana becomes the number three seed, that would mean that they won the MSU game. If they win that game, Montana will be the Big Sky auto bid, not Weber State, based on Big Sky rules (tie-breakers: first head to head, on which the three teams with the same record all went one and one, then common nonconference opponents, of which there are none, and then the Sagarin ratings, on which Montana is most highly rated by quite a bit). Not that it affects the actual bracket you laid out, which looks like a decent guess.

I don't think this isn't quite accurate, unless it's been changed in the last few years. Head to head is the first tiebreaker (all went 1-1 as you said) but the 2nd tiebreaker is common CONFERENCE opponents. Obviously for this year, since the only conference losses among the 3 are all to others in the group, they would all be winners against any common conference opponents (only Idaho qualifies from my quick scan of their schedules), but it would be possible in a future season for this to end up the tiebreaker, given the unbalanced schedules of the Big Sky. The unbalanced schedule also makes it possible for a co-champ to get the auto-bid even if they laid an egg and lost to the last place team if the other co-champ didn't play that team.

This minor clarification doesn't change that you are correct that UM wins the auto-bid with a win Saturday. Won't matter, as we're coming for your seed...xcoffeex

[Professor Chaos]

I don't think this isn't quite accurate, unless it's been changed in the last few years. Head to head is the first tiebreaker (all went 1-1 as you said) but the 2nd tiebreaker is common CONFERENCE opponents. Obviously for this year, since the only conference losses among the 3 are all to others in the group, they would all be winners against any common conference opponents (only Idaho qualifies from my quick scan of their schedules), but it would be possible in a future season for this to end up the tiebreaker, given the unbalanced schedules of the Big Sky. The unbalanced schedule also makes it possible for a co-champ to get the auto-bid even if they laid an egg and lost to the last place team if the other co-champ didn't play that team.

This minor clarification doesn't change that you are correct that UM wins the auto-bid with a win Saturday. Won't matter, as we're coming for your seed...xcoffeex
That sounds kind of dirty.... xlolx

<insert Michael Scott meme>

[jmu007]

You haven't seen anything, huh? Not JMU having to go to OT to beat a Stony Brook team that won't make the playoffs? SDSU being tied with NDSU late in the 4th quarter after the starting QB went out in the first. Nothing like that makes you think there's a chance it won't be NDSU vs JMU?

well, I guess I did, but then your boy got hurt. So nope.

[mvfcfan]

SIU/UNI vs ILST is a bunch of nonsense. I get tired of the committee trying to eliminate MVFC schools. Maybe the other conferences should step up if they want success in the playoffs.

[CappinHard]

well, I guess I did, but then your boy got hurt. So nope.

Good thing Stony Brook didn't make the playoffs I guess. Clearly they're the only team that would have a chance to beat JMU outside of NDSU. xconfusedx

[Bison56]

Good thing Stony Brook didn't make the playoffs I guess. Clearly they're the only team that would have a chance to beat JMU outside of NDSU. xconfusedx

Or Colgate.xcoffeex

[CappinHard]

Or Colgate.xcoffeex

Great point. Plus Liberty isn't around anymore... JMU clearly has an easy path straight to Frisco now.

[katss07]

Isn’t it all but a sure thing that NCAT is going to the Celebration Bowl? Why do I keep seeing them in playoff predictions?

[Professor]

Isn’t it all but a sure thing that NCAT is going to the Celebration Bowl? Why do I keep seeing them in playoff predictions?

Nope we have to beat NCCU on Saturday. It's going to happen. They are doing it to discount the season of SCSU who holds a win over the SoCon Champ Wofford

[mvfcfan]

The MEAC is trash. The Pioneer League has more playoff wins than the MEAC. Even ISU has more wins in the playoffs than the MEAC. They should never get an at-large bid especially since their best team will never be in the playoffs.

For those of you wondering the MEAC is something like 0-19 all time in the playoffs.

[Reign of Terrier]

The MEAC is trash. The Pioneer League has more playoff wins than the MEAC. Even ISU has more wins in the playoffs than the MEAC. They should never get an at-large bid especially since their best team will never be in the playoffs.

For those of you wondering the MEAC is something like 0-19 all time in the playoffs.

Ya know, if you're going to come out against an entire conference in this way you should actually get your facts right. I think the skepticism is warranted, but this over the top and wrong on all factual claims.

Current members of the MEAC are 8-27 all-time in the FCS playoffs.

They haven't won a playoff game in about 20 years but the OVC had a similar streak until Jacksonville State (and team like Tennessee State, Eastern Illinois, and SEMO) broke it in the last 5 years.

The logic of conventional wisdom is vulnerable to disruption at this level.

[mvfcfan]

What's wrong about it?

Edit: So 0-19 the last 20 years? They're still garbage. Sorry about the 6 wins from 30 years ago I forgot about.

If they want a playoff bid they can send their 2nd place team to the Celebration Bowl. Otherwise see you in August.

As far as the OVC is concerned they didn't give up and decide to start their own bowl game because of how bad they were.

[Reign of Terrier]

What's wrong about it?

The MEAC has won 8 playoff games and a national title. You are factually wrong about your claim about the pioneer, ISU, and their record.

Florida A&M has more playoff wins and a better winning percentage than most FCS teams.

[Reign of Terrier]

What's wrong about it?

Edit: So 0-19 the last 20 years? They're still garbage. Sorry about the 6 wins from 30 years ago I forgot about.

In 2012, the OVC hadn't won a playoff game since like 1994. Since then, 4 teams have won a playoff game. Granted, some of them were matchups that were favorable, but so is the playoffs in general. the MEAC having to play the App States and Georgia Southerns of the world didn't help.

[mvfcfan]

If their conference doesn't want to send it's best team to the playoffs they shouldn't get a bid. If they want to act like an actual FCS conference then by all means I'm fine with giving them chances.

[Reign of Terrier]

If their conference doesn't want to send it's best team to the playoffs they shouldn't get a bid. If they want to act like an actual FCS conference then by all means I'm fine with giving them chances.

I agree that it's the conference's fault for not accepting an automatic bid and SC State getting left out would almost have something to do with that. I imagine some voters are like me: they care a little less about the MEAC because they don't go to the playoffs automatically.

[WileECoyote06]

What's wrong about it?

Edit: So 0-19 the last 20 years? They're still garbage. Sorry about the 6 wins from 30 years ago I forgot about.

If they want a playoff bid they can send their 2nd place team to the Celebration Bowl. Otherwise see you in August.

As far as the OVC is concerned they didn't give up and decide to start their own bowl game because of how bad they were.

lol. . if you don't know. . just say you don't know. There are many, many factors that went into the Celebration Bowl decision. For now, it is a great option for the MEAC.

[Derby City Duke]

The MEAC has actually only won 6 playoff games in its history (6-25 overall according to the MEAC 2019 Football Media Guide):

1981: 1
1982: 1
1998: 1
1999: 3

Doing some digging, FAMU didn't not join the MEAC until 1979; they were a member of the SIAC through their title year of 1978.

Doesn't mean SC State hasn't done enough to earn serious consideration for an at-large bid this year.

[Professor Chaos]

The MEAC has actually only won 6 playoff games in its history (6-25 overall according to the MEAC 2019 Football Media Guide):

1981: 1
1982: 1
1998: 1
1999: 3

Doing some digging, FAMU didn't not join the MEAC until 1979; they were a member of the SIAC through their title year of 1978
I've got the current MEAC teams as 8-26 all-time in the playoffs. They were 8-10 from 1978-1999 and are 0-16 since 2000. That might contradict the media guide if certain teams who are now in the MEAC won or lost playoffs games when they weren't in the MEAC.

I'm guessing mvfcfan is thinking of the SWAC who is 0-19 all-time in the playoffs. They haven't sent a team to the FCS playoffs since 1997.

[Redbird 4th & short]

lol. . if you don't know. . just say you don't know. There are many, many factors that went into the Celebration Bowl decision. For now, it is a great option for the MEAC.
I agree with you on that point .. and good for HBCU to have a game like that. It has been a very successful event apparently.

BUt that in no way means the 3rd place MEAC team suddenly deserves an at large bid. They were 5-3 going into weekend and arguing theyve already done enough .. that is a patently rediculous statement .. talking about a 3rd place team who was 5-3 with that SOS from a conference that hasn't had their 1st or 2nd place team (wiith 1 or 2 losses) win a playoff game is a very long time. And suddenly, a 3rd place team with 3 losses deserves a bid ? A year after MVFC got just 3 teams ? History matters. Recent history matters even more.

Need to keep it real .. that bid very likely belongs to at least 5 or 6 more deserving FCS bubble teams IMO before SC State would get a shot at it. 1 good win in week 1 is not enough .. there are 11 other games.

[Reign of Terrier]

Again...this is pedantic, but if SC State finishes 8-3, they are tied for second. Yes, they lose the tie-breaker to A&T, but they are tied for second.

[Derby City Duke]

I've got the current MEAC teams as 8-26 all-time in the playoffs. They were 8-10 from 1978-1999 and are 0-16 since 2000. That might contradict the media guide if certain teams who are now in the MEAC won or lost playoffs games when they weren't in the MEAC.

I'm guessing mvfcfan is thinking of the SWAC who is 0-19 all-time in the playoffs. They haven't sent a team to the FCS playoffs since 1997.

I went back and scrubbed the media guide it's a tad confusing. It lists the conference's overall playoff record as 6-25, but when I went through the list year-by-year it works out to 6-31 (0-19 since 2000). The only team in the yearly tally that is not currently in the MEAC is Hampton, who has 5 appearances -- all losses. That may account for the difference in conference record since Hampton has moved to the Big South.

The first year the MEAC lists for postseason is 1981.

1981 - 1999: 6 - 12 (Hampton 0 - 2)
2000 - present: 0 - 19 (Hampton 0 - 3)

All current MEAC schools have been in the conference since 1997 (only Coppin State ('85) Hampton ('95) and Norfolk State ('97) joined after 1979).

[WileECoyote06]

NCCU rejoined the MEAC in 2011.

[JayJ79]

how about "playoff wins in years since the current players on the team were born".
I suppose those 1998 and 1999 wins still count for now. But in a few years, they won't xdrunkyx

[FargoBison]

Just one small niggle with this rundown. If Montana becomes the number three seed, that would mean that they won the MSU game. If they win that game, Montana will be the Big Sky auto bid, not Weber State, based on Big Sky rules (tie-breakers: first head to head, on which the three teams with the same record all went one and one, then common nonconference opponents, of which there are none, and then the Sagarin ratings, on which Montana is most highly rated by quite a bit). Not that it affects the actual bracket you laid out, which looks like a decent guess.

That was a good catch...Should have looked at the tiebreakers a bit closer but like you said it doesn't really change the bracket.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

CSJ's "Playoffs 'Til I Die" projected bracket:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/fcs-playoffs-til-i-die-finally-finally-a-whole-heap-of-clarity/

[Professor Chaos]

This would be the field as it sits right now using the AGS Poll consensus (AGS rank in parenthesis).

Autobids
Big Sky: Montana (3)
Big South: Monmouth (17)
CAA: James Madison (2)
MVFC: North Dakota St (1)
OVC: Austin Peay (14)
NEC: Central Connecticut St (15)
Patriot: Holy Cross (NR)
Pioneer: San Diego (28)
SOCON: Wofford (11)
Southland: Southeastern Louisiana (18)

At-large
1. Sac St (4)
2. Weber St (5)
3. South Dakota St (6)
4. Illinois St (7)
5. Montana St (8)
6. Northern Iowa (9)
7. Villanova (10)
8. Southeast Missouri St (12)
9. Central Arkansas (13)
10. Furman (16)
11. North Dakota (20)
12. Towson (21)
13. Southern Illinois (22)
14. Kennesaw St (24)

First four out
Nicholls (25)
Albany (26)
South Carolina St (30)
UT Martin (31)

Broken down by conference
MVFC (5): #1 North Dakota St, #6, South Dakota St, #7 Illinois St, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois
Big Sky (4): #3 Montana, #4 Sac St, #5 Weber St, #8 Montana St
CAA (3): #2 James Madison, Villanova, Towson
Southland (2): Southeastern Louisiana, Central Arkansas
OVC (2): Austin Peay, Southeast Missouri St
SOCON (2): Wofford, Furman
Big South (2): Monmouth, Kennesaw St
NEC (1): Central Connecticut St
Independent (1): North Dakota
Pioneer (1): San Diego
Patriot (1): Holy Cross

[kalm]

I don't think this isn't quite accurate, unless it's been changed in the last few years. Head to head is the first tiebreaker (all went 1-1 as you said) but the 2nd tiebreaker is common CONFERENCE opponents. Obviously for this year, since the only conference losses among the 3 are all to others in the group, they would all be winners against any common conference opponents (only Idaho qualifies from my quick scan of their schedules), but it would be possible in a future season for this to end up the tiebreaker, given the unbalanced schedules of the Big Sky. The unbalanced schedule also makes it possible for a co-champ to get the auto-bid even if they laid an egg and lost to the last place team if the other co-champ didn't play that team.

This minor clarification doesn't change that you are correct that UM wins the auto-bid with a win Saturday. Won't matter, as we're coming for your seed...xcoffeex

That is correct. Pretty uncommon for Big Sky teams to face the same OOC opponents.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That is correct. Pretty uncommon for Big Sky teams to face the same OOC opponents.


Is this year a blip in the radar for the EWU football or are they trending down from now on?

[uni88]

NDSU, JMU and Montana getting the top 3 seeds would be great for the NCAA financially and give FCS opportunities for good TV optics.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

NDSU, JMU and Montana getting the top 3 seeds would be great for the NCAA financially and give FCS opportunities for good TV optics.

A JMU-Montana semifinal in Harrisonburg would be epic. I would seriously consider going down for that! Especially if the weather would allow a round of golf.

I still vividly remember JMU losing their star QB in a semifinal game against Montana about 10 years go. It was an ESPN Friday night game iirc.

[CopperCat]

Is this year a blip in the radar for the EWU football or are they trending down from now on?
EWU somehow attracts big offensive talents, but inexplicably can’t play defense. I’d say this is an anomaly, but they might see a dip in wins next year too.

[Grizzlies82]

That is correct. Pretty uncommon for Big Sky teams to face the same OOC opponents.


Hell, with this oversized / unbalanced crap it is now uncommon for Big Sky teams to face the same CONFERENCE opponents.


It is unbelievable but this year Montana and Montana State have only TWO COMMON OPPONENTS (Sacramento State and UC Davis).


Think about that for a minute. How in the heck can this nonsense be allowed to continue?

[ming01]

Illinois St loses a seed with Brady Davis out?

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Injuries are hitting ISU and Weber St pretty hard. Will be interesting to see how it reflects in the seeding.

[Professor Chaos]

Illinois St loses a seed with Brady Davis out?
On the year he was 115-220 (52.3%) for 1570 yards, 9 TDs, and 9 INTs. His 117.54 passing efficiency rating was 7th out of 9 qualifying QBs in the MVFC. He wasn't the reason they were winning games.

That said it doesn't reflect well on the guy sitting on the bench behind him either but the bar isn't very high for QB play at Illinois St so, for all we know, a new QB might give them a jolt. Saturday's game in Youngstown will be telling.

[CappinHard]

With it looking like both the Big Sky and MVFC could each get 3 seeded, I'm curious if anyone knows whether 2 conferences occupying 6 of the 8 seeds has happened before.

[Grizzlies82]

With it looking like both the Big Sky and MVFC could each get 3 seeded, I'm curious if anyone knows whether 2 conferences occupying 6 of the 8 seeds has happened before.


Can't cite the specifics but it certainly seems like it has.

[semobison]

On the year he was 115-220 (52.3%) for 1570 yards, 9 TDs, and 9 INTs. His 117.54 passing efficiency rating was 7th out of 9 qualifying QBs in the MVFC. He wasn't the reason they were winning games.

That said it doesn't reflect well on the guy sitting on the bench behind him either but the bar isn't very high for QB play at Illinois St so, for all we know, a new QB might give them a jolt. Saturday's game in Youngstown will be telling.

In last weekends game against Misery State the Redbirds new QB threw a pick on his first attempt late in the 2nd qtr then went 0-2 passing in the 2nd half!

[MacThor]

With it looking like both the Big Sky and MVFC could each get 3 seeded, I'm curious if anyone knows whether 2 conferences occupying 6 of the 8 seeds has happened before.
It has not.

In fact, 3 seeds from one conference has only happened once - last year (Big Sky). I was surprised when I looked this up that the MVFC has never had 3 seeds.

[CappinHard]

It has not.

In fact, 3 seeds from one conference has only happened once - last year (Big Sky). I was surprised when I looked this up that the MVFC has never had 3 seeds.

That is interesting, thanks for the info. The MVFC not having 3 deal is probably SDSU's fault at least a couple times where we were in the driver seat for a seed and pissed it away. Let's hope that doesn't happen Saturday.

[R.A.]

I went back and scrubbed the media guide it's a tad confusing. It lists the conference's overall playoff record as 6-25, but when I went through the list year-by-year it works out to 6-31 (0-19 since 2000). The only team in the yearly tally that is not currently in the MEAC is Hampton, who has 5 appearances -- all losses. That may account for the difference in conference record since Hampton has moved to the Big South.

The first year the MEAC lists for postseason is 1981.

1981 - 1999: 6 - 12 (Hampton 0 - 2)
2000 - present: 0 - 19 (Hampton 0 - 3)

All current MEAC schools have been in the conference since 1997 (only Coppin State ('85) Hampton ('95) and Norfolk State ('97) joined after 1979).

No problem, we're 6-31 in the I-AA/FCS Playoffs. We're not counting FAMU's victories and National Title, because technically they were still in a process of transition from the SIAC to the MEAC, cool.

The right MEAC School in the playoffs, grabbing one or two wins, starts the process of changing the record.
It gets harder to justify keeping the MEAC out of the Playoffs, if the MEAC can win a playoff game.
SC State under Coach "Buddy" Pough, has been competitive in the playoffs, even though they lost.

I think that in the next 20 years, the MEAC and SWAC can become dominant FCS Football Conferences with concentrated efforts to accomplish such goals.

[R.A.]

If their conference doesn't want to send it's best team to the playoffs they shouldn't get a bid.
UH... we never said we didn't want to send our best team to the playoffs.

It's the NCAA rules that don't permit us to participate in more than one post- season format.


If they want to act like an actual FCS conference then by all means I'm fine with giving them chances.


OR, the FCS could attempt to respect the traditions and cultures of all its member schools in a meaningful way.

EXAMPLE: The SWAC's Bayou Classic predates the I-AA/ FCS, it's a Black College and American tradition. The NCAA makes ZERO modifications to allow the Bayou Classic to maintain its date (the date being connected with the success of the game), while also figuring out a way for the schools to also participate in the FCS Playoffs... the NCAA isn't as "inclusive" as it claims too be.

EXAMPLE: The former Heritage Bowl and current Celebration Bowl, are ways that the two FCS HBCU Conferences have decided to celebrate our cultural uniqueness. The NCAA has ruled that we can't have our Champions play in more than one post- season format. WHY NOT? Why not work with the HBCU Conferences and develop a way that the HBCU Champions can participate in the FCS Playoffs and the Celebration Bowl?

It's the NCAA's way or the highway, and that's not fair, that's not just.

[mvfcfan]

I mean, if they wanted to make the Celebration Bowl a 1st round playoff game I could probably live with that. They incorporated the BCS bowl into the new CFP format, but that is also not NCAA sanctioned.

[R.A.]

I mean, if they wanted to make the Celebration Bowl a 1st round playoff game I could probably live with that.
-So you can make it an HBCU elimination game, and you only have to justify competing with one HBCU in the postseason. Nah Champ Nope.

-Also, it's a Championship game, why would we play our Bowl Championship game before Bowl Season even starts? Nope Nope nope.

-Also, other HBCU games are still playing AFTER the first round of the FCS Playoffs. I've already mentioned the Bayou Classic which predates the FCS/ I-AA Playoffs, and the success of that game is tied to its date. So Southern and Grambling should move their 67,000-70,000 attendance game, for the entire FCS Playoffs whose total attendance doesn't equal ONE Bayou Classic?? Nope, Nah, Nope.

-Even the FCS Championship Game's attendance, doesn't equal ONE SWAC Title game's attendance.


They incorporated the BCS bowl into the new CFP format, but that is also not NCAA sanctioned.

Well, HBCUs have ZERO control in the NCAA, so there's that... Interesting Acronym, "NCAA."

We just cut the NCAA out of the money with the Celebration Bowl. $1Million per conference, none goes to the NCAA, and it's seen Nationwide.

-Don't accommodate for us, we'll accommodate for ourselves, No Problem.

-Now the NCAA wants to copy us and have the FCS Championship game on ABC. "Imitation is the highest form of flattery."

-What happens when there are two HBCU teams in the FCS Title game, and obviously two HBCUs in the Celebration Bowl?? Will the NCAA change the rules again??

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

[/B]-So you can make it an HBCU elimination game, and you only have to justify competing with one HBCU in the postseason. Nah Champ Nope.

-Also, it's a Championship game, why would we play our Bowl Championship game before Bowl Season even starts? Nope Nope nope.

-Also, other HBCU games are still playing AFTER the first round of the FCS Playoffs. I've already mentioned the Bayou Classic which predates the FCS/ I-AA Playoffs, and the success of that game is tied to its date. So Southern and Grambling should move their 67,000-70,000 attendance game, for the entire FCS Playoffs whose total attendance doesn't equal ONE Bayou Classic?? Nope, Nah, Nope.

-Even the FCS Championship Game's attendance, doesn't equal ONE SWAC Title game's attendance.


Well, HBCUs have ZERO control in the NCAA, so there's that... Interesting Acronym, "NCAA."

We just cut the NCAA out of the money with the Celebration Bowl. $1Million per conference, none goes to the NCAA, and it's seen Nationwide.

-Don't accommodate for us, we'll accommodate for ourselves, No Problem.

-Now the NCAA wants to copy us and have the FCS Championship game on ABC. "Imitation is the highest form of flattery."

-What happens when there are two HBCU teams in the FCS Title game, and obviously two HBCUs in the Celebration Bowl?? Will the NCAA change the rules again??



Bayou Classic is played during the regular season, right? It doesn't interfere with anything associated with the playoff format. When is the Celebration Bowl played? When the season is done. Why no play it during the season? Pit last years conference champs against one another and then participate in the playoffs.

In reference to your attendance numbers. NDSU filled Target Field with 35K people with 99% being Bison fans. Get another fan base that follows decent and US Bank attendance game could rival any BC game.

Point is the HBCUs have their own niche carved out....great for them.

[R.A.]

Bayou Classic is played during the regular season, right? It doesn't interfere with anything associated with the playoff format. When is the Celebration Bowl played? When the season is done. Why not play it during the season? Pit last years conference champs against one another and then participate in the playoffs.

The Bayou Classic is played as a regular season game, AFTER the FCS Playoffs have started.

Do you all ever watch HBCU Football? The Bayou Classic is HBCU Football's top game. You all would know when the Bayou Classic is played, if you'd watch the game...

The Saturday After Thanksgiving, Bayou Classic Weekend. It's been that way for half a century...

The date is tied to the game attendance... The date is tied to the game attendance. The date, is tied, to the game attendance.



In reference to your attendance numbers. NDSU filled Target Field with 35K people with 99% being Bison fans. Get another fan base that follows decent and US Bank attendance game could rival any BC game.
It's not a competition, lol... I'm just stating some facts, that's all. xlolx


Point is the HBCUs have their own niche carved out....great for them.

The Point is, the NCAA doesn't respect that niche, and as you all consistently are doing in response too me, you continue to suggest that WE/ HBCUs, change our niche in order to fit into the NCAAs, without the NCAA doing a thing of changing to embrace us into it.

Why not amend the one postseason format rule? How does this hurt the NCAA? The NCAA already lost the FBS post-season AND lost the HBCU Championship. Perhaps the NCAA's rules are flawed and need to be changed.

[UNHWildcat18]

This would be the field as it sits right now using the AGS Poll consensus (AGS rank in parenthesis).

Autobids
Big Sky: Montana (3)
Big South: Monmouth (17)
CAA: James Madison (2)
MVFC: North Dakota St (1)
OVC: Austin Peay (14)
NEC: Central Connecticut St (15)
Patriot: Holy Cross (NR)
Pioneer: San Diego (28)
SOCON: Wofford (11)
Southland: Southeastern Louisiana (18)

At-large
1. Sac St (4)
2. Weber St (5)
3. South Dakota St (6)
4. Illinois St (7)
5. Montana St (8)
6. Northern Iowa (9)
7. Villanova (10)
8. Southeast Missouri St (12)
9. Central Arkansas (13)
10. Furman (16)
11. North Dakota (20)
12. Towson (21)
13. Southern Illinois (22)
14. Kennesaw St (24)

First four out
Nicholls (25)
Albany (26)
South Carolina St (30)
UT Martin (31)

Broken down by conference
MVFC (5): #1 North Dakota St, #6, South Dakota St, #7 Illinois St, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois
Big Sky (4): #3 Montana, #4 Sac St, #5 Weber St, #8 Montana St
CAA (3): #2 James Madison, Villanova, Towson
Southland (2): Southeastern Louisiana, Central Arkansas
OVC (2): Austin Peay, Southeast Missouri St
SOCON (2): Wofford, Furman
Big South (2): Monmouth, Kennesaw St
NEC (1): Central Connecticut St
Independent (1): North Dakota
Pioneer (1): San Diego
Patriot (1): Holy Cross

I agree with most of this, but KSU or SIU is going to get tossed out for UAlbany if they win. they'd be 8-4 and 6-2 in conference.

[JayJ79]

It has not.

In fact, 3 seeds from one conference has only happened once - last year (Big Sky). I was surprised when I looked this up that the MVFC has never had 3 seeds.
There have been years when at least 3 of the top 8 teams in the FCS have been from the MVFC. But unlike the CAA and the Big Sky, the MVFC doesn't have a bajillion member schools, so the top schools generally always have to play each other and tend to "cannibalize" each other a bit. So you end up with multiple teams with good-but-not-great W/L records. Where as other conferences have 1 or 2 top teams that may not have to play all the other top teams in their conference, and can inflate their W/L records on the mid/lower teams in the conference.

And this gives the committee enough of an excuse to just take the top 1 or 2 teams from conferences for seeds instead of taking 3 or more from a conference.

[walliver]

Other than postponing the FCS playoffs until late December and playing games well into January, what accommodations could the NCAA make for the HBCU's? And not many schools are going to vote for a process requiring teams to travel to Fargo in January.
The Bayou Classic only affects two teams, neither of which has been nationally relevant for a long time. The Celebration Bowl could be played in January - maybe the week before the Super Bowl. Even though not currently allowed by the NCAA, Liberty has shown that whiners get what they want.
I am interested in what type of special accommodations should be offered to the SWAC and MEAC.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The Bayou Classic is played as a regular season game, AFTER the FCS Playoffs have started.

Do you all ever watch HBCU Football? The Bayou Classic is HBCU Football's top game. You all would know when the Bayou Classic is played, if you'd watch the game...

The Saturday After Thanksgiving, Bayou Classic Weekend. It's been that way for half a century...

The date is tied to the game attendance... The date is tied to the game attendance. The date, is tied, to the game attendance.


It's not a competition, lol... I'm just stating some facts, that's all. xlolx


The Point is, the NCAA doesn't respect that niche, and as you all consistently are doing in response too me, you continue to suggest that WE/ HBCUs, change our niche in order to fit into the NCAAs, without the NCAA doing a thing of changing to embrace us into it.

Why not amend the one postseason format rule? How does this hurt the NCAA? The NCAA already lost the FBS post-season AND lost the HBCU Championship. Perhaps the NCAA's rules are flawed and need to be changed.



For the start date for the BC, I couldn't remember off the top of my head when the exact date was.

I never referenced NDSU's destination game as a competition. You brought it up as a comparison on how much better it draws compared to the FCS playoffs. But you are right, the FCS cannot rival the attendance of the BC.

Amend what rule exactly? Start date?

[Professor Chaos]

Personally, I'd much rather see the Ivies in the FCS playoffs before the MEAC/SWAC champ. We've seen how the MEAC/SWAC performs in the playoffs. As much as some may claim it isn't, it's still a mystery how the Ivies would do.

It would be ideal if every FCS conference sent their best to the playoffs but I don't think there should be special concessions made to accommodate the SWAC classics, SWAC championship, or Celebration Bowl that conflict with the playoff schedule. Each school/conference makes the decision that's best for themselves and that's what the MEAC and SWAC are doing.

[MacThor]

[/B]-So you can make it an HBCU elimination game, and you only have to justify competing with one HBCU in the postseason. Nah Champ Nope.

-Also, it's a Championship game, why would we play our Bowl Championship game before Bowl Season even starts? Nope Nope nope.

-Also, other HBCU games are still playing AFTER the first round of the FCS Playoffs. I've already mentioned the Bayou Classic which predates the FCS/ I-AA Playoffs, and the success of that game is tied to its date. So Southern and Grambling should move their 67,000-70,000 attendance game, for the entire FCS Playoffs whose total attendance doesn't equal ONE Bayou Classic?? Nope, Nah, Nope.

-Even the FCS Championship Game's attendance, doesn't equal ONE SWAC Title game's attendance.


Well, HBCUs have ZERO control in the NCAA, so there's that... Interesting Acronym, "NCAA."

We just cut the NCAA out of the money with the Celebration Bowl. $1Million per conference, none goes to the NCAA, and it's seen Nationwide.

-Don't accommodate for us, we'll accommodate for ourselves, No Problem.

-Now the NCAA wants to copy us and have the FCS Championship game on ABC. "Imitation is the highest form of flattery."

-What happens when there are two HBCU teams in the FCS Title game, and obviously two HBCUs in the Celebration Bowl?? Will the NCAA change the rules again??

R.A., I am all for everyone in FCS to be eligible for the playoffs. HBCUs and Ivy League, too. But this sure doesn't sound like you're willing to meet the NCAA half-way. What do you propose?

Let's start with the Bayou Classic. Moving the date is a non-starter. Agreed. However, with a 5-round playoff, the NCAA cannot push the first round back, either. Even with the lousy attendance at most first round games. So, if Grambling and/or Southern are "in the field," are you saying the committee should be forced to give one or both of them a Top 8 seed and a first-round bye? What if the Bayou Classic determines the SWAC Champion and AQ? I just don't see a path to accommodation in this case. They can't change the entire structure of the playoffs to accommodate only two schools, who (let's face it - less than 20% of FCS schools make the playoffs) are unlikely to be in the field. I suppose that those two schools - and only those two schools - could opt out of the FCS playoffs, and declare the Bayou Classic is more important to them. This leaves the rest of the SWAC eligible.

I think the Celebration Bowl is easier to accommodate, but it would take some compromise from the HBCUs. As you highlight, it is a Bowl game. Treat it like an FBS Bowl game. If an FBS team makes the CFP, they're not also going to a Bowl. So, the AQs from the SWAC and MEAC, plus any at-larges from those conferences, go to the playoffs. The SWAC and MEAC would then determine who is "bowl eligible" from the remaining teams for the CB. The compromise, of course, is that it would not be an HBCU "Championship." After all, since all these HBCUs will be making the final four, they're going to be busy that weekend. :) They will still have an opportunity to celebrate cultural heritage with two good teams from each conference.

The SWAC Championship game would have to go - AQ determined at the end of the RS like everyone else. None of the other conferences has one.

[MacThor]

There have been years when at least 3 of the top 8 teams in the FCS have been from the MVFC. But unlike the CAA and the Big Sky, the MVFC doesn't have a bajillion member schools, so the top schools generally always have to play each other and tend to "cannibalize" each other a bit. So you end up with multiple teams with good-but-not-great W/L records. Where as other conferences have 1 or 2 top teams that may not have to play all the other top teams in their conference, and can inflate their W/L records on the mid/lower teams in the conference.

And this gives the committee enough of an excuse to just take the top 1 or 2 teams from conferences for seeds instead of taking 3 or more from a conference.

Yeah, yeah, the NCAA is always keeping the MVFC down.

In the 6 playoffs since the 24-team format, the CAA had two seeds in each of the first three years, and one seed in each of the past three. All of those seeds were merited, not based on some "excuse" by the committee or artificially inflated record. The CAA has put one or two teams in the final four every season under this format.

The MVFC has had two seeds in each of the past 5 seasons. I can't find a single case of what you're describing. Please show an example of a third seed-deserving MVFC team being excluded by an undeserving seed from the CAA. I'll hang up and listen.

[Reign of Terrier]

I just want my team to be able to lose multiple games by 3+ scores and be considered for a seed like the MVFC. There are two such teams currently. #FallingUp

[JayJ79]

The MEAC and the SWAC have decided to do their own thing. More power to them.
I just don't see any point in needing to include their also-rans in the NCAA playoffs.
Give those at-large spots to teams from conferences that are committed to being in the playoffs.

[UNHWildcat18]

The MEAC and the SWAC have decided to do their own thing. More power to them.
I just don't see any point in needing to include their also-rans in the NCAA playoffs.
Give those at-large spots to teams from conferences that are committed to being in the playoffs.

I 100% agree, I'd also kick out the pioneer AQ, total waste of a spot IMO.

[Professor Chaos]

I 100% agree, I'd also kick out the pioneer AQ, total waste of a spot IMO.
Is it any more of a waste than the 5th team from the MVFC, Big Sky, or CAA?

[UNHWildcat18]

Is it any more of a waste than the 5th team from the MVFC, Big Sky, or CAA?

A fair point, but yes I do see it as more of a waste. They don't have scholarships, this isn't a participation trophy T-Ball league. Then again I'd also reduce the playoff size if possible

[MR. CHICKEN]

I 100% agree, I'd also kick out the pioneer AQ, total waste of a spot IMO.

.....WHAA???.......ALWAYS GOOD...TA EMBARASS.....DUH BIG FLUFFY............PERFECT EXAMPLE.......ALL INCLUDED....IS RIGHT..........BRAWK!

[fencer24]

The problem is more the selection committee than the conferences. In a perfect world, they would seed 1-8 and those would be the final 8 and be whittled down to 1 and 2 for the championship. But it doesn't work that way because games have to be won no matter your rankings. As a human endeavor, I am sure that the committee is doing the best they can with what they have, but I don't see a better way to do it without having a 160 team play off, and even then, a bad team could beat a good team on Any Given Saturday.

[JayJ79]

I 100% agree, I'd also kick out the pioneer AQ, total waste of a spot IMO.
I disagree. It is an NCAA tournament. NCAA tournaments have an AQ spot for each qualifying conference that chooses to participate.
Is that AQ from the Pioneer going to win the championship? nope.
but pretty much all the FCS conference schools have zero chance of winning the NCAA basketball tournament championship either, so should they get their AQ spots taken away?

[Baron Sardonicus]

I 100% agree, I'd also kick out the pioneer AQ, total waste of a spot IMO.

You are a New Hampshire fan. Why are you posting in a thread about the playoffs?

[apaladin]

I disagree. It is an NCAA tournament. NCAA tournaments have an AQ spot for each qualifying conference that chooses to participate.
Is that AQ from the Pioneer going to win the championship? nope.
but pretty much all the FCS conference schools have zero chance of winning the NCAA basketball tournament championship either, so should they get their AQ spots taken away?

VILLANOVA plus in basketball everyone has the same amount of scholarships. Apples and oranges. FCS football schools win NCAA tourney basketball games all the time.

[Professor Chaos]

I disagree. It is an NCAA tournament. NCAA tournaments have an AQ spot for each qualifying conference that chooses to participate.
Is that AQ from the Pioneer going to win the championship? nope.
but pretty much all the FCS conference schools have zero chance of winning the NCAA basketball tournament championship either, so should they get their AQ spots taken away?
Yep, this is my thoughts also although you summarized them better that I would've done. IMO the argument should be whether non-scholly or partial scholly leagues should allow themselves to be classified as FCS programs but for as long as they are their league champion should have an automatic invite to the playoffs (if they want one).

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I disagree. It is an NCAA tournament. NCAA tournaments have an AQ spot for each qualifying conference that chooses to participate.
Is that AQ from the Pioneer going to win the championship? nope.
but pretty much all the FCS conference schools have zero chance of winning the NCAA basketball tournament championship either, so should they get their AQ spots taken away?

Basketball and football are drastically different. You can easily play back-2-backs/multiple games in a week. Football is obviously far more dangerous so the injury attrition factor is greater. I just don't like the teams in football having to play vastly inferior teams given the sport's variables.

If nothing else I think AQ's should have to meet a reasonable criteria in order to gain entry into the field.

With 24 field team playoff there's always going to be teams there simply to fill out the bracket. So if it's the 4th place MVFC/CAA or PL/PFL AQ ultimately doesn't matter. Those teams job is to take up space in the bracket.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Basketball and football are drastically different. You can easily play back-2-backs/multiple games in a week. Football is obviously far more dangerous so the injury attrition factor is greater. I just don't like the teams in football having to play vastly inferior teams given the sport's variables.

If nothing else I think AQ's should have to meet a reasonable criteria in order to gain entry into the field.

With 24 field team playoff there's always going to be teams there simply to fill out the bracket. So if it's the 4th place MVFC/CAA or PL/PFL AQ ultimately doesn't matter. Those teams job is to take up space in the bracket.

......ROUNDBALLERS...GET HURT.....AS WELL AS DUH PIGGY LADS.......HAS ANY PLAYOFF TEAM....BOYCOTTED UH GAME......WHIFF PIONEER/NEC/BIG SOUFF.....FO' FEAR UH GETTIN' HURT....xconfusedx.......DON'T SEEM TA BE AFRAID TA PLAY CLEMSON/BAMA/OREGON/PENN STATE..xconfusedx.....YER CONCERN FO' PLAYERS....TOUCHIN'.....DEY GOT MOM'S/POP'S...FO' DAT..........PLAY BALL....xrolleyesx....BRAWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

I 100% agree, I'd also kick out the pioneer AQ, total waste of a spot IMO.


....BETCHA....DIDN'T MIND....DRAWIN'.....NEC'S......C. CONNECTICUT STATE....AN' 2ND STRING QB...(IT WAS ALL YA'S COOD HANDLE)......WHICH OPENED...DOOR.......FO'..YER GOOD...DUBBYA.......AGIN'....C. ARKANSAS....AWK!

[JayJ79]

anything above 4 teams is really just filler (heck, some years that number is 3, or 2, or 1).
doesn't mean the playoffs should be reduced to only 4 teams.

With the current setup, the top 8 teams face the same amount of games as they would in a 16-team field. The only real difference is that they can now face conference opponents in that round.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think the solution to a lot of problems is to just seed the entire field, but what do I know.

[caa51]

You are a New Hampshire fan. Why are you posting in a thread about the playoffs?

Interesting question to a fan of a team that has made the playoffs 14 of the past 15 seasons, seems to me he would be an authority on the subject!! Just out of curiosity, what is the out of conference record for San Diego since the inception of the powerhouse pioneer league? How about we don't count the yearly win against DII patsy Western New Mexico.

[UNHWildcat18]

I disagree. It is an NCAA tournament. NCAA tournaments have an AQ spot for each qualifying conference that chooses to participate.
Is that AQ from the Pioneer going to win the championship? nope.
but pretty much all the FCS conference schools have zero chance of winning the NCAA basketball tournament championship either, so should they get their AQ spots taken away?

A fair way to look at it.

[UNHWildcat18]

Basketball and football are drastically different. You can easily play back-2-backs/multiple games in a week. Football is obviously far more dangerous so the injury attrition factor is greater. I just don't like the teams in football having to play vastly inferior teams given the sport's variables.

If nothing else I think AQ's should have to meet a reasonable criteria in order to gain entry into the field.

With 24 field team playoff there's always going to be teams there simply to fill out the bracket. So if it's the 4th place MVFC/CAA or PL/PFL AQ ultimately doesn't matter. Those teams job is to take up space in the bracket.

Also a fair way to look at it.

[UNHWildcat18]

You are a New Hampshire fan. Why are you posting in a thread about the playoffs?

Respectfully, GTFO of here with your 16 posts and join date of this October. Your league follows a D-3 Aid model and somehow gets an AQ into a D1 tournament. Be grateful that conference allows you to get curb stomped in the opening round.

[R.A.]

R.A., I am all for everyone in FCS to be eligible for the playoffs. HBCUs and Ivy League, too. But this sure doesn't sound like you're willing to meet the NCAA half-way. What do you propose?

Let's start with the Bayou Classic. Moving the date is a non-starter. Agreed. However, with a 5-round playoff, the NCAA cannot push the first round back, either.

There's a 21 day, three week gap between the FCS Semifinals and the Championship Game. In the past, old Heritage Bowl Games were played on December 26, 27, Jan 1st, etc, etc; and those games STILL had over 30,000 people in attendance. So if "The Holiday Season" is an excuse, I'm not buying it.

So, yes the NCAA could move the start of the FCS playoffs back if they wanted to do so. They choose not to accommodate the Bayou Classic.

Besides, it would give the other FCS teams an advantage of more practice before the start of the FCS playoffs, an advantage that Grambling and Southern wouldn't have.



I think the Celebration Bowl is easier to accommodate, but it would take some compromise from the HBCUs. As you highlight, it is a Bowl game. Treat it like an FBS Bowl game. If an FBS team makes the CFP, they're not also going to a Bowl.
The College Football Playoff Games are still Bowl Games.




So, the AQs from the SWAC and MEAC, plus any at-larges from those conferences, go to the playoffs. The SWAC and MEAC would then determine who is "bowl eligible" from the remaining teams for the CB. The compromise, of course, is that it would not be an HBCU "Championship." After all, since all these HBCUs will be making the final four, they're going to be busy that weekend. :) They will still have an opportunity to celebrate cultural heritage with two good teams from each conference.


The Celebration Bowl, is not a "NCAA First Four" Elimination tournament game, with the objective of sniping out as many HBCU opponents as possible before they can participate in the actual tournament.

How many ways are you all going to say "We don't want HBCUs in our post-season?" How many scams are you all going to produce to dwindle away as many HBCU Post-Season opponents as possible?

If Both the MEAC and SWAC Champion both qualify for the FCS Playoffs, even if one loses in the Celebration Bowl, they're both should still be qualified for the FCS Playoffs.

The FCS and FBS could push the title games back again... there could be another pause in the playoffs for all FCS Conferences that desire to have a Bowl game. Martin Luther King Day is typically the 3rd Monday in January, and it's a federal holiday, so everyone's going to be home. The FCS Championship could be that Saturday, the 18th of January.

For the FBS, The NCAA could advertise MLK Day January 20th as a community service day during the Morning and Afternoon, and for the evening, watch the FBS National title game.



The SWAC Championship game would have to go - AQ determined at the end of the RS like everyone else. None of the other conferences has one.

The other conferences could have one if they wanted. The entire post season format could be redeveloped to be as inclusive as possible for qualified teams and conferences. The SWAC Title Game made a Million Plus for the SWAC. They should give that up?

-Why don't the other FCS School aspire to have their own Conference Title games, and see what money they can earn from it?
------------------------------------

This is all about time and space. There is time and space to accommodate the HBCUs, everyone else having equal opportunity as the HBCUs, and the FCS posteseason.

-If North Dakota State can get with another school and have 60,000 fans for a game during the same time that the Bayou Classic is going on, then afterwards compete in the FCS Playoffs, then what's the problem, why not do it?

-The FCS Playoffs aren't a huge moneymaker for schools. The FCS playoffs aren't even good at exposure. Why shouldn't schools seek more money and exposure in the Post- Season??

-We keep saying the NCAA can't do this, can't do that... "Who Watches The Watchmen?"

[Professor Chaos]

There's a 21 day, three week gap between the FCS Semifinals and the Championship Game. In the past, old Heritage Bowl Games were played on December 26, 27, Jan 1st, etc, etc; and those games STILL had over 30,000 people in attendance. So if "The Holiday Season" is an excuse, I'm not buying it.

So, yes the NCAA could move the start of the FCS playoffs back if they wanted to do so. They choose not to accommodate the Bayou Classic.

Besides, it would give the other FCS teams an advantage of more practice before the start of the FCS playoffs, an advantage that Grambling and Southern wouldn't have.

The Celebration Bowl, is not a "NCAA First Four" Elimination tournament game.
How many ways are you all going to say "We don't want HBCUs in our post-season?"
If Both the MEAC and SWAC Champion both qualify for the FCS Playoffs, even if one loses in the Celebration Bowl, they're both still qualify.

The FCS and FBS could push the title games back again... there could be another pause in the playoffs for all FCS Conferences that desire to have a Bowl game. Martin Luther King Day in typically the 3rd Monday in January, and it's a federal holiday, so everyone's going to be home. The FCS Championship could be that Saturday, the 18th of January.

For the FBS, The NCAA could advertise MLK Day January 20th as a community service day during the Morning and Afternoon, and for the evening, watch the FBS National title game.



The other conference could have one if they wanted.

This is all about time and space. There is time and space to accommodate the HBCUs, everyone else having equal opportunity as the HBCUs, ans the FCS posteseason.

We keep saying the NCAA can't do this, can't do that... "Who Watches The Watchmen?"
Two things:

1) Having playoff games right around or shortly after Christmas would absolutely not work. You're comparing it to games scheduled months in advance allowing people to make plans, even holiday plans, around them. That isn't possible when you don't know when or where you'll be playing until 5 or 6 days prior to the game. Attendance would be brutal (as it is for Thanksgiving weekend playoff games for much the same reason) for key playoff games.

2) You can put your victim card back in your pocket with the "How many ways are you going to say 'We don't want HBCUs in our post-season'?" comment. It's clear what the regular season scheduling guidelines are for postseason eligibility and 12 out of the 13 FCS conferences meet them. If the SWAC does not want to meet those guidelines that's their prerogative to decide but the majority rules in this scenario. If they'd rather maintain their traditional games/schedule that's fine but don't act like you're being fleeced when it's the choice you made.

[uni88]

There's a 21 day, three week gap between the FCS Semifinals and the Championship Game. In the past, old Heritage Bowl Games were played on December 26, 27, Jan 1st, etc, etc; and those games STILL had over 30,000 people in attendance. So if "The Holiday Season" is an excuse, I'm not buying it.

So, yes the NCAA could move the start of the FCS playoffs back if they wanted to do so. They choose not to accommodate the Bayou Classic.

Besides, it would give the other FCS teams an advantage of more practice before the start of the FCS playoffs, an advantage that Grambling and Southern wouldn't have.

The College Football Playoff Games are still Bowl Games.

The Celebration Bowl, is not a "NCAA First Four" Elimination tournament game, with the objective of sniping out as many HBCU opponents as possible before they can participate in the actual tournament.

How many ways are you all going to say "We don't want HBCUs in our post-season?" How many scams are you all going to produce to dwindle away as many HBCU Post-Season opponents as possible?

If Both the MEAC and SWAC Champion both qualify for the FCS Playoffs, even if one loses in the Celebration Bowl, they're both should still be qualified for the FCS Playoffs.

The FCS and FBS could push the title games back again... there could be another pause in the playoffs for all FCS Conferences that desire to have a Bowl game. Martin Luther King Day is typically the 3rd Monday in January, and it's a federal holiday, so everyone's going to be home. The FCS Championship could be that Saturday, the 18th of January.

For the FBS, The NCAA could advertise MLK Day January 20th as a community service day during the Morning and Afternoon, and for the evening, watch the FBS National title game.

The other conferences could have one if they wanted. The entire post season format could be redeveloped to be as inclusive as possible for qualified teams and conferences. The SWAC Title Game made a Million Plus for the SWAC. They should give that up?

-Why don't the other FCS School aspire to have their own Conference Title games, and see what money they can earn from it?

This is all about time and space. There is time and space to accommodate the HBCUs, everyone else having equal opportunity as the HBCUs, and the FCS posteseason.

-If North Dakota State can get with another school and have 60,000 fans for a game during the same time that the Bayou Classic is going on, then afterwards compete in the FCS Playoffs, then what's the problem, why not do it?

-The FCS Playoffs aren't a huge moneymaker for schools. The FCS playoffs aren't even good at exposure. Why shouldn't schools seek more money and exposure in the Post- Season??

-We keep saying the NCAA can't do this, can't do that... "Who Watches The Watchmen?"

I think the Bayou Classic, SWAC Championship and Celebration Bowl are cool and understand why the SWAC and MEAC play them but I have to ask why should the rest of FCS change the playoffs to accommodate them?

Yes, FCS could push back the start of the playoffs but that means that the semifinals would be played after Christmas. Attendance would be worse than Thanksgiving weekend.

Why don't the SWAC and MEAC ask the NCAA for a waiver to participate in the playoffs and to allow them to move the Celebration Bowl to MLK Day? They get an opportunity to participate in the playoffs and play in the Celebration Bowl without impacting the rest of FCS.

I don't think there's an easy answer to the Bayou Classic or SWAC Championship that doesn't require someone making a change and I don't think anyone should have to do that.

You're asking 105 FCS schools to change to accommodate 21 schools that have a good thing going. The SWAC and MEAC have made a choice that was best for them but it's not reasonable to ask the rest of FCS to make changes to accommodate their participation in the playoffs. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

[Professor Chaos]

New hypothetical: if Montana St beats Montana and then JMU along with all the other Big Sky and MVFC teams in contention for seeds win how to you see the seeds playing out?

I'd say something like:
1. NDSU
2. JMU
3. Weber St
4. Sacramento St
5. SDSU
6. Montana St
7. Montana
8. Illinois St

Or does the committee try to avoid the political quagmire of having 7 of the 8 seeds from only two conferences (and 4 from the Big Sky)? If so, who do you take out from the Big Sky? They're all 9-3. Or do you take out Illinois St and still give the Big Sky their 4 seeds? If yes to either who gets put in instead? Monmouth is probably out of contention since Montana beat them easily and Montana would probably be the most likely Big Sky team left out of the seeds in that scenario. Wofford? Nova? Central Arkansas? Central Connecticut St?

And a bonus question: does that result put UND on the right side of the bubble at 7-4 as the only FCS team outside of UNI and the teams in the top 8 I listed above to have a win over anyone in that top 8?

Bottom line: A Montana St victory this weekend would have a ripple effect throughout the bracket and make the committee's job even tougher.

[Catbooster]

I hope we get to find out!

[JayJ79]

I think the solution to a lot of problems is to just seed the entire field, but what do I know.
I don't believe any NCAA-run tournaments besides D1 MBB and WBB seed the entire field. Generally they only seed the top quarter.

[MacThor]

Wow. I thought my ideas were pretty accommodating. Apparently there is no room for compromise.
There's a 21 day, three week gap between the FCS Semifinals and the Championship Game. In the past, old Heritage Bowl Games were played on December 26, 27, Jan 1st, etc, etc; and those games STILL had over 30,000 people in attendance. So if "The Holiday Season" is an excuse, I'm not buying it.

So, yes the NCAA could move the start of the FCS playoffs back if they wanted to do so. They choose not to accommodate the Bayou Classic.

Besides, it would give the other FCS teams an advantage of more practice before the start of the FCS playoffs, an advantage that Grambling and Southern wouldn't have.

So, your position is that 4 teams should have to play the Saturday before and after Christmas, in order to accommodate 2 schools who have a less than 10% chance of qualifying for the playoffs. Were those Heritage Bowl teams playing both weekends?


The College Football Playoff Games are still Bowl Games. Yes, but if Ohio State wins the Big 10 Championship, and the Rose Bowl is not one of the semifinal bowls, they don't get to play both. They are giving up their traditional conference spot in the Rose Bowl in order to participate in the playoffs. Is this a vast conspiracy by the CFP to keep Ohio State out of the playoff? No, that's ridiculous.



The Celebration Bowl, is not a "NCAA First Four" Elimination tournament game, with the objective of sniping out as many HBCU opponents as possible before they can participate in the actual tournament. I didn't say they had to play each other in a play-in game. If FAMU and Alcorn are the two champs, put them in the playoffs. Match them regionally; same rules as everyone else. Let SCST or NCAT play Southern in the Celebration Bowl.

How many ways are you all going to say "We don't want HBCUs in our post-season?" How many scams are you all going to produce to dwindle away as many HBCU Post-Season opponents as possible?See above. My answer would allow for MORE post-season participation by HBCUs. The champs make the playoffs, and other teams with good seasons get rewarded with a bowl game. Other FCS teams that win 6 games but miss the playoffs don't get a bowl game.

If Both the MEAC and SWAC Champion both qualify for the FCS Playoffs, even if one loses in the Celebration Bowl, they're both should still be qualified for the FCS Playoffs.

The FCS and FBS could push the title games back again... there could be another pause in the playoffs for all FCS Conferences that desire to have a Bowl game. Martin Luther King Day is typically the 3rd Monday in January, and it's a federal holiday, so everyone's going to be home. The FCS Championship could be that Saturday, the 18th of January.

For the FBS, The NCAA could advertise MLK Day January 20th as a community service day during the Morning and Afternoon, and for the evening, watch the FBS National title game.



The other conferences could have one if they wanted. The entire post season format could be redeveloped to be as inclusive as possible for qualified teams and conferences. The SWAC Title Game made a Million Plus for the SWAC. They should give that up?

-Why don't the other FCS School aspire to have their own Conference Title games, and see what money they can earn from it?
------------------------------------

This is all about time and space. There is time and space to accommodate the HBCUs, everyone else having equal opportunity as the HBCUs, and the FCS posteseason.

-If North Dakota State can get with another school and have 60,000 fans for a game during the same time that the Bayou Classic is going on, then afterwards compete in the FCS Playoffs, then what's the problem, why not do it?

-The FCS Playoffs aren't a huge moneymaker for schools. The FCS playoffs aren't even good at exposure. Why shouldn't schools seek more money and exposure in the Post- Season??

-We keep saying the NCAA can't do this, can't do that... "Who Watches The Watchmen?"
Sigh. I'm out. Nobody is conspiring to keep the HBCUs out. I'm on the record wanting broader playoff fields.
Pitch these ideas to Jay Walker, perhaps he'll lobby for this on Sunday.

[MSUBobcat]

There's a 21 day, three week gap between the FCS Semifinals and the Championship Game. In the past, old Heritage Bowl Games were played on December 26, 27, Jan 1st, etc, etc; and those games STILL had over 30,000 people in attendance. So if "The Holiday Season" is an excuse, I'm not buying it.

So, yes the NCAA could move the start of the FCS playoffs back if they wanted to do so. They choose not to accommodate the Bayou Classic.

Besides, it would give the other FCS teams an advantage of more practice before the start of the FCS playoffs, an advantage that Grambling and Southern wouldn't have.


I have a REAL hard time the NCAA's motivating factor for not moving the playoffs has ANYTHING to do with the Bayou Classic. 2 things, IMO, are much more important: first, I think most FCS schools prefer to have that holiday period from Christmas to New Year's Eve off to allow the students to be home with family, since FCS schools still emphasize the STUDENT over the ATHLETE, unlike the powerhouse FBS schools. Secondly, moving it back one week means our semi-final games are going to be competing against the CFP for eyeballs. Hell, even as a big fan of FCS football, if my team isn't in the semis, I'm not sure I wouldn't pick the CFP games over the FCS games. There's no way, no how, anyone wants the FCS and FBS semifinal games on the same damn day. So now we'd have to move the playoffs back a week, take the CFP semifinals week off, have the FCS semifinals the following week and have then have the FCS championship the following week OR give the finalists a week off and now our playoffs extend from the first weekend of December to half way through January.

You're being pretty damn demanding to have ALL the other teams bend to accommodate 2 teams....

[Grizzlies82]

I think the solution to a lot of problems is to just seed the entire field, but what do I know.


What you know is there can be a month long argument about who should be the #8 seed.
How many months would be required to determine the entire 24 teams in a 'proper' seeding.

[Reign of Terrier]

What you know is there can be a month long argument about who should be the #8 seed.
How many months would be required to determine the entire 24 teams in a 'proper' seeding.

It'll be easier to seed over time, because you quantify how good teams are better. Think about how in March Madness, the 12-13 seed is pretty predictable (midmajor, etc).

[uni88]

What you know is there can be a month long argument about who should be the #8 seed.
How many months would be required to determine the entire 24 teams in a 'proper' seeding.

You put the Big Sky teams in the 20's. They choked in the playoffs 10 years ago and don't deserve to be seeded any higher than that. :D

[Grizzlies82]

You put the Big Sky teams in the 20's. They choked in the playoffs 10 years ago and don't deserve to be seeded any higher than that. :D



Some years that might be about right. I think this year there are at least 3 of the 4 who can win games.
Still could you remind me how many times No. Iowa (or So. Dakota State, etc...) has beaten our Grizzlies in the playoffs? If needed I can give you a hint. :)
Let's just put the Big Sky teams in the low 20's and all other MVFC teams in mid-twenties. Problem solved.

[MacThor]

I don't think there are "a lot of problems" that need to be fixed. Regionalization isn't going away, so seeding the Top 8 and pairing the rest based on geography is fine. They already lose too much money on the first round games; they're not going to pile on additional travel expenses.

The main "problem" is the field is just Too. Damn. Big.

[uni88]

Some years that might be about right. I think this year there are at least 3 of the 4 who can win games.
Still could you remind me how many times No. Iowa (or So. Dakota State, etc...) has beaten our Grizzlies in the playoffs? If needed I can give you a hint. :)
Let's just put the Big Sky teams in the low 20's and all other MVFC teams in mid-twenties. Problem solved.

Do you see the green smiley face to the right of my words? That means that I was being sarcastic. I was trolling Drizzle of Terriers. But if it helps you sleep at night you can go ahead and give me that hint.

[cx500d]

You are a New Hampshire fan. Why are you posting in a thread about the playoffs?
Well, we won’t see you after round 1, maybe round 2 if you get a big fluffy team.

[Grizzlies82]

Do you see the green smiley face to the right of my words? That means that I was being sarcastic. I was trolling Drizzle of Terriers. But if it helps you sleep at night you can go ahead and give me that hint.


I understood. Still, just had to poke you. I'll sleep alright without going there, and there is no need to keep you up at night. :D

[R.A.]

Two things:

1) Having playoff games right around or shortly after Christmas would absolutely not work. You're comparing it to games scheduled months in advance allowing people to make plans, even holiday plans, around them. That isn't possible when you don't know when or where you'll be playing until 5 or 6 days prior to the game. Attendance would be brutal (as it is for Thanksgiving weekend playoff games for much the same reason) for key playoff games.

You know what Chaos, I could go all the way there with you. I'mma let it go. But, I know I'm right.

[MSUBobcat]

You know what Chaos, I could go all the way there with you. I'mma let it go. But, I know I'm right.

Careful..... you may get added to my signature....

(also... you're not right. Not only would attendance at the semifinal games be atrocious, but TV viewership would also suck on Dec. 28th due to being the same day as the "big boy" semifinal games going on that same day.)

[uni88]

Careful..... you may get added to my signature....

(also... you're not right. Not only would attendance at the semifinal games be atrocious, but TV viewership would also suck on Dec. 28th due to being the same day as the "big boy" semifinal games going on that same day.)

Home & visiting team attendance would suck more than normal (students would be gone for the holidays, locals would be distracted, visitors would be less likely to travel on short notice over the holidays, etc.). I think it would be worse than Thanksgiving.

[Reign of Terrier]

Do you see the green smiley face to the right of my words? That means that I was being sarcastic. I was trolling Drizzle of Terriers. But if it helps you sleep at night you can go ahead and give me that hint.

Come now, tinkle of Terriers is a much better smack name ;)

[uni88]

Come now, tinkle of Terriers is a much better smack name ;)

Drizzle is more of a synonym for Rain/Reign but I like tinkle better. Your Delta Tau Chi name is Terrier Tinkle.

You can ask your Dad about the Delta Tau Chi reference.

[putter]

The HBCU's sold their soul for the almighty dollar and a nice TV audience. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I would imagine that paycheck goes a long way. When Montana hosted Mississippi Valley St, in addition to the payout, they said they wanted something like $500 worth of protein powder as they needed it for their program. Budgets are tight everywhere. I am sure, if each side truly wanted to work it out it could. The IVY's have avoided the playoffs and I heard that, at that time, students would miss too much school. If this is correct, it is bogus. They have no problem letting their teams participate in March Madness, IMO, it is all about prestige and the FCS playoffs provide none of that for the IVY's

[NDSUKurt]

The HBCU's sold their soul for the almighty dollar and a nice TV audience. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I would imagine that paycheck goes a long way. When Montana hosted Mississippi Valley St, in addition to the payout, they said they wanted something like $500 worth of protein powder as they needed it for their program. Budgets are tight everywhere. I am sure, if each side truly wanted to work it out it could. The IVY's have avoided the playoffs and I heard that, at that time, students would miss too much school. If this is correct, it is bogus. They have no problem letting their teams participate in March Madness, IMO, it is all about prestige and the FCS playoffs provide none of that for the IVY's


Hearing that about the protein power is a shocker.

Mississippi Valley State often only plays 4 home games, all conference, because they need that guarantee money for their school. Their basketball program played something like 17 straight road games for the opening part of the season for the past 3 years to get the money they need.

You sure are correct about the HBCU's. There have been stories that HBCU's will bus their teams over 16 hours instead of flying as it saves a lot on travel costs. Many of the teams will only play FBS payday games and then Division 2,3, NAIA, or other non-counters in order to save money when filling out their schedule. With the exception of a few Universities, most are more focused on playing other HBCU's and earning as much money as they can.

[Reign of Terrier]

So I googled the distance between both Furman and Wofford and Clarksville (where Austin Peay plays) and it's right at the 400 mile limit, right at 390ish for each.

Kennesaw will also be close to them, as would SC state. Everyone else is a flight away.

Given that, and the reality that most/all of the MVFC and Big Sky schools will be flights, I think we will see one of three scenarios:

1) Wofford gets a seed and plays the winner of Furman and KSU/AP/SC State

2) Wofford doesn't get a seed and Wofford/Furman each play 2 of KSU/AP/SC State

3) Wofford doesn't get a seed and Wofford/Furman plays one of KSU/AP/SC State while the other gets shipped out west.


I would have to see who the closest teams are to AP, but I really wouldn't be surprised if they get bracketed with the socon team and get put in the JMU bracket or a hypothetical Wofford bracket.

Regardless of the match up there will be lots of flights this year

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[R.A.]

Careful..... you may get added to my signature....

(also... you're not right. Not only would attendance at the semifinal games be atrocious, but TV viewership would also suck on Dec. 28th due to being the same day as the "big boy" semifinal games going on that same day.)

FCS Postseason viewership is already abysmal, or am I missing something?

And if you all can't see that there is something wrong with the NCAA Football Postseason format, simply by the fact that the FBS decided to manage their own, and now additionally by the FCS HBCUs doing similarly; then it is obvious too me, that you all would rather be comfortably broke in the post-season; rather than allow for changes for the better.

-The entire FCS could have end of the season rivalry games, conference championships, and Bowl games also, in addition to the FCS Playoffs; in a similar fashion if you want too... . But, it just seems spiteful to attempt to force HBCUs to change our cultural traditions; in order to compete for a FCS National Title.

But, it's okay. "The Past is Prologue." Despite all of the schemes being played, (even this year with the rankings and SC State), one day again, you all WILL have to contend with HBCUs winning your FCS National Title, while simultaneously dealing with HBCUs competing in Traditional HBCU Contests that out perform the other top FCS Games, whether it's the Celebration Bowl, Bayou Classic, SWAC Title Game, Florida Classic, Turkey Day Classic, Magic City Classic, "on and on, and on and on..."

-And if you all aren't careful, one day you may have to contend with the fact that the Celebration Bowl, not only dominates the FCS National Title Game in viewership and attendance, but sooner or later; the competition of the Celebration Bowl will also be better than the FCS National Title game, and many won't take the FCS Title seriously because they'll know the HBCU National Title will be more dominant.... It's already happening again, the top MEAC HBCUs are either ineligible of Post Season participation (FAMU), or will likely go to the Celebration Bowl (A&T). If SC State makes the FCS Playoffs and wins a game or two; everyone will still say "Yeah, but FAMU and A&T were better," which makes your other FCS Conferences look weaker by comparison.

-IT BENEFITS THE NCAA AND THE ENTIRE FCS BY MAKING THE ADJUSTMENTS NECESSARY TO FULLY INCLUDE HBCU TRADITIONAL/ CULTURAL GAMES , AND ALLOW OUR AUTOMATIC BIDS SWAC & MEAC, INTO THE FCS PLAYOFFS.


Starve yourselves to spite us all you want, but we aren't going hungry over here. 28-13, SC State over Wofford. Many publications ranked the MEAC as the 9th ranked FCS Conference, and the SoCon as the 4th... How are those rankings looking now?

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/ncf/id/26887248

Include our champs and include our games FULLY, or you'll regret it later when it's too late. Because either way, (And this is for you MSUBobcat), check the sig...

[CHIP72]

I don't think there are "a lot of problems" that need to be fixed. Regionalization isn't going away, so seeding the Top 8 and pairing the rest based on geography is fine. They already lose too much money on the first round games; they're not going to pile on additional travel expenses.

The main "problem" is the field is just Too. Damn. Big.

The NCAA Basketball Tournament has 68 teams competing out of 351 total D1 teams. That’s a little less than 20% of the teams in the classification.

The FCS/DI-AA Football Championship has 24 teams competing out of 126 total FCS teams. That’s a little less than 20% of the teams in the classification.

The issue isn’t the number of teams in the playoffs. The fact some conferences (looking at you Ivy League) don’t compete in the playoffs is the bigger issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Professor Chaos]

So I googled the distance between both Furman and Wofford and Clarksville (where Austin Peay plays) and it's right at the 400 mile limit, right at 390ish for each.

Kennesaw will also be close to them, as would SC state. Everyone else is a flight away.

Given that, and the reality that most/all of the MVFC and Big Sky schools will be flights, I think we will see one of three scenarios:

1) Wofford gets a seed and plays the winner of Furman and KSU/AP/SC State

2) Wofford doesn't get a seed and Wofford/Furman each play 2 of KSU/AP/SC State

3) Wofford doesn't get a seed and Wofford/Furman plays one of KSU/AP/SC State while the other gets shipped out west.


I would have to see who the closest teams are to AP, but I really wouldn't be surprised if they get bracketed with the socon team and get put in the JMU bracket or a hypothetical Wofford bracket.

Regardless of the match up there will be lots of flights this year

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
The committee does not set seeds or select at-larges based on geography. I already covered it in the 'Selections 101' thread but that is a narrative that just doesn't add up if you understand their process of setting the field and building the bracket.

Having said that I readily admit that politics could come into play if after their initial seed vote/poll 7 of the top 8 are from 2 conferences and that they may try to throw someone from another conference, like Wofford, a bone. But that has more to do with optics than geography or saving money.

[Reign of Terrier]

The committee does not set seeds or select at-larges based on geography. I already covered it in the 'Selections 101' thread but that is a narrative that just doesn't add up if you understand their process of setting the field and building the bracket.

Having said that I readily admit that politics could come into play if after their initial seed vote/poll 7 of the top 8 are from 2 conferences and that they may try to throw someone from another conference, like Wofford, a bone. But that has more to do with optics than geography or saving money.


Weird, I didn't claim in this post that the committee seeds or selects at-large based on geography. My simple claim was that one those 3 scenarios are what I see happening.

All I'm saying is that they're going to be a lot of flights and Wofford/Furman vs (KSU/AP/SC State) are going to be one of the few busable games (I think KSU and AP will get in FWIW) so I have it at a high probability that at least one of Wofford/Furman will play KSU/AP, but the details really matter pending on 1) how the committee treats Wofford and 2) other teams in driving proximity to AP/Kennesaw (which I don't think there are many).

I would imagine one of those brackets would be matched up with JMU because 3/4 teams are within 400 miles of Harrisonburg I think. There's a lot of flights going on this year.

[katss07]

FCS Postseason viewership is already abysmal, or am I missing something?

And if you all can't see that there is something wrong with the NCAA Football Postseason format, simply by the fact that the FBS decided to manage their own, and now additionally by the FCS HBCUs doing similarly; then it is obvious too me, that you all would rather be comfortably broke in the post-season; rather than allow for changes for the better.

-The entire FCS could have end of the season rivalry games, conference championships, and Bowl games also, in addition to the FCS Playoffs; in a similar fashion if you want too... . But, it just seems spiteful to attempt to force HBCUs to change our cultural traditions; in order to compete for a FCS National Title.

But, it's okay. "The Past is Prologue." Despite all of the schemes being played, (even this year with the rankings and SC State), one day again, you all WILL have to contend with HBCUs winning your FCS National Title, while simultaneously dealing with HBCUs competing in Traditional HBCU Contests that out perform the other top FCS Games, whether it's the Celebration Bowl, Bayou Classic, SWAC Title Game, Florida Classic, Turkey Day Classic, Magic City Classic, "on and on, and on and on..."

-And if you all aren't careful, one day you may have to contend with the fact that the Celebration Bowl, not only dominates the FCS National Title Game in viewership and attendance, but sooner or later; the competition of the Celebration Bowl will also be better than the FCS National Title game, and many won't take the FCS Title seriously because they'll know the HBCU National Title will be more dominant.... It's already happening again, the top MEAC HBCUs are either ineligible of Post Season participation (FAMU), or will likely go to the Celebration Bowl (A&T). If SC State makes the FCS Playoffs and wins a game or two; everyone will still say "Yeah, but FAMU and A&T were better," which makes your other FCS Conferences look weaker by comparison.

-IT BENEFITS THE NCAA AND THE ENTIRE FCS BY MAKING THE ADJUSTMENTS NECESSARY TO FULLY INCLUDE HBCU TRADITIONAL/ CULTURAL GAMES , AND ALLOW OUR AUTOMATIC BIDS SWAC & MEAC, INTO THE FCS PLAYOFFS.


Starve yourselves to spite us all you want, but we aren't going hungry over here. 28-13, SC State over Wofford. Many publications ranked the MEAC as the 9th ranked FCS Conference, and the SoCon as the 4th... How are those rankings looking now?

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/ncf/id/26887248

Include our champs and include our games FULLY, or you'll regret it later when it's too late. Because either way, (And this is for you MSUBobcat), check the sig...
Wow, that was really inspiring.

What is the MEACs record in the playoffs again? I don’t think we’ll regret not giving an AQ to a conference that hasn’t won a playoff game in...I don’t even know how long. Will this hBcU tAkEoVer happen before or after half of the schools shut down?

You can have the attendance. You can have the viewers. Doesn’t make the football any good.

[Professor Chaos]

Weird, I didn't claim in this post that the committee seeds or selects at-large based on geography. My simple claim was that one those 3 scenarios are what I see happening.

I know how the selection works, this is not my first rodeo. They select the seeds before they select at large bids, and the seeds are tailored based on what the committee sees as the top 8. They don't change based on outcomes.

From there, the committee selects the rest of the field. They then pair teams up based on geography and the other rules they have set. That includes pairing with the seedings based on geography, not outcomes.

All I'm saying is that they're going to be a lot of flights and Wofford/Furman vs (KSU/AP/SC State) are going to be one of the few busable games (I think KSU and AP will get in FWIW) so I have it at a high probability that at least one of Wofford/Furman will play KSU/AP, but the details really matter pending on 1) how the committee treats Wofford and 2) other teams in driving proximity to AP/Kennesaw (which I don't think there are many).

I would imagine one of those brackets would be matched up with JMU because 3/4 teams are within 400 miles of Harrisonburg I think. There's a lot of flights going on this year.
You sure you know how the selection works? Because the at-large bids are determined before the seeds are.

[Reign of Terrier]

You sure you know how the selection works? Because the at-large bids are determined before the seeds are.

You got me.

It's too early in the morning.

My point is there's a selection process of the teams that get in before they select seeds and before they create the field and my post didn't contradict that assumption.

[Professor Chaos]

You got me.

It's too early in the morning.

My point is there's a selection process of the teams that get in before they select seeds and before they create the field and my post didn't contradict that assumption.
Fair enough... I did misunderstand what you were trying to say in the original post I quoted so my bad there.

[Professor]

The MEAC and the SWAC have decided to do their own thing. More power to them.
I just don't see any point in needing to include their also-rans in the NCAA playoffs.
Give those at-large spots to teams from conferences that are committed to being in the playoffs.

Why not just do a 4 conf all teams in playoff and the best becomes FCS Champ.

Big Sky , MVFC, CAA and Southern

Seems like it could end all this dialogue

[Professor]

Two things:

1) Having playoff games right around or shortly after Christmas would absolutely not work. You're comparing it to games scheduled months in advance allowing people to make plans, even holiday plans, around them. That isn't possible when you don't know when or where you'll be playing until 5 or 6 days prior to the game. Attendance would be brutal (as it is for Thanksgiving weekend playoff games for much the same reason) for key playoff games.

2) You can put your victim card back in your pocket with the "How many ways are you going to say 'We don't want HBCUs in our post-season'?" comment. It's clear what the regular season scheduling guidelines are for postseason eligibility and 12 out of the 13 FCS conferences meet them. If the SWAC does not want to meet those guidelines that's their prerogative to decide but the majority rules in this scenario. If they'd rather maintain their traditional games/schedule that's fine but don't act like you're being fleeced when it's the choice you made.


To your 2nd point , you actually can. SCSU meets the scheduling criteria , beat the Southern Conference Champ and still won't make the playoffs due to some reason. But yea , it's nothing lol

[Professor]

The HBCU's sold their soul for the almighty dollar and a nice TV audience. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I would imagine that paycheck goes a long way. When Montana hosted Mississippi Valley St, in addition to the payout, they said they wanted something like $500 worth of protein powder as they needed it for their program. Budgets are tight everywhere. I am sure, if each side truly wanted to work it out it could. The IVY's have avoided the playoffs and I heard that, at that time, students would miss too much school. If this is correct, it is bogus. They have no problem letting their teams participate in March Madness, IMO, it is all about prestige and the FCS playoffs provide none of that for the IVY's

Geez.,..... I guess your not going to provide a source for this huh? You pay a school 250K plus and you claim they asked you for an additional 500 buck of a product. Lol ok

[Professor]

Hearing that about the protein power is a shocker.

Mississippi Valley State often only plays 4 home games, all conference, because they need that guarantee money for their school. Their basketball program played something like 17 straight road games for the opening part of the season for the past 3 years to get the money they need.

You sure are correct about the HBCU's. There have been stories that HBCU's will bus their teams over 16 hours instead of flying as it saves a lot on travel costs. Many of the teams will only play FBS payday games and then Division 2,3, NAIA, or other non-counters in order to save money when filling out their schedule. With the exception of a few Universities, most are more focused on playing other HBCU's and earning as much money as they can.

Boy if this ain't the biggest propaganda i've ever seen.

Let me address this falsehoods.

1. Mississippi Valley plays home games in football against their conference rivals. Just like everyone else.

2. A lot of FCS schools play money games against FBS teams.

3. A lot of FCS HBCU's don't play FCS teams because they can't get a home and home. Home games make money , so why not take a 200 to 250K game against a FCS/FBS team. And then pay a D2 or lower team to come play at your stadium for 40k or less

4. All schools are about making as much money as possible

[MSUBobcat]

FCS Postseason viewership is already abysmal, or am I missing something?

And if you all can't see that there is something wrong with the NCAA Football Postseason format, simply by the fact that the FBS decided to manage their own, and now additionally by the FCS HBCUs doing similarly; then it is obvious too me, that you all would rather be comfortably broke in the post-season; rather than allow for changes for the better.

-The entire FCS could have end of the season rivalry games, conference championships, and Bowl games also, in addition to the FCS Playoffs; in a similar fashion if you want too... . But, it just seems spiteful to attempt to force HBCUs to change our cultural traditions; in order to compete for a FCS National Title.

But, it's okay. "The Past is Prologue." Despite all of the schemes being played, (even this year with the rankings and SC State), one day again, you all WILL have to contend with HBCUs winning your FCS National Title, while simultaneously dealing with HBCUs competing in Traditional HBCU Contests that out perform the other top FCS Games, whether it's the Celebration Bowl, Bayou Classic, SWAC Title Game, Florida Classic, Turkey Day Classic, Magic City Classic, "on and on, and on and on..."

-And if you all aren't careful, one day you may have to contend with the fact that the Celebration Bowl, not only dominates the FCS National Title Game in viewership and attendance, but sooner or later; the competition of the Celebration Bowl will also be better than the FCS National Title game, and many won't take the FCS Title seriously because they'll know the HBCU National Title will be more dominant.... It's already happening again, the top MEAC HBCUs are either ineligible of Post Season participation (FAMU), or will likely go to the Celebration Bowl (A&T). If SC State makes the FCS Playoffs and wins a game or two; everyone will still say "Yeah, but FAMU and A&T were better," which makes your other FCS Conferences look weaker by comparison.

-IT BENEFITS THE NCAA AND THE ENTIRE FCS BY MAKING THE ADJUSTMENTS NECESSARY TO FULLY INCLUDE HBCU TRADITIONAL/ CULTURAL GAMES , AND ALLOW OUR AUTOMATIC BIDS SWAC & MEAC, INTO THE FCS PLAYOFFS.


Starve yourselves to spite us all you want, but we aren't going hungry over here. 28-13, SC State over Wofford. Many publications ranked the MEAC as the 9th ranked FCS Conference, and the SoCon as the 4th... How are those rankings looking now?

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/ncf/id/26887248

Include our champs and include our games FULLY, or you'll regret it later when it's too late. Because either way, (And this is for you MSUBobcat), check the sig...

You clearly ARE missing something. The NCAA isn't forcing HBCU's to not participate. There's no conspiracy against them. Like the Ivies, participate if you want, don't participate if you want. We don't care. Just don't ask the schools of TEN other conferences with ~100 teams to change what THEY DO to allow for 2 cultural games. Do you want to share the purse from those games with the playoff participants that have to wait for you guys to decide you're free to play some football? Would the HBCU's be willing to move the Celebration Bowl to the same week as the Bayou Classic, or do we have to not only push the start of the playoffs back, but then also take a week off in between the quarterfinal and semifinal round?

Really hanging your hat on that SC State over Wofford victory. Is that your main support that the MEAC rises? If Norfolk beats them this week, and MSU beat NSU like a drum, does that make us the de facto MEAC champs? I have a feeling we'll be bounced by the quarterfinals this year, so we'd sure like that MEAC-champ invite to the Celebration Bowl....

I really doubt the FCS will regret that the SWAC and MEAC (and Ivies) don't participate in the playoffs. It's not exactly a new revelation....

[Professor Chaos]

To your 2nd point , you actually can. SCSU meets the scheduling criteria , beat the Southern Conference Champ and still won't make the playoffs due to some reason. But yea , it's nothing lol
The "some reason" would be that their resume isn't up to snuff, in the eyes of the selection committee, with teams that did make the field. Samford beat Wofford the week after SCSU did and won't sniff the playoff field. You can argue that beating Bethune-Cookman is a good win but they're ranked 92nd in the FCS by Massey and SCSU's other 4 FCS wins aren't even in the top 100. Beating Wofford was good, SCSU wouldn't even be in the conversation without it, but if they're left out there's plenty of reasoning to justify it other than MEAC bias.

[Professor]

The "some reason" would be that their resume isn't up to snuff, in the eyes of the selection committee, with teams that did make the field. Samford beat Wofford the week after SCSU did and won't sniff the playoff field. You can argue that beating Bethune-Cookman is a good win but they're ranked 92nd in the FCS by Massey and SCSU's other 4 FCS wins aren't even in the top 100. Beating Wofford was good, SCSU wouldn't even be in the conversation without it, but if they're left out there's plenty of reasoning to justify it other than MEAC bias.

at the end of the season Samford is 5-7 , SCSU is 8-3............

But yeah continue your argument lol

[Professor]

You clearly ARE missing something. The NCAA isn't forcing HBCU's to not participate. There's no conspiracy against them. Like the Ivies, participate if you want, don't participate if you want. We don't care. Just don't ask the schools of TEN other conferences with ~100 teams to change what THEY DO to allow for 2 cultural games. Do you want to share the purse from those games with the playoff participants that have to wait for you guys to decide you're free to play some football? Would the HBCU's be willing to move the Celebration Bowl to the same week as the Bayou Classic, or do we have to not only push the start of the playoffs back, but then also take a week off in between the quarterfinal and semifinal round?

Really hanging your hat on that SC State over Wofford victory. Is that your main support that the MEAC rises? If Norfolk beats them this week, and MSU beat NSU like a drum, does that make us the de facto MEAC champs? I have a feeling we'll be bounced by the quarterfinals this year, so we'd sure like that MEAC-champ invite to the Celebration Bowl....

I really doubt the FCS will regret that the SWAC and MEAC (and Ivies) don't participate in the playoffs. It's not exactly a new revelation....

Other than NDSU , The HBCU's and Ivy league schools have the most name recognition in FCS.

You can't build a FCS brand without them. And frankly , that's why it's not a larger platform now

[JayJ79]

Why not just do a 4 conf all teams in playoff and the best becomes FCS Champ.

Big Sky , MVFC, CAA and Southern

Seems like it could end all this dialogue
There are plenty of teams in those conferences that are unquestionably unworthy of playoff contention.
And there are usually a couple teams from the other conferences that are worthy.

limiting it to just a few conferences is something the lame FBS/BCS types do and not something worthy of an actual NCAA tournament.

[Professor Chaos]

at the end of the season Samford is 5-7 , SCSU is 8-3............

But yeah continue your argument lol
You're right. One of the committee's criteria is that having less than 6 D1 wins "may" (aka "will") put a team in jeopardy of being selected. Another criteria is strength of schedule. Another criteria is playing a full schedule of D1 opponents. SCSU isn't going to stack up too well on those latter two with many bubble teams.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

FCS Postseason viewership is already abysmal, or am I missing something?

And if you all can't see that there is something wrong with the NCAA Football Postseason format, simply by the fact that the FBS decided to manage their own, and now additionally by the FCS HBCUs doing similarly; then it is obvious too me, that you all would rather be comfortably broke in the post-season; rather than allow for changes for the better.

-The entire FCS could have end of the season rivalry games, conference championships, and Bowl games also, in addition to the FCS Playoffs; in a similar fashion if you want too... . But, it just seems spiteful to attempt to force HBCUs to change our cultural traditions; in order to compete for a FCS National Title.

But, it's okay. "The Past is Prologue." Despite all of the schemes being played, (even this year with the rankings and SC State), one day again, you all WILL have to contend with HBCUs winning your FCS National Title, while simultaneously dealing with HBCUs competing in Traditional HBCU Contests that out perform the other top FCS Games, whether it's the Celebration Bowl, Bayou Classic, SWAC Title Game, Florida Classic, Turkey Day Classic, Magic City Classic, "on and on, and on and on..."

-And if you all aren't careful, one day you may have to contend with the fact that the Celebration Bowl, not only dominates the FCS National Title Game in viewership and attendance, but sooner or later; the competition of the Celebration Bowl will also be better than the FCS National Title game, and many won't take the FCS Title seriously because they'll know the HBCU National Title will be more dominant.... It's already happening again, the top MEAC HBCUs are either ineligible of Post Season participation (FAMU), or will likely go to the Celebration Bowl (A&T). If SC State makes the FCS Playoffs and wins a game or two; everyone will still say "Yeah, but FAMU and A&T were better," which makes your other FCS Conferences look weaker by comparison.

-IT BENEFITS THE NCAA AND THE ENTIRE FCS BY MAKING THE ADJUSTMENTS NECESSARY TO FULLY INCLUDE HBCU TRADITIONAL/ CULTURAL GAMES , AND ALLOW OUR AUTOMATIC BIDS SWAC & MEAC, INTO THE FCS PLAYOFFS.


Starve yourselves to spite us all you want, but we aren't going hungry over here. 28-13, SC State over Wofford. Many publications ranked the MEAC as the 9th ranked FCS Conference, and the SoCon as the 4th... How are those rankings looking now?

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/ncf/id/26887248

Include our champs and include our games FULLY, or you'll regret it later when it's too late. Because either way, (And this is for you MSUBobcat), check the sig...

Put the drugs away.....lol

[kalm]

at the end of the season Samford is 5-7 , SCSU is 8-3............

But yeah continue your argument lol

Speaking of Samford and Massey rankings, there are 19 DII teams rated above Samford. The problem for the MEAC and SoCon is incestous. How many quality wins outside of those two conferences does either have? The Citadel over GT is the only one I can think of. Maybe NCA&T over a middling Elon?

[Bison56]

They take their ball and go home and then complain no one wants to play with them. xcoffeex Same **** different year.xdeadhorsex

[Professor]

You're right. One of the committee's criteria is that having less than 6 D1 wins "may" (aka "will") put a team in jeopardy of being selected. Another criteria is strength of schedule. Another criteria is playing a full schedule of D1 opponents. SCSU isn't going to stack up too well on those latter two with many bubble teams.

SCSU will have 7 FCS wins come Sat

They played a FCS " power " , a D2 and a FBS school.

So SCSU is the only FCS team in playoff contention that played a D2 ?

[Professor]

They take their ball and go home and then complain no one wants to play with them. xcoffeex Same **** different year.xdeadhorsex

Not really , just showing your damned if you do and your damned if you don't

A&T beat JSU in Birmingham last year and it was all these excuses

SCSU beats #7 Wofford and its because they were trying out a new offense.

I think SCSU should get in. If not , its ok.

But let's be clear. Who is really gonna beat NDSU this year? we are just here debating

[Professor Chaos]

SCSU will have 7 FCS wins come Sat

They played a FCS " power " , a D2 and a FBS school.

So SCSU is the only FCS team in playoff contention that played a D2 ?
No they're not but it's sure not going to help the teams that did like Kennesaw St and Furman. I don't think SCSU will be clearly in or out with a win over NSU on Saturday. I put my thoughts in "The Bubble" thread but I think it boils down to 5 bids up for grabs. If Towson and Albany both win they each take one. In the unlikely event that SIU or UT Martin win they'd each take one. That could shrink the bubble all the way down to 1 spot although 3 seems more likely and as many as 5 is possible. SCSU will be jumbled amongst teams like Furman, UND, Kennesaw St, SIU (if they lose to NDSU), SELA (if they lose to Nicholls), and maybe even a few wildcards like a 7-5 Maine and Chattanooga for those likely 3 spots.

[Reign of Terrier]

God damn it I hate Samford xlolx