Six teams. Two conferences. How do you rank them?

[MTfan4life]

Weber State, Montana, and Sacramento State all went 1-1 against each other. South Dakota State, Illinois State, and Northern Iowa also went 1-1 against each other. How do you separate who's better than who?

Personally, I would say:
Weber State - win over Northern Iowa is a big part of this. Also, they're the only one of the three to have their win on the road.
Montana - non-con win over Monmouth trumps Sac's non-con win over Northern Colorado
Sacramento State - Having two FBS games and a lower division took away a shot at a decent non-con victory.

AND
South Dakota State - most dominating win of the 3
Illinois State - second best win is over SIU
Northern Iowa - second best win is over? South Dakota?

How do these six sit in your minds? Also, how would you rank them together?

I might say
Weber
SDSU
Montana
Sac State
Illinois State
Northern Iowa

It's weird struggling looking for quality wins regarding teams in the valley. Usually any Valley win is quality, but the bottom 5 are all looking pretty putrid in comparison to prior seasons. .

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

As of now IMO: taking out NDSU and JMU which are 1 and 2


3. Montana
4. Sac State
5. Ill State
6. SDSU
7. Weber
8. UNI

I think Sac State's non counter win will hurt. Although I wouldn't argue switching Sac State and Montana.

[Professor Chaos]

I bet no two answers are going to be the same here. xlolx

Anyway, mine would be:

Montana
Weber St
SDSU
Sac St
Illinois St
UNI

[smilo]

I bet no two answers are going to be the same here. xlolx

Anyway, mine would be:

Montana
Weber St
SDSU
Sac St
Illinois St
UNI

I think I'm the same as you! :P I was tempted to try to put SDSU behind Illinois State, but whole body of work - I think they've been more impressive than Illinois State. So tough to say.

[dewey]

Here is my take....

#1 NDSU
#2 JMU
#3 Montana (good wins against seeded WSU and Monmouth potential good win over MSU)
#4 Weber State (Good wins against seeded Sacramento State and seeded UNI)
#5 Sacramento State (good win over Montana)
#6 SDSU (good win over UNI)
#7 UNI (good win over Illinois State)
#8 Illinois State (good win over SDSU)

It is hard with the 3 teams in 2 conferences going 1-1 against each other.

Dewey

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Ill State has a head/head win over SDSU and that trumps resume IMO.

IMO, Ill State if they beat Youngstown will be ranked above SDSU.

[Professor Chaos]

I think I'm the same as you! :P I was tempted to try to put SDSU behind Illinois State, but whole body of work - I think they've been more impressive than Illinois State. So tough to say.
Wow... either we're both thinking clearly of we're both completely insane.

For me when it comes down to comparing these teams who have all beat each other you can't get too caught up into who beat who head-to-head or you'll just spin yourself in circles. I see it as:

Montana: Most impressive win of the group over Weber St... very good win over Monmouth and one more D1 win than anyone else in this group.
Weber St: Only team with two wins over teams in this group (both by convincing margins) one of which on the road
SDSU: Great win over UNI, good win over SIU, and the best losses of the group (laugh and make your Moral Victory Football Conference jokes if you want)
Sac St: Great win over Montana, good win over Montana St, but lost convincingly at home to Weber and have less D1 wins than all in this group except UNI
Illinois St: Great over SDSU, decent win over SIU, but lost convincingly at home to UNI and have had some lackluster scoring margins against lesser teams
UNI: Great win over Illinois St but no other notable wins and the only team to lose 2 games to teams in this group

[dewey]

Here is Dom Izzo's take on the top 8.

Deweyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191117/4738fc6cb4f21d1a2d9e15c915ed0922.jpg

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[Chalupa Batman]

I bet no two answers are going to be the same here. xlolx

Anyway, mine would be:

Montana
Weber St
SDSU
Sac St
Illinois St
UNI

If I'm calculating correctly, there are 720 possible combinations!




For me when it comes down to comparing these teams who have all beat each other you can't get too caught up into who beat who head-to-head or you'll just spin yourself in circles.



Exactly. Each group of 3 is 1-1 against each other, so I think all you can really do is just rank the teams on who you think is the best, not on where they "deserve" to be ranked.

I would rank them:
1. Montana
2. SDSU
3. Weber St.
4. Sac. State
5. UNI
6. Illinois St.

Of course, the only fair way to rank them probably would be to just draw their names out of a hat. xlolx

[mango433]

As an SDSU fan, I will gladly take 6 or 7 and avoid NDSU until Frisco.

Not that I’m saying they will get to Frisco, I just don’t want to go to Fargo.

[POD Knows]

As an SDSU fan, I will gladly take 6 or 7 and avoid NDSU until Frisco.

Not that I’m saying they will get to Frisco, I just don’t want to go to Fargo.Maybe you can go to JMU, worked out pretty well the last time.

[mango433]

Maybe you can go to JMU, worked out pretty well the last time.

Shh, that game never happened.

[Chalupa Batman]

As an SDSU fan, I will gladly take 6 or 7 and avoid NDSU until Frisco.

Not that I’m saying they will get to Frisco, I just don’t want to go to Fargo.

After today, that would likely mean going to Montana AND JMU before getting to Frisco. I'm not sure that's any more desirable than going to Fargo instead.

Right now I think they have as good a chance to slide into the 5 seed as 6 or 7.

[RabidRabbit]

Of the SDSU, UNI, IL ST group assuming no losses in next week's games by these three, you're into the total score line tie-breaker. In that the Jack's would be first, Uni, 2nd and IL St 3rd. UNI has the most losses of the group, but all three should Be seeded teams. Weber St, Sac St, and Montana each round robined each other. So need to look beyond each other. Weber's win over UNI tips it in their favor. Then the head to head of the remaining two tip to Sac St. So, my projected seeds would likely be
1. NDSU
2. JMU
3.WEBER ST.
4.SDSU
5. SAC ST
6. MONTANA
7. IL ST
8. ???

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[Bohcat]

Where would you put Montana State in the mix if they beat the griz next week? They would also be 1-1 in that group and would have a Non-conference win (SEMO) over a ranked team.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Of the SDSU, UNI, IL ST group assuming no losses in next week's games by these three, you're into the total score line tie-breaker. In that the Jack's would be first, Uni, 2nd and IL St 3rd. UNI has the most losses of the group, but all three should Be seeded teams. Weber St, Sac St, and Montana each round robined each other. So need to look beyond each other. Weber's win over UNI tips it in their favor. Then the head to head of the remaining two tip to Sac St. So, my projected seeds would likely be
1. NDSU
2. JMU
3.WEBER ST.
4.SDSU
5. SAC ST
6. MONTANA
7. IL ST
8. ???

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No way Weber is the #3 over Montana with the Griz giving them a beat down yesterday. Now if the Griz lose to MSU then things definitely change. Montana at 10-2 is the #3 IMO.

- - - Updated - - -


Where would you put Montana State in the mix if they beat the griz next week? They would also be 1-1 in that group and would have a Non-conference win (SEMO) over a ranked team.


Good question.

Throw a dart?

:D

[Professor Chaos]

Where would you put Montana State in the mix if they beat the griz next week? They would also be 1-1 in that group and would have a Non-conference win (SEMO) over a ranked team.
Mentioned it in the Cat/Griz thread but this would really put the committee in a tough spot. Could be 4 Big Sky teams all at 9-3. I think the committee's poll ballots will be all over the place which could lead to some wierd seed placement. 4 seeds from the same conference has never happened before and it looks like both the Big Sky and MVFC could make that argument this year. Seems more likely that whoever the committee values highest out of the group of Monmouth, Central Arkansas, Wofford, CCSU, or Villanova probably gets a #7 or #8 seed in that scenario just to spread the wealth.

[cx500d]

Weber State, Montana, and Sacramento State all went 1-1 against each other. South Dakota State, Illinois State, and Northern Iowa also went 1-1 against each other. How do you separate who's better than who?

Personally, I would say:
Weber State - win over Northern Iowa is a big part of this. Also, they're the only one of the three to have their win on the road.
Montana - non-con win over Monmouth trumps Sac's non-con win over Northern Colorado
Sacramento State - Having two FBS games and a lower division took away a shot at a decent non-con victory.

AND
South Dakota State - most dominating win of the 3
Illinois State - second best win is over SIU
Northern Iowa - second best win is over? South Dakota?

How do these six sit in your minds? Also, how would you rank them together?

I might say
Weber
SDSU
Montana
Sac State
Illinois State
Northern Iowa

It's weird struggling looking for quality wins regarding teams in the valley. Usually any Valley win is quality, but the bottom 5 are all looking pretty putrid in comparison to prior seasons. .
Yeah, that win against Monmouth is looking pretty good now...

[cx500d]

Of the SDSU, UNI, IL ST group assuming no losses in next week's games by these three, you're into the total score line tie-breaker. In that the Jack's would be first, Uni, 2nd and IL St 3rd. UNI has the most losses of the group, but all three should Be seeded teams. Weber St, Sac St, and Montana each round robined each other. So need to look beyond each other. Weber's win over UNI tips it in their favor. Then the head to head of the remaining two tip to Sac St. So, my projected seeds would likely be
1. NDSU
2. JMU
3.WEBER ST.
4.SDSU
5. SAC ST
6. MONTANA
7. IL ST
8. ???

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3 and 6 should be reversed

[Herder]

So, I don’t think you can compare the top 3 in BSC teams to the 2,3,4 teams in the Valley. Put an 11-0 team in the BSC, then compare them.

[GreatGreatGreat]

3 and 6 should be reversed
Then Weber should be #5 ahead of Sac. We beat them at their place .

[Schism55]

Where would you put Montana State in the mix if they beat the griz next week? They would also be 1-1 in that group and would have a Non-conference win (SEMO) over a ranked team.
31217

[cx500d]

Then Weber should be #5 ahead of Sac. We beat them at their place .
That could be....it’s a hair split at some point.

[GreatGreatGreat]

That could be....it’s a hair split at some point.
No doubt, when it comes to seeding the top 3 in Big Sky someone is going to cry foul. I wouldn’t want to be the selection committee. Weber and Sac should win next saturday but you never know what will happen in the Brawl with Montana and Montana State. If MSU upsets Montana then it’s a 2 way tie between Weber and Sac with Weber owning the head to head. Still some important football to be played.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

The injuries to Weber St. affect my consideration as to where to rank them for a seed. A health Weber St. team is still a top 4 team, but I think they slide back a bit, even if they end up as the Big Sky Champ. You see this type of analytics in the NCAA tourney for bball seeding all the time.

[Thumper 76]

As an SDSU fan, I will gladly take 6 or 7 and avoid NDSU until Frisco.

Not that I’m saying they will get to Frisco, I just don’t want to go to Fargo.

I think I argued this last season, and probably will have to most years, but I would MUCH rather face ndsu in Fargo than in Frisco. Couple of reasons.

1) SDSU has already played in Fargo roughly 18,000,000,000,000,000 times in the last 5 years. Multiple times in the playoffs. SDSU has never played in Frisco. Familiarity breeds contempt but it also is good for the underdog in this fight. Either game is a home game for ndsu. I’d rather it be somewhere we’re used to playing.

2) There isn’t the lay-off and media craziness leading into a quarter or semi final game. SDSU would not be used to the build up and pressure of a national championship game compared to the playoff games they’ve been in more than once against ndsu. I’m not sure how well they handle the layover, but I certainly don’t want to be facing the team that’s done it 7 times before if were doing it.

3) SDSU has actually beaten ndsu in Fargo. Maybe not the playoffs, but we have done it. Ndsu has never lost in Frisco. It’s already a home game and a bison party, but it’s somewhere they definitely don’t lose. They have lost in the dome in the playoffs.

4) As mentioned above, the opposite side of the bracket likely sends us to JMU and either Montana or Weber probably, and we haven’t had great luck going to Montana either. Fargo is a short familiar road trip that is likely easier on the team. But I would rather be on the side of the bracket with the 1 seed and be facing the 4 as the other road trip than the 2 and 3 seeds as it sits right now.

5) This is purely because I’m selfish. I want to see the look on ndsu fans faces when we deny them the trip to Frisco, blaring “If You wanna Play In Texas” with my windows down as I leave the stadium. I want them to feel the agony we’ve felt for the last how many times now. Plus, tickets to the natty would be a steal.

In the end for me it comes down to familiarity, familiarity, and more familiarity. With a dash of selfishness and pride xlolx But

[mvemjsunpx]

Here is Dom Izzo's take on the top 8.

Deweyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191117/4738fc6cb4f21d1a2d9e15c915ed0922.jpg




Villanova shouldn't be anywhere near the top-8.

[mvemjsunpx]

1. Sac State - Thomson's back, so no apparent worries there.
2. Montana - They have 2 really good wins now, but a loss to the Bobcats could still drop them to 4th. in the Big Sky pecking order.
3. South Dakota St. - It looked like the Gibbs injury was gonna derail them, but they turned that around yesterday.
4. Weber St. - They appear to have the biggest injury concerns now, but they did beat UNI.
5. Northern Iowa - They're the best 4-loss team in FCS, but it's still hard to rank them any higher with 4 losses.
6. Illinois St. - They're basically Weber with a weaker non-conference schedule.

[X-Factor]

1. Sac State - Thomson's back, so no apparent worries there.
2. Montana - They have 2 really good wins now, but a loss to the Bobcats could still drop them to 4th. in the Big Sky pecking order.
3. South Dakota St. - It looked like the Gibbs injury was gonna derail them, but they turned that around yesterday.
4. Weber St. - They appear to have the biggest injury concerns now, but they did beat UNI.
5. Northern Iowa - They're the best 4-loss team in FCS, but it's still hard to rank them any higher with 4 losses.
6. Illinois St. - They're basically Weber with a weaker non-conference schedule.

3, Montana - possibly 10 wins
4. Weber - injured and might go down easy, but best wins of group
5. ISUr - won on the road at sdsu, but a few blowout losses. Could be jacks here
6. Sac - Thomson back, good resume but 1 less win with lower div win
7. Sdsu- had most favorable schedule, is Long Island considered d1 yet? I’m thinking no. In that case they are stuck at 7
8. CCSU - give the dog a bone. They had a great season

[Redbird 4th & short]

Dont rule out Montana St .. theyre up to 8-3 against a decent SOS. I would put them clearly ahead of Towson, Monmouth, Villanova .. in that order. And just as clearly in contention with 7-4 UNI and 8-3 ISUr for sure. So IMO, that is basically the top 12, and i see 9 of the 12 teams vying for top 8 thru game 11.

CCSU is #27 on Massey Composite .. can 39 different computers be so wrong ??

[SactoHornetFan]

Here's the thing when it comes to splitting the three-way if all three end up 7-1: SAC has the best win in the three games by 27 points. Hell, after spotting UM the opening TD, the Hornets proceeded to outscore the Grizzlies 49-15 over the next 56 minutes of the game. And that included 5 scores of 75 yard drives or more!

Montana bought a win against Monmouth...no way in hell the Griz would ever travel to West Long Branch, NJ. We tried our best to schedule a D-I counter in the opener...but that got all screwed up (the timing) with the firing of Jody Sears. We even reached out to LIU because it would count as a D-I game with their moveup (since they don't have a waiting period because they merged their football program into the established D-I athletic dept in Brooklyn).

And in case anyone wants to know the score differential in the game Weber beat SAC and the Griz beat Weber, it was 19 points.

Not to mention, no one in the history of the Big Sky Conference since 1996 had ever beaten EWU, MSU and UM in successive weeks. That's how impressive this Hornets team is!

[Silenoz]

Meh, Weber got some garbage time TDs, one as the clock was basically running out.

But Sac does have a very good case for #3.

[Grizalltheway]

Here's the thing when it comes to splitting the three-way if all three end up 7-1: SAC has the best win in the three games by 27 points. Hell, after spotting UM the opening TD, the Hornets proceeded to outscore the Grizzlies 49-15 over the next 56 minutes of the game. And that included 5 scores of 75 yard drives or more!

Montana bought a win against Monmouth...no way in hell the Griz would ever travel to West Long Branch, NJ. We tried our best to schedule a D-I counter in the opener...but that got all screwed up (the timing) with the firing of Jody Sears. We even reached out to LIU because it would count as a D-I game with their moveup (since they don't have a waiting period because they merged their football program into the established D-I athletic dept in Brooklyn).

And in case anyone wants to know the score differential in the game Weber beat SAC and the Griz beat Weber, it was 19 points.

Not to mention, no one in the history of the Big Sky Conference since 1996 had ever beaten EWU, MSU and UM in successive weeks. That's how impressive this Hornets team is!

What a load of horse****...

[Professor Chaos]

Here's the thing when it comes to splitting the three-way if all three end up 7-1: SAC has the best win in the three games by 27 points. Hell, after spotting UM the opening TD, the Hornets proceeded to outscore the Grizzlies 49-15 over the next 56 minutes of the game. And that included 5 scores of 75 yard drives or more!

Montana bought a win against Monmouth...no way in hell the Griz would ever travel to West Long Branch, NJ. We tried our best to schedule a D-I counter in the opener...but that got all screwed up (the timing) with the firing of Jody Sears. We even reached out to LIU because it would count as a D-I game with their moveup (since they don't have a waiting period because they merged their football program into the established D-I athletic dept in Brooklyn).

And in case anyone wants to know the score differential in the game Weber beat SAC and the Griz beat Weber, it was 19 points.

Not to mention, no one in the history of the Big Sky Conference since 1996 had ever beaten EWU, MSU and UM in successive weeks. That's how impressive this Hornets team is!
Scoring differential is a silly metric to use in the games between those 3. Weber St scored 2 garbage TDs against Montana the 2nd of which was with 14 seconds left in the game. All 3 were won comfortably, that's all you need to say.

[SactoHornetFan]

What a load of horse****...

Truth hurts...when's your return game along the Jersey shore...I'll wait for your answer. Oh wait...there isn't: https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/montana/

[Grizalltheway]

Truth hurts...when's your return game along the Jersey shore...I'll wait for your answer. Oh wait...there isn't: https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/montana/

What does that have to do with the game on the field?

[SactoHornetFan]

Scoring differential is a silly metric to use in the games between those 3. Weber St scored 2 garbage TDs against Montana the 2nd of which was with 14 seconds left in the game. All 3 were won comfortably, that's all you need to say.

Well how else do you split the hairs then? At some point, you have to rank between the three of them in how they played against each other.

[SactoHornetFan]

What does that have to do with the game on the field?

You dang well know how that plays out on the field in your stadium...

[Grizalltheway]

You dang well know how that plays out on the field in your stadium...
We also "bought" a win against NDSU in '03. How did that work out for us?

[Professor Chaos]

Well how else do you split the hairs then? At some point, you have to rank between the three of them in how they played against each other.
I don't get too caught up with who beat who when the logic is that circular, I look at what they did outside of those games. I posted my thoughts earlier in the thread:



Montana: Most impressive win of the group over Weber St... very good win over Monmouth and one more D1 win than anyone else in this group.
Weber St: Only team with two wins over teams in this group (both by convincing margins) one of which on the road
SDSU: Great win over UNI, good win over SIU, and the best losses of the group (laugh and make your Moral Victory Football Conference jokes if you want)
Sac St: Great win over Montana, good win over Montana St, but lost convincingly at home to Weber and have less D1 wins than all in this group except UNI
Illinois St: Great over SDSU, decent win over SIU, but lost convincingly at home to UNI and have had some lackluster scoring margins against lesser teams
UNI: Great win over Illinois St but no other notable wins and the only team to lose 2 games to teams in this group
I actually changed my mind on this at some point between Saturday night when I posted it and Sunday when I put my poll ballot together. I switched around Sac St and SDSU so Sac St was 3rd in the group and SDSU was 4th.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I don't get too caught up with who beat who when the logic is that circular, I look at what they did outside of those games. I posted my thoughts earlier in the thread:


I actually changed my mind on this at some point between Saturday night when I posted it and Sunday when I put my poll ballot together. I switched around Sac St and SDSU so Sac St was 3rd in the group and SDSU was 4th.
this !!! people lose sight of this so easily. It's not just head to head, unless you are truly in a "tie breaker situation" and can't decide between 2 or 3 teams, because their results over all 12 games are so even. It is why SC State beating Wofford in week 1 isn't enough to push them into playoffs. By end of season, there are 11 other games to consider in addition to a week 1 game.

[Silenoz]

Truth hurts...when's your return game along the Jersey shore...I'll wait for your answer. Oh wait...there isn't: https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/montana/
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying about the Monmouth game. It shouldn't count towards SOS because there's no return game?

[SactoHornetFan]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying about the Monmouth game. It shouldn't count towards SOS because there's no return game?

What Im saying is schedules are set years in advance. And sometimes when you have coaching changes and there might be still an open date left to fill as you get closer to that year, it might not be possible (in SAC's case) to fill it with another D-I opponent (which happened this year because Sears never filled our opening date for 2019 early). You can only play the schedule you have. And we were in our two FBS games well into the 4th quarter this year. And the conference also put EWU, MSU and UM all in a row for us to open league play. Looking at historical records with those three programs, that was a daunting task on paper. Yet look what we did. No one has beaten those three programs, and by major whippings, in three straight weeks since the conference alignment after BSU, UI and even NEV left in the 1990's.

[uofmman1122]

What Im saying is schedules are set years in advance. And sometimes when you have coaching changes and there might be still an open date left to fill as you get closer to that year, it might not be possible (in SAC's case) to fill it with another D-I opponent (which happened this year because Sears never filled our opening date for 2019 early). You can only play the schedule you have. And we were in our two FBS games well into the 4th quarter this year. And the conference also put EWU, MSU and UM all in a row for us to open league play. Looking at historical records with those three programs, that was a daunting task on paper. Yet look what we did. No one has beaten those three programs, and by major whippings, in three straight weeks since the conference alignment after BSU, UI and even NEV left in the 1990's.
But what does this have to do with Monmouth??? xeyebrowx

[Bohcat]

Here's the thing when it comes to splitting the three-way if all three end up 7-1: SAC has the best win in the three games by 27 points. Hell, after spotting UM the opening TD, the Hornets proceeded to outscore the Grizzlies 49-15 over the next 56 minutes of the game. And that included 5 scores of 75 yard drives or more!

Montana bought a win against Monmouth...no way in hell the Griz would ever travel to West Long Branch, NJ. We tried our best to schedule a D-I counter in the opener...but that got all screwed up (the timing) with the firing of Jody Sears. We even reached out to LIU because it would count as a D-I game with their moveup (since they don't have a waiting period because they merged their football program into the established D-I athletic dept in Brooklyn).

And in case anyone wants to know the score differential in the game Weber beat SAC and the Griz beat Weber, it was 19 points.

Not to mention, no one in the history of the Big Sky Conference since 1996 had ever beaten EWU, MSU and UM in successive weeks. That's how impressive this Hornets team is!

You buy a win against North Alabama (Or Norfolk State), not a team that is a playoff contender. Besides the fact that your logic here makes zero sense.

Get more people to come to home games?

[SactoHornetFan]

You buy a win against North Alabama (Or Norfolk State), not a team that is a playoff contender. Besides the fact that your logic here makes zero sense.

Get more people to come to home games?

So at the time the game was scheduled in June 2017 (https://missoulacurrent.com/sports/2017/06/montana-football-2019-fcs-football/?print=print), Monmouth was coming off a 4-7 season. Not really the world beaters at the time that would be considered a playoff contender for 2019...the same could be said about us in 2019 after last year.

My point still stands that when games are scheduled for the future, you also need to factor at the time the game is scheduled how does that opponent look then. And in June of 2017, it looks like a bought win for Montana. YMMV

[Grizalltheway]

So at the time the game was scheduled in June 2017 (https://missoulacurrent.com/sports/2017/06/montana-football-2019-fcs-football/?print=print), Monmouth was coming off a 4-7 season. Not really the world beaters at the time that would be considered a playoff contender for 2019...the same could be said about us in 2019 after last year.

My point still stands that when games are scheduled for the future, you also need to factor at the time the game is schedule how does that opponent look then. And in June of 2017, it looks like a bought win for Montana. YMMV

But the reality of the situation is they are a pretty good FCS team this year, so your complaint has no bearing on evaluating MT's SOS this year.

[SactoHornetFan]

But the reality of the situation is they are a pretty good FCS team this year, so your complaint has no bearing on evaluating MT's SOS this year.

My complaint is: is this what Montana fans are using to justify being seeded higher than SAC? I get where MU is with their schedule...but scheduling choices are set far in advance, its hard to predict how someone maybe at that point. My guess is because Montana was coming off some lean years in 2017 when this was scheduled, it would be viewed as D-I that would help them to get into the playoffs, not necessarily for seeding.

Im just happy to be in the position finally to have these fun arguments. Griz fans know how long its been for us...a lot of that had to due previous administrations not funding the program properly 25 years ago when the jump came. And a lot of that has to do with finding the right coaches. Boy we sure have a great staff with Troy Taylor and Co.

[uni88]

My complaint is: is this what Montana fans are using to justify being seeded higher than SAC? I get where MU is with their schedule...but scheduling choices are set far in advance, its hard to predict how someone maybe at that point. My guess is because Montana was coming off some lean years in 2017 when this was scheduled, it would be viewed as D-I that would help them to get into the playoffs, not necessarily for seeding.

Im just happy to be in the position finally to have these fun arguments. Griz fans know how long its been for us...a lot of that had to due previous administrations not funding the program properly 25 years ago when the jump came. And a lot of that has to do with finding the right coaches. Boy we sure have a great staff with Troy Taylor and Co.

So you want to punish Montana by taking away a quality win because when they scheduled the game they "probably" thought they were going to be a cupcake?

[Bohcat]

My complaint is: is this what Montana fans are using to justify being seeded higher than SAC? I get where MU is with their schedule...but scheduling choices are set far in advance, its hard to predict how someone maybe at that point. My guess is because Montana was coming off some lean years in 2017 when this was scheduled, it would be viewed as D-I that would help them to get into the playoffs, not necessarily for seeding.

Im just happy to be in the position finally to have these fun arguments. Griz fans know how long its been for us...a lot of that had to due previous administrations not funding the program properly 25 years ago when the jump came. And a lot of that has to do with finding the right coaches. Boy we sure have a great staff with Troy Taylor and Co.

That makes sense, but I am with gatw, it doesn't change the argument of their SOS. They ended up a good team no matter how they got there. Would you then not punish a team who scheduled a Top 10 opponent a few years in advance only to have them struggle by the time they played them? Count it as a quality win because they "were really good" when we scheduled them.

[Catbooster]

So at the time the game was scheduled in June 2017 (https://missoulacurrent.com/sports/2017/06/montana-football-2019-fcs-football/?print=print), Monmouth was coming off a 4-7 season. Not really the world beaters at the time that would be considered a playoff contender for 2019...the same could be said about us in 2019 after last year.

My point still stands that when games are scheduled for the future, you also need to factor at the time the game is scheduled how does that opponent look then. And in June of 2017, it looks like a bought win for Montana. YMMV
I doubt they are trying to forecast who will be a cupcake 5 years ahead. I suspect that they are primarily looking for a team willing to get paid for a one time trip without a return trip and who has a date they can work with.

Most schools with high enough attendance try to get at least 6 home games, which generally means paying someone for a one-off. Most also want an all DI schedule for playoff consideration (or they would simply schedule a DII and save a little money). I don't think that's easy to do and at the same time make sure you're bringing in an easy win.

Hopefully, you will be able to sustain the success you're having this year and get your attendance up there too so you can have the same problem. Good luck.

[SactoHornetFan]

That makes sense, but I am with gatw, it doesn't change the argument of their SOS. They ended up a good team no matter how they got there. Would you then not punish a team who scheduled a Top 10 opponent a few years in advance only to have them struggle by the time they played them? Count it as a quality win because they "were really good" when we scheduled them.

If it's SOS we are talking about, our SOS was indicated as the toughest in Big Sky in the preseason. And then look at what we did. Everyone was predicting that we'd have 3 wins, 4 at best all year.

[Bohcat]

If it's SOS we are talking about, our SOS was indicated as the toughest in Big Sky in the preseason. And then look at what we did. Everyone was predicting that we'd have 3 wins, 4 at best all year.

This is a completely different point from what you were originally trying to say. I don't think anyone is taking away how impressive a season the Hornets have had this year.
Your original point of knocking the griz's strength of schedule for scheduling a weaker team 3 years again but turned out to be better is very flawed.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Kind of interesting if you put Montana and Sac States schedule with results next to each other...and if you just said this week, who had a better WIN....and in my estimation it comes out to the Griz having 8 weeks opposed to Sac States 4 weeks. One of Sac States including a win over the Griz of course.

Also assuming both win their final week. That puts the Griz at 1 win over a conference champion in Monmouth...and Sac State 1 win vs champion in Montana.

Say they both lose the Griz would have two wins over conference champions in Monmouth and Weber...Sac would have 0.

If you remove the Griz game the Griz have a much more impressive win resume over Sac States

[Silenoz]

Monmouth silliness aside, assuming both teams win this week it should be a tough call.

Both beat MSU on the road, both beat Eastern at home, both beat Davis (UM on the road, Sac at home), and then the circle jerk with Weber. Montana has a road MVFC win (for whatever that's worth), the PSU road win (for whatever that's worth), and the Monmouth win. Sac has one extra respectable FBS loss.

The biggest difference is the DII game for Sac. I think it simply comes down to that. That, and our circle jerk loss was on the road, yours was at home. I think the committee would favor us, for better or worse.

[SactoHornetFan]

Monmouth silliness aside, assuming both teams win this week it should be a tough call.

Both beat MSU on the road, both beat Eastern at home, both beat Davis (UM on the road, Sac at home), and then the circle jerk with Weber. Montana has a road MVFC win (for whatever that's worth), the PSU road win (for whatever that's worth), and the Monmouth win. Sac has one extra respectable FBS loss.

The biggest difference is the DII game for Sac. I think it simply comes down to that. That, and our circle jerk loss was on the road, yours was at home. I think the committee would favor us, for better or worse.

Worse than that, it was an NAIA game (Southern Oregon).

[uofmman1122]

Monmouth silliness aside, assuming both teams win this week it should be a tough call.

Both beat MSU on the road, both beat Eastern at home, both beat Davis (UM on the road, Sac at home), and then the circle jerk with Weber. Montana has a road MVFC win (for whatever that's worth), the PSU road win (for whatever that's worth), and the Monmouth win. Sac has one extra respectable FBS loss.

The biggest difference is the DII game for Sac. I think it simply comes down to that. That, and our circle jerk loss was on the road, yours was at home. I think the committee would favor us, for better or worse.
This is how I see it, but I could see the committee going either way. Assuming NDSU, JMU, Montana, and Sac win this weekend, those will be your top 4 seeds, the only mystery being who will be 3 and who will be 4.

[kalm]

What Im saying is schedules are set years in advance. And sometimes when you have coaching changes and there might be still an open date left to fill as you get closer to that year, it might not be possible (in SAC's case) to fill it with another D-I opponent (which happened this year because Sears never filled our opening date for 2019 early). You can only play the schedule you have. And we were in our two FBS games well into the 4th quarter this year. And the conference also put EWU, MSU and UM all in a row for us to open league play. Looking at historical records with those three programs, that was a daunting task on paper. Yet look what we did. No one has beaten those three programs, and by major whippings, in three straight weeks since the conference alignment after BSU, UI and even NEV left in the 1990's.

They had Sears doing the scheduling too? Poor feller. If they hadn’t overloaded his plate he’d still have a job.

[SDFS]

3, Montana - possibly 10 wins
4. Weber - injured and might go down easy, but best wins of group
5. ISUr - won on the road at sdsu, but a few blowout losses. Could be jacks here
6. Sac - Thomson back, good resume but 1 less win with lower div win
7. Sdsu- had most favorable schedule, is Long Island considered d1 yet? I’m thinking no. In that case they are stuck at 7
8. CCSU - give the dog a bone. They had a great season

Wasn't the ISU-r vs SDSU after NDSU game.. So, it was with a tr Fr QB for SDSU. IMO - They are getting way too much credit for a very weak schedule. Wins this year - (6* - SDSU, 15 - WIU, 51, 56, 76, 99, 105, 116). They are playing YSU 49 this week. So, not much for quality wins for ISU-r this year.