Gateway Football Conference 2.0

[HAL_9000]

A discussion my friends and I have had is kicking around the idea of resurrecting the storied "Gateway".

It would be beautiful. It would consist of:

Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Youngstown State
Murray State

Huh. Blissfully absent are the Dakotas. Good news you can revive a brand and call it NCC 2.0, see all parties are satisfied.xnodx


I would be curious as to others take on this. Can't kick NDSU out. However......a "new" prospective league body that is legally formed that sends out invitations is it's own entity.... once it receives the requisite number of NCAA participating schools it is its own thing. Bye bye, WAC....we are MWC now we just had to jump through hoops and change our name and.....well then we got a couple schools we didn't want anymore gone.

Thoughts? NDSU is too cowardly to go FBS. Listen if Northern Illinois can do it.....

There are a lot of people that liked things fine when it was Gateway....and UNI ruled the roost. Count me as one of 'em.

[mvemjsunpx]

Except the MVFC is literally the Gateway with a different name. xeyebrowx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

xlolx

The Valley, the formation of it now, is not changing any time soon.

And for NDSU not going "FBS"....no conference to go to.

[ElCid]

xlolx

The Valley, the formation of it now, is not changing any time soon.

And for NDSU not going "FBS"....no conference to go to.

Didn't stop Liberty. But a threatened lawsuit, with Federal backing, made the NCAA relent. And I am pretty sure most of these schools like having the Dakota Darling in their conference any way.

[Bisonator]

xlolx

Can't beat us so kick us out, hmmm sounds familiar. This is rich coming from a Western Illinois fan, where are you moving your olympic sports? You guys are better off dropping down to D2.

I'd take the NCC 2.0 over that Gateway 2.0 anyday. Outside of UNI and maybe ISUr or YSU every 10 years the rest of that conference is putrid. We'd have fun kicking your asses in the playoffs just the same.

[Bison56]

A discussion my friends and I have had is kicking around the idea of resurrecting the storied "Gateway".

It would be beautiful. It would consist of:

Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Youngstown State
Murray State

Huh. Blissfully absent are the Dakotas. Good news you can revive a brand and call it NCC 2.0, see all parties are satisfied.xnodx


I would be curious as to others take on this. Can't kick NDSU out. However......a "new" prospective league body that is legally formed that sends out invitations is it's own entity.... once it receives the requisite number of NCAA participating schools it is its own thing. Bye bye, WAC....we are MWC now we just had to jump through hoops and change our name and.....well then we got a couple schools we didn't want anymore gone.

Thoughts? NDSU is too cowardly to go FBS. Listen if Northern Illinois can do it.....

There are a lot of people that liked things fine when it was Gateway....and UNI ruled the roost. Count me as one of 'em.

Or maybe these teams should start a D2 conference where they can be more competitive.

[Professor Chaos]

A discussion my friends and I have had is kicking around the idea of resurrecting the storied "Gateway".

It would be beautiful. It would consist of:

Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Youngstown State
Murray State

Huh. Blissfully absent are the Dakotas. Good news you can revive a brand and call it NCC 2.0, see all parties are satisfied.xnodx


I would be curious as to others take on this. Can't kick NDSU out. However......a "new" prospective league body that is legally formed that sends out invitations is it's own entity.... once it receives the requisite number of NCAA participating schools it is its own thing. Bye bye, WAC....we are MWC now we just had to jump through hoops and change our name and.....well then we got a couple schools we didn't want anymore gone.

Thoughts? NDSU is too cowardly to go FBS. Listen if Northern Illinois can do it.....

There are a lot of people that liked things fine when it was Gateway....and UNI ruled the roost. Count me as one of 'em.
Your friends and you should kick around the idea of supporting the WIU athletic programs at higher than a D3 level.

[Gil Dobie]

Didn't UNI win nearly every Gateway Championship?

[kalm]

Your friends and you should kick around the idea of supporting the WIU athletic programs at higher than a D3 level.

xflaggedx

Unnecessary underfunded directional/normal school smackdown.

15 yard penalty.

[TheKingpin28]

Didn't stop Liberty. But a threatened lawsuit, with Federal backing, made the NCAA relent. And I am pretty sure most of these schools like having the Dakota Darling in their conference any way.Also, and here's the big kicker, when one of these people calling for us to leave can pony up numbers in hundreds of millions to billions of dollars, then we'll talk.

Football would have to be funded around the 25-50 million range

Mens basketball would have to be funded in the 5-10 million range

All other sports would have to jump significantly with emphasis on our softball (NDSU, for its' size, is extremely good at it), Wrestling, WBB and volleyball. Track and Field for both indoor and outdoor are solid and would need a bump as well.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[IBleedYellow]

Mother ****ers....


If y'all try to St Thomas us...


Also, WIU wanting to kick NDSU out would be bad for WIU. Probably a death blow, with the death of the Summit and losing their NCAA autobids, etc. Great choices!

[JayJ79]

Didn't UNI win nearly every Gateway Championship?
23 seasons under the "Gateway" name.
UNI was a champion in 13 of those seasons (9 outright. 4 shared, though if memory serves me correctly, UNI had gotten the AQ in all 4 of those shared title years)

[POD Knows]

A discussion my friends and I have had is kicking around the idea of resurrecting the storied "Gateway".

It would be beautiful. It would consist of:

Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Youngstown State
Murray State

Huh. Blissfully absent are the Dakotas. Good news you can revive a brand and call it NCC 2.0, see all parties are satisfied.xnodx


I would be curious as to others take on this. Can't kick NDSU out. However......a "new" prospective league body that is legally formed that sends out invitations is it's own entity.... once it receives the requisite number of NCAA participating schools it is its own thing. Bye bye, WAC....we are MWC now we just had to jump through hoops and change our name and.....well then we got a couple schools we didn't want anymore gone.

Thoughts? NDSU is too cowardly to go FBS. Listen if Northern Illinois can do it.....

There are a lot of people that liked things fine when it was Gateway....and UNI ruled the roost. Count me as one of 'em.Nice troll buddy

[ST_Lawson]

...I would be curious as to others take on this. Can't kick NDSU out. However......a "new" prospective league body that is legally formed that sends out invitations is it's own entity.... once it receives the requisite number of NCAA participating schools it is its own thing. Bye bye, WAC....we are MWC now we just had to jump through hoops and change our name and.....well then we got a couple schools we didn't want anymore gone.

Thoughts? NDSU is too cowardly to go FBS. Listen if Northern Illinois can do it.....

There are a lot of people that liked things fine when it was Gateway....and UNI ruled the roost. Count me as one of 'em.

How about no.

Disregarding the fact that NIU shouldn't be FBS anyway (they be in the middle of the MVFC in average home attendance and slightly above the conference average for university enrollment), NDSU can't go FBS.
1. Fargodome only holds ~19k and can't be easily expanded much beyond that. If they want any of the benefit of going FBS, they need a bigger stadium...but they'd have to build a completely new one.
2. They need an invite from an existing FBS conference, of which there is none in the area. Yes, Liberty did it, but Liberty has near-unlimited funds and resources to throw at the problem. Public universities at this approximate size/level do not.

The problem right now is not NDSU...it's us (WIU). If we really want to be DI, we need to actually fund our athletics at the DI level. Right now, we fund our athletics like we're the top of DII. We've already been passed up by pretty much all of the MVFC, if we don't do something in the next few years, we're going to start getting passed up by MAII teams. I don't know if you've noticed, but we're 1-9 this year. Yes, we lost to NDSU by quite a bit, but that's just one game. Remove them from the equation and we're still 1-8, and in your new conference, replace our win over USD with a possible win over Murray State...and we're still at the bottom of the conference.

Across all of our sports, outside of Women's Basketball, we haven't had much success at all over the last few years. That's not a problem with the Dakota schools...that's a problem with us. At this point, it seems like the conference games are the only ones where we find any success at all (look at men's soccer...we're 4-1-0 in the Summit...but 1-11-1 in non-conference matchups). And what do we do with those sports if the Dakota schools go off somewhere else? The "new Gateway" you mentioned wouldn't take us...UNI, MSU, SIU, Murray State...those guys wouldn't be caught dead with our men's basketball program.

Here's what I see as possible "directions" things could go for us:
1. We actually increase funding, are able to get some donations put together, stay where we're at, but compete like a team at this level.
2. We don't, and continue to languish at/near the bottom of the standings for most of our sports.
3. We drop our funding a little and drop down to DII, joining probably the GLVC (or maybe the MIAA). Saves a bit on travel costs, saves some on scholarships, and we'd be closer to the rest in terms of facilities (still need to fix up our dilapidated west-side stands though...just for safety reasons).
4. The rest of the conference trades us to the OVC for Murray State. MSU joins the MVFC and MVC. We're slightly more competitive with the OVC in football and with Murray State (and probably eventually Belmont) gone, our basketball isn't completely horrible there either.

I'm sorry, we can't turn back the clock to the old Gateway when UNI was at the top of the conference and we were usually right behind them (or sometimes ahead). Those days are passed and we need to look to what we can do to be successful going forward, before the rest of our conference makes the decision for us.

[POD Knows]

How about no.

Disregarding the fact that NIU shouldn't be FBS anyway (they be in the middle of the MVFC in average home attendance and slightly above the conference average for university enrollment), NDSU can't go FBS.
1. Fargodome only holds ~19k and can't be easily expanded much beyond that. If they want any of the benefit of going FBS, they need a bigger stadium...but they'd have to build a completely new one.
2. They need an invite from an existing FBS conference, of which there is none in the area. Yes, Liberty did it, but Liberty has near-unlimited funds and resources to throw at the problem. Public universities at this approximate size/level do not.

The problem right now is not NDSU...it's us (WIU). If we really want to be DI, we need to actually fund our athletics at the DI level. Right now, we fund our athletics like we're the top of DII. We've already been passed up by pretty much all of the MVFC, if we don't do something in the next few years, we're going to start getting passed up by MAII teams. I don't know if you've noticed, but we're 1-9 this year. Yes, we lost to NDSU by quite a bit, but that's just one game. Remove them from the equation and we're still 1-8, and in your new conference, replace our win over USD with a possible win over Murray State...and we're still at the bottom of the conference.

Across all of our sports, outside of Women's Basketball, we haven't had much success at all over the last few years. That's not a problem with the Dakota schools...that's a problem with us. At this point, it seems like the conference games are the only ones where we find any success at all (look at men's soccer...we're 4-1-0 in the Summit...but 1-11-1 in non-conference matchups). And what do we do with those sports if the Dakota schools go off somewhere else? The "new Gateway" you mentioned wouldn't take us...UNI, MSU, SIU, Murray State...those guys wouldn't be caught dead with our men's basketball program.

Here's what I see as possible "directions" things could go for us:
1. We actually increase funding, are able to get some donations put together, stay where we're at, but compete like a team at this level.
2. We don't, and continue to languish at/near the bottom of the standings for most of our sports.
3. We drop our funding a little and drop down to DII, joining probably the GLVC (or maybe the MIAA). Saves a bit on travel costs, saves some on scholarships, and we'd be closer to the rest in terms of facilities (still need to fix up our dilapidated west-side stands though...just for safety reasons).
4. The rest of the conference trades us to the OVC for Murray State. MSU joins the MVFC and MVC. We're slightly more competitive with the OVC in football and with Murray State (and probably eventually Belmont) gone, our basketball isn't completely horrible there either.

I'm sorry, we can't turn back the clock to the old Gateway when UNI was at the top of the conference and we were usually right behind them (or sometimes ahead). Those days are passed and we need to look to what we can do to be successful going forward, before the rest of our conference makes the decision for us./Close thread

[JayJ79]

Yes, Liberty did it, but Liberty has near-unlimited funds and resources to throw at the problem. Public universities at this approximate size/level do not.
NDSU just needs to form a religious cult to dupe people into donating money to them, like Liberty. Then they would have the funds to build a bigger stadium and buy their way into an FBS conference. :D

[Gil Dobie]

Mother ****ers....


If y'all try to St Thomas us...


Also, WIU wanting to kick NDSU out would be bad for WIU. Probably a death blow, with the death of the Summit and losing their NCAA autobids, etc. Great choices!

St Thomas was a founding member of the old North Central Conference that included the Dakota's.

[IBleedYellow]

St Thomas was a founding member of the old North Central Conference that included the Dakota's.

I 'member.

What I was talking about was how the MIAC just booted St Thomas.

[JayJ79]

streamline the conference. prune the outliers.
bye NDSU. so long WIU. can go back to being a true conference and playing everyone. xthumbsupx

[ST_Lawson]

NDSU just needs to form a religious cult to dupe people into donating money to them, like Liberty. Then they would have the funds to build a bigger stadium and buy their way into an FBS conference. :D

It also helps that they have roughly a bajillion online students.

[JacksFan40]

If you can’t beat em, kick em out. Not sure that’s how the saying goes but that’s essentially what this is.

[JayJ79]

It also helps that they have roughly a bajillion online students.

and a car insurance company with an emu. (okay, so liberty mutual probably isn't connected with liberty u., but anyway)

[RabidRabbit]

WIU is closer to being an inaugural Summit football school than being a “Gateway” resurrected school. Unless WIU gets selected by the MVC for all other sport, much more likely to be 6 Summit schools playing 63 scholarships football than MVFC dissolving by adding Western.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JayJ79]

WIU is closer to being an inaugural Summit football school than being a “Gateway” resurrected school. Unless WIU gets selected by the MVC for all other sport, much more likely to be 6 Summit schools playing 63 scholarships football than MVFC dissolving by adding Western.
but the MVFC already has Western

[ST_Lawson]

but the MVFC already has Western

the MVC doesn't...and barring some insane shakeup in MVC-land...we likely never will

[JayJ79]

the MVC doesn't...and barring some insane shakeup in MVC-land...we likely never will
right. but this thread is about a football conference, and Rabid specifically said the MVFC.
maybe it was a typo

[uni88]

NDSU just needs to form a religious cult to dupe people into donating money to them, like Liberty. Then they would have the funds to build a bigger stadium and buy their way into an FBS conference. :D

They have the cult following, now they just need to start duping them out of their money. :P

[ysubigred]

Well,,, when YSU moves to NAIA that will be one less team for you ****heads to entertain!

[clenz]

This is a dumb thread

[ysubigred]

This is a dumb thread

I added my xtwocentsx

[Sycamore62]

I wanted to see a conference that consisted of:
ISUb
ISUr
WIU
EIU
SIU
MoSt
MuSt
SEMO
maybe 2 more like YSU and UNI but only so I could easily drive to road games. Nothing about competition level.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Didn't stop Liberty. But a threatened lawsuit, with Federal backing, made the NCAA relent. And I am pretty sure most of these schools like having the Dakota Darling in their conference any way.



Pfft.....NDSU doesn't have 100K online students or whatever Liberty has for more $$$.

Like I said, NDSU has no where to go.

[Sycamore62]

Pfft.....NDSU doesn't have 100K online students or whatever Liberty has for more $$$.

Like I said, NDSU has no where to go.

There's always the CFL

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

There's always the CFL


xrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesx xrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesx

Good call bud.

[MSUBobcat]

Why are so many responding to a stupid thread started by a poster with 26 whopping posts in over 2 years since joining?? The OP hasn't even bothered to come back to continue the "debate". This is weak sauce trolling, at best, yet people are detailing why it wouldn't ever happen.

[Herder]

NDSU just needs to form a religious cult to dupe people into donating money to them, like Liberty. Then they would have the funds to build a bigger stadium and buy their way into an FBS conference. :D

Nothing wrong with what Liberty is teaching kids, which includes strong family values. I guess all religion is a cult if your left wing lib. A cult? Take a deeper look.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Nothing wrong with what Liberty is teaching kids, which includes strong family values. I guess all religion is a cult if your left wing lib. A cult? Take a deeper look.


3 local kids here have gone to Liberty U and they all loved it. Nothing wrong with that school. Haters will always be there.

[ST_Lawson]

Why are so many responding to a stupid thread started by a poster with 26 whopping posts in over 2 years since joining?? The OP hasn't even bothered to come back to continue the "debate". This is weak sauce trolling, at best, yet people are detailing why it wouldn't ever happen.

When your team sucks this bad, it's hard to find stuff to talk about.

"oh look, we gave up two TDs on two plays to a true freshman who's the size of my 12-year-old daughter...wheee"

[Sycamore62]

Why are so many responding to a stupid thread started by a poster with 26 whopping posts in over 2 years since joining?? The OP hasn't even bothered to come back to continue the "debate". This is weak sauce trolling, at best, yet people are detailing why it wouldn't ever happen.

Imagine we are all at a bar drinking. It's ok to be interested or not interested in anything on the internet. He trolled you to complain after 33 replies.

[MSUBobcat]

Imagine we are all at a bar drinking. It's ok to be interested or not interested in anything on the internet. He trolled you to complain after 33 replies.

I'm hardly complaining, nor did he troll ME as I didn't respond to the topic of the thread. I'm asking why some of YOU are responding. If, like ST Lawson, your reason is because when your team sucks bad, things like this interest you, so be it.

[Sycamore62]

I'm hardly complaining, nor did he troll ME as I didn't respond to the topic of the thread. I'm asking why some of YOU are responding. If, like ST Lawson, your reason is because when your team sucks bad, things like this interest you, so be it.

I mean unless you are fans of about 3 teams on here OR if you are playing those teams there arent enough people to have a circle jerk conversation about a specific game, especially on a tuesday or wednesday

[MSUBobcat]

I mean unless you are fans of about 3 teams on here OR if you are playing those teams there arent enough people to have a circle jerk conversation about a specific game, especially on a tuesday or wednesday

Gonna have to disagree on that. There's about 5-6 other threads that I'm paying attention to/posting in that are in the realm of reality. This far into the season, there is ample opportunity to not only talk about specific games but to also prognosticate about what teams get playoff bids, seeds, matchups, etc.

[Sycamore62]

Gonna have to disagree on that. There's about 5-6 other threads that I'm paying attention to/posting in that are in the realm of reality. This far into the season, there is ample opportunity to not only talk about specific games but to also prognosticate about what teams get playoff bids, seeds, matchups, etc.

so you're following 6-7 threads total?

[mvfcfan]

I sort of agree with the original post. When we were only going to have 7 teams we kind of needed the Dakotas, but with Murray State we wouldn't. If we are never going to invite the Dakota schools for all sports in the MVC, I don't see why we should continue traveling up there every year just to boost up their football teams.

Adding Murray State would he nice. Would give the MVC 6 football schools so we would ensure ourselves having an auto-bid no matter what. They also have good basketball.

[clenz]

I sort of agree with the original post. When we were only going to have 7 teams we kind of needed the Dakotas, but with Murray State we wouldn't. If we are never going to invite the Dakota schools for all sports in the MVC, I don't see why we should continue traveling up there every year just to boost up their football teams.

Adding Murray State would he nice. Would give the MVC 6 football schools so we would ensure ourselves having an auto-bid no matter what. They also have good basketball.
Oh JFC....follow me here


We'd have 6 schools in the MVC but we'd be a dead conference.

WIU would be gone because the Summit wouldn't have enough teams to sponsor football. We aren't inviting WIU for all sports.
YSU maybe sticks around but if the idea is all sports they aren't in.

You'd have a **** conference stuck trying to fill 5 or 6 OOC games every year. You'd be the Big South in a damn second.

Just a stupid ****ing idea.

[mvfcfan]

WIU isn't any worse than playing Drake, Loyola, and Valpo in their glorified gyms. At least they have football and baseball. I wish ISU would leave the MVC. The whole set up of the conference is a joke. We have to take a bus to Texas every other year to help boost DBU too.

[Penguin Nation]

IMO, the ideal MVFC would be the 4 Dakota schools and UNI, and 5 of the northern BSC schools (2 MT schools, EWU, 2 ID schools). The eastern schools aren't competitive there and should merge with the OVC or MAC when it eventually falls apart.

[mvfcfan]

I doubt UNI would go for that, but EWU, ID, IDSU, MT, MTSU, and the 4 Dakota's would be a perfect conference. Problem is that the XDSUs have baseball and I dont think anyone else does.

I cant see the Dakota schools being happy in the Summit League forever. UMKC, UNO, and St Thomas are hardly schools I would be excited to play.

[clenz]

WIU isn't any worse than playing Drake, Loyola, and Valpo in their glorified gyms. At least they have football and baseball. I wish ISU would leave the MVC. The whole set up of the conference is a joke. We have to take a bus to Texas every other year to help boost DBU too.
As an athletic department and university WIU is a **** hole that I don't even really like being attached to right now as it is - sorry Lawson.

WIU is light years worse than Valpo, Drake and Valpo

We **** all over Knapp, ARC and Gentile because relative to MVC schools they aren't great. Whatever WIU calls their place is legitmately a glofieid HS gym

http://fightmusic.com/wallpapers/summit/Summit-League_Western_Illinois__Western_Hall__1600x1200.j pg



Knapp has been renovated - just has more renovations announced - just build an all new team/training/media area and practice facility
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/drake.sidearmsports.com/images/2007/10/15/AFFFDREKRPCUTHZ.20071015204544.jpg


Getile gets **** on because of it's capacity - but they have dumped a hell of a lot of money into it (new court this year as well) and it's actually a decent facility (just small)
https://loyolaramblers.com/images/2018/2/8/Gentile_Arena_vs_MSU_2018_20264.jpg?width=1023&quality=80&format=jpg



Valpo is truly the only one that is a "glorified" HS gym....but as a program they are lighyears better than WIU


in 39 years as a D1 program WIU has 3 20 win seasons, 14 seasons of single digit wins, 18 seasons of 10 or fewer.

Anyone willing to trade any MVC program for WIU needs to get their head checked the **** out.


It's not the MVC's fault you force your baseball team to take a ****ing bus to Texas. I followed the buses of your football team out of CF over the weekend. The fact you bus to CF for football is just ****ing stupid. Act like D1 program or get the **** out of D1. It's a 1 hour flight. Why the **** would you rent 3 buses to drive your team 8 hours?


I wish you'd get out of the MVC too so we could bring in a school/program that actually wants to ****ing be D1. I'd trade ISUb for Murray State in a ****ing second.

[Sycamore62]

I dont care about how the team gets to any game. I care how I get to them. I wont be travelling to non football games so it doesnt matter to me who is in the MVC.

[ST_Lawson]

As an athletic department and university WIU is a **** hole that I don't even really like being attached to right now as it is - sorry Lawson.

WIU is light years worse than Valpo, Drake and Valpo

We **** all over Knapp, ARC and Gentile because relative to MVC schools they aren't great. Whatever WIU calls their place is legitmately a glofieid HS gym

...

Valpo is truly the only one that is a "glorified" HS gym....but as a program they are lighyears better than WIU


in 39 years as a D1 program WIU has 3 20 win seasons, 14 seasons of single digit wins, 18 seasons of 10 or fewer.

Anyone willing to trade any MVC program for WIU needs to get their head checked the **** out.

I love my university (and I don't really appreciate it being called a **** hole), but the logic isn't wrong.

Our men's basketball has been pretty horrible the majority of our DI history. We've never made the NCAA tournament, and only ever made ANY postseason tournament twice (CBI in 2012 and 2013...lost in the first round in both). We've won our conference regular season 3 times...in 37 years...with two of those being the first two years of the conference being DI (81-82 and 82-83).

Our "arena" holds 4,781, but is essentially 55 years old. Sure, there've been some small remodeling and upgrades, but it's still mostly the same building that we were competing in back in the '60s. If we filled it regularly, it could be fairly decent (it can get loud there when there's nearly 5k people...I've seen it once or twice), but last year we averaged 466 per home game. Four hundred and sixty six. There's a few DI schools that average fewer people...but not many.

For comparison, Valpo's holds a few more people than ours but was completed in '84, so it's much newer. They averaged over 2600 last year.
Loyola, actually a little bit smaller than WIU's, but built in '96 and renovated in 2011, and averaged just over 3700 last year.

What you see in the picture that clenz posted...that's literally what every game looks like. And that's not like pregame or during a blowout when half the people have left (if you look, WIU is actually up by 1 with 10:28 left to go in the game)...that's how it looks during the game. If you've ever listened to a basketball practice with a few coaches clapping and shouting and you can hear the shoes squeaking and ball bouncing...welcome to Western Hall during a men's basketball game.

We've had 1 home game so far, 340 people were there and we lost to Stetson (who went 7-24 last year). We are...not good.

[Bisonoline]

Didn't stop Liberty. But a threatened lawsuit, with Federal backing, made the NCAA relent. And I am pretty sure most of these schools like having the Dakota Darling in their conference any way.

Liberty also has a few pockets full of money do go the Indy route.

[Herder]

I sort of agree with the original post. When we were only going to have 7 teams we kind of needed the Dakotas, but with Murray State we wouldn't. If we are never going to invite the Dakota schools for all sports in the MVC, I don't see why we should continue traveling up there every year just to boost up their football teams.

Adding Murray State would he nice. Would give the MVC 6 football schools so we would ensure ourselves having an auto-bid no matter what. They also have good basketball.

MVC football, ya that 6 team league would have some serious gusto . . . Not. You could all cut your spending in half, heck why not go full Pioneer! Heck or just drop football, cause you know, basketball is so important. Maybe you could drop out of the playoffs and do bowl game with the MEAC.

[FormerPokeCenter]

A discussion my friends and I have had is kicking around the idea of resurrecting the storied "Gateway".

It would be beautiful. It would consist of:

Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Youngstown State
Murray State

Huh. Blissfully absent are the Dakotas. Good news you can revive a brand and call it NCC 2.0, see all parties are satisfied.xnodx


I would be curious as to others take on this. Can't kick NDSU out. However......a "new" prospective league body that is legally formed that sends out invitations is it's own entity.... once it receives the requisite number of NCAA participating schools it is its own thing. Bye bye, WAC....we are MWC now we just had to jump through hoops and change our name and.....well then we got a couple schools we didn't want anymore gone.

Thoughts? NDSU is too cowardly to go FBS. Listen if Northern Illinois can do it.....

There are a lot of people that liked things fine when it was Gateway....and UNI ruled the roost. Count me as one of 'em.

I'm afraid they can't do that, Hal...

[Sycamore62]

MVC football, ya that 6 team league would have some serious gusto . . . Not. You could all cut your spending in half, heck why not go full Pioneer! Heck or just drop football, cause you know, basketball is so important. Maybe you could drop out of the playoffs and do bowl game with the MEAC.

all the spending in FCS outside NDSU has netted 1 championship in 8 years

[JayJ79]

I, for one, find it quite boring when one team dominates for an extended number of years (just as much as when a team is utter garbage for an extended number of years)

[Bisonoline]

A discussion my friends and I have had is kicking around the idea of resurrecting the storied "Gateway".

It would be beautiful. It would consist of:

Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Youngstown State
Murray State

Huh. Blissfully absent are the Dakotas. Good news you can revive a brand and call it NCC 2.0, see all parties are satisfied.xnodx


I would be curious as to others take on this. Can't kick NDSU out. However......a "new" prospective league body that is legally formed that sends out invitations is it's own entity.... once it receives the requisite number of NCAA participating schools it is its own thing. Bye bye, WAC....we are MWC now we just had to jump through hoops and change our name and.....well then we got a couple schools we didn't want anymore gone.

Thoughts? NDSU is too cowardly to go FBS. Listen if Northern Illinois can do it.....

There are a lot of people that liked things fine when it was Gateway....and UNI ruled the roost. Count me as one of 'em.

AAAAHHHHHHHHH No xrotatehx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

all the spending in FCS outside NDSU has netted 1 championship in 8 years

Raise your game.

You're really going to be depressed because NDSU will keep getting better. This team is really young.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I, for one, find it quite boring when one team dominates for an extended number of years (just as much as when a team is utter garbage for an extended number of years)

I like it. To me it says that school has the commitment to stay on top. It is harder to stay on top as opposed to getting there.

[Houndawg]

Raise your game.

You're really going to be depressed because NDSU will keep getting better. This team is really young.


Big duck in a small pond

[Houndawg]

A discussion my friends and I have had is kicking around the idea of resurrecting the storied "Gateway".

It would be beautiful. It would consist of:

Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Youngstown State
Murray State

Huh. Blissfully absent are the Dakotas. Good news you can revive a brand and call it NCC 2.0, see all parties are satisfied.xnodx


I would be curious as to others take on this. Can't kick NDSU out. However......a "new" prospective league body that is legally formed that sends out invitations is it's own entity.... once it receives the requisite number of NCAA participating schools it is its own thing. Bye bye, WAC....we are MWC now we just had to jump through hoops and change our name and.....well then we got a couple schools we didn't want anymore gone.

Thoughts? NDSU is too cowardly to go FBS. Listen if Northern Illinois can do it.....

There are a lot of people that liked things fine when it was Gateway....and UNI ruled the roost. Count me as one of 'em.

Dumping YSU and bringing in SEMO would be great for travel budgets

[TheKingpin28]

Big duck in a small pondMaybe have your fans commit more to your program and recruit athletes who can compete? Why build a decent horseshoe if you are only going to fill 5k seats on a good day?

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Houndawg]

A discussion my friends and I have had is kicking around the idea of resurrecting the storied "Gateway".

It would be beautiful. It would consist of:

Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Youngstown State
Murray State

Huh. Blissfully absent are the Dakotas. Good news you can revive a brand and call it NCC 2.0, see all parties are satisfied.xnodx


I would be curious as to others take on this. Can't kick NDSU out. However......a "new" prospective league body that is legally formed that sends out invitations is it's own entity.... once it receives the requisite number of NCAA participating schools it is its own thing. Bye bye, WAC....we are MWC now we just had to jump through hoops and change our name and.....well then we got a couple schools we didn't want anymore gone.

Thoughts? NDSU is too cowardly to go FBS. Listen if Northern Illinois can do it.....

There are a lot of people that liked things fine when it was Gateway....and UNI ruled the roost. Count me as one of 'em.

They're just being realistic - how are you going to get big time talent to come to North Dakota?

[Houndawg]

xlolx

Can't beat us so kick us out, hmmm sounds familiar. This is rich coming from a Western Illinois fan, where are you moving your olympic sports? You guys are better off dropping down to D2.

I'd take the NCC 2.0 over that Gateway 2.0 anyday. Outside of UNI and maybe ISUr or YSU every 10 years the rest of that conference is putrid. We'd have fun kicking your asses in the playoffs just the same.

You'd still be the loser because when the game is over you have to go back to Fargo.xcoffeex

[Sycamore62]

Raise your game.

You're really going to be depressed because NDSU will keep getting better. This team is really young.

you missed the point.

[PantherRob82]

How about Gateway 2.0 moves to FBS with:
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Missouri State
UNI
Illinois State
Western Kentucky
YSU

xcoolx

[Sycamore62]

How about Gateway 2.0 moves to FBS with:
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Missouri State
UNI
Illinois State
Western Kentucky
YSU

xcoolx

If I were WKU, id say eat a d***. I aint playing in the cold...

[Redbird 4th & short]

You know the old expression ... if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. This is more like ... if you can't beat 'em, avoid 'em.

Dumb idea ..

[Bisonator]

You'd still be the loser because when the game is over you have to go back to Fargo.xcoffeex
Oh geography smack how original. xlolx

Jokes on you though because we would already be in Fargo, it's you that would have to go back to Carbondale. That's if you ever made it this far which is highly unlikely. :D

[Bisonator]

How about Gateway 2.0 moves to FBS with:
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Missouri State
UNI
Illinois State
Western Kentucky
YSU

xcoolx
This would be awesome, too bad most of those don't want or can't afford FBS.

[JayJ79]

Raise your game.

You're really going to be depressed because NDSU will keep getting better. This team is really young.

all the more reason to St. Thomas y'all's arses. xrotatehx

[Bisonoline]

You'd still be the loser because when the game is over you have to go back to Fargo.xcoffeex

xcoffeex

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

all the more reason to St. Thomas y'all's arses. xrotatehx


Aww, too bad ST will be in the Pioneer....xlolx

[cx500d]

This is a stupid thread

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This is a stupid thread


xnodx

[mvfcfan]

Like I've said in the past. I thought NDSU and SDSU should've been invited to the MVC for all sports back before Creighton left. The common excuse back then was that CU ot Wichita wouldn't like it. Now days the excuse is that they are too far.

Personally I would prefer an all-sports conference with the 5 MVC publics and the 4 Dakota schools. If that's never going to happen then OVC would be my second choice.

I don't hate the private schools in the MVC, I just don't think we should be in a conference with them since they don't have football.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Like I've said in the past. I thought NDSU and SDSU should've been invited to the MVC for all sports back before Creighton left. The common excuse back then was that CU ot Wichita wouldn't like it. Now days the excuse is that they are too far.

Personally I would prefer an all-sports conference with the 5 MVC publics and the 4 Dakota schools. If that's never going to happen then OVC would be my second choice.

I don't hate the private schools in the MVC, I just don't think we should be in a conference with them since they don't have football.


I remember when the Dakota schools were bad mouthed on here from your MVC comrades when membership was ever brought up.

Summit is just fine for the Dakotas right now.

[ST_Lawson]

This is a stupid thread

Started with a dumb idea, but for those of us who's offseason starts in 8 days, it's just an early offseason thread.

[Redbird 4th & short]

The net effect of NDSU and SDSU joining MVFC ... all ships rise.

When Spack first started at ISUr in 2009, 6-5 use to mean nothing in MVFC. Now it usually means you're pretty good and possibly top 25 and might even get a playoff bid. If my choices are to move to OVC (much less a 1 bid league) where we would be 8-3 or 9-2 every year, or stay in MVFC and struggle to go 7-4 most years .. I'll take the latter without hesitation.

[FormerPokeCenter]

This is a stupid thread


You're not kidding, only ONE guy got my 2001: A Space Odyssey reference, and thank God for him. Otherwise my faith in humanity would have been destroyed...

[Sycamore62]

The net effect of NDSU and SDSU joining MVFC ... all ships rise.

When Spack first started at ISUr in 2009, 6-5 use to mean nothing in MVFC. Now it usually means you're pretty good and possibly top 25 and might even get a playoff bid. If my choices are to move to OVC (much less a 1 bid league) where we would be 8-3 or 9-2 every year, or stay in MVFC and struggle to go 7-4 most years .. I'll take the latter without hesitation.

I can never which one "the latter" means

[FormerPokeCenter]

In a comparison of two things; Former = First. Latter = Last

[Kemo]

I can never which one "the latter" means

https://media3.giphy.com/media/bqwtgt1RNmvRK/200.webp?cid=790b7611b668f02d82fa9a2c456d5667efdc6 8a011c25082&rid=200.webp

[HAL_9000]

Lots of response, to an admittedly silly thread.

I thought after I posted it that it was probably dumb, and I feared I would be ridiculed.

*Sigh* So much failing happening at Western. I think when our previous Governor froze all funding to public universities Charlie Fischer was put in an extra hard position to recruit. WIU facility wise couldn’t compete with ISU or SIU in State and word is other out of State conference mates weren’t bashful about planting the idea in recruits’ minds that Western was closing.

So Charlie probably had two subpar recruiting classes. When his buddy offered him a gig at Arizona State (more sun, more pay, less stress) he jumped at it. Western was once again in in “crisis” mode after having just done a national search for Charlie and a few years before that for Bob. No money or time so they then thrust the then 33 year old OC Jarred Elliot into the role of a D-I head coach in the toughest FCS league. Elliot is out of his depth.

Anyway, the real purpose of starting the thread is why do the Bison continue to compete at the FCS level? The Bison are a Flagship school in their state that year in and year out would be a top 40 FBS program some years breaking into the AP Poll top 25. NDSU is what Boise State was….actually better.

I bet with some engineering Fargodome could accomidate 21K (That’s more than some MAC programs, more than Idaho by 6,000). NDSU could be on a 10 year plan to build a 35K seat capacity dome.

No Home? Mountain West is your home…why not? University of North Dakota can operate a D-I program as a member of the Big Sky but NDSU can’t operate in the same footprint?

Nonsense.

Gateway was it’s own thing until, for reasons I will never know the name was hijacked and rebranded Missouri Valley Football Conference.
I would like Western to compete in the Horizon League for Olympic sports and compete in the Conference we used to compete in for football. So really all I am asking for is a time machine. I will also accept a better hairline and a CrossFit body.

Clenz is predictable. “UNI is better than the Dakotas…..Summit is lame…. I’m leaving you!” “Wait, I didn’t mean it…I sorry I’ll change I promise.” Also Clenz everybody on this board knows that you think Western Illinois University is a steaming pile of S***. I mean time wasted here is an opportunity lost to push a Freshman into the lockers or make fun of a kid that looks different or isn’t popular.

Hey you know I have to be brave (and a miserable prick) to admit to being a soon to be D-II Western fan Lol.

Sidebar-
I first started following AGS 14 years ago and got my first account 13 years ago…..I quit posting at about 400 posts 10 years ago…..AGS then purged a lot of “non active” users. So when I became interested again I mostly just enjoyed the banter from afar.

[Bisonoline]

Lots of response, to an admittedly silly thread.

I thought after I posted it that it was probably dumb, and I feared I would be ridiculed.

*Sigh* So much failing happening at Western. I think when our previous Governor froze all funding to public universities Charlie Fischer was put in an extra hard position to recruit. WIU facility wise couldn’t compete with ISU or SIU in State and word is other out of State conference mates weren’t bashful about planting the idea in recruits’ minds that Western was closing.

So Charlie probably had two subpar recruiting classes. When his buddy offered him a gig at Arizona State (more sun, more pay, less stress) he jumped at it. Western was once again in in “crisis” mode after having just done a national search for Charlie and a few years before that for Bob. No money or time so they then thrust the then 33 year old OC Jarred Elliot into the role of a D-I head coach in the toughest FCS league. Elliot is out of his depth.

Anyway, the real purpose of starting the thread is why do the Bison continue to compete at the FCS level? The Bison are a Flagship school in their state that year in and year out would be a top 40 FBS program some years breaking into the AP Poll top 25. NDSU is what Boise State was….actually better.

I bet with some engineering Fargodome could accomidate 21K (That’s more than some MAC programs, more than Idaho by 6,000). NDSU could be on a 10 year plan to build a 35K seat capacity dome.

No Home? Mountain West is your home…why not? University of North Dakota can operate a D-I program as a member of the Big Sky but NDSU can’t operate in the same footprint?

Nonsense.

Gateway was it’s own thing until, for reasons I will never know the name was hijacked and rebranded Missouri Valley Football Conference.
I would like Western to compete in the Horizon League for Olympic sports and compete in the Conference we used to compete in for football. So really all I am asking for is a time machine. I will also accept a better hairline and a CrossFit body.

Clenz is predictable. “UNI is better than the Dakotas…..Summit is lame…. I’m leaving you!” “Wait, I didn’t mean it…I sorry I’ll change I promise.” Also Clenz everybody on this board knows that you think Western Illinois University is a steaming pile of S***. I mean time wasted here is an opportunity lost to push a Freshman into the lockers or make fun of a kid that looks different or isn’t popular.

Hey you know I have to be brave (and a miserable prick) to admit to being a soon to be D-II Western fan Lol.

Sidebar-
I first started following AGS 14 years ago and got my first account 13 years ago…..I quit posting at about 400 posts 10 years ago…..AGS then purged a lot of “non active” users. So when I became interested again I mostly just enjoyed the banter from afar.

The University of North Dakota has left the Big Sky because they couldnt afford it. So they pretty much make your whole windy premise moot.

[HAL_9000]

The University of North Dakota has left the Big Sky because they couldnt afford it. So they pretty much make your whole windy premise moot.

I don't doubt it was expensive for UND.

They didn't drop out of D-I they got accepted into the Summit and the Valley.

Maybe the financials don't work for NDSU. Or is it the addiction and allure of winning? I can tell you if you are Illinois and Lovie Smith yer doing kart-wheels at a 6-6 record....sad but so very tru
FBS is nice in that every couple years you got a Big XII and a B1G comming to your house....people get used to it media acclimates to it.... you position for the next shift and slide into a more comfortable Big XII conference home.

Also NDSU does not have an enormously expensive hockey program to fund like UND did/does.

UND wasn't dropping out of D-I....of course they wanted to be where they could bus to Fargo, Brookings, Vermilion, Omaha.....

However, there was no way UND was not staying D-I. I root for the Bison I just wish they would play a schedule that challenged the coaching staff and their deep and talented roster. I have nothing but the Upmost respect for Bison football. Yes Western can leave, and if they do the Bison will still go undefeated every year. Time for Bison to get in the ring with the big boys, you are one of the best, go out and play the best.

Ok that was long winded.

[mvfcfan]

NDSU will end up fading at some point. It's inevitable. YSU dominated in the 90's and SIU in the 00's (WKU and UNI were also good). If Minnesota stays good I think that will hurt NDSU in the long run. That's not to say NDSU won't be a perennial top 25 team still, but I don't think they will dominate forever.

[Professor Chaos]

I don't doubt it was expensive for UND.

They didn't drop out of D-I they got accepted into the Summit and the Valley.

Maybe the financials don't work for NDSU. Or is it the addiction and allure of winning? I can tell you if you are Illinois and Lovie Smith yer doing kart-wheels at a 6-6 record....sad but so very tru
FBS is nice in that every couple years you got a Big XII and a B1G comming to your house....people get used to it media acclimates to it.... you position for the next shift and slide into a more comfortable Big XII conference home.

Also NDSU does not have an enormously expensive hockey program to fund like UND did/does.

UND wasn't dropping out of D-I....of course they wanted to be where they could bus to Fargo, Brookings, Vermilion, Omaha.....

However, there was no way UND was not staying D-I. I root for the Bison I just wish they would play a schedule that challenged the coaching staff and their deep and talented roster. I have nothing but the Upmost respect for Bison football. Yes Western can leave, and if they do the Bison will still go undefeated every year. Time for Bison to get in the ring with the big boys, you are one of the best, go out and play the best.

Ok that was long winded.
You fall into the same trap many "FBS now" Bison fans do. What does NDSU bring to the table to the Mountain West? Yes, they bring a good football program that might gain the conference some extra pub every once in a while but you know what they also bring? Another mouth to feed. Every other schools piece of the conference media deal money, CFP playoff money, and NCAA tournament shares money (if it's an all sports move) is that much smaller. The Mountain West is stable right now at 12 teams so they have no reason to add unless it's a no-brainer. Maybe if a team like Boise St gets sniped that changes but I fail to see the benefit adding NDSU provides the MWC right now.

Furthermore, talk is cheap when it comes to just throwing out a comment like "NDSU should be on a 10 year plan to build a 35k seat capacity dome." You're talking about a $250M project minimum. And the state has shown in the past with athletic related capital projects like the basketball facility remodel and the current plan to build an IPF that they'll require all funds to be raised privately and completely before the project can begin. So that's a monstrous fundraising undertaking when, like I said earlier, right now they're already out there try to raise about $40M for an IPF. It's easy to tell others how to spend their money but it's quite different when it's coming out of your own pocketbook.

So TL;DR until the next big shakeup of college football realignment don't expect NDSU to go anywhere.

[Houndawg]

Why would NDSU want to become a mediocre FBS school when they can be the biggest duck in a smaller pond? How are you going to get big time FBS talent to come play in Fargo, ND, when Minnesota and Wisconsin are recruiting them too? The Bison would have to be crazy to go FBS.

[jacksfan29!]

The University of North Dakota has left the Big Sky because they couldnt afford it. So they pretty much make your whole windy premise moot.

You do realize that you need to be invited into a league to move up? NDSU can't just call the MWC and state their intentions to join. The MWC is not interested in NDSU, Fargo is way out of the footprint, if the MWC would expand or replace a member they would not look to the Northern Plains. In addition, the league has shown no indication that they will ever invite an FCS school, no matter how good that school is at football.

[Professor Chaos]

You do realize that you need to be invited into a league to move up? NDSU can't just call the MWC and state their intentions to join. The MWC is not interested in NDSU, Fargo is way out of the footprint, if the MWC would expand or replace a member they would not look to the Northern Plains. In addition, the league has shown no indication that they will ever invite an FCS school, no matter how good that school is at football.
I think you're preaching to the choir with Bisonoline but this is accurate. NDSU is an outlier to the east for the MWC and an outlier to the west for the MAC (not to mention both of those conferences are currently stable with 12 teams). I highly doubt NDSU football goes anywhere without one or more regional partners who are already FCS as well. It's been mentioned many times before but I feel like the MVFC is closer competitively to the MAC than the MAC is to the Big Ten so it makes more sense for conferences like the MAC and MVFC to be in the same subdivision than it does for the MAC and the Big Ten to be in the same subdivision. Things may be trending towards that kind of a split but until then I'm pretty sure the rest of the FCS is just going to have to put up with NDSU or "St Thomas" them out.

[ST_Lawson]

I think you're preaching to the choir with Bisonoline but this is accurate. NDSU is an outlier to the east for the MWC and an outlier to the west for the MAC (not to mention both of those conferences are currently stable with 12 teams). I highly doubt NDSU football goes anywhere without one or more regional partners who are already FCS as well. It's been mentioned many times before but I feel like the MVFC is closer competitively to the MAC than the MAC is to the Big Ten so it makes more sense for conferences like the MAC and MVFC to be in the same subdivision than it does for the MAC and the Big Ten to be in the same subdivision. Things may be trending towards that kind of a split but until then I'm pretty sure the rest of the FCS is just going to have to put up with NDSU or "St Thomas" them out.

Just to be clear, I don't think either are likely any time in the near future, but I think it's more likely that we'd see NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Montana State, Montana, and a couple of others petition the NCAA to allow an en masse move to FBS and become essentially a northern "Sun Belt" (likely with NDSU becoming the "App State" of the bunch...occasionally flirting with the top 25), than it is for NDSU to be able to get themselves into an existing FBS conference. Regardless of how that aspect of things goes down, I don't think kicking the Bison out of the MVFC is the way to go, or even likely to happen either. Idk what the conference bylaws say about that sort of things...would it have to be unanimous otherwise?...just a majority voting for it? Either way, I don't think the majority of the conference would vote to kick them out.

[mvfcfan]

The "easiest" thing to do would be to have the MVC (not FC) sponsor football again. It was a 1A/1AA hybrid conference. I'm sure the MVC would he allowed to sponsor FBS football just like the WAC still can. However it would take at least 10 of the members to want to make the move so they could have a conference championship game on TV. Also the MVC is not interested in sponsoring football under the current leadership. That is why the MVFC is seperate.

Also in the history of the Gateway / MVFC only 2 schools have ever left: EIU and WKU.

[Professor Chaos]

Just to be clear, I don't think either are likely any time in the near future, but I think it's more likely that we'd see NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Montana State, Montana, and a couple of others petition the NCAA to allow an en masse move to FBS and become essentially a northern "Sun Belt" (likely with NDSU becoming the "App State" of the bunch...occasionally flirting with the top 25), than it is for NDSU to be able to get themselves into an existing FBS conference. Regardless of how that aspect of things goes down, I don't think kicking the Bison out of the MVFC is the way to go, or even likely to happen either. Idk what the conference bylaws say about that sort of things...would it have to be unanimous otherwise?...just a majority voting for it? Either way, I don't think the majority of the conference would vote to kick them out.
Agreed on the en masse move likely being the only option NDSU will have. The problem is all 4 of the Dakota schools have seen attendance declines this year (and I know that SDSU, NDSU, and UND fans have been frustrated with the lack of support compared to previous years). The "FBS now" crowd in my fan base will tell you that'll be reversed if they move FBS but that's a pretty big gamble considering the extra costs that move entails so if they're wrong and attendance stays flat or continues to decline then you're really up **** creek. I don't know if any of the other Dakota schools want to even entertain that risk right now.

[Sycamore62]

The "easiest" thing to do would be to have the MVC (not FC) sponsor football again. It was a 1A/1AA hybrid conference. I'm sure the MVC would he allowed to sponsor FBS football just like the WAC still can. However it would take at least 10 of the members to want to make the move so they could have a conference championship game on TV. Also the MVC is not interested in sponsoring football under the current leadership. That is why the MVFC is seperate.

Also in the history of the Gateway / MVFC only 2 schools have ever left: EIU and WKU.

Im not sure EIU would have left if the OVC would have let them join in other sports at the time.

[jacksfan29!]

The "easiest" thing to do would be to have the MVC (not FC) sponsor football again. It was a 1A/1AA hybrid conference. I'm sure the MVC would he allowed to sponsor FBS football just like the WAC still can. However it would take at least 10 of the members to want to make the move so they could have a conference championship game on TV. Also the MVC is not interested in sponsoring football under the current leadership. That is why the MVFC is seperate.

Also in the history of the Gateway / MVFC only 2 schools have ever left: EIU and WKU.

The MVC, as it is currently structured will never sponsor FB. The non-football playing members would never agree to it and why would they?

This entire discussion is silly. The only way things change is if NDSU (along with SDSU since it is highly unlikely NDSU do it alone) decide to move up and can find a league to join. I would not count on it happening anytime soon, possibly never. At a minimum, expect no change for at least a decade.

The "give me back the Gateway" crowd's only other hope is that the Montana schools get tired of the bloated Big Sky, get with two NDSU and SDSU schools and a new league gets formed. HIGHLY unlikely.

[IBleedYellow]

NDSU will end up fading at some point. It's inevitable. YSU dominated in the 90's and SIU in the 00's (WKU and UNI were also good). If Minnesota stays good I think that will hurt NDSU in the long run. That's not to say NDSU won't be a perennial top 25 team still, but I don't think they will dominate forever.

Have you checked the history of NDSU football?

It "faded" for about a decade.

[CappinHard]

I sort of agree with the original post. When we were only going to have 7 teams we kind of needed the Dakotas, but with Murray State we wouldn't. If we are never going to invite the Dakota schools for all sports in the MVC, I don't see why we should continue traveling up there every year just to boost up their football teams.

Adding Murray State would he nice. Would give the MVC 6 football schools so we would ensure ourselves having an auto-bid no matter what. They also have good basketball.

Can we take a vote to force you to change your handle to mvcfan? You're embarrassing actual mvfc fans.

[ST_Lawson]

The "give me back the Gateway" crowd's...

To be clear, it looks like that "crowd" is really around 1, maybe 1 1/2 people.

[mvfcfan]

I can drive to a Murray State road game. I am never going to drive to a Dakota school for a road game. A conference of INST, ILST, SIU, MUSU, MOSU, WIU, EIU, SEMO, and UNI would not hurt my feelings at all, even if it included basketball. Murray State in basketball by themselves are better than any of the private schools in the MVC.

Really has nothing to do with the Dakota schools for me. It is just a lot of travel when there are other FCS schools nearby that we could play that are 12 hours closer to home.

[BisonFan02]

The Dakota schools (in particular the XDSUs) are going to run the MVFC for the foreseeable future. I remember when the Gateway pond was supposedly big....but in a span of 10 years it has swung wildly to the west. xlolx

[JayJ79]

Gateway was it’s own thing until, for reasons I will never know the name was hijacked and rebranded Missouri Valley Football Conference.
Gateway was a womens conference until the name was hijacked for football.
Gateway football was pretty much always connected with the MVC, sharing offices and some personnel. The name change didn't really change anything but the name.

[Bisonoline]

I don't doubt it was expensive for UND.

They didn't drop out of D-I they got accepted into the Summit and the Valley.

Maybe the financials don't work for NDSU. Or is it the addiction and allure of winning? I can tell you if you are Illinois and Lovie Smith yer doing kart-wheels at a 6-6 record....sad but so very tru
FBS is nice in that every couple years you got a Big XII and a B1G comming to your house....people get used to it media acclimates to it.... you position for the next shift and slide into a more comfortable Big XII conference home.

Also NDSU does not have an enormously expensive hockey program to fund like UND did/does.

UND wasn't dropping out of D-I....of course they wanted to be where they could bus to Fargo, Brookings, Vermilion, Omaha.....

However, there was no way UND was not staying D-I. I root for the Bison I just wish they would play a schedule that challenged the coaching staff and their deep and talented roster. I have nothing but the Upmost respect for Bison football. Yes Western can leave, and if they do the Bison will still go undefeated every year. Time for Bison to get in the ring with the big boys, you are one of the best, go out and play the best.

Ok that was long winded.

You are over thinking this. To move up you need money and a home in our foot print. Nobody is beating our door down to get us to join them.

[Bisonoline]

You do realize that you need to be invited into a league to move up? NDSU can't just call the MWC and state their intentions to join. The MWC is not interested in NDSU, Fargo is way out of the footprint, if the MWC would expand or replace a member they would not look to the Northern Plains. In addition, the league has shown no indication that they will ever invite an FCS school, no matter how good that school is at football.

Of course I know that. There are some people who think you can just wave a magic wand and move up. Thats not how it works---thats not how any of--------

[Bisonoline]

The "easiest" thing to do would be to have the MVC (not FC) sponsor football again. It was a 1A/1AA hybrid conference. I'm sure the MVC would he allowed to sponsor FBS football just like the WAC still can. However it would take at least 10 of the members to want to make the move so they could have a conference championship game on TV. Also the MVC is not interested in sponsoring football under the current leadership. That is why the MVFC is seperate.

Also in the history of the Gateway / MVFC only 2 schools have ever left: EIU and WKU.

Dont forget you have to transverse the NCAA rules on moving up, how or if a league can be formed etc etc etc.

[clenz]

No Home? Mountain West is your home…why not? University of North Dakota can operate a D-I program as a member of the Big Sky but NDSU can’t operate in the same footprint?

Nonsense.


It's not as easy as "Hey, MWC. We are joining your conference. Deal with it. Holy **** you're dense if you believe NDSU can just go "We are now FBS".

The MWC has no interest in:

1. Expanding their football set up. They are currently at 12 with 2 6 team divisions. They certainly aren't looking for a football only member in Fargo, ND. I've heard they'd like to shed to 10 dropping Hawaii and San Jose State.
2. Expanding with NDSU. They are loving an 11 team set up with a 20 games conference schedule right now. However, it's no secret they'd like a 12th team for the basketball league (an all sports member). The interest in adding Fargo a a market is literal zero.
3. Adding a school that spends less on their basketballs total budget than about half the conference spends on HC salary alone.SJSU is the red headed step child of the MWSC by about a million dollars, and they spend almost three quarters a million more than NDSU does. Average basketball budget in the MWC is like 3.8 million dollars.

NDSU has no interest in
1. Moving up if it means having to fund basketball at a higher precent that could potential divert % of budget away from football.
2. Moving up to be an Indy like Liberty. That's a death wish. They aren't BYU or ND, even with the cult they've built as a fan base. Could they be a Boise State-ish program? Sure. You know what that gets you as an indy at the FBS level? Jack ****ing ****.




Clenz is predictable. “UNI is better than the Dakotas…..Summit is lame…. I’m leaving you!” “Wait, I didn’t mean it…I sorry I’ll change I promise.” Also Clenz everybody on this board knows that you think Western Illinois University is a steaming pile of S***. I mean time wasted here is an opportunity lost to push a Freshman into the lockers or make fun of a kid that looks different or isn’t popular.

This is just dumb.

I've made no mistake that the MVC teams and Summit teams have very different goals as athletic departments and as conferences. I do think WIU is on it's death bed just waiting for the electricity to their machine to go out. It's not entirely the institution's, leadership, employees, etc. fault. It's a tiny regional school without a "renowned" academic program in the region (ala business and teaching at UNI), in a state that has been hilariously mismanaged in so many ways, in a tiny city with no population base to support it and almost no ability to recruit a student body. Your student body has shrunk 40% since 2006. That satellite campus that was opened in the quad cities that was expected to boost enrollment by 3-4k a year is down to under 1,000 enrolled students.

The issue isn't NDSU. It's your school.



This "NDSU needs to leave" is the dumbest ****ing **** I've ever heard on this forum (or anywhere I read it). The Gateway was pretty damn close to life support in 2007 when the DSU's were added. WKU was on it's way out. Surviving as a 6 or 7 team conference is...well...look at the Big South.

If you can't/won't support your university/athletic department at a D1 level, YOU are the issue. Not other schools doing that.


Now, things I don't care to get too involved with right now

What NDSU fans don't entirely get - you have a cult of NDSU football. 100% kudos to you, Fargo and the school for building it. That deserves all the credit in the world.

However, this idea of "just get better and get more money" isn't something that exists in the FCS. As a subdivision we aren't large schools with large alumni bases with significant money that care that deeply about one single sport. You have that. Great. I agree others have to get better. Others have to commit to it. I'm on your side. However, largely the "just ****ing get better you schlub" and the way you present it largely ignores what NDSU is in relation to the FCS and honestly 90% of the G5. Again, that's a credit to you, however, that blinds your ability to see the past the Cult of Snorty.

[uni88]

I do think WIU is on it's death bed just waiting for the electricity to their machine to go out. It's not entirely the institution's, leadership, employees, etc. fault. It's a tiny regional school without a "renowned" academic program in the region (ala business and teaching at UNI), in a state that has been hilariously mismanaged in so many ways, in a tiny city with no population base to support it and almost no ability to recruit a student body. Your student body has shrunk 40% since 2006. That satellite campus that was opened in the quad cities that was expected to boost enrollment by 3-4k a year is down to under 1,000 enrolled students.


This isn't entirely true, WIU does have good Criminal Justice (http://www.wiu.edu/news/newsrelease.php?release_id=16660) and Sports Management programs. Unfortunately I doubt if those programs combined draw nearly as many students as teaching or business.

[clenz]

This isn't entirely true, WIU does have good Criminal Justice (http://www.wiu.edu/news/newsrelease.php?release_id=16660) and Sports Management programs. Unfortunately I doubt if those programs combined draw nearly as many students as teaching or business.
That's the difference.

Having programs you do well - especially smaller/more "niche" majors - is very different than doing large programs that make up entire departments/colleges within a university to a high level.

Difference in programs and entire departments.

It's not "business admin" majors that is UNI's CoB draw - though that's a pretty solid base. It's UNI's entire business program, especially the accounting and management side. The MBA program is highly rated nationally.

WIU can/does have programs. Specific small programs don't a university fund and draw

[Baron Sardonicus]

Gateway to what is the question.

You may be ruled by dogma without realizing it. Do not let it erase the knowledge of your journey.

[cx500d]

This is the most inane thread not on the political board.

[uni88]

What NDSU fans don't entirely get - you have a cult of NDSU football. 100% kudos to you, Fargo and the school for building it. That deserves all the credit in the world.

However, this idea of "just get better and get more money" isn't something that exists in the FCS. As a subdivision we aren't large schools with large alumni bases with significant money that care that deeply about one single sport. You have that. Great. I agree others have to get better. Others have to commit to it. I'm on your side. However, largely the "just ****ing get better you schlub" and the way you present it largely ignores what NDSU is in relation to the FCS and honestly 90% of the G5. Again, that's a credit to you, however, that blinds your ability to see the past the Cult of Snorty.

I love how some in the "Cult of Snorty" want people to simultaneously believe:

That the Bison came into FCS naked, starving and broke and somehow built this dynasty from scratch without any advantages that the vast majority of FCS schools don't have.
That if not for the transition rules they would have won Nattys in 2006 & 2007

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I love how some in the "Cult of Snorty" want people to simultaneously believe:

That the Bison came into FCS naked, starving and broke and somehow built this dynasty from scratch without any advantages that the vast majority of FCS schools don't have.
That if not for the transition rules they would have won Nattys in 2006 & 2007




What distinct advantages does NDSU have over the majority of the FCS? This should be good since you have such an acute knowledge of the pulse of NDSU.

[Thumper 76]

What distinct advantages does NDSU have over the majority of the FCS? This should be good since you have such an acute knowledge of the pulse of NDSU.

Like, you honestly want this answer or is it rhetorical? Cause there are a couple things. They aren’t what has made the last decade happen, but they don’t hurt....

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Like, you honestly want this answer or is it rhetorical? Cause there are a couple things. They aren’t what has made the last decade happen, but they don’t hurt....

And they are what?

[IBleedYellow]

However, this idea of "just get better and get more money" isn't something that exists in the FCS. As a subdivision we aren't large schools with large alumni bases with significant money that care that deeply about one single sport. You have that. Great. I agree others have to get better. Others have to commit to it. I'm on your side. However, largely the "just ****ing get better you schlub" and the way you present it largely ignores what NDSU is in relation to the FCS and honestly 90% of the G5. Again, that's a credit to you, however, that blinds your ability to see the past the Cult of Snorty.


If that's the case, then the FCS is in for a world of trouble for the foreseeable future. Looking @ the wings of NDSU football, we have players chomping @ the bit to play, and there are guys behind them. If the FCS isn't going to get better, and NDSU doesn't look like it's slowing down on it's improvements either...something has to give.

What will it be?

My guess: FCOA is going to get limited by the Valley sooner rather than later. Just like in the D2 days NDSU was better funded than everyone else, so they started limiting the scholarships, etc. If that is what the subdivision is going to do, that's lame as hell. That's intentionally bringing NDSU down instead of rising up to the challenge.

[mvfcfan]

Doesn't the city own the Fargodome? Most FCS programs don't get to play in city built domes. Also most FCS programs have to recruit against other FCS programs in the nearby area. Then finally most FCS programs don't draw well because of FBS programs being nearby. Most of us aren't the most popular program in our state.

I know of ISU grads that will go to IU, Purdue, Illinois, and Notre Dame games, but won't go to ISU games.

[Thumper 76]

And they are what?

Specifically not having a actual successful FBS power team within a 3 hour drive of your fans base. Not many schools can have that actual luxury. To pretend it makes no difference when it comes to attendance and support is a bit silly. For a closer example of SDSU, even with the mountains of success ndsu had during the DII years do you honestly think they have the following they do with the Huskers doing what they did during the same time period? Honestly? Or having a SEC school in your backyard? Or an Iowa? You have a nice thing with having the hapless since the 50’s Goofers being the closest Power 5 team 4 hours away. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not THE reason or even a main reason ndsu is what it is today, but it 100% doesn’t hurt when it comes to building a rabid fan base to get donations from. The winning years in DII laid the foundation but not many DII squads can get the following ndsu was able to build due to its isolation. Add to it being located in a metro that has basically zero overshadowing NFL and power 5 presence due to what I mentioned, it certainly helps.


*every school has their own advantages and disadvantages, this is one that ndsu has and pretty much any school without Montana in the name doesn’t have*

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

If that's the case, then the FCS is in for a world of trouble for the foreseeable future. Looking @ the wings of NDSU football, we have players chomping @ the bit to play, and there are guys behind them. If the FCS isn't going to get better, and NDSU doesn't look like it's slowing down on it's improvements either...something has to give.

What will it be?

My guess: FCOA is going to get limited by the Valley sooner rather than later. Just like in the D2 days NDSU was better funded than everyone else, so they started limiting the scholarships, etc. If that is what the subdivision is going to do, that's lame as hell. That's intentionally bringing NDSU down instead of rising up to the challenge.



Why would this even be considered?

Any school can go out and hit the pavement and fund raise to get the $$ for COA.

[IBleedYellow]

Why would this even be considered?

Any school can go out and hit the pavement and fund raise to get the $$ for COA.

Anything to limit NDSU's ability to recruit will be seen as a help for the FCS.

[IBleedYellow]

Also, people don't realize this **** didn't start overnight. NDSU's fundraising arm was built from the ground up in the 50s...

[clenz]

If that's the case, then the FCS is in for a world of trouble for the foreseeable future. Looking @ the wings of NDSU football, we have players chomping @ the bit to play, and there are guys behind them. If the FCS isn't going to get better, and NDSU doesn't look like it's slowing down on it's improvements either...something has to give.

No ****ing ****.

The FCS exists to be a level of relative cost containment. It's literally why the entire ****ing subvision exists. It's why every school that wanted to outspend every one (WKU, App State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, Texas State, etc.) has ****ing left except NDSU and JMU (who is actively looking for a way out as fast as they can).

I'm not faulting NDSU at all for doing what they do. Do it more. I don't give a ****. Good for them.

However, there will come a tipping point for NDSU - and we are starting to see it and you know it and have mentioned it. Eventually being the blue whale in a pond starts to have impacts. Fans aren't going to games like they have been. The ROI required for tickets to see NDSU beat up on Western Illinois and Indiana State starts to lose luster some. The FCS titles start to feel like "There has to be more out there". It's happening, and you can deny it on this site but you know it to be true.

There will be a breaking point. I don't know what it will look like or where it comes from.

Remember, I'm 99% on the get better side. It's the outliers that get cut off (on both ends) when they exist for too long.

[Professor Chaos]

Specifically not having a actual successful FBS power team within a 3 hour drive of your fans base. Not many schools can have that actual luxury. To pretend it makes no difference when it comes to attendance and support is a bit silly. For a closer example of SDSU, even with the mountains of success ndsu had during the DII years do you honestly think they have the following they do with the Huskers doing what they did during the same time period? Honestly? Or having a SEC school in your backyard? Or an Iowa? You have a nice thing with having the hapless since the 50’s Goofers being the closest Power 5 team 4 hours away. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not THE reason or even a main reason ndsu is what it is today, but it 100% doesn’t hurt when it comes to building a rabid fan base to get donations from. The winning years in DII laid the foundation but not many DII squads can get the following ndsu was able to build due to its isolation. Add to it being located in a metro that has basically zero overshadowing NFL and power 5 presence due to what I mentioned, it certainly helps.


*every school has their own advantages and disadvantages, this is one that ndsu has and pretty much any school without Montana in the name doesn’t have*
If I was a Husker fan living in Sioux Falls I would probably be looking at finding some SDSU gear and heading to Brookings on weekends for games instead of to Lincoln. UNL is closer to Minnesota as a football program right now than they are to Ohio St.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Specifically not having a actual successful FBS power team within a 3 hour drive of your fans base. Not many schools can have that actual luxury. To pretend it makes no difference when it comes to attendance and support is a bit silly. For a closer example of SDSU, even with the mountains of success ndsu had during the DII years do you honestly think they have the following they do with the Huskers doing what they did during the same time period? Honestly? Or having a SEC school in your backyard? Or an Iowa? You have a nice thing with having the hapless since the 50’s Goofers being the closest Power 5 team 4 hours away. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not THE reason or even a main reason ndsu is what it is today, but it 100% doesn’t hurt when it comes to building a rabid fan base to get donations from. The winning years in DII laid the foundation but not many DII squads can get the following ndsu was able to build due to its isolation. Add to it being located in a metro that has basically zero overshadowing NFL and power 5 presence due to what I mentioned, it certainly helps.


*every school has their own advantages and disadvantages, this is one that ndsu has and pretty much any school without Montana in the name doesn’t have*


So let me ask you this. In the D2 days, SDSU was mediocre at best and had 1 playoff appearance in their whole D2 era. I don't know what kind of support the Jacks had then but the Cornhusker success of the 60s, 70s and 80s hurt or hindered SDSU is some ways like attendance and support being close?

SDSU made a commitment to be a FCS power and it shows with their facilities now. They have laid the groundwork. Others schools could do this also. It is a matter of commitment and fund raising.

NDSU made a commitment in the early 60s not to be a pathetic football program. They started TeamMakers to help support athletic scholarships. They created a culture of winning and support for the Bison athletic teams and that has continued to today.

Does not having a P5 team right by help? Maybe but that wouldn't change how the program is supported by the alum. We are not a huge school, attendance wise and probably never will be. But NDSU does a great job of connecting with the alum to support the school. There are other FCS schools that fund their football program at a higher level than NDSU and are not as successful. The Insiders on radio 1660 were talking about this subject today. NDSU doesn't even get funded fairly in our own state compared with the tiny ass schools that shouldn't even be open.

[Thumper 76]

If I was a Husker fan living in Sioux Falls I would probably be looking at finding some SDSU gear and heading to Brookings on weekends for games instead. UNL is closer to Minnesota as a football program right now than they are to Ohio St.

Yeah, not in their fans minds though. If you grew up a Huskers fan what are you going to do, drive an hour and sit in the cold or sit and watch both teams on your couch. I agree completely with you but right now we’re not taking advantage of it in part because to a lot of our causal fans we can be as good as we want but we’ll still lose to ndsu. That’s up to us to fix though.

This is kinda my point though, ndsu fans (I know you’re being sort of a smartass) don’t really know how deep that sort of fan base goes for those folks who grew up with it. It would be like an ndsu fan starting to buy Goofer gear because ndsu is having a down stretch.

[ST_Lawson]

This isn't entirely true, WIU does have good Criminal Justice (http://www.wiu.edu/news/newsrelease.php?release_id=16660) and Sports Management programs. Unfortunately I doubt if those programs combined draw nearly as many students as teaching or business.

In 2018, Criminal Justice (we call it Law Enforcement and Justice Administration...LEJA) had over 1,300 students in it, which is more than double any other program we have. Educational Studies was at 276, for comparison. LEJA is by far the biggest program we have.

[Sycamore62]

Gateway to what is the question.

You may be ruled by dogma without realizing it. Do not let it erase the knowledge of your journey.

Gateway to the West. over 600 feet tall and there's an elevator all the way to the top. that's over 60 stories to you and me.

[uni88]

And they are what?

This has been discussed before but as another poster on another thread called it "affinity." Schools in smaller population states (Dakotas, Montana & Delaware) are the primary schools in their states and this helps with fan support which helps with gameday atmosphere, fundraising, merchandise sales, etc. I would also guess that these schools typically receive more funding from their states than the directional universities that are left begging for table scraps after the FBS schools in their states have been funded.

Thumper makes a good point about proximity to P5 schools as well which helps the North Dakota and Montana schools compared to South Dakota schools.

And as Thumper says "They aren’t what has made the last decade happen, but they don’t hurt." NDSU (and the other Dakota schools) did not come into FCS "naked, starving and broke."

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This has been discussed before but as another poster on another thread called it "affinity." Schools in smaller population states (Dakotas, Montana & Delaware) are the primary schools in their states and this helps with fan support which helps with gameday atmosphere, fundraising, merchandise sales, etc. I would also guess that these schools typically receive more funding from their states than the directional universities that are left begging for table scraps after the FBS schools in their states have been funded.

Thumper makes a good point about proximity to P5 schools as well which helps the North Dakota and Montana schools compared to South Dakota schools.

And as Thumper says "They aren’t what has made the last decade happen, but they don’t hurt." NDSU (and the other Dakota schools) did not come into FCS "naked, starving and broke."


Wrong.

As I mentioned earlier, NDSU gets short changed because there are so many tiny ass schools that should not be open. 11 in this state.

Now if NDSU was like Wyoming where they were the only higher ed institution getting all the $$ then I would agree.

[IBleedYellow]

This has been discussed before but as another poster on another thread called it "affinity." Schools in smaller population states (Dakotas, Montana & Delaware) are the primary schools in their states and this helps with fan support which helps with gameday atmosphere, fundraising, merchandise sales, etc. I would also guess that these schools typically receive more funding from their states than the directional universities that are left begging for table scraps after the FBS schools in their states have been funded.

Thumper makes a good point about proximity to P5 schools as well which helps the North Dakota and Montana schools compared to South Dakota schools.

And as Thumper says "They aren’t what has made the last decade happen, but they don’t hurt." NDSU (and the other Dakota schools) did not come into FCS "naked, starving and broke."

3 of them did. One of those 3 reinvented itself and is a completely different program than when it existed in it's D2 days (that would be South Dakota State University).

[Thumper 76]

So let me ask you this. In the D2 days, SDSU was mediocre at best and had 1 playoff appearance in their whole D2 era. I don't know what kind of support the Jacks had then but the Cornhusker success of the 60s, 70s and 80s hurt or hindered SDSU is some ways like attendance and support being close?

SDSU made a commitment to be a FCS power and it shows with their facilities now. They have laid the groundwork. Others schools could do this also. It is a matter of commitment and fund raising.

NDSU made a commitment in the early 60s not to be a pathetic football program. They started TeamMakers to help support athletic scholarships. They created a culture of winning and support for the Bison athletic teams and that has continued to today.

Does not having a P5 team right by help? Maybe but that wouldn't change how the program is supported by the alum. We are not a huge school, attendance wise and probably never will be. But NDSU does a great job of connecting with the alum to support the school. There are other FCS schools that fund their football program at a higher level than NDSU and are not as successful. The Insiders on radio 1660 were talking about this subject today. NDSU doesn't even get funded fairly in our own state compared with the tiny ass schools that shouldn't even be open.

See, that’s what you’re missing though having not grown up in an area with a big time FBS power. When that happens and you go to a FCS or smaller school in state, that kid stays a fan of the big FBS school and sort of adopts the school they go to as their “second team”. Look I’m not crying poor us or anything but ndsu fans LITERALLY don’t know what it’s like to have a state with a FBS team that has a real following. Minnesota isn’t followed in their own state barely as an FBS team. They just sold out their stadium for the first time. Grow up in Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Texas, Washington, etc and it’s a whoooooole different world that ndsu fans can’t grasp fully because they haven’t grown up with it. It’s like southern people arguing that while it’s not “as cold” it’s still pretty close sometimes during the winter. Till you been there, oh don’t really get it.

SDSU started itself behind the 8 ball a looooong time ago and now has to try to dig out from this mess. That said, even IF SDSU was a DII power when ndsu started they still would have lost out to the Huskers in a big way. Not being in the same state would have helped a LOT for us, but there still would be a lot of folks in our main population area for fan base that followed the Huskers cause they’re the “big time” team. It’s something we’re starting to gain traction on now, and we have a golden opportunity to take advantage of, but we have a ways to go.

[clenz]

See, that’s what you’re missing though having not grown up in an area with a big time FBS power. When that happens and you go to a FCS or smaller school in state, that kid stays a fan of the big FBS school and sort of adopts the school they go to as their “second team”. Look I’m not crying poor us or anything but ndsu fans LITERALLY don’t know what it’s like to have a state with a FBS team that has a real following. Minnesota isn’t followed in their own state barely as an FBS team. They just sold out their stadium for the first time. Grow up in Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Texas, Washington, etc and it’s a whoooooole different world that ndsu fans can’t grasp fully because they haven’t grown up with it. It’s like southern people arguing that while it’s not “as cold” it’s still pretty close sometimes during the winter. Till you been there, oh don’t really get it.

SDSU started itself behind the 8 ball a looooong time ago and now has to try to dig out from this mess. That said, even IF SDSU was a DII power when ndsu started they still would have lost out to the Huskers in a big way. Not being in the same state would have helped a LOT for us, but there still would be a lot of folks in our main population area for fan base that followed the Huskers cause they’re the “big time” team. It’s something we’re starting to gain traction on now, and we have a golden opportunity to take advantage of, but we have a ways to go.All the rep points.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

3 of them did. One of those 3 reinvented itself and is a completely different program than when it existed in it's D2 days (that would be South Dakota State University).


I would almost even put an asterisk by UND.

For all of the crap we Bison fans give UND, they are a national brand because of their hockey program. It is one of the best college programs in the country and they have a rabid following to their away games. Niche sport....yes, but they are recognized all over the country.

[IBleedYellow]

See, that’s what you’re missing though having not grown up in an area with a big time FBS power. When that happens and you go to a FCS or smaller school in state, that kid stays a fan of the big FBS school and sort of adopts the school they go to as their “second team”. Look I’m not crying poor us or anything but ndsu fans LITERALLY don’t know what it’s like to have a state with a FBS team that has a real following. Minnesota isn’t followed in their own state barely as an FBS team. They just sold out their stadium for the first time. Grow up in Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Texas, Washington, etc and it’s a whoooooole different world that ndsu fans can’t grasp fully because they haven’t grown up with it. It’s like southern people arguing that while it’s not “as cold” it’s still pretty close sometimes during the winter. Till you been there, oh don’t really get it.

SDSU started itself behind the 8 ball a looooong time ago and now has to try to dig out from this mess. That said, even IF SDSU was a DII power when ndsu started they still would have lost out to the Huskers in a big way. Not being in the same state would have helped a LOT for us, but there still would be a lot of folks in our main population area for fan base that followed the Huskers cause they’re the “big time” team. It’s something we’re starting to gain traction on now, and we have a golden opportunity to take advantage of, but we have a ways to go.


Wanna stop saying "SDSU" and "ndsu"?

If not, I guess it can be sdsu forever, too.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

See, that’s what you’re missing though having not grown up in an area with a big time FBS power. When that happens and you go to a FCS or smaller school in state, that kid stays a fan of the big FBS school and sort of adopts the school they go to as their “second team”. Look I’m not crying poor us or anything but ndsu fans LITERALLY don’t know what it’s like to have a state with a FBS team that has a real following. Minnesota isn’t followed in their own state barely as an FBS team. They just sold out their stadium for the first time. Grow up in Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Texas, Washington, etc and it’s a whoooooole different world that ndsu fans can’t grasp fully because they haven’t grown up with it. It’s like southern people arguing that while it’s not “as cold” it’s still pretty close sometimes during the winter. Till you been there, oh don’t really get it.

SDSU started itself behind the 8 ball a looooong time ago and now has to try to dig out from this mess. That said, even IF SDSU was a DII power when ndsu started they still would have lost out to the Huskers in a big way. Not being in the same state would have helped a LOT for us, but there still would be a lot of folks in our main population area for fan base that followed the Huskers cause they’re the “big time” team. It’s something we’re starting to gain traction on now, and we have a golden opportunity to take advantage of, but we have a ways to go.


Pecking order in MN for fan faithfulness:

1. Vikings
2. Vikings
3. Vikings
4. Vikings
5. Vikings
6. Vikings
7. Vikings
8. Twins
9. Wild
10. Gophers -- and this is being nice at #10


** edit: Actually Gopher hockey used to be in the top 10 IMO but since they moved to the Big 10 hockey conference, their attendance has taken a big hit. Playing all the MN schools and UND 2X year and now just a couple of OOC series has hurt their fan support.

[Thumper 76]

Pecking order in MN for fan faithfulness:

1. Vikings
2. Vikings
3. Vikings
4. Vikings
5. Vikings
6. Vikings
7. Vikings
8. Twins
9. Wild
10. Gophers -- and this is being nice at #10

xlolx you forgot the Lynx

Also, to be 100% fair, SDSU has the same advantage as ndsu to a lesser extent due to being in our own state. It would be the exact same if Nebraska wasn’t Nebraska and to a lesser extent Iowa being Iowa

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

xlolx you forgot the Lynx

Also, to be 100% fair, SDSU has the same advantage as ndsu to a lesser extent due to being in our own state. It would be the exact same if Nebraska wasn’t Nebraska and to a lesser extent Iowa being Iowa


I have never watched a WNBA game and probably never will.

[Professor Chaos]

xlolx you forgot the Lynx

Also, to be 100% fair, SDSU has the same advantage as ndsu to a lesser extent due to being in our own state. It would be the exact same if Nebraska wasn’t Nebraska and to a lesser extent Iowa being Iowa
I get what you're trying to say Thumper but if it's so hard for SDSU to draw fans due to their (and Sioux Falls) proximity to Nebraska and Iowa how do they fill an 11,000 seat basketball arena for the Summit League Tournament every March?

[Thumper 76]

I get what you're trying to say Thumper but if it's so hard for SDSU to draw fans due to their (and Sioux Falls) proximity to Nebraska and Iowa how do they fill an 11,000 seat basketball arena for the Summit League Tournament every March?

Cause Husker and Iowa fans tend to be like a lot of ndsu fans. Football.


Oh and SDSU is a basketball school. Duh. No travel to the tourney either xlolx

[Professor Chaos]

Cause Husker and Iowa fans tend to be like a lot of ndsu fans. Football.
So you're saying those are a bunch of Iowa and Nebraska football fans who are dressed in blue filling up the Premier Center in early March?

FWIW, I fully admit that the answer I'm looking for is essentially is the same answer I'd have to give if asked "How does NDSU bring 15K+ to Frisco in early January but can't muster more than a few hundred to Sioux Falls in early March?"

EDIT: Saw your edit. We're in agreement. NDSU is a football school and SDSU is a basketball school. Is it what it is and unfortunately the "2nd program" at each gets crap for support.

[uni88]

Wrong.

As I mentioned earlier, NDSU gets short changed because there are so many tiny ass schools that should not be open. 11 in this state.

Now if NDSU was like Wyoming where they were the only higher ed institution getting all the $$ then I would agree.

Are you sure about that? How much does NDSU receive from the state? We're comparing NDSU to other FCS schools not just UND. My preliminary research shows NDSU is receiving about $130 million while UNI is receiving about $97 million. I would guess that there's a bigger discrepancy for the Illinois schools.

What college football team do most kids in North Dakota cheer for? I would guess some cheer for UND but more cheer for NDSU. When those kids go to college do they change their allegiance or do they keep cheering for the Bison (or UND) even though they're going to Minot or Williston? When they graduate they are potential Bison season ticketholders and contributors. In Iowa, UNI is more like Minot or Williston from a fan-support perspective. Iowa probably has 60-70% and Iowa State 20-30% of the state's college fans. UNI splits the remaining 10% with Nebraska and a other nearby state schools. And the vast majority of UNI's share is alumni. That gives us a smaller fanbase which impacts gameday atmosphere and fundraising.

What NDSU has accomplished is amazing but they do have advantages that they're able to leverage.

[Thumper 76]

So you're saying those are a bunch of Iowa and Nebraska football fans who are dressed in blue filling up the Premier Center in early March?

FWIW, I fully admit that the answer I'm looking for is essentially is the same answer I'd have to give if asked "How does NDSU bring 15K+ to Frisco in early January but can't muster more than a few hundred to Sioux Falls in early March?"

EDIT: Saw your edit. We're in agreement. NDSU is a football school and SDSU is a basketball school. Is it what it is and unfortunately the "2nd program" at each gets crap for support.

Also, the question posed was what advantage does ndsu have that most of the FCS does not. I fully admitted SDSU has a similar advantage just not to the same extent due to being in its own state. The majority of FCS schools do not have that. And downplaying the significance of the difference between Iowa/Nebraska fans and Minnesota fans being your neighbors, never mind how much closer Lincoln is to Sioux Falls than the cities to Fargo, is either never being around that type of area before or just willful ignorance tbh. However, SDSU is fully capable of having enough fans to fill the Dana regularly, we haven’t built a culture to do it yet because we just got real good under a decade ago. Ndsu has that advantage because your fan base grew up going to ndsu games (ala IBY), which is also a benefit of no close P5. You (ndsu fans) grew up following ndsu for a good chunk of them, whereas a lot of SDSU fans grew up following a P5 team and SDSU on the side at best. It’s going to take some time.

[Thumper 76]

Wanna stop saying "SDSU" and "ndsu"?

If not, I guess it can be sdsu forever, too.

Sir I’ve been doing this for roughly two years or more, it’s my kind of petty xlolx

Also, I can’t mess with tradition at this point

[Professor Chaos]

Sir I’ve been doing this for roughly two years or more, it’s my kind of petty xlolx

Also, I can’t mess with tradition at this point
Well whatever you've been doing for the last two years in terms of NDSU football voodoo keep doing it!

[Thumper 76]

Well whatever you've been doing for the last two years in terms of NDSU football voodoo keep doing it!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191118/c65a09ac9248f2bc97935ccc3971fe2d.jpg

[ST_Lawson]

Are you sure about that? How much does NDSU receive from the state? We're comparing NDSU to other FCS schools not just UND. My preliminary research shows NDSU is receiving about $130 million while UNI is receiving about $97 million. I would guess that there's a bigger discrepancy for the Illinois schools.

What college football team do most kids in North Dakota cheer for? I would guess some cheer for UND but more cheer for NDSU. When those kids go to college do they change their allegiance or do they keep cheering for the Bison (or UND) even though they're going to Minot or Williston? When they graduate they are potential Bison season ticketholders and contributors. In Iowa, UNI is more like Minot or Williston from a fan-support perspective. Iowa probably has 60-70% and Iowa State 20-30% of the state's college fans. UNI splits the remaining 10% with Nebraska and a other nearby state schools. And the vast majority of UNI's share is alumni. That gives us a smaller fanbase which impacts gameday atmosphere and fundraising.

What NDSU has accomplished is amazing but they do have advantages that they're able to leverage.

For comparison purposes, here's what the FY2020 budget allocation is for the Illinois state schools (in millions, then as a % of the state 4-year higher ed budget, not including community colleges):
Chicago State: $36.9, 3.16%
Eastern Illinois: $41.4, 3.55%
Governors State: $23.1, 1.99%
Illinois State: $69.8, 5.98%
Northeastern State: $35.6, 3.05%
Northern Illinois: $87.8, 7.53%
Southern Illinois: $194.9, 16.7% (this includes SIU-C, SIU-E, and the SIU School of Medicine in Springfield)
U of Illinois: $627.5, 53.78% (includes UIUC, UIC, UIS, etc.)
Western Illinois: $49.6, 4.25% (includes Macomb and QC campuses)

In the document I was looking at, I couldn't find a breakdown of how much each of the separate schools in the SIU and U of I systems receive.

But the point is, this year, EIU gets ~$41.4M, ILSU gets ~$69.8M, and WIU gets $49.6M. If NDSU is getting allocated $130 million from their state budget, they're getting more than WIU, EIU, and Chicago State combined. Also, those numbers I stated for the IL schools are all an increase over last year, but are still down significantly from the high of 2002, when I think WIU received around $56M (I'll have to go look that up).

And from the fan's perspective...I see as many Illinois, Iowa, and Wisconsin shirts being worn by our students as I see WIU shirts.

[IBleedYellow]

Sir I’ve been doing this for roughly two years or more, it’s my kind of petty xlolx

Also, I can’t mess with tradition at this pointThe tradition of NDSU beating you and winning National Titles and you....not? [emoji23]

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[JayJ79]

The FCS exists to be a level of relative cost containment. It's literally why the entire ****ing subvision exists. It's why every school that wanted to outspend every one (WKU, App State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, Texas State, etc.) has ****ing left except NDSU and JMU (who is actively looking for a way out as fast as they can).

This. (holy ****, I'm agreeing with clenz on something. is the world ending? xlolx ). the "everyone else just needs to get better" line runs contrary to the whole notion of the FCS.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Are you sure about that? How much does NDSU receive from the state? We're comparing NDSU to other FCS schools not just UND. My preliminary research shows NDSU is receiving about $130 million while UNI is receiving about $97 million. I would guess that there's a bigger discrepancy for the Illinois schools.

What college football team do most kids in North Dakota cheer for? I would guess some cheer for UND but more cheer for NDSU. When those kids go to college do they change their allegiance or do they keep cheering for the Bison (or UND) even though they're going to Minot or Williston? When they graduate they are potential Bison season ticketholders and contributors. In Iowa, UNI is more like Minot or Williston from a fan-support perspective. Iowa probably has 60-70% and Iowa State 20-30% of the state's college fans. UNI splits the remaining 10% with Nebraska and a other nearby state schools. And the vast majority of UNI's share is alumni. That gives us a smaller fanbase which impacts gameday atmosphere and fundraising.

What NDSU has accomplished is amazing but they do have advantages that they're able to leverage.


The 2 big universities are going to get a larger % of the money because they have more students ( no brainer) but base rate per credit hour is totally different:

NDSU/UND for the 2 year cycle (2017-2019) get $58.65 per credit hour. Smaller schools like Dickinson State, Mayville, Valley City get $86.95 per credit hour and the JUCOS get $93.03.


There are way too many higher ed institutions in this state and there are too many mouths to feed.

They need to get rid of Mayville, Valley City, Dickinson for the 4 year schools and Williston, Bottineau and Lake Region for the 2 year schools.

[IBleedYellow]

Cause Husker and Iowa fans tend to be like a lot of ndsu fans. Football.


Oh and SDSU is a basketball school. Duh. No travel to the tourney either xlolxI would be willing to bet HEAVILY that if the Summit League tournament wasn't in SF there would not be near the amount of SDSU fans. Even if it was 2.5 hrs away they wouldn't show up.

At this point we know with certainty that rabbit fans won't drive 45 minutes or pay $20 for tickets. Too much money.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Bisonoline]

No ****ing ****.

The FCS exists to be a level of relative cost containment. It's literally why the entire ****ing subvision exists. It's why every school that wanted to outspend every one (WKU, App State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, Texas State, etc.) has ****ing left except NDSU and JMU (who is actively looking for a way out as fast as they can).

I'm not faulting NDSU at all for doing what they do. Do it more. I don't give a ****. Good for them.

However, there will come a tipping point for NDSU - and we are starting to see it and you know it and have mentioned it. Eventually being the blue whale in a pond starts to have impacts. Fans aren't going to games like they have been. The ROI required for tickets to see NDSU beat up on Western Illinois and Indiana State starts to lose luster some. The FCS titles start to feel like "There has to be more out there". It's happening, and you can deny it on this site but you know it to be true.

There will be a breaking point. I don't know what it will look like or where it comes from.

Remember, I'm 99% on the get better side. It's the outliers that get cut off (on both ends) when they exist for too long.

I had never thought of that. Thanks for the perspective!

[IBleedYellow]

I had never thought of that. Thanks for the perspective!We're a football school in the "basketball schools that sort of enjoy football" subdivision.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[TheKingpin28]

We're a football school in the "basketball schools that sort of enjoy football" subdivision.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Hence the Pioneer League. If you will not fund D1 athletics, drop to D2.

[Professor Chaos]

I'll just leave this here.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087397888_c6ae9c0c74_o.jpg

Source: http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/reports/858df74b

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Geez.....JMU spends about twice as much as NDSU.....xeekx

You would think that Montana State spending over a million more than NDSU would have produced a win in Fargo last year.....xlolx:D


The list has SDSU at over 6 million spent on football.

[Thumper 76]

Geez.....JMU spends about twice as much as NDSU.....xeekx

You would think that Montana State spending over a million more than NDSU would have produced a win in Fargo last year.....xlolx:D


The list has SDSU at over 6 million spent on football.

I’m curious as hell where that number is actually coming from cause that’s 2xs over any number I’ve ever seen associated with the SDSU football team. Hell, that would be 25% of the total athletic budget.....

[ST_Lawson]

I’m curious as hell where that number is actually coming from cause that’s 2xs over any number I’ve ever seen associated with the SDSU football team. Hell, that would be 25% of the total athletic budget.....

Is...is that not normal? Not that we're an example that anyone should be following, but our total athletics budget is $12.9M and we spend $3.32M on football, which is ~25.7%.

[Thumper 76]

Is...is that not normal? Not that we're an example that anyone should be following, but our total athletics budget is $12.9M and we spend $3.32M on football, which is ~25.7%.

I’ll have to re look up our budget numbers but the last I remember seeing for the SDSU football budget was in the $3-$4mil ranger and we were in the bottom half of the conference

[Thumper 76]

I would be willing to bet HEAVILY that if the Summit League tournament wasn't in SF there would not be near the amount of SDSU fans. Even if it was 2.5 hrs away they wouldn't show up.

At this point we know with certainty that rabbit fans won't drive 45 minutes or pay $20 for tickets. Too much money.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Basketball school

[Professor Chaos]

I’m curious as hell where that number is actually coming from cause that’s 2xs over any number I’ve ever seen associated with the SDSU football team. Hell, that would be 25% of the total athletic budget.....
I think SDSU's number was inflated in 2017 for some reason. If you go back and look (2017 is the most recent year they have data for) they worked up from $2.5M in 2012 to $3.5M 2016. Maybe it was some one-time expense from the new stadium? If you look at their "Facilities and Equipment" expenses in the total athletic budget it went from $2.28M in 2016 to $5.52M in 2017.

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fcs/south-dakota-state-university#!quicktabs-tab-institution_data-2

[BisonFan02]

I think SDSU's number was inflated in 2017 for some reason. If you go back and look (2017 is the most recent year they have data for) they worked up from $2.5M in 2012 to $3.5M 2016. Maybe it was some one-time expense from the new stadium?

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fcs/south-dakota-state-university#!quicktabs-tab-institution_data-2

It's the stadium.

[TheKingpin28]

Geez.....JMU spends about twice as much as NDSU.....xeekx

You would think that Montana State spending over a million more than NDSU would have produced a win in Fargo last year.....xlolx:D


The list has SDSU at over 6 million spent on football.

I thought Stig only needed 1 million more? How much money does one need to continue to be a little brother?

[Thumper 76]

I thought Stig only needed 1 million more? How much money does one need to continue to be a little brother?

Well when the city buys your stadium for you the $5 mil tends to go further than the $6 mil does. So in actual budget for the team terms, yeah we’re behind a ways. It’s like living at mom and dads house in your late 30’s and not having to pay rent and asking why your friends can’t get as nice of stuff as you can or go to Vegas with you with the same sized paycheck xcoffeex

[X-Factor]

The 2 big universities are going to get a larger % of the money because they have more students ( no brainer) but base rate per credit hour is totally different:

NDSU/UND for the 2 year cycle (2017-2019) get $58.65 per credit hour. Smaller schools like Dickinson State, Mayville, Valley City get $86.95 per credit hour and the JUCOS get $93.03.


There are way too many higher ed institutions in this state and there are too many mouths to feed.

They need to get rid of Mayville, Valley City, Dickinson for the 4 year schools and Williston, Bottineau and Lake Region for the 2 year schools.

I’m with ya on the 4 yr schools. That be a really silly idea to close the tech schools. Maybe Lake Region. Closing Williston in particular would be terrible for the state. The amount of tax revenue coming out of Williams County is huge and I believe now much higher than FM area, and that is supported by various trade careers.

[SDFS]

I’m curious as hell where that number is actually coming from cause that’s 2xs over any number I’ve ever seen associated with the SDSU football team. Hell, that would be 25% of the total athletic budget.....

I think I remember seeing a big jump when the stadium was built.

-

[Sycamore62]

This is becoming my favorite thread. F all you haters

[uni88]

Hence the Pioneer League. If you will not fund D1 athletics, drop to D2.

Basketball is a D1 sport. You might not agree with prioritizing basketball over football but that doesn't make it wrong.

[CappinHard]

If I was a Husker fan living in Sioux Falls I would probably be looking at finding some SDSU gear and heading to Brookings on weekends for games instead of to Lincoln. UNL is closer to Minnesota as a football program right now than they are to Ohio St.

You clearly don't know Husker fans very well then... they're one of, if not THE, most delusional fan base in the nation. They think they've got a shot at a natty every single year. Plus it doesn't matter if they're terrible, they live and die Husker football.

[FargoBison]

True....they've fired multiple coaches for only winning 9 games a season and look at them now.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I’m with ya on the 4 yr schools. That be a really silly idea to close the tech schools. Maybe Lake Region. Closing Williston in particular would be terrible for the state. The amount of tax revenue coming out of Williams County is huge and I believe now much higher than FM area, and that is supported by various trade careers.


Good point with Williston and I agree.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Well when the city buys your stadium for you the $5 mil tends to go further than the $6 mil does. So in actual budget for the team terms, yeah we’re behind a ways. It’s like living at mom and dads house in your late 30’s and not having to pay rent and asking why your friends can’t get as nice of stuff as you can or go to Vegas with you with the same sized paycheck xcoffeex


Out of the 100 million for the stadium and IPF, what % still needs to be paid for?

The FD is always in the black. Football is not the only thing happening there. Huge surplus being sat on right now. Too bad it wasn't built for the original capacity.

[Thumper 76]

Out of the 100 million for the stadium and IPF, what % still needs to be paid for?

The FD is always in the black. Football is not the only thing happening there. Huge surplus being sat on right now. Too bad it wasn't built for the original capacity.

That’s another advantage to being in a city the size of Fargo. Even if ndsu had to put the dome up on their own, there’s a population base to provide the demand for everything else that goes on there.

I have no clue how much is left to be paid on both of those buildings. I’m sure it’s a fair amount. We’ll need semi constant sell outs to get way ahead on paying it off I think. I’m torn on whether that’s an accurate look at a football teams budget to add those costs in though considering the large disparity from school to school and it gives a skewed view of how much money is actually going into the yearly budget for the team when compared to a team that has the bonus like ndsu does. But on the flip side, that IS money being spent on something the football team uses.

[TheKingpin28]

Well when the city buys your stadium for you the $5 mil tends to go further than the $6 mil does. So in actual budget for the team terms, yeah we’re behind a ways. It’s like living at mom and dads house in your late 30’s and not having to pay rent and asking why your friends can’t get as nice of stuff as you can or go to Vegas with you with the same sized paycheck xcoffeex

Why so serious?

[SDFS]

That’s another advantage to being in a city the size of Fargo. Even if ndsu had to put the dome up on their own, there’s a population base to provide the demand for everything else that goes on there.

I have no clue how much is left to be paid on both of those buildings. I’m sure it’s a fair amount. We’ll need semi constant sell outs to get way ahead on paying it off I think. I’m torn on whether that’s an accurate look at a football teams budget to add those costs in though considering the large disparity from school to school and it gives a skewed view of how much money is actually going into the yearly budget for the team when compared to a team that has the bonus like ndsu does. But on the flip side, that IS money being spent on something the football team uses.

It would be interesting to see if JMU's number spiked when they rebuilt their stadium.

[Thumper 76]

Why so serious?

I’m a very serious fellow

[Professor Chaos]

That’s another advantage to being in a city the size of Fargo. Even if ndsu had to put the dome up on their own, there’s a population base to provide the demand for everything else that goes on there.

I have no clue how much is left to be paid on both of those buildings. I’m sure it’s a fair amount. We’ll need semi constant sell outs to get way ahead on paying it off I think. I’m torn on whether that’s an accurate look at a football teams budget to add those costs in though considering the large disparity from school to school and it gives a skewed view of how much money is actually going into the yearly budget for the team when compared to a team that has the bonus like ndsu does. But on the flip side, that IS money being spent on something the football team uses.
Despite that NDSU is still spending more on "Facilities and Equipment" than SDSU spends. What's kind of eye opening to me is that NDSU spent $7.5M more than SDSU did on athletics in 2017 yet SDSU sponsors 5 more varsity sports and has nearly 100 more student athletes. I think there's where the AD strategy differ the most between two schools. NDSU prioritizes fully funding all sports they sponsor whereas SDSU prioritizes giving more students-athletes opportunities to compete at the D1 level. That extra 100 student athletes is probably another reason why following NDSU, USD, and UND by offering COA to all scholarship athletes in all sports isn't very easy for SDSU to do. Their 514 student-athletes outpaces UND (430), NDSU (419), and USD (382) by quite a bit.

[Thumper 76]

Despite that NDSU is still spending more on "Facilities and Equipment" than SDSU spends. What's kind of eye opening to me is that NDSU spent $7.5M more than SDSU did on athletics in 2017 yet SDSU sponsors 5 more varsity sports and has nearly 100 more student athletes. I think there's where the AD strategy differ the most between two schools. NDSU prioritizes fully funding all sports they sponsor whereas SDSU prioritizes giving more students-athletes opportunities to compete at the D1 level. That extra 100 student athletes is probably another reason why following NDSU by offering COA to all scholarship athletes in all sports isn't very easy for SDSU to do.

That is a huge thing, and I don’t know it’s necessarily what is best for SDSU or what the athletic department wants, but that’s how it was in DII and if they had dropped a bunch of sports when they made the jump it would have been a publicity nightmare, and if we were to drop the amount of sports we have now it would still be a real bad look. I think I looked it up a while back but SDSU sponsors more or at minimum as many sports as every Big XII school does. It’s insane but it’s pretty much the cards were dealt. It’s also something that’s never talked about when comparing the budgets for the two schools that really matters.

I really shocked by the spending by ndsu on facilities, was that maybe from the new softball fields and basketball arena? I know the city or minor league team helps with the baseball field or owns it entirely similar to the dome, that’s a hefty plus to have two facilities taken care of for you.

[Professor Chaos]

That is a huge thing, and I don’t know it’s necessarily what is best for SDSU or what the athletic department wants, but that’s how it was in DII and if they had dropped a bunch of sports when they made the jump it would have been a publicity nightmare, and if we were to drop the amount of sports we have now it would still be a real bad look. I think I looked it up a while back but SDSU sponsors more or at minimum as many sports as every Big XII school does. It’s insane but it’s pretty much the cards were dealt. It’s also something that’s never talked about when comparing the budgets for the two schools that really matters.

I really shocked by the spending by ndsu on facilities, was that maybe from the new softball fields and basketball arena? I know the city or minor league team helps with the baseball field or owns it entirely similar to the dome, that’s a hefty plus to have two facilities taken care of for you.
That's a good question. I'm nearly positive the state of ND gave the directive that funds for the basketball arena renovation and indoor track facility had to be 100% (or close to it) privately fundraised before construction could begin. But "Facilities and Equipment" took a similar jump for NDSU from 2016 to 2017 that they did for SDSU going from $2.78M in 2016 to $5.98M in 2017. 2016-17 was the first season of the new basketball arena so it would make sense if that's why.

[Hammersmith]

Any of these financial comparisons should really be broken out into three categories: Operations, Scholarships, and Facilities(or Capital Improvements). That's the only way to do a good apples to apples. I suspect one reason JMU's number is so large in comparison is because their non-resident tuition is so much higher than many of the other teams higher up on that list. And the way facility projects are handled from school to school(or state to state) can skew the numbers too greatly(like the discussion here shows). At the end of the day, it's the difference in the operations budget that is the important part when doing comparisons.

[Professor Chaos]

Any of these financial comparisons should really be broken out into three categories: Operations, Scholarships, and Facilities(or Capital Improvements). That's the only way to do a good apples to apples. I suspect one reason JMU's number is so large in comparison is because their non-resident tuition is so much higher than many of the other teams higher up on that list. And the way facility projects are handled from school to school(or state to state) can skew the numbers too greatly(like the discussion here shows). At the end of the day, it's the difference in the operations budget that is the important part when doing comparisons.
They do break out the overall department spending on things like student aid, game expenses & travel, coaches compensation along with facilities and equipment but the only thing the break out for football specific spending is coaches salaries.

If you're interested though here's the 2017 numbers across all those categories for the top 25 (public) FCS schools in terms of football spending:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49090316143_c9b8a1d6ba_o.jpg

Source: http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/reports/a023959d

[that guy]

looks like Delaware over paying coaching for their results

[TheKingpin28]

I’m a very serious fellowI just found it comical after the comments he made in comparison to how much more they spent.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Thumper 76]

I just found it comical after the comments he made in comparison to how much more they spent.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk
I get the ndsu dig on SDSU there for sure.
But he’s not wrong so......


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[Redbird 4th & short]

Well when the city buys your stadium for you the $5 mil tends to go further than the $6 mil does. So in actual budget for the team terms, yeah we’re behind a ways. It’s like living at mom and dads house in your late 30’s and not having to pay rent and asking why your friends can’t get as nice of stuff as you can or go to Vegas with you with the same sized paycheck xcoffeex
i typed "niceeee gif" and got this .. liked it better than niceeee

http://gifsb.in/yes/goddamn-right-breaking-ad.gif
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjJnoGau_flAhUOOq0KHRaeDwMQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgifsb.in%2Fyes%2F%3FC%3DN%3BO%3DD&psig=AOvVaw0pMBDJtumNSVlVeTcM_86p&ust=1574293670098340)

[TheKingpin28]

I get the ndsu dig on SDSU there for sure.
But he’s not wrong so......


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWith another million, you could buy some fans to fill the stadium more than 1x every 2 years. xlolx

In all seriousness, your stadium is fantastic and IIRC, I heard it was built so that if they ever covered it, they could.

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[cx500d]

With another million, you could buy some fans to fill the stadium more than 1x every 2 years. xlolx

In all seriousness, your stadium is fantastic and IIRC, I heard it was built so that if they ever covered it, they could.

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Well, covering it with manure from the stock barns is not what you are thinking but that is the reality

[Thumper 76]

With another million, you could buy some fans to fill the stadium more than 1x every 2 years. xlolx

In all seriousness, your stadium is fantastic and IIRC, I heard it was built so that if they ever covered it, they could.

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I haven’t heard that from anywhere before. It is built to be easily expanded though.

[HAL_9000]

Ok Clenz

UNI all time D-I record vs. UNI .333 I mean is that a joke? You beat the Bison in '8 '9 '10 and just once in your last 9 trys.

Western does not brag about our record at all Western is .200 vs. Bison in the D-I period.

Yeah. .333 is totally killing it.

Also to your point again about Western being a ****ing small non account piece of **** school.

Well in the '80s Illinois legislators illegally voted to borrow (steel) from the State pension fund. Took the money didn't replace it and the fund lost Billions in unrealized investment revenue. If that weren't bad enough the criminals that run the State already voted to stop funding the fund they already stole from. Criminal is an understatement. The only predictable result was in a decades time the States self inflicted damage would seize up funding to State Universities.

SIU used to be 25,000 they are 11,000 now. NIU has the lowest enrollment in 40 years. Eastern is struggling to get better but they are at about 7,500 students. WIU once proud and mighty in the '70s (much bigger than UNI with an enrollment of over 15,000) has been hit hard. Internal conflict. A president that should have and would have been ushered out the door earlier if not for "the race card being played".....inept board of trustees. State reneging on huge infrastructure projects when Govener Rauner, Wealthy, buys companies dismantles and destroys. Shut down improvements at Western.

Yeah it's bad at Western but your eternal Hard-on for a meh UNI school kinda struggling to survive that gets no respect in Iowa really makes be think you are trying to overcompensate for something.

Are you even capable of making a post that is not in some form or fashion deriding some institution or some other poster?

[JayJ79]

UNI all time D-I record vs. UNI .333

UNI beats themselves all the time. more often than every third game.

[uni88]

Ok Clenz

UNI all time D-I record vs. UNI .333 I mean is that a joke? You beat the Bison in '8 '9 '10 and just once in your last 9 trys.

Western does not brag about our record at all Western is .200 vs. Bison in the D-I period.

Yeah. .333 is totally killing it.

Also to your point again about Western being a ****ing small non account piece of **** school.

Well in the '80s Illinois legislators illegally voted to borrow (steel) from the State pension fund. Took the money didn't replace it and the fund lost Billions in unrealized investment revenue. If that weren't bad enough the criminals that run the State already voted to stop funding the fund they already stole from. Criminal is an understatement. The only predictable result was in a decades time the States self inflicted damage would seize up funding to State Universities.

SIU used to be 25,000 they are 11,000 now. NIU has the lowest enrollment in 40 years. Eastern is struggling to get better but they are at about 7,500 students. WIU once proud and mighty in the '70s (much bigger than UNI with an enrollment of over 15,000) has been hit hard. Internal conflict. A president that should have and would have been ushered out the door earlier if not for "the race card being played".....inept board of trustees. State reneging on huge infrastructure projects when Govener Rauner, Wealthy, buys companies dismantles and destroys. Shut down improvements at Western.

Yeah it's bad at Western but your eternal Hard-on for a meh UNI school kinda struggling to survive that gets no respect in Iowa really makes be think you are trying to overcompensate for something.

Are you even capable of making a post that is not in some form or fashion deriding some institution or some other poster?What the heck are you talking about? The majority of your post belongs on the poly board so I'm not going to respond to it here.

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[clenz]

Ok Clenz

UNI all time D-I record vs. UNI .333 I mean is that a joke? You beat the Bison in '8 '9 '10 and just once in your last 9 trys.

Western does not brag about our record at all Western is .200 vs. Bison in the D-I period.

Yeah. .333 is totally killing it.

Also to your point again about Western being a ****ing small non account piece of **** school.

Well in the '80s Illinois legislators illegally voted to borrow (steel) from the State pension fund. Took the money didn't replace it and the fund lost Billions in unrealized investment revenue. If that weren't bad enough the criminals that run the State already voted to stop funding the fund they already stole from. Criminal is an understatement. The only predictable result was in a decades time the States self inflicted damage would seize up funding to State Universities.

SIU used to be 25,000 they are 11,000 now. NIU has the lowest enrollment in 40 years. Eastern is struggling to get better but they are at about 7,500 students. WIU once proud and mighty in the '70s (much bigger than UNI with an enrollment of over 15,000) has been hit hard. Internal conflict. A president that should have and would have been ushered out the door earlier if not for "the race card being played".....inept board of trustees. State reneging on huge infrastructure projects when Govener Rauner, Wealthy, buys companies dismantles and destroys. Shut down improvements at Western.

Yeah it's bad at Western but your eternal Hard-on for a meh UNI school kinda struggling to survive that gets no respect in Iowa really makes be think you are trying to overcompensate for something.

Are you even capable of making a post that is not in some form or fashion deriding some institution or some other poster?
You need a therapist.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Wouldn't shock me if Youngstown beats Illinois State. Maybe Bo has a Herb Brooks speech ready to roll out before kickoff.

[ST_Lawson]

https://i.giphy.com/media/3ohs7KViF6rA4aan5u/giphy.gif

[nodak651]

NDSU and UND need to build a bullet train between Fargo and Grand Forks, combine the campuses, and join the big twleve. Football in Fargo, basketball can play at the Ralph. https://www.jamestownsun.com/news/1767398-fargo-man-pitches-merger-und-ndsu A lot of the fans already go to some of each others games - that is partly how NDSU can get 15k+ to Frisco and UND will have about 15k or more in Nashville next year for a non conf hockey game.

[POD Knows]

NDSU and UND need to build a bullet train between Fargo and Grand Forks, combine the campuses, and join the big twleve. Football in Fargo, basketball can play at the Ralph. https://www.jamestownsun.com/news/1767398-fargo-man-pitches-merger-und-ndsu A lot of the fans already go to some of each others games - that is partly how NDSU can get 15k+ to Frisco and UND will have about 15k or more in Nashville next year for a non conf hockey game.I am all for this, keep the Bison name and school colors and we should be good to go.

[Bisonator]

NDSU and UND need to build a bullet train between Fargo and Grand Forks, combine the campuses, and join the big twleve. Football in Fargo, basketball can play at the Ralph. https://www.jamestownsun.com/news/1767398-fargo-man-pitches-merger-und-ndsu A lot of the fans already go to some of each others games - that is partly how NDSU can get 15k+ to Frisco and UND will have about 15k or more in Nashville next year for a non conf hockey game.
Or we can just burn UND down. xcoffeex

[TheKingpin28]

Or we can just burn UND down. xcoffeexWouldn't it still the look same?

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[IBleedYellow]

Or we can just burn UND down. xcoffeex

Nuke it to the ground, salt the earth and damn the river to create another man made lake right there since water is a really good shield against radioactivity.

[clenz]

And Hal thinks I'm the one with an irrational hatred of a school.....

State a school has lost 40% of their enrollment in a decade and cut a ton of staff and has literally had to not pay their employees for a significant amount of time

then wonder how they will remain D1 and state you don't see how it happens


"**** YOU! YOU SUCK! ****ING DOUCHE!"

Want to actively nuke a school, salt the ground, and flood it? Not my school, DGAF.


xcoffeex

[Bisonator]

And Hal things I'm the one with an irrational hatred of a school.....


xcoffeex
There's nothing irrational about it. :D

[neverobeyed]

St Thomas was a founding member of the old North Central Conference that included the Dakota's.

Grew up watching the Dakotas coming into Cedar Falls to play UNI at OR Latham in the '70s.

Also included Morningside and Augustana at that time (of which I have no memory). But certainly remember UNI playing NDSU, UND, SDSU and USD in the old NCC.

[Bisonoline]

Grew up watching the Dakotas coming into Cedar Falls to play UNI at OR Latham in the '70s.

Also included Morningside and Augustana at that time (of which I have no memory). But certainly remember UNI playing NDSU, UND, SDSU and USD in the old NCC.

Been there.

[neverobeyed]

Ok Clenz

UNI all time D-I record vs. UNI .333


UNI beats themselves all the time. more often than every third game.

Son, that's called "FarleyBall!"

And *I* think when UNI beats themselves, it should go into the win column. New math.

[neverobeyed]

Or we can just burn UND down. xcoffeex

"Howdy, folks, I'm Steve, your adjuster with All State. Shame what happened to your campus. If you'll just sign these forms, I can get that check issued yesterday and be out of your way. Okay dokey?"

[JayJ79]

"Howdy, folks, I'm Steve, your adjuster with All State. Shame what happened to your campus. If you'll just sign these forms, I can get that check issued yesterday and be out of your way. Okay dokey?"

Jake from State Farm is cooler than Steve.

[Derby City Duke]

Jake from State Farm is cooler than Steve.

Considering Jake has been dead for a couple years, he’s stone cold!

[JayJ79]

Considering Jake has been dead for a couple years, he’s stone cold!
I believe that was just an urban legend.
Or I should say that an urban legend had been circulated that the actor who played "Jake from State Farm" had been murdered by his wife for cheating.
But in fact, the actor (who is actually named Jake, and did work at State Farm for a time, and is a graduate of Illinois State, and also worked as a bartender at a pub near the ISU campus) is still alive and well.

Of course, the article where I read that could also be a complete fabrication. who knows.

[neverobeyed]

Considering Jake has been dead for a couple years, he’s stone cold!


I believe that was just an urban legend.
Or I should say that an urban legend had been circulated that the actor who played "Jake from State Farm" had been murdered by his wife for cheating.
But in fact, the actor (who is actually named Jake, and did work at State Farm for a time, and is a graduate of Illinois State, and also worked as a bartender at a pub near the ISU campus) is still alive and well.

Of course, the article where I read that could also be a complete fabrication. who knows.

Well, this thread took a dark turn.

Can we just get back to burning a university campus to the ground?

[clenz]

Well, this thread took a dark turn.

Can we just get back to burning a university campus to the ground?
As long as it isn't the THRIVING, world renowned, institute that is single handed causing the sprawling metropolis that is Macomb, IL to double in size every 5th year.

[Sycamore62]

no you are

[mvfcfan]

I see NDSU and UNI fans are having a competition to see who can trash other conference teams the worst.

I'm sticking up for WIU. They have some issues because of their state government. Even with those issues they still usually field a very competitive team. Would still rather have them in the MVC than some of the private schools that are in it. All of the state schools in Illinois have struggled somewhat except for U of I and UIC.

[clenz]

I see NDSU and UNI fans are having a competition to see who can trash other conference teams the worst.

I'm sticking up for WIU. They have some issues because of their state government. Even with those issues they still usually field a very competitive team. Would still rather have them in the MVC than some of the private schools that are in it. All of the state schools in Illinois have struggled somewhat except for U of I and UIC.
It's almost like you didn't actually read my initial post at all.

Also, WIU in the MVC is a gigantic **** no...and it has nothing to do with funding issues (even though they can't be separated)

They have no fan base and bring nothing to Arch Madness. You think Loyola or Valpo have small fan bases? Cut their base by 80% and you have WIU

Seriously, their "scholarship club" set their second highest donor level ever in 2017 at 360,000

Their mens basketball program is just god awful

That's what the MVC cares about and needs to focus on moving forward. Growing basketball, basketball bases, and donors.

The fact I'm actually defending the private schools in the MVC is actually pretty damn telling.

[uni88]

I see NDSU and UNI fans are having a competition to see who can trash other conference teams the worst.

I'm sticking up for WIU. They have some issues because of their state government. Even with those issues they still usually field a very competitive team. Would still rather have them in the MVC than some of the private schools that are in it. All of the state schools in Illinois have struggled somewhat except for U of I and UIC.

I like WIU and hope they recover from this but I don't think they belong in the MVC. They're a better fit for the OVC then the MVC or MVFC/Summitt - they'd be more competitive and I would think travel would be better.

Illinois schools' problems aren't just about funding. They have too many cookie cutter schools offering the same things without enough differentiation. There aren't enough people in or near Forgottonia and not enough people from Chicago or St. Louis want to go to WIU when there are similar schools closer. Illinois needs to take a hard, strategic look at all of its institutions of higher education.

[F'N Hawks]

It's almost like you didn't actually read my initial post at all.

Also, WIU in the MVC is a gigantic **** no...and it has nothing to do with funding issues (even though they can't be separated)

They have no fan base and bring nothing to Arch Madness. You think Loyola or Valpo have small fan bases? Cut their base by 80% and you have WIU

Seriously, their "scholarship club" set their second highest donor level ever in 2017 at 360,000

Their mens basketball program is just god awful

That's what the MVC cares about and needs to focus on moving forward. Growing basketball, basketball bases, and donors.

The fact I'm actually defending the private schools in the MVC is actually pretty damn telling.

So you're saying UND has a chance to get into the MVC.....wait, was it bad sign that our head coach left to be an assistant Illinois State?

[clenz]

So you're saying UND has a chance to get into the MVC.....wait, was it bad sign that our head coach left to be an assistant Illinois State?
I mean...


It's a sign, certainly. xlolx

[Sycamore62]

So you're saying UND has a chance to get into the MVC.....wait, was it bad sign that our head coach left to be an assistant Illinois State?

did his wife get a upper level executive job at State Farm?

[Derby City Duke]

I believe that was just an urban legend.
Or I should say that an urban legend had been circulated that the actor who played "Jake from State Farm" had been murdered by his wife for cheating.
But in fact, the actor (who is actually named Jake, and did work at State Farm for a time, and is a graduate of Illinois State, and also worked as a bartender at a pub near the ISU campus) is still alive and well.

Of course, the article where I read that could also be a complete fabrication. who knows.

What? You're saying everything I read on the interwebs isn't true? I'm so disillusioned now...xembarrassedx

[ST_Lawson]

I mean...


It's a sign, certainly. xlolx

It is a sign...I think it's this one

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LRDPK73-LIo/hqdefault.jpg

[BisonFan02]

So you're saying UND has a chance to get into the MVC.....wait, was it bad sign that our head coach left to be an assistant Illinois State?

It's probably more of a sign that the MVC schools of the MVFC are only borderline relevant in football going forward. :D

[mvfcfan]

MVC publics need to focus on football. Basketball is a one bid league that comes down to 3 games in St Louis. At least in football we are actually allowed to compete. St Louis attendance was bad last year, real bad. I have never seen it that bad before. I bought a ticket off a scalper for $20 and sat in the 5th row on Sunday and made it on CBS.

[Hammerhead]

There's always the CFL
Those big end zones won’t fit in the Fargodome.

[Laker]

Those big end zones won’t fit in the Fargodome.

I guess that the Blue Bombers won't be having any exhibition games there then.

That Packers-Raiders game in Winnipeg this summer was one huge cluster.

[Houndawg]

Oh geography smack how original. xlolx

Jokes on you though because we would already be in Fargo, it's you that would have to go back to Carbondale. That's if you ever made it this far which is highly unlikely. :D

:D