Congrats David Stern....

[AppGuy04]

for giving game 5 to the Spurs. xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx

[Ivytalk]

Suns fans everywhere agree with you. If there is a game 7, Stern won't show up.

[AppGuy04]

Say what you will, suspending 2 players shortened their bench tremendously, and thats what cost them this game, they ran out of gas

[Gil Dobie]

Say what you will, suspending 2 players shortened their bench tremendously, and thats what cost them this game, they ran out of gas

It's a lot better to have 2 players out for 1 game, than to lose your #1 draft pick for 5 years like the Timberwolves. Stern punished the fans more than the owner in this case. Glen Taylor is a Billionaire, and doesn't make any money on the Wolves anyway. Just add the Suns David Stern Fan Club to the Timberwolves branch of the David Stern Fan Club. xsmhx

[GannonFan]

Don't leave the bench. xthumbsupx

[813Jag]

I don't know why people are surprised about David Stern. His M.O. has never been about being fair. First he markets the NBA to a younger crowd hoping to draw the so called "Hip Hop" demographic, then he institutes a dress code. He did the same thing with the high schoolers entering the draft. What makes the Suns so special? xconfusedx

[NDSUFREAK]

They slowed in the 4th. Kurt played 16 more mins than he usually does. Barbosa had to start. They put PAT BURKE in in the 1st quarter.

[AppGuy04]

They slowed in the 4th. Kurt played 16 more mins than he usually does. Barbosa had to start. They put PAT BURKE in in the 1st quarter.

exactly, they were handicapped by David Stern

[GannonFan]

Don't leave the bench. xthumbsupx

[AppGuy04]

Don't leave the bench. xthumbsupx

we got it

[GannonFan]

we got it

What's this, like the 4th thread on how Stern and the NBA are manipulating the series to win it for the Spurs? You may get it, but I'm not sure others are. And note, I have zero rooting interest whatsoever in this series, I could care less who wins. But I know the NBA's been pretty clear on this rule (and they've made similar, no exception rules in the past) - don't leave the bench. That's it. xthumbsupx

[Cleets]

What is this game of which you speak... N..B.....A.? I know not of this sport..


(I have not watched an NBA game since I can't even remember.. 1992 maybe..?)

A) The officiating is embarrassing
B) The sportsmanship is appalling
c) The traveling (who dribbles anymore..?)
D) The Europeans beat the NBA's ass every year

And that's from when I used to watch... I hear it's only worse today xlolx

-

[813Jag]

What is this game of which you speak... N..B.....A.? I know not of this sport..


(I have not watched an NBA game since I can't even remember.. 1992 maybe..?)

A) The officiating is embarrassing
B) The sportsmanship is appalling
c) The traveling (who dribbles anymore..?)
D) The Europeans beat the NBA's ass every year

And that's from when I used to watch... I hear it's only worse today xlolx

-
That wasn't the NBA in 1992. xnonox In the early to mid 90's International basketball wasn't close to NBA ball. Look at the '92 Olympics. That's a good representation of basketball now.

[NE MT GRIZZ]

Don't leave the bench. xthumbsupx

The NFL lets more things happen on the field during the playoffs, the NBA needs to adapt that policy.

[YoUDeeMan]

The NFL lets more things happen on the field during the playoffs, the NBA needs to adapt that policy.

Maybe or maybe not. But the future rules are irrelevent.

The rules at this point in time are very clear.

It is Stoud and Diaw who are to blame.....NOT Stern. If the Suns lose the series, those two will have to look at themselves and realize that their behavior, and the suspension that resulted, was their responsibility and their's alone.

Of course, in today's world of no personal accountability, the fans will blame anyone else but one of their own. xrolleyesx

[AppGuy04]

My guess is, Amare will come out with a vengeance tomorrow night

[Mountaineer]

It's an elimination game, he should be doing that anyway. :p :D

[I Bleed Purple]

I'm hoping the series goes to seven and there are two bench clearing brawls, leaving the winning team with max 7 players for every WCF game. http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

[NDSUFREAK]

I'm hoping the series goes to seven and there are two bench clearing brawls, leaving the winning team with max 7 players for every WCF game. http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

PHX knows how to play with 7 players since the practically did that during the entire playoffs last year!

[I Bleed Purple]

PHX knows how to play with 7 players since the practically did that during the entire playoffs last year!
How'd they do in the playoffs last year?

[PantherRob82]

Stupid NBA ruining the series. The seriously need to make some changes to that rule.

[I Bleed Purple]

Stupid NBA ruining the series. The seriously need to make some changes to that rule.

Stupid NBA players ruining the series. They seriously need to make some changes to that rule so that all players can come onto the court to protect their teammates. That'll keep fighting from happening.

[AZGrizFan]

What's this, like the 4th thread on how Stern and the NBA are manipulating the series to win it for the Spurs? You may get it, but I'm not sure others are. And note, I have zero rooting interest whatsoever in this series, I could care less who wins. But I know the NBA's been pretty clear on this rule (and they've made similar, no exception rules in the past) - don't leave the bench. That's it. xthumbsupx

While it may seem crystal clear to you GF, there is a TON of room for interpretation and Stern would have been well within his rights to do absolutely NOTHING to Amare or Diaw. From the definition of "altercation" to the definition of "leaving the bench", there's a TON of gray area here. There was really not much difference between the Horry/Bell altercation than there was with the "altercation" in the second quarter in which Duncan left the bench.

And I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone is suggesting that the NBA is manipulating the series to win it for the Spurs. That may just be the ultimate outcome. In reality I, as a Suns fan, have less of an issue with him suspending Amare and Diaw than I do with them (the refs) letting Bowen, Duncan, and Horry get away with muggings up and down the court all series long with a relative slap on the wrist (or nothing at all). Because, in reality, it's THAT mentality that ultimately led to the Horry/Nash incident to begin with. IF they'd cracked down on that BS early in the series, most Suns fans firmly believe it would have never come to what happened at the end of game 4.

All that being said, San Antonio looks like Mary Poppins compared to the Golden State Warriors. Those guys were absolute thugs. Thank God they're gone!

[NDSUFREAK]

While it may seem crystal clear to you GF, there is a TON of room for interpretation and Stern would have been well within his rights to do absolutely NOTHING to Amare or Diaw. From the definition of "altercation" to the definition of "leaving the bench", there's a TON of gray area here. There was really not much difference between the Horry/Bell altercation than there was with the "altercation" in the second quarter in which Duncan left the bench.

And I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone is suggesting that the NBA is manipulating the series to win it for the Spurs. That may just be the ultimate outcome. In reality I, as a Suns fan, have less of an issue with him suspending Amare and Diaw than I do with them (the refs) letting Bowen, Duncan, and Horry get away with muggings up and down the court all series long with a relative slap on the wrist (or nothing at all). Because, in reality, it's THAT mentality that ultimately led to the Horry/Nash incident to begin with. IF they'd cracked down on that BS early in the series, most Suns fans firmly believe it would have never come to what happened at the end of game 4.

All that being said, San Antonio looks like Mary Poppins compared to the Golden State Warriors. Those guys were absolute thugs. Thank God they're gone!

Glad you can join the SUNS gang on the "other sports" board, AZ! xthumbsupx

[CopperCat]

I listened to sportscasters talk about this for over four hours yesterday on the radio. Repetitive arguments turned into Stern getting pissed at Dan Patrick, and he made himself look stupid on radio. The respect factor for Stern has certainly gone down b/c of this.

Basically what happened was Stern let SA be the aggressor in the series, and when an "altercation" finally happened he awarded the aggressor, which is flat out wrong. Steve Nash has been getting knocked around like a punching bag, and not much has been done about it (even now). I don't agree with what Stern did. He took the easy way out. Crappy leadership in the form of David Stern will and already has taken a toll.xnonono2x

David Stern = boneheadxmadx

[NDSUFREAK]

Stern being the commish wont last very much longer IMHO. His rep has gone down in the past years with the dress code, suspensions etc...

[813Jag]

David Stern is not going anywhere. If he can survive the Detriot/Indiana brawl or the backlash from the Las Vegas all star weekend, he can survive this. This is nothing for him.

[OhioHen]

for giving game 5 to the Spurs. xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx

Don't bash the rules enforcer --blame the rules breakers. xrulesx

They KNOW that if they leave the bench during an altercation, they'll be suspended. xnonox

They STILL left the bench. xnonox xoopsx

They (and the fans ) WHINE about the rule being enforced. xbawlingx

[OhioHen]

The NFL lets more things happen on the field during the playoffs, the NBA needs to adapt that policy.

No, the NFL needs to enforce its rules the same way in the playoffs that it does during the regular season. A rule is a rule xrulesx and shouldn't change based on "the importance of the game." xnonox

[GannonFan]

While it may seem crystal clear to you GF, there is a TON of room for interpretation and Stern would have been well within his rights to do absolutely NOTHING to Amare or Diaw. From the definition of "altercation" to the definition of "leaving the bench", there's a TON of gray area here. There was really not much difference between the Horry/Bell altercation than there was with the "altercation" in the second quarter in which Duncan left the bench.

And I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone is suggesting that the NBA is manipulating the series to win it for the Spurs. That may just be the ultimate outcome. In reality I, as a Suns fan, have less of an issue with him suspending Amare and Diaw than I do with them (the refs) letting Bowen, Duncan, and Horry get away with muggings up and down the court all series long with a relative slap on the wrist (or nothing at all). Because, in reality, it's THAT mentality that ultimately led to the Horry/Nash incident to begin with. IF they'd cracked down on that BS early in the series, most Suns fans firmly believe it would have never come to what happened at the end of game 4.

All that being said, San Antonio looks like Mary Poppins compared to the Golden State Warriors. Those guys were absolute thugs. Thank God they're gone!

But they haven't been gray on this rule, they've been pretty consistent - leave the bench, get suspended. Hey, I'm not arguing that the Spurs haven't been rough, they have been, but that happens - basketball is still a contact sport. And the fouls are getting called. I think the Suns have played up this "the Spurs are dirty" thing so much that I think they themselves are getting distracted by it. It's almost like they are just looking for the next hard foul - they've actually let the Spurs get in their heads and now they cry about every foul like their getting shanked right out there on the court. I don't think the Spurs are being any rougher than you see out of Detroit, Miami, and a bunch of teams - and as you say Golden State. The Suns are doing themselves a disservice by, pretty much from the opening tipoff of the series, bemoaing the fact that San Antonio is physical. Basketball is physical, basketball is a contact sport - just play the game and let the officials and your coach worry about the other stuff. Having Nash and Stoudamire lead the vocal brigade is not helpful for the Suns.

[Longhorn]

But they haven't been gray on this rule, they've been pretty consistent - leave the bench, get suspended. Hey, I'm not arguing that the Spurs haven't been rough, they have been, but that happens - basketball is still a contact sport. And the fouls are getting called. I think the Suns have played up this "the Spurs are dirty" thing so much that I think they themselves are getting distracted by it. It's almost like they are just looking for the next hard foul - they've actually let the Spurs get in their heads and now they cry about every foul like their getting shanked right out there on the court. I don't think the Spurs are being any rougher than you see out of Detroit, Miami, and a bunch of teams - and as you say Golden State. The Suns are doing themselves a disservice by, pretty much from the opening tipoff of the series, bemoaing the fact that San Antonio is physical. Basketball is physical, basketball is a contact sport - just play the game and let the officials and your coach worry about the other stuff. Having Nash and Stoudamire lead the vocal brigade is not helpful for the Suns.

Amen. Well said Gannonfan.

Should be a great game tonight. Nash and company's backs are to the wall so they'll come out fired up. If Amare can keep his head and emotions in check he could be the difference maker, however, he's shown an immaturity that has limited his effectiveness. On the other hand, the Spurs sure don't want to go back to the Suns' place for a game 7 where the odds would have to favor the Suns.

I expect the refs will call things tight tonight. Whichever team adapts first or best will have the edge. Given the fact the Spurs are in the Suns heads, I see a tightly called game working to the Spurs' benefit. Spurs have been there/done that, having dealt with championship playoff pressure before and won repeatedly...Nash and company have yet to show they can rise to the occassion. Maybe they will tonight, but I doubt it. When his career is over, Nash may well join the likes of Karl Malone as one of the finest NBA players ever who never won a championship....I'm not saying that will happen, nor wishing that will happen....just pointing out that Nash, as good as he is, can't seem to get his teams over the hump. And isn't that what an MVP is all about? xeyebrowx

For tonight, as has been the pattern, the Spurs must hold up under an early rush by the Suns at the beginning of the game. On the flip side, after the Spurs take control, the Suns must keep it close through 3 and into the 4th, and then try and finish with a flurry as in game 4.

Odds favor the Spurs winning tonight, and if they do, it should be a cakewalk thereafter past the Jazz and on into the finals (thanks be to the Warriors). If I had to guess right now, it looks like a S.A.-Detroit matchup in the finals...probably not what the TV guys want.

[813Jag]

But they haven't been gray on this rule, they've been pretty consistent - leave the bench, get suspended. Hey, I'm not arguing that the Spurs haven't been rough, they have been, but that happens - basketball is still a contact sport. And the fouls are getting called. I think the Suns have played up this "the Spurs are dirty" thing so much that I think they themselves are getting distracted by it. It's almost like they are just looking for the next hard foul - they've actually let the Spurs get in their heads and now they cry about every foul like their getting shanked right out there on the court. I don't think the Spurs are being any rougher than you see out of Detroit, Miami, and a bunch of teams - and as you say Golden State. The Suns are doing themselves a disservice by, pretty much from the opening tipoff of the series, bemoaing the fact that San Antonio is physical. Basketball is physical, basketball is a contact sport - just play the game and let the officials and your coach worry about the other stuff. Having Nash and Stoudamire lead the vocal brigade is not helpful for the Suns.
Agreed! xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

If I had to guess right now, it looks like a S.A.-Detroit matchup in the finals...probably not what the TV guys want.

Actually, a San Antonio/Detriot Final would be a pretty decent final - I could see that series going the distance as well which could make up for the fact that TV-wise it isn't the best matchup in the world. Certainly would be a competitive series.

[813Jag]

Actually, a San Antonio/Detriot Final would be a pretty decent final - I could see that series going the distance as well which could make up for the fact that TV-wise it isn't the best matchup in the world. Certainly would be a competitive series.
It would be good if you like defense and solid offense. If you want high flying then you'd be disappointed.

[GannonFan]

It would be good if you like defense and solid offense. If you want high flying then you'd be disappointed.

Good basketball can be played in many ways. xthumbsupx

[AZGrizFan]

But they haven't been gray on this rule, they've been pretty consistent - leave the bench, get suspended. Hey, I'm not arguing that the Spurs haven't been rough, they have been, but that happens - basketball is still a contact sport. And the fouls are getting called. I think the Suns have played up this "the Spurs are dirty" thing so much that I think they themselves are getting distracted by it. It's almost like they are just looking for the next hard foul - they've actually let the Spurs get in their heads and now they cry about every foul like their getting shanked right out there on the court. I don't think the Spurs are being any rougher than you see out of Detroit, Miami, and a bunch of teams - and as you say Golden State. The Suns are doing themselves a disservice by, pretty much from the opening tipoff of the series, bemoaing the fact that San Antonio is physical. Basketball is physical, basketball is a contact sport - just play the game and let the officials and your coach worry about the other stuff. Having Nash and Stoudamire lead the vocal brigade is not helpful for the Suns.

Apparently the Suns learned that from the masters. And Duncan LEFT THE BENCH. There IS gray area, both in the definition of an "altercation" and definition of "leaving the bench".

If the Refs called every foul, Duncan and Bowen would foul out in the first quarter. And, there's a BIG difference between being physical and being dirty. The Spurts, in my opinion, have crossed that line. They used to be my second favorite team. Not any more.

Finally, I think the BIGGEST disservice to the Suns gameplan is the extended length of time between playoff games. One of the biggest advantages the Suns have is their ability to run their opponents into submission. Think about it: The Spur win game 1, after having 4-5 days of rest. Suns blow them out in game 2---with only one day of rest. Spurs win game 3 after having 4 days rest, then run out of gas in game 4 and Suns win on Spurs court---after only 1 day of rest. And, had the Suns been playing at full strength, they'd have run the Spurs out of the Gym Wednesday on one day's rest as well. So, my prediction is this: Suns win tonight (on one days rest, with a VERY rested Amare and Diaw), and then win the series on Sunday in Phoenix----on ONE DAYS REST. Spurs are old, tired, and have to resort to cheap shots and dirty tactics to even stay close. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[GannonFan]

Apparently the Suns learned that from the masters. And Duncan LEFT THE BENCH. There IS gray area, both in the definition of an "altercation" and definition of "leaving the bench".

If the Refs called every foul, Duncan and Bowen would foul out in the first quarter. And, there's a BIG difference between being physical and being dirty. The Spurts, in my opinion, have crossed that line. They used to be my second favorite team. Not any more.

Finally, I think the BIGGEST disservice to the Suns gameplan is the extended length of time between playoff games. One of the biggest advantages the Suns have is their ability to run their opponents into submission. Think about it: The Spur win game 1, after having 4-5 days of rest. Suns blow them out in game 2---with only one day of rest. Spurs win game 3 after having 4 days rest, then run out of gas in game 4 and Suns win on Spurs court---after only 1 day of rest. And, had the Suns been playing at full strength, they'd have run the Spurs out of the Gym Wednesday on one day's rest as well. So, my prediction is this: Suns win tonight (on one days rest, with a VERY rested Amare and Diaw), and then win the series on Sunday in Phoenix----on ONE DAYS REST. Spurs are old, tired, and have to resort to cheap shots and dirty tactics to even stay close. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx


So now the proof about the NBA fixing this series in favor of the Spurs is the schedule for the games???? Come on, have you watched the NBA before - the NBA always stretches out this round in terms of when to play the games - nothing new here, just the NBA trying to maximize its TV time and trying to lengthen the playoffs. To think that the NBA came up with this plan, which again, they've done for years, all in an amazing prescient attempt to thwart a team years in the future like the Suns of today is just prima facie silly. xlolx

I actually like the Suns (although I don't really care all that deeply) but they have to focus on playing basketball and forget the hard fouls and what they're going to complain about in the post-game conference, or this will be their last post-game conference of the year. Gee, if they're complaining now just wait until they play the Pistons in the Finals!!!xlolx xlolx

[Longhorn]

Spurs are old, tired, and have to resort to cheap shots and dirty tactics to even stay close. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

Well, I'm all for old and tired guys beating the young pups. xlolx

But seriously, while you're entitled to your opinion, Duncan is at the apex of his career, not over the hill. Not yet anyway. And while Bowen, Horry and Finley have seen better days, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker are young and can run with anyone. In fact, those two are just as fast, if not faster, than anyone the Suns can put on the court (hence the desperation head butt-reach in foul Nash inflicted on Parker as he started to drive past Nash in game one, and the poke-in-the-eye near tragedy bestowed on Ginobili's vision as Manu drove past flat-footed and slower Suns players).

The Suns play a fast paced game that's fun to watch. Unfortunately, this series has exposed the not so well-kept secret that the Suns have only one speed, and find it difficult to adapt to a more physical game. The Spurs on the other hand, can play an uptempo game if need be, but can also adapt and play at any other pace or style necessary to win...which is why (in part) they're the better "team".

I agree with you Gannonfan that a S.A.-Detroit matchup will make for an interesting series, and probably a 7 game series at that. I'm just guessing that the TV guys would have preferred to have had a big market like LA in the finals...or lacking that, a young superstar like Lebron James playing.

[dbackjon]

Well, I'm all for old and tired guys beating the young pups. xlolx

But seriously, while you're entitled to your opinion, Duncan is at the apex of his career, not over the hill. Not yet anyway. And while Bowen, Horry and Finley have seen better days, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker are young and can run with anyone. In fact, those two are just as fast, if not faster, than anyone the Suns can put on the court (hence the desperation head butt-reach in foul Nash inflicted on Parker as he started to drive past Nash in game one, and the poke-in-the-eye near tragedy bestowed on Ginobili's vision as Manu drove past flat-footed and slower Suns players).

The Suns play a fast paced game that's fun to watch. Unfortunately, this series has exposed the not so well-kept secret that the Suns have only one speed, and find it difficult to adapt to a more physical game. The Spurs on the other hand, can play an uptempo game if need be, but can also adapt and play at any other pace or style necessary to win...which is why (in part) they're the better "team".

I agree with you Gannonfan that a S.A.-Detroit matchup will make for an interesting series, and probably a 7 game series at that. I'm just guessing that the TV guys would have preferred to have had a big market like LA in the finals...or lacking that, a young superstar like Lebron James playing.

If the refs would call Duncan for his many fouls, and properly ejected Bowen for his DIRTY play, the series would be over by now, with the Suns either sweeping, or winning in 5. San Antonio is the dirtiest team in the NBA right now, and a disgrace to the League. There will be rule changes in the off-season. Everyone outside of Texas is horrified by what is going on, and the Suns have become America's team.

Bowen will not be on the all-defensive team next year - he has been exposed nationally for the cheap shot artist he is, and that his "D" stands for dirty, not defensive.

[GannonFan]

If the refs would call Duncan for his many fouls, and properly ejected Bowen for his DIRTY play, the series would be over by now, with the Suns either sweeping, or winning in 5. San Antonio is the dirtiest team in the NBA right now, and a disgrace to the League. There will be rule changes in the off-season. Everyone outside of Texas is horrified by what is going on, and the Suns have become America's team.

Bowen will not be on the all-defensive team next year - he has been exposed nationally for the cheap shot artist he is, and that his "D" stands for dirty, not defensive.

Rest assured, I'm not from Texas and there's no real outrage up here in the Northeast (Philly, NYC, etc), let alone people being horrified. Sure, people question the absolutism of the "don't leave the bench ever" rule but that's about it. Everyone agrees that the Spurs play physical, but very few are saying that they are as dirty as you Suns fans are making them out to be. The complaint against Duncan is the same complaint you always hear about a dominant bigman - Shaq, Akeem, Ewing, Jabbar, Russell, Wilt, etc - everyone (well, their opponents) always claim they get away with murder. In reality, they probably get beat up more than anyone else on the floor.

I'm curious, besides the leaving the bench rule, what rule changes do you think are actually going to happen???

[gmoney55]

I have to agree with GannonFan. A lot of people even seem to be shifting to the Spurs with all of the whining the Suns are doing all series. Bowen didn't need to be exposed as a dirty player, we've seen that for years.

[AZGrizFan]

So now the proof about the NBA fixing this series in favor of the Spurs is the schedule for the games???? Come on, have you watched the NBA before - the NBA always stretches out this round in terms of when to play the games - nothing new here, just the NBA trying to maximize its TV time and trying to lengthen the playoffs. To think that the NBA came up with this plan, which again, they've done for years, all in an amazing prescient attempt to thwart a team years in the future like the Suns of today is just prima facie silly. xlolx

I actually like the Suns (although I don't really care all that deeply) but they have to focus on playing basketball and forget the hard fouls and what they're going to complain about in the post-game conference, or this will be their last post-game conference of the year. Gee, if they're complaining now just wait until they play the Pistons in the Finals!!!xlolx xlolx

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!! I never said ANYTHING about a conspiracy! Don't go puttin' words in my mouth. I just said the schedule of games is a disservice to the Suns' biggest advantage....and that is the ability to run teams into the ground. I realize that it's been around for years, but I think THAT, more than anything else, is a big factor in why the Suns' "style" of baskeball doesn't work so well (at least historically) in the playoffs. That's all, nothing more, nothing less...

Easy there, big fella.... xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

[AZGrizFan]

I have to agree with GannonFan. A lot of people even seem to be shifting to the Spurs with all of the whining the Suns are doing all series. Bowen didn't need to be exposed as a dirty player, we've seen that for years.

So, apparently it's OK to whine to the refs about every single foul called on your team, but not voice your displeasure in the media? xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[GannonFan]

So, apparently it's OK to whine to the refs about every single foul called on your team, but not voice your displeasure in the media? xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Come on, this is basketball, guys whine during the game all the time. Nothing new there, the Spurs are hardly in a class by themselves on that one. But calling specific players and the other team dirty is taking it a little far. You don't see that done very often at all.

[AZGrizFan]

Well, I'm all for old and tired guys beating the young pups. xlolx

But seriously, while you're entitled to your opinion, Duncan is at the apex of his career, not over the hill. Not yet anyway. And while Bowen, Horry and Finley have seen better days, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker are young and can run with anyone. In fact, those two are just as fast, if not faster, than anyone the Suns can put on the court (hence the desperation head butt-reach in foul Nash inflicted on Parker as he started to drive past Nash in game one, and the poke-in-the-eye near tragedy bestowed on Ginobili's vision as Manu drove past flat-footed and slower Suns players).

The Suns play a fast paced game that's fun to watch. Unfortunately, this series has exposed the not so well-kept secret that the Suns have only one speed, and find it difficult to adapt to a more physical game. The Spurs on the other hand, can play an uptempo game if need be, but can also adapt and play at any other pace or style necessary to win...which is why (in part) they're the better "team".


Everyone knows Nash can't play defense. So to see Parker drive by him is no big surprise. And the war in Iraq is a tragedy. A poke in the eye is not---and doesn't hurt nearly as bad as a knee to the balls. Trust me, I've had both. xnodx xnodx xnodx

And your "analysis" of the series to date is funny. If Nash isn't hurt in game one, the Suns very likely win that game, and if they're playing at full strength in game 5 they win that game too. Not to shabby for a team that finds "it difficult to adapt to a more physical game". Dbackjon is right---this series should be over. And I'll stand by my prediction that the Suns win tonight and Sunday---and will have the last laugh. xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[AZGrizFan]

Come on, this is basketball, guys whine during the game all the time. Nothing new there, the Spurs are hardly in a class by themselves on that one. But calling specific players and the other team dirty is taking it a little far. You don't see that done very often at all.

The Spurs have taken that to a new level...and sometimes the truth hurts. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[GannonFan]

The Spurs have taken that to a new level...and sometimes the truth hurts. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

It doesn't hurt me at all - I have no rooting interest in this series whatsoever. But if you really think the Spurs have taken whining to an all new level then I have to question how long you've watched basketball - the Pistons of the late 80's (Laimbeer, Rodman, Isiah) whined non-stop - heck, Laimbeer even made the cover of SI just for whining. The Knicks of the Riley-era were notorious for cheap shots and trash talking. Heck, MJ may be the best player of all time but he lobbied for calls as soon as he stepped on the court - it's what happens in basketball.

[dbackjon]

Rest assured, I'm not from Texas and there's no real outrage up here in the Northeast (Philly, NYC, etc), let alone people being horrified. Sure, people question the absolutism of the "don't leave the bench ever" rule but that's about it. Everyone agrees that the Spurs play physical, but very few are saying that they are as dirty as you Suns fans are making them out to be. The complaint against Duncan is the same complaint you always hear about a dominant bigman - Shaq, Akeem, Ewing, Jabbar, Russell, Wilt, etc - everyone (well, their opponents) always claim they get away with murder. In reality, they probably get beat up more than anyone else on the floor.

I'm curious, besides the leaving the bench rule, what rule changes do you think are actually going to happen???


More emphasis on calling dirty play fouls flagrant fouls, for one.

I have read many columns from national writers, as well as local writers from around the country calling the Spurs a very dirty team, and outraged over Stern's actions.

[813Jag]

It doesn't hurt me at all - I have no rooting interest in this series whatsoever. But if you really think the Spurs have taken whining to an all new level then I have to question how long you've watched basketball - the Pistons of the late 80's (Laimbeer, Rodman, Isiah) whined non-stop - heck, Laimbeer even made the cover of SI just for whining. The Knicks of the Riley-era were notorious for cheap shots and trash talking. Heck, MJ may be the best player of all time but he lobbied for calls as soon as he stepped on the court - it's what happens in basketball.

Watch the Eastern Conference finals if you want to see a whiner. Rasheed Wallace argues every call, even the ones that are for him.

[813Jag]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!! I never said ANYTHING about a conspiracy! Don't go puttin' words in my mouth. I just said the schedule of games is a disservice to the Suns' biggest advantage....and that is the ability to run teams into the ground. I realize that it's been around for years, but I think THAT, more than anything else, is a big factor in why the Suns' "style" of baskeball doesn't work so well (at least historically) in the playoffs. That's all, nothing more, nothing less...

Easy there, big fella.... xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex
I think the main reason why a fast pace style of ball isn't successful in the playoffs is that the game becomes more half court oriented. When you play a team 4 or more times in a row it turns into a grind. I think this year's playoff schedule has been the best in quite a long time. No more 3 or 4 day breaks in between games.

[AZGrizFan]

It doesn't hurt me at all - I have no rooting interest in this series whatsoever. But if you really think the Spurs have taken whining to an all new level then I have to question how long you've watched basketball - the Pistons of the late 80's (Laimbeer, Rodman, Isiah) whined non-stop - heck, Laimbeer even made the cover of SI just for whining. The Knicks of the Riley-era were notorious for cheap shots and trash talking. Heck, MJ may be the best player of all time but he lobbied for calls as soon as he stepped on the court - it's what happens in basketball.

And everything you've said doesn't make it right....except you have explained beautifully why the sport is dying in popularity. xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

[SU Jag]

And everything you've said doesn't make it right....except you have explained beautifully why the sport is dying in popularity. xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

According to who?

[bobcatfan06]

According to who?

Ummm...have you not seen the ratings for the Finals/Playoffs/Regular Season in the past few years? They are atrocious. xrulesx The NBA is a fraud.

[813Jag]

According to who?

It's dying to the people who buy the tickets. I don't know many people personally who think the NBA is dying. Is it worse than the late 80's - early 90's? Yes. But dying? No xnonono2x

[SU Jag]

It's dying to the people who buy the tickets. I don't know many people personally who think the NBA is dying. Is it worse than the late 80's - early 90's? Yes. But dying? No xnonono2x

Yeah, the biggest fans cant afford the tickets. In the barbershop that all we talk about this time of year.

[PantherRob82]

Don't bash the rules enforcer --blame the rules breakers. xrulesx

They KNOW that if they leave the bench during an altercation, they'll be suspended. xnonox

They STILL left the bench. xnonox xoopsx

They (and the fans ) WHINE about the rule being enforced. xbawlingx

stupid rule.

[Longhorn]

Everyone knows Nash can't play defense. So to see Parker drive by him is no big surprise. And the war in Iraq is a tragedy. A poke in the eye is not---and doesn't hurt nearly as bad as a knee to the balls. Trust me, I've had both. xnodx xnodx xnodx

And your "analysis" of the series to date is funny. If Nash isn't hurt in game one, the Suns very likely win that game, and if they're playing at full strength in game 5 they win that game too. Not to shabby for a team that finds "it difficult to adapt to a more physical game". Dbackjon is right---this series should be over. And I'll stand by my prediction that the Suns win tonight and Sunday---and will have the last laugh. xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

Tragedies come in many sizes, big and small. Less than half an inch higher and that "eye poke" you dismiss blinds a player and very possibly ends a career. And now you share that Nash can't play defense, but earlier he's MVP material? xconfusedx Honestly, your objectivity leaves a little to be desired.

That said, regarding the outcome of game one and the last game...well, if pigs had wings as they say...yet if the Suns can win tonight and then again in game 7 they'll deserve all the kudos that comes their way. I'm already on record predicting this would be a 5-6 game series with the Spurs coming out on top. I guess we'll find out soon enough. xthumbsupx

[Mountaineer]

Yeah, the biggest fans cant afford the tickets. In the barbershop that all we talk about this time of year.

Ain't that the truth. xnodx It's getting to be that way for all major sports though.

Year and a half ago year I took my mom, girlfriend, and sister to a Bobcats game and it was nearly (or over) 200 dollars - and we were sitting in the nosebleeds near the top of the damn arena. xnonono2x

[PantherRob82]

Well, Suns are done. Makes this an even bigger deal for the series to end in 6 on the Spurs home court.

[Longhorn]

Great game! Amare was almost good enough to carry the entire Suns team on his back. But in the end, the better defensive team won. It'll be interesting how the Suns comes back from this series...but that's a concern for next year. Looking forward to seeing a Pistons/Spurs final!

[NDSUFREAK]

well, i guess it was a good series. all the SUNS need to do is look after KG this summer to try and maybe get him as a veteren leader.

[I Bleed Purple]

It'll take more than Atlanta's pick.

I see Minnesota demanding nothing less than Stoudemire.

[seantaylor]

Great game! Amare was almost good enough to carry the entire Suns team on his back. But in the end, the better defensive team won. It'll be interesting how the Suns comes back from this series...but that's a concern for next year. Looking forward to seeing a Pistons/Spurs final!

Disagree with the Amare thing. He was dominated by Duncan. He shot about 30 shots and hit about 40%. Nash was dominate, he should have shot the ball more.

[Grizalltheway]

And everything you've said doesn't make it right....except you have explained beautifully why the sport is dying in popularity. xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

From what I hear, the NBA is actually gaining in popularity. I could be wrong, but that's what I hear.

[seantaylor]

Stern is a punk that has been compromised.

[813Jag]

From what I hear, the NBA is actually gaining in popularity. I could be wrong, but that's what I hear.
What some people don't realize is that while it may seem like the NBA is losing popularity in the US. It's gaining popularity around the world, with the influx of Foriegn players.

[Longhorn]

Disagree with the Amare thing. He was dominated by Duncan. He shot about 30 shots and hit about 40%. Nash was dominate, he should have shot the ball more.


Nash "dominant"? Hardly. He was a nonfactor in game 6, that is, until it was too late to make a difference. Duncan was terrific, and he did overpower the Suns down low in game 6, but I wouldn't say Duncan dominated Amare. Amare came to play, and kept the Suns in it until the middle of the 3rd. Shooting percentages be damned, had Amare gotten some support from Nash, Barbosa, Marion and others when it mattered the results might have gone the other way, and we'd be looking forward to a game 7 right now.

Amare is only 24, and he's very close to taking that next step. Perhaps the experience of this series will allow him to mature and get to that next championship level. And for what my two cents are worth, I would never trade him for KG. Trading a young lion for an older lion (if that's what it would take to land KG) would be a mistake IMO.

I know it's hard asking Suns fans to be patient as you've been patient and loyal, and the present team (which is so fun to watch) seems frustratingly close to winning that elusive championship. But trading Amare for KG reminds me of the Spurs option about 3-4 years ago when it was rumored they were flirting with the idea of swapping Parker for Jason Kidd. Kidd was at his peak then...a player on everyone's list of NBA "superstars" ...and while Kidd is still good today, Parker's upside was higher. Today, Parker is the better player. And at a young 25 (his birthday was yesterday) his best days are ahead of him. Kidd on the other hand is rapidly approaching retirement. KG is younger than Kidd of course, but KG is the same age as Duncan...and while KG is at the apex of his career for the moment as is Duncan, Amare has the higher "up side" ala the young Parker vs. Kidd. Do the Suns panic and make that risky decision to give up on Amare, believing KG is that magic bullet that will get the Suns past the Spurs and/or Dallas? Maybe. But I wouldn't make that trade. Besides, KG really hasn't proven he can beat the Spurs or Mavs either. xsmiley_wix

Now, if the Suns can somehow acquire KG without giving up Amare or Nash, then that would be a great move. With KG, Amare and Nash in the same lineup the Suns would finally be that three-headed beast that define so many of the championship caliber teams. Then again, every GM in the league wants to sign KG for nothing. xlolx

[NDSUFREAK]

It'll take more than Atlanta's pick.

I see Minnesota demanding nothing less than Stoudemire.

Exactly. Trade STAT for KG. Minnesota has a young team and they need a young star to try and lead them. He has the experience to play in the playoffs.
But can you imagine a starting lineup like this??? Nash, Marion, Bell, KG, Barbosa?? Plus if you are able to keep the pick and just trade STAT then get a great bench players like Horford or someone. Even with trading the pick as well you could easily maybe pick up Noah off the bench.

[813Jag]

I'd keep Stoudemire over KG. The kid is young and when his defense improves, he'll be really tough. Phoenix doesn't need new players they need a tougher mindset and more attention to defense in the post season. IMO, Garnett (wether his fault or not has not had much postseason success) would not add that much more and you'd end up lacking a true low post player. Besides if Stoudemire is as important to the Suns as people were saying before game 5 why trade him? xconfusedx

[seantaylor]

Nash "dominant"? Hardly. He was a nonfactor in game 6, that is, until it was too late to make a difference. Duncan was terrific, and he did overpower the Suns down low in game 6, but I wouldn't say Duncan dominated Amare. Amare came to play, and kept the Suns in it until the middle of the 3rd. Shooting percentages be damned, had Amare gotten some support from Nash, Barbosa, Marion and others when it mattered the results might have gone the other way, and we'd be looking forward to a game 7 right now.

Amare is only 24, and he's very close to taking that next step. Perhaps the experience of this series will allow him to mature and get to that next championship level. And for what my two cents are worth, I would never trade him for KG. Trading a young lion for an older lion (if that's what it would take to land KG) would be a mistake IMO.

I know it's hard asking Suns fans to be patient as you've been patient and loyal, and the present team (which is so fun to watch) seems frustratingly close to winning that elusive championship. But trading Amare for KG reminds me of the Spurs option about 3-4 years ago when it was rumored they were flirting with the idea of swapping Parker for Jason Kidd. Kidd was at his peak then...a player on everyone's list of NBA "superstars" ...and while Kidd is still good today, Parker's upside was higher. Today, Parker is the better player. And at a young 25 (his birthday was yesterday) his best days are ahead of him. Kidd on the other hand is rapidly approaching retirement. KG is younger than Kidd of course, but KG is the same age as Duncan...and while KG is at the apex of his career for the moment as is Duncan, Amare has the higher "up side" ala the young Parker vs. Kidd. Do the Suns panic and make that risky decision to give up on Amare, believing KG is that magic bullet that will get the Suns past the Spurs and/or Dallas? Maybe. But I wouldn't make that trade. Besides, KG really hasn't proven he can beat the Spurs or Mavs either. xsmiley_wix

Now, if the Suns can somehow acquire KG without giving up Amare or Nash, then that would be a great move. With KG, Amare and Nash in the same lineup the Suns would finally be that three-headed beast that define so many of the championship caliber teams. Then again, every GM in the league wants to sign KG for nothing. xlolx

A non factor with 14 assists? That is hard to do.

[AZGrizFan]

Nash "dominant"? Hardly. He was a nonfactor in game 6, that is, until it was too late to make a difference. Duncan was terrific, and he did overpower the Suns down low in game 6, but I wouldn't say Duncan dominated Amare. Amare came to play, and kept the Suns in it until the middle of the 3rd. Shooting percentages be damned, had Amare gotten some support from Nash, Barbosa, Marion and others when it mattered the results might have gone the other way, and we'd be looking forward to a game 7 right now.

Amare is only 24, and he's very close to taking that next step. Perhaps the experience of this series will allow him to mature and get to that next championship level. And for what my two cents are worth, I would never trade him for KG. Trading a young lion for an older lion (if that's what it would take to land KG) would be a mistake IMO.

I know it's hard asking Suns fans to be patient as you've been patient and loyal, and the present team (which is so fun to watch) seems frustratingly close to winning that elusive championship. But trading Amare for KG reminds me of the Spurs option about 3-4 years ago when it was rumored they were flirting with the idea of swapping Parker for Jason Kidd. Kidd was at his peak then...a player on everyone's list of NBA "superstars" ...and while Kidd is still good today, Parker's upside was higher. Today, Parker is the better player. And at a young 25 (his birthday was yesterday) his best days are ahead of him. Kidd on the other hand is rapidly approaching retirement. KG is younger than Kidd of course, but KG is the same age as Duncan...and while KG is at the apex of his career for the moment as is Duncan, Amare has the higher "up side" ala the young Parker vs. Kidd. Do the Suns panic and make that risky decision to give up on Amare, believing KG is that magic bullet that will get the Suns past the Spurs and/or Dallas? Maybe. But I wouldn't make that trade. Besides, KG really hasn't proven he can beat the Spurs or Mavs either. xsmiley_wix

Now, if the Suns can somehow acquire KG without giving up Amare or Nash, then that would be a great move. With KG, Amare and Nash in the same lineup the Suns would finally be that three-headed beast that define so many of the championship caliber teams. Then again, every GM in the league wants to sign KG for nothing. xlolx


I was wrong. The Spurts flat outplayed the Suns last night.

But if the Suns trade Amare for KG, I'm DONE. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[NDSUFREAK]

I was wrong. The Spurts flat outplayed the Suns last night.

But if the Suns trade Amare for KG, I'm DONE. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

I just believe that with how much I have seen KG play and with the intensity he brings he could possibly do a better job of leading a team against the spurs or mavs. i'm just sayin. keep STAT and get a good pick in june will be good as well. Nash is getting older and he definitely deserves a ring with how he elevates teams to their highest potentials. The SUNS just need to play DEFENSE.

[Longhorn]

A non factor with 14 assists? That is hard to do.

For the Suns to win Nash has to do more than just rack up the assists...Nash must also score, early and often, if he's to really make a winning difference. It's Nash's almost unrivaled ability to do both...score and still get his teammates involved...that makes him an MVP quality player. When Nash becomes one dimensional and forgets to score, or has his ability to score limited as the Spurs were able to do, the Suns struggle.

[Eyes of Old Main]

I think the Suns (and the Mavs for that matter) shouldn't panic. Both have great teams and while they are getting older, they aren't as old as San Antonio. In both their cases I would wait anohter year or two before looking to make a big change.

[I Bleed Purple]

I think the Suns (and the Mavs for that matter) shouldn't panic. Both have great teams and while they are getting older, they aren't as old as San Antonio. In both their cases I would wait anohter year or two before looking to make a big change.
Suns window is now. Mavs are still young and can upgrade a little easier than the Suns. Jazz are up and coming. Houston will have a coach that knows what an NBA offense is. After next year, they're done in my opinion.

[813Jag]

They need to add depth to their team. Not get rid of major pieces. Although I heard (with ESPN who knows xconfusedx) they would be interested in shopping Marion. That's better than shopping Stoudamire. Dallas' problems in the postseason start and end with Dirk and their lack of a low post presence. See Boozer, Carlos to understand what a low post presence does to the Golden State Warriors. xlolx xlolx

[AZGrizFan]

They need to add depth to their team. Not get rid of major pieces. Although I heard (with ESPN who knows xconfusedx) they would be interested in shopping Marion. That's better than shopping Stoudamire. Dallas' problems in the postseason start and end with Dirk and their lack of a low post presence. See Boozer, Carlos to understand what a low post presence does to the Golden State Warriors. xlolx xlolx

Every year---and I mean EVERY year---after the Suns are knocked out, it's about 48 hours before the "trading Marion" rumors start. Yet he's still a Sun. Yeah, they need depth, but getting rid of one of the big three isn't the answer. Marion is all over the floor, and a comparable defender to Bell. He can guard 1-5 (and did, at various times in the playoffs), and his slashing quickness and hops make him valuable in all other areas of the game.

The Suns better do something quick, however, 'cuz Nash ain't gettin' any younger, and without him leading this team, they'll be just another Clippers team. xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

[813Jag]

Every year---and I mean EVERY year---after the Suns are knocked out, it's about 48 hours before the "trading Marion" rumors start. Yet he's still a Sun. Yeah, they need depth, but getting rid of one of the big three isn't the answer. Marion is all over the floor, and a comparable defender to Bell. He can guard 1-5 (and did, at various times in the playoffs), and his slashing quickness and hops make him valuable in all other areas of the game.

The Suns better do something quick, however, 'cuz Nash ain't gettin' any younger, and without him leading this team, they'll be just another Clippers team. xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx
I agree that they shouldn't get rid of the big 3. Don't they have two first round picks? Use them to get some quality depth. They have the star power.

[Peems]

go Jazz! I only imagine how lebron kicks himself over and over for not having boozer on his team. I'm pulling for pistons/jazz. I hate Lebron and my pa's favorite team be the jazz.

[NDSUFREAK]

go Jazz! I only imagine how lebron kicks himself over and over for not having boozer on his team. I'm pulling for pistons/jazz. I hate Lebron and my pa's favorite team be the jazz.

xconfusedx a little off topic but that is alright. xsmiley_wix xpeacex